EP 158: Bullets, Bears, Cougars, and a Hunt Giveaway

We're seeing the light at the end of the application tunnel. I think it's a better bullet. It's a better concept for any bullet. We're ready to hunt, man. The closer fall comes, the more calls we get, and we're just ready to go. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Anything you say can and will be used against you. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson, Chris Peterson. We also have Devin and Wyatt in the room. In the house. Glad we do a full-blown Friday edition. Here we go. Weekend's almost here. We don't want to ask these three bachelors what's going on this weekend. What are you guys doing this weekend? I guess we are going to ask them. I want to know, don't you? What are you guys doing? Headed south to pick up my ODAT mount, actually. Oh, yeah. Cool. Pretty good. Are you going to bring it here, or are you going to bring it, take it, do we know where the resting place is going to be? Probably going to come here. Good. Get a blank wall over there. Sweet. That's all right. That'd be good. Wow. Looking forward to seeing it. Giant 35-plus incher. It's a giant. Out of Texas.

Speaking of, yeah, we're giving one of those hunts away. Just kicked that off on our newest Epic Outdoors membership drive. So I don't want to really, you know, spill the beans too much. Oh, let's spill the beans. But I guess here we are. That's one of the hunts. Texas, next winter. ODAT. High West Outfitters. Same hunt you went on what? Yeah. Same hunt I just got back from in February. Awesome hunt. Tons of rams. Great crew of guys down there. Yeah. Yeah, you did good. You killed a freaking monster. Now Bronson and I are booking hunts with him trying to figure out how we can beat you. Yeah, I'm not worried about Pete. But if you shot one like that, you definitely wouldn't think you'd need another one. I want to. I want to beat him. Yeah. I can't wait to see it. You're getting it tomorrow or today? Yeah, you're going to go pick it up tonight. Awesome.

Is that why you're wanting to get off work early? Yes. Sneak out of here. Friday afternoon he wants a half hour off. It's Friday. And Bronson and I had to think three times about it. He wants to beat the corona rush down there. He might hit Costco or something. No? No. He's going to lay pretty low key. Just a one touch go. Visit Jeff down there and grab your ODAT and head home. Head home, yeah. Good. Well, all right. Be in bed by nine? No. Hopefully. These guys, John, they go to bed at night. I know. I mean, I'm like, okay, you get off work at six. What do you do till nine? And he's like, you know. I'm like, what do you mean you know? What do you do? Do you sit in the lazy boy chair? Depends. I mean, what do you guys do? You guys like to dig into our personal lives way too much, so we're not going to reveal anything. We're like most people. We eat dinner. Yeah.

I know Devin shuts down about 8.30. So funny. If you go to the shows with him, 8.30 comes and he's like trying to stay up later than anybody. In the winter, that's understandable. Right? It's getting dark. But now it's light till 8.30. It's different. So is it harder? Do you stay up till 10? 9.30. 9.30, yeah. So full. I sent you a text on the backdoor method. At 9.46. I sent you a text on the backdoor method. At 9.46. Bronson and I are back and forth, back and forth, silence from you. From both of these guys. It was 9.45. We were asleep. That's my point. It was the day night. I have four kids. Bronson, how many kids you got? I got three, yeah. And we're wide awake, chipper, checking out draw results, doing research. We were here at what, five? I don't know about the word chipper, Carter, but I was awake still. Yeah. Anyway. Anyway. Pretty awesome. We thought it was an important deal.

Well, before we get cranking too hard, we want to thank Under Armour. Let's thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast and everything we do here at Epic Outdoors. They're involved in the print side, the social media side, our podcast side. So anyway, we appreciate them and their support of us here at Epic Outdoors. So Bronson, you brought up a hunt. Let's talk about a few other hunts that we're giving away. Let's do it. And as we, you know, if you've seen the EMAG, it's live and online right now at epicoutdoors.com. If you're a member, you can view that. It's the May edition covering Idaho deer, elk, and antelope, Wyoming deer and antelope, Iowa whitetail deer, and Washington moose, sheep, and goats. All there online. We've also unveiled our, it's always our shortest membership drive we do. We only do two big main ones a year, but this one's short.

And part of the reason is a couple of these hunts are for this fall. We've got, let's just read through them. First off, we've got, this is a 2021 hunt. This is an Alaska doll sheep hunt with Jonah's Alaska Outfitters.

August 2021, Brooks Range of Alaska. Awesome hunt. Jonah's an awesome outfitter. He's his own pilot. Aggressive crew of guys. Really scouts hard. And we gave, we gave one or two away. These one of these away last year and given another one of these away. This is for 2021. So don't worry about any travel bans currently or quarantine restrictions going to Alaska this year. It doesn't affect this year. This is for 2021. 2021. So that's, that's one of the hunts. Again, just kind of the retouch how you can enter for all of these. You either join Epic Outdoors. If you've been listening to these podcasts and enjoying them and you want to be able to maybe get more out of, you know, your hunting plans, application plans, consultation with any one of us. That's all included for $100 a year Epic Outdoors membership. But if you join or refer somebody that joins, you get a ticket for it.

Or you can also just purchase tickets. There's different ticket packages. We can talk about maybe the $200 and $500 package here at the end. But let's go through the rest of the hunts. Yeah. What I really like about Jonah, he's a hunter. He's Bronson. He's like our age. He's aggressive. He's coming down here doing over-the-counter archery in Arizona. Mexico coos deer with a bow. I mean, just very aggressive. Hunter himself lives for the trophy. Super good guy. Next on the docket, we've got a .231 mule deer hunt. That's with Greg Kroak, Muggy on Rim Outfitters. That includes a landowner tag. We bought a landowner tag. That comes with it. You're not having to draw a tag. And then we've also booked Greg. You'll be able to choose the season. Archery muzzle rifle, he'll take you. Seven-day hunt.

Just an incredible opportunity to hunt with one of the best mule deer hunters and best mule deer outfitters out there. So, this year, right, 2020, choose your season. You've got an August 10th opener for archery. It goes until September 9th. You've got September 10th to October 4th. And then the 5th of October to the 31st for rifle hunters. So, anyway, archery, muzzle in the middle, rifle on the end, any seven days. Of course, the hunter can continue to hunt. Yeah, if you book an archery hunt with him, hunt seven days, and for some reason doesn't come together, don't kill. The landowner tags in Nevada for deer are good for every season until you punch your tag on a buck. So, yeah, you can hunt, I don't know what that is, 80-something days, perhaps. I don't know. Maybe more than that. Maybe 90. I don't know. A lot. Basically, August 10th to October 31st. Enough to cause marital problems.

I can tell you that. Or girlfriends with these guys. I mean, these gals are used to you guys going to bed at 9. I mean, pretty sure they're not going to like you being in the hills from August 10th to October 31st. No? No, they are. No, they got some pretty understanding gals. Yeah, they are. They got good ones. It's a totally different thing when it's that time of year. It's different. Okay. That's the pre, pre, you can't call it a prenup, but it's the pre-disclosures, right? Predating disclosures. I'm gone a lot from July through November. Let's call it a deposition. I don't know. Okay, next time. Confession. What do we got? Next up, we've got an elk hunt with Deadline Outfitters. Hobie Gartner up there in northern Nevada, 076 to 081 with a landowner tag. So, bought the landowner tag. You have to choose your season up there, so you're not going to be able to hunt all the seasons.

You actually, for elk landowner tags, you choose your season. And anyway, he'll take you on any season you want. Right up there, butts up against Unit 54 of Idaho, producing a few giant bulls. And so, anyway, we've never given away, Bronson, an elk hunt in Nevada with a landowner tag. Yeah, I thought that would be a unique one as well. Should be a great year. Great chance to hunt a, you know, 340, 350, maybe even better caliber bull. This is not just an average six-point bull hunt. So, anyway, great chance there. That's another one of the hunt options. John, you got another one for us? This one's for 2021. Yeah, the next one up is Unit 68 in Colorado, mule deer tag on the third season in 2021. The dates are just incredible. Really late dates on this.

November 13th through the 17th, I believe. Anybody? 13 to 19. 13 to 19. Say it on there. All right. 13 to 19. I don't have it on there. Pretty late. I got to put it on there. Seven days in the rut. Never been later third season dates than that ever. That includes 681, 682. He's got some incredible access on private property down there. One of the best deer outfitters in the state of Colorado. It's hard to get these tags. Of course, Colorado, they don't publish lists of landowner tags. It's hard to get your paws on tags. And so, anyway, we've got some connections there as well as with the outfitter, Clay Hill. Hill's guides and outfitter, super good guy, knocking down some giants. It's in Colorado. So, we just thought it fitting. With 2021 being the latest ever, why not throw a hunt out there? Should be a great hunt. That includes the landowner tag. So, keep that in mind.

Landowner tag, fully outfitted hunt included. So, what's the next one? Devin, tee the next one up for us. Yeah, this one's also 2021. Just the first couple days, January 5th to the 11th in Old Mexico with Cucco del Cid in Rancho Benito, trophy hunt. So, yeah, you get picked up in Tucson. He picks the guys up and you cross the border with him. He helps you. Got a lot of different ranches down there. We got friends, personal friends is how we got affiliated with him. Yeah. Knocking down some freaking great bucks. Yeah, it's a fun hunt to go. I've talked to a lot of guys who go in big groups and just have a riot. Kill some great bucks. He's a good guy. He speaks English. I mean, we come by the booth. He comes by the booth at the Hunt Expo, visited with us. Man, we're expecting some great things in this. Well, that's a hunt too. That's, you know, coos deer hunts.

A little bit more maybe in everybody's price range. If you're looking to win this hunt, you still have time. We're going to draw these hunts June 20th. This membership drive goes from now through last day to buy tickets. It's June 19th. And if you were happy to win that and had a friend or family member you want to book, Cucco would still have room to be able to book somebody to be able to go with you on that. So they're not, you know, not that out of reach to be able to do that. So then, Wyatt, we kind of talked about this a little bit earlier, but tell us a little bit about this Audad hunt with Jim Breck. Yeah, this last one's the hunt I recently just got back from, and I did take a great Audad. Saw a ton of sheep. Pointed it down there with a good friend of mine. He ended up taking two Audad all over 30 inches. Jeez. So it's pretty incredible.

The hunter would have the opportunity to choose to hunt in February, March, or April, this, you know, next spring 2021. Great guys, great crew. They're going to take care of you and do everything they can to get you the best sheep possible. Well, and it seemed like it was awesome for you. You rolled in, smoked a monster, and were able to roll out. Well, they had a snowstorm, so the rolling out was a little bit of a problem, wasn't it? Yeah, rolling out, I got a West Texas snowstorm. Yeah, you missed your flight. Of course, you're calling into work, and we're telling you get here no matter what. We're busy. How much snow did they have in West Texas to shut things down? How much snow? They had a skiff. I mean, we wouldn't even buy an eye out of here. We'd just call it another day. But down there, it shut the whole place down, canceled flights, ended up staying down there

in Midland a day longer than I should have. It was probably warmer here than it was down there. It might have been. It was pretty chilly, yeah. Normally, that'd be a pretty good weathered hunt, man. That's not typical, though, so don't let that scare you off. And you've got flexibility. You've got three months to choose from or so to pick a date. And similar to that Cuco hunt, he would have spots to where if you wanted to take a buddy down with you, he could definitely work that. Yeah. Yeah, these aren't things you have to draw. These aren't landowner tags, per se. You know, just buy your Texas hunting license and whatnot, right? Yep. And pretty inexpensive. Fly yourself down there and go hunt. Weren't you saying there was a hunter after you had left that was on a ranch and seen like 70 or 80 rams in one bunch? Yeah, in one herd. It was actually the same ranch I hunted.

They went back a couple weeks later with another hunter, and they found a huge herd of rams. I can't remember the exact number. It was mid-70s. Yeah, 70s, 80s type numbers. That's crazy. A lot of sheep down there. Come on. Amazing. That's pretty awesome. So those are six awesome hunts there that we just went through. And, you know, you might ask, well, geez, why are they launching this? And, you know, this time where the economy and work and everything like that's kind of got everybody a little bit on edge. Well, the quick and dirty on that is we bought all these hunts well in advance of this. We didn't buy them last week and put this together thinking, hey, let's give away a bunch of hunts. We buy them sometimes years in advance. In the case of the doll sheep, you have to do that. So we have to give these away. Some of these, like we said, are for this fall. We can't wait any longer.

We bought these other hunts well in advance, and we bought hunts for next year already as well in some cases. And so we have to give them away. Somebody's going to win them. Who knows what the odds are going to be? It's a short drive. Again, it ends June 19th. And we've got ticket packages. If you want to do a, you know, tickets start as short, as small as $25. But if you want to do a $100 package, $200 package, or $500 package, you know, we have different things involved in that. Why don't you talk about the $500 package, Carter? Yeah, we can do that. We got a $200 package and a $500. The $200 is a 10-ticket package. It's a savings of $50, so it gives you a little better deal on a bulk purchase of 10 tickets. And so anyway, you can throw them in for any of the six hunts. And then you'll also get a custom Epic Outdoors series razor light knife. Outdoor edge and light. Yep. Yep.

The Epic Outdoors logo's on it with outdoor edge, razor light, replaceable blade knife. And then we also have what you mentioned there, the $500 ticket package. That's the 30 tickets in that package. It's John's savings of $250. I mean, it's an incredible savings. You get 30 tickets for, you know, your choice of one of the six hunts. All of the six, whatever you want to put them, you can do it. And then you also get a custom knife. Again, Epic Outdoors etched logo on the outdoor edge knife. And then also you'll get one ticket into our bonus package. And that bonus package has normally, you know, been a tag of some sort. We've done a 231 deer tag in the past. You know, in light of our new Epic Optics division, we threw an Optics package together. An incredible lineup of binos. We got Leica Ultravids. We've got Zeiss binos. It's an amazing lineup. It's an amazing. We got the BTX.

Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, we got the BTX with the spotting scope combo. It would be a 20 to 70 power scope. Excuse me, 30 to 70. 30 to 70 power spotter along with the BTX eyepiece. And then Vortex rangefinder and rifle scope. So we're talking dang near $13,000 in optics that we're going to be giving away to guys that are purchasing the $500 ticket package. So just awesome. You know, this day and age, we're excited. Even though it is a, you know, let's call it the COVID era. You know, everybody's getting excited. The restrictions are lightning. We're going hunting this fall. There's no question about it. A lot of our hunts are for 2021. We do have a couple for 2020. But, man, it's going to be incredible. Short membership drive like you were talking about, Bronson. We're expecting the odds to be fairly good. Some guys are going to be holding back a little bit.

But having said that, if you, you know, if you didn't get, you know, applied in all the different states or whatnot, you were kind of holding back, not sure what was going on. You might consider applying in the FD Outdoors membership drive. Or if New Mexico slammed the door in your face and you're just about to get, you know, a few grand or multi-grands back on your card and you want a chance to win. Multi-grands. Or, yeah, I don't know. I'm making up words on the fly. Or if you just simply have members, family members that haven't joined and you want to refer them or buy them a gift subscription, keep in mind you get a ticket in for joining or referring somebody that joins. So, anyway, just a quick and dirty on our newest membership drive. Let's do some cold calling. You want to cold call somebody? Let's try it. Let's make somebody's day a mess. How about that? Friday afternoon?

Giggles for the epic team? They'll never suspect it. Yeah, we got to call new people because we're even calling people. We called, I think we talked about, I called Jeff the other day. Oh, yeah. He thought I was, you know, he was guarded. I just had to finally tell him. I'm not sure he'll ever answer again on the first go round. No, no. You know what I mean? He's going to let it hit his voicemail. He's going to make you reply with a text after it rings five times. All right. We're going to cry. What do you think about trying old Mark Thompson up there? He's got a little new technology on his bullets. Yeah. Let's see what Mark's up to. Thompson, long range, critter lick. Let's grin partners from the start. See if he's scouting some bull elk up on the cash metal veil. Huh? Maybe. A little early for that, probably. Let's see what he has to say.

Hello? Hey, what are you doing today? I'm putting fence in. What are you doing? Come on. In the office. You're not fencing? You're being a cowboy, huh? Yeah, a little bit. Well, you're on the Epic Outdoors podcast. You're live and hot, and we just thought, hey, what's going on in Cache Valley? We've got to give Mark a call and talk about maybe this new bullet. We saw you switched up the ad in our newest magazine. A little bit. The twist match bullet is something we've been working on for, oh, probably five years if you add it all up. I started cutting some grooves in some different bullets and running them down the barrel just to see what would happen. That doesn't sound safe, does it? You're just taking a hammer and a screwdriver and putting a couple dents in it and throwing it downrange, or what are you doing? A little bit. The first two, I tied a string to the trigger and stood back.

I believe that.

Yeah. Yeah. Threw a mouth guard and a football helmet on. Yeah. A pair of sunglasses for protection. Yeah. Well... Then I got a little more aggressive and cut a little bit deeper and just kept getting different results, sometimes better, sometimes worse. It's pretty cool. I mean, it's amazing the accuracy that I gained. And, you know, I've reduced the drop out there to 1,000 yards significantly, which satisfies me that we're flying a little bit flatter, a little bit faster. What's significant mean? Two inches or what are we talking about? Depends on what velocity I push them at. Depends on whose bullet I've modified. Depends on what rifle I'm running them through. Really? Yeah. So, yeah. So... The basics of what you were trying to accomplish with these grooves on the bullet, what were you... I mean, reducing, I guess, drag and extending downrange, you know, capabilities or...

So, I'm going to back up a little bit. Yeah.

Probably 20-something years ago, we were in some pine trees. We'd just come up through some pine trees on horseback and we heard the whiz of a bullet. Jeez. And then I seen it drop in the leaves not very far from me. I walked over and picked it up. No idea where it came from. Such a liar. Did you... You're such a liar. Did you even hear the gun? Listen, you've got to hear the rest of it. You didn't even hear a gun go off anywhere, right? It was far enough away we didn't hear a gun go off. I walked over there and picked it up. This is leading to a joke. There's no way. No, no, no, no. This is fact. You got us. I walked over, picked it up, and it was so hot I couldn't hold it. Really? And I'm thinking, wait a minute. Where did all that heat come from? Because was it generated in the barrel and held that heat while it was flying through the air the whole time? There's no way that happened.

So in my mind, I realized there was some friction on that bullet flying through the air, creating that heat. So not just friction from the barrel. You're talking friction in the air. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way it could have held that heat from wherever it came from. Wow. Wow. It should have shed that heat before it got to where we were. Okay. So when that happened, you know, I thought about that a lot. What kind of resistance is against that thing? And then the next thing that happened was about the same time, Jason, I hooked up with you guys and you come out and shot. Yeah. You remember my range out there in the desert? We had that flat, soft dirt beyond the thousand yard target. Yep. And we were shooting the Acubon bullets in by Nosler. Still one of our favorites. It's, um. It holds together like crazy. They're killers. They're killers. Yeah. It's a great bullet.

It doesn't matter how close or how far. But anyway, I picked some of those up out there of guys that had missed the targets over the years and they were whole bullets. In other words, no deformation at all. But what was unique is that white plastic tip was about two thirds gone. Melted. Hmm. So a third of that tip was still there. And then little fine spider web pieces had kind of pushed away from it. So while it was spinning and flying through the air, it was, it was actually melting. Again, the friction thing hit me. So I thought, man, there's got to be a way to reduce that friction. And I, you know, I watch all the other bullet manufacturers make the really long noses, ogives out there. And the downside of that long, long nose, I call it a nose, is those that want to load close to the lands can't get close to the lands with that. Can't see your bullet deep enough where you want. Yeah.

Right. And then you can't get them in the magazine. Clips and all that. It just compounds everything. So then the thought process went to, what if I cut? What if I cut grooves in that ogive going over the ogive and keep a short nose yet increase the surface area by making those recesses and reducing the friction that way? And that's just basically where it went. Um, I wanted to match the twist, not that I'm going to help that thing twist through the air or maintain twist. I done some more tests to learn how much twist is lost between muzzle and a thousand yards and it's insignificant. So if it's a one in 10 twist coming out of the muzzle, it's pretty much one in 10 going through paper. One in 10.5 at a thousand, whatever. No, one in 10. Same. I mean, it was insignificant. Wow. I mean, actually I marked the bullets with a marker and shot them through paper, two passes of paper.

And when they'd go through the paper, they'd leave that black mark on the paper. And I could measure how much the rotation was through the cardboard. It's pretty cool. Wow. So I kept screwing, I kept screwing around. I tried, you know, different depths of grooves, different widths of grooves, different lengths of grooves and different calibers, different loads, any copper, all copper bullet. So I'm going to back up there again. I think my idea of a lead core bullet is probably not going to be around in 10 years or less. No, we got to save the condor. Yeah. So I didn't even want to mess with any lead core bullets. One reason is because I don't think we're going to be using them. And another reason is I didn't dare cut the skin off of there and have it come apart going down the barrel. Oh, yeah. You didn't want to have, didn't want to have to rely on the helmet to actually have to work.

Right. I didn't want to do the string trick on those bullets. Right. Just, so all copper bullets, every copper bullet that you can imagine, I bought. Okay. And then I went, I went to the machinist and I had him cut the grooves in one and 10, one and nines, just depending on what rifle I was working on, what caliber, what. That was the expensive part because that was not cheap having those cut at the right twist and having enough done that I could test them. This is tight. I mean, this is new age stuff. So the result. Now, I guess if we fast forward to the end of what we saw in this most recent ad, tell us what you think you've, what you've settled or found, what you've got. So you're happy or you probably wouldn't be releasing something if you weren't happy? Because you're pretty much a perfectionist. You're, you want to be right. Yeah.

Do you have, you have Scotty pull the trigger thousand yards away and you go grab the bullet and see how hot it is? Just the ones I didn't dare shoot.

And so what was the end result? I, um, I had done all those sample and test bullets and was satisfied that I was seeing positive results, period. So then I filed for patent. And if any of you have ever done a patent, you know how long that takes. It took forever. And I was, I was really shocked that nobody had patented this. There was some similar, not so similar, but nobody had ever matched the twist of the barrel with the grooves over the OJ. Anyway, I secured the patent. And, uh, once I'd done that, then it was a whole bunch more testing to satisfy me even more. And from there, where, where are we at now? I mean, just. So where are you? I'm not a bullet manufacturer by any means there. The ones I have are machined ones. And, you know, the only thing I can do is offer anybody that wants to sign up for the class, they're welcome to come and run some down range.

If they sign up for the class, let them shoot some and see the difference. So let's say I come to Thompson long range. You sell me a rifle. So I've got everything set up. Do you, uh, are we at the point where we can run those? We can run those bullets in the field and, or is it more that shit just kind of the initial concept still? Nope. You can run the ones I got there. Like I say, they're machined ones. They're not manufactured. I think in the manufacturing process, there's some other things that can be perfected. Um, but the machine ones that I've got, I'm totally satisfied. They do the job. So like you say, somebody that signs up, they're welcome to shoot some down range and see what it's all about. It's pretty impressive. Do you feel like it reduces spin drift or anything like that? Or, I mean, definitely something you want to do, something we want to look into?

I think it's a better bullet. It's a better concept for any bullet. So spin drift, um, a transition between supersonic and subsonic. I mean, you've heard the stories of people that lose track of their bullet once they break through that supersonic subsonic line. I, I didn't experience that with these, which is pretty cool. That's, um, what does that mean? There's some, you got to talk hunting terms with this, Mark. What is, what's the good and bad of all that? Super and sub. Velocity is what it all comes down to. Um, I'm not exact, but I think it's like right around 1200 feet per second and faster is supersonic going faster than the speed of sound. When a bullet transitions from supersonic to subsonic, there's some destabilization, serious destabilization that can happen. And, um, with this bullet, I did not experience that.

In other words, it held the accuracy through that transition, which one, one of the rifles is, I don't know, 1400 yards. So I, I've shot these things way out there. Wow. Just so I could get through that. So in my opinion, any bullet that goes down a rifled barrel, if it has twist match grooves over the ogive and the nose, um, it's going to enhance the flight of that bullet. Are you, are you shooting a mainly with a 30 cal? I mean, or maybe you have multiple calibers, but like what, what, what BC are you talking like on a 30 cal or what, whatever you think you're using the most? I don't have, I don't have a way to calculate that stuff. Yeah. So all I can do is take the bullet before it's cut. Yeah. Get the results with that bullet before I cut it and then shoot the bullet, the identical bullet with the cuts in it and see the difference.

And are you maintaining weight or is it pulling weight off of it? About one and a half grains, two grains maximum. Oh, wow. Not much. Not enough to make much of a difference. Are you calculating, are you down to where you're calculating a different ballistic coefficient or? I haven't, I haven't got to that yet. I mean, I've tried to figure it backwards. I'm not going to say any numbers. Yeah. You'll be able to see the difference if you come and shoot. Wow. 257, 257 or you? 257, 7mm and the 30 caliber. Gotcha. Wow. Kind of exciting. Are you? That's fun. You never rest, do you? Like you're never like, well, you're building fence today, it sounds like. So you're not, not resting, but it's just not in your nature to say, hi, I've done all I think I'm going to do in this life. I'm going to watch the grass grow today. Not much of that. No. No. Not much of that.

No, that's just not how you're wired. Well, it's always, you know, you, you've proven everything you've been doing, you do well at, and like you said, you want to perfect, but. Are you still, are you still involved with the snow climbs and things like that? Slides? No, we, we, we quit doing that a year and a half ago. So that was kind of a relief. That become a burden more than a pleasure. So. Okay. I spend a lot more time with the rifle stuff and the, the bullet thing. So. That's good. Okay. Well, we appreciate your time, everybody. Mark Thompson, Thompson Long Range offers shooting schools, rifle setups, very cost effective for long range hunting. Been through the course, own the rifles. That's unbelievable. Mark, you, you introduced us to a long range hunting clear back in the day. I want to say you probably know the year, but what was it? 2003, four or five, something like that.

Um, Jason, I think, what were you 12 when you came here? Come on, come on. This is. You acted like you were 12 when you finally hit that thousand yard target. Jumping around, dancing around. Hey, well there's, when you hit something like that, there's something about, um, being on the top of a hill and feeling like if you glass it, you can kill it. And, uh, just, there's something about it. And you introduced me to that. I just got done. In 2003, I shot a, uh, 237 buck and, and I made a 400 yard shot, barely got it, got the job done. And then I think it was the next year, 05, 06 ish, something like that. I think it was 05. You know, I went and shot with you and, uh, realized that, you know, it was child's play. Shooting that bucket 400 was child's play for a guy like you. So. The whole thing I try to do is just simplify it and we still are way simple.

I mean, simplicity is what it's all about. So. Yeah. It's incredible. Uh, you know, wealth of knowledge and information there. So anybody that's interested, uh, Thompson long range, 1-800-584-4079. Um, anyway, you can shoot the old standard bullets. Of course, there's some exciting stuff he's got going on with, with whatnot. You heard it folks. Uh, you might want to go out and check it out. Um, anything else, Mark? No, I think that's it. Get to work. Get out of the office. Tell us, tell us. Uh. Sounds like there's enough of you sitting there. You ought to be spread out a little bit. Yeah. We're, listen. Four and a half feet. We're done. We're done having a boss. Quit telling us what to do. Hey, uh, tell us real quick. You smoked a giant buck up there in Idaho. Congratulations. You've featured in this, uh, latest issue of Epic Outdoors. Uh. Oh, wow. Yeah.

You didn't even know you were in there. No. Didn't know. I'll have to check that out. He looks, he looks 210 inch typical. He looks freaking awesome. Of course, you're good at taking photos. What was it? He was a big deer. You got to stretch. You got to stretch back a little bit. Lengthen your arms like everybody does. He's a great deer, though. He was a 193. Yeah. He's a great buck. Great buck. General season. Yep. And you and Scotty, you guys have crushed a bunch of big bucks across the border there in Idaho. So. Over the counter tag in Idaho. Well, good job. Thank you. Okay. All right, everybody. Thompson Long Range, 1-800-584-4079. Mark or Scott there. Super good guys. Appreciate you taking some time, Mark. All right. Thanks, you guys. Spread out. Talk to you later. See you. That's a new group. That's a new way to say goodbye is spread out. Did you hear that? Spread out.

Do good things.

Social distance. Social distance. Years in the force. Spread out. Okay. Anybody that's interested in that course as well, we've got a pretty extensive review of that on our YouTube channel. If you go to YouTube, Epic Outdoors, slash Epic Outdoors, you can see what it's all about. Such a great guy. Mark's a good dude. He is a smart guy, though. He can roll out anything. Yeah, he is. Well, he's perfect for a cold call. He can just roll with it. He's good. Yeah. Who else? Well, should we give old Josh Horrocks a call? He's a freaking funny guy. He is. One of the things about Josh periodically, when we call him about openings that he does, he's an outfitter in northeastern Utah.

He usually has some country music song as his ringtone. It's like Charlie's Daniels Band. What's it going to be today? Like it's Alabama. Is it Alabama right now, you think? Mountain music? It has been. I just, sometimes it's something different. So let's see what it is. What do you think he's got going? It's almost May. Even if he doesn't answer. Huh? No way he's hunting turkeys. No. Let's give him some grief. He's bear season. They're waking up. He hates, like, archery hunters. He loves powder and teases us about archery hunting. Here we go. Let's see.

Whoa. No country. Alabama. Alabama. No.

Hey, what's up, man? Hey, how's claws and paws outfitters doing? Oh, good.

Hey, buddy. Hey, this is the Epic Outdoors crew. We got you on a podcast today. We've just cold calling you. We had a running joke. It's usually Alabama or something as a ringtone, but you got a little heavy stuff playing there now. Oh, my kids are always playing with it, and I don't know how to change it. It's usually some kind of fairytale music going on for a while. We're just wondering if you're going through a midlife crisis, trying to find yourself after lion season. No. No. No, I'm good. We didn't. It begs the question, how long has your hair grown out since we've seen you? That was some heavy metal head binging stuff we just heard, so we might need a recent pick from you just to see what you're looking like now. Yeah. Starting to look like a hippie, for sure. What's new up in the basin? You switching from lions to bears here pretty quick?

Have you been out chasing bears, or what's new? Are you killing turkeys, or what? Well, no turkeys. Still just hunting lions and bears. It's always fun to hunt cougars in the spring, and a couple bear tracks starting to pop up here and there now. Are they? Pick up a few shed horns while following the dogs around. Yeah. Good time of year to be alive. Yeah. Teaching kids. You're running school. Your wife, either she used to be a school teacher. Dude, I'm an avid kid of homeschool. I love it. My kids get up at seven in the morning, and they're in there working, because they know by Wednesday they can have her done, and then we can go hunting and fishing for four days straight. Whoa. Yeah. I love homeschool. I told my wife that today. Is she still a teacher? She didn't agree with me. Or not? She used to be a teacher. Is she still teaching school? Yes.

I imagine you help her out, Josh, Monday through Wednesday. No. You're probably helping her out. No. I get to be by myself those days, but then I get the kids the other four. Yeah. You're taking the kids four out of seven. You're a heck of a dad right there. Jeez. You're making us look bad. That's other dads that don't do four out of seven. You're going to get father and husband of the year award. Oh, I love it.

How's the weather up there? You guys looking good for your moisture? How's things looking? Oh, we had a great year. We didn't get a lot of snow. Our snow was just right. We didn't have any winter kill, and then we've been getting a rainstorm about once or twice a week. Grass has grown up about four inches. Jeez. Shoot, we have had a good year around here for sure. I don't think how it could be any better. Oh, you guys, none of you got corona going on up there? You don't have the coronavirus? People call this place the promised land. Do they? We don't even know what COVID-19 is. Really? Oh, our stores are open down here. Whoa. I've seen on Facebook, your dad's a heavy advocate of keeping businesses going.

Why not?

People want to get sick, they get to choose, right? Yeah. Yeah, we're all going to die sometime.

What new do you got to look forward to? You got anything planned for this fall for you, or is it all contingent upon the Epic Outdoors License Application Service, or do you got anything planned? I guess, did you have anything, you go up north from time to time, you got anything on hold now until this border, Canadian border opens up, or anything like that, or are you just waiting for the draws to come out? Well, last you guys drew me that Kansas tag and killed real nice bucks. I'm hoping to draw that again. I'm not sure what I'm up to draw on points, but I got some buddies up north that's kind of short-lawn hunters, so I'm hoping I can go up there and hunt with them. Yeah. If this stuff stays down, but I'm kind of thinking it's all going to pick up here before too long. Everybody's going to have the itch to go hunting, but if not, maybe I'll go burn up some IOU somewhere else.

So, how's the hunters looking? Have you got people backing out, or overall people pretty solid and set to go this fall? You know, it's been kind of crazy to me. Like, through COVID-19, I've booked a few hunts, you know? Yeah. Still got hunters. Basically, feel the way I do. Yeah, it's a little slow right now, a little scary right now, but come this fall or in another month or two, you know? Yeah. People want to get out and go, so. Yeah. You know, I've had a hunter call and say, well, one hunter did. What happens if I can't leave my hometown, my county, to go on my hunt with you? I says, well, it's a long ways from now, partner, and we'll deal with that if it comes, but everybody's opinion is everybody's opinion. Nobody knows, but for the most part, it seems like to me, most folks feel like, given another month or so, we'll be back to normal.

So, everybody's got the itch to get out and do something, you know? Yep. Well, let's hope that, we hope that too. So, we're all cooped up here in the office here, and that's what happens. We're all, what was that? Well, shoot. Airplane taking off? What was that? I'm driving, walking down the road right now. I've been gone for the last eight days, and I got home yesterday from hunting cougars, and I just got my mail. Oh, you're multitasking. All right. I just didn't know. But shoot, the hunting and fishing's good right now. Shoot, I can go to the lake, and I'm the only one on the lake. Me and my kids out there fishing. How was the waterfowl season? Oh, we pound the waterfowl down here. I mean, there's piles of them. We need to come up. This year was a little bit slower. Up north, I guess, they didn't have a very good winter. Water was still open and stuff.

So, we got like 5,000 bird migration, and we usually have 15,000, but we still did pretty good. You still can't shoot 5,000, so there's still more than you can shoot. Yeah, there's still more than you can shoot, so we're doing fine, huh? Well, did you end up getting a new truck, or were you at that way? No. No, my insurance paid for the power wagon. I mean, Josh. I just been sitting here without a new truck for a while through this COVID-19. Well, I better save a little money, see what's going to happen. The ZR2 still running? Did you end up getting some parts there? Oh, that thing has been in the shop for like three weeks. I just got it back yesterday.

Forgot how much you loved it, though, didn't you? I haven't even seen it yet. We both have one. You love that thing, don't you? Well, kind of. I kind of did it the first, you know, but now I'm kind of thinking, shoot, for the same gas mileage, I can drive a full-size truck that'll pull a gooseneck horse trailer a little better, you know? So, I don't know if I move the small truck again or not. You need one of each, I'm telling you. Well, that's what I had. I'm going to have to do something again here before too long. I'll keep borrowing the old man's truck to pull a horse trailer. Yeah, he's probably charging you good rent. Well, no, I just dip into that father-son account. Fund? Yeah. Daddy fund. That's what I call it. The daddy fund account. I think that was sitting at zero years ago. No? Yeah, you never have to pay the old man back. You're a family. For sure the same name.

That's why families get along so well right there.

We finally got the famous Josh Horick's laugh. All right, we can hang up now, boys. We got it.

Everything's good now. It's a Friday afternoon and we got Josh to laugh. There we go. Oh, yeah. We got a belly laugh cackle.

Why not? All right. Well, thanks for being a good sport. We're just cooped up Friday afternoon and just finishing a podcast. You popped into our head. You're always good for a talk and chat and get out there and kill some bears and lions and taking care of hunters. So, appreciate your time, boss. All right, Claus and Boz. Thanks for calling. You two just keep dinking off. It's fun when you call. All right. Maintain your social distancing over there, would you? Okay. All right. That's no problem. All right. All right. We'll see you. Yeah. One of a kind. He is. He's awesome. Oh, the intro of the music couldn't have been better. That was not scripted. It was night. I've never heard heavy metal, though. No. That's funny stuff. And his kids are getting a little older. They are probably farting with his phone. I don't know. I don't know. You think that was his doing? I don't know.

That was uncharacteristic. I mean, if anybody knows Josh, that was a little uncharacteristic. I could see one of his kids messing around with that. What do we do? He claims he doesn't know how to do anything technologically speaking, but he does. He does. Well, everybody, is there anything else we want to talk about? We've had a few draws come out. We're super excited. We're finishing up a few application processes here at Epic Outdoors. We're applying guys like it's our freaking job. John, you're drawing tags like it's your job. Yeah, like never happened before. Good, yeah. I don't know what it's like to draw a tag. John's out of Mexico. It's awesome. Anyway. It's the first tag I've drawn that's been, you know, not I've got a lot of points or something like that. Yeah. Because there's no point system, but, man. Pretty fun. Pretty fun. Hurt an arch trail. Yep.

We're all looking forward to the next day. So we can hopefully forget about New Mexico because it slammed the door in our face. So May is a giant month. We're closing in on May. It's crazy to think we're almost to May 1st. But, yeah, May, we've moved for a couple. May's always been a big month. And then now you move Wyoming elk results to May that used to be in February. And we pull Montana moose, sheep, goat results that used to be in June up into May because they did away with paper apps and now they're getting them out quicker. The list is unbelievable. May is a blast. Nevada's going to be due and come out. That's right. Utah's coming out. Utah's coming out. Colorado moose, sheep, and goat. It's going to come out. And then, you know, towards the end, you know, Idaho moose, sheep, and goat will be out at the end of May. I know I'm forgetting some. But, anyway, it's a crazy month.

So, anyway. So, anybody, if you draw tags, you give us a holler. We work with outfitters. Devin? Yep. All day, every day. All day, every day. That's what Devin's doing, maintaining openings. You want some tags. Our hunts with guaranteed tags, we've got that too. Yep. We're actually seeing a few openings. But, honestly, people are excited to go hunting this fall. I'm not seeing a mass exodus yet. No. No. Lots of calls. I mean, the calls are getting. We're ready to hunt, man. The closer fall comes, the more calls we get, and we're just ready to go. We're also selling optics. And so, anyway, if you want some optics, again, we have some great pricing. Talk to any of us here, and we'll get you some pricing on some great optics. So, it's kind of exciting. May's awesome. We're seeing the light at the end of the application tunnel, getting ready to get out there and get scouting.

I'm sure all of you are feeling the same way. We've also launching our summer membership drive. We're excited about that as well. Check it out online. It's in our latest eMag. We'll drop an email or two. Yep. Any of this stuff we can help you with, give us a call, 435-263-0777. Join, or if you are a member, you've got member experience lists that we can send out to you. Or if you draw a tag, you need an outfit or recommendation. Or if you don't draw tags and you want to look for some kind of a hunt, give Devin or any of us here a call. We can definitely keep on top of it until we find what you're looking for. So, anyway. I probably want to plug why the draws are coming out, our member experience program. If you do draw a tag, give us a call, and we can send you a list of other members who are willing to give out information on that unit. That's right.

We'll do a little research in our database and get that out to you for your charge part of the membership. Just haven't heard much from Wyatt today. You got anything to add, Wyatt? No, no. I'm pretty quiet over here. Wyatt's hoping he gets skipped by. I know. That's what he always hopes. And I'm trying to give him his time. You guys are just too good at this. You guys can't keep it rolling. We just don't really need a lot of input from anyone else. So, I just kind of sit here and laugh along with the rest of you. We did have a dozen donuts show up, and I'm seeing a piece of donut on your shirt. You are, yeah. Did you have glazed? That's a glazed. That's glazed. He's had a glazed donut. Glazed donut, yeah.

Wow. Some old man dropped by today with a box of donuts. Wow. Good catch there. He did buy a hat and dropped off some donuts. Good flake of glazed sugar. You'd be darn lucky to beat Wyatt to the dinner table on a donut in there. We were doing a different podcast, I believe, and so we came out, and there were a few missing. So, must have been good. We love giving Wyatt a little grief. He thought he was going to get through unscathed. Huh? He's been applying people just sticking to his business, and we appreciate that good. We've got a good team here at Epic Outdoors. So, anyway, if we can help you in the application process, we can help you find outfitters, get your member draw list, whatever. We do it. If it's Western big game, we do it here at Epic Outdoors. Give us a holler. I also want to give a shout-out to our advertisers at PhoneScope.

Appreciate their partnership with us here at Epic Outdoors. One of these, you know, perfect tools for every hunter for digiscoping. Capture all the moments in the field with your smartphone and your optics. Whatever that is, whatever your phone model is or your optics type is, they've got something to fit your smartphone to be able to hook up to your optics and capture great footage or still pictures as you're scouting and planning for your hunts. So, check them out. PhoneScope, P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. Appreciate their support. Awesome tool for all of us here at Epic Outdoors. Okay. All those of you out there that run cameras, trail cameras on waters or bait or different things, make sure you think about Stealth Cam. We're a dealer of Stealth Cam. We believe in their product. We run lots and lots of their cameras.

So, anyway, for more information about Stealth Cam products, go to StealthCam.com, GSMOutdoors.com. They've got a lot of different products out there. Great partner of ours here at Epic Outdoors. We believe in them heavy. We've got a lot of cameras in stock if you're looking for one. They also came out with a Fusion Cellular Simplified available in AT&T as well as Verizon. We've got some Verizon cams headed our way at some point. New technology, kind of exciting. We're excited to give them a try. So, anyway, for more information, go to StealthCam.com, GSMOutdoors.com, or give us a holler here at Epic Outdoors.