EP 374: Q&A Part 1, Devin Archibald's New Mexico Oryx and A Few Epic Misses

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson coming at you from Southern Utah. Of course, we've got the rest of the guys in here too today. Wyatt, it's nice to see you in here. Yeah, it's good to have a little bit of a break. Yeah. Taking phone calls. Yeah, it's nice to have you in here. Devin, nice to have you in here, guy. Good to be here. Yeah, got you out of the field, strapped to a desk. Here we go. We're here. We're up for another year. Cash? What's up? You're even here. I'm here. Geez. Break from phone calls, same as Wyatt. Yeah. It's good. Been a flurry. Yeah. A couple days before New Year. Wyatt, you let him out of his desk? He cut me loose. I don't have much saying what anyone does around here. All right. I left the gate unlocked. Yeah. Yeah. Logan, welcome. What's up? Glad to have you here, too. Geez, man. It feels a little weird, Bronson.

We've got a full house just sitting in here. Here we go. Another round of application season. Everybody's done hunting. That's right. Except for predators and whatever else we all work around doing in the wintertime. Well, as we get started, I guess, let's just, I don't know. Hey, kudos to Epic Outdoors for sponsoring this podcast. How about that? We're back. Title sponsor, Epic Outdoors. We're your everything for Western big game. If you need help applying, we can do that. If you want us to apply for you, we can do that. If you need landowner tags, guns, Devin, we're kind of into the gun thing. We've been putting some together. We've got some shooting to do in the near future. It's pretty awesome. So, yeah, if you're looking for a gun, set up, shot out the door with a rangefinder, a whole system.

We had guys, what, shooting almost 1,200 yards the day after we got done messing with the rifle. I wouldn't say messing with the rifle. It gave us some confidence, didn't it? Yeah, it felt good. We knew what we were doing. Yeah. So, anyway, dude, we've been doing this a long time. Yeah. So, kind of fun. Or if you need landowner tags or booking guided hunts or whatever you need, call us here at Epic Outdoors, 435-263-0777. Or you can email Devin, right? Yep. And don't wait. All your needs. Don't wait. Don't wait. Don't wait. What do you mean by that? Things are filling up fast this year. Doesn't it feel weird? It feels, like, interesting. It feels like money's prevalent, right? Or at least people are willing to spend it. Yep. Doesn't it? Yeah. It's a lot of demand. There's a lot of demand for everything alive, it feels like. So, yeah, like I said, don't wait.

What are you seeing in your department, Wyatt? How are things looking? Things are looking good. Just going through renewals right now. Talking to all our LifeSap guys. Planning out this future year. Talking to a bunch of new guys. Joining the service. Having us take over their application portfolios for them. That's good. Yeah. It's been good. It's awesome. I believe you've got a little giveaway going on right now, right? If they get in before the end of the year. Pretty quick. Yeah. Pretty quick. For our LifeSap guys, if they join before the end of the year or renew before the end of the year, they're going to get entered to win its fierce rifle or a pair of NLP binoculars. Or 10s or 12s, right? Or 8s. If they want 8s. Yeah. Hey, if they want 8s, we'd charge them a little extra. 8s are amazing. You guys laugh. I've got now that 8s. I've got NL 8s and EL 8s.

Hey, EL ranges, they're no joke. Yeah. I don't know what it is. Okay. Well, that's going to be a good topic of discussion here in a minute. I've seen more games than I've ever seen. I don't know. And, hey, you know, them SIGs stabilized are no joke, too. A guy can take one of them if you want. They're worth about half. But, you know, whatever. Do whatever. All right. Moving right along. So, what are we going to do, Bronson? We're working on the next publication. We got one at the printer. It should be in their mailbox any day. Yeah. Your EMAG has been live for over two weeks. As far as the January EMAG goes, it outlines most everything for Wyoming, moose sheep, goat, bison, and elk, at least. As well as Arizona elk and antelope. And things will open up here next week for Wyoming, at least. So, Arizona is always kind of just to wait and see it goes live whenever they go live.

But, anyway, that's probably more like a second or so week into January, it seems like, usually. But, anyway, yeah. That's a short. Here we go again. It's like a three-week win for Arizona. Oh, yeah. Sometimes it makes it tough because, yeah, it goes live the 10th or 15th, and it's due the first couple days in February. Yeah. February 3rd. So, yeah, that's on the front burner. It's time to start planning. It's hard to believe, but it comes here quick. And, yeah, that's pretty much what we're in the desk like you guys joked around saying. We're in the saddle. We're in the stirrups, you know, from here until June. You know, nobody's unlocking the gate after today. Let's put it that way. Well, let's – maybe should we start off with a story, Devin? Maybe a hunting story? Devin, you have one. I have a quick – Why don't you do it? It's a quick – But it's awesome. It was a smash and grab, but –

But it's – On a hunt, it should not be a smash and grab either. I haven't had a smash and grab in quite some time, it feels like. It does feel good, doesn't it? That was probably the greatest smash and grab of my life. Yeah. Yes. Let's hear it. Providing for the family, too. Meat for everyone. I felt like a long-haul trucker slash butcher for about four days. Take it away, Devin. What did we do? Well, I drew New Mexico Oryx, off-range Oryx, way back in whenever. A year ago. And I chose December of all months, and that's what I got, which – Probably one of your three choices. It was one of my three, but, like, man, December's kind of busy, you know? That's what we were thinking. Yeah. Well, Devin, when you got some free time? I wondered why you gave me that look. Like, really? December? But, yeah, so it's – I mean, we finished the January mag, what the – John, what was that?

The 15th, something like that? 15th, yeah. And I think I left the 18th. Long drive. Yeah. That's really not much of a story. I mean – Cross the res. Literally, long drive. You guys called me when I was driving. Yeah. That was a podcast or two ago. No, this is good. This is a sequel to that. Yeah. One or two podcasts. I'm back. I made it. I don't know how many. That's been – Two, I think. What podcast number are we on?

378? I told somebody 400 and something. I don't know. We're getting there. I lose track. All right. So, anyway, we're here. Anyways, get down there, long drive. Wake up first morning. We was with a couple friends. A guy had seen one. He was working out there and saw a bull. And so, we went and checked that. It's a little different than people being on range like Bronson. You know because you did it. And there's – NASCAR, boogity-boogity-boogity. But a lot of orcs, too. Let's go racing. Through the game. I heard that's like an adult version of an Easter egg hunt. Like everybody breaks at the same time. It's like go-kart. Like a little go-kart trap. Yeah. It's a little different. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. Well, I was hunting them where they're not supposed to be. But there's more game. More plumber. Oh, they're everywhere.

And, yeah, you're spookier than heck because they get shot at every 28 days or whatever on roads and stallion. I mean, well, every other month sometimes. Is that the one you hunt? Roads. Yeah. Well, that's what I heard. They'll usually alternate. They just – They get ping-ponged around. They'll see you from – Yeah. They'll see you and they're gone. You know what I mean? So, I'm – You're kind of – You had things down. Like you had – You're hunting them where they're not, though. You had the epic tripod, everything ready. Yeah. Before we left in the dark, I had that thing extended because that's what I had heard is they're just spooky. Get out. Or you might get out and track one for four miles and you're probably not going to lay down to shoot because it's flat as a pan. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyways, yeah, we first morning went out, checked the spot and didn't see – I mean, nothing.

We saw some deer and that was about it. And then, I mean, dude, we're only like two hours in. What time was it when you texted me, Wyatt? Like 9 o'clock in the morning? Yeah, 9 in the morning. It was pretty early. I read Wyatt's text. What did he say? He said, did you kill one yet? And I didn't – We need you back here. I didn't even respond. We need you back here in the office. What? Wyatt cracks the whip like that a little. It was 9 a.m. First day. And I don't know. And we actually saw some, like – I didn't know they did this, but they – like stud piles. Yeah. Mike – bear claws with Mike. And he says, there's a bull in here somewhere. And I'm like – I mean, everything looks the same. Like, why would you say that? How do you know? Yeah. He backs up and there's a stud pile in the middle of the road. And I'm looking. I'm like, it looks about – Just like a horse. Yeah, just like a horse.

You're eating a horse. They look like a horse. I mean – Horses are like a horse. Horses are like a horse. Of course. Yeah. So, I look at him like, oh, it looks like, I don't know, a couple days old. You know what I mean? You never know. But not even – I don't know. Three, four, five minutes later, we're bebopping down this road. And I just look out, and this big old oryx is standing in the mesquite. Crease. Is it called? Crease soap. Crease soap. Crease soap. Bushes. Pokey stuff. Is there any trees? Really? No. Just brush. Elephant bushes. Just contour, man. Like, we could have drove – you could drive by him. Easy. I mean, there's just – he was at the bottom of a wash, almost the very bottom. Kind of in thick, and I think he may have thought, like, they can't see me. I'm hidden right here. Yeah.

And I saw him with my eyes, and I threw up the vinyls for about – it may not have been a half a second. Look, I'm shooting him. I'm shooting him. Yeah, like, he's fully intact. He looked – I mean, it's the first orcs I've ever seen. And he's got – I don't know what – He's got two horns. He has two horns. They're not broke. Not forking. Problem. This is the first orcs you've seen. First orcs I've ever seen. And you smashed it, and it's a giant. And you smashed it, and it's a bull, because he's alone. If it was a cow, I would have killed it anyways. Whatever. Yeah. Anyways, yeah. Jump out. What about a juvenile? Would you show a juvenile? No. No. He told me, he says, we don't shoot juvies here. Really? Yeah. Oh, okay. Like, let's not kill a juvie. I was like, I'm with you. I don't want to kill a calf, whatever. Yeah. But, yeah, it was fast. I jumped out.

Luckily, the tripod, I had it extended, but it was in the back seat, so I had to get out, open the door. Did you extend all three legs, or just a couple of them? All of them. I don't know. And so, as I'm doing that, I'm kind of watching him, because I'm just waiting for him to just take off. Bomb. You know what I mean? He's probably, I don't even think he's 200 yards. He might have been 200 at most, I would guess. I'd be nervous the whole time that he's going to take off. Oh, the whole time. So, as I'm getting the tripod legs out, I'm just watching him, and then I'm telling myself, like, smooth, just go smooth is fast, right? And I pop that rifle in the, just right on the tripod head, and just, yeah. Put the crosshairs. Was he facing you? He's broadside, so he actually had taken, like, four steps. This is a gun that you have an Arca Swiss embedded into the stock. Yes, it is awesome.

Pop it right in, quick release clamp, it's locked in. I'm good to go. I tighten it. And as I did that, as I tightened it, he took about four steps and stopped again. And I just put the crosshairs right where you'd kill like a deer and elk, and everybody said shoot him square in the shoulder. So, I just moved it forward, bang, it went off. This is a 7 PRC with Acubons. 160 Acubons. 160 Acubons. And, dude, I whopped him. Like, I heard it hit him. You know, you could tell he was hit, and he took off like nothing happened. I mean, wheeling hard. Like, when they run, they look, it's, it's. They're like the black stallion. Yeah, it's different. So, anyways, I put another one in him. And, actually, I was going to shoot a third time because I heard they're just tougher than tough. And. I thought you have four bullets. I have three. And I couldn't. That you recovered from high.

I couldn't get the third one in the gun. What? I think it had scooted too far back in the bag box. And I'm over there. Was it going over the top? Yeah. Your bolt was going over the top? It was going over the top. I think it had, I had, when I popped him in, I put him too far back. But, anyways, yeah, that was. You want to sell that gun? No. I think it was user error. Oh. I was looking at it, and I was like, yeah, that was. Adrenaline. Yeah. And I was, I was belt feeding, but it wasn't feeding. I mean, I was working the bull. I could have shot him a third time when he was running, but he kind of, he kind of went down into the bottom of the wash, and I saw some bushes move. I'm like, oh, he went down right there. You know, like it's. So, I run over, and I'm probably only 50, 60 yards, and I could see his horns. And he's just, he had laid down. But they're upright. They're not. He's looking.

Yeah, he's looking. And didn't know exactly where I was, but kind of was just looking around. And I'm like, well, we'll give him a second. Because I knew I'd hit him good, and couldn't get another angle. And I thought, well, I'm just going to walk up and finish him here so he's not suffering. And I get, I don't know, 20 yards, and he jumps up and took off like nothing had happened again. I shot him two more times. Western freehand. I haven't shot something freehand in a long time. I hate doing it. Back to the child. I hate doing it. I love it if you're 20 or 30. You definitely missed that first one. You know what I mean? He said you missed the first after he jumped up the second time. He's like, you airballed that second one. I'm like, I don't think so, man. Because I said, I know the second shot, the fourth shot really hit him good because he went right down.

But we pulled four pieces of lead out of him. And they're all intact, right? Yeah, I should have brought them. They're pretty cool. He had a, caped him out. He had a tip of another horn. I was caping it. It sounded like my knife was hitting like a carbon arrow. And I couldn't figure it out because it was just right, that first cut, you know, on the base. Between the two horns? Between the two horns. I'm like, what is this? Is it part of his horn, like going down? They got a skull? Potrusion that I don't know about? Yeah, I mean, I've never caped one. And I worked on that forever, and it was actually a tip of another horn. How long? Where they got in a fight? It's like an inch and a half, probably. They got in a fight and he jammed him in his skull. Oh, yeah. He had a huge scar above his eye. He's got, when I was taking pictures with him, I was counting. I counted five going down his neck.

Puncture scar. Or like, yeah. Whoa. Big one on his other side that gets nasty. Well, that, I mean. You were deadly. I mean, you did him wrong. We would be toast. It was kind of, but yeah, he was a big one. I mean, I couldn't believe it. I walked up on him. Yeah, he's almost eight inch base, seven and something. Over seven and a half inch. 37 to 40 inch. 37 and 36. Oh, 37 and 36. Yeah, it was cool. They're super cool animals. They are. That's a good way to finish a two hour, three hour hunt. Finish your year off. Before I dropped into the wash, I text Wyatt and was like, yes, killed him. You know, and then I lost service down there and yeah, we were out of there by noon. And I mean, everybody says that meat's so good. So I got it cooled down and I woke up the next morning and drove home. I drove 1,600 something miles in 72 hours. Gee. Does it beat antelope meat? It's pretty good. I have.

I mean, I've had one steak really, one backstrap. Was that with lunch the other day? Is that the one? Yeah. Because you said, I'm going to go home and have what was. You haven't had any since? No. Literally, yeah. It was fun. It was cool to hunt something different. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was so fast. You just felt like it didn't even happen really. But you take them. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it was fun. Worked out. All right. Pretty awesome. It is. Good way to finish the year.

Yeah. It was fun. It was cool animals.

Well. Okay. Well, moving right along. We all opened up here a couple weeks ago. Logan, I guess it was. On social media, whatever. Send us your Q&A stuff. We've done this in the past. So we had a bunch of people send in questions to us. So let's fire away through some of those. Got a good round table here of y'all. So let's do it. First off, Paul says, Swarovski EL range. Best power for overall use. Jason's already said eights are tough to beat. Well, I mean, if I had one pair, what would you buy? That's the question. What would you buy? EL range. One overall. I know what I would say. I know what Wyatt did. Wyatt still has both the 10s and the 12s. And he's going back and forth trying to make a decision. But he's leaning hard towards the 12s. That's what I was going to say. I thought for some reason, you did a hunter too with the 12s. And you were like, they are no joke. Yeah.

I just like that. Can you handhold them? Are you fine? You can. They're like the NL Pure 12s. Just like the NL Pure. It's just the field of views bothering you. Like it's a little honed in. Yeah, it's a little honed in. I mean, that's the biggest thing. That's one reason I would probably say. Probably a more tight field of view. But I like the magnification 12s. And throwing them on a tripod, it's hard to beat. Then you're not packing the 14s or 15s or whatever. Yeah, it eliminates packing another pair of binoculars like I've always done for the most part. Which is what I'm still doing. I think the kicker for me is if you bow hunt a lot. And so whatever this Paul guy's term for overall use is. If you bow hunt, I wouldn't want them on my chest for bow hunting. I'd want 10s. I wouldn't want 12s if I'm bow hunting. That's what I think. So that would put me over the edge.

If you bow hunt a lot or half the time or more, I would go with 10s. I wouldn't go with 12s. But I'm telling you, if you're bow hunting, like honestly, I'd take the 8s if you're bow hunting. Yeah, if you had that on. But you cannot tell the power difference. Like I've handed them to people and they almost like, they don't want to be seen with them. But to me. They're like, and I'm like, no, go ahead and look through them. And they're like, holy crap. You can hardly tell anything. But anyway. That's the biggest probably factor for me. 10s. I agree with you. If you buy one. If you bow hunt too much, spot and stock deer, call an elk, you don't want 12 power. But you kind of want them all. And that's why, Wyatt, you still have them both. Like you kind of want them all because like you were on some of your stuff, like your backpacking and your weight is an issue.

And you don't want to pack two pair of items. Exactly. That's why I went with the 12s because I didn't want to have, I typically have a pair of 10s. And then in my backpack, I have my 14s. Yes. You know, go back and forth between the two if I'm set up on a tripod. These 12s were kind of a happy median to where I could still hand hold them and glass good enough. But they were enough power to where I could really do damage, you know, long-range glassing. Is it important to have the right profile picked when you're using an easy ray? It is. It is very, very important to have the right profile. Man, that might. Well, let's just. Is there a question associated with that? Maybe we'll just jump ahead a few questions and see if that comes into play. Okay. Okay. So, this gentleman, which I think Wyatt knows quite well. Oh, this is going to be fun. Wyatt, pull the gloves off of this. S. Wilson, 89.

What did Wyatt kill this year? Where did he hunt? And did he miss any animals? Oh, gosh. Well, I missed actually less than. Well, the answer, I guess, is yes, I did kill a reindeer at the start of the season. Okay. Okay. There you go. I do have a kill to my credit in 2025. But I think his main question is the third part. Yeah. So, I had a few different good tags out west. You know, I had Colorado. I had Wyoming. So, I mean, I hunted a few stakes. Okay. That's the second question. Did I miss any animals? The answer is yes, I did, but two less times than seven. Oh, I like it. I like it. That's what I wanted to hear. So, less shots fired on my end. Yeah. So, let's. These guys, I didn't know the story. We should actually call him. We could call him. I didn't know the story. Because I don't think he has a kill to his name. Whoa. Let's ask him.

Was one of them due to a profile, mistaken gun in a profile? These guys, I didn't know the story. Yeah, I didn't know. Yes. Was it? So, I wouldn't say 100% due to that. I mean, but that was a contributing factor. Yeah. To me missing a box. Well, I mean, if it's at 200 yards, it doesn't matter what profile you shoot. Yeah. You should kill the animal. It was over seven. Oh, yeah. That totally matters. Totally plays a factor. And I did. Profiles matter. Yeah. I stopped and shot both my rifles. I'd never shot them with a suppressor. So, I stopped and shot both my rifles. My 6.5 PRC and my 7 mag. Yeah, you spent time. Suppressed. At the range, right? Yeah. Shot them out to 900 yards. Everything was golden, good. You know, left one gun there and headed up to Wyoming to hunt deer with my 7 mag. And had the buck come out. Was working his way up a ridge. Got a shot at him.

Thought everything felt good. Shot a couple more times, which equates to three shots. So, three. Three. I'm not prying anything out of you. Just keep talking. We're not counting. And I just, I couldn't figure it out. Walked over there. Spent a couple hours walking up and down the ridge trying to figure out if I'd hit him. What had happened exactly. Because it's kind of tough when you're the only guy looking by yourself. You don't have a spot. So, I don't know where I was hitting him. Especially if you can't review the video, you know. For sure. And I'm just trying to get to the exact same spot. I'm pretty sure I'm there. I'm range finding back to the other hill. And that's when it dawns on me. Like, I better check my ballistic profile here. Yeah. And sure enough, I hadn't switched from rifle two back to rifle one. You know, I thought about you the other day. Because I did that.

Because I thought about you. And when I went to New Mexico, I went in there. And on my binos, I wish you could, if Swarovski would fix this. On the app, if you could name it. Because it said gun one. Then I had to look at the app. And I was like. The Sig 8K, you can name it. Yeah. You name the gun. It's right there. So, I had to look in the app. Make sure. Triple check. That it was number one. Not number two. And yeah, I thought about you. And I was like. Okay, it's number one. But it's. Yeah, it's kind of confusing. Gun one, gun two. I mean. Yeah. Well, it is confusing. What's hard is when you go. Like, if you go hunting with one of your kids. And they've got a gun. You've got a gun. And you both can shoot. You've both got tags. Which one do you have loaded first? And who's going to shoot? Like, I've had that happen. And you know what I had to end up doing? Just buy another range finder.

Like, that's never going to happen again. Yeah. Like that. You keep the range finder next door. I'm not. You know. Because. You know. But when you're a kid. You're supposed to let your kids. You know. Have an opportunity to maybe shoot first. But. Sometimes that's not. Let's. Let's let Seth defend himself. Go on. He's under the bus currently. I mean. He's been thrown. I just want to know more. What?

Yeah. What? Jason. Take it over. Swilson's story probably got a little bit more Western than mine, too. So. We'll see. Do you want to lead out. Contributing factors. This. Good conversation. Check in. No. He's not going to know. And maybe. Brownson. You start off with a question. Reverse it. He's in your phone.

Hello. Swilz. What are you doing? Oh. Just here on the podcast. It looks like you had a question for me. So.

We love the questions. But there's more to it. Wyatt's kind of throwing you under the bus. Wyatt's taking charge of this pod. He's. He's taking charge of this podcast. So. Wyatt. Time is yours. Where do you like to go? The only answer I could come up with, Seth, is I missed less times than you.

Whoa. I don't like to be outdone, Wyatt. So I just had to one up you. I was like.

And I told him your story is probably a little bit more Western, too. So these guys want to hear it.

Wyatt talked about. He was. He was dialing for a 6.5 when he was shooting a 7. We already heard that story. But. How good did yours go? Okay. So. The story went. We rolled up on a glass of knob. First thing in the morning. This was. And next. The day after mine. Right. Or the same day. Yes. The day after. No. The day. The day after. Yeah. The day after yours. Yep. And so. Me and my dad roll up on a glass of knob. We're not seeing anything. All of a sudden. Next thing you know. I've got a bedded buck. Just behind a jack pine. And I'm like. Hey, dad. There's a buck. Are you interested? And he's like. Oh, how wide is it? Because my dad's old school. He just wants to go off the whip. How wide is it? 30 and a quarter.

He's a spike bite too. But I want him. Exactly. So. Next thing you know. I'm like. God. He doesn't look like he's all but 20. 26 wide. I can only see one side. But he's just barely out past his. His ear. And he's like. Oh, I'm not interested. Okay. Sounds good. Well, now an hour and a half has gone by. And we've only seen a handful of does. And so. I'm like. Hey. What do you think? And he's like. Oh, no. I'm not that interested. And all of a sudden. I'm like. Hey. That buck turned his head. He's got to be 27. 28. And that's all you have to say to my dad. Is if it's close to 27. 28. He's now. He's fully engaged. Is that square? Did I acknowledge it? He didn't want 26. 27. He wanted 27. 28. So. He's like. I'm. Hey. I'm interested in that buck. I'm like. All right. Sounds good. I'll stay here. And see if I can't get you in a little closer to him. And we're at seven. I think 730.

And he's like. I'm going to see if I can get down there to 500. Which is very doable. And I'm like. Okay. Sounds good. Well, next thing you know. We're kind of on a little bit of a plateau. And he heads across there. And he's walking across the Doritos. And all of a sudden. I'm like. Hey, dad. The gig's up. That buck's up and moving away from you. He heard you coming. And I says. There's more to the story. He says. What's that? And I says. Well, he's got about an eight to ten inch flyer. Out that right side. That splits. And he's got a crown on that left side. He's got to be 33. And my dad. He's losing. He lost it. He lost it. This is an old. This is a buck for playback. Yeah. He's not. He's not very vocal. But he just. He comes back across the range. Well, if you get a chance. Just shoot that son of a gun. I was like. Well, no kidding. I'm going to shoot it.

He's now running away from us. Oh. And so by this time. I think my closest yardage is 850. And this buck's just zigging and zagging up the hill. And he's not running. But he's not stopped by any means. And I'm just educating this thing like a coyote. Because he's heading up the ridge. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I got a couple shots off there. I think I've got four off on him. And I mean. I just. It was not pretty. But it was a good time. And added to our excitement that day. Yeah. So even though you've got more lead in the air. It wasn't the same as Wyatt's. Wyatt was wearing the wheelhouse yardage. And they were. And he was standing. Standing. Just don't think we're done yet. Oh. Oh.

Like I said, Wyatt. Just take it over. Keep going. Swills.

Hey. That's about. Well. I mean. That's all I have to ask.

Wyatt. Go ahead. Another day. Tell him. Tell him what he's thinking. Come on. Swills.

I can't read your mind from this one here, Wyatt. But go ahead. Okay. Give me a tip. Okay. So now we cross over. You're on the same ridge as the deer. Oh. Yes. Yes. Oh. He's going to say this. Oh. Yeah. I thought we could end it right there. Wyatt has a. Wyatt has a memory. That's what I was going to say. You got to know how good his memory is. Wyatt's an elephant. I didn't know how much of this we could go public with. But I guess we could go forward with it. We're going public. Well, I need to get the additional two misses to make my story true.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So the buck is now. I guess time's passed. I'm still a little uneasy. Because, I mean. Not that I'm. It's a big deer. Yeah. It's now a big deer. Like, I mean. The deer's probably on like. Oh. At least 180. 185 inch frame. Eight inch flyer out. It's right side. The splits. Crown. Tripod on the back left. We're talking a 195. Two. Or better deer. Yeah. Like. Yeah. Legit. Legit good. Big deer. Yeah. 33 inches wide. We're thinking now with that flyer out that right side. Mass like your forearms. Triple eye guards. What else we got? Purling. Purling around the bases. We don't know. We didn't get to put our hands on him. Okay. So next thing you know. We're in a day. And it's kind of got a lull to it. And I'm like. Hey. I haven't seen that buck come back out of them pines right there. And I know everything that walked in there. And I'm like. Hey dad. If you don't mind.

I'll just. I'm going to head up there. And by then. We got wide around to the top of the ridge. And my dad's at the bottom. And we can. Kind of got this deer surrounded. And we're like. Hey. We're in good shape. We're going to get this deer. Yep. Yeah. We're going to kill this buck. And. So little time's passed. And I hike down the ridge. And back up it. Now we're probably two hours after I've missed him. And I get to the top. And I. I dial my gun down. I've got a breath. I mean. I've had a drink of water. And my dad just says. Hey. Go over there. Calm and easy. And just sneak through there. And I'm like. Okay. Sounds good. So I get to the top of the ridge. And I'm starting to look in there. And it's kind of thick. And I'm looking. And just taking a step. And I mean. I'm still hunting as good as I can do. I'm pretty impatient. Because my blood was boiling.

Because I just missed a big buck. And next thing you know. I'm coming along there. And all of a sudden. I jump a doe. I'm like. Okay. There was a doe that came in here. A little buck. A little four point. And him. So there should be four deer. Next thing you know. I jump a two point. I'm like. Okay. Sounds good. And. Next thing you know. I come along. I've jumped a four point. So now I've jumped three out of the four deer in there. And I'm like. Why haven't I jumped him? And I've taken 15 steps now. And I'm not moving very fast at all. And I'm just like. Now I'm kind of let my mind relax. Just enough. That I. I mean. I wasn't. Not that I was stepping cocky. But I just took a step without being cautious. And I was like. Hey. Maybe I did hit that deer. And I look up there to where I last shot him. Now that's only 75 yards away. And as I take a step. I flip and jump this big buck.

And I mean. Like. When you jump a pheasant. And he's underneath your toes. That is now what has just happened. And I am like. Oh my gosh. And I pull up my scope. And I take one shot. And I'm like. Boom. I don't even know where I was. I just seen fur. And I pulled the trigger. Okay. Don't dump the forky. Well. Everything else was gone out of the country. Except for the big deer. And next thing. I take another shot. Boo. And. I mean. This is kind of a little bit. I mean. It was close combat. But it. It was so close. I have no idea. Anyway. I spent an hour in there. We. I didn't even graze hair. I didn't graze blood. Nothing. And I had. I think five shots off on this bucket. But as we hope. He's still walking today. Maybe somebody else got in there. And got him. But. Can we sell you a new rifle?

Jeez. So frustrating. Jeez. So Wyatt. Did you see the buck come out? Did you? No. You were. No. It went further up the ridge. Not up towards me. It went the other way. Oh. Okay. So. Yeah. So it crawled around the ridge. And it went down towards my dad a little bit. But back over into the live pines. And. Yeah. That buck knew exactly what it was doing. And it. It was not going to be out in the open and exposed. He kind of wrapped around. Away from where Wyatt was. And where my dad was. And I mean. My dad could have seen him at about a. I mean. A 50 yard window. But. The shot was just delayed. Enough. He was a thousand yards away. And he didn't even know that. Anything was happening. Until it was too late. And two shots went off. Jeez. He got smart quick. We spent a lot of time in there. Never saw him again. Days after. And we couldn't turn him up again. Yeah. No. Yeah. Never could.

That deer's alive and well. Yeah. Hopefully. Well in fact. The funny story is. Monday. So I guess two days ago. My dad called me. And he's had a buddy at work. That was up on the winter range. And he was. The. His friend was showing him. A buck with flyers. And he's like. How big was that flyer? And I'm like. Man. Eight to ten inches. That split. And. Did it go up or down? And next thing you know. I think my dad's at work today. I said. Hey. See if you can't get a picture of that buck. We think he is alive and well. On the winter range. If. If the buck. If we get a picture of him today. So the way he was describing it. It might be him. How far away. I mean. Are you figuring summer to winter? No.

40 miles. As the. I don't recall. As the crow flies. No. This deer's got to be closer to 90. What? Whoa. Yes. Yeah. He's dropped down quite a ways. Crazy. And anything. Yeah. They just travel a long ways. So he was up pretty high when we. Wyatt and I were chasing him around. So it was pretty cool. So to finish it out. Your dad did kill. Right? He did end up getting a buck. Nice buck. Yep. Yep. So. It would have been about two days later. We're in that same country. Trying to turn up the deer that I missed. Um. And there was a couple nice deer running around. And I'm like. Hey dad. There's that nice buck up there. And this. I'll throw my dad underneath the bus. But my dad's a killer. Like I mean. If it comes to high pressure situation. I give him a lot of flack. But. He can get it done. He can get it done. He's got a nice wall. And uh. Yeah. He's done pretty well for himself. Anyway. Uh.

Find this deer. And it kind of the same situation. Hey dad. There's that buck. Well. I'm not going to try and take that long poke again. At 800 yards. Like you did. And he says. I'm going to sneak over there. And uh. See if I can't get a shot at him. I'm like. Hey. We got nothing but time. So he crawls over there. And we're just thinking. This is a nice 175 inch deer. And uh. Next thing you know. He gets up there. Just a beautiful four point. We've got a lot of video. Of it from. Previous week of hunting. And uh. My dad can't find it. And he literally is almost. Really close to where I. Jumped the deer. Right underneath me. And uh. I said dad. It's right there. 190 yards from you. And uh. He finally. I hear a delayed shot. And my dad just. I mean. It's old seven mag. He just mowed that thing down. One shot. Put it in the bottom of the drainage. And Dwight and I went over there.

And tracked it down. And it was. Dead right there. But a really cool buck. And my dad gets over there too. And he says. This tells you how spoiled he is. Not that he's killed a lot of giants in his day. But he looks at me and why. And he's like. Oh. I'll probably just European mount that deer. And I looked at him. And I said. Your guide fee has just gone.

If push comes to shove. Anyway. The deer has. 23 inch beams. 18 inch twos. 10 all the way around. 4 inch eye guards. Just shy of 40 inches of mass. 185 inch deer. Beautiful. Beautiful buck. And you guys have. Shared it for. On your Instagram story. It is. It was a fun. Fun hunt. Yeah. That's awesome. That's pretty. Pretty cool. Wyatt. Do you have any other insight. That needs. To come out. All the I's been dotted. The T's crossed on that. Yeah. I think we covered Wyoming. I mean. I could bring up a lot of stuff. From our history. But we'll stay with Wyoming. Seth. You got anything else. That we need to know about Wyatt. Oh. I guess. If Wyatt will call it a truce on this one. We'll just call it a truce. Okay. Yeah. Because you're not going to. You're not going to win. Back off Wyatt. Back off. If you bring something up. He's going to beat you. Promise. He's got something good. All right.

All right. Thanks for taking our call. Thanks Seth. Have a good one. Pretty awesome. Good luck. Happy New Year. Yep. Thank you. You'll see. You'll see. That's brave Wyatt. Getting your friends on. With a hot mic. Just as he's in and out of the truck. At job sites. Or whatever he's doing. Checking gas. Yeah. Checking gas. Up there in Wyoming. Yeah. All right. Well. All right. Let's go down this list. Fire away. This is. I love these stories. Kind of fun. Oh yeah. Makes me want to go. Like right now. I was just thinking that. Me too. Jeez. All right. Here's one from Doug. This is. This is maybe serious. But maybe just fun one. But. As a member of Epic Outdoors. How often do you have to call. Before you guys say. Not this guy again. LOL. Well.

Well. I mean. Guys go in spurts. Right. We have friends. And clients. That. When they call in. We see what business they're calling from. We're like. Oh. This one's Adams.

It's a fun. It takes a lot. I don't know. How to answer that one. But there's. We have a lot of friends. That are good clients. I guess I will add this. This one does at times get frustrating. And hey. You can call here as many times as you want. But there's been times. Where we've been called. Three times the same day. By the same individual. With the same question. They'll call me once. Then Wyatt. Then Devin or Jason. Whatever. And it's the same exact question. And that gets a little frustrating. Just because we are really busy. During the application time of year. And they're just seeing. They're not saying. They don't tell you. We go to lunch. I can't hear Devin or something. We go to lunch. And find out this later. Then I'll be like. Hey. I just talked to Wyatt. I'd like your opinion too. That's a different thing. He said. He said you maybe hunted there. He hadn't.

That's a different follow up question. Than a. Than a. Just. Hey. Six points. Colorado. Where. When. Why. Okay. It's true. So. And Devin will be like. He asked me the same thing. And I'll be like. What. You know. Anyway. Not. I get it though. Like. They just want a different perspective. And they're excited about it. And they want to. Maybe there's something. That we could add. But I mean. Three times in a day. On the sly. I don't know what we call that. Look. The left hand is talking to the right. Here. At Epic. So. We're visiting. John. Were you going to say something? No. No. Okay. Cash. Anything dad? No. I'm good. He's played fifth. Logan's dead quiet. I'll be brave. Got like church mice in here. I'll throw one out there. I'll be brave. Speak up. Speak your mind. If you ask me for Kansas Outfitters. For seven years in a row. And you now have eight points. And.

You know everything that I know. You've given them the same. Six, seven years. Outfitters. Or. Yeah. Three or four years. For seven years. Yeah. Yeah. You know. One of these times. It gets a little frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. They just haven't made it. Final decision. Pulled. Pulled the trigger on it. Okay. I guess that's all we're going. Anybody else anything down? Are we moving along? Okay. This is for Jason M. Carter. Come on. What's the biggest spuck Jason let get away this year? Oh. I don't know. Wyatt. Are you going to throw me under the bus here? There's probably something you know. The things that are still living. We're going to keep under the bus. That's what I think too. We're going to keep it. I wouldn't answer that question. Yes. No. No. I'm not answering it. Ask it's a good point. Big. Big enough. Big enough. It just says buck. You don't have to say where. Antelope?

It could be a buck antelope. Yeah. 81 inch. I don't know. You did spend some time in Wyoming. I mean.

Jason. No speed goats. Still chewing it. I'm still chewing it. Yeah. I'm going to. I'm going to pass.

I don't know. And it's not like you'd let one go. Per se. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing a deer in the preseason scouting and we'll just say never seeing them during the hunt is not like letting one go. I saw them for three second glance. Yeah. There may have been some instances where he did have a weapon in his hand and walked away from some stuff. I know. What are we talking about? Where are you going with it? I just know you and I know that you would walk away from stuff that most men would. Well, what I want to do. Are you thinking about a specific instance? I'm not thinking about specific instances, but I'm thinking about phone calls maybe in Colorado. Did happen. Let's box that 90% of the guys would love to have on a low points draw like that. Yeah. Did happen. Sounds like, yeah, somebody needs to be with you. See what I mean? I didn't even think of those.

I didn't even think of Colorado because my mind. Well, that's the next question. Utah. His mind's on bigger deer than Colorado. It's true. That's what it is. I wish I would have killed one of the deer in Utah, but, you know, it didn't happen. Yeah. It's life, you know? Yeah. It's just life. But, hey, now everybody gets to enjoy them. It's true.

Really frustrating. It's really, really frustrating.

Good answer. It is. It's really frustrating. You know, I'm really close, though. You got to give me a little credit. I'm really close. For a lot of years now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just never really putting it together feels like maybe I've lost my edge a little bit.

It's partially by choice, though, kind of. Well, and also some of these Nevada, Utah, you've been in a drought. When there's water, Bronson, I think maybe we're deviating from your little question and answer thing here. But, like, when there's water, it's exciting. So I'm talking to an outfitter in New Mexico. He's like, this restricted muzzleloader thing is working. We just don't know how good it's working because we're in drought. We've had some dry years. He says, but, like, it's no joke. Like, some of these units that are a primitive weapon. 15, 13, 17. 15, 13, 17. Yeah. He's like, it's legit, and I know it's legit, but they're droughted out, so you don't see it. He says, if we have water, it's going to be. Just know they're older bulls. You're going to see what this limited weapon type's doing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it does feel like that with Nevada and Utah.

It feels like that. Like, we're seeing. We're judging some of these things off of drought years. You know? And then, anyway, when you see a couple significant deer, just imagine what could be, you know, with the right age and water and things like that. But, anyway, I don't know. Just a little bit of a, every time it rains, we get excited. Yeah. I don't know. You know? Well, regarding mule deer units, there's another specific question here.

Stetson says, Colorado mule deer units, run down for 2026. I don't know how. Are we ready to do that already? Well, I mean. Maybe. I think we're talking generalities. I mean, I don't think there's any one or two or three units you can say were the clear standouts. That's just not really the way Colorado's going right now. I think we can all say got off to a pretty good start second season, probably collectively. Saw more big deer killed. And we're talking western slope. Eastern Plains was a whole other story. It was off the charts awesome. Which it hasn't been. Which it hasn't for a lot of years. But that's a totally different situation. Oh, yeah. High private land. You've got to have a place to hunt or an outfitter to hunt unless you're local and all that. So we're talking western Colorado units is what we usually hunt. Second season definitely took a bunch of good deer.

And then we had that warm, mild, you know, third that didn't really change a lot. And then a little bit of rain before the fourth. But it just didn't. No big snow events. So. I thought after the second, I'm bracing myself for. A phenomenal third. Yeah. And everybody. People were wanting landowner tags. They were wanting to get the turn back or whatever. They were just kind of frothing for having a tag, you know, for third because they watched what happened in the second. So anybody that didn't have a tag after second, we were all just like, holy cow. If that happened on second, what third did it bring? And it didn't happen. Yeah. It was like nothing. Yeah. But as far as unit breakdowns, I mean, you can talk about general units like Gunnison, you'd have to say it was generally average to below average. It was not phenomenal.

And I think you could say that about a lot of what you would label as top or the better units. Just underachieved. But that doesn't mean that you should be somewhere else. It just means that's kind of Colorado right now. Most places are underachieving. Almost, I'd say 10% or less of the units are good or above average in terms of what our expectations have become of them. It's really hard to predict Colorado, you know, because it makes a liar out of all of us all the time, it feels like. Yeah. And if you have one year where some of the basin units or other units, call it 44, call it 21, 30, whatever, has a really good year. The next year, they almost have never been duplicating that two years in a row. You put that on a hunt you went on. Yeah. So we went on it last year. It was awesome. This year, second, there was a big deer killed. But then third, fourth, by the time. Yeah.

And you could take the most lightly hunted unit like a 44 and still say the same. You have a one phenomenal year. No. And then it just doesn't. It doesn't know. No. It's hard to duplicate anything. It's like they had just enough bucks, and when they get skipped, you need three or four years for them to build back up, it feels like. It's still fun to go. Yeah. You know, I think we all, most of us went, didn't we? Most of us. Yeah. Devin, did you go? I can't remember. You set this one out. Yeah. So how would you characterize it in your words? Colorado units. Deer. That was a whole. Well, I think, I mean, I think we're all underwhelming. We're, you know, would kind of characterize it. But what's really hard is with social media, you see all the good ones. And so then you're like, man, am I the only guy that doesn't kill a good one? Wyatt, you were showing me some bucks I hadn't seen.

Just from, and you didn't know specifics about them, but just bucks that you'd come across. And I mean, it looked awesome, right? Like, we're seeing the highlight reel. Right. Exactly. How many, how many tags are in Colorado and how many deer, big deer do you see killed? Exactly. And if you do that relation or proportion, it's, yeah, it's small, but, but it does keep you going. You want to put your hands on a big one and there's an, there's an opportunity to get a tag. You want to be there and it's rifle in November generally, or end of October, November. That's exciting too. Like there's reasons to do that, you know, a lot of good reasons. So anyway, but we could do a rundown at some point. No, I'm not, I'm not talking individual units. I just think the collective, I mean, you, we could, I couldn't name the top five units in Colorado.

I don't think anybody could, you could name five that you'd maybe think were going to be good and then see at the end of the year. Oh yeah. Well, yeah, you could say that. And then you go there and it, that was tough. No snow. Yeah. It's a thick unit. But private, private in places. So, I mean, it's just, I think, I think answering it as a collective hole is probably all you can really do for Colorado. And yeah, with the changes coming there in 2028, this year, next. Yeah. If you got a lot of points, probably definitely in your best, best, best to use them. Hard to know what that change is going to look like. What it's going to really do to a hundred preferences. It's going to make a huge. Yeah. It is going to make your points aren't going to stretch as long though. I mean, you got 15, 18 points now and you're on the cusp of drawing something.

And now your tags are basically cut in half in that unit that are going to the max point, guys. Like, it's going to hurt that specific. But now you have a chance to draw 44 or 10 or 201 or something like that. That's my point. The center preference is even though there's only half. What's your first choice is going to be? Yeah. Even though there's only half, there's a lot of guys that are going to say, well, I just want the best this year. I've got plenty going on. And so you've got a certain segment of guys that are now out of that realm because now they could get a 44. They could get a 21 or a 61 or something like that. I don't know. It'll be interesting. Even like a two-point unit. You'd be like, well, I'd rather have a chance, a small chance at something awesome. Yeah. Rather than a 35. Some of those might get easier a little bit because people are like, no, now I've got a

chance to draw something I've never had a chance to draw in my life. Yeah. A 10, 20-point unit. Yeah. All right. There's units, too, we've seen a resurgence, a little bit of a, like, I don't want to call a resurgence, maybe a surge in quality that we're like, oh, where'd that come from? Yeah. And you're wondering, is that going to last? Can that duplicate another year in a row? Or maybe, maybe not. Kind of fun. There's a lot of units in Colorado to choose from. And we're pretty good at helping guys figure those out, you know, because. Well, and using our minimum points query online really helps us a lot. So type in a three or four point range in there and filter it by season, you know, archery, muzzle, second, third, fourth, whatever you want. And I would say our online odds, we consult off them a lot. They're super helpful to be able to do that query.

Call it a minimum points query, but it's a query of, you know, between five and ten, five and eight. Yeah. Three and eight. Whatever it is. Like, I have seven points. Well, here's some that you might not get, but you might get lucky. And then here's some that you're guaranteed to get. To your four climbers. And then when you look at that, then it's easier for us to say, well, I have experience in these three or four units, you know, which we, I mean, that's just within that query. We, I mean, talk about 20 or 30 units. And so anyway, with that, it sure does, sure does give guys options. And I think they're good, solid options, especially in comparison to some of these other Idaho's and Utah's and generals, so to speak, or easier to draw areas. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So. All right. Moving right along. I was talking to a repair guy that was at my house fixing something.

And he was like, we started talking hunting and things like that. And he's like, well, what do you guys do? You know, how do you help me? And later on in the conversation, he commented, I'd really like to go to Colorado and hunt, you know? And I'm like, this is exactly what we do. Like, we can help you just. Help you get there. Joint, call. Like, we'll help you choose where to go. We'll help you, you know, know if you need to build points for a couple years or if you can go right now. Once you do draw, we can help you. Like, we can also, you can tie into our member database, the people who have been there. Like, it's just, I want to go to Colorado, but it just never happens for him. Well, this is exactly why we're here. We can make that happen for you. And you'll be way more successful than if you're. This is how important I think Colorado is to us is, Adam, how many units in Colorado

do you hunt this year? Like, meaning with you and your family. Yeah. Two. Right? Two for two. Right? Right? But, I mean, what other states do you hunt that often? How many years have you hunted Colorado without going without? John, you were in Colorado. Yeah. Oh, gosh. You were in Colorado. I had a great experience. Logan, you were in Colorado. I had a great experience. Wyatt, you had a great experience. Yeah. You know, it is what it is, right? I went. Chad and I had a great experience. Somewhat close to us. So, you can, the potential's always there. And we were all in different units. Yeah. Not clamoring for the same units. Whether it be draw tags, whether it be turn back tags. It's just. Yeah. You know. So, last year we were collectively in seven different units. Just the guys here at this table. Seven different units. And you do that over the course of 10 years.

Or 15, 20, 30 years for some of us. Yeah. That are really old guys. Cover a lot of ground. Yeah. And it's just. And was there one unit that we all wanted? I mean, there was one or two or five units that we would all just love to have. But then we're realistic, too, with preference point system of saying, this is what I can command to get. Or maybe we get lucky on a turn back or something like that. A reissue. Yeah. And I think what a lot of guys don't think about is we talk to people on the phone. We consult. And so, I mean, Jason, you might talk to 50 guys in a day. And everybody here might talk to 30 to 50 guys a day. I mean, you're covering a lot of information. We have a lot of information that we can help guys out with, you know. If you've got a dream to go somewhere, we can make that happen. All right. Chris, question for your guys.

What states have the best non-resident Shairus Moose opportunity?

And I guess he said opportunity. So, I assume that means to get a tag versus trophy. Trophy, you'd say Colorado probably is the best right now. Yeah. Like Colorado is no joke. Yeah. They're killing giants. Giants. But you can't hardly get a tag. But it's also better than others. Like, it's better than Montana, better than Wyoming if you don't have the points, you know. But I'd say Idaho. Idaho. Idaho. For sheer numbers. And just giving up the opportunity to apply for a deer and elk or something like that. Yeah. 50, you know, 500-something bull tags a year, I think, a year-wise. So, up to about 50 for non-resist. Could go that way. And a lot of options if you're just wanting a Shairus. I mean, and not terrible odds. I mean, you've got a front tag fee and buy a license. And you'll be out at about 300-something bucks. But it's one of those things that, I mean,

if you could apply for deer and elk or something, there'd be a lot more people applying. And you guys would apply. But you're not applying. I'm, I drew one one year in a weak moment, applied for, I call it a weak moment. A weak moment, I decided I wanted a Shairus. But anyway, no, it's just one of those things that you kind of, you do it. If you're not going to be applying for other things, or you're only going to do a general deer or something, then you can go ahead and apply for Shairus up there. And they make you pick on the once-in-a-lifetime things, too. Most guys go sheep. Yeah, if you're doing moves, you can't do sheep or goat or something like that. Which, same thing with goat. So you've got to make. Kind of the lesser of the once-in-a-lifetime type species. Yeah. You can go to Alaska or B.C. and save up money and go hunt mountain goats. You don't have to draw one.

Most people are going to have to draw a rocky tag. But, man, you do. We were talking about the prices. Like, you do have to save up. Like, those goat hunts are not cheap anymore. They are anymore. They're going up. But, I mean, still, when you're compared to $100,000, $150,000 rocky hunts versus $15,000, $15,000 to $20,000. Okay, moving along. Good. All right. This guy wants to know opportunities for DAV or severely handicapped people. And, you know, in states. And so maybe they're new to the west. I don't know. There's a couple states. Well, you probably deal with this with some of our clients that we have to apply. And there's a couple of them that I can think of. But what are your thoughts on that? Idaho, specifically for DAV individuals, they have discounted licensing up there. Also, their own special draws. Like a disabled veteran. Yep.

They also have their own special draw for the general tags up there. Separate quotas, right? Yep. Separate quotas. And also New Mexico offers the mobility impaired. Mobility impaired. It's kind of special seasons. Yeah. You have to be unique. Only certain individuals that qualify can apply. Mm-hmm. Arizona's got the champ hunts. Not lots of tags. But they've got them. Yeah. They've got some early rifle elk. And once in a while you can have the Kaibab in September. Kaibab non-champ. Yeah. And it was kind of a no-joke opportunity for a few guys. But it's not really. Not a lot of tags. No. Maybe one non-resident. Maybe it's 10 or 20 total. So one or two non-resident. That's right. Those are approved. That Kaibab deer hunt did have great dates. It was just a great opportunity. Right after archery, if I remember right. Yeah. Mid-September.

But New Mexico is probably the most universally broad for. I mean, they've got stuff for, you know, lots of different species. Elk probably most notably because on a lot of the muzzleloader and rifle units. You can hunt a week before everybody. And kind of the tail end of the rut. But generally like the youth and the mobility impaired. Yeah. And prime, premium type season dates. 5th to 10th of October. And I think other states like, I don't know, you want to throw in like Utah. And I don't know all of them. But you have to get approved on a case-by-case basis. Hunt later. Once you draw a tag, you know, it's not like you get applied for anything special in Utah. You maybe apply for some kind of variance after you draw a tag. And you get approved or you get denied on it.

All right. Likewise, question here. For budget-minded, guided. This is probably for Devin. Budget-minded, guided big game hunt. Where are you going and what are you hunting?

So, I mean, that's, I don't know what budget-minded kind of has a different interpretation for everybody, Devin. But what do you think for? I mean, anything you can draw helps. Yeah. Antelope, if you've never hunted antelope. Those are usually draw tags. You can be sub four grand on some of those. Montana. Or even less than that in like Wyoming. Wyoming. If you can draw a zero to one pointer on private land. Yeah. Pretty couple grand. You can draw quick. And then, yeah, you're probably going to be.

But, yeah. I mean. A guide draw maybe like New Mexico. Coos deer. Could be. Yeah. Sub five maybe. It's 5,500. There you go. I like it. That's thinking outside the box. You throw a barbary sheep or something weird or quote exotic in there for $6,500, $7,500. I mean, if that's somebody's will. You can do a two-day guide rule in New Mexico and save some money. Yeah. Two-day guide deal for all, you know, most species there. I mean, sometimes you may. If you drew sheep, you'd probably go more than two days. You would. But, I mean, some of these other species, like a two-day would make sense. Yeah. And you could stay a little longer if you wanted or work out a day fee after that or something like that. Black bear. Some of those hunts you've had up there in Canada for mule deer stuff have been pretty fair priced for the hunts they are. Yeah. And white tail, some of them. For being quality.

Yeah, quality. Big deer. Yeah. Big deer aren't cheap, and so it's a good point, Wyatt. Yeah. Black bear. I just talked to a guy in Montana. Has some openings today for black bear. And those are, I think he was, the one guy does a youth hunt for $2,500. Wow. Spot and stop black bear. For youth, you take your son. That's $2,500 for your kids. That'd be awesome. Adult would be, I think, $4,000 or $5,000. So, yeah, there's stuff out there. Deer and elk, it's tough. Certain white tails in certain places, too, are pretty reasonable. Yep. Wyoming. I mean, even guaranteed tags like Missouri, Illinois. Yeah, or even like Wyoming. Easy draw Kansas. Wyoming, eastern stuff, white tail only. You don't even think about that a lot. Those are cheap. Even if you're building points for a mule deer, a lot of those you can draw as a second choice.

You've got to put a 128 or something down as your first choice that you're not going to draw, and then draw a white tail second choice and go on a hunt there for really reasonable. Yep. Lots of game. Hunt the rut in November. So, all right. All right. Another general theory type question. Burning points versus saving for high point units. Pros and cons of each. I guess just, when do you save for high point units? What states? I think for me, it's probably more state-driven. More state-driven. More state-driven. Like Arizona. Yep. Arizona, there's not. I mean, they don't have just. I mean, there's opportunity out-cunts, but any out-cunt has good potential to some extent down there. So, I usually treat it like. Kind of go for what I want. Go for what I want. Yeah. And I think you want both. Yeah. It kind of depends on the individual. You have some guys that are book animals only.

I mean, you've got other guys that are, hey, I just want opportunity hunts. What I like is gaining points. Hard to. Yeah, you're right. What I like is gaining points for times. Okay, I did a latar tree, elk in Arizona. Right? Didn't. Is that what I really want? I mean, is that what I aspire to do? Not necessarily. But it was also within three to five years of you drawing an early archery. Yes. And you have three to five points. There you go. And what can you draw for that? Nothing. But remember that one. I did point boost. Okay, well. I had ten. You could have stuck with my. I was just. I know exactly. That's still no man's land. I know exactly. That's still no man's land. It is, and that's my point. You can't draw another archery with ten points that you'd want. And we were like, well, if I'm going to go with a buddy and we're going to do something late,

we're going to hire a guide for a while that really knows it like the back of his hand. It would, you know, so anyway, I had the points to command the tag. And so we planned it. That was kind of one of those things where, you know, and so that's what I like about gaining points. But the following year or the year prior, if you looked at maybe my year prior application, it was probably for the best couple in the state. Yeah. So that evolves depending on the year. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so then all of a sudden now I'm all of a sudden I've got two or three deer points in Colorado. Maybe I learned something or I'm like, I'm going to go try this unit because I've never tried it before. Now I have a couple of points I could do it. Well, and there's some states, and I would say Colorado and Wyoming for deer.

Definitely view those as, it's not worth building tons of deer points in Wyoming. Even their limited entry units that take max or one under, you're not hunting as good a deer as G&H. When G&H are good, you're not. Right. So if you already have 20 or 19, okay, it's hard to burn them. But still, like 128 or some of the late hunts that, you know, you still have 10% odds with 20 points. Yeah. You're hoping to find a 180, hoping to find a 180 buck. I was talking to a guy about that today. Like, it was just one of those things where. So there's states that you definitely should have a mindset of going more often, don't hoard points. Wyoming. Colorado. Colorado is one of them for elk and deer. You know, guys that have a ton of elk points. I guess with this news changing, Colorado coming forward, yeah. Well, basically, let's explain that. You had to be a random nature to it. 50 to the max.

Right now, it's 100% preference on deer and elk. You know, sheep and that doesn't work. Sheep doesn't go into work that way for deer and elk. But then it's going to go 50-50, much like Utah's limited entry draw. Half will go to the max. The other half will go randomly, which, yeah, all you guys that are caught in no man's land with 15 to 25 elk points that are self-guided public land, guys. I mean, you just, there's no options really for you to draw. Can't even draw units like 61 anymore or 40 or stuff like that and try to do it on your own. Like, yeah, you're going to have options now. Put in. Put in for something you want. So, like you said, state by state, it kind of changes things a little bit. Yeah. Nevada and Arizona, I stick to what I want. Yeah, and Idaho totally changed depending on the year because there's no points on the line. Same with New Mexico. Totally changes every year.

Yeah, and so you incorporate a couple of those in to be hungrier in certain years. But as we progress throughout, you know, these states are now into the 30s in points. You know, a lot of Arizona and Utah stuff taking 30 plus for certain species. I mean, that's not going to slow down. It still can't knock them off. So it doesn't make much sense to say I'm holding out for the best two elk hunts in Utah if you're just starting to outdeploy. Unless you say, I killed 350 to 380 bulls, and that's the only thing that gets me out of bed in the morning. Yeah, or if you have a hunt already booked like with Devin or something in New Mexico or something with a guaranteed landowner tag or a CWMU, you know, or something like that, then you might just say, yeah, I'm going to just go for the gold and have a very slim chance to draw. I don't know. Do you have anything else to add, Devin?

I think it's year after year. Year to year, I mean. Like for me, these New Mexico, like I drew two New Mexico tags. I didn't have other things for sure set in stone, so I went a little bit, you know, got a little, yeah, more aggressive. And all of a sudden I got two more tags, and yeah, it's awesome. I had a great time. That was the bulk of your year. I would say the same for Wyoming elk. If you're happy with hunting just mature like 280 to 300-inch bulls, which a lot of people, that's what they're hoping for. Burn them and go. You're going to get into elk, you know.

Yeah, that's how I feel about Wyoming. I think that the creep will – you're not going to catch much. Waiting and waiting and waiting. Should we hold off on some of the others and finish with a little bit of a story?

Depends on who's telling. I already told the story. I got one for Logan first. I got one for Logan before I did it. You do?

What did I do? I like that. I don't know a question. No, I got a question for you. This is for you. There's no – oh. Logan's getting nervous. I know what it is. This is from a Josh underscore Pollock. How many pounds of meat did Logan leave on his Colorado deer cape? Are we taking bets? I'm going to say 15. Could we consider that wanting wasted wildlife? It's not the four-quarters back traps and tender ones. He packed it out. He packed it out. Yep. Was it? Josh, I wanted Josh to do my European mount on my Colorado buck, and I left him my cape as a good friend would, and he was not satisfied with capes and steaks. You gave him your cape. To let him do it as he sees fit. A premium Colorado deer cape, and he throws you under the bus. And he immediately, how many pounds of meat are you going to leave on this? I mean, he got dinner for his family as well.

In your defense, if you get really close, you start slicing into the hive. Yeah, you want to sew up a bunch of nicks, and you want a few steaks. In my defense, cash can attest. And now you offered him. You gave him meat and a cape. I fed his family. I allowed him to make some money off me, supported his business, and what does he do? Imagine that meat rolled up in a rut and buck cape in there. I thought you were going to say, I think giving him meat for the family is a stretch. Imagine that meat rolled up in a taco. Josh Wood.

That ain't meat I want to eat. Pre-seasoned with a little sage. Rutted up net. Ruddy neck meat and Vienna sausages at dinner for Josh. Cash can attest. I'm a good caper. I'm good with a knife. You got the job done, and he's going to be able to use it and make money off you. Yeah. What else do you want? Yeah, that's it. Be grateful. Am I supposed to attest at this point? Go ahead. You know what? Fine. That's the last time I go on with you. Not stamping your name on Logan. I don't know if I'd stamp my name on it, but I know Logan's story, and he's probably okay. That might not have all been his fault. That is the last elk I pack out of Colorado for Cash. That might be the last elk I pack out ever. I might just be done. It felt like Cash went in there and spooked him deeper. I think he did on purpose. I did let him get quite a bit deeper before I decided to kill him. This is a problem.

It's the he's about to get away syndrome, and I'm going to kill this thing. What I like about Cash, he's a killer. He likes to kill. It's fun to shoot my gun. I don't know. It's kind of like Swilce's dad. Just a killer. What was your story? Well, what I was thinking about is the season of Predator Control and Coyotes, and I was kind of going to get Cash's latest Predator story. I could throw someone under the bus on this one. What? That'd be fun. Let's do it. You want me to offend someone? I don't care. Your friends. It's up to you. These are your friends or your future not friends? They're family, man. It's family. So he can't go anywhere. No. Probably the quickest stand of my life and his, it involves about a minute on the stand, two shotgun misses, and I rolled the crap out of a cow on a dead run at 200 yards. Wow. You were cleaning up his mess. I cleaned up. Shotgun misses? Shotgun.

At 20 or 30 yards? I cleaned like 40. Who? I, yeah, tried killing some coyotes and called one in first stand in the morning and it winded us and it got away. Went dry stands all day. Got to like the third to last stand of the day and we set up. I'm like 50 yards behind him so I can see stuff that he can't. He can see a bottom. He starts the call and it's like just left to him but straight in front of me. But there's a, there's actually a dead horse carcass up on the hill. Like 50 crows on it. So it's like something's going to come from that way. So I'm kind of watching that. And we sit there for two minutes or so and it's quiet. He finally starts the call for the first series and it maybe runs for four seconds. Like four, maybe five seconds is all. It's like, reek, reek. Stop something. In my head I'm like, wow, why do you stop this so quick? That's weird.

And then like eight seconds later I hear boom, boom, two shotgun shots. I'm like, holy crap, what is going on? It's like something how to just try running him over. And so I look up that way and there's this coyote ripping out at like 150 yards, kind of quartered away to the left. And so I shoot and miss over it and it kind of turns and it's bebopping kind of more straight away. I just rolled it. It was like 210 yards. Impressive. The second shot, boom. Yeah, second shot rolled it. And you're thinking, okay, we got a double. He's got one in his lap over here. I was like, we just doubled, I'm pretty sure. Like, that's awesome. Like, heck yeah. After calling all day and you finally see a stinking coyote, it's like, great. And so after we call a stand for like 15 minutes like you normally would, within a minute, and walk up there and I'm like, tell me we just doubled. He's like, tell me?

Just tell me we just doubled. I don't know. And you're like, oh. I was like, oh. What do you mean, Cash, you shot twice. Did you kill two? Yeah. Yeah. So I, we start looking, we look at tracks, and we're like, yeah, this is tracks, and that's the way it's going. I'll bet it's only one coyote. But he said that the coyote, like, he started the call, looked at it, looked up, and there was a coyote coming. Like, he started it, saw what he was looking at, looked up, and there's one bee-bobbing through the sage at like 100 yards. He was laying. He was just laying under a tree at like 100 yards. And so he says he came in, went behind a tree, so he got up, got his gun up, and was just watching, and never saw him come from out of the tree. And all of a sudden, he's there like 40 yards to his left. So he grabs his shotgun, and he's kind of through a sagebrush looking at him,

and kind of shot through the brush, which a shotgun, you can't kill them through a brush, essentially. It's not really easy unless you get one just right. And as it was ripping out, he shot another one. And so it makes sense. Like, it's not that easy. And then I rolled it, and we thought we had doubled, and it was just one.

You're king of the day. I was king of the day. But I gave him the jaw so he can turn it in, so he'll make 100 bucks. And he needs to fill your gas tank. Well, he drove.

So that was my payment. Did you say 100 bucks? 100 bucks. I thought there were 50. If it's in a deer zone. If it's in deer country. Hmm. There's new maps. There's new overlays you've got to incorporate to where you call them. Do you want to go with that? I'll tell you a story about jaws one time. I killed a bunch and had them back when you just had the jaws and the caps or whatever. Mm-hmm. And I, you know, they have to be clean. I had like, I think I had 22 of them laid out on this window in a shed. And now everything's ready. I was going to put them in a bag and take them in, and I go out there the next day. And like, I had to be a raccoon or something. What? Destroyed. Whoa. Teeth, jaws, bones, just all night. Just chewed on them, broke them to pieces. I threw it all in the garbage. I'd have been so bad. That was like $1,100. That's $1,000, Kevin.

I didn't think Cammie was ever going to talk to me again. Yeah. Half of them were his. Because you could see going in there with bits and pieces to a game warden. What there was that going to go? Here's a pile of teeth. There might have been a family of records or something. Jeez. It had to be. Anyways. Kill every cut you can. Good job, Cash. It was fun. It was awesome. Yeah. Well, is this going to go out before New Year's? Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, might as well throw one shout out for the Montana preference point alert. You're probably, if you're going to hunt Wyoming, or sorry, Montana for deer and elk next year and didn't get a point or didn't apply this last year, you get a preference point for that, for the general, which actually will help you go into that draw with two if you apply in April. But if you don't intend to apply, don't buy it because it's a waste of $100.

So take it from me if you don't actually apply by April 1st. Reason it's a waste is you can't do points only for two years in a row. Yeah. Right? So you've got to plan on applying for a tag. Yeah. If you buy a point this year, you've got to apply the next year, which tomorrow. Yeah. March. March is. So do you have anything to add there, Wyatt, to clarify on any of that? No. I think you said it pretty well. Okay. All right. You've got to tell the 31st. So happy New Year, everybody. Stay safe. And. Safe. Renew your license application stuff so we can get in our draw for NLPers. We'll draw that. Yeah. Friday, what? Wyatt, if you were to win that, what would you take? The vinyls, the rifle? What would you do? I'd probably go with the rifle. I have the vinyls already. I think you need a new one. I do think. But maybe it's the range finder that you need. Yeah. I don't know. The eights.

A separate range finder that stays with each gun. Yeah. Try these eights out, maybe. Who knows? Yeah. If you're selling your seven, let me know. Are you selling a gun? No. Not selling a gun. Okay. No, it's the range finder you need. Yeah. I've got a seven mag, Devin. No. You're interested. I'm pretty specific on one, but. I don't know. Yep. I haven't seen this go. All right. Sounds good. Happy New Year, everyone. Happy New Year. Love. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic-approved outfitters and members-only optics discounts.

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