EP 350: Nontypical or Typical Mule Deer, 2025 Moisture Outlook and More

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson, you're here with us today. How are you? I'm doing good. We got Joshua Pollack. Of course, we've got him on mute. He's stuffing his face full of, I don't know. Who are we going to give credit to today for Josh's health? Nobody for free. Just call us a tropical smoothie, tropical cafe. He's got a sandwich and an energy drink of sorts, which is good for you kids. Beep that out, Logan. Or just a sandwich. My energy drinks are fine for me, not for you guys. Oh, hi, Logan. How are you doing? I'm doing good. Oh, all right. Logan. Logan bought his first adult purchase, besides a truck. Oh, I was going to say. I did. What do you mean? He bought a gun from me a while ago, too. Oh, come on. Wait a minute. I bought a gun. And I've got little kids that have bought guns, so go ahead. Logan owns part of a boat, too. Okay.

Logan owns part of a boat. Logan's in the adult camp. You went in with your dad on that? Yeah. But this dirt bike, I think, is all his. I'm not sure. All me. Did you trade this dirt bike? Are you sharing the dirt bike with anybody? No. No. It's all me. Brand new? Yeah. Brand new. Is it one mile on the odometer? I think on this very podcast, within the last 30 days, Logan said he's done being lured by us for any epic optic stuff. And since we shut our mouth, he goes out and buys from someone else. Yes. I stuck to it. Yes. No. Yeah. You went downtown and blew us out of the water with just what we offer you. But hey, nobody offered me a dirt bike. You know what really hurts my feelings more than anything? Is anybody that purchases something that has wheels, I want them to run it by me. Just say, Jason, Grandpa Jason, do you think this would be a good purchase?

And I'd be like, yes, and I'm good. I'm good. You could go do it. But I just was, I felt a little hurt that you didn't even run it by me. Well, next time I'll loop you in. If you'd have known how fast this happened, there was no time for looping. Do you text? I do text. I'll send you a Snapchat. Okay. I'll send you a Snapchat next time. Selfie at Ron's. You won't find me on Snap, but I was just wondering. I'm telling you, there's no better cheerleader than Jason when it comes to buying fun stuff. Somebody else spending money. John was a bad cheerleader, too. By the way, Logan. I told you guys, didn't I tell you at lunch that I was excited that Logan made this frivolous purchase. Yeah. It's fun. Out on his own without anybody egging him on. Yes. But now you're mad that he didn't. No, I just would. I think you just should have a little more respect than that, Logan.

And you should run some of these buyers. I was mainly worried that if I told you what dirt bike I wanted to buy, you'd have me buy a different one. No, I'm good with that. I've had those. Honda's? Honda's good. I don't know. But I got another option for you. Okay. Logan, are you ready to buy a bow? I've got a couple in my office. I've got an Alpha X2 and an RX9 without home sitting in there. And one of them had your name on it. They're a lot cheaper than a motorcycle. To all the listeners? We could withhold some wages. To all the listeners, it sounds like there's going to be two bows available at the end of this podcast. What are you saying? That's what I'm saying. He's out. Logan, you sold me to run all things buying. I think, Bronson, this is what it comes down to. Screaming deals. Is he's not willing to buy premium gas for his dirt bike.

And so I just think that's where he's at in his budget. There's not a budget for a bow or a broadhead or anything. You're one good archery tag away from needing one of these bows. Keep that in mind. It's true. And there's a lot of draws about to come out. But, hey, if you're going to pass, we'll have to find another home for him then. I'm going to pass on this one. Speaking of which, Bronson, that's a hard pass. Bronson, throw it out there. Well, we just did. All right. Anybody who needs a bow, call us. I'm just waiting for mine to show up. It hasn't shown up yet. I've got some particulars. It's hard to keep trying to call them. So is yours, the one you're selling, already set up? I'm not selling any. What do you mean? Oh, you mean these two? Are you not selling one of your personal bows? Oh, heck no. Okay. No. These are not. No, I'm talking brand new bows. N-I-B. Oh, brand new.

I thought you were selling them. We gave them some of the giveaway. I shipped one out yesterday to our gear package winner from our last membership drive. I've got another one set aside for the next membership drive. And, Bronson, I'm probably out on mine. Come on. Okay. So you are definitely one good archery tag away from one another bow. Definitely. And I've definitely got a good archery tag. But I'm looking at it going, then you've got to set it up. And there's a lot of guys that really enjoy that part. He said he's got what? He said he's got one. I've got a really good archery tag. What do you mean? What do you mean? I know I'm going to draw potentially in one of these states that has deer with general for residents that are not general for non-residents.

And that has an archery season attached to it. Because of certain privileges. Whatever. Lifetime. No. Credentials. Anyway. And I'll probably be. I just didn't know. I just thought we were going to hear something real big and groundbreaking. Maybe a dedicated hunter in Utah. I don't know. All right. So anyway, moving forward. Moving past the bows. I'm not the guy that likes setting them up. I'm just. No. There's people that do that. We don't set them up anyway. You tell them what you want on your bow. Here's the side I want. Here's the rest I want. There is some. And the arrow. Suffering that goes along with trading. It just. It is what it is. Ty might need one. I don't know. Let me know. That's already been worked on. Okay. That's where my quote. That's where your quote. Old bows. Okay. It's a good place for the old bows. They aren't so old. And they get a two-year-old bow.

How about how that's pretty dang good? You know what's funny? Sometimes there's some. Like you want to use grandpa's old gun because there's some nostalgia. Not with bows. No. I'll use dad's old bow. Never mind. Never mind. This thing squeaks when I drop. It needs some. I'm sure you dry fired it once or twice, didn't you, dad? Anyway. All right. Where does that leave us, John? Well, before we dive in, we're going to do some Q&A, but we survived some deadlines these last couple of days. We've got Wyoming's done. Moose, sheep, goat. Sheep, goat, moose, bison. We've got Idaho that's done sheep, goat, moose. Montana's done. Montana's today. Right? Yeah. It's done, too. That's what we're talking about. That'll be good. What do you mean? Do you go away to talk about your moose selection? No. It's not even exciting. It's nice to not. I don't care what state. It's nice to turn the page.

You know how there's buyer's remorse? You had applicant remorse. I wish I did points only.

I wish I had done points only. I'm like, why? I don't know. I just don't want to kill one of them big, beautiful animals. That's the funny part about this office. You sit in the office, and I'm sitting there just quietly minding my own business, and I hear, good luck. If I was a fish today, good luck trying to get me. You couldn't throw something in front of me. Get me off from under the log. Yeah. Heck, you can get me off from under the log for nothing. I'm the smartest bass in the pond. Throw the shiniest lure you got. This morning, he's like, I'm laying under the log with a chunk of power bait in my belly that doesn't feel right. Because I hit it. I hit it pretty hard. I swallowed it. I snapped the line. I've got a three-foot leader and a treble hook hanging out my lip. Garlic power bait. It's within a couple of hours, and he's hitting stuff left and right.

Carter got me to hit yesterday on some last minute stuff. Well, I did. I was thinking, you know, with Wyoming, why wouldn't we do a random? I'm going to hit that tag right there. Yeah. I know. For moose, no less. Did moose, but not sheep. How many decimal points do we have to put below 1%? How many decimal points below 1% odds do you think it's going to be? Before it really matters? I don't know. When you hit a couple of them, isn't that enough? That's in the thousands. I look at Nevada odds, and it makes me laugh. I'd like to portray them some other way. But what are you going to say? One in 14,000. No, it's not that bad. Anyway, kind of fun. Yeah. So here we are dealing with deadlines left and right, and we've got Nevada coming up as well, May 7th. So Montana, sheep, goat, moose, bison, that's over with by the time you all hear this. And then Nevada, May 7th, Oregon, May 15th.

I know Adam's super excited about that. I haven't applied there for about, let me get it now. Carry the wand. 18 years. Okay. Then Washington, again, Adam's super excited about it. May 28th, Montana, antelope, Adam, June 1, Iowa. That would be more along my lines. Of course, you've hunted it too. And on down the chain, Wyoming deer, antelope, things like that. All right. Where does that bring us, Bronson? Take us to the next subject. I don't know. John, did you want to talk about the EMAGs? Yeah. So just let you know, June, July, EMAG is live. May EMAG is live. So all that information is out there. For members, you can go click on it now. There's quite a delay, you know, for the time the printer gets it and the government, you know, takes care of delivery. The way you say government, I love it. Well, you're dealing with some postage stuff. We're not sure which account it's pulling from.

14 layers later. Anyway, keep going. So we were talking about some EMAGs. So we jammed a couple magazines together. That's what we do. We jammed May and then June. May would have been covered Arizona sheep, deer and bison, Wyoming, deer and antelope, Washington sheep, goat moose, Adams fave, and Iowa. So anyway, cram those together. Cranking them out. That's a good couple weeks to get rid of right there. Oh. They're rough. You know how good it feels right now? Anyway, they're cranking. And we're right in the middle of it, too. So I don't want to make too light of it. It is nice weather out there, though. We're excited about that. And then we cranked out June, Bronson. June and July, we covered Idaho, elk, deer, antelope, as well as another one of Adam's favorites, California. California. Let's talk about the guy. Everyone that he says is a favorite, I don't even, haven't ever applied in.

Who wrote? California. Doesn't have to be my favorite. All right. We got a 250-incher on the front cover from Idaho. It just goes to show you, Idaho's like one of my favorite states when it comes to genetics. It would be nice to kind of get out of this era of winter loss. Winter loss and drought. And drought in some units. Over the last seven to ten years. Yeah. And I think we're moving in the right direction. I don't know. This 250, it's like almost hard to believe it's from 2024. Like that they still grow like that. Yeah, it is. And this guy, this Tyler, awesome guy, obviously does incredible photography work, has live shots of this deer. It's like, I don't know. Yeah, it kind of feels like you're in a national park. He's just, I mean, it's like he's 50 yards, which he's not. He just has incredible equipment. His live image of it is amazing.

Imagine seeing that deer when he, about right now, this time last year when he had six-inch just shank and five-inch eye guard. Yes. I mean, geez, guy. Eye guard. Unbelievable. Genetics in Idaho are no joke. You know, age class could use a little help. And, of course, we're fighting, you know, here in Utah, too, to continue trying to keep some kind of an age class throughout different populations. But, anyway, that's obviously we've been, we beat that horse to that. Maybe that's for the next part. Yeah, so, but John. King John. John, how's the trapping escapades going? The trapping is going good. I don't know if we've even talked about it. Have we even talked about it? John's now become a trapper without a furbearer's license. Well, this all started, how did this start? The price of eggs started this. Yes. So the price of eggs. So then what did you do? So.

The price of eggs caused John to quit buying premium gas. We had, so we had, we had, yeah, we had some neighbors that are, that are old, very elderly. Right. And they were selling their house. They were going to move back, back Midwest to be closer to family. And they had chickens and they are already late. You know, they're late. That's, that was a gift. Yeah. So. Some of my chickens. So my wife was like, hey. There's a couple that lay. Let's build a, you know, let's, let's see if they want to get rid of their chickens. Well, I mean, typically they were desperate to get rid of their chickens, right? They were? So, yeah. Cause they had to move. Yeah. And had a deadline and nowhere for these chickens. I know how to get rid of chickens. Yes. But they, they do really well up the canyon. They're good layers. But they're also not, nobody's attached to them like they are a dog or cat.

They're not moving with them. No, no. So, no. They just didn't peck your eyes out. Anyway. If you passed out and laid on the ground, they'd peck your eyes out. IFA hatches new chickens every day. Yeah. Josh, you got chickens. Yeah. You're a chicken breeder. I am. Yeah. I feel like I'm in the minority. Don't you, Logan? My family has chickens, so I can't. Well, I am the only one here. Hey, they, and I have to pay. They fed our family for years. It's the only quote unquote pet that's ever done anything for me. I mean, I used to have a black lab that would get some ducks. So, John, so you. That's a good point. You filed adoption papers. We took them. I mean, but the whole process, just Dylan sometime. Okay. I'm getting older. Right. But sometimes we deal with really old people. They're just quirky and funny. Well, we're getting it.

And did they want to make sure they were going to a good home? Well. Did they interview you? No. So, I mean, we're neighbors. So, he knows me and whatnot. You guys are the quirky old people. Just looking at Logan like Logan. We know. We know. Go ahead. As I put on my readers. Daily experience. What are you talking about, Logan? So, I mean, just the whole process to get. So, I offered him a couple hundred bucks. Just. How many chickens? Mostly. There were eight chickens. Do the math on that. Let me do some. No, it wasn't a good. Let me do some egg math. Like, they were kind of in a spot and leaving and having to, you know, leave their home. So, it was. Just to expedite. And I got the coop, right? Wow. That's a big deal. Was it a movable? So. Kind of. You need the forks and the skid. It was kind of movable. Like, he thought it would be movable. No. Okay.

So, he insisted that he had this little tractor. I'm talking like, you know, one of the little John Deere's. Yeah. Bigger than like a riding lawnmower. It's called 27 horsepower. But like three times as big probably. You know? Or maybe it's. Probably like the one I got. A small. Like a 25 horsepower. Full size. It's probably like Pollux. Yeah. Yeah. It can do some things. He had. Yeah. But this thing, he built it out of two by fours and OSB board. And it was. Heavy. Heavy. Heavy. And he starts to try to. He like put the forks under it. And he starts to try to. Lift it. Lift it. The back end of the tractor goes up. Come on. So, Max, my 18 year old son and I. He had to sit on the back. We jumped on the back to try to. Still. It was going to pull that tractor over. Could not offset the weight. So, like for two days, I'm like, look.

I'm just going to take it apart so I can put it back together. And I just knew like we're going to get this thing. It's going to be all over the road. All over the hill. You had to move it a block or two? No. Just like three houses down. Oh, okay. But he's. Jumping curbs. He's above me on the hill. Yeah. Right? Well, I take enough of it apart that he can get it up. But the back wheels are still slightly off the ground. Oh, my God. And so, with both of us on there. And going downhill. Yeah. It could get enough traction to go forward. It could get enough traction. But once we started going down the hill. Oh. The back end came up. He had no brakes. Why did you not invite us to watch this? We had no brakes. I mean, where were we? It was so crazy. So, Max and I are leaning. Not just standing on the back. We're like hanging on with one hand. Putting the rest of our body out for weight.

Like as much as possible. Oh, my gosh. And he can't slow down. And it's just getting, you know. Oh, my gosh. Little. So, we start like kind of jumping. So, the brakes would hit like every three feet. Hold the bucket down. Put it on the ground. It was so sketchy. I was like this chicken coop is going to be all over the road. Like there's just no way we're getting it down there. Anyway. So, but, you know. Little by little it would break and break. And so sketchy. I know how this ends. Because John's been looking for bedding material. I know. Nesting material. I had no idea the back story of what we teed up for the trapping project. But this is a lot of back story. So, now John's the fox trapper extraordinaire. Anyway. And then we get. But we. How many nights did they spend unmolested? I've had them for probably six months or whatever. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. I've had them for a while.

So, this happened we didn't even know about. So, yeah. When did the break-in start happening? Oh, so then we had the fox incident where the fox got one of the chickens and killed it. Anyway.

They're not going to quit coming. Yeah. Now they know. So, then I'm like, okay. I got to trap them. But. And so, I went down and I got. But you live in a neighborhood. Yeah. But kind of in a rural. Like on the edge of like the mountain. So. Rural setting. Yeah. But we've got neighbors that are close and dogs and all that. So, I went to IFA and bought some foot traps. And, you know, I was going to put out the foot traps. Wow. Check it out. Okay. Sean, I have probably 80 of them. I know. But I got. I can't. They also have my number. And a number three. I don't want my trap number anywhere near up there. A number three is going to break the dog's leg. So. So, I was just looking at them on the seat next to me driving home. And I'm like, ah, just. Neighbor's dog's going to get in them or something. And I'm going to be hated. No. So, I still got them. But anyway. They got spacers?

So, instead, I got this giant live trap. And it's almost, well, a little bit smaller than the table. Which is five feet. Five feet by two and a half feet. This could fit a black bear. I could get inside it. No. Easily. Two people could get in there. It's big. Have a picnic. Okay. We're going to change this to the Epic Outdoors and Hunting and Trapping Podcast. Yeah. So, anyway. But long story short, I just, I wanted to make sure that I was legal. So, I went down to the DWR office. And they tried to encourage you to, don't worry about it. Yeah. Well. I'm sure it's a rad one. Yeah. They were just, you know, sure that it wasn't a fox in the rural area and whatnot. But the next day, I brought him a fox. There's not a gray fox living on a rock hillside in southern Utah. Yeah. So, anyway. Somehow that was. I took it to them and they relocated it. They were like, oh, it's not a red fox.

Expanded the species distribution. Absolutely. You're like, what do I do with it? Well, yeah. Drowning works really well. This is a fur bearer. Yeah. But I didn't, anyway. I didn't want to take any chances. Yeah. And then some other. Let them take care of it. Some other vermin have crept in and out. A different. Yeah. So, I caught two of those. And then. Two gray foxes. Now you've got. And everything's fine? No. And then. You took a time out. We've got a fair share of neighborhood cats. Had multiple nights in a row. Neighborhood cats. And anyway. But then. We're waiting for a mountain. Yeah. We get. We're waiting for. We get. We'll be touted. I mean. Yeah. Max recorded video. I mean. It's just the audio. Because it's dark. But the same. You know. Growling. That we've had on prior podcasts. That we've had on prior podcasts. That sounds really close to other mountain lion video that we've.

I want one. I just want the call. So. When that gets in that live trap. Yeah. We're actively. Pretty. Bye.

You mean when one gets into the chicken coop? Oh, I just. No. No. In the live trap. And John says. I got a problem. I thought. I thought we wanted to record that. So we could go out. And have fun. Calling in the new little puppies. No. I just want to see what that thing does to that live trap. And how far down you're. I would. Down the back. I don't know that it will hold it. But I've. I've reinforced it quite substantially. It's going to be. I just want to see it. So. Anyway. We'll see. But I told. I told my son. If we got a mountain lion. Don't go out there. Yeah. I know. Like. The cage is not going to hold it. If it's in it. So. No. Anyway. Very good. Yearling or something. It might. Might be. But we'll see. Very good. Very good. All for a couple eggs. Huh? Yeah. Yeah.

Hey. Eggs are expensive right now. I could have bought a few dozen eggs with the trap money. John's had $140 in fuel going back. Gas buddy. D.W. Yeah. Relocating projects. All right. Let's move along. Where are we at? John. When I was turning it over to you. I thought you were going to go down the roads of optics and tripods. Oh. What do you think? Yeah. Josh. Josh. And. Let's turn it over to you, Josh. I don't know where John's going to take it. It's exciting because we've just been. You've been speaking to neighborhood cougars. I got a story for you. Box after box. Oh, no. Okay. Okay. Logan, what are we at on? All right. Go ahead. We can't pass that story up, John. What do you need, John, from me? No. The neighborhood cougar story. What?

No. We've just been getting box and box after box the last couple of days, so it's kind of exciting. We've got some inventory on some stuff that's been either new released or harder to get. But anyway, pretty good. Yeah. So we just got our tripods all back in stock. You guys probably know we talked about it a little bit. We upgraded with size as well. It's a little bit bigger. Still very easily to pack, but it goes well with some of your bigger optics in the truck, side by side, something like that. But we all have our quick release head on there. I love that. And the guys that are getting them and they're trying them out, I've had them hit me specifically. They like it. Yeah. They like it. It's pretty slick. It's pretty easy. It's really nice. So they're great tripods. We're really impressed with them. And for the price, I went and compared a lot of similar other tripods and such.

And for the price, for the quality that they are, you're not going to get a better one. So definitely look into those. I would say it's the best fluid head on the market. For sure. And one of the reasons is we've really focused on that. I mean, we put a year into development of just the fluidity of the head. And we do a lot of videoing and a lot of phone scope out of a spotting scope. And one of my huge, biggest pet peeves is just you get a deer in there. It stands up. It walks 10 feet and beds down again. And you're trying to video it and move and find it. And there's too much tension. And it jumps. And it's just not fluid. And I think we just nailed it on the fluidity on that. So I'm really excited about how well that is. And then that quick release, you don't realize how awesome it is until you're glassing. And I don't know if everybody glasses like I do.

But it's back and forth between a spotter and binoculars constantly. I see anything with the binos. I don't study it for hours in my binos. I put the spotting scope on immediately. So right now, to switch between binos and a spotting scope, it's one lever. Boom, boom. You're a second and a half. Really cool. You're switched. Everything's still lined up, you know, if you're not crooked and you're straight. Very cool. You know, it's just bam, bam. And then there was a couple other little tweaks that you guys did. Obviously, you guys. You guys are kind of a hard knee department. But anyway, what, within centimeters of just a little bit of lengthening on the different legs and things like that? Yeah. On the new, let's call it the new model. But basically, it's identical. You just, we just get a little more height out of the same packability. And we're still under four pounds. Yeah.

And so it's extremely light. Very slight tweaks. Very slight tweaks that just maximize it. With the exception of the quick release, which is a significant change. Yeah, it is significant. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. So if you're going to get a tag and need a new tripod, whatever, look for ours first before you go anywhere else. You won't be upset about that. I mean, we've had zero complaints. We've sold a pile of them. So, yeah, don't really wait on gear right now. If it's something you think you need or you're going to want or need, just get it. And it'll be well worth your time to do that. And I'm just going to tell you, you need this tripod. Yeah. It's bad, eh? Yeah, you do. And you probably need one of each. Yeah. So you need three tripods. You do. And, you know, it goes back to when I told you guys, I want the absolute best money combined.

Like, when it comes to tripods, you're going to buy one very often. Yeah. And I just feel like it's priced that would make me question if this is the best on the market. It's cheap. In my mind, it's cheap for what it is. Yeah. And so then you're like, man, I don't know if this is going to compare to X, Y, Z. It's double the price. That must be a cheap. We can buy literally, I can buy anything I want. I'm willing to pay for an expensive tripod. If it was better, I would buy it. And I'm just saying it's not. You know. Yeah. And it's cheaper. And we cut out one or two steps of wholesale to retail pricing is what we did. And we're willing to buy whatever it is that's the absolute best. Yep. So anyway, enough of that. Let's crank it right along. I got some questions. Okay. Before we do that, there's a board meter going on today. Right? And so we've also talked about one. They finished before.

It was fast. The fastest one I've ever seen in my life. In Utah. Yes. Okay. Let's talk about that one. And then let's revert back to the Wyoming and some of the tag quotas or whatever. And then let's dive into these questions. Utah was kind of uneventful. Yeah. Logan. Other than Logan Junet. Logan. You guys spoke up at the RAC. And you were well rewarded. We were. We were overall reduced. That sentiment was loudly heard at the Southern Region RAC. Yeah. They did great. As well as the division then, I guess, called maybe reconsidered some things and brought that amended proposal to the Wildlife Board today and tag numbers were reduced. Other than that, I don't know anything monumental. Kind of as proposed. Once in a lifetime, elk was antelope. No. Jason, you would know. No. I mean, I've got some antelope plans, but they're not in Utah. So, yeah.

It was generally not too hotly contested this year. I guess that's the best way to put it. Okay. But it's over with. And so, that means, you know, I guess now they can go forward. Send that stuff to the draw company and the results will be out by the 15th. I can't think, you know, if you looked at draw, if you looked at some of the draw totals and permit numbers and all that stuff before, I don't think there was anything that was changed. No. We talked about those beaver. The general. But it's general there. Yeah. But other than that, like limited entry. I mean, there was a lot changed earlier, but as far as proposals to what was ratified. No. Yeah. Yeah. If you saw the proposals and saw a tag going to have an increase and give a max point tag or another max point tag, a lot of the sheep that we've talked about. Whatever was proposed. Desert sheep.

You know, non-resident tags for all the once in a lifetime for max point holders. Those types of things. Grouping of SKUs a little bit for the non-resident. Yeah. Loading non-resident tags. So, there's max point tags, minimum tags, bison, things like that. That happened. All right. And then the. Wyoming elk, you know, was probably, we got, you know, what is it, till May 8th you can amend an application. There was a lot more proposed than what actually got passed. So, you might want to go look at that online. They've got their amended, I guess their finalized regulations on there. Of course, for antelope and deer, those are out. You have till June 2nd to apply for those. So, if you see something on there that maybe changes your mind, you know, we went, when we went to print with that, we had to go with proposed numbers for deer and antelope.

When we went to print with the May magazine, they were just proposed at the time. They got ratified on the 22nd, 23rd of April. There were a few adjustments there. Definitely some on elk. But anyway, now you can't really change anything on elk in regard to regular and special, but you could change your unit selection if you want. Or you can still withdraw it. Yeah. If you want. If you're like, hey, got too much, pull it out. Yep. And so, anyway, yeah, all of that. So, yep, the sheep, I mean, obviously random and five moose, 25, 26, 38, all of that has random. So, anyway, it was good. Interesting to see who draws. We're going to have those results in about a week. That's right. We also have cranked out our epic membership drive, world-class hunts. Yeah. Like crazy, giving away Mexico desert, the moose-grizzly combo, an Acoma elk, Nevada elk,

Nevada mule deer, Alberta whitetail, which I went on this hunt last year. Not the exact week. I went one week prior, but same outfitter, same experience. Just incredible. It was awesome. And Alberta wolf hunt for two hunters as well as a $15,000 gear prize, $15,000 hunt credit. I mean, there's a lot going on in this membership. All the giveaway before June 23rd, and here it is, May 1st. Just basically announcing this. Time is flying. Yeah, basically announcing. I mean, it's not going to be Long Bronson, and we're going to be in a pine box. Whoa. Jeez. Jeez. It feels. Logan. Every day. Cut that. No, I know. Leave it in. Jeez. Pine box dictates what you do in life. Are you talking about a box blind somewhere? I just thought he was going. Are you talking about six feet under? What are we talking about? I don't know. All right. It depends on how you take care of your body.

You just got to be grateful for the time you have here. Yes. All right. So moving right along. Bronson, question reader guy.

Let's go along. Maybe just some of these questions over the course of time. I can't let you guys peek because some of you guys, when you peek, you have – I like the initial thoughts when I read these from you guys, not a premeditated answer. Okay? So we're going to try to finish up most of these. We are going to have to do another one next week. Oh, there'll be some. Josh's responses are epic. Yeah. Okay. Well. I've been chasing cougars in the woods. So here we go. Here's one. I've got one for Josh in a minute because Josh will definitely have an answer to this next one. But let's talk about – there's a question coming. How do you guys decide what season to apply for? Does your schedule or weather affect that? You know, season, I'm assuming, earlier, later, maybe even weapon type. I don't know what that's necessarily referring to, but my schedule usually dictates that. Yeah.

You know, archery, we all know usually you better plan on more scouting and more time for that. And so for – whether it be deer elk, that's an early season, you know, August, early September. Some years, for whatever reason, you know, whether it be me or a family member that I think is going to draw something in there, I'll end up maybe bumping something. And if I feel like I have the points to force the draw, I'll bump it to a rifle tag that year because of my schedule. Weather or the moon, you know, I guess you lump all that in. Sometimes that has an impact, but it's my personal schedule or what I think my kids are going to draw. I think also a little something that plays into it, and I listened to you tell me this basically without telling me, is when you were looking at a mint in your Nevada and you were like, oh, do I really – is it really ripe enough for me to want this this bad?

And that would dictate, like, what seasons you're willing to do. You know what I mean, too? And so, like, if we want it really bad, this – there is no question this is the best year we've ever seen for deer in Nevada, for example. You would be doing the most aggressive application strategy possible versus, oh, I only want the two best. Give me anything. Yes. There are some years we apply that way. Some years don't feel that way. In general, I would say this year is maybe not that kind of year that give me any tag anywhere. Feels like a good solid average or something, you know. Yeah, you know. And there's kind of a question a couple down from this one. Nilsson Lance – well, no, sorry, wrong one. Ethan Shoup, Ethan.Shoup, is less more when it comes to the number of tags you have a year? And I would – Less is more.

My answer would be less is more unless it's one of those years we're just talking about. Then give me everything because I can make them all work pretty good. But less is more. That's the problem I've personally had. When I was young or – Like what, three years ago? No. Like 5, 10, 15, 20 years. If I had one tag, I made the absolute max out of it. Yeah. You know what I mean? And now it's like you get a little bit older, you've got some points, you can command some draws. And you're doing it. And you're doing it. And you're doing it. And generals in Arizona and generals in Utah. And then add a few draw tags. I might even buy a landowner tag. And then pretty soon here I am. I'm so tag rich. And I'm like – and I have less time than I had when I was then – when I was young. You know what I mean? And so anyway, I think less is more.

I think you keep it in mind and keep that focus of I'm going to make this the best ever and do one or two or something like that within a particular species. And if you draw elk or gays, draw antelope, kill them all, whatever. I think there's truth to that, especially when things – whether it be post-winter kill in a few states, which has occurred, and kind of post-drought in a few states, which has occurred, it's tougher everywhere right now. We've said it until we're blue in the face how tough it is to find and kill big mule deer right now. So giving yourself four or five big mule deer tags, you might say, hey, it gives me the chance to kill one. But you're probably spinning your wheels to kill one good one is if you had one or two decent to good tags. Yeah. I would say. But you get in one of those grooves like we had back, you know, let's call it 2017, 19. Give me just – 2019?

Give me everything I could have. 2019, I wouldn't have left Nevada. Yeah. You would have – Figured out how to get more and more. Mortgage, motorcycles, sold stuff that you needed to buy more landowner tags or something just for that year. Yeah. I would have sold some things. Yeah. I would have sold bows and grandpa's guns and whatever. I think something that a lot of times gets overlooked by a lot of guys, especially just, you know, last week with that Utah deadline, talked to a lot of guys about that. There's – not all units or every hunt on every unit is considered equal either. Yeah. A lot of guys, there's some units in Utah that actually the archery or the muzzleloader hunt might be better. Or there's some of our elk units that a late rifle is actually one of the best units on the – or best hunts on the unit. And a guy is surprised to hear that. What? No way.

I hadn't even thought about that. I had the points because they wanted to do something else. And you're like, no, this is actually – and you could draw this. And they're like, geez, I really wanted to go, but I didn't – you know, you just don't think that, oh, maybe a November rifle hunt is actually the best hunt on the unit. And so that's why something – And that's counterintuitive with elk. Yes. You just think the ruts when you hunt them. Yeah. But there are units that load up in November from neighboring units that has – I don't know, you and I are both biologists there in the past. But there's like Mount Dutton or some other – your beaver. We have a bunch of big birds. You can hunt them. You can hunt that unit late. Yeah. Three units fill into this other one for later.

Or I don't know, there are certain parts of some of our general season deer units or whatever that there's portions of those units that will actually be vacant of deer by the rifle hunt. Yes. And so you're like, actually, the archery hunt, if you're going to want to come hunt certain parts of this unit or whatever, are actually better. That's better. Because there's twice as many deer there. Or deer in general, whereas you come in a late rifle, there's not a single deer there. That's a good point. Very good point. Or like even Zion has – let's just take Zion. So much private land. Yeah, that's what it is. So much private land, the earliest. Yeah, there's a national park, and the national park is then surrounded by big private. You want a little bit later when you can hunt these bucks. Or if you're a big landowner, then great, you'd go early. Right.

But for most of the average guy, like they just look and say, oh, I can draw the – because the Zion was one I talked about. You know, guys say, hey, I can draw the Zion. I'm like, all right, it would be good. But actually, you want to do it later. And then also, you need to be aware that if you do do it later, there's going to be a little bit of pressure. A lot of concentrated people. Because those bucks go down. They love the winter range. So you can hunt them. But that's where people go. So I think having a service like ours, because trying to figure all that stuff on your own, or you're not going to find it in a guidebook, or you're going to try to look on a state's hunt planner. You can't do it for everything. To have the ability to give us a call and say, hey, let me run this by you or something. We could probably throw out some ideas that you didn't even know you had.

And then next thing you know, you've got a tag in your pocket from some of that. So I think some of that, too. We do say that a lot. Especially a lot of guys think, say, the Henry Mountains deer tag. You know, a rifle deer tag on the Henry's would be amazing. Well, actually, a lot of the bucks could be dead by the time you get there. I wouldn't, no. So if you're just a rifle hunter, then yeah, it's a great option. But if you have the ability to hunt a muzzleloader or archery or something, you may want to consider that. And you could run into a little bit of draw odds, too. Because not everybody's just sitting there waiting for a rifle tag. So those are some things that I tend to look at when I look at some units and such. Yeah, I think it's great. I think those are great, valid points. And I think we do take in a lot of information ourselves. We've been alive for a long time, huh, Logan?

We're old. So anyway, we do have a lot of information and personal experience. But we also take in a lot of information from a membership who are well-versed. Come back, give us good feedback about their hunting. And that's true. Yeah, across every state, there's stuff that shines in the mule deer world early, early seasons. And stuff that shines late, and it's vice versa. You know, good late, not good early, or vice versa. Colorado, you have units like that, too. Anyway, good point. Along with that, last question maybe regarding some of these dates. There's a question that says, about the muzzleloader hunt in Nevada. Since Nevada is open still for another week, question is for Nelson Lance. Do you think the muzzleloader tag in Nevada is a good hunt? I'm assuming he's talking mule deer. Maybe he's talking elk. We can lightly talk about that.

But, you know, there's so many more mule deer muzzleloader hunts than there are elk. And I'm assuming maybe he's referring to that September 10 to October 4. That's generally. It's a good, that's where 90% of the standard, it's a good hunt. I love that hunt. If you can deal with the open sight muzzleloaders, it's a good hunt. Generally, there's less tags on that season than the archery. Than even archery. Yeah. It's crazy. Now, the late rifles on a few, 131, 221, whatever, there's a lot less tags there. But that muzzle is kind of special. You can kill them. It's an open sight state, but you can still kill them there in a summer pattern. Early enough. Goes for basically just under a month. I mean, what else does that? I love the season. There's so many good things about that season. Low tag numbers before you. Archers don't kill that many of them. Then you get a month to have your fun.

Some of those bucks are still in like a summer type pattern. They totally are. Barely coming out of velvet, but they're still bachelors. They're in that same routine. So any scouting you do that you do in the summer or trail camera running you can do and catch bucks, they're going to be in the same spot. Even jumping over to elk like what you brought up, you know, maybe you mentioned elk. Elk is good, too. We never give it enough credit, I think. It's that late October. It's before the rifle hunts. Yeah, it's before the rifle. It's not really a rut hump. How many years do we talk to people? I think it's like October 22nd or something like that. There's sometimes hunting bugle and bulls still. It's crazy. You don't naturally think that, but some units are like, holy cow, they're going crazy. That's what happens when there's in states, low pressure. Low pressure. They just.

It goes back to Colorado. These deer want to rut. And if there's low pressure like, say, a unit 10 in Colorado, they'll rut in the second season. Yeah. Yeah. Earlier than other states. So anyway, I agree. I think that's an underutilized season. If you can do it. Season. And you look at the odds and you could say, well, that's not really a secret. Yeah. They're bad odds. Bad odds no matter what. Odds, again, have applicants and tag numbers make up the odds and tag numbers are brutal. So, but a great option. One of your five picks. We great. One of your five picks. And you're hunting them before all the bulls are dead. And you know what's interesting? The late rifle, you ought to always think, man, I'm the last guy on the unit. It's a late rifle for elk. Here we are on a whole different subject. He was talking about that. What's your weather like, you know, late November? Okay. It's cold.

Should we call it? I mean, you're talking electric vests. Negatives. Maybe heater body suits, you know. It's brutal. But having said all that, there's giants that are killed on the very last season. It's unique. Some of the best bulls will be killed on the very last season. And say it's a 221 to 223, 231 or 111 to 115. So, anyway, pretty interesting on that. Yeah. So, any season you can get a tag for elk, you should be doing it. You should. Yep. All right. Here's a little fun one. I'm trying to team this up for Josh and Logan. I like it. Because, and maybe John. I like it. But not me and Jason. But, I mean, you're going to know when I ask you why I say this. But this is a question. I don't even know who said it. This could have been. Logan, you could have planted this on here. I don't know. Probably. It doesn't even have a name. It says, what is the wildest thing or person.

This is going to get weird if you, you know. Or person. And you saw at the 2025 Utah Hunt Expo. Craziest thing or person. The strangest person was Cash, for sure. By far. What do you mean? You and Cash have this love-hate relationship. There's no love. It's just hate. I mean, you guys walk into each other's office and go, you're ugly. You're stupid. Yeah. Today he asked me how my suspension on my truck was doing on the left side. Because I'm so fat, I'm going to break it when I hop in. Jeez. Yeah. He's got some good ones. Josh, you guys were there a little longer in setup period. There's a reason I said that. John, maybe at some point. During setup and all the time, I didn't leave the booth, literally. So, what? I didn't, I can't think of anything crazy or wild that I saw. Person. I do know a guy. St. George. We all know him.

Some of his outfits. Gold suit. You know, Trevor. It's pretty hard. You don't. Davenport. Even when we get there early, it's set up and stuff. You just don't leave that 50-foot spot. Yeah. No. Like, I remember we did eight miles one day. Eight miles on my Apple Watch in a 50-foot booth. You guys got to wear out the car. Really? Setting up. Oh, yeah. You're serious? That's possible? It's almost two setup days. Yeah. It's insane. Oh. Because you're just walking back before the back. Did you think of something, Logan? I did. I did. I don't know if this counts as in the expo, because I was walking out of the expo doors. Okay. I was at the hunt convention, and I'm walking out of the doors, and me and Josh are about to go get dinner. And I see this 2005-ish 1500 Silverado. 2025? Or 2005? 2005. Sorry. 2005. Older. Silverado. Jacked up. Pimped out.

And it is flying down that road right in front of the expo where it's got the- State Street? Where it's got the thing that dips down into the parking garage. Oh, yeah. That's right. The back truck. Yeah. I kid you not. He's going easily 50 or more miles an hour, driving like he stole it, which in hindsight he probably did. And he loses control of that thing and clips that metal rail that guards the thing going down into it and just destroys the truck. And the guy at the hotel I was staying at runs out and is like standing next to his window and said, I'm going to call the cops. You got to stop. You got to stop. And the dude inside the truck is just freaking out, jerking his wheel back and forth, going back, going forward. Finally, he realizes he can't get it off the rails. And the hotel guy is on the phone with the cops. And you can hear the sirens coming down the street.

And that dude gets out, books it 50 yards. And then he gets into a crowd of people. And me and two other guys, including the guy on the phone with the cops, are just walking with him probably 20, 30 yards behind him. You're walking with the guy that drove the truck? Yeah, I was right there. I thought I was going to be a witness because I seriously watched the whole thing happen. And so I'm just following the guy. And this other guy is on the phone with the cops. He's looking at you, giving the eye like, hey, we got to stay with this guy. Yeah. Yeah. And so me and two other guys. You're now, what do they call that? Citizens arrest type volunteer? That's right. He was like two foot long. Like he would have taken Josh down in a heartbeat. What do you mean? He's a big guy. He was big and scary. That's saying something. Nobody's taking down my Viking. Nobody. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

So, yeah, anyway, he books it ahead of us. He gets into this crowd of people. He puts his hood on and he puts his hand in his pockets. And he's just sleeking away. He goes across the road, just walking all casual. The cops get there and put him down on his knees and handcuff him and toss him in the back. How did they find him? We were following him the whole time. The guy was... Were you doing this thing? Yeah, the guy... I wasn't pointing. Just in case, witness protection. But... The guy was pretty legit. He's done this before. Yeah. No, he was cool as a cucumber walking across the road just like nobody would notice. And the guy on the phone was saying, hey, he just crossed State Street. He's at the train station. And they grabbed him. They grabbed him at that train station. Just down there further to the north. Yeah. Yep.

And arrested him, chucked him in the cop car and interviewed the guy that was on the phone. I asked. I was like, can I go? And he's like, were you guys together when it happened? I said, yeah, we saw the same thing. He's like, yeah, you're good. So I went and got Josh and we got dinner. Were you there, Josh? That's poor investigative work. That's poor investigative work. I would have wanted his statement too. Yeah, I know. That's kind of what I thought. I was waiting. I could see all the... I walked out because we were staying in different hotels. And so I walked out because I was supposed to meet him because he's like, I am leaving right now. And I'm sitting out in front. It's a two-minute walk. Adam, you and I were working in the booth. I don't know where I was. We were in the booth. No, when was this? I might have been asleep by then. Holy cow.

So this is an hour and a half or so later when I came back. He totally totaled that truck. It is destroyed. It's got a bumper. Dude, that's a... It was a tricked out truck. That is a ranch hand bumper from Texas. That's why we were thinking he stole it because it looked like a truck that would be at the Huntsville. It was like the night before the expo started. It was one of the set-up nights, wasn't it? Oh, it could have been. I think it was like one of the set-up nights. He definitely smoked that. Yeah, it was a set-up night. Okay, well, that answers that question. I don't know who else. That's the craziest. I can't top it. I mean, you got Corey Whitaker, honorary shout-out to him. He was dressed up in a monkey suit driving a unicycle. Corey Whitaker. Oh, really? Yeah, just giving out flowers. Anyway, yeah. Is that Megan's husband? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He was in.

I didn't know who it was, and then I found out later. Oh, yeah. That was, I mean, that's just slightly creepy. That's a guy who's comfortable in his own skin. He is. Was he the dude? There was a dude dressed like Elvis or something at the one night giving Rosie's to play some Valentines? Yeah, all kinds of stuff. I didn't know who that was either. Okay, well, all right. There's some freak show stuff from the expo right there. Onward. All right, next one.

Let's see. There's two of them. Oh, well, this is a quick and easy one.

Calvin. Calvin Goog from Kansas. Jason, we know him. Yeah, he's a good dude. How big of a non-typical mule deer would you say is equal to a 200-inch typical? Well, let's just say 200-inch net. Oh, heavy? Jason. Don't talk about the eye guards now. Multiple eye guards? I mean. Just what would you all say? 200-inch typical is really hard. Think about this. It is. I want to bring Justin's buck in so you guys could look at it. Well, and even that one that you have that's like. We never even got to see it. I want to show it to you. I'm going to bring it in tomorrow. I don't know where to put it because Justin's gone for a minute. But even your buck that's a net's 197 or 8. Like, even that deer. That's so rare. They are so rare. I never gave typicals enough credit in my life. Well, they. I was always taught trash is cash. It did feel, though, like 10, 15 years ago.

Like when the Henrys were cranking, we spent so much time. Hunting on typicals, you guys did. You had nothing to kill a buck typical every year. You had three to four or five of them. You're after the buck that added up a trash 220, 230 bucks. But now. But now. But now. I'm a magic. Yes. Let me. Yes. Let me. Bronson, you can have the tag of your dreams. Go kill a net booker. Typical. It's hard to do. It is. This day and age. Hard to do. I remember Marvin James. He hunted the strip on a drought year. The biggest. And he killed a net book typical. But it was. There was nothing. I mean, it was awesome for the year. It was amazing. You know what I mean? Just heavy. One of them heavy old strip bucks. So what do you think? Anyway, I don't know. What do you think? Like a. I mean. 240? Yeah. You could say that. If it's net 200. Because I mean a net 190. Boone and Crockett.

This doesn't end perfect. But a net 190 quote equals a net 230. If you. If you think that. But there's probably more net. When 90s taken. Yes. Annually. Than a 230 net. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So. I would say a net 200. It might be like a two. Feel like today. 245. 50 bucks. What? Wow. Even bigger than 240. Really? 240 is big. But. But 200 net. I'm talking net. How many of those. Can you think of the last. Three to five years? No. It's true. And you can think of some 250 net non-typicals. Or 240s to 50s. Yeah. You can. So I think you're in that range. But what if they're standing next to each other? Which one do you choose? I mean. You know. Depends on how they're built. Trashy. Heavy. Like fatty. Because it kind of comes down to like a. Pipe mass. Yeah. 35 wide. A 420 straight. 8 by 8 with triple I lines. Is like probably my dream elk. Would be a. Dream boat. 420 straight 6. Oh. Me too.

I mean not. I don't want a non-typical 420 elk. I want a 6 point. Oh. Me too. Me too. So it's kind of different. But a deer if it's. Oh. Heavy and. Heavy. 200. Boxy. Boxy. Not a. Beautiful. It really can't cheat. It's a 4 by. A 5 by 5 with the eye guards. It can't really cheat yourself to 200. It's either is or it's not. Yeah. So. It's going to be big. Okay. Yeah. But there's like a spindly one right out here. That nets 198. Yeah. Right here in our office. There are some that don't look at. Yeah. Yeah. You show net. It's full of beams. It's big beams. Big G4s. But I would say most times. Most times the net non-tip's getting a bullet every time. Oh. Yeah. It is. But for me and probably all of us. Me too. I mean. Yeah. Jeez. Because you. Yeah. But you get a good wide boxy. Big fatty eye guard. Your typical 20 inches of mass are better. I mean. Jeez. What. Jason.

The Nevada buck that's above your desk. What is it? Gross 207. Like nets 198. 7 or 8. Yeah. The one. That's the one I'm talking about. The weighted eye guard. That one is just. So impressive. But they're four and a half inch eye guards that are two inches wide. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like just. It has some things that you just want to. It adds. It adds. That's another one that like. It's. There's 200 inches that look 210. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where are those days? You know. That's what it just. It's just. We're not even hunting. You know. When we got started killing big stuff. When we were kids. And Logan was still. I don't know. We can't say. Not even. Logan. Logan wasn't even. I'm not even sure if he was an egg yet. He might have been. But. But just think about. The times that have changed since. It's just. Not even. In the same era. And I'm looking back then.

And we had the old. Krusty dudes that were big buck killers back then. Tell us that we were. Might as well give up. That we're not seeing nothing. Right. Yeah. And then we had some good years. What we thought were good years. And now we're telling the young guys. It's not even worth. Buying a tank of gas. Go. Go ride your dirt bike out at three peaks. And enjoy it. I mean. Don't. Don't go scouting. What are you going to scout for? There's nothing left. And. And. And. It's just hard to believe. They said that to us. They said that to us. Because it had been that long from the 60s and 80s. Yes. When they just reveled in their era. And we were in that. Up until that 92, 93 winter. We. Yeah. We were in the 90s and early 2000s. Yeah. And. We had winners and drought. We were like. What are you talking about? I can go find a big buck. Yeah. Yes. And now. Now we got our kids. Now we're telling.

Now we got our kids that are. Go. Gung ho. And go. Dad. I want to get it. We're just like. Sean was talking to the shed buyer. And said. Have you had any big deer sheds? Like. Where's all the big deer sheds on the ground? He's like. I only knew of one. It was like a 10 year old crusty. That was 103 inch or something. The other thing is. About a big deer shed though. They're so rare. They're like finding. A pile of 50 arrowheads in one pile. If you found a brown set. Or an axe head. I've never found that. But I mean. If you find. Yes. A big deer set or shed. You don't sell them anymore. No. I mean. You don't. People don't. You keep them. You put them next to your bed. Yeah. You sleep with them. For three years. But anyway. They're just so rare. Everything's just telling you how rare it is. And elk seems to be. Yeah. Fairly good. Can't get a tag. But it's. Elk go to dog chews. Yeah.

Mule deer sheds get kept. They don't go to sell. All right. Let's move along. Okay. I like it. All right. Speaking on the deer. On the deer three. Nevertheless we're hunting deer harder than we ever have because you can't give up the dream. You know what I mean. Yeah. Let's talk about. Look at the cover of our last magazine. Yeah. That gives you hope. Things still dream. Jeez. It does. And you know that guy's done it a couple of times. Yeah. Like I have a feeling he knows what he's doing. Probably hunting. Familiar country. Stuff that we talk about. A lot. Probably this day in age when stuff's tough. Stick to what you know the best. I like it. Okay. Big buck stories. Tell them about the one that got away. Inside what you could have done different. On a big buck story. I only have really. I have a couple. I. Yeah.

Jason. We've told these stories. Jason can't think of one that got away. No I do. Yeah. Colorado buck.

I know one of mine of Colorado. I couldn't do anything. Remember when I shot and I was through the grass. It was like the yellow grass. Oh yeah. I thought I could do nothing. And just. I mean if I could have done it different. We chilled out. Yeah. Just talk about that part. Not the buck. Just better. Just better execution. Like. Prone. Instead of prone and not. Or maybe just get above the brush. Like just a couple things. Just better execution. Come to find out. One of my base screws was loose. Well and. That's the one I've been talking about. The now I need to re-scope. Yeah. I just put it in the safe and said I'm done with you. And that was like the most amazing gun ever. You know. Ashley's first bucks. And just an awesome gun. But then it did me wrong. And. Sometimes. Cost me. Well over two hundo. You know. And. Anyway. There you have it. I'm disgusted.

I don't want to talk about this question. I don't know if. I mean I've got the one in unit 18 that I shot with you Jason. Oh. Oh my gosh. That's a good start. That is a. That is a nightmare. Yeah. It was horrible. That one was one. I was too picky. And I was like. John. Come shoot this one. Had to be 190. You did. And I did. And it dropped. It dropped. And there was blood. Just creased. And this is not. Like a fin off the back. Yeah. What do you call it? Like a vertebrae. Yeah. It went under the backbone I think. And above everything else. I don't even know if it did that. It almost like it. We were killing stuff. We were killers back then. And. And it was like. We were so confident. That thing dropped. Walk over there. Where'd the buck? Where'd the buck go John? I looked for it for three days after you left. It was. It floundered around. Creased the back. We watched it floundered around.

It got on its feet. We were tracking it in the snow. Yeah. And walked away. Yeah. In front of our eyes. You just. It would have walked away in front of our eyes. You just. Shock paralyzed it. Yeah. And realized. I'm okay. I'm out of here. John smashed it. It was cold. It was so cold. You remember that? So cold. Yep. Man. Yeah. Jeez. So. To follow up. That was a mid 90s. Yeah. To follow up that. It was a good deer. It might have been my best deer ever. You kill. You keep shooting him. It might have been. That other one. You shoot him again. Yeah. And again. Yeah. Yeah. One shot kills mean nothing to me. He went down and he was on the opposite side of the ridge. Oh. That's right. So we couldn't actually see him down. But. That's right. We have video. He dropped. Like. Saw that buck before the hunt started. Remember? Yep. Like the day before the hunt started. Yep. And I was like.

We're going to kill this buck. John. Let's do this. Yeah. That was really. That was a gut wrencher. Yeah. Yeah. Darn it. I had another deer get away that was giant. Giant. Giant. And then. But I think a lion ate him or something. Like it was one of those. We hunted 30 days and he literally was gone. Just. He was gone. Disappeared. Yeah. He was gone. And then never showed up the next year. No sheds. No buck. No deadhead. No. I mean. I don't know. It was just gone. Like it was done. You know. It was like a figment of your imagination.

Pollock. You've had some stuff get away. Yeah. You've said. That sounded leading. I'm kind of interested. I don't know what. I'm missing here. I just love it when everybody else gets a little mental anguish. I've told stories before and whatever. So. Yeah. I've done nothing new. But I think back just from last year. That bull that I hit. Yeah. Up here. You know. I don't know as far as score wise that he would have been any better than the bull I killed. But he would have been more impressive if that makes sense. You know. Just. He was just. Heavy. And just bigger. Or frameier. You know. That bull I killed. He's got really long points. But this bull just had. He walked away and said. Well that was. Where's the next cow? I mean. He could carry us. That was probably hit the same thing as John. Just creased the top of the back. Yes. Basically. And stun shocked him. Paralyzed him.

He's still alive right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Those vertebrae are what? Seven, eight inches off the top of those bulls. Yeah. Above their spine. Yes. Exactly. And it barely hit the top of it. So it didn't even. Yeah. Broke the skin. It didn't even do anything. It was a bummer. Did it change his pattern? You didn't find him. You saw him. After. You know he's. You know he lived. Yeah. Yeah. He was rotten cows. But then he was. He was like. I'm kind of over this Pollock guy down here. This Viking keeps throwing lead at me. Yeah. It sucked. So you just think about that. Because I was going through the other day. Some videos and stuff. Trying to throw some videos together. And that. And I was just like. Anyway. Mainly. Because. Yeah. Well. The shot I hit him might have been my second shot. First one. The first one was. Was a shank. Yeah. Did you shank the first one? Oh yeah.

I don't even know what I did. Did we. Did we know that? I don't know that you disclosed that. I think. I think. We saw. It was. The shot. I think. We saw the shot. That you showed us. I think we talked about it. Possibly. But. I don't know. And then you turn around. And like. When I killed that New Mexico bull. Like. I think about the shot I made on that bull. And. I was like. Jeez. I was just thinking about it. Even last night. I'm like. I don't actually know how I. I don't know. Because there's some things you just. It's so automatic. You just get down and do. And so. I was like. Jeez. I was. I was thinking back at it. I'm like. Jeez. That was. Actually a pretty good shot. But. Anyway. But yeah. It's. So it sucks. When the ones that get away. Because it eats at you for a long time. Especially nowadays. You got one. You got one. Yes. Probably one opportunity in a hunt. Is a.

And sometimes you don't have any. A lot of times nowadays you don't have any. But one on something special. You better make it happen. Which goes back to why we put so much money in the gear. Yeah. The time. Yep. And the effort. All the time and effort and energy and gas. And you know. I mean. Logan buys a new dirt bike. Go have a good hunt. You know. I mean. There's a lot going on on this hunt. And. But anyway. So you want to make it happen. All right. Does anybody have a story of one that should have gotten away. And just. By luck. Pure luck. It didn't. Yeah. What do you mean? Yep. Yeah. I've been really lucky in my life. Some shots. You mean. Yeah. Just like. Some that come to mind. That's like. I got one for you. This is. This is an antelope. Okay. It's my Arizona antelope. Remember. Oh. Remember this story. Yeah. It's my favorite. And this was just like. Kind of.

Kind of like Jason's. But different. Yeah. In that. This thing is dead. I. It's 350 yards. Antelope. Yeah. And I'm on shooting sticks. Because. Antelope country. You can't always bipod down. Because if you've got grass. It's 18 inches. 20 inches tall. You can't do that. So. You know. I didn't have. You know. This was a little bit before. Now we got. You got a shooting vise. Put it on our tripod. Slip it in. And that's made antelope hunt. Yeah. Because you're. A lot of times you maybe. Just have to stand up out there. This thing. You know. You're belly crawling. Kind of up there. This thing's out there. Rutting his does. And I slipped my shooting sticks. You know. Just your homemade. Coyote hunting shooting sticks. They were awesome. Slipped my gun up in there. And when I shot. My gun. Was just being held. In the brush. It wasn't even. They weren't even. On the ground. On a solid stick.

They weren't even on the ground. And I just thought they were. Because you're trying. You're poking up. I shoot. My whole gun falls like. Six inches straight down to the ground. Like. And. And he just took off running. And I'm like. Oh no. This is my pre-scouted number one buck. And it was just like. And it's a chip shot. Yeah. Like. It's just a top pin. You know. Dial. 350. And now. He's running straight away. And I'm. The way I don't do. And I. He's doing. He's going through 35. 40 mile an hour. And I had a friend of mine. 45. Hitting 50. Eric Hunt. You know him in Arizona. Yeah. Arizona Desert Outfitters. Great guy. He. He knows unit 10 for elk and whatnot. He's like. Oh. Good job. Well he's. Yeah. He's not with me. He's. He's spotting over here. And so now I'm like. Oh my gosh. And. And now. When you get an antelope running. 50 miles an hour straight away. The range finder. You don't.

No. By the time you range. To get on your gun. It's another 100 yards difference. Right. So all I did. I love this. I put it literally. Right on his butt. And then. And just went high. I shot. Because. You don't have time to. No. You know he's out there 500 and something now. I shot. Clipped the top of his butt. It went in and out. The top of his tailbone. About six inches. Hit him right in the back of the head.

Folded him. And he was done. And just. Oh my gosh. And I remember. I remember Eric like. Bro. That was a shot. And I'm like. Well. Yeah. It was kind of like Pollock. Like. You know. The first one. I don't know. What happened. The second one. Just remember that. So. That was one that should not. I should not. We got brain scattered for 10 yards. Well hey. Well hey. It didn't. Didn't like break it. But it broke the skull. I kept that buck for like 17 months. Kind of wondering. You know. Waiting for it to get mounted. I never scored it. Because I thought. Like a deer and an elk. You break that. You can't get a score. Yeah. Well. Antelope isn't like that. You don't have an inside spread. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know you could score it. Until I ran into. Huh. Brent. Oh really? BC. Come on. And I'm like. You can score that? Come on. I gotta get this mount.

I killed the big. He says. Oh. You don't. You can get that scored on an antelope. Huh. Come on. Maybe I shouldn't disclose that. They're gonna strip it out of the buck. How cool is that? But anyway. It'd been like 18 months. Cause I was just waiting for it to get mounted. I think Josh. You and Russell mounted the buck for me. But. But anyway. I guess cause there's no inside spread. I don't know. I don't know that about a sheep too. Maybe sheep wouldn't matter. If you broke a skull on a sheep. Moving right along. Well anyway. So that's one. I should not have killed that. I love that story. I love that story. I just. So make sure like Jason. Just the same principle. This thing is toast. Just. I've done it. And my gun. I remember the recoil. It fell 10 straight inches down. And I'm like. Whoa. That was not. Better. Better. Better. Anyway. So. Anyway. Man. What else Jason?

You wanna talk about one of yours that got away? No. No. I'm good. Dude. I think we should wrap it up. We've been in here for an hour and six minutes. Yeah. Let's wrap it up. Well the last one. One last question. Well. That's just. This is the. This is a wrap up question. The other one is what a big buck taught you. But that's similar to the one we talked about. So. Last question of this page. Thought on this year's mild. Very dry winter. I'm seeing animals on summer range. Maybe 8,000 feet or higher. Rather than being on the normal winter ranges. Will it. Will a big late spring snowstorm. Kill off our deer herds. No. That hasn't happened. But what has happened is a lot of good spring snowstorms. I will say that. It's weather. It's over contract now. It feels cold. Like I turned in my water. Ticks me off. You know. Turn it in my water. I guess we've talked about this on a prior podcast.

And I just can't get over it. Because. And I haven't turned it back in. It's just a cold. It feels like the cold is extending. Yeah. Yeah. You know. And we got really warm. And we're like. Everybody's out frolicking. Turn in the water. Wife's ready to get the yard going. Last thing I want to do. Because that means you've got to mow job for the rest of your life. It feels like. And anyway. Now I took it out. I aired it out. Blew it out. And all the good things. And then. I haven't turned it back in. It just feels wet. Moist. Cold. That kind of. Early summer. I hate to tell you what I found. Because I didn't turn mine off. Remember. Did you. Did it break? I got. I got some squirters. Because you don't have as much. You're smarter. A lot of mine. You did a lot. A lot of mine. A lot of mine is rock landscaping. And they're drips to trees and brushes and all that. Well. They're not buried.

So what. What is that prone to? And he's like. I'm not turning mine out. I'm not blowing them out. And I'm like. I'm blowing mine out. I didn't really blow them out. I just shut it all down. So it wouldn't be. Wouldn't be pumping water during the cold days. I had. I walked out the other day. And I. Got some geysers. Dude. It got 20. Squirting at me from 50. 50 feet. I'm like. Jeez. My luck is that. I'd fill my basement full of water. So I'm just. Yeah. I'm nervous. Anyway. So yeah. I had a. One of those. Heads that drips. With all the black hoses going out of them. About three in each direction. Yeah. I've got spider. Spider. Good thing about our snow storms now. As they melt. Fast. Yeah. I think it's good. I actually think it's going to be interesting. You know. Those deer and elk. Whatever he's talking about. Are eating a little different. Yeah. And sometimes it's interesting.

It could be good. You know. Depending. How things shape up. I think it's wet enough. May. We want it to be wet. Here we go. We're doing it. April was kind of wet. In a lot of places. This is good. It'll be interesting. I think. I forecast. It's going to be average. If not a little greater than average. Some states. Be great. You know. That's what I would add. Yep. Is that the positive in me? Yeah. Is that. Is that too positive of an outlook? You've got to be optimistic. I saw some of those. Like. That email we saw the other day. With some fawn survival stuff. And fawn weights. And things. And. The deserty stuff. Could be rough. Oh. I think it could be rough. Some of that stuff. There's always. I mean. If a buck makes it to maturity. In there. I don't know why. They figure out where the food is. And they have potential to be big. So. Yeah. There. There's potential for a big deer.

But just overall. In general. I think some of the. The heavily. You know. Deserty stuff. Might be kind of tough. But I think a lot of our units. Were deer. The winter. At. Say five to seven thousand feet. They actually had. Probably one of the best winters. They've had in a long time. As far as. Haven't had to fight. Snow. Or even a lot of cold. So they haven't had. Tough winters. To survive through. And walking through knee deep snow. And all that stuff. So actually. They obviously don't. They continually lose fat. All winter. But it's a slower rate. And it actually kind of started. Greening up. A little sooner. So. I don't know. I think some of those. Higher elevation type. Wintering deer might. Actually be okay. Didn't green up quite as much. As 2023. As early as 23. Huh Josh? No. No. Never. Nothing ever. We were talking about that. At lunch. We were seeing lots of green.

In the medians Josh. Yeah. But it's not as green. As it was in February. Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago. Adam and I were like. There's a lot of green. In the median. Josh would be excited. Right now. No. I have noticed. He'll drive. And just. This morning. I was noticing. I'm like. It's. Just this week. It's significantly. It's turned on emerald. This week. It's turned on emerald. Emerald green out there. All right everybody. Good luck in the draws. We want to know what you get. Let us know if we can help you. I have a member draw experience. Here at Epic Outdoors. We'll send you a list of members. Who've hunted it in the past. If you want to go guided. We've got guides for anywhere and everywhere. Guarantee tags. Or draw tags. Hit us up. 435-263-0777. If you need any hunts with guaranteed tags. We also have the hunts listed. Devin does a great job of keeping those updated on our website.

On the Epic Hunt. Whatever it is. Profiles or whatever. You can go check them out. There's updated stuff. Discounted stuff. All kinds of hunts out there. And so. Anyway. We work with the best of the best. Give us a holler. Good luck in the draws. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff. You need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags. You need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year. You get access to our consultants. Our online tools. And to Epic approved outfitters. And members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants. And access to the Epic Outdoors Master. Magazines. Applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying. If you're applying for the best areas. No more applying for a unit. Where there has been a die off.

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