EP 75: Booking an Outfitter, Things to Remember

There's something to be said for an outfitter who's out there all the time and not only this year but they've probably been hunting that unit for the last five years. Take some of the things that people say with grain salt you've got to be able to read through it. Anything to do with western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody welcome to a new Epic Outdoors podcast today. Got myself and Jeff John and Chris Peterson here and appreciate you joining us. First off I want to thank Under Armour for being our title sponsor for this Epic Outdoors podcast. We appreciate that. Appreciate what they've done for us and stepping up to the plate and doing that. We also want to thank one of our newer sponsors and advertisers Outdoor Edge for their sponsorship. We've been using their knives. They're tough. Tougher, stiffer blades. Love their products. They've made a special Epic Outdoors series knife that you're going to be seeing us introduce you to here in the next coming months with a much stout replaceable knife blade than some of the others on the market. So you don't break as many of them and cut your finger off.

So anyway, but kind of an exciting time today. Well, I guess my phone blew up about four o'clock this morning and I knew either somebody had died or I guess draw results came out. And fortunately it was the latter. And from about then on, you know, in the wee hours of the morning, this new Nevada draw company decided to crush the emails, draw results for Nevada. And we're excited. I mean, we didn't know exactly how it was. They kind of had a new system this year. So being a new system, kind of fun. We've all been used to this 3 to 5 p.m. jump online, hit refresh, refresh, refresh, and see the whole list appear before your eyes. And knew that was going to be gone. But they started crushing some cards last night and through the night and then hit emails and loaded it. And it seemed very quick and seamless. And I think it's made a heck of a day for us here.

We've been busy talking to a lot of very fortunate members that have drawn every tag in Nevada, all species. We've talked to them today. A lot of happy people. I can't say that myself was one of those. I saw a lot of red on my email. A lot of red unsuccessful. Solid red. Yeah. Very much unsuccessful for me and my crew across the board. A lot. But congratulations to all the views that may have drawn a tag. And if you did and you need some help and input, you're a member of our service, you can call and we will send you a list of any other Epic Outdoors members that have had that same tag in the past. Or if you're hunting for an outfitter, which this podcast, we'll talk a little bit about that process. If you're hunting for an outfitter, give us a call. We've vetted a lot of the better outfitters in terms of the quality outfitters and the units that you may have drawn.

We can help you out with that. But before we get started into that, a couple other big announcements, a couple quick deadlines. The Wyoming deer and non-resident deer and antelope deadline is coming up on May 31st, as well as the resident deer, antelope, and elk deadline that same day. Keep in mind, if you're going to do points only, you have to wait until July 2nd through October 31st to do that. And just a night or two ago, I guess it's been, the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission unanimously approved their proposed grizzly bear hunting recommendations. Made a couple slight changes. The female sow subquotas lowered from 2 to 1. But stay tuned. We will make that widely known to all of our members. We'll talk about it here on a podcast.

We may get another Wyoming Game and Fish official on here with us to go over the ins and outs of that, specifically from what may be deviated from what was proposed. It was an early July deadline, so don't worry. We're not going to let you miss it. Not going to have to front the permit fees, so we're told. Cheap minimal application fees up front, they are not going to be good odds. And if you're drawn as a non-resident, you're going to pay $6,000 for the tag. They are going to have the core areas. I'm going to use that term. That's my term. That's probably not their term. But the core areas in and closer around to the park, they're going to have a 10 bear limit, I believe, and a one female subquota. I feel very... Please don't kill bear number 399. Do not kill... And do not kill a sow, and it shuts down the rest of the hunting for everybody. Please don't, somebody.

Let's have a good, successful year doing this. They are going to also have an outside, they're kind of called the outside the core area as well, where it's just going to be a quota. And these are the areas that are outside the main core recovery area. A lot lower incidence of bears, but Game and Fish has had some problem. Bears and different things like that outside in this area as well, that they're going to try to help direct hunters. To harvest and things like that. So it's at least exciting. I mean, Idaho, I guess we'll mention in a quick breath, they did approve theirs to kill one. Now, there are over 20 tags altogether in Wyoming, right? In Wyoming, yeah. Is what they're proposing. Counting the outside the core and the inside the core, you could kill that. But two different hunting management styles based on, you know, they are going to call in the core area.

They're going to call hunters more or less one by one. Give them shorter periods of time to kill. As soon as they kill, if it's a boar, boom, keep calling people in until that one female sub quota might be killed. That's a very conservative approach. You know, we did have an episode here five or six episodes ago. You can backtrack and talk to us as we talked about some of that. We will probably have another one. So stay tuned on that. But just bringing that to your attention, that passed and will be forthcoming pending any kind of litigation, which, you know, I've seen crap from National Geographic Society. I've seen crap in Facebook feeds and all that. Now that the sky is falling in terms of the environmentalists and what they think now this means to the grizzly bears in the lower 48 states.

But as you, if you listen to our podcast here last month and you hear about how many bears, they're really there and what this could potentially kill. It won't even keep up with recruitment. You know, and they're, I mean, I get their concern is, okay, grizzly bears, one of the slowest reproducing, you know. I mean, it's not like they're proliferating across the west at a rapid pace, but in those areas. But they have in the last 40 years. In those areas, they're expanding. I mean, they're, and the population is easily sustainable, of course. That's why they do, that's why they lifted their federal protections. Yeah, and they kill 15 to 20 bears a year. Elk hunters a year shoot them in self-defense in Wyoming, 15 to 20 bears. I had a good friend this week, he's up black bear hunting in Montana and right there on the Wyoming-Montana border. And they did not see a single black bear.

They saw like nine grizzlies. Yeah. This is going to be an awesome hunt for the people to get the opportunity to do it. I mean, this is a, this is a ultra game-rich, non-experienced grizzly population in terms of non-experienced to them being the targets. Yes. They're used to hearing gunshots and they come running. Thinking it's a dead elk. Dinner bell. Yeah, that's the dinner bell. So it's exciting news. Stay tuned. We'll keep you brought up to speed on that. While we're on the topic of Wyoming, we might just mention, they are, they have their super tag raffle. They've been supporters of us. We've had many good, close friends and members of Epic Outdoors draw some of these Wyoming super tags. Both the trifecta, which is a $30 raffle tag entry. You get to choose any three big game species that you want statewide, any unit.

Or you can spend $10 per entry for species-specific hunts for, you know, the sheep, elk, goat, moose, bison, deer elk, antelope, all that. How many stories? We've had, I don't know, half a dozen stories of guys who've drawn those over the last few years. Yeah. Yeah, trifecta stories and one trifecta from Russ Elms. I mean, he drew the trifecta the year he drew a regular sheep tag. So he killed two rams in one year on draw tags. And that's perfectly legal. And it was legal. It was awesome. That was one of our second issues we ever put out. So anyway, shout out to that.

If you're getting notices like I am right now with a lot of red and a lot of unsuccessful, this is not a way to plan your schedule for this fall. But it's a plan to keep the dream alive a little bit. Yes. So you're saying there's a chance. So as far as the trifecta, why don't you explain, Adam, what do I get if I put in for the trifecta and I actually draw that or win that? What is that? You get to choose three species of your choosing. So, I mean, sheep would be the no-brainer. I'd pick bison. I'd probably pick elk after that. I'd kill the mountain goat. I might kill a goat. Go for it. Yeah, maybe a shy or s. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know, Jeff. I don't know. But I'd shoot a bison and I'd shoot a sheep. Those would be the two no-brainers because I don't have a bison and you can't have enough sheep. And so that would be the two. But you get a pick.

So once you draw that, it's open-ended. Anybody that picks, you know, I think you can pick maybe black bear and wolf and antelope. I don't think grizzly is an option. I don't think grizzly is an option. I don't think grizzly. Maybe in the future. If that is in the future, that would be, they would probably, if they sell tickets for a trifecta or even just $10 tickets for a grizzly, they'll make some money. Yeah. Oh, I'd be on it. Of any drawing out there, I honestly think this is one that I would love to win. Yeah. It's so a trifecta. You can pick three. That'd be cool. That's right. Amazing. So just a deadline to apply or buy your tickets online is July 2nd, which is the day the points only, I believe, opens either 2nd or 3rd. So anyway, we've also got some giveaways here.

Just we're drawing near the end of at least one of them that wanted to, I know you probably heard about us talking about them before, but we are up until June 1st. You can still enter our giveaway for our 14-day doll sheep combo hunt in Alaska. And the only way to get in for that is to either join our service or refer someone that joins our service by June 1st. That was from March 1st through June 1st, 2018. Anybody that joins or refers somebody that joins, you get a name in the hat for referring somebody, and the individual who joins gets the name in the hat. If you want to buy your membership for a buddy or a hunting companion or whatever, you want to pay for it, you can elect to get both entries for yourself. You've got to do that by June 1st. We will do that drawing immediately after that. As soon as we've got everything ready to go, usually it's within a day or two.

We want to get that out. But the hunt is for 2019, so there's no rush on having to get ready and things like that. And you can kill a grizzly on that one. You can shoot a grizzly. You can shoot a caribou. You can shoot a black bear. You can shoot wolf. You can shoot wolverine. All that would be included. And so that's coming up here. That promo ends June 1st. And the second one that we have is a stone sheep hunt giveaway. We had an opportunity to come up. We bought it and decided let's give it away. Give it away is a stone sheep hunt giveaway. A $25 raffle ticket gets you in the hat. You can do five tickets for $100 or $10 for $200. And that $10 for $200 package gets you an outdoor edge knife as well. And that one is a 2018 hunt, August 16th to the 29th. 14-day hunt. Full base price paid.

All you've got to pay is your incidental licenses, your airfare up, your charters, your tip, your tax and things like that. But the base price is fully paid for. Which for a lot of people, $35,000, $40,000 hunt is a dream right now. So this is a way to, if you've got $25,000 or $100,000, somebody's going to win a stone sheep hunt and go this August. If you win this hunt, you only got two months to prepare, which isn't that amount of time. But if you find yourself, you know, I don't know how most people would make time if they want a stone sheep to rearrange their schedule. Well, and, you know, the nice thing is, is I really don't know of a stone sheep hunt opening this year with any outfitter that... That is this caliber. That's this caliber. I mean, I don't, honestly, there's not a lot left in 2019 either when it comes to this quality of a hunt. Yeah, that's right.

This outfitter, Luke Vince, he takes, in this concession, takes three hunters a year. That's it. Three 14-day hunts back to back to back. This is the second one. We have another member booked on the first hunt. And the second hunt is this giveaway. 14 days hunting. You can kill a moose or a goat on a trophy fee for $5,000 each if you want to do that. I would like that. Great opportunity. Somebody's going to win it. You can buy tickets online, epicoutdoors.com, or give us a call, 435-263-0777. You have until June 19th to buy them, and we'll get that done within a day or two after that and draw the lucky winner. So somebody's going to hunt, have a couple great hunts here, giving away here in the next three weeks here through Epic Outdoors. So maybe just one, since we're talking about sheep, I want to throw out one more plug to the Wild Sheep Foundation.

They've been a great organization and a partner of ours at Epic Outdoors from the very start. I encourage you all to become members, regular members, life members, summit life members, whatever, of the Wild Sheep Foundation. You know, I would be very curious to see where the sheep hunting would be across the West without them. That's right, and all the chapters and affiliates that we have throughout the West and even some of them back East. I mean, we had the opportunity, Jeff, you, Jason, and I, we went to the Midwest chapter in Minneapolis this March. Unique setting there for us to go there. They've got chapters there. They've got them in, you know, Iowa. They've got an Eastern chapter back East where they have no sheep for all intents and purposes. But they, a lot of sheep hunters are very passionate and like to put their money back on the ground to, you know, further the cause.

And we all know sheep are intensive to manage. So appreciate the Wild Sheep Foundation stepping up with us.

I can't think of anything else announcement-wise. So we got that out of the way. So, you know, a couple weeks ago or maybe just a week ago, we had a podcast. It was Jeff and John and Chris about some outfitting questions. How long ago was that? It was a couple weeks. It was episode 69. 69. We had a lot of questions from guys that just want a little bit more, you know, basic information on how to expand their hunting knowledge and how when it comes to talking about outfitters or guided hunts, whether they draw a tag and they want to, you know, set something up. Or if they don't, they want to try to pick somebody to go on a hunt. This is kind of the time of year too, Jeff, that you and Jason and I start filling a lot of calls from the people that are sad and they want to be happy. And they're sad because the draws haven't filled up what they want or given them what they want.

And they want to do something. I mean, it's, I don't know, how many times a day we're getting. Or vice versa. They got lucky. They did draw the tag and now they want to make the most of it too. So that, you know, that's another reason to buy, to, you know, book a guided hunt. You know, we've been chatting a lot about Nevada lately.

Talk about a place where you may be hunting public ground, but an outfitter's worth their weight in cold. Well, and you talk to, I don't know how many elk hunters in Nevada I've talked to today. Maybe 25, it feels like. I've talked to tons of people that are drawn elk. But Nevada elk tags for non-residents are one or maybe two in your life in reality. Yep. Because you, on average, you'd play for 12 to 20 years. 20 is high. Yeah. But 10 to 15 is a slot that's very common. And if you draw less than 10 years, you know, zero to five, you got extremely lucky. Okay. Yes. You draw a tag. You have a seven-year waiting period after you draw. Okay. That's seven years. So let's take it 13 years to draw. And now you've got to wait seven. That's 20 years, and you're starting to put back in on the ground floor again. It's really, for some people, they may not even do it.

Other people, you might get two. So I guess where I'm going with that is, yeah, it's not something. Make the most of it when you get it. It's not a New Mexico where you can just play willy-nilly every year, alter your strategy, draw something easy. Ah, I just need a tag. Give me something next year. Oh, I'm busy. I better go for some of the better helas. Nevada, the quality. There's really not very many bad elk hunts in Nevada. And there's some incredible elk hunts in Nevada to kill giant bulls. So, yeah, making the most of it. And that's kind of what we want to talk about today. And maybe initially, you know, focus a little bit on the guy, maybe who's never been on a guided hunt, or not a lot of them, in terms of whether it be a public land outfitter, like we're talking about here in Nevada, or, you know, just how to go through that process and things like that.

Or a private land outfitter, if you need a guaranteed tag somewhere in this time of year, which we're just about to, as you were almost through with all the deer and elk states here. You know, you almost ignore. Results are starting to pour in. And this next week, we're going to hear about Colorado. And that's a big one. A lot of broken hearts between today and over the next week or so. You know, and after that, we do have Idaho and Wyoming that will come out in June, as well as late June this year, I think Arizona. But, you know, after that, or even right now, it's a nice, it's a good time to start preparing and seeing the writing on the wall that if you don't think you got what you want and you need something, you know, give us a call. And so I might turn the time over a little bit to you, Jeff and Chris, to kind of hash

this over in terms of going through some of the questions to help, you know, just help give people things to think out, you know, think about. Maybe if you think you've already been on a guided hunt, but maybe a few questions that you might discuss here today that people might have on their mind when they call an outfitter and how to vet them a little bit, not from a perspective of are they good or not, because we wouldn't give you somebody from the start that's not great. But just for the things that are important to you and things like that. So why don't you and Chris take it away? We'll hammer it out a little bit here. So, you know, just on the subject of this, we're just going to keep rolling with it is, you know, the reasons why you really want to book a hunt. But, you know, like Adam said, first and foremost, to get the most out of a draw tag, if you draw

the tag and you need to get the most out of that hunt, you really need, you really need to evaluate whether going with an outfitter would be a good option for you. You know, we've covered the fact that some of these tags are maybe not once in a lifetime, but close to. You're just not going to draw a lot of those tags, you know. And if you really evaluate how much time and effort you have to put in to be able to hunt these tags, you know, I've hunted some great tags on my own. And I'll be honest, I've hunted a sheep tag in Utah. I've hunted the Henry Mountains. I drew a Henry Mountains tag in Utah as well. I got a little guff from this on my sheep tag, okay. So I was trying to work, and I was trying to scout, and then I was trying to hunt. All at the same time, I was fairly young. What was I, like 26-ish, you know. And I hadn't started my own business yet.

I was still working for some guys up in Logan. But anyway, so it was like every weekend, it was like I'd take a four-day weekend, and I'd drive to the unit, and then I'd burn through the gas in the unit, and burn through the camping gear, burn through everything, and I'd drive back. And honestly, if you really waited out, by the time I got done with that hunt, I probably could have hired an outfitter that spent less money. And how many days did you actually spend in the field? You know, so even on the hunt, I spent 14 days on the hunt. I hunted for 14 days to kill the ram I killed. But in all honesty, I was probably over 30 days into the hunt. Now, if you figure the time off work, you figure the fuel, the camping expense, everything, I'll almost guarantee I could have hired a good outfitter for the price I was into that. So in the end, yes, you know, I'm excited. I did it on my own.

Yeah, that's great. But do I feel like it could have been, it would have been less rewarding if I'd hired somebody? I don't know. I think I would have, there would have been a less, there would have been a lot less emotional trauma in myself. Because I was, by the end of that hunt, I was down to like the third to last day on a 30-day hunt. And I was, I'll tell you what, you start feeling some pressure those last few days start coming. What I found on some of those bigger tags is there is a lot of pressure and it's seven to 10 years maybe every time you go on one of those hunts is a big gap. You're putting a lot into it. You know, that sheep tag is once in a lifetime. Henry's tag is basically once in a lifetime. Yeah. And those were hunts that, you know, I'm never going to have again. Like I will never have either one of those tags again in Utah.

Um, I mean, I guess I do play the raffle up there at the, at the hunting expo and that's the only way I'll ever have one of those tags again. But, uh, but yeah, so, um, that's the thing is you have to, you have to make the most of it when you got it. It's hard to take a once in a lifetime type tag and base it all on me with zero experience in that unit. Maybe if I've been there before and I have some extra knowledge, but just showing up on the unit and trying to make a once in a lifetime hunt happen. It's tough. That's really tough. It's tough. You burn, you know, you burn years off your life, you know, to, to put it plain and simply. Um, it, it's tough, but you know, but it's all, you know, it, it's all worked out for the most part. Um, you know, maybe the Henry's didn't quite work out for me so great, but we won't, we're not going to get into that whole mess.

But anyway, um, guided hunts are, are you're paying for somebody's expertise in the unit. Generally, when you buy, when you book a hunt, you're paying for expertise. You're paying for most of the time you are getting a camp and the gear and all that stuff with it, you know, and, and some guys don't offer that. Some guys do, uh, you know, the majority of the hunts out there, they're offering, you know, the full gamut, the guide, the outfitted part, you know, you don't have to worry about bringing your own camp trailer, dragging it across from Michigan to, to Utah to hunt or whatever. Um, so, so that's another major, you know, that's a major cost savings. So the experience, the outfitted side and, uh, a lot of guys, you know, there's a lot of hunts out there where you're buying the private ground. You could also be buying the tag, you know, all wrapped up into one.

Um, a lot of guys will do hunts on public ground as well, of course, like those Nevada hunts. Um, and basically you're buying on those, you're buying their expertise in the unit. We had a guy, I talked to a guy a little while ago, he drew a tag in Nevada and elk tag. And a lot of those elk tags in Nevada for rifle, they're late season hunts, right? Mm-hmm. So he spent three days on the unit with the hunt open and had not seen a single elk, not one.

He ended up getting desperate and was like, um, I'm gonna eat my basically once in a lifetime tag. Yeah. And I'm not willing to do it. Makes a phone call to an outfitter. Luckily the guy had already killed the outfitter, had a hunter. Had a, had some space open. Yes, had some space open because he booked a guy and the guy killed and the guy had gone home. So he had some space open. Um, within two days, the guy had killed like a 350 plus bull and, and, uh, went from seeing zero elk to being in the middle of elk just because there's somebody that spent his life on the unit, you know, basically it spent a lot of time. Well, a lot of times there's, you have these units that have very short season dates and that can make all the difference in the world because if you show up and let's say you'd like in New Mexico, you've got a five day season.

Well, you're going to spend three to four days figuring out where you're at, where the, where the animals are located. And by the time, by the time you do that, it's too late. Yeah. You're going to get on the bulls or find a buck and the season's over. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a scary thing. Guys don't realize that in, in New Mexico, you know, yeah, I'm going to go down there and make, make it happen on my own. You got five days, you got five days to pull that hunt together. Um, you know, that's why in general, you're buying higher success rates too. When you're going outfitted, it's just, you know, it's a fact that that's what you're doing, you know? And when you look at some of these units, especially some of these elk units in Nevada, and you're looking at, you're looking at success rates between 30 and, and 46 to 50%.

And you realize that the outfitter that was there last year was a hundred percent on everybody he took. And he took five guys and there's, you know, 25, 35 tags available. You're like, what percentage of that success came strictly from the outfitted guys? You know, it's a little scary because if you have minused all those outfitted guys out of there, what would those success rates be? It might scare you just a little bit in some areas. And outside of success rates, one of the things that we've seen is from all the photos that come in, a lot of times the bigger animals come from our outfitters. Yeah, it's true. And I think that's all comes back to time. Not always, of course. Not always. People get lucky and people put in their time on their own, but there's something to be said for an outfitter who's out there all the time.

And not only this year, but they've probably been hunting that unit for the last five years. So they know what to expect. If you get into a dry year or something, they know the changes. Yeah, they've seen a dry year. Yeah. They have experience. And so. They know where they go when it rains. They, you know. Yeah. I mean, you experienced a little bit of that. A lot of it. Last year on your elk tag. A lot of it. I was up against maybe what I was talking about when I was referring to New Mexico, where it's kind of a shorter season. Well, the same thing happened to me. I got in there. I started scouting. But it was days and days before I was making any headway. And. Well, and it was an off year. Yeah. It was an incredibly hot, dry fall. And anybody that hunted Arizona last year knows that. It was. It was very abnormal. And places that you'd talk to guys. Oh, you go here. You go here.

The elk weren't there. Yeah. I did tons of research. I talked to a lot of guys. And everybody was, you know, giving me pointers. And I went through the maps. And I bought all the maps. And I went down four to five days early. And still. Across the place. Every bit of information that I had gathered from people that had hunted it in the past led me basically nowhere. Because it was a different year. It wasn't typical. Like, things had changed. And the bulls were not in the standard areas that they normally are. Yeah. So, of course, at that point, I start reaching for friends I know that. They're guides down there. And they've spent, like I said. They've outfitted for years. Years down there. And they've seen some of these off years. And honestly, it was a game changer. Because all of a sudden, they pointed me in a little bit different direction.

And I started going to these areas where I wouldn't have gone before. And then I started finding some bulls. Well, it just so happens it was the second to last day. Before you really got into it. Before I really figured it out. And it was because of the knowledge of an outfitter. And all of a sudden, I ran out of time. Yeah. Couldn't make it happen. But you were in them. I was in them. You were in them. And I got to the point. It was a muzzleloader hunt. But I got to the point where the last evening, I had a shot. I could take a shot. But it was longer than I was comfortable with with the muzzleloader. And it just wasn't in the cards. Yeah. Ran out of time. It's painful. It's painful, man. You know, when you eat those tags, boy, it hurts. And it hurts for a little while. Well, yeah. Because I'm almost a decade applying down there. Yes. That's 10 years.

And had I just went in the first place and hired the outfitter, spent a little bit more money, guess what? We probably would have been on those bulls on day two or three. Yeah. Because more than likely, he'd already been on the unit for a little while. And on those late hunts in Arizona, it's not like those bulls are just showing up in some of those places. They've been there for a few weeks. You know, they got time to put into it. And Chris, you don't have time in the fall. Like, you're busy running around chasing, you know, hey, Chris, we want you over here. In fact, you, man, I mean, it was like you went up to Idaho with me and my boy and you videoed up there and then you went straight to New Mexico, videoed with Jason. And it was just... I went straight to Colorado. I was actually in Colorado for three or four days right before I was supposed to be in Arizona.

And I actually cut my Arizona scouting short because I was in Colorado. Working over there. Yeah. So anyway, there's just a lot of little things like that. Another thing, I mean, to think about is getting a camp set up in some of these places. When you hire an outfitter, the nice thing is, is you don't... You get to go hunt. You don't have to go camp. Right? Does that make sense? So you're not worried about coming back at the end of the day and thinking, Oh man, now I got to make dinner. I got to get a fire. I got to worry about what do I got left for food in here? You know? And you don't have to worry about that. You get to go hunt. You know? And that's worth something. You know what I mean? That's worth something. The accommodations, the logistics, you know, it'll crush a guy going into a unit that he maybe cruised around in, pre-season scouted, whatever, and then coming back.

Things are not in the same place. They've moved to a new area. Well, you know, you got around earlier without the need of a four-wheeler or ATVs or anything like that. Well, now all of a sudden you need them. And guess what? They're 300 miles away. You know, four or five, six, seven, eight thousand miles or whatever it is away at home. And you're like, I wish I would have brought a few more items with me. You know? And maybe you don't know the road system as well as you should. And just by having an outfitter, it solves all of those issues. Yeah. So, okay. We pumped outfitters pretty hard here. But the fact is, is we want our members, you know, our members, we want guys getting the most out of their hunts. We get excited when members call us and tell us about draw results. When people tell us about successful hunts, man, we love it. We love hearing about it.

So, we've been through kind of why you want an outfitter, why there's so many benefits to having an outfitter. So, now let's go to a more basic thing of how do I find an outfitter? So, let's say I draw a tag or I'm interested in picking up a tag. What should be my first steps in trying to find an outfitter that's right for me? You know, I mean, I'm, of course, going to put a plug in for us right here.

We work consistently with guys all across the West. We talk to them. I mean, we become friends with a lot of these outfitters. Jason and Adam have known a lot of these guys for, oh, 10 plus years. We know their track record. We know who's killing what. We know what got killed where and by what outfitter. So, one excellent way to learn a little bit more about outfitters, give us a call. Talk to me. You know, I kind of specialize in outfitted hunts, but talk to Jason and Adam, too. I mean, we, this is what we do. You know what I mean? We help guys have successful hunts.

The other places, you know, if you are not a member of Epic Outdoors. Now, if you're looking for an outfitter no matter what, give us a call. You do not have to be a member of Epic Outdoors to call for a reference to an outfitter. That's not, yes, it is. It's part of member service, you know, part of our member services. You know what I mean? But it's not necessarily, we're not going to, you know, there are certain parts that we only, you know, members only for this, members only for that. But booking a hunt is not part of that. We'll help anybody book a hunt, whatever you're looking for. And this is what Jeff does every single day. Yeah. So we'll have guys call in. Maybe it's a guy that didn't draw a tag and he wants to go on a hunt. So he'll call Jeff and say, look, I want a mule deer hunt. This is my budget. This is kind of my expectations.

And even if Jeff doesn't have anything at the moment, he's going to find something. He's going to find a hunt for you. So luckily, you know, we do have a lot of outfitters that call us. And I do call a lot of people. You know, I talked to a couple guys today that just said, hey, you know what? I actually just had this moose opportunity in Northwest Territories open up $4,000 off the regular price. You know, we do a little bit of everything there. So, yeah. I mean, if you are looking for something specific, you know, make sure you give me a budget. You give me an idea of what you want. And then we, you know, I'll go to work for you. I'll see if I can find you something. If I don't have something right off the top of my head, you know, we can help. Another thing is you can do a lot of research online with a lot of guys. You can look up websites. You can do all that.

Now, I will warn some people. Some people are, some outfitters are great salesmen. Some are great hunters. Some are great hunters. They're poor logistics guys. And poor businessmen. Poor businessmen. You know, I mean, some of the best hunts that we have, I mean, the outfitters don't even have a website. Yeah. Don't have Facebook. Nothing. Don't have Facebook. Nothing. So, that's something that you do. You know, you're only going to find out about that hunt if you talk to us, probably. But there's others that, yeah, you can see what they're killing on social media. You can see all that stuff. I will tell you that, you know, we deal with some of these guys in some of these states that we hear outfitters complaining about. Other outfitters poaching their pictures. Poaching, you know, maybe their success. You know what I mean?

Well, and what I'm saying in poaching, they're going in and they're taking pictures from other people and they're putting them on their website pretending it's theirs. So, you can't always believe everything you see is what I'm saying. And, you know, you've got to be somewhat discerning in what you're looking at. You know, most all of our outfitters, I've talked to people that have been on their hunts with them, whether it be members or whether it's guys. You know, most guys will give you a reference list. And you've got to read through when you're talking to outfitters. When you're talking to, I'd suggest anybody to get a reference list. You know, unless you're dealing with somebody that's been with them before or whatever, unless you're dealing with somebody like us or somebody that can really knowledgeably talk about the outfitter, talk to the outfitter about references. Get a list.

They should be more than willing to give you a list of guys. And then you've got to be able to read through the comments from the guys that have hunted with them. Okay. For example, I'm not going to mention any names. Now, this is an outfitter that I endorse to a point. I will give you a cameo. If I send you this guy, I'm going to give you a warning. But I do endorse him. Okay. So I'm talking to the guy. I'm checking up on references. Right? I'm talking to a guy. The guy's hunted with him seven times. So I'm like, hey, you know, if this guy's got this much repeat clientele, he's doing all right. Well, I'm talking to the guy, and he tells me specifically. He says, now, he's not a very patient person.

Or he says, he really wants you to kill something. The guy will work your guts out. He will not force you to kill something. But if he sees something good, he is going to harp on you until it's dead. But works extremely hard. So he's not a guy that I'm going to send a 75-year-old guy with a bad knee hunting with that guy. And to a lot of guys, that's a great thing. You want that in your outfitter. But to some people, it's just something you need to be aware of. Yeah. There are certain things. You've got to be able to kind of read it. You've got to kind of, you know, take some of the things that people say with grain salt. You've got to be able to read through it. You know what I mean? It's just not something where you can take everything at face value 100%. Because sometimes guys will just click with certain outfitters, and other guys won't.

So, you know, you'll get a guy that's been back seven times. Well, he's been back seven times because, you know, they had a really great experience the first time. And, you know, just hasn't, you know, hasn't really done much ever since. But, you know, had a great experience. So he's always talking good. Always treats him good price-wise or something like that. But, you know, for the most part, when you see a high percentage of repeat clientele, that usually means something good. You know, it means he's got the right property. It means he's got the right, you know, the right sub-guides. It means he's got, and I will say this too. You do have to be careful. Try to get as recent, the most recent references you can. You want to hear, talk to people that went with him last season. Because we've got guys that I've talked to.

You know, they're guys that we might have endorsed or something like that. Or we might, you know, we're right on the verge because we talked to people that Jason Adam had dealt with five, six, seven years ago. Well, then you talk to somebody who went with him last year. Oh, he lost the ranch that he had. You know, or, you know, just there was an issue. Yeah, things change. Circumstances change. And to be up on that, you kind of got to talk to somebody who's been with him recently or talk to us or somebody that kind of is in the know still. Yeah. You need the most recent references you possibly can get out of those guys. And that helps. So, you know, use your social media. Use references. Talk to guys that have been successful. And, you know, also talk to guys that have been unsuccessful. You know, some of the guys that I've picked up over the last year or so.

One of the reasons I like that, I talked to somebody that was unsuccessful. And they'll flat out tell you, you know, the guy had the best horses that I've ever rode. That I didn't kill a thing. He's like, in fact, I saw very little because maybe a die off or maybe something happened that just threw him off. But we'll flat out tell you, I'll hunt with that guy anytime I get a chance to. You know, that means something to me. That means it's quality experience. But now, am I going to take some guy that, you know, is just like, I've got to kill something. I've got to hurry up and go hunting. Am I going to send that guy with that outfit or no, I'm not. Because that guy is 100% about the success. He's not about the journey. Not about the experience. And some guys, that's the way people are. Some guys are about the experience. Some guys are just about, you know, what they're able to kill.

And there's nothing wrong with being either way. I mean, in my opinion, you have some goals that you're trying to meet. You just need to get the right outfitter that will meet those goals for you. So all that being said, I mean, there are so many ways and places that you can research hunts. The internet is a huge tool. Social media is great. But like Jeff's saying, just be very, very cautious. I would always talk to someone who's been with that outfitter. I would never go blind. It's just such a hard thing because a lot of these guys can put whatever they want on their website. And they can sell you over the phone. And then once you show up. They might be a great salesman. Yeah. Yeah. Once you show up, it may be a different ballgame. And you're out $10,000 or $5,000, whatever it may be. But still, it's something you definitely need to talk to people who have been with them before.

And there are certain areas that are just famous for it. I mean, Alberta. I mean, I talk to more guys that have had bad experiences in Alberta. Spent some serious money going up there and had bad experiences. I mean, that's just, it seems like one of the places you get. And I'm not bagging on, you know, Alberta by any means. But I'm just saying that, you know, be wary of whatever you're going to do. You know, moving on to the next thing when we're talking about prices there is, well, what are some other options? Okay, I can't afford a $7,000 hunt. What are some other options? Well, there are semi-guided options. There are also drop camp options that you can look at. You know, semi-guided, New Mexico is probably one of the more famous places for a semi-guided hunt.

There are guys in New Mexico that will sell you, that will sell you like a two or three day hunt, basically. Or a, you know, even guys in Arizona and whatnot. They'll sell you a scouting package where basically they have done a lot of the legwork. They're going to hand you a map. They're going to say, okay, this is what we've seen. This is where we've seen it. And you can buy it for anywhere from $1,200 to $2,500. You can kind of get a head start on the unit. That's a happy medium for a guy that likes to do it on your own. Like, if you're a DIY guy. And has the camping gear and you can get there easy enough. And you have the skills and you've done it before. But maybe you just don't have that much time. Yeah. It's a great option. Yep. Another way to go. And a lot of guys use this, like, in Idaho, Colorado, is drop camps. There are a lot of drop camp options that you can take.

Even, you know, in Alaska is probably one of the bigger ones, too. If you just don't have the gear, you want to get in the back country, you want to get away from a lot of the pressure, drop camps are great. You know, we have guys that will ride you in. You know, take you in on horses. You know, in Colorado, Idaho, same thing. They'll take you in with horses, drop you off. You can do your hunt. And then come back, pick you up. You know, they might have, some guys will actually have a full camp set up in there. You know, wall tent camp, full outfitter camp. You know, kind of a heavy camp. And get you in there. You can hunt. And then they'll come back in so many days, pick you up. You know, they'll take you. A lot of guys will do different food options, different camp options, whatever. It just depends on the area and the outfitter that you're looking at.

But will also, a lot of those guys will actually go pick up your game. So if you're hunting elk in the back country of Colorado, I don't know how many people who are listening to this have tried to get an elk on their back and pack it out on their own. That's an intense ordeal. You know, if you're trying to pack an elk a mile, even a mile, and I know a mile sounds like not that far when you're out jogging on the treadmill. A mile in the back country of Colorado is a long ways. Especially if you're by yourself. Especially if you're by yourself to try to pack an elk. You may have got there okay by foot, but by the time you get something down, it's a whole other story. So there are guys that will actually go and do game retrieval for you. You know, they'll include that in part of the drop camp hunt. So keep that in mind.

Alaska, if you're looking at Alaska, lots of drop camp options in Alaska, especially when you're going up for moose or caribou. Prices on a drop camp in Alaska are basically ranging anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000, $11,000. Some guys have excellent areas they're flying people into for, you know, for like a moose hunt. There's one drop camp up there I know of. They're running nearly 100% on their moose, you know, but they charge $10,000 for that drop camp. And they require you to, you know, you have to use their food, their equipment. They don't let you bring it on their own because they know exactly what you're going to need to go in here. And so that's part of the reason they charge a little bit more is because they're flying you back there, dropping you off, but you're completely using their equipment while you're in there. They know exactly how much it all weighs.

They know how durable it is. And they know how to give guys a successful hunt. So that's what they're providing for it. Those are great ways. You know, drop camps in Colorado and Idaho, you know, they're running basically from $2,200 to, you know, $3,200 somewhere in there. So they're a great option just to get back and away from people, have a good hunt without, you know, without having the full cost of hiring a guide to sit there and do it. And, you know, that's still kind of doing it on your own too, you know. You still have that pride of, you know, I hunted this bull down. We called them in. Me and my buddy called them in. Something like that. Also, private ground access. You know, a lot of people call and just say, hey, I just need some good private ground. Unfortunately, we don't know of a ton of those situations. There's just not a lot across the West.

Most of the best private ground usually gets locked up by outfitters, right? It's under lease. It's under lease. So, I mean, there are some that we do know about in Colorado that are, you know, private ground that you can go and you can hunt. Basically, drop camp situation but with the private access as well. But there's just not a lot that's, you know, and like I said, mostly because, hey, it's really good. An outfitter knows he can make money on it and he's going to guide it and he's, you know, he's going to put somebody on it. And some landowners, and I'll say most landowners, just don't want guys traipsing around their ranch or whatever, their private ground without some supervision. Yeah. So, you know, say one guy, he says, okay, yeah, you know, you got access to the place for this price.

Well, next thing you know, the guy goes out there and ends up accidentally shooting an animal across the fence. It happens to be the neighbor's property. Well, who's that neighbor going to come back and attack? He's going to, you know, it just builds good friends if they, you know, if they keep guys guided and stuff like that. So, you'll see that, you know, it's a little bit tougher to find a true private property trespass only type of deal, you know, across the West. Yeah. Yeah. So, kind of moving on to one of the things that I've seen as a, probably the number one problem with guided hunts is lack of communication before the hunt. Guys that don't have the right expectations because they didn't talk to the outfitter enough beforehand. They didn't ask enough questions. They didn't research enough with that outfitter. Most problems that arise on hunts can be avoided before the hunt. Yeah.

If you are informed, if you talk to the outfitter, if you ask them the right questions and you're prepared when you get there. I had one outfitter basically told me, you know, I had a guy show up and this is on a sheep hunt in Canada. And he's like, yeah, he had $45 leather boots, uninsulated. And just things like that can all be avoided. Yeah. That will hurt the success of that hunt. I mean, that guy will be blistered up and be in trouble, you know, the first day into it. Also, you know, I mean, along with expectations, I've talked to another guy. He had a, I mean, he was just a bear hunter. The guy just came up bear hunting, showed up and the guy didn't know it was a horseback hunt.

And the outfitter didn't know the guy was 325 pounds. Yeah. And it basically stopped there. It was okay. We're done with this situation. And both went their separate ways because they couldn't do it. Now, that's devastating to the poor guy that drove up there thinking he's going to have a great hunt. You know, he's got a bear hunt coming. It's devastating to the outfitter because, hey, I just lost that income. Yeah. You know, so, and I will warn everybody up front. Some of these outfitters are great killers. They are great hunters. They are not great businessmen. So, don't be afraid to, you know, help them dot the I's, you know, cross the T's. Make sure you need to be a savvy purchaser of whatever you're buying, right? You need to be on your game too. You know, I don't expect an outfitter or whoever I'm hunting with to be, if he was a businessman, I'd almost be worried.

If he was just an incredibly on-the-ball businessman on his game 100%, I'd be like, oh, what's the catch here? This guy's going to get me for something or he's way too, you know what I mean? So, you need to be prepared because, yes, a lot of guys are great at both, but a lot of guys are great at one or the other. So, what types of questions do you think are important? For me, I would want to know, like, what are the sleeping accommodations? Tell me about the food. Do I need to bring anything of my own? Do I need to have my own tent? Talking to a guy, basically he went on a sheep hunt, and it was one of those deals where the outfitter provided the tent, and they were supposed to stay in the tent. Well, his buddy snored the entire time, and he didn't get any sleep the entire hunt. That is rough on a guy.

So, on the next hunt, he ended up asking the outfitter, and he was able to bring his own Hilleberg tent, which was a one-man, and slept. Purposely? Purposely. Purposely. And because of that, his next hunt was great. Like, he got good sleep every night because he had his own tent. The right gear. The right gear, and didn't have to deal with somebody else snoring. So, I mean, that goes along with this whole asking questions in advance to your outfitter. If it's a possibility to bring your own tent, I would recommend it. Yeah. If you can do that, say, hey, is it all right if I pack my own tent? Bring a one-man tent. This Hilleberg, the ATCO is the one we've been using. They have a lot of different models, but that one has been great for us. It's lightweight, good to pack. I've been in several camps where clients show up, and the outfitter and the client never talked about the firearm.

Well, they show up with a caliber that's not strong enough for the animal they're hunting. Yeah. And all of a sudden, you've got a huge problem because the outfitter basically has to say, no, you're going to use my gun. And then all of a sudden, you've got a client that's never shot this gun before. Yeah. And it just makes things a little more complicated. No other things. Yep. Whereas, if beforehand you ask the questions and you're prepared, you don't have to deal with that. Yeah. Know your accommodations, for sure. That's a big one. I mean, you might show up and, hey, you know, I actually don't provide your sleeping bag. You know, which would be a common thing. You know, you need to know those type of details. Are you going to be in a tent? Are you going to be in a cabin? Are you going to be mobile? Are you going to be in an RV? You need to know the climate of the time you're hunting.

You know, that's going to be a big one. You need to know what your average daily temperature is, how much rainfall. You know, are you going to be hunting in the snow? You know, and that comes back to just you need to know what gear you're going to need to take, you know, to be prepared. Those are, you know, those are really big things. A lot of guys, and really talk to your Alaska guys about this. When you're going up on moose and bear hunts right now, guys are getting really picky about what gun you're taking with them. I know one outfitter, he's tired of people showing up with their .300 Ultramag thinking it's going to be enough to do the job on moose. He's requiring guys to have something bigger than that, you know. So, and I know down here we think .300 Ultramag, oh my gosh, that's so big, you know, you should be able to kill anything. Nope, he's requiring a little bit more than that.

So that's, you know, those are things that, like you said, Chris, you need to be aware of. You need to be prepared for. You know, speaking of guns, the .3378, yeah, it's getting big enough you can kill just about anything you want with it. And that Weatherby cartridge is hard to beat.

Seen, watched the Thompson guys play around a little bit with that gun. Yeah. I am shocked what that gun will do. Yeah. So just a little plug for Thompson Long Range here. They're, you know, that's one of the first guns they really dialed up and they started using. That is a flat-shooting, long-range gun. It's been their go-to gun since the beginning, I think, you know. It's been their, I guess you could call it their flagship gun, maybe. And part of the reason was is, and you can ask Mark and Scott, but, you know, long-range, heavy-hitting, flat-shooting gun, which eliminates some of that wind. You know, a couple of the issues you get, whether it's a high-wind situation or several different things, if you can go faster and flatter, it's better. And that .3378 that Mark has, I think Jason's going to go up there and do a class with them here soon. It's going to be kind of fun.

But anyway, give them a call at 1-800-584-4079 or just jump online. You can actually see several of the calibers they are, you know, that they're working on, that they've got guys shooting right now at ThompsonLongRange.com, www.ThompsonLongRange.com. So they're also on Instagram, social media, of course. Use those. Check them out. You know, they, the cool thing, one of the coolest things is knowing what your gun does at distances with the round that you're shooting and everything like that. So we talked a little bit about, you know, asking these questions and being prepared. Also on the side, if we have any outfitters listening, there's a little bit that goes into the outfitter communication as well. You probably need to pay attention to some of the same things and ask your client the same type of questions. Yeah, for sure. Make sure they're prepared.

And I'm sure most outfitters do that. But just one of those things, I can't stress enough, these problems that we have with outfitters and clients will be avoided by communicating before the hunt happens. So nobody has unrealistic expectations or false expectations. And especially when you're going out of state, you know, if you're going down to, like, Mexico or going up to Canada, you've got some extra steps, especially transporting your gun. You need to be communicating. I mean, you're going to have to fill out forms to get your gun into those places. Yeah, Mexico is really, I mean, it's pretty tough on that. If you don't know exactly what you're doing, if you get one number wrong, your gun's not getting in the country. No. Or it's not leaving again. Nope. You need, or it's not leaving again, which would be even worse.

So, but yeah, that's stuff that you need to work out with your outfitter. You know, those Mexico mule deer hunts are really popular. Mexico mule deer and coos hunts are really popular right now. And I'll throw out a warning, you know, and we can talk about a few of these hunts right now.

Watch out what you're buying and know what you're buying. Okay, an estate hunt, you might just think, oh, it's just a ranch hunt. That's just another word for ranch hunt. A lot of people, that word estate hunt comes out, you might be buying a high fence hunt. So, you need to just, you need to know what you're buying before you get there. Mexico, it's famous for having estate hunts. You know, high fence hunts. And I'm not talking, you're not going to be able to sit. But, I mean, a lot of guys are thinking, oh, I can see the fence. I'll know. You might not. They might have 80,000 acres fenced in. You know, so just be prepared for that. Know what you're buying before you get there. There are some ranches down there that have partially high fence hunts and partially non-high fence hunts. Yes. And to me, you're getting a little bit borderline.

Like, a lot of times you go down there, you don't really know what you're getting. You don't know what you're getting. Do your research. Do your research. Because it's a very tough lesson to spend 12 grand to get down to Mexico and to pay for a hunt. And then all of a sudden, you don't get what you're planning on getting. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of guys, and I know I've got some outfitters that are really good about doing this, or I better say not doing this, but they get kind of a tag allotment, right, a lot of these Mexico outfitters. Well, some guys will just kill every tag they get. You know, same thing in maybe New Mexico on private ranches and Utah on their private ranches. Just because you get the tag doesn't mean you need to kill it. You know what I mean?

And so a lot of guys are careful about how many tags they get, how many animals they sell, and we'll focus on the quality over the quantity. And that's something that, you know, we probably ought to talk about a little bit. When it comes to prices, you know, what are you looking for? Like, and I think we might have mentioned this on the last podcast, you know, different sizes of bulls, what you're getting for the different size, you know, stuff like that. But, you know, you need to know how big the place is. You need to know how many animals are on the ranch. You need to know how many they are killing versus how many, you know, the average quality and stuff like that and success rates. Those are just things you need to generally know. You need to know what your success rates are on the property. And don't feel, you know, don't feel awkward about asking.

You know, these guys, and especially our outfitters, you know, they're very honest. In fact, I got some outfitters where I'm worried that they consistently undersell the hunts because they're like, I'd rather, you know, under-promise and over-deliver. And I'm like, that's great. But, you know, I sent a guy to you and he didn't book because you way under-promised it. I know what you killed last year. These guys are going to be fine. You know what I mean? But those are the guys I like. I like guys that are under-promising, over-delivering. You know what I mean? And you need to know if, don't plan on finding many hunts from legit guys that will tell you it's 100% success rates. Because, you know what, there's too many factors involved in a hunt. It is still hunting. Now, if you want 100% success rates on every hunt you go on, you know, maybe that high-fence option is great for you.

But for the most part, you need to digest the fact that you might go home empty-handed, which is an awful hard thing to do. But, you know, if you hunt long enough, you kind of get the idea that that's just the way it works. You know, there's a good chance that could happen.

I think there's one thing that a lot of guys, and especially if we go back to the guy who's on the entry level who's not been on a lot of guided hunts, one of the things that a lot of guys I think struggle with or don't necessarily know how to figure out or communicate with their outfitter is tipping. Oh, there you go. That's a good one. So I'm going to go to you, Jeff. What are your recommendations? What do you recommend to guys on tipping your outfitter? Because it's something everybody needs to do. Yeah. You know, and everybody does it. There's not a hard, fast rule on this one.

Now, some people, like, generally, 10% to 15% is kind of the market average, I would say. You know, that's where most people are. Now, if you bought a $40,000 stone sheet punt, are you thinking you should give a $8,000 tip, $7,000, $8,000 tip? No, not necessarily. Most guys, when you get up into that range, $1,500 to $2,500 is plenty. You know, that, you know, and, okay, I got some outfitter out there ticked me because, oh, I usually get $8,000. But, okay, maybe you do. I don't know. But I'm not, if I'm going with you, I'm not planning on giving you an $8,000 tip, buddy. But other than that, yes. I mean, a lot of these, you know, you hear mostly you're going on a $6,500 hunt, $7,500 hunt. You know, it's good to go ahead and plan on around that 10% to 15% mark. You know, $650 to $1,000, you know, that guy's probably going to walk away happy.

If you killed the biggest bull of your life on that hunt, you probably ought to think about giving him a little more than that. Make sure you give him a tip. Those guys are working their guts out. Some of them don't get paid a lot, I mean, on their base wage because there's a lot of logistics, you know. Outfitters got some. Guide's got some. And don't forget to tip your cook, you know. Tip your cook. Tip your spotter. You know, treat those guys good because they're treating you good. A lot of these outfitters, they might take 30 guys. There might only be one or two openings a year because 28 of the 30 spots are taken by repeat clients. So when you come into camp and you want to make sure they know it's you in camp and you're going to take care of them, and if you want to come back next year, there's a spot for you.

So because trust me, if you're dealing with a guy and he's like, you know, I just don't know that we're going to have any of these tags next year, you probably didn't give him a tip or you probably ticked him off somehow. So don't have those expectations of, oh, if I don't kill the biggest thing here, I'm going to be ticked. One of the things that I've seen on a lot of these hunts is hunters will come in and they will tip their guide gear, which sometimes is okay and sometimes it's not. A lot of times they'll leave it behind a spotting scope, which in some hunts, that's great. But the thing I'd recommend, make sure you ask your guide. Say, ask your guide, communicate with your guide and ask them, is it okay if I tip you this spotting scope or would you rather have cash? A lot of guides, they got a spotting scope. They want cash. They want food money. They don't want more gear.

Make sure you communicate that to your guide. If you're going to tip them gear, make sure they're okay with it before you do that. Our outfitter program, we probably have, oh, 300 outfitters that we're dealing with, close to 300 outfitters that we're dealing with all across the West. So if you are looking for any kind of a hunt from basically Mexico to Alaska, we take care of it. Mostly Western-based outfitters is what we're dealing with. We do deal with a few guys in Iowa as well as Kansas that we have. So if you're looking for outfitters in those states, let us know. If you're looking to draw a tag and you want to make sure there's an outfitter in that unit before you draw, say you're looking at Idaho and you're looking at those moose odds in Idaho and you're thinking, man, one and two odds for a moose in Idaho, you know. But you know you can't do it on your own.

It'd be a good idea to give us a call. We can make sure we've got an outfitter in the unit before you apply so that if you do draw, we've got you situated. Another thing that you really need to pay attention to, especially when you're looking at Canada and Alaska, is air charter services. That is an expense that will come up and bite you. But, you know, not just dealing with the gun permits and all that stuff, the transportation of the meat and whatnot, but you need to understand how hard it is to get to your unit. You know what I mean? It's not just a matter of landing. You know, you booked your flight to Fairbanks. You landed in Fairbanks. Now you're like, okay, I'm ready to go hunting. You might have to rent a car, drive to a local, you know, another place, jump on another flight, a charter flight that will actually get you back into your area. When you do that, it costs money.

Most charter flights range from anywhere from $600 to $3,300. So before booking that, before sending that deposit on that hunt, you need to know exactly what it's going to take to get to your unit. But it really varies. You need to know, once again, that just comes down to knowing and understanding where you're going, what you're doing, and coming back to that communication. Guys have bad hunts. Let's face it. It happens. Chris, you've probably been on one of these. I've been on a few. I've been on a few. What experiences have you had, Chris, on these hunts? Oh, it's funny because over the years I've filmed a lot of hunts for a lot of different guys, and a lot of times they're guided hunts. And so I've had the opportunity to be in a lot of outfitter camps, although I wasn't a paid client of that outfitter. So I kind of got to be the fly on the wall.

You probably had to just make sure there was food for you before you got there or room on the plane to get you up there and back out. And sometimes there wasn't. I mean, I've been in camps where there really wasn't food. You know, just interesting experiences. But, I mean, I remember one time I was on a hunt, and the outfitter, he probably wasn't quite prepared enough. Maybe his head was somewhere else. But we showed up, and it was freezing cold. And we were in wall tents. And typically these outfitters will be prepared for cold weather, and they'll have a stove in the wall tent. Well, they didn't have any. So all of these clients were just freezing. Nobody was sleeping good at night. And it was miserable. Like, you couldn't wait until... Like, how cold are we talking? Oh, I don't remember. Honestly, I don't remember on that one. I do remember on another one. It was 45 below.

We were on the Canada border. We were still in Montana. But it was 45 below, and the guide wouldn't leave the lodge because, well, it was too cold. It was dangerous. Yeah. And if it was snowing, we didn't leave. And so that ended up being kind of a bad hunt because we were up there for about seven days, and we didn't leave. We left the lodge maybe once or twice for 15 minutes to glass. And you'd get out of the truck for even a minute to glass, and your eyelashes would start to freeze. It was just insane how cold it was. But just, you know, there can be so many different experiences on where you're at, and there's no guarantees. There's just no guarantees with it. It's one of those things you just have to make your best judgment call, do your research, communicate, and it could still be bad. And it could still be bad. But there is still a chance of it. You know, it's crazy.

But little things like good food can change the difference in a hunt for a lot of people. The accommodations, you know, if you're in negative 45 degree temperatures in a wall tent, you're in trouble. That's going to be a bad hunt. You know, or if the hunters or the outfitter just isn't prepared. I'm not saying that you're never going to run into that if you do all your vetting. You know what I mean? Or even if you book a hunt through us, you know, there's the exception. You might end up stuck in a lodge for five days. This last year in Montana, they had some crazy intense winds and snows early. Wyoming has suffered the same thing where, you know, you just couldn't hunt. Animals weren't moving, you know. And if it blows and snows like that for three or four days and you, maybe you're already two days into the hunt, you know, you hate to say it, but you're probably going home empty-handed.

You just need to be prepared for that. Now, on the flip side of that, the next guy's through. And, you know, I had an outfitter told me this exact same thing. He's like, man, we struggled our first hunt. But after that first hunt, you know, we got all that snow and everything. Our second hunt, we've never seen elk like that in our lives. Everybody filled in the first two days and we were seeing more elk than we could possibly kill. You know what I mean? Way more, you know. So just know Mother Nature plays a big part in a lot of that. Kind of maybe to cap it off, the one thing I think I want to say after being on a lot of guided hunts with guys, every guided hunt will not be perfect. It's kind of one of those things you're going to have some bad hunts in there. If you're going to, if you are a guided hunt guy, every once in a while you're going to have one that's not great.

And it's just part of the game. You kind of have to take the good with the bad. Don't get mad about it or anything. Just stick it out and live with it. It's one of those things. It's hunting. It's hunting. But especially if you get out to these unknowns, maybe Mexico. We kind of look at Mexico as maybe one in every five years you'll have a great hunt. The rest, there's no guarantee. There's no guarantee. It's just one of those things. And they're not cheap. Be prepared every once in a while to have a hunt that's less than perfect. Yeah. And sometimes you get what you pay for, absolutely, with hunting. And sometimes you don't get what you pay for. You know, sometimes you might, you know, I talked to guys, talked to a guy last week. $40,000 in a year on mule deer hunts and didn't kill a buck over $175. So just be prepared. Now, granted, none of those hunts were with one of our outfitters.

But, you know, it happens. If you do it enough, do it long enough, you're going to have both experiences. Another company that we've got to give a little bit of love to here is King's Camel. They got this new XKG series. They're layered. They got a layering system. Different options for different kind of hunts, obviously. Anyway, I did a podcast with some guys from King's. They are really coming out with some great stuff. So be on the lookout. Look up the XKG series. You can give them a call at 877-705-2266 or look them up online at kingscamel.com. You know, and that probably just about sums it up for what we can dive into on a podcast. I mean, I think we've already been way too long-winded as it is. But if you have any questions at all, don't hesitate to give us a call. 435-263-0777. Give me a holler. Let's talk about whatever you're trying to do.

We totally want to help you get on whatever hunt you're looking for. You know, have a budget in mind, whatever, when you give us a call. Or we can help build that. We'll build a plan. Maybe, I mean, we could look at a 10-year plan for you. Help you build to get on whatever hunt you're looking for. Anyway, thanks for listening and roll on.