EP 309: Getting into the 2024 Utah Permit Numbers and Dirty Laundry

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Check us out at epicoutdoors.com.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, the entire Epic Outdoors crew, minus a couple, coming at you from southern Utah here on a Friday afternoon. How are y'all doing? Everybody minus a couple. Well, I mean, cash isn't here. Who else? Cash. A couple other. Cash and cash. Darn it. Well, we only have so many headsets. Cash and cash money.

Just is what it is. Dang it. All right. Well, we had a little bit of snow. Of course, we thought it would be a little bit better, but spring is here. Is it? Yeah. Devin's been doing some yard work. Right, Devin? Tripping my lilac bushes. Yeah, that's fun stuff. Lilacs? Yeah. Really? I'm out there with little scissor things. That's legit. Kind of like we're going up. What's it called? The bonsai trimming guys. What's that called? Is that just bonsai trimming guys? Probably. Probably. Bonsai. Don't know anything about that. Bonsai trimmers? I do know that if you need any vents cleaned out, Devin's the vent guy. Oh, come on. Devin? What do you mean? You were doing projects. House projects. Some things. Tell us about the vent cleaning. Did you get that squared away? Well, I didn't buy a long enough brush. Call it a sweeper?

I figured you just pull the thing back out and I could go outside and start from the outside. It doesn't work that way. It got stuck midway. So there was a brush in there with quite the clog of lint. Okay. So this is the vent. Dog hair from who knows when. Okay. And it's weird. If it's your own dog hair, your own dirt. It's not my lint. It's okay. That's the problem. But when it's somebody else's lint, it bothers you. It had never been cleaned. But maybe let's talk about the vent support a little bit. I love the. When you crawl underneath the house. I said, how about this for janky? So we're talking about the dryer vent, right? That goes to the outside of the house. Yes. And a guy should clean that, what, once every 20 years or something like that? No. More than that? I haven't ever cleaned mine. I would say every five. Really? Robinson, do you ever clean yours?

I've never cleaned one in my life. I got the brushes. If you need to borrow them, I got 25 feet. Okay, I might because I don't think I've ever cleaned mine. So you take the cover off the outside of the house, and whoever put the duct in had duct taped inside. A joint. Let's call it a joint. Yes, the joint to the inside of the duct. Why would you ever do that? Well, I don't know. It seems like they do have duct work that has stainless steel tape. I guess double stick. No, this is black duct tape. Okay. So I finally get the brush out. There's some stuff. Okay. And it's just chunks of duct tape. And it's disgusting, and it's not your stuff. It's gross. I blow it out. Wyatt let me borrow his fancy. Leaf blower. Leaf blower. Electric leaf blower. It's got some legit power. Okay. And I look with a flashlight to see if there's any gaps, and my duct is being held. Shimmed up. By?

By a Coors Light. Coors Light beer box. So that there's no belly in the duct. It's a straight shot. I think it's brilliant. How the freak did they get that in there? The hole's this big. As you're building the house, you put it in there. Yes. It was premeditated. Back in, oh, whatever, 5, 10, whatever it was built. They're laughing all the way to the bank. That's what they used. We do know an HVAC guy we could call and find out how often we need to. I don't think he'd use Coors Light boxes, but I think he's probably done something similar. You're not on the construction crew if you haven't done some janky stuff. What's the jankiest thing you've used to shim up a dryer vent to keep it in a straight line? We could. That's a great question. Is that a common practice? Yeah. A cardboard box? Should we? I mean. Let's check in on it. Okay. Since we're on the topic. He'll never.

We've got to find out how often we should clean it out. Yeah. Think about how much. There's a certain airflow to me. Some of them are measures. Some of them are measures. We've got somebody with answers. True. That would make more sense. I know what's up. Hey, we've got some heating and air conditioning. Questions. Questions. On the Epic Outdoors podcast. We? What do you mean we? Well, I mean Devin. What's up, Clint? What are we doing? We just want some advice. Devin, we're. I got a little issue. Wait. Wait. Hold on. Clint, do you church service calls? Like, what would this call cost? Are we on the clock? It's just friends talking. You're on the clock. Depends how stupid the question is. Am I on a podcast or you guys just call me for informational reasons? Do you charge people when you talk hunting while on the job? No, I don't. Okay.

And then we were kind of wondering what you do for a living. Right, Bronson? Because he's out and about quite a bit. Yeah, he is. But he's busy and he knows what he's talking about in this arena. So, Devin, fire away. All right. How often. What's your question? How often should a guy clean his dryer vent? That's not really HVAC, but it's kind of. They're dovetailing it into your business, Clint. I know you can tell them that's not my business, but in your professional opinion.

It depends on how it's run and how plugged up it gets. Like, Clint, I've never cleaned one my whole life. What if it's pipe? I've never cleaned one of mine out either, but I've had some people, if it was installed real poorly and there's like a. A kink. And there's like lots of turns in it. Little belly turns. Little belly. Or if somebody used, yeah, like a low spot. If somebody went and they got so many turns on it that it creates like a little trap in there or something. Or if somebody didn't run it in a hard pipe, they'd run it in like that. Minor hard pipe. Flexible stuff. Minor hard pipe. So, I think I'm good. Have you ever used a bear box as a support? For the belly. For the belly. So, there's no belly. To shim it up. Has he ever used something like that? Is that a common practice? So, Devin tore his apart and ends up finding a Coors Light box that's being used as kind

of a shim, a support for the vent. And I think that's probably fine. It's worked for like 25 years. Well, yeah. You could put something a little more professional on there if you want. But if it's new crawl space. Have you ever done any janky shimming? Any what? Any janky work? Any janky construction work like that? Any janky. If you had to shim some vent piping that was not straight bald pipe. I'll do it on my own house, but I won't do it for anybody else's. Good answer. So, Devin, he's saying it's normal. Because if he'd do it on his own, he'd do it somewhere else whether he says it or not. The theory, so I kill a lot of weeds in my house. I'm kind of weird about it. And as you're, there's no vegetation. There's just dirt. And as it rains, guess what comes out of the ground? What? Coors Light cans.

So, I'm just saying, I don't know if it was a construction, but I don't know how that dude got that box in that. Well, he did it while it was being built. Yeah, the house was bare by. It was premeditated. I don't think he built it, but I don't know that. Has he? I just, I don't know how he did it. You could. You'd have to, like, fold it origami, origamically. Slide it in and let it expand. Let's talk about the black duct tape. Clint, what do you use to make the joint between the pipe and the corrugated pipe or the expandable, but whatever it is, to the actual outdoor vent? Like, what would you connect those two with? Duct tape fine? Yeah, there's two things that you can use. Well, duct tape is, duct tape works, but duct tape has technically been against code now for quite a while. It's a foil tape, right? It's a foil tape. You want to use that foil tape.

They've got a foil tape that's kind of, you peel it off. It's really sticky. It doesn't come apart. The foil tape, and if you're just looking for the connection from, like, your dryer hose onto where it comes out of the wall, sometimes they've got a little clamp. You can just put a clamp on there instead. Let's call it a big old hose clamp. I'm feeling like Devin's HVAC was done by a couple weekenders. But it lasted 25 years. And until he went in to clean it, it was fine until he cleaned it. The brush I have fits the pipe. It's probably a four or five-inch pipe, and it spins because I put it on a drill. So did you put the brush down there, though? And Clint, all I had was a ball of duct tape and lint that filled half of a five-gallon bucket. So, Clint, is it possible that Devin didn't clean it properly? Like, is it possible he janked it up? No, it's clean. I doubt it.

Well, if you tried to clean it, was it working before you started cleaning it? Yes. Was there a reason you decided to clean your bed? Yeah, because I could tell that the airflow sucked on my outside, and the clothes took longer to drive. So it's obviously 40% clogged. And that lint, it goes in there. And if somebody messed up when they put it in, they feel like put screws through it. You're not supposed to use screws in a dryer vent because those screws go through the inside, and then it grabs the lint, and it plugs it up faster if you screw it together instead of paving it together. Interesting stuff. This is amazing stuff. Well, not really. You guys call me up and talk about dryer vents now? Has anybody ever got sick off of somebody else's dirty dryer lint? Of course they have. Devin hates the fact that their dryer lint's not his dryer lint. It's not that big a deal, right, Clint?

You didn't see what I saw. I knew one lady that she didn't vent to the outside. She just took some pantyhose and put over the end of it and just let that be the filter, and it would catch the lint there in her basement. She thought it was a nice thing to humidify her basement for. No way. Is there a problem with that? Electric heat. There's way too much humidity in your house. Is it against cold? Probably, yeah.

If it was an electric one, it's not as big a deal. If it was a gas one, then you've got some byproducts of combustion. Wyatt, I've got a question for you. When you and Devin were in Alaska for how many days were you two together? Well, 14, 12, 14. It was quite a while. How much lint do you think collected in Devin's dryer vent day after day when he finally had to clean that thing out? Belly button? Yeah. You guys are disgusting. That's how I check the wind. Plus, if you ever need to light a fire, you've got a fire starter. It's a great kindling. Mix it with Vaseline. It'll burn for two hours. Hey, Clint, we've got a business for you, and we're not even going to charge you for this idea. But you could go clean people's dryer vents and then keep the lint.

Make a fire starting business? And then do a fire starting business. Just burn. Yeah. So, Clint, is a leaf blower a good way to clean out your dryer vents?

Huh? Most people don't. Most people don't use a positive pressure. They usually use a negative pressure. So you suck from the outside? They'll suck from one side or the other. They'll usually run a brush down it, and then they'll kind of vacuum it out as it's an acid shape that pulls it back out. Well, this might be a good idea for you because we could even – Wyatt. Wyatt, you could – We could make leaf blowers and then put labeling on them that says dryer vent cleaners and sell double. You know what I mean? For household use. A whole new tool. That's right. A whole new tool, but double the same tool. The same tool with new labeling. Get a late-night TV promo spot. Clint. Infomercial. Anything we're talking about make sense? Are you seeing any dollars and cents there? You guys know you're talking about your rear end. That's typical of what you guys do. Okay.

Well, you heard it from the climate doctor. It is a Friday afternoon around here. Clint, your business is the climate doctor, right? Yep. That's my business. All right. Well, we want 10%. Anybody wants a dryer vent cleaned? Why? Give Clint a call. I don't clean dryer vents. Okay. Well, you need to. There's a service right there. I don't want to mess with your dryer vents at all. You need to. You don't like money? Hey, sir.

I never knew a guy hates money. You can usually call a lot of these cleaning companies. They'll have that can go clean your duct work. It's the same guys usually clean the duct work in your house. Disaster cleanup stuff. Some of those guys will do it, too. Hazard. Yeah. Devin's would have been a hazard. I mean, I could do it. When you guys need help, I got the tools. I have the know-how. The knowledge. Email Devin. So Devin's to side hustle. I'm in this room. In this room. Devin, is there still a Coors Light thing for the support down there? I let it ride. Why wouldn't you pull it out? If the dryer vent was plugged up and the dryer vent was accessible, I would just tear the dryer vent out and just run a whole new dryer vent. I thought about that. It was accessible. If it wasn't accessible, then you can try to figure out how to clean it and vacuum it out. Do it, Janky.

Some kind of a chimney sweep type thing. You could put a whole pipe through there and then put the elbow on it where it comes into your laundry room. Clint, what do you think about all this? I know you follow the Colorado stuff pretty close. I mean, what do you think about all this stuff that's going down with some of these state agencies and maybe even the Utah tag numbers, things like that? There's lots of discussion. That's a lot of things. Hey, I'm just trying to. You're welcome. I'm trying to get you off the climate doctor stuff. Good. What about the exotic infestation in Texas? Just throw another state in, Jason. I don't know. There is a problem. You don't even have to. They tell me you kill an elk down there. You don't even have to harvest the meat. Okay. Colorado. That is correct. All right. Go ahead, Clint.

Colorado sounds like they're being a little more reasonable and coming back to reality, and they're going to do some realistic things. They're talking about moving the season structure back to the old dates. That could be a good thing for mule deer. I think it'd be good. Too little, too late. I think, but it's a good thing. They also realize that as they try to redo their point system to handle the issue of point creep and stuff, that there's no good answers to any of that. And the more they can provide some opportunity for a random draw for people, I think that's a good thing. Similar to what the Utah is. But you don't want to tell somebody from Colorado that they're just going to basically do the Utah system because they think that their system's awesome and they're the best. How about a hybrid between Utah and Wyoming? Let's just call it. Then they can call it their own.

Yeah, call it whatever they want. Yeah, do a different percentage. I mean, they have a hybrid draw right now, but if you're a non-resident, it doesn't really do anything for you. No. It's kind of in their method of, I can't explain it to you how it works. I mean, they can't even explain it. And if it's that complicated on how you explain how it works, it means no non-resident tags in a slim chance for a few other people that are residents. And then go try to explain the weighted point system for Mooseheep and Goat. Oh, yeah. That one's even worse. Yeah. All these numbers. Divide. Plus one. Carry a random number and divide by the number of weighted points. Plus one and carry the two. Lift the leg and pray.

I don't know. Whatever. However you feel lucky. They're looking to change some stuff there. I think it's good. I mean, I don't know if you have to change everything just to change everything. No. We talked about that. There's a lot of things that aren't really that broke. Kind of like we talked a little bit about that and maybe Utah and the deer. I don't know if there's a. Did you look at the deer tag numbers? All tag numbers, basically. I did. Utah, it looks like they're kind of going more to the kill them all. Well, I mean, if you kill all the bucks, you definitely get more fawns, right? Well, yeah. Well, I guess if there's less bucks in the landscape, that means there's less competition for those does for whatever limited food, I guess. I don't know what they're. You think there's. Are you buying it? Are you drinking all this? I don't think.

I don't think habitat's the limiting factor on Utah. If it is, that might have some merit in places. If it is. If it is. From a biology standpoint. Or say we were at a carrying capacity. Maybe it makes sense, right? Yeah. Well, I don't think we're at carrying capacity anywhere in Utah right now. Heck no. Like there's an overabundance down here in southern Utah, General? No. I think that there's. I got a lot of stuff I could say, but. Why are you holding back on a Friday? Well, let's get to know the real Clint Linsman. Let's peel back the onion. From a biology standpoint, if you want to make the argument we want to issue more tags, go ahead and issue tags, clear down to, you know, five bucks per hundred does. Why don't we just have OTC? Then do it that way. Clint, I know how to increase the numbers in Wyoming because we got these winter kills. Let's just kill all the bucks, all right?

Let's just kill all the bucks. Well, if you want to increase your buck the doe ratio, the easiest thing to do is just kill the does. We don't want it. We want less bucks per hundred does.

All right. So what's your answer? Well, I think it's what it's always been. When, when you have a mild winter and you have lots of rain, the deer herds do really good. And other than that. Yeah. There's not a whole lot you can do. I mean, pray for rain. Pray for rain. Hard winter. And we've been in a rain and a winter that doesn't kill everything. That's really the best, the only two management things we have. I do think in some units you can kill more predators. I think that's a good thing. In fact, I think you guys have been doing a little bit of, you guys have been doing a little predator control. I like predator control. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a fan. Yeah. I'll, I'll do my part when I, when and where I can. Yeah. In fact, as you were talking to me, I was doing some stuff on Google Earth right here, looking to find. What are you doing? I'm looking for rock out croppings. Yes.

That's a good word for it right there.

Just Clint the trap. Glassing purchase or what type of? No, not, not for glassing. Okay. So, so normal people work Monday through Friday. Clint, he's, he's on Google Earth. I knew it. I told you guys it's spring break, dude. Yeah. Last week you were on a cruise. When does it end Clint? Summertime. I didn't know we're going to go spring break. Right now is that period of time that your furnace doesn't kick it on. Your AC is not on. People don't really need Clint right now. They don't. You wait till June 1st. This is when he needs to start his service and start cleaning out vents. Well, yeah, but it's also when he goes on vacation. I don't want to talk about cleaning out vents. That's just boring. Yeah. So, so June 1st, when the first 90 degrees hits, that's when they call Clint. Oh, my AC's not kicking on. I got a problem. Can't get there fast enough. That's right. All right.

So how's, how's, how's, how's the Google Earth thing going? Nope. It's, it's, I don't know. It's having some promise. Yeah. We're looking. I'm learning some new stuff.

I like it. I've got to be careful what I say here too, because I make lots of, I can make lots of enemies. Yeah. Really fast. I mean, they're, they're your enemies. We have your, we have your back. I don't like predators. I don't like predators and they all need to die. Okay. We have your back. Lions too? I'm a predator, but they're, they're my competition. Okay. I want to eliminate my competition. You're a true red blooded American.

All right. You got anything else for us, Clint?

I don't know if I got anything. Do you want to tell the truth, what you're really working on? No, I don't want to tell the truth. All right. I've got some, people might listen to this thing. I already got enough people mad at me. All right, guy. Well. Politics or whatever. I don't know if my mouth. I seem to get in trouble, so, but I'm just kind of waiting for some draws to come out. I'm excited. I think I might have some shots of some, I'm, I'm thinking outside the box on lots of stuff. You got to. I'm kind of giving up on mule deer lately. I mean, mule deer is still my number one thing. I love mule deer, but I think I'm beating my head up against the wall to find big bucks these days. I don't know why people hate big bucks. Everybody seems to hate big bucks. Jeez. It's crazy. Tough, tough. Bronson and I talk about it all the time. Just tough right now.

And I feel like there's a lot of non-resident hate going on out there still. Oh, yeah. That's still kind of, well, did you see the Utah? Utah jumped into that non-resident shed hunting. I mean, geez. Every other state, Nevada, Colorado, Wyoming, always, you know, I guess just turn around as fair play. Is that what the saying is? Now we're making it to where they can't, they're going to take a back seat to residents and shed hunt. Yeah. I mean, it's. Do not come. Do not come. Kind of crazy. I don't think a lot of people have realized that a lot of people, when they get to where they get older and they're going to retire, they pick a state to move to where they're going to have the best resident hunting opportunities that are available to them. We have guys going state to state to state buying houses. They're not just renting. They're sitting down, chilling out.

It's, I mean, I've looked at relocating to another state. I mean, that's a topic for a whole nother podcast. That is. But your point is Utah is not the best state. That's your point if you're looking at other states. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not. I like Wyoming, New Mexico, and Idaho, but I love Nevada. But, well, there's still a lot of stuff to hunt up there in Idaho. Elk tags are still like a couple in your lifetime in Nevada as a resident. Yeah. And they're good ones. I think you're too late for Idaho. I think that. California. The problem with Idaho is they're too slow to react to the change. And I think they're at a point now where they need to start switching to limited on everything. They can't just do this over the counter everywhere. They have a big population influx coming there just like we do in Utah. There's too many people moving in there. Yeah. Same thing here.

So you're going to go to Colorado, Clint? Oh, geez. I mean, I thought about Colorado. It's a little easier to get. I don't know. I can't think of any positives. I can't think of any positives. That's the main reason I wouldn't move there. We already get to go hunt there every year, so it's not like they're giving you that, you know? Yeah. The residents are going to get a little bit better here sooner or later. Just because of all the changes they're making. I mean, they're grabbing bigger pieces than that. Starting this year. And I get it. It's their right. Yeah. It's their right to do it. We've been getting a good shake at 35%. We've been good. Yeah, it's been good. And even at 25%. It's still way fair. I'm not going to complain. Way fair. I mean, you can do whatever on there. But to think that non-residents are destroying hunting in Colorado a lot, that's a little bit of a stretch.

Every state thinks every non-resident is destroying their state, and it ain't true. Yeah. Do they really think that cutting a couple hundred tags out of Region G and H in Wyoming is going to save that herd up there? No. All the reports say they should give more tags. That's right. Make room for does and babies. Right? It's true. It's true. They're being out-competed. What about New Mexico? Do you not like New Mexico? Why isn't that on your list? I love that place. New Mexico, it's draw. It's all random draw. There's no points. And I just can't ever seem to. There's only a place for an AC company. There's no place for heating in AC. Well, New Mexico is kind of a liberal place when it boils down to it. He's talking about retirement. So work doesn't enter into his decision. So where are you going? I'm Utah boy for now. Probably be forever. I don't know.

I've thought about moving to Wyoming a few times. I got family up there, and I like some of the stuff that they're doing up there. I mean, with the over-the-counter residents, elk and deer both, you could do good. I mean, the deer took a big hit this last one. But I like Colorado, too.

Colorado. There's a few places in Colorado I really like that I wouldn't mind having a house and living there. Gunnison? You've already got some. You already bought dirt. I love Gunnison. You already got a little dirt over there, don't you? I love Gunnison. It's a good place. All right, Guy. Well, I can tell the information's getting harder to drag out of you. Well, I don't have a whole lot to give, you know. That's not true. We appreciate your confirmation on the shimming techniques of dryer vents, though. It was very, very important to you. It's nice to know he'd do it on his own house, Devin. Does that make you feel better? A little bit. It'd be a Mountain Dew box, but it's, you know. I thought you were going to ask me how often you should change your filter, and I'll tell you like every four to six weeks you should change your filter. Four to six weeks? On your furnace. Really?

Ask me how often I change my filter. How often? Four months? Well, as soon as my system ices up and breaks down. That's exactly what we do. That's what most people do. The first time your AC kicks on of the year, you realize I should have been changing my filter. Filter all winter. Yeah, that's the way it goes. But when I'm changing my people's filter, the last thing I want to do is change my own filter on my own house when I get home. No. All right. Well, have a good weekend. Enjoy that nice 60 to 70 degree weather where nobody needs heat or AC. It's going to come fast, Quint, so you better get all your fun in, vacays, and your Google Earth surfing. Whatever. All your commission meetings. You have some of those meetings to catch up on, by the way. They're trying to do away with the Nevada Wildlife Board today. Go check on that. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'll send you an email. Go check on that.

Yeah, send me a link. I'll go take a look at that one. We'll get a chance, too. All right. All right. See you later. Talk to you later. All right, bye. By the way, if you guys got eight hours that you don't want back or you need something to do over the weekend, go sit down and listen to all the Wyoming presentations statewide. Is that for the biologists and stuff? Yeah. Pretty good. You've got to glean through some periods of monotony in certain places. Lots of notes, kind of like my college days. I filled a bunch of notebooks, way full of notes. It's awesome. A lot of buck to doe, fawn to doe, death, destruction, percent. Genetics. Percent dead fawn or does, collar does are dead. A lot of talk like that from last year's winners and all that. Very informative. This is, of course, leading up to their permit setting commission meeting coming up here in like 10 days. So, anyway. Anyway.

I like it. Yeah, there's a lot of that going on. So, we came out with some Utah Tech numbers, right? Kind of exciting. It's always exciting, right, Pollock? Oh, yeah. Well, it is. It's part of the reason why they moved Utah application period later is this very reason. You can actually, you know, they changed the plug and play feature online, which is nice, too. You don't have to withdraw and reapply. You can just change a unit. But with the deadline being what? 25th? Am I right? 25th, up top of my head, Utah. Yeah, I believe so. 25th of April. Yeah, April 25th. You know, you're able to go online. I've actually had a lot of people hit me, text me people at 26, 28, 30 points noticing non-resident tag numbers in certain hunts that have gone from one to two. And that means something. That's a big deal. And it's not that it's set in stone.

We've got a commission meeting coming up that will deal with that. But in large part, they like to meet in the middle. Yeah. Well, unlimited entry and once in a lifetime, they don't change a lot. A lot of those are based off of teeth data. There's a lot of other changes. I went through a bunch of those and wrote down just a lot of changes. And there was a lot of extra tags this year. It's just generally tags one of them. A lot being one of them. Yes. Just a lot being there's going to be a max point. Preference point tags. Yeah. It's pretty sad. And if you're a resident, it factors in here and there, too. Yeah, it does. On certain hunts. It's not a lot of change usually in limited entry deer elk and once in a lifetime from one year to the next. They don't double units. Tag divers seem to include the expo tags. It's hard to know, you know. All right.

But anyway, it's all on there online for you to. So what was your initial impression, Bronson? Regarding the limited entry or what? Yeah. Overall tag numbers. I mean, general tag numbers, limited entry tag numbers. I would say everything on limited entry and once in a lifetime was pretty straightforward. Stuff that had increases. Not a lot of grief there. Once in a lifetime world had to do with either, you know, I know they saw they're cutting some Wasatch moose tags. There wasn't a lot of cutting, but well, buffalo. Buffalo. Buffalo was huge. Mainly the cow tags. They slashed them from like 40 to 50 down to like 10 or 15 total. So numbers are obviously getting within the management objectives. Some of the sheep units went up and down here and there based on the units that they flew. They cut some goat tags. Yeah. A little bit of that.

Generally a little bit more deer and generally a little bit more elk because we saw last year the big switch to the season structure, you know, the way it was. But, you know, you dice the pie up into different pieces now. So a lot of people, most non-residents, I guess, have somewhat complained that you just took away maximum point tags, which in a lot of ways they did, you know, in the key units, Erty Rifle, Erty Muzzle. But the biggest stuff was obviously the southern region general deer tags where, I mean, we always seem to have the crosshair on southern Utah because they're big public land units. And, of course, you've got even probably more pressure that central and northern Utah got crushed last year. There's no place to send hunters. You can't just increase tags up there anymore. Yeah.

So I think we're a little aggressive, if I was to use one word, to describe some of those units down south. They're a little bit aggressive for one-year jumps in anticipation of a good two-point crop because that's exactly, let's make no mistake about it, that's exactly what we're talking about. Well, I think, too, they're talking about the trend, meaning a three-year average, you know, and if it's trending up or it's above and beyond, you know, the management objective, then fine. You know, there's some tags that are, you know, maybe a warranted increases here and there, but they're really aggressive and not like universal across the board. You'll have, you know, percentage-wise if you did, let's say, Dutton, Southwest Desert, Zion, you know, Pine Valley, things like that. Beaver, Boulder. Not like uniform. Transform. Yeah. Versus the San Juanabajo.

Throwing a San Juanabajo that's been over 20, you know, last couple years, three-year average. And we just maintain. And have nothing change. So there's not consistency sometimes. And I know that they'll have a rationale or at least explain a rationale, but it's really hard to follow because we're always talking about the same units, always, in the southern end of the state. Well, and I think a lot of times they throw out, you know, higher numbers knowing that we'll settle in the middle somewhere. So that's kind of frustrating, too, is like put your best foot forward, you know? But anyway, then there's a large part of the public out there. Josh, you're aware of all this. I mean, you know, of course we all heard it. You know, Wyatt, Devin. I mean, a large part of the public, they want fork and horns in the back of the truck.

So they think that's the best management plan is to smash them before a car gets them or predators get them. Right? Yeah. Some people. I'd say it's kind of funny. I've noticed a little bit. A few years ago, there were a lot of people saying, I'd wait four or five years if it was good. A lot of people that are already past that point, they want a deer tag now. Yeah. The same people that said, I want more quality on the survey, are like, no. I actually want a deer tag now. So it's a hard, I don't know. I don't know what you do. Well, we added up the Colorado deer tags, and it was, you know, in the 80s, 80-something thousand for buck and doe, you know, combined and whatnot. It was just a real rough figure. We can go through and get the exact figure, but Utah is dang close if you add everything together, does, bucks, whatever, everything. Not that far different.

And they're, like, quite a bit different. State, habitat, populations, things like that. Moisture, productive summary, a lot of differences. But anyway, it feels like a rinse and repeat of last year, personally. There was a lot. And I'm not saying, you know, another year of, obviously, more favorable weather. More favorable in the fact that the winter was not as harsh and long. Really. We had no winter, mostly until January, which was perfect. And it's been warmer and wetter than normal. We've had a lot of moisture. So it was great.

Still have a hard time just saying, hey, we're going to have a big two-point crop this year. Let's bump tags considerably. Yeah. No problem with that. And you've got other states wanting to save every two-point, like Wyoming. Four-point or better after hard winters. And they were three-point or better. They were three-point last year, going to four-point this year. They literally do not want any yearning. They want to try to save every yearning. And I understand. And these are general season units there. And I understand you can't call one state's general season unit the same as another state. You know, you can't necessarily compare that. There's differences, differences in winters. What I think is crazy is we had these heavy discussions. There were heavy, heavy discussions amongst the state, the RAC meetings, things like that. Last year. And on our podcast. And 14 other places.

It was very aggressive. And we come out with the fact that we need such monumental change. We need single-strand bows. We need, you know, we need to restrict rifles and all kinds of methods of take. I mean, Boulder had the most restrictive potential restrictions out there. Single-strand bows, you know. Five-day seasons. Five-day seasons. The rifles were like 30-30 type rifles. What else?

Extreme limitations on muzzleloaders. And then we end up with going from 1,200 tags to 2,000 tags the next year. You know what I mean? So, last year we were under threat of, you know, the management was going to be changed altogether. What's what? Because nothing was working to now we're going to go ahead and throw out double the tags. Those were division recommendations. And those were division recommendations. Now the same division comes back with. It didn't pass. It didn't pass. Yeah, so we get to use compound bows and everything, nothing changed. And then we go from 1,200 to 2,000 overnight. Pretty mixed messages. Yeah. So, I just think, I think now, you know, there was a lot of people that were out there to cut division jobs and change, you know, change things so drastically to make a difference. And then they just come back with more of the same, I guess.

It's just, you know, kind of, I don't know, kind of hard, honestly. And so, who knows where it's all going to land. You know, at some point you just kind of give up and call it a day. And whatever they do, they do. That's what I feel. Yeah. It feels like you just, you get browbeat every year and you're talking about the same thing. I should, anyway. But, it's obvious.

It's obvious that there's a little bit different perception. I guess my perception is different than others. And that a good fawn crop and a good crop of two points this year that you anticipate is going to be hitting the ground and frolicking from August to October during the hunts, it's far from a reason to jack tags up this year. Well, and that's the thing, too. They say that that population is like 50% survival. Those deer. From fall fawns, say November, December, when they're roughly six months old, until they're the next year. Either, I don't know. Being able to be hunted, basically, two points. They're the most vulnerable. They're naive. They get kicked off their mama in June, July, or earlier, before the mom fawns again. Yeah. And they're kicking them off, ditching them. So, there's a lot. You know, they're. So, it's hard.

There's a lot of folks that think that we should just kill them. You know, they're going to die anyway. So, we should just set a higher level. But if they're dead, don't you think the remaining 50% are going to be harped on pretty good? That's what I. You know what I mean? Like, if they don't have anything to eat because we killed them, then do you think they're just going to not eat? No, they're going to go kill the other 50%. That's what I worry about is if you overharvest that population more than natural. I mean, it's not Disney. It's nature. And it's unfortunate that those deer die. There's nothing you can do about it other than apparently kill a lot more predators and block off some highways because that's some of the leading mortality causes of them. So, let's look at why that population is dying so frequently compared to any other deer and let's try and help them.

But now, instead of just increasing tags to kill them, well, what if you kill 50% of the 50% that we're going to live? I don't know. I'm not saying you're going to get 0%. But on some years when you're already extremely down in your fawn production and you only have 50% of the deer that lived from the time they were 0 to 6 months to begin with, and then another 50%, it's just, I don't know. It's hard for me to support wanting to kill those so much. I don't care whether a coyote eats them or whether they go home in someone's freezer. They're predators, predators, predators. And because you killed one, doesn't mean the predator is not going to eat. And we can see, and I feel like you could have significant overharvest of those deer, which led us to where we're at now. Because that's what happened from 2018 to 2020.

We had tags that didn't come down and we harvested 50% of the 50% that was left. And the drought killed 90% of them. The drought was heavier and killing a lot more. So I just feel like those numbers of bucks was down significantly. So to me, to just feel like, oh, we need to consistently kill those so that they're at a point that it's okay to where we're in single digits of deer. Because I'll contend, I don't know. I wasn't, I was alive in the 80s, but I wasn't hunting in the 80s. But I was going with my dad. But I was alive in the 90s and stuff. And it all sounds great. Like, sweet, this means I can get a deer tag every year. But I'm telling you right now, we've, all of us that are thinking that, we've lived through, I would call the heyday of my life for sure. Which was back in the, from 2013 to 20, was the heyday for mule deer hunting for me. And I've lived through that.

And I saw also when it was single digits. And you're not going to get single digit deer numbers and have numbers like that, which we remember. You're talking about single digit buck to doe. Buck to doe, yes. And you're not going to get single digit. You don't think single digit buck to doe ratios is necessarily healthy. No. Or what we should be going for. No, I don't think so. I mean, it's. When would it be healthy? Where we're at now. No, like when you're carrying capacity? Yeah. When would it be healthy? Yeah, probably. Well, if you actually cannot sustain any more deer on the landscape. Yeah, which we saw anymore. Cannot have some more. Smash your bucks to make room for fawns. But if you can't handle any more, Bronson, I contend you don't want any more fawns. If you can't handle any more, you're at capacity. That's right.

So, I mean, we're talking about something hypothetically, that if you have too many deer, bucks are in excess. It's just like if you have a 300-acre pasture and you can, that'll sustain 100 cows for three months. You don't want to fill it up with 50 bulls and 50 mama cows and babies. You don't want to do that. Your feed's going to go to bulls that are wasted. That premise, if you want to translate to landscape, is really hard to do with our current deer numbers out there. It's impossible. We're so far from that. It's not even funny. We're so far from a carrying capacity, so killing a buck doesn't necessarily feed more fawns. It doesn't grow more babies. Because we've got food that's not being eaten. I mean, that's what you're saying. Yeah. The vegetation is. And when you get to 30-plus bucks per $100, I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

And I think Dak said it on the video, on the proposal video. Right? He said it. You see that. But those are units that we've made the decision to sacrifice the overall productivity of a unit, probably, for having quality deer. And that's like 1% of our deer population in the state. And you have to have that because they talk a lot about genetics and age and stuff. And most deer are never going to make it to a $180 buck. Yeah. They won't do it. I mean, it's just like here. You've got Wyatt, who's probably the most pristine premium genetics at this table. I like where this is going. We could have every buck like Wyatt. And then we've got cactus bucks on the other end of the year. Like just. Logan. Why did I get cactus bucks? There's somebody who probably wants to shoot him. But it's kind of weird to shoot those deer. Anyway. What caused you to be a cactus buck?

I don't know what I did to Josh in the past. For a while. He packs velvet a little longer than he should. Hung out with mom. He had a high fever one day too long. He hangs out with the does. But not because he likes the does. Because he feels comfortable with the does. That's all I'm saying. Well, I'm definitely turning into a management buck at my age. Yeah. And Adam, like. I'm regressing. All you're doing is you're stopping the Fonz for me. I'm taking up space. Adam's like a big three point. He's got some big bases. He's just kind of. I'm at least four on one side though still. I ain't as good as I once was. But I'm as good once as I ever was. That's exactly right. I'm one of those bucks. I'm like 120 that just had big bases. This is a lot.

But anyway. What do you identify as, Devin? You guys pretty much took a while. I don't know. You're prime. You're a seven and a half year old buck in his prime. You don't feel prime? You pulled a hammy last night. Never mind. You've gone through it. Two hammies. A drought year? No. Not got Leander growth you normally have? I just so happened to prime early in my life. You know? I don't know. He was one of those four year old. I'm one of those. You were maxed out at four and a half? I'm one of those bucks you're like, man, wait until we see him next year. And I show up and you're like, dah. What happened to him? Should have killed him last year. Pretty much the same. He must have an abscess too. He's got something wrong. Should have killed him last year. Somebody shot. But that's the thing. So when you have, because of that, that's why buck to doe ratios,

you have to run them so high on some of those units. It's because you want more bucks trying to get to that trophy quality, the 180 plus, whatever. Yeah. Five plus year old average. Yeah. Harvest. Yes. Not just alive on the landscape, but. Yeah. An actual harvest. Bucks that people harvest. Because there are seven to nine year old deer, frankly, that people never shoot on the Henrys or Ponsagont. They don't want. They're not superior antler wise. And so they're old. But to get a five year old plus average, that's tough. That is kind of tough. And so it's on our general season units. It's not even something to talk about. No. It's not even. But coming off the drought, we had those three years of drought. We're region G. You have no deer. They want to grow deer numbers. Well, they got crushed enough. The science would say kill bucks. Yeah.

But we're talking, your population is so low, it doesn't work. Yeah. There's so much left. When I remember, when I was a biologist out here, like a long peril in front, and you guys probably remember it too, there at one point, it was like we were killing. And I saw it. We would go do range transects and stuff. And there were so many deer. But because that was a limiting factor for that population, so many deer would come down to this little stretch. And man, they were killing 200 to 300 does. They were transplanting them there for a few years, and you couldn't get ahead of it. And that was back in those heydays I was talking about, 2013 through 17, whatever. And yeah, when you get into those type of situations, potentially, yeah, you're running into those kind of things. So right now, you drive that, and there's a couple hundred heads, you know. And so it's not even a thing to wear.

So I don't know. I guess that's all I could say is you think it's exciting. Yeah, don't take one segment of biological data and extrapolate it. And just like don't extrapolate it to all the other states either. There's a lot of different factors. You know, you're talking about New Mexico mule deer that, you know, habitat-wise, winter range-wise, a lot of them live in the same place 365 days of the year down there. You know what I mean? And so you're just – it's hard to extrapolate everything, but it's also don't pick and choose the stuff that sounds great to try to just say, hey, the more you kill, the more you stimulate a herd. Yeah. That isn't right. You can't just say that universally. And I mean your common sense. Like your common sense tells you that. Well, your common sense leads you to believe that. If that's the way you're predisposed to want to believe.

If you want to believe that, you can talk yourself into believing that that's actually true. And to me, if people thinking that deer hunting is hard right now and it sucks, wait until we get to single-digit buck-to-dill ratios. You get to single-digit buck-to-dill ratios. Is anybody happy? No. And how many of those six to nine bucks per hunter have more than two points probably? Yeah. Like half of those are yearly. And if you're at carrying capacity, do you need more fawns? Yeah. I mean, do you even want more? No. No, you're killing does. Yeah. You know what I mean? You've got doe hunts going. You have to have doe hunts. So I don't know. They – you know, and a lot of people will say, well, that's – you know, it's okay because we just need to do it. In the heyday, we had single-digit buck populations. But hunting is so different now than what it was back then.

But we have had record fawn weights. We've had record fawn weights, and we're not in the single digits. Yeah. You know what I mean? So how is this happening? Where are the bucks that are out competing these fawns? These fawns should be skin and bones if that's really happening. Well, and we also had, for all intents and purposes, no elk in Utah in the quote heyday. And I'm not talking about your heyday, Josh. I'm talking about earlier. The real heyday of Utah, 50s, 50s, 70s. 50s, 70s, yep. I mean, we didn't have any. We didn't have any competition. You guys think about those hunters that were then. And I even look at myself now, they didn't have trail cameras. When would they go hunt? They would throw their orange out the night before the hunt. And take your kids out of school. Yeah. It was a school holiday. Harvest. But I just mean, it wasn't like the pressure that we do now.

We hunt these deer 365 now. They didn't back then. They would load up the truck. And it was a big ordeal. Like, the hunt was a big thing. Nobody even shed hunted. But, yeah. Like, it wasn't a big. Now we're shed hunting. We're running trail cameras. All this kind of stuff. Like, hunting is completely different now to where it's just. You can't even really compare those days. It's so different. You can't even compare it. It's like the goat debate.

Michael, Kobe, LeBron. I mean, you can't compare errors from 10 to 15 years prior and just keep doing it the rest of your life. We all have opinions, and I have mine.

Anyway. Anyway. I lived through the Jordan era. It's hard for me to put anybody above him. And I wasn't even a Bulls fan. I'm a Lakers fan. Do you believe he pushed off a Brian? Come on. I just wonder it. That was a flop. Okay. There you have it. All right. I'm just curious.

And I'm not a Jazz fan, either.

Anyway. Well, that's good. Get out. There's a lot of public processes. Oh, yeah. Get out and be heard. Get out and be heard. Be part of the process. See how it works for you. The whole process went to the Southern Rack. 90% of them, you know. 90% of the public. Last year. Yeah, last year. 90% as was professed by the Rack or the Commission, whoever. Go read it. Go listen to it. And then they walk away with tag increases. And then the board votes and they kind of meet in the middle. They still had tag increases. And so then they wonder why there's so much pushback and everybody's scared. And coming out with all these new regulations, potential regulations to make different change. And then year two, here they are. And we got legislature involved and everybody wonders why. And then we come back out and show it the public's face again. You know what I mean? Here we go. Bunch more increases.

Way more than foreign. It doesn't match San Juanabajo. Why? I'd like to know. I kind of have an idea. And then we're also dealing with boulder going from 12 to 2,000. We had extreme, extreme potential changes in weapon types and season dates. Right? We went from hunting with, you know, sinew and sticks. Yeah. Well, there's units up north in the northern end of the state. I should have brought the paper with me that they're grossly over the buck doe ratios. They're managed at 15 to 17 and they're at 25 bucks per hundred oes. But what do they know about that? They know that their populations are crap because of the winter. Okay? And I contend that we're overestimating our southern populations so far. It's not even funny. So I'm not comparing our populations to the north after their winter. But what are our populations? Nobody knows. No.

But shouldn't we be quadrupling tags up there in theory to kill those bucks as much as we can? Stimulate the doze and falls. Yeah. Shouldn't we be doing that in region G&H too? Shouldn't we be doing that? If the shoe fits. Is that what we're talking about? I'm just saying. And so it's just hard when all of this stuff's coming out and it just feels like let's just put more pressure on the young one. Let's just put more and more pressure. Southern regions, big, large public land units. And the people that are making the recommendations don't live here. We're the whipping boy. We always have a guy. So it's so frustrating. But what I find, though, is the guys in Arizona think Arizona management's terrible. And they tout amazing things for Idaho. And Idaho guys know better. Idaho residents know that Idaho could do better dealing with all the general. Wyoming, they have their issues.

We have our issues. And you're so passionate about your own state. Colorado, yeah, everywhere. You know what I mean? And Nevada, poor Nevada. I mean, they're shooting for 30 bucks per hundred does, if not 35, depending on the units. And then they deal with drought like nobody's business. You know what I mean? Driest state in the nation. So pretty awesome. A lot of fun. I mean, it's fun. We're still doing it. But Bronson. But hey, they got moose. Two moose taxes. That's right. That's my point. I was just going to bring up the moose. I'm glad you took it out of my mouth. You're talking about other species all the time. What did you end up doing in Montana for moose? And what's your future plans for elk and other things? The exciting parts of the Bronson application process. I have not applied in Montana for moose and sheep yet. I haven't. I'm still pondering deeply. I'm still lost.

I had some people throw out some ideas after the last podcast. But unfortunately, the units that they gave me were resident-only units this year. So I did not help me at all. Yeah. Those are single taggers. Well, or whatever. Sometimes you can put in for single tag sheep and moose. But they have to be outlined in their eggs. Here's your non-resident units put in for. Huh, Wyatt? So that fell on deaf ears. What did you decide? I've got until May 1st. That might be your retirement state. Get up there and get you a sure off. I like that. I will promise you. He's been working on Montana. He has elk projects like crazy. Since we're talking about moose, I'm going to give a quote. Devin, has he not been working on elk projects? Well, I haven't. He's even had members call back and offer Airbnbs, cabins. Well, what I did for elk is just, I said last time, I swung for the fence.

I don't expect to drop. I would have liked to see you more aggressive. Okay. I didn't have the right landing place, and I got a lot of bonus points. Okay? But since we're on the topic of moose. Why do we have to pull off the gloves? I would not retire anywhere for a Shivers moose. I don't care if I got a free tag just for moving there. Colorado moose are pretty special, and you've even put them up there amongst the greats. With what's going on in that state, politically, and everything else-wise. Big dogs? I wouldn't move there for anything. Okay. Tag-wise. Okay. But unlike you, the one thing that I heard this week. It's kind of like the one cool thing I heard this week. He has a sticky in his head. He has one sticky. You know what cool thing I heard this week? A neat thing, as Jason said. I've got a satellite phone for sale. I'm wanting moose more and more every day.

That was out of your list this week. Is that a problem? Is that a problem? Would you tell me what you mean by that? I did not say they replaced mule deer. I don't, but you just said- I want a big deer more than anything. Okay. But I'm wanting moose more and more every day. Okay, well- Wow, that is a passionate statement. When you look into some of these units and what can be produced, say Colorado, things like that, you do want them. You do. And when they look like an Alaskan Yukon at times, and I know they're not. I get it. But it's something to behold. It's impressive. And I don't know if maybe Wyatt and Devin's affection and addiction to moose was wearing off on me. It's possible? There's been lots of moaning going on. Yeah, there was a moose call that showed up at the office. Devin, I want you to do your best moose call. Not on the podcast. No.

He doesn't have the right implements in here. I don't. You do a great cow moan. Yeah, he does. But gotta be- What's that synthetic statement? I want to hear Wyatt at least attempt one time, because I've never heard him even try one time. Wow. So that 14 days, you had to call the whole 14 days? Yeah, he's the raker. I raked him the whole time. It's so hard. Wow.

So go to our YouTube channel if you want to hear Devin call. I burned more calories doing the little raking thing than you did.

Jason's pretty good. I hear him across the office about three times a day. Yeah. Bronson's already got me. I want to do it right now. But I'm not getting it. People will be calling me more and more every day, right? They'll be critiquing my- Quite frankly, when they're in the rut, they don't care what you sound like. If you remotely sound like you're getting mowed over. They told us up there, like, they've had chainsaws call them in before, been running chainsaws. We were packing meat, bulls were popping out of the trees because they could hear us walking on the rocks. Jeez. That's all I could figure. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? I don't know. Pretty nice. Yeah. All right. Bronson, is that all you got on your sticky note? I've got a question. I've got a couple. No. I've got a question for you.

What percentage, and this is just going to be a guess probably, but when you do your applications for the year, what percentage do you change from year to year? And what percentages? Change what? Units or adding a completely different state? No, like units included. Because you said, I've been like cooking and changing and deciding. I do Montana often because they, for moose, sheep, and goat, there's only a couple units for sheep, like, well, it used to be 482 and 680 were always parental. This year, they took out 482. So, that one I apply for, usually for sheep and moose, something different every year. Yeah. You kind of have to up there. But they tell you the units you can even put in for. So, other states, I'm a little bit, I'm a lot more consistent, but I get a lot more aggressive in a state like New Mexico this year when it's been phenomenal late winter moisture. Mm-hmm.

On elk than I do when it feels like a droughty year. I always put in for elk, but I kind of rein it in to keep it in the better trophy producing units. And I wander more in a year when it's looking like this, no question. Yeah, I think Clint said, I'm getting creative this year. So, I was just like. That's probably. How many people. Don't know what that means. You know, yeah. Don't know what that means. How creative are you getting every year? Well, and when you look at what's happened in Nevada, specifically with deer tags, I know what I want. But look at the total number of tags for my five choices. 14,000 deer tags for deer and antelope combined. Yeah, if I put in my five choices for deer, which are mostly, usually archery and muzzle order choices, there might be five tags available on all five for non-residents. Literally. They might each have one. That's what I want.

And so, I can't really force anything there. And to deviate, I don't. There's certain places like I don't want to go up in the northern part of Nevada. I just don't. I don't want to go there. Others have. That's cool. But I don't. There's some people that won't veer from there. I like it. Then you hear of a 200-something incher killed up there and we all didn't go there. And then we go. Yeah. And then you have a 200X amount of incher in your backyard. And then you're like disgusted you weren't in your backyard. Yeah. You know, so like there's a, we get in that trench of freaking, you know, following what last year, happened last year. So, you know what I mean? It's, there's a lot of surmising and, you know, guesstimates of what's going to happen this year. And Nevada's one of those, yeah.

You get five choices and it's all fun and games and it's all exciting and you think they're all valid. And they are all valid. But the drawing odds are just astronomical. You get one to two tags in each one of those, maybe. And even if you do rifles, which I don't normally do, there's not very many tags. It's pretty, pretty tough. And that's on the heels of, of drought and cuts, which I'm all in favor of because they, they got crushed. The deer numbers are not there like they were. There's no question. So I'm not, not faulting in doubt. I'm just saying it is what it is. It's a tough. So you have to try to think of weird things. You have to think of weird things to try to get an angle to draw. And I think in wet years like this, like Utah General elevates in my mind too. Some years it's frankly hard to turn up the type of deer that I want to hunt on a Utah General.

But in those drought years, it was, it was, it was tough. Yeah. You know, but anyway. Josh, what are you going to do this year? What am I going to do? Yeah. I don't know. I'm still, I've still got applications to, to a put in for. Yeah. Boxes to check. Is this moose thing wearing off on you a little bit? Oh yeah. I'm going to go follow you guys around. I mean, these guys all control. Take your sloppy seconds somewhere. These guys, if you let them, they'll grow a heck of a waddle. All three of them have a beard. They could grow, they could grow a waddle before the hunt that would rival any bull moose. And they say that waddle is all for mating. I don't know if that works in the human world. I have never grown one. Maybe try that. Just to see. They said it. Just a neck beard. Yeah. Just braid it. Just braid it right there. Endow had a whole spill on it. A whole video.

A lot of those Alaskan ones freeze that off. Yours didn't have one. It had a big base of one, but it was gone. It froze off. Yeah. I'm going with that. Mine has like a bell. I think they call it a bell. Is that what they call it? A little tail? I'm going with a short waddle. It's cool. Are you? Yeah. Chicks dig a short waddle. Oh, geez.

Well. All right. Well. Interesting stuff. You know, Josh, you said you worked as a biologist. And I was just wondering if, Wyatt, did your hands sweat at all when he said that? Well, I know Josh worked as a biologist. How does that make you feel? It's the other part of his career that makes plans sweat. The law enforcement side? Law enforcement is where he started out. Now he makes people think I'm afraid of law enforcement. How about when he sells to his law enforcement buddies? He sells optics to those guys. Did those up, Bobby? He did sell some optics to law enforcement. We encourage all sales. We will sell to law enforcement. You're a company man. I think they call that equal opportunity sales. We'll take anybody's money. Their money's green. It may be dirty. Josh, did you treat them fair? Maybe dirty money. They got it out of somebody's pocket. But hey, it's green.

They took it in on an investigation? Out of all of our pockets. Every year. They take it out of all of our pockets. Okay. From as their wages. Nice out of fire. Yes. We help them to pay to protect and serve. Us. Well. Okay.

Yeah, we do. We do refuse the right to serve anybody, though, as well. I think so. But why it's saying we serve everybody? No. I just brought up law enforcement in today's talk. I think it's their way of giving back to us. We've helped pay their wage. They helped pay ours. As much as Wyatt squirms about, you know, fish cops and stuff. He has a criminal justice degree. Don't you find that ironic? Is it a full-on degree? I'm one class short. Whoa. Oh, my gosh. I think that's by design. Why? There's something to it. I don't know. I just think there's something to it. We should run a grammar request on him and see if that teaches us anything about why he's one class short. What's the one class you're lacking, Wyatt? Criminal profiling and you had to take a lie to test? What class are you? You don't know. I know what it is. You do? You do? What is it? It's algebra. It's algebra.

It's actually a math class. Well, you just didn't want it. You just screwed. It expired. Oh, it did. Okay. What expired? It happened to me several times. So I transferred from another college down and math expired. And you were just like. When you have a long college career like Devin and I had. And it's called a full-on career. Maybe even a lifestyle. You're going from two-year colleges to four years. We went one semester a year. It's pretty average if you have to double it. It's an eight-year program. Yes. If you're hunting, guiding, things like that. We were on. I was a non-traditional student. So was Wyatt before we even started. Yeah. All right. Anyways. As in classified. And so what? Everybody out there listening. Wyatt's palms sweat every time we leave the office. I mean, we'll go down. If you're driving down Main Street and you see a game warden truck, Wyatt's.

It's not even a game. Slinking down in his seat. I think the letters E and X on a license plate drive him crazy. I mean, it could be a waterworks guy. It could be a public utility. How about when they were out here in the parking lot getting. Oh, yeah. Waiting to get stickers. We passed the U.S. government. Government trucks everywhere. You act like that was me that was worried about it. No, why? That was 100% Archibald that stressed about it. Both of them, too. Definitely. I just wondered why the whole parking lot was full of U.S. government trucks. We almost had a red-done moment. They passed their background checks. I don't understand what the hidden. Yeah. What's hidden? What do you mean, you guys? What are you guys scared of? I'm not scared. I just said you guys see these government trucks out here. There's all the people. They protect people. They protect people.

I don't know that there's anybody out there that just likes to roll up on a game.

I mean, they're people, too, Wyatt. That's true. But, I mean, you always got 100 thoughts running through your head. Name the first one. What are your thoughts, Wyatt? Let's go through the day in the life of Wyatt. Let's don't do 100. Let's do the first three thoughts. Little things like, oh, did I turn around too far off the pavement right there? Okay, that's extreme. What do you really think? Is there a plug in this shotgun? Are all my trailer lights on? Do I have a turkey beard laying around in this truck? What are they going to try to pin on me?

Did the chicken breast that I ate at MoBeta is actually a grouse that was out of season? Or it's like Devin. What are they fishing for? I mean, he's always fishing. Yeah, I always have a fishing license. What are they fishing in this conversation for? What are they trying to get out of me? Devin, you've had some interactions. Yeah. Are they usually positive or negative? Well, mostly positive. You think they're positive because it's like, oh, this guy's really nice. It's like he wants to be my friend. He's really helping me out. Then what happens? See him a couple days later and he's not as nice. How about four months later? Not as nice.

Josh? Wait a minute. So, Josh, you can tell us, inform us from the other side of things, right? Like, it always seems like you could do your law enforcement job and be nice once in a while. You could. So, why does it seem like? They are nice. I knew Devin. I don't know. They are nice. I know some of those guys. There are some. There are some that were maybe too nice. If you just go by the percentages, I think there's some. Here's the thing. I'll tell you exactly what it is because you start out predominantly. There are some that just have an axe to grind and they just start out that way. That's just people. That's why they went into law enforcement. Yeah, that's just people in general. Personality. Right. And they have certain goals to arrest certain people and whatever and so be it. But there's other guys most of the time, honestly.

They should be in the rainforest of Washington as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. But when you start out as a game warden, I feel like most people are pretty, like myself, I'm a trusting person. Like, I have no reason to not trust someone. If someone's telling me something, then they have a fishing license, whatever. I'm naturally going to trust them and say, okay, yeah, you do. Because why? Because I've had one my whole life. Well, and you're coming from, even though you go to post, you're coming from a civilian life. You look for the good in people for the most part. That's kind of how a lot of people have changed you. I feel like you – Oh, 100%. I think you look at everybody as a criminal. Because at some point when you get lied to so much, like people straight up bold-faced lie to you to your face. It's like, yeah, you know, I just left my license at home.

And then you're like, all right, here's your warning. Give me your date of birth and whatever. Here's your warning or whatever. Yeah, so you write it down and you go back and check them and they haven't had a fishing license in 16 years. You get kind of pissed off. And that happens over and over and over and over. Yeah, and so you're like, fine, it's easier to just write a ticket and say have a nice ticket. And so then you meet Wyatt and you say, Wyatt, do you mind if I search a vehicle? Yeah. And Wyatt said, you can go get bent. Okay? And then you automatically think what? Yeah. You think he has something to hide, right? He's got an unquivered arrow somewhere in this house. He's got an unquivered arrow. He's got a shell in the chamber. Or in the chamber. Maybe a little baby grouse alive clicking around back there in the backseat. A baby grouse captive in the backseat? I mean, wow.

I don't know what turns his crank. Are these things you've done in your life? Caught baby grouse. I don't know. May have ate one on my honeymoon. And so anyway, it's top of mind. Okay. And that's what you're thinking, right? Yeah. So you just don't know. Anyway. Or like me, I get pulled over for not having a license plate life, right? Yeah. My license plate light is out. Might have had mud. Yeah. And continues to grind me out. Yeah. Because you're out there in the middle of nowhere. It's dark. It's the middle of the night. And I've compromised safety because my license plate light's out. That's true. But it gives him a reason to pull everybody over. Not just me. Everybody. And I like that. He should be checking things out. Making sure I don't have blood dripping from my tailgate or something like that. You know? But anyway. But back to Wyatt. So we go to lunch. Why am I the subject?

Because we go to lunch. And Bronson, tell me. What? We can go to lunch. And I'd say on average he can spot no less than 10 trucks to and from. Law enforcement officers. That's what he says they are. I don't know. Any government workers of some sort, he can detect them before anybody else. Well, he has the eye. Do you remember that time you talked to that guy on the plane you figured was a U.S. Marshal? He was. He was an air marshal. He sniffed it out. Did you sniff it out? Well, he was the whatever, the one guy that's on every plane? The one guy that was on the plane, yeah. Did he admit to that? No, he never really kind of admitted to it. He hinted around it in a way. But Wyatt knew. I'm hearing a work capacity. Well, the guy gets on a plane with nothing. Does he have a bulge? And they start talking to him where he's coming from or where he's going.

He's going back to the same place we just came from, just riding the plane. You're automatically thinking. Salt Lake to Dallas, Dallas to Salt Lake. Salt Lake to Dallas, Dallas to Salt Lake. That always cracks me up. Wyatt has got a special knack for this. I'm telling you. They should have waived the freaking algebra course. Yes. If they know what's best for them. I mean, who cares about Algebra? Now I feel like I'm probably going to be one of those targets that you guys talked about. You are. I probably brought up. And thanks to this podcast. Wyatt, you're on list. Well, thanks to this podcast. You were on list, too, until you maybe blocked them. Oh, yeah. So, okay. Let's talk about who. Okay, fine. If we're going to talk about that, then I've got some other sticky notes. How about this one when we're down at SHOT Show? How about that one? Which one? Remember that. Oh, yeah.

How about that? That was the funniest thing. We're looking around at flashlights. We're looking at SHOT Show. Little LED, awesome LED flashlights. We're looking around, and these are amazing. These will literally, ask Devin, blind you if you get shot in the eye with these lights. And this same brand, we had a guy that had a headlamp outfitter. I'd already mentioned something to you. Yeah, and he had a headlamp, and he would put a spotlight on these coyotes and couldn't see them and turned his headlamp on and freaking lit up five coyotes. And you were talking about that. And I was talking about... And then we see them. I was talking about this guy had a headlamp, and he spotlighted five coyotes. Yeah. Out of nowhere. I mean, this guy's... Well, we're talking about spotlighting. This guy's my buddy. And he's fallen around, and I look at his badge.

He was in the middle of all our conversation. And he's a normal civilian. And he won't leave my side. And I won't rat out the state here. Oh, it was New Mexico. Game and Fish. I just did.

And, yeah. And he has been recording stuff for probably the last ten minutes about how this can light up the night. Yes. And wonder why these people are so interested. I want a wazoo headlamp. New Mexico Game and Fish sent him down there to pick up a new holster, some new fancy holster that he was supposed to go down. And he still... And he runs into a bunch of Utah... Just like Wyatt. Utah arts down there. He was born for it. This guy was born for it. It doesn't matter if he's on the clock or not. He was working. He was acting like he was getting a drink of water. Like, he would not... We couldn't shake him. We could not shake him. I even told you when we were sitting there, I tried to avoid the lights because I had just had some LASIK. And I didn't want to get blinded. So, I'm sitting there. And I said, why is that guy standing so close to Adam? Yes. Like, he's just hovering.

I looked at his badge and it became crystal. It was odd. It was odd. It was pretty funny. Yeah. So, yeah. The other day, I was on my Instagram and I noticed that the UDWR underscore investigations was following me. Yeah. And following up... Like physically or on social media? On social media. Okay. Right? And they do a lot of social media work, right? Somebody... There's... Yeah, probably both. It's part of it. Anyway, so then I'm like... It made Jason really nervous. For no reason. I don't like it. How does this happen? They're following like 70 people. Why me? I don't know. I wouldn't have liked it either. Anyone in the world could make that page. You don't know if it's legit. Okay. But there's people that are following that page that are pretty legit. Yeah, that's true. And so then I'm like... It looked pretty legit. It did.

And I was like, well, there's certain people that are following it that... Why would that... I probably need to delete and block. Maybe there are certain people that are investigating the real page owner. That's right. Okay. So, see, this is where Wyatt comes in. He's thinking way outside the box that I haven't gotten there. He's four steps ahead of us. Yeah. Oh, he probably knows who owns the page. We already know. Wyatt can find people... Wyatt has their username and password. He knows how to get into the page. No. Wyatt's been hired to find hecklers. I don't understand why. And he succeeds. Why would they ever make a page for that, though? Why? Yeah, why don't they just be the 16-year-old little girl pages that they probably already are that you don't suspect that they're following you? It wasn't the fact that it does appear to be a fake, right?

The investigations aren't going to say we're investigations. It looked... But it was the people that were associated with it that just made me sweat a little. You mean other known criminals that they were following? Don't like surprises. What are they doing? I want to know. Why do they make you sweat exactly? I have questions. The unknown. It's like what you're saying. Like, all of a sudden, they're like, I don't know. Wyatt, why do we ask these questions? Did that Snickers wrapper blow out of your truck out there at Mile Market 52? I know that's an extreme example. I know that's an extreme... Did that arrow just fall out of your quiver? Maybe. It's rattling back in the back of my truck. But when you get pulled over for license plate light, it bothers a guy. And you think that's small, but then that leads to whatever, some other thing, janky thing, that you don't know. Whatever.

Could be a salamander season in progress. I don't know. What you don't know, you don't know. Wow.

Just saying. All of a sudden, we've got amphibian seasons going on. It's the exact same concept as when you get pulled over. I don't know. If you're not a bad guy, you get a little nervous. Oh, yeah. Well, you get nervous, but then you're also like, why did you... If you aren't nervous, that makes me nervous. Yeah. Because most people, when you pull them over, like, one time I got pulled over in North Carolina, I handed the guy my debit card when he asked me for my driver's license. And I said, I haven't been in Louisiana for very long. And you were in North Carolina. Yeah. And I was nervous because I'm like, he thought I was running. He's like, go ahead. Part of that is because you probably had a concealed weapon because it's legal out here. I didn't have anything. I was not. You were naked. Yeah. I was just a door-to-door salesman. Yes.

And I know I'm a law-abiding citizen, but I'm nervous because I'm like... Because why? I don't want to get in trouble. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't do anything wrong. And that's me. I'm just like, man, why do you give a... It's the same thing when the game warden comes up to you. This happened to us in Arizona. Nicest guy in the world. We talked to him. I talked to him for like two hours. He's awesome. Okay. Now, why should you ever talk to a game warden for two hours on your own accord? Well, he was telling us stories. We just... But anyways... But one thing leads to another. I got a little nervous. I'm like, yeah, I got my tag. I got my stuff. But you always are like, what if I couldn't log in? What if I forgot my login to show him my hunting license or whatever? Like, he's like, just do this. Something you don't know. Something. Well, yeah. Because just like that, you had your...

If you don't get nervous, you probably got problems. You're probably a bad guy. But part of it is just ignorance. You don't realize that there's something... There's some little habitat stamp you forgot. Or there's some something. And they love to... Maybe there's a quagga muscle that you don't know is on the bottom of your truck. And all of a sudden, now you're the topic of a national issue. Of manhood. I'm just saying. Tell me I'm wrong. And these people, this is the kind of stuff you're like, okay, they're so irrational. If they were just rational and said, I see you have a quagga muscle. I see it's been dead for 14 years. This is a problem, but it's not really a problem. Because Jason, I know you better than this. Here, let me flick it off. Let me flick it off. Okay, have a nice day. And by the way, do you want part of my ham sandwich? You know what I mean? No.

They're there to say, I see you have a quagga muscle. You know what that is? Have you heard of the invasive species act of 2014? Has this truck gone through any wet ditches? You are spreading the quagga muscle. That's why we were in, when we were in Arizona. Put your hands on the hood.

Exactly. Put your hands behind your head. But I think if you don't have those thoughts, you're... Yeah. Okay. I think it's natural. But what if you go to bed with those thoughts? You wake up with those thoughts? What thoughts? Up there down to lunch, like, Wyatt? Wyatt has these thoughts? He's like, I'm thinking about it all the time. It's the reason that Wyatt is two or three steps ahead, though. He's run every possible scenario in his head. I love it. I mean, he is. I love it. There's nothing... You can't... I don't want Wyatt. The times I've surprised Wyatt in my life... I do not want Wyatt investigating me. No. I don't. But the times I've ever said something to him that he did not know already first... I know it's on... One hand. Two fingers, probably. I can't count. I can't think of him. And then you write them down and you take them to the bank because you're so proud of yourself.

And you get ready to read them on a sticky note there and he repeats it right before you say it. Because he knows... Were you just about to say this? Usually it's just when you've seen Monster Muley's post before he has. That's generally... I don't even go on there. Wyatt is my... He is my... Source of information. That's right.

Usually it's how the morning starts. Wyatt, anything new in the world today? Well, that's the way I started this morning. Why? I mean... I came in, right? I said, what did I miss last night? Nothing. Wyatt, not a thing. And then 13 minutes later he comes up with a couple things and I'm like, I knew there was something. I love it. That's why when we were in Arizona and that game warden showed up and asked Devin for his license and Devin said, license.

You knew... I disappeared. But by the tomber in his voice you knew that was an interesting response. He was a nice guy. I enjoyed talking to him. I turned around and Josh was gone. And I had to go in my tank, get all my papers. Josh has worked for him. He knows you're not supposed to talk to him for two hours. He knows this. I'm that guy. And, you know, I've learned through the years. Like, I've never had problems with game wardens. We would go... I'd row to them and get dead heads. Or whatever. And now looking back, I'm like, man, he asked me a lot of questions. About other people. About my friends. Other people. Me. You? Before, yes. You're like, Devin didn't even know me. And he's like, what do you think about Jason? Do you know this guy? And I'm like, eventually I'm just like, man, he's... This is a full-on investigation.

I was like, this is such a cool truck. He's got radios, repeaters, you know. It wasn't... It was a straight up... Devin, can I turn on your lights? Yeah, that's me. I thought it was awesome. Can I honk the horn? Devin, can I pop your hood? An hour and a half in, I'm like... Let's check your oil, Devin. I kind of feel like I've been... You see those shows where they interrogate people for so long, they just confess.

And you're like, Kate, I did... Yeah, I know him. He's a bad guy. Like, I gotta get home. I had a turkey chasing me, and I harassed that turkey. Yeah. And so I have harassed game animals. But this turkey harassed me first. He deserved it. Yes. Yeah. I mean, pretty... I mean, and you wonder why when you go to the sheep show or something, there's people that just show up in our booth there. I did pick up a shed in Nevada when it was during the shed closure. Hey, I know you. But it was in somebody's yard. I know you. I've seen you on YouTube. It's like, oh, great. Cool. Oh, great. What did I do? Yeah, he did. What did I do? I've seen you on YouTube a couple of times. Which is fine. Was I on a two-track? And by the way, you killed a couple of bucks. Was I on a two-track that was closed the day before and I didn't know about it? I don't. Not the fire in 06. Were you in behind the fire lines?

Were you? That was... Yes, you were. 2018. Right? But those things are going through your mind. Does that mean... Which roads are closed and which ones are open? If I take a two-tracker that's not officially closed, but I'm behind a fire line, I might need to go to jail. We had a note from the Federal Forest Service of America. America! I don't know what to tell you. America! America! Now you know why. While he was getting shook down by that game warden, I was in the camp down the road. Well, my point is, I don't even know if I'm getting shook down until the smell clear. A while. Until you come home and tell us the conversation. That has happened too many times. All the while, they would have said, Wyatt, how are you doing? Wyatt would have said, none, yeah. Give it a little grunt. Collecting fossils. He would have done a bull grunt. He would have done his best moose call.

I got nothing for that. Well, all I know is I want Wyatt on my team. That's what I want to know. I do. He... He's thorough. He's well-informed. And by dang it, people like him. Oh. All right. Well, I think we've gone good enough. Yeah. We had gear to sell and all that, but I've got places to be and people to see, too. Got a Rydium satellite phone. Anybody wants one, I got one. Yeah. How about this? This is pretty cool. This outdoor pack game processing disposable kit. Good friend of ours, Corey Pritchard. I was putting it out, www.outdoor-pack.com. Really good dude. This was pretty awesome. You could custom order this with different, you know, razor, knife, you know, whether it be an Outdoor Edge or Havlon or whatever. In that pack are blades. Yeah. Whatever you choose, right? Gloves. Blades. Both elbow and hand gloves. Elbow deep. If you don't use the gutless method, you might need them.

Single-use hand sanitizer. Dude wipes. Who doesn't need a good dude wipe? I mean, you're not a dude if you don't need a dude wipe. Zip ties, you know, drop point knife blades and game pads itself. So, yeah, it's just all kind of a vacuum back, nice little tight. And if you're opening it, you know it's a good day. That's what I like about those things. Wardens are still listening. It is zip ties for properly tagging games. Okay, so Wyatt all of a sudden interjects without being prompted.

I thought he was gone. Wyatt wants to let me know he is on the up and up. Do not investigate Wyatt. He has his ducks in a row.

I've never been asked by a game board, do you have zip ties? Never asked that, Wyatt. But I like the way your head's at. That's one thing I hate the most about my pack, though, is making sure, all right, do I have a knife? Do I have blades? Do I have gloves? Do I have a zip tie to properly tag my animal? And the older you get, they used to be this. Remember Linus Jensen? He had this little thing that was like for your tag that goes in there, and there's this little pin to sign it. It does tick me off that they make you sign your tag after the kill. Like, who has a pin? And who has lead-tipped bullets anymore? Or if it's raining, snowing. So frustrating. So nice. There, another example of why Wyatt would be nervous. You're supposed to sign it after the kill, not before the kill, son. Well, I don't have a pin. Well, it's not. Well, that's an improperly tagged wildlife.

It's now a Lacey Act violation, and we're going to see where this goes. How about this? How about this? Mr. Bowles. He goes on a goose hunt where you can kill unlimited amount. Yeah. Didn't you have your plug in your gun the whole time? And I didn't kill a goose. That's right. He wouldn't take it out. I don't blame you. He's not trained, even though it was legal to in that situation. Right, Wyatt? Right, yeah. Just didn't want any questions. You're law-abiding America. Well, what if a mallard flew over? That's true. That could have, across species. I'm not sure if we're out of season. Did you have a hip stamp? I did have a hip stamp and all of the above. That's my point. Of course. And then I get a survey the other day, and it says, did you have a hip number? Well, I don't remember. I actually don't remember. I'm not a bird hunter, necessarily.

And so I'm just like, well, if I say no and I did, or if I say yes and I didn't, what am I in violation of? And it's on a simple survey, right? I mean, I don't know. How many days did you hunt? Six. But what if you were hunted seven? What if the season was six days long? Like, I feel like there's trick questions on this. How long have you been here? Oh, I've been here a week. I've been hunting a week. Oh, the season's been over four days. Interesting. Interesting. I mean, you select the date you killed, and it gives you a 12-month calendar to click buttons. Yeah. What if you actually clicked? The mouse roll? Boom. Well, you did it of your own free wheel and choice. And by the way, the last checkbox says you affirm these are accurate statements. You attest to the affirmative. Seasoning. I mean, I get tired of it. Traps. 100%. You want to talk about, I'm not going down that. Yeah. No. What?

No. Just traps. Traps. Traps. Yeah. Anyway, OutdoorPack.com, 1-800-815-6647. Really cool. Go to their website and check it out. We're not paid for this, by the way. We're not paid to talk about this. Really cool. Just a really cool product. I had outdoor edge knives. I said, I want the outdoor edge knife. It came. It was awesome. Anyway, good dude, Corey Pritchard. Proud of you. It's awesome. I hope it goes gangbusters for you. But, well, I mean, we've got some of our friends at Phonescope that want to shout out. Well, that's right. If you guys are, if you upgraded a phone or you just want the newest, we did a podcast with these guys. Logan, you can probably tell me what you know what it was, but I don't remember. Oh, was it the 300? Straight up 300. Oh, yeah. Remember, he got the 300th podcast. We'll go listen to it. It talks about the new Carbon Pro Series. You know, phones, I got mine.

I don't know if you guys all got yours. It seems like my phone was a little bit more universal than y'all's. But, anyway, mine's, I already have it. I haven't used it yet. Uniform. But it's awesome. But check them out at phonescope.com, P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. Whether you want that kit or something else, they've got all the other stuff. Pyro Putty, you can find it all on there. Speaking of Firestar, that actually does not have to come from your belly button. That's disgusting. And, Wyatt, would you use Firestar from his belly button? And, Devin, would you use Firestar? If I was laying on a riverbank freezing with hypothermia, you would do it. Start a fire. Would you dive into his belly button again? I would harvest. Harvest? It's kind of disgusting. It's kind of disgusting. Jeez. Harvest the Firestar. Get your knife and cut a chunk of my beard off instead. Oh, my God. You need that lift.

Yeah, well, after 14 days, it could have a little bit of wax consistency mixed with it. Oh, my gosh. You guys must have deeper belly buttons than I've got. Have you seen my belly, John? We did bathe quite often in the river in Alaska, just FYI. You got it. We were cleanly. Well, you guys are sleeping together 14 days. And, John, I've never hit the end of it yet. Six-man tent. Six-man tent. All right. Bomb shelters. Anyway, Vortex. We got some Vortex scopes in, by the way. Anybody out there, for the muzzleloaders, the one power rule here in Utah caused us to go out and figure it out. So, anyway, got Vortex scopes here. One by 24, 24-millimeter objective. Awesome. Brownson brought one from way back. A lot of people were selling those things for $500. It was crazy. You can buy them from us about $25. Yeah, whatever it is. Who knows? Call us. We'll make you a heck of a deal.

Anyway, and it's got a crosshair and it actually has a turret on it. Basically, it comes with an MOA. You know, one click equals a half MOA, at least on the old model. We're going to check out the new one. Should be here any day. So, pretty awesome. Great opportunity. Super cheap. And should be awesome. We actually were hand-holding it, looking at about 300 yards because that needs to be – they need to be valid to 300. Come on. You said you could break the glass in a window, which is a three-foot-by-three-foot window. That isn't really – I'm now an elk hunter. I identify as an elk hunter. And they're big, big sheets of plywood. Okay. Okay. So, there's – You might hit it. Good. Anyway. Good. Fun stuff. You know, throwing a little shout-out to Thompson, long-range, super good dudes, Mark and Scotty Thompson.

Shooting Weatherby rifles have a long-range system that works for them and many clients, including ourselves. Been to their course. It's awesome. You'll learn a ton from them. And it's very affordable. You can walk away with a scope, a gun, the know-how, the knowledge, and a Weatherby rifle, 33-78, or a .257, or whatever. A lot of options there. And it's awesome. Super good dudes. Definitely can break glass at 300 yards. Scotty. Scotty's killed coyotes. I don't know if he publicly wants it known. But anyway. Long distances. Long distances. And I know guys that watched it. So, pretty awesome using his own setup. Thompson Long Range. Also sell Critter Lick, CritterLick.com, and then Thompson Long Range. You'll be able to Google it. ThompsonLongRange.com, 435-713-4248. Give them a holler. They also talk hunting and kill many big animals over the years.

And so, anyway, wealth of knowledge there. Last shout-out I guess we'll give out is to Outdoor Edge. They've obviously been partners of ours for a lot of years. We've had several of their knives as giveaway items here at Epic Outdoors. Both the replaceable blade knives and our newest one. Which is awesome. We're going to be giving those away again in a future membership drive in the coming months. So, anyway. But you can check them out online. Outdoor Edge.com. They've got a new knife in actually one of our newest magazines. This Razor VX. Kind of a new area of carry knives. So, anyway. Check them out online. They've got QR codes in our magazine as well. Page 135 of this April issue in Epic Outdoors. I want to throw a shout-out to Stedman's Jewelry also. They did a little. Did you guys see that little silver replica of my buck? Chief Bronson and I were on there in Arizona. Just awesome.

Like, down to the T. Incredible jewelry. Just thought I'd throw a little shout-out to them. Stedman'sFineJewelry.com. Super good dudes if you're looking for something for your wife but want it to be wildlife related because you're a dude. Probably ought to talk to them. Could you give your wife a necklace of your buck? She wants one. That's how you know you've got a good one. She's wearing a shed. What if she's not your wife yet? Like, Logan. Let's put a shirt off. Well, that would be a good test. Would Logan give a prospective girl a necklace? Maybe that's why some of them have come and gone. Whoa. Not enough jewelry? Logan, you ought to go to Stedman's Fine Jewelry if you want to keep the next one. All right. I'll be there. Do you need any other advice? Tips or tricks? What do you got? We're all married, so we've caught them. We can teach you how. You guys are – never mind.

You guys are – we're next level, Lowe. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. You're next level.

I'm sure that's exactly what you were going to say. That information might be dated. Whoa. What happened? What? No. I'm saying your information. Did the fish bite again? Did you end up catching her again? No, no, no. I'm saying your information might be dated. I'm thinking he's saying – Might be dated? That was an age joke, Carter. Yes. Yes. Well, you have – Logan, what does it hurt to try? What does it hurt to listen? Carter uses Snap Talk. Yes. Is that what it's called? Yeah. I don't use it, Bronson. He says you probably caught a Jana over a live line. I don't use Snapchat. I said Snap Talk. Is that what it's called? We don't do telegrams anymore. You know you ought to try it, Logan. Send a telegram. Have you ever tried a face-to-face communication? I haven't yet. What's that like? It's amazing. Wow. It can make you blush. You know what that means? Some girls are pretty.

Did you know that? Is that like FaceTime?

Yeah. FaceTime, but real. You can pinch and touch. You can check the button for Lynn. You can say, oh, Lynn. Oh, my gosh. Come on. I mean, it's real. It's real. This is the reality age. Gen Z is reality.

Come on. You need to see what they look like without a filter. That's right. Exactly right. Filters do cover up some things. Yeah. A lot. Even though you feel like. They can AI themselves. Yes. Not even be the right person. Not only can they, they do. I don't know. I assume. Dudes can do it too. Hey, have you ever been catfished? Yeah. Yeah. We already talked about that. Remember? His buddy. His dude. And now he's in with a guy. Now it turns out he has too. Member of the Catfish Club. In your defense, in your defense, Logan, we are a little bit older. Carter on April Fool's Day, he did think all the banks and post offices closed on that. It was a federal holiday. It was Easter. It was Monday. The Monday following Easter. Okay. Which is what? What is that on the calendar? I don't know. The Monday after Easter? We celebrate Christmas, New Year's, and 14 other holidays. Why not Easter?

Easter is always on a Sunday. There's a difference. In my defense, I got onto our banking, and I didn't see a transaction for the Monday morning. Okay. Like I would always see. And so I was like, you're kidding me. We had a good laugh of that. The mailmen have another day off. Clint has another day off. I mean, come on. You're kidding me. Turned out it was just April Fool's Day. John. Just another funny day in the neighborhood. John. You know, Bronson, you've known John a long time. Oh, no. Okay. I just wonder what kind of reaction a game warden would get if they pulled John over.

John's pretty cool. No, I've had reflections from my children before that I didn't act in an appropriate manner. Really? Whoa. Traffic stops. What happened? Not game wardens, but... Traffic stops? Yeah. I don't know. You didn't back the blue when they had you pulled over? And typically I would. It's just, I get that. Like we talked about, Josh. It's like, I am always trying to cross the T's and dot the I's all the time. And then they come up and it's attitude. And I'm like, go. Be humble and kind. Right? That's what you want to say. Just be humble and kind. Oh, my gosh. But I get it. I get it. You deal with so many people who are lying. I never thought about that. But, geez, you come up and you're an a-hole to me. And I'm like... Keep in mind, I think... I actually back the blue like I would do anything.

If I saw they were getting out and getting heckled, I'd be right in somebody's face with them. But having said they have a crappy day, there's not one traffic stop they make that they get greeted kindly. Maybe not. Maybe there are some of those. But generally they're bracing to get their head ripped off. Not a job I want. And I have said, oh, you know what? I... You got me. You totally got me. You know, I was speeding. You know why I pulled you over? Yeah. I was speeding. No, there was a wrapper that flew out. But how fast did you think you were going, John? Now I can double you up. No, but... Okay, I'm going to let you go on the wrapper. What were you doing speed-wise? Did you have your seatbelt now? Yeah, exactly. Were you on your phone? I saw you pulling. Were you on the phone? Has any one of you guys ever put your seatbelt on real quick before you get pulled over? Oh, yeah.

Every time. Here's another thing that bugs me. I feel like... Hold that thought, Josh. They waste some time on some stupid traffic stuff when they could be doing some other productive stuff. Some productive stuff. When I've gotten... Yeah. Never been... Felt more violated than when I've been, you know, broken into or robbed. And they're not helpful a lot of times. Right. But I had a kid get in a wreck and then I actually just stood beside him and we, you know, gathered up some pieces and parts. And I said, well, it's probably this kind of vehicle because look at this part. But he's in there like, hey, do you want to join the service? Well, he's here. No, not a plan to do that. But they actually were good dudes. Yeah. They're good people. Here in Cedar, we have the best of the best here in Cedar.

The game warden thing, when we're dealing with lots of game wardens across all the state lines, different. They're somewhat challenging. You just don't. And Pollock, what do you got? Oh, no. I was just going to say, also, you have to think of it this way, too. And this is just like a strictly reality kind of thing. They're trained that at any moment they don't know who's going to pull a gun or whatever. Like their stress level. It's the weirdest thing. I just sound like walking up to a car, you have no idea what's in that car. And so they're not happy to see you to begin with. They don't want to make the pull. They don't want to make the stuff. Especially if it's dark. Yes. Like there's lots of things. You've got to understand their stress level is high.

And it was just like I remember the first time when they used to do it, like going into marijuana grows and all that stuff, we used to go help them walk in. And I remember, like as a kid, you're playing paintball and your stuff. And it was always fun shooting at people and getting shot or whatever. Until it's real bullets. And then I remember, yeah, the first time when you're like, okay, we're all sneaking in there. We're a bunch of SWAT guys, and you're sneaking in on these dudes doing marijuana grow. And you know they got guns. Yeah. And you know they have guns. You have it. Like it's like, whoa. But I think they should be aggressive as they can be when they're dealing with real bad dudes. But when they're dealing with the general public at times, you're just like, you know I'm basically a good guy. You know, right? Like just be cool. Be cool.

What you're saying is it's written all over your face. Is that what you're trying to say? Or on my record. Yeah. There is a time. Run it. Go check it. I think that's what it is. Like don't be a jack wagon until I am to you. You know what I mean? Give me a little. Like reflect a little bit. If I'm, you know, trying to be a decent dude, be a decent dude. If I did something wrong, give me a ticket. We should have a podcast talking about what your rights are when you're pulled over. Because you don't always just have to let them. Carter. Whoa. I totally agree. Hey. I mean, I'm just saying like anyway. It's been well ingrained into me. I've got it. It's a little bit in my DNA. All right, everybody. Well, that's it for the weekend. We've done enough damage. Yeah. We're going to have to do some damage control possibly. Maybe control. Exactly. We'll think about it over the weekend. Okay.

We're going to see you guys on Monday. If you hunt in multiple states or want to expand your hunting portfolio, the Epic Outdoor License and Application Service is for you. We have dedicated hunt consultants and a team of application specialists to help you develop and achieve your short, medium, and long-term hunting goals. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors License App. 435-263-0777. Handcrafted, quality precision rifles from start to finish is Red Rock Precision Rifles. Many of our staff use Red Rock rifles, and we are excited to announce the new Red Rock Epic Mountain Rifle 2.0. Visit RedRockPrecision.com to learn more. If you're in the market for a hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James Sporting Properties specialize in premier hunting properties throughout the West. Check out available hunting properties at StJamesSportingProperties.com.

Here at Epic Optics, we are a verified dealer for Swarovski, Zeiss, Leica, Vortex, Pulsar, Stealth Cam, and more. Call us today to visit about available optics we have and what would be right for you, or visit EpicOptics.com. Good-looking, comfortable camo describes Kuyu. Check out the new Encounter Camo line for some of the best early to mid-season gear out there. Check out Kuyu.com to learn more. Canetrek makes great boots for any situation. Most sheep hunters in the high, rocky altitudes use these boots to keep their ankles in check in the rough terrain. Visit KenaTrek.com to learn more. We at Epic Outdoors are a Fierce Firearms dealer and have many popular models in stock and ready to ship. Call us today if you would like help deciding which options are right for you. Fierce Long Range Rifles are a great rifle, and many of our employees here use them.

Visit FierceArms.com to learn more. Thompson's out-of-the-box, thousand-yard accurate rifles can't be beat. For affordable, long-range rifles and shooting schools, visit ThompsonLongRange.com. For only $150 a year, you get nine issues of the Epic Outdoors magazine and unlimited access to our hunt consultants, as well as to our verified research website and member experience program. To see all other member benefits, visit EpicOutdoors.com. Thank you to Phonescope, the best camera optic adapter out there. Phonescope makes high-quality phone cases and optics adapters. Visit Phonescope.com to learn more.

Stealth Cam has high-quality, durable trail cameras that we all love to use. Check them out at www.stealthcam.com or call us to order today.