EP 142: The Life of a Wolf Hunter with Gus Thoreson

And I howled and the pack answered me and then here they come down to strangers. You actually see one, but it's two, three miles away. That's an incredible day. Do you find them traveling like summer range, winter range, anything to do with Western big game?

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, coming at you from Southern Utah. We realize everybody, it's middle of winter, not a lot to hunt, kill, you know, chase, although unless you're a line hunter or maybe if you're a wolf hunter, which is something we're going to talk about today. Got an awesome guest coming at you here. A guy that's just made a living at hunting predators, a few elk and deer as well. Super good guy. Before we get started, we want to thank Under Armour. We appreciate them sponsoring our podcast, sponsoring pretty much everything we do here at Epic Outdoors. Great partner of ours from the beginning. So, thank you to Under Armour. Produced a great lineup of clothing. They've got a few new items coming out. We actually saw it at SHOT Show. And as well as the regular lineup they had last year.

And what a great lineup it was. I was very impressed with the gear they've been making. Cool stuff to look forward to for 2020. Looking forward to putting it to use this fall. We want to give a shout out to the Western Hunting Conservation Expo. It's going to be taking place here coming up February 13th to the 16th. Check us out. We'll have an Epic Outdoors booth there. We'll be there the whole time. Great place to either come join our membership. Renew your membership. Buy some entries to our membership drive hunts that we're giving away. Really looking forward to that. It's an awesome show. We love going to that. And on the Saturday on February 15th is also a great event that we help sponsor. And that is the Full Curl Society Social where they'll be making sheep hunting dreams come true. Giving away a bunch of sheep hunts there. We always have our name in the hat there.

It's always fun to see those that are lucky enough to win. Doll, Stone, Desert, or Rocky Mountain sheep hunts there. Again, that's February 15th on the Saturday during the Western Hunting Conservation Expo. And we'll see you there. Yeah, we will see you there. We've got a booth there. We've supported each other for many years from basically inception. And Bronson, they're giving away not only these sheep hunts but the $5 ticket items as far as getting tags across the state of Utah. And all the different species. So what a great opportunity. Looking forward to seeing you all there. Come on out. If you're interested in one of these wolf hunts, bear hunts, lion hunts, or anything, give us a holler. Let's get after it. Let's get this guy on the phone and see what he's got to say. I want to talk some wolf hunting. Hey, is this Gus? It is. And Gus, Jason Carter, and Adam Bronson here.

Epic Outdoors, how are you doing? Good. How are you? Doing good. Good. You looking forward to talking about some wolves today? Heck yeah. Yep. I'm always looking forward to talking about wolves. All right. Are you, have you been hunting them? I mean, have you been out? Are we taking you away from killing one today? Or what are you doing? No, no, heck no. You know, right now we're actually just kind of hanging out and trying to have a baby. My wife's due here in about a week or two. So I came out of the hills this last week. And we've been hunting them here in January up until just recently. So I'm kind of just hanging tight right now doing chores around the house. Yeah. And trying to not go hunting so that I don't. Get in trouble. I'd probably not be a good idea. Yeah, I'd probably get myself in trouble pretty easily there. Yeah, exactly.

It's the last thing you want to do is be out in the hills miles and miles away. And so anyway, I hope things go well for you guys. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. But as we get started here, we've heard a lot about you. And of course, we're interested in wolf hunting. We've hunted wolves up there in Idaho and smoked a few of them ourselves. But haven't done it with a vengeance like you have. And so we just want to kind of bend your ear on that. But before we get started, maybe just give us a little of your background. Where are you from? And then what started this dog killing spree? So, well, I was born in Great Falls, Montana. And then we moved in Lemhi Valley. And I was just a toddler, you know, real young, probably three or four. And then started school out in Lador. And this was all pre-wolf before they'd reintroduce them. And we moved to Salmon when I was in fifth grade.

And Salmon, Idaho, that is. And so it's, you know, for those that aren't really aware of it, we're right on the border of the largest wilderness area in the lower 48, Frank Church Wilderness. You bet. And that is one of the first places down there at the end of the road where they turned them loose in 95, I think, 1995. So anyways, you know, I just started trapping when I was about eight years old. We lived on a kind of a warm spring creek there. There's lots of muskrat and raccoon and fox and whatnot. And I mean, it started, I was just always, you know, my favorite movie as a kid was like Jeremiah Johnson, that type of stuff, and old westerns. And kind of got with the horsemanship and ranching lifestyle. My family has a ranch up in Belt, Montana, and my grandparents had. So we just were always around stock and rodeo and hunting.

My grandpa, he was, you know, he used to take me hunting and stuff, you know. And even when we got to the age where we could go hunting, he'd come over and bring, you know, bring a camp. We'd set up a wall tent. He'd take us for opening week of elk season. And, you know, anyways, she's pretty big impact on her, my brother and I's outdoors, passion for the outdoors. But anyways, I just always, you know, my mom used to take us on camp trips, pack trips into the wilderness there. Always just loved it. That was one of the highlights of my year, you know, as a kid. And so, you know, we grew up riding colts and with the horsemanship deal. And then as I got older, I just, there was an old boy that used to trap bobcats back in there. And he'd come out in March, you know, because he couldn't get his stock up over the top until about March. And I remember he lived in a, in a trailer park.

And I remember we'd drive by and I'd see his rig. He drove a big old box truck that he'd load all his stock in. I'd see his truck there and I'd make my mom stop and drop me off. And I'd go look at his hides and listen to his stories, you know. And anyway, and so I just kind of got obsessed with it there. And then I went to college on a, on a rodeo scholarship and ended up, uh, finally I was like, man, I got to do it. That's all I could think about is back there and killed some out back there and stuff. So I, I went ahead and bought a bunch of old wall tents and I had a $300 average on all my stock, a bunch of killer horses and you'll see it on. And, uh, went in and spent my first winter, uh, on the middle fork there in 2009 or so. So, and, uh, you know, he went in, started setting camps up in November and started trapping and then, uh, come out the end of February, you know.

And, uh, so that was the first year was the winter of 2009. And, uh, it was just, you know, the, the wolf deal I kind of fell into by accident because, uh, the fishing game was wanting somebody to go back there and trap. But, you know, that's quite the liability. I mean, when you're dealing with large farm animals in winter conditions. And, uh, so here's somebody that had been back there trapping anyways. So they just went ahead and hired me to do it, you know. So tell us about logistics. That's kind of how I fell into the wolf. About the logistics of that camp when you're talking about camping or winter camping from November to February. And do you have your animals back in there? How do you pull that off? How do you survive yourself? How do you stay warm? Let's just start with that. That's nasty. You know, it's amazing. It's amazing how cozy you can make a wall tent, you know. Wow.

All that, all that insulation on the walls, right? Yeah, right, right. Well, actually, what I would do is I would hang nannies. Uh, so it kind of double wall it and it gives you about a couple inches of air there, you know. Oh, okay. And, uh, because there's times, you know, it'd be negative 15 for a while. I think a guy just kind of adapts, you know. Like, I sold a mule to the Flying Bee and, uh, I'd get up and, you know, they'd be wanting their grain. I'd grain them every morning. And I was just grazing them. This was before I was commercial. Now I have a hunting outfit. I have to follow more rules. There's less rules for, for private, uh, you know, hunters. Yeah. And, uh, so anyways, uh, I, I sold this, I had this coordinator to drop this mule off at the Flying Bee Ranch. Well, I, I got up that morning to grain them and I had them on a high line.

Each one of them, it's amazing how you get a system down. Each one of them know their system. They're standing in their spot that they stand in every day to get saddled, grain and saddled. And, uh, so I go out and grain them. I'm just in my long underwear and slippers. And, uh, and I thought, well, heck, I might as well saddle them while I'm at it, you know. And I went to saddle them. And, uh, by 11 o'clock, by the time I got down to the bee, it was negative 18. And, uh, I'm like, geez, I just sat on my stock and nothing but my long underwear and slippers, you know, anyway, I think the guy just adapts, you know, you do an awful lot of walking to stay warm. Like even though you have horses, you know, you get off and walk and stay warm. Like I've had it so cold that, you know, the type of deal, I mean, all of us have been

out there in it where your eyelashes are freezing together and stitching on your bit and it's breaking and stuff like that, you know, but usually a guy can get in. Into a pickup and warm up or stay in the house if you want to. And that's the difference is, you know, you can't really do that. So you just kind of adapt and keep moving, you know, and that all ties in when you're pursuing predators. I mean, they just keep moving too. And it really helps you. You don't, you know, the minute you hunker down, you're in trouble then, you know, you just keep moving. Keep moving. Well, what do you do? How do you feed a horse in the winter or mules in this case? Well, you know, I would, I would feed them, uh, like real, real high protein grain, um, like a molasses mix type deal, like a 19% protein grain. And when I come, like you had kind of had to build them up to you.

You can, you can make one, uh, twist of gut. You just pour the feed to them. So I would build it up to where by the time I came out of there, I was feeding the beach about 15 pounds a day of grain. And, uh, so I'd have it. I mean, that was the logistics, you know, you'd have to figure out how much you're going to need. And you got to get it in there. Like you got to get it in. Oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. No, you got to pack it in there. Um, your food, you know, I mean, you eat a lot of dehydrated stuff. That first year was a big, big learning year. I mean, I had some growing pains there. I forgot ketchup. I forgot salt and pepper, you know, like stuff like that. Like, uh, but I did have, I always thought this was ironic because I had this one camp down, uh, clear down on, on the middle fork. I'd killed a bull, a seven point bull that fall right up above it.

And so I packed, packed the bull out, cut it up. And then I was packing it back and you'd eat it. You know, I thought, well, that's kind of ironic. But anyway, uh, you know, so I would have, so at the end of the road, I had a camper and that was my highest elevation. And I would, I just had coolers full of meat there and I stayed frozen all the winter, you know? And then when I would go up to that camp, I would take enough meat with me. And cause shoot sometimes down on the middle fork, it'd be warm, you know? Uh, I mean, it, it'd be raining on you in January and crap like that. You know, you don't want all your meat to be thawed, you know, thawed and then freezing and thawed and then freezing. So yeah, there's definitely some logistics like that. But, uh, it, you know, and then there's quite a bit of feed down there at the end of the road. There was so much snow. I fed hay there.

And then I had, I just fed grain down on the middle fork and let them graze, you know? And I, uh, I don't know. It's just, you got to get a system. If you're going to hunt in the back country with stock, you got to get a system. And it's hard to do for most folks that are just going to go for three or four days. But we were there for a couple of months. They, your stock gets it down, you know? And that's like my stock. Heck, they, they know where I'm at's home. You know, I mean, I can go into the Saveway Park a lot and jerk saddles off and drop some grain. They'll be back there in the morning. But, so, so, uh, just to back up a little bit, you talked about your mom a bit. Like, um, she dropped you off and, you know, kind of helped you with this lifestyle. It sounded like a little bit. You want to go into a little bit of that? Yeah, no, she, she was a pretty good hand back in her day.

You wouldn't, you wouldn't think so. But she always rode colts and she'd take my brother and I just pack in there, you know? But she didn't know. I mean, heck, we'd take frozen hot dogs and stuff like that, you know? And kind of just live over a fire for a few days. And, uh, you know, we'd always take our horses and stuff. She didn't really know how to pack, you know? But she would, uh, she could tie bags on the side of one and, uh, take us in there. You know, she grew up on a ranch and rodeo and the whole works, you know? And, uh, so, yeah, but yeah, she would always take us like into the Stoddard country. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that, but the bridge just washed away a few years ago. She'd take us in there and then downriver by, uh, my permitted area now, my hunting area. She'd take us in there and stuff like that, you know?

Um, just over, you know, for a couple nights. And, uh, it was, it was pretty fun. She, uh, she always had a few bolts being born every spring too. So we would, we kind of grew up starting them. You know, we'd start breaking the lead and then get them riding and then take them into the hills or go to cowboy and hunt them, you know? So, so bridge the gap between college and paid to hunt. How, how, you know, it's one thing to say, I want to go do it. Uh, I'm tired of college or whatever I'm rodeoing. I can see no future in that per se, except for a broken back or whatever. Right. And so what now, what am I going to do? You know, you know, what's Gus going to do? How are you going to get paid to hunt? So, so just bridge that gap and then your first paid gig. Okay. Yeah, no. So I got, uh, I went to work for, uh, middle fork outfitters.

Um, actually in high school I did, I didn't know it was bad. It's been past seven years, but I took some guys hunting. They were just having a hard time. I didn't know. Yeah. Well, I didn't know. I, you know, I, I was a dumb kid. I was a sophomore in high school. Heck, I didn't even have my night license. They were like, well, we were going to, all you do is hunt. And I'm like, yeah, you know, my poor mother, you know, I, when I got my driver's license, she thought I was going to school for like a month and a half and I was just going hunting. And, uh, so, and then the school calls her and it's like, Hey, what, what's wrong with Gus? Is he sick or something? And anyways, uh, I'd been, I'd missed too much school at that point. I had to go to homeschooling, but you know, I thought I was going to make a million dollars hunting and dropping, uh, still working on that. Anyway, uh, yeah.

So I, you know, these guys are like, man, we heard all you're doing is hunting. Help us get some elk. So I took them, took them and we, we put a couple of elk and, and then, uh, you know, so I was like, man, this is pretty cool. I could do this guide thing. Then I went to work for Middle Fork Outfitters. Uh, and that's where the pack can really evolve for me. Like I'd always pilgrim pack, uh, just bags and doing that sort of deal. I've never, I've never, I've never heard it called that. Strap a couple of fanny packs somewhere on the saddle. Lash, just lash and hold. Exactly. Hey, the classic one is those orange bags. You slip over a sock saddle and then just shove stuff down in there, you know? Like that's a classic. But anyway, uh, probably, probably hitting home with a lot of people listening. Cause people are still doing that. Oh, I think so.

Yeah, but they are, they are, you know, and us as packers and back country guys, like you just kind of smile at them, you know, on the trail and I'm not judging them, but you never see us with something as bright orange. You know, yeah, we've been there. We've all been there at one point. So that's where I really learned a lot about, uh, the packing and of it. You know, I had the horsemanship with Colts and with, with riding horses and getting one to ride handy, you know, but, uh, you don't need that back there. You want them to go left or right forward or stop. You know what I mean? It's not like you're asking a lot out of them. You want to be gentle and stay in line and stand when you load them. And, uh, but that's where I really started, you know, whipping out some canvas manis and stuff like that and learning how to really pack classy, you know? Wow.

And, uh, so I, that would be, then I guided a hunt. The first hunt that I ever guided for Ron, uh, we killed a 355 bull. And I think it's still today, the biggest bull that he's taken out of his area. The middle fork doesn't grow big, have a lot of antler growth. Uh, I don't know if the country's so rough or it's mineral content or what the deal is, but, you know, I would say an average bull there's 270, 280, you know, and for whatever reason, this bull, he was a stud. I mean, he was a nice bull, but yeah, for a kid, that was pretty good. It was actually a really one of the hardest hunts I probably had. We, we, uh, we hunted all week. Well, first night in camp. So Ron was booking these hunts. That's when the outfit was pretty tough. And she was booking them for cheaper. And then there was just one guy in camp. Like they were supposed to, the hunter's supposed to help cook.

And so it was just me wrangling. I had 12 head of stock and this guy didn't really help cook at all. Like he was supposed to. So I had to cook. And then, and then guide as well. So we hunted all week and didn't see an elk. Didn't see an elk all week. Getting skunked. I'm like, son of a gun, you know? And at lunch on the last days, like, man, let's just go back. This sucks. You know? I'm like, Hey, like that is the worst attitude. I mean, it's September. Hunt your last day like you did your first. You just never know. And that evening, it wasn't about an hour and a half later, I spotted this bull. You know, they're up on their feet. Anyways, I was like, man, I don't know if we can get there, but let's give her a whirl. You know, so we went and killed this bull down in this hole. And I had meat mules with me because it was the last day. So I packed them back to camp.

We got back to camp about two o'clock in the morning. And then we had to get up at like four or five to start saddling and get loaded to head back out. You know? And that was a fly-in camp. And he actually, we were clipping along. I was stretching meals out so bad trying to get him to the airstrip, but we missed his flight. Jeez. By maybe 45 minutes, you know? But he killed a bull of a lifetime. You know? It was like kind of worth it, you know? But it was pretty exciting. We killed a bear that week, too. It was pretty neat. But pretty good to hit him in there. But anyway, so that's when I was like, man, I like this stuff. This is cool. I mean, this is what I want to do, you know? And, you know, naturally after that year, I knew I wanted to buy an outfit. But I just knew I didn't have enough knowledge.

So, you know, for about the past 10 years, I've just kind of worked for a lot of different outfitters. Learned a lot from each one of them. You know, a little bit here, there, here and there. You know? That type of deal. Different styles. Things I do like or don't like. You know? And anyways, so, yeah. And then I finally just bought one here this last year. So, we're diving in. Diving in. Back up slightly to, you alluded to it just a bit ago, about your start in hunting wolves. You obviously went through the reintroduction in the mid-90s. And then talked about your first winner in the backcountry trapping. And then, I guess, I don't know if it was the feds or the fishing game that approached you, I guess, about doing some trapping in there. Tell us about how that started. You kind of said you fell into it by accident. How that got your start?

And then, obviously, between that point and then now where you have an area. And we'll get into, I guess, wolf hunting. Yep. So, you know, I was, I spent several winters back there. And then I got a job at the county, which naturally is a good job, you know. But I was just miserable. It wasn't for me, you know. It's like, man, I want to do that. Benefits and a regular paycheck. It's terrible. I know. I know. It seems crazy, right? But you are. It was a great job. Yes. I was like, this just isn't me. And so I was just trying to figure out a way to make it happen. I'll be darned if I didn't just get a random phone call. Yeah. And they said, hey, you know, this is kind of what we're looking for. You're interested in doing this. We understand you spent several winters back there. You have the means to do it. Heck, I had six heads standing right there in my Corral at home, you know. You bet.

I need about, they're like, well, how much time do you need? Like, well, I need about 48 hours here. I need to get shoes on and get my stuff gathered up. But everything's pretty well ready to go. Wow. And so, yeah, within a few days and I was in there, I don't know if they knew what to expect, you know.

I had, you know, I'd lived with them. I knew all these wolves personally. And I, but I had never to that day tagged one. And so they, they said, like, okay, here's a kid that's not going to go get himself killed. You know, he's, he's spent winters back there trapping bobcats. We can see that he's looking at the records. Just how many bobcats he tags a year. You know, like, so he must kind of know what he's doing a little bit. This is the state, the Idaho fishing game. Is that who's approaching you? Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So, so I went in there and it was kind of nice because I never got to deal with, like, well, I got to stay in some cabins. And I never got to deal with planes. I never could afford them. You know, it was about 450 a trip. And so, like, well, we'll fly in, horse feed for you, Q. Jeez. All your gear, you know, so I was like, all right, right on. So, like, not empty.

You just all, all the mail. Salt and pepper. Salt and pepper. Catch it. Yeah, salt and pepper. Catch up, you know. And so, like, awesome. So, I, you know, I went, I was picking stuff up from the airstrip. And that morning I'd went up to these hot springs and taken a bath. And I seen this nice line track. And I had my hands with me. And anyways, I didn't run it because I had planes coming, you know. And so I was sitting there. I just, just finished. I just grabbed my last load. And I was kind of going through stuff. And I was at this cabin, this fishing game cabin. And I had everything, totes and stuff, just out on the front porch, you know. And I'll be darned if my dog started winning something. And here comes this deer running, running by with his tongue hanging out. I thought, oh, man, that lion, you know, he's probably trying to get that deer. So, I started collaring dogs.

This will be a fun one. I'll just pop him up, you know. And anyways, I'll be darned if this thing, black wolf, right on his tail, you know. So, I was like, holy smokes. And I, so I raised heck with him there. You know, I shot that one. And then I, now this is a, this was a mistake, a young gun mistake. And that's, for anybody that's out there listening and thinks you don't, you know, everybody makes mistakes. So, if you make a mistake, this stuff's normal. But anyway, so I had all my extra ammo and totes that I had flown in, right. So, I had just, when I rode down to the middle fork, I just had my mag full, I thought. And so, I, at this point, I only had three rounds in there. And so, I go up to this little knob right above the cabin there. And I howled and the pack answered me. And then here they come down the drainage. And there's a horse trail coming down the drainage. Jeez.

So, here they come. What do you got? What are you shooting? What are you shooting? So, I was actually shooting an old .22, a Winchester Model 70 .22. And I love that gun. But I like hitting wolves with a .30 caliber bullet because it rolls them. Yeah, exactly. Because they're big. They're big. Yeah. Yeah. Now I shoot a .30 out six, you know. But this was just a .22. I liked it because I could shoot a bobcat or a coyote and it wouldn't tear them out. Yeah, right. You know. Right. And so, anyways, I hear they come. And so, I didn't know. I guess it was two. I had two shells. So, I shot that one wolf. And then I went up there. And here they come. And I'm watching them. They all just kind of disperse through these willows. The mouth of the canyon starts opening up. There's much willows. And they all just kind of disperse through there. And I'm like, man, this is neat.

I'm just kind of watching them, you know. And I was like, all right. What are your dogs? That's it. What are the dogs doing? Are they tied up at the cabin? In a sense, they're probably, yeah, they're tied up at the cabin. So, they're raising heck. You can only imagine. Which is helping. Which is helping. It's helping me out. Yeah. Yep. So, I dial in on this one. And squeeze her off and click. I was like, oh, no. And right when I, it dry fired. You know, the primer must have been shot or something. And so, right when I went and clicked, that wolf, he just stopped and looked at me. Right at me. You know, and he's probably 110 yards. Jeez. I thought, oh, no. Now I'm going to booger him, you know. Well, I had my old cat, a hula dog, Ruby. My side dog was just right there with me. And then I went to rack another shell. Well, that was the only one. I was out then.

That was my dumb mistake of this. I didn't have a mag and all my ammo. I didn't have ammo in my pocket. It was all down in totes, you know. And how many wolves are you talking to right there? How many? Uh, there was nine. Oh. So, I started crawling up over this little ridge on my hands and knees. Well, they start coming to me. You kind of feel naked. You kind of feel naked. Yeah, you do. You do, yeah. One bullet, nine wolves coming for you. Right. Slippers and long johns. That's what I'm picturing. Yep. Jeez. So, I get over the ridge and I don't care if they're really coming to me. I'm like, just want my ammo, you know. So, I get out of sight and then I book it. I'm throwing a rooster tail behind me, you know. Running for the cabin? Anyway, I go down there and, yep, running for the cabin. And I have all these totes out on the porch. And I'm just throwing them. I'm like, just amping.

Where's the ammo? Turn them upside down. Yep. And, because everything going into it, I just went in with a mad dash, you know. Just kind of threw everything. I was like, oh, I'll organize it when I get into camp there, you know. Anyway, so I find them and I just dump the box right out on the porch. Grab a handful and start shoving them in my pocket. And I grab some more and start shoving them in my mag as I go back up to this ditch line. And they were all howling at this point. And, you know, that's pretty exhilarating to get them in, you know, where they're 100 yards or so. Just howling at you like that. So I go to shooting and I ended up shooting two more of them. And they were pretty surprised. My boss was when I called. He said, man, you'll never believe what I just did. And he's like, what? I was like, I just killed three wolves. The day of the fly-in. Pretty cool. Wow.

They were like, really? You did? And I'm like, yeah, crazy, huh? They're like, yeah. They're like, we hired the right guy. What was the goal? What were they trying to do? What did they ask you to do? Kill as many as you could? Was there a number? What are they trying to do? It was kind of more of an exploratory to see, you know, yeah, they said just try to kill as many as you could. You know, the old stereotypical deal that, oh, they're almost impossible to kill and this and that. And I had some pretty good luck there. I mean, it was, but a lot of it was, I just knew them, you know. I knew those wolves, all of them personally. So when you were, back when you were guiding a little bit and camping over the wintertime, like you were in wolves on a regular basis. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I was just living with them. And there was no season on at the time or? Yeah.

Most of that time there was a bit, right? The one year there was no season. I think 2010 was, I think we could hunt them 2009, 2010, they went back on the list. And then 2011, they. That's right. They let us. 11 and 12 is when we started. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So, you know, and they were a little bolder back then for sure. I mean, they. Oh, yeah. They were naive. Whatever they chased, they killed. And whatever howled was another wolf in their minds. And so, so was this a winter project? Like how many did you end up with? Like what was the. Well, in a month I ended up with 13. That's pretty darn good. Wow. Yeah. My goal was 25 and I was, I think I'd hit it, you know. Wow. Wow. Because I was pretty, I was pretty obsessive. I mean, I would, you know, you get a. Did you. You feel a grind back there. Like you got to be a self-starter in the winter.

You know, it's colder, it's darker, you don't get any sun. You know, the bottom of those drainers don't see any, you know, such. The middle forks touch a deep, narrow corridor. And so I, you know, I guess I always had that competitive mentality. Like, you know, like when you dash the last 200 yards of a race, you know. And so I started setting my alarm for like two or three in the morning. I wanted to be riding by four. And so I put on some miles, you know. And I'd get up real early every morning and just be out there, out there with them. And whether I was traveling or hunting. And, you know, I just put in more. And then some days I wouldn't get back until 11 at night. You know, if there was one day, heck, I was skinning. I didn't get back until like two or three in the morning. Wow. And because I would try to skin them right there if they were warm and thawed.

Because that's a real battle in itself. Turned a thaw, frozen wolf out in a wall town, you know. Yeah.

Wow. And so do you see any people when you're out, when you're out? Very rarely. Very rarely. You know, that year things, you know, that's, I ran into a guy, a do-gooder that really wasn't a big fan of me. But was a big fan of the wolves. And he, you know, I seen him. He was kind of harassing me, following me around. And then the foresters finally flew in and picked him up and escorted him out. But, you know, and then so he was writing articles and stuff. And, you know, he was one of the feet in the fire, you know. And anyway, they, so then, you know, because everything blew up. And I was having some success that people were finding out about. Because I didn't tell anybody. But my, there was a guy in the office there that works with that guy or something. And he used to, and we're buddies. I think he must have been leaking some information, you know.

But it's considered public information. But, so, heck, they would, I mean, they had like a Facebook hate page. And then they'd be like, oh, yeah, killed another one, you know. And, I don't know, it was like, man, I'm not telling anybody. So I don't know how they're finding out. But, anyhow, so there was a couple guys. There was one group of guys that came in thinking they were just going to run into them. You know, they'd just be swimming into them up to their eyeballs. But that's not really the case, you know. Just because you're clear back there. They're the same as the wolves out here. Anybody can go hunt them like this. The biggest thing is getting to know them personally. I mean, you know, they have different little rendezvous spots when they make their rounds. That's like a comfort zone. That's kind of like a living room, you know.

And, I mean, they have a real dominant rendezvous spot that's usually located right about where their natal den is. And that's about the only den they're going to use every year. It's usually about the center of their territory. Okay. So you figure out their territory. And then you figure out where their rendezvous spot is and then focus on that. Because that's, it's like a, you think of it like a bicycle wheel. You know, they're going to run the perimeter. And naturally, that's going to push the game to the inside and to the outside. Well, they can't go to the outside and the neighboring pack is around the perimeter as well. So they're trying to push that game to the inside, which naturally is closer to the natal den. So the game's always run to the inside, down to it. And then there's tracks going here, random tracks that don't make any difference.

Those are the spokes to your bicycle wheel. And then you got the hub and the center. And that's where that's where that rendezvous spot is going to be. And so every track, there might be random tracks going to and from, from the boundary to the center. But they're all running through that rendezvous spot. And that's where most of your vocalization is from and stuff like that. You know, and so you kind of try to piece that puzzle together. And if you get to know them personally like that, that's when your options for success really go, you know, get higher. But, you know, that's the thing is you, I mean, these wolves out around town, they're a little bit different. I don't think they're as vocal. But they have the same tendencies. They're the same, you know, a wolf is a wolf is a wolf.

And so, I mean, it's like they're still going to have those same natural instincts with their rendezvous spots and with their territory perimeter and stuff like that, you know. So, you mentioned it earlier. How have you, about maybe the naivety of wolves that have never been hunted back there or even there in the Lemhi Valley where you live or where you're closer to town. But how have you, what do you see as some of the biggest changes, I guess, from, let's just say, 2010, 11, 12, when they first started being hunted with quotas with sport hunters until now. And then we'll maybe get into, you know, how to combat that. What are tactics? How do you try to kill a wolf? Yep. No, for sure. So, there was, let's see, let me figure out this here. It was probably 2006. My brother and I went and it was a frontage area hunt. We spotted some, oh, I had some elk spotted. He needed to fill his tag.

We kind of grew up on elk and stuff. And so, my mom didn't want us to go hunt. We were supposed to go to my grandma's for Thanksgiving. We had a youth tag that ran a little later. Anyways, so we did what we shouldn't have done. We went and killed this raghorn bull out on this face. And we'd no more than a shot. And just walked up to that bull and all the wolves started howling across the canyon. And I think there was like eight or so in that pack. And so, we got them spotted, glassed them, you know. Well, they started howling, kind of gathered up, and then came running. Jeez. And I think. Just at your shot. I think. Like just the. They knew something died. Yeah, just from the shot. They knew they were going to get a, you know, be able to eat something, you know. So, that's one thing in particular that they used to, used to die dinner bell. You know, shoot and dead.

And then they just weren't scared of it, you know. I had them come that first winter. There was 14 in that pack. And I had them come into my camp one night. I always had dogs with me. And anyways, they came in. And all of them were just howling. You know, you can see in the snow where they're about 20 yards away in the morning. And one of them circled our tent, like three of my strides from it, you know. And just be bold. And then the next day, I saw one on the trail. And I figured he'd blow out, you know, head out, run off. And I don't know. I just spotted him right away. Just one of those deals, you know. Eyes just went to him. And he was kind of up in the rocks. And he was just kind of sniffing around, milling around. And then I kept riding. And that guy drove to about 60 yards from him. He just looked at us. He was watching us ride by. So, he used to be so much boulder.

You know, I mean. I ran into him another time on the trail. You know, you couldn't hardly get him to move out of the way. They just stand there and watch you, you know. And especially if you have dogs. I've had them do that, too. Where they'll come circle your horses and dogs. And your dogs are right underneath your horses and mills. They're just kind of. They do not like your dogs, you know. Right. Yeah. Do you find them traveling? Like you got them. Like maybe a summer range, winter range. They follow in the feed. They're following elk and deer to winter range and all that. So, when we're talking about this hub. And the spokes and the wheel. I mean, is that moving? You know, where they've got their summer range and then winter range. Yeah. Yeah. To an extent. I mean, they're naturally going to follow the game. But that hub is going to be located on the edge of a winter.

Winter grounds usually, you know. Yeah. And naturally in the winter. But they'll do. I've seen them push through snow. It's like, what are they doing? These crazy buggers. And it's like the only explanation is they had a tree they had to go piss on. You know. It's the only. It's like, what? I mean, it doesn't make sense. It's marking territory. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. And in springtime, they naturally get really territorial. And they got to do that stuff. So, especially when the snow hardens up. They'll cover. You know, they'll travel up over the top of the divide. It's, you know. And you get a lot of random singles and doubles. Especially right now. The breeding pairs should be breeding right now. And, you know, like, for example, you know, one of these last wolf hunts, we, the first morning of the hunt, we, I knew, kind of knew where they're at.

And we just, dumb luck, ran into them on the trail. And they just stood there at 228 yards looking at us. And the hunter shot at them. And so, we boogered them real good. Well, then, last morning of the hunt, we see this smoking hot wolf track. Like, man, I bet I know where he's going, you know. And it looked like a male track. And so, we follow it clear out of my area. I was like, well, you know, it's like 4 o'clock in the afternoon. I was like, I guess that's it. We're pretty well. That was where we put all our eggs in that basket for that one, you know. And then we drove, you know, came to come up. I was like, well, let's just go stay. Leave the stock and get on the road here. And we'll go stay at my house tonight. The cook can pack up our stuff and bring it out, you know. So, anyways, that wolf, he hit the road. He went another, like, 14 miles up the road, loping up the road. Wow.

Just trapped. Do you think it's like a young male just looking to venture out? Yeah. Yeah. He probably got kicked out of the pack. And he's just kind of out looking for a mate. You know, their whole life is life. It's all reproduction. It's all they care about. And there's studies that show that the whole pack will feed the pup and the bitch as well. Like, regurgitate, you know, for the alpha female. When she's too heavy to be hunting or eating, they'll all come back to that denning site and feed her. Wow. And, I mean, they might, you know, it might be a two-year-old wolf that's still part of the pack. They'll come back and regurgitate for her. You know, so their whole life is reproduction. That's female. Yeah, and not necessarily, you know. Well, and unlike a lot of other species, it's not about them individually reproducing. It's about their, the pack.

You know, they, they fall in line within their hierarchy. They get alpha male and female and they fall in line, so to speak. To a point, I'm sure those, you know, adolescent males, when they get to a certain point, they're the ones that are like, all right. You know, I don't know what triggers it. But, you know, at some point they're the ones that are like, I'm out of here. I'm kicked out of here because the alpha male is like, I don't want to deal with you anymore. I'm going to run you out while I think I can still run you out and get out of here. Yep. So, wow. No, I know. And that's, you know, and I've seen, and it's not even, it doesn't even have to be an adolescent. You know, like we shot a, buddy, my and I, we were running cats just for fun. He's a neighboring outfitter. We were down on the river road there, you know, and spring, a guy can see a lot of kills and stuff.

So it's kind of fun. I mean, grass is starting to green up down there and, but you see an awful lot of kills. And so you can run a cat pretty frequently. You know, you don't always know what you're running, but it's a good time to train on dogs. And so we see, we're checking this kill. And here's this white wolf. We run back. We walked up there without a gun. That's another thing. You should always walk up to a kill with a gun. Anyway. So we run back to the gun or truck and grab a gun. And so he shoots this wolf and it was a seven-year-old male, white male. And this sucker, we skinned him out and his throat. And I mean, he, he'd got his tail whipped. I mean, he looked like he was in rough shape and it wasn't his kill. It was a cat kill. A few, a couple of kittens killed the cell. He was just scavenging, you know, just trying to survive.

But he got, it's a seven-year-old male that got bumped out of the pack, you know, and was just trying to live on his own. So how old's old for wolves? What's that? How old is old? You know what I mean? Like. Yeah, I do. Yeah. I don't know. I would say, you know, the oldest one that I killed was a, he was a 12-year-old male. And, and everyone that's saying these are 200 pound animals, they're, they're full of it. Yeah. You know, like you kill a four or five-year-old wolf that weighs 65, 75 pounds, you know, and like this 12-year-old wolf, you look at him and I mean, you think, oh my gosh, this is one of those ones that would leave one of those tracks. It's like, holy smokes, you know. Coffee can. Yeah. Just unreal. And I weighed him and he weighed 137 pounds. That's a giant. Wow. You know. Healthy. Was he healthy? I mean. Oh, he was healthy. Yeah. He looked good. He was healthy. Yep.

And, you know, I mean, there's nothing, absolutely nothing wrong. I mean, good teeth to him and everything. But that was, that's the oldest one that I've had my hands on. Yeah. And he looked good. He looked like he was still in his prime. You know. When you go, when you go to gun and in a pack, like, are you, are you hoping to kill the alpha male or, or female? Oh, and you know, you want to kill the female. What are you doing? Like, yeah. You want to kill the female. You kill that female and their whole world goes into a tailspin. And then you get the puppy behaviors. What does that do? Do they stay? I mean, they don't know what to do, so they stay? They'll hang around usually. Yep. They'll hang in the vicinity usually. And they, you know, if you kill a pup out of it, they'll just check out. I mean, but, and you'll blow them out of the country. But yeah, you kill that female.

And I mean, you've got a few days, pretty awesome. Hanging around. Yeah. Like they'll hang around. You find yourself in situations where you're, you know, get in between them and their hound. And yeah, it can be an awful, a lot of fun. How can you tell the female? Like, how can you, how can you tell? Well, it's, you kind of got to watch them for a minute, you know.

I mean, just by their behaviors, which is kind of the one that runs the show. And usually if you watch them for a minute, you can tell. But, you know, especially then you see those pups are obviously a little bit smaller in size. And watch how they're, how they're acting. What, what wolf they're looking up to and stuff. That's usually their mama. Oh, I gotcha. Yeah. It's just the same as dogs and, and pups, you know. And, and same with puppies playing and rolling around. And I mean, I've seen those pups do that. You know, they look like big old wolves, but they're just goofing around, rolling in the snow, play fighting. And, you know, and then, I mean, just how they act towards their, towards their mom. Yeah, they'll, and so that's the one I'd naturally, I mean, would like to kill. Because I've seen them do some odd stuff and have a lot of success after, you know, after you take her out.

And you're, and it can be pretty good. You know, they're definitely pack animals. You know, use that to your advantage. Whether you're trapping or hunting. And really use that to your advantage. That'd be, when I hear somebody trapping one wolf, I'm like, well, what, what, what went wrong? Why, why did you only catch one? You know, was it a loner that was out just rolling around? Or what, like, because, I mean, they're pack animals. There's no, you should be gang setting and catching four or five of them, you know. Yeah. Well, let's talk about that, I guess, in terms of methods, you know, from, you know, maybe early on when they were more naive. Maybe it was just, you know, getting in the middle of them. You know, I don't know if you actually howled a man to locate them.

It feels like that, you know, the more that we've gone up or friends or other people going up, that's becoming less and less effective. Just because of the education aspect. So talk about methods that you, you maybe have had to evolve to, you know, whether it be, you know, calling, trapping, spot and stalk, or just getting lucky, tracking them to try to get to those rendezvous, glass and sitting on your butt and just glass. How do you, how do you hunt wolves today in Idaho? Yeah. Do you hunt tracks and then hunt them or what are you doing? Yeah. I mean, a little bit of everything you can, you know, like say, for example, if they're, if they're running an area and they're crossing these canyons, they're going to cross pretty consistently, just like cat, you know, and just because of terrain, at least in our terrain, because it's so much rougher.

And so you can kind of dial them in that way. I mean, you can walk canyons and say, oh, they crossed this, they crossed here, they crossed here. They didn't cross this one. So they must be up either on this ridge or they went out the top, you know? Yeah. And, uh, but honestly, the, the biggest, I mean, people ask this all the time. What's the secret? The secret is getting to know them personally, picking a pack, targeting them, stalking them and being a predator. I mean, that's the biggest thing. You know, a predator, when I say that, I mean, an opportunist, same as them. You know, they have tactics. They go at it when they go to kill an elk or deer or moose, but every situation I'm sure is a little bit different for them. And that's the same as it goes for us pursuing them. But, uh, you know, you get in, and you got to learn from, from those situations.

And I mean, it's, you know, you find some that are kind of similar, but, uh, I mean, yeah, you might, you might find an opportunity to call them. And that's great. Or, or, you know, try very rarely will I track them unless I'm trying to dial them in. Uh, because I mean, their feet keep them fed. They could be 30 miles. You know, they could cover 30 miles last night pretty easily. Yeah. And, uh, so tracking is usually low success rate unless you're trying to learn something about them. If you're going to track them, backtrack them. And, uh, that, that'll tell you where your rendezvous spots are. If they bed down someplace, remember that spot. Yeah. And when you're through, when wolves are in the area next time, glass that spot. Uh, because that's a comfort zone. That's a sub rendezvous spot. That's a place that they're comfortable.

So, I mean, when it comes in terms, like if you're wanting to consistently be able to hunt them and know them, like backtracking them to find out, you can find out an awful lot from an animal or something from backtracking. And, uh, from where they've been, you know? And so that's the biggest thing is get to know them personally. Uh, be prepared to do some calling. I, I'm always switching it up. Anything high pitch that's different than they've ever heard before. I'll try that. You know? I mean, they get wise to me. My wolves that I'm hunting right now, they're wise after these last two months. So I'm going to have to pull some new, new tricks out of the bag, you know, and try to, but I try to go silent.

I mean, the, you know, if they'll howl on their own, I mean, even like, I mean, I've, I've been trying to change up my tones and pitches and my howls, you know, cause I know they get to know me personally, same as I'm getting to know them. I know which one's howling. I know when the female's howling. I know when the pup's howling. You know what I mean? Cause I've been hearing them so much lately and watching them through glass howling, answer me. And it's like, you get to know them personally. Well, they do the same. You know, they get to know your smell. You know, they get to know your howl. So sometimes you, you're better off just going silent. Don't just go out and be blind calling. I hate blind calling. Every once in a while, do it with a hunter. Cause you, you got to kind of spice things up. If things are, you never know, you might call in a coyote, you might call in a bobcat.

Heck, you know, it changes morale of a hunt if, if you're not into them, you know, but it's amazing how fast things can change. The biggest thing is to get to know them personally. So put in your homework, you know, find those comfortable comfort zones. And that's usually from backtracking or, or, you know, figuring out where they've been, what they're, what they're doing, piece together the puzzle. And then each scenario, you know, if they're hunting, I mean, like, for example, when they're hunting, it's pretty obvious. Cause they'll be all in one track, you know, trailing down a trail. And then say there's a pack of six of them and five of them are going to split off and go up out on this phase. And there's usually always a big track at the bottom. And my opinion, this is my personal opinion. That's a catch dog.

And, uh, so they're, the rest of them are, I think the female and the pups go up, flank stuff, run them down off the hill. And, uh, a big dog catches them in the bottom, you know? And, uh, and then you'll see them, you'll see them do that. And they come back down and join up again together. So go make another drive. So that was an unsuccessful run. And a lot of times when you see that, there'll be a random deer track just boogying. I mean, somewhere it's like 15 feet in between strides, you know? And I mean, like, obviously he got bumped, like something, you know, you see that all the time. I seen one the other day that had a blood, he was bleeding too. So it must, must have, he got away and then he went and jumped the river and swam the river and they didn't get him, you know?

But, uh, anyway, so that, and, and with your game, how they change, you know, um, if wolves are in the area, they're probably going to be there in the bottoms or in the cliffs. Uh, and, and they're, I think the, the game kind of goes to the cliffs for shelter. I mean, that's, you know, they get them out in the open and they're done. They don't stand a chance, you know, but they get in the cliffs. I think they can travel a little better as far as getting away. And, you know, I don't know, most folks that have hunted, especially if you've run dogs, you understand this fact that from a batch of cliffs, you can see for miles usually, but you can't see 50 yards in front of you. You know, so I think that kind of helps too, uh, when, why, why, why game goes to those places when they're trying to get dogged, you know?

If you're, if you're trying to locate wolves and you've, you've covered the country, you're trying to cut tracks, whether it be from horse, mule, uh, you know, road, whatever else. And you're trying to locate them and you decide, all right, I'm, I am going to try to how, you know, just mix something up. So what time of day or what type of how, when, when is, what do you think is the most likely that you might get a response? And I realize that's all individual based on what frame of mind the wolves are in right then. But is there, do you never call during certain times of the day because wolves never, never will answer or never how that's not typical? Or is it like, you know, early morning, late evening, or do you find it, it doesn't matter? Yeah. That's the beauty of it is you just never really know.

Cause they, I mean like those wolves we shot out on this first hunt, they followed, we, we, it was the first day of the hunt. No, the second. And they followed us out. We didn't leave camp till daylight. And then they dropped down behind us and followed us out. Like down to the river. And then they went and killed a deer mid morning. We went up high, came back down and seen those wolf tracks on us. And they were eating on this deer at one 30 in the afternoon and we shot at them, you know? Wow. And, uh, so you just never, the next day we were into them, they were howling all day. We were in between them and, uh, had some opportunities at a couple, um, had some stuff like not. When you say howling all day, they were just to each other. They're eating, they're fat, sassy. Yeah, what it was, it was that female was really trying to call this pup.

There's this black pup that was across the river. I see. And, uh, she was trying to call them over there. Now we, we, uh, I couldn't, you know, you see the legal to shoot across the river. So we just kind of had to watch that pup. But the female, we had her 268 yards and she was just, it was obvious what she was doing. She just howling to him. He'd answer, you know, and anyways, but we might've been able to intercept him. Um, but, uh, I was trying to get that female with, I was pretty hung up on. And the, the one guy had a great opportunity. She's sitting in one spot for two minutes, Alan, and, uh, 268 yards. And he couldn't, kind of an older gentleman couldn't, couldn't see her. And then when he did, he couldn't find her scope and stuff like that, you know? And, um, but anyways, and then she turned around and walked off, you know, but, uh, yeah,

when we've hunted them, it's, you gotta, you gotta be on your A game. Like it's not something, there's a very tight window and stuff. Yeah. People struggle holding it together. Like they just, I don't know if it's just something about them. They get excited. Yeah. You know? Well, for our, and it is exciting. It is. But be prepared for that. I only like go into it to where you can go into kill mode and get them killed. Because if you get an opportunity, it's not going to last. Right. It's a tight window. Those same guys that, that day that we found them on the kill. Now I've, there's been twice that I've killed wolves with one shot, multiple wolves. And it's been, one was bedded, one was not, uh, uh, on a kill. In this particular situation with these hunters, we had that opportunity. They were on this kill and they got so excited. They're like, man, I'm going to shoot. I'm going to shoot.

I'm like, no, just, just wait. Like they're going to line back up, get them your scope and wait until those two line back up and kill two of them with one shot. You know? Now that doesn't happen every day, you know, but that particular day it happened. You know, it was just the way it worked out. So you gotta, you gotta be able to gear down when you need to, and you gotta be able to step up and shoot when you have to, you know? Uh, I mean, it's usually a pretty quick, uh, I mean, that killer instinct needs to come out and there are pretty good chance you're going to screw it up. That's just the way it goes. You know? And if you do, I mean, keep pushing forward, you know what I mean? You gotta keep at them. Have these long distance rifles changed the game a little bit? You know? I mean, they made it worse. I think more people just fling lead and don't get more.

People don't know how to shoot them. Yeah. I mean, they, and turrets aren't made for scabbard and I'm a wilderness area. So, I mean, I don't have one. I, I want one, but, uh, you know, I shoot, shoot my dad's old 30 hot six, which has for model seven. I can shoot it to 500 pretty comfortably. Um, but it just, you need to have a gun that you're, like, you're very comfortable with that you can shoot 300 yards. And, uh, I mean, I honestly, it's, it's kind of a pain in the butt I've got to where I just really don't like long range guns because of the most people that go and have a gun made. They've shot it from a bench of hand full times, but they don't know how to use it. They don't know how to kill with, you know, they're, they're a long range gun. They're not a hunting rifle and a hunting rifle can take a beat. You know, it's, you don't, you're not messing with your turrets.

You're not, it's not like a heck. A lot of those scopes, the smallest power six. Well, when they're at 80 yards or, or something, which happens, people can't find them in their scope. They can't, you know, it's kind of a pain in the butt. And, uh, they, I don't know. I'm just not as big of a fan of them. I think they're cool, especially with guys. I've been around a few guys that can use them efficiently and, and can, and can change them real quick and do some, you know, some pretty cool stuff, but you need to, boy, it's tough. You know, I mean, that's, if you're not comfortable with it, with that gun, I would leave it at home. You factor in things usually do happen fast. You know, they have for us when we've done it. And, and the fact, the excitement factor that, Hey, our whole lives, these things have been illegal. They've been in endangered species your whole life.

And now all of a sudden you got one in your crosshairs and you're like half questioning yourself. Can I really shoot this thing? Is this real? I know we did the moment gets bigger than it should be. Right. And, uh, all those things, the reality of it, that it's happening. Like most people know how hard they are to hunt, even when they hunt and they're like, then it happens and it's so quick. And they're like, Oh my gosh, you know, it's like, they just fall apart. You know, it's, I mean, it's understandable, but it's like, I mean, just like, uh, like my buddy, you know, uh, that, and I actually booked into you guys, but he, he, uh, man, great guy. And it was, he, we talked about it. He's like, I just couldn't believe it. You know, cause we were just riding down the trail and just happened to literally just run into him face to face.

They were trotting up the trail and I, I was, uh, riding a three-year-old Colt and there's absolutely nothing to tie up to. And we were above a bad spot in the trail. And so he bails off and yanks his rifle out. I'm like, and I hand him his sticks. I have a packing up behind me and I hand him some shoot sticks. I was like, man, buddy, you kind of got to be on your own. I got to hold the stock. So we don't end up rolling something off. I mean, stuff can happen pretty quick that way, you know, and you can go to kill and talk, you know, and I don't want that to happen. So anyway, so he plops down and was just really excited and didn't set his sticks up and had a pretty good controlled 228 yard shot for shot, you know? And, uh, but even he said, he's like, I think I just got really excited. I can't believe it happened.

If they say that, if they say that and admit that they were really, really excited. I mean, it was, it was a slap the trigger and they were looking before it even gun went. I mean, if, if you know, you do that, it's a, you didn't have a chance. When they first, when they first became legal to hunt, you know, it was, everybody was talking about it and it was just the kind of the thing to do. And there was a lot of people hitting the hills. It feels like it's slacked off a little bit, but what are you seeing for opportunity populations of wolves and then hunter numbers? Like, what do you, what do you, like, what's the state of the union address for wolf hunting in these days? Yeah. Well, everybody wants to kill one. Uh, they think it's cooler than Hank, but the men, like the mental end of it, most people are defeated because they realize how hard it is and they're like, Oh yeah, I hunted

them really hard for a while and didn't even just saw some tracks, you know, and stuff like that. And, uh, you know, and that's because they're hard, such a hard animal to understand. And there's some things that you'll just never really understand. They're just a bunch of mangy dogs running around. They do things. Sometimes it's like, this doesn't make any sense. You know, it's, they're, they're one of those 3000 piece puzzles. You know what I mean? They're like impossible to do, um, on some of this stuff. And, and so I, yeah, I don't think as many people have put in as much work into it. Um, and as far as wolves in general, their populations, uh, it was a smorgasbord at first and they really ballooned. You'd see a lot of packs of 12, 14, you know, that type of deal. Uh, now I think they've leveled out to be around six, five or six, you know, um, there's,

uh, there's a study I read once on that they did on coyotes in Wyoming where, uh, depending on the amount of food around would be, would determine the amount, like the, the litter size that a female would have. And, uh, due to protein intake, which makes sense on how many eggs she'd produce. And I think the same concept falls in with wolves because you used to see where there'd be like five, six pups being born. And now there's like two, three, you know? And, uh, I mean, most, I mean, most of your pups from last year, there's usually, you know, a couple in each pack. Like that's it. Not, not a whole big old group of them, you know, now whether they, whether it's as to do with eggs being produced or how many actually survive, that's, I don't know that, but I know that it seems like things are, have kind of leveled out a little bit, um, rather than

that balloon effect after they were introduced to a smorgasport buffet, no predation on them. And I mean, they're without, if we didn't have guns, they'd be top dog. I mean, they're, what they're capable of is unbelievable, you know? And, uh, and they're so smart. They figure that out, you know, on, on, uh, how, how to efficiently kill. I mean, they're, they're pretty many. If you think about it, how they can consistently take down a big game animal and, and they're healthy about it, like, and stay healthy. That's the thing is to them, if they get their teeth kicked out or get kicked in the ribs or stop, curb stomp, that could be life and death for them. So you think of our hunting dogs, you watch our hunting dogs work around a lion or a bear and how often I get a dog overhauled versus a wolf that I'm killing a big game animal once a week, you know, and that's healthy.

I mean, if it, yeah, if it breaks a rib, that could be, I mean, it could be life all and that could, it could be for, you know? So it's just amazing what they're capable of. Um, but I do think they've leveled out. You don't see as much sport killing anymore. Usually, I mean, they'll clean every little piece of hair up, you know? And, uh, and you don't, I mean, I don't know. I think that their population leveled out. I do think that, but I will say, and at least in the state of Idaho, trappers are starting to figure it out. Um, like there's a couple of guys this year that were tagged out by December, like had caught all 20 by December. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Impressive. Are they trapping or snaring? How do they do it? They do both. A little bit of foothold and a little bit of snaring, you know, just, uh, trapping them. That was from North Idaho.

And I, and, you know, in their populations, there may, may have something different going on than what I've observed, you know? But, um, so when I talk about this, this is kind of what I've been seeing here in the Frank, you know? But, uh, anyways, yeah, that, uh, so those guys, they're, they're getting their building. That's impressive. That's cool. Uh, but as far as hunters, uh, yeah, they're, they're dying down. You know, you get more accidental when people are out and deer hunting. Everybody, everybody buys a wolf tag and then, you know, that's all part of that. You gotta just, I mean, if you're out there in the hills, it's going to happen eventually where you run into a crazy deal. You know, my buddy, he was, we were just talking about this the other day. I was, I was hunting up her, not or some of my friends. And, and, uh, he, he was like, we went up this one drain.

She's like, yeah, I couldn't believe it. He's like, we went and set this camp up and, uh, I was just going out on this knob to get service. So I could text my wife and let her know we made it all right. Set her camp up and stuff. He's like, there's this little group of elk. We're all bunched up and, and here's this lone wolf. And I scared him off. And it's like, then I went back up there and he was still there with a group of group of elk. You know, he's like, heck if I'd have known I'd had my rifle and killed him, you know, but, uh, so be ready kind of, you know, I mean, always be observant of what around, like if there's elk bunched up, for example, or there's birds really watch for birds. Even when they're bedded down, there's going to be a bird around. Anybody that's called coyotes understands this. Even with deer and elk, like there'll be a magpie around deer and elk.

Almost like if there's a magpie somewhere, really get to looking because there's something there, whether it's a coyote or a deer and elk or something. Always watch your birds. Your birds give stuff away. I mean, they, they're the eye in the sky type deal, you know. Have you had, uh, what's maybe some, uh, one of your most interesting encounters when you're out there hunting them?

Interesting. Probably, uh, well, I had, I don't know. Probably one of the most memorable. One Christmas day I caught five and, uh, I caught four and shot one. So you're trapping them and shooting. Yeah. Yeah. The only one was just hanging around. I had, I had the female and the male caught and a couple of different ones foothold and a couple of them snared as well. And so it was just a pup that was hanging around and I shot it, you know, and, uh, but that was pretty fun. Yeah. It was a good day. And you talk about a lot of work, like when it comes, when it, logistic wise, when it boils down to it, you got one pack animal behind you and you got like five at, you know, 500. Wolf talking. Wolf talking. You know, 500 pound wolves to deal with, you know, and you're like, oh crap. Took me a few days just to pack them back to camp. What's that? Thaw them out.

That's the definition of pilgrim packing right there. Wolf dangling. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually do. Yeah. I actually have a, they're many though. You can't, you got to know what they are. Yeah. What the, you know, the ones we killed were like full of worms and just kind of, they're just nasty. Like, tell us a little bit about that. Are you, are you rubber gloving up coming out of those things? Yeah. You know, a guy should. Yeah. I, man. Cause you, it'll, they'll, they get inside you, don't they? Like if you're. Oh yeah. You have an open cut or something. They're pretty nasty. Yeah. But I don't know. I mean, I guess I'm the wrong one to ask that. Cause I, and I'm not a grinding person. My hygiene's good. But shoot, I can't tell you how many, how many I've skinned on the trail. And I got blood on my hands and I'm like, just kind of wipe it off on the snow and then

eat my sandwich. And you know what I mean? Like call it a day. And have cuts on my hand and stuff. And so I, I mean, I've cut my hand skin before. Your immune system's probably pretty high. Oh, I don't. It probably is, you know, but you should technically probably put on some rubber gloves and, you know, don't put a shoe of Copenhagen in right after you're right in the middle of skin and what, you know, that type of stuff. I don't know. You know what I mean? Common sense. I don't know. Yeah. Common sense. But I, I do know I've cut my hand skinning them and I, I seem pretty healthy still. They are definitely nasty. I mean, they're eating on raw meat and flesh all the time. And naturally they're going to be pretty disgusting critters, you know, and they stink. And they green bellies so bad, you know, that's, you know, I read a deal on them.

They have an acid in their stomach called acetone to break down the bones. You know, they, I mean, it's pretty easy. You can see a kill from this last summer. And if it's cat kill, obviously it's probably gonna be buried in it. The skull's not going to be ate. But if, if wolves have either come across it or it was a wolf kill, there'll be a few bones here and there. And there'll always be a skull cap because they'll eat the nasal, nasal cavity in the brain. And, you know, there's nutrients and stuff in there they need. And so that acid in their belly, this is why they green belly so quick. I mean, it could be negative 15 and their stomach will be thawed. It's to break down those bones. And, and it actually produces condensation too. So a wolf will very rarely drink. And if you think about it, I, I can't think of a time that I've seen tracks stop at a creek and drink.

They always just blow over the top of them. And, uh, unless it's like, you know, I mean, they have an empty chase or, or a lactating, uh, bitch or something, you know, then they might. But, uh, you know, cause most of your dens are usually around springs, you know, but anyways, they, uh, yeah, they don't, that, that acid in their stomach can be pretty nasty and it stinks. You know what I mean? They'll, you know, if you shoot one, you want to take it in town, show your buddies, it'll be green by the time you get to town. They're pretty ripe. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. You talked about the sport hunting that they'd used to do versus now. And, you know, when we first went up there, we saw a lot of that. Just, they, they killed and ate very little bit, very little, uh, reproductive organs and, and then went on about their business and they'd leave it there on the road. It'd be on a paved road.

There's a cow elk lane there. Just crazy. Yep. Yep. No, I know. Yeah. And I think it just, you know, just like a dog and a chicken goop, you know? Yeah. Kill them all. Eat a few and go. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, are you hunting? I mean, you know, are you, are you hunting strictly off horseback or do you have where you're using sleds or other, you know, trucks, sleds, forwarders, other stuff too? Or how are you doing it? Yep. So I have a, with clients. So I have, uh, my base camp and I think I have a hunt booked in March. I'm gonna try to get in there. Uh, it's real high. I have a snow crawler I built. It's a four runner, you know, with big 40 inch high rock tires. And, um, and you know, I put, you know, Chevy one ton axles under it and 63 inch leaf springs on the back and 48 on the front and the winch front and back and dual cased. Jeez. You know, it's pretty amazing.

I can go in about three foot of snow and, uh, air, you know, it has onboard air. I can air down the tires to about two pounds. Pretty sure. And, uh, and then it's amazing where he goes, like it's on tracks, you know? Is that thing for sale? Oh, you say you're talking trucks to the wrong guy, to the truck junkie that'll see something driving down the street every day of his life. That's a good little run around truck. I don't know if I could sell it. It's a four runner. I cut the back off and I put a bed on it. A four runner with a bed. Dog boxes. Yeah. So the four runners, they say are unbelievable. I'm the only one with the Toyota mega cab. Yeah. They're pretty awesome. Wow. I'm the only one with the Toyota mega cab around because I put, like where I cut it off is about 18 inches behind the back seat so we can put our packs and stuff in there, you know?

And, uh, anyway, it looks like a little mega cab, you know, a little crawler, but it's pretty cool. And I, a lot of people are bobtailing them, you know, but I extended the frame actually, you know, it's a little bigger than some of the Toyotas, but I made it for a commercial like hunting. I mean, some places I can comfortably take hunters because I've, I've guided, I'm for just about everybody around. I've guided for people with crawlers that are little single cat Toyotas and you talk about uncomfortable all day, right? Yeah. Look for a cat track, you know? And, uh, so I wanted one that was comfortable. We crank the heater up in, listen to some music, look for tracks and, uh, have a place to put our stuff. So we're not tying them on the top and get snowed on, you know? So, and, uh, I mean, it's, it's nice. Yeah. Those four runners. Yeah. So if you probably, what year is it?

Probably have the lockers. It's a 96. Okay. So you got lockers? Yep. It's got lockers front and back. And, uh, I think it's five, three, three years. Um, if I remember right, uh, it's got, you know, Dana 60 axles and then, uh, and their mechanical lockers. I mean, there's times where air lockers are nicer. Like if there's not enough snow on your side hill and you don't want to break loose, you know? Uh, but you know, the thing is, is I've always fought whenever I've been around air lockers, it's always been a fight, you know, but, uh, especially with cold temperatures and stuff and, you know, and, uh, so anyway, uh, yeah, it's a pretty sweet rig. So I'm going to try to get in there. There's another pack of wolves up there. Um, they're all grays. Uh, I've seen them a few times. Had one guy hit one, another guy miss one.

I actually howled one into about a hundred yards from our base camp there, the hitching rails. I was just loading mules to go into camp and, uh, it one howled way off faint. And, and I thought it was a person cause it was a pretty short howl. And anyways, I answered it. Well, it answered me right back. Well, I just started covering it up like you would a bull elk, you know? And, uh, that sucker came right, I mean, right into our 10 30 in the morning. We're sitting there kind of talking out loud, just loading mules and he come right, right down to our hitching rails and you missed him at a hundred yards. And then he went two days later and shot a buck at 590. I mean, the guy's a good hunter. He hunts with me every year. There's the wolf factor right there. There's that. Yeah. He said, he's like, I just got excited. The wolf factor. Yeah.

Well, they're, they're quite a trophy in and of themselves. But, uh, so it sounds like you're doing a little everything you're, you're still, you know, you're running a machine even into camp where you've got mules and whatever. So. Yep. Yep. Oh, for sure. That's a, yeah. And I would, here's another piece of advice for folks out there. But even if you're hunting frontage area pack, go silent. I mean, even if it's a road that you can drive up, get a set of cross country skis or something. Yeah. And I mean, if you're, it doesn't matter if somebody drives by you, but those wolves know, I mean, you're running around in a snow machine in this country and you're not going to see him, you know, or side by side, you're not going to see him. But if you're, if you're silent, whether it be riding a horse down a gated road or riding

a snow machine or snowshoeing or I mean, uh, snowshoeing or cross country skiing, whatever it is, if it's silent, you'll have a way, way better luck. Yeah. You know, uh, way better luck. So, I mean, say for example, like a road, uh, that's open to drive and, but there's tracks all over every day consistently. They're coming down for some reason. They're just hanging out around there, park down at the river and walk, walk up a ridge or something or up the canyon drainage. Yeah. So are you, are you, are you done with the government work or is that still going on while you're, while you're guiding, guiding clients as well or just guiding? Just guiding. Yeah. That was pretty much a one time deal. They, I don't know, fish and game. I ain't got a bunch of trouble over that deal or a bunch of big old hype. You were too effective. And all of a sudden this guy's killing stuff. Now I got hate mail.

I got the blogs out and now I got people following them. We got, uh, liability is going to get, you know, not come out of the back country one of these times. The funny thing was when they said, well, we can't, can't keep you on. This is blowing up. The funny part was when I was like, well, I'm already back here. Can I just stay back here and keep doing it? Oh yeah. That was kind of the funny thing is, yeah, once I got back there, I just. Wanted to do it. Consumed by it and kept at her. Yeah. So are you guiding elk and deer? And so now it's more, you know, it's predator control now. Like it's helping your area. Are you seeing a difference? Are you seeing a difference? Oh yeah. Yeah. No, we've, we're, we're knocking them down a little bit and, uh, definitely they're not really frequenting my area as much. It's helping your. Because I have some cattons coming out.

Helping your elk populations and things like that. It is. You know, I haven't had this area long enough to be able to see that difference, but in four years we'll see the difference. Well, I've seen that personally, you know, that I've, I've really mucked some wolves out in some other areas and four years later, man, the calf crop that grew up was amazing. You know, and, uh, the sorry thing is, it's kind of always job security, like give it a few years and they'll be back, you know, but, uh, but guys just got to keep on it and, and keep them checked down. Yeah. You definitely do see a difference. You know, uh, it makes all the difference in the world. Just the overall harassment of, of cows when they're either, I mean, conceiving or, uh, given birth, you know what I mean? Those calving grounds, that's not too.

Boy, those bear are pretty tough on, on your calving grounds, you know, and guy just has to keep, keep the predators in check and, you know, there needs to be a balance type deal. And, uh, but the wolves are definitely the most efficient. So the guy targets them the hardest and whatnot and keeping, you know, that's like here with my hunts. I'm not really booking them for that much. I'm just wanting to not lose money while we're doing what you're managing them. Yeah. Get lucky here and there and kill one. And, uh, like you said, if it means I could run a few more elk hunts, that'd be great. Yeah. Well, and, you know, run some lion hunts without always worrying about an unmolested pack, just running in on your pack of hounds and wiping them out. Have you had any, any instances like that with you and your buddies? Oh yeah. I'm sure you have. Yeah. I've lost a couple. Yeah.

If you haven't lost dogs in the state of Idaho, you haven't run dogs. Yeah. I mean, that's just a fact that, you know, I had them come right into my camp one time and take a pup, three month old pup. I was headed into the root ranch in the chairman of the basin to, I used to run their bear hunts for them, uh, every spring. And so it was a three day pack trip in, uh, and, uh, I just spike camped, just rolled out in a mani, you know, in a mommy bag. And, and, uh, they came in at about one o'clock in the morning and ran off with one of my pups and then they came back in. And so I had like nine, well, before that happened, I had nine dogs. Uh, they ran off with him and it happened to be, had to be my kid's favorite, you know, and all that anyways. But, uh, so I was like, man, I had a guy there with me, a friend of mine. He's like, he just couldn't believe it.

You know, it's like, man, he's, he's gone. Like, we're not gonna find him. Trust me. But, uh, so I pulled the rest of my dogs right by me. I don't let them, my hounds are pretty well mannered. Like when I say out of the kitchen, out on the hill and we're eating our lunches, they go lay down like 10, they'll go to a tree 10 yards away or something, you know? Anyways, they, uh, but so I pull them out. I don't let them sleep on my sleeping bag with me. Like they were off by my tack, just drove up all together and not, I don't leash them or change. I mean, they, they handle better than most people's pets, you know, but they've all grown up in wall pants and stuff. But anyway, so I pulled them all over to me and, and then this big white bugger come up and, uh, I sat up and went to holler and I had my pistol in my hand.

And, uh, anyway, I, when I got up, I tore my sleeping bag, hopped up and I knocked my light off of my head and my dogs were naturally, they just rat packed it cause it was, they were being protective of me at that point. And, uh, so they, they're all just rolling around with this wolf and I'm hollering at this other guy. I'm like, man, give me a light, give me a light, you know? And I'm kicking dogs and I'm kicking wolf and kicking anything, you know, I just trying to kick everything. I don't know what you're hitting cause it's pitch black. Yeah. You're just, yeah, but I couldn't shoot, you know, there's eight dogs rolling around with this thing. Well, there's a couple of pups that were kind of hiding, but there's probably a, I think six or seven adult dogs that were rolling around with this bugger. You know, I was like, man, like I, and then I knocked my headlight off and couldn't,

couldn't see what I was shooting. And even if I could have, I don't think I could have shot it cause it was just too much going on, you know? And, uh, but it was crazy. It was crazy. When you run off with a pup, you know, it sucked. It was coy-ion going out across the meadow. When it quit coy-ion, it wouldn't, it sounded like it wasn't because they dropped him. Right. Right. He died. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, how many, uh, how many, how many wolves have you, you keep trying? I don't know if you want to say it, but how many of you guys killed or client, client kills, your kills, you know, all told been, been a part of? Well, I'll tell you guys, I can share with you what, like what we've had this year with, with clients, opportunities and kills. We've had two hits, haven't recovered them. And, uh, we've had, um, 15 shots fired between the fall hunts and these winter hunts.

And, uh, most of them in that 300 yard range, at least the first shot, you know, uh, sometimes, you know, after you shoot the first shot, you might as well keep blazing. Um, but, uh, but yeah, so that's, I would say, yeah, I don't know this area of God is pretty, it's, it's good at elk and deer hunting, but it's darn sure the predators haven't been managing it since they were reintroduced. So they're pretty comfortable and, uh, we seem to be having a lot of opportunity with them. Uh, they're definitely getting a little wiser. Do you feel like a 50, like a 50% chance of, of shooting? Do you feel like you, um, or yeah, I would say for the fall elk hunters had, 80% opportunity at wolves. Wow. And, uh, and that was without, um, trying. And then our wolf hunters this winter have had 100% opportunity. Come on. With, uh, yeah. There you go. So that's, I mean, it was really good.

Hold it together and you're going to get a shot probably. Yeah. Just hold it together. Exactly. Yep. Unbelievable. And I mean, they are getting wiser, but yeah, we, I don't know. We have, it seems like we've had plenty of opportunity and lots, lots more than I have guiding wolf hunts for anybody, any other areas. But, uh, I, and I think it's cause maybe our country's a little milder. Like I'm used to the middle fork. I don't know. People are familiar to that voice. It's rough, you know? Yeah. And, uh, I don't know. My area, it seems like the trails are in the right places and you get around on them. And, uh, you know, they, uh, yeah, that seems to be pretty good. And there's that other pack. Like I said, I want to really target the spring. Um, I need to get them mucked down and I kind of, I feel pretty familiar with them.

Um, I kind of have an idea of maybe where their, their round of view spot's going to be and, and, uh, whatnot. And so hopefully it's been a pretty mild winter so far. Uh, if it stays like this, we'll hopefully be able to get in there pretty early and, and as soon as we can and, and, you know, and the reason I can't go in from the bottom of the thing, kind of need the forest source to blast the trail. It's slid in and rock side, you know? So we can't, it's, we're basically, we're just waiting on the weather to go up over the top, you know, to get in there. What's your season? Is it, are you running that August 30th to June 30th up there? Yeah. Is that roughly? And, and, and it never closes down anymore. They used to be a real strict quota system. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They did. Now we can kill up to 20 if you're trapping per person. So, I mean, 10, 10 rifle.

If a guy would just come, yeah. 20 for an Idaho state residents to come to their, their wolf trapping class and the trapping class and stuff, you can technically kill 20 wolves in there. So they're not too worried. Like at first they were worried we were really going to put the hurt to them, but they're not worried about that anymore. No, I think they're on the works of opening up even more, you know, just towards, you know, cause I mean, there's only a select few that are going to kill their, their 20. I mean, there's been a few guys do it and that's it, you know? And, uh, so it's pretty, you know, there's not that many people in reality that are going to be able to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Getting me fired up, Carter. Maybe we better get back up to Idaho this, uh, late winter. Might have to do it again. Yeah. It's been a couple of years since we've done it. Jeez. I does get me fired up.

Uh, it's just been quiet. People, I don't know if people aren't killing them anymore or trying, or if it's just kind of a moot point nowadays, like we know it's available and it's not that exciting, but it's freaking way exciting to me, you know? It is. When you do get into them, it, it is unreal. It's unbelievable. There's nothing like it. That's what I think most people have put some effort into it and then they don't, it's not, you know, you don't have the payoff. It's like, like hunting elk in archery or in the rut. You know, you hear them screaming and you're seeing elk, you know, uh, with wolf hunting, the difference between hunting deer elk versus wolves is if you're seeing those fresh traction last night, that's your action. That's like glass and milk group elk. That's as good as a can. Yeah. You're on them. You're on them. Yeah. So the exciting factor. Yeah.

The exciting factor for some people that don't fully understand wolves, that's, that's your action until, until it happens. And then when it happens quick, it's a lot of people get discouraged because they screw something up and then they're like, Oh man, this sucks. They're so mad at themselves. You know what I mean? And, uh, so just kind of, but the reality of it is most people have put in a lot of effort and never seen one. They're like, man, it's like, like I have my buddy the other day that we were just hunting for fun. Like, they're just like hunting there, you know? Like, well, not really. No, they're not. They are, but they aren't, you know? And then you kind of got to know where to look. Like, you know that, I don't know if I told you guys, but I spotted a black one. We just were hunting for the weekend, just goofing around. I seen a magpie and, uh, this is like hands down.

I just act like it was a normal deal, but it's hands down probably the best spot I ever had in my life. And, uh, it was a legit two plus miles away. And I see something odd on a ridge. And, and I whipped out my spot and scope. Well, here's this black wolf laying there with his head up. I'm like, you guys aren't going to believe this. There's a wolf laying right over there, you know? And, uh, so they whip out their spot and scopes. And at that, by then he'd put his head back down, curled right back up. And they're like, no, that's a rock. Like, all right, you just keep watching. That rock's going to move here in a minute. Sure enough, he's still haven't trotted. It was like, I don't know, you know, you just got to know, watch your birds, you know? I mean, that's it. But that was the excitement. That was the excitement. We couldn't get it. We tried to get on. We didn't get on.

That was a success. That was an awesome day. It's been wolf hunting. Yeah. You actually, you see a track, that's a plus. You happen to hear one. Okay. That's pretty awesome. You don't see it. You actually see one, but it's two, three miles away. That's an incredible day. Oh, unbelievable. And you're not even close to making something happen, really. You know what I mean? It is. You got to kind of keep yourself motivated on a wolf hunt because it's a grind. I think Jason and I, we got, I guess, a little bit lucky. I know I did, you know, on the first trip I went up. Jason, you did too. Dude, the first trip I went up, I didn't know what I was doing. And killed him. And then, you know, my brother, who probably because of those experiences we had, he wanted one more than us or anybody. It took him like over two years, like 19 days up there over about five or six trips. We're from Utah.

And finally, you know, finally we got into a pack of six and had a melee. And anyway, just, you just got to keep after it. There's no right way. There's, of course, some wrong ways, but there's really not one right way to hunt wolves. You just got to keep after it. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's just the time. And honestly, there's a little bit of, as much as you think you understand that pack and know that pack, a lot of it is the right place. Just luck. Yeah. You know, you got to be out there to have something happen. Yep. Exactly. I mean, you just don't, they could be 10 miles away or they could be right there. You just never know. You know, and, and, uh, and that's what catches people off guard is when it does, when they are right there, you know. Yeah. And then before you know it, you bump them and they're a long ways away again, you know. Well, we sure appreciate your time.

You know, if we take, if we take much more time, you might, your wife might go in labor. So. Yeah, she might. That'd be all right. Yeah. But we sure appreciate it. No, you bet. No, I appreciate it. No, if, uh, you can just check us out at heartxoutfitters.com. That's spelled just like, like a heart and then X. Uh, we're also on Facebook and Instagram. Our rates on wolf hunts right now are 3,500 for a five day hunt. Um, you know, we're also booking, we have some room, another spot for a cat hunt and, uh, elk and deer, elk and deer hunts as well. And, and bear, well, we're needing bear hunters. This, this deal hasn't been bear hunting in a few years. So I'm really excited about that. I think we'll do really good. We run those as a combo too. So like say, I'm going to, I'm going to bait with either meat or dog food.

So the chances of a wolf may be coming in on a, on a bait, you know, and, and you can legally shoot them off a bait. Uh, so, uh, yeah, it should be, it should be pretty fun bear season. Um, but yeah, or even if you guys are fostered, you ask them to talk hunting, I'm always up for that. Well, between, uh, between bobcats, lions, wolves, coyotes, maybe your area is just best for predators and you're just using deer and elk to feed the predators. Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yep. You're into, you're into the predators. I love it. There's not a lot of guys out there that can pretty much do it all. Of course you got, you're the envy of a lot of these lion hunters too. Cause, cause, uh, we don't have wolves to hunt down here, you know? Yeah. And, uh, what a, what a special opportunity. I mean, they're the trophy of a lifetime.

When I, I killed a couple of Bronsons killed a freaking giant and it, when you kill one, you feel like, I mean, it, it rivals a 400 inch bull or a giant mule deer or anything. It does. And the overall management satisfaction too, like you just think to yourself, man, I wonder, we just made a difference, you know? Yeah. Like, like we just made a difference there and then, and then just the, yeah, it's like the impossible happened. It became possible. Yeah. Yeah. Just the fun factor of it's unreal. Any, any, uh, any, any desire to kill one with a bow or anything crazy? I, I, I've had guys come up. I'll tell you an archery story on one. As I was guiding for a neighbor and outfitter here that has a frontage area and we heard a, heard him howling. It was opening day of, of archery season and the dang, uh, I, I guess just first day jitters, I forgot my, my pistol in camp.

So, and, uh, so we hear these wolves howling and then we hear them killing a calf, like a bovine calf here at Squallon, you know, in the state of Idaho, you can tag a predator with your, uh, with your out of state elk or deer tag. And, uh, this guy, he says, man, I'd love to kill a wolf over a bull. And he said, well, this is really unlikely, but we can give her a whirl. And we snuck up to about, oh, 45 yards from them. They were just bedded down. They'd already fed. And anyways, I was like, man, shoot him, you know, he's like, I'm not going to shoot him. If I shoot the one, the rest of them are going to come get me. And I'm like, no, just shoot him. You know? And he's like, he starts talking out loud. I'm like, shut up and give me your bow and I'll shoot him. You know? Anyways, he didn't, uh, he didn't end up shooting. And, and, uh, and this is a dumb thing.

This is the hound point of view. So then I hear some branches breaking. Well, the sow and two cubs had heard the same thing, heard that calf swallon. Well, they were feeding on it, on this calf. And so I run up there and I hear, I hear these branches break. Well, she'd whoosh when those holes got up, she'd whoosh these cubs up, up the tree. And so naturally as a houndsman, what I do is I pick up a big old stick and take a run at her. And that was a stupid deal. That was one of the dumber things I've done in a while. And, uh, she got the base of the train wheeled around and cracked that stick right across her head, you know? And at that point I knew I was in trouble. I was like, oh no. I got a hunter. God dies by a bear. You got a hunter backing you up with a bow, but he's really not got the bow anymore. He's running.

Here's the, here's the funny thing was, is he's like back like a hundred yards without even having an aeronaut. And I'm on the south of this branch. I'm like, trying to run her up a tree, you know. So we got wolves, wolves, wolves, wolves, bears, and a pistol back in the wall tent. Yep. Yep. I was like, come on. I turned around. I'm like, thanks for having my back, man. He's like, you are absolutely great. She finally took off or did you, or did you treat her? She finally ran up the tree. I finally ran her up the tree, but my stick was getting shorter and shorter. Freaking on her. I knew I'd made a mistake. Yeah. You can't back off. You're not going to run from her. Like you got to, now you're there, you're going to stand, stand your ground. That's how it was. I was like, oh man, this is so stupid of me.

Anyway, and he's just like, you're crazy. Yeah. Well, I thought I had. Yeah, that wasn't the brightest thing I'd done in my life. No, but you also thought you had, you had some six sharp sticks behind you and the guys took, took off. So, geez. Yeah, he was, no, he didn't have my back. No, you know what? You hear a guy shooting him every once in a while with a bow and they're calling out, you know, and I mean, not very often, but every once in a while. And it would be, that'd be like the most. Be unbelievable. I don't know, like that scenario, yeah. Like where we, we heard him killing something, we snuck in there and if he would have stuck one, that would have been crazy. Yeah. Black one with a bow. So, yeah. Yeah. No kidding. But to target it and not to be a goal, that's a pretty unrealistic goal. Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it could happen though. Maybe.

I'm not saying it could happen, but boy. Well, Gus, we sure appreciate your time. We'll let you go. You bet. Just a wealth of knowledge there. So, yeah, we'll go from there. Good luck with that, with that new little kid you got coming. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. All right. Talk to you later. All right. Yeah, bye. Bye. If you're interested in one of these wolf hunts, bear hunts, lion hunts, or anything, give us a holler. We work with, with many different outfitters and looking forward to getting you on a hunt of a lifetime. Give us a call. 435-263-0777.