EP 378: Opportunity Tags, Guided Hunt Options and a 197" Utah General Mule Deer

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter out of Brunswick. Hey Devin! How are you? Devin! How are you? Are you back on the monster? What did you have for lunch, Carter? Logie Bear goes up to get somebody out of the snowbank and can't even do it. Shout out Fab Rats. But you know, your pants too tight. That was a high off- In your defense, we haven't bought you a shovel yet. I've got two shovels in the back. In my defense, you haven't bought me a winch yet. That's what you haven't bought me. I almost asked you if I could take your hitch winch. But you've got to come along. It was $19, right? That John hooked you up with. With the $19 come along, I was unable to winch an entire Cummins out of a snowdrop. One ton diesel. Adam and I didn't even want a come along. We didn't even want one. You didn't get one. We already know. We already know what they're capable of.

You're going to winch a little dirt bike out of a ravine. That's all I did. Four-wheeler and a side-by-side. Maybe. If you're lucky. Keep you from slipping off a cliff. If the tires are not deep and trenched in mud. I don't know. I've done some interesting things with a come along. Oh, really? Like what, John? Like build a chicken coop. No. I was able to get a Land Rover with no axles onto a trailer. That's what I was thinking. Really? You did? Yeah. How did you do that? I jacked it up and then I put pieces of plywood under it. And then you rolled it off the plywood. Or rolled it off the wood. Well, I put two pieces of plywood so it slid a little bit. And then I used the come along to get it on the trailer and then took it to the. So everybody, Harbor Freight has come along for 19 bucks. Or at least they did, right? They did. It was a great sale. Yeah.

And so John went down at the heat of battle in the middle of mag week and grabbed come along. So I'm just teasing. I have no idea what it was. He called us randomly. Adam and I looked at each other and we're like, where is he? I bought two of them. Yeah. Yeah. Where'd you put them, Devin? Come on. They're in both trucks. Are they? They may be in my garage on the shelf, but they're going to go in the truck boxes at some point. I just never have had great luck with a come along, but. It helped me in life. It's better. Did it? We pulled the four-wheeler onto a trailer that way once. We're stranded. Come on. Yeah. Tire fell off. Jeez. 24 miles an hour. All right. So, John. All right. What are you excited about right now? I'm super stoked. And this, you're going to have to listen and you're going to have to act really quick because Saturday's the last day to get in on this weekly.

Today's Friday. Yeah. So, depending on when this gets posted. It'll be out tonight, Logan. It'll probably be out by tomorrow night. Yeah. A little Friday night fun. We'll put it out tomorrow, 10 p.m. Logan's been sick. You never know. He might not even get around to it. I might be in bed at 5.01 p.m. You might get another call from somebody in the truck. No wonder you're single. So, if it's Saturday when you're listening to this, you've got to act fast because we're doing a weekly drawing. We're doing our big, big hunt giveaway. But for a little bit of excitement this week, we're doing a weekly drawing. And this prize. For those that participate. For those that participate, yes. On the big drawing. Yes. On the big drawing. So, I had a guy ask me. He was like, well, I see that you're advertising the Nevada deer hunt. And so, this is, he thinks that that's all this is about.

And really, if you buy tickets for any of the hunts, you could be in for this shotgun. Exactly. And this is just no ordinary shot. So, this is, I got this weekly prize just for Devin because he was so. I'm not that happy about it. I'm so geeked out about it. I think what it was, too, is we were thinking about it. But then when he grabbed onto it, we realized we all want one. Bonds were forged. John, how long have I been talking about one? Oh, eight months, probably. Eight months. It has to be. Why? So, Devin, talk about the show. I want one of these. Do you realize if you shoot somebody with it, you're going to prison? Not if they're in my kitchen. Well. Or my basement. Especially in Iron County, Utah. The most red county of all. Well, let's say, let's go through the details of it. What are we talking about? What is this?

Well, it's, I guess if you can't see a photo of it, imagine a bullpup shotgun with an 18 and a half inch barrel. Okay. And on the forend is three tubes that hold five rounds per tube. Five rounds of two and three quarters. Semi-auto. Four rounds of three inch. Five of two and three quarter. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's no joke. Yeah. Yeah. And you rotate as you need. As you feel. So, you throw one. It's so cool. So, let's say you're first. You're throwing BB or four buck down the pipe. And he's still running. Now you can throw a slug. You can go to tube three. I personally would. And throw a slug at a hunter. I would personally color code each barrel and know what was in it. But what? You color code? Yeah. Put a piece of tape. But I think you're going to need tritium. Put a bump. I don't know. No, you need tritium stuff. Different colors of tritium.

If you have 16 rounds of buckshot, somebody's in your kitchen. No. That's all you need. But if you need to know the slugs. But to Jason's point, if he's running away from you and you start shooting slugs, that's when you get manslaughter. Because he's running away. Because he's running away. And the threat is gone. I just worry about Devin in the heat of battle. I'm trying to train you a little bit. Be careful. Don't shoot him in the back.

You know what I worry about more than anything? Is like a pit bull on my kid. Or grandkid. You know what I mean? Yeah, you wouldn't want to use this for. This is like. You go to get it, though. You go get it. Well, I don't know. You should be packing. Red Dawn happens. And you know, this is the red line. If somebody's in my house, they're wanting my food. That's what this is for. They want a cup of rice. Yeah, try it. Bring it.

They want your last package of antelope. I just wish. Have we posted a picture of this? They want some antelope back. On the website. It's not a normal looking shotgun. For those of you who are listening, its overall length is. What is this? 28 inches. Okay, but it. Barrel's 18 and a half. But it looks like it's. It looks like it's 20 inches. Yeah. You know. Yeah, it's really. It looks short, short. In front of the trigger guard, you got this button that switches barrels. And you just semi-auto. Yeah. Until you run out. And then you rotate it. And just keep pulling the trigger. Throw one in the pipe. It's an IWI TS-12F TAVR 12 gauge shotgun. There's a picture. 15 plus one in the barrel equals 16 rounds of. Yeah. Bring it. Two and three quarters. Yeah. And it's semi-auto, so you're not going to get smashed. You know what I mean? If you go through both. 16 of them.

If you go through all tubes. I mean, you're half a box of shells. I know. But. In the gun. I want to put. Now, this one's. This one's never been shot, nor will it be shot. I wanted to shoot it, but it wouldn't let me. Yeah, because it needs to be new. Yeah. Which is fair. But as soon as they become available again, we'll buy another one. Jeez, guys. I think if you look on the internet. He makes me nervous. Why? That grin? Let's just put it this way. Have you been properly trained? You better need what. You really need. You want my credentials? Yeah. I might want them. I might want them. You ever run a background check on me? I have concealed carry. Fully trained. You better really need what you're going into Devin's house for. I've been to front sight. I haven't. It's pretty fun. Oh. No, I'm not properly trained. That's why I need 16 rounds. That's right. So, all right.

So, it's the tan color. Yeah, it's awesome. I put a picture of it on our website, epicoutdoors.com. Just click on the giveaways, and it's right at the top. You can rotate. So, you can rotate each two, and you can load from either side. Yes. If you're a left hand, load left, right, whatever you want. I mean, multiple sling. I mean, it's awesome. Yeah. You're going to have some new in your house. A gun like that in your possession. This is not a hunting. No, but it's a gun you kind of want. You would give it a name. It would be part of your family, right? Yes. You would name that gun? Something cool. Something cool. So, you got a dog named Moose. Yeah. But that would have a name. Anything come to mind just off the top of your head? What's a good bear name? What's a good name? What's a good name for that? I don't know. The Enforcer. Something. Equalizer. It ain't even fair. Terminator.

It ain't equaling nothing. If somebody's in your house and they don't have, you're not going to be undergunned. Lead slinger. You know what would be fun? If it's for defense. Go out and shoot clay pigeons with that. Just for fun. I don't know.

No. You'd have to put a red dot or something. Well, and it's got a rail for it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Do whatever you want. Throw a little Vortex red dot on there. Some tiny little thing. Or whatever you want it. They're made for it. Yep. This is pretty awesome. If you win and you're a felon and need cash, call me.

Okay. Make an offer. I'll vendor it. We cannot.

What about Zell? He is Zell? No, I tried that once. It was weird. But, yeah. No, whoever wins this, it's going to be fun for them. ACH, electronic check. It's going to be a centerpiece of your gun collection. Let's put it that way. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Pretty fun. So, got to get in by what, John? Tomorrow night, Saturday night, 1159. We'll run the draw on Monday. Sells February 31st. January. On that deadline? Yeah, January 31st. If you're after that, then there'll be something else. Yeah. You're only in the, this is only a deadline for that weekly gun drive. All the ticket sales, you can buy them for the giveaway until February 25th. And we may do another couple of fun things. We like to just give stuff away. It's fun. That's the bottom line. It's fun. So, we'll do a couple more. But this one's got your chance. There's not going to be another one of these.

So, if you think you're going to get another one next week, that's it. We would have bought. Let's put it this way. The reason Devin has gotten partial to this gun is go try to find another one. You can't. Hard to find. So, the fact that it's slipping through his tight grip paws right now is, it's hard for him to take. Right, Devin? Yeah. I mean, jeez. He can't even talk straight. It's like taking away his daughter. I'm afraid when it's time to go use it, he's going to want to play with it first. They make more every day. I don't know. It's pretty awesome. They do. That's pretty fun. You just know if that's hidden in your cabinet closet under your bed, whatever, you're going to be. You're going to be A-OK. You're going to be all right. You feel better. It's a feel good thing. You're going to have to do a lot of remodeling. I'd say there's going to be a lot of drywall patching. Yeah.

It's going to spray down here. Pretty cool. All right. It's true. Okay. Well, Devin. That was fun. Do you want to tell us any, what are you thinking about for Arizona? Got any thoughts? What about you? Are you applied? Why are you turning that on? I'm applied. I'm in. You are? I don't have many points. Yeah. Why not? What did you do? Some archery. Two choices. You did? Yeah. Good. I like it. Wow. When you start at two points, it makes you feel a little better about yourself, you know? But you know everybody's starting at two for the most part. But yes. No. I'm open for random stuff. Really? Yep. That's what's my options. It's because you've drawn before. So you have the loyalty and the honor. Correct. We call it a hundred point. But anyway. Ethically hunting. Ethically, yep. It was hundred. It was hundred. We got it. The one I got's hundred. Yeah.

It's maybe even better than the ethically hunting one. You have to go to Arizona. I feel like mine costed more money. I had to drive there. It might have. I don't know. Dollar value. We had to drive there and spend the night. I drove from Panguitch to Fredonia. I lived in Panguitch at the time and drove to Fredonia. It was awesome. Terrible.

All right. So anyway, yeah, we've got to be doing that. We've got to be applying. It's going to be an interesting year. A lot of green down there. People are sending photos. It's a lot of green. I don't know, Bronson, maybe that water thing you sent over last night. Well, that was for southwest Utah, Pine Valley. They talked about how much water they'd had in rain form from October, November, December, January. It was pretty crazy. Yeah. We haven't had any snow, but some of those little reservoirs are full because of the rain before any rain runoff can hit. But that's not the whole, you know, I think that corner hit by far the hardest in southern Utah. Not fully indicative of everything here in the south. Not from there to the Colorado border. I know San Juan and all that, they didn't get that kind of water. I talked to one of our outfitters yesterday.

He was hunting south end of 34, 36 country. What state are we talking about? New Mexico. Oh, they got crushed two weeks ago. They got snow down there. They were hunting elk in 10 inches of snow. Wow. He said we were kicking prickly pear. You couldn't see it. Right in your shin. Killing bulls in 10 inches of snow down there. Wow. That's wild. That's probably my best now. Remember we saw that storm? That was a wild storm down there. Yeah. Well, they got snow and ice in all that desert stuff. All the way through the desert and into Texas and Oakey. There were some big bucks killed out in that desert in New Mexico this last year. Really? Yeah. Tell me about it. No. What did that mean there was bucks? 32 inch. Picks or it didn't happen? Got them. Oh, whoa. Friends. We'll talk. My friends down there. Okay. Well, it's always been an area that produces your life.

It's just a big, fast, sand hill country. There's always real potential out there. Yeah. There is. In fact, your brother's going to be down there. Yeah. Your brother's moving to New Mexico. It's going to be our eyes and ears down there. I'm hoping to learn a few things. If you ever need an anesthesiologist, or what is it? He's working at the lab. He's a nurse anesthetist. It's basically an anesthesiologist. He's licensed. I mean, who comes up with a name like, It's really hard to pronounce. The medical names make no sense. Take it to go. Just pronounce them. This probably ends up at the lab, looking on a special project. Devin's the conspiracy theorist in all these places. He needs a shotgun like this. It ain't breaking bad down there. Well, maybe it is. I don't know. Those poils hermanos. I don't know what that means. But anyway, with that kind of moisture down there in the desert,

in Hobbs country, out in the middle of the sand hills, it'll be pretty fun. Pretty interesting. Pretty cool stuff. So, anyway, but there's a lot of options in Arizona. There's late rifle options for guys with a lot less points. People say, well, I only have 15 points. I can't get anything. Okay, those are by choices. There's options for you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, you can. You can forcibly make it happen in 10 or 12 years if you want. And some shorter than that. And, I mean, some might say, well, that's a long time. Well, if you're a rifle hunter and you stick to early rifles, just plan on never-drawn attacks. Yeah, and that's okay. You might. I drew one in 1953. You had max points probably at the time. That was so long ago. It was here 2,000. Yeah. It was so long ago. Yeah. How long ago was that? Well, that was 26 years ago. Add the two points, you'd be at 27.

So, you had max probably at the time. Yeah. One point. I don't know. I don't know. Guaranteed. Three. Four. Probably. Probably. I think you did. It was a wild times. But you drew that. And then you drew again archery. Yeah, I killed a good bull back then. You know, but, I mean, it's even gotten better since. You don't want country. But, anyway, there's just options for everybody. So, anyway, anybody that's looking for something, if it's early muz, early rifle, late rifles, late archeries, I guess. I'm not a huge fan of that. Better get it in by Tuesday. Tuesday at, what is it, 11.59? Yep. On the 3rd. All right. So, what else are we going to talk about, John? Have you got anything else on your plate? No, I was just excited about the shotgun.

Devin, he can get us excited about anything. Devin, why don't you talk about some of the things that's on your plate in your division? I know a lot of, you're working with outfitters on a regular basis with guys that are looking to go hunting. Don't need points. Maybe, or maybe they do, right? Maybe they are some. A little bit of everything. A little bit of that. But you are dealing with a lot of outfitters with guarantee tags. Yeah, there's stuff, I mean, all over for that. Lately, it's been mostly helping our clients match their Wyoming points to their goals and outfitters. They're ready to go. Yes. Some of them, it's like, yeah, we could make this happen. Yeah. So you're looking at the odds with them. Adam and I are doing the same thing. Wyatt, obviously. Looking at the point levels they're at and saying, these are your options.

And I really like our minimum points query on the website for that. Oh, I live on that thing. Yeah. It's awesome for consultants. And you can basically say, okay, here's your five options. Oh, by the way, oh, you want to go guided? And then you can kind of funnel them into a spot that really makes sense for them. Yep. A lot of that. And then a lot of the outfitters are just finishing up. So catching up with them, hearing about their years and just their openings. And, yeah, they're filling up fast. What are you? It seems like you're booking parties of elk hunters and deer hunters and other things. Even Canada hunts, Alaska, all kinds of things. Like just kind of summer, maybe go through, you know, you'll have guys call and say, hey, I want a 300-inch bull. There was a guy you were working on that was kind of, you know, I had talked to a friend of his. And he was like, yes, I want to go.

And this is what I'm looking at. And his buddy's well-versed in the elk hunting world, but it's kind of new for him. And you were like, oh, yeah, I can help him out. Like what are some of those requests? His buddy's an older guy. So, yeah, it's all those parameters and things that we need. And that one was going to be or will be New Mexico, guaranteed ranch only tax. Yes. Northern New Mexico. And what kind of price range are guys looking at? Like I know prices. That one's a little cheaper. It's on the cheaper end, probably $85,000, $9,000. Including landowner tag, not state tag, not transportation, things like that. Yeah, there's some others right there around $10,000. I mean, and then from there, archery, it'll be a little more money. But, yeah, there's stuff. Lots of elk. I mean, we've got private land Utah. I've got openings. We just had two good openings.

Well, like five for Alaska Yukon Moose for 2026. Come on. Usually those are a year or two out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're averaging 66. Wow. Yeah. 10 out of 11 last year, average of 66. So there's stuff out there, just whatever you need. But it changes on the day. Every day, yeah. Yeah. Some guys I can help that initial phone call. Yeah. Sometimes they'll say, hey, I have a database I can keep you in mind. And you call them up in a week. It could be two days. I got a Moose opening. Yeah, it could be three weeks. You asked for it last week. That's right. Here's one. We usually can make it happen. That's what I like about here, Epic, is we're returning calls on a regular basis. Like, when you say, I put you in the database, like, they are truly going to get a call in the near future, most likely. Might even annoy him. Yeah. No, just kidding.

There was one you showed me about 10 sticky notes, and you're like, I'm about done with this game. Well, you can only play phone tag for so long. He is not that interested. It's one thing to be interested. It's another thing to be willing to write a check. So, I mean, you got to deal with that, too. Yeah. Right? Yep. Well, in some of these, you don't have a lot of time. If Alaska Yukon Moose or two opens with one outfitter and one or two with another, because people are backing out, that's basically why they're opening up. It's not like it's the bottom of the barrel. They can't book them. These are, oh, I have a past returning client. They want to shift it to 27. I'm going to help them out and do it, so I've got two spots. You don't have much time to decide on that, you know, if you're going to go this year. Yeah. It's like a doll sheep or something for this year.

Where are you going to find one of those? Same thing. If you really want to hunt sheep somewhere and one opens up, pretty much better take it or you're going to get in line and book for 27 or 28 or 9. Every year, the guaranteed hunts get just slightly earlier, earlier, earlier. This year in December was crazy. For home bookings. You mean as far as the demand. So, like, generally our booking season would be a December, January, February would be a heavy booking season for that particular year. You would think during the draws and some of that, but, like, November, December of the previous year is the time. That is the latest time. For 2026 hunts. For 2026. And then this November, December. Many, many of the outfitters on guaranteed tags, zero draw tags, or just a tag you can acquire was between November 1st and Christmas, basically. They're booked up. They're booked up for 26.

It used to be, you know, maybe February, March. It did. You know, two, three, four months later than that. Now it's happening earlier. Earlier. Yeah. People more excited about it. And then. But I think people don't realize how many opportunities are out there for just the points they may currently have. Yeah. Montana. So many. I mean, there's so many. And you'll talk to. Colorado. We gave out our members. You have zero points in Montana. Yeah, we're talking about. Go with an outfitter draw. Wyoming or Arizona. And then we find out they've got nine bonus points in Montana and they want an archery elk hunt. It's like. Oh, we. Let's go. Let's get your name in this. This year. Apply this year. Buy the extra outfitter point. Going to tune. A lot of the times it's just overlooked. They just, you know, just need to talk and go through it all. But yeah, we're. Yeah.

They've got opportunities they haven't even thought about. I'm excited. And that's what I like about building points in all the states is you just never know when there's something comes up that you're like, oh, I'm glad I got points. What's the craziest point you think you have somewhere right now, Jason? You've got it in your mind or you wouldn't be bringing it up. No. Yes, you do. Adam never brings up something. I asked you first. Question reader guy. Go ahead. I don't have any questions. I asked you a question. Oregon. Guarantee. You're thinking about Oregon. No, I'm not. Yeah. I know.

He talked me into it. That's what you're doing. That one too. What? Which one? Colorado antelope. Yes. A lot of the years. Ah, you did it. Well, I've done it for four years since you told me I'm crazy. Hey, give me. Right here. How about. Ah, never mind. You're not crazy. If you like antelope meat. Devin, do you like antelope meat? All right. I'm. Yeah. I've gained a taste for it. Let's just say you're extremely fond of it. Okay. All right. Why not? Why not do Colorado? Why not? You know, we talk about Colorado as if it's terrible, terrible for antelope. It's not. The only reason I did it is. It's not an Arizona or a Wyoming. The only reason I did it is a couple of the other guys said they would do it. And some of the archery and muzzles don't take that one to draw. And we could just go. That's right. Go see if somebody could actually kill one.

Some of these muzzle hunts are grouped up into groups of units. Yeah. And not like the rifles are broke out into individuals. Yeah. And I love that. That's our only chance, me and you. We're at the same amount of points. We basically. You're in my open sight. Loose powder. Bring it. Bring it. Yeah. I've got to call it out. A muzzle or sitting in my seat. Loose powder doesn't bother me. No. The open sight. We figured we'd skip one lunch and that'd cover our app fee, didn't we? Every time I buy it. I'm so glad I made a good impression on you guys. I love this. Well, that's the one that I've seen. And if I could point boost you guys, I would. But you can't. Right? If I went in with you, I'd go in with four. And I've got 20-something. It's so bad. It's embarrassing. I'm sorry. So maybe that's the one I was thinking of, not your organ. But, yeah, you divulged a couple.

Well, I mean, I've got organ points coming out. And the funny thing is, is you quit like me after you drew your sheep. I quit, but they never purged. For probably five or I don't know how many years. I don't purge. I drew my sheep and quit. You did for a while, and then you got lured back in by some premium tags. The premiums. They are no joke. Okay? Oregon has giant deer on premiums. And there's only one premium per area, but it's a chance. December 31st, there's bound to be a buck. Stick his nose out, buy a December 31st. And here we are buying raffle tags for Colorado or other places, like raffle tickets. Why wouldn't I at least throw in for a premium? And, oh, by the way, I'm going to throw in an extra $8. Now it's $10. Whatever. Go ahead and dive in. Keep my deer elk and arrow going, right? Yeah. Keep it going. So there I am. I like it. There I am. There we go. The rosy options.

I got it. I don't know. The rosy, Columbia, White tail. Whatever. Black meal box or meal black. What are the hybrids called? Funniest thing. You can. Okay. Okay. It's true. Anyway, there's. Oregon is. I will say this. Of all the states that have the biggest upside, I feel like Oregon's one of them. I'm just saying. Define what you mean by that. Meaning for weird units that don't take much for points, they have a few giant bucks. The wild card factor of some. In lots of units. In a number of units. For mostly deer you're talking. Yeah, deer. Straight up mule deer. Like what else is there, right? Not elk. I mean. Come on. Elk are fairly confined. There's a few wild pop-ups down there. But mostly that northeast one. They're not like mule deer. Mule deer can be out in those deserts and just be kind of wild. Or in the thick trim. Yeah. Or on the east slope of the Cascades.

Which is when those premiums allow you to hunt basically the month of November. It's kind of the awesome part of it. Am I going to survive the winter? Nope. Okay. Okay. I think those end at the end of November. Do they? I couldn't remember. All right. Well, okay. But hey. Ossifer. I mean, the police. That's what I hate about Oregon, too. The police are the game wardens. It's just the state police. Why don't you like that? Really? It's the person to person. I didn't know that. Goops are kind of like the Oregon. I've been checked. Kind of like the troopers in Alaska? If you're going one or two mile an hour in Oregon, they'll get you. It's a good friend of mine, Rob Douglas. Our friend, Adam. You know him well, obviously. Hunted with him even. But we were checked one year. 1953. Any violations? No. No. But there was. We were with people we didn't know. And there was random. What?

Pistols laying around. It was just. It was a really weird feeling. Really weird. It was really weird. I'll never forget it. I haven't heard this story. Yeah. I scrolled one of these days. You're on the hot mic right now. I got the guy. I could call him. No. That's his move right along. Hey. Always good. Kind of fun. But I do love. I do love a state like that. People would say, well, Idaho general would be the biggest upside. Wyoming general would be the biggest. And that's true. There is huge potential there too. Well, if you could hunt with a gov tag in Idaho or Wyoming. Wyoming on a true governor tag. If they did a true governor tag. That might be. Jeez. That might be a half million dollar tag. Exactly. It might be. Yeah. But when you buy one there, you have to pick. You can hunt any unit in the state within the seasons established.

But if you could hunt a 365 day season like Arizona in Wyoming. Or just an August 1st to 30th, like November 30th. August 1st to. Or August 1st to December 31st. Something. Or. Yeah. Something kind of common. You know what I mean? It would be unbelievable. For those five gov or ten gov tags. What do they sell? But anyway. Well, hey. Whatever. I don't know why we're talking about this. If wishes were fishes. Or fishes were fishes. What's the story? You're a fisherman. What is the saying? If wishes were fishes, we'd all have a fry. A fry? A fry. Oh. Okay. A fry. Oh my heck. Yeah. Oh, a fish fry. I've never heard of that. You haven't heard of that? There's a second verse that's. But I. It would get edited though. Is it? Yeah. If horse turds were biscuits, we'd eat that we die. That's it. Really? Yeah. There is a lot of horse manure out there.

I don't know. My dad used to say it. My grandpa used to say it. I've heard the first verse. First, not the second. So, Devin, you've also got. And Adam, maybe you can talk about this a little bit too. Because you were heavy into all of that kind of thing. But talk about maybe the guide fees and what outfitters are charging for elk hunts in Wyoming. And if you wanted to go, there are options. But it's a little more expensive than what we're talking about in New Mexico. Not saying it's not worth it. We're talking on draw tags. Yes. Draw tags, wilderness hunts, whatever. There's a variety of options. Private land hunts, things like that. That's the thing. In Wyoming, none of the hunts include landowner tags like they can do in New Mexico. They have. You know, you got your standard hunts in New Mexico that. What? Devin, on a draw tag. Call it $6,580, $500.

Probably even captures a lot of the guide fees. I mean, there's some more than that. You do have some 14-day archery hunts. If you book an early archery hunt, you know, that's going to be more. Or even a day fee after. But the five-day rifles kind of make the fees don't get too crazy. You can only guide you five days on the rifle and muzzles. It's like a Colorado guide fee or in New Mexico or Arizona. You draw tag. Your guide fee is going to be reasonable. $7,500 to $10,000, call it in that range. But Wyoming just do a lot of the backcountry natures of their elk hunts. And, you know, frankly, you deal with a lot of stuff, weather and all that. Private land. Yeah, or private. Longer hunts. Or private, and they can be longer. It's not uncommon to have $10,000, $12,000, $15,000 elk hunts if you draw the tag. Yeah. Not talking land or tag. That's if you draw. Yeah.

Shouldn't scare everybody away. Not all. There's other places that they're not that way that don't have some logistical issues to pull off a hunt, you know. And we're talking general up to max point units. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I can't believe the options guys have on generals. Self-guided or guided. Actually, pretty darn good hunts. Yeah. On the western and southern. And there's normal generals that you expect to pay, what, Devin, $7,000 to $9,000. And then there's backcountry stuff you're paying $12,000 to $13,000 for a general guide. I would say most of the horseback stuff's $9,000 to $10,000. Yeah. Right in there. But there's some that are the tits. There's some that are more. There is some. Yeah. And if you paid the special tag fee at $2,000. Say it's a $61,000, $62,000, $63,000. Well, they're backcountry $55,000. $55,000. $56,000 late. Yes. You're horsebacking every day.

You're $12,000. I mean, you know what I mean? They're steeper. They're steeper. There's a lot that goes into that. Keep the horse alive. And you both. Yeah. But even the generals and the thrower fair, that stuff, you're still $85, $9, $10,000. But there's no difference between those and drawing the other. As far as the outfitter's concerned, you're going deep. Yeah. It's like the same comparison of logistics in Alaska for moose and caribou. Like, at the end of the day, the logistics are the stress. Yeah. You draw a tag or get a regular tag. A little bit less flights for meat, maybe. But other than that, you're still doing the same kind of deal. So I think it's interesting that you've got some of these moose openings that came available like that. I just find it. Just this week, right, Devin? Yeah. It's been recent. Three to four days ago.

Even though we talk about the hot time being November through, let's call it January 15, you know, for booking hunts and whatnot, you're going to have openings come available from now through June, July. Yeah. I mean, you book a lot of guys even in May, June, July. Yeah. Elk County, you get an initial wave early. And then, you know, when people feel like, oh, shoot, I didn't draw what I thought I was going to or I have nothing, we have that New Mexico landowner tag wave come through. Yeah. And I get a ton of openings in there. And that's usually like first of July. Yeah. A lot of the time you have more New Mexico opportunity first of July than you do December. Yeah. You know, or pre-draw. But, yeah. It's been busy. It's been fun helping all our guys. It's been a fun winter so far.

Well, we're talking about these two states, but then as soon as they're over next Monday, Tuesday, then, you know, I guess New Mexico is technically open, you know. But another couple of states kind of. Yeah. Another couple of states take their place and become on the front burner. It won't be long after that. Like I said, Nevada guy draw will start being on the front burner. And then, you know, Montana. And March is a big one for that with an April 1st deadline. So, it's like just one after another. And if you wait until the last few days, like in Wyoming, we've told a lot of people this week, Devin, I'm sorry, you're too late, you know, with your points. What do you mean I got the points to draw? Yeah, but so do other people. And they've already contacted the outfitters. The outfitter figures he's got enough. Yes. Definitely happens. It will happen that way in Montana. Don't wait.

There's a lot of outfitters. Because Montana, you can draw with the first year you put in with an outfitter point. You're talking all the generals? Yeah. Oh, yeah. If you wait until the draw for the general, especially if you want private land. You're done. Yeah, because you can pretty much go every year on a 90%, 85%, 90% draw, which means about everybody. With the outfitter point, regular point that you're going in with. So, you can't wait. You know, the same thing will happen with Colorado deer. You know, that's March, April, first deadline, roughly. And if you wait until about then, same thing. It's predictable. Any state that has a predictability in 50% or 75% or Colorado deer in 100% going to max. It's like, you know when you're probably going to get it. The guys that are going to be hunting Colorado this year? Booked two years ago. Have already been. A lot of them.

Last year have been, are right now booking the hunts. Especially for, like, elk and some of the elite deer. Like, you know when you can get drawn. Guys can't take three or four guys on a late 44 hunt or a 10 early rifle or something. So, they book one or two guys. All right, no, you're in line. You're in line for next year. Mm-hmm. I had guys, and we've had this today, multiple guys call in and just talk about easy to draw tags. I had a guy that's like, literally, I just want to teach my kids that we eat the meat and all of this. But I also may want to do something special someday. And so, we just kind of went through the states on all these of the options they have. Maybe we just rattle off a few of those options that come to mind. And, like, say a guy calls in at them and he's like, I just want to know, you know, some of the easier, more easy opportunity type hunts.

And I'm thinking, well, we're starting off, I guess, with Idaho. Yeah. Doing the Idaho General December 15th deadline. Do the General. It's a little expensive, you know, because if you apply you and a bunch of kids and don't get it, you're out 200 bucks a pop. For the hunting license. Yeah. I mean, it's not real cheap. Maybe if you're applying anyway on the limited control hunts, maybe you could justify all that. It might be. But I'd say definitely Wyoming, you know, deer, elk, antelope, throw it in there. Colorado, deer, and elk. And the elk in the general is so easy to draw. Yeah. Colorado deer and elk, even with one to three point elk draw units there, whether it be archery or first season bull or four season bull in OTC units, just gives you a little bit of reprieve from the totally over-the-counter stuff. If you're just trying to get your feet wet and hunt.

Colorado, you can hunt deer every single year. And a decent hunt every other year or every third year. And then the Montana, as we talked about, other situations. If you're self-guided, even, yeah, just general chasing deer and elk. First week in November, grab one of those OTC elk, or excuse me, deer tags in Arizona. Yeah. Utah general would fall into that category, too. Yeah, depending on the weapon type, might get something easy, even a dedicated for non-resident and some of these. Not the best generalers. Well, they're easy to draw because the quotas, there's not a lot of non-residents pointing out the money because a lot of them buy their license fees more expensive. Plus, they usually pay for their hours because it's way cheaper than driving to Utah and do them. So it's expensive. Kind of unique where those three years of general tags actually equals more than a dedicated. Yeah.

And it's easier for non-residents than residents in most places to draw dedicated because the quotas. Not that many non-residents vying for those tags compared to residents. Yeah. And you don't have to come here to work the hours. You can buy them. Yeah. So anyway. So if it's appealing to you. So there's, I don't know, there's four or five states right there, you know, if you want to just have easy rotations. Even Nevada offers, like center of the state, if you want to do area 14, 15, 140s and 150s, super easy to draw for deer. You know, especially archery and muzzle. Like not hard to draw some of these. And they're not, they have good numbers of deer, but they're not like destination areas for trophy bucks. So I'm not even touting that. This is just strictly opportunity type hunts. Kind of the opposite.

You know, I compare Nevada and Arizona a lot in terms of cost to apply is very similar. Expensive license and 15, 20 bucks per species. But what I usually tell people is like you just said, Nevada has way more mule deer options to consider drawing archery, muzzle, and rifle for. That you would halfway want. All over the state, you know. And Arizona doesn't. No. They don't have. I mean, they have some. They've got the generals. They're stacked. But you're hunting 30, 39, 40. Weird stuff. But you've got all the coos that add to the deer. But Arizona has all the laid elk and the mid-tier archery stuff and the laid elk for you to force it. Well, you can't force yourself to get a Nevada elk tag ever. That Nevada doesn't have. Yeah. It's kind of the opposite on those. Ford Arizona deer tag is what you're saying. Yeah. Arizona deer tag is way harder. For any cow quality.

So sometimes you're just trying to help people make the decision. Are you more of a mule deer? Yeah, I'm way more mule deer. I'd recommend you do Nevada then. Over Arizona, if you don't want to spend 200, 250 in both places, that's what I do. If you're, oh, I'm way more into elk, I'd probably lean more to Arizona. It's tough to talk somebody going to Nevada if they're just an elk guy. I think an underrated one that we forget about sometimes is Montana antelope. As easy as they are to draw. So easy to forget about that. Get a couple points, sit on them, whatever, and you can take your family or, you know. Hey, I think. If you're going to go guide it anyways, those private ranches are the way to go. It's much cheaper than New Mexico. But it's essentially the last application. So you know if you have nothing that year, okay, we're throwing in and we'll go. And I think we didn't collectively.

I mean, I did. Devin, did you back out? You're looking like you've. Didn't we commit to start building points? I think I have more points in Montana than I need. What does that mean? Four, five, six? Well, that's fine. I don't have that many. But I think we made that promise to each other too. Oh, wow. But we also made the promise. I'm just glad you all took it on. With the Carter Meat Wagon. Oh, yeah. The Meat Wagon. Take a little generator. The last time the Meat Wagon went. Hopefully we got a tailwind. There was no meat in the Meat Wagon. Take a generator with a little deep freezer under there and throw quarters. But that's another. Someday we're going to be like, oh, I'm glad I had those. Well, yeah. Guaranteed. They kill some big bucks and it's a fun. But you got to drive there or fly there. That's why I promised.

I told you guys I'm not going there alone and you all better go or I'm not going. So start together. We need to split gas money. Well, not even that. Just the camaraderie. You'll fall asleep driving up there by yourself and back. Those hunts are fun, though. It's a long way. We had a good time. Northeast Montana. Last year, the Carter family smashed the Matalope. You'd have been proud of us, Devin. There are not many that got away.

I think it's awesome. But anyway, I don't know. I just think those are things that we talk about every day and you just never know what the next phone call is going to bring. But speaking of phone calls, we probably ought to get back to it. And finish up the day and finish out the weekend. So, again, everybody that is interested, John, one more shout out for the old shotgun. Yeah, if you want to be in the weekly drawing for the shotgun, you just enter our normal hunt giveaway. And if you do it Saturday, February, or no. January. January. I can't get that right. January 31st. Then you'll be in for this shotgun. Then 15 shot, 16, I guess, if you got one in the chamber, to home defense shotgun. You don't even sound that excited. Let's strike that. No, you can leave it. That's fine. John, thank you. Go ahead, Devin. Talk about this shotgun. He's going to tear up. John was like, I take this.

Go ahead, Devin. This thing is no joke. I wish we had a good name for it. I have a lot, but I don't want to. The Gorilla. The Punisher. Something.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. There's a lot of movie titles that have been used already. I think Devin would give one away every week. If it's in your safe and somebody's like, show me some of your guns you got, you're going to show them this one first. Oh, first. You're going to trump anything they throw at you. And when you just go to the range, decide in a gun real quick, you might throw this in so you can just release some stress. Devin. 15, 16 rounds. Throw some birdshot in it. Whatever, man. Just do them out. Just hit the trigger as fast as you can. Is that not? It's pretty mad. It's awesome. It's American. Like, just go out there and everybody's doing their little bing, bing, and you just bop, bop, bop, bop. It makes you feel good. It does. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. Turn some heads. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. Anyways. 16.

And if you don't want it, don't like it, which you will, but if you're a felon and can't illegally own it, I will buy it from you. I will buy it from you. Fair market value. Well, you will. Well, geez, you've upped the ante. Fair market value? Close to.

You pay the shipping. All right. Wipe down your fingerprints off that before you mail it to the winner. No, it's clean, brand new. I can't wait to call the winner. When are we calling the winner? Monday. Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah, that'll be fun. Yeah, that'll be awesome. I think we've got a story lined up. Really? Brett Miller, good friend of ours, right? His wife used to work here at Epic. Yeah. Anyway, he smashed a great buck. Utah General. And I don't know. I think we ought to, let's give him a holler, see if he'll answer. I want to hear about this deer. It was a Utah General tag, by the way. Speaking of something you can do easily.

Jason? What's going on? Well, I'm sitting here with John and Adam and Logan. How are you? I'm good. How are you guys doing? Oh, good. We're doing good. What's new in your world, Brett? I saw something new the other day. Posted. It looks like you're going to have an extra kid join you. Yeah, I got another kid coming. That's kind of crazy. Got to figure out how to do life with that. Yeah, well, that's awesome. How many hours in the day is there? How many hours can you work? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Work, you'll work, and then come home, and now I've got to chase two of them around. Spill mom a little bit and try to win dad of the year. Yeah. You'll never beat John for that, Brett. I don't know. Yeah, that's pretty tough. They've been pretty good so far with the two of them because they love being in the mountains and doing everything that I do.

So we'll see if adding another one to the mix changes things. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, that's awesome. Excited for you guys, you and Amy and your family. Yeah, thanks, guys. That's awesome. All right, well, let's get to real important stuff. Let's talk some back hunting. Yeah, the important stuff. Tell us about this deer. So this is a general tag. You've been pretty successful at this. You've hit it hard and know what you're doing, of course. You're on the younger. Adam, he's on the younger spectrum. You're not even 30, are you, yet, Brett? No. No, I'll be 29 in July. You're still crapping yellow. Yeah, something like that. As far as Adam's concerned. You said it. You're young. Come on. No, I've been pretty fortunate to have a lot of experience and feel like I'm starting to know what I'm doing a little bit. Yeah, you do. Anyway, it was kind of fun to get the updates,

and, of course, we can't add much to what you got going. You're asking for advice, and what can we give you? But anyway, I'll just let you take the floor and tell us a big buck story. Tell a little bit about the deer. Yeah, maybe a little bit of history leading up to, I mean, you killed it in 2025, but talk about the history. There's more to it than that. Yeah. Yeah, so I guess kind of a quick update on the background is, what was that? Three hunting seasons ago, I was on a different hunt on this unit. I was on an elk hunt, and I seen this buck. Not the one I killed, a different buck. I guess one that I killed, but I seen a buck, and I'm like, got through that fall and that winter. I was trying to decide what to do. I've never hunted this general season unit before. Never really thought I wanted to, but I'm like, I'm going to go back. I'm going to try and find that deer.

Well, the very first time I go back, so this is two hunting seasons ago, very first time I go, I find this deer right away. And in one of the scouting trips on this other buck, I found the buck that I killed this year. Anyway, look for him that same year. Never found him again. I only seen him once. And it was, the bow hunt was going, and he was like 100 yards off the road. I just pulled right up and sat and watched him. And anyway, kind of that two hunting seasons ago, ended up killing the buck that I was after. And he was a good buck. He scored like 173. Yeah, that was a buck. Yeah, really cool buck. Well, that was just a general tag, and then I had a bunch of dedicated points. I wasn't sure what I was going to do. And I kind of was like, all right, I'm going to go all in. I'm going to go find, I'm going to go try and find that deer again, that he's disappeared.

I've never seen him again. I've only seen him once. So I got dedicated. When I ran cameras, was scouting constantly, could never find him. And then it was, I think, a day or two before the bow hunt, I glassed him up. I went up in the evening, got off work, ran up there, glassed his deer from like two miles away. And I'm like, that looks like a good buck. And so the next morning, got up before work, ran up there and found him. I was like, oh my gosh, that's that deer from that I've been looking for. There he is.

Anyway, called in reinforcements, had a couple good buddies. My buddy, McCade Hatch and Garrett Bastian, I'm like, hey, I know you guys have hunts going on too, but I have this deer found. I need a spotter. Yeah, yeah, I need a spotter. They dropped everything, came, hunted them all that opening weekend. Kind of, I guess I could fast forward the story through the bow season of, didn't even see them through the weekend. I hunted a morning or an evening or both almost every day of the bow hunt. And he would show up and I'd see him for a day or two and they disappear for six, seven, eight days at a time. During the bow hunt, I would probably, I think I was under a hundred yards from him like five times.

But can never get a shot off or anything. Kind of had a bunch of different things going on and could probably write a book on how not to bow hunt. But yeah, during that time, like you said, Jason, I was calling you saying, hey, how do I find this buck or how do I kill this buck? And gave me some good insight that way of just think unconventional, try something new. Yeah, you just don't know. Whatever's working wasn't working, right? Whatever you were doing. It wasn't working. Yeah. And so you're just like, okay, what else can we think of or do? It's really easy. Bronson knows it. It's really easy when you're sitting in a truck in some other state and you got a kid hitting you. You're not a kid. A freaking man. But anyway, got a young feller hitting you and you're like, it's really easy to tell him, go do this, go do that. Let me know. You know, report back. While you're drinking a Pepsi.

Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, man, I don't know. I mean, we want you to kill that deer more than anything, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And you guys had great perspective of, hey, maybe think bigger. I was looking, I think I was looking too closely. I had to expand just to look at it a different way and really started long range glassing and turned them up again. Was that the end of the bow hunt or was it in a different hunt when you turned him up again? So I turned him up, I think, like three different times in the bow hunt and got on him like four or five. I mean, one time. So this is kind of a unique thing too is I feel like I was the only one chasing this deer. I've still had never had anyone come out and say that they've seen this deer, know about this deer. It's kind of just, you know, hiding in plain sight. But one of the times I'm like, I'm all alone. I've been all alone all scouting.

I've been all alone this whole hunt. And I dropped down to go kill this deer. And I'm like under 100 yards from him. And there's a side-by-side sitting on the road that I'm walking down to get to him. And anyway, so then I panic of, shoot, is this guy hunting elk? Is he hunting deer? I don't want to be that guy that. We've all been there. I don't want to go jump this deer or ruin this. I don't want to be that guy if he's stalking in on this. Anyway, so that didn't work out. And then radio miscommunication or radio's dying. Just kind of everything bad that could happen, happened. And this deer had a sixth sense. Finally, the one day I thought I was going to kill him on the bow hunt. My wife was guiding me in. And I got to like 40, 50 yards in this thick oak. And anyway, all of a sudden, he just decided he was done and got out of there. Anyway, so fast forward to the muzzleloader hunt.

I'm like, hey, this is my chance. This is what I'm going to do. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to go all in. I'm going to take that week off. I'm going to find this deer and hopefully kill him. And that's what I was thinking. That's the hard part with hunting with a bow, sitting there, having a deer at 100 yards, thinking, man, if I had literally anything else, I could kill you right now. But so the muzzleloader hunt rolls around. I don't win. Do you find it hard to be dedicated and have unlimited? You feel like if you had one specific season, you'd hunt that one specific season harder? You know what I mean? Yeah. Versus having the option to come back and come back and come back. You know what I mean? Sounds like he hunted a lot in the bow hunt, though. He did. He did. He did. Well, after the last time I blew him out of the bow hunt, there was probably a week or maybe a little more than that left.

I quit hunting him. I thought, he needs a break. I need a break. I'm so mentally drained right now. I'm just going to let him breathe. You gave it all you got. Let's go start sighting in the muzzleloader. Yep. Yep. I came home and grabbed the muzzleloader and started practicing as much as I could is what I did. So, yes, it was nice having that, knowing, okay, I still have another season. I feel like this deer is pretty safe. No one else is hunting him. No one else knows about him, to my knowledge. So, I come home, practice with the muzzleloader. Well, that whole, like, week leading up to the muzzleloader hunt, I'm trying to find him. I can't find him anywhere. So, I'm kind of starting to panic of maybe someone came in here and killed him when I was taking that vacation off, you know.

So, the night before the muzzleloader hunt, I'm up there with my dad, and he radios me. He's like, hey, I got your buck. I'm like, oh, perfect. And then later talked to him. He's like, well, I don't know. I think it's him. I've seen him for, like, two seconds in the thickest. I love that. The thickest stuff. And so, I'm like, well, okay, shoot. Is it him? How serious? Let me remind you what he looks like. Let's look at your dad, you know. Is he a two-point? The sun was hitting him right, you know. Yeah. It's probably a legit buck. Yeah. The other thing about this is there's not many deer here. Like, it's a place that looks like there should be a lot of deer. There's not a lot of deer here. Yeah. So, my dad actually. I was kind of half thinking there was a lion in the area or something where it was tough to relocate at times. I remember. Well, I hit you up about that saying.

And you told me that he might be. He might have been eight by a lion, you know, two weeks ago. Yeah. And really, there's a lot of lions around here, so it could have been. But I thought, what are the odds? Yeah. You got to hunt like he's still alive. Yep. But people have hunted ghosts before. It's frustrating. Yeah. It can get hard sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It can get way hard. Yep. So, the muzzleloader hunt comes around. That's the night before. Thought we seen him. My dad had to go to work and have meetings. Oh, no. I lied. I lied. This is the opening day of the muzzleloader hunt. So, we didn't see him. Hunted opening day. Didn't see him. And that was the first evening. So, the hunt was going. I lied to you. It was the next day. So, that evening, I called my buddy, Matt Catch again. I was like, dude, we found him. I need you here.

And so, he drops everything in the middle of the week and says, okay, I'll be there, whatever it is, 530 in the morning. I'll be there at 5 in the morning. I'll roll into your cam. Yeah. So, he does. He rolls in.

We take off, and we just decided to get right up in his space, get close. We had done a lot of long-range glassing the whole time. We decided to get close. Yep. Went right up in and got on this ridge, and it was a ridge, and then there was the down of the valley, and then the ridge that we were thinking he was on, there was really only like a couple hundred yard difference. It was pretty close. Right as the sun's coming up, we turn him up right in the bottom. He's standing right on the road, actually, is what they're doing. They're like right off the road. It ended up being the buck your dad saw was him. It was him. Yeah. All right. Well, hey, you're dead. Give him. Yeah. Kudos, man. Right. She had his velvet. I mean, obviously, at that point, she had his velvet. I'd never seen him without velvet, but I'm like, there he is.

And so, it hadn't been light for five minutes, and I was stripping everything that I didn't think I needed. Ran. Started just making my way down the ridge and could get quite a ways. And then I had a point. It kind of went out to a point. I'm like, if I can get to there, I'll be close enough and I can get a shot out of this deer. And it was him and he had gained some more deer. And so, it was him and like probably six or seven other bucks. So, I'm like, if I could get to that point. Bucks you hadn't seen before? Some of them? Bucks I hadn't seen before. Yeah. Bucks wild? Yeah. It was out of nowhere. And I had spent, I couldn't tell you how many days and hours glassing right here. Jeez. And all of a sudden, there's more deer there. Anyway, so, I get down and it's a big open. So, I go through a bunch of trees thick and I'm good. They can't see me. But then it opens up.

And so, I'm belly crawling to this point. I finally get to this point and those deer start leaving. And they aren't, I didn't bump them or anything. They just decided, hey, we're getting out of here. So, they start trailing across and I range him. And I think he's like 280. And I'm like, gosh, do I try it? Do I not? I'm not sure. And I decided not. I'm like, I don't feel comfortable. I don't want to have this be my one shot and they aren't scared. And so, I let him leave. And then I ran to the bottom and I just started paralleling them. So, they're going around this ridge and the ridge kind of just turns. They're going around this and I just start paralleling them. I can't see them. And my buddy, Mac, he's just telling me, all right, keep going.

Keep going around. And they go up and over. And so, kind of long story short, that was a lot of cat and mouse that happened. But there's a little finger that comes in off. I'm like, okay, I'm going to get up here and see if I could see where they went. And it's funny, your perspective of what it looks like when I'm glassing down there, what it's actually like is always different. So, he's like, yeah, they're up at the head of the straw. If you get up on that, take that finger up and get on that point and you shouldn't see them. They should be right up in the head of that draw. So, I'm headed. I'm going up. I'm headed straight to the north right now. Get up on it. I'm like, I'm going to get to this point. And there's a little draw right here and they should be right up in this pocket. And so, I get up there and I'm glassing. I'm sitting there glassing glassing.

I'm like, Mac, I cannot see these deer. And he's like, I can see you and the deer in the same frame. Like, they're right there. And he thought, what he thought was the head of the draw, he couldn't see it. It was covered. And so, they were a lot lower than what he was thinking. And he's like, I think you're looking too far to the north. You need to turn east. Like, just try to look to the east a little bit. So, I turn. I do a 90 degree turn. I look directly to the right. And there they are staring at me at 150 yards. They watched me walk up this whole way. And I'm like, oh, no. And so, they're staring at me. Throw the gun up and send one? Yeah. What happened right there? Did they blow? No, they just sat there. They just sat there. So, I grab my binos. I put, well, I ranged them first. So, I range them. It's like, I can't remember, right around 150. I grab my binos. I pull up.

I'm like, okay, there he is. And there's a two point right in front of him. And so, I had the shooting six. I put my shooting six up, put my gun up. And it's funny. It was 150 yards. But with a one power red dot, like, it might as well have been 800 yards. It felt like forever. It does. When you're shooting real guns. You're joking with me that I'm young. I don't know if my eyes are bad or what. But it felt like it was so far. I'm just glad to hear it. Yeah. I'd love to. Yeah. Like, look, it's not toilet paper roll. Yeah. Yeah. I would rather shoot six, 800 yards with my rifle than 150 yards with that one power red dog. Yeah. I'll tell you what. Yeah. So, I'm just sitting there waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. Just take a step. And this two point. Yeah. Two point is right in front of him. And I'm thinking they're going to blow. They're going to blow.

And that big buck, he takes one step. Well, he kind of turned, like did how they do. They turn. I look back at you. And I thought, here he is. He's going to blow. This is what it looks like. Well, he took, like, two steps. And I stopped him. I just made a grunt. And he stopped. And anyway, let it rip. And it sounded like it hit. And it's just a big cloud of smoke. That's how a muzzleloader is. Big cloud of smoke. And then I just, you know, start panicking. Start shaking.

I don't know why, but when you go to reload a muzzleloader after that shot, it's like 14 minutes. Well, you're also trying to see if he's hit. Yes. Part in the smoke. And you're shaking. I don't know. Like, where'd they go? And you want to, is he flopping? Or is he? Yeah. So he's flopping. How many times have you only got half a load of powder down the barrel? You know? Oh, yeah. I've done that. Well, the funny thing is, so I jump up. And I, like, I'm thinking I'm all efficient. I jump up. I look. And he's over there flopping. I jump up and reach down on my fanny pack that I have. And it's this, it's a, it's a, it's a CVA muzzleloader. And it's got one of those collapsible. Oh, yeah. Ram rods. Ram rods that's not attached. So I, I pull it out and it all attaches. Is I dump my quick load in. I go to ram it down. And I, I went too quick. I snapped the ram rod in half. What?

And I'm like, no way. I've never done that my whole life, but I would do it on a buff. Yeah. Especially on the follow-up shot. Especially on the follow-up shot. So I go to ram it in, snap it in half. Luckily, it was like, it's got a, that bungee string through. So I can kind of put it together and finish, finish loading it. So I jump up and he's over there flopping and kind of just slows down. These other deer run off. And I just take off. I take off down there. This is the last of the Mohicans recreation right here. My favorite. And I'm just running for all I have run down there because I'm like, I'm going to get right up on it. You're not getting away. Well, you know, some people have heard this story and some people haven't, or this part of the story, some people haven't. But I usually say it. I like it when the real story comes out. I like it. Yeah. I usually say it ends right here.

I shot him there. He was dead. Not true. But yeah, not true. So I run down. Here's the funny thing. I run down there and he just lay in there. I'm like, okay, he's done. He looks like he's dead. I can just, I can just see the blood coming out of him. We're good. So I'm, I'm radioing Mac. We're all pumped. We're hooping hollering. He's like, okay, I'm going to go get the razor. I'm going to come over to you. I'm like, perfect. Well, in the midst of my running, I lost like half my stuff between here and there. Oh yeah. Where I was. Been there. So. Including my cat. I'm like, I'm going to, I'm like, I'll go gather all my stuff and then I'll meet you back at this deer. So I go start backtracking, gathering stuff. I get right up to the point where I shoot and I turn around. That buck's standing up. What? What? Oh no. You're back at one feet. Now you're back at one 50 when you were at 50.

Now I'm back at one feet and I'm shaking up. I'm breathing hard and I'm shaking because of adrenaline. Like after I shoot a big deer, I start shaking. Me too. I start coughing. Yeah. And you're shooting sticks. You're probably not with you then anymore. Maybe. I don't know. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm ice till, till they're dead. Then I'm a mess. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what I was doing. I thought, okay, he's dead because he didn't move. He, I got up there and he just looked like he was dead. Well, I go up there and he's standing up. So I rip off another shot and I don't even know if I hit him. You should always touch their eye. You should always touch their eye. Yeah. And then walk away. You know, that's one of those things that I've, I'm like, maybe I've, I've thought that I'm real out of now and known, but apparently not. So anyway, get up there.

I think I shoot again from there and he, he kind of tumbles and goes down in this brush. So I hear you load again with a broken ramrod. Wow. Um, go down there and then anyway, this is something that perfect buzz loader story. I love the truth. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you want the further truth, I'll tell you, like I said, most people don't hear this side of the story. I guess it's going to be out there now, but, um, another thing is. So we're in this tall sagebrush. And so he would go down and then he, uh, he wouldn't stand. I couldn't get a shot at this deer because he was still alive at this point. Um, and he had like, you know, it's, it's been a minute since I first shot him and he's just getting more and more life. Now he's getting adrenaline. So now I'm starting to panic because I'm like, this deer's dead. I was like, I was up to this deer. I was two feet away from this deer.

And now I walked away and now like, now I'm just starting to panic. So he's in the sick brush. I can't, it's thick enough. If I can't get placed where I can get a shot because I don't want to shoot him in the head. I don't want to ruin the horns. I don't want to ruin the cape. So I'm trying to be selective. Well, he's in the sick brush and he won't get up until I'm like, I don't know, 15, 20 yards. Well, I didn't practice shooting a muzzler at 15, 20 yards. And that, my, my scope and my barrel are, there's a big enough difference that when I'm on him on my scope, my guns. You can see the barrel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I was having that problem because I shot, I hate to admit it, but I came up and I would jump that deer and he would kind of go and I was trying not to shoot him right in the butt. I was trying to get a good shot, but he would, he would jump up and run 10 or 15 yards and

go down. And so I, I wasn't trying to shoot him in the butt. I was trying to not ruin the cape, run one right down the side of him or anything. Anyway. So he was kind of just playing this game for a minute. Finally. You sent a couple more his way is what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hate to admit it, but I sent a couple more his way. I like it. And, uh, and he was, and he was pretty safe. Yeah. Yeah. He was pretty safe. And I got down to my last, I loaded up my last bullet about the time Mac got there that I had on me. I'm like, dude, I have one bullet left. And this deer is gaining life. If, if I don't know what we're going to do if I can't, if I don't kill my shot. And so I ended up backing up, we got clear up. So I was like, I don't know, 70 or 80 yards away. So I could accurately shoot him and like shoot a, shoot a shot. That's not going to.

Where your red dot is roughly going to hit. Yeah. Instead of being. Yeah. So we get, we back up, get up on a hill anyway, shoot him. And, and, and then that was the end of it. But. That's the true. That's the true. That's the true. That's the true story. And like I said, not, not many people have heard that version, but there it is. It's truth. It's good. It worked out. There's only about 15,000 that now know the truth. And everybody else. Yeah. And 14,998 of them had the same thing happen. A hundred percent. Yeah. The other two, he's never picked up a muzzleloader. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Hunting with a muzzleloader is a different. Frustrating. Frustrating. Cluster. It is. Yep. There's no shock and awe. Like they just. Season date is awesome, but. Yeah. The actual. Not much else. I like it, but it's a different meal. They soak it up like nothing. Almost. It feels like just. Oh, yeah.

Down to your last round. Because you don't know how many reloads to take, right? So it's like usually. Five or so is enough. Oh, yeah. When you have five, it's like. Yeah. I'm not going to get five shots off with a muzzleloader. I mean, you got to clean after three on some of these. They're so tight. Yeah. Yeah. So you walk up. Anyway. Put your hands on him. What is it? Yeah. I walked up. I didn't even. I just went up and I grabbed him right away. Straddling. Slid his throat. I realized his cape threw. Yep. He wasn't getting away that time. No, he was done. I went up and it was. Good. It was a pretty awesome experience. Just having. Hunting a deer. Hunting a specific deer. Yeah. There's something about hunting specific deer. It's a different deal. Hunting a big deer and hunting a specific deer. It's a different deal. Yeah. Yeah. To do that. It's. So how.

It's one of the most draining things, but it's one of the most rewarding things. Oh, yeah. Give us a few specs on him. Like, what'd you end up grossing him at? Or points wise. Yeah. Awesome. Width wise. Cheaters. So I actually, I went up on him and I was like, my gosh, he's, he's shrunk. Like, I think he was a young, young buck. I think he was only like four. Wow. It. Yeah. He, because I, I had him the year, I found him the year before and I think he was like a 180 buck then, 180 ish. Yeah. And then I went up to on him and his body was, was way smaller than I expected, which surprised me. Which I almost feel a little bad. Like I, I don't, I, you wouldn't change it, but I almost wish I didn't kill him that he could have made it another year because I do feel like he was a way young buck, but we, we took care of him, got him back to camp.

And, uh, Mac, I, I had him just tape him out and, um, that had my father-in-law tape. I really only taped him twice, but they were right there at 197 both times. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. Yeah. I guess, I guess for, I guess for perspective, he's a, he's a, he's a four point, he's got seven points on each side. So he's got three kickers on each side. Um, he's got eye guards, but they're really like, I don't even know. They're like an inch, like tiny little eye guards. Um, but giant, giant framed buck, uh, got, got three kickers on each side. Um, he's really got average, average mass, average width. He, I think he was like 27 on outside width. So really not, I mean, good. Built pretty though. Built pretty. Yeah. Beautiful buck. We've got a picture of him in our February magazine here coming up for all of you guys. Awesome. It's in the EMAG and, uh, you know, it's online.

John should, people should be getting it any day. Literally. If some, I think might have today. I have a story about halfway written up, but like going back to what we were talking about having kids, it changes your time. Yeah. Time's not yours anymore. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was, it was pretty awesome. He was, uh, he was a cool buck. That's awesome story. So, uh, pretty awesome. Are you going to send one of those teeth in to get cut, cut and see exactly how old he is? Yeah. I have two of them sitting in my shop right now that I'm going to send in and because I will be amazed if he is over four. Yeah. Big, beautiful white teeth. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. You could see, I mean, you could see it in his jaw. It's, you know, he's a young buck. Yeah. All right. Well, we sure appreciate it. Pretty fun. Pretty fun story. Appreciate taking some time today going into the weekend. Have a good weekend.

And you're kind of making this a habit. Have you got another deer lined up for next year or what are you, what are you thinking? Well, we'll see. I know I'm kind of running out of deer after killing, killing two bucks I knew over the last two years. I'm kind of running out. Well, maybe we'll have a surprise. We'll see if I can turn anything else up. Show up. Yep. Hopefully so. Okay. Well, thanks a lot, man. Appreciate it. Yeah. Good luck to you and Amy and your family in the draws. Wish you luck coming up. Yeah. Thanks guys. We'll keep you updated. Pretty awesome. Thank you. Sure. Appreciate it. Okay. We'll talk to you later. You bet. Bye. Bye. Anything else, Logan? Bronson, let's do something. Let's give something away. Bronson, let's give away a Zeiss Bino. It's not even Christmas and Jason is in the mood. I'm in the mood. And Logan, you had a couple of thoughts earlier.

What are you thinking now? And then Adam, let's see if we can sell Adam on it. All right. I'm thinking we load up social media with Big Shiz. That's what I'm thinking. Hashtag Big Shiz. Hashtag Big Shiz. Hold on. Let's go see if that available. How about that? Okay. That might be a little big stuff. How about big stuff? Big stuff. All right. No, I just think. How about epic big stuff? Then it's probably less used. Yeah, it's got to get a little bit more specific. Yeah. Epic Big Shiz. Yeah. Epic Big Stuff. There's some general hashtags you don't want to type in Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're not. But no, I think. Jason. Yeah, no. The look on Jason's face is telling me all I need to know. We'll come up with a new hashtag. Let's do epic big shiz. Okay. How about stuff? We did epic arms once and it was like a lot of workout. That's what we're all about here. There's nothing.

Epic Big Shiz is fine. Epic Big Stuff is fine. All right. Epic Big Stuff. I just want to see big videos of animals. Videos. Yeah. No. I want to see videos. Nope. I don't want pictures. Okay. I want videos. Videos from anytime, anywhere. Your favorite trophy animal. Phone scope type stuff. Whatever. And you're going to repost. And we'll repost them all to our story. So tag us in it so we can see it. Epic Big Stuff. Video. Post it on your Instagram. Yeah. Tag us. It's got to be a video. Hashtag Epic Big Stuff. Any species, right? You're not limited to. No. Your favorite trophy. And then everybody that posts, we're going to give them a name in the hat. Pull it out for a Zeiss Bino and we'll repost the winner. Let's do the Zeiss Terra 80 10 by 42s. We've got one here. All right. Yeah. How long are you going to let people do that entry? What are you going to set the date for?

We're going to do it until Wednesday, February 4th at midnight. That's only next Wednesday. That's a short deal. We're going to do it short. Six days. It's hard. Okay. But I want to see some big stuff. I don't know. I'm bored. I like it. Okay. I like it. Okay. Sounds good. Let's do it. I'm in. You heard it. I'm in. Well, I mean, you know. You're in but not eligible. No, I'm in. I'm in to get you set. We'll see if Bruce wants to do it. I'm sold. I'll do it. All right. So let's do that for the weekend. And get your entries in. And let's give away the shotgun on Monday. So we're giving away the shotgun. We're giving away the binos. Pretty fun. And yeah, we'll go from there. Happy February. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states.

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