EP 346: What's Really Going On With Utah Big Game Management and Upcoming Big Game Applications Overview

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, brought to you by Fierce Firearms. Epic Outdoors choice for custom hunting rifles.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, and of course we've got Josh Pollock. How you doing, Josh? Really good. Really, really good, of course. Got some new announcements. Excited to dive into that. Logan, how are you doing? I'm doing good. Good. How's... Still got a splint? I'm still broken. Still broken? Still dating the same girl? No. She moved on. She needed a hatchet thrower. Needed somebody with all ten fingers. She needed a Viking to protect her. And you were not at it. I wasn't it. I'm just going to say that prompted a question, Carter. That might be a way for ladies and women to go fill out their, quote, man, to go to one of them rage rooms. And if they don't perform up to whatever standard they think, a freaking protector, a provider, you know... Man in the 21st century. Gladiator should be like, they're out. Hit the weights hard.

If you're a lady in our day and age and you're, you know, wanting a protector or something, what are you going to do, Bronson? Like, how would you pick a man to take care of you? Okay, let's keep it real. How do you... What do you think a lot of these women are picking based on? Oh, they're just... Bank account?

Okay, yeah. That's what I'm picking based off bank account. I don't know what they're picking off of. Well, I don't know what they're doing. I think evolutionarily... Luckily, they don't think straight when they're that young. Yeah. Well, and evolutionarily, we're animals just like animals we talk about all the time. The biggest, strongest, baddest, meanest, that was evolutionary. You wanted that for your... You did. Your lineage is a human being. You did. I don't know how much they're picking on. Now it scares him. Now it's scary.

He's scary. He's a little too macho. Yeah, he's a little too much for me. I don't know. He'd probably be abusive and abuse my kids. You never know. But anyway, well, she moved on. You moved on, right? Yeah. Off you go. Right down the line. Yeah. We're good. You have nothing to prove, Logan. No. There's so many fish in the sea, Logan. Yeah. Every once in a while your line breaks, you'll be all right. Some of them are rock fish. I mean, just carp and stuff like that. That's right. All right. Well, we're moving way past that. Anyway, I want to thank Fierce for sponsoring this podcast. They're sponsoring everything we're doing here at Epic Outdoors. Got a great relationship with them. Actually going to have a podcast with them. Yeah. Very soon. A lot of new stuff. Yeah. Come on. Next week or two, probably. Yep. I hope so. So, anyway, we had Devin. He's been out of the office for a minute.

Of course, we're going to get into that. All his personal life details once he gets back in. Figure out where the heck he's been. But anyway, appreciate Fierce. All they got going. Of course, they've got a long-range shooting school they came out with. All-inclusive. Three nights at the Mogul Ranch. Day one is classroom and range. Day two, range and competition. $19.95 per person. You're going to learn a ton. Long-range shooting school here in Utah. Give them a holler at 435-462-0040. 435-462-0040. www.fiercearms.com. Fiercearms.com. And go from there. So, today, Bronson, we've got a lot to talk about. Josh, talk about some of the states and things that's happening. There's a lot going on in April. It feels like our busiest month. I don't know if it is, but between March, April, and May, it's no joke. Yeah, it's nice to get April 1 by us with Montana, Colorado.

But, I mean, there's just as many of them now that opened up and even more. How about the states that are like, hey, don't forget us. And it's like four weeks away. It opens up, and a week later, they're like, yay, you haven't bought your license yet. What if? Back off. All right. Back off. I've got four weeks. Yeah, just chill out. I like to be on top of the file. What if there's some sort of secret code, though, in those emails? Like, if you apply today, your application means more. Oh, geez. It would be, hey. Just saying. That's a $500 idea. Trigger. Trigger. They should pay you for that idea. Yeah. You know, what if you got an extra name in the hat for applying within the first week? Within a trigger? Didn't the code do that for a year or two? Do some, like, early bird incentives? Well, I think they actually paid people off, right? Like, optics, cash prizes. That's what I mean.

Well, wasn't it Arizona that's coming out with these cash? Or early birds and all that? That was on the. That was on the. On the Conservation First USA raffles and stuff. They did some of those dailies and the old version. Whatever they were called. And it got you to apply. I remember. You were like, I'm in for the early bird. Well, what did it do? It taught you to wait to the end because they throw a thousand bucks a day or whatever. Dailies. Might as well just wait them. Kind of like some of our conservation organizations. When you actually go and at the very end you can buy lots of extra tickets for a certain amount of dollars. Yeah. You know what I mean? Kind of double down. I just watched a documentary on that Forrest Fenn guy that buried $3 million worth of gold out in Wyoming somewhere and did this treasure hunt. It took people like 10 years to find it. And they found it?

And he always had these little clues every little interview and stuff he did. Oh, yeah. Found it. Send me a link to that. Was it true? Was it real? Oh, yeah. Was there millions of dollars in there? Oh, yeah. There was. And then a guy that was looking for it. I'm not going to spoil it. I'll send it to you. It was actually pretty good. Let's just say there's another one out there still. What? Yeah. So I'm saying maybe there's some clues with these wildlife. You know who would be good at that? Wyatt. I'm thinking I'm going to send it to Devin and maybe that's where he's at now. I don't know. Okay. He might be. I have a feeling he ain't leaving the house. Maybe the bunker. Whatever the bunker. Out on the strip. Bigger dealings. Yeah. So maybe that's what this is. They send out those emails and the first five people that apply get random tags. I don't know. Just saying. Come on, guys. Hey.

Let's keep it real. I like this apply in the first week idea. That's another Wyatt principle. We're going to pitch that to him now. That's another Wyatt principle. You're on top. Either your last one and you go on top or the first one stays on top, depending on if they flip it like this when they start drawing. Sometimes Wyatt applies early, like the Copper State. Okay. Do you guys know what the Copper State is? Guess where the Copper State is? No. I thought it was always the Grand Canyon State. I thought it was too. Or whatever, but apparently they coined this new little. I always thought it was Quartzite. I don't know. I just. Anyway. Yeah. They coined it the Copper State, right? Yeah. So did you get your application in for the Copper State draw, Bronson? Sure. Would you apply for it? Just. There were six. I just gave them. Did them all. Give them $90 and say do good things with it.

Doesn't count against your bag limits, your points. That's right. Might as well, right? Yeah. Coos deer in August. Nothing sounds more fun. I did have a legitimate question on that because I had a note tag show up in the mouth two days ago. And I mean, the good thing is. Yeah, that's right. Those are probably showing up. They did show up. Got it. I didn't see you put that on the gram. You know, it didn't happen if you didn't put it on the gram. Some people like parts of their life in private. I saw some people throw it up on the gram. Did they? Yeah. Okay. Probably can get personal information off of there and log into their account now. Ah, guy threw it on the gram. Ah, guy? I think with these copper states, though, like it's legitimate. We've known a lot of guys that have drawn those. We offered them like $14,000 in gifts and prizes to be able to, and never had one come

out of the woodwork. I think we should give them the direction to where that gold's buried and just say, hey, we'll give you those free of charge. We'll do all the research and tell you where it is if you just call us with a tag. And we still won't hear from anybody. We've said it last year. Why give them anything? The first year or two, we knew a couple people. We actually don't want to give them anything. I'm ticked. Yeah, we're done. Done with the game. No more games. Yeah. But seriously, if you do draw this copper state, let us know. Call Jason. It'd be interesting. I would love to know. I might even shadow you in the woods. See what kind of animal we can drum up. I don't know. It'll be kind of interesting. John, welcome. Hey, hey. A little late. How's it going, John? Good. I come in to shadow you in the woods. I'm a little scared. No, we're just talking about it.

Who were you shadowing downtown? What do you got? Projects? I was just picking up my truck. Yep. Best truck you ever bought. Best truck I ever bought. What'd they do to it? Oh, Kate had borrowed it for her farm work. Good. Number one rule. Buy a vehicle that all kids can have at will and never lend them your fave. Right? Yep. All right. We're going to remedy that soon. She's looking for a truck. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Anybody who's got a truck out there, three-quarter ton gas or, oh, 2000 to 2004 Chevy. I thought Wyatt had one, but then some other things happened. He's not selling his yet. The old Tuddy. He's going to keep it for a while. Yeah. He had some other purchases that weren't expected. So, that caused him to reconsider. All right, Bronson. Let's dive into what we're really going to dive into. Well, probably just, he just probably applied, what he probably really did is applied to New

Mexico and had, you know, six, eight G's on his credit card. Yeah. You know? Yeah. If you do it just right, you got basically, it's a cycle and a half off a card or cycle and a week, you know, or whatever. But this time of year, they're kind of adding up. I don't know if he ended up pulling the trigger on Montana deer or elk. There's another 1,200 or 1,400 depending on what he did. He's pretty contemplative. Oh, yeah. That's why, that's a word for it. He sat and waited for me to do my New Mexico application, looking over my shoulder all day, and then just to make sure he was on top of the pile of mine. Yes. And then he referenced your application later and we're like, he does not miss anything. He's waiting to see, like, you know, if you put a draw four down, that's when he's going to put his down. Right on top of that. And the next dude takes eight. Draw fuck. Skip.

Like, he's going to trump you. Yeah, he is. But no. Well, I guess it's April. So, let's talk about what's due in April, Carter. Probably the biggest one that's kind of on front burner right now is our illustrious state of Utah. Yeah, since Colorado came and went, thankfully. Yeah. I like Colorado, though. We do. But it's also great when it's over. It is. It is. But it's kind of fun. And it was the first this year. I think we've already looked. Next year isn't like the seventh, just because of the way it's the first Tuesday usually. So, this is caught up on us a little bit. It was the first is as early as it gets. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm looking forward to gain in a week. It's kind of like daylight savings. I'm next year. A week is way more significant than an hour. Yeah. Way more. But anyway. Yeah. Montana deer and elk came and went. Glad that came and went, too. Mm-hmm. That was stressful.

Lots of explaining that convoluted draw system for people that only want big bulls with the bull. How about the guys that got the upland game pheasants and all that? And they went and pre-purchased that. And it caused them to not be able to apply in the draw for the actual elk and deer general. So, then they had to get a refund for that so they can go back in. Be careful. Those are some projects. When you're pointing and clicking your way to, you know, get a good elk or deer hunt, make sure what you're clicking on. That's an awesome state for our opportunity and being able to, you know, somewhat, if you work the system, you can really work the system there and have a tag on a regular basis. But it doesn't come without a few headaches. So, anyway, glad that's over. Regarding the general you're talking to. Yeah. Deer and elk general.

And even some of the limited quota or special elk tags, you can get them every single year if you're going outfitted, you know, but on private land. That's right. Yeah. We're glad that those are over with, but just brings another front burner. Brings us to Utah, Kansas, Wyoming sheep, goat, moose, bison, and Idaho sheep, goat, moose. That's what's up for the month of April. So, dive in. Let's start this thing. Let's talk about Utah. Well, we filled a lot of calls regarding this, you know, legislative fee increase in Utah, what it's going to mean. You know, we were telling people, just pump the brakes slightly. What you saw was statutory maximums that the legislature passed. Knew that the division was working with them to go through maybe some, I guess you'd call them unintended consequences of just flat, universal doubling everywhere. And, yeah.

A little bit offensive if they double right off the bat. But, yeah. We've been there when sometimes we've held our $100 membership fee and finally you have to have an increase and it's not a gradual thing because you don't want it. I hate the nickels and dimes. Well, Colorado does it based off the consumer price index. Posts it in the Denver Post on whatever month and day of the year. On the leap year of such an angel. During a summer equinox, you know, with the Halley's Comet, the furthest away from us. Right after the most recent president election. You know, I mean, it's just like, jeez. And so every time it goes up to a nice round number, you know. That's about it. $478.26 or something. It's never. Well, and they'll increase like some kind of random little stamp of 23 and a half cents. You know. They don't even make pay. It's based on a percentage.

So it's like every year it goes up just a weird little. But anyway. So once in a while when you have a change, here comes the big change, right? Yeah. Well, this came from the legislature. Most of the time, the Division of Wildlife in Utah. Well, probably a lot of states. I don't know. But Utah at least. When they see budgetary, you know, things cost them or whatever, they usually take it through the rack and the board process and get it approved. And then they have to go find a sponsor because with license fees, that does have to get ratified and approved by the state legislature. But it usually goes that route. This one came the other way with, I guess, maybe some good intentions in mind with, you know, raising more money for, you know, being able to acquire property, wind range, things like that, which on the outside sounds good and fine. But there are some unintended consequences.

Probably the biggest was the threat to, hey, we're going to double our license and application fees. And, you know, that's the fees that non-residents pay every year, essentially, unless you play the two-for-game, which we'll get into that in a minute on the hunting license. But that's the non-refundable fees you pay every year, which really is what we kind of all use as a barometer of, ugh, how warm and fuzzy are we about applying in some states? You know, you weigh out drawing odds versus what I pay for those drawing odds or chance to get tags or whatever versus the limited, the once-in-lifetime tag fees. I don't know that hardly anybody's scared off by any of those, or in most cases, the limited entry quality deer and elk tag fees. You pay them as a non-residents. You're going to pay them once or twice in your life. You don't even have to front them. No.

And so these are just fees that are not even, they don't even apply to you until you actually draw a tag. Sometimes for decades. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, they cost more than they would have if you'd have drawn. We've got guys with 27, 8 points right now, and they cost a lot more than if they'd have drawn 25 years ago, but everything does. So, I mean, even though a lot of those didn't quite double. You can't go to Taco Bell without spending $15 on your own. What do you mean? Taco Bell closed in our town because it was losing money. It's gone. So, like, there's shows. Taco Bell? It did? Oh, time. Sorry. Okay, yes. Sorry. I'm like, I just got a 12-pack. Taco time. Sorry. This is the most amazing food on the planet. But, I mean, and that thing's right next to the high school. If you can't make money on a taco stand within a walking distance of high school. Taco time, that's true.

Something's not right. Yeah. We don't have enough restaurants in this town. If you went and tried to go get lunch at 12, 1230, it's a problem. Anyway. But regarding the permit fees, yeah. Like, so, yeah, they went up, and they went. So, the division met with the legislature, and a lot of these were reduced. I think almost everything. Reduced from the original doubling. The flat doubling. Even if it was a, let's say on these, like, elk and sheep and something. A slight reduction. Nevertheless, not a full double. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're still about $3,500 to $4,000 for the once-a-lifetime if you draw them. Which is a lot of money. No question. But there's states that are that higher, higher already. That's right. For some of them. I mean, what's Wyoming bison? Like $6,000. Arizona's like $5,000. Exactly. You know, sheep in New Mexico are $3,200, $3,200.

Like I say, most people, if you're applying for sheep, you have to be, most states are $2,000 or more. I mean, so, yeah, these are a little bit higher. Limited entry elk in Utah, just under $2,000. Limited entry deer, depending on if you're doing the, limited entry is just over a grand. If you do premium, it might be just over a couple. Premium, say, Henry's or Ponce. Oh, yeah. You're in the $2,260. Well, that is a, that's a multi-season. Yeah, that's a multi, excuse me. The premium, limited entry. It's $1,400. Looks like. $1,398. Looks like. And then the premium, limited entry, multi, the most degree is $2,300. That's like a, for Ponce Gant, they gave a tag for that this year. And you could look at that and say, I'm never applying in Utah again. Okay. We're talking once in your life, and you're not even applying for that multi-premium. You're not even, most guys are not applying.

The first year they even made a tag available in the draw, to my knowledge. The Ponce Gant has one tag. The Henry's doesn't. So this is the first year. Nobody's ever applied for that before. The fees that really make a difference are the non-refundable each and every year. And we're talking the non-refundable, non-resident hunting license went from $120 to $144. Okay. Not egregious. It's still lower than. Your point, or your application fee went from, let's just call it $16, you know, $16 to $21. $21 per specie. Not the end of the world. And you have to remember, I mean, that's still cheaper than Arizona, still cheaper than Nevada. And hey, we balance all this same thing, too. But the other thing about Utah that we preach often is there's still a state that you can get a twofer on if you do it right. So really, that $144 cut that in half if you're smart about how you apply.

You have to have a current hunting license when you apply, but not necessarily when you hunt. Yeah. Yeah, your tag basically becomes your license. Yeah. It's a little bit weird that way. Yeah. But yeah, you're looking at $72 for a license. If you plan it right. If you plan it right. And apply two years on that one license, which you should be doing if you're not. And I was doing that, and then my kids, my wife and children, they like to turkey hunt. Or fish. Then you go fish. You're going to lay around. And here I am. I'm like, we have to have a valid hunting license year-round. Yeah. So finally, I got ticked, and I did the five year. Yeah. It is for a resident, you need it. Because yeah, you go fishing one time to Lake Powell, and you get- And you know my kids- And you kind of wants to throw a pole in. Oh. Just because everybody else is catching fish. Let's clarify. Well, I mean-

She doesn't want to throw a pole in. Well. But she wants to go with the family. The whole family activity. Well, that's what I mean. But if everybody's got a fish on, and she's going to want to grab a pole. She does. And right then, you're in that moment, Jason. Well, even if I hand her my pole- Don't touch the pole. I hand her my pole, and she's jigging. And then we get whatever. Officer, you know, my best friend. You can't mentor her your fishing license. Here they come. Yeah. Here they come. Well, I have a lifetime, and she was doing me a favor. I had to drive the boat and be safe. I'm one of those infamous lifetime license holders that everybody hates. Yes. I'm one of the haters. How about you? No, absolutely. But how about this? They've been working off the interest of my money for years. They spent that 500 bucks the first year.

I'm going to be that old guy that's going to come to guys like John Peterson, the young Johns, and I'm going to say, young John, I'm 80 years old. I need more. I'm about to die. And young John's going to say, Jason, you've had all the opportunities in the world. You have way more than we have now. So true. Through your whole life. Anyway, I'm that guy. Lifetime. Bronson, how do you feel? Lifetime license holder. How do you feel? Feel great. You abused the system. Well, I mean, hey. If people didn't do it in 1992 or three, wherever that stopped. Where would the division be right now? Well, no. I'm just saying, if you weren't born yet, I'm sorry. You didn't have the chance. But if you were alive and you had the opportunity and didn't do it, I don't really have anything to say. There has to be some positives for Eaton Lead Paint back then. You know, we endured some things. That's our reward.

We endured some things. I was in Australia for a couple of years when they stopped. And somehow I still bought one. So it happened. Whoa. There's going to be some investigative work. No. No. Did you sign papers? Jason? You know how many years ago that was? I don't know. Statue of limitations? Are you excited to throw that out there? It's over. Pry it from my cold, dead hands. I dare you. All right. So at the end of the day, if I'm a non-resident in Utah, I'm $144. Okay. That's well within reason, even under most states. $21 to apply per species. Okay. I'm not seeing anything that's bothering me. One time in my life, at some point in my life, I'm going to pay a good chunk. Oh, $1,900 for an elk tag. Hey, Josh, would you pay $1,900 for an elk tag to hunt Penguish Lake? Yeah. Every year. Five times a year. Yeah. Five times that. And that's the thing, honestly. Would you pay five grand?

That's getting up there. I couldn't do it every year. But yes, I would. But you'd do it for this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. To cash in your points, you would. The answer is yes. And you look at Wyoming Special charges about the same price. I mean, Nevada's not that high, but they've been $1,200 for a long time, which felt high. We were talking about New Mexico, that high demand quality at $775. That's been that way since. It feels like ever. When I was Logan's age, I was paying it. And it felt monumentally expensive. And that was back when a dollar was a dollar. And they still made pennies. That's right. And they appreciated them, too. I guess they were made in the Copper State. That's the thing. Like, our quality of our elk hunts here, I was fortunate enough last year to have two elk tags, and one of the next going one in Utah. And it's not fair. I've taken advantage of the system.

John, talk to him. You want to talk about a not fair system, John? Take advantage. All right. You should be barred. Wait, I'm on, like, license revocation? No, not license revocation. I still have a waiting period still as well. So I can't talk. All right. Keep going, John. I was going to say, you should have a waiting period. You had an amazing experience. Well, so you're going to compare the New Mexico and Utah. I can see where you're going. Yeah, and the experiences there, the tag that I had in New Mexico was one of the, quote, unquote, better units that you can draw there. Better for lots of different reasons. But, you know, quality of bulls, I guess, is one of them. And just the quality of bulls that I hunted on a Utah, one of our premiums, one of our premium, I guess you could say, limited, but it is just a limited entry.

But the quality of bulls that I was passing there compared to the bulls that I was loving that I would be hunting in New Mexico, yeah, you'd pay that to come have that experience. Yeah. You know, it's awesome. And you're only going to do it once. I love where you're going with it. And what I can't get over is the value of a 180-inch deer. If we're talking deer now, let's just, you can't even hardly book a hunt to hunt a 180. A gorgeous, boxy, big, four-and-a-half, five-and-a-half-year-old deer. Legitimate. Geez. Well, and back to that, like the general season deer and elk, which I know there was some big angst of the initial doubling prices that were thrown out there that some people caught wind of, we'll call them the, Logan, you might cut this or not, but I don't care. We'll call them the TMZ of the hunting world. We're kind of frothing up the world on this.

They ended up settling on the general mule deer in Utah at $599, the elk $849. They don't seem too egregious to me. Yes, it's more than they were, but that's well within what we pay in a lot of other states. It's a lot. And as a non-resident, those are the things you, other than the license and application fees that we just talked about, the general elk and general deer are some that you could pay on a much more regular basis. You know, that I think the division, you know, as they went, brought this forward to say, hey, maybe a doubling on some of these is really aggressive. We're worried about, hey, maybe not making the money that this program is intended to make. So not terribly out of line. Yes, they went up. I want to divert your attention to Colorado 2025 Epic Magazine elk cow, okay, non-resident fee, $825. That's the same as the bulls.

Remember, they used to be $250 for all those years, Jason. They used to give you that, and they did away with that. And these were gradually increased over the course of time. They've been high forever. And how many people go hunt cows in Colorado? Cows. It's the same price as a spike or general bull in Utah. And do I like it? No, I don't really like it. We don't like, nobody likes change, but I mean, let's just keep it in perspective here, people. Big West picture. And we're not, we live in Utah. And we realize we're not paying these fees, but we see these through the lens of all the other states and what they charge and how they play their games and what they charge. We don't pay these fees, but we pay some fees, okay? If we're adding up what I'm doing in Nevada for women and children, like, I mean, I'm well over a grand. Hell yeah. Well over a grand. Same with Arizona.

I mean, you're, if you have five people, you're a couple hundred bucks a year, non-refundable just for the license. And $15 app fees for a couple different drops. Yeah. $290 to $200. And you do have choices. You can drop out. And maybe the odds for non-residents will be good. And there's a lot of guys frothing it, like, hey, looking their chops of, you know, people dropping out and the odds are going to get better. Maybe, maybe it does happen. I don't think it'll be as, you know, as aggressive of a dropout as people think. And we all get mad initially. And then everybody kind of, you know, a week or two passes and they're finally, all right, I'll apply, you know. We've gone through it in a lot of states. It's Wyoming up in their special tag fees for deer, elk, and antelope a year or two ago.

So let's divert to that because we were aggressively talking about this when we were running odds on our website. We're looking at the website odds. Go look at what the special deer look like. Pay attention to the May magazines, all I'm going to say, when it comes to the special price deer license regions in Wyoming. It's unbelievable. The special license odds. How many of them you can draw a second, third choice? It's unbelievable. For $1,200 and something. Region G, 25% draw. I mean, it might be 23 or 24. I can't remember. H was 49. 25%. H was 50-50. I mean, hey, sign me up. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it's not. It's pretty awesome. Yeah, and you compare what a $1,200, what you do in another state, whether it be, I mean, by the time you go to Colorado, was it $500 for a tag? And, of course, you know, you've got to buy that tag.

But, I mean, you're $500, but if you buy a moderate or cheaper than dirt landowner tags a grand or $1,500 in Colorado, so it's the same price as a special price license for Wyoming. What would your hunter have? For Wyoming. Well, in a lot of cases, I'd probably rather Wyoming. Not in every region. I'm not, you know, but there's... No, but I've been impressed in some of the different regions I've been to, like you threw out W and places that I've hunted. Would you go back? Yeah. Yeah, it's worth it. I don't know. I find it interesting. Same thing like Justin. When Justin killed his first year six-point, we were over there in Colorado hunting deer, and, you know, I hunted up. He had turned 18, right? He had turned, yeah. Barely. So it went from 100 and something bucks to... It was like he was on the edge. I can't even remember what... I think it was that July.

Isn't it the July cutoff over there, if I remember right? Anyway, I walked out of Walmart way cheaper. Thinking, what did I just do? But then you smash a bull, and you're like, man... Best money ever spent? Yeah, kind of, you know? And so, anyway, it is what it is. We're not... Because we live here, we're... I want to make it very clear. We are not, like, paid off by Utah to support Utah. We've actually been very critical of Utah. But it's also, I guess, what... We're slightly frustrated, because we've dealt with a ton of calls the last three weeks. But just like Wyoming and some of the changes in their point systems, or New Mexico proposing some egregiously high fees this year. Stuff doesn't always pass when you see something rattling around in a legislative affairs meeting, or even in a local board meeting level. Stuff doesn't always stick. So, man, it seems like...

And there's a lot of news being reported as fact and done deal and signed, sealed, and delivered. But then since they went down that road, they've got to keep going down that road. And again, you're only going to pay this one time. If you get really lucky, you're going to be dinged. Your account's going to be a bit lighter. I get it. But having said that, getting to that point, it might be 20 years before you draw. Who knows what these fees are going to be. They're going to keep going up with inflation. It's kind of life. These are going to stick for a while, probably. Yeah, exactly. That's another way to look at it. It's like signing a John football player a year or two before you need to re-sign them. Because you know the barometer of the salary cap and what you pay for certain positions only going higher. And then you look at people like Patrick Mahomes right now.

They're like, I don't know. He's even in the top 10 for quarterbacks. Probably not. And you've got people like Purdy. I mean, we're way going down right now. You've got Purdy. We've lost Jason completely. You've got people like Brad Purdy might be one of the highest players in the NFL. And he's not the best. I just want to know where to kill a 200-inch player. Hey, I'm listening to the epic podcast for mule deer information. It's a good analogy, though. John knows what I'm picking up. He's picking up what I'm putting down. But, hey, you're saving money in the long end. The principle is this shocks you. In two years, it's not that shocking. Change is up. We all know that. And as every state kind of does a little bit more, it does put pressure on how much disposable income we can apply for. But let's look also. Utah came out with their proposed permit numbers. Wow.

Look at the once-in-a-lifetime tags in the state of Utah for all species. They almost doubled them for this year. A lot of them went from, like, five to nine. Well, because of the grouping. And it was actually smart. For the non-resident perspective, we're talking about the non-resident perspective. We've got a lot of Utah guys listening to this. Yeah. But, anyway, from the non-resident perspective, we always had the singles, which were random draws. Never give a high point tag. This year, you're going to have them in all species. There's going to be, like, four maximum point desert sheep tags, a rocky tag, plenty of goat, plenty of bison in the max point pool. Some years, there's never any. Because they do the 10% of the total.

And so then when you group them and you only allow residents or non-residents to apply for certain ones, the ones listed in black in the application booklet, then it allows for more tags to be issued per one. So when you look at the resident and non-resident, you're like, well, there's five and two. That's crazy. But they're just pulling other hunts together that don't have any non-residents and giving two on that. It's just like you could draw eight desert sheep tags or nine from nine different units, one of them. But they're allowing you to put them for five, and four of the five are given two tags. For the non-residents that have been waiting for this, that have had a ton of points, felt like they were going to die with their points. You now, if you're at the very top tier, you're in command right now. It's pretty awesome. Heard from three of them yesterday. It's crazy.

Three of those people. Pretty fun. Three of the 12. Yeah. On the sheep. On the desert. And they're excited. They're waiting. But anyway, and the same generally goes for deer and elk. You know, we've added, you know, a lot of different skews, like we like to jokingly call for elk and deer throughout the state. But that spreads out applicants, and it gives you a chance. But the skews have gotten a little aggressive. There are some. I mean, if you're willing to use a single-strand bow with guts, cat gut. Maybe sinew and, you know, whatever. Tendon from a hawk from two different big game animals. I mean, Logan, do you got a gun yet that you can hunt with this fall? No. No. I just applied. I got one you can buy. I love selling Logan stuff. Well, Bronson, you've been selling him. I'm coming up with a new rule. I won't buy anything from the Epic Office people for one year. This guy needs it.

I'm maxed out. Why? Just so you know, like, you can use a rifle, but it has to be open sight. Okay? It doesn't have to be straight walled. But I've got a straight walled for you that's the best straight walled ever. I'll tell you, if I draw, I'll come knocking. I might just have to have a loan or one of those guns that are in the office. As soon as somebody draws, you, like, check it out, kind of like booking a hotel in one hotel town in Colorado that's got 14 rooms. You better call the second you know you draw or you're not going to get one. It is frustrating. We do get frustrated with Utah on these tag numbers because we're pretty sensitive to that in the Beaver when they did the split. Beaver East and West on General Deer, let's say. Okay? It was 1,000 total. Now it's what? It's 1,900. Right. Almost doubled the tag. Collectively went up. Yeah.

And it's just, you know, it's just hard to watch, especially from passionate Beaver County that cares about trophies as much or more than any other county. Right. I mean, no matter what Josh says about Beaver County. Josh is staying quiet here. They're my people. It was one of my worst. If Josh stays quiet here, we know he's been threatened by somebody from Beaver County. You want to bring us back to talking about Beaver double attacks? So for the Utah Beaver, the Beaver tag numbers. The tag numbers are aggressive. They did come down a few, I guess, in the name of drought and whatnot, which we are right in the middle of, even though we've had some time in moisture. But Beaver, they went ahead and cranked you guys. Somehow you've offended SFW and others. We did. Yes. We probably shouldn't have spoke our minds. Don't do that or else you get slapped.

It's just interesting because it already felt cramped. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And even though it was a large unit, but now it's cut in half and it just already felt cramped. Crank the tag. It was hard to see. You're going to be less successful with all the open site provisions. Yeah. So I don't know. We'll see. You know, you guys probably- Bullets whizzing everywhere. It'll be fun. It'll always be fun. Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, Bronson, what else we got? Hey, so I need some therapy. Oh. We've talked about tag fees. Start the clock. Right? When am I going to be able to spend my money and they actually take that tag fee? You know, you have like pet peeves. I need just you guys to talk me through this. Some things just bug me. So tell me, change my mind here. Forcing someone to buy a hunting license when they're not going to be able to hunt that year.

John, that's good for a cottontail or coyotes or I don't know. I know it's good for it, but you have to have it in order to apply. You're talking like even Arizona. You have to- Nevada, Arizona, anything. Better not be shooting a coyote in Arizona. Utah, Colorado. I think it's morally wrong to charge a hunting license fee when they're not going to hunt. To apply only. To apply only. I would rather they call it an application fee. Some of these states jumped on the bandwagon after that. Well, here's why they don't. Call it an application fee. I'm totally fine with it. How about a point fee in Wyoming? Yeah. Well, that's okay. You're getting something. No, I know, but I mean they haven't caught on to the whole hunting license. Yeah. Well, and I know it's just words, but- And they don't do this because with the Pittman-Robertson money, that's why they're doing this. Yeah.

And a lot of them, like with elk or even some of these, they'll sell you hunting and fishing. Arizona does that. Or the elk tag in Wyoming comes with a fishing license. Or your hunting license- Nevada comes with everything except for a federal duck stamp. That's right. And you buy a- Idaho, remember you get a three-day fishing license on top of that? Which three days do you want to fish? It's because of federal money and they can get money from your hunting license for hunting and fishing that way. That's why they're doing it. So they call it that to get more money. Well, because you double and triple- If it's an application fee, they can't because those money are earmarked by the federal government for the excise tax on fishing equipment, hunting equipment, to go back to the states based on license sales. Best on individuals that buy hunting licenses. Yeah.

So that answers your question as to why that happens. No, it's all about the money, John. It's kind of like- It comes back to about the money. If I'm going to drive across Colorado, they should make you buy a hunting license to drive across the state, you know? What about tolls on roads? Yeah. Well, you're using the road. I get those texts every day. But it's like something that you're not going to use. You're forced to buy. You're not going to use a big bite choice. Yes. Well- There, you can. You're not going to. These guys didn't even hear me. I was the only one that heard that. They didn't even hear me. What did you say? I said, I get those texts every day for tolls. And I pay them because I don't want to get trouble. Oh, come on. I just got one the other day. I use the Epic card. Nope. I use the Epic card because I figure it's coming in. It's a business card.

The last thing I want is to have my two business partners. No Nigerian prince needs your help, Adam. There's no beautiful singles in your area wanting to meet you. Stay away from those ads. Just toast. Logan, how do you even know those ads pop up? I'm talking about- I didn't know. There's places that take your license plate and you get a ticket in the mail. I'm thinking, this is going to be me. I better pay it. I just want to keep doing it. I don't want to be the loose link that brings down Epic Outdoors. And knock it. I know I got one. You got him out. Better knock on some wood. You got Adam F. Bronson that works there. He's got some outstanding warrants for toll fees. I want to be the guy. Well, hey, what about Arizona? Arizona's listening, pulling hunting licenses for years for littering. I'm just saying. Bronson, you're going to pull us for-

They're going to pull you and you're going to bring down Epic Outdoors for littering a gun wrapper. I'm actually scared to hunt down there. Arizona, their commission, they're jerks. They are. No joke. You're going to go before the commission for what? You're going to have to take a hunting safety course. Do yourself a favor. You know, repent in church for taking that extra fish and don't go before those people.

Let them take your license for five years and your kids' licenses for another five. They're brutal. I'm not saying some people don't deserve it, but geez, man. I mean, those people, I don't know. They worked a guy over. Let's hear it. Adam watched it because I was watching it. I turned up the volume. They took a guy's. They worked a guy over. Okay. For life was for trail cams. For a mountain lion. For a mountain lion. We should be honoring the guy in a way. And here you don't even have to have a tag. You don't even have to have a carcass tag here to kill a lion. Okay. We should be honoring him. I love that. Yeah. We should be getting a plaque. Killed four lions. Nevertheless, you know. Done for life, I think. Maybe there's probably some extenuating circumstances. But even moving on from that is they worked a guy over for not eating a lion. For wanton waste of wildlife. Oh, gosh. I mean.

It is the most amazing meat on planet Earth. But, wow. I'm just saying. It doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth. I don't know what does. You remember that, Bronson? On the fish over limit. For how many years they got. The gal just went off on wasting the carcass. Have you ever seen a piece of meat get wasted in the wild? No. Every scrap is eaten. Oh. I mean. Those condors. Oh, man. They need to eat. Yeah. We're saving the condors. They need to eat. I'm just saying. A cat meat's not going to waste. Josh, you're very quiet. How does bobcat taste? I never tasted that. But I do know that I've personally witnessed there is one thing that goes to waste every time. What? Coyote. Nothing eats coyote. Nothing eats coyote? Nothing. Coyotes will eat coyotes, won't they? No. Really? Nothing will eat a coyote. Not even a bear. Bears.

How about the lions we see in trail cameras that have the coyote in its mouth? I've got that. Coyotes are eating. Or lions are eating coyotes. That's just a pleasure killing. There's out on this. There's documented. Okay. I'm not going to expound because it's some of my favorite places on planet Earth. But lions eating coyotes. Really? Maybe they will. I just know because I've found going into pickup collars and stuff where coyotes will try and come in to take a kill or something away from the lion. They've killed the coyotes and the coyotes are just laying there dead. They haven't been eating or anything and they're still eating the deer. Okay. I got one. That's different, Josh. I got one. I got one. Are maggots not God's creature? Absolutely. I love it, Josh. There you go. Nice talking. This lion has a venison cache right here and he has a mangy dog. What are you going to eat?

I mean, it's not hard. There was a more extensive. But when there's a lack of venison. A more extensive project that I had once. Whoa. Tell me more. Not even a bear would eat a coyote.

Well, that tells you something. Because bears are disgusting. They're disgusting and they wouldn't even touch it. I even put powdered sugar on it. And they still wouldn't touch it. Everyone. Well, we could go down this road. I hate bears. I'll never kill another black bear. Really? I mean, when you look at them skinned out laying there, what does it look like? Jason? I've never skinned a human. It's like a dead human. I've never skinned a human, so I wouldn't know. But you've said they're just like a skinned human. They're disgusting. So have you skinned a human? What do you? No. There was a. Just looks like a naked man. A case. There was a case.

There was a case. Jen has got a lot of work cut out for her. We were working a case one time when I was a game board way back in the day. And I remember that was the first time I'd ever experienced that. And we were hiking this canyon looking for a bear carcass because we knew what had been left. But it was like a skinned out bear carcass. So just the carcass. That's legal in Utah, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We don't have to. That wasn't because of it. Something else you're investigating. Yes, we were looking. You're digging through. What was in its guts. No, you're looking for us. And you're looking for a receipt that he filled out of his book. Snickers wrapper. Literally. You can't wait to go for the commission. Anyway. And we're walking down this canyon. And I look down on this rock. And there's this big old huge bloated up. Looked like a skinned out human laying down there on this rock.

Arms in the air. And you're going to do the necropsy. On its back. And I'm like. It's the most disgusting. It's unsettling. It is unsettling. That took Viking to the next level. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I didn't know where that bear got into sprinkles and corn. But somewhere it did. Cookie crumbs.

And then you're going like this with the gut. Oh, Josh. It's always one sentence Josh takes it further than it needs to go. Exactly. Logan, we don't need to look at Reddit. That's exactly what it looks like. Well. Whatever. Whatever. I don't even know where we're at. I'm fine. Well. I'm fine with killing them. It's just. It's just. You know. Whatever. Anyway. Not my favorite thing. I have a lot of good meat in my freezer. It's not. From horse. Horse.

Horse. It's called Oryx, Jason. There's a big difference. Go watch video. They're. I don't want to be. Fishing their tails. I don't want to be investigated. Getting the flies off each other's faces. Well, when you say. When you say horse. They're parked. They're parked. Butt to face. And this. Flicking each other's faces. In this era of chat, GBT, and all you guys are showing me. You're saying Adam has horse meat in his freezer. And that's living out there. I'm going to get investigated for shooting a Mustang out west. Not true. We live right out here. This is not true. So. They. They resemble a horse in ways. It is definitely different. Distinctly different. And I paid money for those tags. I bought them. They're mine. I eat them. It's all true. It's all true. But I'm way past. Where are we at now? Well, we're. So we need to talk anything more about Utah. No. I mean. Crap.

The highlights haven't changed a whole lot. It is tough to draw. I still think they're discriminating against residents. We can only apply for deer, elk, or antelope. I don't. One of the once in a lifetime. I don't. I don't want it. No. I like it. I like being. Regulates the odds a little bit. It does a little bit. Kind of the Idaho principle. Yeah. Of having to choose sheep, goater, moose. And then you could do the deer, elk, and antelope. We can't even do that here. But hey. The non-residents. I don't mind. We'll take all your application fees. And do good things. Well. And look. Even antelope pods for non-residents are terrible. Why? Because everybody added. Because for 20 bucks. 17, 18 years ago. 21 bucks now. You can throw in. Now if that. You know. If it going from 16 to 21 bothers you. Give it up. Yeah. You know. No problem. License fees. Not too much. Remember the twofer.

But should we breeze through these other states that are due this month?

We can go. Well. We don't. When I say breeze. I would say breeze. I mean a 60 second breeze. And then you're back to sunshine. But I would say. And rainbows. Is that what you're at? No. What do you want? Butterflies. How about. Okay. You don't like when I say rainbows. I just. Rainbows are different. I have different interpretations of rainbows than what you think about. When we see a rainbow, we're going to be on the earth a little longer. Well. I just. No. I just. They're just. They're happy. You know. I don't talk about a social. You know. You know. Flagship. Platform. We're way past that. Yeah. Exactly. We're way past that. But anyway. Idaho is due. It's opened April 1st for moose, sheep, and goat. It's due the 30th. Like Jason alluded a minute ago. If you choose to apply for the sheep, moose, and goat. It's a one and done.

That's all you can do except for the secondary draw or leftover stuff later on. It's just a drawing odds regulator. Simple as that. If you don't do the sheep, moose, and goat. The deer, elk, antelope draw will come out with a deadline of June 5th. You can do all three of those. Or one, two, or three of those. It's just the biggest thing you've got to weigh out. So speaking of expensive state, this is a $185 license, John, with the three-day fishing. I might add that. You're a fisherman. And you get to choose the three days. You must choose it right now. It's like you can plan a weekend. And then you can call your employer and say, I'm going to be fishing on these three days. And go for sturgeon. You've been talking about going with Jen and getting away for taking your boat out. Head to Idaho. Find something. And you want to talk about waste? Drag my boat to Idaho.

How many general deer tags do you think I've purchased in the state of Idaho, let alone for family, my boys? Exactly. Just to have the backup plan. Yeah. Okay? And then never entering their state, never launching lead at all whatsoever, not hurting a single thing. Straight up funding their department. You know, in the name of conservation, it's not, you can get around it by saying, let's donate a little. No. Like, you can get around it mentally. Yeah. But it is no joke when you start involving family. Yeah. Well, you're paying $185 as a prerequisite hunting license, $10 access depredation fee. Then you've got a $46, we'll call it, dollar application fee for sheep, moose, and goat. Then they tack on an online convenience fee. So you're in at about $325, non-refundable, to apply for moose, sheep, or goat. And that's plus or minus, but it's very close to that. I like it.

Depends on if you pay in person versus online. Because you can, you can, if you're driving through Idaho, you can go pay in person somewhere, and they don't charge you quite as much. Yeah. But it is nice. They have 10% of the tags can, up to 10% of the tags can go to non-residents. And so we have like up to 10 tags for sheep in Idaho. And a lot of times we'll meet our quota. Yeah, we do. Usually, a lot of years it's nine. It just depends on the overall quota. Rockies and Calies. And so, anyway, what a great state with relatively good odds. It's hard to discern what the odds really are. Yeah. You know, you're in with the residents until we meet our quota, and then no more non-residents are pulled. Yeah. And so, but we do think it's worth it for guys that are applying for sheep or want to get a sheep. Apply for sheep.

You can't do the moose and goat, as Adam talked about, or the special limiteds for deer, elk, and antelope. And so, anyway, you can still have your over-the-counter, and you can still do that. It doesn't pertain to that. And then apply for sheep or do whatever else you're going to do. Moose. I've killed a moose up there. We've been applying for sheep aggressively, depending on the year. That's what I also like. No point system. Yeah. Just like New Mexico. If it's feeling cramped or too much of my schedule, whether it's money or schedule, just sit it out. You're not missing out on anything, you know? It's hard to, you know, you might have FOMO, but, hey, save $325. Sit out. Right? Yep. But, and hey, I'm guilty of that, as anybody. Jason and I both are. So if that gets to a deadline, yeah, I'm not doing that this year. I'm going to do, you know, something else. Yeah.

Try sitting out of New Mexico, Jason. No, it's hard. Even in a drought year, I'm in for everything. Exactly. But everything for Idaho, these three species, sheep, moose, and goats, broken down on a March issue. Again, the deadline's April 30th, so it's upon us. Just like Wyoming. The one difference, I guess, I will point out on Wyoming, sheep, moose, goat, bison, is they moved their deadline to April 30th for the main reason, to approve their permit numbers and have their commission meeting. There's quite a bit to point out, unfortunately. Yeah. There is. And that's going to be the 22nd, 23rd of April. Those permit regulations, proposed regulations, and permit numbers are all on their website. And it does look like they are going to have a random draw tag for sheep and a few for moose. In unit five. And a few for moose. Yep. You don't have to see if that holds, but you can wait.

You can wait to apply after that. If you're in the 25-plus point tier for non-residents, you're obviously in the damage range that you can apply for something. And it'd be wise to look at those permit numbers or call us if you're interested. This is something we just can't put in print because it comes out so late. Yeah. And then it's not even ratified. Well, if you've noticed, they'll come out with a hump planter in January, February for elk and then these other species in, say, January, February. And then they'll change that. And even by now, when they get an idea of what permit numbers are going to be, there's some sheep numbers they had initial one resident, one non-resident plant. Well, now they're cutting the tag to one and it's going to a resident. And one of them changed before our very eyes. Yes.

And it's just like, and then you go into print with one trying to be right on the cutting edge. And you just slightly off and it's just frustrating. Yeah, it's frustrating. So in the future, we may just, we'll talk about that. We may just print everything. There's going to be a lot of emphasis placed. What they really need to do for elk, they need to just move their application period to May with the deer and elk. I mean, they love to get the non-residents applying for elk first because they've always been in January. They used to do the draw the end of February and you're out and done. You front the fees. What do you think they do with those fees? Yeah, now it's like four months and there's hunts on there for elk that weren't even available for you to apply for. Very egregious, John. What do you think of that? Egregious. Amusing people.

I don't know that there's a lot of time the government isn't abusing people. It's just people abusers. It's kind of a game of how much can we get out of them. We are subjects of the government, John. How much can we, where do we push? In some of these states, you know, you could be argued everybody's breaking limits a little bit different on how much am I willing to pay to play in your state. Every state, it feels like trying to push that limit and then they all probably watch each other, you know, understandably. You know, they know what other states are doing. You know, we know they brought it up. So, it's tough. It's unfortunate. But, you know, hey, I'm glad I have a lifetime running license. Okay. Okay. Okay. I had to sneak that in there. All right. You're also going to have to apply for Kansas. If you want to go to Kansas in 2026, get a point this year. It's pretty cheap.

I want to say it's $27. Anyway, grab you a point, off you go, and then you'll be able to 100% get in next year. You can draw everything with one point. Have real odds in the publication. So, you can also, as a member, go on and see our e-mags. You can also go on and see our online odds. I think the simplest, best out there. It's just awesome. Minimum point queries, things like that. So, anyway, I want to throw out some ads, but I don't know if these companies would endorse our opinions. They're so aggressive today. Today, we're on the edge. Yeah. So, anyway, we're going to – how about this? How about we're going to go ahead and throw an ad out for our new Epic Tripods? All right. So, we launched our new Tripods. We launched our new Tripods. Yeah. So, yeah, we've had Tripods, what, for a year now. And they've been awesome. They've been – I mean, it's kind of one of those things –

They're incredible. You know, you look at Tripods. A lot of times, you don't think it's something that's terribly important or whatever. I just need one. But there's a difference between a good Tripod and a bad Tripod. And we all know that. It's something we use probably of hunting equipment. Every day for three months. Yeah. You use it significantly. Just as much as mine else. You use it significantly. And so, it was last year. Obviously, we've been using ours all last year. We had some prototypes we were using even the year before. But our new ones last year, I was using them. And then when I was on an elk hunt, I had – my son was with me. Anyway, we were trying to find some elk. He had his own spotting scope on an old Tripod that I had. He was trying to find some elk. And he was having a hard time finding them. So, I'm like, here, let me find them for you real quick.

And I got down there to use them. And it was a Tripod that I actually thought used to be good. And I got down there to use it. I'm like, this thing's a piece of crap. The word janky comes through. We used to think three legs and a little bit of an extension on a neck was a good thing. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this thing sucks. I was just so used to how smooth and nice and, I don't know, awesome ours is. And so, anyway, yeah, we've had them for a while. And a lot of guys, we've sold a lot of them, haven't had any come back. I mean, no complaints. Like, it's been awesome. Guys really love them. So, but there's always things that we could change or upgrade or want to do with them. And so, this year we did come out with a big change. I guess two big changes that we did. The first one being we came out with a new size. So, we now have, we've added the max tripod to the Epic line.

And size would initially make you think height, right? Correct. But this would be the same height as the other one. Yes. But it's beefy. Yep. It's still the same height and everything is the Ultra. But it's awesome. It's just, when you're talking about the size, it's just that, it's a 32 millimeter on the first tube. So, just that extra little bit of diameter on it, it's really going to help with the wind. Wind and heavier optics. You know, bigger spotting scopes, especially if you are using them with the center post up at all. And or BTX or something like that or set of big eyes of any kind. Yeah. That's what this is for. To help keep vibration down, keep your steady. That's really all this. I mean, imagine Devin. Okay. You don't even extend the neck. Yeah. All you have is the legs. So. That thing's steady. Oh, yeah. For him, it's probably fine, honestly. Yeah.

If you're a, call it, you know, five and a half footer. No. No, the neck down, standing on a rock. Okay. I love teasing you. Doggone it. All right. But, yeah, it's, so instead, you know, our ultra tripod, it's 28 millimeter. So, it's a good size on the first. And when we're talking about that, it's that first leg that comes off of where you attach the head. It's a 28 millimeter. So, a good medium size. And then our light tripod's 24. So, it kind of gives you an idea of just those size differences in those. Percentage. And then how much did it change weight? I think it was like right at a bound, wasn't it? Not. No, it's less. Ultra to the max, just almost. Yeah. 15 ounces or something. I think it's pretty amazing. When we first came up with this idea, we were like, let's do a truck tripod and just have it beefy and substantial. And it came in at 4.7 pounds. It's still a light tripod.

With the head. With the head. With the head. It's still one you would throw on your pack. Yeah. And it's so sturdy. Yeah, your day hunt. I love it. I love it, too. Versus, click on the ultra real quick. 3.8 pounds. 3.8. Yeah, for the ultra. So you're 4.7 versus 3.8. It's a little bulkier, too. But, yeah, you can decide. But, I mean, it's... The most common tripod will be the one we had. Yes. Ultra, ultra, ultra. And we ordered heavy on that. We ordered heavy on them all. But heavier on that. But I think part of it, too, is this new quick-release head. Yeah. The Arca Swiss with the quick-release. Like, I mean, when you're... I don't know. I wear the skin off my fingers some days. Yeah. On and off. On and off. On and off. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I think we all use spotting scope binoculars. Spotting scope binoculars. Like, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

At least I do all the time. Look at the Viking down low. You're crazy. What do you mean? That's a graphic. You haven't seen that? No. Speaking of... That's Bigfoot with... Speaking of manscaping, he needs a little bit. That is hilarious. I mean, geez, John. Is that anatomically correct? It is. When you go to our store on Epic Outdoors... Is that an udder? Go look at... John just loves to throw this stuff in. He needs more to do in life. I mean, we've got a Viking. You have a Viking. It shows you who uses our tripod. This tripod is big enough. If you're 6'5", you can glass standing up with these tripods. Not the light, but the other two, easily. It's awesome. The light tripod is what Adam and I... You take sheep hunting. He's saying it's so good. He would replace our ghetto. Yeah, even a Viking would use it. Oh, my gosh. Conquering lands.

But anyway, and again, the head, nothing's changed as far as the fluidity. The smoothness of our fluid head. It's unbelievable. It's unmatched. I mean, seriously unmatched. The serious hunters in the West are using our tripod. Very discerning. Ourselves. If it wasn't right, we wouldn't want it either. I mean, we'd have perfected it a lot better. It's not like, hey, this will work. Let's just send it out. Because no, we've used... I don't know. How many tripods? I have in a pile in my house. So many. Some of them have janky legs that come out and fall out. I would love to sell you guys some tripods. I would too. John? So the truck tripod we were talking about, there's a Zeiss, remember this tripod, Bronson, that we had that you would put the old koas on? Oh, yeah. Remember that? And it was like, I think it was like a Zeiss tripod or whatever. Let's call it a 14-pounder. I don't know.

It's like a surveyor's tripod, basically. I mean, that's what John's talking about. It's not that. It's still a usable hunting tripod, even though it's the Max. I think you'd want them both. They're all in stock, too. I mean, we've got everything ready to go. Remember pricing, Josh? We're talking $5.99 for the biggie. Yeah, and that's the combo. That's the combo. That's not just the legs. That's the leg and the head. And it comes with a plate. You're not going to find a price like that on a tripod like this anywhere. You won't. I dare you to try. You're not. Yes. And that's what we wanted. So that Max, just so you know, it comes with the Ultra head. We only have one, quote-unquote, big head. Big head is the Ultra head. It's going to be on the Max or the Ultra. The light has its own head, but they're both quick-release. They all have the same quick-release lever on them.

We should do a package with the Ultra legs and Max legs and the one head because you need both. I had guys that wanted the Ultra head. Let's call it. Is there one? There's two heads. We've got the light one and the heavy. Yeah. And I've had guys want the more stable rated head on the light legs. Yeah. A lot of mix and match that. And we would do that. We would do that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They don't come with them. It's just the legs or the head. We'll throw it in the box with you however you want. So you can mix and match it. Might be slightly more. So the light tripod combo would be $299. Yeah. You know, you're going to be slightly more price-wise, but not much. And then $499 for the middle. Let's call it the Ultra. The most common for a 6'5 Viking. Only John's little emojis for the wind. Like the two-breath wind. What is it? Like the – and then the max has the triple. Or hurricane.

Cedar City wind. You'd have to go with the max. If you're down in St. George, you use anything you want. You can even rest it on a rock, whatever you do down there. But, hey, and even the – we didn't talk about this, but the window mounts went to the quick release as well. Yes. Our window mount. Same new revampment of that. The light head with the window mount quick release on that too. Yeah. And now's a good time. And not our plate. Not a square plate. Not something unique to Epic. This is an Arca Swiss. All Arca Swiss plates will work. Yep. And we've also got – now's a great time. We've got all of our accessories in stock too. So make sure, you know, you're going to need a vinyl clamp this year. Just go ahead and get it. Or some of the phone holders, we've sold a lot of those, and they're pretty amazing. They're awesome for hunting alone or even in groups just with your phone.

I mean, John, let's keep it real. You're the art director, graphic guy. Yeah. We've talked about phones for things like four or five years now. They've been good enough. Good enough to use. To just use for print quality. But, I mean, you need one of those because we've all used Janky, trying to lean it up against your pack. This is so awesome. Put your phone in there. Jason can use it. Okay. Okay. And it's true, but I can't find mine. Can we get a – I have so much gear. Do you guys ever feel like you're just engulfed in gear? Yeah, but the more gear you have, the better chances you're going to find something very similar that works. It's true. If you can't find what you really want. It's true. But I just go back to – I need to have a day where we just like, okay, today I'm going to find my gear. And I'm going to put one of these in my pack, like my day pack. You know what I mean? I just –

You just go so hard throughout the spring, summer, fall. So anyway, you lose track of everything. And I think it goes back to we're a little older now. You acquire – anything you want, you kind of justify it one way or another, and then you end up with a lot of crap. Here. They're very helpful, right, John? I've got one in each pack. So, John, when you use yours, do you flip it around and use the good camera on the back, or do you use this little selfie camera? No, I use the good camera, and, again, I use my Apple Watch to see where it's pointing. Okay. And so I'm sitting behind the animal. I guess we need an Apple Watch. No. It's so worth it. It's so cool. Well, you can see what the picture looks like and then just hit the self-timer on your watch, and it goes. You're using the good camera on your phone.

I think what happened is society realized we were going away from watches because we have phones, so they needed a way to get a watch back on our wrist. It's amazing. So they made it a computer. Put it on our wrist. Which is crazy. I'm paying as much for a watch now as we did for computers back in the day. But it's faster than the computers you used to use. I mean, think about Atari. Yeah. Yeah, it is. The Apple IIc. It's funny, Adam. You're talking about propping up your phone. I remember when I was on with my wife, I'm using her hair ties to tie my phone to the tripod to try to get it to stay on there. I pull rubber bands out of my head. I've done everything imaginable. You know, like the old 15s that had the objective lens things that flap in the wind. I would always carry a bunch of rubber bands because you have to suck those to your objective lens in your 15s

because in your glass and they're flapping and you're vibrating. I take them off. And so I would get the rubber bands out and try to janky put my phone around something, around a stick. And this takes all that out. And it has an Arca Swiss plate on the bottom of the phone adapter one, not the light one, not the little one. I don't know how this would work for guys that cut their toothbrush to save weight. Well, that's why we've got the light version. That's why we have the light version. I'm just, whatever. I'm done with this podcast. We're over it. You want to get something, call Epic Outdoors 435-263-0777 or go to epicoutdoors.com. Go to the store. Once you get on there, if you're not seeing the $499 or $299 or $599. Make sure you log in. Yeah, you've got to log in to Shopify. You've got to log into Shopify. Am I wrong? Right. That's how you do it. Log in, get your member benefit there.

If you're not a member and you want to log, just buy when you get there. Do that. Prices are still good. It's one thing to log in to Epic Outdoors, but then you've got to log into Shopify. Yeah. So, anyway, buy optics and everything else you want on there. I mean, of course, we'd love to talk to you and take your order over the phone. And that will verify for sure you're getting the Epic Outdoors discount. But you'll know. It'll say there. There'll be prices slashed. Crossed out. And then the new price. And there you go. It's all behind the scenes of logging in. Verifying your membership. So, make sure that you're a member. Member of Epic Outdoors, which is, again, $150 a year. And give you all the online access to our odds, the magazine, consulting, 14,000 other good things. All right. We're over at Bronson. It's time for lunch. What else, John? Anything to go?

Well, I just got to say, like, doing some research. Jason's ready to go to lunch. But there's been some things I've discovered this week that all odds are not the same. They're not created equal. And it matters. It matters where you get your odds. I had to answer to some other company odds. Bronson was there when I was doing it. You know, I swear this is what they say for these odds. And so I did a screenshot. And, you know, and they said, you know, that this, you know, it wasn't, you know, yeah, this, you know, it says they're recovering from the 07-08 winter, okay, where it's 2025. There was just some things, and it's like, but anyway, we work hard, and we'll answer your questions, and that's fine. But you're right, John, to your point. It is. And, I mean, you kind of get what you pay for. And we do this full time. It's all we do. We're passionate about it.

And, like, we put the thought into our odds and how they're calculated. And you can get, you know, guys that think they're mathematicians, and it's just not how the draw works. It's not how things, you know, shake out. And we are dialed into it. So our stuff is accurate and more accurate than anybody else's, I would say. So we're going to go through some of these questions. There's a lot of questions here that are interesting. We're already in our move. Yeah, let's hit that next time. Maybe. Maybe first next week, Jason, after you have a good weekend of doing whatever you're going to do. Yeah, I'm going to do some things.

Well, that sounded exciting, Jason. Let's call it a conference weekend. Let's call it a shed hunting weekend. Family outings. There we go. You know, we've got some snow out here. We're excited about that. I'm going to go hit the golf ball around a little bit, maybe. Rock a little rust off. We'll see. I'm not going to waste time doing that. I'm definitely going to be out in the hills. I'm out in the hills just doing different things. Changing a little ball. As you say, you might find a shed in the brush. Hey, there have been some epic. It's happened before. It's happened before.

Anyways, we don't want to throw anybody out of the bus. There's been some sheds collected in and around there. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, all right. Let's call it a day. Are we good? Yeah, we're good. All right. Happy weekend, everybody.

Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic-approved outfitters and members-only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas. No more applying for a unit where there has been a die-off. And no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home. Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market.

Their new Guide Pro Series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time-consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again, the Epic Outdoors License Application Service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications. You'll never miss a deadline, you'll never apply for the wrong unit, and you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die-off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors License App. 435-263-0777.

If you want a bow from the best manufacturer there is, look at Hoyt Archery. With the addition of the new Carbon RX-8 and the Aluminum Alpha X, Hoyt has reimagined what a bow can do. Hoyt Bows. Where 70 pounds feels like 60. Call us to order yours today. 435-263-0777. With Fierce Rifles, every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry, and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long-range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next Fierce Rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official Fierce Rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 435-263-0777. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer, and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs.

Go to epicoptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777. If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the West. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to stjamesportingproperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you're a long range shooter dialing in that perfect shot or an archery hunter in need of an easy to carry optic without sacrificing quality, Vortex has you covered.

Head over to epicoptics.com or call us to learn more about your Vortex options today at 435-263-0777. From top of the line hunting blinds to game calls that can't be beat, GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need. For all of their products, head over to gsmoutdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable long range shooting. If you don't want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range system is for you. Simply range, place the hash mark for that distance on the animal, and pull the trigger. They make top quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to a thousand yards. Visit ThompsonLongRange.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience.

The crew at Epic Outdoors trust Stealth Cam trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. Stealth Cam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating. Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360-degree camera, at StealthCam.com. Epic Outdoors is an official Stealth Cam dealer. Call us to order yours today at 435-263-0777. Phone Scope changed the game with their digiscoping innovations and have remained the top phone to optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro Phone Scope now at PhoneScope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it's a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your Outdoor Edge knife. Head over to OutdoorEdge.com and check out their brand new Razor VX knife today.

Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner. When it comes to top-tier quality, Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations. If you're in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website EpicOptics.com or call us at 435-263-0777 to find out which Zeiss Optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA muzzleloader dealer. If you're in the market for a new muzzleloader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA muzzleloaders are the go-to muzzleloader for Epic Outdoors and crew. We've definitely got our favorite setups for Western big game hunting in stock. Call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.