EP 4: Long Range Hunting & Precision Shooting with Todd Sholly

He killed a freaking stud. Heavy, big ol' eye-guarded. And the wind was just, the wind was blowing so hard, there were pine cones just shooting across the canyon. It's critical at that guns level, so you can hold the right wind. Anything to do with Western big game. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. In these episodes, we sit down with some of the leaders in the hunting industry and extract valuable information ideas that will help you become more educated and a successful hunter. Today we've got a special guest. We've got Todd Shawley of Red Rock Precision. He's an awesome guy. I've known him for a lot of years, and they produce some of the finest rifles we've ever seen. We've used them quite extensively. Adam Bronson within the Epic Outdoors team

He's used them with all of his clients and a lot of his personal kills, and they're killing everything from zero to a thousand yards with them, and could probably even do further if he wanted to. So, nothing but respect for these guys. Known them for a long, long time. They're very serious hunters. They live here in Utah, which maybe I'm a little bit biased, but when you make good products, you make good products. So, anyway, welcome, Todd. Good to be here. Thank you. You betcha. We really appreciate you spending a little time with us and our listeners. So, give us a little bit of your history and a little bit of background.

Well, I, you know, grew up in a little town of U.N. at the mouth of Weaver Canyon there, and lived there my whole entire life. I still live there, and it was a small little farming community, and I was able to go out and trap and hunt and do all those things just as a young boy, and it's a little different now, but that's... It's a little different. Where I grew up and what I did. Awesome. And so, give me a little bit of your hunting background or what you did just, you know, prior to, you know, to working and developing Red Rock. Well, you know, my dad introduced me to hunting at a young age, and, you know, we went down to Beaver every year, and he always bow hunted, and I tagged along. Yeah. And so, you know, that's just kind of what I've done, and over the years, I've just kind of done my own thing.

He passed away at a young age, and so, just have been hunting with my boys and doing things with them, and that's what I do. So, in regards to the rifles, have you always been a gun nut? Was it something you just kind of became interested in long range and needed better equipment, or how did this evolve? You know, I was an archery guy at first. I mean, that's all I did was bow hunt for, you know, from the time I was married at 20 to about 27, 28 years old. All I did was archery hunt. That's all I did. I would shoot my bow every morning and every night before I went to work. And I don't know if I got tired of that, but I just wanted to change. And Kurt, my partner, he kind of moved into my neighborhood, and he liked to shoot guns, and I liked to shoot guns. And kind of how we got introduced to this, and we started going every Saturday.

We'd take our guns, and we'd go out over by Woodruff, and we'd set up our own targets, and we'd just shoot. That's kind of how it started. And so, you guys developed a strong friendship. We did, yeah. And then, just, is he, what are some of his talents? Did he bring some of the, you know, different manufacturing pieces together, or how did this evolve into this? Yeah, you know, we were both a lot the same. You know, he loved to hunt, and he loved guns, and I loved guns, and Kurt's really good with numbers. That's what he's really good at. He's, you know, he's our machinist, and he's a very, very technical guy.

Well, I know when I've got a new gun coming from you guys, and I can't wait to get it. Of course, I'm a fan of new guns. I just can't get my hands on enough guns. But he went over things with me and said, you know, I'm personally building this rifle. And I think that's what you guys do. You guys handle each gun, specifically. You know, we only build 150 guns a year. But the 150 guns that we build, they're perfect. Or they don't go out. You know, I mean, some of these guys are building five, six hundred, a thousand rifles. That's absolutely right. So, tell us about the early days of Red Rock. Like, how have things changed since you started this? You remember? I remember. I was in your basement, or his basement. I can't even remember which basement I was in. Yeah, no, he was in his basement, but what I remember is the first time we came down to Cedar City, we brought those guns down there.

Yes. Do you remember that? Yeah, I totally remember. And I knew you guys weren't impressed with those guns. I mean, they shot good, you know, but no. They shot awesome, but they were heavy. They were heavy. And not that you can't pack a few extra pounds, but for some reason, I mean, to throw a little more weight in my backpack, you know, doesn't seem like a lot, but when you're actually holding a gun down to your side, and it's, you know, 10 or 11 pounds versus seven, it's quite a difference. Absolutely. No, and we, you know, we listened to you guys, and you told us your thoughts, and instead of taking that personal, we changed. I mean, you saw our guns in our booth yesterday. They're amazing. They're totally different. They're made seven and a half pounds with the Yeah, yeah. Amazing rifles. So, you know, instead of being stubborn or, you know, saying,

hey, we don't want anything to do with it, we did what the people want. Yeah. And guys want a lighter rifle. They want a good rifle, but they want a lighter. And so, you would say, like, that's the major change you've seen is, A, we had this product, and then we've adapted and building products that people want. Now, there's still somebody that wants that 10 or 11-pound rifle, a bench-rest shooter. There is. Somebody that's not concerned about weight. And I like a heavy rifle. I do like Sitting behind a 10 or 11, 12 pound gun, it's something about it, and you feel like it's more accurate. You just feel solid. Well, they are. I mean, you know, and guys will ask us why a heavy gun. I mean, and if you watch the show American Sniper, Chris Kyle, that gun's 23 pounds.

You know what I mean? But there's a reason why it's 23 pounds. You know, the heavier guns are usually more accurate, but you can still have a lightweight, you know, a seven and a half pound rifle that shoots really, really good. Yep. And so, what would you say are Red Rock strengths? Like, what do you guys specialize in? Why would somebody choose a Red Rock over something else? What we do is totally different than everybody else. When we build a rifle specific for a guy, the ammunition specific for that rifle. So, that guy is getting his own ammunition with his gun. So, we'll take that rifle out, we'll break it in, and then we work up a load specific for that gun, and we fine tune it to get it to where we want it.

And we just keep track of that serial number and the guy's name, and guys call us up every day all week just saying, this is so and so, my serial number this, and we load them up ammo and send it. Yes, you know, I do like that. You know, a lot of companies don't want to deal with building ammo. I don't know if there's some legal things with it or some liability, but a lot of companies want to give the rifle and then not ever see it again. Yeah, or, you know, some of these bigger companies that are selling a lot of rifles, they ship out the same ammo with every single gun. So, obviously, you know, if you got 10 guns, one of those 10 is going to shoot better than the other nine. Yes. It's just going to happen. But if you worked up a load with each specific gun, and that gun had its own recipe, maybe all 10 could shoot the same.

Absolutely. That's your point. For sure. Okay. All right. Awesome. Well, in your opinion, you know, and you've dealt with this a lot, I don't know anybody that would deal with it more than you and your partner, obviously, but, you know, what are the most important factors in accurate shooting? Like, what are some of the most important factors that affect the accuracy of long range shooting? Well, you know, you gotta have an accurate rifle to start with, and it's like anything else, you gotta practice.

Yeah. You know, but as far as components, you know, your stock and your barrel and all those things, all that goes into that. It factors into that. So, it's...and guys just need to practice. Yeah. You know, I think you're 100% right. They do need to practice, but, you know, one of the things I've found with taking clients over the years and whatnot is they just don't pay attention to the little things. It's one thing to go out and have a lead sled or have all these sandbags and different things, but when you're in the field, you don't have that. And so, what I try to do is take a Harris bipod, which is my favorite, I don't know, and you might be able to enlighten us because you've done a lot. I know there's a lot of bipods out there, but I'm using a Harris, and it's to support the front and to support the back.

So, you know, it's one thing to support the front and then snuggle in on it and not have support, but you're bringing it into your shoulder. It's another thing to put a backpack or something under the back too, you know, as if you were at the range.

Yeah. And then bring it into your shoulder and just be really tight with it and be solid, so if you were to let go of it, it would still be on your target. Right. I find, you know, and I don't know, you know, about you guys, and I know you've dealt with a lot of different shooters coming through the course and shooting your range and whatnot, but I find that to be, you know, making sure the gun's level, to go through all these steps, and it's just kind of, it needs to become natural. It's one thing to, you know, pull the trigger a thousand times, but it's another thing to think, okay, I've got the gun in, the front's supported, the back's supported, the back's supported. I support it, it's level, it's into my shoulder, it's level, I check that two or three times, and then just squeeze it.

And maybe the level, you know, is more important on a reticle where, you know, at the bottom of the scope, that if it's tilted, canid one side or the other, your shot's going to be off a lot more. Sure. Where that, if you don't have the gun level, where that will really hurt you is if, you know, let's say you're going to take an 800-yard shot at an antelope or something out in the desert, and the wind's blowing 10 miles an hour, it's critical that that gun's level so you can hold the right wind. That's where guys, they don't even think about those things. Yeah, they don't even think about it. And when you're out antelope hunting, I mean, there's wind. There's wind. Like southern Wyoming. I mean, you know, wherever, there's a, you know, you're gonna find wind out in that wide open country. So, anyway, well, I know you guys have done a great job. I've experienced your facilities

and seen what you guys do and the care that you put into it. And I know, you know, I mean, There's just nobody better in our industry for what we're doing. But how do you feel a hunter can be more prepared to make a shot under pressure, whether it's a technical shot or a quick high-pressure moment? Like, what do you think a guy could do to help that? Well, you know what? At the gun range we used to shoot at, I would see guys about, I don't know, the first of September, all of a sudden guys would start showing up to the range, and they're setting up their guns on the benches. And they would sight their guns in, and then they'd say, well, I'm ready to go. You know, that was it. They just sighted them in at the range. You know, you got to go out. You know, me and Kurt, we'll go out, we'll get in the mountains, we'll shoot downhill, we'll shoot uphill.

It's one thing to shoot off of a real sturdy cement bench with a nice rest. You got to get out in hunting situations and lay down and shoot prone and do all those things. You know, what I felt has helped me over the years is just shooting a lot of coyotes. I know it doesn't, or shooting at them. You know, not a lot of people, I mean, it's tough to kill a coyote. They do have a, you know, a small body under all that fur, but just getting out of the truck, getting down on the ground, and making a shot wherever the coyote is. You gotta range him quick or whatever, and go ahead and use your .30 caliber rifle to do that. Like, that's practice, you know what I mean? And just being out in the hills and doing that. It may be even a jackrabbit at 400 yards or 300 or whatever, but just that little bit of practice. It's a lot of practice. There's a lot more going into it than a guy might think.

Anyway, what do you think? What's your opinion? Turrets versus radicals. I know, and I'm of the opinion, every system works. Every system does work from what I've found. But, like, there's pluses and minuses, and just wanted kind of your opinion on that. And then what you guys like? Well, we use the turret system, you know. I mean, it's, you know, if you look at your military, you know, everything they use is clicks, MOA, you know. And that's really the most precise you can get. But there's guys like you. You like the reticle system and the holdover. And you practice with that, and you're efficient with it. So, my opinion on that is it's whatever you practice with and what you're comfortable with. Yeah, and I agree with you. What I've had, some guys have said, well, I'm not sure I like the turrets because, you know, it's mechanical. Mechanical things fail. Right.

And you have some scopes that don't have the stop or whatever, so you end up rolling it over. I've seen that happen a lot. And it'll affect somebody, you know, on a 30-inch buck, it would crush me. It happened to my son last year in Wyoming. I had it on zero, but it was around once. Jeez. How do you avoid that? Is there certain scopes that won't let you do that? Tell me about that. No, they'll all do that. It was my fault. It was my rifle, but it was all my fault. He's shooting, and this deer's not even moving. It's a 185-inch deer. It's the last day in Wyoming. It's a snowstorm, and the deer runs off, and I grab the gun, and I wind it, and I wind it again. He was probably shooting 20-30 feet over that deer. So, it was dad's fault, you know? Well, geez, I don't know if I could get over that on a 200-inch deer. I just want to shoot myself. I know it. Yeah. Geez.

No, it was, that can happen. But you know what else can happen, and I found this with the reticles, is the reticles come in at different yardages depending on the power. They do. And so, you know, like when you're in tight situations, I turn the power down, and you know, if we're going through, Especially after we've shot a buck and we're going up to him, I turn the power down, but you forget to turn that power back up if you ever turn it down. Yeah, I did that. I've done that before, too. I did that in the early years, did that same thing. Yeah, and your yardage is off, and you're gonna miss the deer. So, there's a little, there's plus and minuses on both of them. I found, too, you know, the reticles are different depending on the speed of the bullet and the ballistic coefficient and the weight and all of these factors.

And so, you know, you run your computer program, and I usually I've used it, like, say I'm using a Swarovski scope, they've got an app, and then I'll screenshot the app, put it on my screen shaver, put it on my lock screen, and that's the, you know, that is the particular yardage for that reticle at the certain elevation, and I'm guessing an average temperature. You know what I mean? So, like you said, it's not an exact science. Like, you could be a lot more, or a slight more exacting on a reticle, and I totally understand that. Where the holdover has its weakness, and I don't shoot one, so you tell me, but where we see guys really struggle with those is, I was with a guy that was shooting at a deer in Colorado, and it was like 39 degrees uphill. Yeah. And he was way, way off. He was just holding with that. Yeah.

So, I don't know how you calculate that. Well, a lot of it is just, well, you know, for me, it's those angle compensating rangefinders. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then, too, and I'm old school, but I, so, and it's kind of odd, but, but I have an app on my phone with the level, it's a level app. Yeah. And I'll run it down the barrel, and that'll tell me a 15 degree angle, 20 degree angle, and I've got an angle chart taped to my scope in the, in the, in the event that, you know, something failed on my rangefinder or whatnot, but, but you're right. I mean, you're shooting up or downhill. Either way, you're going to have a different yardage, and you need to know that yardage. You do. Whether you're dialing, or you've got reticles. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. So, anyway, all systems work. They do work.

I have used, in the past, the Zeiss Rapid Z800 reticle, and I'll actually hope that it's accurate, but I will run a ballistic and match that bullet speed, like a 180 Acubon going 3,100 feet a second, .30 caliber, comes in perfect on 5,000 feet in elevation. All of those reticles match up perfectly all the way down to eight. So, eight's 800. And then it's got quarter hashes. Well, that's good for my kids. So, they're shooting 500 yards. Hey, you know, use the five. You know what I mean? I do. But, I'm going to use the turrets. I'm going to work on the turrets. It'd be nice for clients, myself, and kids to dial, basically use one main crosshair, and know that it's ready. Yeah.

And it can be a little more exacting. So, I'm kind of excited to get into that. I've just had a little bit of an issue with the size of the turret, and they're hanging up on your pack, and they dial and mess, you know what I mean? Yeah, we hear that all the time. And so, maybe, do they make small, low profile? Well, like the Swarovski you were talking about, it's a low profile turret. Is it? Yeah. So, and you know the scopes, you know like the Night Force, that's a really big bulky turret. Yes. And you know the Huskamaw that we use, it's not real big. It's a three-quarter inch turret, you know. So, but you know, and the other thing that we hear that, you know, guys might want to know is we've had guys put those guns in scabbards and stuff with horses, and there's been some problems with that.

That makes it a little bit of a problem. Yeah, it does. Well, and so, when a guy comes to you, will you use any scope? Or, you know, you probably like the Huskma, you deal in the Huskma, but if you wanted a Swarovski, would you do it for him? Absolutely, we do it all the time. Okay. You know, me and you talked about that yesterday. So, we want the customer to have what they want. Okay. And if a guy, we've had guys that want to put a Vortex on, or a Zeiss, or whatever. And you're fine with that? Yeah, absolutely. So, having said that, there's probably some scopes you feel like are maybe slightly more accurate than others, and you don't have to mention it on here, but it is a reflection on maybe your gun. So, let's say you threw the cheapest Simmons on there or something, and you were shooting 800 yards, you might gasp a little bit, because you don't want

it to be a reflection on your gun. It's probably not going to work. Okay. Let's just be honest. Yeah, be honest. Yeah, for sure. It's probably not going to work. And so, yeah, I think, I mean, even though you will use everything, you do make recommendations. Yeah, I just think if a guy's going to spend six or seven or eight thousand dollars on a gun, he's not going to put a cheap scope on it. I understand that. You know what I mean? I understand that. But you probably hear of everything. I've heard it all. Yeah. Tell me about these new calibers. Like, I have no knowledge, I know the .28 Nosler and some of the different calibers that are coming out. I've always shot a, well, I went from a .300 Weatherby to a .300 Ultra Mag, and you know, I like .22, .250. I mean, there's a few basics that are in my closet, but I mean,

tell me about these new calibers and what you're finding accuracy-wise and effectiveness-wise. God, the effectiveness on both the .28 and the .30 Nosler is incredible. Just the videos and the pictures and the stories from the guys. The .30 Nosler, it's just a really, really accurate caliber. I remember the first one that we chambered and we did. That was probably about a year ago. The guys at Nosler sent us a Reamer, and you know, we're good friends with those guys. But we built one, and it didn't matter what bullet or what powder I used, that gun shot good. Wow. It's just one of those rounds. Give me the layman's terms. What's the difference between a .38 Nozzler and a .300 Ultramag? Like, what is it? The .30 Nozzler versus the .300 Ultramag? Well, you know that .300 Ultramag is just a bigger case, and that's what I shoot. I think that's what you hunt with. That's what I'm shooting.

It's a longer case. They don't feed quite as good in the heat of the moment. Speed-wise? Speed-wise, the .300 Ultramag is faster. Is it? It is, yeah, it's quite a bit, but you know, you're shooting 93, 94 grains of Rotombo out of that 300 Ultramag, That's exactly right. versus, you know, 80 grains of another powder. Really? Yeah, and less recoil with that 30-losser. Really? But it's just, it's a really, really accurate round. So, in saying all that, is it something like, how is the energy downrange? Do we have enough energy, plenty for elk? I mean... Oh, yeah, yeah.

So, you're looking 2,900 feet a second, like what's a nozzle running? Yeah, the 30 nozzle, you know, whether it's a 210 or a 190, they're around 3,000 feet per second, somewhere right there. Okay. So, it's right there. What's interesting, though, is there was this fad, maybe, what do you think, five years ago about speed was king. Oh, yeah. You know, so, when you came out with a Wildcat cartridge or a new cartridge, it was always faster and better and bigger. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like shooting a 180, going 3,700. Yeah. Now, we come out with a new cartridge. The shooting's a little slower. A slow hit's better than a fast missed, right? Yeah, I'd say. Yeah, for sure. So, it's just all about accuracy. You know, like we've talked about the holdover reticles and the turrets,

whether it's slow or fast, that'll get it there. Yeah, it will. And I think, too, you know, like we talked a little bit about yesterday, is, you know, whether you're, let's say a bullet's dropping 160 inches at 900 yards or something, I mean, I mean, or he's dropping 143 inches, like what's the difference? We're gonna have to compensate a lot of inches. Yeah, a lot of inches. And so, just a few more inches, if it's a more accurate round, it's a little bit slower, it's not that big of a deal. It's not a big deal. Yeah. It's all about accuracy. Yeah, it's everything. Yeah. Well, how, I don't know if you want to get into the components of your rifle. I notice I like the look of your brake on there. I mean, Is there pluses and minuses to different breaks out there, accuracy-wise, noise-wise? A muzzle break's a muzzle break. They're all noisy.

But what I've noticed is when you're out hunting, and you've got a 200-inch deer out there, the last thing you're thinking is, oh, this is going to hurt my ears, right? Yeah. You just shoot. You just shoot. You just shoot. I know. And I never really noticed that after. I've got bad hearing in my left ear right now, really bad. In fact, I would miss college tests and whatnot, you know, because I was laying on one ear, My alarm would be going off in the other. I'm lucky I even made it through college. Got you. Anyway, but my point nowadays is, you know, I try to use hearing protection, but when I'm in the field, I just know that there's going to be five or six rounds, or maybe hopefully more if there's, you know, we've got more tags, but that I'm just going to take it in the ears, you know what I mean, so to speak. It's not a big deal. It's one of those things you're going to give

up a little bit to make sure that you can hear the people around you, you can hear your surroundings So, what can people do to become more prepared in the field? Is it just, you know, becoming, like, you get a guy that comes in and gets a rifle. I mean, a lot of these guys, you know, haven't had the good fortune to hunt like you and I have, kill coyotes every day, go out and have guns in their trucks. I mean, they might live in the city, they might live back east. Like, you know, in my opinion, they need to become familiar with rifles in general, plus your rifle. Yeah, well, that's one thing that we offer. Every guy that buys a rifle from us, we invite them to come and pick it up. We have guys from all over the United States all year long. Yeah. And the reason we invite them is so they know how to use it. Yeah. You know, they don't know the turret system.

They don't know anything about parallax adjustment. So, we take them to the range and we shoot. Okay. So, a guy buys a rifle. Mm-hmm. He comes out and picks it up. You want him to. We want him to. You ship them out too, but you want them to come. Mm-hmm. And then tell me a little, I've been to your range, but tell the listeners about your range a little bit. Well, it's out of Morgan, about seven, eight miles, and just an awesome range. It's on the backside of the Wasatch Front. Yeah. Yeah, you know where the towers are there in Farmington. We're just south and west of there a little bit, but incredible range. We got targets out to a mile. Wow. Yes, we start at two and just go from there. So, how many yards is a mile? That's 17. 1742, I think. Yeah, exactly. Something like that. So, have you shot a mile? I have.

Can you shoot accurate at a mile? I can hit a 12-inch plate. Can you really? Is this with a 12-pound gun or what gun I ordered? That gun will do it. It might take us a couple rounds. Wow. But that's a long, miles a long ways. What caliber were you using? 300 Ultra Mag. Were you? Kurt hits it all the time, but he's got a .338. Kurt and Josh both shoot .338s. Holy cow. What's funny is you shoot, and you don't hear anything, and you think you've missed it, and then it hits. It's crazy. Well, it's pretty addicting. You know, and I think a lot of this long-range stuff is, there's ethics involved in everything, and you can abuse everything and everything. Absolutely. But, if I feel like, and I found this, like, if I feel like I can shoot 11 or 1200, and we were shooting jackrabbits at 1200, if I feel like I can do that, these 600-yard shots are nothing. That's true.

And have yet to miss at 600. You know what I mean? Yeah, and you don't want to say that lightly, but that's really the truth. It's the truth. It feels, it's just like shooting a bow of these guys that are good at 100 yards or 120 yards. It's not that they want to kill something at 120, but all of a sudden, 70 and 60 and 50 and 40 and 30 are absolute chip shots. Yeah, that's true. And so, there's a lot of variables, but you get more and more confident the more time you spend at long range, you know? So, well, do you want to share any kind of a quick hunting story or one of your favorite hunting stories or hunting memories? It's not a hard one. So, I was, it was three years ago, I was hunting with my bow in Wyoming, opening day, and you know Dusty Nelson. Oh yeah. Him and his father-in-law. Yeah, he was with us,

and my hunting buddy's his father-in-law. But, so we took the llamas, and we're packed back in, you know, to a place where we go in Region H in Wyoming, and it's opening day, and we see this buck that I saw the year before, just 50 yards from where I saw him the last time, you know, Just a different year. Yeah. And, you know, so I got my bow, and they're talking me into going over there. He's a pretty nice deer, you know. He's got a kicker off of his G4 and big fronts and real bladed backs, you know, like a 187-inch deer. He was a nice deer. Yeah. So, I make a stalk on this deer. It takes me two hours to get over to where he is. And the wind was just, the wind was blowing so hard, there were pine cones just shooting across the canyon. So, this deer, he beds, and I head over, and you know how it is when you're going on a stalk.

You think, you know, what's going to happen? So, I get over there, and there were two little dead pine trees was where I wanted to get, and Dusty's filming this thing. But I get over there, and I don't see anything, and I'm looking, but I'm looking down below me further than I should've. And I finally was patient for one time in my life. I knelt down, I knelt down, I knelt down, and I kind of got myself just, if I had to shoot, I could shoot, you know. And I thought, you know, I'm just gonna sit here. And about 40 minutes into it, I actually see the tine of the deer by this rock to my left. I saw his tine sticking out. He was right below me. He was probably 10 yards from me. And so, I sat there for like two more hours, and this deer finally stands up, and he started to walk away from me.

And for some reason, you know, it worked out in my favor. He stopped, and he walked back the other way. I shot him at seven yards. Jeez. Shot him at seven yards. He went down just like you shot him with a rifle. He just went on, just dropped. Done. Done. Yeah. Just kicked around, and that was that. So, that was my most memorable hunt.

Wow. I mean, I've had some good ones, but that just don't happen very often. No, no, it sure doesn't. Well, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, so, how can somebody get a hold of you guys? How do they order a rifle? What's your lead time? Our lead time right now, we're about six, seven months, but if a guy has a hunt that he's, you know, we got, a guy's got, you know, stone sheep hunts, we try to get those rifles to them, but we're going along at a pretty good clip right now. Good, good. And so, and then how can they get a hold of you? They can just, redrockprecision.com, we got a gun builder on it. We're on there. Okay. And actually, you guys are redoing that gun builder for us right now, but, or they just call us, you know. Yeah, just visit with you. Just visit with us. And you're happy to visit with guys, you know,

even if they don't, you know, buy a rifle. Just visit about. Yeah, I visit with guys all the time. Awesome. Yeah. Well, can't tell you how much we appreciate you spending some time with us today. I know you guys are leaders in the industry. I can't wait to get my new rifle. Yeah, we're excited to. I'm gonna crush some stuff this year with it, I promise. So, we're looking forward to that. Anyway, really want another shout out to Under Armour for sponsoring these podcasts. What an awesome company they are as well. Very innovative, build awesome gear for hunters. And anyway, just appreciate them. Appreciate you, Todd. Thanks for spending some time with us. Thank you. Looking forward to continuing our partnership with Epic Outdoors. So are we. All right, buddy. Thank you. Thanks a lot.