EP 354: Pre-Season Scouting Strategies and Gear Breakdown

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast brought to you by Fierce Firearms. Epic Outdoors choice for custom hunting rifles.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, the entire Epic Outdoors crew. I mean, pretty much the entire. Are we missing anyone? No, we're all here, baby. Geez. We got Logan, one of the most important. Not of the male tender. That's right. Crucial. Critical. Critical piece. All right. Anyway, how you doing, everybody? We're doing all right here in the Epic Outdoors office. Wyatt, you're finally gracing the table here. Wyatt ushered us into the end of app season. We actually went and picked out yesterday for lunch when we got all the states officially done for the year. If we don't go to the American Diner ever again, I'm just fine with that. You weren't a fan? It never ends right. For some of us. That's Josh. I claimed victory. I claimed victory. What do you mean? You did. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I thought there was a smooth sailing. Really? Yeah. There was some good choices.

I thought you were down at halftime. I was down at halftime for a minute, but there's always comebacks. Yeah. Won the series. That was good. Anyway. Seven games. A little bit of Pepto. Anybody that goes there, you know, if you need a good clean out, try the Spanish on. But other than that.

When are we starting this podcast? We're a minute in. It's going.

Devin, how are you doing? Good. Heard your evening was interesting? Always. Always. Are you doing all right? Yeah. Good. Me, personally, yes. How's your dog? He's not doing so hot. Oh, man. A little late to work today. Well, I mean, you're out working out trying to get your heart rate up, and sure enough, you put it right through the roof. Yeah, I got my heart rate up. You could say that. Blood pressure. Anyway, people need to keep their dogs on leashes, right? It would be nice. And your dog is alive, right? He's alive. Okay. There could be assumptions made. And the other dog's owner and dog are also alive. They're alive. So that was nothing but wins last night. Yeah. A lot of, yeah. Nothing but wins. No, not wins. Just an unfortunate event. Kind of really pissed me off.

I didn't mean to bring it up. Let's give Devin it. 60 seconds alone. I'm a hot mic. It's fine. I just, yeah. I mean, when your dog bites somebody's dog, and you're on a bike and not on a leash, and then you act like it's no big deal. It's kind of a, I'm going to say something. And you're, like what? Blood stains down your arm. Oh, yeah. I'm covered in blood. Running home like Forrest Gump carrying Bubba. That's what it felt like. Neighbors are like, are you okay? You know? I am not okay. No, you see that guy? Yeah. Me and that guy are not friends. Yeah, we're not friends, but. Oh, well. It'll be good. It'll be all right. You know, Moose is going to end up, he's going to be better for it. It'll be a cool scar. I can tell you that. Any of you guys have cool scars? I got one. Where did you get it from? Didn't you? When I was about a day old. Really? First of my life, I got a scar.

I still have it. You get branded? Really? No, I got one under here. They cut me open, clear around. Oh, did they? What's the scoop? I was in a coma for like a week or so. Jeez. What did you have? As a newborn? I had a traumatic event when I was born. Well, we all did. I will say. We realized. I'll say my mother did not hook up all the plumbing. Oh. My throat was actually separated, and they had to go in and surgically stretch it and sew it back together. Wow. Down to your stomach? Down to your stomach? No, it was like right at the top of my chest, my esophagus. Dang. An esophagea fistula. That's what it's called. That sounds official. Fun fact about myself. How about now? Are you good? I'm good. Well, I don't know. If it causes mental issues, I'm probably not quite okay. I am not okay. No, but they say that one out of every thousand babies that go through that surgery come out

with some kind of problem, and I came out with zero problems. One out of every thousand don't come out. Or yeah. One out of every thousand don't come out with any problems, and I was the one. Wow. So. Well. How cool is that? That's awesome. Depending on the problem. I do have other problems. I was going to say. I can't list, but. Define problems. What problems do you think you have? No, it's like eating problems. Swallowing. Swallowing. Like some kind of problem. Choking. Okay. You do have that. Kind of screwing stuff up. Like you could. No, I'm good all out. You could eat Nerds and a Mountain Dew and be just fine. Just fine. See? Right there. Diet Mountain Dew, Devin. That's disgusting. That is. It is. Diet Mountain Dew. It's not great. I mean, I can drink a lot of diet stuff, but that's disgusting. That's not great. All right. So here we are. It's June. It's now.

We're now on four-day work weeks. How's that feel? It's going to feel really good. This is where you play the hallelujah. Glorious. Insert. Insert. Whatever for a minute right now. Four-day work weeks. Heading up scouting season. It's going to be awesome. Everybody's headed out, right? Logan, are you splint-free yet? No. June 11th probably, maybe. Oh, geez. You going to go fishing? No. I'm going to go hang trail cameras. That's my life now. Is it? Yeah. Why is that? Because my dad can draw a lot of tags, and I can't draw any, and that makes me a free laborer. Yeah. Human trail cameras. Live trail cameras. Whatever. That's what we do as sons. Thanks. Well, good. Logan, do it well. I will. I think that's great. So, here we are. Today, I guess, what? Tonight. Idaho deadline. Everybody got their applications in for Idaho. Wyatt, did you get yours in? I applied earlier in the year for sheep.

Oh. So, does that mean you didn't apply for anything today? That means everyone shut me down for unlimited antelope hunts is what it means. I have not. No one shut you down. That deadline is dying. We just left. When you apply for rifle hunts, and you know the hoops, you got to jump through to get that somehow fixed with IDOW. Yeah. IDOW. IDOW's a Dwarf with a wildlife.

Anyway. It's not worth it. So, Wyatt's flying solo. Wyatt, you and I are in. I'll do it. Let's do it. I'll throw in right now. Archibald? What are we talking about? He's already in for rifle. He's not going to go through the steps to amend that. You applied rifle antelope? I did. I told you that today, earlier. No, Cash told me that. No, I looked you in the eyes and I applied. Both these guys. I even told you the unit. That is a violation of friendship right there. You were there. I told you the unit. You must have told him the unit. No, you were looking right at me. I know the unit. I would be offended, too, Wyatt. I kind of am. You're on your own, Wyatt.

Nobody does anything without Wyatt's approval. You guys have known each other for how long? Ten years? He's messing with us. That's down the drain. I looked him right in the eye and I told him.

All right. So, anyway. That's the last state. Yeah. It's good. We've got a bunch of results coming out, Wyatt. It's great. Yeah. What's next? Maybe California results? Yeah, maybe California. Idaho turned their last draw around pretty quick. So, who's to see what they can do with this? Oregon's out by the 15. Oregon. Wyoming. 19th-ish. Wyoming. 19th. For deer. All the exciting states. What else? Washington. Yeah, sometime. Iowa. What else? What else? We're missing. Yeah. That's about covered the main ones. Arizona. Arizona. Arizona. Yeah. They turned theirs around in two weeks on the elk and antelope. It was fast. I'm ready for it. Yeah. I was ready yesterday. We'll see when they change to update credit cards or shut that period off and we'll know they're coming. Oh, yeah. I just got my email. Yeah. They're not that fast. Dear Adam.

All right. So, what do we got today? What are we doing today? John, Adam, what are we doing? I think we got some questions, right? We do have a few of those left over. We saved these and we apologize. This last two, three weeks has been, yeah, there's been a lot coming. A lot of moving parts, a lot of checking, a lot of applying. And, yeah, we're finally here. We're going to get more consistent doing that throughout the summer. A little fun, a little frolicking, a little less serious monotone-ish. So, let's have it today. Let's bring it. Let's have it. All right. This is Thursday, which might as well be Friday. More open doors, open windows in the office. Yeah. I wore shorts last week. I didn't today. It was kind of cold and stormy this morning. But, hey. It's been a little stormy. All right. Crazy weather. Been incredible, actually. Pollock, you guys are going to wash away up there.

John, you were up there fishing. Yeah. Fishing. It was a downpour. How'd that go? Crazy, right? Yeah. Crazy downpour. Like, so much so, like, all the banks were going into the river and the river was brown. Peterson Household. Yeah. Taking refuge under trees. Caught a couple toads. Lightning storm. Just a couple. Lightning up there, popping big fish. Yeah. Lightning. 19-incher. We stood next to the river and put the rods in the air, you know. Come on, John. Did you? Yeah. I mean, you better be living right if you're going to do that. Yeah. Go out that way. That could happen. Yeah. I was like, there's a tree kind of close, you know. I was holding a surveyor rod for my dad once and I had sparks. You're kidding. I dropped it and started running. He was like, what's going on? I heard of that guy's happening to the guys with their tips of their barrels. And they walked down there.

He's a surveyor. Walked down there. And the guys with, oh, bull crap. Popped it up. You could visually see sparks coming off the top of the road. It's only like eight feet tall. He's like, yep, we're done today. Yeah. Wow. I mean, it was just coming in down on. That's wild. It doesn't matter where it was. It was spooky. That's wild. But all right. It is going to be good, I think. There's some parts that are getting some really timely moisture heavy. That's, I mean, yeah, it could be. What do you think, Wyatt? Purling comes to mind. Purling. That's the conversation we had yesterday at lunch. As a Boone and Crockett scorer, here's a question for Wyatt. Wyatt, could you describe the antler phenomenon known as purling?

It would be the. Using with calcium. Yeah. It doesn't score. Yeah, they say really, really healthy deer. It kind of shows the health of the deer on the lower part of their antlers. Just the knobbiness. Really? Do they truly attribute that to health? That's what I read once. Did you? Like it hurts your hands when you hold them. Yeah. Oh, I love those. On a good, healthy year, it seems like it's more prevalent. Just because it's oozing with growth. So pure slick shank means they're not doing as good. Yeah, probably not healthy. Why'd you look at me? The slick shank king. You and I went through a little streak, boss. We're brothers in that department. I killed a buck last year. I had some purling. Yeah, you did. It hurt your hand. It hurts to grab that thing. That hurt. No slick shank. All right. Okay. Well, anything else that comes to mind, Wyatt? Just we tease Wyatt. Dripping.

Dripping and purling. Candle wax beams. It all could be possible.

Wyatt loves to say so vague on his opinion, but we're all optimistic over the last 75 days of water, maybe actually more like 90 now, huh? Since the first of March.

Hey, Wyatt's working on projects that have nothing to do with deer, which is disappointing to me. Really, Wyatt? Oh, the antelope thing you mean? No, just anything. Probably elk. You never know. 100% focus should be on deer. I think he's more focused than he indicates. I got to get some tags in my pocket first. Yeah. You've got some. You got more than me, Wyatt. We'll find out, huh?

Jeez. The word cryptic doesn't even start to describe why. I was going to say, are we going to ever know? I don't think so. I don't think so. What are the top 10 synonyms for the word cryptic? Because all of those together might start to describe why. We don't have to be cryptic. I don't have a mule to tag in my pocket. You do, too. I do. Idaho General. Come on. Idaho General. I know it. I forgot. What I think is funny is every time we're like, well, Wyatt doesn't have anything going on. He doesn't have anything. He doesn't say a word, which means he has things going on. We just don't know what they are. Things. Friends. Okay. All right. Here we go. Let's go through the first question. The question wants to know, everybody's optic setup. And then if you have thoughts individually on twin spotters versus the BTX. Maybe they're weighing that option out for themselves.

But what's your, what's your, let's just go through. Optical repertoire. Bino and spotter setup. And then thoughts on twin spotters versus BTX. Got my thoughts. I'll go last. That's what the question reader guy gets to do. Question reader guy. Start left or right. Which left? Right. Me? Well, you're left. My optics? Yeah. I run a pair of 14s. I run. I love that word. Remember, we talk about that run. It triggers Josh. Why do you think I said it? I run a 3,500 backpack. I personally own. I use in the field. I use in the field. 14s, 15s. I like range finding binoculars. So we all range. 10 by 32s. 95 spotter. The big one. But talk about. I have a smaller window mount spotter. But I really need a small backpack. That's my next one. We can help you with that, Devin. I understand. Yes, I do. We know people that sell these. I got to eat. I've had some undue hardship lately.

Devin, we'd make you a deal.

Even a payment program. We just started for in-house employees only and layaway program. I don't do this. It's like Kmart. All right, Cash, you're up. No, no, no, no. No, no. Yeah, regarding the 14s and 50s, you can't just spew every optic you've ever owned in your life. Like, what do you take now, the 14 purest of the 15s? I know the 15s, we've all used them so much, even Wyatt, that we thought, I can never part with these things. But you like the 14s. I like the 14s. I think you'd be good. You could go and do a 12 EL range, and then you have best of both. You could do tripod or just handhold, and then you have one item instead of two. That would be a good option as well. Or the three, actually. I think we should talk about the range-finding subject that we talked about the other day. About the EL range, John, you did extensive research on this.

The EL range, or let's just say a Swarro rangefinder, spits out a certain figure, 793 yards. And a different rangefinder would come up with 785 yards. Or whatever, right? Yeah. And this came about because we had a guy who bought a rangefinder. It was him and his wife, and they were both archery. And, yeah, they never really paid attention to which rangefinder they were using. One would spot for the other one. Yeah. That's 43 yards. And then. Handheld or binocular? Just handheld. Whereas the ones that they said, he sent it back, said it had a problem because it was off. I thought it was a range-finding bino. Yeah, you're right. You're right. In the Swarro. You're right. It was. And so you were working. You were in the office. We were all scouting. Yeah, it just happened to be I was the only one. And so I was like, okay, I've got to figure this out. So he sent it back. So it's off.

You sent him another pair? Yeah, sent him another pair. Did a whole bunch of research. Called all the manufacturers. Talked to everybody. And did extensive, extensive testing here in the parking lot. We've got a very large parking lot. So I got out the tape measure and taped off, you know, 100 yards. He's lucky he got you, John. Yeah. Yeah. We have a paint sprayer. You could have painted some lines. I should have. Yeah. So it was exact, right? But you weren't here, Devin. When it comes to painting, that's got to be your job. It would not have been straight enough.

Anyway, sorry. So everybody, Devin, what did you do in your former years? No, John, just keep going. It's fine. Devin painted lines for a living. No, not lines. Walls? Everything. Whatever. Whatever for parking lots. Whatever. Whatever for the Nebo School District, right? Graffiti. You were the painter. They're still paint. He was so good at graffiti, they had to hire him.

I scraped graffiti. Little buggers. It was the worst job ever. Anyways, go ahead. So we did test. We meaning myself. So lots of testing. I got out every rangefinder we had, every rangefinding bino we had, and tested it every distance. It turns out they're all different. So depending on... Slightly. Slightly. Yeah. Not drastically, but slightly different. And so what the guy was saying wasn't right was his wife's rangefinder was saying, and it was very close. Three to four yards, but I think the biggest difference is he's shooting a 70-pound bow. His wife's shooting a 45. And at four yards, that can be pretty big difference. At a 40 to 45. Yes. On those, because of the poundage bow, mostly. Especially if you're using a dial sight, and it just needs to be perfect. And her rangefinder was reading different than his rangefinder. Absolutely. Slightly. So at the end of the day.

So at the end of the day, it turns out a lot of it has to do with the rounding as well. You know, they'll shoot in some of them in meters or whatnot, and then it converts to yards. And so there's actually, and I can't remember what the exact yardage is, but it's impossible to get like 47 yards or something. Because of the rounding, you either will get 46 or 48. And that's not the exact yardage, but there's a figure you can't get. Because just because of the roundage. Because it was built in meters. Yes. And it uses a mathematical equation to come to yards. And so with the rounding, it'll always miss that, whatever it is. It's like 34 or 47. So now if you fast forward to 100 yards, 200 yards, now you've got a difference. 3, 4, 7, 8. So it turns out that the most important thing is to use the exact same rangefinder with whatever weapon you have all the time.

Sight your bow in with the rangefinder you use. Yes. And use that. You're with your buddy. Don't use his rangefinder. Because it's different than what you sighted your bow in with. And bow is probably the most drastic difference. Yes. And especially you're talking not two guys shooting two 70-pound bows side by side. You're talking about husband-wife, arcing of the arrow, 45-pounder, 70-pounder. Huge difference. And four or five yards or whatever at the range he's talking about was pretty significant. Monumental. And I think, too, as we were talking to Colby, and he made that, he kind of had a guy that had that shooting range. Let's just fast forward the story. But basically had a shooting range, knew exactly what they were, brought in a new rangefinder from Swarro or whatever, and he hit it. And he goes, it's off. It doesn't match. It was off 70 yards. 70 yards. 700 yards.

And he's like, well, go look in your Leica. Is there a little dot? Yes. That means it's in meters. So he had set it up in meters. He didn't even know. He keeps using the same rangefinder. What's the difference? It matched his gun. And he was fine. Which is fine for him. Yeah. Until his buddy came over and shot the same steel and dialed to what he said to 700. They lay down a $100 bill, and they're going to have a shoot-off. He won every time. Hit about a foot low again. Sorry. You're hitting the dirt. I don't know. What's wrong with your janky shuttle? You must not be weighing your powder right. The guy probably went through some rifle scouts. And some rounds. Yeah. And frustration. He burned through some H-1000 arch. I think it was you, Pollock, that was talking the other day about where the rangefinder actually hits in the binoculars, too. Yeah.

I'd seen the thing where a guy was saying that there's kind of a sweet spot at times on your rangefinder. You know, there's obviously usually a square or a circle of some kind. And that laser beam could be stronger at one point or another of those. And so it was just saying, you know, try and hit that. I don't know how much that plays into it. Make a huge difference on antelope. Yeah. Like if you're looking at a flat and you've got just a slight variation in your optic, that could be 50 yards further. Yeah. So you want to kind of just test your rangefinder a little bit. Try and hit, you know, get a good reflective surface on something I'd say that you know is kind of a hundred yard distance, something to that effect, maybe whatever, and test out your rangefinder or like on a pole. A lot of guys I've seen use like a telephone pole or something if you're in a scan mode and

scan where it's far, far, far. And then all of a sudden you come into a pole or something and you know that's where it starts to pick up and you can kind of see on your rangefinder where the best, most reliable part of your laser would be. You know, I don't know when you're in a hunting situation if you're going to remember that or whatever, but it could play a difference, especially at longer yardages or closer yardages with archery. Yeah. Pretty interesting. That all came from you, Devin. Thank you for that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. From your repertoire of optics. I was wondering about that when you say about if your rangefinder's hitting the center, because I had a handheld, and I mean, we're talking elk at like 450, and I'm telling you I could not hit it. Yeah. You had to miss it. I would hit 900, 300, like, and it's flat as a pancake. That's what I was doing.

I used a tree line in Onyx and we killed the pole. I could not get it. And then you drew a line on the Onyx tools. Exactly. And said, well, from here to the tree line, just aim here. Yeah. Send it. But yeah, that was, I don't know. I wonder if that's what I. Maybe. That could have been. Because I'm. You had to miss the elk to hit the elk. That's impossible. Yes. Because no matter what I did, I couldn't get anywhere near it. And I'm looking at it, I'm like, I know it's not 300. I know it's not 7, 9. You know, it's all over the place. But I wonder that. Yep. If that could have been the issue there. All right. What about other setups? We've got to go around the room. Yeah. Whoever. I've got. I'm running the NL Pure 12s. 99 COA and a 55 COA. I like it. So. Okay. Pretty simple. Eerily simple. Handheld range finder. I'm running.

I can't sell anything. I can't sell anything. So, I mean, I can tell you what I'm running. You guys. What do you mean you can't sell? 95 and 85. Harpia. Swarovs. I've got Harpia. 65. ATC. STC. I mean, you guys, you talk about the shiny lure. I've hit the thing of these guys. I think we should also add all my spotting scopes are angled. What about you, Cash? I have. My 99 is angled and my little one is straight. Hey, there you go. 50-50. That's messed up. You're halfway to the bright side. Keep looking through the straight one and you'll become converted. Yeah. Because it's next level. I don't know. The difference is monumental. I don't know. I'm a straight guy. All right. We've got the new quick release. So, my contention is you're looking through your binos. You're going to switch them out. And you put an angled on there. You've got to move your body position. It's all you need.

It's not as fast. All right. Let's just talk about time versus target acquisition. Let alone target acquisition. You donate me. You're straight. Just buy right to begin with. For five days of scouting. Just buy right to begin with. Anyway. All right. So, did you finish your. Is there anything you would do different or anything you're aspiring to get? I would. I feel like you've got a great setup. I would get a pair of range finding binos to add in there. That's about the only thing that I'm like, I could use that. Like rifle hunts, yes. Yeah. I would. I want a pair of those. Handhelds, I do like for archery still. Yeah. Because it's not two eyes. You can go one eye. Archery, I feel like a handheld is better for me. Okay. Smaller, lighter. Yeah. But a range finding vinyl would be what I would add. Yeah. Yeah. I like the Swarrow stuff has treated me so good over the years.

And we know that, right? So, I mean, the 12s, I love the 12s. 14s. Spotters. I like the interchangeability. But, I mean, I have one of everything. You know the Shinalure. I mean, it's deep in my guts right now. Guilty of that. Somehow I'm still alive, though.

You can live with the Super Duper in your belly. With what? Cheese hook in your belly? Yeah. Super Duper's been there for about 20 years. Cheese hook in your chin. And usually when Adam hits the shiny lure, he hits the front and back hook. Because he'll get two. Oh, yeah. No question. He gets a pair. That's a good point, Paul. He'll get both hooks. He's got a – Didn't that come in handy last year? Didn't that come in handy? Well, true. About two weeks before I had to go sheep hunting? Smart. Right. But he was talking about you.

Ty wants all the gear Dad has. Well, that's part of it. My kids want all the gear Dad has. So that's another reason I don't sell. Well, it's also – it is true. I don't either. I have my ELs. I have my old 10-power SLC 10s and my 10-power EL. Those probably ought to go. No, they're just kicking around. I know. I get it. What are you going to get for them? Food. I've got food storage. I don't need it. Gas. Okay. How much gas are you going to get for a pair of 10 SLCs? I don't know. And is it worth getting rid of them? Devin? Natural gas or – Devin. Is that a premium? Do you run 90, 91? The answer is no. Are you going to Maverick or Love's? Hephanal free? The answer is no. Yeah. They're worth keeping. So that's the thing. The Harpia is super clear. It's angled. That's my biggest contention. I thought I could swap over. Not swapping over. But if somebody wanted to take it off your hands –

Call me. Okay. Call me. Only – The thing is, they're the most clear of, you know, that and Akoa and Swarro. The top three. But anyway, just one of those things. I don't know. Between that and then Swarro, I mean, I like a 65. I like a 85. Sometimes it's not big, but it's big. You know what I mean? You have a lot. The 95 lets you go to 70 power. You've got to have that sometimes. And then the 115, why the guy needs one, right? You guys, you can't tease me about hitting every lure. I've hit every lure, Swarro throws. He has 65, 85, 95, 115, 99, 55, BTX. Of the Koa. Of the Koa. At a 95 size. A 95 and a 50. A 99, a 55. Did you go through the NLs? Yeah. 8s, 10s, 12s, and 14s. Okay, I do have them. And the 8s are no joke. I'm just saying. I mean, I've hit every lure. I knew in the box I have 10 by 52s. Okay. Have you ever heard of them? Most people have them.

I have, but I questioned when they made them. Like, are these really going to catch on? Remember how the 10 by 50s were next level? It felt like you could look at 3D through there. It did. It felt 3D. That came to mind. I said it out loud. That was in 1995, Jason. Well, it was no joke. And it stuck with me. There's something about that big objective. And a smaller power. Call it 10 power. 10 by 52, they're going to be no joke. Have I even opened the box? Jenna says, do you know what's in this box? I'm like, yeah, I do. Did you have another? It is still originally closed. Don't you have some eel ranges too? Somewhere? I mean, 10 by. Those are all eels somewhere. I don't know where they are. I cannot figure it out. The 10 by 32s? No. I know where. Those ones? Those ones are in somebody else's hands. We could do a service to you and not have Jenna edit this podcast.

These are half of them are hers. I want to ask you. It's the truth. Ask the judge. Half of them are hers. Half of them are hers. And she likes them. She doesn't want to get rid of her ass either. No. No, she doesn't. And so anyway, and that's the same thing with rifle scope. Same thing. I mean, I hit those lures like crazy. But nevertheless, in my backpack, 12 is pretty common. Going to have a 14 or 15 everyone should have. A BTX is always hooked to the 115. I pack it. I don't care. I don't pack it everywhere. I don't pack it often. But when I have it, you need it. And so I have it. And so that's great. And then a straight spotter. And I think the Koa and Swaro is my choice. You know? No joke on these Koas and Swaro. They are no joke. I do feel like the twin scopes, I feel like we need them. I've come halfway there. I've got one. I need to get them calibrated.

It's not kind of something I need Josh to help with. You've got to get it right. You've got to get it right. You've got to get it right. Yeah. And the only thing I don't like about it as much is you can't, once you get them to that point, you can't lend them to buddies in your hunting party. I'll be out sheep hunting a lot. I don't need my BTX. Just like you said, everywhere you go, you don't need that. And sometimes I'll lend it out to one of my guys or somebody, take my BTX over here. You can't do that if a guy's eyes are spaced fairly dramatically different than yours. Even a little. Even a little. I don't think any of us could use. None of us. None of us. We don't match. We've tried it. We've tried setting them narrow and I can't see them. We try to set them for me or whoever else a little bit wider. Jason and others can't see them. So that's the one downside.

I'm ready to do it, though. The ones that we have looked through have been awesome. They are awesome. They are awesome. You just have to. You have to set up. What I hate about the BTX is they are angled. Yeah. I hate it. I don't like it either. I mean, have you ever looked through angled binoculars? They're binoculars, right? They are. They're kind of like they're a binocular. I don't know anybody else that makes an angled binocular. I just struggle with that. Just, I mean, people whose brains are screwed up, you know. What do you mean? Well, John, easy. I'm just saying. Like, the angled, it just doesn't make sense. You're on the fight today. We're also the oldest guys in the room. I know. And it's three against five. Well, no. These guys, do you guys all run angles? Yeah. What do you mean? They all do. All of them do. It's 100% angle. Yes, 100%. It's us three. They don't run straight.

I'm bull. It's old duffers. They didn't make them when we were kids, really. Think about it. It all depends on what kind of spinal issue you want. Do you run angles or straight? Oh, yeah, angles. True. Are you crapping me? Exclusively. When we started using them, angles were weird if you even made them. And so we all started on straight and then tried to change that. You can't. You can't. It takes some practice. Why would you practice doing that? You'd have to be like me. I was forced into it. Why? When I bought my new scope, that was it. Do you want a Harpia or a BTX? I got one. Maybe. Let's make a deal. I'll make you a deal. Just give me a week or two. I'm just a little bit. He's got to get back on his feet. He's got dog surgery to pay for. He had a baby. He had a job that tells me about does good. I don't know. But I wanted to ask you.

I think you've told me before, but do you still have your TILAVIT 77? Mm-mm. What? I don't have the TILAVIT 77. What do you do with that? I don't know. That would be probably worth double, triple. It's a relic. I've got the old Bosch alone sitting there. That's cool. That was part of the sun thing that you were talking about. Yeah. I was just wondering. My slave labor days. Did you sell the TILAVIT? I don't remember. I'm just trying to think. Where is that? It's probably with your real ranges. I love the TILAVIT 77. I still have mine. I'll never sell it. It's just the first nice piece of optic I ever had. It was. And it was me, too. I was so proud of it. I somehow figured out how to purchase it. I wonder if we put them side by side, Devin, if it's really as good as we remember, if it was just good for the time. I look to mine.

It's sometimes on a window mount, like a permanent just under the seat. It's not the same. Scopes have came a long way since the TILAVIT. The eyepiece is much smaller, so you're used to those big eyepieces. You look at that TILAVIT 77, you're like, man, it's tight. But when we were young, I could see everything. Oh, man. It was unbelievable. Cheaters, pearling, dripping calcium.

It is amazing on the bigger eye objectives. We look through those new Zeiss 12x50s, and like you said, Devin, big screen. It looks like you're looking at a big screen. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same thing with rifle scopes. It's just the eye relief. We were setting up these rifles the other day. You notice the eye relief on that Z5i? Yeah. It's, man, it just, the whole window's right there. I mean, sometimes there's some sentimental, I want to shoot something with my grandpa's rifle. Do you? Do you? Be careful what you want. No, you don't. No, you don't. Grandpa's rifle should stay on the wall. It is ancient technology. Yeah. It should be revered and reverenced and all the things, but don't use it. Yeah. You're going to miss. You're going to miss. All right. Are we done? Let's move along with John. No, I mean done with me. I'm up. Oh, yeah. What is different?

Logan, did you have something different? What is something different? Let's talk about difference. I'm probably the black sheep. I use the Zeiss HDX 10x42s. Oh, I like it. I use the HD 15, 56s, and then Agavia 85. Angled. Angled.

I love it.

All right. Good work. Yeah. John, you're about to. I would say I'm about the same. I've got the 12s, the Suero NL Pure 12s, 14s. And last year, my son Carter couldn't, I couldn't get him out of his hands. The 14s. Oh, yeah. He just. Well. Man. Yeah. Anyway, and then I did switch this year to the Promenar, the Kawa 55 and 99s. Yep. And I'm telling you, if you are in that 45 to 50 and your eyes are just changing, getting worse is what changing means, it makes a huge difference. The fine focus, it's what I liked about your televids back in the day, that fine focus. Fine focus. It is to die for. Yeah. So. The 99 is a little fatter. I went to, I put it in my pack. Mm-hmm. You can tell. And I was like. Yep. I had to jank around with it. It's just getting a little big. Yeah. With a case on it, so you're adding about that much on it. Yeah. Just.

But remember when we weighed it, it was actually an ounce lighter. Yeah. Than the 95. Yeah. Which is interesting. Yeah. Like the, back to the fine focus, like you mentioned on the till of it, that's, I think, maybe part of the key. I don't know if it's all of it, but it's, feels like maybe that's the sharpness. Yeah. I just. I went to. Oh, that's out of focus all the way this way. Oh, this is out of focus. Okay. Just put it in the middle and it's not quite. But I've never broke a Swarrow focus ring. You know what I mean? It's. Yeah. It's. You can't break it. It's protected. Yeah. Yeah. The other stuff, not so protected. It's out in the open. External right there. Yes. Kind of. Just a little out in the open. Yeah. We'll see if it can live to the rigors of back of a, you know, side by side truck, hauling, pack, everything. Strapped to a four-wheeler rack with no padding. We'll see.

Josh and Wyatt, what, what, what do we. . . I like Josh. Josh. Josh, he's hit every. . . Not even shiny lures. What? Just lures. No. A pair of hooks. He loves the gear. Yeah. I mean, my favorite thing, especially during hunting season, is a good pair of thermal binos.

I mean. Good guy. Who does it? I dare you to compete with me? Any of you? I love it. Oh. No. No. If there's a state that allows it. I mean. You got a chest carry thermal, chest carry bino. One on each hip. Thermal scope. Thermal rifle scope. Thermal scope. Yeah. I know. Same way you guys have. I mean, I recently, I guess you could call it these days non-binary. I don't know. I went with a straight scope. Non-binary. I used to have just angled, but I did. And what have you thought of the switch, Josh? There's a reason to, right? I haven't used it much. The main thing is because the headroom in a Toyota, 2003 Toyota Corolla, is pretty limited off of a window mount. That's the reason I thought. Yeah. So, anyway, if you just, one of those little, I got a new Koa 55 spotting scope. And I love that thing that the glass is awesome and the fine focus is really nice, especially

on one of those little ones because with that smaller objective, they are, the light gathering and some of that stuff isn't as good. So, being able to get the right focus is sometimes tough. So, having that fine focus on it has been nice. But just mainly off of a window mount because that is such a small little scope. I'll throw it in the truck even if I don't need it or whatever. I've always got it. Whatever. It's just easier to have a little teeny squatter there with you and throw it on. It goes good on the window mount. Other than that, I would use angled. So, but I love BTX and I wouldn't ever, I went to a range finding binocular and can't go away from it. So, that's pretty important. Which range finding binocular are you using? The 10 by 32 eel ranges. I went with the, I ended up going with the 32. Just, yeah, they're just small and lightweight.

I don't spend a lot of time sitting glassing with them. They're with me every day on my chest harness. But I don't sit behind them in glass for a long period of time. But when I do, generally I'm just getting a range of some kind or something. So, you'd pull out a 14 or something glass with it. Yep. But then for your everyday carry, just truly not on a tripod would be the 10 by 32. Yeah. Yeah. They're still a 10 power magnification. So, they're good. But they're really small and lightweight in your hand. And get in the range if you want to hold them one-handed and stuff. They're a little easier to do than a good 42. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Wyatt. Been waiting to hear this all day. Mine's pretty much the same as everybody else's. I mean, nothing. I got an angled scope. The Suaro 95. Just so disappointing. As much as you window mount, how is this angled? How does it work out?

How do you guys – I know that most scopes you can twist, right? Yeah. You can loosen that set screw and kind of turn them. A lot of the times the scope isn't necessarily on the window mount. It's just the binos. And then let's say you wanted to put a scope on. Step out and see what you're trying to do. That's what you're doing. I do have the new STC, though, that I got for basically that purpose to try to – Do you like it? I haven't used it a ton. I mean – The little one? Yeah, the little scope. 17 to 40 power or whatever. Yep. So that and then the – I like a range-finding pair of binoculars. I tried to go to the NL-12s. This is my sole carry binoculars. And I just felt like I needed a range-finder. So which ones are you running on that? The 10x42s. Would you ever consider the 12-by? I have considered the 12-bys.

I just worry about, say, like archery hunting scenarios and maybe being a little too much. Yeah. Just to handle it when you're in super close like that. You know, they make an 8-eel range. Yeah? Don't fall for it. I like the one piece of green I'm going to need right there. Wyatt's one of those bass under a log. It would take something. It – oh. He's one of those fish, those salmon that get flossed right into the side of the cheek. Snag! That's Wyatt. Yeah. He gets caught by accident. You're going to catch him by the tail when he did that. Snag! He is very calculated. Very calculated. Yeah. And as such, anything that he does makes me think I should be doing it. That's why we try to get – Like an unlimited archery antelope tag. That's why I did exactly what he said. And did not apply for unlimited archery antelope. You didn't do that. The other part I did. What? I'm not saying.

I just did exactly what Grampo-Blox says. What, unit 54L? Grampo-Blox. Yeah. The one of those unique ones that nobody knows about? Yeah, that no one knows about. It's a totally secret unit, under the table. You just – you do what Wyatt said. Always. What would Wyatt do? W-W-W-D. Does that have to do with cheap fees and expensive fees, Carter? Well, I mean, okay, Wyatt. I don't know why you have to be mean about it. What? I want to hear this. Wyoming. Wyoming. These two didn't want to fight in the same draw pool, right? Is that what it was about? Well, I was being respectful. You asked Wyatt what he was doing, and you said you'd do the other ones. That was basically – A piece of it. Slight piece. Maybe even an afterthought. It wasn't even a factor. Maybe even an afterthought. I just think if I'm going to go to – you know what my schedule's like. Not so great. Kind of busy.

And I'm just thinking if I'm going to get a tag in Wyoming, I ought to have something that I can afford to throw on the ground. You know what I mean? So you're going to go regular versus special. I did regular because I'm going to be in the random, and I couldn't pull point boost and have a clear conscience about it knowing what my schedule's like. So I couldn't point boost with a friend and cause them to have not maximized their tag. And you not even show up. Yeah. What if I don't? What if I don't? Yeah, exactly. And so then I'm like, okay, I'll go – so, yeah, Wyoming owes me some money. I've amended, pulled, withdrawn 14 times. How many deer tech fees? And I reapplied. How many deer tech fees are you on? I would say five. Deer tech fees? No way. Maybe. You went back and forth? Can't talk about it. A lot of changes. Me and friends. Friends, kids, women, and children.

Could you imagine checking his apps? Oh, you'd be a nightmare. It was a nightmare for me. You'd be a nightmare. Because I'm going to have to figure out what they owe me. When you start getting charges. Yeah, because when you pull out, if you're within the app period, you can put it back in. Next day, it was in two days I had an app back in.

And I'm okay if they have it as long as I get it back. And so then I'm looking at it. So then I went with cheap fee. And the, you know, afterthought list is I'm not competing with Wyatt for a general tech. Yeah, and then Wyatt, did he – Wyatt, well, the odds say you should go special every time, all day long. And I didn't. I went cheap because – But you have – You weigh his ins. I'm going to draw and he's not. It's like $900 different or whatever. So it's just like – and you're like, I could – At some point, have you ever gotten tired of giving the state your money or buying gear? Have you ever gotten tired of it? I mean, I was at that point. All the time. I'm not saying that we should quit. I'm just saying I got tired of it for a minute. Yes. And I was like – So your amendment game is strong. Oh, man. If any of you have questions – If you're 15 bucks a whack, it's hard not to.

If any of you guys ever have questions about – And it warns you. Are we going to keep $15 a year? Yeah. Keep that portion. If you can amend your application, Carter knows the answer. Yeah. If you know any weird ways – There is a question about that, too. I'm going to just ask it right now. Well, I will say my – Just so people don't say Bronson never said what he uses for optics. I use pretty much what Jason did. We use Swarrow forever. I've always been a straight scope guy. He's a 95. I love the variability in that. I also have a BTX. I use it with a 95 instead of the 115. And – I think that's actually optimal. It is a little bit more – I pack it more than – Yes. Than what I would have 115. The 115, I just keep them married up in the truck. And I have that set up, too. But it's nice so I can lend it out.

So I did that mainly so I can lend it to someone and still have my 95 spotter with me. But if I'm buying one today, I'm buying a 95 with a BTS. Yes. I'm not buying a 115. I don't think it gives you enough. And it's an amazing spot scope. So you can switch in and out with the eyepieces. I use a 12 or 14 NO Pure. I do not use a range-finding bino. I've never – I want the best glass. And every – Pretty much – I know it's being ultra picky. But I think Jason and I are more like this. I want the very best glass that I can get for my bino. And any imperfection, how slight it may be, or whether it be laser, whether it be a display in there, on a range-finder bino, it has slight differences. It does. Even if you can't see it, you just figure it's there. So it just doesn't matter. Well, it is. It's why they – people say, why doesn't Saguaro or all that make their NLs with it?

Because it – the crispness and clarity gets – It would take away from that. It takes away. Technology slightly. It does. So I use that, and I use a standalone range-finder, Sig 8K. The Sig 8K and the 2400. I still use it. I still have that. That's for kids. But for me, I use my glasses 90 – 99% of the time. I don't need my range-finder. So I don't need a range-finder bino and my 12s and 14s all the time with me. You need it when you're going to kill something. And that's like 1% of all my time I put my glasses up to my eyes. Yeah. That's me. So anyway, but here's the question for Jason. No, no. So are we good on the general tag? Can we move on? I think we're good. Yeah. Do we need to expound upon that? What if I draw and you don't? It'd be awesome. I'd be happy for you. I would feel bad. Let's talk about – Wait, wait. Jeez. You guys, let's kiss and make up. Let's move on. We're made up.

Let's turn the page. Good. Wait a minute. There's one of us here that's not afraid to self-promote. So if you need new binos, give us a call. If you need new spotting scopes, give us a call. If you need a shiny lure drug in front of you, call John. If you want to try to talk Jason out of one of his old optics, give us a call. It'd be easy. I'd rather sell them new right here from the store. That way I don't have to feel bad. Okay. Regarding application mistakes or amendments, there's a question from Matthew. It says, what mistakes in that have you – I'm just going to kind of generalize it. Have you made and or heard of on an application and how is it fixed? Let's talk about some of those. There's been some weird ones. I'm going to remember one of these. This guy – and I'm going to leave out names to protect the innocent.

But there's a guy. How about – Leave out names to protect the guilty. Applied first choice for – with a bunch of sheep points in Montana for an unlimited. For an unlimited. Yeah. For an unlimited. Remember that guy? And then called and said, hey, I've got an unlimited hunt booked. I applied for that. We're like, you could have bought that during the month of – They fixed. April. If I remember right. And kept your points. And we actually called Montana on his behalf. And they somehow gave – yeah, we'll do that for you. Gave him his points back and his unlimited – The stroke of the keyboard. That was the second guy that year. Remember that? Yes. There was two of them. Two guys did that. And we've talked about it a lot, either in the mag or on the podcast. If you're ever going to do that, just buy it over the counter that month when it's open.

I say month, but before the deadline, before May 1st. And do it. Arizona is kind of a stringent, right? There's only like one option in Arizona. What is that? Scramble the credit card. How does that – yeah, because that might happen. And then when they call you to offer it to you because they're being really nice, don't accept it. Yeah, turn them down. Yeah, Arizona does not have any kind of – even fix it. Even if you notice three – you have point guard. And we've seen them go through the Wildlife Commission down there. Well, did you have a chance? Did you buy point guard? No. Did you have an opportunity to check yes? And did not. No. Then they turned to Arizona Game and Fish Representative. Was our programming faulty? No. No. All right. Next, please. And that's after an hour. They really hear the guy out. Basically, the guy – They spend some time.

He draws a cow tag with his 26 elk points. It's like, does I have point guard? We now have what we call point guard, sir. I would not apply Arizona without buying point guard. Ever. No. No matter what. Even if you think I'm only doing early rifle or something, you stub your big toe a week before and have to have surgery on it. Or maybe you break a finger. Maybe you break your trigger finger. I mean, you could get attacked by a feral dog. Or the hunt dog. Exactly. An hunt dog. Or you could be attacked by a federal dog's owner. That's right. What? Feral dog. Oh, feral dog. Feral dog. Okay. Federal. But, Wyatt, yeah, so maybe briefly, because this is kind of appropriate right now. We're within that two- or three-week period right now in Arizona. The deadline's over. You've applied. You might look at your choices and realize, I used 2004 hunt codes for deer, and I am in trouble.

And that has happened. Yeah, a lot. And it's worse than the cow thing, because I don't think they even have doe deer tags anywhere in Arizona. But they have cow elk. But you've got to do what? So, you basically tell people what you do, Wyatt. You basically update your credit card to a credit card that doesn't exist, or I guess one of those prepaid Walmart cards with $5 on it. Don't even- and don't even- the problem with the one guy you alluded, Jason, the one time, he just changed, like, his expiration date or something, but the card number, so that Arizona actually called him. Yeah. And they're not supposed to do that. No. They did. They're going out of their way to help you. It's very frustrating. Of course. They're just selling it. The guy said, no. They probably didn't even look at the hunt code and realize you're applying for a cow tag. Yeah.

And Atlas tags, like Atlas elk especially, like, they're no joke. They're kind of hard to draw. Go draw a guy a tag with. You need some points in many cases. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. What else? What are other- Well, it was interesting, Wyatt, we learned about California. Yeah, California. You can amend 10 days later. Yeah. I'm not sure if it's 10 days. They say there's, like, a hard deadline that she sends out, but it can be up to 10 days after the draw. After the draw deadline. After the draw deadline. You have to call them. So as long as you have a submitted application, you can still change it. You have to call them. You have to call. Yeah. But it's interesting. There's a weird, long process in Idaho. A lot of states have made it real easy. Utah, Nevada. Make it easy and charge people. You want to increase your budget. Charge them.

You'd pay $15 if you made a mistake on an application to go and reapply. Well, not even a mistake. Just change your mind. Another tag came up. I don't know anybody that changes your mind. Well, some of these application periods are so long. I mean, geez. They go for two months and you have a couple states' draw results come out. It makes no sense that if you can apply the last day of an app period, why can't you amend your app that you did a month earlier than that? It makes no sense. They just haven't hired the right programmers. Exactly. Not willing to spend the money. Yep. And most states you can amend it some way and make it pretty easy, but there are still a few that are a pain. I think the only two that you really can't, Montana and Arizona. Yeah, they're final.

Final. I think that's one thing. Like, we heard a couple instances this year with some sheep guys here in Utah that potentially applied. Oh, we heard a lot because, yeah, they had some terminology too close. Yeah. Escalante East and West. Kaparowicz East and West. And I've talked to no less than three or four people. Deer Little Rockies thinking they have Henrys. Yeah. Why? Didn't you talk to somebody that thought that was just a rut hunt on the Henrys, basically? Yeah. That they drew. You got to pay attention because those guys, yeah, there's the ability to turn those tags back. And there's, you know, you get some money back, but you won't get your extra point, especially on those sheep points.

Those guys potentially, if they wouldn't have drawn this year, they still would have been ahead of, there's a bunch of guys right below them that are now kicked into another pool of 15 other hunters. You get cut in line. And now you're 10 years out. Yes. And you were one year out, you know. It could be pretty serious. If you were to turn it back and not get your point. Yeah. Yeah. One year. So it's nice that some of these states have that ability to do that. But it could put you back 10 years. You can still retard your progress on that. Like, try messing up in Colorado on elk when you're in the .2012 rifle, early rifle, and then you fall one year back. No. You might be looking at 10 or 15 years. I don't know. At one point. Crazy. All right. Did we kind of vet that out good? Do we have any other examples? I couldn't think of any of those.

We're talking about the states that don't make it easy. Those ones go in and change it, but there's a few weird ways. What's the most common mistake? Like, is it applying for an antlerless tag versus an antlered tag? What's the most common thing, mistake-wise? Just a wrong hunt code. That's what I was thinking. It's got to be a hunt code. Just for a different unit. New Mexico, Arizona. Looking at last years. I mean, look at last years. New Mexico's can ratchet sometimes. I mean, just you've got to use that year's hunt code. That's the one thing on our website. A lot of times we use last year's hunt code because you've got to match up last year's hunt code with last year's dates. It equals last year's draws. To keep everything same, same, same. So don't look at that and take that this year and apply with it, you know. Yeah.

So, I mean, that should be intuitive, but sometimes guys just in haste get cranking. The other thing that could happen is, like, when Utah did the December archery, the button was right below the normal archery. Yeah. It's easy to see archery this year. Click. You don't look at the dates. Colorado, remember when moose was a little bit programmed a little different than the goat and the sheep, and guys were not getting the point? Clicking the box. Clicking the box. Flip-flopped. Remember, and they would flip-flop them, but they weren't programmed exactly the same on the look. Yep. So you get cranking and get going, and anyway, there's just a few little nuances that screw people up. All right. All right. Broadheads. We're all going to start shooting bows here right away if we aren't already. Let's go through that.

People want to know, favorite broadheads, what do we use, mechanical fixed, why? Probably results-based for me, kind of is. I mean, what's been working? I keep using. I know there's a lot of new flashy lures out there. There always is. But I use a Trophy Taker Shuttle Tee. It's a little 100-grainer, but it's strong for me and shoots identical to my failed points. I love that. That is nice. I love that. I don't have to redo anything. That's an oldie. Oldie. It is. It's kind of old. Called me old school. I just, I said this on a hot mic many other times to the chagrin of many of you guys, but I'm not a tweaker.

That's true. I don't like to tweak stuff. If it works. You haven't tried it.

And I'm proud of that. And I'm proud of that. I have not particularly. I like the Grim Reaper, that Hades broadhead. I know that one has performed like crazy. 100-grainer.

Been awesome. But I've used a number of them. G5 I've used. I used that for a minute. Yeah. Montech. I feel like I'm not so much picky as what it is, what brand or anything. It's just, it's got to shoot like a field tip. If it doesn't, I'll just shoot something else. Yeah. I don't like a fixed broadhead. I know. I was always a fixed broadhead shooter until a couple years ago when I got that Nevada elk tag. And I got shooting just right before my hunt and swapped over to an expandable. And it's the G5 dead meat. I've had great luck with it. Yeah. You shot two arrows, Wyatt. Yeah. Yeah. Killed a 375 bull and a 220 buck. 220 buck. Yeah. I'm two for two.

Yeah. I'd say they've treated you well. What would Wyatt do? The reason why we ask Wyatt, when it comes in, it rains all night long. We want to know if Wyatt says, boy, I wish I had a deer tag here in Southern Utah this year. Like, if he ever says that, watch out. It's going to be a year to watch out for. But anyway, Wyatt's usually right. When he's bold enough to say it, when you can get it out of him, the crypticness leaves, follow. Okay. What else, guys? Josh?

The one I've used the most is just a little slick trick. It's a four-blade fixed. It's really small, so it flies really good and everything. And I don't know. The same kind of thing with Wyatt. Like, it's killed everything I've hit with it. So I don't really feel like they need to change. I did start shooting after Wyatt was talking. It was hard to find some of those sometimes. And so I was shooting that dead meat, too, just practicing with it. But I haven't hunted with it or killed anything with it, I guess you could say. So see how it works. Did you say what you used to have, or do you have variety? And you just said most important, you want to shoot what shoots like your filter, what you've been practicing with. Mahogany obsidian instead of just a pure. He's got a little satchel that when you're out there, he pulls out for the situation. So you don't go red flint.

You like more obsidian black. Yeah. In case you have to just sharpen on the fly, you can reuse them. Got an array of burning, a couple of barbs. No, I shoot. I like Grim Reapers, too. Okay. I shot whack-ums. I like fixed three blades. That three-blade micro. I like that. I like a fixed three. That's just what I like. Go back and forth every other one with field tips, see what it does. And if it's matching, I'll run with it. Did Cash say?

If I use a fixed blade, I like that slick trick four-blade. And then the last few years, I haven't touched it. And I've been shooting the Sever 1.5 hybrid. I've heard good things about those. I've loved that. I've loved that broadhead. Killed a bull at 70 yards. No big deal. You've shot at a lot of bulls, too. A couple. What does that mean? I believe there's a YouTube episode recently released. I love watching the raw footage on some things. It's real. My own, too. I will say, there's a couple clips that you haven't seen. We are real around here. You don't think I've seen them. Unless Logan went against his word. We'll see if Logan's honest or not. I'm just saying. Is your name at the bottom of his paycheck? I'm just saying. That's true. That's true. Yours is. Mine's not. That's true. I think Logan's pretty honest with Adam and I and John. Yeah, there's a loyalty there. Good answer.

I could quiz you to see if you've seen one. Hey, I forget what happened yesterday. Does it change for mule, deer, and elk? Do you guys? I don't. I don't change my broadhead for deer and elk. Do any of you guys do that? Okay. Some people I know. If we're doing Cape Buffalo, we might do something. Some people. Some people. None of you. But we don't want to use the expanded pole for elk as much versus a fixed blade. I don't know why. I mean, if a fixed really shoots well, why would you? I just don't understand. You know, why would you run to the mechanical? I've always. My only thing with elk and fixed blades is if it's not a pass-through, what's happening inside while it's moving? Or if it is broke off, it's going to cut, cut, cut. If it pulls back, right, and it's working its way out, it's not cutting anything. Yeah. So with time, it's not doing more damage.

But that's been my only thought. It's not. One thing, I think we're jaded a little. The old guys are jaded a little bit on mechanicals because you throw rubber bands on them. I don't know. It just weren't built like they are today. So I'm not saying they're bad. They're awesome. People kill a lot of stuff with mechanicals. We saw the firsts come out, and they were janky. That's just. If you look up janky in the magazine, it has a picture of the first mechanical brought up with the rubber bands. And there's some other things, too, that are in there. Yeah, we'll think about it. That we've dealt with. What is it? Dolores Elkhunt? Is that where you don't use your janky truck? Your janky vehicles? We had to use it. So Adam. For all of you guys that ever saw that and had a chuckle, that was an insider. Adam and I challenge each other to use certain words.

Once in a while, we throw out one word to each other. Say, throw it in the state somewhere. Just throw it in there and see if it gets through the editor. Sure enough, Jan is like, really? You want to use this? Yeah. Yeah. We're leaving it. It fits. It fits. It's fine. It's not the place to take a janky vehicle. Somebody's not going to quit. Over our use of English on that particular hunt. I love finding those. You know what they are when you see them. I love it. All right. Well, here's another one. This one's a little bit. Well, there's a couple office questions. There's one, and I don't know how we answer this one because we rarely hunt together. This has got to be the last one because it's 105 degrees in here. No, we're not near done. But there's a big, there's a doozy at the end. I don't want to ruin it for you. There's a doozy.

But who in the office is the best glasser at finding deer? What are some glassing tips? I don't know how we answer that because we don't hunt together. We don't. Wait. I will say I've glassed next to Jason a lot, and any time I can see a deer before he does, it's like I won the lottery. I've glassed next to Devin, and I think he's amazing. I've glassed next to Wyatt, and he's made a living glass. So I think there's, I feel like we're all in this industry and been in it a long time, and there's a reason for it. I feel like we're pretty darn good at it. I think we have favorite systems like gridding patterns. I feel like there's places I'm going to sit up and I'm going to look first. There's places you guys would look a little bit different. So speed might vary slightly on picking something up. Sometimes you can't explain why you do what you do sometimes. Exactly.

You just have done it, and I think that the biggest tip is to do a lot of it. Be patient and glass a lot. Yeah. That's how you'll learn. I feel like I lack in, I know what I lack, and I think we all probably know what we lack in. I lack in, I think, patience. Like I'm a kind of speed to a fault. It's good sometimes, but it's. Sometimes you cover more ground, but sometimes you miss stuff. Oh, you miss stuff. Like sometimes just chill out for a second, you know. Yeah, you'll see guys come out, whether they're one eye in a spotting scope next to you, and you know, you think everything's here so I can see everything with 12 or 14s. Yeah. And you got somebody, usually it's like a hunter or something, and they're panning with a spotter with one eye, which I hate to do, by the way. And all of a sudden, like, I got a buck, antler bedded. I do it all the time. And you're like.

I'm not a fan of that, but Kevin does it. Yeah. I don't like it. I'm talking long. Well, and I'm not talking long stuff, because we've all done that when you're like, I need more. I couldn't pack the BTX and the spotter and my glass, but then all of a sudden find an ear or a piece of antler, and they walk you to it, and you're like, oh, yeah, I see that now. I think a lot of your success class and also is based off your level of engagement for that particular hunt or day. That's right. So some days I'm just off, but I'm also like, if I don't have the conviction that there's something big there, I'm on a, let's call it a Utah general somewhere. I'm just not as effective. If I treat it like an Arizona strip type tag. I would say that's more important than any other strategy or grading. It's what is in your mind.

Like, I think Devin, what's impressed me about Devin, he can go 10 days without checking in with society. Like, let's just say it was a Nevada deer hunt. Let's just say. He can go, he is, his level of engagement is excessive. Yeah. And is what I think is a good reason for his success is every day he's excessively engaged. Yeah. And not checking his phone, not checking email, not checking social media. I'm, if I can get service, I'm like, I'm 15 minutes on. Who's killing something today? Oh, I'm 15 minutes off and two minutes on social. Okay. And then I'm another 15. Yeah. Devin's, Devin's maybe to a fault, you could say to the point, because he can get married one week and then not check in with his new bride for two straight weeks right after that, right? Well, that was Garmin and AT&T. That wasn't me. No, but the rest of us would have fixed it. Devin's like, I'm hunting moose right now.

I'm in Alaska. That is a good point. I appreciate that. I mean, I think it's. I think the level of engagement. But I think down to the morning, like sometimes I'll be, I'll be in a place and I'm like, I know there's a buck here. And I have convinced myself in my mind, there's a buck bedded in here and I'll find one. I'll find an ear. I'll find antlers. But then sometimes like, I'm like, dude, the day is over. Yeah. There's not jack. I'm over. I'm out of here. And because you say there's not jack, you might as well start driving home. You start speeding up. I'm glassing with my tans. Hand holding. Hand holding. I haven't set up. Don't say nothing. And that's when I missed out. That was exactly what I thought. I hit it hard. I think Wyatt's level of engagement up there on his deer hunt last year up north, no joke, level of engagement.

And I feel like there's a difference between we're all, if you're just going through the motions because I've got this tag and I really feel like I really just wish I was home. I've hunted too much this year. You know what I mean? One thing I'll know, when I know a deer is there, and what I mean by that is I've either seen it scouting, and you just assume he's not killed by a lion. You can't assume, okay, a week or two later he's already dead. You don't, we never assume that until you see birds and find him. And you go days, two, three, four days, there he is right there where you've been looking. Or you watch your buck, you watch your target buck, and you watch him bed right after daylight, and you're like, how was I on him? I just got lucky to find him. Yes. And now he lays there for two hours. Doesn't get up. Barely can see a piece of him. Yes. You know he's there.

And you go back, and you're glassing everywhere else, and you go back every once in a while, and I know how he's moved, and then you'll see him barely move. And you're like, that teaches me to, like, slow the crap down because that deer is laying there, and while I'm, quote, babysitting him looking for other stuff, I'll go back, and I'll convince myself four times. Always got up and moved because you move for five or ten minutes and come back, and then he moves, and you're like, he's still right there. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's when you realize pump the brakes, there's more here potentially. But I learned a lot. Also, when that happens, too, is I realize when I watch them bed at the crack of daylight, I'm like, I feel useless. I feel like hour two through four is an absolute waste of time because this is what they're doing. In Nevada, they avoid sun like the freaking plague.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Even if it's cold. They just hate the sun. They're trained to hate the sun. They hate the sun. They don't want to be in the sun. I think part of that, too, because you know that a small amount of time is so valuable, I always go too fast at that time. You're like, I got to hit this, this, this, this. They're on their feet right now. I got 30 minutes. You're looking for a white butt only. If it's an archery, white butt only. You're scouting in the summer, it's archery. I'm not going to change that. I think that's good. I think you cover as much as fast as you can because if you're just micro-focused on one place. In the first 30 minutes or an hour, you're missing. Your day's shot. Now a coos deer hunter is going to argue with you and say, slow down. That's a whole different animal. Yeah, that's a different deal. That's when you pan with a BTX at 1,000 yards.

You live behind a BTX. Yeah. And your neck's sore because it's angled. You know? You're cross-eyed just because. You've got cramps in your legs. You're cussing. Lower back. You're cussing the angled. Why do we have to have angled? Why wouldn't they make a straight? Tell me another pair of binoculars that are angled. You're taking more ibuprofen than you should be. All right. You're double chasing it with Tylenol.

It's affecting liver, things like this. That's right. Kidneys. Yeah. Newt, another question. Two more and I promise we're done. So this is a fun one. This is for Josh and Wyatt. Oh, I like it. You are the team captains for the company basketball game. Who would they pick for their teams and why? Oh, come on. That's a question. I didn't make that up. Who gets to pick first? That's legit. Rock, paper, scissors right now. That's determined right now. Do it. Quick. Quick. Play the game. We're way off.

You're way off. You got him. You got him. You cut me. Take someone. My first pick would probably be Adam. Of course. You got him. Height. And he plays. Got him. And he plays. The other Viking is on the other team. I can't remember what the Monticello gym was called, but he spent a lot of time in there. I don't know. I haven't been back for a while, right? I've been waiting for him to call the retirement number. I haven't been back for a long time.

So it might have a name. I'm taking Devin because he's going to take Adam out. And he says he can dunk a ball still. No. Can you really? No. You could at one time. I'm 5'8 and a quarter. So is that why you think he's a quarter? So you think Devin's going to undercut me when going for a layup? Yeah. I'm not a center, dude. I'm a point guard. I'm just telling you. Devin's. So Josh thinks you're dirty, so he wants you. He thinks you're the Bill Lambert today. I bet I could still touch the net.

Well, then I'd have to be next. I'd pick Carter because I think it'd be a hard screen to move once he got set. I think Carter's bouncing off it. I think Carter's bouncing off it. That's right. I'm out. All right. Well. Let's get out of this freaking sweat freaking filled room. You want to save the very best one for another one or not? Let's hit it. Okay. Real quick. Let's hit it if it's dealing with Pollock. No. It's dealing with. What changes would you make if you were suddenly in charge of Utah DWR in regards to deer? Let's save it. I feel like we've answered this. Are we so over them? Maybe. Yeah. My gosh. Do we have to end on a downer? What does your writing say? I can't read that. Something. How about this? How about this? Buck, dough, ratios. How about we suggest? This is in red, so this is Jason's thoughts. Fires. What do you mean? Start fires? Something about starting fires?

Lights of people out. Gasoline and matches?

Here, let me put my glasses on. Buck, dough, ratios. That's Carter for sure. Five bucks. I'm sober. I just think they should suggest what they really want to have happen. Gain the public's trust back. And instead of working in and around janky weapon types and things like that, just give tag numbers. Give the people what they want. Give the vocal public what they want. That's what I think.

Even meeting in the middle would be better than what we're doing. We're not meeting in the middle. If we think we're meeting in the middle, it's off of numbers that are inflated. Hey, I'm over it. You guys take it.

Take it. Yeah, there are two topics. One's general season. One's limited entry. I'm really, I've said it before, but I'm really bombed that they had to lower the limited entry and premium limited entry buck to dough ratios last year. We only get like, let's call it one and a half, two percent of the deer tags in the state under limited entry or whatever. You know, call it 80,000 versus what? About 1,500 or something. They gave the extra tags in some management seasons or things like that. I mean, they tried to mitigate that a little, but it's still. Yeah. And okay. Yeah. But let us have something. If you're going to take it down on this end on the general and lower number 15 to 17 bucks per hundred, which I'm sorry, there were some people that wanted it, but all the surveys, all the surveys. It doesn't work.

Before that, saying that wasn't the majority of it, and that's what we're getting. But why take that on the other end as well? Why genericize, just make our deer hunting vanilla in Utah? We're so vanilla. We're vanilla without good vanilla flavor. Well, it doesn't have to be that way. We can offer a ton of opportunity. We just don't have to have everything go that way or so much opportunity that it's just not even close to a good experience. So anyway, I don't know. I'm happy, though. I'm over it. Like, we've made this hard for the last two or three years. But we also got to remember, these people submitted these about three months ago, and this was a hot topic, this question. So we have moved on. We've had happenings come and go since then. And we've, you know, obviously things got passed. I think even the Division of Wildlife were surprised with what they got passed this year,

because I think people's you-know-what was busted a little bit. A little. I think it was busted. I think it's okay to listen to the people that are vocal. I mean, if there's so much need for tags for everyone, if there's so much, the silent majority is so big, why do we have a bunch of leftover tags? Yeah. When's the last time that happened? That's a valid great question. Limited entry. If it's all about tags. Yeah, limited entry. You didn't see muzzleloader tags on any of these units last year that were available when it was just a regular muzzleloader. So where's the silent majority taking them up? Yeah. Take them. To have them. Everybody had a chance to get a tag. Yeah. So all right, back off that number of tags next year and leave that to the new number of tags. That's about who wanted them. It's just good, because you see them using things like Antelope Island as examples for deer,

or like cactus bucks. Buck-to-doe ratio. Cactus bucks for animal growth. And what that does to farm production. Cactus bucks. Cactus bucks for age growth and antler growth and stuff. Look, this buck didn't even grow. He's 90 years old. Yeah. He's a normal buck. He's a normal buck. Yeah. That would be one to base everything off of. He wasn't any different when he was three or nine. From two to ten, he looked the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we got the more cheatgrass than anywhere in the world. Yeah. Antelope Island's the worst habitat for deer in the state of Utah, and we're using that somehow as an example of what a high buck-to-doe ratio can do to keep your population from growing. And the quality in the 14,000 other little variables. And extrapolate that to other units. I think that's a kind of $20,000, $30,000 deer. You want to really get going on there.

I think we are in challenging times. We're always trying to find that weird place that was overlooked, maybe tags. There were some places in Colorado they cut tags maybe more than- What do we call those? What they needed. Well, I don't know. Josh knows. Tender mercies. Okay. Happy accidents. Okay. There we go. And I can't say it. It's just- Anyway. So, there we are. Anyway. So, the accident, the management accidents that happen, we're trying to pay attention to. But I think there's states like Nevada that are just dealing with dry weather and long-term drought over the course of time. And they're actually high buck-to-doe ratios right now according to their records and files and surveys and whatnot. Yeah. It's just interesting. I'm excited for the future. Their county advisory boards and wildlife commissions are so drastically different, though. Yeah. In that state, they-

They have all the survey data in the world to say- We can give more. Adam, I mean, way over $35 per hundred does. But they're like, no, we're not- We don't want to go too fast. That's all it is. And the NDALs politely saying, well, maybe we need to revisit our management. If you don't want to do this, we don't know what you want. And they're saying, all we know is it's not ready because the quality's not here. Yeah. We don't want to take it before it's there. We don't want to anticipate a two-point crop and crush the tags. Yeah. That's what we get into it. And whereas a lot of the boards, including ours, say, well, the Bows is no best. Well, why do we have you then? Why do we have you? Let's just let the DWR do it all. Just set up the tags and draw them. Why do we have a board? I would just like to know that. You know? So, anyway. Off we go. It's great.

We're excited for this year, though, actually. Yeah. I mean, Wyatt and his unlimited antelope, I'm excited. I'm going to go apply, Wyatt, if you're good with it. We got a few hours left. So, there's the one thing is, though, Wyatt, where this is unlimited. He doesn't actually have to link to your application like you would if it was a real draw. So, you better watch him actually do it. Once it's submitted, I know you can't amend it. So, it's good. But if you do it and he says he's going to do it, you better watch him. Then you've got to pay for it. Well, there's no affidavit after 5 o'clock and we're to 420.

Affidavit, driver's license, 14 layers of proofs and IDs. I've got one question for looking to the future. What's the most primitive weapon they could go? Most ineffective one. Addle, addle, addle, addle. Why did we all think of that? That's weird. Well, we learned that in Utah history in the first and second grade. I'd love to smoke something with an addle, addle. That would be awesome. Unlimited tags on the most ineffective weapon you can find. But you give technology and some U-tards two years. They'll perfect an addle. You can kill something 125 yards. Hey, we're going to have a turret. They'll have a turret for an addle. You give it two years and you'll have to back off. Have you seen those bionic legs that help you run? They'd be just a... Probably made by a U-tard. Oh, 100%. If you want an idea, yeah, go watch Hunger Games, Catching Fire.

Go watch some of that stuff you see out there. You'll see that stuff show up.

I mean, geez. You think it's primitive. Just wait 48 months. John, weren't you going to say about next week's giveaway? Yeah, I just wanted to remind everybody. We've got our summer hunt giveaway in full swing. And we've got weekly drawings. So if you buy tickets this week before Friday and midnight, you'll be in for a pair of EL range TA 10x42 binoculars. And if you get a ticket package. Then, starting Saturday, we're going to the primitive week, which is a Hoyt RX-9 carbon bow and a CVA muzzleloader. What did we decide on the muzzleloader? An Acura LRX. LRX. So, yeah, don't laugh at us when we call it primitive week. But you know what we're talking about. Bows and muzzleloaders. We realize they're carbon fiber bows, RX-9, top of the line, best Hoyt they make. And same thing with the CVA muzzleloader. But, hey, we're giving two of them. I like it. We gave a rifle away a week ago.

Give us the binos this week. Love it. Just go to our website, epicoutdoors.com. The main banner, the first thing you'll see will be the summer hunt giveaway. Or you can call us, 435-263-0777. If you need any help with any of the draw tags you got or outfitters, outfitted hunts with guaranteed tags. Devin, you've got tons of deals. We've got a lot going on. You need a hunt for this fall, there's no reason not to have one. Give us a holler. If you draw a tag, call us. We want to help you. We can help you get started with DIY. Guided, whatever it is. Yeah. We've got DIY antelope tags in Utah. We've got guided hunts. We've got lots of stuff kicking around. We've got cancellation moose hunt in BC. I mean, give us a call on stuff. We've got stuff coming in every day right now. That's right. Family antelope hunt. I am very, very, extremely affordable. Landlord tags and kill great bucks.

100% kill. So, anyway. Give us a holler. 4, 3, 5, 2, 6, 8, 6, 7, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic approved outfitters and members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas. No more applying for a unit where there has been a die off. And no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home.

Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new Guide Pro Series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again, the Epic Outdoors licensed application service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications. You'll never miss a deadline. You'll never apply for the wrong unit.

And you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors license app. 435-263-0777. If you want a bow from the best manufacturer there is, look at Hoyt Archery. With the addition of the new Carbon RX-8 and the Aluminum Alpha-X, Hoyt has reimagined what a bow can do. Hoyt bows. Where 70 pounds feels like 60. Call us to order yours today. 435-263-0777. With Fierce Rifles, every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next Fierce Rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official Fierce Rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 435-263-0777.

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