EP 385: The 2026 March Madness Hunt Giveaway and The New Colorado Draw System

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Check us out at epicoutdoors.com.

Hey, everybody. Adam Bronson, Jason Carter, John Peterson. Logan, how are you? Doing good. All right. I like to hear it. So, everybody, we did a March Madness giveaway. Bronson, this was coined by you. Pretty awesome. Wow. It's kind of the month taking care of itself, doesn't it, John? Yeah. I mean, anything in March is called March Madness. But you also don't want to get sued for calling it March Madness. But then you realize everybody has a March Madness. Yes. It is. Right? So, we got to have one. All right. We threw one together, and it went by quick. Before it started, it was over. I was like, geez, Jason, we got so fast. It was some good odds, best odds we've ever had in one of our drawings, I will say that. Such good odds, it was a little touch and go on it. But, hey, we're going to get more. The winners have been found. Yeah. We have drawn the winners. Yeah. And pretty awesome.

We're going to get them on the phone right now. So, Bronson, we're giving away an Alaska moose. Alaska moose, I don't know what it is, but it's like the most coveted species out there, other than maybe a thin-horned sheep and maybe a rucker and maybe – okay. No, I'm just teasing. Alaska moose is truly one of those sought-after species right now. Well, it is. And the cost of fully outfitted hunts have gone up so much. It's – for maybe a lot of people, this is maybe the only way they're going to get one. Yeah. Just like winning a doll sheep hunt or something anymore. They're just a different price point. And this is a good one. Last year, you know, these guys are killing 70-inchers in the same spot. It's no joke. It's a legit hunt. Yeah, very, very – So, for 65-plus, you know, maybe better, September 10 to 20, the Hidden Alaska Guide's an Outfitter. So, anyway. I like it.

Yeah, very few – takes very few clients killing big moose. And it was just one of those things we were like, this is kind of a no-brainer. Let's see if we can't grab a spot and give it away. So, anyway. September 10th to the 20th, prime dates, $40,000 hunt. Ten days in Alaska. Make a call. And these hunts, Bronson, 2026. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? These aren't – we're going to wait 14 years and see if you end up going on the hunt. No, these are happening this year. Yeah. All right. So, Colton Barton, we're giving you a call. We're going to give this to you if you'll answer the phone. Here we go.

It's an odd time to call somebody on a Thursday afternoon. Yeah. So, it's going to be interesting. Wow. Go ahead, Jason. You got the details right in front of you better.

Hello. Hey, is this Colton? It is. Colton Barton, right? Yes. All right. Jason Carter at Epic Outdoors. We got John Peterson, Adam Bronson here, Logan Marshall. You know we were having a March Madness Hunt giveaway, right? I do. You think – have you ever been lucky in your life?

You there? Well, yeah. But you ever want to – I'm kind of freaked me out right now. You ever want to hunt? You want to hunt? No. You want to hunt. And I don't want to commit you to memory. On which ones you applied for. But you've got the Alaska Moose Hunt.

You are kidding me. No. No, no, no. No. You got it. Oh, my God. Yeah, we drew it. We drew your name. How's that sound? How's that sound?

Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. And I – Pretty awesome. I've never been so excited for my hunt plans to be completely blown up. Oh. Our trio. Because I've been trying to figure out what I'm doing this fall. Yeah. Now you know. And I'm stoked that they're blown up. Yeah. Well, you better keep September 10th to 20th wide open. And probably a few days on either end. Unbelievable. I cannot believe this. It's awesome. So $40,000 hunt, Alaska – Hidden Alaska Guides and Outfitters 10 days up there. And that's this year, obviously. You know that. September 10th to the 20th, 100% success. I mean, I guess it could change. But I don't see that happening. I, for the most part, can see that you're going to come home with a giant bull. So it's pretty awesome. I can assure you there is nothing that's going to stop me from being there. As long as I'm breathing, I will be there in September. There we go.

We like it. All right. So we're working on – I can't believe it. I appreciate it so much, guys. Yeah. No, and we appreciate the support as well here at Epic. We'll get an email out to you as well as the outfitter. And that'll be your official notification with both of you. And it'll hook you two together. And then off you go. We've already paid for it, by the way. So it's paid for and done. You'll have to get yourself there and home. But other than that, it should be – Not a problem. Pretty straightforward. He already said it'd be there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm here. Trains, planes, and automobiles, however – whatever it takes. Man, you guys have made – this has made my year for sure. Well, it's awesome. I can't believe it. Pretty fun. Well, whatever's left for you to alter any application plans, you might want to go amend a few things if you have to. I'm on it. Congratulations. I'm on it.

All right. Thanks so much, guys. I appreciate it. Congratulations. Thanks, Colton. All right. Bye-bye. Bye.

One of those. You know when your computer freezes and you get that little spinning rainbow wheel? Yeah. That was his brain when you asked him if he'd ever been there. I mean, it was there. Hello? Hello? I love that. It's awesome. The pause was great. All right. So let's give away the mule deer hunt. Mule deer? All right. This is Colorado mule deer with Alex Nestor, ECO. Can't say ECO and then outfitters because you already said the O, right? So you can't say ECO, outfitters. But anyway, ECO. I think that's what they did. I never thought of it that way. But it's December 1, rifle hunt on the plains with landowner tag. I don't know if anybody paid attention to what Colorado produced last year, but the eastern plains was on fire. No joke. Yeah. So this is a great hunt for a trophy mule deer, Colorado, December 2026. Okay. This is going to be Andy Rivas. All right. Here we go. Give me a call.

Hello? Hey, is this Andy? Yeah. Andy, this is Adam Bronson, Jason Carter, and the Epic Outdoors crew. How are you doing today? Doing good. Okay. You seem a little bit surprised maybe why we're calling you on a Thursday afternoon. Any idea why that would be? I think you're going to tell me about another trip. What do you mean another trip? What? I was going to say, I could kind of tell by the way he answered. He answered very abruptly like, I need to take this call. And don't be screwing with me, guys. Yeah. I'm hearing a little of that. And he had that number in his phone because, as you alluded to, Andy, you've got this call before in the past a year ago. Which blows my mind. On a different hunt. But, yes. We just did our Epic March Madness Hunt giveaway drawing, and you won another hunt. And you won the Eastern Plains Colorado mule deer hunt. How does that sound? No shit. Yeah.

I can't believe it either. Yep. It's mind-blowing. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it really is. You know, I think we had somebody on the last drive back in February that won a second hunt. But that was maybe three or four years back. He won the first hunt. But congratulations, ECO Outfitters, Alex and Esther and the gang. Land on our tag, fully outfitted hunt this December 1st. So, hopefully you've got time on your schedule. Make that happen. I was just thinking, this is no crap. I was thinking about this. I was thinking, when is that drawing coming up? And then the phone rings.

It happened today. I could tell he had panic when he said, hello.

Don't be messing with me. Well, I was getting ready to, I have a little air horn that I do for, you know, callers that you don't want, you know? Oh. You already hit that. Dang. Geez. That's mean. Give us an air horn. Give us at least another two seconds just to make sure every time. I want to hear it. Give us an air horn. Let me know what I've got to do to other people that cough needlessly. I'll tell you what, this thing works because I don't give very many calls anymore.

You want to hear it? Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Hey. You carry that on your person? No, I just carry it right by my phone. And when I get these calls that people bother me, you know, telemarkers, I just blast them. All right. It's all back. Teach them a lesson. They're trying to feed their families. Teach them a lesson. Teach them a lesson. All right. All right. All right. All right. Well, we appreciate you and the support here at Epic Outdoors. I'm glad you won. And we'll put you, obviously, we'll put you in touch. We'll give you an official email. You'll both be in touch and know that you're the winner. And then you guys can figure it out from here. Okay. All right. Okay. That sounds good. All right. All right. Thanks, Andy. Congratulations. Thanks a lot again, guys. All right. Have a good evening. Good to see you. You bet. Okay. All right. Bye. Bye. That's good stuff. All right.

Let's give away this Nevada Elk Hunt, Brunson. We've given away this hunt with Holby for a long, long time. A lot of years. Once a year for I don't know how many years. It's just awesome to give away a landowner tag up there. Flexibility. You get the archery, muzzle, or rifle hunts to choose from. I mean, you get like a three-month season window to choose from. So pretty much can find time and make time. And the winners have done really well up there. Killed great bulls. Done great. Done great. That was the hunt, Andy. We just called. He won that hunt. Yeah. He won that a year ago or whatever. He killed a non-typical bull. I think it was his anyway. He had like two beams going up all the way. It was crazy bull. Some guys have all the luck. And he's not playing it so crazy. It's just kind of wild. But we've also given away some dang many hunts over the last X amount of years.

I guess it's bound to happen a little bit. But geez, man. Why can't... Bronson, you've got that kind of luck. You've got that kind of luck. I don't. I don't know. You only hear about the good luck. You don't hear about the bad. I never tell you about that. You do play a lot of them. Yeah, well. Just what we do here. One thing you have found out is you have to be present to win on some of them. Well, yeah. I mean, I have won two doll sheep hunts and could only take one of them. Yeah, you had to be present. Oh, yeah. And you have a Utah banquet and an Idaho banquet for Wild Sheep Foundation going on the same night. You've got to pick one. I'm going to go to Utah. That's the last year I won. Pretty good stuff. Yeah, Idaho drawing. All right. I didn't know. Was it while I was in Utah? I didn't know that. But, hey, it was a good donation, you know, years ago. Yeah.

Hope they draw it again sometime. I'd like to be a two-time winner that can't go on a hunt. Well, all right. So, you know, here at Epic Outdoors, it's a personalized service. We deal with our clients very intimately on all their different applications, projects, whatever it is they've got. And anyway, so some of these guys, we know them. We know this one. This is Zach Hymas. They're an aggressive hunting family anyway. Just so happens Zach won the Nevada Elk Hunt. It's pretty awesome. We're going to give him a call and see what he has to say. What's up, Jason? What are you doing?

I'm driving in the middle of freaking Portland, Oregon right now. Are you? Oh. Jeez. You need a better attitude.

You know what? I'd have a lot better attitude if you're calling me for why I think you're calling me.

There's more than one of us on the call. Jeez. His mind went somewhere quick. A little March Madness? You got way too many dudes on the phone call to have me thinking anything other. What if we said you were the runner-up? Congratulations. Who do you got winning the big dance this weekend? That's what we were calling you just to check in on that. Who do you got winning? I had a lick of basketball this season. Okay. Well, that's what we were calling you for. He's my kind of people right there. If you can name one team that's still in it, then you win a prize. No. Then you can go on this hunt. All right. One of the Texas coaches said he was going turkey hunting in the morning, so I'll go with that. Yeah, I saw that. He's been all over social media. I saw that, and I was proud of him. I actually liked it. I was proud of him. Hey, you won that Nevada Elk Hunt up there. You're kidding me.

No, that northeast corner with the landowner tag. How's that? Dude. Your day got a little better, huh? You can hunt the whole season. Obviously, this will be a six-day hunt guided, but then after that, before that, whatever, whatever you can do, you can do, which I know you come from a hunting family. You're going to give her a heck.

Dude, I'm going to get emotional because this has been a hard year for me and my wife. Something like this is huge. I don't know if you saw, but our son passed away last June, and I wasn't looking at even being able to hunt this year just because I was like, I got to just focus on work and stuff, and so this is really cool. Wow.

Wow. You're making me get emotional. Yeah. Some things happen for a reason, you know? Some things are bigger than hunting trips, too, but hopefully this can take a little bit of that sting out and maybe give you something to look forward to. Pretty awesome. Pretty awesome. Well, you guys, this is so awesome. I really appreciate it like a ton. But yeah, we'll send you an email putting you and Hobie together, the outfitter, and let you guys just work that out in the coming weeks and months. Pretty awesome, Zach. You guys are so awesome. Thank you so much. Well, we appreciate the support your family's given us over the years. You guys are good people, so. Well, we appreciate you. Well, I guess I'll be talking to you a little bit more here in the near future. All right, buddy. Absolutely. Travel safe. Sounds good. Congratulations. Go easy on them Portland people. They're people, too.

Yeah, you got to talk a little slower. I like it. I like it. All right. Sounds good. Congrats. All right. Talk to you later. You bet. Bye.

That's always fun. It is. Yeah. Yeah, well. All right. Kind of cool. Pretty awesome. Pretty awesome to give these away. Again, everybody out there, we appreciate the support you give us here at Epic Outdoors. Yep, that's fun. Well, what else are we talking about? Oh, it's on the front burner. Let's talk about some front burner stuff, Jason. Well, I think front burner for me and you, Bronson, is Colorado. Are we? I'm done. I'm done. Hey, hey. You're not done until April 7th and then even April 8th we have to answer some calls. No, I'm talking about my personal application plans. They're in the rear view mirror. Not me. I can amend, but who's going to do that in Colorado? Me. I amend about everything. I like to apply just so I can amend. Yeah. I think they charge you another $11. Bronson about caught me applying in Utah, and then I just X out. Backed out? Really? You got 22 days left.

I just like to play. Hey, what are you doing? I like the application process almost as much as scouting, and the kill is like comes in third. Yeah.

Well, Colorado is front burner, so what else is there to talk about in Colorado? Well, I just think it's interesting. We have a lot of interest in Colorado. I think part of it, I want to talk about this point system and the changes coming up in 2028, and some of the biggest questions that we have, A, how the system's going to work, and a lot of times people just want to know. It doesn't make a difference on maybe their application process at this point, although other than I want to use my points, I understand that, but they also are just interested on how that system is going to play out. And so we call. Obviously, we talk to Game and Fish on a regular basis and deal with them, and they have some things in writing, but you can't put everything in writing until they finalize everything. It's still two years out. Yeah. A little bit of that. They don't have a layman's term reg, you know.

It's all proof a year and a half ago, whatever. But anyway. Let's start with the combining of points real quick, Bronson. Preference and bonus. Yeah, they'll do that. They'll do that on the moose sheep and go just whatever you are at the end of, what, 27, they'll add together the weighted plus the regular three points, and that'll be just the number of bonus points you have moving forward. And those will just give you more names in the hat, literally, more chances in the draw. Just like kind of Utah's system, and then you're still going to make that where you have to have three before you're eligible. Yeah. And it's interesting. Some of the Colorado guys in the DOW have coworkers, you know what I mean, and they don't want to play it for three years to be in the draw for sheep. They haven't been doing it. They're not going to do it.

They just pick deserts because they're in right out of the gate. Yeah, and it's like – and my point to them was – You could have done this 20 years ago. Yeah. You're weeding out. It's not that important to them. If it's not that important to them, then they don't really deserve a tag. I mean, can I say that? Oh, you know, I'm the king of people don't deserve a tag. Yeah, let's talk about the deserving of tags. So anyway, so you'll have additional names in the hat, Bronson. That's the basics for that. They'll combine those two. And then, you know, of course, they're a random draw right now. It's kind of a random – it's a convoluted way they do their drawing. But it's going to get simplified. But it is not reserved for high-point holders like the deer elk and antelope currently are. And that was the big probably emphasis for this change, Jason,

was the deer elk and antelope being 100% preference with the exception of some units given hybrid tags, which really only applies to the hybrid quota going to residents because nonresidents meet our quota in their first portion and don't get hybrid draw mostly. But anyway, that's going to – Hybrid draw was just garbage as far as we were concerned. Yeah, for nonresidents. It did. We did have antelope come through because there was no nonresident quota back there. Yeah. We were in the draw together. There was no nonresident quota on antelope way back. I mean, not that far back, but a little while. And so there was some nonresidents draw from our friends, Josh Horrocks, and some of those guys. So this will be changing much like Utah. It will go to a 50-50 split. Half the tags go into the high-point holders, the other half going randomly.

In the event when they have to round, it will go in favor of the max-point holders. But the bigger change, like in Utah, when there's only one nonresident tag unit, it goes randomly. In Colorado, it will start with a max-point tag, the first tag. It will start with – it will be a preference tag. Yeah. And that's because they're coming from a preference system. Yeah. So they want to kind of keep that. Yeah, kind of cater to that. So that's a slight difference. But not a lot of deer oak and antelope. I'm sure there are some. Maybe some five-tag units that there's only one nonresent tag. There could be only one, but not a lot collectively in the state. Not a lot. But that will be 50-50. And you will get, with your accumulated bonus points, you will get more names in the hat for those. That is a proven fact. One name per hat. One name per hat. One name per point.

And so anyway, where there's a lot of people that are thinking, well, does that just put my name in once? Like Wyoming. Yeah. Wyoming does that. No. This is, it's going to be, the more points you have. More names to have. More names you have. And so, and they want you to buy the points, especially for sheep, goat, moose, right? Yeah. I mean, it's not like a separate point fee for deer oak and antelope anyway. But for sheep, goat, and moose, they want you to buy that point. Get that additional name in the hat. So if I understand it right, if there's one tag, it's going to go to preference. And if there's two, there'll be one random and one random. Okay. Yeah. And then every odd tag, third one will go to preference. And then fourth will go to random. Yep. That's how it'll go. Pretty fun. And the biggest thing, I guess, the reason why this is, especially with deer, but elk

too, Jason, because the elk have a huge bottleneck for non-residents on the elite or best tags in the state. Most of them only draw one to five tags on the, say, 210, 201. For non-residents. For non-residents. So you're dealing with two to five non-residents tags on those right now. And in two years now, that quote is going to get cut in half for the high point holders. So do whatever you can. I realize you can't forcibly make it happen. But to the same principle, if you're packing a lot of points for deer, your points may not stretch as far in those 15, 20, 25 point units in two years. But if you look at the, I call it the zero to 10 point unit range, Jason. There's a bazillion. Zero to 19. There's tons of options. Yeah. And in some cases, there's still dozens or, you know, 50 or 100 non-residents in tags. That's going to get cut.

But you also are going to eliminate people every year in the random draw around that draw half the tags that, you know, so. Are no longer a factor. Yeah. On top of that, you've got some preferences. People might have 15 points and be like, I'm kind of in no man's land because I want best of the best when I travel to Colorado. So I'm just going to go for 44 or something. I'm going to put in for the best stuff. Yeah. And so then they're really not even a factor. They're out of those 12 to 16 point units that they were really kind of targeting before. I don't see it. I don't know that it's going to be all that bad. Like people are thinking, I have to burn them. I'm never going to draw again. I'm not sure that's the case. No. Especially in mid to lower point tiers. There's going to be tons of options you can still draw. But if you have a lot of points, definitely try to use them.

If you have a lot of points, it's true. But then you could contend, let's say you have 22 points and you're going for something that's been taken 26 to 28. You still are in no man's land. And so they might be like, well, I'm going to apply for the best of the best because I have 22 names in the hat. Yeah. And so even those guys aren't doing, whereas maybe they would do a Gunnison third or fourth or something like that. Take a tag and just say, I'll take the best tag I can get. But now they're doing a 44 because they've got 22 names in the hat. It's really hard to understand and know what hunter preferences are going to look like for thousands. Yeah. And what it's going to look like is you're going to be unique individually and their understanding of the system and what they have on slated for that year. Yeah. And then next year, they might decide to burn them.

The next year, they're like, I'm full. I'll take the best of the best if I can get it, but I'm full. I'm going to put for 201 or the rifle out. I'm going to put in for that because I don't really want to draw, but I take that. Yeah. But we're right in the heat of battle on, okay, so what we have here, we have two years for guys that are stressed. The general, the lion's share of the entire application people out there, whatever. The whole pool, the applicant pool wants to burn them. They feel this sense of urgency to burn them. And so people are jumping in. This is the first of two years. You're going to see some creep, man. You're going to see some creep this year, and you're going to see real creep next year. Yeah. Be prepared for it. And so we talk to a lot of people that say, I got six points, and they might give Jason

or I or Wyatt or John or Devin, whoever, cash, their two or three units. And they're all like, last year, they were 50% with six, and 28% with six, and 75% with six. And I've got six today, so I'm in. And like, man, I just... But when those points were... When those odds were made, you had five. You had five plus the creep principle we just got done talking about. So if you really want to draw, you might have to have a slight cushion on some of these hunts this year. You know, you really... Again, really the dependent factor is how many tags you're talking about. If a unit's taken six points to draw, and there was only five non-resident tags, that has a really high propensity to creep. If you're going for a unit that takes six points to draw, and there was 100 non-resident tags last year, okay, it takes a lot of crossovers to really edge out. So pay attention to that.

But deadlines, what, next Tuesday? What, is it 8 p.m.? I think it's a weird... Isn't it like an 8 p.m. or something like that, Jason, on the set of... Yeah, it is. So tell me if my logic's wrong. If I had to predict, I'm going to say point creep's going to go up in the next two years. And then, after the system changes, the premium units are going to suck more applicants. And so that would make the point creep come down for those... On the mid to lower tier. Like mid to lower tier. Yeah, Jason and I have talked a lot about that. We could actually see that because now those guys that fill their no man's land, and I only want to hunt 180, 190 type bucks, and they know that, well, I'm just going to go try in my four-point unit. I know it probably won't happen, my, you know, four-perfect point unit, but I'm going to go try it.

Now they're just going to, all right, I'm going to ply up for something I never had a chance to draw in the past. And then if you... So if you want to decide and, you know, apply for one of those mid to lowers, you could draw it with a lot less points than you can in the next two years. That's possible. Yeah. It's going to be... And you're going to be able to draw on both sides. Let's just say you were barely squeaking in to something, 35 third. Barely squeaking in. Well, maybe you draw on the random side. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's going to be interesting. Yeah. So... I haven't talked a lot about antelope. Jason, do you have any thoughts with them? Ah! They are my faves. You're the highest point holder in our office of antelope points. So I just didn't know if you thought this was going to affect them. I'm still thinking about deer. There was one...

Who was I consulting today, Adam? You were... I mean, you and I sit right next to each other with the window open, usually, when we're right in the heat of battle. And so we hear about everything. Was it a 22-point guy? It was a guy that went from... The odds went from 27 down to 20. In one year. In one year. And the reason why is there's so few attacks. If you just have a couple... Two people leave it alone. It was illustrating the principle you brought up five minutes ago. Yeah. You get low tag numbers. It doesn't take much. All of a sudden, there's this vacillating, you know, point level needed to draw. And it changes. And you're just like, whoa. Had I known that, I would have applied. You know? And so, anyway. I'm just trying to see it. And it seems like it was a fourth season. Yeah, I think... And I wanted to say it was like a... I don't know.

Maybe it was a Gunnison fourth or something. But it was kind of interesting. What was that one? Let's see. Was that going the wrong way? It's going the wrong way. That one went from 17 to 26. Yeah. You could say that. Like, there's a 44. It goes from 17 to 26. But it has a total of one non-resident attack. So, just as whoever put in for it. You know? It jumped nine points, right? In a year? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's just one of those things. Like, how can you predict that? Well, you can't. There's one. One guy decided, I'm going to own this one. And he did. He owned it. Guys with the most points win. And similarly, what you're saying, yours probably went the other way. A unit that maybe took 20. It went the other way. 27 two years ago. And last year took 20. And he's thinking he can get it with 21 or two points. And you're like, don't care. The 33rd went from 12 points to nine points.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, kind of interesting. Like, it went down. Yeah, it was down. Which defies some logic from what we're used to. But don't count on it again. And so, people will be like, whoa. Here it is. 54 fourth. Went from 23 to 17. Okay. There you go. You know what I mean? Don't count on getting it with 18 points. Yeah. There was two non-resident tags. Well, it's just so easy. Two guys. Yeah. One or two dudes put in. You could get it out. 27 put in there this year. Yeah. And say, I'm going on. And we see that in Utah, too. And that's what I really like about our odds online. Our odds online will show you the different point levels and numbers of applicants in those point levels.

54th. Let's just say there was guys with 23 that drew. And then 22, 21, 20. All had zero. 19. Had no applicants. Yeah. And we can't put 21 years of applicants for every unit, for every hunt in our magazine. So, we print 100% with 23 or whatever. But then sometimes you can go look and say, well, that guy just wanted to go hunt last year. And there's four or five point levels below that. That's zero. Yeah. And you could say, okay, maybe I could get it with 20 this year. More to the odds than meets the eye as far as just this quick synopsis right here in front of you on printed paper. I encourage you to look online, especially in these low tag units. Or in a lot of Utah cases, you're talking about one or two honors and elk tags in some of these. Oh, I love our online odds. I don't know how many hours we spend on it every day, but it's like, it's consulting because

every day, every call is something like, I've got 13 elk. Give me the best option I have in Colorado. I'll be like, okay, I'm going to do a query from eight to 13, you know, or deer, even the same thing. I had the same guy, same thing, deer and elk. And so, I did a query from eight to 13. And there was things in there that down at the eight level that I would rather have than maybe some of the 10 to 12s. Yeah. But it's just, you know. Yeah. Don't always worry about, quote, giving points away. That's exactly. People are afraid. Go hunt and go hunt. They didn't maximize the use. And people will laugh at me. I applied for something for seven points and I had 14. You know what I mean? And it's like, I mean. There's something about planning. Let them laugh at the giant freaking rack in the back of your truck, you know? I mean, there's not everything. Quality does follow demand.

Demand follows quality a little bit and whatnot. But sometimes, just a couple of tags skyrockets what is the appearance of demand. If there's one tag, you have this appearance of heavy demand because it takes so many points to draw. It's only one tag. So, anyway. It's kind of interesting. We love doing that and analyzing that. Again, hunter preferences and how people understand the system, how well they're educated. Maybe a lot of them don't listen to the podcast. They just know that I got to burn them. I don't know why. I just got to burn them. And then also, Bronson, be careful what you wish for. Do you want to, like, it's fine to burn them, but now you have to go make good on that hunt and start paying gas money, scouting money, or guide money, or whatever. Do you really want to go? No, it's okay not to go. If you really don't want to go this year, it is okay not to go this year.

Like, so, anyway. Just make sure. Be careful what you really want. Be careful what you wish for because you might get it. You know what I mean? That kind of principle. Well, when you talked a little bit about Utah, that's, I guess, slid to the front burner now that we're in April, too. We still have three weeks left to the deadline there. But I don't know what else more there is to talk about that. But if you, I guess, if you haven't checked. Well, I mean, how about the new quotas came out, Bronson? How'd you feel about some of those? Well, not. I love to trigger it, Bronson. I love to trigger it. Bronson, we've had an amazing year. That was more. Therefore. That was more the social media post about the deer than anything that triggered. Well, and also there's been people talking about how many deer we killed lots of does back in the day, you know, 50 years ago and lots of bucks.

Same number of does and bucks and whatnot. Back in the day when you had a valid point, we used 1080 back then. And we had relatively no elk. Let's just call it that way. In Utah, especially. Yeah. Call it like no elk compared to today. Yeah. In the 70s and 80s. Nothing competing against each other. Yeah. Indirectly competing. Yeah. And coming out of the 60s and 70s. Don't we like that term indirectly? Indirectly. Anyway. Go ahead, Bronson. Another triggering. Well, no. It's just, yeah, you can't compare. Okay. It was the healthiest time we ever had robust growth curves on deers when we were also killing X number of does on every herd. There's more variables. And the variables were you were killing, poisoning everything on the landscape with 1080. Eagles, coyotes. Everything that killed. Everything that killed fawns because of the sheep herd. So, populations were super prolific.

The Western, you know, domestic sheep industry was, you know, high. And so, you had, there's a direct correlation to that. That when that went away, then all those predators, you know, have increased. Every single one of them have increased. And I want to think that the ability for us to guess or to have an educated guess of what's on the landscape might be a little better nowadays, 70, 60, 70 years later. We might have got better at figuring out, you know, utilizing mathematical formulas and survey data and things like that. And no question, you had much higher deer numbers. And so, yeah, habitat over usage was a real concern. I mean, look at the Kaiba back in the day. They ate their stuff out of house and home. Yeah. You know, same era we're talking about, you know. They also had some real winners even on the Kaiba. Yeah, exactly. So, anyway. But, yeah.

The permit numbers have been released for Utah. Their public meetings are coming out right now. Their public comment period's open. Their RAC and Wildlife Board meetings will be coming up here soon. And very important to pay attention to some of those things. I guess even for residents, but non-residents maybe particularly, to look at tag numbers and fluctuations and see where there's going to be max point tags and not max point tags or additional max point tags than there was last year. Things like that. So it's fun to look at. Definitely encourage you to apply early if you have a license. The license went up this last year to $144. So definitely worth trying to get a twofer. Applying only has to be valid the day you apply. People were complaining a lot about the price increases and things. You know, it's now just over $20 to apply per species and things like that.

And it adds up for non-residents. It sure does. There's a lot of different SKUs for non-residents. There are. You can rack up $300 pretty easy, kind of like you can in Nevada when we apply for anything as a non-resident plus some silver states and stuff you just can't. But I love Nevada and it's worth it. Yep. That's right. But the tag fees in Utah, if you do draw, they went up considerably. But, you know, you only pay those once every, you know, however long. When you draw. Yeah. That's right. Right. I mean, you don't even pay them prior to draw. You only pay them after you draw. That's right. I don't know. I just find it interesting. I think, you know, they've got a stipulation too. If they can adjust tag numbers now, and we watched them vote on this and approve it, that DWR can do what they want up to 20% of a change of a quota. And so, anyway, there was a lot of.

Without having to get Wildlife Board approval. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. I mean, I guess they do vote it, but they don't have to take, I guess, public. They can do it, but it's going to be more of a. Rubber stamp. It's going to be a comment. It's going to be a comment. It's not going to be a voting process. And so, anyway, it's kind of interesting on this new packet. They had a lot that weren't in yellow that were, it exceeded the 20%, you know what I mean? And so, it's just like, I mean, you know. Anyway, Logan, you ran it through AI. What did AI say? AI said there was 87 different SKUs that they went over the 20% allocation on that were not marked for public comment and discussion. Discussion items. So, anyway, those documents will probably be altered. And, you know, adjusted and whatnot. But, you have a little bit of free reign. You're going to take it. Oh, anyway.

Kind of interesting. Good stuff. We're not doom and gloom, necessarily. I mean, there was a. It's just, I do find it interesting, Bronson. The triggering post that you covered. We did see a lot of young bucks on the landscape. And, we did have a year of better moisture than we've had prior. Right? Up until about November. Okay. Last year. Okay. Okay. Okay. But, I mean. But, is that. If you've looked at our map. Is that. If you've looked at our map. In Utah. In the west. Okay. I mean. I love the trigger. It's like the worst. I love the trigger. I've ever seen. Okay. Wait. When was the timing when they were counting deer, though, and deciding numbers? I don't have my phone in here to see their post. But, it just said, over the last year, things are really looking up.

And, the trends. The trends to decrease tags. They need a three-year trend. Yeah. But, this trend from. What do you want to call it, Bronson? October through November.

It's better than ever. The trend from when a fawn does not have visible antlers to where they start protruding from its head. A button bot.

I love it. It was amazing. The conditions were amazing. All right. We're having a good time here at Epic Outdoors. What happens when you get a hot mic? You can't beat them. Yeah. We're not going to join them, but you can't beat them. You got to laugh sometimes. Yeah. It's all right. We get passionate. I do want to say this. We're not trying to make every unit in the state of Utah a hand-raiser and Oak Creek experience. Like, we are not. No. No. But, part of it is we just came off. And, I know what they're going to say. Hey, this went through. You know, the public process and all that. And the management plans were altered and the buck-to-doe ratios were dropped. But that's kind of where all this stems. You know, when that happened, now they can give more tags.

And any, I don't know if you could call it momentum, but any headway that we felt some units were gathering now, that can be squashed. Just like that. Just like that. Just because now you're down to the 15, 17 from the 18 to 20. And, okay. Yeah. It didn't. That's what got passed. I get it. But there's a lot of way of how data can be presented to make an argument. Let's put it that way. My favorite is the buck-to-doe ratios on the boulder are the best of anywhere in the state. For general. For general. Go ask some boulder boys if they really feel that way. I mean, I love that. Whatever. Just a parting thought. So, would you say there are any bright spots? There's always bright spots. What I really like about Utah. It rained yesterday. Amazing, actually. Yeah. It did rain all day. In all four corners of the earth, it feels like. There was arc starting to be built. I tried to remember.

I mean, it's been months since it rained. I hit up chat for the right wood to use for my arc. What's the most buoyant wood? On the top of your arc. I didn't even know where you were going. Okay, Noah. I get it. What do you mean? I was not following you. When you haven't seen a raindrop for like however many months, and you see this Hawaiian storm that's been churning out there for three weeks. Some flooding the islands. I don't know where you guys were in August of 2021, but I was out shoveling mud in my front yard and looking for arc material. Yeah, you were flooding. I was there. We were there. We were there. Waller threw it with you, and it was not pretty. It wasn't pretty. I'd like to see those days again. Be careful what you wish for, Carter. Be careful what you wish for. You kind of built your yard in preparation for another flood. I did.

There were some covert cleaning checks out there. Dikes in places. Dikes have never been. But I would like to say, we did take a little road trip out to Nevada. It's pretty green. I'm not going to lie. There's some places that are pretty green. I'm talking to a really good friend of mine that outfits on the Arizona Strip. And the outlook is that it has to be better than last year. It's green out there. They're getting some rain. It's April. Got some rain. April 1st? Yeah. We got rain April 1st. In April, my good friend Greg Krogh says, you need an April and May for these desert areas. And I agree with him. Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, unfortunately, we had so much last October, November, December. It obviously saturated the ground and I think did some good, even though we didn't have very much since then. Yeah. And had no snowpack. But it was so incredibly, incredibly, unbelievably wet. Yeah.

During that period of time. Remember going into last winter, we were like, watch out. And then it just stopped. But we're beyond filling reservoirs, lakes, all that stuff. We're just about, all we need is well-timed little storms now for the next two months. Well, yesterday was April 1st. So that counts. Of course, John. That's really precious. That's what we're saying. Hopefully, you don't have to wait until May 1st to get another one. But yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Anything else on the front burner? Logan, you got anything on the front burner for all of us? I got brand new tires. I got piece of hat. I'm good. Where'd you get those tires? I know a guy. I know a guy who was swapping some out and just saved my bacon. Yeah. It wasn't Mr. B. He only wants your firstborn. That's it. Well, if you buy four tires from anywhere else, they want all your kids and your wife. I don't want your first.

Maybe your grandkids. Your lineages is your toast. I don't want firstborn. I just want your Benjis. That I can do. I was helping a guy down the street anyway, and he goes, Jason, me and my wife have another kid. We're giving them to you. And I said, I don't want your kid. I want your grandkids. I want grandkids. I'm at that age. You know you're old when you want grandkids. I've been told to stop talking about that for my kids. No more. No more grandkids talk. Anyway. All right. Bronson, I can't think of anything else. We've got a lot of deadlines in April. April's a busy month here. Most of them are at the end of the month, other than Colorado, like we talked about on the 7th. So we'll have a lot of time to talk about everything going on the rest of the month of April. But congratulations to these three winners today.

Appreciate everybody who played our epic outdoors March Madness Hunt giveaway. They're fun to do. We'll be coming with another one here in a month or two regarding our summer drive. We've got a bunch of cool hunts lined up for that. But thanks for everybody for that. I like it. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic approved outfitters and members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas, no more applying for a unit where

there has been a die off, and no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home. Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new Guide Pro series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again, the Epic Outdoors licensed application service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications.

You'll never miss a deadline. You'll never apply for the wrong unit. And you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors licensed app. 435-263-0777. If you want a bow from the best manufacturer there is, look at Hoyt Archery. With the addition of the new Carbon RX-8 and the Aluminum Alpha X, Hoyt has reimagined what a bow can do. Hoyt bows. Where 70 pounds feels like 60. Call us to order your today. 435-263-0777. With fierce rifles, every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next fierce rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official fierce rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out.

435-263-0777. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to EpicOptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777. If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the West. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to StJamesSportingProperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast.

Check us out at EpicOutdoors.com. !