Applying for Arizona and Wyoming in 2020. In this episode of the Epic Outdoors Podcast we discuss application strategies heading into 2020. The states that have upcoming deadlines for some species are Wyoming and Arizona. We cover these states in our January 2020 issue of Epic Outdoors Magazine. Every year is different. State regulations change, herds trend up and down, tag numbers and management strategies can be adjusted. We do the work for you and help make sense of it all so that you can apply with confidence and make the most of your time, and money.
Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.
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Be willing to eat tags. You might do a lot better off hunting something three times than than once every 25 years.
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More often you’re in the field, the more chance you have at killing something
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Special. And there’s only one tag in each of those units.
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Anything to do with Western Big Games.
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Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.
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Here we go. Hey everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson and Wyatt Bulls, eh, as well as Chris Peterson. I’d like to thank Under Armour for sponsoring these podcasts. Of course, they sponsor about everything we do here at Epic Outdoors. Thank you ua. You can go to ua.com, type in Baron in the search. And up comes all the hunting gear. At least that’s made in Baron and that’s what we like here in the West. So anyway, they do have a force pattern. It’s awesome. Kind of a green version of the Baron. And it comes in a wide variety of, of the different models of clothing they’re making. So 2020. Can you believe it? 2020 is right around the corner. Wow.
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We’re getting old.
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How old? Talked about our
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Mid forties. Mid forties.
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In the articles in this latest magazine. Let’s talk about that. January, 2020
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Magazine, the old Tim Mcgras song comes to mind. Your next 30 years live like your new dying.
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How you gonna do that? I guess you did go to Mexico.
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I’m not, I’m not gonna skydive. I did. I didn’t drink the water. I didn’t go to Mexico. I didn’t touch base, but I was in Let the Caribbean. How’s that? Okay.
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Alright. You didn’t drink the bad water. John drank a little water. He took a pill.
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John’s on that. Yeah, a little
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Handful of water
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Live. Like you feel like you’re dying. Yeah. John, without even trying. He’s on a, on a New Year’s diet cleanse. So we’ve had our New Year’s diet diet Thoughts for the year. We can move on now ’cause that’s about all we were gonna get from us. You
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Guys got any New Year’s resolutions? Wyatt?
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I I don’t have any that I’ve come up with yet. No, I don’t. I haven’t made any yet. I’ve got a couple days though.
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You’ve been thinking about any at all? No,
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Not really. Nope. But I’ve just, that
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Lina tag tag holders in Arizona. Ry hams hunts. No.
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Nope. By the way, I did read that, champ did read that rule. Really for the Utah changes, which that might not be appropriate in this podcast. But Optic Utah does
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Have a
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Few changes. Optics. Optics is the key word. Oh, I read
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It,
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Huh? Yeah,
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You want to expound upon it. Why? We’re talking about,
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Well, I don’t have it in front of me, but I did pull up Utah since we’re really digressing and we’re splattering stuff all over the board right now. Utah Proof some new, they’re called hams. Handgun archery. Muzzle loader. Shotgun seasons for deer. I think there’s only what, three? Yeah, three units. But there’s a couple that we could be. Okay. They’re late. They’re November 6th or seventh through like the 26th or seventh. So man, you their hunter’s eyes light up when they see those on. It’s basically
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To just to abuse token, the migrating populations that the otherwise don’t get hunted very long.
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That’s right. And a couple units, A few, I think book Cliff South Kitz and there was another Northern Utah unit. Yeah, but I don’t remember Morgan South. I could be wrong, but anyway. But yeah, it was archery and the pistol can’t even have a scope. Muzzle loader’s, no scopes. Shotguns. No scopes. So
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Is there a magazine capacity limit on a shotgun? ’cause I mean, 10 shots, you could just let ’em rip ka ka.
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Well, I, I didn’t, I don’t know what, it’s a lot
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Better than a shot. A MZ loader.
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I didn’t, I’ve never hunted big game with the shotgun and I don’t know,
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Let’s say 20 gauge is best for the o o jive and all, you know, all the other things that come into play as far as their ballistic coefficients.
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Kind of like rifle stuff maybe. But anyway, new hunt. But the, the key word is optics. No optics on those firearms pistols, muzzle odors. It’s gonna be more, you can’t really call ’em primitive, but open sight stuff. So
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It’s open sight, but you can still use your, you know, pistol brass in a modern muzzle loader.
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I didn’t see anything that would prohibit that. At first glance. It was mainly keying in on the word optics and that word optics appeared. So anyway, and there’s
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Other changes with turning your tag back. If you turn tag back,
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Major, major change in Utah,
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You know, more than 30 days prior. Basically you can get your points back, but you’re not gonna gain a point. Did they talk about refunds on that?
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I didn’t read that part of the refund part. Yeah, but I think it’s gonna be like it always has been. Meaning you better have be maimed or have a foot in, in the grave
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Before you’re gonna, you’re get your points back, which is a huge deal. And turning it back within 30 days does nothing for you. Absolutely.
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Not even, you’re gonna, not this year’s point. You’re gonna have to have something major wrong.
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Really good doctor friend. To give you a special note.
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Yeah. But anyway, those will be, we’ll talk about those next, next month probably in greater detail. But that’s gonna affect a lot. But in this issue of Epic Outdoors Magazine, since we’re first of the year, we, we just crushed it. The e mags live and online. For those of you that are members, take advantage of that. You’re gonna get to see and peruse through the, the newest stuff for Arizona, elk and antelope and Wyoming, moose, sheep, goat, bison and elk. And before you get it in the mail, which just because of the, the business we’re in, you gotta go to the printer and it’s, you know, roughly two weeks before that’s gonna get to you use the emag, especially these first states of the year where we, you know, we’re not gonna go to print without final regs in our hands and be a year late.
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Other people might do that. We’re not, we’re not gonna have, we’re not just gonna bank that. Nothing’s gonna change and talk about it like we did the year before. We appreciate these state fish and game agencies working with us a little bit because we realize we’re asking them, you know, when their regulations are finalized at the commission meetings, we’re asking to get, get our hands on em, release her eyes on em so that we can get to print and get this turned around. You got, you know, Christmas, you got New Year’s. Both of those involve mail and all that. But anyway, it’s a delayed, the January issue’s always a delayed issue. We realize that. Use the eemax or jump on there and look at it. Okay.
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Okay. Epic outdoors.com. Get on there.
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If you’re not a member, great time to join. It’s,
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Yeah, it is. It’s a great time to join. Basically we have nine issues a year. Come monthly, December through June, talk about all the Western states, drawing on scale percentages, best units, comments on the units, break it down for Western big game. We do talk about Canada, Alaska, Mexico as well. Book hunts up there. But anyway, January’s a great time to join. For those of you out there, it’s kind of it. Even if you joined in June, it’ll go through next June. So you’re gonna get nine issues no matter what. But it’s a new year. It’s the top of the application season. We’re super excited. This is when we really get aggressive with our publication as well as our online. We have interactive online drawing odds, different things like that. And it will help you kind of gr get a grasp on what the options are out there.
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Changes like Adam talked about and whatnot. So anyway, with this particular magazine, it’s January, 2020, volume five, if you can believe it. Crazy issue one cranking through it. I don’t know if it’s 140 or whatever, 150 pages kind of crazy. Do have Clint Lindstrom, old college buddy of mine on the front cover. It’s Arizona Bull. There’s a lot of bulls killed in Arizona. Of course. It’s like Chia Pet down there. When you get water, you grow antlers like crazy. They did that. There was no shortage of giants. Many options to choose for the cover. However, this particular bull is a dream bull of many people. It’s a straight typical, basically 400 inch, six point.
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Pretty awesome bull.
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So yeah, held it in our hands and and lucky for Clint, he’s drawn that unit in the past unit 23. He had an Archer track
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Archer the first go around, right?
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Yeah. He hunted a bull that was 420 inch, six point. And it ended up breaking off. He had some bow problems, a few other things kind of comical but not so funny at the time. But just one of those kind of hunts that didn’t go right has like six points draws this freaking time. Early rifle. Early rifle odds were unbelievable. But with that, Clint and I go back a long ways clear back in the college days of mid late nineties applied back in the day when Deere first came out with the bonus point system and did it with credit card checks. ’cause they accepted personal checks, you know, I mean, back then there was no online. I mean, when did the internet come out? 2000 Maybe late nineties.
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Mid nineties. It was mid nineties when it first came out, when it was thir. But yeah, the, the online application didn’t pick up right off your,
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But I mean remember when we were in college, you basically have encyclopedias and you have like great big like freaking credenzas full of that shiz. Yeah. And now, you know, what’s an encyclopedia? You’d have to Google that to figure out what’s what It’s,
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What’s dictionary? You just marry Webster online. You look it up,
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Right. So, or Urban Dictionary I guess nowadays
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Wikipedia.
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Anyway, so
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Man, we’re digressing.
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Yeah. But anyway, so Clint and I go back a long ways. We’ve killed a lot of stuff, been in on a lot of different animals over the years and awesome, awesome. Basically, I guess my point of that, and I talked about it a little bit in my soapbox for this particular issues, was apply, apply, apply. Guys need to be applying. You never know when your number’s gonna come up. You can force it like Clint did on his first go round with elk like I’ve done for deer. You’ve done Adam multiple different times. You can force it, meaning you have enough points to guarantee you that tag. And then there’s times you get lucky, like the cover bull. He got lucky, you
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Know? Yeah. I, I don’t even apply for those hunts, do you? Early rifles anymore? I mean maybe it’s the
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First
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Choice.
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Choice maybe choice where they go take both your choice and go the next guy. But like you did that 27 Archer, you knew your, your time was coming up.
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Yeah, I knew I was gonna get that a couple years ago. So good example. Then
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We, Adam did his soapbox. He talked about hunting with the crew.
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Yeah, we, we talked about it a minute ago. It’s a, it’s a good time to consider joining Epic Outdoors. And we decided as a way to reward our current members of Epic Outdoors. And those have supported us, I guess in the first four years, four plus years since we’ve been up and rolling a magazine wanted to give a hunt that is dedicated just to our, our members. We’ve done that in the past, but it’s, but it’s this, this one has a little bit of a different twist. So this one’s not gonna be diluted with the ability for anybody to be able to buy tickets, ad tickets, anything like that. The only way that you can be entered into this Nevada Mulder hunt guided by us, the epic outdoors crew, and this is gonna take place in the fall of 2020. The only way to be entered into that is to refer somebody that joins our service Epic outdoors.
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Or if you feel so inclined, you got a brother, a buddy, somebody that’s borrowing your magazine quote, stealing your magazine, whatever you’re sharing, whatever like that. Maybe this is the time you get ’em to buy their own or you buy ’em a gift gift subscription that counts as well. You buy a gift subscription for somebody or get somebody to call and join that uses your name as a referral and the reason that they joined, you’ll get one entry for each person you do that for. And that is the only way that you’ll be entered into that. This will run through February 29th. So anybody that joins from, you know, December through, then we’ll have an entry into that hunt and that’ll be a fully outfitted landowner tag, guide, feet, everything included. And great chance to hunt for 190 inch caliber deer. Hopefully better with us. We’re looking forward to it. Looking to find out who it’s gonna be. So anyway, that’s, that’s what that’s about. I talked a little bit about that and then we kind of got into our application strategies and thoughts. And it’s interesting, Jason, we’ve written these articles for I don’t know how many years, but not just the last volumes, four or five in, in our magazine, but in, in throughout our life a lot. In, in other, in other way shapes or fashions prior
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Lives.
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That’s right. We’ll call it that. But this is, it’s different. You know, we talk, how can we talk about
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The same thing
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Differently? Same thing every year. Like mule deer.
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I think part of it is though we’re now in our mid forties, we were in our mid thirties or early thirties and your life
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Changes early, late twenties and didn’t, we didn’t have kids to apply. Yeah. So that’s added or you just have time and perspective in the scheme of things and the realization of what changes on the landscape of drawing good tags in the west and making the most of hunting opportunities. And each year, I think as we’ve gotten a little bit older, as we’ve aged, we’ve probably are be, become a little bit more of aware of each hunting season. Don’t, don’t just don’t just let stuff happen and, and if it does something good, doesn’t cop happen? Ah, I’ll put it off till next year, man. Like
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That’s Wyatt here, Wyatt, you can waste years and it’s not that big a deal, right? Yeah.
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Chris, you got 10 years on us, you guys.
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I don’t know about waste years though. Maybe still gotta make the best of every tag.
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Okay. Even now. I think that’s a lot like what Wyatt’s talked about and Wyatt, you can expound upon this a little bit, is your, hey, you’re talking to a little bit different segment, a little younger segment, but I’ve been impressed about your maturity and thought process of selling your time. You know, you obviously guided in your prior life and still do a little bit, but you’re very keen, cognizant of the time you have left.
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Yeah, exactly. I mean, you only have so many, so many falls I guess as you, you go through it and you never know, I guess what could happen, you know, we get guys all the time having no knee, knee surgeries, kidney stones, kidney stones. I mean that was almost a season ender for Colorado
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This year. That was in the middle, that was in the middle of the hunts. Man didn’t
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Know if I was gonna be able to hunt, but we tried to make the best of that hunt. We spent a lot of time, looked at a lot of deer. But it’s nothing big as far as not wasting time. You only get so many falls. I tried to, you know, balance my personal hunts along with the hunts. I guide, you know, I’ve kind of really cut down on that, what I’m guiding anymore, just to kind of make more time for myself and you know, research here at the office as well.
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I feel like we’re saying that every issue of the magazine, I don’t know why it is, but I, I’ve feeling, I’m feeling that more and it’s part, part, part of, part of it’s, we are getting older, part of it’s our kids. I’m seeing getting older, Jason’s having, I’ve had one leave the house. Jason’s had one his leave the house meaning 18 plus, you know what I mean? And the other ones are right on their heels and it’s like sobering, like holy better set your hooks into what you got here because it’s just a sobering reality of life. And we all go through at different phases. So anyway, a lot of our application thoughts and strategies in this magazine are geared a little bit more of that philosophy in mind. Right. Wouldn’t you say Jason with like, just make, make something every year with what you got. Don’t wait for the ab only the absolute best and the perfect year of every single thing. ’cause people can overthink things sometimes. Well, and
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Then another factor to this is we’ve been in this for a long time and I’ve been in this business for 10 years and from that time till now, how much has every state changed? Like there, it’s just not even the same game anymore. Yeah. Like Colorado back then
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Almost could do completely different than could no wrong in Colorado 10 years ago. Just don’t show up.
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We were laughing at doing comp reality in here, here, whoever does this particular idea, I want some royalties, but a reality TV show on picking out a hunt out of the hat and then have a camera crew following each, each person, each contestant. It was back
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When we could get vouchers, you could just buy ’em and you know, have ’em on hand and use them or resell ’em or whatever you want back when. And we just thought, hey, let’s get four or five comparable type vouchers. You know, they weren’t gonna be high price tag, you know, we’ll call
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5 41 42 4 2 1.
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Yeah. 750 to $1,500, you know, you know, lower end, third season vouchers, 11
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To
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11 and draw ’em out literally the week before we went and everybody draws it and just go and do and come back and, and
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You wouldn’t feel like you wasted a year. You dang sure might kill it in 190 inch plus deer. Now we’re looking at it going, okay, I’m, I’m bowing out of that contest and I’m gonna go exactly where I want to go. I mean that’s right and it’s, and I say it right here in my application strategy and Adam was getting to this, is we have very extensive articles in this particular publication talking about our thoughts and strategies. And my first line is I have 15 to 20 years left where I can do whatever I want. Now I might have 30, okay, I get it. 75 year olds hunt. And we have some of those in our publication service that are just cranking and I love it. But re reality, what can I expect? You know, I expect I’m gonna have some health issues at some point and you know, especially as much monsters we drink, but 15 to 20 years left where we can do whatever we want.
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And then every year after, that’s a bonus. And so what are we gonna do? You have 15 seasons, 20 seasons, what are you gonna do? You gonna kill some big mul deer? Do you care about deer? Do you care about elk? Do you care about sheep? Adam, you’ve been cranking on sheep, of course, you know, I’ve killed my, you know, four species as well, but, and you’re cranking and, and even continuing to plan out, and we’ve had to talk these discussions. You have to plan out till 2022 now to buy a sheep hunt for quality stuff and a are you gonna be that guy or what’s important to you? What’s important to you?
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Yeah. And so yeah, our, our articles Talk a little bit about the draw stuff, obviously, which you have to look at from a short term, midterm long-term strategy. But with the emphasis, I guess more, wouldn’t you say is don’t hoard points as much go hunting guys, use your points. It’s a lot of times weather, a lot of times drought or the weather right during your hunt, if it’s a later season deer hunt or something like that can have more to do with your, the, the absolute success of your hunt and how everything lines. It can have more to do with the success of that than just, Hey, I had a 20 points and I could draw unit X and I should have an awesome hunt.
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I love to blame the weather. It had nothing to do with me. It was all the weather. Yeah, I got screwed. The weather, it was something unforeseen. Couldn’t tell, not my fault. But actually
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It is a pretty good factor. A lot of times it’s, that’s, and especially for these like Colorado for instance, it, it does play into a lot of those. But I, I guess our point is, is go hunt more often and be willing to eat tags. Be willing to, I’m not, fails a hard word to say. ’cause nobody wants to go fail when you’ve burned a decade worth of points. And, and we do go into detail and talk about there are tags that warrant your full attention. If you’re sitting at top heavy and can draw an early rifle tag in Arizona or Utah or somewhere like that, you should, you should use those wisely. You should, you should carefully try to pick that. But if you’re not, if you’re in the mid middle of the pack, man, put, put, move your chips to the table and, and pick something good. Pick a good year that lines in your schedule and go make the best of it. Point creep is only getting worse, you know, every year it’s not gonna get better. I I just, it, I don’t know anywhere that’s gonna happen.
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Kind of a boat I’m in here in Utah, you know, I’m sitting on 18 deer points right now. There’s a lot of units I could draw, but I just, you know, can’t really make up my mind with what I need to do. And so you
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Need to take Adam’s advice Yeah. And use ’em, burn them and be afraid
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To fail. Make a plan.
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Don’t be afraid to fail. Well,
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I, I, I say that and, and then I at the same,
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There’s some states that are once in lifetime opportunities. You might Colorado, you can do it often. That’s why it’s easy for us to say, go out and
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Do it. Utah deer isn’t Jason, you’ve drawn one deer tag in your life. Is that right? Yes. I’ve I’ve drawn one. Why have you drawn one?
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I’ve not drawn one mountain goats. I’m like only Utah for me. I’ve,
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I’ve yet to draw my Utah
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Deer tag too. Okay, come on.
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We’re talking limited entry. We get to hunt general seasoned deer, some of us every year in Utah, some of us every other year as you get, you know, in the, in the Ross. No,
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There’s waiting periods, there’s waiting periods on deer.
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So now it’s a five year waiting period. That’s another change coming up for Utah. But so there are, it makes you and the elk is the Elk’s a prime example in Utah. People that call that have 24 to five elk points in Utah and are wanting to know how, how to kill this three 80 bull. And you’re like, man, the ship sailed. You know, that same people that have 20 plus deer points in Colorado are like, where have you been the last 10 years? And I know sometime things happen and you get caught up and it doesn’t fit your schedule right? And then you have a hard winter and the year you want to draw and now you’re scared to use ’em in that unit. I get there’s things happen, but man points can hold you hostage and you have 20 plus deer points in Colorado and 24 to five in Utah for elk. And the best years are behind us in those two states. It’s kind of a,
00:21:17:11 –> 00:21:39:11
But now it’s like, okay, so let’s say they made a mistake and they’ve held onto ’em too long or they had other things going on in their lives. Kids, kids are going to college, whatever. They don’t have the yeah. The funds to make good on the tag. Now they’ve got ’em. Let’s say they’ve got ’em, our strategy would be go ahead and use ’em. Like go ahead and use ’em. Like is Utah Elk gonna get better in the next 10 years? No.
00:21:39:21 –> 00:22:30:22
So go ahead and use them. And I think that’s the same thing we’re talking about with Colorado. Although I’ve had good friends and, and of course people were hit me up in reference the last podcast we did with 17 plus points and, and, and it’s stressful sending clients, friends, whoever being the consultant that tells them to use ’em. It’s, it is stressful and we take it personal and I think that’s a quality of ours here at Epic Outdoors. We take it personal, we want you to succeed. But we’re also a fan of using points and being out in the field. The more often you’re in the field, the more chance you have at killing something special. And so I guess part of my point is, is you got these points, jump in and use them and, and maybe be realistic with your expectations if you have to kill ’em. If you don’t have to kill, go for the goal. Go for a 380 inch bull. However, most years in Utah, there’s three of them, four of ’em
00:22:31:08 –> 00:22:31:25
Kill. Yeah.
00:22:32:09 –> 00:22:37:00
You know, and so just understand what you’re really asking for. Yeah. I guess is our point. Kind
00:22:37:00 –> 00:23:12:19
Of like Colorado elk, you could lump that into the same category. 25 points for elk in Colorado might kill you, might kill you three 40 or 50 bull. Why? I mean, you should be happy with that. It, it’s all relative and stuff changes from the time you start applying to this time. You can draw what you want. That’s right. Maybe a complete different outlook on what you can get. So control what you can control. If you’re in more of no man’s land, I guess put go hunting. Yeah. Use your points. Go hunt more often. You might do a lot better off hunting something three times than than once every 25 years. So,
00:23:12:23 –> 00:23:23:12
So that kind of does a wrap up on our personal application strategies. Adam and I put kind of throw it out there for you. You can read about it. I go state by state. I think you went species more, more
00:23:23:12 –> 00:23:23:16
Just
00:23:23:23 –> 00:23:45:08
Philosophy man. Yeah, I really, I remember, yeah. More of a philosophy on Adam’s article and, and it was awesome. Of course it’s from our perspective, 10, 10 or 15 years from now, your our perspectives will be interesting. You know, hunt everything you can. Don’t ever come home. You know you’re gonna die soon. Yeah. Then we jumped into an article that Wyatt helped us. Right? Go ahead.
00:23:45:12 –> 00:24:13:05
Yeah, so we put in the 2020 the state auction raffles and special tags we go through, you know, each state and what they have for their raffle or auction tags, you know, kind of extra chances at drawing tags. In some states there’s actually, you know, better odds than the state drawings to, to play the raffle game. Walk through, you know, deadlines of the auctions when, when you’ll expect to see these, these tags sell links to the websites to find, you know, more information on these tags as well.
00:24:14:04 –> 00:24:58:11
Got it on. It’s just another opportunity. We’re not talking to everybody here, but there’s enough pages in this publication. We can definitely cover these things if you’re in the, in the boat to purchase a tag. These are conservation tags. They’re generally tax deductible and we talk about that within that article. Not every tag’s listed, there’s landowner tags out there that you can buy. We’re not talking about those. These are generally conservation tags through banquets. The big banquets obviously will be at the expo here in Utah. We’re going to be have a booth out at Wild Sheep. There’ll be tags of that we published about those. That’ll be sold at these banquets. But then there’s also local banquets and different things. Mul, deer, elk, this publication there at Epic Outdoors. We’d like to kind of cover the wolf hunting. Generally speaking, everybody’s looking for something to do.
00:24:58:18 –> 00:25:34:04
Either you’re in Mexico hunting, wolves, predators, maybe even thinking about black bear Turkey coming up here in the spring. So there’s things out there that you can do. People get cabin fever. We kind of covered the Idaho Wolf, Wyoming and Montana and you know, just kind of covered the basic cost of it, how to do it. Some of the basic information. We’ve done that of course. Way more excited when it first came out. Adam and I went up and did a smash and grab on some, on some wolves up there and it was awesome. Great opportunity. And we might even be going back. I mean its time.
00:25:34:04 –> 00:25:49:04
It should. Yeah, it’s, it’s definitely something to do. Come late winter when we’re here in the office and need a break, go up for a few days if the weather hits, usually we try to time it on the snow so you can at least try to find some kind of sign or tracks that know you’re in the right zip code.
00:25:49:08 –> 00:25:56:04
And on that wolf hunting note, Devin here at the office, he has some great outfitters too. If you’re looking to book a hunt and go give him a call. That’s right.
00:25:56:07 –> 00:26:30:24
That’s right. Whether it be Canada or here in the Lord 48, he’s got outfitters for you if you’re interested in doing that. Something this winter along with, you know, another thing in the winter is lion hunts. Mountain lion hunts very popular this time of year. You don’t need to have drawn a tag somewhere. If you’ve got time in your schedule, sometime January, February, March, even sometimes into April, give us a call depending on whatever state you’re interested in or your method, how you wanna hunt ’em. If you want hunt ’em off of mules on dry ground, you can got stuff for that if you wanna hunt ’em in the more traditional sense in the snow and the, the Rocky Mountain country got options for you there as well.
00:26:31:03 –> 00:27:17:02
As far as our license, application service, right. Before we jump into the states that we cover in this January magazine, you know, I’ll put a little plug in on the license app service. We do have a, a thing going where if you are a current license application client of ours, meaning current for 2020, you sign up today or tomorrow will be the 30th 31st, you know, and do it prior to January 1st. Then you’ll be entered in to win one of our M O A rifles. And so anyway, we’re giving away an a cent rifle. It’s a true thousand yard mountain type rifle chambered in a six five P R C or a 300 or a 28 nozzle. So pretty awesome. We’re working with moa rifles.com on that and we’ve actually are writing the check for it. So it’s not something that was gifted to us.
00:27:17:02 –> 00:27:53:29
It’s it’s legit rifle that we’ve purchased here at Epic Outdoors for this. So you can either renew current guys that are out there. If you renew by, I don’t know, I wanna say midnight, but midnight would probably be technically first let’s call it 1159 Mountain Standard Time on the 31st of December then, then you’ll be entered in for that rifle. Or if you become a new member by then just if you drop in, you know, a new member of our license application service, you can drop us an email, we can go from there. [email protected] will get to us.
00:27:54:05 –> 00:28:04:11
Yeah. Another thing honor for our current license app members, if you refer a member to our new, a new member to our license app, you will get an entry into that Mule deer hunt guided by us in Nevada. Yeah.
00:28:04:11 –> 00:29:03:26
Yeah. So if you refer a either a regular magazine member or a license application service client, then you’ll be entered to win for that. So anyway, we jump right into Arizona, we cover Arizona, elk and antelope in this particular issue. Those application deadlines are due first be February 11th. Pretty awesome. A lot of opportunities there. Super exciting with Arizona ton of moisture last year. Incredible bulls killed. Okay. Antelope for, for the state. Still some big bucks taken for anybody’s standards for the most part. But however, Arizona being the trophy state that it is, you know, some of the upper end outfitters have seen better years. Of course there’s a lot of theories that go along with that. Good moisture means they feed on less hearty feed and and whatnot where dry years they feed on more substantial feed, you kind of change their diet a little bit and even though you know a little bit tougher living in drought years, they grow better horns. And so I don’t know, just kind of a theory on that.
00:29:04:25 –> 00:29:44:18
Yeah. This magazine’s covered though with giant bull pitchers, whether it be the stories you talked about Clint’s bull on the cover or just the photos throughout the Arizona section. Just big bull after Big Bull. A couple other stories in there. Paul Berman has a story of a 400 and what, six or six inch. So inch basically six point a couple small extras but just a giant archery bull in there. A couple others. Just tanks and Arizona. I mean it was, you know, it’s, it it like New Mexico when you get a we a wet winter and spring, which it sure had it’s gonna produce and it sure produced this last year and
00:29:44:20 –> 00:29:47:02
We, it we’re just covered up in moisture right now. Yeah.
00:29:47:03 –> 00:29:48:23
It’s off to a great start right now. Oh,
00:29:48:26 –> 00:29:57:24
Just unbelievable. Two years back to back. And sometimes people say the second year of wet after the drought is the best year. So getting
00:29:57:24 –> 00:30:01:23
A lot of late hunters calling in saying they couldn’t even get around elkine ’cause there’s so much snow down there.
00:30:01:28 –> 00:30:04:01
A lot of bulls saved from that. Even people point guard.
00:30:04:04 –> 00:30:04:14
Guard.
00:30:04:19 –> 00:30:54:05
Yeah. Even the locals point guard. Point guard. Well then they, those tags may or may not have time to have been reissued or who would want ’em even if they were, so your, your kill rates are down, your actual tag distribution rate was down compared to what they, the tag quotas were. And so some of those will come into effect on bulls that made it, that are in another year older or otherwise would be dead on the ground or in somebody’s freezer. So we talked about some of that. Of course we have the write-ups, we go through the unit by units. You know, the archery hunt being September 11th through the 24th is an awesome timeframe. If, if you’re out there, you’re an archery hunter, we definitely suggest doing the archery hunt. However, those early muzzles and early rifles, you know, September 25th to October 1st is a great timeframe as well. Those, those units and hunts in particular are just extremely tough to draw. Very tough.
00:30:55:01 –> 00:31:48:26
Talk about the late hunts for elk. That’s probably would factor into what we talked about a bit ago in terms of if you’re a no man’s land and you’re e everybody dreams of drawn an elite elk tag in Arizona. If you’re not a bow hunter and you just put in for early rifles every year just because that’s what you dream for, you’re really putting in for it. It’s hard to say it can’t happen. ’cause like we talked about, it happened to Clint, but having said that, you might consider these late rifle tags at some point as your avenue to pull a tag because that’s the reality of it. A lot of people get hung up, maybe treat Arizona early rifle and muzzle orders a lot like Utah. But Utah has ’em on every single unit and, but they don’t have a lot of tags. So, but collectively they have a lot more tags in Utah on the early rifles than Arizona does. ’cause Arizona only has, you know, a portion of, of their units, you know,
00:31:49:12 –> 00:31:50:16
Percentage wise. Very,
00:31:50:25 –> 00:32:35:11
That’s right. So you don’t, you don’t draw very many people every year. So these, these hunts are, for the most part, all of them are no, end of November, early December, November 27th to December 3rd, you know, Thanksgiving time are just after and it’s bulls are broke up. They’re scattered on winter ranges. But man, there were some great bulls that came out of Arizona this last year in a great mo moisture year, antler year. They produced some really good bulls on the late hunts. I was really impressed with some of the better late, late bulls that we saw in some of the better units. And so they don’t take, they, they still take a, a fair number of points. I mean you look at 23 and some of these better units, it’s not like jump James, you’re still burning 17 points to get attacked.
00:32:36:04 –> 00:32:44:00
And that did jump, like that one in particular did jump because the outfitters are projecting the great atler growth and they have a few specific clients. Well,
00:32:44:01 –> 00:32:50:26
And they, and a lot of people I think point guard the year before, you know what I mean? And so the people that drew the year before just drew again. That’s
00:32:50:26 –> 00:32:57:20
Right. And so yeah, you end up with like for example, the number of non-resident tags be six as far as the bonus point drop. That’s
00:32:57:20 –> 00:32:58:22
Not very many. That’s why
00:32:59:10 –> 00:33:01:13
You can jump ’em with a matter of five hours.
00:33:01:13 –> 00:33:43:26
That’s right. And that unit doesn’t have a lot of tags compared to others. But it’s been traditionally one of the better late hunts because it does have a late archery hunt that has, you know, a lot of tags as well and takes a lot of that later season hunting pressure that they allocate ’em to them. Where other units have, you know, three or 400 tags, you know, like units one or 27 or units like that that you might get, you know, 40 non-resident tags, 20 going to the max point and you can, you can draw with, you know, 11, 12 points on some of those units. That’s right. And, and which is a far cry from 23 or four points today. And something you’ll never really catch if you, if you’re you know, four or five points behind, you may never catch it.
00:33:43:28 –> 00:34:38:00
That’s why Yeah. We talk a lot about, you know, kind of the odd thing like go archery if you, if you can hunt with a bow, go go archery, go late rifle. You know, we, we do have a lot of clients that want the premier hunt no matter what. And I’ve got a plan, I’m buying a tag somewhere. I’m buying a hunt up in northern Utah, whatever the case is. Okay, great. I get it. Go for the gold, go for the absolute cover shot type hunt. But you can still kill quality animals. And some of these in Adam we’ve talked about even off the wall units, let’s talk five Bs the Yeah. You know, forays, things like that that can produce big bulls. Yeah. In the magazine we’ve gotta basically be very realistic in in what we print, you know, as far as what to expect. And that’s true. Those are, we hold by those statements. However, just because a unit may max out what we’re talking about, generally on average three 20 bulls doesn’t mean they won’t produce a three 50 bull.
00:34:38:04 –> 00:34:38:20
That’s right.
00:34:39:05 –> 00:35:25:07
So jump in there, utilize your points, go often, things like that. We’re huge fan of, of course they do point guards, $5 additional per species. You gotta develop your online portal account, you know, and if you do that and then you apply using the same email that matches your portal, those two programs basically will talk to each other and will allow you to purchase point guard for anything that you apply for antelope’s gonna be awesome. Very, very limited opportunities. It’s like buying, drawing a sheep tag antelope in Arizona, very, very tightly managed. And as we believe is a good program as well for producing quality bucks. You kind of just go when you can go, you can’t really bank on those. It’s taken 20 plus years in a lot of units. Yeah,
00:35:26:07 –> 00:35:36:26
Yeah. Which is crazy. I mean the maximum point that you saw that we had a table in there with the number of applicants with each point level, there’s people with 30 yeah, 30 antelope points in Arizona. Yeah.
00:35:37:04 –> 00:35:37:25
People meaning
00:35:37:29 –> 00:35:38:28
2, 2, 2.
00:35:39:10 –> 00:35:49:00
But, but there are people with 29, 28, 27, 26 and cranks down into 254 applicants total with 25 points. I’m just saying this is
00:35:49:00 –> 00:36:05:05
Not your tradi traditional antelope state like Saint Wyoming. No you’re not, you’re not burning, I mean this is, you said it best, it’s somewhat like sheep. There’s more collective tags for antelope in the state than there are sheep tags, but not many more. And and they’re they’re just about as tough to draw.
00:36:05:20 –> 00:36:10:24
Yeah. But relatively cheap opportunity. You’re buying your $160 license, you might as well throw your name in the hat for this.
00:36:10:26 –> 00:36:39:08
That’s right. And you’re doing a one time a year, one 60 for example, let’s call it a sunk cost from business perspective. I mean, and in reality applying is is business of course we don’t have a lot of inflows except for bone. But you know, as far as you know, you’re paying this $160, well you’re gonna end up, you know, applying for deer, applying for sheep, bison, maybe elk antelope. And so, you know, the additional fee per species is so minimal. Like you said, 15
00:36:39:08 –> 00:36:39:17
Bucks,
00:36:39:29 –> 00:36:40:26
You have your name in the hat,
00:36:41:15 –> 00:36:44:23
So That’s right. Anyway, lots of opportunities there in Arizona.
00:36:45:15 –> 00:36:45:22
Be
00:36:45:25 –> 00:36:48:04
Creative, be willing to, you know, accept less than the perfect
00:36:48:17 –> 00:36:56:08
Any note where the changes Jason is in in whole didn’t seem like a lot. The paper thing was kind of the main thing that that kind of,
00:36:56:11 –> 00:36:57:26
Yeah, they’re done with that gone
00:36:57:26 –> 00:36:59:01
Away with. But I don’t don’t
00:36:59:01 –> 00:37:59:18
Think they just barely did that with this last draw where you apply for turkeys and things and of course it’ll, it’ll morph over into these other draws. But yeah, for the most part, you know, there’s that and then they flip flop the units like yeah. You know, nine one and 27 they swap from those early rifles to early muzzles and things depending on the year, they do offer kind of a weird, you know, where they’ll have a, a super early hunt for muzzle or rifle happens to be, you know, muzzle this year and five B south and that’s earlier than normal. And then they make the archery after that. And so kind of like this year the the exciting news is you’re gonna have a gun hunter, let’s call it a gun hunter. ’cause you, you know, with muzzle you can use scopes and lines, all of that. But you can have a gun hunter prior to the archery. It’s rare to do that. But Arizona does do that. But I kinda like it because the archery is a little bit later and I think it’s better. I think that later hunt in the five Bs for archers will be a better season. Yeah.
00:37:59:19 –> 00:38:00:05
And I don’t
00:38:00:14 –> 00:38:01:07
My opinion the
00:38:01:11 –> 00:38:22:01
11th of of September to the 24th, it’s a good solid season. It is. It’s two weeks long. It is slightly earlier on the opener probably than you would, than you would prefer. But what you’re saying is those units might be something you consider because you get a hunt seven days later. You’re sitting,
00:38:22:01 –> 00:38:25:16
You’re sitting at September 18th October 1st. I just feel like that’s
00:38:25:16 –> 00:38:26:25
More prep. Oh I would more prep
00:38:27:06 –> 00:38:28:11
Absolutely more beta. Yeah. You know
00:38:28:11 –> 00:38:31:17
What I’m saying? We saw that last year in three C. Yeah. That
00:38:32:09 –> 00:38:34:00
In fact that Berman bull. Okay.
00:38:34:01 –> 00:38:35:02
That’s the reason it was.
00:38:35:14 –> 00:39:03:23
Yeah. And it was toward the end of the archery on the, and it happened to be late ’cause there was that early hunt. That’s right. That’s exactly right. So anyway, and then, and yeah, so you’ll see that muzz or season for five B South is September 11th to the 17th and yeah, it’s only 25 tags, but for patrolling purposes and whatnot, uniformity both fe b south fe B north, we’ll have the later archery just for uniformity and you know, patrolling purposes on there
00:39:04:05 –> 00:40:27:25
Should be, I mean, stuff could always change, but, but the patterns we continually keep getting it, it’s shaping up to be another good year for, for moisture and antler growth wise. I don’t know if the amount of rain and snowfall that they’re having in some of these units already, how it could be terrible even if it’s shut off right now. I think it’s gonna be solid. So definitely we feel it’s a must apply for a state. If you can swallow the, the SSP cost, like Jason talked about 160 bucks to buy a license in Arizona and then, you know, then you’re doing business at $15 per, per species. But you don’t have to pay for the tag fees unless you draw. So anyway, wanna give a shout out real quick to one of our sponsors at phone scope. Great piece of equipment that none of us leave home without whether we’re scouting, whether we’re hunting, no matter what we’re doing, if you’re, if you’re holding your phone or your, or your camera up to your scope, those days should be long gone. The vinyl scoping system that phone scope makes is awesome. Something for every make and model of phone and optic that you have, check ’em [email protected]. P h o N e s k O p e.com. They’re lightweight, you know, very easy to use, you know, like I said, you can use ’em, have ’em for anos, for your fifteens, for your spotters, for your B T X, whatever. They make something for everybody. So check ’em out, appreciate their support with us here at Epic Outdoors.
00:40:28:29 –> 00:40:55:17
It’s awesome. We’re actually getting our footage ready to, you know, to go to the expo and do different things up here that will be up here in northern Utah. And Chris, you’re cranking through a lot of our phone scope footage, basically all taken with phone scope. We’re not, you can’t get close enough. Well, Chris can, but we can’t get close enough to get good footage with a, with a regular awesome video camera. So we’re using our phones. Yeah, it’s changed the game and these, these new
00:40:55:17 –> 00:41:00:10
Phones, the the footage is, is great. So yeah, they’re awesome. Awesome.
00:41:00:10 –> 00:41:16:29
It’s awesome. So anyway, and of course we use the, some of these live clips in our, in your stories and whatnot that are featured in the Epic Outdoors magazine. So anyway, as you submit stories, you might submit some of that footage as well. It brings us to Wyoming. Start us off Bronson.
00:41:17:13 –> 00:41:24:00
Well, I guess we’ll start off with probably the biggest change that’s probably not gonna make a lot of non-residents really happy. It’s,
00:41:24:02 –> 00:41:26:16
You mean sitting on our money for months and months
00:41:26:16 –> 00:42:23:10
And months? That’s right. Okay, go ahead. For forever. The application period has opened up in Wyoming for deer, elk, antelope, sheep, moose, goat, the 1st of January. And, but they have different closing periods. The elk coming first, which has historically always been January 31st, which is, you know, the, the case again this year except for if that falls on a weekend and it, you know, hits the next business day. Things like that with, you know, the deer and elk moving to the end of May the sheep, moose and goat, the end of February. They have moved the bison this year to the month of March. That’s a new change. But the big change, which is really gonna affect a lot of people is with the elk. You still have to apply by, by January deadline. And, but the biggest thing that’s gonna come into play on that is normally we’ve gotten our draw results by the 20th or so of February and everybody loves that about Wyoming.
00:42:23:13 –> 00:43:00:05
It’s the first elk state to open up. You can apply for it and you find out in about three weeks if you wait, you know, three, three and a half weeks what you draw, the only state you’ve missed that you’ve had to make a commitment apply for is Arizona that we just talked about, which is usually the 10th or 15th of February. That’s the only one. So if you find out you drew an elk tag right outta the gate in Wyoming, great, now you can plan around it with all the other states move on down the road. Or conversely, if you don’t draw now, you just keep being aggressive on down the, the road. That’s all changed for this year, primarily due to the fact that harvest data’s not all been in
00:43:00:20 –> 00:43:01:02
Winter
00:43:01:14 –> 00:43:43:10
And winter and all that. What normally has been happening is they’ve drawn the non-residents by the end of February, but the resident draw for deer, elk, and antelope doesn’t occur till May. They set everything final permit recommendations and everything in late April and then they run the draw in May and they draw the resident tags in May. Well, what’s happened on a few instances is if a unit has to, to cut tags, well they’ve already drawn the non-resident quota kind of somewhat based off the year before his quota back in February. And the residents end up taking the full brunt of it when they have to cut, you have to cut 50 or a hundred elk tags and you’ve already drawn the non-resident tags back in February where the, where’s the cut gonna come from
00:43:43:25 –> 00:43:44:05
Residents.
00:43:44:08 –> 00:43:55:16
Yeah. And so through that and some other of these things, like I said, harvest data, they’ve elected to push the non-resident draw date for elk back to May as well. And,
00:43:56:02 –> 00:44:03:06
But they want to keep the January 31st to keep us on the hook and to not have too much change. Yes. Everybody expects to apply in January.
00:44:03:14 –> 00:44:09:14
Wyoming wants to be, that has always liked to be that first door to open. Right. We’re junkies the first
00:44:09:14 –> 00:44:10:17
Girl out on the dance floor.
00:44:10:23 –> 00:44:26:02
That’s right. You’re ready to put in for something January 1st. You know, this year it’s January 2nd, you’re ready to put in for something. So the deadline is still the 31st, but this year results are not gonna be out until May 21st. How about that Now then
00:44:26:02 –> 00:44:27:29
You can modify and amend. Yeah. By
00:44:27:29 –> 00:44:54:29
May 8th. The the big thing that you are gonna be able to do is you’re not gonna find out in late February before you what you draw. You’re gonna have to wait till May 21st. But if you do, if something changes in your schedule, you can amend your unit, modify or withdraw your application until May 8th. That’s as good as it’s gonna be for you. And then as, as you’ve been able to do in the past, you can still do points only in the summer from July through October. So that way
00:44:54:29 –> 00:45:19:14
If people say, oh, there’s a major die off or something, which just, oh, don’t die. But, but if something changes then you could say they, you know, in theory they’re saying then you could go ahead and amend, you can pull it. You’re not gonna get your refund until they’re in the draw. You can either pull your app or you can go ahead and amend to a different unit, make your changes and adjustments pending the winter spring outcome. That’s
00:45:19:14 –> 00:45:31:18
Right. But this big change, this means you’re not gonna get your Wyoming non-residents or not gonna get your drawing results for three months later than the past. You know, it’s been in late February now, it’s gonna be the 21st of May makes it
00:45:31:18 –> 00:45:33:14
Officially the
00:45:33:23 –> 00:45:34:24
Tougher to plan for.
00:45:35:01 –> 00:45:41:00
Well, and of, and officially the longest period of time that a state will hold your money ’cause you gotta pay for it. And
00:45:41:00 –> 00:45:47:07
You could put in January 2nd, you could put in for Deere if you want. That’s right. You could do it. It’s not due till May 31st.
00:45:47:08 –> 00:45:48:17
You always could have done it till
00:45:48:21 –> 00:45:51:04
Or, or this year, June one. Technically with the yes,
00:45:51:04 –> 00:45:53:05
You always could have done it, but we just, yeah,
00:45:53:08 –> 00:46:05:16
We tell people not to, we don’t even cover deer and antelope until a later issue because we analyze the winter and then we give our full interjected thoughts and oftentimes we have an idea of what permit numbers are gonna be by late April when we go to print. But
00:46:05:17 –> 00:46:15:13
We still have to cover the elk now because they’re making supply. And you, and again, if you apply, go to apply in February, March, April, may, there is no such thing for non-residents for elk.
00:46:15:22 –> 00:46:17:24
Yep. Y yeah, you, you can’t decide. So there’s nothing
00:46:17:24 –> 00:46:18:14
To amend. You
00:46:18:14 –> 00:46:21:05
Have to apply now and amend. That’s your option.
00:46:22:01 –> 00:46:23:16
So anyway, that’s kind of a big deal.
00:46:23:16 –> 00:46:42:20
That’s the big change. That’s a, that’s a monumental change. Couple of other big changes is in the past, you’ve noticed four or five years ago, Jason, they had this online kind of tables and hunt planner feature for the application booklet. They did it for one year, then they went right back to the full Yeah. A hundred page whatever book, PDF book
00:46:42:20 –> 00:46:44:10
Non-resident application. Booklet. Booklet,
00:46:44:10 –> 00:47:38:29
That’s right. They’re going back to more or less their hunt planner format now where they’re gonna not have a page one to a hundred, here’s your non-resident application species, it’s gonna go elk. You’re gonna go there and you’re gonna have dropdowns, it’s gonna have the hunt units, the types, the seasons from last year and all that. And that’s just, that’s the way they’re going to do it. It’s not gonna be a, a reg booklet like some of these other states like Arizona, like Utah, New Mexico, still put out an application booklet and it’s in start to finish page one to a hundred, whatever Wyoming’s gonna be a little bit different. So be prepared for that. When you go online to look, you’re gonna go to that hunt planter feature. You’re gonna go to each species that you wanna hunt, you’re gonna hit the dropdown menus. We still were able to, as we prepared for this magazine, go in and we were privy to that information and printed it from a 2020 perspective.
00:47:39:03 –> 00:48:31:01
The sheep units that are open for non-residents. For instance, the moose units that were open for non-residents for instance. There’s usually no elk that aren’t, aren’t available to us that residents can put in for. But that’s, that’s another fairly big change if you’re going on there just looking to download and save or print or whatever. That’s not gonna appear like it has in the past. So keeping in mind, again, we covered in this magazine, we covered the elk like we’ve just hammered. We covered the bighorn sheep, we covered Shiru, moose, mountain goat, both of those are due by the end of February. And we covered the bison, which is now due in March, which is a new change. Primarily they’ve addressed that, that fact, they wanted to allow the current hunts that are going on to be able to finish and end and have their harvest reporting criteria met before their application opens for the next year.
00:48:31:02 –> 00:49:26:26
So they’ve moved that off one month. And the path to, that’s basically we’ve been a February 1st to 28th or 29th application period. Now that’s the month of March for, for bison. So those are species we cover there. And like we said, we, we still postpone covering the deer and antelope till the may issue of the magazine when we have a better idea in the grasp of what the winter looks like. So we can give our full take on on things there. From a sheep perspective, I know we talked about this last year. Last year, if you may remember, they added a two and a half percent online convenience fee. Of course Wyoming, when you apply, they don’t have a, a main hunting license, big per hunting license purchase like Nevada or Arizona does. But they, they make you pay your species permit fees up front, which are pretty stiff. I mean bighorn sheep, 2300 bucks, you know, mountain Goat 21, then change, you know, moose. Two grand bison,
00:49:27:14 –> 00:49:28:02
Expensive,
00:49:28:04 –> 00:49:29:14
4,400 for a bull.
00:49:30:07 –> 00:49:37:02
You’re ambitious. Gonna do up front on a credit card with two point half percent non-refundable and the mandatory point fee non-refundable
00:49:37:05 –> 00:50:09:02
For moose and sheep. For moose and sheep. That’s right. 150 a pop. You end up, it can really add up. We, I think we did the math, it was 225 or so, roughly, roughly dollars per moose. And she, you know, and all, if you’re gonna pay the app fee, the point fee plus eat the two point half percent and the, the, the big kicker is Wyoming for always, for a lot of years has been one of those, well, they give random tags, 75% go ran or in the max point pool, 25% of their moose and their sheep tags go randomly. But
00:50:09:02 –> 00:50:09:12
Having said,
00:50:09:20 –> 00:50:11:06
But when you start, start looking at the number three,
00:50:11:14 –> 00:50:12:10
Go to the preference.
00:50:12:10 –> 00:50:13:00
That’s right. It’s not,
00:50:13:02 –> 00:50:16:01
And there’s not always a random, that’s a kind of our point. That’s our point.
00:50:16:01 –> 00:50:30:02
The point you’re making last year, unit two through five are the only units that gave a a random tag. If you wanna click over to the click over to the, to the sheep and there was only one tag in each of those units. One, one random tag and that.
00:50:30:03 –> 00:50:31:11
And when there’s zero random
00:50:31:15 –> 00:50:41:18
2, 3, 4, and five one tag. So four total random sheep tags total for non-residents in Wyoming last year. 4, 4, 1 in each unit’s, 2, 3, 4, 5.
00:50:41:18 –> 00:51:01:18
And the non-refundable point. And my point is the mandatory purchase of a point that they make you do and they don’t give you your money back on, it’s all lumped into the original purchase price, so to speak. Your application fee. They don’t let you, they don’t give you a refund of that. It’s mandatory and it doesn’t even help you in the random draw. And I think that’s kind of, we’ve had a lot of questions on that as far as I’ve got
00:51:01:22 –> 00:51:03:22
Six points or eight points as it should.
00:51:04:02 –> 00:51:25:08
I keep going. I don’t really like this mandatory A upfront all the money on my credit card B, what I don’t get back. You know, is it worth it? Well no, it’s not worth it. It’s never gonna help you in the random, they’re divvying out tags, for example, unit one, three preference points, tags, zero, random. If you have, let’s say you have 15 points, let’s just throw 15 out as a random number,
00:51:25:17 –> 00:51:26:26
You’d probably never catch enough.
00:51:26:27 –> 00:51:31:25
You’ll A a, you’re not gonna catch up but B, you’re not even in the draw. Yeah, you’re not even in the draw. They
00:51:31:25 –> 00:51:43:10
Cut, they cut the quota in unit one last year from 20 to 12 total tags. And that meant that the only three non-resident tags and all three of them went in the maximum preference point draw. You have four tags. They give
00:51:43:10 –> 00:51:51:11
The points, they give the point tags first and then they’ll give a random if there happens to before. Before that’s right. Whereas in a lot of states, in most cases, you’re gonna at least get a
00:51:51:11 –> 00:52:09:18
Random, the first habitable random. Yes. That’s not, Wyoming is the case. That’s, and moose is even, even probably more discouraging if you can say that Most people have looked at Wyoming for a lot of years as a state, Hey, I wanna shares moose we used to say is a must apply for, would you say that anymore, Jason?
00:52:09:21 –> 00:52:19:22
Oh, it’s just hard. I mean, okay, moose, moose are hard to come by. So you know, you’ve basically got, you know, Utah, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. And so that’s kind of what
00:52:19:22 –> 00:52:35:04
You’re Colorado, maybe Colorado, but like yeah, there’s, yep, you want one and want a shiru and you can’t really, right. You can’t buy shiru tags very many places. Unlike, you know, you wanna shoot a Canadian moose, you don’t have to draw ’em Alaska Yukon. You just, you book a hunt and go do it.
00:52:35:22 –> 00:53:03:02
If you have to have a rocky mountain sheep, if you have to have a shi shi, of course our friends call ’em Shiraz. But just in teasing. But you know, if you have to have one then, then you know, maybe it is a sunk cost. Maybe it’s the price of doing business and being in the draw. Adam, you and I, depending on our schedules, some years I apply for sheep. Some years I don’t. And I look at it and I, it’s my gut feel, does 220 bucks sound worth the one and 200, 300, 4, 500 type drawing? It’s
00:53:03:02 –> 00:53:03:28
Been getting worse and worse. Yeah.
00:53:04:08 –> 00:53:18:07
I mean is that worth it to me? And so I look at it and I weigh it out and say, yeah, well I’d take a raffle ticket at a banquet for that, for those kind of odds or not. And that’s the way you’ve gotta look at it. Does my point ever gonna help me? I don’t even think about that. That’s just what they’re gonna charge me to apply.
00:53:18:20 –> 00:54:21:25
In the case of moose, same thing applies. You need to look at the tables and pay attention to the units that give enough tags that some tag, at least one will go in the random draw. If you don’t have, we’ll just say that 15, 16 point range or higher and have the ability to maybe swoop in. And I, and, and when I say 15 or 16, that’s on a pretty marginal unit. Ugh. Most of them are in the 18 to 21 or point range. But if you are not in that range, you probably better look at one of those handful of units. Again, we’re not talking about very many tags and we’re not talking about very many units. Most of the units up there do not give a tag in the random draw. So do not put in for unit that that does not have high enough tag numbers or historically been giving a random tag or you just lent them two grand and lost 200 bucks with zero chance to draw. And another point I think that’s worth making, we get this one a lot too, Jason, is people don’t apply for moose and sheep in the first go round. I don’t have the, my name in my card. I get a
00:54:21:25 –> 00:54:22:08
Point in the summer.
00:54:23:07 –> 00:54:29:00
Is that worth it? No, if you don’t have the point, if you, if you’re almost a draw, absolutely.
00:54:29:06 –> 00:54:29:14
Okay.
00:54:29:15 –> 00:54:32:06
Yes. If you’re not, do not waste 150 bucks. I,
00:54:32:07 –> 00:54:33:19
I changed my answer depending,
00:54:33:23 –> 00:54:45:05
Yes. Do not waste 150 bucks on the points if you’re in no man’s land, apply in the draw so you at least have a chance to draw for that 200 to 225 bucks that you’re gonna lose for a sheep or moose
00:54:45:05 –> 00:55:05:10
Application. If you have 10 or less moose and sheep points, it’s not worth it just to get a point in the summer. No, you should at least be in the draw. You should be in the draw. And Adam, I think this goes back to what you and I talk about, let’s call it the, you know, the Clint factor. He made the cover on six points in a special draw unit that you would never think you could draw one deck or was possible one
00:55:05:10 –> 00:55:05:29
Non present tag.
00:55:06:00 –> 00:56:13:17
Yeah, he beat one in thousands, whatever it was, draw type drawing on 6,000 or whatever it is. I mean he calculated and he could tell us to a, to a decimal point of, of what his odds were. But having said that, you know, somebody’s gonna draw it be in the draw. We have 15 to 20 years left, 25 years, 30 years if on lots of bonus years. If you know, God willing, having said that, be in the draw as many draws as you can be in or that you can afford to be in. That makes sense for your personal application strategy. And I think that goes to, you know, Wyatt, me, Adam, we’re constantly, you know, consulting our license application guys, developing strategies for them, putting us in their shoes. What, you know, what would I do if I were you? This is what I would recommend. And so we do that. And if you don’t like to analyze this, it does get Adam’s talking about does this, you know, have a random tag and if it does, what are the drawing odds? And by the way, what’s my non-refundable fees? We can do all this for you in every state with every species. And I think we’ve talked a lot about that. Had a lot of clients that we’ve consulted over this. So,
00:56:13:18 –> 00:57:30:10
Well, one thing that I guess if you wanna put it into perspective, the, your membership to Epic Outdoors is a hundred dollars a year. And, and I’m not saying that you should apply how I think or how Wyatt thinks or Chris or Jason ’cause everybody’s situation is a little bit different. But a hundred dollars a year for subscription to Epic outdoors. If you learned a couple of things like that, what we just got done talking about, about Wyoming sheep and moose and you weren’t really sure about how the draw worked, you just saved yourself 200 bucks. You more than doubled your worth out of the membership on a few things like that. Or when it comes time to Utah, it’s not really a secret anymore. But the whole, the, the deal of being able to buy a non-resident hunting license for $65 and it’s good for three or 65 days. So if you buy it late enough in the application period, the first year, the next year you can use it to apply as well and not have to pay purchase that. Well, if you’ve learned that little loophole, you almost paid for your membership as well that way. So this this principle in Wyoming for sheep and moose, not just buying a point in the summer blindly. If you’re gonna make the commitment to apply, apply for ’em. If you’re not, don’t and save some money.
00:57:30:15 –> 00:58:07:13
Deer, elk can antelope, of course there’s no points for goat. We’ll get to that. But while we’re on the point subject, deer, elk and antelope buy points, I, I know it’s not the best deer state in the world. I am as discriminating of a trophy deer hunter as there is. I’m buying points in Wyoming. I’m the first to say Wyoming’s terrible for trophy mulder. I’m first to say it, but it gives me options. And in the event I learned something, I learned something new. Maybe a ranch comes open or, or somebody’s, you know, comes or hears about a specific deer, whatever. Sometimes things happen. We have a lot of outfitters in Wyoming that are killing some great bucks in less than gray areas. General times including general just
00:58:07:13 –> 00:58:07:24
Generals.
00:58:07:24 –> 00:58:14:28
Yeah. I mean we got a guy that’s killing 190 to 200 inch deer. One or two every year, every other year on, on a private event.
00:58:15:01 –> 00:58:17:02
Zero tag unit. General zero, zero point.
00:58:17:14 –> 00:58:32:14
So I mean, hey, if it did take a point or two and you didn’t get one because it’s not known as a trophy deer state, you’d be a sad guy. Same thing with the antelope, same thing with the elk tags come around. I took my kid hunting by the way, how does it go from six points to two points?
00:58:33:08 –> 00:58:33:17
What,
00:58:33:26 –> 00:59:10:18
Like unit 40 for example in the special, I mean things like that happen where people analyze these odds and I guess I want to, I guess we’ll dive into that for a quick second. They do have the special license fee and the regular license fee for jail can antelope, you can analyze the drawing odds and you get a lot of flip flop. You’re not gonna pay extra. It’s an expensive tag fee. Once it’s drawn, it’s the same tag, but you know, it puts you in a separate, separate set of drawing odds, separate drawing pool so to speak, with people that are willing to pay the, the, the additional fee. And so you get guys saying, well I’m not gonna pay the expensive fee for worse drawing odds. And so you get a lot of flip flop each year. Yeah,
00:59:10:18 –> 00:59:38:10
They’ll look at the odds and say, well we didn’t pay off to pay the special last year, I’m not gonna do that. And that’s the year you should pay special. ’cause everybody’s gonna be thinking that week and flip flop, there’s 60% of the tags, like Jason said, for for only, this only applies for darl. Can antelope 60% go in the regular draw, 40% go in the special, they divide him up then in the preference and random draws. But once you draw tags, it’s the same. It’s just they charge more for the special tag. That’s the only difference.
00:59:38:11 –> 00:59:57:24
Pay to play, that’s all. It’s European hunting, here we go. So anyway, unit 40 for example, I brought that up. 20% draw with two points in the special paying the expensive tag fee, 27% was seven on the regular, on the cheap fee. I, for one thinks think it’s worth it. I I I chose it. I paid the additional for my son and he could have paid the youth fee.
00:59:57:25 –> 00:59:58:28
Yeah, it was, but
00:59:58:28 –> 01:00:04:22
Because we went in special, he had to pay not only he, he wasn’t involved in the youth fee anymore and paid the adult special,
01:00:05:07 –> 01:00:15:00
But due to him graduating high school and leaving, going out into the world and mal that, you’re like, I want to get him on an outcome this year. I want to ensure. And so you said I’ll, I’m willing to pay the extra and lucky
01:00:15:00 –> 01:00:15:06
We
01:00:15:06 –> 01:00:20:10
Did eight or 900 that year, whatever it was over the youth fee. Yeah. And get him drawn and
01:00:20:10 –> 01:00:43:14
Lucky we did. And all of a sudden I’m, I mean I’m cruising through the odds and I’m like, really? Wow, who would’ve guessed? And I think it’s just, it’s just one of those things where things flip flop back and forth and who, you know, hindsight’s 2020, we wouldn’t have predicted that. Having said that, there are times Adam, and that we can predict when there’s such a gap that gap’s gonna flip flop. And so
01:00:44:11 –> 01:00:44:19
Yeah,
01:00:44:19 –> 01:00:54:06
You’re gonna see that, you’re gonna see that gap filled. Yeah, I can, I can bring it up. I’m not hurting anybody. It’s, it’s gonna be filled on its own just by people analyzing the magazine, analyzing that, drawing ons on their website,
01:00:54:24 –> 01:01:54:02
Whatever. It’ll also have a much bigger impact on a unit with low tag numbers. So you talk a unit that has 50 or a hundred total tags, you know, some of those, you know, 80% roughly going to residents, the other 20% now getting carved off for non-residents in that special and regular. Pretty soon you split the, split the pie up really small versus a unit with like unit seven with 1500 elk tags, you know, collectively in it. Generally you look at that every year. It’s a little better in the special every year because you got a much more, much bigger pool of, of pie to split up. But yeah, analyze those closely. Try to guess or out guess, I guess out guess that’s really what you’re trying to do and if it’s worth it, pay the extra money if it’s not go in the regular draw. And also much like we talked about with the elk and the sheep or the, the moose and the sheep. There’s elk units that don’t have random draw tags either. There are some of those you start getting in those 50 tag units or
01:01:54:02 –> 01:01:58:26
Less total with 16 to 20% carved off from non resident. You need to divide a 40 60 split and then
01:01:58:26 –> 01:01:59:25
You get a couple landowners that
01:02:00:14 –> 01:02:03:16
And then give 75, 25 split. Now you’re sitting with a preference tag.
01:02:03:16 –> 01:02:31:29
Yeah. So if you see a note, a note tag and our notes filled and the random, that means for three years in a row, that means historically, unless they increase tags this year, they probably don’t plan on them giving a random tag. If you see a random, you know, you, you go to the, you know, some of these units with no tag like you know, 50, 54, a popular unit, 54 for elk, 58 for elk, no random tags for non-resident. Yeah non-resident we’re talking. So anyway, pay attention to that as well. So
01:02:32:06 –> 01:02:57:24
A lot of these elk units, I guess while we’re kind of sticking on elk for a sec, you know, anyway, they do allow, you know, in, in many cases a majority of cases, a lot of cases they allow the rifle hunters to hunt archery season with a bow. If you’re not successful, you can come back with a rifle during the rifle season within that particular unit. Some of ’em it’s unique. Most 31, 32, whatever, end up with a rifle season October 1st and you can hunt the month of September the bow next day pick up a
01:02:57:24 –> 01:03:31:14
Rifle. Yeah. Very unique. Most states, you know, you choose a archery tag and that’s what you draw and that’s what you go hunt or you draw a rifle tag and that’s what you draw and you go hunt. Not the case in the majority. We do have a list of the type nine, which are the archery only hunts for elk in Wyoming and pay attention to those. If you’re only wanting, you know, to compete with I guess archery and archery odds. It’s not always, you know, most states we think of archery odds being easier. This is one of the states, it’s not usually the case because again, you could hunt the whole month of September with a bow and some
01:03:31:20 –> 01:03:33:07
September one to the 30th at some point.
01:03:33:08 –> 01:03:39:14
Yeah. Versus late October with a rifle. Most the rifle’s not as desirable. A lot of times the archer’s harder to draw
01:03:39:21 –> 01:04:02:29
And at some point in that month there is a dark moon. Yeah. There’s a lot of these states, you know, septe September 11th through the 24th is that dark moon, full moon, what I mean, there’s a lot that comes into play September 1st, the 30th. There’s gonna be some good bugling activity sometime in that month. That’s right. And so it’s awesome. You get to hunt 30 days, where else can you do that? Very rare to be able to have a 30 day season. That’s right. Kind of cool.
01:04:03:11 –> 01:04:13:05
Very diverse. Wyoming. The best way to put it is there’s something for everybody. There’s wilderness, back country, horseback, grizzly infested hunts for people that like to,
01:04:13:06 –> 01:04:13:14
They
01:04:13:14 –> 01:04:14:16
Love it. They like to
01:04:14:19 –> 01:04:15:29
Clamber to the top of a tree
01:04:16:28 –> 01:04:21:17
And they like to sleep with their rifle in their lap at night. There’s people, there’s some people that probably
01:04:21:17 –> 01:04:28:22
Like to, well they thrive on, I had a guy says, yeah, me and my son, we want to go, we’re good with horses and we’re good with grizzlies. And I’m like, okay,
01:04:28:25 –> 01:04:30:14
What does that look like? What does that mean?
01:04:30:16 –> 01:04:56:16
I’m not really good with grizzlies and I’m, I don’t love horses, although I’ll do it. And, but you know, there’s guys that are willing to do it and hey, that means something to us. You know what’s interesting Adam? ’em when the, when the wolves really got cranking and of course grizzlies forever, but wolves really got cranking in Wyoming. We even, we saw such a dip. I think the, I think the elk were nineties. They’ve learned to live with them and, and also there’s been, there’s been some, some
01:04:56:16 –> 01:04:57:07
Harvest. Harvest
01:04:57:17 –> 01:05:07:11
On wolves and kept at bay so to speak. And we’ve seen an increase in numbers and quality. And I’m talking an average overall. Yeah, the last five years. Yeah, the last three years.
01:05:07:21 –> 01:05:45:16
Like gradual resurgence. If you can be as bold to say that in some of these park areas, back country units that are border in the park, the 50 fives and sixes and 50 ones and 50 nines and all those. Yep, exactly. You’re right. And but they have a lot, the extremes of elk hunting are, are endless. You’ve got those extremes. The backcountry, wilderness, horseback. Keeping in mind if you hunt or non-resident as a, as a wilderness hunting wilderness, you need to hire an outfitter or have a resident of Wyoming with you. Another unique lot of Wyoming, a lot of people don’t like it. It’s just the way it is. It’s the,
01:05:45:26 –> 01:05:46:00
I
01:05:46:00 –> 01:05:53:10
Don’t like it, you know, it’s just the way it is up there. So if you don’t have a resident that can get their resident guide permit, which is easy
01:05:53:10 –> 01:05:54:02
To get, go into the
01:05:54:02 –> 01:06:33:10
Wilderness, then, then you’re gonna need to consider an outfitter to hunt wilderness. If you don’t want that, then you need to identify the units that have enough non wilderness designated wilderness to hunt on your own. But then you’ve got, again, horses, grizzlies, if you want an outfitter. There’s out, there’s a lot of units with moderate terrain throughout Wyoming with lower mountain ranges with ponderosa pine and easy stuff, you know, in the, in the central and eastern part of the states even. And there’s public lands like that as well. Having said that, if you’re a, a public land hunter that wants to come with no grizzlies and have lots of public land, no horses, there’s a lot of demand in those type of units. It’s
01:06:33:10 –> 01:06:34:07
Tough. Oh, unit seven,
01:06:34:13 –> 01:06:36:26
You know, 31, 32, 16, 19.
01:06:36:28 –> 01:07:19:05
I mean there’s a number of them. The big horns, you know, you can, I mean there’s, there’s places you can go. 1500 tags. I just can’t get over it. Unit seven, I hunted it in the nineties at ’em. You’ve hunted it recently, I mean semi recently it’s always been 1500 tags. It, I don’t know how, I don’t remember a time it wasn’t 1500 tags. Is that some funny stuff? I know it has been still producing good bulls. There’s quite a bit of private there, but there’s also enough public to do some damage. So, and, and we don’t mean to, you know, spotlight that unit. Just an example of what we’re talking about with the diverse opportunities doesn’t have to have grizzlies so diverse. There aren’t grizzlies there, there aren’t necessarily wolves. You might have an outlier here and there, I don’t know. But for the most part they
01:07:19:09 –> 01:08:00:01
Don’t exist. No, that’s, there’s something for about everybody. But, but also we try to hammer this home in the magazine as well. Wyoming is, is pro. If you’ve got max points or one off a max or something like that, okay, maybe it makes sense to hold out for that one tag or two that you’re chasing. If you’re in the middle of the pack, try to draw a tag and go to Wyoming more often. It’s a great elk state. It’s got abundant numbers. Probably best put as a, you know, 300 to three 40 type category. Bull does not mean three 50 to three 80 bulls don’t happen. They do. But even on the quote better units that we list in our magazine, you know, three 70 and 80 bulls aren’t common. You know, they’re not common anywhere, but
01:08:00:20 –> 01:08:02:11
A little bit of a tough year this last year. Yeah,
01:08:02:11 –> 01:08:16:12
It was a little bit of a tougher year. So use Wyoming to supplement your elk hunting plans. If you don’t have max point apply go more often than, than than waiting 15 to 20 years for a tag. Again, unless you already have max, max point or one off that. So
01:08:16:20 –> 01:09:11:13
You can buy your way in. Like Wyatt talked about with the, the article in the earlier part of the publication, they do have governor tag commissioner tags, like 56 commissioner tags I think, and they go at public auction and that allows you like a commissioner tag. You can choose a unit and you know, hunt during that respective season within that unit. And so anyway, there’s ways to get around that. But basically these points, I guess to put it mildly, these points have value and everybody, everybody should be applying for deer, elk, and antelope in the state of Wyoming. Sheep and moose. A little bit different story. However it may fit your budget may be what you need to do. And, and of course we do it at times too. They also, we did cover the goats and bison as well. You can cover that. You can see that in the magazine. There is opportunity there no points associated there. Truly a random draw like New Mexico or like Idaho. It’s just truly a random draw each year.
01:09:11:23 –> 01:09:53:14
And the drawing odds for bison’s the best state of all the western states. And it’s partially due to the fact that they make you front the tag fee 4,400 plus bucks to, to apply for a bull tag. Cow tags are about half that. But the best odds of any western state for free ranging bison, you know, you’re hunting bison that adjacent to or as they migrate out of Yellowstone Teton National Parks down north of Jackson. That’s where you’re right, that’s where you’re hunting sometime dealing with cold, cold, flat out m miserable, miserable fricking conditions at at times. But where can you hunt a free ranging, you know, bison in, in the us not very many states that allow you to do that. Wyoming’s one of them if you can stand to afford that.
01:09:54:07 –> 01:10:01:22
Here’s a question, Wyatt, since you’re an official score, bison and a three standard wire fence, is that high fence or low fence or free range or not?
01:10:03:04 –> 01:10:04:26
Where did that come from? Montana.
01:10:05:01 –> 01:10:15:24
They have ’em all broke out into a, you know, BC officially accepted herds. Do they? They’re very few of those and they’re not gonna accept, you know, the, the farm raised ones right out there. You know, Kansas,
01:10:16:04 –> 01:10:17:13
Nebraska rocket, the cattle farm.
01:10:17:15 –> 01:10:17:24
Yeah,
01:10:17:24 –> 01:10:44:13
Exactly. Yeah. I don’t know. Just thought of that. That brings us to outdoor edge knives. We appreciate their support. We great partner of ours, the replaceable blade knives. We just barely killed a desert sheep with my niece Nevada just a few days ago. And of course we were cranking with the outdoor edge knives. It was awesome. We all had ’em. I can’t, I can’t believe it’s like they’ve taken over the world, the freaking knife world. It’s unbelievable.
01:10:44:13 –> 01:10:48:02
If you get five or six of those hacking up a desert sheep, you better get outta the way.
01:10:48:16 –> 01:11:09:10
’cause especially with the hyenas, my brother-in-laws. Geez. That’s right. Anyway, but the nice thing is, is everybody’s the new blades fit anybody’s knife and anyway, it’s kind of, kind of fun. But they have done a great job at infiltrating the hunting industry, make a great product, very affordable. Of course we’re giving away the knives with, with the ticket
01:11:09:18 –> 01:11:10:23
Purchases and stuff right
01:11:10:23 –> 01:11:34:23
Now. Yeah. Different things you, we are offering here at Epic Outdoors as far as the hunt giveaways and the package there. So anyway, if you purchase $200 package that’s right. You’ll get a knife from us with our logo engraved on it. It’s pretty awesome. Anyway, we appreciate Outdoor Edge. What a, what a great company and of course make a great product and enough of a great product that we want ’em in all of our members’ hands and we’re giving ’em away. So
01:11:35:11 –> 01:12:25:05
One more shout out we’d like to do also on this podcast is one of our sponsors, St. James Sporting Properties, Blaine St. James. He’s been a friend and fellow hunter of, we’ve known for years, Jason and I based outta Colorado, but he’s licensed in Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, New Mexico, Oregon, Texas, Utah and Wyoming as a real estate broker for sporting properties. These are farm and ranches for recreational type purposes. Whether you’re looking to buy a piece of property, whether you got a piece of property you think you may wanna sell, give Blaine or his crew a call 9 7 0 5 9 6 6 0 8 9 or sj sporting properties.com. Great crew, if you’re looking to buy or sell some kind of western sporting or recreational property,
01:12:25:19 –> 01:13:37:06
We are gonna have some, some more podcasts with invited guests to change things up a little bit. A lot of times we, you know, when we talk about the publication online offers some of the different things we’re offering our partners, of course that’s AB and I and and Wyatt Dev and Chris and John and and whatnot here in the office. We will be mixing it up. We’re back in the sea, back in the saddle, so to speak, here at our desks and cranking through. I have a lot of office work to do and we’ll also bring on some great guests, talk about their seasons strategies and different things like that. So be watching for that. The next publication we’re working on, it’s gonna cover Oregon, New Mexico, Utah. We are cranking hard here at Epic Outdoors. We appreciate all your support out there, all the listeners, both outfitters as well as clients. Couldn’t do it without you guys. We, we appreciate you and, and your loyalty. We’re cranking. It’s awesome. Lots of exciting things for 2020. Can’t tell you how excited we are. You know, again, I talked about it, you know, in this last publication, but I, I hit Bronson and I just said, man, I’m so ready for this year to end. And I lay awake at night thinking about next year.
01:13:37:06 –> 01:13:39:02
And that was about November 10th last
01:13:39:02 –> 01:13:39:17
Year. Yeah.
01:13:40:11 –> 01:13:40:25
And it ended
01:13:41:06 –> 01:13:42:12
Like two days ago. That’s
01:13:42:12 –> 01:13:43:05
Right. That’s
01:13:43:05 –> 01:13:44:11
Right. Hey, yours is
01:13:44:27 –> 01:13:50:05
Still going. We’re all actually, we’re all about in a thousand right now. You know, we’re going into, well I guess,
01:13:51:15 –> 01:13:51:24
Yeah,
01:13:51:27 –> 01:14:15:00
It’s sports been tags, but we don’t count those. It’s for Utah, but we’re all a hundred percent until we’re from get the first rejection notice. So full of optimism around here first of the year brings that We’re excited. We love doing the research. We love writing about what we love. And encourage you to become a member of Epic Outdoors, epic outdoors.com. Or you can give us a call at the office, (435) 263-0777.
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