EP 397: Long Range Rifle Setup and Shooting Tips with TS Customs Rifles and a Giant Nevada Archery Buck Story

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter here and the Epic Outdoors crew, at least part of them. In hunting season, you kind of get partial, right? And the partial that's here doesn't want to be here. But we're here to help you. I never said anything. Do you want to be here, Wyatt? I wouldn't quite say not want to be here, but we're here. That's a good way to put it. We actually like coming in the office, but man, it's hunting season. People are smashing stuff. In fact, we've got a story coming up here. Archery Deer in Nevada, of course. We talked about it, what, yesterday, Devin, on our little social media post that they made us do. As we said, deer dying as we speak. Which we crushed it. It was happening. Sure enough, they were standing over it. All right, so anyway, let's see. We got some cleanup to do here, Logan.

We were giving away like a tripod of their choice for posting up some pictures, and we reposted, and they had to use the right hashtag, and you make them jump through 14,000 hoops. Well, I don't want it to be too easy. These are good tripods. Oh, good point. So I want them to work for it a little. And you want the drawing odds to be good, right? Yes, yeah. So keep the pool low. Make them throw in a three-by-five postcard, been ready, postmarked by this day, received by this day. Not quite that intensive, but we got close. All right, so give us a quick rundown. What did we do? All right, we did an Instagram giveaway where if you posted your scouting pictures from this year or last year, scouting pictures or videos, and either posted them or sent them to us, and we threw them back up on our story, you got entered, and you're going to win a tripod combo of your choice, light, ultra, or max.

So we're going to spin the wheel and see who wins right now. Very cool. All right, so here we go. You guys like to watch. Well, I mean, dude. Ooh, I like that. The wheel improves every time. There's pressure when you're a witness. Jaden Cook. There it is. 78 is his Instagram. Jaden Cook, 78. So we're going to reach out to him, and he can choose a tripod. All right. Wow. We also sell Vortex tripods. He could choose one of those, maybe. We do? Yeah, we do. All right. Just kidding. This is an epic tripod, the most amazing tripods ever built on the planet. All right. Right, John? That's right. That's right. John. I'm just sorry. I'm laughing. Why are you laughing? I don't know. What do you mean? I don't know. I come by, and there's shoes by the front door. Yeah. That's because I'm trying to lead by example. If the girls have muddy shoes, they should take them off the front door.

So mine were slightly muddy, and I'm like, you know what? This is a good time for them to notice that we don't just dirty up the office. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It seems like you were doing some house cleaning chores yesterday. I was doing some house cleaning. Oh, well. I'm leading by example there. Yeah. Well, I hear that's going to stop. We're going to help you out on that. All right. So anyway, yeah, it's just trying to get out and get gear squared away, trucks, four-wheelers, trailers. It's just a lot fitting in a day. Right, Wyatt? Just a lot. It's hard being a dad. I'm only a dad to one. He's a lot, though. Yeah. Almost three.

Speaking of that, Cash just jumped on a plane. Cash makes me feel like I'm a dad with responsibilities. How often I have to cater to him. Yeah. So Cash has got projects. Logan's got to help with the projects. Of course, Logan owes it to him because he's the little brother. What has Cash done for me? You named one thing. Oh, wow. This will be interesting. I don't know. Maybe we'll ask Cash. This is good. All right. So anyway, fun stuff. Pretty awesome. Today, we've got a lot. We've got a full schedule. There's a lot going on. We want to talk to Travis Stevens at TS Customs. I met Travis at a little shindig Swaro was putting on. And we did a lot of shooting together. Anyway, shot his rifles. Actually ordered a rifle. Killed stuff with his rifle. It's been awesome. And then we've got other rifles on order that's even, speaking of Cash, he's not here. But his rifle's coming.

Adam's rifle's coming. And, of course, they paid for them. I mean, they're awesome. Just incredible. Devin, you've worked them over. You're probably on the hook. I don't know. I actually don't want to speak for you, but pretty legit. It's hard not to want one of everything in your arsenal. It's true. You know what I mean? You've got guns from way back that you've killed tons of stuff that you'll never give up, right? Tried and true. But it's really hard. It is really hard. Yeah. Between everything. Optics. Everything. Guns. Yeah. Layaway programs. I try to be responsible sometimes. Logie Bear. If you want something, Logie Bear, we can lay it away for 20 years. Logan's generation does not know what that means. They put a... What do they do? Payment plans. Layaway wasn't ever a thing in there. Just Fidmo. Oh, no. Payment. Layaway is a huge thing now. I mean, they put it on DoorDash.

You can pay off your Taco Bell order over the course of two months. Come on. Dead serious. They call it a firm. Yeah, a firm or whatever. Come on. Yeah, I'm dead serious. You can look at it. But don't you end up paying like 10% more over the period or something? Oh, the interest is like crazy. These short-term loans. Like every truck part or thing I order, it always says like pay in six payments or something. And only $80. I never really did the math. Only $80 of interest on this $100 purchase. Yeah, but you have a $100 purchase. If you don't get paid, how do you go collect the money? Are you going to choke the guy out? Like how do you get – how are you going to take him to court for $100? That's a good question. It's a pre-authorized loan. Like it's a real loan that goes on your credit. Wow. Like dead serious.

You could buy a $100 truck part and it could affect your credit if you do payments. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Let's do the Epic Affirm Hunting Program. Okay. Financial program. Okay. You want to be on the hook for that? Well, I don't know. Maybe. What would Dave Ramsey say to that? I know you're a really big follower. What's Dave Ramsey say? Where he would talk about putting all your money in the living room floor and burning it? No, not really. Does that apply to that one? More about don't go into debt. Yeah, don't go into debt. Slave to the lender. Is that what he says? Don't be a slave to the lender. Yeah. You don't need Taco Bell that bad. I mean, what about life? Don't you want to experience life? Hey, you know you only live once. What's a little interest payment here and there and everywhere?

All right. I don't really believe that. But we could do the Epic Confirm program. I don't even know what I'm saying. I don't know if you want to be on the hook. No. All right. So, anyway, let's... So, we want to talk to Travis a bit and just talk to him about setting up a rifle, you know, what he's finding for loads, calibers, things like that. He's big into predators. Anyway, so impressed with his products. If you're going for a full custom rifle, you cannot go wrong there. Or, you know, then there's other options we have here at Epic Outdoors as well. If you want to save a few bucks but still have an incredible rifle. So, anyway, kind of fits both bills there. And, again, I just couldn't be more impressed with Travis and his operation. All right. Anything else before we give him a holler? You got anything there for us, Devin? No. No, you're good. I got a couple questions for him.

Do you? Yeah, I was thinking about. Yeah? Coming from D&J gunsmithing. Wyatt loves to tease. We're closed between now and. But, quite frankly, I'm pretty. I think I'm impressed. I'm impressed with our little gig. The last time we went out there was so smooth and efficient and unbelievable. Both rifles shooting, like, unbelievable at 1,000 yards. And, to me, that's a real compliment to the shooters. You know what I mean? You were on fire. Well, I mean, the time we went out before, you were on fire. What I think is funny is. I did. I shot, like, 90% of the time. I didn't even really realize. He did. I did. I'm okay with it. I love watching and just. Yeah. It was dialed. You janked that one. You hit way high. I'm never shooting with Devin again. Why? Because we went one time and I killed it. It was impressive. I remember that. I was 1,000 yards, bam, dead on. It was awesome.

That was a fateful morning at the range. So, now? There was a lot going on. I just never go with him again. He always has this, you know, image in his head. Three inch groups. John just racking them at 1,000. Yeah. Anyways, let's call him. All right. Let's give him a holler.

Hello. Hey, Travis. Jason Carter here. How are you? I'm good. How are you guys today? Good. Good. Got the Epic Outdoors crew here with you. Awesome. Really kind of been looking forward to this one. Me as well. Good. Awesome. So, I guess just to start us off, I know Devin's got a load of questions for you. Wyatt's got a couple probably. But, just to start us off, maybe give us a little background on you, how you got started, your business, kind of the business model a little bit, and then anything you want to interject just to kind of get us going and then we'll just have a good active discussion on several different topics. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I grew up as a Midwestern kid. You know, grew up on a farm, seven years old. My dad gave me a single shot, 22, and cut the buttstock off so it would fit me.

And I spent every day after school, you know, terrorizing everything in the trees behind the house that had fur or feathers and trying to kill and hunt down anything that I could. And that kind of built my passion for shooting and hunting. Yeah. You were probably doing stuff that they would try little kids as adults for nowadays and put them in prison. Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably. That was a good likelihood of that. When you're seven, if it moves and it wasn't a cow or a horse, you probably shot at it. You probably shot at it, killed it, maimed it, wounded it, whatever. Yeah. We all did it. I don't recall ever shooting out a tire or shooting out a window. That's a good answer. I do not recall.

That's a good answer. I never had a gun taken away, so I must have been moderately safe and responsible. You were fine. You were fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, just to grew up with that outdoor lifestyle and, you know, the kind of the precision rifle thing developed from hunting as a teenager. A friend of ours reloaded and, you know, invited me over to reload some shells because broke kid and thought you could save some money loading some shells. And, and, uh, I just really fell in love with the technical aspect of it. You know, I load an ammo for, for factory guns and, and, you know, started getting on the internet and Facebook and, and researching how to make accurate, more accurate ammo, uh, which then kind of developed into the limitations of the rifle and started looking at all the rifles that I had and how I could tweak them too and make them more accurate.

And, uh, you know, and that was 2005, 2004 and, uh, you know, the long range shooting stuff was just, just really getting going. And, you know, six, five Creedmoor came out in 2007. So, uh, sort of seeing more scopes with turrets and, and, uh, range finders and ballistics and, and, uh, kind of all that just, just, uh, that kind of developed my passion for it. And, and kind of odd all through high school, I'd said, I wanted to be a orthodontist when I got out of school. So the, the, the, the, the, the path was never there for, for getting into gun stuff. Um, you know, that was, I'd said that since I was in seventh grade all through high school, I'm going to be an orthodontist. I'm going to be an orthodontist. I'm going to go hunting and, you know, I'm going to work four days a week and I get to hunt on the weekends. Was the orthodontist thing, was it part of your family or like why that?

Or is it just that you knew that they made enough money you could go hunt and do anything you wanted or. It was, it was, it was part, it was part, uh, the, the, the money and the, and the time, you know, we've come from a farm and farm and ranch and family. My dad farmed and then moved off the farm to sell equipment. Um, so it was, it wasn't in, it wasn't in the family. I just, you know, I've got four older brothers and, you know, my dad kind of always encouraged us to do something to our, to our skillset. And I had braces and I always thought it was super interesting back into the technical aspect, you know, how they put them brackets on and that wire and it'd move my teeth around. And I just, you know, my dad laughs about, you know, standing in the backseat of the car going down the road. And I was the, someday I'm going to invent this someday. I'm going to invent that.

That was, he still tells stories about all the, all the things that I talked about that I was going to invent. So, you know, it was, he would, you know, you should be a mechanical engineer or, you know, like I said, like this, an orthodontist. But I went to a year of gen eds. And once I got out of high school, this doing college really wasn't for me.

And, uh, but through high school, I'd had a couple of custom rifles built, um, or we'd had a couple of rifles built. And then because I'd really got into the load and stuff harder and, and a friend of mine actually went to gunsmithing school at the same time as I went to gen eds and, and, uh, the gunsmithing school there, they had a pretty strong focus on rifles and we talked and I decided to quit gen eds and I'm going to go build custom rifles. I'm going to go to, go to, uh, go to gunsmithing school. So, yeah, it was a pretty big departure from my, from my original, from my original plan, but, but I can still see the technicality, uh, involved. And then especially on these custom rifles and building and thinking and, and developing loads and, and trying new things and thinking outside the box. Like I can still see how that plays right into your personality. Right. Yep. Yep. Yep. Exactly.

Makes it, it's why you're good at what you're doing. It's just because of, you know, that, that portion of, of who you are. Right. Right. Yeah. So I, I went to, I went to Trinidad, uh, in Trinidad, Colorado, there did the first year of the program, didn't finish the program. I, uh, I'd done pretty much all the machine shop projects that they had cleared through the program by the time I went home for Thanksgiving and had built a rifle already. And, and, uh, I did, I kind of just looked further ahead than, you know, than having a gun shop that I did gunsmithing work. I really wanted to build rifles, you know, and it, and the custom rifle thing wasn't near as big then, you know, that would have been 2011. Um, but I, I just, you know, following it online and, you know, some of the early companies that were, that were doing it is just, I could see that was what I really wanted to do.

I could see the, you see where that, you know, thought where I could see where that, where that industry was, was going. And I just, I really liked it. I mean, I, you know, shooting coyotes and deer at five and 600 yards, uh, on, you know, on my own and figure, you know, figuring that, figuring that out. And it just looked really, it seemed like something I could build a business out of. And, uh, so I, I just went after it. I did the, just did the first half of their program, took all the rifle smithing stuff. I didn't want to fix guns, fix shotguns, blue old guns. So I, I skipped all of that and, uh, came home, went to two years, uh, in the tech school for their machining program, you know, CNC programming and drafting and, and all that. I figured if, if I'm going to, if I was going to scale the rifle building, it would, it would

have to be more than just whittling on guns with a manual lathe and mill. So I went, did, did that and, um, actually bought, bought my first lathe while I was in college. Then I bought my first CNC mill the second year that I was in tech school. Um, so when I, when I got out of school, I was, I had just turned 21 the fall before. And May, when I was out of school, I applied for my FFL and had an FFL put a couple of machines in the shop behind the house and, and went to work building guns. That's crazy. That's kind of wild. So did you specialize in any specific, uh, calibers or were you just like, I'm going to build guns and hopefully the people come, you know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and at, at the time, um, like F class, well, not really so much F class, but, uh, like 600 yard bench rest was pretty big in our area.

And when I was going through school and I thought that'd be something I'd get into that's got, you know, and that's what I was really more interested in at that time, even more so than the long range hunting rifles. I really liked the super hyper accurate rifles and, and, uh, you know, kind of shot from mechanical rests and, and, uh, not so much a field rifle, but, but, uh, just varmint rifles and, and target rifles really this, you know, the super, super accurate stuff, what really interested me. And that kind of fizzled out in the area, the PRS, uh, competition stuff had taken off and we were seeing some of that. So I jumped into that as soon as I was, as soon as I was getting started, um, and met a lot of, met a lot of the really, really the race relationships with the vendors and manufacturers that still have and use today, um, the early days of the PRS precision rifle series.

Um, and then that kind of developed into more, more hunting guns, you know, um, back then it wasn't, it wasn't super common for guys to have a custom hunting rifle. Seemed like more of the guys that had custom rifles were, you know, more serious coyote hunters, guys that shot a lot of prairie dogs or the guys that, you know, shot, shot targets. So I didn't, yeah, I didn't really specialize. I just kind of went with wherever the industry went at, at the time. Well, and here in the West, like we've got a lot of long range shooting, right? Like, I mean, how long, Devin, how long has it been since we've been shooting long range roughly? Probably like what? 2005, 2008, like five, seven ish. I remember, I remember my first big deer was 2003 and I walked it into him. You know what I mean? I mean, that's kind of what we did.

And, and then when I said that out loud, there was another guy that reached out and he's like, Hey, you know, I'm, and he was doing the, the reticles inside the scope and he's, you know, he was like, Hey, there's, there's another option, you know, and it was kind of my first introduction to long range. So that was, I would say like 2004, 2005. For me, like turrets, I would say like 2010 ish. Yeah. Not personally. Cause I was like 18, 19, but guiding hunters and they'd show up with these rifles and like, I could shoot 900 yards. I'm like, what? And so show me the turret. It just blew my mind. Yeah. And so here in the West, like here in the West, when we're dealing with, you know, long range, we just want, people aren't proud. Like, and we're not trying to shoot something at a thousand yards, but if you can, it makes five, six, seven look like a chip shot.

And then, and Travis, where you're from, it seems like, I don't know where are you just for the people to know, like where are you located at the moment? So we're in, we're in Miller, South Dakota. We're in the, we're on the plain side of the state. Uh, we got a little, we're pretty flat, got a lot of farm ground, you know, and that our area is probably a little further behind or a little, it was a little later to catch up to the long range stuff. Cause you know, you look, you look across your country and yeah, I'm, you know, I'm sitting in the office of the building and yeah, I can see, I can see five miles away, but when you're on the ground, it's when it's flat, it's hard to get a long range shot. Well, or you have accurate range finding. Like when we're, for example, it's hard. To get an accurate range or whatever.

But yeah, I feel like, and the further East you go here in the U S um, you know, you don't, you're not long range hunting in Pennsylvania or, you know, Iowa or things like that. And so, but here in the West, we've always pushed the envelope or felt like the need to long range, long range glass. Yeah. Tripod glassing, all of that. And so, you know, and that, which is what you're breaking into or have broke into is the, is the, what any market, right? Anybody that wants an awesome rifle, but, but there's a lot of demand for the long range, even, you know, big game calibers, long range here in the West. And you're seeing that, of course, you're dealing with a lot of those clients now as your business has morphed. Um, and, and so there's a huge demand to be able to, uh, ethically accurately harvest big game at long, longer distances, you know? Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

And as our, we grew our presence in the, in the industry or even just social media and Facebook, uh, it, it, it took a few, it took a few years before we built rifles that weren't, that weren't local. And then once we made some connections in the West and started building more rifles like that, I, you know, I hadn't identified that as as big a demand immediately as, as I, as there, as there was, um, you know, you, you only know what's around you until you, until you discover what else, what else is out there. So you're big into predators, right? Like, it seems like you're really, you're kind of, kind of your gig personally. That's, that's probably hunting wise. That's probably my first passion. If I had to, you know, you see those posts, if you only, if you could only hunt one thing, what would it be? And mine would be without a doubt coyotes.

Uh, you know, we are, we're in good coyote country. We've got our country really built for coyote hunting and for, for coyotes, for good habitat for them. Um, and that's, that's my, that's my first passion. You can do it year, you can do it year round. You never, you never fill your tag. Yeah. Um, and every, it's just like hunting everything. I mean, you know, every, every scenario, every hunts a little, is a little different. Um, but yeah, that is, that's probably, that's my first, that's my first hunting passion for sure. Well, that's pretty awesome. And so when I was, when I met you out at that Swarovski event, anyway, you were talking about some of your favorite, uh, predator cartridges and why basically that you didn't have to dial as much that you were, it was a flat shooting rifle, um, you know, carrying the energy and whatnot.

But anyway, I liked what you had to say to that, uh, and kind of your theory behind that and then how that transposes into big game and maybe a seven PRC or, or a six, five or whatever. Have you got, you know, what kind of maybe just give us a little insight to some of that and what your thoughts are there. Right. Right. Yeah. So, you know, a predator, a predator gun, um, has a lot more, I think has a lot more focus on the, the short to mid range ballistics. Cause kind of, it happened, you know, it happens, it happens so fast. It's not like you're, you're not making a, you're not making a stock. You're typically bringing that predator to you. So you never know where they're going to, where they're going to show up or, or surprise you from, or, or they're surprising and be, and be leaving or multiples show up and you shoot one.

And the other one, you know, you might get that other coyote stopped. You shot at 370 yards after you shot the first one at a hundred at 150. So, and your targets quite a little, quite a little smaller. So on a, on a predator gun, for me, there's a big focus on, on velocity because velocity is your primary factor in your ballistics at mid range, you know, four or five, 600 yards and in that, that far more important than the ballistic coefficient, your, your velocity dictates how much drop you have. Um, so with, with a coyote hunt, you know, you think about kill zone on a coyotes, maybe the size of your fist, you know, to really anchor, anchor a coyote immediately, uh, your, your margin of error there is, is pretty small. So have, having a cartridge that, you know, say has only three, four inches of drop at

300 yards instead of eight to 10, you know, you're talking completely being out of the kill zone. If you miss, misjudge the yardage versus, versus hitting one. And, uh, and coyotes are tough to kill. Um, a lot, a lot of guys get it all the time and hang out at the gun shop and, and, uh, how we're going to go shoot some coyotes, you know, it's like, and there's a lot more to it than just, we're going to go shoot some, you know, shoot some coyotes. Uh, you know, and, and they'll, you know, they're just, they're just hard to, they're hard to kill. So, um, you really, that shooting a lot of coyotes helped me with, you know, with shot placement and making, making quick, accurate shots. You know, you gotta be able to move and position and, and, uh, get set up for, to make an accurate shot cause your target's so, you know, cause your target's so small.

Um, but back to the, you know, caliber wise, something, something that is fast is, is super, super important. Um, you know, like the old 220 Swiss, 22, 250s, uh, those have been popular coyote cartridges forever. I shot a 22, 250 all through, all through high school, killed a grumble of coyotes with it, you know, and, and at the time, you know, I didn't even have a range finder, just carried a pair of binoculars and guessed and, you know, shot 40 green bullets. So they were going 4,100 feet a second and they just knew if it was like, he's not halfway across, he's not halfway across that quarter. I think I can just hold it a little high and, and, and kill him, you know, so that, that forgiveness on range estimation and, and, and ranging is, is just huge on a, on a coyote gun. And then as we got into building custom rifles and building wildcat cartridges, uh, the,

the cartridge development really for, for something like that to get the performance that we were looking for in a coyote gun and you had to build, build some kind of a wildcat. Um, 22 Creedmoor. That's been one of my favorites. I shot a, I've shot a 22 Creedmoor since long before they were cool, long before they were popular. And I think six Creedmoor came out in like 2017, 10 years after six, five Creedmoor. And we built 22 Creedmoors right away. When six Creedmoor came out, we would, uh, we had some six Creedmoor match rifles and we'd recycle the brass into 22 Creedmoor brass. So we could leave it, pitch it out the window and, and, uh, and leave it. Uh, that's been a tremendous cartridge and now, and now it's everywhere, you know, now it's actually get, you can get several different brands of ammo for it and, and brass everywhere.

What's your, what are you currently, what do you currently use them? So the one we, like we were talking about at that Swaro event, my, my baby, the last few years has been a six PRC. We take six, five PRC, neck it down to six millimeter. And, uh, I actually shoot a little bit lighter than standard bullet. Most guys, most guys are going to guess that we're shooting, you know, 105 or 108s or 115s. Um, and actually shoot a 90 grain bullet for the velocity. There's a bullet Sierra makes, call it 90 grain tipped game changer. And it's actually got a pretty high BC for the, for the weight. Um, it's kind of a Goldilocks little combination that we, we found, uh, we actually shoot those nineties about 3,700 and it, uh, so it's like, you know, it's like a two 43 plus six, 700 feet a second. And, uh, it's, it's bad on, it's bad on stuff.

Like we were, I took it, uh, to deer camp here a few years ago and had a customer picking up his 300 PRC and we were shooting just got, you know, getting, helping him shoot his gun a few times and we were at 800 yards. And I think he had two 12 box ammo going 27 something, you know, a thousand feet a second slower. And literally the drop at 800 yards was half with the six PRC versus, versus this 300. So it's really good for Kyle. It's five and in 500 and in. Yeah. Yeah. And if you have time to dial dial, go ahead and shoot further even. Right. Right. Yeah. My, my longest, my longest coyote kill with, with that's like eight 95, but I've killed so many coyotes with that gun at five to 700 yards. It's just, it's just point and click easy. It gets there so fast. The wind drift is minimized and, and, uh, back to that forgiveness and, and, uh, ranging,

you know, range of coyotes leave and range him. And get back dial your dialer scope. And he trots off 20 yards. Like you don't have to worry about redialing or rearranging. It's it's, it shoots so flat that you're not calling for another click or two, like something going slow. So, yeah, that's crazy. That's awesome. So, I mean, maybe talk about the importance of scopes and glass on your rifle and then setting it up and things like that. Is there, I mean, you know, as people are listening to the podcast, maybe let's teach them like what you think is important and what you found is, is critical when setting up a rifle and, and whatnot. Um, if you would, if you've got any, you know, I know you do, but any insight that you could, that it's easier to, you know, verbalize so we can understand how you do that. Any importance? You know, yeah.

Um, that's, you know, the, the secondary con conversation we have with a guy when he's ordering a new rifle, you know, first, first conversation revolves around the rifle, what you're doing with it. We help, you know, help you pick a caliber and a configuration and, and barrel length, you know, if you're shooting suppressed or unsuppressed. Um, but then, yeah, the optics is, that's a whole conversation to just about as, just about as big of a conversation and every bit as important as the rifle configuration. Yeah. Um, you know, the, the, the, on the rifle, on the rifle side, you know, you can do a lot of different things with, with a lot of different calibers, you know, picking a right one, picking the right cartridge isn't, isn't so hard. It's not as complicated as a lot of guys want to, want to make it to be. It's like, is it a cartridge?

Is it a cartridge that's going to work for what you're going to do with it? If, if, if yes, then, then, you know, there's a lot of things that, there's a lot of things that, that work. Um, but the, the optic conversation is so much more individual, um, you know, so much power. Exactly. And so much, so much, right. So much. And so, and so preference based too, you know, back to the, the, the rifle again, it's, well, I'm going to go, I'm going to go moose hunting. Well, you're not taking a 22 Creedmoor moose hunting, right. You know, but on the, but on the optic side of the, of the rifle, you know, we can build two rifles and that exactly the same and two different guys are going to put completely different optics on it. Yeah. One month, maybe a short, more short range optic on there, you know, for whatever. And then somebody might want to use it for a long range antelope and still kill a

moose with it, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, and so it's so, it's so preference based and you know, that, that conversation is almost more difficult to navigate a lot of times than, than specking out their, their rifle. You know, we get guys that, gosh, anything they're going to do has got to be front focal plane. You know, I'm kind of that, I'm kind of that, I'm kind of that way. I like just coming from the competitive competition, shooting background, target shooting, and then shooting environments. I like a front focal plane reticle, but I understand the limitations that low power, the reticles, the reticles hard to, hard to see generally. They're generally there. Yeah. They're a bigger, heavier, more tactical rifle scope with maybe feature sets that a, that a guy doesn't need. Um, but the important, most important thing with glass, you know, with, with optic is that

you're buying a quality optic. Yeah. Um, you know, so for the, for the guy that's a, you know, predator hunter, varmint shooter, we're going to, we're going to lean towards something that's maybe a little higher magnification, a little, maybe a little more feature set, such as a front focal plane reticle or, or, uh, bigger turrets or mill turrets. Um, and then, you know, a guy that's like, man, I'm going moose hunting and brown bear hunting, you know, a better chance that I shoot at a hundred yards than 500 yards. And, and, but it's absolutely going to be last light, low light. So the importance there lies in higher optical, you know, higher optical quality and, and something a little simpler. Yeah. That makes sense. Devin, have you got anything that you've come across when people are asking questions about setting up rifles?

I think most people don't even realize the first and second focal plane differences, to be honest. But yeah, I would say for hunters, most of the time it's the second, but it is preference. I mean, it's, it gets each individual person. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that's usually second focal plane. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And usually where we start is like, you know, what do you know? And have you, have you used, have you used anything that you're comfortable with? You know, or, or do you, you know, got a lot of guys, I just don't know where to start. And I was like, is there anything that you know you don't like or that you do like, you know, and you, and give me a, give me an instance where, you know, some, you used, you used a, an optic that, that just didn't work for the hunt you were on or how you were, how you were hunting.

You know, back to a lot, there's a lot of things that work in a lot of different ways and, and what, and what you're expecting out of it and what you're wanting to, what you're wanting to do with it dictates what kind of optic you need to put on, on the top. Well, and why, why Devin, maybe expound a bit, a little bit more on your thoughts behind that second focal plane. And then of course scrunching in the reticles and if you're using the hash marks in the reticle, you know. Yeah. I just think like low light and if you're in close and your lowest power, I've, I've seen that where people can't see the reticle, you know, and that's kind of a little, maybe before illumination and things like that, but that's just one thing that could go wrong. You know what I mean? And then. But then you also to have those, you know, on a first focal plane. And it's like for me.

You're talking on a first focal plane. On a first focal plane. But if, if you have a first focal or a second focal plane and you're actually going to hold windage, you're probably a full power anyways. Yeah. Or hold. I can only think of one time. Or hold elevation. And so you need to be on full power. You're correct. Yeah. And I can personally only think of one time killing a deer that I was under full power and I held for wind. Yeah. It was, it was crazy wind. You know what I mean? But so for me, it's like you, if you're going to shoot, if you're shooting far enough that you need to hold wind, you're probably on full power anyways. That's just my. Yeah. But like with, with, with the competitive stuff and things like that, it doesn't make sense to have a second focal plane. It's. Yeah. So it's for the application. It depends.

Again, like what Travis saying, it's the, it all comes down to the purpose of the rifle. Right. And that reminds me of the reticles. The reticles come in to, to match on full power, you know, on a second focal plane where Travis is, you know, they would be always, they would always, you could use a reticle on any power, you know what I mean? And it would, and it would work. Exactly. And that, that brings up another question, Travis, like what is your, what would say your breakdown be for a, for someone buying a long range or semi long range rifle on the, like the power mix? Cause sometimes it feels like an 18 power. If guys want to go beyond say six, seven hundred yards, you know, or plus to a thousand, 18 can be kind of tough. So 20 always kind of feels like the sweet spot, but man, when you have 25 power, you know what I mean?

Or more like, that's another thing people really have to decide. Cause if you have a second focal plane scope and it goes to 35 power and you're shooting at 400 yards on 35 power, that might be a little much, you know what I mean? So there's kind of a sweet, a mix there. So that's another variable of your scope choice that would affect people's. Right. Right. Yeah. It absolutely, yeah, it absolutely is. And, and I, that, yeah, that's a, that's a big portion of the, of the conversation I have. Um, front focal plane and what, in which power more so, more so than even what, what scope make model, you know, is, is magnification and, and first or second focal plane. So I'm going to share with you a little bit of my opinions on, on the advantages and disadvantages and, and why I'd run one or the other, depending on, depending on the customer.

So it's for me there again, competitive background, you know, small target varmint shooting, shooting background, I, I really enjoy front focal plane where I can. Um, of course I got young eyes generally, you know, any, anytime, any time you're using an optic like that, your lighting conditions are good to where you can see that, where you can, where you can see that reticle when you're backed off of, of max power and that reticle starts getting, starts getting smaller and finer. Um, and, and the big thing I were, I like the front focal plane is that reticle is always right. No matter, no matter what power, no matter what power, you're accidentally under full power. That reticle makes sense. Yep. The reticle makes sense. I know I've got a, you know, I need to have a three MOA, three MOA wind hold. Yeah. Or, or yeah, exactly. Or, or, or a whole, or a hold over.

I know my reticle is, is good. Um, and the, what I have, after guiding some more hunters, after now doing a shoot in school and, and helping some guys with, with shooting, um, I've seen, like you were saying, a lot of guys shoot on full power. And what I have found, the more I shoot, the better I have gotten at shooting the, the benefit of not shooting on full power. Uh, and here's why, like in the competitive, in the competitive stuff, you know, you're, you are trying to hit every single target and you're trying to do it fast, you know? So you're, you're looking for a read from every shot, whether that read is the plate swing in one direction or the other, or where the bullet missed off, off target. A lot of times you're shooting on a not very stable prop or barricade. And so being able to back that power down, open up your field of view, you're, you're

able to pick up that bullet trace or that bullet impact, the dust signature, and you're able to see more of your environments. Mm-hmm. Around you, you're able to see that grass between you and the target or the grass behind or around, or around that target, which is, you know, giving you some indication of where your bullet's going to go, where your bullet's going to go, um, what you might need to do for the, for the next shot. And the, the problem there then with, I see with inexperienced shooters is always wanting to shoot on max power. Um, and the, the, the disadvantage of that is your field of view is way smaller. So therefore, when you shoot your recoil, you know, if you don't have a good position built, you lose your target. Now, when you've lost, now, when you've lost your target, you can't see where the bullet lands.

You can't see if you hit your animal and your recovery time to make a subsequent shot is far greater because you feel, you feel the view smaller. It's going to take you longer. It's going to take you longer to pick that target. Exactly. To, to reacquire that target and make, and make another shot. Um, so it's, it's a big advantage. It's something we worked on in our, on our shooting school a lot with guys this, this spring was, was making them shoot on less power, on less power. You know, we, we put, kind of put them in some scenarios, you know, on time, on, on some, you know, time crunches where if you're on max power, you didn't, you couldn't find the targets fast enough, or you couldn't reacquire the targets, you know, on, on subsequent follow-up shots. Um, I think a lot of shooters, hunters, hunters especially would benefit from shooting on less power.

And that's where the front focal plane advantage comes in. You don't have to be on, be on max power. Yeah, exactly. If you got a big, if you got a big, if you got a big wind or, or like say you quick shot and you're going to, and you just want to hold over real quick, you know, 300 yards with any rifle pretty much that's going 2,700 to 3,100 feet a second, you'll hit any big, if you shoot mills, 300 yards, you hold over one mill, you're going to hit anything that you ever hit, you know? So whether you're at six power or 26 power that, that always works. Um, but I've seen it, I've seen it, I've seen it, seen it new competitive shooters. I've seen it in hunters that I've guided, uh, you know, students and students in our school that everybody could benefit from shooting on less power, whatever power they want that makes sense for that particular situation. Yeah, exactly.

A lot of guys, a lot of guys ask me, what power are you shooting on? What power do you shoot on? I like, and, and, and my answer is really honestly simple. It's, I just look through my scope. If I, if I feel like I can't see my target well enough, I'm just going to zoom up, you know, it's, it, and that, and there, that's the nice thing front focal plane, but I'll do the same, I'll do the same thing for a second focal plane is, you know, I'm just trying to get the image like where I feel like I can see my target, see my reticle well enough to make a fine enough hold. And after that, I don't really don't care what power I'm on. So changing subjects a little bit, let's say I'm Western big game. That's we're, we're shooting everything from antelope elk, antelope deer now for the most part, uh, some sheep here and there, if I get lucky or whatever, but like, what are you,

what calibers are you finding that guys are wanting or that you feel like you would, you would, uh, suggest, you know, or is it the seven PRC it's really popular right now or 300 PRC? Yeah, really. And really in our shop, we, we cover 80% of all of our rifle builds with 300, seven, six, five PRC in a 22 Creedmoor right now, you know, with seven PR, with seven PRC. I think I looked at the numbers last year and I think seven PRC basically made up 50% of the hunting rifles, Magnum hunting rifles that we did. And, and 300 PRC and six, five PRC kind of pretty evenly split, split the other, the other 50% with some wind mags and some rem mags and seven Soms and 300 WSM. You know, you'll do about it. If a guy's got a personal affinity toward one particular caliber, like you're good with whatever. Right. Right. Yeah, exactly. As long as, yeah.

As long as it makes, as long as it makes sense, you know, guys like, I just can't decide whether I want to do a seven SOM or a seven PRC. It's like, if you're going to rely on factory ammo, that answer that, you know, that question is pretty simple. You're going to have a seven PRC, but if you're a devout hand loader, there's probably some little advantages to the seven SOM. It's a little less powder capacity, a little easier to, to load tune and just maybe touching it more inherently accurate. You know, but it has no factory ammo. Do you load, if I'm a client of yours, do you load ammo for me if I want you to, or just give the recipe or how does that work? Yeah. So when we moved in here two years ago, we moved into a new facility. I was fortunate to buy a nice piece of property right on the edge of town here. We've got 1100 yard range out the back door of the shop.

Um, and we really started going after load development and custom ammunition to go with our rifles. That's awesome. That was, that was one thing we've seen, you know, four or five years ago, factory ammo was so good. And today it is just not very good anymore. Or it is, it's things are not as good as it, as it was. It's far more, it's far more inconsistent. And I've kind of seen that coming in the last couple of years and, and, uh, it just became a, we, we needed to have the ability to load custom ammo that was representative of what our rifles were capable of. Are you finding differences in accuracy on, let's say a 30 cal versus a seven or something or anything like that? Or do you feel like? Uh, no, not, not really. Um, in, in most, in most hunting rifles, you know, a lighter weight barrel, say carbon barrel or a light fluted steel barrel.

Um, it's really hard to quantify the differences in accuracy capability between cartridges. You really have to have a, uh, a different rifle setup that to, to see those differences.

Awesome. Um, anything on the suppressed, are you finding a difference in accuracy or? Uh, yes, actually the, especially carbon barrels, we've noticed they benefit from having, having a suppressor on the end of them. Um, we've seen that, we've seen that quite a few times, you know, maybe fight something with a, with a break and throw a suppressor on it and man, then the groups just shrink up into that, that carbon barrels, not as stiff as a steel barrel despite the marketing. Okay. You can, you can, you can clamp a carbon barrel in a, in a one end of a carbon barrel in a vice and, uh, and pull on it and, and see that they're, they're not as, they're not as rigid. Um, you know, I think they're, I think they're a little bit more rigid than a steel barrel that weighs exactly the same or a little less. Like a lightweight steel. Yeah. Yeah.

But, uh, and the same is true on a really lightweight steel barrel. You hang a, you hang a suppressor out on the end of them. And, and she just seems to tame those barrels down a little bit. Um, we've seen that, we've seen that a lot actually, the rifles shooting better with, with suppressors on them. And, you know, here where, where, you know, where I do most of my hunting, most of the hunting's from a, from a buggy, you might get out, take a half mile, mile stock. Um, having that, having that suppressor on a rifle is just so, so nice. Um, you know, like I tell guys, I tell guys a lot, you know, they ask if I hunt with the suppressor. I'm like, I hunt everything that I can hunt with that I, if I can hunt it with a suppressor, I'm having, I'm having a suppressor on my gun. If I got to give a couple, give up a couple inches of, uh, of, uh, barrel length, I'm,

I'm doing it, you know, because I love to shoot. I love to shoot my gun. And, and I've hunted a couple of times with a muzzle break and like, I just never wanted to go shoot it. Like, you know, make a couple of coyote stands. We haven't killed a coyote. And it's like, I'm going to shoot that rock over there. Five, six, 700 yards. Just, you know, just make sure my, just make sure my gun's on it. And when I got a suppressor on, I shoot my gun away. Yeah. It just helps with that, helps with that confidence and, and knowing that everything's still dialed in when I do have an important shot. Pretty awesome. So yeah, I, I really like hunting with a suppressor. That's awesome. All right. And so let's see, moving forward, I guess. I mean, I know you've got a great factory there and, and, and it's just a solid set of employees that you're, they're working for you and whatnot. So you're really.

We've been fortunate to build a good team. Yeah. You got great. And you're putting out a good chunk of product. Like you're really, you're really going there. If a guy were to order a rifle from you, like how far out are you looking roughly? We're typically quote in three to five months. Just kind of, you know, sometimes we have parts on hand. Sometimes we're waiting on, we're waiting on parts, but that's been a pretty safe, pretty safe quote lead time here, here recently. Oh, it's awesome. Awesome. And you'll do it start to finish, obviously from just a conception to putting in the order to building it to, um, matching ammo. You know, you, you did it for us. I told you I wanted Acubons. I mean, you did it for us. Like there's, I have an affection for an Acubon. And so you're like, fine, I'll make it work. But, um, and then you'll make suggestions. We're shooting Bronsons right now.

All right. That's good. I doubt it shoots as good as mine, but, but Hey. You're right. I've seen Jason shoot. Anybody's going to have a hard time out shooting Jason. Hey, well, what about my form? Let's not talk about that. We went out to that place and I mean, I got the worst form ever. Like I can't even explain. I'm just janky Western big game, you know? Yeah. But I've seen you shoot and I don't know. The results are pretty good. So I don't know. I don't know what you say to that. He's a pretty good trigger puller. Yeah. Exactly. Travis got way better form than I do and he was more consistent. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But yeah, I may have walked away with the great, big trophy. But Travis. Yeah. Yeah. You, you've walked away with more of those than I have. That's true. But Travis is shooting ability. Travis is way more consistent, way more consistent.

And the moving targets, we had a good time. Like we were shooting 700 yard moving targets and all that. And there is. Yeah. I don't do that. And there's a lot to it and it will make you better in the hills. It'll, it will make you better in the field. Right. Knowing that kind of stuff and having good form and target acquisition and being back on the rifle, these big calibers, you know, you were talking Travis, kind of about a tame rifle and whatnot. A tame rifle allows you to get back on that target faster. Like I would be like, I would shoot and lift up and re shuck a shell and get back on the gun. These guys are shooting. They're never off the gun. They're never off the gun. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that help would recoil, less recoil, less noise. All of that helps with that. Right, Travis? Yeah. And just be more effective, like a more effective killer. Right. Right. Yeah.

There's a, there's a few things that, that a, a Western hunter, if it would pick up on or any hunter, really any, any shooter, there's just a couple, you know, little tiny things that can make you so much more effective. You know, back to, like we were talking on the scopes, you know, back in that power off just a little bit. If, if you, if you can, you know, those seconds, those seconds matter. You know, you shoot and you miss or you shoot and you hit, you hit something, you hit something bad or you hit it, you hit it good and you need to make a, you know, you need to make a follow-up shot, you know, a couple of seconds in reacquiring that, reacquiring that target can make, make all the difference. In the world. You know, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and then, you know, with that, you know, learning just to keep your head on the, on

the gun when you, when you cycle the bolt so that you can keep the target in, you know, keep your animal, keep your target in the scope while you're, while you're cycling the bolt, you know, put another round in. It's there again, just a couple more seconds. It's, it's huge. And there's a few little things like that. It's amazing. It's huge. We'll take, we'll take a guy a long ways on. It will. And in competition, but the competition in the hills, it's also, it also is relevant because, and it's not competition with other dudes in the hills. It's just getting the job done before he enters the trees or before whatever it is. And so that transposes into importance on the, on the range is, is, you know, what's important in the hills as well. And so it's just, it's just good. And maybe I know we've gone, we've gone a while on this podcast.

And so I won't keep you much longer, but do you have a couple of things that guys should think of in, in relation to form and that will shave off seconds besides just staying on the gun? Is there anything that you would tell guys or teach guys in your, your shooting school?

Yeah. One of the, one of the biggest things is, is building a support. We call it building, you know, building, building your rifle support. So obviously you're always going to have something on the front of your gun, whether that's your tripod, bipod shooting bag, whatever it is, building support under the rear of the gun is equally important. Sometimes even, even more so, um, so that you can manipulate that rifle without the rifle changing position. Um, if you got, if you got a good support, like a bag or, you know, I've rolled up my coat or slipped my bino harness off and stuck my binos under the back, under the back of that gun. Um, that helps two things. It's going to help with the recoil management. When that rifle doing the butt end of that rifle can't go down through recoil. Uh, it helps, it helps you stay on target.

And then to just build that, having that position built so you can manipulate the bolt while staying on, while staying on target. Um, the other thing, a big one, except big one for me back to the optics is, is back in that power off, you know, uh, I see, sees so often guys shoot on Mac, you know, if guys shoot on max power, you know, they, they just shot at a rock yesterday. They left their scope on 20 on 25. They come out into this opening and there's an elk, you know, there's an elk or a deer there and they go to get it on target and there's a scope still on 25 power and they can't find, you know, they can't find it in the scope. So it's getting in the habit of, of practicing and trying to shoot with a little less, with a little less power will speed you up on acquisition, reacquisition. Um, and it'll help you spot those impacts.

You know, you, how many times you see a guy shoot, did I hit it? Well, if you knew, if you hit it yourself, you can, you know, or where your bullet went, if you did, if you did miss, it's way, it's way, right. Yeah. It's, it's way better if you see where your bullet went than relying on where somebody saw it go, it's sitting 10 feet behind you and off to the, you know, which is another part of this huge argument of, of caliber and, and size, you know, dealing with a 30 caliber, you know, it's, it's easier on, let's just take a huge, um, extreme example that would never make sense, but it shows what we're talking about is like a, a 22, 250 versus a 300 rum. You know what I mean? I mean, you're, you're going to stay on target with that 22, 250, no matter what, like there's right. And so let's say, let's just say it's a six, five versus a 300 rum or something. And I love a 300 rum.

I love it. Um, it's like a shock and awe. It's smashing. You know, it feels like you break their back and you don't even touch the backbone. You know, it's just such a, it hits so hard. Um, depending on the bullet and the speed and things like that, obviously, but they just hit hard, but at the same time, it's kind of what's brought into me, to me, into my mind of why I'm shooting a seven now, seven PRC, or, or I even have a six, five and, and I love them, you know? And, and there's seven, such a good balance of value. Your, your recoil is significantly less, but you still had enough bullet weight and enough velocity to really kill with authority. Yeah. That's exactly right. Yep. Um, John, I'm Travis. I mean, I'm far from a rifle, you know, expert or whatnot, but I had some, just some curiosity questions on this KS one rifle is kind of your, your bread and butter custom rifle. Correct.

Right. Right. Yep. That's our, that's our flagship build. And I'm wondering, it seems like you've done some things that are, you know, that you're building, uh, that are, that are kind of, you know, your specific thing. The one, it looks like the receiver. You, you're, you're custom making that kind of take me through, um, you know, why you decided to do that. What that build is and why the parts are the way they are. What you were able to fix by doing your own and kind of some of the more technical things, you know, as far as that goes. Right. Right. Yeah. So, you know, as, as our bandwidth has increased and developed, you know, the, the ability to have some parts that are unique to us has, has become available to us. Um, you know, the first one we did that KS one, the original KS one stock for four or five,

six years ago, we did that after we started, had, had the ability to develop, develop the process to inlet and finish all of our own stocks in, in house. Um, that was a, that was a big thing for me. And originally why I did my own stock was, was for availability is for lead, you know, for lead time, you know, by, by buying business hinge on another manufacturer. Exactly. Exactly. That's, that's, as I've, as I've grown and scaled and, you know, and get it in and have gotten bigger art, you know, our need for parts is, has of course increased with, with that. So, you know, we just have to have more and more stuff on hand and, uh, and like the stocks, you know, the stock has always been, uh, you know, you have to order it from the manufacturer for the action and the barrel and the bottom metal that you want, that's going to go in it.

And then the color that the color that you want, well, you're talking to most of the stock manufacturers to have custom ordered stock for your, for your build, you know, that at the time, and I think it's still the same now it's five, six months just on waiting on, just on waiting on the stock. And that's, that's not something that you can inventory for a, you know, for a customer, you can't guess what action barrel and, and color a guy, you know, a guy is going to, to want. So that was a, that was a big thing. We started doing, doing the inletting stuff in house ourselves so that, so that we could, we could control all of that. You know, we could, we, we didn't have to, we didn't have to order the right color. We didn't have to get order the right inlet. We just handled all of that. And, uh, so that with that, we had the option to basically build our own stock because we

were getting blanks. And, uh, so we developed, just kind of took, kind of took all the little things, all the little ergonomics and features that, uh, that from the other stocks that we were using from McMillan and manners and AG and stockies, you know, when, when you got hundreds of guys comes through the shop and they pick them up and it's like, I don't, you know, this grip is too big and this grip is too small. And, you know, this foreign, this foreign is too fat, you know, um, yeah, right. It took, you know, kind of took some of the, you know, the ergonomics that I had, you know, learned from shooting competitively and accurately. Um, and we tried to build a, you know, basically a hybrid, what I call a long, um, I, I describe it to everybody as a modern long range hunting stock. Um, you know, it doesn't have the traditional swept grip and low comb of a, of a traditional field stock.

You know, it's got that, it's got that high straight comb, the butt pad is higher vertical grip, the vertical grip does put your hand in a better position to make a better trigger pull. You're integrating hunting and, and bench rest a little bit. You're right. Yeah, absolutely. Cause, cause anything that applies, anything that applies to a, to a 25 pound gun that's built to shoot hole and hole and hole at 600 yards, it's all everything. That whole rifle is built around it shooting more accurately or, you know, and it's interfaced with the world make allowing it to shoot more, more accurately. And that all translates to a hunting, you know, to a hunting gun shooting, you know, shooting more accurately or, or interfacing with you as the shooter more accurately. Uh, so the stock, that's kind of how the stock development came about and it's been abundantly popular for us.

Um, guys really, guys really like all the ergonomics. They like the long slender forend with the built-in pick rail, which kind of lowers the center of gravity. They're a little more stable on a, on a bipod that, that grip is really comfortable. They're going to put your hand in a good position. It's not too big, you know, and it's not too, it's not too small. And, uh, the high straight comb, high butt stock, uh, helps with, with that pad and how that interfaces with you and in any position helps manage that recoil. So, you know, that rifle's not getting away from you when you, when you shoot it. Um, then, then the action, um, was kind of, it was kind of the same way. We were just ordering enough and needing enough. And it was like, Hey, let's, you know, we, we're wanting other manufacturers to make some changes for us.

It's like, why don't we just put all this together and have our, have our own exactly the way that we want it for the bulk of our, of our customers. So we did a few little things on, on the receiver. You know, our, our focus was a lightweight yet very accurate receiver. Um, so there's kind of some unique things about it. We, we, we, uh, redesigned the M16 extractor, kind of put a little foot on it, was able to move that, the hook of the extractor down. So, um, it ejects lower than any other M16 style extractor, two lug receiver, Remington footprint type receiver, if you, if you will. Um, and it's just, it's just made really, really well shop. That's a, that's helping us make them where they're able to grind the receiver bodies and the, and the bolt bodies. So they're super, super straight and dimensions are controlled really well.

And just some little fine things, you know, most guys don't notice that the timing and how the bolt closes and how the bolt lift opens, you know, that all affects back to when you're shooting it, you know, that the less you can disrupt that rifle. Well, after you shoot while you're trying to stay on target while manipulating the bolt, the better, the better your odds, keeping that target in your, in your scope bar. So it's just kind of a combination of, yeah, of just a, of a stacking of little, little things that, that, uh, you know, on its surface, it's, it, it all looks good on a, it all looks good on a spec sheet. And, uh, you, you don't, you may, you don't know, maybe notice it until you, you go and you shoot it and you pull the trigger a few times and you cycle it and function. And it's like, well, that was just all easier and more comfortable than what I'm used to. Yeah.

You say maybe you wouldn't notice, but I would say for me, my number one problem has been, you know, cycling and, you know, getting the bullets in and out smoothly and, and all of that, you know, so like that's something I would notice. He, Travis is responsible for the engineering behind all that. I'm just looking at it like, like his point, his point, the bulk of the hunters are, are calling him and just saying, I want to go to our high full. Okay. What does that mean? Yeah. To Travis, that means he, he's got as much into the stock as he does the action, as he does the barrels or as he does, you know, and then opinions on the, on the scope and the optics and everything. And I, my point is I just want the best of the best and I'm going to walk out of here with the best. What's that? You know, and I want to, I'm paying a premium for Travis and done all that. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like he's going to ask me a few questions and we're going to customize the optic and, and what, and maybe some guys know exactly what they're talking about and he can talk as technical as you want to talk. Go ahead. Talk about, talk about every little thing you want to talk about. Me, you know, me and Travis aren't going to get that deep. I want to kill. Yeah. We might talk, we might, we might talk, we might talk a lot more about bullets than we might be because that's important. Yeah. Because I trust that you have, this is as accurate as it can get. And I, and I trust that you've done your job. You're, you're making a lot of these traps. This is your daily grind, your daily job. It is your job. And, and, and I trust that your personality of perfection and, and engineering, you know, so to speak, kind of a background, if you will, and wanting the best of the best.

I, if you can make that for me, I will pay you for that because I'm not going to go learn that stuff. I don't want, I'm not even close to, I can never become an engineer, but I kill, I kill crap. But for me, I'm really curious about the action because that's where I've had my problems. Yeah. And he can, he'll take you down roads. And all of that. He'll take you down roads until he loses you. Really interested. Because, because it's his forte. And I'll notice if it's just a little bit more smooth and I, I, you know, yeah. And quantify that. I'm going to be really happy. You'll say, well, it's a little more smooth. And he'll be like, well, what part of it's smooth? You know? And he knows he's dealt with it all. That I don't have to stick my fingers in the action and, and, you know, assist that bullet. And I call that layman's terms. That's fair.

You're just cycling is a little bit more smooth. I'm going to be happy. So it's, it's awesome. The, the, the, the action or just the stock talking about the stock is, I don't know how to quantify all that stuff. I just know what I like. This feels good. This is great. And he's saying, this is why, this is why it's actually why, you know, and it feels better. And so what goes into the shot would be the, the style of the stock, the bolt throw, the 14 other little things that it's just a mentally, wow, this is such a smooth rifle. Well, what makes it so smooth? He can tell you where, where do you want to start? You want to start at the stock? You want to start at the action that's custom to him and proprietary to him? So quite, quite crazy, quite, quite interesting. There's a lot, a lot there. It is. It's fun. And it is. And that's a cool part.

Like we have, we have such a diverse client base. You know, I said, I talked to competitive shooters and, you know, we might, we talk at length about the difference between whether they're going to run a six GT or a six Creedmoor or a six, six Dasher. And it's like, well, they're all the same thing. They run a, you know, they all shoot 105 grain bullet at 2,900 feet a second, give or take, but they're all different. And it's just, it's, it's so subjective to, to who you're talking to and, and, and what, what you're doing with it. And I, and I think that like myself, it kind of positions us uniquely in that, you know, have, have a lot of different experience in, in, in shooting and, and, and hunting. Cause I have not hunted near the Western game that, that, that you guys have hunted, but. But you have a background in hunting and I have a background on, on the bench rest. Yeah. Yeah.

And, and, and it's, and it's my passion, you know, when I, when I'm not building guns, I'm thinking about hunting or shooting or building or building guns. You know, it's not, I don't, I don't clock out at five and go work on my boat or my car. You know, I go work on my own, I go work on my own gun. And, and, uh, you know, when in, in visiting with customers, you know, trying to get your guy set up with the right rifle package, the right rifle. So configuration, you know, from having experience both in, in a lot of different avenues of shooting, you know, I try to be very unbiased and, and except my, my focus is really more on, on getting a guy the right thing for him. You know, what's, what's the right rifle for me for the same situation, you know, me and another guy going on the same exact hunt. We, we will still probably use a different rifle.

And I try to be really open-minded on that, you know, talking with customers and that's, and that's really important to me is not just selling what I think is the best for me, or maybe we, even what I think is the best for the situation, but what's going to be the best for that guy when he's in that situation. And if that guy doesn't know what he wants, you can help him. Like that's sometimes people call in and just say, Devin or Jason or Wyatt or whatever. Like, what do you use? And we'd be like, well, we use this and this is why. Okay. I want one, you know? And so sometimes like you're going to have clients call you and just say, yeah, it sounds like I want a seven PRC. I listen to the podcast. I'm kind of wanting this to be seven PRC. Can you build me one that kill that's cute. That's a freaking killer. And you'll be like, yeah, are you right-handed or left-handed? Yeah. Okay.

Sounds good. You know? And what's your budget? Like, what do you really, are we good to, to, to amp up an optic there and really put money into an optic? Or do you, you want to save a few bucks? And so this is the best for the, for the money. And there might be a few questions like that. And then you, you put him in the, in the lineup, you know? And so speaking of lineup, what does that look like? Let's say I want to order a rifle. I listen to the podcast. I want to order a rifle. I'm calling you up. What are we looking at time-wise? Time-wise, we're typically three to, we're typically three to five months. You know, our average build price on that KS-1 rifle package, which is going to have our action. It's going to have our stock, you know, got a choice there on, of course, cartridges. You know, we'll build every cartridge in that same, in that same build configuration.

Cartridges, barrel type, you know, whether we do a steel barrel that's fluted or a carbon barrel, you know, that kind of make a difference in where your rifle finishes out weight-wise. But either way, you know, however you kind of figure, configure that rifle, that rifle typically lands in the realm of $58 to $6,500. And we can pair you up with the right optic. We can help you out with a suppressor, custom ammo. We can set up a factory, you know, factory ammo. Our big focus is setting it up right for that individual. Yeah. And so you can set it up and then I can reload my own or you can build me 200 rounds and we have a happy life. Right. Yep. Yep. Okay. All right. Anything else you guys want to add, Devin and Wyatt? I could pick his brain for days.

Devin, there was a point when you were like, yeah, this guy's the real deal. And it dealt with his actions. Yeah, because I wasn't there at that event. You guys went and you met him and you were like, you got to meet Travis, you know. Yeah, it was. And then seeing your rifle, I'm very impressed. Yeah, it's no joke. But anyway, and so, yeah, it was good. It's awesome. Wyatt, you got anything? Yeah. No questions, but you can definitely tell his passion and his knowledge for rifles just in his podcast. Just listening to him, I feel like I've learned a lot. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's kind of wild, the importance of stuff you don't even think about. And anybody that listens is going to, it just reaffirms maybe something they already know or it just brings something back that they know. There's a lot of guys that are listening that are really good at what they're doing. They're killers.

And then there's people like me, I know how to pull a, jerk a trigger, you know, and I'm hoping it kind of lands in the realm of where it's supposed to. So anyway, well, we appreciate you, Travis. I hope we didn't take too much of your time. Hey, absolutely. It's been a pleasure working with you guys and looking forward to getting some more rifles your way. Cass, you should be there in the mail any day now. We're shooting on Adams, some 180 Acubons, the Acubon guys. We'll have a 300 PRC headed that way here shortly, too. That's awesome. I think I'm going to give you a call after. I think we'll probably be looking at a 7mm PRC for me. So, 7mm PRC. Perfect. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. That sounds good. All right. Okay. Well, we sure appreciate you, Travis. And if you need anything from us, let us know. And we wish you the absolute best this fall. Of course, we're going to smash some giants.

I hope you do, too. That's the plan. It's just positive thinking. We're just trying to manifest it. So, we're definitely going to have to do this again, though, because I still have more questions. But we've got to let him get... Oh, yeah. We could go on another hour here with a technical deep dive pretty easily. We should. And we should. We get to choose how often we talk to you. So, let's make it happen. It's fine. We have no red tape here. That'll be awesome. All right. Okay. Sounds good. Well, have a great day. Hey, you guys, too. Thank you much. You bet. All right. All right. Bye.

Okay. Sounds good. That was pretty awesome. That was aggressive.

How do we get a hold of... We can go on the website and check out all this stuff, John. I think you were there. Yeah. TS Customs. Yes. Let me grab the phone number. Yeah. Anyway, pretty awesome. Wealth of knowledge there. I wanted to pick his brain about... I see some of... I enjoy watching his videos. And he's in South Dakota where it's just whipping wind all the time. Yeah. You know, some of his wind holding... I don't know. It's just impressive. It's kind of cool. It is. It's tscustomerifles.com. You can go on there and check out the builds and whatnot. And give him a call. He'll answer the phone. That's the one thing he's good at. He's got great employees. He's got great staff that care. He's got... He's all hands-on on his business. And then he also deals with the customer personally. So, it's pretty awesome.

He's just kind of in that real sweet spot of a good-sized business, produces great product, and has the backing to be able to do what he needs to do. R&D and new products and things like that, but also still deal with the customer. So, anyway, guys, remember how we were talking that stuff is dying? Stuff is dying. There's guys standing over bucks right now that we need to know about that we don't know about yet. Congratulations, y'all. I wish it was us standing over those critters. But our buddy Zach Griffith smashed a really big deer there in Nevada. It's a deer kind of new about, but it's just awesome. A ton of eye guards, kind of a big deer, old... He called him an old troll, and it does feel that way. But, anyway, I wouldn't mind getting the story from him. Should we give him a call? And I'm kind of... We're out. How deep are we into this thing? An hour and 15?

And if we don't slow Zach down, we're going to be 215, which we never do. So, anyway, but I do want the story just because it's fresh. You know what it's like when you talk to somebody that just killed something? They can't talk fast enough. They're super clear. They're amped up. It's like they had four white monsters, which nobody out there should have four except for me. Three's okay. I know. I probably developed a little bit of an immunity to them. I'd drink one right before bed. But I'm doing better. And so, anyway, think we should give him a holler, Wyatt? Yeah. Let's give him a call. See what the heck? See how it went down? Yes. See how it went down. Let's grind him out for the exact details. Larson. Larson. What's up? Oh, just grinning ear to ear. So, we're talking rifles on the podcast, and then you're out there smashing with a bow. So, let's start off. You drew a tag in Nevada?

Yeah. It took me 18 years. You guys know the area. I definitely was still left out. I believe it takes quite a bit more than that to be popped in. But, yeah, it just hit the golden jackpot and knew Travis and lined it up. Yeah. All right. So, you drew a tag. Then you ended up booking with Travis Levitt. But then, how does it go down from there? Obviously, you've got a hit list. Travis does his research and, of course, scouting and whatnot and is a killer. But then, how does this end up going down? Yeah. So, you know, Nevada cut trail cams August 1. So, all these bucks were still growing. All the pictures we had were like, what's he going to do? That back end, look at how it's pumping out. Like, you just, your eyes and your brain are just filling in gaps. You're like, oh, my goodness. The back end of that deer is going to be huge. So, all these bucks were like, he could be this big.

He could be this big. But the one that caught my eye, Jason, was grown out to the tips. And he was just this old, massive troll with tons of eye guards and character and this big banana bean that I swear is 30 inches, you know, just looking at the video and the pictures. And that's the one I wanted. I mean, he's not the highest scoring in there. But when you see this deer, he's just a dinosaur, dude. He just has every boxes checked. He's so cool. Well, there's nothing wrong with mass and crazy amounts of basal points and eye guards. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely. It's kind of important, actually. It's kind of important. Yeah. Kind of a big deal.

All right. So, did you settle on this deer or have you been glassing for other bucks, too? Yeah, we knew he was the big dog in that basin. So, he was my priority. So, night before the opener, of course, he showed up. They saw him out there feeding. And they're like, you know, you're going to kill him first thing in the morning. You know how that goes. Yeah. So, we're real cocky and confident rolling out there in the dark. And they got spotters on the ridges. And I'm down in the valley just kind of waiting to get, you know, like the defensive coordinator up in the box just telling me where to be and stuff. So, no one saw him. They saw a couple of his buddies, a couple 180 bucks that were real pretty. That night, same thing. We got in there again. He wasn't where they thought he'd be. Yesterday morning, same thing. And then last night, he just showed up.

And I got in front of him and cut him off. And luckily, he was the first in the group and just lasered him. Come on. Is it really that easy, Zach? Like, is it really that easy? Jason, when you put him on a string sometimes, he's even up. He's a straight liar. He's a straight liar. You're not that good, Zach. No, I'm not. The deer ran into my arrow. It was like a common cause.

Oh, it's awesome, man. Just cut him off and killed him. I killed him, dude. He's dead. I got it. I promise. He's dead. I got just a very, very glimpse of a recap before we decided to throw you on the podcast. You were talking about some body parts and whatnot. What did this broadhead do to this deer? It's the wildest thing, dude.

He's fortering away, looking downhill. I got all the time in the world to level my feet, draw back, settle my pin. I shot that. I'm telling you, it came off clean as a whistle. I didn't second guess. I'm like, I 12 ring that sucker. I heard the arrow zip through him. It made that sound where no bone, just that brutal. It's just savage. You know you double lunged him. I heard the arrow clanging down the hill. I'm like, I just laced that sucker. And he turns and runs. And I couldn't see any blood, but it was chaos. He's got five buddies, so they're scattering. And I'm jumping up and down like a moron. I always lose my cool. So he's tearing up the canyon. He slid off from his buddy. So right off the bat, I'm like, that's good. But he's jumping 30 feet, just pouncing, just tearing through the brush. And I gave him 30 minutes. I went and found my arrow, and I picked it up.

And it's clean as a whistle. And I said, what the heck is going on here? I know I hit that deer. Well, I picked up the arrow, and I inspected it. And it was a clean pass-through, but it had hit body fat. And that fat had just greased it and just sucked everything off. So even on the fletchings, I smelled it. It smelled really clean. I thought I saw some arterial blood. It was real bright. But that fat had just, he's just so porked out that it really did. It just squeegeed the arrow on the way out. And then I found blood right where I shot him. There's a pipe, like bright red foam. Yeah, foamy blood. So I'm like, at least I got a single lung. And I start tracking. I gave him 30 minutes. I said, one of my buddies, Fish, came down to help me and track him. And we're just zigzagging and finding good blood. But he's jumping so far. We're really just looking for the tracks in the dirt.

And we're picking up the blood as he sprays. And about 150 yards in, it's been an hour, I look down on the ground, and there's a big chunk of guts. And I'm like, what the heck? Like, we got arterial blood, but we got guts on the ground. Like, this is not good. And that arrow doesn't see so much. I knew there was more to this story. I knew there was more to this story. I like it. You're a human, Zach. You're a human. I like it. This is all good news, believe it or not. It actually slowed him down. So we eventually figured out, I think the buck spun on the shot, and I entered, like, hard, hard quarter back rib, and it came out through his femoral artery. So, like, I was heartbroken. I'm like, I'm so embarrassed. I don't know what happened with that arrow. I swear I crushed him. And, I mean, it was so confusing. We found one of his beds, and there's a, you know, a base,

or excuse me, a pie plate-sized chunk of dark blood. And then on the back, there's gut blood. And I'm like, did that arrow just go, like, and just zigzag through his body and cut every, you know, possible orifice? Sounds like the guillotine broadhead that they use on turkeys to rip their heads off, you know. Yeah, but it's just a cut-on contact slip trick revival. So it's a big, solid head, but I couldn't believe the wound channel. It just tore him up. So, yeah, we left him last night because I got real discouraged, and it was nice and cool. And the rain clouds looked like they were on the horizon. They had stars above us. And we all just decided as a crew, just let's back out. And we got in there this morning, and, oh, like, maybe 200 yards from where we left him, that sucker had ran straight uphill and just gave up.

And believe it or not, he died this morning because he was warm as can be, dude. What? He went through it? Yes. He made it through the night, dude. He was so warm. When I pulled his head out of the cedar, I thought it was going to be stiff, and it just flopped up like a wet noodle. Wow. I mean, he was warm as can be. So you made the right call last night, it sounds like. A hundred percent. Yeah, it was. And you know how hard that is. You just want to get him and close him out for the night. But I just knew he's going to be there in the morning. What difference does it make? I mean, this was midnight, so we're like five hours. Yeah, safer. Five hours from now, he'll be there either way. So it worked out, man. I'm just so humbled and stoked. It's the best deer I've ever killed. Is it? That's awesome. Oh, yeah. Good for you. Yeah. That's awesome. Man. All right.

We'll stay out of Nevada from now on. Oh, I won't be back for 50 years, I guess. Good. Good. When he's 90. Unless Devin will pick up a leftover for me.

I feel like I don't have that kind of luck anymore. No. No. Don't even try, Zach. Don't even try. No. Oh. That's pretty awesome. So tell us about him. I haven't, like, what is he? Oh. Yeah, so he's a. Let me show you. Yeah, Carter's got picks. He's a 30-inch mainframe, 3x4. He's got a 30-inch beam on the left. And I think the right's probably high 20s. He's got, like, 9 or 10 eye guards, and they're all, like, 4 to 7 inches long. Yeah. I mean, his bases are 8 inches plus. He's so heavy, dude. That's awesome. And he carries his mask. His G3s are bladed. Like, you don't get credit for 90% of the character on that sucker. He's just heavy all the way out. He's just awesome. Oh, he's so cool, dude. Beautiful cape. Just that transition cape. He's got the copper belly with the black back. And you said super old? He's going to look so good on a pencil. Yeah. I'm looking at his teeth.

He's got to be 6. But, you know, I've never killed a deer in this terrain, so I don't know what the brows is. I mean, he's eating service berries. I don't know what that just does to teeth. I'm guessing he's at least a 6-year-old, but I'll get him aged for sure. Those eye guards are to die for. They're bananas, dude. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. He is so freaking cool. He is so cool. I love that he's a 3x4. He just makes him more of a troll. He's just so – he's just awesome. He's a desert. You shot a bad genetic bug. Get him out of there. Get pulling. Pulling. He's not. That deer is no joke. I love that deer. Jason, I mean it full-hearted. Like, I couldn't have dreamt of a better deer to burn my points on. I'm so lucky. So awesome. Yeah, it's so awesome. I'm always a character guy. I just love that deer. Yeah. He's just awesome. So – Oh, what now?

Are you going to stick around and spot glass for other hunters? Oh, no. I miss my kids, and I got a wife that does not get it, so I'm out of here today. Oh, really? You're throwing her under the bus right now? Geez. Yeah. Yeah, she's like – her first text was, fool, when will you be home? That's neat, dude. That's really neat. Last I knew is three hours and 14 minutes home. I mean, you'll be here in about 320. Yeah. She doesn't know I got to go to St. George and drop it off at Jeff, and then I got to hang out with him for two hours. I probably won't get home until tomorrow morning, but I'm going to joke in the truck. He's always good for a good shot. Oh, yeah. He's – He'll take in some of the best. Yeah. Yeah. If this deer – if Jeff was a deer, he'd look like this. That's what I'm thinking. That's a good point. I think you're right. I think you're right. Call him JB. Jeff Beard.

I'm going to call him Banana because of that left beam. It's a big banana.

He's so cool, man. I can't stop staring at him. That's pretty awesome. Well, congratulate. You're going to leave him in the velvet, I guess. You're probably preserved. Oh, yeah. It's plump and juicy. He died so peacefully. He just laid his head down. There's not a nick on it. It's the best velvet I've ever seen. Pretty awesome. Pretty fun. Well, I love giving you a hard time. So, anyway, I'm glad you're good. No, I'll take it. I appreciate you guys, man. You know me. I've been eyeballing Nevada for a long time, so I finally got to hunt the country that you guys have made so infamous. I wouldn't say you over-talk, but you definitely – I knew what was coming. I told my wife I might be here for a month, so just brace, you know. Yeah. But I made it – I lucked out, dude. I can't even believe it happened so quick. Pretty fun. Pretty awesome. Yep. All right.

Well, thanks for sharing your story with us. We appreciate it. Kind of – we know there's guys standing over deer right now that we're going to find out about here in a few days. And so it's just hard to be here in the office with a headset on. That's really hard. But – It's really hard. Well, I appreciate you guys. I'm just returning the favor. I live off of your stories as well. Awesome. So I'm grateful to be on here, finally get to pitch into the crew, you know. It's really cool. You bet. Well, congratulations again. Let it soak in a bit. Tell Jeff we said, hey, you're having the right guy mounted. That's awesome. And, yeah, if you ever need anything else, let us know. All right? Thanks, fellas. Make sure D Creek gets a shout-out. These guys – Travis is just incredible. These are good dudes. No one hunts harder. Yeah, but if you didn't have any clients, there'd be more big deer.

That's why you get on the winning team. We'll probably delete all this.

All right. Okay. Sounds good, buddy. See you soon. All right. Talk to you later. That's pretty awesome. Dang it. It's a cool deer. It is a cool deer. Dang it, he's awesome. Mostly we're just living through other people right now. It's just hard. It's cool. Pretty awesome. Pretty fun. I like that story. Yeah, I walked up there, cut him off, and smoked him. Yeah, I smoked him.

Didn't he say double lunged him? No, he said laser. Laser. Oh, did he? That's awesome. I did that once. I shot a buck. He had his head down, watering, and he was, like, facing me kind of. But his butt was higher. I shot. I mean, right where I was aiming, he goes up, I hear a crash. And I'm like, well, he died fast. And then all of a sudden, I see him come running back around, like, two minutes later. And I'm like, holy moly. And he's doing the death run. Yeah. Just like he said, 30-foot bounds. Yeah. The arrow came out way back down here. Yeah. And you know that fat that holds their guns? Like, some people eat it. What is it called? It's like a spider web of fat. I don't know. It was hanging on a bush right behind him. It was crazy. Anyways. Yeah.

I'm sick of doing being on the podcast right now. It's about lunchtime. We've done, what, an hour and a half? That's pretty good. Loki's getting hangry over there. I'm real upset. Can't you tell? Anyway. All right. So what are we going to do? Do we have anything you want to do anymore? Do we want to do, like, photo contests like kills? Or?

I think just a shout-out to, you know, download the new app. It's out. And you can give it a seven-day free trial. Okay. Yeah. Seven-day free trial on the Epic Outdoors app. It's incredible. Get on it. Also, we're selling optics like it's our freaking job. It's been crazy. I feel like people have held off a little bit, Wyatt. Like, just the economy. I don't know. Maybe just am I really going hunting this year? I don't know. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, crap. I need some optics. Yeah. It went from slow to hot really fast. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're needing anything, we have SIG stabilized binals in stock. They're very popular. We have a lot of COA spotters. Really popular. The Incredible Glass. Anything Swarro. Very popular, obviously. Swarro is a household name when it comes to optics. No joke. Yeah. So. And our tripods have been flying out the door. Yeah.

Tripods are going crazy. Get one. You won't be disappointed. This is about the time of year we start doing everything two-day shipping.

On every purchase. Hey, can you do two-day shipping on that? Yeah. I've had you guys just overnight it, and you're like, dude. It's $120. They don't care. Yeah. That's funny. It's important.

Their lives depend on it. This is true. Happy dudes. All right. Well, anyway, if you need anything, let us know. We're here, unfortunately. We're here. We love you. And we wish you the absolute best out in the hills, and we'll be out there with you at some point soon. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic-approved outfitters and members-only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas.

No more applying for a unit where there has been a die-off. And no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home. Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new Guide Pro Series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time-consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again, the Epic Outdoors License Application Service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes.

Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications. You'll never miss a deadline, you'll never apply for the wrong unit, and you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die-off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors License App. 435-263-0777. With Fierce Rifles, every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry, and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long-range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next Fierce Rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official Fierce Rifle dealer.

Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 435-263-0777. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer, and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to EpicOptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777. If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the West. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to StJamesSportingProperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more.

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