EP 345: Breaking Down Colorado and Montana Big Game Hunting for 2025

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson. Of course, Logan's at the keyboard. Bronson, it's just you and I today. How you doing? Doing great. Be better in about a week, but we're in the thick of it right now. Yeah, we are. We're in the thick of it. Western big game. We're right here. This is some of the most exciting times for you and I because this marks the start of the scouting season. In two months, we have got a big portion of the heavy lifting of the app season over with, and we're now looking forward to scouting, planning, all of those kind of things. You know what I mean? It's at that phase right now, too. A lot of states to apply for are still right ahead of us in the next roughly 30 days. Well, two months, we'll call it. And here come the end of April, or mid-April, we'll start getting results back. So, making plans. Making plans like it's at you.

Because it is. This isn't part-time for us. This is full-time. What do you got? Oh, I just wondered, Logan, what do you got on your hand there? I got a little finger cast on me. Logan, did you have a little owie? I did. What happened to you, Logie Bear? I had an accident. Logie Bear had an accident. How'd you get that on a middle finger? Splint on a middle finger. That begs a lot of questions. Well, there's those axe-throwing places, and then those axe-throwing places. That sounds tough, right? Oh, yeah. I threw an axe. I ain't near chomped it off. No, there's nothing tough about this story. Okay, well, let's have it. All right, whatever. Let's do it. So, those axe-throwing places, you can go into a room and smash TVs and computer screens or whatever. It used to be just an axe-throwing place, at least here in Cedar. Oh, now they matter. What do they call that? A rage room.

Yeah, a rage room. How would you define the term rage room? What's the purpose of that in this world? I guess there's a lot of pent-up aggression in people, and you can pay $30 and go let some of it out. $30? Yeah. Wow. That's not bad. What can you do in there? The new generation, they don't exercise. All they have, they like doing there. And at some point, your body needs to exercise and go do – go break stuff. Yeah, let it out. It was good. Okay, so they gave me like a big old three-foot pipe wrench, heavy. And you're on a date, right? Oh, I'm on a date, yeah. I did this for a date. And about – this was the first thing we did. And about five minutes into the date, we were in that room, and I'd hammer swing, axe swing, that big old pipe wrench onto a TV, and as it comes down, my finger gets stuck between

the top of the TV and the pipe wrench, and I just smash it right on that top knuckle there. I'm going to go out on a limb, Logie Bear. Don't become a framer. No. Okay. I just don't think that's good. I'm not good with a hammer. Or an industrial-sized plumber. I'm going to stick to the computers. Let's stick to the computers. Don't do physical labor. I'm going to stick to the desk job. I feel safe there. There's no risk. That's your safe place. My office is my safe spot. And you have to wear glass-proof coveralls and gloves and masks when you do that. And so when I did it, it just felt like I honestly ripped my fingernail off, and so I was waiting for the blood to come through my glove, and, of course, I'm on a date. So I'm not going to let anybody know that that happened. Yeah, just suffer through the next 30 minutes. And we get out of the room.

Our time is up, and she goes to the bathroom before we start throwing axe. And while she's gone, I take off my glove and look. There's no blood, but it is, like, crooked. Yeah. Like, it goes straight up and straight down in a triangle. That's your bird finger. Yeah. You know, it's a necessary finger.

Unnecessary. And, yeah, so. You knew right then. You had problems. I knew it was broke. And so I wasn't going to do anything. How do I get out of this with grace? Like, how am I going to be a big, tough guy? Yeah. I told her that I smashed it, and it was probably broke. But we finished the date. I wasn't. She told me we could go to the hospital, and I said I wasn't. No. Come on, darling. But then you went home and went straight to the emergency room. I did. I wasn't going to do anything about it, but my parents told me if I didn't get it straightened out, it'd be disfigured. So away we went. Enough you went, and then what did they find out? It's broken in two places. On the top of the knuckle, pretty good fracture, and then a pretty good one down in the middle. What I find interesting, though, is you found out that this old gal, she could protect you.

Well, she went way crazy at that place than I did. She, like, had a big old hammer, and she got up on a table and jumped off and smashed a TV. Jumped off? Yeah, jumped off the table and smashed the TV screen. Did it make you nervous? Could you imagine closing your eyes at night? I was nervous. I don't know that I could sleep. Let's just say you got married. I know. It's far out. Let's just say you did. Who would discipline the kids? Hey, who's going to discipline the kids? She's probably going to discipline you. After that 30-minute rage room, I already knew I would not have the pants in that. Could you sleep with both eyes closed with this gal next to you? No. I'd remove all tables and hammers from the premises immediately. Has there been another date? I mean, are we talking about something in past tense now? Is this still a fostering? Yeah, I went out with her last night. Okay.

So you can choke about this. With your little finger? Yeah. Yeah. It was a... I had to put together a dresser last night. A little something. A splint, I think. A splint. Yeah. Whatever it is. Cast. Wow. Well, the things they got for entertainment. So what do you think? Why did she rage so hard? What would you get? What would you get? An ex-boyfriend? I asked her what she was angry about, and she said, I don't know. It was just fun. So I don't know. It was fun. I guess. I don't know. That's even scarier. It felt like a vague answer. If you had to do it again, Bronson, if you had to do it again, it'd be smart to take your old gal to the rage room for a minute. It'd be scarier if they say, oh, I'm not mad at anything. I was just kicking the butt. I love that. Yeah, I love that. Instead of having a real pinned up one thing she was trying to get over, and then it was over? Yeah.

No, this is... If you're trying to find out if a future wife's going to be abusive to you, take her there. That's a good place to do it. Yeah. I learned a lot in that five minutes. Hey, those are also the kind of gals that could put tire chains on, probably use a handyman jack. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So... Build a chicken coop. We're going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you saw it with your own eyes and got the own vibe and impressions and all that. As an outsider, it's still, I don't know, weird. But you were there and I wasn't. Yeah. And I won't be. Oh, Logie Bear. Too old for a rage room. I love it. Yeah, I'm not. When we raged, dads ticked, right? Yeah. You guys might could use it. I don't know. Ugh. Well, no. Epic smash. That's so rare in my life, I feel like, anymore. Right now, I'd pull out a vertebrae or, you know? Break another finger? Oh, yeah.

I don't know. I'd pull a hammy jumping off a table onto a TV with a pipe wrench in my hand. Something's going to go wrong. More than a finger. It's not. We're not that old. But sometimes one makes you wonder. Well, all right. So, interesting stuff, Logan. Hey. Thanks for that update in your life. You're welcome. It was unavoidable. You got a big splint on your middle finger. It sticks out. I knew it was coming. Have you made any other big purchases at the Epic Outdoor Store? No. Not really. I mean, I've... What do you mean? Bronson's got you going on a rifle. Oh, yeah. I did. I bought a gun. Yeah. I bought a Remington 243. That thing is sweet. Is it? I shoot that thing all the time. I can't. It's awesome. Really? I love it. Yeah. Gee. Best gun you ever had, Bronson? I owned it for like two weeks. Never shot it. NIB. That's right. Found a different caliber.

I didn't think I could find a different caliber. So, I found a 2250. Sold Logan 243. I like it. Called it a day. I love it. Moved on. Money changes hands. The economy's moving and growing. That's what I like. You better believe, Logan, that I've written down the serial number of that gun and who owns the gun in case it ever gets used in a poaching incident. You can say your hands are clean. I'll know where that gun went. Okay. Even though the background check was in my name, personal transactions in Utah are legal. Guys, you don't have to come fully clean on a podcast. What do you mean? I mean, whatever weird stuff that's happened behind the scenes can stay there. No. There's nothing behind the scenes. I'm just saying, Logan, don't think you're going to get away with whatever you want with that gun. It was in my name originally. You say the economy's growing when money changes hands? No.

It's the epic circular economy where money goes from Jason and Adam back to Jason and Adam. Epic economy directly affects Adam and I. I can't go back over there anymore. Well, there'll be something new. We call Logan the hungry fish because you throw a shiny lure in front of him, he'll hit it every time. Every time. That's why I don't go over to your side. I got it. He's going to buy a truck until Bronson started talking too much. Maybe it was reeling a little too fast and he couldn't quite catch it. He was following it. He was following it. He just wouldn't quite hit. I think he'll hit. You're not. I'm pleading the fifth right now. I told Sean last night and he says, don't sell him that truck. It's had too many hard wells. I'm a little nervous to buy Jason's hunting truck, but after I know how much work went into it this year, I'm a little less nervous.

Right now, it's the good it's ever been. It's better than new. It's got 108,000 and it's better than new. If there was ever a time to buy it, it'd be before the fall. Yes. It is. Before the first T-post and post-pounder gets thrown in the bed of the truck and it gets used in trail camera season. Before the appets. Before the next ball joint. It's got, well, I could go through the list. It's got some stuff on it. It's nice. Yeah, it's tempting. King shocks alone. I know. A little camper shell, 3,500. You just keep adding the $3,000 add-ons and I'm getting all those for free. Pretty soon you got a new truck. Yeah. For the double. Pretty soon I'm paying MSRP for that thing. My point is better than new. The tires are amazing. All right. So anyway, moving on. We've got this new COA promotion going on out there, Bronson. And everybody's questioning, is it really high quality glass?

Within the spotting scope realm, it is extremely hard. Pretty amazing. Extremely clear glass. On each one, we try mostly the small end and the upper end because that's what we use. We use, you know, the big one with the 99 as well as the smaller 55. And they're crisp and they're clear and they're vibrant. They're awesome. We love them. And they do have a promotion going on now through, you can check our social media. I think it's through May 18th, I believe. Big sell on all those. If you're looking at a new spotting scope, definitely something you want to consider here in the next roughly two months. They were affordable for being the very upper echelon optic. They were extremely affordable to begin with considering the competition. And then now you've got a sale on top of that. They're just not going to be beat.

It's not like let's wait for the better sale or President's Day or Memorial Day or whatever. Christmas or Black Friday. This is kind of the sale for the year. Anyway, pretty awesome. They'll be on sale for April Fool's. It's no joke. No joke. Hey, April Fool's, by the way, is coming up fast, Bronson. We've got April 1st. What's all due on April 1st? Let's throw it out there real quick. Yeah, I guess that was a segue. Yeah, well, first off, we'll talk about Montana deer and elk. That's coming up here on Tuesday the 1st, 1145 p.m. I want to emphasize this is just for deer and elk. The sheep, moose, goat, bison is May 1st. The antelope is June 1st. And I also want to stress that if you're not interested in applying for Montana this year, they do have the points only. You can't even do points right now. The points only is in the summer, starting in July through September for the bonus points.

And then you have until the end of the year to do the preference point, which is for their general. Just as a reminder, don't buy that $100 preference point this summer if you don't intend to hunt in 2026, because it's going to be a waste of money now. The one thing I like about that is that $100 gives you an option. Gives you an almost guaranteed option next year. Next year, if you don't apply for a tag in 2026, that point goes to zero, which is okay. You'll get another point. So you'll be in the same level, and you'll have an option each and every year. It just gives you the option to go to two points since they are unique, and they award your points prior to conducting the draw. So if you bought one this summer for the general, you go in next year, buy your second one, that's been like a 90. It's 100% on deer only. Or it's like 90% on the elk-deer or elk combo. So keep that in mind.

Deadline to apply. It's a little bit tricky. You do have to apply for the general licenses, either deer or elk-deer or elk combo, as a prerequisite. They get you on the hook for that. They make you pay the tag fee up front. If you draw that and you also then selected a limited entry, they call them special elk or deer, then they run that draw. If you don't draw those special elk or deer, you had the option when you applied. To check, I want a refund completely, 80%, or I want the refund of the elk portion only and keep the deer. There's a few caveats there, but it's all spelled out in the magazine. Or you can retain it, keep it, have the option, and then still get an 80% refund if you do it. Turn it back by August 1st. Yeah. So that gives you options. That's what I like is just having the options.

But it's not like I'm dying to go to Montana necessarily, although there's been people that know it and the locals and guys that hit it hard. Locals, it's just a little different. The drawing odds are quite a bit better. Especially for archery in eastern Montana, which is where we all want. Yeah, bigger bulls. Yeah. You know, it is a great state if you want to hunt general elk in different places. A lot of variety there from private land guided hunts to backcountry wilderness hunts and a little bit of everything in between. So many nuances when you're dealing with Montana. You know, as far as, like we had a guy the other day, Bronson, he was like, hey, I've got, there's going to be a party of three of us. And we got one guy that has a couple of points, two of us that have don't have any points.

You know, are they going to average them even if we don't elect to participate in the point system at this point in time? And they are going to on the preference. But if you're going in on the bonus, they wouldn't. You would elect to not participate in the point system on the limited entry special draw units, let's call it. And some people might ask, why would you elect to not be in for the special outdraw and use your points? Well, there's some that can be drawn 100%. They're high private land hunts. And if you've got points built up, but I want to hunt that private land unit that's 100% draw. First choice. Don't elect to use your bonus points for elk there. You're going to get it. You'll maintain your points. That's right. But on the general, they're going to use your points. If you draw a tag, you're using your points whether you participated. That's right.

To get that point in advance of going into the draw, you know, as you did that. And so your group, keep that in mind. If you average in, look at what it took to draw on the general. Look at where you're at. And if you're, let's just say you're 1.5 or 1. You average in at 1. That might change who you invite into your group if you really want to go this year. Because without points and you elect not to participate in the system, you'd have like a 57% chance with no points or whatever. That's right. And so you don't have that chance if somebody in your group averaged in with you, even if you don't participate in the system. And so it's just nonstop learning. Like there's little things nonstop. Montana is known for that. And they've actually, some of these over the last three to four years, they've changed. They changed. But that's how they are this year.

And again, the March magazine has it all dialed in. You've got a week to apply roughly. And a preference point pertains to the general no matter what it is. If it's deer only, elk deer combo, elk only combo, which combo with birds and 14 other things. All right, guys. What else is on the first? Anything else on Montana? It would be very important. No. Heck no. Let's blow by Montana right now. And anyway, and people don't want us to give everything on the podcast. But I have a feeling we're going to dive into this. We're going to do a deep dive into Colorado. We might. I don't know why. Don't know where this is going. Other than consulting never ends in Colorado. It feels like every week is a new conversation with the same guy. And I like it. There's passion behind it because it's a significant portion of a lot of people's hunt plan. Well, it is.

And what's added to that, too, is they passed a new five-year season structure, which didn't change dramatically the season dates. They did add some new things for, like, first season deer in a few units. But what they really did is they approved a complete, I guess you'd call it overhaul, of their draw process beginning in 2028, Jason. And that's caused a lot of questions. The people that, hey, what does that mean right now? What should I be doing? You know? And how many times have we answered that question? Okay, so let's just go into this real quick, Bronson.

2028, the changes in 2028 are monumental. Having said that, how do we know how to quantify what those changes will mean for draw odds is dang near impossible. You've got hunter preferences. So what's going to happen is basically half the tags are going to be available to people with the most points. Preference point system, like it's been. Half the tags will be randomly allocated with each and every point being an additional name in the hat. Okay? Let's just talk deer. So you can draw every deer, elk, and antelope tag in the state. You could. Anybody could now. You could. Yep. In 28. You could. And so some guys with two points would say, well, I'm really a very, very intense trophy hunter. I'm going to go in for 44 third or 44 fourth only or a 61 or whatever they perceive to be the best in the state. Right? Now they have a chance.

That takes them out of 35 second, 35 third, 62 second, 68 second, or whatever it might be. It would totally take them out because that's not their first choice now. First choice is for something they're swinging for the fence that before took 25 points and they had zero chance to draw or 28 points and had zero chance to draw. Now they get a chance. So you're going to have some people do that and use their first choice that. But then there's the other side of things like, yeah, now if you're looking at a unit that takes, let's just say, five or ten points now. All the tags are going to the high point holders now, keeping either point check or point creep in check or maybe it's slightly growing. And then you take now half of those tags and remove them. Now you're only going to be taking half as many tags off the top. And some units you could see be affected.

If they're not targeted by a lot of random people and all that, you could see point creep dramatically increase in certain units because instead of drawing out hypothetically 50 tags off the top for non-res, you're taking 25. It is unique because you don't know what those hunter preferences are going to look like. That's going to be a hindsight is 20-20 kind of thing. We're not going to know until 2028 and we'll look back and go, okay, there was some significant changes. It's new for everybody and so nobody's knowing what to do. So some guys that are applying for 62, I would contend, or let's call it, Bronson, let's just call it like a unit. Gosh, I hate to throw things out there because you're going to throw some people under the bus. They hate it when we name their favorite units. But let's just say it's a unit 71, okay? 71, 711, something like that.

That guy probably isn't going to be in a 44 applicant. He is probably really like 71 for some reason, has friends, family there, knows it, maybe killed a big buck in 1953 there, whatever it is, right? And so his odds may be affected because now he's really dealing with half. Yeah. Right? Instead of a bunch of tags, that unit's not probably attracting a ton of random draw applicants if you want to call them that. Yeah, probably not. And so, yeah, half of your tags now got taken out and are given to people at zero or one or two or whatever down there. And it might make point creep worse in that unit. It might. But then if you go to, say, a unit 54, okay? No secret there. Gunnison, very popular unit. 54, 55, 67, 66 even. 551 seems to be doing a bit better. But let's just say than it has. Not than the other units. But than it has in past history.

But let's just say a 54 guy, that's a trophy guy, okay? So that trophy guy, what's he going to do? He's trying to kill a giant but doing it within a smaller point realm than what 44 normally takes. What's that guy really going to do? 54 has been struggling. No secret there. Been hard. Maybe something we don't know about. But really, a 200-inch is almost impossible, right? So is that guy going to go ahead and let 54 recuperate for a minute and deviate from that until he sees a change there in an uptick and go ahead and throw in for 44? Bounce and another trophy unit. Well, he gains a point or two. Yeah. A lot of scenarios for people to weigh out. It's going to... Some units are going to have point creep advance quite a bit. Others, I would say, be very unaffected. And then you've got the passion. So passionate people are going to vet this thing out fully.

Then you've got other people that just aren't going to know what those changes really look like. And they're not too worried about it. But they're stressed that the changes will cause them not to draw. So they're going to use them right now. Yeah. And there is some wisdom in that. And you're going to have point creep in 2025. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to have some this year because people that haven't been doing it know that this next three years, use your points. And so there is people kind of flaring. They want the unit they put in for to have the full quota go into preference over this three years because that might benefit them because they're on the verge of drawing that specific tag. And it could take more than that in 28. So we're getting a lot of questions like that. Not just a lot. No. I would say like hundreds. I don't know.

And getting hundreds of calls, too, on this next topic, which is what units can I draw second choice on the new archery draw job? Okay. The archery elk. So the big change for 2025 was is non-residents can't just get OTC archery elk. Okay. And so then they're saying, what are my odds for a 62 archery elk? How do we know? How do we know? You know what I mean? That one is fairly popular. It's probably going to take a point. Or maybe it doesn't take any. Depends on the quotas, right? It all hinges on quotas. And what are those? We don't know until probably May. And why don't we know? Because they haven't set them. No, because they don't want to release them. They don't want the questions and the feedback of what? But guarantee you, CPW wants to issue what they've always issued. They want the revenue, right? And so how much feedback are you going to get from the residents?

Hey, this is me surmising. I'm not anti-CPW. I mean, we take exception to things they choose at times. But we actually have friends within the department. And I think they're good people. I just, you know, they have dealt with some old things and things that we don't agree with. But anyway, moving on. That's not, those proposed recommendations, quota recommendations aren't coming out until after the deadline. Yeah, and there's been a lot of people asking how many points is it going to take to draw. Not understanding fully that it takes what the draw applicants dictate. I mean, we're only going to know that after the draw. It's not like the points required to draw is determined by the fish and game prior to running the draw. It's determined after the applicants apply for the hunt, the tags are awarded, and they run out at two or one or zero. That's what it takes.

So, like, there's no way to predict that. And there's no way to predict what units you're going to be able to draw a second or third choice and build a point. There's no way to do that. And there's too many units. If you look at the new list now of limited entry, we'll call them non-resident limited entry archery elk units that were OTC. It's extensive, Jason. They put them in a separate section because residents, so they have the main section of elk draw stuff. That are drawn for everybody. That's drawn for residents and non-residents. Yeah. Then they have this stuff, and I want to call it green, but I don't know. It is. And this is for non-resident draws that are OTC for residents. And so they're trying to delineate that and train everybody and all that in good form. That's great. But I've had people say, well, I contend they're going to issue exactly what non-residents took last year.

That may be the case, but how do we know what unit they hunted? They can go unit to unit to unit. You can hunt five units. Yeah. Do you get counted in all five of those units if you got surveyed? If you got surveyed. You know, you're going to delineate, you know, which unit you hunted. Where do you spend the most in? Yeah. Whatever. Anyway, interesting stuff. Kind of interesting. Very complex. And this also comes into play. We have guys with 17 points, Bronson. We have specific clients that have done the OTC because they have property, have friends with property, have leases. Hunt the same place every year. And now they're like. They do. And they're killing big bulls. Big bulls. But they don't want to use that as a first choice to use up their 17 points. So they're going to gamble with the second choice. We've warned them profusely that it may or may not happen. Yeah.

And in every terminology we can muster that you're probably, even with your 15 or 16 points, you're probably not going to kill better bulls with those points than you're killing if you just burn them first choice. Just spelled it out. However, it's going to be interesting. And then in the future, you're going to have guys saying, well, I could get a 210 or 201. In the random. In the random. And it truly, they call it the hybrid. Never was really available to non-residents with the exception of before Antelope had non-resident quotas, which isn't the case anymore. So the hybrid never really. We met our quota. We met our quota before the hybrid was even divvied out and it divvied out to residents. And so anyway, shorthand it. Now we do. This is a reality. You could draw randomly in a 210 or 201 because you're in no man's land.

Or you don't want to do a unit 40 with private land up high on the early archery or muzzles. Or you don't want to go try a 49 or a 48 or a 66 or 67 or whatever, right? So it's going to be interesting on the elk side too. It is. It's going to be interesting. And it would make me, I mean, we're trained that if you apply for something and burn your points and then you find out it was 100% second choice, it's going to kind of bum you out. But you're not going to know that until it's done. And if you have minimal points or a handful of points or you have a great place to hard tree elk hunt and you want to make sure you get it, I mean, elk points in Colorado, if you have a modest number or low number, don't covet them. They are nothing to hold on for something in comparison to, say, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, maybe even Wyoming. They're not. I do want to say this.

I think there's better quality on some of these, let's call them the OTCs. There's better quality than what you initially think. Usually you would think this is a Fort Raghorn or five-point type, maybe a five-by-six, a first-year six or whatever. Actually, people care about it because they were hunting pretty decent polts. Yeah. 300 to 330. At times. At times. That's right. And you and I have seen it hunting deer. Yeah, and I think over time in the near future, as people see whatever, in two or three years, see these past OTC units that are now draw, see what the points required to draw, you're going to have people. Some of them are frankly going to be issuing just the same thing that CPW did with deer when they went to draw. Some units are going to give more tags than they should be by accident or whatever. And by accident, they're going to give less than some. Less than some.

And you're going to have some units that ripen fast and you're going to be like, boom. Or they do the aerial surveys and for some reason, they missed a herd of 5,000 in this thick forest. I don't know. And they're going to, whatever. Or just a restricted non-residence more than they should have based on the data they had or their best gut. And that's where the hunting science comes in. That's right. We look at these places that we know were underutilized, underharvested, mismanaged by accident. By accident. That's what it feels like. It has to be by accident. It happened with deer. Yeah. Denison Basin happened completely by accident, I contend. Yeah. And then they also have a very vocal, active sportsman's group down there that don't take no for an answer. And they get ticked, man. But it was awesome until that first winner of 0708 crushed them. And then they said, no more.

We're never being that top heavy with bucks again. And they really haven't. No. And that's trickled around the rest of the state. But they're for a handful of years, unlike anything, probably in our lifetime. No. And the biologists don't want to go back to it. They do not want a winner to happen and have antlers hit the dirt without tags on them. And dead animals through a winner. And I contend, why do we manage for that once in a while type happening? Anyway, whatever. We've beat that one profusely over the years. All right. So we're also going to have some change, Bronson. You know, the sheep, goat, and moose that, you know, they had a, let's call it a janky system. You know, of a weighted bonus point. And nobody could really wrap their head around the value of that. And so some people would opt out of participating in the point system. And I have three points.

It gives me a name in the hat. That's as good as anything. I can't really understand what those points give me. Yeah, it was like, does the random, initial random number that you were generated first, is that, does that trump everything, even though you do get it divided by your weighted points plus one? If it's very low, it can't. I think the contention, I think the contention was that that, that, that number was more important than however many numbers you divided it by. So in essence, in three years, yeah, they're going to be going for, this is for what? Sheep, moose, goat. Sheep, moose, goat. They're going to add your weighted, your three base and your weighted together. You'll have that many bonus points and throw them that many names that you'll have that many random numbers generated in your behalf.

And you'll keep the, most people, it's like the lowest, lowest, highest, whatever, whatever they rank it. But the lowest number, the best number, what do you want to call it? Out of 20, 25 names in the hat. So knowing that's happening also causes people to think, maybe it is worth it to go ahead and buy that point right now. It's a hundred bucks. And in the past, it was like, I don't know how much it's helping. Now, it's still a hundred bucks. It's not easy to part with, but you can see a point system in the future where more names in the hat, like, like we're used to, right? Like we're used to having some kind of mathematical advantage. Like a normal bonus point system indicates. You know, your brain wraps your head around that. So that's coming, something to be aware of as well. If you're, if you haven't been doing that for those three. Kind of interesting.

The other thing we skipped over before we take our little dive, but the other thing we skipped over is this 75, 25 splint across the board for the elk and deer antelope. And so, you know, there was some where it's like, oh, you get 20% here and a, you know, 20, you know, 25 here or whatever. And it changed. It seemed like every other year, every third year it was changing based off of a number of factors. Resident, resident, resident applicant demand over six points, right? Was what, what drove it in the past. Kind of delineated that. Units that dropped down to 20%. Yes. And others that stayed, you know, took less than six, you know, non-resist got up to 35. Yeah. And then you've got landowners involved and things like that. Now it's a straight across the board, 75, 25. I think that's very fair. Oh, geez. I think that's very fair. I'm happy. Overly fair, maybe.

I mean, it makes you feel like, I mean, versus New Mexico doing a 10 and a 6. 6% unguided. 10 guided and residents could jump in on that and 6% of. How about Oregon? Well, okay. So we did the Oregon stuff. Why do we even waste the paper? I do want to say, and residents love it when we talk down about it because they actually have some pretty good bucks for the local knowledge and guys that are willing to work. And I wouldn't mind, do I dare say I wouldn't mind being a resident of Oregon? There's some wild country in Oregon. Logan, do not delete that statement. And to get tagged. I want that played from the Raptors here at some point in the future of this business. Most people would say it's the worst state. Do I say union? I don't even know what that means. It's the worst state in the West to apply for. I'll just call it a nation. Whatever. Union, nation. This beloved union. Okay.

It's the worst to apply for. But honestly, honestly, the bird hunting is off the charts. The desert is amazing. Bronson. What? You've got chuckers in Nevada and Utah coming out of our ears. I mean, I mean. For the first time, it's a 40-year phenomena. Okay. This is not a chukar heaven. It will not happen again for another who knows how long. By the way, where do the chuckers go? It's like cicadas. We have a lot today. And where do they go for this fall? It could be nothing this fall. How does this happen? It's like jackrabbits. They just die. They cycle. Sometimes you can't. You hit 10 of them every time you go down a dirt road in Southwest Desert. Okay, I don't know. And then you don't see one for two years, it seems like. I know. And then they come out of the bushes. And I know it's plague and weird. They come out of the ground. They come out of the ground.

Jackrabbits all of a sudden be everywhere. How does that happen? Disease plague. We were eating good this year. Or last year. On chukar? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There was a lot. And there still is. Right now, I've been out and about and seen a few. It's unbelievable. Yeah. But a guy in Nevada said, he coined it this way. He says, I dang near killed 200 of them over the course of the season. The winter or whatever. You know. Wore his dog out. You know. And he goes. And I said, well, I've heard it's like a once in 20 to 30 years. He goes, it's like 30 to 40. Life. I mean, it's one of those things to behold if you're a chukar hunter. But anyway. Moving on. I think Oregon. For residents. Easy to draw tags. Easy to get tags. Even though they went from, you know, OTC to a limited entry in nature. They're glad when we talk crap on them. Hey. And there's not. Oregon's not just Portland. Okay. Oregon.

There's a lot of wild, crazy country. It's somewhat addictive. I'm going to go out on a limb. It is. It's just. We poo-poo it just because of the stingy non-resident allocation for deer and outfittering. It's terrible. It's the worst. Yeah, 5%. And half of that goes to outfitters. So it's like you really. It's hard to justify. You know. So. A plan. Especially with minimal points. But anyway. Moving right on. That was a digression. That was. A waste. Derailment. And we're only going for 60 minutes. We got. All right. We got 27 minutes. Okay. Well. What else on Colorado? Yeah. Where does that bring us? I guess deer. I mean. We're talking on deer. I mean. We kind of covered the elk changes. Deer. Not a lot of changes. Like I said. The slight season structure change. There's a handful of units. That first season deer. But there's. The third season's added to a nine day. Some people.

I don't know if they. I like it. Pay attention. I love it too. We're used to that. Last cycle. It was back to seven. Gives you two weekends. Or it gives you the option. I guess. If you want to let a unit. Maybe ripen. If you don't have the right kind of weather. Show up and hunt the last five or six days. On a seven day hunt. You don't feel like you have any option. You just got to go on it. But on a nine day hunt. Maybe you show up. You know. Early first part of the week. And hunt the last five or six days. And hopefully get the weather. And the rut starts. And things like that. How deep do we go into some of these options. Because honestly. People could go in and amend their application. And so there is going to be some value to it. But also.

People like it when we don't disclose too much. Because of Epic Outdoors and our membership. And the value there. Well. Being a member. Yeah. If you go out and crush everything. You know. Unit by unit. And species by species. And things like that. Why would somebody. What would the benefit of being a member be. And getting to be able to call in and consult. And get the magazine in your hands. Things like that. Having said that. When it comes to deer. The broken record. Is. It has moderated so much. In Colorado. In the last five or seven years. But would you want to go a year without. No. No. I don't want to. So I'll try to be there somehow. Expectations must be tempered. I do contend we're getting fewer calls. Because I think. Some people are realizing exactly. What we experience is the same. That they're experiencing. But they still want to try to be there. But they realize. Just.

Your points don't equate. To a fantastic deer hunt. In Colorado. They don't. In very few places. Do they equate that. With certainty. They give you an option to hunt a unit. That takes a lot of points. Or takes X number of points. And in some cases. That means. Lower tag numbers. Than other units. With you know. Take zero. One. Two. Or three. And. But. Doesn't mean. Jason. How many people have you talked to. Have you burned 15 to 25 points tonight? That wasn't worth my points. A lot of them. A lot of them. The majority. But I. But I also look at. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. More than. More than half. Say. I didn't see a buck. I felt. Just lackluster. Whatever. You know. It just. You know. It wasn't kind of. What 20 points in Utah would give you. Or 25. Or whatever. Right. Exactly. And so you go. You go to 44. And you've waited. And I don't know if waited is the right terminology.

We're all gaining points in other states too. And so. Yeah. It's happening behind the scenes. I'm looking forward to it. But. But I don't go. It's not like I didn't go hunting for those 25 years waiting. You know what I mean? Yep. And so. But anyway. You go. And then you don't have the right weather. You don't have. Whatever. It's a down year for some reason. It was an amazing year. Last year in 44. I love throwing it out there. Because you can't blow it up anymore than it is. And if you don't have the points. You don't have the points. So anyway. You know. 44 would be a prime example. I had an amazing year. I don't know if it's going to be that amazing this year. Yeah. There was bucks that left over. A lot of times. Left over bucks. But. It takes us. We see that. Every other year cycle. Sometimes we see that. Two years ago was great. Three years ago was great. The year after that.

Pretty average. Last year good again. Are we going to have an off year? Yeah. Possibly. Good. Decent chance. Light winter. You do see that. Colorado. Most of Colorado is more winter dependent. Meaning winter kill is the bigger factor. Versus drought with low farm crops and all that. Like we talk about in southern Utah. Southern Nevada. Northern New Mexico. And Arizona. But. So they had a mild to average winter in most of the state. It's not been. Not been harsh. Fish. So should be good survival. But man. It's hard. Play with a minimum points query. I've told so many people that. I love that feature. Play with that. And do something in it. And just don't be so. Don't fret it. If you want to hunt. And a lot of people seem like they're wanting to do it in these three years. So they can get all their value out of their points. That's their. You know. Intention. But.

If you're a member of Epic Outdoors. Like go. Do yourself just a quick favor. I don't care. Just take a minute. It's hard to take a minute. But go to EpicOutdoors.com. Log in. Then go to the. Drawing odds. Deal with Colorado. And the minimum point query. And we offer that in multiple states. Where you can go to minimum points. Deer. And then plug in. Like if you had four points. I'm plugging in. Two to five. Five gives me. A hundred percent draw with five. But a. A partial. A hundred percent draw with four. But a partial with five. So. If you go click on Logan. Click on that one. Let's see.

No. Scroll down. Scroll down. Let's just. Get into the DMs. Right there. We have. Some of these. We have does loaded. And what not. But anyway. Go to that fifteen fourth. Just. Just throwing it out there. Oh. What a Wyatt. Devin's favorite. Anyway. Scroll down. So. Right there. Is a fifty seven percent with three. But we list it as four. You know what I mean. A hundred percent with four. Fifty seven percent with three. So when I. If I have three. I load in. Two to. Two to four. Yeah. Because. It was a hundred percent with four. But. Yeah. I was in the three point tier. And they're. They're right there. Percentage. Half. Right. A little over half. Got it. Exactly. And so. Anyway. Utilize that. And you go back. Go back. Logan real quick. And you can sort it by the season. So like Adam said. Hey. Ninety. Season on third. I really want to do the. I only can do second. Go to the top.

Or whatever. Click at the top. Over there under unit. Under any. Right there. Right there. Click that. There's the unit. Go over. Click on season. And then. Now. Now they're sorted by season. Go down to all the O3Rs within that point tier. Boom. There's all my O3R options right there. And the points that it took. And I get to scroll through those. And if you wanted. If you really penned in. Penciled into a corner. It's only third season. If you go to the top. You can just check. Check. Under any season. You just go over there. And click the third. O3R right there. And do it right there. And then it will only spit out the thirds. If you don't want to wade through too much. But however you want to do it. O3R is based off of the rigs. Going to the rigs. You'll see the third. On everything normal. DM. O34. O3R. Whatever it is. The O3R. There's all your O3Rs. That's the third rifle.

Third rifle. O2R. Second rifle. O1A is your archery. A normal archery hunt. Not a late archery or anything like that. The September archery. No matter which species. Deer or deer. There's a lot to filter through on that. You know. Either by a unit like you said. Or all weapons. If you're open on anything. What's my best quote value. Out of six points. I'll hunt with any weapon. Just leave it on any. And then pull some of those up. Go click on the DM. DM 051. 03R. Now you click on that. You see that one. Now I've got a map. I can see where it's at. I've got the preference point breakdown. The number of apps. You can go over and see. There's also a second choice option. Like you could go query all the second choices. And gain a point. Don't do that yet. Logan. But I'm just throwing that out. That you can do that. And then you've also got the points needed. You can look at the history.

On some of that stuff. So anyway. Kind of interesting. You can also go and look at. Some of our comments on that. And look how the state in general works. On their point systems. All that can be accessed right here. Of course you can go to the e-mag. Read everything we talk about in Colorado. All from the web. So I love it. Adam and I. We're consulting all day every day. And we're using that. I don't know how many times. I would say. I probably hit this 50 times a day. I want to say. It's a browser. I don't close until April 2nd. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Same with Wyatt. Same with Devin. Same with Josh. We're all using it hard. And you know. Obviously we use it in our own planning too. We got. You know. Between ourselves. And our wives. Kids. In-laws. Whatever. Jason. We got all kinds of options. I mean yeah. Trying to burn points. And they have varying degrees of points.

And you know. For some. My wife. And daughters. You know. That have. Frankly more points. Than me and my son. Because we've used them more recently. Yeah. I'm looking. Maybe use some of them this year. But I. I don't really want to do it in a season. Maybe I'm hoping to find a turn back. Or maybe land or tag in. So I've got to. Only look at certain things for them. So you can filter this all out. All seconds. Or all fours. Or whatever I think. I'm going to try to carve my own time out. And go to Colorado. There's some new hunts. Bronson. And we didn't. We. We listed them in. The verbiage of Colorado. The O1Rs. Never have really offered deer. It's generally. I hate to say globally. The entire state. They may have done 20 years ago. But yeah. Let's say in 20 years. Since they've gone to the new system. They really haven't. O1Rs. So in October 15 to 19. You know. Five day season. This year.

O1Rs. Usually is elk only. Always has been that way. Elk only. No matter if it's an OTC unit. It was a draw. First and fourth. Short five day. Kind of tail end. Early post. First gun on the unit. Now we're dealing with deer. Having some options. In say. Area six. Or 161. Or 61. Or 70. Or just a few of these areas. To spread out. The idea behind it. Was to spread out. Hunter pressure. Congestion. Buck tag numbers. Throughout another season. So you don't maybe have to have. Second and third be quite so heavy. That's right. And so there's some excitement. I mean it's new. Right. New. But it's a. It's slight excitement. I would say. This is a new. Another opportunity. Nobody knows what the odds will be. And so a guy might sneak in. But there's not. Well and you also don't know what tags. I mean. Tag numbers. Don't know that either. If they're going to have 10. Yeah. 20. 50. Yeah.

100 and some of these. I mean it's going to be. And if you're talking like. Oh. Northern part of the state. 161. 6. Some of that country. 17. All. Some of those. Aren't known for really high tag numbers. No. On any season. So it might be. 10 tags. You might have one non-resident tag. Or two. Two. You know. In the drop. And you end up with two. And you got two guys. A pair of guys. 13. 13. And okay. Well that took 18 points. And it should probably take that many. But it. It's not worth that. But that's. So you never know. It could be an opportunity. If you're okay not to drop. You would. You could. But you could try some of those. Having said that. You're right after the muzzle season. Bronson. The deer are smart as they've ever been. They're not really. With the exception of that area. They do migrate. That area. During that time. Yeah. Or just prior. Well in that area. Also.

They have early rifle hunts. That go like September 30th. Yes. To the 8th or 9th. So it's not. And October 1st. Depending on the year. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the first rifle season. Not really the first gun. Yeah. It's not. In 161. Yeah. For a prime example. Some of those. Yeah. Exactly. So. There's a few nuances like that. Other units like 70, 62, 61. All those types of units. It is the first gun hunt. It absolutely is. It is the first gun hunt. But you could hunt muzzleloader. Prior to that. Yeah. I should. I meant rifle. Yeah. No, no. You're right. You're right. It is the first gun hunt. But it doesn't mean they're virgin deer. No. And it's also. It also. That time of year. October 5 to 19. 15 to 19. It's about the time that most deer. They're at the warriest. They have not started to drift anywhere. They've shed velvet of course. They're just acting like big bucks. That's a hard.

Generally that's a hard time. Universally in the West. I don't like it. To hunt a rifle mule deer. I like the summer pattern or rut. I go to Colorado personally. I just want to get lucky. I love to hunt them. That's why we usually hunt later. Because we're hunting our scouted areas in Utah or whatever. Nevada or whatever we can hunt. You know. Closer to us. We hunt those archery and muzzle when we have time to scout. We don't use them. There are guys that hunt early. That do really well. Yeah. Because they make this. They do what we do for Utah, Nevada or whatever early tag we end up with. I'll say even Wyoming high country, whatever, which is going to happen soon. They make Colorado their early hunt state. They can do well. And they do well. Yeah. They do well. And so. Should not be avoided if you have that on your schedule at all. Yeah. Archery and muzzle should not be avoided.

Underutilized in general I would say. By far. Under. Underappreciated. I don't talk about. I don't talk to an early rifle muzzle or archery guy. I probably only talk to one every four days. Yeah. I was going to say 5% of the total calls would be those. Or less. Yeah. Yeah. More archery and muzzleloader. But yeah. Those early rifles are. I don't know. It feels like people just. There's also in September. The whole world opened up for hunting in every state. Archery elk. Most archery deer. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's a lot to compete with in September. It's the whole world is a frolicking hunter's paradise. And it's hard to be everywhere in September. I'm busy right now and I haven't dropped. That's right. You know what I mean? That's why we always joke there should be 60 days in September. You know. So. Yeah. You can get it all in. So. It is. And so anyway. Yeah. Lots.

Lots going on there. And I could make an argument. Colorado deer. If a guy took me down a certain road and said should I do this? I could say yes. And I could come up with an argument. Why? Why? Because it's got the best genetics even though it's got poor age class. Why? Because it's got great age class but poor genetics but you're hunting big old deer that are heavy even if they don't score well. I mean I can make an argument no matter what because each one of these areas in the state and we've hunted a lot of them collectively especially. But even personally Adam you and I. And so I would say you could. I like them for various reasons. There's a lot. I could make an argument for you know even way down south. The Durango country. I mean you could make an argument for about anywhere. And we keep. We're like everybody. We keep searching for that best area that never seems to happen.

Although we have a few of our favorites just because we've had good experiences there. Like anyone. If you kill a 200 inch or somewhere you love the place. You feel like you. Yeah. Right. It's special. You feel like you go do it again. You don't the next time usually. But you. It's familiar country. You learn it. Makes sense. You build on stuff usually the second or third time until something just becomes obvious. This is just. This is circling the drain. I'm out of here. You know. I'm not going to come back. Justin. Case in point. Justin kills a you know a 31 inch you know just boxy beautiful mid 90s. Deer in a unit. I hate it. Okay. For. In my mind it was the lowest on the totem pole for years. Decades maybe. Yeah. You know what I mean. You. You and I know this. Yeah. Like. And then you hear about an. You know. Or. And witness. An uptick in overall age class. Whatever. It's. You know.

Maybe the weather wasn't quite as bad a couple of years ago. 2022. That everybody thought. And skipped over an area. Or whatever. And you have a slight uptick in age. You know. Which we've seen in parts. Between. Wherever. You know. Especially over there along the Utah border. We've seen a slight uptick in age. In some of this stuff. And when we say slight. Doesn't mean it's your next best unit. It's. It's just. The very small bright spots. That we. We've seen. You know. Along the way. Whether it be. Unit 40. Or unit 21. Or 30. Or 22. And all of these units. Of which we've hunted. You know. 61 seems pretty steady. Eddie. Yeah. Well. Some of those like that. They've had a different form of management. Through a lot of years. Very. I don't want to call it conservative. But very. I guess. Constant. Haven't had huge fluctuations. Like you look at the Gunnison Basin numbers. They go.

They've gone up. Then they crash after winter. Yeah. Then they bring them all back. Some of those. You know. Western Colorado units. You know. Call them like. You know. 10. 21. 30. 40. 61. 61. 70. They just kind of stayed the same. But. So. As deer maybe have done. Better in a few years. They don't always increase tags to the same level. But then. You know. There's other units like that. That maybe they have the limited. You know. Some units have limited entry for elk. And that's appealing. Just so you know. They're not all over the county. Yeah. If you have limited entry elk. You just have less people on the landscape. That's all. Like we're seeing. We hunt 10. Spend some time. 10. 21. 22. All of that country right there. Even 11 to 11. Wyatt's favorite. But anyway. And they rut early. 10. The lack of pressure. And the second season felt like mid-rut. Well. And you remember on the elk.

They hunt like. What is it? October 10 to. 1 to 11. Yeah. Then they don't have a second and third rifle elk. For bulls. They may have some cow hunters. But you know what I mean. Yeah. They don't follow the same bull hunting. Second. Third. And fourth. In units like that. Right. No. So I think that the slight absence. Not even slight. The absence of a bunch of elk hunters crushing the place. And the book cliffs is kind of the same way. They've kind of rut early on that side too. You know. Of Utah. It's just. Maybe it's just something in that region. But you know. It's probably somewhat pressure related too. In units like that. And people are like. Yeah. But these mid-November hunts. Do you ever experience hard rut? I would say. We very rarely experience hard rut. I can tell you in 10 we experience hard rut. Early. Not even on a third or fourth. Yeah. Second. Yeah.

Not even on a third or fourth. Hard. So that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about fourths. I mean. We rarely spend time on fourths. Even on fourths. Some years man. You don't get. It's pretty average. We witnessed a little. You know. But yes. And third. Man. Third. We hunted the last day of the third last year. And I've heard this from a couple different people. We saw. I would say a significant rut. Because all the people were gone. You know what I mean? It was the end of the season. Plus it's the last day of the season. Deeper in November. Yeah. But then the people are gone. And they just let their guard down. They feel it. I feel it. As much as we see it. We're down. We're heading home. The deer feel it. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's less. In the dark. There's less headlights. Tail lights. Slammings of doors. Everything. It just. It's that time of year.

Toilet paper. Whatever. Hundreds of things. Exactly. Yeah. So anyway. But all of that country. We spent a lot of time in that country. All the stuff around Eagle. You know. Still given. Too many tags. But there's. There's hope for the future. Depending on tag levels. All the Eagle. Around Eagle. All the stuff around. Walden and up north. You know. There was a lot of significant. You know. Winter weather. Craig to Walden. Craig to Fort Collins country. You know. Just a lot of significant weather. 2022. 23 winter. You're talking. Yeah. It was a big one. Up there. And you know. And then. Slide south to Gunnison. And Swatch. And over to San Juan County. Or Dolores County. We've been there. In 20 years. We've covered a lot of stuff. Carter. All the. All the 18s and stuff. Not hearing great things. But there are guys that won't leave all of that country.

Because they had great experiences at some point. And they know it well enough. The three deer that are alive. That are old. They could. They could find one. They'll find one. You know. And tags have been slashed. So. It's. It's bound at some point. Somehow. You feel like to make a. A rebound. With the tag slashing that's going on. But. It's yet to. It's yet to happen yet. I love the tag slashing. Like. We can talk about that with Colorado. Or Nevada. When we see these. Significant slashes and tags. The year before. The year before. All of a sudden. DWR realizes the game is back. If you have a tag. And you're one of the few guys on the landscape. It's an amazing hunt. Yeah. Whether it be Nevada's case. Drought. Is cut tags. Or Colorado. Usually is winter. Winter. Winter kill. Cuts tags. But either way. Before they say. Oh. We got plenty of bucks to start. Yeah. Let's start drinking. It's.

Got to time it right. You don't want to be the guy. That's trying to get in there. After the. It was. After it was a phenomenal year. And they crushed a bunch of big bucks. Because usually. The. The point creep happens. And also. It's just like. Point creep. 44. You just don't duplicate. Back to back. To back. Awesome years. In units. Very often. And hunter surveys. You know. Basically indicate. An increase in hunter satisfaction. And all of those things. And the division of wildlife resources. In each and every state. Look at all that. And then. That goes into making tag recommendations. In addition to. Survey data. And all the other. You know. Science based data. That they use. And so. Anyway. Quite. Quite interesting. Kind of fun. And I think that's where the hunting science. Comes in. Is. In the past. You could say. Well. This is where I hunt. Me and my family. We hunt. Pine Valley.

That's what we do. You know. And nowadays. You're going. Okay. Where. Where are the hot spots. Because that's not always going to be good. Because. No. They don't want it to be good. They're not managing it for that. They're managing it for. Maximum take. And still having. The does get bred. And so. And so. If you're a trophy hunter. You have to. Be mobile. And you have to be able to. Look around. And be willing to. Try new units. That are seeing an uptick. An uptick in quality. Or age class. And that's what I think we're. Yeah. Pretty good at. We've done over the course of. Decades now. Yep. And sometimes. But also. We. Sometimes use our best. Judgment. Wisdom. Hunting science. And then you guess. Like. That. That. I ain't going back there. Sometimes that happens too. You don't nail it every time. No. But. You've got to be willing to go out. And do some. Yeah.

I don't want to get into the. Those bad examples. But. But just. Safe to say. We learn from our mistakes. And move on. Do something different. But. Just don't do it twice. Yeah. What else do we got to. Tell about Colorado. Where are we at. Logan on time. We got. 55 minutes. We're done. I think. Yeah. I think Adam. Let's talk. Well. Okay. We can keep going in Colorado. Or we could talk about. The weather in Utah and Nevada. And this timely moisture. That we've been getting on. We get a lot of questions on that too. Yeah. Because it goes. It goes into people's hunting strategy. If I'm going to do that. I won't do this. Yeah. Should I. Should I put more emphasis on southern Utah. Ponds. Oaks. Nevada. Or. Or should I not. And put more emphasis over here. Yeah. Or even Wyoming. Yeah. So I think. The weather here dictates what people are doing too. You know. It is.

And I'm sure in a week or two. Well. We are going to do a. More of a dedicated podcast. Say. Utah. Nevada. But. But. We have had. Much better. Timely moisture. And good ones. Over the last three to four weeks. And with. And maybe another one. Coming this next week. Now. Is that going to. Fill reservoirs? No. Is it going to maybe. Just green up feed at the perfect time. And if we get more. Continue that. It definitely could. And it could lead to good. Good antler growth. It was definitely a super mild winter. Super mild is a way to. Spin. Drier than. Dry. Dry. Dry. Extremely dry. But. 40 year. Yeah. Dry. But. But I mean. They went into the. In the winter in good condition. We're. We're optimistic. I guess. At this point. We obviously have till. What. May 7th for Nevada. April 24th to apply for Utah. So we got some time to assess that. But I guess we're cautiously moving forward.

We're a little bit of optimism. Where a month. A month and a half ago. It was bleak. But we have had some decent storms. The sky was falling. Yeah. In January for me. Yeah. It was. My favorite stuff. Your favorite stuff. Some of our stuff locally. There was just no. No end in sight. And the. The NOAA predictions. Were bleak. You know. The weather patterns looked bleak. And everything else. And all of a sudden. The rain started coming. And then just overall. Just overcast. Cool days. All of those things. Got warm this week. But it's. It's normal this time of year. We get that. But then it's going to be right back next week. Cold. Seasonal temperatures again. But. Had some really wet snow. Really wet snow storms in southern Utah. Even Nevada. Lots of people around Ely and other places. Talking about their snow till sites. Being 120. 140 percent of normal. In certain parts. From Ely north.

Which is. Which is good. And that. That. You know. That area. Usually does have some high mountains. So it can capture snow. That the valleys don't always either. But. We have some optimism. Where there wasn't much. A month and a half ago. So. Anyway. Yeah. The timely moisture. April and May is super critical for deer. The elk. You know. Like here in Utah. I mean. Hey. We're going to have good elk hunting. Nevada is going to have good elk hunting. Even dry years seems to be just fine. You know. Arizona not necessarily the case. No. Certain units in Arizona. I would say. Like. But you know. There. It's all high desert. There's no green grass. There's. Yeah. It's lackluster. You get some of these units in Nevada or Utah. They can eat the valley floors. And then move up. And just kind of follow the green up to 10, 12, 13,000 foot high country. And they can still just kind of keep green.

Yeah. At different phases through the year by doing that. We're in a high desert environment and it's the summer and winter and all is the same. You don't have green grass. You don't have it. You don't have it. That's right. It doesn't come anywhere in the unit. So. It's different. Definitely. So. And then Nevada. You know. They can eat on all kinds. They have different options. And. You know. Dry years. There's been great bulls. So anyway. But the deer. Nevada. Southern Utah. Arizona. New Mexico. New Mexico too. We've been concerned about. We're kind of. It's kind of exciting. I'm not saying. It's probably an average year or whatever. But. Maybe even slightly less than average. Who knows. But. Elk. I like. We like New Mexico. I don't know why we get excited applying for it. You look at the odds. They're terrible. New Mexico. Yeah. We're talking. One in 150. And we're like.

So you're saying I got a chance. I got way for the draw results. We've killed. We've said it before. We've killed a few of our best bulls down there. And on tags we shouldn't have drawn. Let's keep it real. That's why we kind of like it. Yeah. It's hit. You've hit a couple home runs. I've hit one. Really good one. And. And on tags you shouldn't draw. But you did. I mean Pollock drew a tag last year. He had no business drawn down there. So it's. When it happens. He had no business drawn. No. I mean. The only non-resident unguided tag. He's drawn some stuff. Anyway. But. Well. Anything we else want. I do want to give one quick shout out. We've kind of been coming at you hard. And this is getting into that phase of the year. Where it's. There's a lot coming. I would just want to impress upon you all. That are members. To. On page nine of the April magazine. We've.

We have our tentative application schedule. And we've kind of have that spelled out. So you can just look real quick. At. What's due. In order. All the way. All the way through. Love it. March. April. May. June. July. Kind of keep it in order. You could. Take a picture of it. Put it in your calendar. Whatever you want. But. April magazine. E-mags out there. Been out there for a week or ten days. The. The paper mag should be showing up here. Very soon. Very soon. Page nine in there. But go to that. Use it often. And use it. Just kind of. To cross stuff off. To kind of see stuff coming. Over the next two months. It's kind of come out. You're really hot and heavy. There's a lot coming up. A lot. It's fun. It's fun. Spring's out there. I. I. Opened the door. I. I went outside. I opened the door. What did I hear? Birds chirping. I love that. The older you get. They're coming back.

I don't know what it is. I don't know what. It's like you and rainbows. It's like. And I. And I throw that out in jest at them. When you see a rainbow. You know. The world's not ending at the moment. When you hear the birds chirping. We're going to. We're enjoying another spring. And the older you get. The more value you put on waking up in the morning. And making the most of today. Or this year. Absolutely. The next few years. I know fees are increasing in Utah. They came out. We. We're not in favor of that. I. I. I also want to say. It's not the end of the world. And. And. And Utah. It initially come out. And here we are in another subject. That we're going to wrap this freaking podcast up. But anyway. That was a maximum. And. Took the DWR by surprise. Took us by surprise. No. It's a reflection on us. And we. We're not in favor of it. And it's. So it shouldn't be. But anyway. They're.

They're working on it. It may not be at the max. It's not the end of the world. You should apply this year. Yeah. Well. Yeah. And they've. You know. They're. They've got to go back to legislature now. Present some. I guess. Some. Some data. Something to them. Just. Indicating maybe some of the ramifications. Of what is just a unilateral. Maximum. A hundred percent increase. Everywhere. Doubling fees. Everywhere. Could do. That's still. Schedule. I think it was. To be signed in mid-May. By the governor. But that could be. Some of those things. Some of the. Fees in there. Whether they be application fees. Or general season deer and elk fees. They could be tempered. Who knows. The division is very aware. Of what that. The intention was to raise more money. For division wildlife. To buy critical. You know. Habitat. Winter range. Whatever. And so. The intentions were good. But there are some.

You know. Legislature may have had some unintended consequences. Like we joked. You know. The rats from a sinking ship principle. If non-residents feel like they're going to have to pay four or five hundred bucks to maintain their points every year. And apply. And that's excessive. We agree. That is excessive. And thirty something. Thirty two. Thirty five dollars. Whatever it ends up being with all the incidentals. And your credit card fees. And fourteen thousand other things. The non-refundable fees to apply when you can do all the species. And we have a lot of them here. Yeah. Well. Especially non-residents can do all of them. Yes. We don't. But they can do. I don't know. Eight or ten. Whatever it is. Oh. You heap it on. Yeah. I mean. You're a lot of money. Yeah. Okay. And then you do it for women and children. That's again. Going to tax a guy. Probably ought to have a. You know.

A significant job. And I. And I get it. So there's going to be some curtailing of applications. Stay tuned. We'll see what the final is. Yeah. It is for us in Nevada. But for me in Nevada. I'm careful. You start. You start doing that. And add the silver states. You can be three. Four hundred bucks. P. And a partridge in a pear tree. And a coyote fee. And incidental. Chuckers. Geez. You know. Just duck decent. But. All right. So anyway. Yeah. As we get going. I guess. Part of that. I want to just say. Wasn't the general. Let's just say this. Just for an example. Wasn't the general deer tag fee. Like going to be over $800. For a non-resident. Whatever the double was. I don't have the fee right in front of me. I think spike elk tags. Were going to be like $1,200. Okay. That's excessive. Right. Like. I'm not even interested. Right. But I would pay. I would pay. The non-resident fee.

For a general deer tag. And I'm one of the most critical guys. There is for general deer. Like. I don't think it's being managed correctly. I think they could do a better job. I think we do want better. As a people. As a bulk of the hunting community. Here in southern Utah. But. But having said that. Yeah. What was it? It's well over. It's going to be in the mid-Age. 400 and something. Well it's 418. Last year. 418. Yeah. So it's going to be pushing 850. Yeah. And so anyway. But would you pay it Bronson? Yeah. I would. Yeah. I would too. And I guess that's my point is. I think all states can increase their resident fees a little bit. I'm not saying go gouge them. But people get whine over a $5 increase in Idaho or whatever. Lay off. Freaking. Yeah. Good grief. Catch up with the times. That's part of it. And having said all that. We don't agree with what's going on with the non-resident.

The treating of non-resident. Just an arbitrary double overnight. That doesn't make sense. I don't think it's going to end up that way. Give Utah just a little slack. Let's let this settle. The car's working on it. Yeah. And anyway. Having said that. Again. Going back to a lot going on. You know. Apply. The Montana Darren Elk. If it makes sense. Do it. Otherwise do points in the summer. Colorado. Everybody should be applying. Utah April 24th. Everybody should be applying. Kansas. Eh. Up to you. If you want to. There's an opportunity for you. With one point. You've got a guaranteed draw. There's a backup plan for some people. So anyway. And then April 30th. We come on with Wyoming sheep goat moose bison. Idaho sheep goat moose. May 1st. Montana sheep goat moose bison. As Adam mentioned earlier. May 7th. Nevada. May 15th. Oregon. May 28th. Washington.

I don't know why we got that on the list. But hey. We do. If we're going to put Oregon. Bronson. Might as well put Washington. All right. Might as well. So anyway. And on down the list. And so. We're cranking it out. Looking forward to scouting. Shed hunting a little bit here and there.

Do we have anything else? No. I think that's good. Good wrap up. Today. Logan. Appreciate you sharing your experiences with us on your finger. Middle finger. Good luck. Good luck killing that up. I'd put. I'd put. Hey. You know. Maybe this gal using that. She's got a lot of energy. Right. She's got a lot of pent up energy. How could you get good use out of that? Like. Put her to work. Maybe there's a labor intensive job out there. I'm giving her waypoints and 10 trail cameras. This is what I'm doing. Hey. Exactly. That's a good idea. It is a good idea. Okay. What about a gas card? Have you gone that far? Would you give her a gas card? Pounding a T post here. It depends on what's on the trail camera. Maybe it's like a later reimbursement if there's good stuff. Yeah. Maybe it's. Yeah. Maybe we incentivize it. Yeah. You know. The results. Finders fee. You find good stuff.

You can have your gas back. Here's a base fee for just running the cameras. Would you ever let her take. Yes. I like that. Would you ever let her take your truck? Oh. I don't know that we're there yet. Would you give her a coyote gun? Oh. Yeah. Anybody can have a coyote gun. Yeah. If there's a coyote. You've got to take all the chances. Okay. She might have another date coming. Huh? Yeah. We'll see. If I'm. Yeah. And then you're going to have to test. We'll see if she listens to this podcast or not. Yeah. You're going to have to test her on if like she divulges secrets when they. Because sometimes gals just talk and they. Oh. Where's your husband? Ah. He's over in such and such. Just crushing the place. You know. And you're like. Okay. Bump the brakes. Next time. Yeah. Next time the answer is. I'm fishing. I don't recall. I don't recall. I don't recall. I don't recall. I do.

I do not recall. I don't know where he's at. I can never keep track of him. What were those sayings that we love? The do not recall. And there was one other one. I can't remember what it is. Anyway. There's some favorites around here. That's for sure. Let's just say they've been coached. Yeah. Now. Oh. Our gals. You've been with them for 30 years. Nobody even asks. You've got some coaching. When you're our age. The gals don't even get asked. They still ask. But they just know. There's no divulging. You think I could keep up with where he's at. Come on. And I contend you're not liable in the hereafter for lying about hunting. You're just not liable for that. Right? It's different. It's a different section. It's a different lie. Yeah. All right. Whatever. Okay, everybody. Hey. Have a good week. Good weekend. Get applied. Let's face it.

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