EP 384: The New PhoneSkope Mag 360, a Colorado Mule Deer Story, and The Coming Changes to Colorado's Draw System

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Check us out at epicoutdoors.com.

Hey everybody, it's Logan with Epic Outdoors. Just hopping on to let you know, we talk a lot about the Sig Sauer Zulu 6 stabilized binoculars in this episode. People who use the stabilized binoculars from Sig Sauer have a really hard time going back to using whatever they were using before they had stabilized binoculars. They're just that good. So if you're interested in getting a pair of Sig Sauer Zulu 6 stabilized binos, head over to our website, epicoutdoors.com, click on the Optics store, and take a look at what we've got for Sig Sauer products. If you're interested in a magnification or objective size that's not in stock right now, call us at 435-263-0777, and we'll get you on the pre-order list because those products are coming soon.

If you're not sure if the Sig Sauer stabilized binos are right for you or what Optics products you need for Western big game hunting, give us a call at the same number, talk us through some of your plans or hunts you have coming up, and we'll get you set up with the perfect Optics products for you. If you're interested in any of the Phonescope products we talk about in this episode, go to Phonescope.com, P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com and check out all of their products. The new Mag 360 is sweet, and if you want 15% off your purchase when you go to get your own, use code EPIC360 at checkout. E-P-I-C-3-6-0 for 15% off your Phonescope Mag 360. If you have any questions, call Phonescope at 800-790-4480 or email them support at Phonescope.com. Hey everybody, Jason Carter and the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Wyatt, how you doing? Doing well. Yeah, surviving out of season right now. Exactly.

I was going to say, you just got your, you know, just veering outside your office a little bit. Working one deadline to the next. Yeah, it's kind of brutal. Devin, how you doing? Doing good. Awesome. What do you got going? Helping Wyatt. Me too. Yeah. You and I both. Everybody's helping Wyatt right now. Just a couple of days, but it's kind of tough right here. You get close to April, it's busy. Busy, yep. Montana's coming up, and that's always a big one, interesting one. Yeah, Colorado, April 7, coming at us pretty quick. Cash, how you doing? Just trying to hang on to Wyatt's coattail, helping him out. So, trying to keep him slowed down. How is it working for Wyatt? Like, what does that really look like? I mean, it's good. No, I really have no complaints. Can we edit any bad comments, Logan? I'm writing down timestamps right now. You might have to write one down, you know. No.

No, it's good. Just kind of hang on to his coattail and let him drag me along. Yeah. Through the mud. All right. Just kidding. Logan, how you doing? I'm good. Wyatt does not ask me for help. No, he doesn't. Does I be offended by that, or is that a good thing? No. I think it'd be the opposite of help. I'd be an inhibitor. We would never meet deadlines. Oh, deadlines are for people that really care. That's true. I care. All right. So, anyway, today we've got guests in the office. How are you boys doing? We're good. Doing good. Jason, phone scope. Maybe, I don't know, Cheston, maybe introduce yourself a little bit. Of course, people know who you are. Everybody knows who Cheston is. Well, clearly I'm not as cool as Wyatt over here because everybody's helping Wyatt. Well, Wyatt's got a lot going on at the moment. It's not a cool factor, really, is it, Wyatt? No, no.

It's like just by demand and necessity. His plate's the Thanksgiving table. Nice. Pretty full with these deadlines. It's a good time of year. Good time of year. A lot of it is just because we're helping guys pick hunts, choose the units, utilizing points, and making real-world decisions that affect their fall. This isn't just, oh, we're going to do points only or something like that. Especially in Montana, you're definitely picking. The way we apply them and all the nuances that go with it is very complicated, and so that makes or breaks somebody's entire year. So then we're all involved in it. Some of us are dealing with guys and other facets of hunting, whatever, and have email correspondence and whatnot, and so we know what their plans are. And then when it comes to Montana, it's like, oh, Devin, what does this guy really want? Well, he's already got a tag in the guy drawing Nevada.

So does he really want this? And so it's just that real heavy hands-on personal application. Yeah, I'd say personalization of our service is kind of the biggest part of it. We're not one of those application services that just throws everybody in for the same hunt, the same hunt, rinse and repeat and done kind of deal. We like to actually get with our guys, make plans. And there are some areas if they did draw, they do need an outfitter, and you better have, you know, they need to know that. So it's a lot. Yeah, like I'm dealing with, like even this morning, Wyatt and I dealt with some things, and Wyatt and Devin are dealing with projects of, what does this guy really want? Oh, yeah, I have dealt with him. We need to do that a little bit different than we did last year. And stuff that you can't just have in their notes on paper. Not everything can be on paper. Yeah, that's cool.

You know, which is nice. AI can't replace us. How about that? That's true. There you go. Yeah. That's your next T-shirt right there. I expect to see that. AI can, I like it. Yeah, I like it. AI cannot replace us. I like it. Logan? I'm on it. We need to tell John, because John will make those shirts. John, listen, AI cannot replace us. That's true. I don't know. You ever worry about that, AI? It's pretty crazy. It's pretty powerful. Do you guys use it? Do you guys use it? Oh, we use it nonstop. Oh. Not for like our day-to-day consulting, although we have guys saying, AI says I should do this. What say you? You know what I mean? And you're like, really? I've tested some of that, and I'm like, ugh. Go with it. Go with it. Good luck. Go ahead. Or if you're going to a road trip with Jason, he's like, chat GPT that. Chat GPT that. Oh, yeah.

So we went to Texas, and we're down there, and there's some weird stuff in New Mexico and Texas. Strange. They're dealing with like border crossings and all the radar and surveillance and night visions and all the things. I mean, trucks with- How about the blimp? The blimp. We see this thing in the dark. Jason's like, it's a white whale. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, no. It's something like- But it is. We chatted. We couldn't. It took us a while to chat that one up. Yeah, we chatted it up, and sure enough, it was south of Van Horn. It's a tethered blimp. They pop into the sky and can reel back in, but it looks- it's just a huge white blimp. Really? Oh, yeah. Didn't even know something like that would exist. Weather or something? What does it do? Looks for people. No, they look for people. Oh, really? Yeah. Then there's- remember the trucks? There's guys- Trucks with like-

It would be like a high rack, but it's not got a full platform up top with radar equipment. And well, I mean, it would be thermal. It was what they said. Thermal. In the bed of the truck, it would pop up and have this big lens, and guys, just park there. I don't know if he's watching it. Or there wasn't even people in it. Wow. It would be like radar or like remote, whatever. That's wild. Yeah, it was wild. Did you guys see that? Lots of that. Lots of that. Did you guys see- It was probably that. Did you guys see that? You guys went to SHOT Show this year, didn't you? Did you see the Pulsar thermal you can mount on top of your vehicle and control it with an iPad from inside? You look around, 360. I've seen things like that before. Your wife was that one called that somebody sent us. Is it Night Ride or Night Ride? No, it's like a-

Anyway, it was one of the first thermal imaging devices that was on top of a truck that we'd seen. But anyway, since then, they've incorporated them into cars, so it's a big thing to go out and get a Jeep Cherokee and drive around. Yeah. Make sure you're safe. Don't hit the animals. That's right. Anyway, no, I'm just teasing about it, but it's true. Yeah. Anyway, it's kind of wild how- Anyway, we saw some crazy art, right? You could say that. Some wild art in a little community that's known for their art, which I think they're just- What are they? Probably just high and doing some doodling. I don't know. Yeah. It was wild. Did some of the trendiness things, like take a selfie in front of Prada. Yeah. So tell them about the Prada. I was talking to an outfitter, telling him where we're going. He's like, oh, you got to stop at the Prada. And I'm like, what? Never heard of it in my life.

They make the purses and shoes for Prada? Yeah. There's a building on the side of the highway. We passed it in the dark. Okay, this building is smaller than a single apartment. Yeah, I guess it's a big deal. Like Logan's apartment would be twice as big as this Prada. So, right. I'm guessing. My box. Didn't know it was a thing. But he's like, you won't stop. And I was like, okay. Watch me. So, of course, we did. I'm like, there's the Prada store. We did about blow by it. In fact, did we have to turn around? Well, the night before, we thought there was some fishy business going on. Remember? People were parked there. Oh, and then the lights. What lights? The creepy lights in the desert. Nobody can explain. And they have a huge building to view these weird Marfa lights. So, yeah. Those are the Marfa lights. I mean, there's some weird stuff. We looked that up. So, we were chatting it up, man.

And then chat has an answer for everything. I believe it. My history is strange in my browsing whatever. Marfa lights. What about driving across the reservation and then there's this, it looks like there's a drone hanging out about 30 feet above the road. Crack of daylight. Nobody's on the highway. Like, nobody. And I'm like, what's this? And Devin's like, what, what, what, what? And I'm like, no. Like, what's that? Floating about 30 feet in the air. Yeah. And it looks like a helium balloon that's kind of a star balloon or whatever. But it's just chilling. I mean, chilling. Doesn't move. We blow by it. Doesn't move. It's so awkward stuff. I mean, just awkward stuff. It was either some kind of drone or is a balloon tied to something. But I don't know how it didn't move. That was just our little escapade. That was kind of more interesting than the hunting, I would say. I was.

It sounds like you guys need to start a chat GBT Mythbusters something. AI Mythbusters. There's a long way. There's something going on. And we promised they were sober this whole ride. I was wondering what gummy bears you guys picked up on the way or something. No. I mean, it was wild. It was. You get down close. Anyway, we were in ocelot country.

We're going along and it's just gnarly. And I'm like, I'm thinking, there's ocelot. Like, I remember they live in like these kind of these arid areas. They're like a cat or whatever. Anyway, I'm like, this is ocelot country. Devin was like, ocelot? What's that? I couldn't quit saying it. Anyway, we had to chat that one. So sure enough, we were. AI helped us a lot. We were in an ocelot country. Speaking of AI. Yeah, we got Logie over here. I just Googled the stuff I don't know while we're sitting here. Which is plenty. Logan. Logan's using AI for who knows what. Projects. We should go to your browsing history. We can't. He's not going to. That's funny. Like to give Logan a hard time. Logan, how was your nightlife last night? I didn't really do much. Oh, yeah. He was lying then. Oh, yeah. 20 minutes ago. Yeah. The seven-minute drive to work after picking him up is a story. The whole life.

Was it? He's into it. Oh, yeah. I don't care about it, Logan. We're going to blow right by it. We're going to save you your dignity. Thank you. No one cares about your dating life anymore. That's the only thing we talk about on this podcast is my dating life. I was going to say, I think that's what we talked about last time I was here, too. And guess what? Nothing's changed in between times. He's blown through 26 and still single. We haven't quite made it to the big two-six yet. Go to chat. The average age in New York is like 28 to 30 or something. You're fine. Of getting married? Yeah. As long as I'm head of those East Coasters, we're good. Yeah, you're fine. Yeah, you're good. Anyway, all right. A little bit serious note. So, we did go down there. We hunted Barbary and videoed a lot and used phone scope here. You guys have some new products, which is why we're here today.

And obviously, pretty excited about it. The industry's changed a lot. Cheston, from the time, I feel like I knew you when you were in diapers. You did. And you were probably developing the phone scope in and around that time frame. Something. He might still be in diapers. He might still be in diapers. There's plenty of failed attempts. It probably was something. I don't know if it was quite phone scope or not. But anyway, so you, I mean, it feels like kind of invented that industry. Basically, along with when cell phones were becoming video cameras instead of video cameras. Right? Oh, yeah. We all used to carry a video camera. We did. Yeah. And we were holding it up to the scope and all that and video and what we could. And anyway, once cameras really, you know, that technology was innovated and really came around,

which made it viable to utilize that, your phone, as a video camera, then this need came around, which you were right on top of you and your family and whoever else you had working with you. And then now, of course, everything's advanced quite a bit. Here we are, 2026, and people want everything and they want it now and they don't want to wait and they want it perfect. And it just causes you to. Thanks to Amazon. Yeah. I want it now. I want it now. Yeah. Yeah. And so, anyway, we deal with that, too, in a service environment and company and whatnot. It's just the, you know, the lack of being willing to wait and want everything now and answers now. And so, anyway, it forces you guys to be innovative and keep up with everything and even excel in this space. And so, maybe talk to us a little bit. And I don't want to leave you out.

Jason, you're instrumental in this and have dealt with a lot of the R&D and whatnot, if not a good portion of it. Huh? Chestyn? Just teasing. Yeah. Just teasing you. I love teasing Chestyn a little bit. I've already. Jason always teases Chestyn. Both Jasons. Yeah. Both Jasons. Must be a Jason thing. A bully name right there. Yeah, exactly. But it does take teamwork. It does take teamwork to come up with products like these and to be able to put them out timely and to unveil them to the world and mass produce them. Obviously, it takes a company and good dudes that are doing it. And a plan, a master plan. And so, I'll just kind of give you the floor and tell us, like, what brought you to this point and then how it works and kind of all the ins and outs. And you saw this problem. I know, Jason, you were out in the field and saw this problem and then went back to the drawing board.

And so, it's been a little bit of extra time to come out with it right. You know what I mean? Yeah. No. And, you know, a lot of it comes down to listening to our customers. They spoke. We listen. But it's not – it comes back to that instant feedback you're talking about. Well, we want it now. Well, sometimes the best thing takes 20 or 30 revisions to get it right. And so, we're not going to release something fast to the market that's not going to – it's going to do a half job, is what we'll call it. And so, it's been a lot of grinding back and forth, a lot of driving to St. George, working with engineers and stuff. And so, we've got something that's great now. It's called the MAG 360. And it's a conversion kit that will convert all your old phone scopes. So, we know why it's still using his Samsung S8 from back in the day. I don't know if that's true. Way back when.

I have an old forward scope that's glued together that you gave me when we're looking for deer. I don't even know what year that was. Long time ago. That was a long time ago. Yeah. It was like a first bought a phone case from the store and glued this thing on it. We made it all work. We still do that today. Do we? For customers that have a phone I've never even heard of. We'll make a custom case for them. And create that personal connection. You know, hey, look, we don't have anything, but let me help you out. An old droid. That's what it was. Oh, yours was a droid. It was a Motorola droid. Wow. That's dateness. Yeah. Hopefully, you have an iPhone today. I would hope. Yeah, I do. Well, he does. But it took a minute to get to that point, too. A lot of it is they force your friends. If you have friends that have iPhones and you're a hunter, you kind of need one, right? A hundred percent.

Because you're airdropping and all that. Or you have to go to WhatsApp to get good clear video or Instagram DM to get good video and transfer it that way. We held out quite a long time. Yeah. It took a lot of peer pressure. It's hard to let go of that S8 active. S8 active. And then when you finally come over, they're like, what is this? And it's like, it's the easiest thing ever. What do you mean? Yeah. The only thing I don't like is it feels like they're whatever. The powers that be are infiltrating every corner and nook and cranny of your life. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Something we talked about today will show up on our Instagram reel, on our Google search history. How does it happen? You could talk about Lysol. And there will be ads on Facebook to sell you Lysol. And I hate that. Devin, you don't like it either, right? Well, we tested it.

We talked about Lysol for three days. And sure enough. Sure enough. Serious. Even stuff I look at on a work computer will come to my phone back and forth. Because it just knows you're the same guy. Yep. Through your Google account. It's a problem. Your email, this, that, whatever. It's a problem. Yeah. And so it felt like Samsung, it just felt like there was a little more of a barrier of entry, like not so invasive. You know? Yeah. But I don't know if it's true or not. I have no idea. I'm not that guy. I don't know. It's crazy though, isn't it? And these guys like Logan and his generation, it's so funny. It's like, you know how a social security number was sacred and you never let it out? These guys care less. Ah, what do you want? My personal life? Give it out. Social security is my login. We could AI it. We could AI Logie Bear right now and up he would come, you know? It's true.

And so anyway, they're not used to that. His dating profile? Is that what would pop up? Who cares about that? Throw the SN right in there. Let him credit check me. See if that helps. We already altered his dating profile. It was like, I was going to say something. You had a good suggestion. Yeah. I'll give you that. It was a photo that suggested things that he shouldn't have. And I was like, dude, you're not getting any dates because of this. Anyway, thinking like that. We're updated. We're manned. All right. So moving along, the iPhones or whatever, you're making these old phone scope cases, no matter what phone you were using. And if you are a Samsung guy, fine. This works for you too. Yes. Correct. Yeah. So it's a conversion kit that will convert all of our optic adapters and phone cases to be able to connect magnetically.

It comes with a carbon fiber dust cap that we can leave it on at all times. Super lightweight. And it's really simple. The Mag360 part, it'll let the phone rotate 360 degrees. That way you don't have just a horizontal and vertical picture option. You can actually rotate. Yeah, because sometimes I remember the old phone scopes. Like I would be just off just a little bit because the weight of the phone would want to change that a little bit, right? Yeah. And then so it'd be off just a little. And so you would loosen your scope and actually pivot your scope a little so it was level. Yeah. This is like you were showing it to us. Actually, we were outside videoing and whatnot and checking it out. And you can put it at any spot. It will be perfectly level no matter if your tripod's off a little, the terrain, all of that. It doesn't matter. It's just a real easy little rotation.

Super simple rotation. And it'll hold itself there too. Yeah. Even as heavy as like that 17 Pro Max we was using on there. It'll still hold it and won't rotate. So yeah, it's sweet. The dust cap too. Okay. So like I know it seems stupid and dumb, but it's not. So I would leave, at times I left the old phone scope, a little adapter that goes to say a ATX or whatever, an STX objective.

I would leave it on there, but then there was no dust cap. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. So you'd leave it on there. But now this has got like a little magnetic dust cap. You slap it on, you're good. It's good. It's a little more user friendly in keeping that mounted to the scope at all times. And so now if you left it mounted to the scope at all times, you can just slap it on. It's quick. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Real quick alignment when we're playing it out there. That's, I mean, you were right on everything just that fast. That fast. Yep. So I don't want to ruin it, but I think you guys should explain about the insert, the magnetic insert and how simple that is. And then also the price points, which is the cheapest in the industry. As far as what I've just seen, I haven't went on and Googled every little option there

is out there because there's plenty of companies that are doing them, including even some of the optic companies. But it just feels like that's a very affordable way to get into a magnetic phone scope. Yep. Yeah. And, you know, coming from small town, we've always, I've always been a consumer, right? So when my dad and I first started it, we wanted it to be user friendly and we wanted it to be affordable. And that's kind of why we built that two piece system. That way, if you get a new phone, you don't have to buy the whole kit again. And so that's kind of why instead of making people buy a whole new kit, we wanted to create a conversion kit that it would let, it's a modular system. However you want to attach, we can attach. If you want to go with a universal phone case, it'll work with a universal phone case.

If you want to go with our custom carbon fiber case, it'll work with custom carbon. If you want to go with the injected case, it'll work with the injected. We wanted to give users the options so that way they can build the system to how they want it to be. I feel it's important. And like you said, people know what they want and they want it now. So it helps out with that. But, and the feedback with being able to connect it really quick was also part of that. Well, I want that picture now. And granted, if we can't tell the animal to wait five seconds for us to hurry and set our system up, we've got to be ready to rock and roll. So Jason, let's switch to you for a minute. Do you want to just kind of somehow describe, because here we are in a podcast, describe, you know, how the magnet insert gets in, twists, locks, and how it actually, the system actually works. Yep.

So on the C3 adapter is what it's called that, you know, customers have had since 2010 or whenever they bought it. There'll be a piece, it's a three piece. The magnetic conversion kit is a total of three pieces. So it's got the part that would just like your phone, phone case prior to this, which is a quarter turn lock. It'll quarter turn lock onto that C3 adapter. And then we recommend just now leaving that on your spotting scope at all times. Because obviously with the mag, with the dust cap, it's going to just, when you're done with it, lock that on, leave it all day. And then on the phone side of it, there's a little flat disc. Obviously the users can't see it, but it'll just, same thing, quarter turn lock into your phone and leave it there. Forget it. Forget it's even there. It's there whenever you need to, whenever you need to use it.

And obviously we all use the carbon, the carbon case and the disc is on and off really easy. The disc on the plastic still does come on and off. You just have to pull the, pull the phone off of the optics. So with that, you're still getting complete use of your, your phone's flashlight and the three camera lenses. And if you're, if you're taking kill photos, I know, I know you like to use the wide angle lens when you're taking your kill, your kill photos, you can access that pretty, pretty quick and easy. Logan showed me how to use the 0.5. Logan told me they nicknamed it the Jason Carter.

You are going to get me fired. That's what you told me. Look, the animals I kill, you could have killed 1953 with flannel and you'd have said, holy shit. You know what I mean? Just teasing. Oh, I believe it. You gotta, you gotta, I haven't killed for a minute. I want to kill a giant and it's tough, we're in tough times for a second. That's true. But hey. You killed them all back in the day. If I kill, I did, I didn't, I didn't, no, I left no deer unattended. I'm sure. That's good. He definitely had bullets going his way. But back then it felt like it was a renewable resource. I'm not sure now. It feels like a very finite resource. It's very true. But anyway, no, if when I kill a two by three, you guys are going to think it's 42 inches.

I'll do it. You're going to use AI to make it. Jeez. Hey, not to bring it, but have you ever used AI to score deer? No. I haven't. Does it work? It'll scare you how close it is. Really? Really close. I don't know. Just like upload a picture to GPT or whatever? Are you serious? Upload a few pictures and say, hey, what is this score? It'll save you a lot of time, Wyatt. It'll frighten you. Yeah. You might be replaced. It might be replaced. Grok will probably choke it down. There's probably an AI that really works well. An AI book score, huh? Elon Musk will choke it down. He probably doesn't even have dead, won't even score dead animals. Who knows? Oh, he will.

Chad, it doesn't care. Eat every photo you give it. It's true. We uploaded photos. Didn't we upload photos on our way down? That billboard, yeah. Yeah, the billboard. What's this? It said, I do not know. And we were like, yeah, we don't blame you. Yeah, you got it. But anyway, so yeah, so it's really cool. It sounds complicated when you say, oh, it's a three-part system, this and that. It's really not. It's really not. And right now, you know, a lot of the customer support questions are everyone's thinking they need a whole new phone system and everything. And they don't. It literally will just convert what you already have over a magnetic case. And it's not a janky conversion. So what it is, you're selling that same system, right? So if they were to go, like, let's say I have whatever, let's call it an iPhone, whatever

it is, A. And I want a new system for iPhone A. You would sell me the same system that I would have already had. Correct. It would be the case, and you take the magnet, and you twist it in. It's in forever kind of a thing on whatever, right? On your optic side. And then the case is incorporated with the magnets, which are what? MagSafe? What did you call it? Yep. MagSafe. MagSafe magnets, yeah. Yeah. Which basically don't mess with the GPS or Onyx or making phone calls, things like that. Yep, exactly. And I was actually, just to touch on that, I was actually hunting this last fall, and the system was done. Molds were being made, POs were placed, and I was down hunting, and I pulled my phone out of my pocket. I was in an area that I'd never been before. I was struggling to find deer, so I went to a new area, and my Onyx maps could not find me.

I'm sitting here going, what the heck is going on? Pulled my disc off, found me just like that. Second I pulled my disc off, my Onyx knew exactly where I was. Well, come to find out, the polarity of the magnet was messing with the compass. So we had the magnet swapped, so called Cheston, said, hey, I messed up. Sorry, you spent all this money, but it's not an option. We got to change it. It won't work. So we ended up swapping the magnets of which side goes where, and then now you can have that disc on your phone, and it's not going to mess with your compass like it did before. Pretty awesome. You know, it just takes using that stuff to figure it out, you know what I mean, to make sure it's right. And you think that you're the only company that's ever done that? I mean, there's so many. That's what happens. That's what you do when you come out with new stuff.

And so you want it right, and it's right. You got it right. And I'm sure you guys do the same thing, you know, with your tripod. You're out, and you're like, we could make this one little adjustment, you know? Who would have thought this and this and this, you know? It's that infilled tax credit R&D that you have to go and do. It's what no one sees. It's what no one appreciates. The end consumer will never know or appreciate how much actually goes into something so simple. It's a lot better than taking a lot of product back. That's right. Tell Cheston, I just saved you a lot of money. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Hopefully in the long run, yeah. It's the way you frame things, you know? Yeah, exactly. Well, good. And so basically with any phone you're working with, with any optic you're working with, within reason.

I mean, maybe there's some obscure Japanese phone that we don't even know that's out there. Yeah, and for those, we would recommend either, hey, we have a build your own kit where, you know, we have a disc that you could glue on a case of your choosing or our universal adapter. Oh, I see. Go back to the glue days, which we did on cameras. Remember? Oh, yeah. And we get them there. We get calls, you know, not that often anymore because we try and do a better job. But we'll get, we'll get a call that some straight talk user has a phone that literally has no name. Like, and I'll just say, look, these are your two options. This is all I can do for you. I've got an Obama burner phone. Yeah. I would like to video with it. Exactly. It does have a camera. I think this is a camera. Yeah. The thing I noticed with that, the piece that goes on the phone, your phone itself is very thin. It's flat.

It doesn't protrude out at all. Yeah, it's almost flush. So when it's in your pocket, you don't even know the difference. Yep. Don't even know it's there other than the disc. And like with our carbon system, the disc just slides off it. It engages via the MagSafe magnet. Um, and then on the MagSafe magnet, again, obviously the users know that our, our carbon safe is all MagSafe compatible. Well, when you twist that, that piece into the disc, even if you have a plastic case, it'll now lock onto any MagSafe attachment. So if you had a little MagSafe magnet on your tripod that we sell, you can have your, your phone just right there, ready to rock, grab, throw it on your spotting scope. You don't have to set it in the dirt, um, things like that. And then being a modular system. So really, in my opinion, you use the term modular in the hunting, the hunting world.

Everyone goes straight to the Swarovski ATX, BTX, you know, so just similar to that, you can go from a spotting scope to the BTX, to the 65, to the 95, to whatever you want. Say you're going on a hunt. I hunt the, I hunt the desert a lot, lots of, lots of iron in the, in the rocks and the sand, things like that. Um, I won't use the magnetic system when I'm down there cause I don't want to deal with the constant rocks. Yeah. I've had it on, you know, just, you, you just end up with little pebbles and you know what I mean? Paraphernalia. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just one on your, you know, back, back when I had a, a magnetic Badlands bino harness, you know, you take it off, set it on the ground. Non-stop rocks. Think, think of that, you know, that was annoying, but think of it on your $5,000 spotting scope and you, you're like, oh, you know? So. Yeah.

So this gives you options with the same system. You just take the magnet out. Exactly. Exactly. Yep. It's modular. And you can twist just that magnetic piece off and clean it really quick and easy. That's why it's a flat slate piece. So yeah, that way if you do get some, it's easy to clean off. It doesn't stick in grooves. Yeah. So you want to talk about changing lenses a little bit? We can even, people that don't know about changing lenses, like, I don't know, like me, I don't necessarily, I don't use an app to change the cameras within my phone. I don't know. Yeah. Is it throw? Yeah. Whatever pops up, pops up. That's what you use. Like I don't even, like, right? So I mean, I dial in on my scope to 50 power and I zoom in to as far as it'll let me and I think that's all I got. Yeah. So I don't know. And that's how I, that's honestly how I use it too.

I don't very often go to the other lens. Because I feel like if it's five times, isn't that digital zoom? No. I don't know. If it switches, if you use five times and you don't switch to the other lens, it is digital zoom. Yeah. Okay. If you do switch to the other lens, it's optical zoom. And to switch to the other lens, I use an app. Most of the time, yes. Okay. So anyway, just talk, I'll just let you run with that. And then what you guys did to utilize all lenses. Yeah. So, and I'm just going to refer to our carbon series because it's the easiest to switch. All of our, all of our systems will, will switch between lenses. But on the carbon series, it's just a magnetic, the MagSafe disc in the back of the phone will slide right on the track. It'll start out on what we call your primary lens, which is the one you're using all the time. It's your 1X to 5X on most of the phones.

The new 17 Pro Max is actually an 8X, which is wild. But so yeah, it'll, it'll go back and forth. So if you're, if you're on an animal and you zoom in too far and your screen does go black, you can just switch over to that, to the lens right on the spotting scope. Just quicker. On the fly. Super quick. On the fly. Yep. And then when you're done and you shoot whatever you shot or you're walking out in the dark, you forgot your headlamp, you need your flashlight. The disc just pulls right off. You've got your flashlight. Walk out. If you go kill something, you need to take pictures, take the disc off so all your sensors aren't covered up. Good. Good to go. No problems. Yep. Yeah. I mean, how long did a flashlight last on a phone? Just think about all the hours you've had the light on. I've had my light on it in my pocket for quite some time before. Four hours. Five hours. Whatever.

Isn't it amazing the flash, how long that flash? Ever since I got this here, I don't, I don't use the phone light. What's that, Garmin? Garmin, yeah. I've heard these Garmin watches are no joke. They are no joke. It's the best $1,200 flashlight I've ever bought. And everyone I sell one to, they'll text me three weeks later and they'll say, I never thought I'd love a $1,000 flashlight so much. Tell me what model is it. Right now, the Fenix 8 Pro, I think is what they're on. This is a 7, but anyway, they are. We were down at another thing we learned in Texas. Friends of ours had a Garmin watch on and they love it. It's no joke. It wasn't that model. If you wear a watch, especially for a guy in the outdoors, there's nothing better, nothing that compares with it. Yeah, but I mean, who cares what your heart rate is? It is what it is. I don't even use it for that. I use it for the flashlight.

That's it. Flashlight and text. And to tell time, possibly. Yeah, yeah. I mean, telling time, I look at my phone, so I just got away from watches. Jason goes like this to the sun or something. In $13.53, the watch was extinct. And now that Garmin's bringing it back, Apple watches are coming back. So now it's cool to have a watch again. So my watch is at 15% right now and I still won't have to charge it for another one. Didn't they say 28 days? Week. I charge it once a month. What? He said 28 days or something. One time a month I charge this watch. So what else does it do? It'll do so much that I don't even touch on it. It's time to go to bed, sir. On my main screen, I've got obviously the date and time and elevation, calories burned for the day, heart rate, steps, and my battery life. There's 500 watch faces you can put on it. There's all these apps. Miles per hour? Driving? Locations?

I'm sure. Again, infiltrating every corner of your life. I'm a big fisherman. I've got a fishing app. It'll tell me how long I fished. What about the hunt? I want to know the high animal activity index. Will it tell me pretty quick? Probably fishing, right? I would imagine it's on there. When it's good to fish, it's good to hunt. I don't know. I would imagine it's all there. Like I said, this thing has... $1,200 and we're going to kill deer. Yeah. He'll at least be able to see you when you walk out. That's for sure. At night. There you go. Text. So you're answering text on there too? Yeah. You got your messages, text, weather. So people are like, oh, he's sophisticated looking. He's watched really... You got your... You're disengaged looking at somebody else's text. You got your sunset. So if you're not sure you're out hunting, you know, you can look at that. What legal shooting is. Yep.

And it goes off GPS. So it goes off of where you're at. Your location. So you can fight with the game of fish. Especially if you were to like screenshot that. Can you screenshot right there? Take a picture on your phone. Yeah. Be like, sir, I am in the right. I can't even see. It's got my stocks. It's got my stocks. Tells me how they're doing. Yeah. Are they doing all right? Today, not so much. No. What's the price of gold? I don't know what that is. Anyway. Expensive. Kind of interesting. You guys... I mean, this is why you guys are good at this, I guess, is what... Going off on a little tangent is all the geeky little stuff. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's making stuff like that so it's really cool. I think part of this phone scoping era, let's call it, is the speed. The speed of getting it before that animal leaves, goes over the hill so many times.

So many times when we're janking around and you don't get them on film and your buddies are like, well, it never happened then. You know? And you're like, no. It actually, like, I had him. I just didn't have him. Anyway, it's just kind of interesting. I wonder, too, I wonder how it would be like with Stabilized Spotter now, too, with some of the stabilized optics coming out. It's unreal, actually. It's going to help, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It'll help. And, you know, it also comes back to a lot, like, we were talking about draw odds earlier when we wasn't live and how hard it is to draw a tag nowadays. But going out with the phone scopes, catch and release hunting. I mean, when you go fishing, you release most of the stuff. So it still enables you to go out and have a good time, take pictures, and you're catching release.

It's like, the older I get, the funner that seems to get, too, which is crazy. Yeah. But I guess that's what I call myself. Yeah. Catch and release hunter. I've been catching and releasing a lot of stuff. That's another t-shirt. Man, we got two t-shirts. We do. That's a release hunter. My catch and release is Logie Bear's next trophy. That's right. I don't release nothing. I just catch. Catch and kill. We all went through that phase. It better not walk in front of me. Slay. Slay. Okay, third shirt. Slay. Good stuff. So let's see. Anything. Oh, let's talk about price point. Yeah. So tell me. For the conversion kit, you're going to be $55. I mean, Ruv, you can do it in generalities. Yeah. It's going to be right around $55, $60 for the whole conversion kit. Okay. So I can change mine from the old manual style, which is not that old, but a manual phone scoping,

whatever, gadget to a magnet phone scope, right? For $55, $60. Correct. With shipping tax and a few little things. Yeah. Shipping tax changes depending on where you're at. Yeah. You're probably $65. Whatever. Shipping and everything. And then off you go, and you've got state-of-the-art magnet phone scoping. Yep. Right. That, you know, hopefully you'll only have to buy one time. Like I said, you buy a new phone, it'll switch. You just pull it right out, put it into the new phone, and it'll- If the new phone's the same dimensions, or you might need another case or something. Yeah. You would need, you'd more than likely need a new case, but for the magnetic pieces themselves, you just pull them right out and put them right into the new- So you don't need any more magnet pieces. You have those until they wear out if they ever do. Yep. And lifetime warranty.

I don't even know if magnets wear out. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, magnets do lose their polarity. Yeah. Drop them, right? Wyatt comes to my office and plays with my magnets. I've told him for years. Quit throwing those around. Oh, the one- Yeah. You drop magnets, it loses its- Oh, really? He's always dropping them. Really? Are we talking the little magnets that go on the whiteboards? Yeah. He plays with them. It clicks them together. I like playing with them. I didn't know that was a problem. That's why I got him a fidget pen for Christmas. They make more magnets every day.

We're okay. We will buy you some more. Logan, can you write that down? Let's look at Devin some new magnets. Yeah, that'd be great. I mean, the life of those is a long- Oh. It's not like you drop it once they die. No. Long time. Years. Yeah. You know, one thing we should talk about, too, is our buyback program. Yeah. So, everybody asks, you know, like, oh, I got to update my phone. Well, the cool thing is, is we've got a buyback program on our website. You go, we'll give you credit towards your next phone case. Because at the end of the day, once again, coming back to the consumer mentality, you know, we want to try to make it as least painful as possible. But still make money. I mean, every business is out there to make money. You have to, yeah. So, yeah, you want to do that, but you also want to be consumer friendly. Yeah.

And we build a majority of the stuff here in Utah, too, which is cool to be able to- That's cool. Take, when we get the phone cases back in, we'll take them down to St. George and get them recycled, or depending on what kind of shape they're coming in. And most of the time, we'll just, if they live a long ways away, we'll just be like, hey, break it in half, send us a picture. That way you're not paying shipping to get it back to us, and we're paying shipping. That's actually, he doesn't know. That's actually how we only do it now, is it's only uploaded through our website. We don't even, they recycle it. We don't take them back unless they want to send it back, but we don't require it anymore. You just give them a little- They upload a photo of it. If they cut the case in half, if they upload a photo of it, say an iPhone 15 case, they'll get $20 credit.

If they cut the case in half and upload a photo of it, then they get $25 credit. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yep. Dang. Yeah, that's interesting. It's interesting you say that. I had a SIG range fighter, an 8K, and it went bad. It was actually, took a drink and like two foot of water or whatever. I was like, man, I can't believe it wasn't more waterproof than that. But anyway, they were like, yeah, just upload a, you got to cross through, put an X through the serial number. Serial number. Yep. And then upload that. And then up came a Gen 2. And they overnighted you one. Yeah, like an 8K Gen 2. Yeah. I was like, what? Yeah, they're really good. And so anyway, then you start to realize how much profit's in electronics. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was nothing to them. They didn't care. They were cool. And just to touch on the warranty, you know, we have a lifetime warranty.

If something breaks, a customer literally just emails us a photo of it with their address, and we mail them a new one. No questions asked. Wow. Hey, an important thing is, is that the 800 number, they get someone that speaks English too. That's important. That is important. That is. They speak like fluent English. But the accent starts to, I want somebody with a normal accent. Yeah, exactly. I don't even like an off accent. I know, I love everyone. I'm not saying I don't love everyone. Well, what he's saying is they talk to me. I want to talk to somebody with our accent, whatever that looks like. You're already frustrated. Have you ever wondered, Devin, what kind of accent do you have? I don't know. Everyone always says far. You're normal. You're the normal accent. No, I've had people tell me, where are you from? Spanish Fork? Spanish Fork. Obscure Utah.

So anyway, well, cool stuff. Okay, so let's talk about availability. Yeah, so right now it's a pre-order. On our website, it's posted as late spring. They are being assembled as we speak right now. Okay. So I'm hoping by the end of April, we have all the back orders out, and they're just rolling off the shelves. And they're being assembled here in Utah? No, they are not being assembled here in Utah. Somewhere else. Yeah. Okay. Just hoping you guys were continuing to support these big families we got. Yeah. That's right. I spent all day at the Engineers down in St. George yesterday. They're plenty busy. I promise you that. Good. With other stuff we're coming out. After COVID, it's hard. It seems like these local shops are working. Machine shops just died. Yeah. Yeah. They're looking. They're available to help you? No. You mean?

They used to be just, we could do as much as we wanted through St. George, and then COVID hit, and then they picked up some other jobs because other shops were closing down. I see. I see. It's hard to find. There's a lot of dynamic going on with that. Yeah. It was crazy. Devin made me listen to a podcast about COVID on the way home from Texas. Geez. What didn't we do? I don't know. We had a lot of time. I hope there's a few things you didn't do. Well, there was plenty we didn't do, but there was plenty we did that we don't need to do again.

Anyway, good stuff. Well, geez. So, we got some of it. Then, what if they need a new system? There's people out there that just need an entire system, start to finish. Yep. So, start to finish, you know, I'll just touch on what we have to offer. On our website, it's called our original system, which is our plastic injection molded. And that case is going to run the customer $65. Okay. And then the optic adapter for whatever optics you have. And on our website, it breaks it down really easy for you. So, the step one is going to be selecting your phone. You know, most consumers nowadays are Apple for everyone else. I'm sorry. They're still on there, but I'm sorry for you. You're probably hearing it from your family members as well. Your hunting friends. Yeah. So, you know, Apple, from the top, once you click on Apple, it breaks the phones down, most popular to least popular.

It just so happens that it's basically newest to oldest. So, we'll say 17 Pro Max. You click on that. It's going to pop up and ask you, do you want the original system or do you want the carbon system? Touch on the difference real quick. And the difference is basically the carbon was made to be an everyday leave on your phone kind of thing. And then with the MagSafe compatibility, it's thin and light. It's slimmed down.

It's got, you know, a charge port for your, so you don't get lint and stuff in your charger. Cover. A little charger. Free-floating phone case. Free-floating. Both of them are actually free-floating, the plastic and the carbon. But the carbon, you can go between camera lenses quicker and easier than you can the original. It slides. It slides over. The plastic, you do have to pull off the spotting scope, slide the disc over, and put it back on. I see. So, go with carbon. Go with carbon, you know. And I always tell people, you know, most of the time hunters, go with carbon. I get a lot of customers that are just going to Yellowstone once a year. And I'll be like, look, I would love to sell you another $100, but I'm not that guy. You don't need it. You're going to use it five days a year. Just being honest. Just being honest. Yep. That's how we do business.

So, the entire system, you're 60 plus? Yep. For the original, you're $33 for the adapter and $65 for the case. So, you're $88. Usually, about $95 out the door. With the magnets? That's not with the magnets. Okay. The magnets is an additional $50 to that. That's what I was saying. Yep. $55, $60 to that. Okay. All right. And the carbon? The carbon case? Carbon case is $150. Same adapter, $33. So, you're $80. Plus the magnets. $180 plus the magnets. So, $230, $240? Which is, I mean, less than the industry standard, I would say. I would say. Or less than competitors out there. And it really comes back to, like, if you're new to digiscoping and you just want to try it, you could buy the bare-bones system and then, say, a month down the road, you do want to be a hair quicker with the magnets. All you have to buy is the $55, $60 kit and you're running. You don't have to buy it all together.

The old case, I have one that was a little bit bulky, but, man, when I would drop my phone, it never broke. You know what I mean? Like, there were some positives to that. Yeah. You know? Actually, a buddy from Delta, we were out collecting trail cameras and he had his phone in his lap, climbed out of his truck to get a gate, got back in his truck and ran his, there was snow on the ground, ran his phone over. About an hour later, he realized he had lost his phone, goes back right on the tire track in the snow, had run his phone over, didn't have a mark on it. Wow. You know when you said trail cameras, this is weird. It just brought back out a dream last night. And you know what I did? Let's hear it. I'm not going to tell you who I was with. We ran a bunch of cameras in Arizona. Like, we went and set up a bunch of cameras. And then afterwards, you're like, I shouldn't have done that.

No, and then we went to collect and we realized we're the only cameras up still. And why was that? Because it's illegal. And I had the laws reversed in my mind. I was like, yeah, we could run cameras till August 1 in Arizona. No problems. Yada, yada. And we went and ran a bunch of cameras. And then how bad I felt. And then it was like, on our first check, like, do I turn myself in? Or do I take him down and run?

You know what I mean? Like, what do you do? Jason Carter running cameras in Arizona. I don't know. It was just one of those things. Anyway, now I'm feeling a little weird. Like, I hate that dream right now. That's funny. There was a lot of stress. No wonder I was tired this morning. Yeah, you were stressed out all night. I was. It caused me a lot of stress. If you had one of them watches, it'd give you a sleep score. And it'd be like, not good. It would. I would have said you dreamt about cameras. Putting cameras up after August 1 or before August 1 in some obscure state you're not supposed to be in. Just wake up and says, did you commit a crime? I don't know why I was thinking that. I just think, you know, keeping track of all these laws and changes. And you know what I mean? It's okay in this state, but not okay in that state.

And New Mexico's the golden state because you can still run cameras year-round. I don't know. It's kind of like those dreams where you're back in college and you totally forgot you had to go to school and you missed everything or something. Montana, you can't use radios. I mean, you know what I mean. Sometimes they change their camera law up there. How do you do that? Like, literally, how do you keep, like, obviously, you're keeping guys up with the entire western states. Like, do you delegate it out and say, you got Montana, you got Wyoming? No, we all do it all. These guys check our work. We put the initial stuff on paper and then everybody checks and makes sure. But we all have to sign off on everything that goes out because you have to consult on it. So, like, if somebody just, Gomer Pyle writes it that isn't even in the office, and we're

consulting off it and we don't agree with those comments because we've had 14 other people call and say that unit's different than what you think. You know what I mean? That doesn't really work. And so, you know, not to let everybody on the inside too close. But anyway. But, like, the laws. Oh, the laws in general? Like, the constant changing. We're just into it. You're just into it. Yeah. We don't keep track of. And for those who are going out of state, you better read. Better double, triple check. Yep. Before you go. Yeah. It's just, you know, 14 stamps later and you forgot this one obscure stamp. I don't know. I have those kind of nightmares. Yeah. Yeah. Like, well, Mr. Carter, your conservation stamp, you didn't buy one. You know what I mean? And you went across state lines with this elk. Yeah. That is now ours. You know? I don't know. At least you said elk and not deer.

I'm proud of you. I don't even know. I'm surprised there's two bulls hanging in here, honestly. What are you talking about? Yeah. I guided those when I was a baby. Before you knew better? They're amazing. I've killed several 380 bulls, you guys. Come on. I know, but you always make fun of me for hunting elk. I like them. They feed the family well. There you go. Jenna won't eat deer. Don't blame her. I don't know. They are gamey, but I don't tell her. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's right. Like, I agree with her, but I don't tell her. Oh, yeah. You never agree. All right. Well, you guys got any other questions? I think we pretty well covered it. Cheston, why don't we end with a story? It seems like you always have a story. You're kind of a storyteller guy. Let me tell the story. Maybe with Jason here we can get the true and real story. Oh, man.

We want the truth and nothing but the truth.

I'll let Jason tell the story of Colorado this year then. It was wild. So, we both had Missouri whitetail tags that started basically the same weekend that Colorado third season ended. So, you just used the tag and went, right? Yeah. So, he had a Colorado third season tag.

Real fun hunt every year we go out. It's just a blast. It's what we look forward to every year, honestly. Just seeing our buddies from, we got buddies from across the whole country that that's where we hunt with them every year. We can plan on seeing them in Colorado every year. So, we're out there and we went, we left here on Monday. So, three days into the Colorado opener.

Left here, got out there, started hunting, found a couple good bucks. Obviously, you know, it always shakes out they're on a piece of property that, you know, maybe they'll jump, maybe they won't. Well, about, I think it was, what was it, the third day? I can't remember. I think it was, we were really wanting to get to Missouri so we didn't have to kill ourselves driving another 20 hours that, you know, to make it for the opener. And, anyway, it was either, I think it was, I think it was Thursday night. But, there had been a buck that we'd been watching and he's a good buck. Nothing too crazy, but a good buck. And, he was on this just little tiny section that we couldn't hunt, like tiny, tiny. And, him and all of his does are just right on the fence line. But, Chester being from Beaver County. Well. Those no trespassing signs are welcome.

That's the key word is I'm from Beaver, not Miners. See, we got some Minersville boys here, so that doesn't apply to me. No, we have other things that we do.

All right, keep going. Anyway, these deer, we looked down at them for like an hour, went and checked this other spot, didn't see nothing. And, like I said, we really wanted to get burning down the oil to Missouri. And, the deer were calm, you know, everything was fine. I was like, they're gonna, they're gonna, there's nothing here for them. They're gonna jump that fence. So, we just had a new, his brother had just built him a new gun that we got a, we got a really good load worked up for. And, anyway, I was like, well, let's shoot him at, you know, 400 yards, 500 yards rather than 80 when he, when he does jump just to, you know, do this gun a little justice. We can phone scope it, whatever. So, we, we pull up the hill a little ways and what I thought would be 400 yards, I think, was only 300 or 280 or something. But, we got set up. I got the phone scope out. I'm sitting there.

We're hunting on the, it's evening and we're hunting on the opposite side of the sunset. So, it even gets darker prior to legal and especially me and him. We just, we can't see when it gets super low light. And, we're watching this deer and his does walk right up to the fence and they stick their head through the fence and they're eating on the side that we could shoot them on and standing on the side that we can't. And, I'm like, maybe they're not gonna jump. And, if you brain shoot them and you have a blood trail from the, right? Ossifer. Yeah. He was on the side. Look. And, we, there's the blood trail going to the private. Yeah. And, you can have a retrieve, right? Yeah. That's funny. I've never heard that one. I never heard that one either. That's some miners real tight. That's right. That's, yeah. Sometimes you gotta be creative.

And, this buck, he's just, he's just standing there watching over his does. A little buck comes in, he runs him off, and he's now 100 yards into the piece. And, it's getting that light where him and I really just, just can't see. And, he kind of turns, I'm about 5 feet behind him, 10 feet behind him. And, he's like, I'm, I'm, he's like, I got maybe a couple more minutes. And, I was like, well, if it expires, it expires. We'll go back to camp, you know? And, he gets back on the gun. And, I hear, I just hear this noise. And, we're in this open, kind of, kind of, not burned, but open, the quakies. You know, there's no leaves on them or anything. And, I just hear kind of this heavy breathing. And, I'm like, what the heck is that? And, I look to my right. And, out of the thicket, 80 yards away, here come just this. Stud. This stud chasing a doe. And, I have 14 power binos. And, I throw him up.

And, he's running, like, he's dogging this doe, running straight at us. You're using cigs. Yes. Tell me they're no joke. They are no joke. Who doesn't use cigs, do they? I've actually, I loaned them to a buddy in Arizona. He's got them right now, testing them out. And, I've been having to use my saguaros. And, I'm going nuts. Because, hand holding them, I just. It's harder. It's harder. You don't realize. Until you use them, you don't realize how shaky you are. That's it. You do not realize how shaky you are. When I went from cigs to hand holding down in Texas, I was like, I suck. These feel like they're 100 pounds and I'm, like, shaking to hold them or something. And, I get my spotter out half the time I used to. I used to get it out to check what I was looking at. Now, with being stable, you know, you basically know what you're looking at. All right. So, moving forward. Anyway.

You've got to stop. And, Cheston's still on the gun. He has no idea. And, I throw my binos up and all I see is front forks and mass. And, I go, just like this. Wasn't quiet about it at all. I go, hey, Cheston, shoot that one. And, he goes, what? Turns around, looks at me pointing. And, I'm pointing. I'm pointing. When I moved, the doe saw me. She's about 30 yards at this point. On his line. On, I mean, running us over. Wow. Like an elk. And, the doe turns downhill just barely. And, he goes, what? Turns around, looks. And, the gun's on a tripod. We were standing. We were in real tall grass. And, he turns. And, I said, the back one. And, he goes, boom. Shoots it at like 10 feet. What? This deer goes stumbling through, down, dies like 30 yards down the hill. The grass was, the grass hit him right in the belly. So, he's like, did I shoot the right one? I go, yep.

And, he goes, well, what is it? I go, I have no idea. That's the scariest sea killer I've been chasing. I have no clue. He turns ghost white. Ghost white. And, I'm like, well, he's laying down there. Let's go, let's go find out. He's like, well, you go first. I'm like, well, what if he's still alive? You have the gun. Yeah. And, I'm like, I'm pretty sure he's dead. You lay weight him. I don't even know if he looked through the scope. I honestly have no idea. All I remember was seeing him turn the deer was from maybe a little further than the corner of the office. And, we walked down there and find the buck. And, he's laying, obviously, one horn in the ground, one horn out. The grass is just thicker than it can be. And, I go, that's a good buck. I said, pick him up. He's like, no, you pick him up for all I know. He only has one horn. So, I go over there and I grabbed him.

And, it was a big buck that was on the place quite a ways away that we couldn't hunt. Had just come over. Those people hate you right now. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, you shot Freddie Lump Lump. That's right. They've been following for the last four years. He ended up being about a 185. What? Four by four. Just mass. I'll show you some pictures. He was 180. 188. You can airdrop one of his Mac right here. No, we can't be doing that. Come on, let me keep one. You've already seen it. I ran into Logan not too long after. It's a pretty sweet buck. Is it? I see that thing.

Jeez. That's a solid. Yeah, his mass was real good. He needed another year. Where was this? So when he says kill that deer, you just listen. Yeah. Isn't that you mix? He had told me a couple days prior, like, if you tell me, like, I'm not as bad as I used to be. I still get excited. But I've toned her down a little bit. I walked up to a couple two by threes. Had to use the .5 one too many times. Yeah. But he goes, if you tell me to shoot it, I'll shoot it. And that's basically what happened. We were going to shoot this other buck that was not this big and ended up shooting this buck. We get on the radio, call our buddies over, and they come over and they're like, you got him? I was like, yeah, but it's not the deer you think we shot. We were all just super excited. Good time. So far. There's people that weren't going to apply to Colorado this year because for whatever

reason, they're going to hear this story and they'll be applying. You know, it's a cool thing about Colorado is you just don't know what you're going to find. Yeah. So how's that? Are you guys, like, recommending applying for the point change? Is it next year or two years? 2028. 2028. We've talked about it a little bit. It's like you just don't know. I mean, obviously, the natural thing is there's going to be half the tags in the preference draw. Yeah. And so of what there normally is. So you think it's going to be tougher to draw. Some cases, that's going to be the case. It'll be tougher. But there's some cases you're going to, it's going to be easier and somebody's going to skate in easy because now you just don't know what hunter preferences are going to look like. True. Like, what are you going to do with two points? Would you do 44? Because you might get it.

Or would you do a, you know, some cool four season? Yeah. You know what I mean? It's true. Options. Or are you going to go ahead and go for something that's just easy to draw that you've always done or whatever, you know, or whatever, right? And so what's a guy with 10 points going to do? And it depends on what his schedule is this year. If he's full and he's like, well, I would just really take something really cool. But how do you know what thousands and thousands of mental preferences, hunter preferences are going to look like? You know what I mean? Yeah. It'll take some time before those establish. Yeah. And then I always look at like what, like the point levels that are required. It's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If it says 10, guys with seven don't apply. You know what I mean? It's true.

And because they don't think, or they don't, you know, you don't really see a huge dip. Now, once in a while you do. When there's really low tag numbers, like on four seasons, you saw a huge variation because there's like two tags. Well, if two or three people opt out, all of a sudden it went from 15 points to six. And it's because there's no tags. And so just a couple of different applicants move and do something different or do points only changes that whole. Makes a difference. Changes those odds like crazy. Yeah. So there's a few places that that happens. But generally on a third seasons, it's pretty consistent. This is what this unit requires generally. So your first year is going to be interesting. That's going to set the bar. Your first year, when we look back at what the odds are going to be of 2028 for the 2029

season, then you're going to say, OK, 61 took this or 21 took this or 55 took this, you know, and then people will apply accordingly. And then those will settle in, you know, and then you'll get a little bit better plan. I don't know. What do you think, Wyatt? I kind of agree with that. It's just kind of the unknowns going into it. I mean, guys that, you know, normally would say, hey, I'm going to hunt, let's say, like 35 second this year because I don't have, I have a point. Kind of do I'm shy of 35. They're going to look at it and say, hey, maybe I'm going to throw in for a third season, the better tag. And just kind of try to upgrade and draw better tags than what they normally would because there is a random aspect to the drawing. Yeah. It's like a hybrid never worked for nonresidents because a hybrid only works if there's a quota available kind of a thing.

And so it never really worked. It did on antelope. We had some nonresidents trying to, but never did on deer and elk. And so anyway, it's kind of like this hybrid on steroids. You know what I mean? Yeah. The Utah system, basically. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, we ourselves are going to be wondering what to do. Right? What are you going to do, Cash? When 2028 comes, what are you going to do? You know, are you going to go for that really cool special opportunity that you've never able to draw before? Yeah. Never dreamt. Exactly. You just, it's going to be, it's going to be a big gamble that first year of, I think a lot of guys are going to see the green flag of, I can draw, I mean, I have the potential to draw someone that's been taking 25 points. And I have five. I will say, you know, the lion's share of the people out there, the mentality is use

them now because this system change is going to be tougher. Okay. So what you have is the general public, the entire Western hunting industry thinks that way. And so right now you're going to see some point creep because people are thrown in, assuming it's going to be all this old terrible system. And I'm not so sure it's going to be that terrible. So, but, but for now, because everybody's thinking that and people are being told that and whatnot, it's going to happen. And you're going to see some point creep in 2026, 2027 in prep for 2028. There's been a lot of calls on that lately. Yeah. And they want to burn them. And that's great. Where were you 15 years ago? You should have been burning them way before now. We're good with them. You should have hunted Colorado five times. Yeah. Let's go do it. Let's, let's go. Let's be going often, you know, and that's the general consensus.

But now moving forward, I guess, Cheston, if you had other hunts and other places, other states and whatnot, you'd be like, man, I'd be cool. I would love a 44 tag or something cool that I've never hunted before. Not saying you haven't. I don't even know. But like, or something that you weren't able to draw. Now you have a chance. And so that's cool. Yeah. You know, that's interesting. Change is always, change always creates some opportunity somewhere. It's true. You're going to have some weird stuff that people are, and you don't know why or how that's, what's shaping that. And so it's kind of fun. Change is good. That's what we thrive on here a little bit. Anytime you go from 20% non-resident tags down to 10% non-resident tags, that's not a fun change. No. I don't like that. No. No. It's a tough one.

You know, shed hunting rules for non-residents, you know, go after the residents or whatever. You know, those, those kind of changes aren't fun.

Bobcat restrictions in Nevada when pelt's are at an all-time high. That's not so fun, is it? You know. So there's some restrictions on non-residents that aren't fun. But some of these changes that are just changes in systems, not all of them are all that bad. And this will be interesting. This is an interesting one that affects dang near everyone. Most everybody is a mule deer hunter. Even if you hunt sheep and elk and all the things. Most everyone is a mule deer hunter. And if you're a mule deer hunter, you're hunting Colorado or getting points where you should be. Yeah. So this change will be interesting. Well, it sounds like you guys are on top of it, so that's cool. Well, I mean. You convinced me. You guys are persuasive. Probably had a bad dream about it a couple nights ago. Those things cause stress.

I've been dreaming about this magnetic system since it was a thing having nightmares about it. Yeah. How many hours sleep do you get a night? Check your watch. Me? I think I got, well. And then, and then what do they call it, Devin? Wasn't it like how you judge the quality of sleep? Like it rates the quality of sleep. So what's cool with the Garmin watch is it gives you like a body battery, which Apple's now doing. Our watch has been doing it for years. So it's like, oh, it's like your phone's charged, like you're at 88% today. Well, it's a bad day when my phone tells me I'm at 12% and I got a 10 mile hike ahead of me. But guess what? Nah, we still do it, right? Yeah, we still do it. Because it's another week. You don't have to charge for another week, right? I mean, body battery. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Body battery. Yeah. You're going to have to slow down. What do you mean?

We're going to have to get that whiteboard. We're going to have to draw this. What do you mean drawing the body battery? What is he talking about? It just rates how well you slept versus how much you've exerted yourself. Is that what it is? Yeah. So like my body is operating on 12% instead of 44%. You know what? And then I contend, you know what I contend? That that's self-fulfilling prophecy. You mentally think that you're on your left foot. 100%. And you suck that day. Yeah. He was correct. And you make it happen. Whereas if I don't ever know, I'm at 100%, man. That's the truth. Ignorance is bliss. Now, I know I had a weird dream last night. Caused me some stress. But, you know, I'll get over it. And I'm going to operate 100% from the latter half of today. It's time I get over it. That's funny. That's the truth, though. Every day in college. It does.

You look at your watch to decide if you're going to have a good day or a bad day. I tell my wife the same thing. And she's like, you just need to take it off. And I was like, no, I want to know. I want to know if I'm operating properly. Yeah. I mean, for crime and he's sakes. That's funny. I took some NyQuil last night. But I slept nine hours last night. Holy cow. You're ready to sleep. I haven't slept nine hours. Your body battery is 100%. Every other day was six. Three days combined I might have gotten nine hours. Yeah. When you get old, you don't sleep. You guys know that? Like old guys don't sleep. I've heard that. I lay awake. I'm starting to feel it. I don't know if they're scared to die or what. But, I mean, I'm not scared. Whatever. Well, and right now it's softball season. I'm watching game film trying to make plans. Are you? Yeah, I was doing that last night.

We've got a pretty good game. Is that what you're into? Like, tell us what you're into. What are you into? I've always been into baseball, but I love. So, I coach, assistant coach high school. So, I'm all right now and love it. Yeah. Just taking the number system and kind of like putting together like, okay, where's this person going to hit? How do I need to shift? You're playing chess with people. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. Money ball. Yeah. It's like, okay, if I make this shift over, what's the odds that she's going to hit it to that side and stuff? That's really cool. It's pretty fun. Yeah. Wow. Got a pretty good game on Saturday. No kidding? Getting ready for it, yeah. Yeah. Number one team in the state. So, we've got to figure out how to take them down. Who is it? Number 14. There you go. Duchesne. Did your watch have any suggestions on how to make that happen? No.

It probably would if he set it up. It probably would, but. I guarantee there's a widget for it on there. The fun is to try to figure it out yourself. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's. Is coach on his full body battery? Yeah. Is his body battery full? No, coach is at 12% today. Yeah. Coach is going to suck.

All right. I'm over this conversation right now. I don't know why. It gives me anxiety. Electronics. Not only are they infiltrating your life and giving you suggestions for Lysol, they're telling you where your body battery's at. Charge my body battery. I was running low on Sunday. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we were. Yeah. We were traveling a lot. My watch will. I will say I have been stressed out a couple times to where my watch will literally beep at me and say, hey, take a second. Chill out. Because. So what do you do? Tell it. Like, let's just say Logan. Logan would have to come in and say, boss, it's telling me I got to go walk down the street. I need a 25 minute break. Yeah. And I'm like. Well, he'd have to be there in order for me to walk. Yeah. So that's why I use Logan. I'm not using you guys. I don't know your relationship well enough. Would you give me that break? No.

I don't care about that stupid watch.

Girl, look up, son. Get back in there. What do you think we did when we were young? I don't know what you guys did. You guys are all messed up now. Yeah. But you know if you went and asked your dad, hey, I need a 25 minute break. You're working on the lawn. He's going to tell you no. Get back to work. Yeah. He's a therapist, too. He should care about that stuff. Well, his day job, he cares for everybody else besides you guys, I'm sure. It's like, you'll be just fine. There's no caring left at the end of the day. There's no therapist that's normal. I'm going to say that.

He's probably the closest to normal. I'll be honest. He's decent. He's decent. Anyway. You know, I will say, though, down there in Texas, just one last little thing. We're taking pictures of Devin. He smashed in animal sorts. It was awesome. Not to talk about it too much yet. And we were taking pictures, and my phone temperatureed out, and it was not in the dash. It was in my pocket or in my hand. And it temped out. You know what I mean? It had to be the UVs or something, because mine did the same thing. I was filming. I was filming this Ram, and it was struggling. I've never had that my whole life. And then taking pictures, it put a weird hue. It's like it changed the... I don't know. It's happened to me twice. It's springtime going to summer fast, and I don't know... It was 90s. Yeah, it was 90s, but it felt like it might as well have been 130. So it probably was a UV.

I mean, you're taking winter boys up here in Utah. True. Winter. My phone felt the same thing. It's like, whoa. Yours went completely black, didn't it? It went completely black with the temperature thing on it. And I'm like... It's like it turns the brightness down so low, you can't even see your screen. Yeah. I don't know. It was just a rude awakening to summer. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yep. It's getting to be lake days. It's... It's dead. I went to Lake Powell over the weekend, so... You did? Yeah. Fishing was good. What? Water's low. Water is low. Yeah. I went and had... So I like to get launched through the executive ramp over at Antelope, so that way you don't have to go through all the slow, and by the time you pay them, literally... See how Cheston rolls? It's the same price as burning fuel, and it saves you four hours of your life, right? So...

But they park your truck for you, right? Yeah. They'll just put you in the water. That's what bothers me. It's like valet. I hate that. Well... Like some janky dude. You can't even launch your boat. And they're parking your trailer for you, and then they're going through your console and everything. Hey, four hours more of fishing time? Go for it. What about all the concealed weapons and all the things? You don't have them in there. Okay. I don't know. I mean, you can't take them on the lake either, so... Really? You're not supposed to. What if you need to protect yourself?

We'll just quit talking about that. All right. But anyways, fishing was great. Was it? And... Yeah. Bass fishing was off the hook. Yeah. The water temps, we got into some mid-60 water temp already. Wow. I mean, a lot of it was down in the 50s, but when you find into it, yeah, it was good. It was good. It was good. Awesome. Minersville Reservoir on Sunday was 55. Wow. And it's usually right now like 39. Wow.

That's wild. Yeah. We're in wild times. It's crazy. We're in wild times. All right, guys. Well, thanks for coming. We appreciate you. Awesome product. We're excited. What are we talking? Like 45 days-ish? Yeah. So hoping to have all the everything out and all the back orders out and just shipping normal end of April. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. That is about 45 days. Yeah. We're going to need our stuff. Yeah. Like soon. We'll send it over on the Napa truck for you guys. Logan wants to film all the bucks that have shipped. Oh, yeah. I want to see those like little... I don't even know what they're called. He needs his for the lake we were just talking about. Yeah. He does have a boat or at least his family bought a boat for me. Best boat they've ever bought. It's a great boat. All right. Moving on. Okay. Well, sounds good. Again, thanks for coming. Thank you for having us. It's awesome.

Great product. We're buying it. It's legit. Appreciate it. Yeah. Maybe throw a plug on where to reach at or to order. Yeah. So phonescope.com. For all the listeners, go ahead and use promo code EPIC360 and we'll have a discount on there for you guys too. That's awesome. And if you want to plug our phones up and talk to Jason... 800-790-4480. Okay. And you can text that number as well. Oh, really? You can text the 800 number? Everyone's into texting nowadays. Yeah. And that comes to your cell phone? Mm-hmm. That 800 number comes to your cell phone? Yeah. I probably have it. Yeah, look. There's another work call right there coming to my cell phone. Come on. Come on. As we speak. He's very engaged. Okay. 800 numbers coming to cell phones. Dude, do you have a second cell phone? You need to have a life. I don't. I need... I probably need a second cell phone.

But a guy with nine hours of sleep, he's fine. Hey, he's good. He's fine. He's good. Load him every work call. That's right. That guy can handle it. All right. And then phonescope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E. S-K-O-P-E.com. Yep. And then Epic360? Epic360. I like it. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic-approved outfitters and members-only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas.

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