EP 15: Mule Deer Hunting with Jason Carter and Steve Alderman

The terrain we're hunting, you know, high country versus desert. That's a 230 plus buck, let's kill it. Put in years and years worth of work. He just disappeared when he went hard horned and nobody saw him again until they picked him up dead seven years later. Anything to do with western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors podcast. The course is sponsored by Under Armour, we appreciate them and all their support. And the partnership we have with Under Armour, just appreciate them and the support they give us and the support they give the entire hunting industry. So anyway, having a good time. We're here with Steve Alderman, the legendary Steve Alderman. The killer of a lot of big mule deer over the years. It's obvious he's done a lot of homework. He's perfected the art of killing big deer. And he shares the same passion I do and loves these giants. So anyway, welcome Steve. Appreciate you having me. Thank you. You betcha, buddy. I don't know about that legend part, but I appreciate it. Legendary one way or another, buddy. Exactly. In somebody's mind, right? That's right.

So anyway, let's see. Give us a little background, Steve. You know, maybe your rough age and how you got started in the hunting and what you did as a kid and kind of what brought you to where you're at today. Well, my rough age is 46. Roughly? Yeah, roughly. I grew up in a small town in Idaho, Glens Ferry, which is right on the border of the best hunting in the state. At least it's proposed or supposedly the best hunting in the state. That's been for years. Yeah, Unit 45. So I grew up there. I started hunting with my dad when I was 12. And I wasn't, I don't even remember carrying a gun, to be honest with you. I think I was more of a pusher than anything. I remember pushing deer for my dad. He'd tell me where to go. And the next thing I know, the guns would be going on. Yeah, I was a human trail camera for a long, a lot of years. Yeah, yeah. So that's how I got my start.

I think I got my first buck when I was 15. Yeah. And we had general muzzleloader hunts there. So that's where I started hunting when I was 15. And all through high school, we got to hunt the famous Unit 45 muzzleloader. I mean, the herds were so awesome. We got to hunt clear into December 25th. I mean, just general over-the-counter muzzleloader. Crazy. Didn't know what we had. We just knew we had a lot of deer, right? So first four-point, you shoot it. Yeah. It wasn't until the winter killing 92, 93 that I learned to respect the animals because they weren't there anymore. And I decided I was going to join some nonprofits and put my time back into putting more deer on the mountain. And I didn't hunt for four or five years, college and being the president of the nonprofits and stuff. Came back in 99 and decided it was time to shoot a deer. And I was holding out for a trophy.

I became a trophy hunter because people look at trophy hunters bad because we're just out there killing the biggest, baddest, whatnot. But the way I look at it is I don't kill the first forking horn I see. And that buck gets to grow up and breed and do everything. So I do more for conservation being a trophy hunter than the average hunter does going out shooting the first deer they see. So I told myself I was going to be a trophy hunter and got lucky that year and shot a 187 deer. Just pipe mass, four-and-a-half-inch eye guards, and I was hooked. So that's when it took off. That's when this infatuation with mule deer took off was in about 99. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's where I got my start in mule deer as far as trophy mule deer. But I grew up in Glens Ferry, graduated high school there, went and played football at Boise State.

Got married when I was 30, had my first kid when I was 33. And here we are today. Yeah. One kid, and that's almost too much. I mean, you have, what, three, right? Yeah, I've got four. Four. Yeah, three boys and a little girl. I don't know how you do it. It's hard. I don't know how you juggle it. It's really hard, you know. They all want a pair of 15s. They all want tripods. They all want the best 10s, range finders. They all need a bow. They all need a ride. It's crazy. I would be happy with that. My kid wants the biggest computer monitor. Oh, really? The biggest, the baddest computer system. Yeah. That's okay, too. I would trade. Yeah, yeah. He's coming around. He's coming around. He went on his first elk hunt last year and loved it. That's awesome. Well, it's interesting. You talk about, you know, where the deer once were.

And, you know, I mean, it's just like the over-the-counter strip tags. It's clear back in the 80s, you know. You could buy them over-the-counter. Right. And now, look, you know, it's once-in-a-lifetime basic for non-residents. Exactly. And where we once were and where we are today, it's kind of crazy. And now, you know, we're finding ourselves having to apply for points and apply across the West just to obtain a few tags to be able to hunt these deer. Yep. You know, you're not going to be able to do it in your home state forever. And so, anyway, so you graduate from college. Like, what did you do for work? I was a tile contractor for 22 years. Okay. And I was very successful at it. Everything I've actually laid my hands on, I've been pretty blessed and lucky and been successful at. Yeah. The tile business. Probably this aggressive personality here. Yeah.

And the tile business allowed me to travel the world or the North American continent hunting mule deer. Yeah. I was lucky enough to go to Mexico, Mexico in 2007. Yeah. Went to Alberta in 2007. And to this day, I still travel around the United States mostly. Okay. I just film in different people's haunts. And so that's what you do. So you were a tile contractor and then you quit? Or you still do something? I do for friends and family right now. Oh, okay. Yeah. I retired basically four years ago from that to concentrate on the filming. I mean... So you're a filmer. Yeah. You're a videographer. That's what I do, yes. And production as well. Yes. We do stuff like commercials for the fairs and farm stores and just different stuff. We do headshots, testimonials for people for different businesses all the way from Boeing to TD Ameritrade and all sorts of people. That's crazy. It's easy.

It's good. It's good. Wow. Good for you. And so now you're just videoing. And I know I talked to you a few years ago and you're like, I'm going to slow down on deer again and concentrate on video work. But, you know, you cannot stop a mule deer hunter from hunting mule deer. You can't do it. No. It's not possible. It's in their blood, man. Yeah. They breathe, right? Yeah. Yeah. If they're breathing, they want to be outdoors. Yeah. And so, well, tell us about, you know, of course you've been super fortunate. I know you've hunted. You've been on the Hickory. I've never been on the Hickory. What? I never have. No, never have. That's the one place you haven't been, right? I've been a few places, but the Hick, I haven't. But anyway, you guys were lucky enough to kill an absolute monster on the Hick years ago. Yeah, with Aaron Howell. My first experience at the Hickory, it was a dream trip.

I was with a good friend of mine, Aaron Howell, who's the owner and president of Northwest Lyman College there in Boise. And he has one here in Texas. Okay. Yeah. And in Utah also. But it was a plug, I think, for him. I didn't even mean to do that. There you go. I didn't even mean to do that. Say whatever you want. But he was fortunate to draw the tag back then. It was a lot easier to draw it. And we went to the Hickory and hired our guide, because you have to hire one of their guides. And he was late. He didn't get there until after daylight, opening morning. Ooh. Frustrating for a mule deer hunter. Oh, yeah. Crush you. It was because we closed the bar down too late the night before. But the cool thing was, even though he was a half hour late, we still beat everybody else out in the field because he drove so fast. We were passing people that had left at dark on the highway. That's crazy.

And by noon, we had spotted this buck. And Aaron actually had spotted it. And he thought it was big. He just saw the cheaters and stuff on it. And I looked at it and said, just for a split second, and said, that's a 230 plus buck. Let's kill it. And the hunt was on. And the whole story, it's funny. It might take a little more time. But me and Aaron are taking the stock on this 260-inch deer. And pretty soon, we look up, and there's a pickup driving up. And the deer had jumped and left and went across this aurora and washout and went up on the other side of the mountain. And these people pulled up and said, your guide said we could hunt this buck. So they had walked up and looked through the spot and scope and seen this 260 buck and said, hey, looked at our guide and said, can we hunt it? He's a tackle. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody who gets it, gets it. Yeah, exactly. You're like, no, no.

So we were the fortunate ones and lucky enough to actually harvest it. And it was an amazing experience, a 261-inch giant. It's unbelievable. It was the biggest in New Mexico in 20 years and the biggest off the hick in 30. Well, in clear back then. Now you guys have done it. Well, do you remember what year that was? Yeah, that was 2000, 2001. Yeah. So back in those days, I remember seeing the pictures. And it was just like, this is one of the biggest deer I've ever seen in a picture. Yeah. It was just, it's got mass. It's just a crazy deer. It is. Crazy deer. Yeah, it's a dream deer, for sure. Yeah, and for you guys to just waltz down there and smoke it. And I was like, who is this guy, Steve? It's unbelievable. And I just happened to be there. That's, I mean, I've been blessed and just happened to be with people when they do stuff like that.

And it helps to know how to hunt deer a little bit and how to stalk on them. But I would have never, if Aaron wouldn't have invited me, I'd have never been there. Yeah. So. Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, Aaron spotted him. But at the same time, I mean, you knew what to do. And of course, there's a, there's a, you know, something that goes into between the time you spot them and the time you kill them. Oh, yeah. 100%. You know, your killer instinct takes over and it's game on. Exactly. So anyway, and so I guess you hunt, I know you've been to Sonora. You've done a lot of different hunts. But like, tell us a little, Texas, Texas is another place. I've never hunted mule deer in Texas. I know you've accompanied a few guys down there. Texas is hard, man. Texas is hard just because there's so much private property. And it's just like hunting's turned into. It's a money game.

You can bury your head in the sand and pretend like it's not. Yeah. It is. People realize the value of wildlife. Yeah. And especially Texas and the values there. And it's hard to get in. If you weren't in on the ground level, it's hard to get in and hunt some of those ranches for some of those big deer. Yeah. Fortunately for me, again, I've been invited on some of those hunts because I am good at glassing and good at killing deer. And yeah, West Texas is amazing. They have some monsters. I mean, we've killed some 215, 220. Yeah. Unbelievable. I've seen some of the pictures. And I know some of these ranches have the genetics. And of course, I've seen some of their price sheets, too. And it's kind of crazy. You know, and just like anywhere, you can get a hunt for $7,000, which is reasonable. Yeah. And kill a monster if you're lucky.

But there's guys out there that have already given these guys $20,000 and put it in their pocket and said, hey, when you find that big one, you call me. It's crazy. And that's the unfortunate part about it is money talks. Well, and big deer, you know, the tougher and tougher they are to obtain. Sure. You know, the more money comes into play. Yeah. And people want those experiences. They want to put their hands on a big deer. And, you know. And just because these landowners see them don't mean you're going to kill them because 90% of the deer these guys see during the summer, we never get to see. I mean, it's not like you go down there and they've seen two 200s or three 200s they got on a trail camera. And you shoot one. You don't. You go down and hunt. We've hunted 15, 16 days and never seen a buck even approaching 180 in Texas.

So where these deer are as far as mule deer in Texas, I mean, it looks kind of badlands, big country. It's not like your typical, here's whitetails and we sit in tree stands and they come by us and we shoot them. It's pretty intense. It is. I mean, Texas, you imagine, most people think of the hill country or the brush country in Texas. And that's not where the mule deer are. They're over on the far west part of the state, Pecos County, all the way south down to the Rio Grande almost. Wow. And it's amazing. Huge canyon lands, rocky.

Just, yeah. And everything pokes you and everything bites you. Wow. It's fun. Quite an experience. It is. It's a lot like Mexico, which you've spent plenty of time in. It's a lot like that. Yeah. Speaking of Mexico, do you like it? Would you go again? Do you keep wanting to go? What do you think about Mexico? We leased a whole ranch from Marcos. You know the whole scenario. You kind of guys leased that ranch also. And we went down, and I killed the biggest buck they've, mule deer they've killed off that ranch in years. And it was 207, 208, something like that. How lucky is that? First day out. I was just going to go for a hike from camp because when you lease a ranch, you've got to bring your own drivers, your own cooks, or whatever down with you. And everybody just kind of split up. And I had my own truck there with a high rack and everything.

And luckily, the guy invited me down and said, hey, why don't you take your high rack and just take this guy here and have him drive for you. He can drive the roads. And I said, okay, what the heck? I guess I'm up in the air. It's better than just hiking from camp. Went out opening day and got lucky. Got lucky. Found some does and snuck in on the does. And there was a 180-inch buck with a does and sat there for a half hour before we decided to get up and leave. And as soon as we get up to leave, this monster steps out of the Cholla. What was it like driving across? So you have your own truck down there. It was a nerve wracking? It was a brand new truck. I bought the truck specifically to go to Mexico with. Come on. Come on. It was a mistake because you got lots of looks and people looked at you and you're thinking, am I going to leave with my truck? Yeah. But it was great.

I mean, yeah, it was a brand new truck, brand new high rack. Didn't have an issue. I don't know if I'd do it now. But back in 2007, it. Yeah. But every year they just keep the hype up how scary it is to go to Mexico. And I've had no issues. Yeah. It's really not. Sure. You're going to have issues. You can have issues going to Utah. Yeah. So who's deer in southern Arizona? Yeah. Whatever. Exactly. You know, you can have issues anywhere you go. So it's not as bad as everybody says. And Mexico is, in my opinion, the destination. I mean, just the whole experience. Yeah. The desert, the weather, the people. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. That's why you go back every year besides the big deer. Well, yeah. And I find that Mexico actually doesn't have giant, giant deer. It's just, you know, you get those odd deer that crest 200.

But, you know, they're usually built like three by threes or three by fours or, you know, frames. Yep. But they're still big deer. They're just big deer. And, you know, of course, it's January, rifle, rut. Like, what else is going on? 70 degrees. Yeah. How nice is that, bro? Yeah. I mean, we're chilling in hammocks and whatnot. You know. Exactly. So nice. So nice. And they're good people. I love it down there. And I'm looking forward to going back one day. Yeah. Absolutely. It's a dream. And so you're applying in all the western states? Or, I mean, you know, what's your application strategy and plans for the future of the mule deer in Steve's world? The future is not so bright in Steve's world. So I'll be honest with you. When I stopped doing the tile work, my financial income dropped considerably. Slowed down. Yeah. And when I was doing tile, I applied in all the states. Yeah.

And now I don't. I concentrate on one or two areas. Yeah. And that's it. If I can go to Mexico, that's great. I'm looking forward to that. But mostly just my home state of Idaho now. I'm looking at Colorado and Nevada again this year. Okay. Just because of Idaho's winter kill, I'm looking at other states to possibly take away some of my time from Idaho and give those deer a break and go somewhere else. So Idaho, yeah. I know Idaho, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, northern Utah, parts of Colorado experienced this severe winter. You're seeing the same thing up there in Idaho. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Heavy fawn mortality and even some of the herd has expired. And more so the southeastern part of the state and the central part of the state got hammered. You know, the southwest did okay and the central. Yeah. Snake River Plains did okay, too. I mean, the snow was there, but it melted off in a hurry.

And it's just those other two parts really got hammered. Really? Yeah. It's not good. Like you're talking 50, 60% of the herd? I mean, in some of that country? That would be my guess, yeah. Especially in the Hells Canyon area, 22s, 32s. Yeah. Which have big deer. Historically, Adams County is some of the biggest boon and crocodile in the book. Yeah. But that's the amazing thing about Idaho. I think you can pick any unit in Idaho. And kill a big deer. And kill a 200-inch deer. Oh, I know. I mean, a 190 or better. Any unit because Idaho is just, it's under the radar. And again, this was up until this year. This might have something to do with it. But those big deer, when they start reaching four years old, they're smart. They went into the winter with good fat reserves and stuff. Yeah. Those bigger deer should survive. Yeah.

You know, I look at some of the deer that have been taken in Idaho since the 1950s, 40s, whatever. You know, you see in the different record books and whatnot. And it's pretty amazing. You know, I can test that Idaho, you know, genetic-wise, if they reach their prime, you know, across the state. And, you know, of course, having good weather conditions in the winter can produce, outproduce the strip. But anywhere, Poncegont, any of these. Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's unbelievable the genetics you guys have up there. Unbelievable. Even in our general units. People all think it's just about getting the tag. That's part of it. I mean, that's a small part. But it's spending the time in the field. And you can do it in any part of the state of Idaho. Yeah. There's no substitute for timing. We're killing 230s in the general haunts. I mean, and giant 230 bucks. Big deer. Big deer.

Yeah, with the big frames, the mass, you know, the stuff we like. Yeah, absolutely. So, let's see. I mean, can you remember your luckiest hunt? Obviously, we've touched on a couple of them. You've been extremely lucky. And people that you've been with have been lucky. But, I mean, can you recall a time? I mean, you've killed big frame bucks, non-typicals. I mean, about everything up there. I think my most memorable hunt was a year, basically. It wasn't just a hunt. It was 2007. And I knew that I was going to be in old Mexico. I knew I was going to Alberta. And I knew I had an Idaho tag. So, my goal was, and it was a hefty goal, was to shoot three 200-inch deer in three different parts of the continent. Wow. All with short-range weapons. Wow. So, it started in Mexico with the .208. Yeah. Which was a muzzleloader kill. Muzzleloader kill, yeah.

And then I went to Alberta and shot a .207, which at the time was the Alberta Providence record archery. Yeah. It netted 195 and some change, net typical. There you go. Yeah. So, I knew I had shot that buck early. And then I came to Idaho. And when I shot my first 200-inch buck in Idaho, that was a pretty memorable moment for me. Because it rounded off that whole year of 2007. And it was my first Idaho 200-incher. Wow. I mean, it just, yeah, it kind of hit me. It was an emotional deal for me. And to do it in my home. And a buck I'd been watching for 60 days. Yeah. And it just happened. Do that deer. Opening day, 8 o'clock in the morning, it was over. And it was just like, now what do I do? Yeah. It got some new goals. Yeah. All the work, all the work. And it worked. You don't quit hunting them. No. They're all different. No. You're exactly right. Well, good.

And then any disappointments you can remember? Like any missed opportunities? Yes. Listen, it still haunts me to this day. Back in 2000, we found a deer we called Hat Trick. Yeah. And he was a 250, 260 class buck with triple drop tines. And each drop tine was a foot long coming off this deer. And in 2000, I thought I knew what I was doing. Yeah. I mean, but I didn't. I had no clue. You learn every year. Yeah. You learn from your mistakes. And I should have killed that deer. I had a tag. And I thought I was doing everything right. And he just disappeared when he went hard horned. And nobody saw him again until they picked him up dead seven years later. So. Wow. Wow. That's one of my moments in my life that I look back and go, what could I have done different? And what would you have done different? I don't know. I mean, probably kept it a lot quieter for one thing. Yeah.

A few people found out about the deer because of me. And then there was a few other people in there hunting it because of me. So probably kept it a lot quieter. Yeah. And you learn. Yeah. It's hard enough to hunt deer when you're only hunting the deer. But when you're dealing with people and deer, it's really hard. And when you go out through opening day and there's six other people, in his core area. Pretty much not going to happen. Yeah. But the good thing was he was gone before we all got there. I mean, or one of us would have killed him. His core area wasn't that big. And he had moved on. And I don't know if he had succumbed to a lion or what. But they found him. And I'm still trying to get those antlers. I mean, I have four years of this guy's sheds. When he grew from a 200 to a 250-inch deer, I have all four years of him. Wow. So it'd be nice to have the deadhead with it.

Yeah, absolutely. So what do you find? We all have different tactics we use. Of course, depending on where we live, the time we have, and then the terrain we're hunting, high country versus desert and whatnot. But what are the top three or four type tactics that you're using that you contribute to your success? It's basic. I mean, everybody who wants to be successful should use these tactics. You do. I know you do. One is scout. Absolutely. And scouting don't mean going out on the weekends for two or three weekends. Scouting is putting in 45, 60 days scouting or 100 days. I mean, there's years when I go 150 days in the field. That's, again, why I don't apply in every state is because I'm out scouting and I have the money. But that's the number one is scouting, getting out there, pounding it, and looking in the mornings

and looking in the evenings, checking trail cameras during midday, and just getting boots on the ground. There might be deer you don't get on trail cameras and deer you don't see, but when you get out there hiking and checking the trail cameras, you'll bump them. Yeah. Which is good. And people say, oh, you bumped the deer, he's gone. That's my second number two trick is... That's not true necessarily. Bump? I like to bump them. Seriously, that's... You mentioned that one day and it was the first time I'd really heard that. We've killed most, well, I shouldn't say most, at least 50% of our deer in their second or third beds after they've been bumped. Wow. Seriously. And it's still opening day because you'll bump them where someone else will bump them. Well, you already know where they're going. Yeah. And they're... So now you know. He's going to... If you bump them, he's going here. Yeah.

So let's bump them. Find that out. And then when you're hunting them, go ahead and bump them. Find it out early. Yeah. As early as you can. Before they're hard horned. Yeah. If you can do it in velvet, then you know where their second bed is and you know where their third bed is. If you can't find them in their second, they're going to be in their third. They're definitely patternable. I mean, people don't understand that. And they're ritualistic and they do the same things over and over, similar to a whitetail. If I get bumped, I'm going 1,000 yards. I hit this tree clump over this ridge or whatever. Exactly. And the reason why they do that is because they're five, six years old and they've survived for five or six years doing that same exact thing. Yeah. So who wouldn't do the same thing? Yeah. Right. I've contested that for years. Patterns kill deer. Yeah, 100%.

And who would have thought bumping them is a pattern? Yeah. You can show you their pattern. 100%. Because they get spooked besides people like me and you being out there bugging them. You know, they've got predators and sounds and noises and smells they're dealing with every single day. Exactly. Exactly. And one of the tricks, I've bumped them different ways. I've bumped them by sight. I've bumped them by smell just to see if they do different things. Yeah. And they do. By sight, they don't go as far. Yeah. By smell, if they smell you, they go further. Wow. So it's nice to know where that third bed is or that second bed is and how they're getting bumped and where they're going. Yeah. And you're spending that much time with them. You get to know everything about them. Yeah. It's, you know, it's. Wow. It definitely helps your success rate. And course glassing.

I mean, all the standard stuff. Yeah. Like the deer I shot this year, I glassed him at 11 o'clock in the morning. Really? People are back in camp having a beer or whatever, right? And I'm out there with the glass hitting spots that I know a whole deer. Yeah. And get out in the chair, set up the 15s and just start. Glassed him bedded up? He was bedded up, yeah. And luckily the conditions this year and where I was hunting were perfect the first few weekends because it had rained and the sun would come up. And it rained, the sun would come up. So those deer, not necessarily the big deer, but the younger deer would go out in the sun to sun themselves and warm up. Yeah. So you could spot them. Well, you spot one deer, there's going to be usually one or two other deer there. And I got lucky and just saw his antler sticking out of the sage and just went, man, he's deep.

I need to get a closer look. It's a good deer. Yeah. Big deer. Deep. Yeah. Deep. Deep forks. A little narrow, a little weak, but yeah. Light mass. Yes. That's what you're saying by weak? Yes. Because he didn't look that weak to me, Steve. He looked pretty good. Well, he's got a... It's a 200-inch four-point, wasn't he? No. His four-point frame was only 190, but he's an 8x8, so yeah, he goes 202, but he's weak. He's got 15 1⁄2 inches of mass. Yeah. So if he had normal mass, man, you had another four inches to him. He's a giant. Trust me. He's a good deer. He's a giant. Yeah. Yeah. And you just can't pass up... Any 200-inch deer is a freaking monster. Yeah. In the way I look at it, 200's a great number, but it's just a number. Yeah. My favorite deer is 187 and a 194. Yeah. Mass. Pipe mass, eye guards. That's my weakness is mass and eye guards. That's me too. I have an eye guard fetish.

Yeah. I mean, I love triple eye guards, quadruple eye guards, basal points, and then monster mass. You got it. Monster mass. That's... Well, we're a lot alike. Yeah. To a degree. So anyway, anything else that you can attribute to your success out there? I mean, I know you've hunted across the state and done a lot of different things. Of course, you still like your backyard. You know it probably as good or better than anybody I've ever heard of. I did hunt your country once, you know. I know you lucky dog. Or twice. Yeah. Yeah. And you went up and made us look bad, killing a monster. Oh, yeah, you did. No, and I'm happy for you. We have kept you out of that area for a long, long time. And you finally snuck in there and you got it done, which I knew you were going to do, regardless. Eventually, when you got there, I knew you were going to get it done. So my hat's off to you.

It was just right at the end of the season. And of course, I'd never been in your country, really. I mean, I passed through it and whatnot, but I've never really worked it. Right. But, you know, when they're starting to rut, you know, we all know it's just a number of numbers game. I mean, and they're migrating, right? So you got deer migrating in. Of course, you do have some resident deer that'll sit there and rut, too. But I don't have any of the local knowledge you do. So for me, it's numbers. Yeah. You know, you walk into an area or drive into an area, and it's just a matter of I've got to cover. If I cover 400 bucks, chances are one of them is going to be a good one. Yeah. And that's all I did. That's exactly the way. I say 300. I say 300 to 400 deer, but 100 mature deer. If you find a 100 mature deer, one of those 100 mature deer, and I say three and a half,

four and a half year old deer or better, it's going to be a monster. Yeah. And then once you find that monster, and you've got to do it in a short amount of time, because they don't just rut throughout the month of October. We're talking the last four or five days of that particular season. Yes, sir. They're starting to rut. So, yeah. Yeah. And you killed, what, a 221, 222? Yeah. Yeah. Just a slob. Just a good deer. Yeah. Solid, big old deer up there. I wish you'd have gave him a couple more years. I know. And he was a little light on the mass. Uh-huh. I think he was, yeah. I think he was, what, a four and a half year old deer? I know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Would have been a giant. No, I think just don't get caught up in all the BS that's out there, man. We're successful because we put in the work. It's as simple as that.

It's not, I mean, you, some of the biggest deer you've killed are on general units. Yep. People don't want to, they say because you're getting landowner tags or you're spending the money. No. That's because you're putting the work in. Yeah. Anywhere. You need the tag. You do need the tags. But you can do that even, like you said, some of our Utah general, Idaho general. I mean, right now we've got some monsters on our Utah general, you know, and that's where I'm going to be this year. Yeah. And so, but like you said. And I'm going to be right there beside you. I hope you're not beside me, buddy.

Yeah. But anyway, but you're exactly right. There's no substitute for time. And then, of course, you know, as you put in years and years worth of work, you know, it does come together. You become more confident. You be able to, you understand it. You get it. And I think per hour you're a lot more effective. Why? You know, you can spend, Steve Alderman might spend, you know, 10 hours in the field on a Friday after, or Friday. And then a guy that's, you know, maybe Steve Alderman of 20 years ago spent that same 10 hours. You're a different hunter now over the course of 20 years and just dealing with it and being in those positions and situations. Oh, you're exactly right. And just spend the time out. I think packing a camera around has done more for me than anything. Yeah. And getting close because we didn't have the big lenses. We couldn't afford that stuff.

So it was just basically sneaking in and getting as close as you could to get the best footage has helped me and my confidence tremendously. And that's the way I look at it. If I bet a deer, I honestly look at it like it's a dead deer. If I want to kill it, it's a dead deer. And sure, there are circumstances like the wind and whatnot where you have to back out or come back the next day. But they shouldn't get away. I mean, with what we know now, it's a done deal. I mean, the confidence is there. It's just finding them is the hard part. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm with you. And then once you find them, you know, I'm kind of one of those guys like I like following them from year to year. And if we don't get them one year, in large part, you know, I find they show back up. Like maybe you're still dealing with a lion kill here and there.

And you might be dealing with a dead deer from one reason or another or whatever. But it's not like with each year. And I'm sure you're the same way. But we'll go throughout that year. And, you know, we're looking for the bucks we had last year and the year before. And the name deer, you know, Joe, Bob, whatever, you know, double G2 or whatever it is. And then, you know, relocating those deer instead of starting from a clean slate going, well, let's go deer hunting right now. No, we're hunting specific deer. And we want to find those deer. And if you find two out of three of them, then you want to see which one grew 20 inches and hopefully pound him. Well, you're exactly right. The deer I shot this last year there in Unit 45, I seen him the year before. That's why I was in there glass. And then he was a beautiful 185, 187-inch deer. Yeah.

And I was hoping because last year was such a phenomenal horn growth year in Idaho that he had done something. And he did. And he did. There's no question. But that's, again, like you said, spending time and getting to know him and watching him year after year is huge. Great. And so for this year, got some good tags coming out or good plans anyway? Man, I always have big plans. We're looking to pick up some sheep hunts right now to film. I love filming sheep hunts and being out in sheep country. But as far as, yeah, just Idaho, I'm thinking about getting a second tag in Idaho. Yeah. And seeing what I can do in a general archery hunt. I have a little tip on something down there on a good buck. Good. We'll see if you made it through. That's awesome. I don't know if this is the right year to buy a second tag and hunt because of the deer populations.

But maybe I just buy the, just hunt the general this year and just prove a point. You know, it's the time you spend out there. Kind of like you're going to do in Utah this year. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Kind of interesting. I mean, you do have a tough winter. They have a loss and then they still offer the general tags and second tags. A little bit frustrating. Very frustrating. You know, that we can't manage just a little bit tighter. But it is what it is. And the opposite side of that is people do get to go hunting and do get to have that tag every year. Just be a tougher season. Be able to take a deer a little bit longer to bounce back. Yeah. But people got to realize it's not about, we don't do it to kill. I mean, we enjoy that part. That's the finale. That's the finale. But we just do it to be outdoors, man. I love it. And just the sceneries, the sunrises, the sunsets.

I mean, sunrises get me. I mean, man, they almost choke me up every time I see one. So it's good to know you. It's thankful the sunrises. Yeah, thankful you woke up. Exactly. You woke up and it's there. So, yeah, it's being outdoors and being successful. People lose what it's all about because of all the social media. They see just all the dead animals and whatnot. And it's about getting out with your family and friends. Like you talking about getting out with your kids, man. I'm jealous about that. Yeah. Well, it is a life changer. You know, I know that. Kids are a game changer for me and my wife. And, you know, of course, I'm never going to lose the drive to put my hands on big old deer. But it's something else to watch your kids take their first turkey or their first deer. And, of course, they're hunting a little bit with me state to state.

Took them to Colorado this year, Idaho this year. And, you know, you kind of got to do that because some of these states allow them to hunt when they're 10 years old. Utah doesn't, you know. So I want to be able to get them as early as I can and hunt Arizona or hunt New Mexico or Colorado or whatever we can do. Sure. Depending on the kid and developing points and all that kind of stuff. But anyway, life changes. So, well, just want to, you know, tell you how much I appreciate you coming on, spending a little time with us. You're definitely a mule deer freak. There's a few of us out there. And I've got a lot of respect for what you've done over the years. You've proven it. You've done it. And you've killed some amazing animals. You've helped guys kill some amazing animals. And, of course, experienced a lot of different country across the West.

And we're all, both of us are getting a little older. And with, you know, with age comes a little bit of wisdom and a little bit of experience in the field. And, of course, we get a little bit better at what we do. And then also, you know, maybe even a little bit slower and not so aggressive to hike them mountains for no reason unless we know there's a giant. Just makes us smarter, though, too. Not so aggressive is smarter. More time behind the glass. That's right. Well, anyway, just want to tell you again, thanks. Appreciate you. Good luck in all you're doing. I want to tell Under Armour how much we appreciate them in sponsoring this Epic Outdoors podcast as well as the Epic Outdoors crew and all we've got going on with the magazine. Phenomenal company, and they support the hunting industry and appreciate them. So thanks again, Steve. Good luck. Appreciate the time, man.

All right, buddy. Talk to you later.