EP 50: Effective Hunting with Matt of ONX Hunt

Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Adam Bronson here with the Epic Outdoors podcast. We've got a special guest on with us. We've got Matt with Onyx Hunt Maps. Of course, many of you know a bit about the Onyx Hunt Maps. It feels like they've taken over the industry, at least the map industry, huh Adam? Yeah, absolutely. So before we get started on this podcast, we do want to let everybody know that we're working with Onyx Maps. You can go on to onyxmaps.com, O-N-X, maps, M-A-P-S, dot com. And you can join up for their Elite Membership or Premium Membership. The Premium Membership is $29.99. It includes one state of your choice. The Elite Membership is access to full 50 states for $99.99. And if you enter promo code EPIC, EPIC, on their website, you'll be eligible for 20% off. So once you do that and you have an account, you can update the current chips that you have for your GPSs.

So not only do you get the app for your phone, and basically it's a GPS unit with your phone, you can go update the chips you've got and it'll update all the changes that happen in the mapping industry. So anyway, just keep that in mind as we're going throughout this podcast. Onyx Maps is an incredible company that's basically a leader in the industry of mapping. And we as hunters use it all the time. All the guys here in the office, we've got Onyx Maps on our phones as well as the chips in our GPSs. So it's a must use for hunters out there, and you're going to find out why. But anyway, remember, onyxmaps, O-N-X, M-A-P-S, dot com. Enter EPIC in the code and you'll get 20% off. I want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring these podcasts and YouTubes and all kinds of different things that we've got going on here at EPIC Outdoors. And so we appreciate them and their support.

And so anyway, with that, Matt, you on with us? I am, yeah. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Adam, for having us. You bet. We're happy to have you. And we appreciate you spending some time with us. Of course, it's Monday morning. It's kind of busy. I'm sure you guys have probably sold a few maps today. Yep, already, I'm sure. They've been trickling it through. It's really picking up in the east. The whitetail hunters, you know, back east are really taking off the last couple weeks with their rifle seasons and late seasons. Yeah, we think our hunting's over, and it pretty much is out west to a large extent. Well, and back east, you've got all kinds of private and just crazy. Like, those guys live on, you know, on hunting private or trespassing on private. Yeah, you know, 40 acres here, 20 acres here. Yeah. And just trying to get permission. A lot of them are when they find a new spot.

Yeah, it probably changed everything. Some people probably lost some leases by using Onyx Hunt Maps, you know. Everybody's finding out who owns what, and then they're getting hit up for real money instead of just, you know, bottles of wine. Yep, yep. A little more competition now, I think, all across the hunting industry from those properties. Yeah, you guys have changed. You guys have changed that landscape for sure. And so, well, give us, maybe just as we start, maybe give us a little bit of background of yourself and how you become affiliated with the Onyx Hunt Maps. Of course, you know, as I understand it, you started quite a while ago. Maybe you've even had a company name change since you've been there. I don't know. Yeah. I've been involved in a couple of those back when it was hunting GPS maps.

Yeah, we were talking, Adam mentioned that this morning, and I'm like, it was, it was like hunting GPS or hunting something. Yep, hunting GPS maps. And it was great back then, you know, 10 years ago for, you know, SEO value and all that stuff with Google search and everything. You know, picking that name and URL really helped us get a lot of traffic and a lot of people were searching those keywords, trying to find a solution like this. You know, as our founder, Eric, was for his own hunting. He grew up in, you know, eastern Montana and loved taking people out hunting and guiding and doing all that stuff. And when he moved to Missoula with his wife, he was looking at elk on properties and deer, and he was wondering, who owns that? I think as we all tried to figure out, you know, 10, 15 years ago, who owns that? Is this fence in the right spot?

I wish I just could know and not have to worry about it when I'm in the field. You know, we all have a few days in precious time. We don't want to be dealing with landowners and trespassing and wardens, all of that stuff. You know, you know, we're trying to do this to enjoy the outdoors. So he created, you know, that first, gathered all the data from Montana and created that first GPS chip in 2009 for his personal use and just found so much value out of it. He thought, I think I might be able to help other people out with this product. And so that's really what spurred it is just helping other people, you know, enjoy their time outdoors and know where they stand. And it just kind of took off from there. Well, we remember the days Eric showed up here at the office when we were at a different company and he shows up.

And, in fact, Adam, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't my dad try to buy or try to buy in or figure out how to get Eric on board? It was pretty – he was kind of in his infancy, yeah, just starting to gain some traction. And so, you know, Eric, you know, we came down, looked at some partnership ideas and things like that. But, yeah, I mean, that's – we've got chips from those days that predate any landowner names or anything like that. Just yellow and green and blue and white squares on your GPS. Well, we got chips with like five or six states on one chip. Of course, don't want to give the public any ideas, but just, you know, pretty awesome. Just an awesome – at the time, yeah, that's been 10 plus years. Well, I don't know, maybe not quite. So how did it change kind of your guys' accessing public land and kind of how you thought about it?

Or what tools were you using before that and how did it help the transition? Well, just paper maps. Paper maps, yeah, pretty much. And then, you know, yeah, you're hiking in the mountains and it is, you know, same questions you posed a minute ago. Is that fence right? Because, you know, whether you're interpreting the paper map wrong or the fence is really – you're like, is that really private? Can I go jump the fence right there and hunt or not? Yeah, and then we also have like, you know, different laws on corner jumping and can you corner jump or not? And we would – you know, I remember hunting 44 in Colorado with a friend of mine, Clint Lindstrom, and we would have the paper map out. And, of course, the paper map has GPS basically lines, you know, ticks and stuff. And then we would have our GPS set to the same datum that the paper map's in.

And then we're sitting here, you know, we are sitting right here. And this says it's public. And, you know, it may be marked private because somebody wanted to mark it private. And so we're like, yeah, go ahead, Clint. Why don't you be the gimme pig? Jump out. All glass for you. Okay, if he gets away with it and there's 14 cars that drive by, then I'm jumping the fence after Clint. Yeah. Well, and the other thing was, yeah, you get states in Colorado. It's a good example of that. They're posting laws. They don't have to post anything. You know, other states, you know, if it's not cultivated property, cultivated laws are pretty standard for, like, Idaho, Utah. If it's cultivated agriculture, it doesn't have to be posted. But other states, the burden's all on the hunter or sportsman. You've got to know where you're standing or where you're hunting.

It doesn't need red paint or sign or anything. And so, yeah, what it did is gave you more confidence, exactly what it did. And it allowed you to, you know, walk with that clip to your chest on your pack strap and look down and glance at it all the time. Because, you know, there's not always a fence. A lot of these you're dealing with a private forest service boundary on a side hill up a mountain. And, you know, there's no fence. And so it was very good. And obviously, you know, part of what I'm sure we'll talk about today is where it's come from that period of time. And, you know, 2009 or 10 or 11 when that was really, you know, taken off. Well, this has even empowered game and fish agencies. I know in particular I was visiting with a game warden, and he uses it. He uses the chip to, you know, to enforce. Enforce or write a ticket or not. Yes, literally.

And, you know, of course you get some of these, generally the landowners we've come in contact are very good guys. But there are some landowners that would love to not see hunters, you know, even near their property. And so they might claim they own the whole mountain and they don't. But, you know, and now it's just kind of empowered everybody. I mean, obviously that's the feedback you get. Yeah, yeah, just people, just all the stories we get and testimonials every week coming in to our team here. It's just great. And people, you know, people have, you know, the general public, you know, has limited days and vacation. This is, they take their vacation time to go hunting. And, you know, like I said, they don't want to be dealing with trespassing and not knowing where to hunt.

They just, they really do want to just go have a good time, you know, spend time with friends and family, hopefully harvest an animal and just take advantage of our public lands here. Yeah. Well, let's get, maybe we'll get started. Talk about your company, the history. Of course, we've started on the history and then kind of how it's evolved and what, let's just like talk about the product. Like give me the sales pitch, you know. Mobile, GPS, computers, all of them. Yeah. So some of the listeners that don't, maybe haven't used it or haven't had a need or whatever, like maybe they can learn about it. And then Adam and I can kind of grill you with a few questions. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. So we're, we're a Montana, Montana made company. You know, we've grown everything here in Montana locally. We're in Missoula and we started, Eric started the company in 2009, like you mentioned.

And he was talking to, talking to you way back in those days. I remember, I remember when I came on in 2011, we did, we did some, some partnerships and some sales as well on that chip product. But yeah, it was hunting GPS maps and you know, we really did good with the GPS market. We got, you know, into retail sports bins, you know, Cabela's, all the major retailers. And they really, really love the product and, and it kind of flies off the shelves during hunting season, that GPS chip. And so as we were growing, growing the team, so our GIS team, we grew that team that all the data is collected internally by our, by our GIS team. And so we've grown that team to about 17 people now and, and all of our sales team and all of our customer service is all in-house marketing and, and for the app product, which I'll, which I'll get to in a minute.

But we have, you know, about 20 engineers that, that code the app, the web map, all that stuff that, that goes out the door to make sure it's working on your phone as well. So, but you know, the first three or four years was great for the chip and everybody kept saying, I want to do this on my iPad. Or now as the iPhone started to come out and smartphones started to take over, you know, beginning of 2010, 11, 12, people were like, Hey, I want to, I don't have a GPS, but I'd love to see this data on our, on my phone. So we started developing an app for iOS and Android and, and launched those in 2013 to kind of add another complimentary product. So people could use their dedicated Garmin GPS, which was super popular in the West.

You know, everybody's using those Garmin GPS is to hike the mountains and stuff, but in the East in order for us to kind of grow that way, the Garmin GPS market just wasn't really there. You know, hunting those smaller parcels, like we mentioned, and, and having cell service all the time, there wasn't the need for the dedicated GPS. So, so we launched the app and that's really helped us get this data and, and this kind of knowledge out to the Eastern hunter as well. And so that, that product has grown, you know, over the last four years, getting ready to wrap up another strong year here in 2017 and have some exciting stuff for 2018 as well. Wow. That's crazy. Well, I know the, the app has gone crazy. Of course, I'm using the app a lot. And at first I was, you know, it was just, uh, you know, it's, I don't know if that, that sucked my battery, if my phone sucked, you know what I mean?

But it does, it is an app. Yeah. It's a little bit of a drain. I think. Yeah. With everything that's going on on your phone. And so, but I, you know, um, and we can talk about that a little bit, but you know, your GPS has, uh, you know, obviously has GPS built in it. And when it's on, um, even if you don't have service, as long as you downloaded those maps, you got the site, you know, you've got good, good enough memory to be able to, you know, hold your maps. Um, and download those, you know, I would always, always turn it on airplane mode because once in a while, if you get one bar of service, it's, it's fighting, you know, it does try to find service and drain your battery. Yeah. Well, it tries to find service and then you kind of got half a map coming up and it's, it's turning through it for a minute.

So if I just turn it on airplane mode, it'll just automatically use the map that I downloaded and it's awesome. Just crank. Yep. And so is there any other tricks to the trade on that on, on, uh, you know, mobile app, the mobile app? Yeah, definitely. That's what I do on my hunts and recommend is, you know, downloading those maps beforehand. Uh, and that stores it, you know, right on your phone. And then when I'm out there, I definitely turn my phone into airplane mode as well. Because when you're even when you're in service or intermediate service, it's, it'll still try to load those layers, you know, from, from the cell service. And so, like you said, you just kind of get half a map loading here or there and, and it can be in the way and then battery life too.

So, um, the app running, pinging the servers all the time can drain the battery, but then also your, your cell service, just trying to locate satellite and connect with, you know, internet and all that stuff. Uh, your regular phone functions. So it's great to turn it into airplane mode. And then, you know, I was in Nevada and my phone lasted, you know, I took a little charger too, but, you know, two or three days pretty easy, um, with some use in the back country, um, before you really had to charge.

Well, so maybe, yeah, talk us through since we're kind of on that, that subject of mobile device, you know, phone, you know, versus some of the GPS, um, each platform, what the benefits of each are, you know, can you use a chip across multiple ones or how they can get, you know. And obviously then you got the desktop computer either before you leave home or I guess in some cases, if you're, yeah, you're on a hunt and you got that in camp or something, you know, each night and, and, uh, want to go, you know, look at it there and things like that. How does, how does that, what is the pluses minuses of some of them applications of them all? Yeah. So, you know, with the dedicated GPS that comes as a, as a micro micro SD chip. And so the state's preloaded on that chip and it's locked on there. And, uh, so any GPS you plug that into, it'll load up the information.

So you can plug it into, uh, your new V maybe if you're driving around, I have one in my truck or garden in new V. If you're driving around looking at the map that way. And then when you're getting ready to go hike, you know, you can put your chip in your, in your Rhino or Oregon or Montana GPS, whatever you're using. And are they, uh, are they, uh, for the listeners there, are you one, one state per chip or, I mean, obviously various, um, combinations. Just one per chip. Yeah. Yeah. One state per chip. Cause it seemed like an, well, I was in Idaho and maybe you've done away with that product, but I could get a multi-state chip, but like a Idaho, this, this. Like a three state. Yeah. Like a three state. Yep. Yeah. We used to have the regional chip and that did not have a landowner names on it. Okay. You could get more states, but it wasn't, we didn't. Wasn't popular. It wasn't popular.

Yeah. It just added, you know, added some complexity for us. And so we just wanted to. Now you get to the one state and it's got everything on it. Yeah. You know, land ownership, landowner names, everything. Full, the full. All the running units. So the product to buy, there's one chip to buy. You want Arizona, you got Arizona. Yep. Okay. Yep. Yep. And all of our packaging now count with that purchase, you get a free complimentary year. There's a code inside it. So you get a free complimentary year for your app and a web map membership. So, so it kind of gives you the complete package there. So a chip and an app for a year. This is what you're saying. Yep. Yeah. Yep. And then you'll hide your chip forever. Right. And if you want to keep continuing the app. And so how does that work? Because the app is good for, you can have five states clicked at once.

And so the app you can, you can choose, you give them access to, if I buy an Arizona chip, I only get the app usage of Arizona, or can I use the app for any and all states for a year? Or if I buy Arizona. Yep. You can select one state. So I would, I would guess most people might choose Arizona, but maybe if they're comfortable with their chip in Arizona, they might want to, you know, be looking around if they have a hunt in Colorado. Okay. So you'll give a complimentary state kind of thing. Like you buy a chip, you can have a, well, and I, and I, and I joined full price service, you know, on the app and, and, you know, continue to use it. And then I didn't even know you gave a free state. I just buy a chip if I'm in New Mexico, which I, and I like it because the phone again, sometimes, you know, if you're doing email, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, I mean, pretty

soon you're down to 20%, 10%, whatever. And you got to jump out of the truck. I just, I like to have a chip and I like the app, you know? Yep. Yeah. I think the thing I use the app the most for is kind of that overlaying the property lines and public with the aerial imagery. So I just find that really useful in looking at the terrain, that satellite image. Putting the land ownership, yeah. The layering over the, yeah, satellite image. That, that is the biggest benefit I see too. That way, it's not just, yeah, it's not just a topo map and you actually get to see what's clear, what's thick trees, what's, you know, a glassing knob or something like that. You get to kind of see what it actually looks like on the ground. You get our maps app that comes with your phone, you can see, you can switch it to satellite and see some of that. But of course, it doesn't have all the fun stuff.

Land ownership. You got, you got guzzler layers in Nevada. You've got all kinds of layers, you know, that you can add, of course, of course, the land ownership in the public and private and whatnot. But, you know, then there's some, you know, you've even got possible entry and exit or access points and cool layers, you know. Lots of really fun layers, that nationwide trails data set. And I use that. And then this year in my hunt in Nevada, since I was back country, I turned on the trail slope layer, which is kind of like a green, yellow, orange, red. But for every 10th of a mile, it shades the trail, whether it's kind of relatively flat, steeper or steepest. And so using that map was really nice, like knowing what trails I wanted, you know, to go into to set up camp and et cetera. And then it also next to that layer is the trail mileage layer.

So if you turn that on, it'll, it'll tell you like 1.2 miles between, you know, this junction and this junction, 0.5 to the next, you know, whatever the kind of junctions are. And so you can quickly add up. Cause I think we probably all know, like when you're looking at a trail and you're trying to draw a straight line and you're like, oh yeah, it's only two miles in. And then you start hiking it and it ends up being four miles. You're like, oh yeah. Should be about the switchbacks and stuff. It calculates it all on the, you know, squiggly line, switchbacks, all that, and tells you what it is. Yep. Yep. Exactly. So how do they, you know, talk a little bit about, you know, the different, you know, then we haven't really talked about the desktop stuff or laptop stuff, the computer, how the applicability between your phone, GPS and that, and what syncs and how to get data and

waypoints and all that. Yep. Yep. So the, so we have our web map at onxmaps.com and the web map is kind of like the desktop internet version of the app. So on your phone, you would want to run, you know, the hunt app from your app store. And then on your computer, you can log into the web map. And those are both a part of your membership to hunt. So you get access on your phone and your computer. And it's basically the same account you log in and wherever you log in, you're going to have all of your data you've stored. So all of your waypoints, tracks, lines, shapes, anything you've done, and then access to your account. And so now with cloud-based technology, any markups, tracks you make, anything you do in the web map will automatically sync right then over to your phone. And anything you do out in the field, you know, on your phone, when you come back to the office

and log in, all of that data will already be there in web map for you. So that's kind of all that cloud syncing. And that's really good for, like, scouting at home, you know, planning all your markups, where you want to put camp, your classing points, where you set your trail cameras, et cetera. And then when you're out in the field, all that data will be there waiting for you. So that's kind of how those two work. And then on the GPS side, if you are doing markups and stuff on your Garmin GPS, you can plug that into your computer, open up the Garmin Basecamp program, that's Garmin software. And then you can just export your data to your computer. And then inside our web map, we have our import-export tool. So you just hit import if you want to put data from, like, a Garmin or Google Earth or some other system into our mapping system. And that'll just be kind of like a plug-and-play.

You just hit import, find that file on your desktop or downloads or wherever you have it, and just hit import. And then if you want to get data out of our system, you can hit export. And so I use export to send some data to my friends and stuff as well. So you can hit export. And you can export it as a GPX file, which goes to your Garmin, or you can export it as KML, KMZ, which you can import into Google Earth. So you don't lock your data down. You can do kind of whatever you want. That's something I'm super passionate about is letting you own your data. Because as a hunter myself, I want to have kind of control of that. Maybe I want to back it up or send it to a friend or whatever your need is, you have access to your data. So I've got like 1,000 waypoints from year 2000 until now. I can pull those into my current, you know, whatever, desktop application, web-based application.

Pull them in. I've got them forever. And then I can download them back to my phone or GPS or at least access them through my account. Maybe it's on there. Cloud-based technology. It's on there all the time. Yep. It's always there. Yep. Yep. Wow. And something we're excited about getting in here in the near future is some folder systems for your data into the app and web map so you can organize by folders and do a little more customization there. So I think it'll be a useful tool to help, you know, people organize all those years and years and years of accumulated knowledge. It's all secured down like you're dealing with somebody's social security number, I imagine. Yep. These are hunting spots. These are hunting spots we're talking about. You can have my social security number, but I don't want anybody looking at my GPS. Yep. Yep.

We don't have a God view, so we don't look at anybody's data or have a tool that allows us to do that. Wow. That's awesome. Holy cow. That's great. Well... Yeah. You've got a lot of valuable information, so... Absolutely. So what a... I guess, yeah, talk with us, you know, or maybe some of the people that haven't used it, like I said, just tell us the basics of how your technology, whether it be, I guess we'll go back to the field, so to speak, in terms of the mobile and the GPS app. You know, how it works. What happens if you're, you know, offline or don't have service, you know, if you get a download step prior to, all those types of things, you know, just the basics of that before we get into, then, the types of, you know, really applications that you guys are going to use. Well, and I think, too, yeah, as you're talking about it, it, you know, for us, and we're

dealing with videos, you know, of course, throw a phone scope in here, you're taking videos of a game, and it's taking up data, it's taking up space, and the same thing with, like, these maps, you're downloading maps and all this. At some point, it's worth, when you upgrade your iPhone or whatever phone you have, and you upgrade it, it's worth, like, I got a 256 gig phone, you know what I mean, and, and, and, or, and my last one was a 128, and Adam and I have talked a lot about storage and managing storage and whatnot, but more is better, especially the, as time goes on, technology increases, and, and all of this, these things, so kind of, maybe for our listeners, keep that in mind when you're updating your phone, so. Yeah, yeah, phones are not, not just used for, you know, text and phone calls anymore,

they're a tool, right, I mean, I have all of my email, my work, you know, my Google Drive, you know, then you have all of your images and phone scope and maps, and they're really, and whatever else you have specialized for your job or, or your needs, they're really becoming a tool. Yeah, yeah, that's right, and so, and so let's, like Adam was talking about, maybe just kind of go through and, and just give us a quick sales pitch, of course, we've talked about a lot of your products, but from a new, a newbie's perspective, he gets on, he goes to onyxmaps.com. Bars the app, and how it works from then forward, or whether it be a GPS chip or the Apple. And you can update your chip, and just a few things like that. Used to be download, you just plug, you know, download it right to your GPS, but of course, I like the chips, but. Yep.

Yeah, so with the chip, you know, like I said, you can, you know, purchase that at a retailer, you know, our website, and that's just a plug and play system, really simple. If you're going on a Western hunt, or anywhere, and you need to know property ownership, public land, if you're hunting state, BLM, forest service, and you just want to be confident where you're at, and you have a Garmin GPS, that's just a super simple system. It's going to plug into your GPS, that's all you have to do, just turn on your GPS, then the maps will be loaded for you. It's basically a 24k topo map, so it's going to have your topo lines, all of your trails, your roads, everything you need, you know, for getting around. It'll have your hunting units there for elk, deer, antelope, for most of the states, whatever species you want to look for, and then just that public and private ownership. Yeah.

So, you can change batteries pretty easily, you know, you don't have to worry about chargers. You know, if you have some of the Rhino walkie-talkie Garmins, you can talk and see your partner's location, so that's a really, really good GPS unit if you're hunting with a party.

And you could also use the Garmin Basecamp software, like I mentioned, for planning at home as well. They have a software system that lets you view the chip and do markups and stuff like that. Yeah. So, you know, I've got a couple of stories at some point to interject, but just wondering, like, data changes, you know, people buy properties, buy state land or whatnot, and I've found sometimes, like this year, a couple of times my phone showed different than my chip, and I just was wondering which is accurate. Maybe there's a glitch. How often do you update it? Yeah, or maybe there's a glitch, or maybe not. Like, just tell us about the reliability, the accuracy, and then, of course, you've got, what, 17 people in the GIS and 20 engineers. I mean, this is beginning to be big business. Yeah. Yeah. So, on that land ownership, that's a really good point.

You know, we have the chip and the app, and, you know, you would think they would have the same land ownership, right, or the same names, and they do at some points, but, you know, on the app, we are able to update changes on the fly, right? So, everything's coming from our server. So, if we update Wyoming this week, bam, all that land ownership for Wyoming gets updated right into your app. You don't have to do anything. Now, if you have a chip, you know, you might have bought it one, two, three, four years ago. How about 2010? How about? Yeah. How about if you are with the land ownership, right? Adam's still using the original chips, just praying that white means white, which is private. And there's been no state sections get sold. Yeah. So, on that chip, it's up to you, you know, to come back to our website and do an update if you want.

So, we have an updater, and then you just plug your chip into your computer, and it'll swap out the file for you. Updates, you know, are available every year for those chip products. And the way to get your update is you have to have a membership to hunt. So, you have to have an app or a web app membership, and then you get free updates for any of your chips. All of your chips are just free updates as long as you have that. And so, to get a membership, is that just like, say I bought the hunt app for $100? Yep. Is that my membership? Is that what you're talking about? That's your membership. Yep. Okay. And I can update my cards. Adam could have his cards updated from eight years ago, and they're updated right now for free. As long as he's paid the $100 or whatever it is for the hunt app. Yeah. Yeah.

In the past, we used to have the app membership was kind of separate, and then you could buy chip updates, you know, for $30. $30 a year, and the app membership was $30 a year for the one state, $100 for all 50. With an app suggested there. Yeah. Yeah. We just rolled it all into kind of one product to make it easy. Okay. Easy for everybody to understand. So, you buy a chip, you know, you buy a chip if you need that new chip, and then everything else is kind of involved with the app. Well, it's smart business, too, because if a guy wants to update his chip, you're kind of not forcing him to buy the app for your phone, but it's a natural. You buy the app for the phone, you get all your chips will be updated for free. You know what I mean? And it's added value. So, you know, we were charging that $30 a year for the update anyway, and now you can kind of think of it the same way.

You're still paying that $30 a year for your chip update, but now you get access to the app and the web map kind of for free. So, it kind of rolls it all into one. Okay. Cool. Well, on the phone, for like, just to wrap up with the use in the field, or, you know, getting the phone app, you know, you just go to your app store, iTunes, or Android, you know, download the app, search on X Hunt, it'll pull that up for you. And then, you know, if you already have an account, whatever, you just log in and start using it. If you don't have an account or a membership, you know, you can have a seven-day free trial. There's no charge after that. So, you get seven days free. We don't take your credit card or anything. After seven days, you can decide to buy or not. We'll hit you up with some marketing, probably. But, yeah. Oh, yeah. You're going to want it. You can test it out.

Oh, well, you're going to want it. I did that seven-day free trial when I was in Idaho on a deer hunt, and then pretty soon I was stressed that I was going to hit day eight. You're like, this can't go away. This cannot go away. It has to show up every time. So, how do you do that for listeners on a per-state basis on the mobile part of it? Or is it not as much like the GPS chip where it's by state, by state, basically? Yep. Yep. So, it is by state. So, we have a one-state membership or a 50-state membership. And that's just kind of how the App Store, which we're kind of controlled by because we do a lot of business through the App Stores. But with their subscription models, we kind of had to do a one- or all-membership model. So, you can do one state. You can pick Montana, Colorado, map away. You'll have your layers for your state.

So, you'd have like public land for that state, private land for that state, all the access areas, all of the private walk-in areas. Montana, they're called Block Management, Utah, CWM News, Idaho, Access Yes, or whatever that state program is for that state. You'll have section lines. And then on the nationwide trails, you know, nationwide layers, you'll have all of your trails, all of your hunting units, you know, force fires, timber cuts, wilderness areas, lots of really cool layers. Well, it's kind of cool. Like some of the access programs, you know, for Kansas, for example, there's some walk-in areas. And I can't imagine, I mean, you've got to be doing that probably as well, you know? Yep. Yep. We have all of those for every state that has that program. And we update those every year before the hunting season.

You mentioned wilderness areas, which are public lands, but I hunted Wyoming this year. And that's important to know if you're a non-resident up there without an outfitter. You need to know where regular national forest changes to wilderness because you're breaking the law when you cross that without a guide. You're driving along and the wilderness butted up against the road. Oh, right next to the road. So literally out one side of the road, I couldn't shoot something, even though it was off the road. It was just cherry stem section, very small section. Most wilderness doesn't go right to the road. You had to be tempted. Yeah, I didn't see anything. I was not. Did you venture over there? Tell the truth. There was sheep there, so I didn't see a deer. Oh, you did venture over there. Well, yeah. One side was good. Oh, okay. Never left the track. All right. Don't incriminate me.

I don't want my old game fish showing up here tomorrow. Me neither. Go to Bronson's house. That's where he keeps his GPSs. But no, yeah. That's an example of, you know, it's not just about public land because not all, you know, in that state's instance, you want to know where a wilderness boundary, that could come into play in like a region H deer hunt where you've got, you know, national forest, but then wilderness in the high country. You need to know. And they're not on fences. There's no fences there. It's just an elevation contour line or something. The downside to all this is that you could tell the game warden, he could say, I didn't know. And he's like, no, no. I called the Onyx guys and you've got a subscription. Not only do you have a subscription, you own six state chips. You were using it. I subpoenaed your account at Onyx. You're giving them ideas. Yeah.

Well, it's not like it hasn't happened before. I guess I brought it up. There's people on revocation right now because of things like that. You know, that's what's crazy about, well, anyway, about these phones and the location services. Like we've had big, and I guess we're varying from the subject, but the phone GPS system is amazing. Let's just say that. There's pretty much nothing you're doing that somebody doesn't know about. If you're not careful. Yeah, I would agree. If you're not careful. That's right. Yeah. So another thing that I found was interesting is the overlays of the game activity. I don't know what you call it. Game activity. You know, winter range, summer range. You had that overlay on the phone, at least the phone app, when I was in Colorado. Yeah. And I was like, holy crap, this is cool. Cool.

That probably leads us into, yeah, the question of, like, where this data and maps come from. I mean, not all states have what Colorado does. Yeah, you're limited to what the state can give you. Yeah, tell us, or the listeners, like, you know, you're not drawing these all on yourself. These are, I guess, and you're not giving away propriety secrets here, but just from a confidence standpoint, where do you get your layers, your data, your maps, your land ownership, all that, just so everybody kind of has the confidence, okay, yeah, that's where I would have to go get it myself. Yeah, so we aren't creating any data ourselves, like going out and measuring or surveying or doing stuff like that. So we're getting data sets, you know, on land ownership, you know, that's from the county. You know, we get that tax records for that.

But as far as, like, hunting units, you know, that has to really come from each game agency and game ranges or et cetera. And so we might take it and do some fine tuning, you know, with colors and shades. Yeah, make sure it visually looks good. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, we're really relying on those resources. And we have some great, great partnerships with a lot of the states, Colorado and Wyoming, are two of our big partners. And like you mentioned earlier, all of their game wardens are using our products, I think, in almost every state I can think of. I hope you're making them pay full price. A little bit. A little package deal for the whole game agency or something. Yeah. Good. Good. Well, that's a testament, too. If you've got people like that relying on using it, I mean, it's not a hobby shop, garage, and turned out thing. Government sanction.

I mean, this is, you're using, yeah, you're using government entities, whether it be federal and state for your base land ownership or base maps and one to 24 and all that. You're not. Yep. And, you know, building it from there, layer, layer, upon layer of state, federal county, landowner name, all that. I keep looking for that 200-inch overlay. Like, here's where 200-inch deer live. You know what? You could do a Boone and Crockett overlay of counties and numbers of Boone and Crockett bucks or bulls or rams or whatever taking in specific counties and have that overlay for that. You could, you know. We do have that in there. What? We have a partnership with Boone and Crockett now that we launched, well, maybe about two months ago. I haven't seen that layer yet. No, is it? Is it? Great. Is it? Hey. Now I'm going to be hunting with Jason.

All he's going to be doing is sitting on that, wondering, I wonder what's died in this county. Well, and then if you touch that, maybe it'll kick you over to Boone and Crockett's website and you get to look at all of them. Do you guys have an interactive like that? It's not set up like that yet. We've been talking with them about stuff. Just total entries. Yep. Right now it shows total entries. I'd love to, you know, we would love him to look at it here in the next year and make it kind of filterable. So if you take a buddy hunting out of state and you're sitting somewhere and he says, why did you bring me here? There's nothing big. You just say. Because of this layer. Look at this. Look at this layer. Yep. This is what's died in this county in the last 10 years that made Boone and Crockett. Dude. Yeah. Which comes back in.

If I'm at home on my computer, that would be a great overlay to look some. It's a great tool for clients. Yeah. Especially if you're, if you're talking general season deer and elk options, because, you know, some states you've got 50 or 75% of the state that you could go hunt on the general season tag. And so how do you narrow that down? You know, that's just. I thought I had a $500 idea, you know, for something going to make you guys a hundred grand. Maybe you'd kick me 500 for that. And that's a good idea. Jeez. I already thought about it. Yeah. Well, speaking of new stuff, I guess, like what other things are you guys thinking about up there?

So we, we launched the sharing waypoint. And so right now, if you make a waypoint, you can like tap it and hit share. And then that'll just send it like via text or email or basically whatever kind of your native sharing functions are. I know you can send it through Facebook, whatever, but we've been using that a lot to just share that waypoint like, Hey, this is the camp we're meeting at, or Hey, I got a bull down. This is where I'm at. Can you send reinforcements? And so when, when somebody else clicks that waypoint link and their text message or email, it'll open up the app and automatically save that waypoint right on the map for them. So, so if I send you a waypoint Jason and I say, here, here's where we're camping in Colorado, meet me here in four days. And you hit that link, it'll just save it right into your phone, to your database.

And you'll be able to know right where to drive to, to meet me at camp. So that's a really cool tool. Yeah. That's getting, it's getting a lot of use in our system. Is it? That's great. Well, and the more interaction you can have with your customer, you know, the more tied they become to you and they, they have to keep you, you know? Yeah. And we're really focused on building those tools that, you know, as, as hunters ourselves, those tools that really are going to help you in the field, you know, trying to stay away from, you know, some of the gimmicky stuff and stuff and really have tools that are going to really help you because that, you know, obviously that's what does drive value, but that's, that's what we want in the product for ourselves as well. Yeah. Can you print the maps? I mean, how have you, are we at that point? I haven't even looked. Yep. Yep.

So if you log into web map, you know, you can print all of the maps you want for free. You know, right now, the farthest I've gone is printing like eight, eight and a half by 11s, you know, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. People can figure out maybe how to print a bigger map or, or put them together. But yeah, all of that is printable. If you know how to print from your phone, I don't know how, but I'm sure people can print from the phone or do a screenshot as well on their phone to, to share. One thing I wanted to, one thing I wanted to talk about too, is like not all maps are created equal. We can buy, you know, in Colorado, for example, there's 14 different manufacturers and one shows a particular, for example, in New Mexico, I've got maps. Some show ponds, some don't. And they might even be the same, what do you call it, Adam? The same one to 100,000 or the seven and a half minute map.

Same scale, you know. Seven and a half minute map shows this, but this seven and a half minute doesn't like, what do you, I mean, of course you got 17 GIS guys, but. Yep. Have you found what you feel like is the best? Are you modifying that a little bit with your own GIS guys? Yeah. Yeah. We're still, we're still modifying and, and improving stuff. So on our, our topo base map that we have in our app, that's all a map that we make ourselves from data. And so we just got done with another round here of updating it. It's going to have some hill shade in, some more ponchers, a little bit of coloring and it'd be a little crisper. So we've been launching that probably in January. But, and the nice thing about our topo map or like everything we do is everything is updated every year. You know, and so, and everything can be updated on the fly, you know, and changed.

And so I think we get a lot of customer feedback. And so we can make changes whether instantly, like by that day or two, if it's like a parcel error that we think is wrong or has been updated and we can just verify and update that quickly in the record system all the way to like the topo and, and making layers and stuff. So I think that's one of the benefits of our system is just really engaging with our customer base. And I think that's one thing I was going to mention, like on the land ownership, the public lands is now we have, we have 10 years of kind of customer feedback on our data set. Here's like a spot that was wrong or here's, cause you know, you're talking to federal data set or a county records. I mean, we're talking 300 million different parcels throughout the U S and so of course there's

going to be some errors or something, something in wrong or, you know, the county hasn't updated it or federal government doesn't update that often because, you know, they're not too worried about tax revenue. So we've gotten thousands and thousands of, yeah, from, from the, from the county, from the county, you know, from land ownership. So we've got thousands and thousands of customer feedback, you know, game board and feedback, you know, stuff from the state agencies that, uh, that's really proprietary to our data set. Well, we just, we just want to throw our hat in the ring. Like if you got any new stuff that's coming out, that's all exciting, you need somebody to test it. Just hit, uh, Jason and up outdoors.com or Adam and that we got, we'd be happy to work with you. We'll get you guys to get you guys set up with some new stuff coming out.

So tell us like, uh, let's say I'm going to Canada. Do you do anything up there or where, where, what's your limit? Canada. Yeah. Not in Canada yet. Okay. I've been researching the data up there over the last month and looks like there might be some possibilities there. So, um, kind of something, probably make a decision here and might make a push for next fall. So we're talking 50 U S States. Is that where you're correct? Okay. Okay. And it's great. We have, it's amazing, uh, amazing how many customers, you know, there are in states you want to think of or that I didn't think of, you know, a couple of years ago, but you know, Hawaii and Rhode Island and Maine and everything is just, I guess there's the same problem and the same issues kind of inherent to the hunting, right? I mean, it's up to the hunter's responsibility to really know what property and you can't go hunting

really unless you have a property or public land and know where you're at. Where you can step on ground that you know you're speaking of the green light. Speaking of that. So I was in New Mexico hunting elk and, um, it was kind of crazy. We just, it was the last day, been a tough, tough hunt. Chris was in the truck with me, which he's here recording the podcast. But anyway, he's in the truck and my GPS was dead. My phone, it was about dead. I was, so I'd had it on, uh, I had the locations turned off and the app closed and everything. We're cranking down the road and I look up and there's this freaking giant bull and it was all kind of mixed in public and private, um, a little bit, but good, good size chunks of both, you know, it's, it's not like you're, you're really dicey. And so anyway, we come to a screeching halt and, uh, and I'm like, crap, I know we're close.

Like, are we on public or private? And, uh, so I reach over, I turn my locations on, I open up your app and, um, and when it comes up, it comes up, I can see we're on, we're on public of, I don't know, probably for a quarter of a mile or something, you know, I could tell, you know, and so I, you could tell kind of the way the fences jogged and stuff. And I was like, yeah, he's on public right now. Like he's on public. Anyway, long story short, um, killed the bull and did it, you know, conscience free. Anyway, it just made it, it made it awesome, made the decision easy. And it was a real live, I mean, situation where, you know, that had a huge part in the play, whether we hunted that bull or not. So, yeah, great story. Yeah. I mean, I don't care if you're using our product or you can find something else like

it, but you need to, if you're hunting, hunting, you need to be using something like this. Now it's just going to be, it's just going to give you peace of mind and give you that advantage of those split, those split moment decisions that you have to make. We've all been there and you're like, you passed up a buck because you didn't know when you come back next year with them, when you finally decide to buy the map, we've heard that they go back the next year and they're like, yep, it was public. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm sure you guys have heard a lot of that. And like, like Jason said, I mean, when I'm in a state, particularly it seems like a Wyoming, Colorado, places that we're not familiar with. Yeah. You don't live around and you're sometimes seen for the first time. You had just the, just the general drive and overlays, you drive and you cross cattle

guards and look and you're, you're mapping it out that day or two before you get a mental game plan. And then when you go out and sit on foot, there's lots of places that I've used my GPS just, just to navigate. So you have that peace of mind. Cause a lot of this stuff, there's not, there's not fences. There's, there's other places. It's very easy, you know, fence corners and where you got to go when there's not, you know, when a private landowner butts right up against national forest and they probably own the grazing rights up there on the forest. So they don't need to fence it and keep the cows off that and off their private because it's one and the same. You, you get off on your public land point. And yeah, sometimes it's a pain in the butt to have to walk vertical uphill for a quarter or a half a mile before you can make a hard left and go side healing.

But you have a hundred percent peace of mind to know that. And we've killed animals. Like I'm sure a lot of other people have doing it that way. And then you have, like you said, total peace of mind, the satisfaction, know that I did this public land and it would be, um, not impossible, but other places be very difficult to stay. You'd be guessing without, um, without something, you know, navigating on your chest as you're walking up, staying, you know, 50 yards, a hundred yards onto the green while you're, while you're going up a non-fenced hillside before you bank to the left. Well, and nowadays, like, um, if you, you, you do something and even if it's unintentional and you, you end up, you know, getting busted for doing, you know, taking an animal where you shouldn't have or something like that. And you take it across state lines, you're liable for a Lacey Act violation, which is

a felony, no hunting, no guns, you know, kind of thing. And so it's pretty serious in this hunting industry to know where you're at and to do it right. And, and that technology, I mean, you know, and I've always said, you know, develop products. It's like bread and water where people have to have it. This is becoming bread and water, the hunting industry. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's a, yeah, it's like rifle, gun, shells, and GPS with the land ownership. It's really that, that big a deal. And other places you don't need it. I mean, we all know, we go to our mountain that we always hunt and you don't need it. Nevada's got a load of public land. Like, so you're not as worried, but, but it does have the cool overlays of guzzlers and different things. And so anyway, and then, uh, you know, on my hunt in Nevada, I, you know, it was all

wilderness and forest service, but I did end up using our forest fire layer. So that shows the old forest fires that I found a bachelor group of bulls, like 10 bulls in the burn post rut. That's awesome. That was a loader. So that's an awesome layer. Yeah. It's all forest service, but, uh, you know, just finding that fire and that food source and water source too, with the guzzlers and springs. So, you know, that's crazy. Well, that's awesome. I know I was hunting with John Peterson, who's here, here in the Epic office. And we were over there in Colorado and, you know, he, he comes in and he had done, he works nonstop on the magazine and all the digital side of, of Epic. And so he didn't even have time to pre-scout. Well, he had come, he come in with this phone and opened up the Onyx app, which I didn't even know he had it.

Like we don't, we don't talk a lot, uh, about the hunting side of things. Cause we're just going a hundred different directions and, and, uh, the office work versus hunting and everything else. He opens up his map and I'm like, what are all those data points? And he's like, Oh, I was just chilling at the office. Of course he doesn't just chill at the office, but I was chilling and I opened up my app and just started marking access points. What I thought would be good where hard to access public land pieces, maybe in and around private and this and that. And he had like 15 or 20 little points on there. And I'm like, I mean, I, I'm not that good. Like, just like you telling me about the forest or the forest fire there, I didn't even know it was there and I could look and see it. You know what I mean? Um, but we're going so hard that I just know if I touch enough things on my phone, it'll

get me to where I need to go. You know, I don't, I haven't had time to get, you know, intimately familiar with all of these different aspects of, of your products. And so that's why I'm really, you know, appreciative of myself of being able to go over them with you. That's one of the, yeah. One of the nice things is it's like the default settings that we set up for you. Like when you first installed that, it provides like public land, private land, hunting units. It's like what you need to go hunting. Yeah. So, you know, a lot of people just stick with that and that's fine. Like it is exactly what they need to go hunting. Now, if you want to dive in more and do more research on boot and rocket or kind of make some assumptions on, you know, feeding and timber cuts and forest fires and all that other stuff, then there is more data for those that want to dig in and kind of customize.

But it's, you know, the nice thing is it's simple and easy when you install that app for the first time. It's just default settings so you can get what you need to get out in the field and get started. I did have a question. So when you open up this, the hunt app and you can touch satellite, hybrid, or topo. So I can get the topo satellite integrated or I can just get topo only or satellite only. When I do satellite only, it kind of has a yellow tint to it. Is that normal or do I need to adjust something in my settings? It shouldn't. Okay. It's got to, it does. So there might be something going on. Yeah. I need to look. It shouldn't be the same color as when you have the topo on top of it. Okay. Because topo's white. Topo's white and really clear and easy to look at. And I've got a little bit of yellow. I might need to throw my iPhone away. I don't know.

So I was just wondering about that. And anyway. We're working on some new aerial imagery too. So we're hoping to have some new aerial imagery for 2018 hunting season. Be able to look at 200 inches like not just trees, but like 200 inches. Yeah. Zoom in. Zoom in. Zoom in. Yeah. So maybe, yeah. Just, you know, talking about that in 2018, you know, you alluded to a little bit earlier in the updates and things like that. But, you know, as we've talked about since 2009 or 10, when Eric was kicking this off until now, less than 10 years, it's amazing the technology that just keeps rapidly changing. You know. Companies like PhoneScope, companies like Onyx. The more technology changes, the better off you guys are. I mean, it just keeps helping. Yeah. And especially with the phones and, you know, we, this last year we did about a one-year

rewrite of the entire app because with technology, you know, we launched in 2013. So 13, 14, 15, six, three and a half years or so. You know, technology just changes. I mean, that's, you can get stuff faster. Your phones have better memory, processors, everything, you know, servers, all that stuff we have to deal with. And so we spent the last year rebuilding the whole app with a focus on just stability. That was really it. Making sure your maps loaded, making sure we didn't have any downtime, which we did this hunting season. Making sure all the safe maps work, which were like 99%, you know, on there. So that was kind of our goal. And we launched that, I think, what, July 31st of this year. And it's been phenomenal. We haven't had really any problems, any customer problems, you know, this hunting season.

So now we're looking at, we have our, we have our kind of foundation built back up again. We have our engineers, you know, monitoring that, servers, all that stuff. Now we get to have a little bit of fun and play around with some more tools. We want to, you know, improve that sharing functionality, which I said, share waypoints. Share waypoints. I'd love to start sharing a track. I'd love to share a track that you did on a hike. And then maybe do some group sharing and being able to share with the group. Well, I could see in the future, like, Epic members, like, we have a membership experience database where if I went to, say, Unit 18 in Colorado, I could share, I could open up, I could have an 18 folder and share it with other Epic members. You know what I mean? I could see, like, who knows where this is headed. Yep. Yep.

So you can just make a custom folder and share that with, you know, three or four people. Maybe you, you know, are part of the Epic Outdoors and, you know, you drew a tag this year and another guy drew one next year. And you want to send him all the waypoints from your hunts, well, you could easily just share that folder of information and get on the phone and explain it to him. So I think that's been really useful tool. The other one is location. So being able to see your hunting partner's location on your map while you're in the field. Kind of like your GPS. So that has some safety in it as well. So, you know, for me to keep track of, you know, where my dad is at, if we're hiking, where my friends, be able to meet up and meet somebody if they have a bull out. So it's kind of that location tracking. It's going to be a fun thing to play with. Yeah.

In this day and age, there's just almost no excuse for getting lost and people not knowing where you're at, especially if you're at least on the hunt with one other person. Yep. Yep. So, you know, we've talked about primarily hunting. I know there's other applications, but since we're hunters and hunting business and you're a hunter and whatnot, that's kind of what we're talking about. But have you, and I know maybe no state is making a universal statement, but like just once again for the credibility and reliability of your data and whatnot, have you had any game of fish or has there been cases that you guys have been aware of where some says, I used my Onyx and I know I was standing on public. Is that, I mean, I know it's not universal. Upheld in court of law. But yeah, I mean, if they're using it and Game and Fish are using it and you're using,

I mean, I don't know how, unless you blatantly. But yours isn't updated. Maybe yours wasn't updated. Yeah. Maybe it's too old. I guess there's instances like that. Yeah. That was, that was, you know, a state section and that's sold in the last five years. So if you have an updated, updated chip or updated app. Yep. And have you had anybody, game wardens or that, I mean, said, hey, they're good as long as they're following this. You guys' data is awesome. I mean, I'm sure they're saying that. Maybe they're not on the record saying it, but maybe they are. Yeah. You know, I can't, I don't have any cases on the record that I can think of or remember about, you know, anybody getting a ticket or a situation happening. So. Well, and I think as long as a guy is doing everything he can do to do it right, it's obviously intention is, is part of that equation.

You know, I intentionally went on private or something, but you know, if you've got the chip and your chip says you're good. Standing on green, yellow, blue. I mean, you're trying. Yeah. I can't imagine. That's probably why you're not hearing of the case is because they're probably not getting a ticket and not having to go fight it because if you. Well, judge is going to look at you and say, you did everything you could do. That's right. You were trying. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think the only thing is like maybe in like states like Wyoming with all the, I know when I'm down there, all the new oil and gas roads and all the roads. Um, that can be confusing and it's really hard to figure out. Um, and so just to be clear, like our, the roads on our map are just like from the county, you know, state nationwide data set. We don't color code them or anything if they're public or private.

So that's one thing that does get tricky because a lot of those roads are so beautifully maintained and, uh, you think. You think they're a county road. Yeah. Yeah. Especially for those animal punters and deer hunters. Yeah, I've done it. We roll up to a gate and if there's a great big silver lock, it's usually not a public road. Even though you, it looks like it is. It's just going to protect their investment down the, yeah. On the road. They're all their equipment. They don't want people driving up to and shooting it up, analyzing it and whatever. But yeah. And the tricky thing is, is like the counties, like, like at one point, a lot of those, some of those roads, it's just work county roads, right? Uh, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. But for some reason they get abandoned or whatever. And then they're still called a county road in the county records, right? Yeah.

The county road 68 or whatever. But it got abandoned 20 years ago, but nobody changed the name of the road. Everybody still knows it's county road 68. So, yeah. So, yeah. So, it gets tricky. No, Wyoming's a tricky spot. But the game wardens do a really good job there of giving us feedback. And I hope, I know that they, it can't cause frustration from time to time with landowners and stuff, but they do love having this map to, to help them out. So, yeah. Tell us about the types of membership, elite versus premium. I don't know if there's a standard. What, what do you got? Yeah. So, I guess there is a basic, which is free. Um, and that allows you to view all the base maps. So, you can use your aerial, your topo map, uh, hunting units. Come with that. And then you can do all of your waypoints, tracking, markups, uh, and save one map for offline use.

So, if you just want a really cool GPS, uh, with some tools, uh, and you're hunting a lot of forest service and stuff where you don't care about property ownership, then by all means, go ahead. You can download the app and it's free? Free version. Yep. Okay. Yep. Yeah. Cool. So, if you're hunting forest service or you just want a free GPS, I mean, basically it's like a $300 Garmin GPS, you know, it has the base maps and the tools you need to use offline. Okay. Uh, but if you want to then have kind of those specialty layers, you know, uh, that we were talking about along with the public and private, uh, we kind of have the two options. Premium gives you one state. So, that's our one state membership premium. You just choose which state you want. Okay. Okay. And, uh, elite is, uh, is all 50 states. And, uh, five up at one point, you just click the five you want right now and you can adjust

that at all times. Yep. You can adjust at all times. So, in the layer settings, we, uh, you can like turn five states on at once because of course, if you turn all 50 states on and are trying to load the servers with all 50 states with the data, you are not going to have a good experience. Yeah. So, but we, we lock that down for the customer so they don't have to deal with that. So, yeah. That's awesome. All right. Well, cool. Is there anything else you want to talk about that maybe we didn't bring up that, I mean, obviously, you know, your products and your business a lot better than we do. I think, you know, you know, I think for those that haven't used their phone, you know, as a GPS, you know, um, two things is, you know, you can save maps for offline use. And so you're always going to have your maps, even if you don't have to prove this.

And then, you know, all, all the phones now have a GPS built in and they're pretty darn accurate, just almost as accurate as your garden GPS now. So if you do not have cell service or wifi or whatever, your phone still has a dedicated built in GPS. So you'll still have your location, uh, no matter where you're at emergency light, if you're out of service. So you have your phone, then your phone now has dedicated GPS and you can save maps. So basically, you know, it has that same functionality as a dedicated GPS now. Cool. Well, Matt, we sure appreciate visiting with you. It's been awesome. There's a lot of technology out there. You guys are obviously, uh, leaders in your industry. It's, it's impressive. Uh, we're using your products. And, uh, we're not paid to use them. In fact, we've paid full price for anything that we have. And so, you know, it's not something we're paid to say.

We use them. You just gotta have them. We love them. You gotta have them. And, uh, we just want to thank you for your time here on a Monday. Thank you so much, everybody. Yeah. Thank you, Jason, Adam. Appreciate it. Okay. Thanks, Matt. Thanks. All right. Take care. We want to let everybody know that, uh, the full curl society will be getting together. It'll be February 10th. Um, right during the Hunt Expo. And, uh, this will be kind of in a room off to the side. February 10th at the Hunt Expo. And it's, uh, it's a time where guys can apply and buy tickets where they're giving away 10 different sheep hunts. That's right. 10 different sheep hunts. Fully paid. So, the winner's not even needing to put up a small fee. There'll be three stone sheep hunts given away. Five doll sheep hunts given away. As well as a desert sheep hunt and a Rocky Mountain Bighorn.

And, and so, anyway, it's a great opportunity for guys to apply, basically, for, for hunts that otherwise cost lots of thousands of dollars. And, uh, you can sign up. You can get tickets at www.fullcurl.org. And, uh, great opportunity for guys to, to win some hunts. There'll be 10 hunt winners in the room February 10th during the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo. Here at Epic Outdoors, we produce a hunting magazine nine issues a year. The first six issues are state-by-state research-driven, uh, issues. Breaking down the states, the drawing odds, kill percentages, best places to go. Whatever your goals are for that state, whether you should even apply for that state or not. Coming from January through June, we break those down. The rest of the year, we go every other month. Very informative magazine.

$100 a year gets you that, uh, magazine as well as the budget con, consult with us consultants, develop a strategy, bounce ideas off us, things like that. Yeah, so, so with this magazine, you know, it just covers Western big game hunting. That's what we specialize in. That's what we stick to. So, the Western states, Canada, Alaska, Mexico, from a big game hunting perspective. So, $100 a year. And, uh, and it should be everything to do with Western big game hunting. We also offer a full service license application service. If you're too busy, you find yourself missing deadlines or you travel a lot with your work, missing deadlines in some cases will put you years behind, um, drawing a certain tag that you're after. We offer for a maximum of $500. We'll handle all of your Western state applications. We'll incorporate the information you give us.

You can be as interactive with us in picking your units as you want. Or you give us a criteria. We can pick your units, match the weapon type, species, states, all those types of things that you're looking for. We do that for a lot of guys. We help them draw a lot of tags. If you find yourself, like I said, too much, uh, going on in your life, whether it be business or travel or whatever, you miss deadlines, consider calling us for your license application service, uh, needs and be glad to help you out.