EP 339: A New Mexico Oryx Double, Sheep Camp 2025, and Updates to the Epic Hunt Research Tools

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson, Logan Marshall. How y'all doing today? Logan, how you doing? I'm doing great. All right. Are you lying? No, I'm not even lying. Yeah, Gen Z's lie. John, how are you doing? I'm doing good. I love the amped up intro. Yeah, John and I, Adam, we're doing good. Me and the fun. It's Wyoming elk deadline. Bronson, how many guys have we talked to today? Too many to count. Yeah, lots. So next Wednesday is a holiday. Here at Epic Outdoors. Cinco de Febrero.

Yeah, Arizona antelope and elk applications will be done. There'll be no more talking about it. I like it when a state finishes and there's no option to go back in. Change. There's no. Okay. So I kind of like. I think about Wyoming. You got three months to plug and play. Plug and play and then do points in the summer. Everybody has to do points in the summer. You have to touch that application twice. Brutal. At minimum. But whatever. Yeah. Hey, whatever. That's what we do here at Epic Outdoors. Lots going on over on this side of the office. Logan, John, you're packing. Yeah. You got crates and TVs and got. And sawdust. And sawdust. You've got garbage. Building. Tools. You got. Yep. Stuff going on for the expo, huh? We had to clean up just so you guys could walk over here. Trust me. We know. Adam and I do an inventory every now. Need a hard hat and a vest. Yeah.

Or a yellow vest to walk on this side. It's true. Yeah. But hey. Speaking of. Looking to have an accident. Two weeks away roughly. I don't know what it is. If you want to see what we've been doing, come by our booth at the expo. It's going to be epic. It's pretty cool. All right. A little play on words, John. You love to do that kind of stuff. All right. All right. So let's see. We want to call Kurt today. He's got a little something. Something he wants to share about the sheep part of the expo. And, of course, Kurt is an instrumental part here at Epic Outdoors. Deals with a lot of our behind-the-scenes stuff that we don't talk a ton about. But anyway, you think he's ready for a call, John? Yep. He's ready. We'll talk all things expo and sheep camp. All right.

Hello. Hey. What you doing? Hey, I'm going on my couch. Cruising down the highway? You been ice fishing? What are you doing? I've been ice fishing once, and now I'm headed to a doctor's appointment. Oh. Unfortunately. You must be 50 or older. Not yet, probably. Not quite. You're young. You're actually young, aren't you? I know. Yeah, sure. That's what I'm going to go with. Younger than us. Younger than us, yeah. Kurt, why don't we talk about you and act like I'm 12, right? We want to talk about a few things. Maybe, of course, we can talk about sheep camp. Talk a little bit about that. Yeah. And then maybe even get into a little bit more about some of the things you've been working on here at Epic.

Let's start off with sheep camp. Why don't you crank it out a little bit? What can we look forward to? What are we unveiling? Is there something new going on? It feels like there's a little behind-the-scenes energy? Something? What do we look forward to? I don't know that it's a big change, but there is a little bit. Sheep camp, not as far as the sheep camp event itself, but in years past, sheep camp has kind of been a part of SFW, with SFW being the conservation organization here in the state of Utah. Well, they have partnered up with the Utah Wild Sheep, where now it is an event that will be put on kind of jointly by both organizations, kind of like the Hunt Expo is put on by the Mule Deer Foundation and SFW. Sheep camp, moving forward, will be kind of under both of the umbrella, which will allow basically the funds that we raise from sheep camp to kind of go back to both organizations.

So it literally will be a joint kind of, I don't know what you want to call it, a partnership. And so they'll put on sheep camp together. So, which is, I mean, the whole goal of sheep camp has always been, let's let the conservation organizations put sheep on the mountain. And then you guys put sheep hunters in the field. Hunters on. Exactly. But at the same time, they do go hand in hand. And there's been times in the past where, you know, maybe we've focused a little too much on the sheep hunter. And now this will allow us to kind of align with, you know, just kind of all the things going on in Utah related to sheep, as well as anything that SFW is working on. So, and like in the past, I mean, sheep camp's entire mission has been to have an opportunity for the average Joe to go on a sheep hunt, which I don't know if you guys have feels like

that's even, I mean, this is 14, 15 years now, but I mean, the price of sheep hunts right now, I mean, it's even, that cause is even a little more attractive now when you're paying, you know, I mean, so much for these sheep hunts. So anyway. Yeah. Well, pretty awesome. So at the end of the day, you're still giving away a ton of sheep hunts, right? Yeah. At the Hunt Expo. Yep. Yeah. We're currently planning on 10. And like in years past, you can win any of the four species. Um, and one thing to remember is we, we still have our hunts where you have to be there to win six of those hunts. You must be present, but four of them you do not. Um, so, you know, if you're like, well, Hey, I really like what you guys are doing. I, of course I want another sheep hunt. You could go out to sheepcamp.net and there's still all four species that you could purchase tickets and not have to be there.

Um, one fun thing we've added this year for those that are going to be there is we have two hunts this year, um, that you can pick your own hunt. So we're finding that more and more of our sheep camp attendees are like, well, you know, I really need a desert or I'd really love to go on a stone sheep hunt. So this year there's two hunts where you can pick. So if you win, if you win, we pull your name out. You tell us what you want to go on. You want to go on a Rocky hunt? Well, then we'll go find you a Rocky. How about, you'd rather go on a desert? How about a Gobi Argali? Yeah. How about that? A Gobi or a high alti Argali? Is that, is that included under this? I mean, about 150 G's or something like that, or does it have to be North American? I'm going to read the fine print here before I buy my tickets. Cause if it's not on there, I'm just going to pick a sheep. Yeah. There you go. Yeah.

Well, good. And so what's the major, so, so, so to the attendees, the, the conservation, the conservation aspect's awesome. But to the, the attendees, what's different than last year? Not a whole lot, really. I mean, that's why I mentioned it a minute ago. The overall experience for the attendee really hasn't changed. Unfortunately, we had to trim down a couple of sheep hunts this year because just the cost is just going through the roof. But one thing that people often think about sheep camp is, oh, these are donated hunts. No, we pay full price. Just like if you went and booked them. Yeah. I mean, we pay full a hundred percent, same price as if you were to book them on your own. They're fully paid for. I mean, granted the hunter has to get there and we always, you know, they have to pay their own tip, but yeah. So once you win the hunt, the transaction's over with sheep camp.

We, we hand you off to the outfitter. Like you just purchased that hunt for full price. And so they've, they've gone up in price. So we've had to reduce a couple, but each year, if you've ever attended our event, you know that, Hey, if things are going pretty well, we literally try to put every dollar right back into the event and to buy more sheep hunts. So there's been a couple of years where, you know what, we were, we were doing pretty well and sold a few extra tickets. So we gave away a couple extra sheep hunts on the fly and we will continue to do that if we can. So, but as it sits right now, there'll be 10 hunts. Again, there'll be, I mean, there'll be a chance for at least three. I mean, if you needed any of the four, let's just say that isn't the rules, Adam. So you know, it is four North American sheep. Yeah, exactly.

You're going to have that opportunity to win any of the four, at least three times. So with dolls, a couple extras. Anyway, that's great. Well, I'm looking, we're looking right here at a list of them. It looks like maybe hunts three and four are missing for a minute. You're probably still deciding what those are going to be. I don't know. It just says two through four up there. Or two through four. Okay. Yeah. If you look down below, then the detail, there'll be a doll, another doll, and then it should be a pick your species. A pick your species. Okay. All right. Yeah. Now keep in mind too. That's another key part about sheep camp is, you know, we've tried to make it fair for everybody. So those, those hunts two through four are the limited hunts where no matter what the same, every single person in that room could have only purchased five tickets.

And so the odds are exactly the same for everybody, for those hunts only. One of them is you've never killed a sheep. Another one is anybody. And then the other one's to pick your own. And again, that, so everybody that way, you know, again, it goes back to that mission of keeping it for the average Joe Hunter, you know, whether that's the only ticket you buy for the entire event or, or not. I mean, you've got the same amount of odds as anybody in that room. You can't go and purchase $10,000 with the tickets and increase your odds. So we have plenty other hunts for that, but those, those three hunts are restricted to that. And then the very first time, um, you'll have to kind of show up to see what we're going to do with that, but there'll be four hunts just by walking in the door and getting that hundred dollar package.

Um, you're going to have the same odds as everybody else for four sheep hunts. So, yeah. And those are capped, right? I can't remember if it's like 1750 due to fire restrictions. You're those, when those are gone, they're gone. You can't, you can't let anybody more in or more people in if you want to. Yeah, exactly. We're about half sold right now. The last two years in a row, since the salt palace made us go to this restriction, um, we've sold out the day before. So if you're, if you're kind of on the fence or you're like, Oh, I haven't bought my tickets yet. Just go at least get your entry into the building. That way that's good. And you can always buy more tickets when you get there. But if you're thinking about coming, go get your tickets and get that over. Cause we will sell out. We have the last couple of years and yeah, it's 1750. And once we reach that, we're done.

So keep that in mind too. That's, that tells you what your odds are immediately. I mean, you've got a one and well, keep in mind, everybody only has five tickets. And if somebody puts them all in one worst case scenario, you've got that one and 1750 chances. And you got the one on their tickets that can be sold. So, and you got the one that you can't ever kill the sheep. So that limits it dramatically right there too. So exactly. Yeah. It's fun to watch. You've never killed a sheep. Crazy. Yeah. It's fun. It's fun to watch people and stuff. I mean, it's just awesome. So, yeah. So this is Saturday, February 15th. That's when it'll take place. And then you also talk about memberships and different things that are also, you know, right on sheep camp.net. Right. And then there's a fax button. You can click on that, learn a little bit more about it.

But basically, these are just, this is just a raffle type opportunity to be able to go on 10 different sheep. So anyway, where else can you do that? It's, I mean, of course, you know, some of these different, you know, conservation events and things like that, but they're, they're limited in number on, on places you can go and watch guys watch 10 different people or whatever. When hunts like this, it's pretty crazy. Yeah. I will highlight one change. We changed the, the ticket to get in to only $50 this year and years past, it's actually been a hundred. And the reason we did that is we have a lot of people who are like, Hey, I want to bring my wife and kids. Well, if you think about that, what we just mentioned, we can only put 1,750 people in the room. So, you know, by just letting people come in free, we ultimately lose out on, yeah, exactly.

Which ultimately affects the people in the room. Like I said, we try to take every dollar and turn it back into a sheep hunt. Well, if there's 50 to a hundred people that didn't have to pay. So what we did this year is we revisited that. And so, and then people are always like, well, Hey, my wife doesn't honor. How can my three-year-old son win? Well, we're going to have an alternate prize for the wife and the kids. If they'd rather go to Disney world for four with, for four people for a week, we'll let them do that. And versus going on a sheep hunt. So there's still plenty of things for the kids. We'll have some kid only drawings as well, or some raffles. So, so if you're sitting there thinking, well, gosh, I got to go spend 50 bucks to get my wife and kids there. Keep in mind, they're going to be eligible for that Disney world trip. Yeah.

I mean, if the husband wins and he wants to go on a sheep hunt, great. But if you'd rather go to Disney, then that's fine too. So, but there, there is some opportunity. We get that asked every year. Like, why do I have to pay for my kids? Well, that's why it really is for everybody. It takes a head count off the 1750. Yeah, exactly. But we did lower it. We took that into it. Don't get me wrong. We would, we would rather kids come for free. We don't want to charge. We hate doing it, but it's because of the fire restrictions and the only putting so many people in there. Yeah. I would also highlight too, the event starts at 11, runs from 11 to one. We will be done by one. And for the hunts that you have to be present to win, you do need to be in the grand ballroom. Can't just be at the expo somewhere. You have to be inside the doors. And, but we do open the doors at 9 a.m.

And you guys have been there. It's just pure chaos. And it's one of the most exciting events of the entire expo. And I would recommend people are there at nine, nine 30, get in there, get your seat saved, sit down, you know, then maybe go do some other stuff. But if you don't, you might end up just standing around, which is fine too, but it's, it's quite the, the event. It's definitely not something you just roll in at 11 o'clock and, and think that, oh, you know what? This is going to be easy. And I get there early and plan on it. Especially if you didn't get your tickets already from the convention hall a day or two prior. You want to put them in the bin, but I usually try to do that because it's a, it's a bit, it's busy there. You're going to wait in line. If you wait to put all your tickets in on Saturday, which is fine, you got time to do it.

But if you get there Thursday, go by the full sheep camp booth, I should say, and get your tickets. You're, you're limited and any others you're going to buy, throw them in. And if you do buy more that Saturday, throw them in then, but just kind of helps you. You're a little less stressed Saturday walking in there and like, oh cow, there's a lot of people in line waiting to put tickets in. Exactly. Getting their tickets. So that's my tip of the week. Ah, I like it. So, I like it. How many of these hunts are just exclusively for me and Adam and Jason can't. What do you mean? Put in for that. You've never killed a sheep. There's three, right? What do you mean? Just one. There's only one. There's, there's one hunt for never killed a sheep. Yeah. And one. John always wants it catered to him. A little bit selfish sometimes. You know, when it comes to hunting.

I don't want my daughter applying where I apply. Is there one where you're, you're, you're a kid that's want to sheep hunt, but you want that waved so that you can just be in. I mean, John's a little better on some of this stuff. I mean.

If anybody has kids, he, they understand. No, she punts for kids. I understand. I understand where you're coming from, John. Spoilt little chizzes. Spoilt little rat. All right. And I'm going to be hearing from my daughter. It's all good. Well, this is good stuff, Kurt. This is awesome. I know you've been instrumental in this from the beginning and it's just awesome. It's, it's a lot of fun. Well, there's, it's electric in that room and it's also pretty stuffy. There's like 1,750 people in a room that's probably really rated for 500. I don't know. Yeah. It's a big place. Hey, we just do what they tell us. But it fills up pretty fast. They tell us 1,750. It's awesome. It does. Yeah. No, it's good. And keep in mind too, with us partnering now with Utah Wild Sheep, they'll have some, there'll actually be an 11th hunt there. So they'll be selling tickets for their desert.

Oh, they got a desert. How they sell out? Yeah. I've been told. Yeah. And their tickets are even better odds. I think they're only selling 700 tickets or 750. So that's another thing. I think they're halfway sold. If you're interested in a desert, check out Utah Wild Sheep. Go to their website and just get, I mean, if it's something that you're thinking about, but I'd go get the ticket now because you can go buy those right now. And there's only a limited number. Once they sell out, they're done. But they'll be there as well. They got a booth there at the Expo too. You can stop by before Saturday. They'll be right next to us, right next door. Did they move down there? Or have they always been right next to you? No, they're literally right next to us. So we're in booth 2044, which is along that back wall. We've been there for 10 years now. Back wall's the best place to be.

If you're looking for us, yeah, there's, yeah, exactly. We're right down the street from you guys. And then right next to us literally is Utah Wild Sheep. And they'll be, they'll have some raffles going on as well. So, but yeah, again, so we'll, technically we'll have 11 sheep hunts there, but the one won't be drawn there. Well, maybe it will. Maybe if they sell out, maybe they'll draw out there. Sell out, then do it. But yeah, Jason, why don't you just go buy out the remaining ones and get a cheaper priced desert hunt? Just buy with whatever's left. Just buy the remaining tickets. I don't need a desert. You know your odds. I don't need a desert. Yeah, you might need them for your second slam. I need a true blue freaking Rocky. That's what I need. True blue. I need a true blue Rocky. You need my points in Utah then. Yeah. I've got, yeah, I'm ready to draw. Yeah. In fact. Are you really?

Jason and I were talking about this the other day. Life's too short to wait for tags. I'm ready to. Are you? I'm ready to draw a tag and hire Adam. Do you wait for one of the janky callies or do you hold out for, you know? And the only reason I call them janky is because I'm wanting a Rocky. Because you have one. I want a real Rocky. I just want a Rocky. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I have 22 points for Rockies. You're residents. Do this. Growing up in Wyoming, we thought Rockies were the only thing that were cool. Then I moved to Utah and there's this stupid desert thing they kept talking about. I'm like, oh, there's sheep in the desert? I didn't know that. What are they doing down there? Yeah, exactly.

All right. Better. So all I have is Rocky points. But yeah, Adam, we need to talk. I'm ready to draw. Let's bring it on. Let's do it. This year. Yeah. That's what thing. Even if it's dry, we talk about this a lot. We hunt. Sheep, goats, stags, and what else? Stags, sheep, goats, and anything else. Anything with horns. Doesn't matter. That's right. That's right. Exactly. Doesn't grow an annual antler protrusion. Even moose, whatever. Take them when you can get it. So this is the year. You know? Sometimes they're better. Oryx. Yeah, oryx. Ibex. Barbary. Anything weird that you want to throw down? Do something like that on a drought year. Bears and lions and cows. Lots of coyotes. Yeah, that's right. Lots of coyotes. All right. All I hear is you're talking about a lot of spikes. Yeah. Generally. I mean, if we don't get some rain in Southern Utah, I'm telling you, there's a lot of truth

to what we just said. Springtime. All sheep is. It's just a big spike. Yeah. It's really all it is. Well, but there's entire events. I don't know if you're aware of this, Kurt, but there's entire events around getting spike tags. Yes, exactly. I just got back from New Mexico. And my daughter's only criteria is that she wanted an unbroken, normal, call it normal-looking orcs. You know, we kind of trophy hunted the first half of the day. We probably shouldn't have. Just looking for something. Well, and it was really the second day because you couldn't hunt the first day. First day got wiped out. We couldn't even hunt. So, anyway, but the end of that day, we drove up on this little knob and this bull flushes 100 yards from us. It runs out there and stops and stares. Had one perfectly normal horn. The other one wasn't broke. It went up and curled like a sheep, 100%. I almost shot it.

Yeah, why wouldn't you? I almost did. And she's like, they're like, Hallie, it just stood there. Dumb. And I'm like, Hallie, what do you think? It's kind of cool. No, Dad. I want a normal-looking. And then I honestly thought, that's kind of cool. It literally curled in a circle and came forward. And the other one was straight up. I get it, though. I see what she's talking about. Yeah. And then I'm thinking, yeah, I kind of want a normal-looking. And it was half-tamed because it's been passed by 50 other people. It had never been shot at. It stood there for five minutes. It might as well have been broken. 150 yards. Might as well have been broken. Yeah, it was. Anyway, so. Yeah. It was wild. It was cool. Was that in Wyoming? No. No, New Mexico. Do they got orcs in Wyoming? They probably do. They probably do. They're smarter. They're smarter in Wyoming. Yeah. Yeah.

Kurt, what's your Wyoming prediction on elk? Is it going to be a decent elk, deer, antelope? I mean, what's your prediction up there? Yeah. I think elk is going to be fine. The elk herds in Wyoming are amazing. I mean, elk will eat anything, right? So they did just fine. I mean, we focus on the western side of the state. But the elk herds have been really, I mean, gosh, they're overrun in a lot of places. Yeah. And we all know with antelope, antelope just really depends on how much water we get, right? Like, I mean, so the antelope numbers have already rebounded, but it could be a tough year if we don't get water. But one thing we found last year with the deer was we didn't see a lot of deer, but the ones we saw were absolutely giants. Like they were. Really? They were just like no brainer giants. Tell me more. Tell me more. Tell me more. Yeah. It comes from a lot of people saying that.

It was really an interesting year for us. I mean, like I went with my dad and my son and we saw three deer and we shot two of them and they were mature four points. One was a six by four. I mean, but right when the hunt ended, we saw a couple of deer. Yeah. Wyoming. I'm just telling you. It's Wyoming. Western Wyoming. Yeah. Western Wyoming. Thank you. We saw a couple of deer, right? During the elk hunt when the deer hunt was closed that were like jaw dropper, no brainers. Really? Like, where's this? Oh, yeah. Right out in the desert. Right out in the state. Okay. We're narrowing it down. Did you hear that, Jason? Yeah. Yeah. Not in my country. And they're not migratory, right? They're living out in the desert. I'll bet we could pinpoint it. Just send over a couple of photos. Yeah. You guys driving around in the truck or just having a gay old time. Exactly.

It's not like there's a, you know, if I send you a picture with some sagebrush, that'll narrow it down to basically about half of Wyoming. It does. It cuts it in half. There's 50. 50 you've got your locations on. So just start sending a few pictures. Yeah. I don't believe what you just said. I need proof.

Yeah. Nobody should be applying. But it made me rethink because I've got a lot of deer points and I keep thinking I'll wait for the... There is something to that. Bronson and I have talked a lot about it. Like there's something to when these populations crash that the animals that are left on the landscape, even though there was not a lack of vegetation prior, for some reason they do incredible. Yeah. It's just less... There's less competition for the cream of the crop feed, the ice cream plants that they're called a lot of times. You know, the stuff that's super desirable. Yeah. There's fewer deer. There's... You know, it kind of happens with sheep too. When you do a sheep transplant, many times throughout the West, the first three to five years after they open, they kill the biggest rams they ever do on that unit.

And then as it saturates and they just cover the whole landscape, there's just a little bit less resource to go around. And a little... Some of that type of principle. They're in good... If they survived, they're obviously strong. And last winter was mild. This one so far is pretty mild up there. And so, you know, what we're seeing on the wind range pictures looks awesome. And I mean, there's no indication that this is going to turn out to be a terrible winter from here on out. So if it doesn't, I mean, it might be a repeat. But there's a lot of guys that want to see deer. And so you are dealing with population issues. Yeah. You got to know that going in. Yeah. If you need to see a lot of deer to keep going or all that. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to see a lot of deer and pick through them and just be like, hey, today was great. We saw 20 deer.

Then you're not going to find that in Wyoming, at least in Western Wyoming right now. But what we found last year is if you see a deer and it has horns, you better be checking it out because they were, they grew this last year. It was one of our best years ever. How did you feel about killing the majority of the bucks you even saw? You killed 67% of the bucks. I mean, are you, are you considering yourself a conservationist? Yeah. Well, let's say we only saw three deer that we're even thinking about. We still saw a few other deer. We hardly saw any. I mean, we went to some canyons where we would see normally 20, 30 deer. Yeah. We glassed up, didn't see anything. You know, we were just like, man, this is weird. But when we did see a deer. They were good. And that's just it too. They were healthy, strong. And like Adam said, right, those deer survived the winters.

I mean, the winter we had a few years ago was so bad that it takes the strong, mature deer to survive. To survive. Yeah. And they look great. I mean, like you said, it makes me think about putting in this year. And I hadn't, I mean, I put in for elk and I'm going to wait and see what happens there. But if I draw elk, I may be putting in for deer as well. You're non-resident, even though you're from there, you're still non-resident. Do you, I might need a point booster. Kurt. Yeah. Well, I have it for deer, but I. Kurt. I have it for deer, but I don't have it for elk. Kurt, let me just, let me just give you a tip. You want to make a little extra money? I think you've got a captive participant over here. I got binges. Yeah. All right. I'll do it. I'll do it for free. Cause Jason would find a 230 inch deer at the zoo. Without even trying. I would pass. In the parking lot.

I promise to make it worth your while, Kurt. I promise. Yeah. He'll throw in a dash shovel. Yeah. I'll leave it dry. All right. Well, good stuff. Well, we appreciate all you're doing on this stuff. It's nice to visit about sheep camp and anybody that's interested, sheepcamp.net, go get on there, get your tickets. And of course, show up in person. That's what the, that's what the fun is. Plus it'll allow you to win anything and everything that they're giving away. Unless you're like John, you got a less than one. You don't have to kill a sheep yet or something. So you'll be eligible for nine of the 10. It's your best odds, John. Yeah. It's you. Exactly. Yeah. It's me. They're speaking to you. Don't miss it. Yep. Put all your tickets in that one bin, John. Somebody's got to man the booth, but I guess that's what Jan is for. I don't know. All right. And then also go to huntexpo.com.

Of course, these are intertwined at the same venue, same dates. Yep. Anyway, so huntexpo.com. So huntexpo.com, February 13 to 16. And of course, get your name in for all the $5 tags. It's going to be, let's call it given away or drawn. And then, of course, go visit all the different vendors. We're going to be there. Everybody's. I know very few people that don't show up at the Hunt Expo. If you're a Western big game, this is kind of the event to go to. There's a lot of events out there, and there's a lot of valuable and, you know, events that are worth your time and money to attend. But this is one that I would say is a must-attend thing, like we talk about must-apply for states. This is a must-attend type event. The huntexpo.com, sheepcamp.net. Go do it, and we'll see you there. All right, Kurt, you got anything else?

No, not much other than, I mean, we were talking about some of these Western states like Wyoming. Just want to let people know from the membership standpoint, we've made some changes with some of our search tools, a little more user-friendly. Now we're talking about Epic. Yeah, now we're moving to, let's move to Epic. So we're on. Like Utah, Colorado, Arizona, all those states where we kind of have our minimum points queries. We've got, we tweaked it. We didn't really change much. We tweaked it where it's a little more user-friendly. So where you can sort by, you know, weapon, you can sort by points, you know, just maybe a little more user-friendly. Well, yeah, you can sort by the weapon, which is, you know, the season or whatever, and then the point tiers. So let's just say you did a minimum points, Wyoming, and you wanted to see all the different tiers from whatever, seven to 12.

You could do a little search for that minimum point and then hit go. There you go. There you go. Right there. Got Logan here running the keyboard. And then now you can just sort by unit type or points. And so if you hit points there, Logan, and then you've got a list of points right there from eight to 12, low to high, boom. Here's your options. You can look at them. And then that way, if you were at the 10-point tier, you could say, well, I can see what I can look forward to at 12. But then behind you, above you, would be, you know, hunts that you could have drawn last year. And you've got to kind of keep that in mind is what did you have last year? If you have 10 this year, you had nine last year when these odds were made. Yeah. And so. Well, I might add, some of these refinements that we add come from members. They say, hey, have you ever thought about this? Exactly.

Jason and I or Kurt get hit. Hey, would you ever thought about, you know, because Wyoming's not a perfect example by weapon because they don't really have like archery deer tags and all that. This would be by type ones. But yeah, like in other states, like in Arizona, you want to crank it out. You want to filter it by, okay, I want to see the archery all together. What can I draw with my points? And then late rifle or muzzle it or whatever else. Same thing with other states like Colorado, you know, rifle hunts versus muzzleloader archery. And it just allows you to separate it instead of have to just plow through it all, you know, with a mix match. You can sort it by weapon. Yeah. Like right there, Logan just did an Arizona deer just because it was quick and easy. Did Arizona deer, sorted it by weapon. Boom, up come all the deer options.

Or you can do a quick touch of the button, sort it by points, touch of the button, sort it by unit, which would be numerical order or, you know, ordered by character, by alphabet. And then you can go through and look at your different units and whatnot. And that's just a quick way to get to the unit that you might be interested in. I don't know. Anyway, just other options that some of the members and friends of ours that have said, hey, this is kind of cool. I wish you could do this. And then pretty soon, Kurt makes it happen. We appreciate it, Kurt. No problem. And then I guess one other highlight is just in Utah, we've expanded to include everything, including the general hunts, even dedicated hunter for the residents, CWMUs. But you would click, like your limited entry units. And then if you want to do the general or dedicated, you click on that.

And now you can go do that search for that whole separate option. Exactly. Both a minimum search and then just even the odds themselves. So, yeah. So just some small add-ons like that. I mean, one side note, if you haven't mentioned it already, I mean, every state's out there, every single one of them. So if you're that person like us where we're talking about Wyoming deer already, that's been, you know, every state, every single one's updated, ready to go. So as you're geeking out on all your applications this year, whether it's due or not, you can start doing all your research now. Well, and we appreciate that coming out timely, I think, too. When Adam and I are dealing with a lot of different guys that are calling in, it's like what happens in Arizona if a guy has a large number of points, could do the Kaibab early rifle or late rifle or whatever it is,

that dictates what you might do in all of these other states. So sometimes you are looking at points that aren't coming due, applications that aren't coming due but do make a difference in your overall strategy. Yeah, if he's thinking I've got enough to guarantee an Arizona early Kaibab tag and I can kind of bank on that even though I apply for that very last by June 3rd or whatever, he can, you know, know that early on. You can go analyze that and steer clear of it on all the other stuff between now and June 3rd. So kind of nice. Anyway, it's something we've been, you know, wanting to do and appreciate Kurt being able to do that for us, getting it all up online because there are some people that, like I say, January 1 hits and they're working on their Arizona sheep application. Thoughts? They are. Well, we have guys. Well, anyway. What?

Just some of these guys that are, let's call them old. Old and retired guys like ourselves. We're not retired and we're not super, super old, but we're getting there. But it's something they're thinking about nonstop and you wouldn't believe. We'll have application deadline for Wyoming elk today and we'll be vetting out Colorado moose options. Yeah, and I make it and I'm talking antelope in Wyoming. Yeah, and you're like, man. Group apps with four to four and a half points. We're talking about stuff that's going to happen in May with a deadline of June 2nd. But it's still fun. Everybody's excited and they want to make plans and then they want to, you know, get time off work or deal with their family or family vacations and planning around all that. So that's what we do and we're excited with them. We tease a little bit. You know, deadline day, it seems like you get a little of everything.

But you don't want to deal with anything other than Wyoming elk. You're like, do you mind if I push you off till, well, next Wednesday is our holiday here at Epic Outdoors. So do you mind if I push you off till like Thursday, maybe even Friday or the following Monday? And then, you know, and then they feel bad. But some of these guys, you know, if they go to their freezer last night and pull out their last packet of antelope meat like Devin and it's your last one, the next thing you're thinking the next day is, what antelope can I draw this next year? Or I wonder if Adam's going to let me have some Oryx meat because I've been asking him about that. I mean, it's like, you know. If you have any of that extra horse meat, I'd sure take care of it for you. You never know what triggers. But, I mean, you could eat the last packet of stew meat, antelope stew meat,

and figure out, I need more antelope meat the next morning. I'm going to call Epic. What can I do to get an antelope? That's right. It's true. All of these are true. These true things. So I grew up in Wyoming, and I don't think I've met anybody who cuts, wraps, and freezes antelope. This is new to me. Really? So you don't have to stop talking. You're going to be investigated heavily. No. I don't want you to say antelope. Oh, you jerky it, you mean. You mean you don't cut and wrap it and freeze it. Yeah, exactly. Okay. No. I was thinking dog food. I didn't know where you were going with it, Kurt. No. We were protecting you. No. Every antelope should just be jerky. Anything above and beyond that is way too much work. Well, you and Devin should talk because he believes. Devin cherishes that stuff.

Let's put it this way. Every tip and trick known to mankind so that they don't taste like sagebrush. No, it does. He saves the sinew. He treats it like currency. You know, it might as well be Bitcoin or something like that to Devin. Yeah. No kidding. He uses this as a bartering material. It's like, who wants it, Devin? Nobody wants it. Just keep that in mind, Kurt. If you do bring a... You know, Bronson, I'd like to try some of that horse meat you just got. I'll trade you for a little bit of rib meat off my antelope from 1953. Exactly. He has currency to that guy. Devin's buying every additional doe fawn antelope tag. Trust me. He's talked about it. It's crossed his mind. He's talked about it. But anyway, nevertheless, and it is. It's an antelope mech up there. I don't know why we got on that subject, but it is. Wyoming was built for antelope and badgers, it feels like, right?

Don't you think, Kurt? Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of badgers. And waterfowl. It's actually one of the... And prairie dogs. It's one of the greatest states ever. Waterfowl? If you were... Oh, really? Yeah. Where? Where? Trust me. All the little street... Oh, there's a lot more water in Wyoming than you'd think. Okay. Yeah. Quit telling people. Am I wrong? Just tell me I'm wrong. No. No. Wyoming's a terrible state. Irrigation, canals, and jump shooting, but I haven't seen many... If you're to be a resident, Wyoming, Idaho, and New Mexico. It's great. But New Mexico's a bit of a blue state. I struggle with that. But, man, the wildlife's off the charts. The opportunities are off the charts. Let them in from all... Yeah. Trevor. Yeah. My son, Trevor, who you guys know, he limits out on geese and ducks all the time. So... Wow. There's a lot more water than people realize. Way...

And they've got to land somewhere. Way... So, yeah. Well... And then same thing. Idaho, same thing. I love... Idaho's just awesome. Big old red state up there. I could totally live in Idaho. And then, you know... And then, of course, Wyoming. There's just a lot of little hidden gems up there. But I just wonder about the very top-end trophy potential that's enough. Of what? For you? Deer and elk and stuff. I mean, I think it's awesome. I'm not worried about when they get back on their feet. Elk is... I'd have to learn how to live at 12K. 10K. You know? Heaven above 10K.

I don't know. Anyway, it's a high country. Hey, you heard from Kurt. He hunt the sage. But, Kurt, has there been two 30 bucks killed out in the sage? Of course, Jason. Summer out in the sage? Just tell me. Of course. Maybe.

He didn't want to talk about Wyoming anymore. Kurt, you're a non-resident. What do you care?

Still protected. Yeah, yeah. He's got grandkids that are residents. It's the cowboy state, all right. I do, yeah. I actually do have grandkids that are residents now. Yeah. Born in Wyoming. They've got to be born in the right state. They can move anywhere after that. They just need to be born in Wyoming. Well, do you become an automatic resident if you're born in Wyoming? I know there's some rules changes coming up with the Trump administration. Yeah, exactly. Hey, you know, and with this drill, baby drill stuff going on, maybe, I don't know, that'll affect Wyoming, too, a little bit. That economy. Definitely. All of the things up there, there's going to be some renewed vigor and energy and lifted spirits up there. That's what I think. What do you think, Brownsley? Yeah, the downside is, though, is the poaching. So, it is a direct coralism.

When you deal with a lot of drilling, yeah, and a lot of oil. Yeah. Yeah. Poaching, they have shown over the years, when the drilling industry goes up, those communities that, you know, those people that find those big bucks out in the middle of sagebrush, poaching goes through the roof. Unit 102 has changed. Oil has changed that place. Exactly. It's just, it's really hurt. Well, let's end on a good note. Everybody go to sheepcamp.net. Go to huntexpo.com. We'll see you at the expo. February 13 to 16. We're good, right? We'll hunt you down, Kurt. Yeah. And, hey, yeah. And, by the way, our online odds are the absolute best of anything I've ever seen. Go check them out. So, we consult on them, I don't know, maybe 15, 20, 30, 40 times a day. All day long. If I come to work, that's the first tab that I refresh, because I know I'm going to use

it within 3.6 minutes of the first call coming through. And don't judge us off of what happened yesterday, because there's changes today. We're always changing and making adjustments. All right. Exactly. All right, Kurt. Well, I don't know. Good talking to you. Good talking to you. Yeah. I don't know what you've got going on the rest of the day, but good luck, whatever you're doing. Good luck with that. Yeah. Thanks. Appreciate it. Talk to you guys soon. All right. Talk to you later. All right. He ain't going there. He wants to drop the Wyoming. What's Wyoming's? I mean, Montana's big sky country. What's Wyoming? Cowboy, right? Just the Cowboy State. Yeah. Is that all it is? I don't know. How about that? They need to advertise a little more. It's not a top of mind. Just windy Wyoming. The windy state. The windy state. Yeah. Come on. What is nose sideways? What is that? Oh, no.

Logan's looking it up.

He's missing the right keyword. What is it? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. We really don't know. AI doesn't know what to do with whatever you're talking about. I looked up the slogan and it said equal rights. Equal rights state? That's not. That's not. No. No, because I can't go into the wilderness without a guy. Is that equal? Okay. Come on. It's not equal. Go ahead. You want to contest it? I think it's been contested. The slogan, I guess, is not the same as what we're thinking because Utah's industry right there says. Beehive state. Beehive state. Jim State's Idaho. So it's Colorado. It's something like that. Nickname or something. I don't know. So past that, I'm not even going to look at the screen. There's a thousand. Let's make it up. You know, Wyoming residents who are screaming right now. The Badger state. The Badger. That's Wisconsin. It's so many Badgers. What is it?

Did you find it? No. No answers. It's Cowboy state. I think that'd be a good podcast sometime. Let's go through every state and we're going to go. So everybody in here, we'll do it maybe next Thursday or Wednesday. No, not Wednesday. I'm taking that day off. We're going to go have a big breakfast. We already talked about that. Because anyway. But let's nickname states. Let's change them so they're hunting related. Let's have people submit. Let's just. Just like Trump is renaming the Gulf of Mexico. Yes. Let's rename some of these states. Let's do it. That's a podcast idea right there. We're going to nickname these states. Yeah. I thought our podcast was supposed to bring value. That is. Arizona. The big A elk state. You know. Something like that. John.

And big Arizona. A for Arizona. I mean, it's the Wapiti. Tobago. Miriam's Wapiti. All right. The Beehive state. I think we could come up with something better than the Beehive state. I know it's industry. It's working. Working bees. We must have had some bees. Busy bees. Busy bees. Let's just. I remember when I was a kid, I get busy bee stickers. Did you? Yeah. I know. I got gypped. I mean. It's like. Okay. Bring in the wood. I bring in the wood. Here's a busy bee sticker. Oh, yeah. Remember those scratch and sniff stickers we used to get in elementary school? That stars on our forehead. Scratch and sniff. Here's your reward. Do they even make scratch and sniff stickers anymore? They do. Do they? Oh. How would you know, Logan? He's scratching and sniffing. Got 100 of them on my wallet. Do you? Come on. No. What? You never know with Logan. Gakwe. He answered so fast.

Like, of course they do. Adam, what do you mean? Of course they do. You want something? Okay. It's like a lottery ticket. Scratch it. See what you got. Nicotine flavor. He's got a skunk spray scratch and sniff over there full in his drawer. That's right. Oh. We got to move right along. Well, talking about. I just wanted to mention on the expo. If you're looking at choosing between different optics, we're going to have sample models there. You can look through them, compare, tell your heart's content, touch them, see how they feel in your hands, and then we're going to have specials as well. So it would be a great place to buy. It is. We've obviously done this for several years now, and hopefully those of you who stopped by when you needed it know we're going to treat you right. We've got a great inventory. Bring our trailer there.

We load up, and, you know, we've always got tripods, you know, rifle scope, spotting scope, range finders, binoculars, anything you're looking for. Stop by. Visit us there. Same place we're always at. What is it? 2744, I think. Does that sound right? Yeah. 2744. Yeah, I think that's what it is. The corner on the back wall. 2744. We call it the pinch point. Well, yeah, it's good. So anyway, yeah, I think it's a great opportunity. Great opportunity to come learn a ton, get some gear at incredible value, and come visit. We appreciate everybody that stops by and apply for tags and whatnot. Brunson, I think we want to talk a little bit about information, the information service, the information age, and you kind of get what you pay for out there. There's a lot of people that are coming out saying, go do this, go do that, like they're an authority, and they haven't done much.

And so I just, and not to, I want to be, it needs to be an uplifting type discussion. You know, it's not, we're not here to just, but just be careful. We're answering a lot of questions that we didn't cause the question to be there. We're answering questions for other dudes that don't answer their phone. You know what I'm saying? Or they got bad information from someone. Yeah, and it could be as simple as just like an Instagram reel or a story or something, and somebody's talking about something. And be careful. Or a podcast. Or a podcast. I mean, there's been a guy, a guy had hit me the other day, he goes, there's one random ALC tag for non-residents. In Arizona. Yeah, in Arizona. Does it go to, you know, a bonus point holder, a max point holder, or does it go on the random? It's like, well, this goes on a random. Like, there's so many examples of this in the raw draw data.

And he's like, that's not what they're saying. Well, I don't know what to say. They're wrong. So, just be careful. I mean, we also pride ourselves on a lot of different eyes looking at our information before we go to print in our magazine. It is not a rinse and repeat. We try to stay on top of all the changes and issues. There's a lot of issues that, you know, we've seen, I'll throw a couple others out there. You may look in our Wyoming elk section or antelope section last year. You'll see some unit that had a low tag numbers, 25, even 50 total tags, right? There was no tags. You remember for non-residents? Yeah. There's a preference point and a random. Within two different price categories. In the special and regular. So, there's four odds columns in Wyoming for non-resident deer, elk, and antelope. Yeah. Okay? And it'll say no tag in all of them. Like, what do you mean there's no tags?

There's 50 total tags. Well, you start calling and asking questions on that. But non-resident landowners that apply and get qualified tags that get drawn for tags come out of a non-resident quota. And some of those units, non-resident landowners took all the available non-resident quotas, so they drew zero in the draw. Okay? There's ways that we know that. You've got to call and find out that. But intuitively, it's just, even when you see it for the first time, it's hard to figure out. But that is a state where you need four non-resident tags in a specific category of price, regular or special, to have a random. Yeah. The first three are going to go to the preference point. And there's a lot of those on elk where they have one or two elk tags and they go to the preference point draw in both cases.

Or, just like with sheep and moose, you've got to have four before one of them drops to a random. And that's why, you know, last year they also took out the super tag, trifecta and the sheep. The raffle. And if it's a non-resident that drew it, which it was, now that's the non-resident quota. It comes out of the sheep quota right out of the gate. And they dropped a quota in unit five, so they only drew three tags. It all went to the max point. So there's just a lot of things. Like, when you analyze odds and you analyze stats and you talk to fish and game people, there's almost a scenario you haven't heard. Very few you haven't heard of. And there's a few that are hatched every year. Some of these Wyoming ones are examples as they've cut their quota from 20%, 25% down to 10% for non-residents.

But just make sure you're getting it from a trustworthy source because we've had a lot of calls this last week. And we're like, where did you hear about this? And they don't really tell you. I don't know where they're hearing. And I don't. I'm okay with whatever you decide to do. We're not even. I don't really care other than we are answering other people's questions. And don't base your whole life on hunting plans around it. Yeah, and I think that's critical, too, is we only have so many years. We only have so many applications. We only have so many application dollars to deal with. And so when you submit an application, you dang sure want it to be for something valid. Yeah. You know, a valid option on a random. If there's no random tag and you're submitting an application for that, nice. You let Wyoming sit on your money for five months for nothing.

Case in point, I had a guy today call me 16 elk points in Wyoming. He'd been told by an outfitter to put in for Unit 124. Okay? What's the problem with that? No randoms. And it was going to max. He would be lending their money for, in the case of elk, three, three and a half months with a 0% chance to draw. Right? Put in by January 31st. The draw's May 22nd. It's waiting for three and a half, isn't it? February, March, April, May. Yeah. I mean, it's a long time. And I'm like, here's why you don't want to do that. I'm glad you walked that through to me. I mean, there's just, it doesn't matter. And we're good with it. Like, this is 101 to us just because we've been doing it for how long? I mean, we're talking, what, 30 years? 25, 30 years following it. And so, anyway, it's fine. It's not a big deal.

I mean, we're on to, you know, watching the best units or the next best units or predicting planning, watching tag quotas come and go, watching management come and go, watching summers, droughts, winters, winter loss. All of these things come into our recommendations of what to apply for. And then we look at the odds and say, okay, these are realistic options of where you could possibly get a tag. And I think that's why our clients, Logan, you've been posting up epic client harvest. Kill is a weird, a little bit of a harsh word. Epic client kills nonstop, right? Nonstop. Now, will you ever run out of content? No. If you did it for 365 days, 10 reels or 10, let's call them 10 story posts on Instagram, would you ever even come close? You wouldn't even use an eighth. No. An eighth of the content. And I think that we're careful not to boast and brag and all that.

But our clients, epic members first off, are some of the most serious out there. Okay? They also have some of the highest point totals, Bronson Lake. Yeah. It's no joke. We brought on a good friend of ours from way back and been dealing with him a bit. But he's also, anyway, it's just time in his life to have us do it. I mean, we load his point totals. There's 20 plus in multiple states. And we're doing this a lot. And our guys are drawing tags. And then they want to go with outfitters. And we're working with them on that. Or they may want to go DIY. Or they may want to choose hunts to go DIY versus guided versus whatever. And this is just something that's just, I don't know. I mean, it's commonplace. It's our job. It's commonplace. That's the best way to put it. This is all we do. It's our job. It's simple. It's as simple as that. It's what we do every day.

This isn't about developing a business off of social media and a podcast and talking about a few things. This is no joke. This is no joke. It's our livelihood. But it's also our clients. Like, you could call it a hobby. But this is the last thing they're giving up. It is. I mean, it just is what it is. Yeah. That's right. Take it very seriously. So, anyway, kind of fun. And that's why it's fun when we've got Kurt just cranking out stuff. If we see something we want, we do it. It's easy. There's no red tape. We get to choose. We don't ask, you know, the powers to be and hope that things change. I mean, we're answering your phone calls. You're not going on some random little whatever call center and boards and hoping to get back in time. We're doing this. And so, anyway, epicoutdoors.com. We'd love to have you on board if you're not. And if you are, we appreciate you.

And it helps us keep doing good things. It's the time of year, too. If you've been a podcast listener, haven't been a member, it's the time that these magazines will benefit you from now through June. Obviously, we do monthly. Cover two or three states each month in great detail. And break it down. You know, hopefully those that are members can speak to that. And there's a lot of other benefits, too, like the member experience list. You know, discounts on optics and gear throughout the year, things like that. But if you've been considerate, it's the time to do it. If you haven't done it, swing by the expo. We'll be there. Booth 2744. You can join there. Check out, like John said, a lot of the new optics. We've got a lot of new stuff. A lot of new optics from several different companies that have launched here in the last month or two that a lot of people maybe haven't even seen.

So, drop by a safe. Bronson, we should talk just very slightly about the optics we were looking through. Well, we've done it ourselves. We've got a lot of new optics. Might be. May or may not be upgrading here very soon on some stuff. Already. Upgrading. Just what it is. We will look through COA. They say the technical word. COA, COA, COA, whatever. COUS. COUS, COUS. COUS. Whatever. Right? So, COA's spotting scope. Very impressed. Best spotting scope we've ever looked through. I don't know what else to say. We ordered a bunch of them. We're dishing them out like candy here at the office. Of course, they're paying for it. But I'm just saying it's one of those things, you know, it's just another something you should look through. I'm not saying any of the rest of it's bad. It's not bad.

There's just something that says it's, you know, kind of a good, better, best, but it's more like excellent and an excellent plus and an excellent plus plus. You know what I mean? A and A plus. Yeah, something like that. I don't know how you grade it. But you can see cracks in rocks that you didn't see the crack in some of the other optics. Okay? I'm just saying it. And we're not talking about a low-grade optic. We're talking about the best of the best against the best of the best. Come by the expo. We can sure visit about that or call in. But if you want the best, we've got them at the best deal you can have. And I'm not just trying to sell you on something. Look through it. Just go look through one. Go look through a COA 99 versus a Suaro or any other product out there. Just go do it. And see what you think. Just throwing it out there. I'm blown away.

So, Bronson, you know, we're finishing up this thing. But let's just talk. You just got back from New Mexico hunting oryx with your daughter. We teed it up on a podcast before you left. I think you called me the morning. Yeah, it seems like we called you. I don't know if that. Did you actually use that? We weren't even teasing. The 6.5 Need More was out. I don't know. I haven't listened to the podcast. Did you actually use that call? Right. Of course we did. I was laying in a hotel deck when you called me. I was. Well, Jason hit me like 7.45 or 8 in the morning. Hey, we're going to call you here in 10 minutes. Oh. Gee, I better get up. Okay. No, so actually, the way that went down is you had to go to that course, but then you had a lot of time to do nothing. Yeah, well, the problem is, yeah, it was the day we couldn't hunt.

So, you know, for those of you who probably know or at least know, they've got oryx we're brought into in the late 60s onto White Sands Mitchell Range in south central New Mexico. And over the years, they just went gangbusters. I think, you know, we learned a little bit down there. I think at one point they thought there were like over 10,000 other dang things. Now they're thinking there's about 3,000 of them on there. But, of course, they've expanded from there, and they're off range, too, in places. They're just, you know, the installation is just a four-, five-strand barbed wire fence. It's not like, you know, it's like high-fence compound. You know, stuff can get out, and elk can get onto there and things like that. So, anyway, being that it's a military installation, they have, you know, a background check that goes into you.

You have to, back when you draw a tag, just for those of you that maybe don't know, you get an information packet. You apply with, each guest can have up to three non-hunting companions that they bring. They all have to be in one vehicle, the hunter and the people. You can't bring, like, three guys, and they're all going out on different trucks and spreading out. Radios, the whole team thing. Exactly. You've got to be, each hunter's got to be in one. In this case, my daughter and I actually, you know, drew together, which was, I don't know, for, you know, six or seven tags, kind of tough to do. They're tough odds, but anyway, it finally was time. It was last, well, April that those come out. So, it was finally time to go do it. And, yeah, a couple of days before, this is like, most of the hunts down there, whether

you're stallion range or roads, are three-day hunts, like a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And you apply for, you know, different hunts. Most of these areas have three to four hunts, you know, spaced out every month or six weeks. So, these, they're spooky. They're wild. They know what you're about. They know what gunshots are, things like that. But anyway, we got an email, kind of an urgent one, a day or two before, right before we were taking off, that due to some missions, they were going to, you know, have to prolong something. Close the base. Then to close it on the Friday, they weren't going to be able to allow us, but we were still going to be able to do our orientation. It was just going to be later in the day, but there would be no hunting on Friday. So, right there, you've got half of your day is taken up.

And it's the type of thing that, you know, depending on the time of year, I'm sure, because when we were there, you know, at 6.30 in the morning, they'll let you on, you're off at 6.30. Earlier in the year, like September and all that, when days longer, I'm sure it's different times. But the moral of the story is, if you don't want to get kicked off and not invited back the next day, don't miss getting off the base. This is not like a, oh, well, we were just a long ways away. You can get on that thing and drive an hour and a half out there to be by yourself. And you've got to keep that in mind when you're going to get off at night. Anyway, so the first day, yeah, you're there in line. You're there. We're at an hour and a half early. And we, I don't know, we, me and Jordan, Jordan Jensen, buddy of ours with Premium Hunts guy, he was helping us out.

And he's like, you know, let's just, let's just go, we're going to, this is, you know, you're going to see plenty of these. Let's just, let's look for, let's look for something big. And I'm like, whatever. I've never even seen what these days. Missed the first day. Mandatory. Yeah. So now you're on day two. Second, you're on day two and it's a three day season. Yeah. So now we've got just two days. And we saw a lot. We did. And a lot of them were running from you. They're, they're, they're doing that thing. And plenty of stuff that's good. And of course, my daughter's saying, dad, dad, dad, I just, I just want one that just is not broken. I want just one that looks like an Oryx, you know, not one that looks like half sheep, half Oryx. Makes sense. Like the one I described earlier. But anyway, long story short that day, we'd seen a bunch and made a few plays on, on a

couple of them for her. Of course, it's all about her until we can get her, her one killed. Cause obviously I'm not going to dump something and then, you know, right in front of your kid. It's going to look pretty bad. But you know, in all honesty, you know, you, you got to be on your toes. Sometimes they're stampeding off the roads and they don't really stop well, or they do. And you might get a quick far shot. And we got a couple of those for her that day. Then we got a little bit windy in the afternoon. Long story short, by the time it gets mid afternoon, three, four o'clock, you're starting to think, okay, do we really have time to do a whole lot more than just start puttering back? Because you get a flat tire on the way back. Oh yeah. You got problems. And they warn you profusely. Like do not, this is not a suggestion. 630 is not a suggestion.

It's you're here and through the gate and out of here. And this is even the case for sheep. You draw a sheep tag. You don't get a camp out on there. You got to come on the day and you got to get out every day and stay in, you know, either friends' houses or local motels or whatever. So it's, it's something that's in the back of your mind. This is a missile range. Yeah. Oh yeah. The range is open at 6 p.m. Yeah, exactly. And you know, of course it's shut down, but anyway, a lot of animals. Anyway, so it came to the second day and I'm like, okay, honey, I will. She's like, dad, the first day of hunting, the last day. The last day. I was like, dad, I do not, I'm not passing one up. And we saw one. We were like the third truck in line that day. And we see, we, we started driving up there and there's this, there's this lone bull stand off the road, like 200 yards.

And we'd actually passed the two trucks that were in front of us just because they're going, it's in the dark and they're going like 40 miles an hour. And it's a 55 mile an hour road, you know, paved. And so we just got by, we just got by and it's dark. You can't even see, you can't even shoot. And we're just, we're just trying to get away from people. And by the time it got light out there in front of us, there's, you know, now they're speeding up and they're right on us. And there's this bull stand out there. And I said, let's don't. Cause they're like 300 yards behind us. And I don't want to slam on the brakes and them slam on the brakes. And you're trying to kill it before they do. You don't want to, you don't want that scenario. It's everybody's last day. Yeah, it is. Right. So we just said, honey, let that be the first only one. She's like, I told you, I am not passing it on.

So anyway, we went on, saw a few other groups and then it became time. All right. We're finally out kind of by ourselves. We want to be found a group. And actually in that group, like two of them had busted horns and the one she killed didn't. And so it was pretty obvious. So which one are you going to shoot? Like that one. And anyway, made a great shot. You know, you definitely have, you know, have a tripod with a shooting clamp out there. And she made a great shot, like 450, 475 yards. Epic shooting clamp. Dropped it in its tracks. It was fun. And anyway, took a couple pictures and, you know, gutted it. We decided, hey, it's still kind of prime time in the morning. Let's throw it in the back of the truck and tag it, throw it in the truck. And keep hunting for a couple hours.

And maybe if we don't kill one for me, middle of the day, we'll take a quarter at bone at getting the coolers and all that, which we had with us. So, but, you know, within an hour and a half, I don't know how long it was. You know, we drove up on another lone bull that took off running like a banshee. And luckily he stopped and looked one time at about 350. Stopped. And I was on him and dialed. So he stopped and just hammered. It was fun. It was really fun with her. It's a great hunt to do with kids or family or guys. You know, it's not always going to be common that you're going to be able to draw a hunt together. It's normally never like that. But in this case it was. And we had an awesome time. Had a lot of, you know, 12 hours of windshield time with you and one of your kids. Me and my daughter had a great time. A lot of talking. A lot of fun.

Something new we'd never seen before and did. It was a great time. And then coming home we had the same thing. Just a great time together. And the whole way home she's talking about 2025 and plans and what she wants and all that. So got to work the magic wand again. Try to draw something for her. So great. It was a fun time. That's what I think. John, see how this works.

It's not combat tag drawing between father and daughter. This is together. We have experiences together. Father. Okay. For everybody who's wondering. Once in a lifetime oryx. This is in jest. This is in jest. I don't really hate my daughter drawing tags. We love. It is in jest. And I love teasing John. But. And you, John, you are dad of the year in 14,000 aspects way more than me. Oh. I wish you were my dad. Maybe 15,000. Yeah. Pretty amazing dad. So it's all in good fun. But it is awesome when you go and do that. And you end up drawing a tag like that. What a great experience. Way more fun for me to go down there. I mean, it would have been, I don't want to say anticlimactic, but it's not that difficult. You want to go with somebody. Yeah. It was really good. And it was the perfect scenario. You know, had we had that first day to go out and see some, pass some, probably would

have jumped all over a couple on the second morning. But it was second morning was the first morning in all reality in this case. But it was awesome. Fun time with her. Highly recommend. They're hard to draw. Like I said, once in a lifetime. And anyway, had a great time. So I want you to correct my vision. You know, sometimes you can't video these hunts. No. So in your mind, sometimes you imagine how these hunts go. So this is mine. I imagine it's like a Baja race right at the first. It's not. And all the trucks are lined out. And it's like, go. No. You are single file. But just to the fact, you are. And you're backed up for. It's kind of like when they start a race and everybody's going around the track. Yes. Everybody's passing each other. And they're starting to wheeze. That's how I've always imagined that. They're starting to wheeze. They're staying in line.

Finally, Bronson, they were doing 40. And Bronson's like, I'm over it. We bump drafted off to somebody and pulled out. And we were good. Yeah. And they've never looked back. But you are lined up. And some people were there. We got there the first day. And we were probably the 15th or 20th car. And we were there like at 5 or 5.15, an hour and a half before it opens. And we're like the 20th guys in line. Scrolling social media. Doing whatever. Waking up. Eating your breakfast. Sitting there in the dark. But you've got to pull up. You've got to say who you are. The day before, they've checked all your IDs. You sign all the photo disclaimers. You do all the, you know. Name and date of birthplace. All that type of stuff. You go through that. So the next day, they know the truck you're coming in. They know the license plate. You say who it is.

And there's a little bit of that in between cars that self-regulates you. But I'm not going to lie. When we pulled in that first one, when we got through the gate, I just yelled, boogity, boogity, boogity. Let's go racing. If you're a NASCAR fan, you'll get it. You know, it's just kind of like what they do when the green flag goes down. Yeah. And it wasn't really like that. Because, and honestly, once you start getting out there, like, we hardly even ran into people except for on the main roads. Like, it's so big. I'll bet there's orange killed right there where you were at. Like, I mean. We saw them. The day before when we're sitting there, they're sitting there right there at the gate. We're like, if they're here in the morning, somebody's going to just touch off right here. So, yeah. Yeah. There's plenty of them.

Obviously, some of them that hang there, they know the gig a little bit more. It doesn't mean that you go further away, they're less spooky. They get hunted. And these things roam all over that place. But it is a giant, giant, giant place. I can't remember how many square miles, but it's huge. You know. Divided in half. You could hear the stuff on the other side of the mountain. You know, they've still got active missions going on. It's that big. They've got active missions on another part of the base going on. He's here at Gunfire or whatever, and you're not even, you're 20 miles from it or something like that. So, anyway. Fun stuff. Pretty awesome. All right. Well, that's why you apply right there. I mean, it's awesome. I would discourage people to apply as a group. Yes. You know what I mean? Just do. No, I'm saying, though. Like, I would.

I mean, Jason and I, I think, have the last couple years. We're like, well. Only because. It'd be funner to go with somebody else. Kind of. And then this year. It's kind of like Antelope. When you went up to Wyoming, you were like, okay. I don't really need to go do this by myself. I'm done with that. I've already proclaimed that. And that's the fun part. I will do it with kids or y'all in the future. Yeah. You just. To drive that far to shoot one Antelope and come home, it's like, yeah. Only Devin does that. Yeah. Exactly. All right. All right. Let's end it. Everybody should be applying. Okay. I don't know when this is coming out, but you got until 11.59 tonight. And Tuesday, 11.59 is another deadline for Arizona. Elk and Antelope. Arizona time. So, you know. Yep. You're not going to say, well, I'm on the East Coast. I wonder if Arizona Game of Fish is going to let me in. Just know.

Make sure your hunting license is valid the day of the deadline. But if you're applying today, like on the 3rd or 4th, and it lets you, just make sure it's still valid on the 4th of February. Valid the day you apply and valid on the deadline day. That's right. So, like, I've got kids, Jana, whatever, that I've got to do it on the deadline day. Because I don't want to buy them a license right now. No, I could do it right now, but I can't get a twofer. That's right. Yeah. Anyway. So, let's talk about that real quick now that I opened up that can of worms. Oh, yeah. That's a little something. In the past, when you went to buy your license, which, again, it's at a separate part of their website. You don't buy the license when you're applying. Just go to one of the upper freaking buttons and down. Buy a license. Buy a license.

You used to pick any day of the year that you wanted it to start on. And you can still do that. But it has to be valid. If you buy it right then and then go to apply. And you validate it for today. Yeah. Then you're good. But if you do it for the 4th, you need to wait until the 4th to apply. Yeah. It won't let you apply anymore. It has to be valid when you apply and on deadline day. So, a lot of times, you could go ahead, buy your license to start it on the deadline day, and then go ahead and apply, and you're good. Well, now it makes you wait. If you delay the start date to the deadline day, that's when you have to wait to apply. That's a tip. It's new. It's new. The other side of that is it's good for 365 days. So, you have normal calendar ratcheting. In many years, you can apply on the 4th. Let's say you do it on February 4th.

And then the following year, if it comes on the 3rd, the deadline day is the 3rd, you would be valid. And so, you'd be able to apply for the elk, the deer and the sheep here in the summer, the bison and whatnot, turkey and whatever else, in October. And then back on elk. And then you would have to buy one that second year in June, but buy it on deadline day again on the sheep and the deer deadline. And then the next year, it's going to be good for elk again, going to be good for bison and the thawnd, elk again, and probably deer again. If you have the normal calendar ratcheting. Yep, that's right. So, every couple years, every other two to three, if you do it right, you'll get a twofer. Yeah. Yeah. Save you 160 bucks, because when you put in a family of six people, it adds up.

I've got kids doing turkeys and this and that, so you have to have a valid hunting license when you're in the field. And so, now I've got licenses that are April. And I'm just like, why? Now, I never get a twofer. And it doesn't matter. You've got to get one per year. You've got to get a license per year. So, in reality, whatever. It just makes you feel better to get the best of them once in a while. The difference, like you, if we live close enough and we go hunt turkeys or coyotes or anything, you do have to get one. But if you're only applying in the draws, that's all you do. You don't ever go to Arizona or to hunt quail or anything like that. You don't really need one. So, a twofer makes a little bit of sense. Yeah, especially a family of five or six when it costs you six, eight hundred bucks. I don't know why I had to open up that. I'm just sorry. Apologize. Tip of the day.

Tip of the week. Another two minutes. But, anyway, we're done, Logan. Everybody have a great weekend. It's freaking Friday. Get your wraps in. Have a great weekend. By the way, it's spring outside.

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