EP 183: Escape from a Frigid Alaskan River

I take a step forward, and I just go down. You know, you didn't just fall down. Like, now you're floating down the river. And I just remember vividly thinking, I am not going out this way. I remember, and it was a fight. Anything to do with Western Big Game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson at the mic, coming at you from Southern Easton. Only freaking day in the last, what, how long? I don't know, since we did the last podcast. Like four hours since we were here the last week. When was that? A week? Ten days ago. Whatever. Anyway, and we've done hunts since then. Bronson, you smashed a buck. Yeah, smashed and grabbed. I followed your advice. Smashed it and went over and grabbed it. Yep, that's right. Took care of it myself, packed up the truck myself, and grabbed it. One trip, whole, a Colorado body. How was it? It was not very good, but lucky it was only probably a half mile. It wasn't that big a deal. Half mile up hills both ways. No, it wasn't. It was just, still you gotta stop, and you have a hard time standing up with a whole deer in your pack. Cape, head, gun.

I can just picture, like, did you even cut the hooves off? I can just picture four hooves hanging on top of your pack. I've always looked at those, I don't know. I don't know why people pack out. I see them on elk, that's 10 pounds on elk. I know. A lower foot? I know. I mean, somebody's gonna weigh it for me and tell me I'm off, but it's at least five. I know. It's a waste of weight. Don't pack up. Somebody weigh them. Somebody weigh them. Tell me what you eat on those. Anyway, I went down and did an archery, late archery elk in Arizona. Okay. Never hunt elk in November with a bow. In thick country. In thick, thick country. It was actually pretty darn good. I learned a ton. I mean, coos deer. Kind of got coos deer on the brain. I don't know. Coos, coos day. Coos deer. No. Wait, that's going to take a dream.

It was kind of funny, because there was a guy sitting on water that had javelina and turkeys coming. Anyway. It's just funny. Last year, we gave Carter a hard time about antelope, only because he was going to burn his points. He does not love antelope, but we rode it pretty hard. Now, it's going to be, we're going to tease him about having to burn javelina points in Arizona. Hey, Chris, Chris, and when we were there, the roads were closed. These guys happened to make it okay, and you had roads that were open to you. We didn't. They were all closed from fire. Yeah. Colorado was nuts. Tight season. Tight season. It was nuts in north central Colorado with all the fires this year. Well, think about it. Mid-November. Mid-November, it was closed. That's right. Crazy. I mean, it was going into third season, remember, and around Estes Park. They had a snowstorm and they still had it closed.

Unit 18 and Estes and all these other places. Yeah. Crazy, lots of crazy stuff. So, anyway, we've been, who knows where this podcast is going to go? We've been all over the place, and so this podcast might be a little bit of that, because we get that way when we get back together. We try to catch up on seven to ten days. So much happened. People hit you on Instagram or emails and texts, and I'm getting updates, you're getting updates. Chris, you're getting up. Everybody's just, the information highway is crazy right now with what happened in the 2020 season. A lot of which what happened is not so great. Yeah. So, anyway. It's been pretty tough in general. But, but we're also thinking about next year's hunting schedule. It's all I can think about it. Five, six, eight hours a day. Jenna's like, hey, you know, you need to rein it in a bit. And when she says that, and she's being very nice.

I got a great wife, but she's like, come on. Things have gone, you know, and I agree, I can't live like this anymore. I don't know, I've been home maybe five days and three or four months. It's been rough. I agree. I've made three trips to Colorado. I took my boy over there twice. That turned out good. Was only supposed to go once because, you know, he got basketball, and then thanks to COVID, the only good thing that's come from COVID is they postponed basketball practice for two weeks and canceled in Utah. Allowed you to hunt. Yeah, so we could go back hunting. Well, and that's what's funny. These coaches, they're ornery. Like, if you miss a practice... Oh, you don't even think about it. You don't even think about missing. So, you give up hunting. You give up hunting for that. He's in the younger years of high school, you know, freshman, sophomore, but it doesn't matter.

You that have kids at that age, you realize it's not...it's not. You miss, and it was tryouts week. They take it out on the kids, yeah. So, it was like, you know, brutal training. You know, they run you to death anyway, Because they want to weed out people too. Anyway, so, yeah. So, he wasn't able to go. Then, COVID comes, they postpone everything, and you're like, you're almost home, two monsters deep, three monsters deep. What was it? I don't know. Too many. And your wife's like, you should turn around, and you're like, I can't. I can't make it back. No. Been up since four o'clock, and it was like 10 o'clock at night. Now, I'm almost back to Utah, and our government made his proclamation to the world.

You know? Yeah. What did he say? Basically said, no go, mask up. Mask up? I called my kids, I was teasing them a little. And don't anybody get too mad at me, there's a lot of people serious about COVID out there. But I was like, hey Ashley, you need to mask up and I really think you should go to bed wearing a mask. And I mean, she just busted out. She didn't even take you. She can't even take you. You know you're so far from serious. Justin, you need to mask up, and I'm thinking when you go to bed tonight, you put that mask on. What do you think? I mean, they don't even know what to say. So, lots going on. We're trying to plan for next year, and there's 14,000 things going on. We're going to hunt sheep and elk steer. You got in-laws with elk tags. In-laws and outlaws. We got friends with sheep tags and a couple clients. It's just the last two weeks.

There are weeks of smashing and grabbing, and I don't think there's going to be a lot of smashing and grabbing. This is going to be grind, ground, and pound. Ground, and pound. Okay, okay. I don't know if that. I grind it. Whatever. We got to come up with something. Anyway, but I know this, that I sometimes, you know, in our stage in life, it's hard, Adam, when we're younger, let's call it mid-twenties, you know, you're newlywed, you got kids, kids on the ground, You know, 1,400 diapers every which way. You've got a few tags, and you're trying to make good on a few tags. You get a little bit older. You know, it's hard for us to say no to the opportunities that come on the desk. I mean, we've got opportunity after opportunity coming across the desk, and you're like... Well, and we're getting our kids, and then their teenage years, you only got them for so long.

Before then, they start going to college, and they get married on their own. So, you're just trying to do stuff for you, do stuff with them, and all of it's good. It's just, man, it comes at a price. And that's aging three times faster than you should. And hunting is supposed to be amazing and fun and enjoyable. Yeah, and you come home and your wife says, oh, they're just saying, yeah, it's gone all the time. Well, how would it be? And you're like, come with me for two weeks and I'll show you how it is. Better yet, I'll pay you if you can last two weeks. That's right. A, your kidneys are not going to withstand how much monster you're going to drink. That's right. A monster's a must. Well, it keeps you alive at times, really. All these cannonball runs through the middle of the nights. Anyway, speaking of driving, let's give Aaron a call.

Okay, so A, there's a couple things I'd like to know from Aaron. He was gonna help you on a hunt, but he has no wills. How was he gonna get there? He's had the family Tahoe. They're on several hunts this year, because this has been long documented in March. He sold his cherry truck, pre-emissions 2006 Duramax, for a minute, for a quarter of a million miles. He got some guy from Michigan. 20k, whatever. A lot. Whatever. And then he had a... And then COVID hit, and all the factories have shut down, all the used cars have gone up five to ten grand in value because it's what you can buy, and he's just... In his mind, I think he's made it through the hunts, and he's just... But not quite all through the hunts, so what are the contingency plans? Then B, he went to Alaska, had a near-death experience. I'd like to hear firsthand about that.

Quick about the truck, because I know he's sensitive about it, but we're gonna ask him. Yeah. What are you driving? The Malibu. We just wanted to check in, Aaron. We just wanted to check in. Oh boy. Everything's good. Next question. Okay, so the next question is, you were gonna go help Adam. I just want to know what you were planning on driving when you went and helped Adam. I had a rental. Rental. Making me feel guilty, you know. Hey, yeah, come out. It'd be great to have another set of eyes. And then, I'm out there hunting, and Aaron couldn't get there for a day or two, and so I ended up killing a buck and immediately called you and said, Hey, don't come out today, and never asked you what you were going to bring. And you were going to rent a car? I feel bad. I think that is a heck of a great brother. It is. I'm going to say. And I would have paid for it. I just make you feel bad.

Well, I didn't want to take the side-by-side all the way out there because we didn't need it. No, you'd have to put some truck tires. That's what I've been doing. By the way, people are putting truck tires on side-by-side to get the mileage out of them, by the way. Oh, yeah. Anyway, well, so any prospects of getting a 4x4 in the near future? No. Okay. This is November. Have you had any good options? What are your options? Say, a Denali that's got everything but maybe the front bench seat. I mean, just tell us if you had any good options come across the desk. August 28th, I haven't even looked. When I moved to Plan B to take the wife Tahoe on the side-by-side on every hunt, I haven't even looked back. Okay, you've missed some great opportunities. I tell you what, that Tahoe's a good little hunt rig. I'll pull some pictures. Chris, put them on the show notes.

That thing gets around pretty good. I've always liked those two-door blazers. They're on a half-ton chassis. Oh, yeah. Nobody thinks you're hunting in one of those, so you're covered. You just smoke screen everyone on the mountain. Okay. It's been good. I'm rooting for you. And by the way, how about that guy on Instagram totally loading us up with a great truck for you?

I mean, that was awesome. There was a good opportunity. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was. It was just like the night before opening of sheep season was the problem. Yeah. Aaron was trying to do, getting ready to do a smash and grab and just wasn't even in the cards, really. No. So... Well, there's about, I can list of, well, you need to call a few other listeners, too, that haven't got a truck, so... Okay, okay. Yeah, give us a list. But the problem is, new ones still aren't coming out, and the used ones, everybody knows they're worth a mint, so they're jacking them up.

Five to fifteen grand. Have you ever thought about buying or calling that guy that you sold your other truck to and buying it back? Fly to Michigan and get it and drive it back. Yeah. It's been good, and we're good. All right. One other thing, one other thing I wanted to, we just kind of wanted to, I don't know where you're at on the highway or what you're doing, but. Tell us about your Alaska experience. I want to know, like I heard it was crazy, but I've never asked you in I want to know how it went down, what saved your life, what gear you would change, things like that. Yeah, so we'll tee it up a little bit. You went up there with some buddies. Yeah, we went up there. We kind of had a self-guided DIY drop camp. We wanted a ridge hunt, and I don't know how in-depth you want to get on this, but you should have listened to our story first before Devin and Wyatt's successful hunt.

But anyway, we wanted a ridge hunt just for the flexibility to move, and we're not really... Now, this is something...is this something some of you have done before? Like, it's not like... No. Yeah, I've done a ridge hunt before up there. Well, that was when we drew our moose tags there. But this is an over-the-counter area, and the ridge hunt, basically, you're getting dropped off on a ridge, and you're a little higher, not on a lake, and you're a little higher. Yeah, or a river or anything.

You might get some caribou up there, too. Aaron wanted to hunt caribou, and the other guys maybe hunt summering bulls early September before they've gone to rut. Makes total sense. So, we're talking like a September timeframe, early. Yes. Well, he wants us there September 1 because you're hunting pre-rutted bulls up high before they come down into the river bottom. So, anyway, that's what we had in mind. When we get up there and 10 minutes into the guy's hangar, he throws us a curveball that says, He said, hey, we're not going to the ridge. I got another spot opened up on a river, and we're like, well, what's wrong with the ridge? And it's just windy. The forecast showed wind. It's hard to get in there, and that meant four flights and a cub getting up there. And anyway, we were like, well, we trust you. You know, this isn't our cup of tea. We're out of our element.

So, you tell us, and he says, well, I want to get you down on this river. And we're like, well, we have no waders or we have no raft. And they're like, well, you probably don't need one. And I'm like, we're three Westerners. Did you guys have swimming lessons when you were in third grade? Is that what his next question was? No. No, he just said you won't need them because most of the game is going to be on the other side. And I'm like, I know, but I says, we're Westerners. Look at us. We can't sit still. Just like Wyatt and Devin's hunt, like, we're the opposite. When Westerners go up there on a moose hunt, we're like the worst. When I say we, the three of us, I think you guys would be the same. We're just like, you're telling me we can hunt a river bar in a bend, three guys for 10, 12 days? That's not going

to work. And so, he's like, well, and I found some waders over in the corner. Who's of these? Oh, that's a hunter left those. I'm like, can we take them? Yeah, you can take those. We're size eight. We scrounged some waders up, and then we were off. Well, when When we're dropping in on this spot, I'm looking like there's a glass of knob. Oh, there's one over there. I find two good glass of knobs on the way in, and one's on the other side of the river, and one's over here, where our camp is. And I'm like, well, we got to get to those two spots. So, anyway, the waders, one were hip waders, and one were chest waders that we had. The chest waders didn't really fit me. They were a pretty small boot, anyway.

And the, I don't know, the thigh hip waders were, they'd fit any of us. So, the plan was we'd just, you know, obviously we went over the protocol. I mean, the river wasn't that dangerous. It didn't look that bad when we got there. But we still, it was an issue. We're like, hey, make sure your pack's unbuckled, unbuckle all your straps, loosen everything, have your gun tied on. I mean, so it was enough of a concern we addressed it, and we should go together. We got two sets. Three of you. Yeah, three of us. Three of you, so nobody ever crossed the river alone. A lone guy can stay on the side where you're camped, and he'll be all right. That was the plan, and then it started out good, and that was the other problem. September 1st is not the rut. So, you don't want to be down on the rutting ground September 1st, so that kind of was a curveball, too.

But we were going to make the most of it. I mean, we were going to hunt hard, and we started seeing moose. The first night, we saw three moose. The next day, we saw moose. We saw a really good bull on the second day. He was on the other side of the river, and we were taking turns crossing, like, just how we work any western hunt. Like, hey, you go glass this knob, you glass it, and so you're not seeing the same thing every day. Right. Everybody's just changing it up a little bit. Changed it up a little bit, and there was always... Anyway, so, day five, it rained, and the river rose like in 12 hours or 24 hours. It raised like 18 inches. And so, there was no crossing at camp, but camp was the widest spot. And, you know, and that's where he had told us to hunt, is like, you guys just want to hunt this strip.

And I'm looking at that, like, it won't last six hours right here. Wyatt and Devin can relate. But I brought a trail camera, which I surprised Devin why he didn't. What? I'm like, I'll put a trail camera on this spot that he says is good, and as soon as it proves me wrong, then I'll come down in here and hunt. Well, the trail camera had nothing on it the whole time we were there. That's a good idea. That's kind of a good idea. Well, plus, you're going to kill something up there, and you got wolves and grizzlies. You got to get some pictures of them. And anyway. Yeah. So, I put the truck hammer down on the crossing where they crossed, that's right where we crossed, and that was not an issue until day five. Day five, we get 18 inches, and there was no way we were crossing, like, that's it, we're not crossing. Right.

And then after a day of that, we're like, well, what if we go upriver and cross the contributory, you know, a smaller... Tributaries before it braids out. Yeah. A couple of smaller rivers, let's just call it, that aren't converged. Yeah. Let's cross those, and then we can cross up above. So, BJ and Jake did that the one day, and it was fine. One day, Jake broke the rule, and he crossed one night. He went after a bull, and he came back alone, and he's like, yeah. I'm like, well, yeah, you should have waited for it. So, just like borderline, but he made it. It was just borderline, but he made it, and he's just like, yeah, I don't know, that's not good. And he was wearing the chest wader. So, anyway, we start out this day, I think it's a Monday morning, and me and BJ are going to go up and cross the small one. And it's not small, it's a pretty good size two.

And then I'm going to cross the big one, and then BJ's going to just go up on the hill above the small one. Well, anyway, so it's like 6.30 in the morning. We're just leaving camp, because we've got a little ways to go. And we crossed the first one, the little one, and then BJ walks over to the edge, and he just points to where they crossed. He says, what we did last night was we went here, and then we went to that gravel bar, and then went over. And I'm like, oh, yeah, it looks fine. Your confidence is up, the water's gone down, you're thinking no big deal. So, BJ, at that point, he turns and leaves to go up to his blast knob, and I proceed to cross the main river. And I didn't have any problems until I got about, I was only 10 feet from the other side.

And I've got everything on loose, I've got my trekking poles, you know, so you have four points of contact, or always three, as you're moving across. My uphill leg started taking on water in my hip wader, and it just sucked. So, basically, now I have one leg and two trekking poles, and I'm trying to decide to go back or go forward, and I take a step forward, and I go down. Geez. Packs on, but your waist belt's unsnapped. No, these are just hips, so they're just around my hip and one loop around your belt.

So, they're not like the full... Yeah, single legs. Well, I mean your pack, like your backpack. Your backpack. Yeah, like lightweight ones. Yeah, like lightweight. Okay. And you have your boots on as well. And so, you just slide these over your boots and everything. So, they fill up. So, I go down, and I only go about, I don't know, 10 or 20 feet. And it necks down tight. And so, it's just raging right in this... So, you mean you didn't just fall down? Like, now you're floating down the river. Well, I am swimming. I'm going, and it's pushing me. Well, back up, right before you crossed though, you had your, you know, like you're supposed to. You undid your waist strap and your sternum breast strap. Yes, I had my shoulder strap. And your shoulder straps were loose, but what did you do? And my gun was on my shoulder.

So, you had your gun on your shoulder, and right at the last minute though, what did you do with your gun? Well, I was gonna get to that. Oh, okay. I just peed it up. Yeah, no, no. I haven't heard any of this. This is crazy. This is a lesson. I mean, this is, A, a rookie mistake, and B, a lesson that you should never do. So, the gun's on my shoulder. Everything's good. Well, I fall down, and I'm getting pushed. It gets pretty narrow right there, so the force is just pretty severe, and it pushes me right into these J trees. You know the ones that come out and then go up? They're on the bank, and they go up, and I just barrel, I just go into some of those. And my head's above water, but I am literally stuck. I cannot move anything. And I am like, what in the world? Why can my pack not come off?

Because the gun's gone at this point in my mind, and I'm like, I cannot. And finally, I mean, my trekking poles are stuck under a log. It's just pushing everything. Luckily, my head is above water. Wow. And I can't move. I might as well be in concrete, and I start moving my left arm a little bit and a little bit, and I come out, because my trekking poles obviously have that go, but they're hooked on my wrist straps. I just slide one hand out of that, and I get one hand free, and And I start wrestling and fighting, and I come free, because I think it was my pack that was stuck on there. And I come free, but I grab hold of the tree with my free arm, and I don't know, it just all happened so fast. I'm just hanging on, and I'm looking around like, oh my heck, what is the protocol?

Like, what? I can't hold on for much longer. I look downriver, and there's another tree about, I don't know, 8, 10 feet from me, Same thing, it comes out, but there's only one. And at this point, I think I'm free, and I'm like, well, I cannot get this pack off. And anyway, I decided to let go. So, I let go, and I go down to the next tree, and as I get to the next tree, I reach up. And at that point, my head had gone under. I reached up with my two hands above my head and shoulder and locked them in place over the log. When I did that, my hand hits my barrel, and it dawns on me, I'm an idiot. Subconsciously, when I crossed the creek over there, I'm like, I don't want to lose my gun on my shoulder if I fall. I looped it over my neck. So, now that is the thing that's almost killing me.

That's what is almost killing me at this point. It's got everything locked in. It's around your neck, up over your shoulder, down through. Yeah, like you do when you ride a motorbike. When you ride your motorbike going up a hill, you got to put your gun on that way. Stupid, stupid mistake. So, I hit the barrel, and I'm like, oh my heck, you idiot, you got to get that off. So, I reach back, and now I'm holding on with my right hand on the log. Trying to get this gun off. And again, like I say, I've got two waders full, I've got a 40-pound pack that weighs at least 80 now, and my gun, I mean, everything is soaking wet. The force of the water. And the force of the water is like pulling like, and I just remember vividly thinking, I am not going out this way. I remember, and it was a fight. So, I get the gun off, and I sling it towards the bank, kind of half in the water, half on.

I didn't care. I mean, I don't care at this point. I'm like, and I get my left pack. This is the Red Rock Precision. You just threw through. You don't care, basically. You don't even care. Yeah. I mean, I'm just trying to get out of the river. It's 630 in the morning. It's freezing. That's one thing that people have asked, how cold was it? I'm like, I don't remember. I don't remember how cold it was. I mean, obviously, it was freezing, but when I get the gun loose, the adrenaline is pumping. I grab my pack strap on the one side, and boom, it comes right off like it's supposed to. Loose, everything's loose. Well, as that swings around and hits the current, it pulls it off my right arm as well. So, I switch hands, and now I'm holding on to the log with my left, and my pack shoulder strap, like what do I let go of?

And you're like, do I let go of my life with fire, whatever's in there, optics, like everything. Everything on my pack. You're in reach, whatever. Do you fling it up on the bank? You can't fling it. It's 80 pounds. There's no flinging. So, what happened is, when I held on to that, it pushed me right against the bank. So, my back is against the bank. I'm holding on to the tree with my left arm, and my pack swung over and it hits the bank. And at that point, one of my feet, and I don't know where, I assume my waders are gone. They've already been washed off me. And I feel something on my foot, and I grab and I push up and I have a little bit of, I can feel the bottom. So, at that point, I'm like, I've got to face the bank now. So, I look, and right at my pack is about a four-inch willow coming out.

I'm like, okay, I'm just going to spin and grab that. So, I let go of my left hand, and as I come around, I grab onto that with my hand, and now I'm facing the bank. So, now my pack's in my lap. I'm holding onto that tree, and I've got a little bit of footing. I'm like, okay, I'm going to get this. So, at that point, I just shimmy up my pack. I just kind of get it up on the bank, and I'm going to get out. And I get out, and it's a yard sale. You're exhausted. You're exhausted. You have to be. Exhausted. Oh, I- How long do you think, from when you went in until that, would you think, if you had to guess? It's so hard to know. Like eight minutes that felt like 80 or something? It felt like over 10, but yeah, it was probably, I mean, it's hard to say, but one thing I do know how bad it was, is two things that really prefaced how bad it was, is how wet everything in my pack.

There was not a piece of gear in my pack, including a Swarovski spot and scope that didn't have water in it. Everything had water in it. When I got it out, I reached for my puffies, because I stripped down, took everything off, but not everything just started coming off. And I got to get a fire going, and everything in there was wet. The other thing that made me realize, two and a half hours later, when I was on the bank of the river, drying everything out, and everything was good, when BJ, like I said, had really good friends that... Anyway, so, I was sore and fatigued. When that adrenaline came off in two and a half hours, I was spent. You gave everything you had. You gave everything you had. And that was two and a half hours after. It wasn't the next day I was sore. It just, and that's what made it realize that it was as bad as it could be.

So, I get out. I'm stripped down to nothing but my skivvies. I grab my Bic light. I always have the lighter up there in my pocket. I grab it. Of course, it doesn't work, and everything's wet. So, I just skipped protocol one, two, and three and went straight to the good stuff, the pyro putty. Pyro putty and the lighter.

I crawled over to the tree. What lighter was it? I didn't have a Bic lighter in your pocket. You know, you always have a Bic lighter in your pocket. Well, I had the... I mean, it wouldn't even spark. It was soaked. Just tranch, the flints. And then I had matches and a fire starter as well, but I'm like, you know, you always have multiple ways to go up there, but I just went... I went straight to the pyro putty, grabbed it, wadded up a ball under a tree, and lit it. I had a fire going within a minute. How did you use their lighter? You used their lighter? I opened the lighter, their lighter. The electronic light. And their lighter, obviously, was drenched and soaked within the lid and everything, but it cracked. I opened their lighter, and water ran out of the little capsule, and I'm like, oh boy. And it looks like a shock from a taser, right? Like, it's electric shock. Yeah. Okay.

Charge it with a USB. Yes, you charge it with a USB, and it freaking lit it. It lit that pirate party, and then I just, branches that were dry, and then I had a fire going, and then And that's how BJ and Jake found me. I mean, I had no way to get in touch. How far down the river? You're not talking like 50 yards down the river. We're talking you floated down there 200, 300 yards or whatever. No, no, I got stuck within the first... I was stuck quick. But they were going the other way to go home. Oh, they were going other directions. Yeah, they were up on glass knobs, and they saw smoke, and they're like, why the heck is there smoke right there? Why is he building a fire right there? It's right where he crossed. Dude, you could have been dead, and nobody know it for hours. No, no, no, they wouldn't have. If you go down the river, you'd never be found.

I don't know if they find me, because BJ comes down, when he finally gets to me, I'm like, BJ, can you go see if you find my gun, my bonos and stuff? He walks over and goes, is that where you climbed out of the river? And I says, yeah, I don't know, yeah, must have. He goes, I don't know how you got out right there. It's a five-foot cup bank. He says, and by the way, if you wouldn't have got out there, we wouldn't have found you. And I'm like, are you kidding? He goes, no. Get over here and look at this. So, it was spooky, scary stuff. It was not good. Well, not only that, just think, okay, think about if you would have let your backpack go. And they're up glassing for hours, and you got out, and you've got hypothermia. And you got out, you've got hypothermia. But now you can't start a fire. Yeah. So you're...

Or if you don't have the pyro putty lighter, which a lot of people don't have, they have the pyro putty. No, I don't usually carry it. I carried it up there, and I'm glad I did. Yeah, it was western. It was pretty intense. It was crazy. But yeah, those guys saw my smoke, and they burned off the hill and come down. And of course, you know, Jake couldn't cross because he didn't have waders, but BJ came over, and he grabbed all my gear and hauled it over. And then we, you know, went up river a little bit and crossed back over. And anyway, got on our campsite and laid everything out. And I mean, I've never seen what, I mean, Everything I had was wet. I mean, my phone, everything got ruined, and they were in, you know, what I thought were pretty good dry bags. Oh my gosh. Anything that didn't get wet? No, everything was wet? Or did some?

Well, no, I had a roll top. The roll top dry bags, obviously they're better, and I did have a guide jacket in there, and I was able to put that. That was nice, because it was the only thing dry I had, and I put that on as I was building the fire. But my toes got pretty numb. In fact, I'm barely getting them back to normal right now. Come on, right now. We're talking two months. I'm dead serious. About three weeks ago. Yeah, they've been numb and tingly for quite a while. Because I got out and took my socks off, and I was just kind of walking around in that moss and getting firewood and stuff. And I just, I don't know. I just... It was probably just being in the waters, like probably, I don't know, feels like it's 35 or 40 degree water up there. It's all coming off glaciers and stuff. Were you happy to just sit in camp and watch the river bank? Oh, I just, I was happy.

Were you pretty effective as far as... It was two weeks of, I had some bad dreams, and I had some bad, you know, aftermath. But I'm good now, although I was down on the river last week crossing, and I do have a little river. River panic. Yeah. Were you, did you guys, so how much longer did you stay? You dried everything out? You just continued hunting, or did you call and stay camping out? Yep. No, no, no, we hunted. We stayed, and we killed a moose the next day. Jake shot a moose the next day, and it was just starting to get good. And when we had to leave, as you know, with those dates, it was just kind of unfortunate we had those, the date issues. Huh. But, no, it was good. I'm gonna go buy 14 of those lighters right now. Good Christmas gifts. Oh, Christmas gifts, my kids. Like, come on, I mean, you're lucky. I got one last year, and I think I've let... Ty's had it.

Well, and I've had one. My boy's had it. But we're not smokers, and so you don't... it's not like you're constantly checking the charge on it, making sure it's charged up. Most of the time, he's farting around if it's acting like he's got a mini taser in his hand. It's gonna light you up. Yeah, and... Hey, Mom. So, when you need it, it's probably gonna be out of charge. I don't wanna do my charge. Here, check this out. Yeah, grab one of them. So, yeah, so the mistakes, we broke our own rule, not going two by two, and then the whole, the rifle, I mean, you just, I thought the rifle was gone. I thought it was gone. I didn't even, I'm like, well, I lost that, and as I was fighting, and then it come to be that's what about killed me. And you found it, though, obviously.

Yep, yep. He found it, and it was, I mean, for as drenched as it was and in the water, it didn't have any rust issues. I mean, it was, I felt fine shooting it the next day. Well, yeah, usually they have a little, like, just a little surface rust. I got a little on mine. Just a little surface rust, not a big deal. A little rim oil, take it off or whatever. Well, I can't, there's a couple of things. A, you should have died. B, you should have died. C, you should have died. You know, when you got out, you had your pack still. That's amazing. And then in your pack was an electronic lighter. That's amazing. And the pyro put in. You got a fire started on your own, all of which, if none of that would have happened, those guys wouldn't have come looking for you for another six hours.

No, and going back to the cold, my hands, I felt like they were swollen twice their size. And I couldn't figure out why, but it was just because they were cold. I could hardly use my hands, and they felt just big. I'm like, what is wrong with my hands? And they were just swollen, and they weren't swollen. I think they were just so cold. So, yeah, if you have... I mean, that pyro putty and lighter, again, when you're hunting up north, just keep them in your cargo pocket. I mean, that's where they should be. Well, we were good. Because if you do lose your pack and lose everything, you can always build a fire. Well, before pyro putty was around, I was up in Region G, and it was that same kind, real wet, And we started a fire with Vaseline and cotton balls, but we didn't have an electronic lighter. I mean, you know, that's just next level preparedness. Well, anybody that's interested,

go to www.pyrobuddy.com. P-Y-R-O-P-U-T-T-Y.com. I didn't plan on this being an advertisement, but I'm telling you. It saved me. It got me. I was dry. I mean, it still took a while to get, you know, dried up. Did you have the summer version, the winter version? I had It's a winner. Did you? Did you? Yep. Yep. All right. The winter blend. Is that what it is? Yep. The official. Well, all right. So, is your wife going to let you hunt, continue to hunt? I mean, where are we at on some of the... Yeah, that's what the... When I was, I don't know, we were getting ready for sheep hunting, and I got word and got word from his wife who told my mom and dad, and they're calling me, and I'm like, how do I know? I'm getting in reaches from Jake, Because Aaron's inReach doesn't work. Yeah, all my stuff's gone. It's all waterlogged.

My headlamp, which is waterproof, was done. I mean, stuff that shouldn't be ruined was ruined. But you're not supposed to put your gears through a spin cycle of a washing machine either. Okay, probably not, but what brand of headlamp should we avoid? Well, it was a Petzl. I mean, a good quality one. You're like one of the first out there. Yep, it's a good one. I just, I don't know. Did you send it back? Did it work after you got it home? It does, but I don't trust it. It works a little bit, but it kind of has its own attitude right now. I don't know. But yeah, so Jake had to take over all the communication, so yeah, he was telling everyone kind of what was going on, because yeah, I didn't have any. Holy cow. It's scary stuff, and it can happen easy. I mean, it can happen down there.

We've crossed rivers in Idaho hunting wolves. I mean, you have Aaron, Jason, the winter, it's March, and there's not, you don't think it's bad until you go down in three or four feet of ice cold water. That's right. Well, and that's the thing is we, none of us thought it was bad. Like, we're not gonna, you're gonna get wet and get soaked, but you're not gonna, what, because you know, I mean, it was a big river, but not a giant one that you're like, crazy, but it also didn't take in count you're gonna get stuck in there. And that's one thing we didn't really go through the scenario was like, yeah, you might fall down, get your pack off, swim over the edge or whatever, but getting stuck in that was not something that we talked about.

It wasn't part of the plan. So, you never know. You never know. And we just took for granted, like, and it's always our Western mentality, and everyone's this way. I shouldn't call it Western, but like, we didn't have to go across the river. There's plenty of places to hunt, but it's like we got to push it and go further. Gung-ho fired up. The moose were over there, and the stuff were, yeah, and we're like, we got to get over there. Well, we didn't. We didn't need to get over there that bad. We should have just, you know, but... Well, and confidence comes in numbers, too. You got a group of you. You're all physically fit. Everybody's getting ready to crank. I mean, what could stop you? Well, and you're there 10 days. It's not like, hey, I'll just come back next weekend if I don't get one. You know, it's like, hey, we got to push it to the max.

And I think that's something we've got to be a little cautious of when we go up north from the states. You know, I don't know, you can push it too hard, and I definitely learned my lesson. Like, we just didn't... just wait for the river to come down and just hunt where you can hunt. That's the one thing about Alaska and up north is time doesn't even exist. The guys that live there, time is just... Nah, today's not going to happen. We're just going to sit in camp today. Yeah, and we're all so time-sensitive in the lower 48. If they didn't respond to my text in the last three minutes, I get wound up. I want to be on glassy knob 30 minutes before light. I want to be in position. Yeah, and it was funny listening to Wyatt and Devin's podcast, and we're not moose hunters. Like I say, I've been on one, so that already made me in the group leader that I was the expert.

I mean, we just have a hard time sitting. It's funny to listen to successful moose hunters, and man, we just don't have it in us. No, you gotta sit and watch that riverbank for days. No, no. And we saw a lot of moose because we saw a lot of that, you know, more stuff than usual just because we were just glass in such wide open country. But it doesn't do you any good, really, because you can't go after them and shoot them anyway. Three or four miles out there, you shoot one, then what? You gotta eat it. Yep. You gotta sit there and eat it. Build a shelter. Yeah, that's right. Build a cabin. You can't hike it back. So, yeah, pretty crazy. Thanks for sharing that with us. Okay, sounds good. Well, appreciate it. Have fun sheep hunting. Have a good weekend. Glad you're live, buddy. Same here. Good luck on the truck shop. Oh, hey, we rented a truck up there in Alaska, so I had one for 10 days.

Oh, geez. That doesn't count. How did it feel? It was enjoyable. It was nice. It was enjoyable. It was nice. All right. Just let us know when we need to get back in the search mode on that. I just want to know what you're conceding, because I thought we had one found in Cedar, and it was the non-bench seat option, but that probably would have worked. Yeah, just that bench seat in the front. So, six seat belts. A leather bench seat. Generally, bench seats are hard to find one. Oh, it doesn't even have to be leather. It doesn't have to be leather, just six seat belts. Six seat belts for a family of five. Yep. That's correct. It is? Yeah, he's only got three kids and his wife. I mean, who's the sixth one? Is that for the hitchhiker? Just for a hitchhiker in case you ever need an extra seat belt? You only got five of you in your family. I know, but in my last truck...

It was a captain's chair like the others. But, alright. We'll lay off that. You want what you want. Totally get that. You want what you want. Okay. Well, thanks a lot. You there, Aaron? He is done with us. He is done with us. He mysteriously went into a canyon. Did he? I don't know. I don't know. He might have just said, screw it. I'm done talking to you guys. That is a crazy story. Everybody, buy Pyro Putty. He brings up that six seatbelts, and he's got five in his family. What do you say? I don't know. Well, clients and gear, I don't know. I like a captain's chair. The older I get, I'm like, I like a captain's chair. I don't know. All that stuff in the middle, I had my last truck, had a bench, but I had the middle console folded down, never came up. All the time, yeah. In fact, my wife would take it once in a while, bring a bunch of kids home,

and would flip that thing up, and all my stuff would fall out. Yeah, because it was organized when it was down. They'd flip it up, and it's like, now it's been through a blender. It's chaos. Oh, I know. Right now, I've got a binder inside mine. Right now. Anyway, pyroputty.com, P-Y-R-O-P-U-T-T-Y.com. It's kind of crazy. I don't know. I don't know what to say. Red Rock still shot great. What do you say? Red Rock Precision.com. Go buy a gun. It'll last through, I don't know about anything. Fall in a river.

RedRockPrecision.com, check them out. Great guns. I don't know. We just, anyway, I guess that was just impromptu. We're late for lunch. We need to go do that. But what I guess we were talking about before we talked to Aaron, and that's a crazy story. It kind of changed everything. But it's planning 2021. It's time to plan 2021. Adam, I don't know. We sold 10, 12, 13 landowner tags for Nevada today. For next year. It's time. Time of year, and as tough as it was in a lot of the lower southwestern states because of unprecedented dry weather. I'm talking southern Nevada, southern Utah, northern Arizona, New Mexico. I don't know. I'm not speaking for all of New Mexico, but it was a grind. These hunts wore on us. Don't lose hope. Next year's coming. Anybody that feels bad about... Here's our point, and maybe we should call Clint, because

he's talked to a hundred people that have hunted Colorado, and all of which, it just feels like it's fairly moderated. No question. Yeah. But anybody that feels bad about eating a tag, and you want a visit about it, why, give me a holler. I ate a few of them. I'm not going to tell you how many on air, but have no problems. You know, but you want what you want. You want a good animal, and... You blended a lot of species together. I did. I did. I did. There are at least three that I can think of. Oh, there's seven course mill. So, anyway, having said that, let's move on, because next year's gonna be better, right, Chris? Oh, it better be. And for me, it means less. Hunt more on less. Hunt each hunt more. Work on it harder. Don't fill a schedule. We all, we also say, don't be afraid of getting too many tags, because, but that applies to the people

I think I'm only going to put in for two states because I don't want to draw too much. Well, if your criteria is, it all is about your criteria. You can put in for elite trophy states in some states, and some easier to draw stuff with preference points set aside like Colorado or Wyoming, where you might predictably draw. But yeah, you're never going to draw six incredible trophy quality tags in one year. I think what you're saying is these are more random tag opportunities. Right now, I've got a full schedule with tags I know I'm going to get. I'm going to get a general Utah. I'm going to get a Colorado tag. I'm going to get... There's certain things I am going to get. Yep. So, up your draw strategy on top of what you know you're going to get better be better than what you think you're going to have or far better. Otherwise, something's going to have to give.

Five tags, or six, of all the same magnitude, if that makes sense. And January 1st, before the application season even begins. Because that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm falling into the trap of... You're burning points on paper, you're burning them by deciding how you're going to put in, and then don't have any room for anything else to be added. And when they do get added... And Sean draws an awesome melt tag, and you have to go spend 12 days with them. Oh, plus a few on each end. Okay, so let's call it two and a half weeks. And it deserved all the attention it took. It deserved it. But that was after I was chock full. Yeah. You know what I mean? With, you know, General Utah, some Arizona archery, you know, Nevada, Colorado and Wyoming, I mean, just tags that could have been lined up. I mean, and Jana had tags, Ashley had tags, and I want them to have tags.

And the kids didn't start school on time this year, so they were all crushing the bow hunt for two straight weeks this year. Oh, day in and day out. Hey, Dad, Dad, Dad. And you don't want to tell them no, because you're telling them, this is never going to happen. Get up every morning. Better be ready. That's right. And it's true. And it was awesome. Justin's got a learner's permit, and I'm saying, get out there and start scouting. And Jenna's like, yeah, but you need to go with him, because he's only got a learner's permit. And I'm like, I'm not sure I care. I don't know what to say. I'm glad that my son is within a month. He can have his official license within a month, finally. Hey, he's ready too. Oh yeah, well he is. It's just that finally you can turn them loose, and yeah. Then the scouting and all of that, just like when Sean finally hit that, it was

like it lightened your load when he can go scout a little bit in the places you and him are gonna go hunt. He can do that in the summer now while you're doing some other stuff. Anyway, first world problems, But problems to sort out, but the big picture is it's time to start planning, but I think we both, with our families where they are and our kids hunting, we have to be a little bit more strategic, because we, in January 1, our eyes are this big, and we want everything, including a couple of antelope tags. And we're writing the magazine, and I can get excited about, like you're talking about, javelina, for example, or say, a barberry sheep, Adam. I mean, just stuff that I'm thinking, you know... Well, Wyatt walks in with a 35-incher, and you want one. And we all want one, right?

So, then we're like, well, we need to go do that. And by the way, what potential 200-incher are you going to give up, mule deer-wise, tag-wise? Yeah. Well, none of them. Okay, just keep it on. Okay. Janice smashed a 28-incher in Colorado. It was awesome, heavy buck. But that takes into account, like Ashley, same thing, takes into account, which I want all those to happen. So, you had to pull back from, I can hunt four days here, then I got to take the girls to Colorado. So, I don't do my hunt justice, I don't do their hunt justice, pretty soon I don't do anything justice. Anyway, and there's a lot of guys out there that are in the same boat. That's why we're mentioning it. We can use ourselves as examples. A lot of you are probably laughing, yeah, because you go through the same thought process every year. All of

you are shopping on an empty stomach. Yeah, we are. You never do that. That's exactly why. You go eat the biggest, gnarliest cheeseburger in the world, and then go shop. By the way, I have a garage full of food still from our epic outdoors hunt giveaway from Craig. Good luck. Keep eating. I was really hungry, and I had eight people in mind for six, seven days, and that's a lot of food. And man, I need to... It's just still sitting in the garage in heaps. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I'll bring it here to the office, but I know it won't get eaten until December. So, anyway, lots of planning going on. If you didn't hunt, you need to hunt. Call us, we can help you. If you hunted too much, you know, I don't know what to say. Change your life. I don't know.

I, Janet's like it. Don't let another year, I mean, we've said it, we're not going to say it in print anymore, but don't. No. Don't let another one go by. They're flying by. I would rather have too much, slightly too much, though, than not another. I mean, you need to be on that fine line of slightly too much because, you know, you don't have enough, and there's nothing worse. No, there isn't. You're sitting home watching the Colorado leftover list nonstop, being unproductive like Clint Lindstrom, you know, people like that. Okay, how about Wyatt? Okay. Okay, so Wyatt tried to get a little turn-back tag, and he's been in the office a lot lately. Other than right now, I think he's slightly sick with COVID, possibly. Let's give him a haul.

Real quick, let's just end the podcast with a call to a sick feller. I don't...huh? Yeah, maybe he's got his results back. And he didn't...he went on the moose, he killed one, but he wanted to hunt a little more than he did. Let's give him a holler. Think he'll answer? I don't know. Might have to talk to Carly. I don't know if she's... I think he'll answer. Hi. Are you alive? I'm alive, yeah. Barely? Barely, yeah. Have you got COVID? You got your test results back or not? Have you guys got a podcast? Well, we're just thinking about you. I'll be back in the office, and the crew is not here. So, there's a member of the crew that we've heard sick and afflicted somewhere, and we've heard something. We want to know. Are you ready to announce anything? Anything? Yeah, headaches and fever? I don't have any results. Do you have headaches or fever? I've had fevers, yes.

What else? Like, do you think it's just a sore throat and a common cold? Yeah, probably just a man cold. I'm probably really, really okay. Is that what your wife told you? A man cold? That's what she told me, yeah. She's a nurse. I grew up with a mom that was a nurse, and it better, you better had a bone sticking out, or she wouldn't even really get that excited. Like, she stapled and stitched this up on the kitchen table. So, I mean, it was just, my wife watched my mom give me shots. I had allergy shots for a bunch of time. So callous, Becky's like, your mom will never give me a shot, because she just calloused, you know. Just routine. She doesn't have to have any bedside. She didn't have to put on that hat. Jana can have a very slight fever, maybe, and a possible just barely headache, and she had the full-on flu. The rest of us guys are going to the emergency room.

That part should get edited, probably. Well, we're just checking on you. I don't know. You've been tested earlier when you and Archibald went to Alaska, and that was a quick test. Did you do a different one this time, or what's the holdup? Yeah, I had to get tested just here in town, and it's gonna take two to four days, they said. Oh my gosh. So, now we're in an office where you have been, and have used to be... Where I have been, yeah. I don't know what you've touched here. I don't know what you've... His office borders mine. I did shut our window in case there's any live viruses on our window between us. Well, we thought we would get an announcement here, but I guess the bottom line, we're just calling to check up on you. That's really what we're calling for. Tell us, I mean, you're throwing up, you got diarrhea, where are you at?

See, if I would have saw a Carter's phone call, I would have just screened it, but I saw Adam, and I trusted him. I'm like, this isn't a podcast. What does that mean? Yeah. This is serious. But now, I'm on that list now. The not trust list. All right. Well, we're gonna go... No longer answer list here. We're gonna go out in the community and enjoy the sun. All right, what are you gonna be doing? Mate, I'm just gonna be just lounging around the house. Carly stocked me up with some burritos and pizzas and things I can throw in the microwave to kind of keep me alive until she gets home. Oh, my God. All right, guy. Do you need to announce it? When you get your test results back, let us know. You don't want us to be looking for an Eastern Plains turn-back tag or some late season deal for you? You think? No, no, I think I'm gonna take it easy for a minute.

Not gonna do an over-the-counter bison in Utah, nothing? No, no, none of that. All right, guy. Extended archery? Yeah, not that either. Okay. How about over-the-counter coos? You must be sick. What was the other one? Over-the-counter Arizona? Arizona coos, over-the-counter archery. Huh? At least we've got plenty of time. Maybe we should go do that one. Yeah. Okay, well, get better. Don't come back till you're 100%, okay? Yeah, thanks for checking in.

All right, Doug Gilliam. Now I'm on the Carter crap list. He trusts me. I feel like I let the guy down. He sounds like crap. Poor guy. He did. He just thought, I don't know what he thought I was going to call him for. I don't know. Anyway, well. We all get sick. Man up, lad. All right, here we go. Anything else, Chris? We're good? Let's wrap it up. Let's go. Good wrap up. We appreciate everybody out there. We're cranking. We got a December magazine that Just hit the streets. Emacs should be going live. Keep an eye out for your mailboxes. The biggest thing is to keep an eye on it is for the Alaska Application Alert, which is due December 15th, if you're interested in that. I also want to give one last shout-out to a piece of gear. I've used it on several of my guns the last couple of years. Made by Rugged Ridge Outdoor Gear, their tripod, lightweight 13-ouncer, the Gen 2 Extreme Bipod.

I love that thing. It's light enough to just, I took it on my goat hunt, just 13 ounces. Yeah, you might say it's almost a pound, and you're gonna, but I shot off that thing. You know, Over Ridge shot off it with the, you know, rear pack on the, you know, just under 500. And I mean, the confidence you get is just unbelievable. So, check them out at RuggedRidgeOutdoorGear.com or call them 541-526-1820. They also advertise in our magazine Epic Outdoors. They have a rear shooting rest stabilization as well on the back, lightweight little four-ounce. So, for one pound, you can have a bipod and a rear rest support, and they're awesome pieces of gear that go with me everywhere I go. So, what should we do now? Go out of lunch. That's great, everybody. We appreciate you. If you're looking to kind of go over your schedules or whatnot, give us a holler.

That's what we do here at Epic Outdoors. We're $100 yearly membership, nine issues a year. For the publication, Breaks Down All the Western States, Drawing Odds, Kill Percentages, Best Units. And then also, you can call in and get personal consultation. And we're here nonstop, starting basically in December through July. And we'll be cranking these publications out. We're researching opportunities and drawing odds and the new things in all the Western states. So, we're just super excited to get into this application season. Yep. Got a few new twists that we're going to probably incorporate into the magazine this year, And some of the research and things like that. Like what? Bronson? Can't tip that off. Okay, alright. Can't tip it off yet. But we're also not going to be able to see any of you at the shows this year. All the major sporting shows have been canceled for this winter,

which is going to kind of be a bummer not being able to see and talk there, but we'll be here in the office. It's what we do. It's part of the membership. Call and consult with us and develop a plan to draw tags and get you on the hunt if you want to go on. Some of these tags, so the expo gives 200 tags on basically, you know, where you in-person validate, right? And $5 a piece. They're going to still have those. You just won't have the in-person validation. And then also, you know, there's going to be a lot of these auction tags, conservation tags, landowner tags and whatnot on online auctions. If you're super interested in any of those, give us a holler. We'll help you keep track of some of that stuff. So, a lot of change in the way life goes on, and people do business, including us here at

Epic Outdoors. We also sell optics. We're cranking out the optics. If you're looking for Christmas ideas, you're looking to tell your wife about Christmas ideas, things like that, have her give us a holler. Definitely the best price is around, and that's not a lie. Give us a holler. We'll get you hooked up with the optics you need for December 25th, and we can go from How about that? Absolutely. All right, everybody. Okay, take care, be safe. Happy Thanksgiving.