EP 37: A Love of Hunting with Ryan Foutz of Kings Camo

I wore a pair of boots out and I wouldn't trade that hunt for anything. You know, there's just not a lot of guys in the industry that have done as much as you've done. A sheep hunt can change you. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here along with Adam Bronson, the Epic Outdoors podcast. Just another episode. I'm not sure where we're at, 30 or 40, who knows. But anyway, done quite a few podcasts over the last little bit of time and had a number of awesome guests. We've got another awesome guest with us here today. We're going to be talking to Ryan Fouts of Kings Camo. So both Adam and I have known Ryan for many, many years. He's been an incredible partner of Epic, you know, in our existence here. But he's also one of those guys that's just had a ton of experience with a lot of different companies. He's hunted a lot of Western big game animals. And he's just got a great enthusiasm for hunting Western big game.

He operates a CWMU program here in Utah, which is private land, you know, that also has guaranteed tags for moose, deer, and elk. And he's been a large part of many people's big game hunting success over the years. He's a sheep fanatic, been the president of UFANOS here in Utah for many, many years before he's moved on. And then just a lot of different things from Sportsman's Warehouse to Kings Camo to Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife and Conservation Group's presence. So anyway, super appreciative of Ryan spending some time with us here today. Can't wait to get into the middle of this. Before we do, we'd like to thank Under Armour for sponsoring all of our podcasts, as well as being another great partner of us here at Epic Outdoors and the different projects that we're working on. So anyway, super appreciative of them and the support they bring to the hunting industry.

We've just got a lot of great partners here at Epic. And we owe a large part of our success to them, as well as you, the customers. So anyway, thanks for listening in. And we're going to get Ryan on the phone here.

Hi, this is Ryan. Hey, it's Jason. What do you know? Hey, how are you, Jason? Good. I've got Bronson here, too, so don't talk bad about him. We're rushing you? You've got a staff meeting there you're in, or you've got some time? No, I've got some time, guys. Thanks. Appreciate the opportunity. Yeah. All right, man. Well, let's see. As we get started here, why don't you just give us a little bit about your background, you know, and tell us, you know, kind of what brought you to where you're at today. Well, you know, I guess my biggest influence is probably like a lot of us, was my dad, you know, getting into hunting in general. And I remember being seven, eight years old, and my dad hauling me around out in Farmington Bay on the opening day of the duck hunt. And he'd sit me on a muskrat nest, you know, literally, because I didn't have waders at the time.

So I'd haul him, he'd haul me around on his back, and I'd sit on a muskrat nest. And I remember the opener used to start at 12 o'clock noon. And I remember sitting out there in the sun, and then the ducks flying by, and I just was mesmerized at a young age by duck hunting. And then, of course, my dad groomed me through not just waterfowl, but also into deer hunting and, you know, deer camps with my grandpa and my cousins and kind of the party hunting that we used to do. And, you know, I've just kind of gravitated through the years into the hunting world. Surprisingly, my career actually started out in retail back when I was 23. And I went to work for Nordstrom, which is kind of an odd place for where I'm at now. But it gave me a good background, a solid background in retail.

I worked for him for 14 years and was able to kind of move through the company as a buyer, a merchandiser, and a store manager. So I saw every level. And I saw that side of the business. I then went to work for Sportsman's Warehouse and worked for them for about eight years as a store manager and a marketing director for about five years. As they grew as well. And I think I left when they had about 46 stores. And they went up to about 70, I think. And had a hiccup there. And now they're back. And then worked to work for a conservation group, Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife, which I really enjoyed. And helped them kind of right the ship a little bit and really get a good base in Utah. And probably my favorite thing about that in the conservation side was the people. Yeah. And the result. And I think those two things go hand in hand.

But it was really inspiring for me to see guys out on the ground that would really, you know, give of their time, their talent, and their treasure, I guess, their money, to support a group that they felt strongly about. And there's a lot of great conservation groups. I've come to know a lot more of them intimately through the business now and the great things that they do. But I just really, really enjoyed that. And then, of course, Adam knows this. But I was Utah Fanon's president for, I think, seven years or so. And then he took the reins after I did. And now that's actually transitioned over to Travis Jensen. But all of that involvement in conservation over the last, because I've really been involved probably the last 15 or 20 years, has really inspired me.

But it's also probably educated me and seasoned me a bit on the hunting side of things and how conservation plays such a big role in what we get to do and the things we love to do. Yeah, I think that's probably, Ryan, those roles that you played. Well, with sportsmen, but then when you started with sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, that's probably when at least you and I probably got acquainted with each other. You were running banquets all over the state of Utah, which is, at least as far as I know, where you've lived your whole life. But, yeah, you were, you know, would see it three or four of those a year. And, you know, there's anybody that's been involved in something like that realizes how much time, effort, passion, dedication it takes to put those on repeatedly over and over and over.

And, you know, and while you were there, the Western Hunting Conservation Expo started, if I'm not mistaken. So you were, I mean, you were involved there from year one, too, weren't you? Yeah, it was. In fact, I think it was up through year seven. And I think they just celebrated their 10-year anniversary with that expo, which has really turned out to be, I think, probably one of the premier, I guess that you can call it a consumer show, but a convention for two conservation groups who do good things. I mean, it really is for Western hunting and what they have to offer. I mean, we've got some, I think that thing is really, they've really done a good job, both Mule Deer Foundation and Sports and Fish and Wildlife has done a good job to really attract some, you know, some great people who come from all over the world now, really. Yeah, no, we 100% agree with you.

We have a booth there, you know, the last few years, and it's just been amazing, the traffic that comes through there and truly made up of some of the most hardcore, you know, Western big game hunters there is. And so, anyway, it's just one of those opportunities. We get to see everybody face-to-face, including guys like you, and, you know, just catch up on things. And then, you know, guys get to see all these new products. Of course, you know, King's Camo, you guys, you're now with King's. And so, anyway, obviously, you have a great big booth, and you're selling and showing a lot of different products and selling a lot of different products and stuff. And so it's got to be, you know, it's got to have been good for you as well. Oh, it has. It's in, you know, I started here at King's.

There was a change in ownership about four years ago, and I'm one of the managing partners along with Judd Nelson and Kevin Pritchett, who's the primary principal owner. Kevin's been great to work with, and we saw a great opportunity with a great company to acquire about four and a half years ago. And most people know King's. If you're in the West, we have a pretty good footprint. People know about King's Camo. Absolutely. It's been around 20 years, and I think, you know, from a Western pattern standpoint, I think there would be a lot who would agree that we were kind of the innovators of Western pattern. Adam and I were talking about that this morning, actually, just as we were, you know, we were on the phone with different people and whatnot. And it just, when we got a break, our offices are next to each other anyway.

And we got talking about, you know, how long that King's Camo pattern's been around. And, of course, you had Desert Shadow and some different things. But it, you know, and some of the bucks, we actually remember your pattern being behind, you know, on kill photos and stuff. And some of the significant deer, you know, over the years, of course, we're kind of talking about deer. It's just on our brain right now. But, you know, guys are using them for a variety of species, using your Camo pattern. But we got talking about it. And it is, it does feel like King's Camo was kind of the innovator of having a Western pattern. And, as you know, I mean, we're not a whitetail world that has, you know, a million hunters in Pennsylvania alone. I mean, you know, there's not that big of a footprint compared to whitetails out here in the West.

But, you know, it does feel like, and I don't know, we were just kind of going from memory. I mean, there's some other brands out there that have Western patterns. But it feels like yours was the first. Yeah, yeah. And there's probably somebody that might have been, but I, you know, I've wore it for years and years and years. And that goes back to when I was with Sportsman's Warehouse. You know, we had a pretty good presence back then. And I remember back in, geez, 2007, I killed a Wasatch archery bull. And, you know, I looked at those pictures the other day, and I was wearing Mountain Shadow and the pattern that they've done back then and how it kind of relates to different landscapes. But we've kind of had that alpine, greener pattern in mountain and then desert for more of that sagebrush and more arid climates. Yeah, see, that's the pattern I feel.

You know, as we all, I don't know, grew up hunting out West, you know, we start off with whatever you could get, army surplus, this and that when you're kids. But then as Camel really seemed to be, you know, the growing fad and what's new, it was always, it seemed like hardwood patterns back east. You know, whitetail, and I get it. You know, if you're a bigger company, the volume of sales is to whitetail hunters. But, you know, for us that live out here, they just didn't seem like they resonated with us. And you guys seem to, you know, even though I know that was prior to you and Kevin and Jed owning it, it just seems like Kings was the first one that said, all right, we're going to fill the niche for Western hunting patterns for guys. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. And, you know, we had a great opportunity. We saw a great company that had been established with their patterns.

And they've had a couple ownership changes and really wasn't growing. And when we acquired the company four years ago, we really looked at it as an opportunity to take something that was already great and make it even better. And I think that's really what we've done. We really try to be diversified in who our customer is. And when I say diversified, I mean, you know, there are, we're still a stick and leaf. We'll call it a stick and leaf pattern because that's primarily what we have. I mean, we really have leaves and sticks and brush and grass and pine boughs and other things in our pattern. But we knew that the patterns worked and we knew that they resonated well. But what we wanted to make sure that we stayed true to is our core base of customer, which is we kind of have an entry level called our classic series, which is more price point driven. Everybody's on a budget.

You know, we have different levels of incomes in the, in this, those who hunt and fish and in the great outdoors. And we know that. And so we started kind of with classics and then we moved into a hunter series, which was, is mostly made up of polys and larger sizes. I can fit a really big guy up to four X and a 46 waist. And, and he can stay comfortable and, and know that he's still getting a good value. And then we developed when we got here, a line called XKG, which is extreme King's gear, which is a performance based layering system. And that has really, really done well. So we kind of have good, better, best. And that best being, you know, XKG, we've, um, as you all know, you've watched the, uh, the clothing industry evolve, uh, pretty dramatically. I'd say in the last seven, eight, nine years. Yeah. No question. Like that.

You know, every, we all used to, you guys know the day when you used to wear a big parka and try a pair of Wranglers or jeans and. Yeah. Whatever. We wore whatever. Cotton, anything. Cotton pants. Yeah. And we were usually miserable, but we didn't know it. Yeah. But you didn't know it. You were having so much fun. You kind of forgot about it. Right. You know, you were freezing to death. I remember my, my Levi's hunting deer in late October with boots or my feet were freezing and wet. And from the knee down, my, my pant legs were froze. Wicked up. The water wicks up and then freezes. Yeah. Levi's. Well, yeah. So I was noticing, I was noticing on here, you had different, like you've been, you talked about the XKG, but then you got the Hunter series, the Classic series and the Sport series. And that's what you're talking about. Good, better, best.

But the Sport series looks more like maybe a lifestyle or maybe just, you know, scouting and things like that. Yeah. In fact, we're introducing, as you know, solids seem to be coming back pretty strong in the marketplace. Guys want to wear a solid pant, but still be branded or tops. And we're introducing those in, uh, around holiday time and for next spring. Um, a lot of guys just wearing a good four way stretch pant. That's comfortable where they can shed, hunt in or fish in or camp in or, or frankly, even hunt in. Yeah. I like those a lot. In more tonal, tonal colors. So, you know, we just try to adapt to what the market has out there and what our customers are asking us for. Um, I don't know if most people know, but we're primarily a, a, we're really a hunting apparel manufacturing company. And what that means, I guess, to those out there is that we're a wholesaler.

We really sell to, um, to our dealers. Um, we're not really a sell to direct, although we have a little outlet and an online presence, but, uh, you know, sportsman's warehouse and shields and Murdoch's and, uh, oh, let's see. IFA, you know, to throw out a few Cal ranch is a big one locally, you know, Smith and Edwards. And we got a lot of small dealers. I mean, crossed, uh, we've been in Dick's sporting goods and working with them again. And so really trying to have a good footprint and, and a good, uh, a good presence out there in the market where people can take advantage of, of King's camo and what we have to offer. We just want to make sure that we stay diversified and cover, uh, you don't need to edit this, but, you know, we call it the asses of the masses.

There's a whole bunch of people in a range of, of what they can afford. And we feel like we offer something for everybody for everybody. Yeah. Well, I noticed on here, um, tell me a little bit about USA made, obviously, um, you know, Brand new. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Brand new. Give me a little rundown on this. You know what? We came across the manufacturer back East on the East coast. That is, um, as you know, most manufacturing has gone away from the U S for various reasons. I mean, just trying to compete on the world market, especially in Asia is very difficult. And you, you know, people want to buy American, but can't afford to almost, um, we're under different regulations and, and it caught dredge cost up us labor, uh, and the regulations probably take us out. We found, we found a manufacturer, um, that we felt could do a good job.

And we just introduced that in late June, kind of around the 4th of July for use USA made. And we did a four piece line. We're still working on a pant. We don't have a pant USA made pant to go with it, but we did a, uh, a short sleeve, a long sleeve. We did a quarter zip and then we got a couple of solid tops and we have one solid. That's kind of a base layer bottom. Yeah. Like a performance police pant. Is that what that is? Yeah. It is. Okay. But, uh, it's done really well. It's got big USA flag hang tags on it. And, um, we've specifically got, uh, comments from people right now. It's only available on online and our website. Yeah. Uh, and you should read some of the comments we've got. People are very appreciative that we've tried to build a product in the U S and, and support, you know, U S workers, employment, manufacturing, everything else.

And I think, uh, you know, we'll see what the future holds, but we're going to try to, to expand that and keep growing that, that side of the business where we can, as long as the, uh, as long as our customer will support it. So, and so with this USA made line, this was just based somewhat of a trial and you're just kind of coming out slow. And then as long as it's accepted and the hunters are willing to support you in it, um, then you'll continue to grow that line and, and, you know, provide USA make made, uh, hunting gear for people as long as they support your company. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, in business, everybody knows that if you're, if you're making and selling products, you got to have buyers. And, and if, if people are willing to support that, it is a little bit more in comparison to some of the stuff we get out of the Asia market. Uh, but it's not bad.

I don't think, you know, I mean, it might be like a 15, maybe a 20% increase in price. Yeah. And something that would say comparable to what we may build in Asia. And I think that translates to people thinking that, Hey, I can spend a little bit more, but I know I'm supporting some manufacturing here in the U S. So, well, like you say, it's not something we're, we're used to when I say we're, I mean, all most all hunting clothing is not, is not made in the U S. Uh, for sure. So it's, you know, hunters will decide if they're, you'll know that pretty quick. I assume how much you expand that to these other lines that you've went through a minute ago. And, you know, you'll have to analyze price points and all that versus, you know, overseas stuff, but that's good. That's encouraging. That's cool. It really is. Yeah.

So what about, I know, you know, we talked about clothing and we won't get off it totally, but I know another thing you guys are always known for are your, are your calendars, the, the droolers, you know, for us people or everybody to some extent that has to, has to work part of their year in an office and whatnot. And it's something to daydream at and look at on the wall. Tell us a little bit about that. That's still part of what you guys do. I know the recreations of, you know, harvested animals, uh, for, for the most part, from the mule deer and elk standpoint, maybe other species, but. Yeah. And I've been lucky enough to have an animal or two on there. It's pretty cool what you guys do with that. Yeah. You know what? I mean, to be honest, when we, uh, again, we acquired a company, we kind of looked at all aspects of the business.

And I looked at that and we had an internal discussion that like, you know, our, our calendar is somewhat antiquated. You know, I mean, we all have a cell phone, a laptop, a iPad, whatever. I mean, you, you can manage your life through a calendar on an electronic device. You don't need, you know, we all think we all used to rely on it. At least I did. I used to have a desktop top calendar on my desk that I would manage my, my time by day or my appointments. And I didn't do that. But we soon learned that people weren't buying for the, for the calendar because all of those other devices exist. They were buying them for the photos. And we have built up just a, probably almost a religious following of these calendars and when they debut. So we do five calendars now and we do a, we do a mule deer calendar, an elk calendar, a whitetail calendar.

And then we do one that's called a bucks and bulls. And we take what we consider kind of the best of those three categories of deer and elk and put it into one calendar. And then we do a, a wildlife calendar as well. Yeah. Live animal, live animal stuff. Just, just live animals. But those are all recreations. Some of them are, most of them are all harvested animals by hunters. Uh, we try to get some giant stuff in there and then some of them are actually sheds. Uh, you know, geez, I got a bull in there this year coming out in 18 that, you know, from Washington state, that's like a four 30 bull that a lady found both sides. Um, you know, that we recreated, we were able to kind of give it a 40 inch inside spread. And then, you know, that, that score roughly is around 430 inches on a, on a bull. It's just, you know, that probably should be showcased at some point or somewhere. Yeah.

There's a few dead heads here and there. And, uh, we just, we just, this is an interesting story. We just did a whitetail that was originally mounted and it's still on the original mount from the Jonas brothers and has a certificate that from 1918 out of New York. Oh God. And Jonas brothers is, you know, widely famous for their taxidermy work. And, uh, it then hung in a bar in Cody, Wyoming for over 50 years. And so the horns are so patinaed black, probably from the smoke and cigars and, and everything else. And we were laughing in the office when we kind of got this one. Uh, and this deer has like triple drops on one side and a drop on the other and end up scoring like right out of close to 200 inches. Yeah. We were back in the early 1900s. And, uh, we were laughing about this deer, the stories and the things that it had heard the whole time in a bar in Wyoming.

Oh, I'm sure it's heard a few. But we're going to debut that one in the, uh, 2018 in the whitetail. And so with the count, the calendar sales are still good, Ryan, with, with all of our cell phones and all that kind of stuff. People are still buying those and just putting them behind their desk and all of that kind of stuff. You know what? I think, you know, shops, warehouses, offices, you know, you know, your homes. I mean, my wife uses one to, to, to kind of remember everything, you know, important dates in, in her office at home. And I think people just really enjoy the images and the stories behind the recreations. And, you know, you can't get that off electronic device. So, yeah. Tell us about the, uh, you know, the, uh, while we're on the subject of other things other than your clothing, uh, you got hats, backpacks, sleeping. I mean, I'm seeing a lot of different accessories.

And of course we've known you to do that for a number of years, like your optics covers and whatnot. And so, you know, tell us a little bit about that section of your business. Yeah, we've, uh, you know, obviously you in business, you're looking for different avenues of, uh, things that you can do, especially either off season or to compliment your current line. Um, you know, we've done a couple of sleeping bags. We've done about four different bags in the last couple of years. They've done very well. Um, again, kind of a camper bag, a price point camping plus 20. We did a mummy that's a zero degree, you know, at like 99 bucks. I think that's like the Hunter light one, isn't it? The Hunter light. It is Hunter light. Yeah. Is that how heavy? Do you remember how heavy that is off the top? That's 4.2 pounds packed down. Down to zero degrees. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a great value.

You do some shopping. You kind of see that price point. You're going to probably be in that upper, you know, one, 180 to 200 range for that rating. It's a great value. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. What else as far as accessories that you think you, I don't know, either sell the most of or really seem to do well for you guys? I mean, we all like our- We sell out of our backpacks every year. I'll give you a couple of reasons why I think that's the case. We've- Backpacks are always a moving target and something that you evolve in, right? You build a backpack and then you kind of do changes. So every year we've tried to enhance those changes, whether that be stress points, whether that be, you know, rain fly covers that we added this year to both series. So a guy doesn't have to buy a rain fly or a rain cover for his backpack. All of our packs come with hydrations.

You know, that's not an added thing that you got to go buy and then put in your pack, which is about a $30 value. But we, you know, in the building, we all hunt. We live, eat, and dream this just like you guys do in your office. Yeah. And doing that, and, you know, me and Jed are probably spending 30, 40 days a year in the field, you know, or as much time as we can, either personally hunting or hunting with friends or work associates or even customers. And having that opportunity, as you know, you get to go out and field test stuff and see what works and what doesn't. And we've really tried to take a lot of those things that we've always wanted or needed and implement into not just the clothing, but also into the accessories. And backpacks is one of those where our 2200 backpack, you know, it's got a center cam and

butt plate cup strap at the bottom where you can center your rifle or your bow down the back. So it's not offset to one side or the other where you've got to offset some weight. And with the straps, it also comes with the meat shelf, a lot of internal pockets. It's got two big side pockets, one for spotting scope and probably a tripod. You know, just a lot of things. YKK zippers, we beefed up the stress points, pass-through belt. It's vented on the back so the actual backpack isn't sitting against your back. It's got about a, probably a inch and a half, two inch gap in between there where you can get an airflow. Yeah. And then it's got some torsion bars as well that you can, you can move out and stiffen the pack up as the weight, as your load goes up. So. Yeah. Well, it's pretty incredible. I mean, you guys, I don't know if it's, you know, common knowledge or what, but I mean,

you do offer a lot of different options on these backpacks, whether it be, you know, your daylight shoulder strap waist pack or your 1800 or your 2200 or, you know, lots of different things. A full curl pack, like, which is, I mean, you've been discussing some of these things, but there is, there is an amazing amount of different assortment of options, you know, meat bags and just a ton of different stuff that you guys are offering. Yeah. And, you know, Jason, some of those, some of those that you mentioned are just, we've got some really good licensing partners too. Yeah. We know that we know that we can't do everything and we, we obviously have a pattern that resonates with the consumer. Yeah. Uh, so we license out our pattern on some things and, you know, horn hunter backpacks, which is the full curl on the main beams that we carry.

Those are made actually us and they're made here in Salt Lake. Wow. A good local company. They make the, uh, they also make the, uh, the bino hubs. They came out with the new Opt-X, which is a great new design for, um, kind of a chest, uh, bino system that's covered, you know, it's got a magnetic kind of, kind of top fold down top on it. It's done very, very well. And then they do all of the, uh, scope covers that you see, you know, for spotting scopes that we do. Uh, so we have some really good licensing partners as well that do a good job for us and represent our brand. So, and the bino hub, I just want to be clear just for people that aren't, you know, used to hearing that, but that, you know, it's, uh, I mean, it's your, it's a bino, it's a binocular case. I mean, it's the, the bino harness that we're all used to. It's just, but it's got your spin on it.

Obviously got a pocket for a rangefinder and a few different things on it. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Keep it close to your chest. It doesn't flap around. You bend over, it stays tucked against your chest. There's, and then obviously all the elements that the weather can do to your, to your optics, right. To protect them. So. Another thing that, uh, I've seen a little bit just cause we've been here in Utah, but you guys do have some vehicle accessories and things like that. We've seen, I don't know if it's Kevin's rig or if it's just the King's, King's truck or whatever. Are you guys stingy with that? Are you letting everybody wrap their trucks? What's the deal? No, we'll let anybody. You can buy, you can buy that 3M film and wrap your truck. Yeah, they, we've got a guy locally here that does a lot of them and they, you know, we

have various people that'll buy those sheets and, and do their four wheelers, their, you know, their razors, whatnot. And the other trucks, Kevin just, Kevin just actually got a new Raptor and had it done. It looked sharp. So. Good. Yeah. Well, good. And then other, uh, I mean, it's just, I, it goes on and on on what King's camel does. It's not just camel pattern on clothing, but you guys got other accessories for your trucks. You get, I mean, floor mats and seat covers and all kinds of stuff. Stuff again through your licensing partners and that, but you can, you can figure it out. One thing that I've always appreciated is I've had some kids growing up as you guys have always had kids line of clothing, which is frankly pretty hard to find. And, uh, it's really hard. And, you know, as fast as kids grow too, you know, they're only in it for about a year or

maybe two, and then they're needing something else. But tell us a little bit about that. I mean, some of it's actual kids camo for hunting, but then you guys, you got stuff for, you know, babies and all that. Uh, you know, little kids too. Just, you know, that's a unique, unique thing for a camel company to produce. Yeah. We just, uh, you know what you nailed it when you said, uh, kids grow like weeds, right? I mean, you know, you're buying shoes for your, your kids every four months, you know, they grow out of them, whatever. And what we found is parents don't want to have a big investment unless they've got like seven boys that they can pass from one to the next or girls, uh, you know, kids just grow out of clothing and they don't want that big investment. So what we've done is we've really tried to build kind of a kid's classic line, which is mostly cottons.

We do have an insulated jacket, hoodie, pant, short sleeve, long sleeve tee. Um, that's affordable. You know, we try to bundle these two, but our, our, our, our, our retail partners out there, you know, they sell out of it every year. The other component to that, the two, two areas of business that we see that some of the best growth percentages of growth are in kids and in women's. Yeah. And women's is that other facet of the hunting industry that's really taken off. And we just, just introduced literally like two, three weeks ago, a ridge pant in the women's, which is out of our XKG line, but it's a women's fit out of the same fabric. And women, uh, as you know, still want to look cute in the field. Yeah. They don't want to wear a guy, guys, they don't want to wear a guy's baggy, you know, traditional six pocket, uh, hunting cargo pant. Right. Correct.

So we, we developed this really cute, uh, pant and did a couple of tops with an XKG, a full zip hoodie and a, and a tee that, uh, kind of compliment those and have seen some really good results. And, uh, well, that's what I was wondering. I noticed, um, you on your women's line and of course we all know, we've seen on social media that, you know, there's other companies jumping on that. And, uh, but anyway, you do have quite a women's line and I was, you know, I've always wondered like, is it really, uh, a viable market? Is it something that you're actually selling, you know, a number of items for, or, you know, is it a market that's actually there? I've always wondered that. Yeah. And I don't think every woman is a necessarily a hunter. I'll take my wife, for example, you know, my wife doesn't necessarily hunt, but she loves to go. Yeah.

And one of our traditional things that we do in the spring is we do a, uh, uh, you know, a family Turkey outing. Yeah. And that's where she, she still needs to have all the gear, you know, head to toe. Yeah. And, uh, she may not be pulling the trigger or the release, but, um, she loves to go out and be part of that with our boys. And, and I have that experience and she still needs to have camo. And I think that's what we provide, but I've also seen a significant increase in the amount of women who have taken, taking up hunting specifically. And that's kind of exciting. I mean, it's not just exciting, uh, to see from a business standpoint, exciting to see from a, an engagement in the future of our, our industry. You know, we need to have as many people as we can, women, kids, men involved in that to make sure that we've got a future down the road.

Well, and it looks like too, like in this line, I mean, just for people that aren't, you know, aware, you've got the, the storm fleece jackets, you've got the hoodies, you've got the vests. Um, you know, like you said, these, these pants, you've got the XKG Ridge and, and the zip hoodies. And so, I mean, it's not just like, here's a couple of items. You've actually, you know, got a decent selection. And I don't even know if I'm looking at, you know, all of what you've got. You've probably got new stuff coming out that I'm not aware of. So we do. And we add that, add that as it, as it comes in. Adam, I think you mentioned too, the infant toddler. Yeah. I mean, it, you see. Let me tell you, you want an easy gift to give to your friends, family, uh, relatives when they have a baby. Yeah. We cannot go wrong with that. You cannot go wrong.

Usually it's relatively, uh, you know, it's kind of price point driven, but if, if the lifestyle of that family is hunting or outdoors, yeah, they'll love it. One of those, it's usually the best gift that they got. We hear it all the time. Yeah. There's not a kid. There's infant toddler overalls. Like, I'm definitely giving somebody some of those. Yeah. They're cute. Yeah. You, you can't make a kid can't look anything but cute in camo. Hey, whether it's a boy or a girl, you know, it'll, it'll, it'll look cute. But yeah. And I, I know with my kids, you guys always, I was able to buy stuff for my boy, Ty and, and, and things like that. So that's been great. And tell us maybe as a kind of a wrap up on everything, patterns and stuff like that. Tell us about the different patterns that you have. You guys have, you know, a handful of those, you know, maybe not counting just some stuff

you make in orange and things I realized, but, um, and then you got the women's pink, uh, but tell us about the different shadow patterns that you have. Um, just, uh, just briefly here. Well, yeah. And probably one we didn't, we didn't touch on that's really significant for us. And we do a big business in it's obviously seasonal, but it's our snow pattern. Yeah. Um, it's basically our desert pattern where we've been able to take that pattern and with the layers, um, reverse those out to white. So it looks like a snow pattern. A lot of sagebrush involved in it still. There's still some, still some element of breakup there. It's not solid white. It has, it has some, a little bit of brown and a little bit of that sage green in there that just kind of comes through on some of that, that white and, um, predator hunters specifically just love that we sell.

If we have a good winter, we'll sell out of that every year. And we do an insulated line, a coverup suit line. And, um, typically we usually have kind of a, uh, kind of a storm fleece top and bottom. That's, uh, that's also, uh, waterproof that, that guys can use. And, you know, some of the late hunts that are around in several States in Idaho and Utah have these late mule deer hunts. A lot of guys need whites, you know? Yeah. Uh, especially on Wasatch front here and some of those later seasons that they can go out. And, uh, yeah, you're hunting mule deer, archery mule deer on the front there in December. You know, it's just such a natural to have that. And you know what? There's a, there's one pattern that a lot of people probably don't know we have. And we do a three in one parka and we introduced a bib this year and it's our field pattern.

Field is basically kind of a, uh, uh, it's kind of a waterfowl. That's what I was going to say. That way. Looks like a waterfowl. Yeah. It is a great pattern. Uh, I'll tell you why it's so good is that even for the West and our marshes and most guys know this when those marshes go from green to brown, they, they are a lighter in nature. You know, you get those cactails and some of that stuff, this pattern, you just blend in. We've also done very well with that pattern in, in the Midwest and the CRP type fields. And, and some of those guys hunting geese and fields. So that's an, that's an opportunity for us to expand that line. And we're looking to do that. Uh, we also, uh, one of you mentioned earlier that, you know, the whitetail community and the hardwoods patterns, um, we know to grow our business that we need to, to tap into some of that market.

And we're developing, uh, a pattern right now that we hope will, uh, resonate with that, that Midwest East coast, uh, hunter and sportsman. And, um, we hope to debut that here in the next 18 months. Is that the, what is this? Is this the woodland or which one are you talking about? No, this will be a, this will be a brand new pattern. We are working on internally right now. We're excited about it. It takes a lot of work to get a pattern, right. Uh, we want to make sure that we do some field testing and get some other people involved. Uh, so we're going to take our time and make sure that when we do launch this, that it's, that it's correct, that it's right, that it resonates with consumers. And, uh, and woodland is, woodland has done. Okay. We've done that before, but, uh, that probably needs an update, you know, and I think that this new pattern will, will do that for us.

So that's awesome. So that's kind of, I mean, have you, have you outwardly publicly told anybody about this or is it just, is this podcast the first time you're discussing? I think podcast. Yeah. I think you guys are hearing it for the first time. So that's pretty special. What else we, what else you got going on over there? Yeah. Anything else of interest? Is that one of the, probably the more bigger things that you can announce would be that, um, hardwoods, you know, white tail type pattern that you're working on. That's not too secretive. No. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's kind of what's coming down. We're constantly working to improve our current line and new products. We introduced three new, three new things this year. You know, we have Merino wools for base layers and, and various things. And, you know, to tell our story better, we're also doing through hang tags, all of our XKG

lines can have polygene on it this year. A lot of people are familiar with that, which is an antibacterial, you know. Yeah. Uh, they can put on the garment, which will really reduce your scent from bacteria. It won't hold bacteria in it. It's good for up for 150 washes, but it's something that we need to continually do and educate, uh, the consumer about, you know, as to what they're buying and why they're, why would they buy that? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty excited about that. No, and we're excited for fall, man. I guess you guys are, you guys. Oh, it's coming. A big list. It's coming, right? Yeah. Well, uh, next, next Tuesday I'm going across the pond, uh, on a tour. Hunting roe deer in England? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. I was wondering if the pond meant Antelope Island or what are you talking about? Which pond do you cross them? Oh, the Atlantic, I guess. The big one. Yeah.

Tell us where we're going. Yeah. We, we were up the other day with the Red Rock Precision boys and I believe Kurt's going with you. He told us a little bit about it, but for our listeners, maybe that, that, um, heard that or where are you headed and what you hunting? Oh, you know what? It's just one of, it's kind of a bucket list thing. You know, a few years ago, I had an opportunity to go to Mongolia and harvest really nice, uh, uh, all Thai Ibex. And when we did that and the guys I went with on the plane ride home and you get talking about, okay, what's the next adventure? We, we kind of settled in on this, uh, Dagestan tour that's in a country called Azerbaijan. And it's just one of those things. I think what intrigued me most about the hunt wasn't necessarily the animal, although I'm excited to harvest a tour.

It's, it was kind of where they live in the mountains they live in, which are the Caucasus mountains, which come out of Russia and down into Azerbaijan. And they're just some of the steepest, nastiest. They are from what I've seen. And so the challenge is, you know, or I guess some of the excitement, what we're looking forward to is just where they, where they live and how you have to hunt them. And it's, uh, that's kind of the reward. True mountain hunting. They're a neat animal. They have short little stocky legs. I think they say a mature male weigh about 300 pounds and they've got kind of a unique horn configuration for a, I guess they haven't established them as a sheep or a goat. They kind of qualify as both. So, yeah. Yeah. They kind of go back off the head more in between a sheep and an Ibex kind of in the middle. They do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. That's awesome.

So you're leaving here in a week for that. What, how long will it be? How long will you be over there? Uh, it's actually a five day hunt be gone about nine days with travel. Oh, not too bad. Yeah. Yeah. So that kicks you off. And then what about after that? I know you, you. Oh, I got kind of a dry spell. Do you? Yeah. Well, I know you also, uh, we didn't talk about this as one of your other hats you've worn for a long time is you do operate a, a CWMU in Northern Utah. So you do have, you know, you do guide and outfit hunts on that. Is that where you pick up to in the archery seasons when you get back from that? Or do you. Well, yeah. Yeah. We start with some archers and then move into some rifle and we do a deer elk and moose. Yeah. That's just been a fun thing for me. I haven't really done it any other reason than just have maybe kind of a place to personally

hunt and then, and then my boys, but also, uh, I've met some of the neatest people doing that over the last 18 to 20 years. You know, you meet people from all over the U S that come in and hunt with you and there's just some really good people that you now, they, they start out as clients and then they become lifelong friends. And I know Jason and, and Adam and your, your business, I know you can, you can relate to what I just said. So. Yeah. Yeah. That is every, every hunting season we come to, I don't know, as we get a little bit older now, we don't, I don't want to flounder one away. It's not like, you know, we're in one foot in the grave, but the same token, we're not getting any younger, not getting younger. And you want to, whether it's our own hunt or a kid's hunts, or you tag along with a good friend, family, or, or guide somebody, we want it to be not only where we would want

to hunt and the kind of animals are experienced, but, but yeah, with good people that, that, that we really, you know, fulfill, I guess, our time at field and I get it totally. So what else do you have? Anything else personally, or is that, did you kind of keep your schedule more, more open? I drew a whitetail tag up in Wyoming in November. And that's something that we've done the last 10 or 12 years, kind of a fun kind of wrap up the season type hunt. That'll be, that'll be fun. And then it'll just be out, you know, supporting my, my two sons and making sure they can have some good experiences out there in the hills, you know? Tell us, tell us, tell us a little bit as we wrap up here, just about one of your most memorable hunts, you know, something that really stands out. That's maybe a hunter too. Yeah.

You know, there was, there was one for me that was a game changer and, and I don't know if some of your listeners and you guys have had one of those that kind of, kind of changed your mindset a little bit and, and, and the way you thought about hunting and what you kind of had inside yourself. And that was my first sheep hunt back in 2003. I went on a doll sheep hunt to Arctic red river and it was something that I had saved for. So it was a, you know, I'm not a rich guy and these are things that I just kind of put some pennies away until it, until I got enough to go. And I went on this hunt back in 2003 and we didn't have a GPS, but when we bought back to base camp, we mapped out how far we went and I killed my sheep on day nine of a 10 day hunt and we estimated that we went about 75 miles. Backpacking. You're not talking to riding four wheelers. No, no, no.

Not getting airdrop pumpkin pie or anything. I mean, this is. Exactly. And just this year, I guess, you know, I kind of wrestled high school and college and that was pretty tough. Yeah. And other than that, when I went on that hunt, that was, that was something that kind of strung me out, if you will, in terms of just, uh, not just physically, but almost a little bit emotionally. And, you know, I mean, I was getting towards the end of my hunt. I was getting nervous. And by the way, I killed the 76th ram I saw. Jeez. So I saw a lot of sheep. We just weren't seeing old sheep and Arctic red really likes to kill 10 year, 10 year old rams. You know, we want to kill that top end, that old mature ram that's at the end of his, his breeding cycle. And, um, we just went a long way. We pushed right to the end. I mean, I lost 14 pounds on that hunt. You got, you know, you're eating mountain house.

You're probably taking in 2000 calories a day and burning 10. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, wore a pair of boots out and I wouldn't trade that hunt for anything. Cause it just, it really, number one, it did two things. One, it gave me a huge appreciation, uh, for extreme mountain hunting. And number two, I just, it hooked me on, on sheep hunting. And Adam knows that and how involved I've been with the sheep program. Yeah. I was going to say that, that's probably not too long after that you had, um, I guess just called the opportunity that came opening to serve within Utah for Oz. And I'm sure that experience probably played into that. Yeah. You bet. When you got asked, uh, to be a part of that, you did that. And as was mentioned earlier, I think it was maybe it was eight or nine years. I think you said seven, but I think you were there longer than that, buddy. You did a long time. Yeah.

I kind of lost track there. But, but having said that, that was your, that was your first and that got you in. And for most people that a sheep hunt can change you. I mean, obviously not, you can't just hunt sheep. Most of us every single year. Um, but it, it changes your mindset and it changes your goals and aspirations and stuff like that to want to do them again. And I know you, you've had a couple more, maybe briefly tell us, you know, that didn't, that wasn't your only sheep hunt. I know you, you went and did a stone sheep. I don't know how many years after that. Oh, seven. I, well, I get home Oh three. So Oh seven, four years later, uh, had an opportunity stone prices, as you know, we're starting to climb and go through the roof, uh, supply and demand on stone sheep hunting. I had an opportunity to go up to British Columbia and harvest a nice ram there, Kinniskin Lake.

And, uh, and then of course, you know, the ever, uh, the ever quest with a, well, the quest to kill a desert is a, you know, a 20 year process. And I actually ended up having 20 points and drew a Utah desert sheep tag and killed a really nice ram in 2014 and down in the, uh, design unit. And Adam, you were part of that and you helped and, and your dad and Aaron and Wayne. And there was a lot of people there and I sure appreciate it. It was even Adam's boy tie. That was, I remember that. That's right. Yeah. He had a football game. If I remember that day and had their dad and Wayne had their arm found that day and is moving in on the stock. And I was, I was kind of hoping don't kill this thing before I can get there. And, and, and we were literally walking, hiking into the Canyon. We'd left, we'd got done with his game, got down there and we're hiking into the Canyon,

uh, to watch it all unfold and heard, heard the gunshots. And so that was actually a special time for my boy. He was, I don't know, probably 10. I think he was about 10, nine or 10 at the time, but that was the first sheep hunt. He got to taste a little bit as far as walk up, put your hands on a dead Ram. And he still talks about that. That was pretty, pretty awesome. And design unit, you know, not all of it. Can you, you know, take a nine or 10 year old boy into, but that was a Canyon that Ford, you found a big Ram dad and Wayne that day and very deserving Ram for you. It was a 170 inch plus net Boone and Crockett Ram too. Yeah. Not a great Ram. You know what made that one so sweet? I think for me was because I had been involved with Utah Finaw's for up to that point, probably geez, 20 years.

You know, I remember going to the first fundraiser at Utah Finaw's and there was probably 150 people in the room. And now, you know, we get more like five, 600 and to watch that, that organization grow. But I've also had the ability or the opportunity to watch our sheep program in Utah flourish over those 20 years and watch this opportunity. And I mean, it was bittersweet for me to, to, to actually draw the tag and then go harvest one and know and see all of the effort by not just, uh, Utah Finaw's members, but the division of wildlife and their partnership and neighboring States like Nevada, where we got sheep from and get transplants and kind of the culmination of just all of that work. And then having that opportunity, as you know, I mean, they're to hunt sheep as a rare opportunity. And then, then to actually taste and experience it is, uh, it's truly, you know, a hunt of a lifetime.

And that, that was special for me though. Yeah. It really was. One thing to, just to point out, just you, you started applying obviously before you drew that 20 something years prior, that unit wasn't even open. Didn't even have a huntable sheep population. Had them in the park, but they hadn't yet expanded out of the park and kind of a blessing that you didn't maybe draw earlier in life. I know that's crazy to say that, but, uh, you, you were literally, you were, you and another, another Utah sheep enthusiast, Rick Ellison drew the same year, but you were literally the last three to draw with max points. Literally the three last ones that year. So you were the literally the most unlucky, unlucky guy in the state of Utah. You were, yeah, that's a way to look at it. You're the last three that they had to give a tag to, but then to notch your tag, not only

on a desert, but such a stud ram and do it the way you did it with the right people and whatnot. I mean, it, it's a blessing as well. Now you just need a big horn, buddy. Big horn. Yeah. Well, well said, Jason. I agree. Yeah. Well said. Well, it's awesome. We sure appreciate the time you spent with us, Ryan. I know, you know, I remember you back in those sportsman's warehouse days and, and, uh, you know, there's just not a lot of guys in the industry that have done as much as you've done with all the different species, moose, deer, elk, um, you know, you've experienced everything. Yeah. Of course, sheep, what we've been talking about, but you've experienced everything and you've done it on a wide variety of levels, you know, not just from a hunting perspective, but then also from the retail perspective and, and different companies you work with, you bring a wealth

of knowledge, you know, to our members here at Epic. And, and we just appreciate the partnership that you've, that you've given to Epic. And of course, you know, we want to be able to reciprocate and help you guys out as well. And we believe in your products and we believe in people. And that's probably the biggest thing here at Epic. As you know, is you develop relationships over the course of time and those relationships, uh, last for a long period of time. Um, you know, and that's what we like about dealing with you guys is, is of course you've got to have good products, but there's something to be said for being partners with good people. Well, we're, we're excited to be, be partner, the partnership we have with Epic and congratulations to you and your team there on, uh, I know, I know your launch was like what December, January

and, and the early success that you've had, I know it's, uh, probably been a little mind blowing. I mean, you know, we're, we're, we're just excited and proud to be part of your success in what you've done and, and hopefully, uh, you know, expose our, our products to, uh, to your customers as well. Absolutely. And we, we look forward to a long, healthy relationship because you're right in this business, in the hunting side, it's all about relationships. It truly is. Yeah. And, uh, we see it every day. So. Yeah, there's no question. Yeah, there's no question. And so it has been, it has been somewhat humbling for us. Of course, you know, um, Adam and John and I and Chris and, and Jeff and a few of the other guys here, uh, you know, we're not going anywhere and that's, what's been nice. I mean, you're always kind of nervous.

You're jumping out and, and hoping that, uh, that it catches on and that people support you and whatnot. And, and it's just been mind blowing. So yeah, we're, we're going to be here for many, many years to come. So very appreciative of all that support. You guys have been a big part of that. And not that we doubt it, that would be the case, but great to deal with companies like yourself and people like yourself, Ryan. So thanks for your time. Thanks guys. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for your partnership and friendship. Yeah. Good luck. Good luck across the pond. Yeah. Stay safe over there and we'll look forward to seeing some pictures in a couple of weeks. We'll make sure you get, you get some, some level of success photo. How's that? That's right. All right, Ryan. Sounds great, buddy. All right. Thanks guys. Thanks. Appreciate it. You bet. Talk to you later.

Here at Epic Outdoors, we produce a hunting magazine, nine issues a year. The first six issues are state by state research driven issues, breaking down the states, the drying odds, kill percentages, best places to go, whatever your goals are for that state, whether you should even apply for that state or not. Coming from January through June, we break those down. The rest of the year we go every other month. So very informative magazine, $100 a year to get you that magazine as well as the ability to call and consult with us consultants, develop a strategy, bounce ideas off us, things like that. Yeah. So, so with this magazine, you know, it just covers Western big game hunting. That's what we specialize in. That's what we stick to. So the Western states, Canada, Alaska, Mexico from a big game hunting perspective.

So a hundred bucks a year and, and it should be everything to do with Western big game hunting.