EP 173: Brand new from Swarovski, the NL Pure with Colby Kroff

Entirely new optical system, best binocular we've ever produced. How they feel, how they rest, how they fit your hands. Everything about them is a big deal. My eyes could see eight power. It feels like that's what it would see. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson coming at you from Southern Utah. It's hot out there, Bronson. It's summer's here, there's no question. Geez, went out there and sweated to death in about ten minutes. Came back inside. That's right. Bald guy like me needs sunscreen in ten minutes. Yeah, for sure. No question about it. Trail camera season, been out and about. Hope everybody's getting out, pre-scouting. It's crazy. My wife hates it when we say pre-scouting. You're supposed to say scouting. I know, but it means more for some reason. Scouting, she says, is pre-season looking. Scouting, so she's like, I don't get it. It's not proper English. English, but we told her we're talking to hunters. And hunters aren't proper? We aren't. And so we say pre-scouting. We overwrite her and go to print.

Anyway, we'd like to say thanks to Under Armour. We appreciate them. They've actually started loading their website. UA.com. You can go on there and see what's going on for this year's models. There's a lot of new stuff on there. They're going to keep on loading it. Kind of awesome. It's that time of year. Gear is kind of on the forefront of everybody's minds. And today, speaking of gear, we got the head honcho at Swarovski. Right? For Utah, I don't know how big. He can clarify that. But we'll just call him the head honcho. Depends on who you ask. Build him up a little bit. Depends on who you ask. The main guy for at least who we answer to. Colby Croft, Swarovski rep here in Utah. Where else? Is it community? Utah, Idaho, part of Montana. Gotcha. Alberta, Saskatchewan. Jeez. Yep. We had a big season. Tell us how you get up there to check on your dealers. You don't now.

You don't right now. Phone and email, huh? Yeah. Yeah, but I make a few trips up there a year. It's a good country for us. Yeah. Around hunting season? Yep. Exactly. I was going to say. Yeah, try to stay away from there. November and the white-tail rut. Try to stay away from there in January. It's a little chilly. Oh, yeah. No, we appreciate you coming down. No worries. Thanks for having me. Colby wanted to stop by, show us some new product. Colby, I want to let you introduce what we've got going on here. Of course, most of you that are listening have probably seen it on our social media and everybody's social media. It's kind of the big news in the optics world. Go ahead. That's right. It's been about 15 years or so or even more since we've launched a full-size binocular and we've launched our NL Pure last week. It is an entirely new optical system.

It's our flagship binocular, best binocular we've ever produced from every measureable, every measure, every way you can measure it. And it'll be our new flagship binocular going forward. It's available in an 8-power, a 10-power, and a 12-power. Completely unique optical system. Provides way wider field of view than anything we've ever produced. And it's just a spectacular binocular. Great ergonomics. And we're really looking forward to getting them out there. Heard that word a lot, ergonomics. You know, just the fit, feel, all that. But that is a fact with these. I love them. They have a little narrowing. I don't know what you call that. A dimple? What is that? It's a waste. It's a spot for my thumbs. It's a waste in the middle. And, man, your fingers. You've got a place to put your thumbs. Yeah. And I use my middle finger around the top. They just go around it perfectly right there.

I don't know. There's something about it. But very smooth. Part of what we do when we design products like that is we actually consider all of that. How does it look? How does it feel? Not only is it optically, because that stuff is something we're really good at either way. But how does it fit in your hand? And how does it balance? And how does it, you know? Yeah. If you don't compromise any of the optical stuff. Correct. But you can make it a better feeling, you know, more comfortable, which this does. It's pretty amazing. And one thing, you mentioned it here, you brushed over it fast, but you make it an 8, a 10, and a 12. Correct. All by 42. Correct. The unique thing about this that I feel is way worth mentioning is that it's the same size and weight within an ounce. I mean, we're just going to call it same weight and size. They don't get progressively bigger from an 8 to a 10 to a 12.

Right. Exactly. And with this optical design and this wide field of view, a 12 by 42 is going to be a pretty impressive binocular. Well, we were talking about that, and what I think is crazy, so if we're talking about the 15s, the 15s are an SLC, high def SLC. Sure. Yep. And then you've got the ELs. Next step up. Which is a next step up, but they didn't make that in the 15s. Correct. And then now we've got the NLs, which obviously won't be in a 15, but I think the difference, and Bronson, correct me if I'm wrong, we're looking through 8s, and we're looking at miles away up on the mountain right here behind our little hometown of Cedar. And I would not have guessed I was looking through 8s. No. With the wider field of view, and I know there's some goofy name for it. It appeared that you were looking through 10, 11, 12 power binoculars. It was unbelievable. Yep.

And again, we're looking through 8s because that's all we have, right? Right. That's all we've got so far. So anyway, this, you know, unbelievable. And so I can only imagine looking through 12s with the new NL Pure configuration that you're actually going to feel like you can see better than, say, three more power of a 15. Yeah, I agree. A really wide field of view in a 12 power is going to be very, very easy to use and easy to find stuff with, and you can sit behind it all day. Yeah, and that's what I think. I think the only deterrent in the past over the 12 ELs versus the 10s is there is a size change. You know, the objective line, a little bit heavier and bigger. Yep. And then you run the, oh, is that comfortable hold, hand hold, or do you always better have a tripod with you? Those are the questions you always have in your mind.

With 15s, you immediately go, you've got to have a tripod. You need a tripod. You don't, you hand hold them in a pinch, but you always use them on a tripod. That's right. These, because of the slight, I'm going to call them slight, slight build. They are slight. They are not a big barreled thing. They fit your hand well. In fact, they don't even, they look like 32s. Yes. They look like a 32 objective. Yeah, they do. And so I think. They're very slim. I think that feel and to be able to just bury into them with 12s, I don't think you're going to have the jitter, the jitter motion as much as, as normal 12s handheld. That's my, my gut feel. I think you could get by. It's going to be interesting to see, but I think there's going to be less difference between 10 and 12 when you get them in your hands. Yeah. I'm one of those guys that can't hold a pair of 12 steady, handheld them. Yeah.

So I've, I've tried and I've hunted with 12s and tried to hold them steady in my hand and I just can't do it. So I put my 12s on a tripod. Oh, try. On the 12 by 42 NL Pure, it has an accessory, a forehead rest accessory that you can get separately that creates another touch point. So now you have the eye caps touching your eyes and that forehead rest touching your forehead. For eights, tens, twelves, whatever you choose. Yeah, exactly. Obviously same body. But I'm excited to see the twelves with the forehead rest. It's going to be pretty incredible. I'm not only excited, I've, I've, I'm on the list to get maybe the first or second pair, depending on. Depending on where you are when the boat hits the East Coast or the plane. Bronson usually accepts the packages. I mean, he's waiting. He watches for the UPS guy. The UPS guy, I meet him at the door.

Not the door of our office, at the door of his truck. Yes. And if I, if I happen to get the tracking and I, and I forward it to Bronson, there's nothing else that gets done in his office that day. He's watching, and that's not true. Well. But it's an exciting part of our day, and that's sad to say, isn't it? Well, it's summer too, though. The grind of writing statistics and columns and all that is, is behind us a little bit. So it's, you look forward to the mail. Tags in the mailbox or optics at your front pair of porch. Shouldn't you be out pre-scouting? Yeah, pre-scouting. That's right. We are. We're going to pre-scout the new optics coming in. I'll tell you that. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to have a pair of tens and twelves. No question. Babe, I'm getting tens and twelves. No matter what. One of them, just tell her right now, one of them's for her.

Whichever one you'd like to do better is for you. Yeah, one of them's for you. Whatever one's on the dash that I'm not using is for you, babe. Well, and the one thing, I guess, to talk about this, the date that you guys have said for the arrival is early September, I believe. Correct. Yeah, start shipping early September. Yeah. Yeah. So, you should, for a lot of the hunts that are still going to be this fall, should be able to get these. But it's going to be key to get on a pre-order list. So, we've asked our members to do that. Obviously, it's going to be a first come, first serve. We don't anticipate some of the log jams maybe that went on with the BTX and others. But still, don't delay if you're going to want to upgrade or you're thinking upgrade. You already have ELs. You want to get something new, different, the best of the best. You hold them. I mean. It's different. It's like home.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just such a good feel to it. Snuggling into them because, quite frankly, we're behind the glass. When it's go time, you're three hours in the morning, three hours in the evening. And if you're on an animal, you might be six, eight hours a day. Yeah. You know, trading off, you're sitting next to a guy or whatever, and you're trading off watching an animal while somebody's stalking them or whatever. And it's a big deal how they feel, how they fit your eye sockets, your hands. Everything about them is a big deal. When we first launched the EL with that open bridge design that the EL has, it was revolutionary back in the day. And that's what everybody loved about it was the ergonomics. The hinge wasn't where you put your hands. You could get your hand all the way around it. It's similar ergonomics here, but it's actually shaped to fit the image. It does.

It's got those indentations on the outside to allow you can complete the circle. Yeah, I've got little tiny hands, and it feels good. Yeah, it feels good. So anyway, super excited. One thing, too, if you remember, Bronson, going from the SLC, and we've always, you're sheep hunting, deer hunting. You want the best of the best. We had the SLCs. Then they go to the ELs, and it was such a wow factor. Just mind-blowing, the difference. Yeah. Noticeable jump. And I feel like there's a mind-blowing difference. Well, and we've talked to people, and I know, Colby, you said you've got calls, too, for people that we all have the ELs right now. And their first question is, are these better than the ELs? Or how can you ever make them better? And you're like, just trust me, they are. Yeah, for sure. And they are. There's no question.

And they go ahead and quantify that, and it's pretty hard to put it into words. Color, clarity, field of view. Right. The power difference because of the field of view. Right. Which, an 8's an 8, right? But it's not. Right. An 8's not an 8. If it's crisp and the colors are awesome, it feels more like a 10. And that's what I would say about these 8's. Well, and like the field of view, there's that weird word that basically if you have a bigger field of view, it actually feels like there's more power. That's what's going on here. Right. Exactly. And, you know, our motto is constantly improving that, which is good, right? Always trying to build on what we have. And so when people say, is it better than the EL? That's a pretty bold statement to say it's better than the EL. That's been your flagship. But you're not going to come out with a new one that's worse. No. Exactly. No. Yeah.

It's been 15 or 20 years, whatever you said earlier. Constantly improving, yeah. And it's taken you this long with the technological changes or whatever in your industry to say, all right, this will do it. This is a noticeable jump. Otherwise, there's no reason even launching something. There's no reason to do it, right? If it's a tiny little incremental jump, then you can't tell the difference. It doesn't make any sense. So rather than just revamp something we've already had, this is a from scratch, from the ground up, complete redesign. Pretty awesome. Unique binocular, nothing like it. To compare it to an EL, a comparable magnification range, it's got about 20% wider field of view. And field of view, of course, is the amount of country you can see at any given time you're looking through it. Without moving. Without moving, right.

And so your eyeballs are like your feet, and you guys know this. If you can sit behind your glass and look around in that field of view rather than gluing yourself to the middle of it and moving the binocular around, it's way more comfortable. So this should be, even in that regard, a vast improvement. You'll be able to stay behind it longer, leave it in one place, not get it wiggling around, and just pick that country apart. And then you add the crispness and the clarity and the color to all of that, and it just all results in more game spotted. And that's going to happen. Color's a big deal, right? You look at antlers in sagebrush, right? Antler tips in sagebrush. If you don't have good color separation. Color's how you see. It's just how you see. You can pick them out. And you could use, say, even a pair of eights at longer distances if you can see color differentiation.

That's how you're spotting stuff. I go coos deer hunting with a guy who uses eights. Well, he's using 15s now, but he used to just use eights, and he didn't miss a thing. So I guess why we're on the subject, and I was going to go a different direction for a quick second, but why we're on the subject of eights? Because you're a professional, and this is your industry. Why the eights versus the tens? Now, there's a lot of guys that will ask us, and at the end of the day, Bronson and I, I mean, bigger's better. We're out in the wide open expanse of the West. Well, we live here in the West, and for a lot of the white-tailed world especially, yeah, you're sitting in a tree or blind. You can't see a deer until it's within 100 yards anyway, so a bigger field of view and all that with an eight power is better. You don't need to be zoomed in tight on anything.

But what are some maybe other things that maybe? Well, and the numbers don't come from nowhere, right? There's a reason there's an eight by 42. That is the right ratio for the human eye as far as exit pupil goes, right? So an eight by 42 is the right ratio of magnification to objective lens to give you an appropriate exit pupil for the human eye in all lighting conditions. Versus the ten? Yes, the ten. So the eight, in technicality, technical speaking, the eight is made for human eye the best. Exactly. Eye the best. The best. And the ten is a little bit of a compromise, but it's a compromise most people are willing to. In fact, the vast majority of people are willing to live with because you get a little bit more magnification. And the loss of exit pupil doesn't really, especially with a high quality optic, it's not like it's cutting off the last half hour of the day. You can't use it.

It's cutting off a tiny, teeny bit. Minutes or whatever we're talking about. For sure. Yeah. But with a high quality optic, you can see in the dark anyway, essentially, right? You can see past legal shooting light anyway. So the ten by 42 is a bit of a tradeoff. Same size housing, a little bit more magnification, but a little bit less light, right? Okay. So we sell, by and large, ten by 42 is way over eight by 40. I'm a eight by 42 guy. You're an eight. Oh, yeah. I am. I feel like if I need more than eight, I need way more than ten. You need 15. Yeah. So I carry eights and 15s, right? So that's a good compromise for me. I feel like we're almost like in relation to rifle calibers. I feel like I'm a 30 caliber guy. Bigger's better. But a lot of guys could say, yeah, but the 7mm and the 28 nozzler and this and that. And they're probably right. But still, for me, bigger's better.

And that's not necessarily the case. Yeah. And the other thing, too, is with the increased field of view of this binocular over the EL, a ten by 42 in this binocular is going to have a similar field of view to an eight by 42 in an EL or another binocular, right? So you're going to get the benefit of that wider field of view, but you're going to have a little more magnification. So, you know, sitting in a tree stand in the Midwest, you really don't need to see further than a couple hundred yards. You're looking onto the next farm anyway. But you want to see after shooting. Like you're getting out of that tree stand after dark. Yeah. But normally the downside to a high magnification is narrow field of view. Yeah, that's right. So you're not seeing a big bunch of country. You're seeing what you're looking at.

And you want to pivot your head as much, less movement, whatever, all that kind of stuff. So who knows? But yeah, everybody's different, but I prefer eight by 42s. And that's what I use the most. But we sell mostly 10 by 42s. So hey, but hey, anybody that's listening, we'll sell you eights, tens, twelves. Whatever you want. Let's do the whole thing. We could call it a trio. What are we going to name it? The epic trio. And not a huge. The hat trick. The EL hat trick. And there's not going to be a huge price difference. That's one thing. And that's partially because of what we talked about earlier. The housing and the body of these is the same. All the same housing. So you're not, you know, normally when you look at, like, let's say the 8x30 SLCs and 10x42s and all that, there's a pretty good jump on each one of those dollar mountlers. There's really not on these.

There's a difference in glass, too. And I think these. Yeah, so pick the one that fits you the best. They're really going to be all within a fairly tight price point. Well, Colby, you mentioned, too, like maybe even the glass is the same, but it's the way it's positioned in there giving you the power differences. That's why it's got the same exact components, let's say. Length, weight, and everything. Size. Yeah, from 12 to 8 to, yeah. Which is why the price is roughly the same. Yeah, exactly. It's essentially the same parts put in there. They're just put in there a little bit different relationship to change the magnification. The other thing also is that everybody's looking for that kind of one do-everything binocular because they're very expensive and maybe you can't have two or three different pair, right?

So that 12 by 42, if it, you know, we haven't, none of us have looked through it yet. It's still on its way over here. We want to be the first. Yeah, you got it. No problem. So, but it may be one that you can use for all of those things, right? Your carry around binocular, your tripod binocular. Yeah. It might be that. If you don't want to buy a pair of 15s and 10 ELs or something like that. Yeah, for sure. Maybe that bridges that gap. So the versatility may be there to be able to do that. So we're going to have the question. Wonder if they're going to get, what, are they going to make him an orange like the other EL? Hey, I was going to ask that because we've been selling a couple of oranges. We have. You know what? People love the orange. We're like, why would people want it? And every time they say, so I won't lose them. That's what everybody tells us for sure.

Well, we've had colorblind guys. Yeah. And maybe it's brighter to them. I don't know. But I kind of like them because it's different, you know? Yeah. For sure. But you know what? My take on that, I like their orange ones as well. My buddy is a big Denver Broncos fan. Oh, okay. He loves the orange ones. Going to the Broncos games. He had to have the orange ones. But I wonder what the resale is on orange. Probably pretty poor. You're dealing with less than 3%, 2% of the people would want them. That's like buying a red truck. I don't know. The resale is a little tough. That's the thing. If you buy a Ferrari, you get a red one. If you buy a Swarovski, you might want to just get the green. That's right. Especially if sometime down the road you're like, that's right. That's right. But no, for right now, no plan to do it. Yeah. All right. One thing I did want to bring up.

We're going to get the question. We've already had the question. Am I going to want to trade up? Do I want to jump? Yes, you do. Yes, for sure. And this is a lot of, we've talked about this, Adam, a bit.

Swarovski is like Toyota. In the respect, they maintain their value. Absolutely. You can sell your freaking binos not much less than you paid two or three years ago. Absolutely. If it's 5 or 10, it's with some of the, sometimes they appreciate with inflation. And you can sometimes, I'm not saying, sell them for the same price you bought them at if it's 5 or 6 years down the road. If they're in great condition. And if you're a member here at Epic Outdoors, we'll make sure you can buy right, so you can sell right. Oh, yeah. You will buy right. And there's plenty of places to sell. If you buy them right, you can sell them right. Yeah. But I'm just saying, again, they're an investment. They're an investment. They're absolutely. Just like a gun and a safe. It's an heirloom quality binocular. If you don't sell it sometime down the road, you can give it to your kids and they're going to use it.

And it's going to be a viable bino 10, 20 years from now. They are. Remember the first deals that came out? When was that? Late 90s, early 2000. 2000-ish. Yeah. Somewhere in there. Okay. I still have my pair. They're dented on the housing. But I'm telling you, they're up. I don't know. Why would you get rid of them either? You've got kids and some day grandkids. I mean, everybody needs buying them. It's better than anything they got. Yeah. So I'm just saying, if you do keep them in the family, not a bad choice. It's not a bad problem either. If you need to sell them, there's an option there too. Well, and we, unlike some optics manufacturers, there's some middle tier optics manufacturers that really don't make the stuff that they sell, right? That's common in most industries. We actually are the designer, prototyper, whatever word you want to use, manufacturer. In-house. In-house.

Everything's in-house. Yeah. It's a family company in Austria building everything in-house. And we feel like that's the most expensive way to do it, quite honestly. But we also feel like it's the best way to completely ensure the quality of the product. I was going to say, maintain your quality control. No one else is messing with it. It's just us. So talking about family, most people would look from the outside looking in would say, I know you're a giant company and maybe you can't say, what are we, we're dealing with just in the U.S. employee-wise for Swarrow. About a hundred. Yeah. In the U.S. Not giant. No, no. I mean, it surprised us, you know, when we. We're sitting at 15% of what Swarrow is. Hear it up. Okay. And we're talking 30 yards across this. Yeah. Right. So anyway, I'm just saying, family-owned is family-owned. For sure. Yep.

And most of those folks have been with us for a really long time. And the majority of them work in either our repair department or our assembly department. We assemble a lot of our rifle scopes in our own facility. In the U.S. In Rhode Island. Yeah, for sure. Ship the parts over from Austria and put them together in Rhode Island. It's way less expensive for the user. But the vinyls and everything are done over there. 100% made in Austria. Yeah. So most of those people are in shipping or, you know, we have an HR department. Repair. There's something. So we have about 15, I think, salespeople out in the field covering the whole U.S. and Canada. I would have guessed you had 1,000, 1,500. You would just naturally think that. Yeah. It's not the case. Geez. Wow. Well, that's impressive. I think we're up to about 700 or 800 employees worldwide. And that's counting the big. Total worldwide. Yeah.

Well, that's quite a business model. Been in business for 70 years. 70. Well, I do want to say, you know, we looked through these today. And blown away is almost an understatement. Unbelievable what these vinyls feel like. Look through everything. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Tell me I'm wrong. No. Looking forward to putting them to use this fall. There's no question. Because, I mean, if something's better, we're just programmed. You want it. I mean, we haven't had new vinyls since the ELs. I haven't. I mean, I guess we upgraded, what, the SLC had an upgraded HD. Yeah. For the 15s. But that's really the newest thing that I've done on minos is probably that. Yeah. And I got the 1050s. Yeah. And your original EL that you have was a non-Sguaro Vision EL. Yeah. So we came out with a Sguaro Vision. Sguaro Vision. You have those in your range currently. That would be. Yeah. I've got an EL range.

Yeah. And then I've got the 1050s. The 10 by 50s because, and they felt like, I would tell people, they felt like I was looking 3D. Yeah. Like it felt like I was in the field. Wider than you can see. Oh, it was just, they're amazing. Yeah. That's an immersive viewing experience, right? It is. Which is kind of what you get with the BTX. That's the thing that with the BTX, everybody was impressed with, right? It's like, it feels like you're in the image. That's what I get in this NLPure. Even more so, I feel like I'm, it's almost like I'm not looking through binoculars. It's like I'm, it's like my normal eyes just work better. There's very little edge to the field of view. You can see a huge wide swath of country and, and the color's great and the image quality is great. Well, and again, it sounds like we're being salesmen.

I want you, I want to reiterate the fact that we're not being salesmen. This is just the way it is. Colby, you're going to have a job tomorrow. Whether we did this podcast or not, we had to twist your arm to get you in here. It's not about, they're going to sell themselves. Swirl comes out with new products. They're going to sell off the shelves. Again, you guys, you guys kind of planned for quite a, quite a large order. At the same time, they're going to be allocated and they're going to come in stages. And if you want some this fall, you need to call us 435-263-0777. We call it a pre-order. Get on our list. Just going to be the first come first serve. And if we get them in batches of 10 at a time, we'll go down the list. You get them. And oh, you're 12. All right. The next batch comes in, you're getting them. That's just how it's going to work.

So higher up you are on the list, the sooner you'll get them. What's fair is fair. We're fair here at Epic Outdoors. First come first serve. Everybody knows that about us. It's not going to be playing favorites, although I am going to either have number one or two. If Adam beats me to the truck, he'll probably have number one. It's not like a rifle that you help create with somebody and you make serial number one. They're going to not have a number one. No, they're not. I might edge number one in there. But they're not going to have that. But what I think goes back to equipment and the investment. What it is, I think, is we want the best of the best. And this is why. If it costs me an animal because I didn't have quite the right bino or I didn't have quite the right equipment, then mentally, what was that worth to me? What's that worth to you? You put how much money in your gas tank?

How much time off? Usually your investment is as much or more than a pair of binos. And it's hard. Some people look at one pair of binos as a big investment. And it really is not to minimize it. Yeah, for sure. You know, $3,000, $4,000, whatever some of these optics cost, it's a lot of money. However, you look at the cost of a tag in points, the amount of time waited, amount of time scouting, running trail crammers, maybe hired an outfitter. I mean, it's pretty minimal. What have you got into a tag if you applied for 10, 15, 20 years? It's pretty minimal. But my point is, you use this for the next, let's just say, 10 years on all your hunts. It's so easy to pay for that versus an individual hunt trying to get everything out of one hunt. And it's sad. You've got to look at – I look at hunting a little bit like it's a business. You have inflows and outflows.

My inflows are the trophies that you take in, right? The experience, the whole experience of making good on a tag, a desert sheep. Whether it's your kids, hunts, or whatever. Whatever it is, yeah. Yeah, that's the inflow. The outflow is very apparent. We know what the outflow is. And so you just want to make good on that. A nickel more, you can go first class. First class might mean the end experience, the trophy that you're able to take home, the capitalizing on a tag that took you 20 years to draw, 15 years. Maybe you lucked out and drew a strip tag with three points, which we've got guys that did that this year, Bronson. And they're going to want to make good on that because it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. And I think you go back to these once-in-a-lifetime opportunities of making good. Again, investing in products that don't depreciate, how can you go wrong?

You're going to do well in the field. Something happens in three years. You can get rid of them for very nearly what you paid if you buy right. Am I wrong? Nope. Tell me I'm wrong. Anyway, pretty impressive. Can we leave anything else we can talk about that's at least public knowledge enough that's worth talking about or stuff you've got to keep under the hat? We're always working on new stuff. Stay tuned. It's going to be the next six months will be interesting. It's going to be a good time. Good. It's always a good time. We'll have you back. So this is a super exciting product for us for sure. It's been a long time since we've done something like this, especially in a binocular with no rangefinder and whatever, since we've launched a new flagship binocular. It's really hard at this level to make significant changes, to make significant improvements. It's been 20 years.

How can you improve on an EL? That's what everybody wants to know. That's why our products kind of trickle out. We're never first to the market with a lot of new technologies and stuff, but we've got some cool new stuff coming. We always are working on stuff, and we'll always try and make the best stuff we can make. That's great. We'll get it out as soon as we can. We won't compromise quality to be first to market on anything. Kind of like Honda. I was just going to say Honda. Honda was the last one to come out with a side-by-side, and we're like, why? They're four-wheelers. They run forever. They had the big red. It was a one-year deal, and now it's like, I mean, between that and their talent, it feels like they're owning the place because they're just. And I had to buy it to buy a talent. Yeah. Well, and you mentioned Toyota earlier, right? That's a pretty good analog to this.

Like you buy. I've got a 2007 Tacoma that I will be buried in it. Yeah. It doesn't owe me a thing. Well, it had the old V8. Yeah. Right? No, it's a Tacoma. That was six. 2006 was the old V8. And I jump in that thing and drive 10,000 miles tomorrow and not even worry about it. And it's 13 years old. And guess what? It's probably still worth 20 grand. Exactly. Depending on your mileage. At least 10. He bought an 08, just barely used, and just put a little bit of love into it. It's worth over 20 grand. Yeah. It's an 08. And there's pride of ownership there too, right? You know, you trust it. Your experience outside is better. Yeah. You don't have to worry about it failing on you. Same kind of deal with our kind of stuff, right? I mean, it's not going to be the thing you worry about when you go on that Hunt of a Lifetime. It's going to work. Well, it's going to be there.

It's going to be the best thing you can get your hands on, and it's going to perform for you. On the same thing. Come out with power steering last. Well, come on. Who does it? Wishbone suspension. But have you had problems? Do they have problems now since they come out? No. But it's like an old stomper. It's like they perfect it before they come out with it. It's like the old stompers. There's a solid axle. How long did you run on the Henrys with that solid axle? Mono shock. Yeah, until my age caught up with, like, I need a better ride. Because once you hit about 35, you know you're not 21 anymore. That's right. And I need a better ride on my four-wheel. But that thing is still running. Wherever it is, it is still running. Whoever's got it, it's still running. It'll outlive all of us. Probably the same oil. That's why you go on these classifieds.

You look at all the three-wheelers on there. I'm like, how are they running? How are they running? They were the 80s. They were in the 80s. Somebody got sued four times for that one bike. I know. Because it's so dangerous. They're selling them all over the place. I know. You have to scroll through them to find any kind of a good deal on a two-, three-year-old Rubicon that goes in 10 minutes. We need to bring John in here. He bought a three-wheeler. Wow. Who buys a three-wheeler? I don't know. That's the only broken bone in my body. I don't know. I don't know. How we're all alive. We don't know. If you lived through the 80s, my grandpa brought the first Big Red. I don't know how my brother and I survived. Between that and the Fat Cat, they did those in 86, 87. He bought one of those two. He had a Fat Cat and a Big Red. That was the original Big Red.

I went for right on a Fat Cat like four days ago. That's right on the three-wheeler. The Fat Cat. The Fat Cat's still running. And I love the Fat Cat. And they will. They're 200, no clutch, but they do have a shift. I mean, all that. Anyway, whatever. What we say, I always, my coworkers always make fun of me because I constantly say when we're out hunting side by side or whatever, I'll always say, man, we make good stuff. Like it still surprises me. After eight years of working for Swarovski, it still surprises me how good our stuff is sometimes. The other thing I always say is good stuff always works. Yeah. Right. Well, and that's what it goes back to. We're talking about the initial investment. It's a big investment. But when you realize how long you can use that piece of glass in this, whether it be

15s, whether it be these new 10s, and collectively add up all of your scouting and all the hunts that you're going to do in that time and look at the margins where there's sometimes a day, it doesn't matter what bino, a deer stands up at 350 yards, you'll have a piece of crap binos and you can see it. But if you add up all the edges, the early morning, late at night, the long range, whatever thing, and you have a good pair, and you add up all of the edges, you're like, I wouldn't have seen that if I didn't have these. You add them up over your lifetime. It would have cost me a couple 200 inches. I guarantee you. Or cheap and everything. I mean, it's collectively a big, it would be a big list. So that's what we believe in. And granted, people in life, you go through phases of life of teenagers, newlyweds, all that. We all have to graduate up through whatever we're using. We all did it.

And so to the extent possible, buy the best glass you can. Buy the best you can afford. And that's, you know, hey, if you can't afford these yet, totally get that. Totally get that. And we'll help you make a good choice on something you can't afford. If you can afford them, you're going to want them. Okay. Now I want to talk about one other subject. But we've been talking about range finding binos a little bit. But I want to, and I'm the guy, I have range finding binos. But I also want to talk about, I love the best glass I can get no matter what and have a separate range finder too. And I have that. Right. I have that. And I will have a pair of these even though the range finder's not in them. And maybe you can address the fact, why are we not going to get the NL pure in a range finding bino? Or any company for that matter, their range finding binos aren't the best glass they produce.

They might be the best combo. Or it might be a great combo. You're willing to overlook the fact that you're not. Yeah. You're willing to overlook the fact that you don't have the best glass. Yeah. But I want the best of the best. Talk about the mechanics. It's all compromise, right? And a lot of things in optics are compromised. People ask, can you make an optic that won't fail? Well, yes, we can. Because if you drop these 20 feet to the concrete, they're going to break. They might or they might not fail. Yeah, they might or they might not. They're very durable and they'll stand up to whatever you reasonably put them through. But yes, we can make something that will never break, but it's going to weigh 10 pounds and cost 10 grand. So it's all compromises. It needs to be portable. It needs to have good ergonomics. It has to be rugged and reliable.

But it also has to not be too big or too expensive, right? And our stuff's already expensive, right? So there are compromises. So a compromise in a rangefinding binocular, the rangefinder part adds significantly to the cost of it already, especially if it's a good capable rangefinder with some long range capability. So you've got that side of it where it's going to add $800 to $1,000 to the price. So if you put that on top of an already very expensive optical design. Is anybody going to buy it? Because in their mind, they're thinking, oh, I can spend $1,500 less and buy something else that has that. So are you getting to the fact to be cost effective? Yes, exactly. There's a price that the market will bear, right? So sometimes you have to maybe dumb down some other parts of the binocular to get it to a price point that the market will bear. That's one side of it.

The other side of it is there are some things that you have to do optically, compromises you have to make optically to make the laser work, to pass a laser through the glass, to be able to- Or bring it back through the glass. Yeah. Or bring it back. Even if you're not sending through, you're bringing it back through. Or to put a reticle in there that you can see. Like, think about it. Well, the last thing you want in a binocular is a bunch of stray light bouncing around. Impurities of any kind. So batteries. Yeah. Displays. Anything displaying in there is not normal. Correct. You know? Correct. So that's what you're saying. Yeah. And there's some range-finding binoculars, especially some mid-tier ones. You can actually turn them around, look backwards through them, and you can see the grid that that reticle is projected onto is like a big screen you're looking through. Yeah. Wow. Exactly.

And that all- All affects clarity. It affects light gathering. And that's the trade-off we're talking about of, okay, you want the piers, you want pure glass. And that's a pretty cool name, I think, because it feels like it is pure cherry. It's like you said, Adam. You felt like you were seeing what your eye would actually see if there was a magnification. If my eyes could see eight power, it feels like that's what it would see. That's what I felt. It felt like there was no lenses you were looking through. No, nothing. Do you remember? You guys are maybe old enough for this, but you used to go to a concert to hear the band that you liked because it sounded better than the record did, right? Yeah. And then at some point it flip-flopped. Yeah. Now they don't sound as good as the CD. No, they don't. You get them in real life.

The hard thing about an optical system or a magnified image is it's really hard to make it look like it's supposed to look. And there's a lot of compromises that happen inside this binocular, light bending around. To get it to this tide of an object. Exactly. Right. And to see what we're seeing is monumental. You have to do a bunch of stuff to get it to look right. And that's the hard thing. Probably $10 million. Probably. Who knows? $20? $20. I have no idea. Keep going. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe it's just one guy in the back room. It's just one dude in his garage. Special gifted dude. Yeah. I don't know. A savant. A savant in the back room. And he says, the first one, that's going to be it. That's right. Done. This is perfect. So yeah, you hit on that. So yeah, you give something up by having something so perfect, if you want to call that

the most advanced glass with just, hey, visual clarity, brightness, everything else. And then you add something to it, it's going to compromise it. The laser either going through or coming back or projecting and all that. So that's why we don't. When I was hunting and guiding, I took the L ranges. And then I also had the 1050s, and 1050s was all my scouting binder. Yeah. Because I didn't need the range finder. I mean, okay, yeah. Being able to have the best of both worlds, that's great. And it was worth it to me personally. But having said that, I guess as time moves forward, marches forward, and range finders improve, you get to make some choices. You want the best glass and a range finder on the side? And someday maybe we get there, right? Someday maybe we get to the point where it's no compromise at all, and everything works well together, and it's great.

But not saying that a really high quality range finding binocular from any reputable manufacturer is going to be poor optically. No, they're going to be great. They're very good. They're better than anything. Oh, you compare them to the 90s. 10 times better. Yeah, we're splitting hairs a little bit, and they do add a lot of versatility. Versatility. Versatility. Just like you said. I used to do the same. Long before I worked for Swarovski, I carried a range finding binocular made by somebody else, and I carried it all year. I didn't carry it all year long. I carried it during the hunting season, and then I would go back to my ELs, not during the hunting season, because I could see an optical difference, right? But having the range finder on board, I was willing to give up a little bit to get that. During the hunt, especially. And they're a little heavier and all that.

You've been in the heat of battle. Clients and rams, and it is nice to have one unit. Yeah, and be able to follow an animal. Pluses and minuses to everything. Yeah, for sure. It's all trade-offs. I don't know, Bronson. That was a pretty good breakdown. That was great. Cole, we really appreciate you stopping by. We know you've got a big territory like you talked about earlier, and appreciate you stopping. And I think our listeners have learned a lot today. We have as well. So, very impressed. And, yeah. I've learned a couple things. I'm going to be number one or two on 10s and 12s. Put myself on the list right now. So, you pick 10s or 12s. Which one? I'll get the other one. You have to flip a coin. That's right. Draw straws. I'll be number one on the 12s. You'll be number two on the 12s. Take some eights. You just take some eights. See if you can break the bigger's better mold.

See if you're capable. I'm a .30 caliber guy. That's right. I don't know what to say. I'm a V8 big truck. I don't know what to say. Anyway. Thanks again, Colby. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. Appreciate your support of us. I enjoyed it. This first year of our dealership, we're glad to do what we're doing. We talked about it a few months ago. April or March is when we kicked it off. Yeah. What month is it now? It's early July. It hasn't gone very. I mean, it's not long ago. It feels like a long time ago. I guess it really hasn't been. Well, when we first talked to you, I mean, you know. February, May. There was no question in our mind we were going to have a dealership, but I think there was a question in your mind. Not for very long. Our personalities are pretty aggressive. Anyway. We made it happen in short. We appreciate you through the COVID times.

Of course, we started up when COVID started up. Yeah. What a weird time to start a new business venture. Made us slightly nervous, I've got to admit. Yeah, but it hasn't been a problem. It's been good. It's been a good partnership for sure. Okay. All right. We appreciate you. Good luck in your travels. Thank you. All right, everybody. I guess that's it. Let's go back to the office, Bronson. I'm not going outside. Although, it's supposed to be 114 degrees down in the ski. This weekend, yes. Come on. You're going to scout desert sheep. Yeah, but a couple days before that, I think it's supposed to be 107 or 8, so I can handle that. I'm going to scout some deer. When you get to 110 or 12, you and I have done it many times down there. It feels like 15 degrees hotter. That extra five feels like 15 or 20. Take a hair blower, put it on pure hot and high, and put it in your nostrils. That's right.

Good luck with that. I'm headed back north. Yeah. All right. All right. We appreciate you. Thank you. Good travels. Take care.