EP 246: Q&A Part 1

Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, the entire Epic Outdoors crew, well, a good chunk of them. Wyatt, we got you here. It's not a Monday, so we went ahead and did a podcast. Figured you could make it. Tuesday, but I was here Monday. You were. Long before somebody else came strolling in. Devin, Devin, what were you doing over the weekend that made us where you couldn't work on Monday? I got here just a little hour late, hour and a half maybe. Shuffled in? I shuffled on in here. With mustard all over your lips?

Sucking on a French's mustard bottle. What mustard works best for cramping? Okay, now we want to talk about this, Devin, a little bit. Never have we heard of it. Bronson, we've hiked our guts out. Never heard of my life. I always thought. Chris had cramping going on in the middle of the Escalante of epic proportions. Never heard of somebody cramp as much as Chris. John. Chris, remember? Chris was creatined up. Well, that was back when we scouted. Yeah. And he about, Jana went in and he about didn't make it out. I was nervous for him. And then Devin brings to light a home remedy we've never even heard of before. Go ahead, Devin. Well, we did this Spartan race. Like a mountain. Yeah, it was at Snow Basin Ski Resort. Like a Tough Mudder. Yeah, there's 25 obstacles. Tough Mudder. There was some mud. Yeah. Luckily at the very end. But we were going along and we did all these obstacles.

And we're probably about two miles in and my brother's calf just cramps. And he just, boom, on the ground. You know how it feels. Yeah, terrible. Usually it's in my hamstrings. But he's sitting there and this lady's like, are you cramping? And he's like, yeah. And she's like, well, here's a mustard packet. And he just slurps it down and looks at me. He's like, that tasted amazing. My body needed that. Pure mustard? That's disgusting. I like mustard. But, yeah, three, four minutes, he was good to go. It was crazy. I've cramped in my trailer. I've cramped my legs where I'm crying. I mean, I'm not crying. At night. Sleeping? Yeah. I don't know why I don't drink enough water. No. No. That's all the electrolytes you lose. I killed a buck last year and put it all in one pack frame and started to go. And I made it about 50 yards. Your quad. And both my hamstrings were just every step. Yeah.

Now I'm going to have mustard packets. Oh, I'm going to have an entire bottle of it. And after the race, we went to eat. And I did. I tried it. And it tasted. I hate mustard. But, like, I needed it. It was weird. I don't know. So, Wyatt did a little Google search. Our Wikipedia expert, Wyatt, or whoever. Whatever source you turn to. Did a safari search on his new Wazoo iPhone. Fact checker. Yeah. iPhones are still shit, I guess. There's no other way to say it. Okay. Go ahead. That's just what we're going to go with. But, anyway. There's no other way to say it. So, we might have to leave that on the podcast. I think it's fine. But we were going to wonder. Okay. We can talk about this. But I do want to talk about the pros and cons of the iPhone. Like, you hate the alarm. I don't know why. But I want you to start thinking about some of the things you hate.

Well, Samsung, they give you the option. They're like, oh, you're up. You're on your phone. Like, would you like to snooze your alarm? iPhone, no option. It's just like, here. It's going to ring regardless. I think on the Samsung. The Samsung, it knew you were awake, and it wouldn't even do an alarm. Yeah. It always asks you. Your alarm's going to go off in seven minutes. But sometimes, like, I'm setting alarms for all kinds of stuff. Picking kids up at the park or going over here, picking Ashley up from work. You know what I mean? And so, I think these iPhones are made for working folk. What do you think? I don't know about that. And you could set an alarm for the future, too. You could be like, oh, let's have this one go off next Thursday. Thursday. So, if I want one on next Thursday, I would say, I would set the alarm. You'd have to. And to repeat every Thursday. Yep.

And then Thursday comes around, and it hits. It'd have to go off the first Thursday. Then it'd go off the next Thursday. Yeah. Unless it's on your. Who set an alarm for two weeks ahead of time? Well, I don't know. Like, something. Isn't that a different. If we have an appointment for a podcast on a Friday, and it happens to be Monday, you would set a recurring alarm for Friday. And Friday comes up. It hits. You turn it off. You never hear it again. Well, you would use your calendar. That's what I do. Let me talk about that. You hate the calendar. Yesterday. It was yesterday. I had an alert that was Lindsey's birthday. Who's that? On my phone. Come up. An alarm. I don't know who Lindsey is. Then I have, get Wes the keys. Somebody's putting. Somebody is putting stuff on my calendar. Somebody has your Apple ID. I have no idea. Has to. It's a problem I need to solve. It happened yesterday.

Has to. You need to change your Apple ID. I was. One time. I was getting John's stuff on my phone, though. And he was. Remember, he was doing his family stuff. Well, because he added. Okay. Now, that's the other thing. You have a shared calendar with somebody. Maybe. A guy I've never heard of before. Yeah. No. Yeah. But they're putting that notification in the calendar. Your wife might be doing it. Right. I don't know. And then you guys have a shared calendar and it's updating your calendar. I have to tell my wife sometime. Don't put. I think the iPhones are just so smart that the Samsung users aren't used to. I think it's maybe the complete opposite. Because I mean, whoever invented the whatever airdrop. I mean, kudos to them. Huh? They have one or two all right features. After just going on vacation and you have hundreds of photos, which my wife and her sister.

You can airdrop them in minutes. Yeah. A minute. Oh, yeah. Videos. At full resolution. How does this happen? And you don't have to have service. And it doesn't. And the other thing. It doesn't go into your text. You don't have to text them. Right. Which then takes up memory because it's in your text log. You airdrop them. It just goes there. But these guys would contend. You could use an app such as WhatsApp or an airdrop app. Right? There's an airdrop app for Samsung. There's a way of Samsung. Samsung. Yeah. Okay. But nobody owns a Samsung. And so what good's the app? That's exactly why I have an iPhone is because no one here will convert. So now we can see the bubbles. I'm going back. The bubbles are nice. Oh, yeah. The delivered is nice. I know that person had it delivered to their phone. They've intentionally ignored me. Arch is not. Okay.

Well, I guess we're going to have some greens and blues back in the office. Sounds like. One thing that did bother me. I was in the hills. We were at a kill scene. And you know how those are sacred. Kill scenes are kind of sacred. Is this when you lost your phone? It was a little bit of competition. There were some other glassers that didn't glass the buck we smashed. Okay. We smashed the buck. We take a picture. I go to airdrop it and another dude. Was close enough? Was close enough that it came in on my airdrop. How far was he from you? They have to be within yards. So you know somebody's just right there. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I'm like, somebody. Somebody is right here. And I didn't recognize the picture. It was a little profile pic. And I'm like, and I look around and then pretty soon it was gone. I'm like.

Becky got one. It was odd. It was odd. It kind of changed the mood at the kill scene. It was a little bit odd. My wife got one. You know what I mean? Yeah. My wife got one on a cruise ship of this. Somebody airdropped her. That picture.

Well, so when I was on a plane and I was like. She just gets this airdrop. I was on a plane and I was airdropping Jen and I was like, there's 14 options of people to airdrop something. I could airdrop just a funny, just something funny. I don't know. Send some people some memes. Why not? Yeah. And then, you know, you'd lighten people's moods. And there again, iPhone's making people happy. Huh? Wyatt? I don't know if you could make Wyatt happy. The mustard question, the answer is acidic acid. Mustard contains acidic acid. So did it say yes, that's a valid? Yes. Yes. Yellow mustard is the only type. The only type? The type of mustard. So I'm wondering about these packets, Bronson. You know how we went and got honey packets for the Escalante? Yeah. Some of it's fake honey. Like it's not real honey. So I'm wondering about these mustard packets. Is there mustard packets that wouldn't work?

I think mustard's mustard. You do think? Yeah, that mustard. I think if you get Grey Poupon, it's probably not what Wyatt's talking about, right? All I know is that if you had a little mustard packet stand at the top of those hills, you'd sell them for 10 bucks a pop. What if you bought the little 79 cent 10 ounce thing of mustard just as a squeeze? You could just give a dollar a squirt of mustard. Just squeeze? That's the American dream right there. You'd have to still have an idea, following it through to fruition, and then putting cash in your pocket. Second question. I want to put this into perspective. How much does one of those cost at Walmart? They're like 79 cents. Okay. There's not a lot of profit. And you'd do a dollar a squirt. Dude. Smartest thing ever. Buy low, sell high. Bronson. Yeah. Second question about the mustard packet, though. Well, I guess it might be two.

Was it another contestant or like a person, a line judge, if you will? It was another contestant, yeah. Okay. Where did said mustard packet come from? Where does one carry? Okay. No, we talked about Josh's demented mind. Hold on. I have a fanny pack? The last podcast, we talked about Josh's demented mind. Where are you going with it? I'm just thinking. Like, did she pull it out of her bra? No. She had a fanny pack. I had a fanny pack. I had a camel back, like a little tiny. Yeah. It was a dude's sweaty back pocket. That's what I was thinking. If it was just stuck in your spandex somewhere. He would have slurred it down either way. He does not care. I guarantee it. He does not care. It could have came from skinny. Not like you put a roll of duct tape around your body and underneath it has little packets everywhere. So Wyatt came up with an idea.

Maybe we do an epic trip at the Tough Mudder and all of us go compete. That wasn't my idea.

I don't know where that idea came from. But Bronson, no? No. No? Not in. Could be like the total archery challenge, you know? It could be kind of a tradition. We go up there and do some stuff. Injuries before hunts, right, Adam? We discussed this when a bike was in the parking lot the other day. Bronson, I heard. I wasn't here. Wouldn't even get on an electric bike for fear he might hurt an ankle or a toaster or something. Was this a normal e-bike, Wyatt? No. It was a little bit of a souped up one, right? More like a motorcycle. It was pretty quick. Yeah. More like an electric motorcycle. You guys said, Josh, it popped a wheelie with you on it, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I just, it was foreign, and I had an audience, and I just, you. Nothing good could happen. I have little voices in my head said, don't. This is going to cost me a sheep.

It's going to cost me a blown knee in the parking lot. Because I don't have to pedal. I don't know. Whatever. Wyatt's response to going and running one of these was, if you guys happen to ever see me running, you better run, too. Because something is significantly wrong. That's the truth right there. When did you run last? I don't even remember. High school? I've ran since high school. They've got a little treadmill downstairs. You run on a little bit. You do? Not max speed type stuff. Do a little jog here and there. You do a walk? Yeah. A little faster than a walk. Speed walk? Yeah. Speed walk. Pick up the feet. Adam, that excuse doesn't work. Because if you don't do the stuff, you just do 30 burpees. If I don't do one. Or a penalty loop. You have to run up the mountain and back on the loop. Jeez. So there you go. Like if you don't do the monkey bars.

Like, for example, the 16 foot rope climb. You weren't doing it. No. I think I could have done it, but I'm not. Why be a hero? Yeah. So I did 30 burpees. You get to 15 feet and free fall. You're a slick shank all the way to the bottom. Burpees are fine. There you go. I can do burpees. All right. Don't need to pop wheelies on a foreign apparatus. So we're doing a question. Okay. So we're doing a question and answer podcast. Josh, we were supposed to give something away. People that submitted questions, we were doing a little giveaway. Yeah. We were. We've got Vortex sent us a Diamondback HD 2000 range finder. The new ones that they came out with. Let's give this sucker away. You kind of were the gatherer of all the questions. It's dealing with our social media and printed them all out and whatnot. And also, I guess, assigned a. Yeah.

I signed a random number to all the guys that put a thing in for us. And I put on. Put it this way. We got so many. We're not going to get through them all today. And they're pretty solid. I can't believe how solid they are. Good questions. Appreciate the response. Maybe we start off with the winner's question, too. Let's do it. We can do that. Let's got it. So we got them all numbered. We haven't. I got the little spinny wheel of death here. We did this little spin pinwheel thing. There was a couple of those Instagram. You're just going to spin the. A couple Instagram accounts kind of copied this little pinwheel thing. It's pretty cute. Yeah. Here we go. Let's see. See what numbers. You spun it. You spun it. You guys called me. There's a lot of questions. Four. Wow. That was on the first page. So we're going to do the whole first page anyway. Wait. Did you assign a number?

I signed a number. You did? Number four. Jason Federico. Right? Yeah. That's right. All right. All right. Well. Okay. Done deal. We'll start with that one. And we'll plow through as many as we can today. We might have to do another one. And maybe if we do it in round two, we'll give something else a rampant. Jason Federico. You just won a Vortex Diamondback HT2000 Rangefinder. Courtesy of Vortex Optics and Epic Optics. Jeez. Can't beat that. We'll get it in the mail to you. So anyway. Who wants to read his question? Let's kick it off. All right. Well, Josh, since you compile all these, do you want to be our question reader guy? Yeah. I suppose I can. All right. Also known as a narrator.

What are the best state or states to get youth applied for best as in opportunity mixed versus dollar values? Hmm. Good. There's a lot. I think there's pros and cons to multiple states. You know what I mean? Like when I'm looking at my kids, I'm always applying them for Colorado. I can do something with preference points. They've got deer tags on the regular draw. On this secondary draw, they give youth kind of preferential treatment over the adults. And they snag duck tags. Bronson, you snag tags. Josh, your kids snag tags. One dollar license. It's hard to beat, too. Yeah. Yeah. Colorado's a no-brainer. A dollar 25 license and then, you know, what, a nine dollar point for deer elk and antelope. And they don't charge you the sheep, moose, and goat point either as a youth. Yeah. So they're building points for about four, five, six years until they turn 18.

And the cool thing about that, you grab them three points, it transfers into adulthood. They can still apply, elect to not participate in the point system if they don't want to pay for the point. Yeah. And they're eligible to draw. And they'll probably get a couple, two or three weighteds before they turn 18, too. Right. So we do that. That one's a no-brainer. For me, there's no-brainer states to apply them for. But there's some of them that I still apply them. Like, I applied my kids in Washington while they could. Until they're 16. But I didn't think they were going to draw. It's not an opportunity. But for sheep, moose, and goat for $3 and something. Right. Oregon's another one I apply them in until they turn 18 and then I stop. It's not one I ever think. I mean, they do sheep and goats there and maybe a couple premium tags. Super cheap to do it. So get those out of the way.

But let's talk about the ones that are, like, probably you're going to be vested in. Yeah. I mean, I like Nevada. Sean, my kids have drawn a tag or two. It's still tough to draw, but it's super cheap. $15 for the honey license. Pretty cheap. No-brainer there while they're 18. Arizona's the same premise. Similar. Yep. $5 for a license. The question you're going to get in a state like Arizona, Nevada, and we're getting this ourselves, Carter, is it's all great from when they're 10 to 17 in the case of Arizona or 12 to 17 in Nevada. And then when they become an adult and they're vested, they got their five or six points, then what? That's a good question. Then it's $200 a year after that. So if you have six kids. Times how many states? Yeah. And that's what I'm dealing with. That's the big question.

And when I was a kid, my dad took his leg and he bent it, kicked up his foot, and extended it and kicked me off. You know what I mean? And if I wanted it, I got it. And if I didn't, I didn't. And I guess my point was, is back then I felt like it wasn't affordable. I was writing checks on credit card checks to apply. Me too. Remember? Credit card checks. They would take personal checks back then. 0% check. And a credit card check was considered a personal check. So I was writing checks that I couldn't cash. You know what I mean? My dad did the same thing. But nowadays, if I didn't, my kids are into it. A couple of my kids are as into it as any kid I know. But if I kicked them off like that, would they be able to continue the momentum? And I'm not sure they would. So I kind of use it as a Christmas gift. Dad takes care of your applications. Dad takes care of a few.

And here's a letter in the tree. Part of your Christmas is I take care of that. And they love it. They're appreciative. But what do you really do? What do you really do? Yeah, those two states are harder to justify. The word opportunity is harder to do. Unless you're going to do coos deer in Arizona. Or even if you say you're going to do laid elk, that still usually takes 10, 15 points to get them one. It's not really an opportunity. Like Colorado, going back to that. Wyoming, maybe, for deer and antelope. You can go and a handful of points, you can do antelope and deer hunts in those two states. You can't always force that in Nevada and Arizona. No. Sean drew that Arizona elk tag. And I was grateful. We're applying him for the – we're doing turkeys anyway, right? So, we've got the cheap hunting license fee and whatnot. And you're cranking along and grabbing them points.

And remember, we're creative. Once they turn 18, we're trying – they give you the 365-day license. And so, you're – Buy it the days before they turn 18. So, that's good for 365 more days. I mean, you can do everything you can to save a few bucks when you've got 14 kids and whatever. Yeah. Women and children scattered everywhere. And so, anyway, you're just trying to do the best you can to be able to afford this kind of stuff. And it's – again, I'm not complaining. Quite frankly, we live better than we ever lived. As the price of tags have gone up, so has, you know, inflation has caused, you know, wages or whatever other things. But it just feels so expensive. It feels daunting. It is. I mean, in Nevada – Nevada. How much did you spend in Nevada this year for your family? You're over a grand, I'd rather not say. Yeah. Because I'm not complaining. I've got – But I'm saying.

Yeah, I used to have my wife and I and three kids. And I've got one kid, meaning under 18 now, one left. Yeah. So, and Arizona – Arizona's got me. Because by the time you do it from 10 to 17, plus the loyalty and hunter ed, you're about 10 points. Deep. Nine to 10 points into it before they become an adult. And then, you know – I feel like I couldn't quit. And then, you know what – how Arizona's so freaking smart. Yeah. Because they can – you can point boost off your kids. Yeah. Even the non-hunters. The kids that have kind of shied away, you're still buying them points. No. I'm just saying. How smart is that on the state's part, right? Point boost off them twice. Point boost once, grab their points back, do it twice, and their points go to zero. I'm just saying, Bronson. Yeah. So, I don't know.

You mix – then you start adding in states like New Mexico and Idaho that do give youth a price break. There's still not great odds to draw tags in those states, you know. No point system as well. No point system. So, it makes you feel good. And our kids have done some of those in Idaho and whatnot. But they've also increased their junior mentor license like 90-something dollars now. It's not like – it used to be 20-something bucks. So, it's not a – And kids can hunt early in their life. The rules and stipulations with that license, though, too, makes it a little bit more challenging. Well, it's challenging to even understand. Yeah. So – You know what I mean. You know. So, it's still going to be 120-something bucks if they do deer and elk and buy a license up there. It's not cheap like the other states we're talking about.

So – and then I've thrown in – I threw in Wyoming at $10 a point in there. But who knows in the near future? And I know there's a question about that coming up. If that is going to become bang for the buck value there either. Your point weight is probably going to go away. It may not be an opportunity state for kids, you know. But there's tags that we don't even look at now that as things get – as times change and things get tougher, we might actually put some value on the bighorns for deer. Yeah. I saw some great bucks. Have I been back? No. Why? Why haven't I been back? I saw a great buck. I'm just – you know, there's things that we don't even think about now that we'll be like, why did we never go back to some of these places? They're actually pretty good. Yeah. And we'll be glad we grabbed a few points for our kids. I don't know.

I have a really question – a really good question for Wyatt and Devin. What are you guys doing for your kids?

We've been pretty quiet, huh, Wyatt? Yeah. I don't even know how to answer that. I guess we don't have kids. What? Get them on the ground. That's the only way we're going to get tagged, Wyatt. You guys, you've got to get going. Get these kids on the ground so you can have a life after death. Little point boosters. There is life after death. Bronson, you're looking forward to a great life coming up. You've got kids leaving the nest like it's your job. Yeah. Well, my kids are leaving the nest, and I'm just going, hey, this is going to be all right. Yeah. Well, life goes on. Y'all are going to be changing diapers at 70. Might be. Instead of Grandpa Wyatt, we're going to be calling you Daddy Wyatt at 75 years old. Might be.

Well. All right. Well, what are you going to do with your kids?

We've got to get to the kids part first. You know what? Montana closed that loophole where you couldn't get them points in the womb. Yeah. You can't do that. So. They've got to be of age now. Yeah. They've got to be of hunting age. And, you know, glossing over that one. I don't know. That one, if you want a general combo or something like that for a kid, it's not a bad option, but it's a hard one to play the process. I can get over the counter. I've got mine, and I'm going to get Ashley and Justin a deer tag over the counter. I would take advantage of the youth. You tie any bull. Yeah. Try to find some land that way. And then New Mexico hunt dates are pretty awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. The New Mexico hunt dates. The muzzleloader hunts. Even grabbing a landowner tag, it's good for anything, right? So if you're a muzzleloader tag in Unit 15. I used one for Sean one day. Yeah. As a youth.

It was incredible hunt. Unbelievable. Pretty good dates. Yeah. Well, hopefully we gave him something to think about. Yeah. Geez. Really? We spent that kind of time? I know. We can't do that with another 90 questions. We need to move on. Okay. Here we go, then. I was hoping for some more youth stories out of these two, but not going to happen. All right. Josh. Carrie Edwards asks, do you guys think Utah needs to change their bonus point system to 75-25 or maybe an 80-20 split to help with the point creep or leave it the same? What do you think about doing away with it and go to a complete random draw?

Myself, with a lot of deer points, I'd like to see more tags go to the- 75 to the max. It's the upper end there, but then as soon as I lose my deer points, I'm going to be the complete opposite. I like Utah, frankly, and I realize point creep is a problem and more so probably with deer than anything because we only have 1,000 or 1,500 limited entry deer tags. It's just, that's unfortunate. I don't think- Well, premium limited entry, but yeah. Well, premium or limited entry combined. I mean, like you've got deer on Pine Valley, that's limited entry technically anymore. Well, I'm not counting the general. Yeah, he got 70 or 80,000 generals, and I'm talking limited entry or premium. So I like having a shot. I understand the people that waited a long time want to have a better shot, but you're going to draw and then it's going to be a long game or you got kids.

I personally like the 50-50 system in Utah. I don't want to go to complete random now. You've had too long of a buy-in. I think part of us saying that, though, too, is we like all these different systems. Yeah. I like that every state isn't the same. I do like that. There's predictability in some places and there's total unpredictability in places like New Mexico and Idaho. But because it's random, I haven't drawn Jack for a while. Yeah. You know. I actually don't mind the variety. Yeah. But if you're just a Utah guy, period, plain and simple, and I only hunt Utah and I'm going to stay here and I, you know, I can totally see the frustration at times. It's hard. So. But we drew like we drew random this year. I drew random. My kid drew random. Even though it's 50-50 and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of random, people do draw random. My brother drew a random elk tag. Oh, yeah.

It happens. That's right. We got the wonderful expo tags that are going randomly. Yeah. I know. To the same people year after year. Just teasing. It does appear to be similar. You know, that's one thing that almost kind of drives me a little bit crazy, though, is everybody wants to fix the point creep system. And I guess newsflash, I'd like to. We either got to kill hunters. Yeah. Exactly. Or we got to increase the tag numbers. There's really nothing you can do to fix point creep. Every state has it with every system that they have. And there's opportunities to increase drawing odds here and there, but you're not going to fix point creep. I think the answer to some of it is what we were just talking about, like deer in the bighorns in Wyoming, or some of these generals we're not even considering. We're not even considering hunting some places in southern Arizona we know have some big mule

deer. It's not even on the radar. Why are you doing that, Carter? Because even though there's point creep, I have opportunities in other places. And when I don't have opportunities, then we're going to be doing some weird stuff. Nevada's forced us. Forced us to consider some of these odd units. You can't just go for just what you want every year over here. You can't do 241 to 245 for the rest of my life. Yeah. You know? Not again every time. Right. And so then all of a sudden you realize, wow, that unit out of Vegas wasn't so bad. There's a 220 on my wall from it. You know what I mean? Like pretty soon you're starting to realize there are other options, even though mentally sometimes we don't think there's another option other than the strip in Arizona. Yeah, right. And that's why I feel like I want to hunt the strip so bad more than anything. But you know what?

I kind of came to the realization that, you know, I'm never going to. You came to the realization you like coos deer. Yeah. Get weird and hunt weird deer. I don't know. No, but do different things. And you don't have to apply the same in every state. You know, maybe take a state like Arizona and say, I'm going to make it this and hunt it a different way than you would Colorado or somewhere else. Maybe I hunt enough mule there other places. I'm going to start doing something different. And don't treat every state the same and apply for the best of everything in every state. You're going to have to do something different to help your odds. Just nobody else is going to help you with your odds. Anybody else? Devin, do you have any thoughts on this particular question? I like how it is. I don't know how you could change it. Sometimes I'm wondering. You're never going to make everybody happy.

That's just the unfortunate truth. When I read this question, I'm just thinking, I think that people are thinking there needs to be change everywhere. If we're going to change it, how are we going to change it? I'm thinking, I don't know that everything needs to be changed. There's some things I'm okay with. But anyway, there you go. I agree. I agree. I don't think there needs to be change. I agree, too. Same. If there's going to be change, I think it could be maybe some elk seasons and a few other changes other than tag allocations. That'll increase quotas, which could help point creep more than anything adjusting the percentages. That's right. If you just add more elk tags. Most definitely. We can adjust some seasons. If we were hunting elk in September and we were hunting them in November, how many more tags could you get? Maybe you take scopes off muzzle orders.

Now you're going to have a little better drawing odds for guys that are willing to hunt with a primitive weapon. Like it used to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You add some cactus buck hunts, things like that. It just pulls guys, moves guys a different way, adds a few other limit entry tags. I like that. Utah has done a good job of some weird skews. A few five tag late muzzle loaders on general to take your limit entry points. The hams hunts, elk and deer, archery on some of the once in a lifetime. Some odd. Management, cactus buck. Yeah. And one choice counts, right? One choice really counts. There's no leftover tags. So, you know, you got to really choose. I like that too. I think Nevada should go away from the five choices. Everybody doubles up. Especially you get like California bighorn sheep. Every non-resident pretty much puts in for all choices. That's right. Like there's no better odds.

That's right. And that's a bad, you can't play it too hard, but even desert sheep and things like that, they're just, if there's 20 skews. There was one or two choices? Because you'd be able to play some of them. As in deer especially, everybody shoots for the, you know, stars on those first choices or two. If you really only had one choice or two. And I know the residents have really been kind of resistant to that, and that's why it's not changing. But I think part of it is an education standpoint. Think about this, residents of Nevada. If you live in Reno and you had one or two choices, you may not apply for a 241 to 245 as your first choice. You might do the 194, 196, and something else around there. You know what I mean? Maybe 291 or, I don't know, something that's close to you that still has, you know, great potential.

It'd be interesting to know how many fifth choice tags get turned back because guys are like, eh. A lot of them. I'll bet a lot. I'll bet it's most. It'd be interesting. A lot of them are probably fourth and fifth. Fourth and fifth choices. Yep. So. Anyway. Kind of interesting. Good questions. Great question that everybody's thinking about. Everybody in the world is thinking about this kind of stuff. How can I get more tags? How, what needs to change with this system? To allow for more tag availability. So, good question. All right. Okay. Next one. Alan Schultz asks us, do you think Wyoming will be changing all the allocation of non-resident tags for deer, elk, and antelope soon? If so, do you think cashing in your points will be something we will have to do soon? Will Wyoming even be a state worth buying points in? Hmm.

It is going to change. Yeah. I fully expect it to change. I do think that you should consider using your points sooner than later to draw the tag that you're trying to get now. Because if it does go into effect, point creep's going to kick in even worse. To say it's not worth buying points, I wouldn't go that far. But your mindset's completely going to have to change. Like Carter's already mentioned, some of these general deer units that now take zero to one point might take two to three in the future. Who knows? I don't know how they're going to change some of those quotas. Because the general quotas may not actually get cut. Because that's already over the counter for a resident right now. How are you going to cut elk tags for general elk tags? Cut that per se. Right. But antelope especially, you know, things like elk, they're going to get cut.

And so, yeah, use them while you are targeting what you think you're trying to get. Because in a year or two, just like with a moose and sheep, it's going to happen this next year. Your point creep's really going to happen. We've already talked to a lot of guys that are talking about using them. Either in 2022, which means they've already used them, or 2023, knowing that 2024, kind of the anticipated year that that would take effect. So when you apply, anticipate that. Yeah, you're going to have point creep. It's going to creep a lot more than it has in the past. And we've all talked to guys, right, Devin? Like, when you have six points, guys are applying for a six-point unit or maybe a seven-point unit, trying to get the absolute most. And it jumps to eight or nine. And then they call and say, why did it jump to eight or nine? I don't know.

There was a lot of people that wanted to go there. I mean, you know what I mean? It'll be similar to Colorado's late season dates. That's it. Right? And so you're going to have – it's going to increase. So, yeah, anticipate that is what it is. It's going to be – in my mind, it's still going to be worth getting points for if they do have points. They've talked about a lot of different changes, weighted points and random draw, things like that. But I do think you're going to – yeah, you're going to have to change your mindset on what you want. It's going to be a hunt more off an opportunity state after you use your points the first time. I think there's a lot of opportunity and kind of off-the-wall type things there on those general tags, weird units.

And how – you know, and for the – and maybe the potential, real, real potential of the guiding outfitters taking up half of our non-resident quota or, you know, 40%, 40% to 50%. Not set in stone yet, but it's – there's a task force, and they're definitely working that over whether we agree with it or not, which, you know, we could go in for an hour on that. It just is what it is, and it'll further reduce the tags available to, say, a DIY guy or a guided guy like him. You know what I mean? It's going to reduce that much further. I think things are going to get crazy in Wyoming potentially. Is that what you all think? Yeah, I do. It's going to get tough. All right. You're going to have to go to them. Good question. I think Wyoming's – what a great state. I mean, just great opportunity, really cool, you know, state similar to Nevada, very low population of people,

and a lot of wild country and a lot of cool, cool critters. You know, I mean, that wide-open desert country with some big old bulls, bucks, just a great state to hunt in, but it's hard to watch things change, and it's kind of frustrating, but it is what it is. Residents, I think, I don't know. I don't know. Some of these things that are hard to draw for non-residents, just over-the-counter for residents, maybe the answer is they have a little reduction, too, at some point. So, no? I'm sure they're going to say no. All right. Sounds good. Okay. Question reader guy. Neil Gillivan. He asks us, curious what the choices would be if you guys were hunting mule deer and there was the next 300-incher and a new typical world record standing next to each other, which one are you shooting? Let's go around the horn. Everybody has to give their answer. And let's just clarify.

The 300-incher is rubbed, a bony, a bony, non-stag. Bloodline. That's exactly what I was thinking. If it's any shape or form stag, it's in there. No way. No way. I agree. That's what I mean. It's a bony. It's got to have two full testicles. Okay. It has to have a 200-plus-inch frame. Okay. That's right. So, Wyatt is an official BNC score with all the confidence can put his name on the score sheet. Knowing it's going to be paneled 14 different ways. Knowing that it doesn't have a scrap of velvet or anything. Or, yeah. Has marbling. Having said that, a 220-what? Six? No, it's going to be 230s. No. 226. 26 plus four-point or 300-inch. Let's go around. Who's first? Jason. Jason. Do a smash and grab. Both of them. No, no, no. I'm telling you, typicals. So, you know what? This is what I was thinking. But with this particular question, non-typicals, everybody says that book Non-Typical Mule Deer

is the hardest thing to put in a book. Similar to a net book stoner. Van Horn, yeah. Right? And so, but I just don't know if I agree with that. It felt like 10 years ago, you could say that. But any more book typicals are hard. Put a net book typical in the book. You know, I've got one of them. Yeah. Hunted my guts out. Non-typicals have come easier for me. And I just feel like a straight typical that's an absolute giant like that, an absolute freak. Yeah. I don't want to say it on this podcast. But a freak. Foul. But just a, one of those just disgusting pigs. I'm telling you. The typical. I guess I'd probably do typical. And I never would have thought I would say that. This is a guy, though, that's got a few non-typicals that have scratched some big itches. But if you put a typical with big old fat bloody eye guards. You know what I mean?

And maybe some not quite scorable burrow basal point. Like three, seven, eight, a bunch of seven, eight inch basal points. Yeah, that it's hard to hold on to the rack. I mean, dude. Dude. Jeez. All of his extras are seven, eight inches. Yeah. I would die for that. Right, Wyatt? Right. Seven, eights. But you know it'll be that big. He's going to have big eye guards. Yeah. Four and a half inches that are two inches wide. It's not going to be a slick shape. If you kill the slick shape. And they don't come to a point. They come to their freaking bird off at the top. Got a great big old, I'm just saying, rounded off top. Huh? Sounds like a dream buck. It is. I just, I still, I'm going to say three hundred inches. You're doing non-typical. I'm going to choose that. And you should, dude. I probably would too. You look at them. But then again, we've all seen what we're talking about.

There's a few. What? I've never seen a 300-incher. No. I'm talking oldie pitchers. Like, it still kind of depends what it looks like. And I don't, I know that sounds stupid. To me, it'd have to have, like Wyatt said, 200-inch frame. A big frame and trash. Because if you get one that's a rubbed. Yeah. That big foot book both ways type buck that, you know, Dennis Winch killed. But I don't, but I don't, but I don't, 40-inch. You're like. 40-inch. Yeah. Or, it doesn't need to be 40, but just something that is built well and 50, 75 inches of trash to go with it. It's got to be that, something like that. But it feels like, does it even, let's take it. Well, Josh, jump in. Before we jump to the next little subset. You three need to give your answer. What's your answer? I'm taking the 300-incher. No question. Wyatt? Yeah. I'm going non-typical as well. Devin?

You're talking to a guy who laid down and dialed a turret on a buck with a drop time that was like 17 inches wide.

You're doing non-typical. I'm killing non-typical, yeah. And I'm telling you, that'd be a really tough call. Is this typical super heavy, like disgusting pipe mask? I feel like if you saw a bolt at the same time and you had to make a quick decision, you'd kill the trash. You would. The trash. Probably, but I'll bet that four point, though, would look like nothing you've ever seen. Oh, yeah. That's your thing. When you think about that much bone and just four points. Oh, that's a lot. So, let's take it just a little further. You know, it felt like in the early 90s, mid-90s, 80s, whatever, this was possible. Like, when you went out, even general over-the-counter Utah when we had those rut hunts with the muzzle, you felt like, I may kill something like this. I may kill something like this. I don't know. It does not even feel possible, does it? See or even see something like that?

Bucks like this are named when they're 250. They're named when they're 220 as a non-typical. Well, and then also where we live, southern Utah, northern Arizona, western Nevada, the droughts had such a grip. Man, it's been a rough two, three years. It just, we haven't seen, we haven't seen a book, we haven't seen 190 net four points in any regularity anywhere, let alone what we're talking about or any, many book non-typicals. So, which is 230 nets. Oh, I don't know. You have good antler growth years. There's several of these net 190s that we didn't even hunt in Nevada. Yeah. On a good growth year. Really good growth year. And before it felt like all the fawns died. It feels like the populations have plummeted. Yeah. You know, whether they have or haven't, I don't know for a fact. But it just feels like predator, they're just more vulnerable to predation and they're

just not living these, you know. And then a lot better hunters hunting them too. Yeah. A lot more in our arsenal. It would take a buck to make a big jump that nobody knew, like there's going to be a giant on this unit. It would have to be just out of nowhere kind of deer, I think. Yeah. Like the Colorado buck. Yeah. Six, eight years. If we kill one like this, I want to have a costume party. Like flannel. I want to put the gun in the rack. I want to sit on its back. Right. You know what you got to do then? In the bottom of your hunting pack from now until. Put flannel. I've already been thinking about it. Have a flannel shirt. I'm thinking just for the moment. I'm going to stick a couple mustard packets in there just in case. Yeah. Wrap them up. And then I want to take it and put it in the back of my 72 show. A trucker hat. Foam trucker hat that you wore in the 70s. Yeah. The foam.

With the rope. Foam. I still wear one of those. Yeah. I'm telling you. I miss that. Like I miss that whole feeling. It feels that feeling. Hunting has changed so much that that feeling is gone. Like that feeling is gone. A minute ago I brought up a lot better hunters nowadays. I mean there was great hunters back then. But I mean we have a lot better tools. Gear. Guns. Optics. Than what any of those guys ever had. And they felt like the resource was never going to be gone. And so they shot them. Like they didn't hold out. Like if those hunters back then, they were great hunters. But if they knew what they were looking at. They knew the score system. And knew that it was going to go away at some point. What would they have gripped on to? What would they have killed? You know. They would have held out. Know what they're holding out for. You know. It just feels like. Anyway. So much pressure.

So much emphasis. Put on. And we've done it to ourselves. We're doing it right here. Right? We're pushing out podcasts. Yeah. Talking about how to hunt. How to be more effective. Yeah. Anyway. Great question. Can we move on? Yeah. We're going to smash and grab both of them. Hope we don't get caught.

Hope it's Nevada. Pray for forgiveness. We want them all. Say a little prayer and move on. Be a better guy. From then on.

I don't know that's the answer. Maybe. Maybe. Everybody. Jason's joking. Just so. I am joking. I would never do that. Hopefully it's Nevada and you had a landowner tag and a draw tag in the same year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's legit. Yeah. Okay. Narrator. Speaking of how good of hunters we are these days. Next question comes from Andy Kelso. This is pros and cons. And of the different ballistic calculating range finders. Non-binocular versions.

Josh. You've done some range finding. Let's talk about what? Sig 8K. Yeah. The Sig 8K. The BR-4. The BR-4. Maybe. Those are probably the two. The Leica 2800. The Leica 3500. Go ahead. Jump into it. I don't know. A lot of them have a lot of the same functions. A lot of it basically boils down to you. Once you're building your rifle profile in it, you push a button and you dial. That's how they all essentially function. They all, obviously at that point, they come with different lasers and technologies. Some of them have different, like say that Revik has a 10 power magnification on it. That's one big thing. I wish, I've used Sig since they came out, the 2400, and now got an 8. And I wish they had a 10 power. It's the only thing I can say about that that I wish it didn't have. And I had one instance on a coos deer, grayed out coos deer. Of course, they're always grayed out.

Not a summer coos deer. In December at, you know, 600, 700 yards that had a hard time even seeing the deer. Yeah. And I know they have the platform I can put it on and mount it on my tripod. But when you're by yourself and you're hunting and trying to get range and shooting, I'm not thinking of getting that out of my pack and doing that. I'm just not. And so that is one thing. 10 extra power. And I know we're not talking about binos. But anybody that's considering the binos versus those, that's one benefit to binos is you have two hands. You're locked on. Better feel the view. Looking through both barrels. Both barrels. And it's not a monocular. And it's easier to hit your target and to make sure you're hitting that target or very close to it. It's a fact. There is a difference. That's, I think, why I've gravitated to the binoculars, just because of that.

But, yeah, seeing that Revit with the 10 power, that was a good bonus there. You know, everything from the Leicas to upwards to there, there's different price ranges, you know, starting in the 700 range with, like, that 2800.com and going upwards to the 13-plus range. One thing I didn't like about the BR-4 was just that it was a little bit bigger. And a little bigger doesn't seem like a big deal until you hold it and you're dealing with it. Yeah. I'm used to the old Leicas. We started off with, what, the 1200 or even less. I don't know. Yeah. And they're basically the 8K is the same size as that. Yeah. I'm just used to it. And say, like, that Revit, there's, like I said, little design functions. You know, it's got that nice fancy cover that covers up the lenses and everything. Well, that nice fancy cover is kind of hard to flip down when you have your bow in your other hand.

And, you know, when you put it in the case, it goes on and it sticks on and you don't pull it out. But remember when you first used it, you used it first out of all of us and you were like, this is next level. This is unbelievable. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the thing. The functionality of it is great. There are a few little things if you're the bow hunting thing like that. You don't want to cut it off, but you might. That's what I mean. Like, there's all these little things if you're looking into getting one, think about those types of things as well. A lot of them do essentially the same and function the same. The algorithm and the mathematics and the environmental data that they're capturing now, they're all grabbing most of the same thing. You're going to be plus or minus a very small. Kind of like trucks. There's no difference between all of them.

Well, there's a question about that coming up, and I have a feeling you're going to have a different opinion. I know. I know. That's why I said it in jest. I get it, but it does feel like technology is so aggressive that there's good in all of them. Oh, yeah. There is. That's why I bring up the size. It's the only thing negative I can think of. I mean, they're super smart, you know. Incredible. The 8K is incredible. I can't believe the speed. I cannot believe the speed. What's your guys' opinion on the apps, the usability of the apps comparatively? I haven't used the Rebic one. I've only used the SIG one, and I've had no arguments. Yeah. I have no. They're all pretty easy and used. I mean, yeah. Well, and anymore, you know how, I mean, I know Wyatt, you know, struggling with his iPhone.

But generally speaking, generally speaking, it's a plug and play, and nobody even reads the instructions anymore. No, you don't. They all basically know how to use a computer, and they're just a computer. Yeah. That's all it is. You open up the app, there's a bunch of drop-downs you just add in your style, and you literally set it up. Yeah, you almost don't have to do that. Well, you connect to the Bluetooth, you know. Yeah. You upload the profiles, you choose the profile, you shoot it, you dial it and shoot it, right? What do you think, Devin? I think if you're a long-range shooter, there's some accessories and certain things that in a hunting situation you don't really need. Right. That could cause you lost time or whatever. Sandbags. Yeah, well, I mean, if you're packing sandbags, flannel and mustard packets, and your kestrels, and, you know. Flannel and mustard.

I'm just saying, like, at some point, simpler can be better in those situations. I agree. So give us a, for example, that you're thinking about. Well, I mean, even thinking about wind sometimes. Like, I've thought about wind and overthought it. So attaching the wind meter to. Well, yeah, even, and that, going that far, and you hold it up, and it's a four-mile-an-hour wind, like. What's it doing in between? Yeah, things like that. What's it doing at the animal? Yeah. You don't always know. Visualize those things, sea bushes, all that stuff, instead of worry about messing with your equipment, because you're just losing time. I like Kentucky windage. Kentucky. I love Kentucky. I like roughly, you know, hold on its brisket, hold on its butt, hold somewhere on the animal. Most of the times I ever held for wind, I overcompensated. Yeah. Overthought it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if it's blown too much?

But my point with this is if you're moving directions and all that, it's just, you can overthink things instead of just lay down and gather yourself and make it happen. Even the Vortex rangefinders are really awesome. I mean, they're affordable. A smart rangefinder is affordable anymore. Some of them. I'm not going to lie, the 8K is fairly expensive. Yeah. You know. But I bought it. Got a lot of bells and whistles. I'm buying it. They've added to it from the 2400. Yeah. The display stuff, so you know it displays your profile on the screen, so you remember. Whatever you type in the app. Oh, crap, I'm not in my 7 mag right now. I'm about to shoot my 7 mag. My Red Rock 30 Nozzler dot dot dot dot. I can type all that in and then I Bluetooth it and it shows up in the screen. You know. So you know you're not in a 6.5 or a 2250 mode. Right. Right. Or my Muzzler. How about that? 300 grainer.

You know. Yeah. Whatever. Going 2600. Sure. So, all right. Sounds good. On to the next one. Good question. We appreciate it. Question reader guy. Here we go. Garrison Kinzel. He asked, when it comes to late season mule deer, how often would you guys say you're hunting remote deer away from people versus killing bucks out from under people by using different slash creative tactics? I wish John was here for this killing bucks out from under people because he loves the pumpkin patch out here. He has very. Well, and even Colorado last year. Remember? Oh, I know. He watched the guy cut the fence. Not you. Not. Yeah. Trespass. Right? In Colorado. Cut the fence. Drug a deer through it or whatever and didn't even redo the fence. I don't know. What did he do? So. John's stories are just. Most of the time when we're, when I'm hunting late season mule deer, I've done it.

I guess I've done it in Wyoming. I've done it in Idaho. But most of the time I'm in Colorado. You're not right from under people, but you're in and amongst people. So I would say for sure, that's how I'm hunting. And whether I'm trying to be smarter or am smarter or more creative, I guess, is totally debatable. But that's the reality of most of the time. I'm not, I'm not normally hiking into some remote canyon somewhere and I'm the only guy there. I'm just not on units that. But I think you would be if you were, if you had local knowledge, like say Nevada, I was thinking about Nevada, you know, like say the 240s, there's five units, 241, two, three, four, and five. And if you list out all the places you want to hit, right, the last five days of the season when they start to rut or start thinking about it. In fact, it used to go to November 5th. There are some remote places I checked.

Like there was, and I smashed a buck on video for Ridge Reaper in one of those places. But I'm not going there to get away from people. I'm going there to check for bucks. Well, and it's also, I think that's a unit you're into. If you're in a unit with 600 third season tags versus five or 10 hunters, doesn't matter if you go, you don't need to try to get away from people on a 10, when a 10 tag unit on a four season, there's nobody there. Right. Just don't overthink that. Just hunt the numbers, cover the does. Yeah, that's right. And generally speaking, that works. And we're hunting wherever we feel like the big deer are. It doesn't really matter if it's a bunch of people. I don't really like that, but we're going to go there. But one other thing that came to mind was the unit I hunted last year. And your brother was in the neighboring unit.

And he hunted some less popular, a little more, took a little more effort. Not a ton. It wasn't backpacking, but it took a day hiking. Yeah. Didn't see people. And he got away from people. It's awesome. Nice buck. But with that, he also found nice sheds, nice bucks. And I feel like sometimes when you get away from people, you're hunting deer maybe a little bit older. They're escaping the crowds. It's, they're living an extra year or two until people like Aaron or yourself or myself or whatever go find them. Yeah, it's more thicker, canyony country and thicker. The deer were there, harder to find and see, but you could glass into thick trees and make a 400 to 600 yard shot if you had to. That's the type of country it was versus burns. And truck, truck, truck, truck people burn. Glass them. Driving the perimeter of a burn every day. Right.

And the hunt's over 15 minutes after daylight because all the bucks are either shot at or they're back in the trees. And then sometimes I remember we were hunting over by, you know, eagle, like say a 35, 36, and there's some places you could cross the river, right? And a little more extra effort and you're hunting away from people, maybe a little older age class buck. But I don't know that we're trying to, I did that in 44 too. That's not a deliberate target every time. It's just sometimes you, things come to you during a hunt, like I don't know, I got to do something a little bit different because where I'm at with everybody, this is just same old merry-go-round, so to speak. Right. And you got to think outside a little bit. And the poncegon is similar to that. Like you, some of the best bucks are killed where everybody hunts all the time. Yeah.

And then there's a couple places, Wyatt, you would go check where there's some migration or rutting. Kill a great buck out. Maybe not everybody goes and checks. Yeah. Well, a few off the wall places. I think, you know, for the most part on those late season deer are kind of looking for more of an easier place to winter most of the time. A lot of times they'll end up on the valley floor where elk are going to find a hidey hole. They're going to tuck away on a steep mahogany ridge or steep south acer, depending on the weather, and kind of bury themselves. Elk is totally different than deer a lot of times because late season deer, you got the rut factor. Late season elk, they're going the opposite direction. They want to go be alone. Yeah. Their eyes are glazed over. They're going to winter age. They're going to the does.

So I feel like, you know, deep back country, you're a lot more aggressive on the elk most of the time finding a late season bull than you would be a late season mule deer. Late season mule deer is coming in a lot of area. A lot of country. But you guys have killed great bucks in some areas that are overlooked. Most definitely. Most definitely. Always going to find kind of an overlooked area where lower deer densities typically lead to lower people numbers too. I love low density. A low density, usually game and fish doesn't really know what's there. It's harder to survey. You got, you know, less people. But with that are less, you know, deer densities. And so, you know, you would think the ratio would still work itself out and roughly have the same age class. But it just doesn't feel like it works out like that. It feels like low densities equal old deer.

These low densities out in these desert areas, you got freaking dinosaurs. You know what I mean? People kind of get bored with it too, I think. You know, they can stand up for a day or two. Not nine days. Staring through optics and not seeing anything for the chance they might see one deer. Or they could drive down the road 10 miles and see 200 deer that night. So on elk, what are you guys doing? Like, let's talk about that a little bit. We've all hunted late season elk. You guys especially have, Bronson spent some time, you know, Dutton, you know. Josh, you've spent time paying which and Wyatt, you've guided a lot. Devin, a lot of late season elk in Nevada and stuff. Let's talk about that just a little bit more. Wyatt, you brought it up, but maybe just a little bit more. So elk, they seem to know, of course, they're done with the rut. They're looking to be lazy and kind of lay up.

And they're going to pull somewhere where there's good feed and good cover as well. They're going to kind of tuck away with their bachelor herd of bulls. Usually they're in a group of bulls, I've noticed, that time of year. And it's usually deep country most of the time. It's not as easy to access as a lot of your deer country that time of year where your deer are going to spend the winters. But I think at times people are hunting where they're finding sheds too. So, like, the sheds have killed a lot of bulls late season. You don't know where this thing ruts. Maybe you know where he summers, but he comes from two or three units away every year to a certain area, and then you guys are smashing them. Yeah, they seem to be pretty habitual in their winter patterns as far as coming back. And shed hunters have killed a lot of big bulls. Yeah, I would agree. Elk's completely different.

You're probably going to have to. And by nature, they avoid people a little bit more. Even in the rut, they're not as dumb as deer. You know, deer stand out right there in front of the truck. Elk in the rut, they'll bugle, the cows will take off, and they're off to the timber. You know, they're just, by nature, elk are more reclusive from people. So, when a bull forgets about cows and he's by himself or with one or two or a handful of bulls, they're usually dug in in a place of least resistance, not being bothered with good feed, like what I said. And so, yeah, that's a totally different thing. You're going to have to lace it up usually or be real creative and hike into vantage points that you think you can just glass something that everybody's driving by. You know, may not be always distance away from roads, but just proximity and weird glassing vantage points.

The highway right here in Nevada, right here, I mean, Highway 93. They're late season. Sometimes there's some weird stuff on them. You know what I mean? And some really easy places to go. Yeah. One of my favorite places was a road that it would snow, and it was a north facer, and you couldn't drive it. So, I'd walk it every single time, little holes here and there. It's a little something. So, that's a remote place. But then other places, I knew bulls were there, but it's just so thick, and they move like 20 steps a day. And there'd be truck after truck after truck. And they give it 10 minutes, leave. And then half hour later, bull comes out. We smash it. Steps out. So, you just, it takes patience. Sit down. On those late seasons, yeah, it's just. A lot of glassing. Yep. Sometimes a patient. In the more popular places, they're there.

So, our own Jeff John has like a late season elk tag, right? Doesn't. Yeah. Come to find out. That's right. Yeah. In Nevada. What advice, Devin, would you give them? There's a lot of people with late elk tags in Nevada. What advice would you give them? That, well, that specific unit's pretty open. And it's kind of a weird elk unit where they could be high. We kill bulls high. Clear down low in the sage. And I just told them, like, don't check one spot and just ride it off. You have to keep checking. Like, if you know, if your radar, if your alarm's going off, this is a bull hole, then it probably is. I've hunted late season over at Ely a bit. And the guys, the reason I had a guy that's very capable of doing it on his own, wonder if he should hire somebody. I'm like, you should absolutely hire somebody. Like, it's very thick, and they're long-distance glassing.

And those guys can sit there day after day after day, and they have the conviction to sit there because there's new bulls each day they're seeing or finding or happen. And sometimes they're just over the ridge, and you can't see them, and they're out of sight. But whereas a guy that was self-guided might go there, glass, nothing here, move on, and not put the time in. These guys know. The repeated knowledge of the service bull. One of my favorite things to do is if, in Nevada especially, there's so many roads. I mean, they make roads everywhere. There's mining roads. There's ridge roads. Hunters have made. You go there, and you say, okay, that's the section I can't see from anywhere. Figure out a way to see it because there's probably going to be bulls in there almost every time. They just don't get bothered, so that's where they stay. Yep. Yep.

And it doesn't have to be a big wilderness, you know, non-roaded area. Just a pocket people can't see. Awesome. I like it. Josh, you got anything? You've done a fair bit of this. Like with Devin, it's, I don't know how many times you'd sit and glass this spot. Okay, there's nothing there or whatever. And then you're glassing over here, looking around, doing something, and you just, as you're putting your spotting scope, well, you glance back up, and all of a sudden, here's a big. Where did this school bus come from? Right, yellow school bus. Or four of them. Yeah. And you're like, I seriously looked at that for 20 minutes, but it's crazy. Something that big can just stay on the right, behind the right tree or whatever. They don't move a lot. They take one step every five minutes, just conserving energy. And half the time, you're looking in mahogany and thick stuff.

You know, that's what they like. So, yeah, you just got to spend the time and go to those areas that they go to. They'll be there. They do, regardless. So, Bronson, I was asked a question to bring up for you. What do you mean? I don't sit on the list. Well, there is one. I didn't put it to the list because I didn't. Okay. I was the editor. A bonus item. This is kind of like court. I want to know who asked this question. Who asked it? You don't have a right to know the accuser. I think I do. I think I do. So, last time I went, I wanted to know the guy that wanted me to punch me in the face. When you were whale watching and dolphin watching. No dolphins in Alaska. What do you figure is the optimal power of binocular to use? And does quality make a difference?

Yeah. But I had 12s. I took my 12s and I glass mountain goats from the top deck. I did. Did you have a tripod? No. I thought that would be a little weird to be tripoded up. I think I could see your flip flops and the ocean and the mountain goat country in the same view. I took my shoes off. I sent some of y'all a picture. Yeah. And it was, hey. Hey, were you happy with the NL 12s? I took my NL 12s. Do you feel like you could have seen the goats from 14 miles away if you didn't have the NL 12s? No, I don't. But the whales, I think I had. Could you tell if they were nannies or billies? I wish I had 10s probably for whales. 8s probably would have been okay too. A lot of those were closer, you know, 1 to 400 yards from the boat. But still. But the 12s are a little jittery in your hands. But, hey, I could have sold whatever I had that day if I had them in my hands.

Just looking right at the blowhole. I should have filled up a suitcase. I should have taken a suitcase of optics. You should have. Yeah. Because, you know, you're there with people from all nationalities. And when blowholes are going off and people are there, I almost didn't want my binals there. Because I thought I knew somebody was going to drop them off the edge. Because what do you have to do? Take them off your binohars. Now you're handing them out. Okay. What are they doing? They're leaning over the edge. And I'm seeing a $3,000 pair of things just. You need a heavy deposit. I need a chain. One of those key chains that's a leash that goes out like 50. It's a retractable. Yes. You know. An auto retract. It was pretty fun. Pretty neat. All right. You know, my wife and dad. So, anyway, talk about that a little bit. You were out on vacation. Did the crew, the Alaskan crews?

Yeah, did the Alaskan crews. Haven't been on that. I never have either. Yeah. My wife and her sister and husband had a great trip up there. Did all the southeast Alaska. Did you put that on the calendar? That means you've got about 14 more sheep hunts coming up that you're able to do. Unfortunately, this was her birthday present. So, I don't know if I can count. Hey, I celebrated your birthday. You could try. Put that on the calendar. You could try. It never hurts to try. But we had a great trip. That's what we can get away with. But I do think I'm in the positive side right now. Yes, I have. Well, the bird watchers, I would have figured eights. And I thought with blowholes, it might be eights. It might be okay. Well, I'm sure if I needed to look for a certain appendage on a well to determine what species it was, I might need. But I'm not that level.

I've been on a mountain goat hunt when my dad was like, hey, you know, you're trying to kill a big one. And we couldn't even tell the sex. Okay. I know. And he's like, does it cut? Yeah, it does. Kapow. And he killed the biggest one in the unit that year. So, you know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I need the NLs for that. I think eights or tens are fine if you're going to look at wells. Eights are probably plenty. But anyway. I like it. I like eights, by the way. I am a fan. Eights and twelves, I'm a fan. And tens, I'm a fan too. They're kind of caught in the middle. They're good. They're awesome. They're probably more of an all-arounder. I love eights. And the more people, there's a lot of people out there that are starting to admit it. Even though you guys beat us up a little bit. No. I don't. You'll like them.

One of these days you're going to convert and you're going to be like, where have these been all my life? Back in the storage room. I wouldn't mind them. All right. Okay. Well, I appreciate that. Thanks. That's a good, that was a good question. You know who you are. Who? Who asked that? Jason. Thanks, Jason. Was Jason in for the drawing for the free vinyl? No. Can't win your own stuff. I did not see that name on there. Hey. All right. Question reader guy. Here we go. I know. We are blowing through these like crazy. What time? I mean, good grief. We got to keep going because we got to at least do two pages of these. Two? We've not even done one. No, I know. But the next one only has two dudes and we have lots of questions. Okay. That's a goal. Okay. Here we go. Kay Jones asks, when scouting a new area, what are something you are looking for, mule there specifically?

I think a lot of it depends on the season that you're scouting for. Yeah. If you're archery tag versus a later season rifle hunt, it's completely different. But most of the time when I'm scouting and I'm really putting time into it, I have an earlier season tag personally in archery or muzzleloader. So, I mean, yeah, I usually gravitate. In our neck of the woods, water sources, if you can run cameras in that state or place, that will at least give you maybe an inventory of what's around. You know, I mean, obviously. Obviously, look for Wyatt's truck. Yeah. I don't know about that. But vegetation treatments or burns or things like that where usually they're, you know, if they're of the right age, they're probably going to have. Three to five years old. They're going to have deer using them. Deer, you know, you can glass up and things like that. But not also, not always.

I mean, I've been in plenty of places with the burns and all that. You can't find a deer in them sometimes. So, it's not universal. But, man, that's a tough question to nail down perfectly. But I guess I spend a lot of time glassing and I run some cameras as a supplemental way. But I guess if you're in high country and things like that where water's everywhere, cameras are, you know, not as useful. It's going to be time on the ground. I don't know. And we have some guys with some of these late season tags that are, you know, making trips to Colorado. So, and I'm like, hey, just don't be disappointed when you don't see much. Just learn the low country roads. Learn the roads. Where you're going to camp or stay or glassing vented points. I identify a lot of those. Places where you know, hey, that's where the sun's coming up. That's where it's going down.

That's where I'd want to be here or when I want to be here. Things like that. That's right. I don't know. It's a lot more crucial to probably spend your time two, three days before the hunt than it is in the summertime on a lot of those Colorado hunts. And what am I looking for? Late season, I'm looking for does. Yeah, exactly. Bucks like does. Early I'm not. I'm looking for, you know, places where bucks are going to be summer. That's right. Yep, I agree. And then feed. And a lot of this is not something I can't write down on paper. I'll rip through a unit and there's just some places I gravitate to and I don't know why necessarily. I can't really identify it on paper in an outline format of why I like this place. You know, there's just some places that are bucky. Yeah.

And it reminds you of other places you've seen in other places usually, whether it be the bitter brush or sometimes oak brush component. I've had good experiences in. Yeah. Lots of kill scenes in brush like this. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Some places are just bucky. And there were some that you have to learn. So like, for example, Nevada, early season, Bronson, some of these lower desert units. I mean, you think, well, let's kind of go to the higher stuff. The higher stuff's the nursery. Generally, the does, fawns, small bucks. Yeah. And then once in a while, there's a big buck. Down low is where all the big bucks and bachelor bucks are. And then there's a couple of bat-a does that I just love. Yeah. They'll have twins down there in the desert. And I'm like, you are an awesome broad. And I love that. Split ear. Just gnarly old broads, you know. She's the one on her trail.

That's right. And I'm on her hind feet kicking off the bucks. Oh, I love it. She's even kicking off the bucks. I love it. Scattered up. She's just bat-a. But then there's, and then the bucks down there, generally you have bucks, the older bucks, mature bucks, whatever. The low country and all of these units right here in Nevada, especially Utah. Down there, there's summering bucks down in the, in what you would call winter range. And I love that stuff. And I've learned, you know, if there's Joshua trees, don't overlook it. But that took me, that wasn't intuitive. That's something came from experience. Yeah. It wasn't like I drove through there and go, wow, I love this 110 degree heat. And these, these cactuses really do it for me. Yeah. They throw a little shade. Nice cover. Yeah. No, you don't think that. No, you, once in a while you go, where did that deer come from?

Why is that deer here? This is the ugliest crap I've ever seen in my life. And then four years later, you're going, if I'd have known this five, six years ago, I'd have killed something. You know what I mean? And so how many, how many times would you guys, do you guys think of Devin, Wyatt, Adam, Josh? Like if I would have known then what I know now, I mean, they were hunting some of these units, you know, during freaking Thanksgiving with rifles or whatever. If I would, Bronson, there was a 241 tag, remember back in the day for like 3250. Yeah. And we were like, we don't, nobody would hunt that. You hunt 242. Then all of a sudden you find out, actually, it might even be better. And you're just like, why did I, if I'd have known then what I know now, you know what I mean? I think it's about an everyday occurrence for sure. Well, we talk about it all the time.

You learn something new and you're like, oh, if I would have known that even a year ago, 10 years ago. You find a water. Game changer. You find a water, you're like, how many freaking 300 inch and 226 typicals of watered there, you know, over the years. Josh, you found a new wallow, what, two days ago? Yeah. How many big bulls have wallowed there that you, and if you'd have known that back, you know, whatever. Right. I mean, just, I don't know. I think about it all the time, but, but so some of it is just a matter of spending time. And some of it's just a look and feel. I think Colorado, we've all spent so much time in Colorado. It's a look and feel. And not to say that that's only where the big bucks are. There's going to be a big buck killed in the thickest. Bronson, you killed him. The thickest cedars or junipers. I don't know what technically they were.

But the thickest crap ever doesn't necessarily remind me of 61. Oh, yeah. I mean, doesn't necessarily just reek of giant buck. You know what I mean? But it was a gift. Kind of a gift. You kill them like that sometimes. You find them and the hunters, the hundred yards below them and look in the other direction. Yeah. That was that story. Yeah. It was. I had to let him get out of the way. And he walked right to me. Remember that? But why were you there? And when we're driving through, maybe you had heard of us. No. I saw six, seven does in the two-track driving up that road one day. And I'm like, there's some does here. I'm going to come back here in a few days. Okay. I went back there to find them. That's right. 207 inches. But it's not like the country said, this is bucking. If I wouldn't have seen those does, I might not have ever came back. Right.

So there's things like that that happen. There's. It was way out of the way from where I was really hunting. I just, oh, there's six or eight does here. No buck with them. Third season's coming up. I better come check them in a few days. A good friend of ours killed a 36-incher, basically typical, years ago, Wyatt, good friend of yours and all of ours, on the Arizona-Utah border early season. You know what I mean? A buck that summered down low. And you just think, well, that isn't normal. That wasn't a normal situation. And maybe not when you drive through there. This is bucky and this reeks of a giant. Some of those low country had more hay fields and stuff running around like that. Some years they get a bunch of hay down there in lower ponds. It's lower ponds or other places in other years. They don't have water to do it.

So year to year and state to state, that scouting and what you're looking for changes. It goes back to that local knowledge. Even though there's things we can put on paper that we like and how we'd go about it, there's something to be said for the local knowledge. Like if I'm going to Reno to hunt, I'm not going to be that effective. I feel like I could be pretty effective for a newbie. But those local guys, they know that stuff. They know where they would start right off the bat. Chris Lacey, I'm not going to compete with him. He knows what he's doing. You know what I mean? Just, all right. Wyatt, you got anything else to add? No, I think that covers that question. Devin, Josh, we good? Let's move on. What are we calling him, question reader guy? He's the question reader guy. Hit us next. We need to find out more synonyms for narrator just so we can find one. Let's skip this question.

What? No, this one. No, this is the best question. Come on. What do you mean? It's going to be easy. This should breeze right through it. You tell us and we move on. This was a valid question that was numbered and entered in the giveaway. I feel like it probably needs to answer. Got to give him his due. Pedro Sandoval says, how big of a buck will it take for Jason? This is for Jason only to pull the trigger this year. It's not just for me. I'm going to open it up to the board. My name is not on there. I can't. I don't see my name. It goes back to, so I killed, there's a buck that I killed. It was 209. He's not mounted right now. Why? Because he's pencils. He's pencils. Like he doesn't reek of, you know what I mean? And so my point is like it's easy to put a score. I'm not going to kill anything under 200. Describe the buck. 210. Just describe it. He needs to be freaking heavy. Heavy?

That buck I killed in Colorado, he's 206. He's in the front room. I like him. Yeah. His beans, what did we call that? Was it marbling or what did we call that? Purling. No, purling. I hate that name. I hate that word. What's it called? Purling is feminine. Sounds like an ice skating move or something. Sounds like something a clam would put out. Like it's, you know.

Just those little bumps that turn white when they rub stuff. And they said, you know, purling happens when what? When deer are healthy. Super great body condition. And maybe they're not going to put out another point, but they're maximizing the points they have. And it's oozing with nutrients, right? This deer did that. This deer did that. And he had super fat beans, just fat beans that you can't. Do you like dark antlers? Yeah, I like dark antlers. So could we call it he's looking for the black pearl? No, no, because I'm hunting in places that don't have them. The black pearl doesn't fit. But dark chocolate. There's nothing wrong with a spray on tan. Didn't it take a copious amount of time to decide to pull the trigger on that deer, though? Oh, hell yeah. I almost got called. It did. But I think part of that is it had a Colorado body. And have you ever judged anything at 80 yards?

I can judge them at 400. Way easier. At 80, you're thinking. At 80, I'm like, hey, I've done this before. That buck is no longer in my position. I made knife handles. Somebody made knife handles out of me. I've learned my lesson. And I'm just like, am I misjudging this buck? 80 yards with any kind of optic at all? Am I misjudging? And he's got a freaking, let's just call it a 300-pound body. A big body, yeah. A giant body. Colorado bucks are freaking hard to judge. I passed a typical in 44. I never should have passed. Well, he looked like a 24-inch four-point. Yeah, on a Colorado body. Net book typical. You know what I mean? Walks away out of your life. Never to come back. And so, I guess, I guess, I like freaking pipe mass. And we were talking about points around the bases and eye guards. And, Bronson, your Idaho buck came up. Okay?

You, I mean, you cut him off 10 inches up off the shank, off the head. You'd still shoot him. I'd still pound him. There's so many points. You can't hold on to him. I love that. So, you know, I'd like to put a number to it. But basically, it's just that kind of buck. Something that makes you breathless. You're just like, I want to kill something. You walk up and he just takes your breath away. And each time, lucky enough to have done it a couple of times, each time it happens, you're like, is this going to be my last one? And it does. It's getting tougher and tougher with this drought. So, I do feel like maybe, maybe we never get our breath taken away again. But we're going to die trying. You know what I mean? Does it feel like that to you guys? Yeah. Yeah. No. So, that's a very ambiguous answer to Pedro's question. But, yeah, I know what you mean. So, heavy. 210 pipe mass. Okay.

210-ish pipe mass. 210 is 200 if he's built well, of course. 226 typical. 227. There's a lot of deer out there that just are big, but they don't score big. They're just big. Yeah. If he has a weak crab claw fork, but he's 37 inches wide and mass, pipe mass and. Old. Age. I like age. I mean, I'm dumping him, you know. It's hard not to kill age. And, you know, if he's old, then you know that's what he is. What I'm looking at is what he is and is what he's going to be. And he's old and mature. I shot one like that in Colorado for a couple years ago. Yeah, you did. The wide one, slick shanker. I'm like, had a crab front. No eye guards. I'm like, he's 32 or 3 wide. I'm dumping him. And he's old, big white face, rutting. I'm like. Devin, you're Colorado Buck. Oh, yeah. Same thing. Same thing. Neither of them are 200 inches. What did he end up scoring? What was it, what? High 180s.

Yeah, high 180s. Just a hair under 190. The biggest 180s I think I've ever seen. Crabby fronts. But no eye guards. Giant backs and mass. Disgusting points. 28. Just over 28 wide. When you shot him, sent us pictures. I'm like. I'm not going to lie. We've told the story before. Very jealous. I was like, pull over right now. You told me that. You pull over. Pull over the highway. Right now. Yeah. He looked like a bug kid. And then you came back. And then we rushed it with the infamous dad's tape. Well, then it didn't shrivel too much. Who makes a tape that doesn't? No. Remember how they get frayed and he cut it off at one inch just so it would be a clean, fresh. I have no idea. So one person knew that. And you're like, dude, this thing's upper 90s. I'm like, I knew it. I knew it. But it makes 200. Yeah. It was 15 inches bigger than it should have been. Let's just say that. Almost.

But it was believable. I didn't care. It was believable. I didn't care. I didn't think. What is that deer going to score? That's the type of thing. Yeah. It's just the look. Some bucks just have a look. And that buck just had the look, man. I feel like score kind of underappreciates a lot of deer sometimes. I've got a pair of sheds that are 227 that are pencils. And they're nice. But they're giant. But they're just nice when you hold them. And then you've got a pair that are freaking monster mass. 190, 195, four point or something. Yeah. I mean, geez. I lay awake at night. I hold them daily. You know what I mean? I feel like we don't see as many deer with mass mass. Yeah. That's what. Comes with age. It comes with age. Yeah. It's harder to find a buck with age for that mass. So we need to only hunt areas that can do that. That's what you. I mean, that's. Strip.

I mean, Arizona strip is basically what we need. Strip. Some weird places. We need to go to. You need to go to weird places with old deer. Yeah. On good wet years. And then other than that, you have water ski. It's going to be interesting to see how that trail camera thing plays out down there in Arizona and what kind of deer that brings back. Tell me why. Everybody. Everybody says trail cameras don't shoot bucks. Okay. But every guy down there knows what's coming. Yep. In two to three years from now, it's going to be disgusting. Isn't it? Oh, I think it's going to be awesome. Crazy. It's true. All right. Okay. Well, let's move on. I mean, something gnarly. Who knows? Okay. Who knows? It might be 120 inch. I don't know. What? I don't know. A hundred and something. Two twenty seven. Typical. Okay. Here we go. Hey, you got it. If you fill tags, you don't have any option.

You don't have any chance of killing the new world record. Typical. That's true. So, just leave those tags unpunched. All right. Here we go. Austin Murdoch asks, what sets Epic Outdoors apart from other tag services out there? Also, what's Jason's favorite truck dump for hunting?

Wyatt, you have probably the most knowledge about other services. You came from another service. I did, yeah. So, as far as the tag service, I would say probably the biggest thing that sets us apart is our personalization. I mean, we have a really good team here, and we treat everybody as if we were applying ourselves. We go through and look at everybody's profile as we are applying them, select their units ourselves as if we were applying ourselves. I like it. I think that's right. Yeah. I think we take pride. Experience. And, yeah, take it. We take the criteria that the hunter's given us, as much as we can glean from them, and then filter that through to, is he guided, unguided? Can he go horseback? He doesn't want that. What weapon can he hunt with? You know, all those types of things, the trophy criteria.

And don't just slap everybody in for the same old, you know, easy units, you know, and hope for the best. I think we look at it through our perspective, too, as if it's our own tag. And we're not afraid to think outside the box. We grabbed a guy that would normally just hunt the Arizona Strip. We grabbed him another tag, and he smashed a 230s buck or 240s buck. That's true, yeah. Right? And so we're just, I think we're. We were confident enough with the unit from personal experience or enough knowing about it, had the outman, knowing he was going to go guide it. That's right. You know, and I know this is, when you say tag service, Austin, I'm assuming you're talking about license application service, but I guess maybe if you're talking about just a tag acquisition service in the magazine, I would still put our experience and our cruise experience up.

We have the most longevity when you add it up collectively in this realm of writing and researching about applying for tags in the West. And the experience. That's what I'm saying. And like Devin, you said it best the other day when you mentioned, look at the tags alone we're doing this year. Just look at them. It's not, we're not touting that we're just getting any old deer tag. A lot of people will say, I just want a deer tag. I'll get any tag I can get. I just want a deer tag. I'm like, that's not, we're so focused on what's new, what's exciting, what's making this unit come on strong. Why? Why? Why the phenomenon over here? Oh, look at these burns. Maybe we consider that. We need to keep track of this. We've moved around so much like in Colorado over almost 20 years now of hunting. I've been around and I'm, I'm back to units that I was, that I left alone for 10 years

because they were terrible. So that goes back to what you're saying. Being on top of trends right now and what's going to be coming in the near future, whether that be burns, whether that be tag cuts, whether that be season adjustments somehow, whether that be, you know, trail cam regulations, whatever. We're not afraid to eat tags. We're not afraid to try. Boots on the ground experience. You learn a lot. That's exactly what I was going to say out there. Boots on the ground hunting. We're not riding on just past injury information. Henry Mountains is the best in Utah. So apply every one of our guys for Henry's. 10 years ago, but not so much. We see it. We see it with our eyes. So that's what I think, Devin, your point. Did you have anything to add for that? It was just like, you were just like. I just think collectively the guys in this room right here, like how many tags we have

and then times that by the last couple of years and how many units and miles and time and days and months we put in out there. Yeah. And then when people call in, we have enough experience around whatever they're talking about to actually hear what they're telling us. You know what I mean? This is where I went. This is what I saw. Oh, really? And about elk or deer. Maybe they had a deer tag, but maybe we're learning something about elk. And we can actually listen to what they're saying. We have a lot of members that are pretty darn good hunters. Well, and formulate that into our response for what's best for them in their situation, whatever their question is. So take the knowledge that we've had and apply it to a guy real world when you call in as a member of Epic Outdoors, whether that be a magazine and consulting service or a licensed

application individual, to apply that knowledge and information that we've acquired and continue to and personalize it to that guy. It's just hard to wrap your head around that. It's easy to say the word experience, and the team has a depth of experience. And that's, if you had to simplify it, that's what it would come down to. But there's a whole different way of how to put that into personal strategy and approach and trying to draw the best tags or applying for the best tags at the end of her. Okay. Favorite truck? One that gets you home. I have so many favorites. I have so many favorites. I love a Power Wagon. I love a Power Wagon. Awesome. The ZR2, we're running heavy. Bronson and I are running heavy. We love them. Love that truck for hunting trucks. It's incredible. I had an old, the old style Tundra that, you know, Wyatt and Devin are running a bit of,

and then they're running new ones too. I love that. I love that one too. I've run those. One of my favorites for old time cheap trucks was the 2001 F-150 heavy half, that 7700. I mean, maybe the best old used truck I've ever had. Just, I mean, I had it in some crazy, crazy, hey, hey, wheels off the ground, frame twisting sucker. And then Wyatt proceeds to tell me he knows a lot of lion hunters that love that same basic model. Yeah. I've seen a lot of lion hunters running those old Fords. Gasser. They're hard on them. 5.4 trike. Shorter will be, you know, not extend cab and get around. Yeah. That's some craddy to see the trees. Actually, the extended cab, yeah, extended cab. Yeah. No, I'm saying the non. That's what you're talking about. No. Or did you have it? Extended cab, yeah. Oh, I thought you had the old. No. You're talking your green. Green was the extended cab. Yeah.

How about the T100? Did you sell that to Chris or something? Or did you ever have one? I had the, it was an old style Tundra, 2000 Tundra. He put 300 to something thousand miles on it. Yeah, I thought it was wore out at 150. Chris sold it and made money. Chris, Chris didn't have brakes as he rolled in to trade it in and slept in it overnight and then traded it in. Like, that was a truck he got good use out of. The one thing that bothers me about those, the Toyotas, and you guys are going to beat me up over it. I see them pretty regular along the side of the road with a front wheel caved in. Ball joints. And that's the only thing. That's the only thing about them. Other than, Bronson, we basically had to go see a chiropractor after we got done on some trail cam trips. You did. I didn't like that. You said it was rough.

Yeah, the rougher, I don't like, have you seen the shocks that come on a stacked Tacoma or a stock Tacoma? Looks like something you'd put on it. 2018. We bought them. Brand new ones. I've seen shocks that are bigger on some of these e-bikes. Okay. Well, this e-bike definitely got your attention. It was in the parking lot. So I'm just saying, they are not, you have to modify those a lot more. And I know you're saying, well, if you buy a ZR2, you're paying for that. Okay. Well, yeah. But it all comes from the factory and it's all worthy protected. ZR2 does have lockers all the way around. Lockers, front, rear. I mean, love it. And shocks. Smooth ride. And I'm running the Beasle ZR2. And even in the sand, I'm telling you, there is nothing like it. My kid took his 4Runner out there in the sand. Buried it. But, well, basically, he's like, I can't believe.

Now, looking back with your ZR2, he's like, I'm blown away. It is very. But now, hey, I'm going to be. You're going to see me in a great big old 3500 diesel. I don't know. Well, not in the sand. No. Trust me. No. Otherwise, you're going to have a sand anchor and a lot of rope. I've tried to stay away from the diesels because you can't really hunt in them in mud and sand and stuff like that. But, hey, I'm going to end up falling in that trap. We end up having a hammer truck and a bigger one to get you to camp and stuff. Oh. All your stuff. We're going to have to insert a story. Does anybody have a kill story? Be thinking of a kill story because you can only do so many questions before we need a kill story. Okay. Well, and I. Bronson, it's about your turn, by the way. What? You've got some kill stories you haven't talked about. Well, I don't know what one.

But do we want to try to tackle these next two? Yes. There's two more that have. Question reader guy. We're going to have to try to go through quick. I don't want to go on for 14 hours. This one will. This next question might be 14 hours. These next two are a little bit long. But I think if we get through them, we've at least made a big dent. We're going to have another podcast or two. Two or three. At least out of this. So, anyway. But let's try to get through these next two today before we go have some Mexican food. Yeah. Okay. Here we go. This comes from Dan Ryan. He says, With more serious slash educated hunters in the field. Better gear. Making hunters more proficient. Large scale outfitters. And social media highlight reels. Raising the expectations. As many. It's hard not to refute that more large bucks, bulls, and sheep get targeted and killed every year. Compared to 25 years ago.

This in turn means potentially less older age class. Genetically superior animals on the landscape. If you had a magic wand, what would you take away to better hunting quality of animals? Large scale guides. Long range rifles. Social media. Trail cameras. Apps like Onyx. I know it's a loaded question either way. But love to hear the perspective since I love hunting. And don't exactly like the way it's becoming in some areas. I always pride myself on being adaptable. But some days I miss what hunting was. Thanks. Keep it up. That was my point about the 72 Shev and flannel. Yeah. You know, when you. A wood stock and a fixed four scope, you mean? Yeah. It's a straight eight Simmons. 30-30. Leather action. Fixed four loop. Oh, that's what I started off hunting last night. Geez. You know? Who does not. Just tell me this. You listeners out there. Who does not miss those days?

Pretty simple days. Didn't even have holdovers taped to your stock. There was. I remember the holdover. My first buck. Okay. So here. There's your hunting story. I guess. I don't know. Here it comes. My first buck. It was back up Floyd Canyon and some of that. It was basically over the counter back then. It was over the counter back then. And in this particular part of it bordered the limited entry. And I remember it was my mom's. 7-M-O-8? No. No. No. They didn't make it then. A 308. Okay. Yeah. And it had a Magna port. What do they call a Magna port? It was slits cut in the barrel. It's a cheap. Basically a cheap. Break. Break. And it was cut down for her size. I was borrowing it right. I'm a kid. I'm whatever. 14 or something. Yeah. Whatever. And I still have pictures back. We took a three-wheeler up there to carry our tents or whatever.

And this thing was, I don't know, it felt like it was 24 inches long from end to end. Okay. And it was me and my dad. And we laid out our bullets on the rock. And we went to town working on it. You glassed the buck up? Oh, yeah. We glassed the buck up with I don't know what. Yeah. I don't know. It could be just two tubes with no lenses. Yeah. I don't know.

And we walked bullets into this buck. And I hit it first. How long do you think? And last. And so my dad says. How far do you think it was? I guess it's yours. I trudge over there and I had to finish it off. And I think realistically it was probably 350 yards. It fell like 14 miles. Who has a rangefinder? Oh, yeah. There was no rangefinder. And so anyway. That was the first buck. My first buck ever. Yeah, that was a four point. And then I swore I would never kill anything less than a four point. And I think I've talked about that in probably podcast number 202 or something. But anyway, basically that's happened. And I don't think I'll even miss basically. Tagged anything less than a four point. You know what I'd love to see? We've seen a couple of these. You and I saw some. Field time bonus? No. Well. Oh. Some three points. That are legit.

I think you saw one or two last year, aren't you, Paul? A three by four two years ago. You still lay awake at night thinking about. Big old. Like you're talking the bases. His eye guards went way forward. Okay. I want to describe it. Heavy dark. You see what a three point with eye guards this big. Oh. He forts in the back and big bladed beams. Dive down. Is he going down? What about that shed? That three point shed I have. Yes. That you were. Yeah. I would love to see the three point that gets Carter to break his own oath. Net book typical. Is that three point shed with net book typical? Yes. It's giant. Well, that would. But I mean. Would it take that? I mean, it's seriously 180, 185 pipe mass three point with five inch eye guards. No. Come on. Come on. You're nuts. You're walking up to it and you're going. He's turned to get a four point out of that with the eye guards. Hit call.

I said, well, yeah, it's scorable. It's four. That means it has to be a two point. Speaking about genetic deficiencies. Josh. What? He's the biggest guy here. Misty Fjord.

I'm like thinking Josh is the biggest, burliest guy here. You're talking about genetic deficiencies. He's a genetic wonder. That's for sure. Well. A lot of wondrous things. Well. We do have a. I don't know. We do have a Misty Fjord story. You said you were going to talk about shanks. I could. Okay. End of end of podcast. Maybe. We can do that. Pray about it. I'm okay. I don't want to. I don't want to make you go places you don't want to go. I have no shame. Well, I'm not going to talk about everything.

No. There's just some times in your life. You're ready to dump something. There's certain promises you make to yourself even. You know. And then there's a lot of certain things that you say. Okay. If that deer does A, then I do B. And there's kind of a checklist. Pretty soon you walked yourself into big plumes of air coming out of the side of him. Yeah. That's true. And that can happen quicker when you're, I don't know, in the deserts of Nevada by yourself. 10 days into it. Yeah. And you've got another hunt. Yeah. And then you have, you're like, tomorrow I should be in another state that's 14 hours from here. And I, I'm kind of past this one now. I'm looking forward to that one. Pandemic's on. But I really liked how this deer started out. From the first 10 inches of shank, pretty legit. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And he was like a big old deer. Old. Like, I mean, awesome cape on him.

Just like a big old heavy deer. And he just didn't grow crap. And I, I really, when I first saw him, this deer, I was just going along. It was a really foggy, foggy morning. I couldn't see, I couldn't see more than a few hundred yards good. Like these, these deer, they were in some hay fields as I was driving along. And I was like, dang, that looks like a big buck. But he was bedded way in the back. Well, I guess it was in the middle of the field because there was a big section that hadn't been cut because of the way the irrigation in the field was. And he was bedded right at that. And I was like, man, that looks like a big buck. I could just see his face and his body and an outline. And I mean, he was like a 27, eight inch deer. I was just like, geez, that, that looks like a big deer. But I couldn't see because it was so foggy.

And I said, well, I'll just keep working down along these edges of these, these fields. There was kind of fields and then the hillside the deer were going up on. And I just kept working that stuff, glassing it. And I told myself, man, if that buck comes out of the field, like he, I'm dumping him. And I didn't even really look at him. And, but the odds of that happening were very small. Plus you wanted this gun. You wanted this gun. Yeah, I'd never killed a deer with this gun. I killed it. Well, I'd killed a coyote once. A perfect storm. It was. Yeah, that's what I, that was just it. Like I was. Like you did smash a coyote that was super impressive. Yeah, but not long range in the slightest. I think if I remember right, I shot him left-handed even. Anyway. First kill. So I, there were a lot of things that were lined up that deer, that it was going to die if it happened.

And anyway, fast forward a little bit later and all of a sudden those deer came out of the field at a quick clip. Because like the farmer or somebody had come in there that I didn't expect it. I had to cover some, cover some country. And anyway, needless to say, I never even really did look at the deer. I just. Turned and started running away at what happened. Yeah. So I just, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Big buck. Big buck. Big buck. Yeah. Woohoo. No one was there to check me. I had already. Breath coming out of the buck's mouth as he's prancing. I had set the checklist and he had checked every box and there he was on the BLM in front of me. You ranged him. In this little section. Dialed. Yeah. Ranged him and dialed. And I was just like. How far was it? Oh goodness. Yeah. It was. Six something. No, no, no. It was just right around five. Oh.

And anyway, just down into this, I was up higher and he was kind of down into the sagebrush and shot and it was so foggy and humid that morning when I hit him. He took off running. It was a double lung and he just had just steam rolling out. I kind of wish it would have been on video because it was pretty awesome. That's how, because you know, I came off the gun for a minute and got on. I heard it smack when I looked and you could just see steam rolling out of both sides. Wow. Isn't that crazy? It was pretty awesome. And then I got up to him and I. You sent us a picture. Shanks. Adam's like, where's the rest of him? It was pathetic. It looked awesome. I wanted to see. I was like, where's the rest of him? And I'm like. I think it was a teaser pick, wasn't it? Of the cape? Of his face. Yeah. His face and faces. You know how every teaser pick in the world is because, you know.

Anyway, you never get a teaser pick of a 250 buck. It's always like, what do you think of this? It's a full on great pick. Yeah. So it was one of those deer I wasn't necessarily proud of. Probably never see a picture of it. It was awesome, though. What I think was cool. I mean, dude, he was a wide deer. He's just old. Yeah. He wasn't perfect genetic wise. But, you know, got on the board with a good long range shot. It was one of those. You know, you're trying out a couple things. I think the new range finding. Was it the new range finding binos? Yeah. Yeah. The swarrow. Yeah. A lot of different new equipment. I suppose you could. It was time to call it a day. You had another hunt going to be transpiring in Colorado. You killed a 185 buck like the next day, didn't you? Or two days later. Yeah. Colorado. So I think it was a good move. It was good. I had to get down there.

And apparently, from what Jason describes me and that deer, had a lot in common. You know, pretty genetically inferior. Not inferior. I didn't say inferior. Old, heavy. Genetically not what I should be. I said it was a genetic wonder. So he and I. Got a big base. Base hilarious. Good base on it. Greed. All right. Anyway. Question reader guide. We got to answer this question. We can answer it. We got to answer this question. I think we'll go around. What would you do, Braxton? Everybody give a little bit of an opinion. Magic wand. If the magic wand. I guess I don't think individually, like, social media or apps like Onyx are the reason what we are. Social media stuff gets over. You mean they don't pull the trigger? No. Social media gets stuff overhyped, and just like women that are complaining about, you know, everybody gets filtered. We're really going there. Yeah, I am.

That every woman looks beautiful because of filters and all this and that, and every buck can look big because of social media, and everybody's killing one but me. You can get that feeling on social media, but that still doesn't mean everybody's killing big bucks and killing all the big bucks. I do think of all these things, the technology, the advancements that we all have, some of which I don't know how you're ever going to go back from the best binos that we've ever had, you know, or rifle scopes or rifles. I don't know how you limit somebody and say you can't shoot an animal over four, five, six hundred yards. I don't know how you can enforce certain things like that. But you can do things on other weapons, you know, like say muzzleloaders. You, I do think in some of the states that have had heavy trail cam and baiting issues,

that's a bigger deal than most people are wanting to admit that it is. I just, I just do. And I'm talking mainly with mule deer. Um, elk, I don't know that that's, you know, near as big a deal. I think trail cameras have killed elk during the rut in certain places. No question about that. But I think mule deer, um, I think, I think those things are going to help. I do think limiting our technology, you know, the use of, let's say thermal. I think that, you know, doesn't get talked about a lot. Most people that use it don't talk about it at all, even though it's being used and kind of underground and Hey, it's been illegal. So I'm not, I'm not telling people you did it wrong or anything like that in the past. I just think collectively, some of these things that you can say, Hey, that's a little bit too much. We're not going to do that.

We'll have an impact, but I don't know how you say, Hey, the binos, um, the guns, um, the guides. I mean, some States, I guess are taking steps on the number of guides you can have with you in the field, namely Utah. There's a law passed here. So maybe that's a step to the, you know, 25 guides. But I mean, other States, I don't know if that's going to catch on like it, like it's been passed in Utah. And I think for the most part, that's being done on the one or two tags in a state. You know what I mean? A governor tag situation or something. That's not being done by, it can't be cost effective for outfitters to have that many guides with every hundred. I mean, I'm an outfitter and I know even on the Henry mountains, my crew is always out manned by a normal Joe blow that has eight or 10 of his family out there. It's always out manned. And, and we've still done fine.

I'm not complaining about it, but I've never had more guys on the field than other normal hunters have had on the field with me in the Henry mountains and places like that. I've never, you know, we have two to three, maybe max four. And that's usually if we finish 100, we got a couple of guys come over.

Sheep. I, I, I don't have any objection killing the oldest. That's what we should do. Sheep are a ticking time bomb. I don't have as much, you know, you talked about deer, elk and sheep being older sheep, whether it be trail cameras or glass or more hunters. Sheep are just a different thing. When a ram's eight, 10 years old, you better kill him because he's going to be dead in the rocks at any time and just, and to large extent deer and elk too, they're, you know, I don't want to see them wasted, but I don't have as much. I, I like to have some deer to just get away, I guess. And I don't know how to quantify that. It's harder to judge age on deer. So I think it's like sheep. You could say that that ram's eight years old or nine years old. Like we need to shoot that ram. He's going to be dead. Deer, you never know.

Sometimes if he's five or nine and where he's at, you know, in the death scale of his life. But I don't know. It's a hard one to quantify, but I, I, I understand. I mean, the rifles and optics probably have played a big, bigger impact perhaps than more than any of the technology. I just don't know how you govern it and say without saying you can't have above this magnification power on your, or on your gun. Or scope at all. Scope at all. That's the only thing you could ever do. I just don't know how you intervene. People have thrown that out. Like on Monster Mealies, right, Wyatt? You were seeing some. Yep. People have thrown that out. A lot. Four power scopes. Four pins limited to four pins on a bow. Four pins on your bow. But you look at technology and how far we came in the last 15 years. What's 10 years from now going to be? I know. It's hard to think we can get much better.

Well, now people are shooting. Anyway, your range finder's hooking to your scope and adjusting your scope without a lot of effort. So, yeah. So, there's things like that. There's certain things that we've talked about, like maybe some of the thermal during the hunts and that, that feels like, all right, maybe that's crossing the line. Being able to find an animal before daylight, be on it, shoot them right daylight, or find it in daylight, you know, behind in the trees. I mean, maybe it feels wrong to some people. Maybe it is wrong. Some of those things feel like, okay, you can't use thermal. I don't know how you regulate the caliber of gun, the bullet you shoot, and the scope really effectively and easily. Well, here's one for you. Let you do a four-crime. No smokeless powder in muzzleloaders, have you ever been checked?

Would an officer know how to tell the difference between smokeless or not? Yeah, probably. Maybe. Well, maybe not with blackboard. Maybe. But I'm just saying, those are hard things to regulate. So, Devin, you got any ideas?

Magic wand that you would take away from this list, it'd have to be, I mean, right down to the science of it, I'd say it'd be the rifles. Because without those, things can still get away. Like, with all that in the list. Okay, so, yeah. And I agree, and I've just kind of admitted that. Like, just in what he listed of all those things. What's your criteria, then? Are you going to do a three to nine power scope? Bolt action? What are you going to do? No turrets? You can't tell someone how far they can shoot. I mean, you can make a non-turreted scope as turret, you know. Yeah, you can only limit what they can do with their piece of equipment. So a scope would limit the gun. Yeah, I mean, imagine one of these general units in Utah, you just say, it's an open sight rifle unit. I don't know. Lever action 30-30 only. That's all you could ever do. Wyatt, what's some of your ideas?

I don't have many besides what you guys have already talked about. Long range rifles definitely, probably one of the top killers out there. I mean, optics goes hand in hand with that though too. I mean, great glass, being able to glass things up that distance. Range finders, being able to get an accurate range find. So we could only use a certain brand of optic to limit the quality. You have to scuff 75% of your lens. Yeah. Well, even if you glass them, if you're hunting with a 30-30, you still got to go in and kill them. Yeah. I don't know. Josh, you got any ideas? I think collectively, as all of them have some, I don't think social media does because you can't tell anything on social media. But Onyx, personally, for me, when I think about, or I would say my generation or younger generation below me, I'm not saying that's what's the cause.

But I feel like with apps like Onyx or Google Earth, something like that, a lot of guys are finding out how to get into weird places and weird spots, finding waters that never existed that they would have had to have hiked to before. I don't know. Something like that, I feel like personally has helped me because I'll spend a lot of time just looking at Onyx and going, whoa, I've lived here my whole life, 40 years, and I didn't realize this little child. I'm still discovering. I guess what I'm saying, I'm discovering stuff that I've never been to, that I never would have just hiked to for a gee whiz, that I've found on first to give me a reason to go there first. Is it killing or anything like that? I don't know. But what I'm saying is it's giving me more options to get out because I look at a lot of harvest data,

and there's a lot of harvest stuff that percentages of harvest hasn't gone up or changed a whole lot. But I feel like we're more efficient with the ones we are killing, so long-range rifles, optics, rangefinders, all that. We can target a bigger buck, a better buck. We don't just go out and kill a deer. We're killing a specific deer or trying to hunt a specific deer. And so all of it helps, but I feel like some of those type of things almost help a guy that maybe, say, is new to hunting or doesn't know much about hunting. It helps him get an advantage a lot faster than a guy that's just had to go learn it himself. I don't know. I agree. But you still got to go hike there. You do. You got to put it in. You do. Anything that requires that, I don't have as much. But states like Colorado. I feel like personally, I feel like Onyx has hurt in the fact that the guzzlers,

a lot of the guzzlers are on Onyx depending on the state. And then just like the winter range locations, like Colorado, we've learned how to hunt winter range, and then you have apps like Onyx telling you where the winter range is. And with conviction, I'm going to go there second, third, and fourth season, which is the bulk of the take anyway. You know what I mean? And, yeah, Onyx hasn't pulled the trigger. I love how hunters just love to say that trail cameras don't pull the trigger. I just love that. Yeah. Because it's not even so dumb. Yeah, it's so dumb. But, you know, Wyatt, I don't mean to keep stepping on you. Jump in. Yeah, I was just going to bring up Onyx. Another thing about Onyx there, like a state like Colorado, know where you are kind of deal. I mean, a lot of that winter ground was off limits when the paper maps kind of thing because you're not going to get.

We had to learn how to read a paper map. Yeah. And we did. And then you'd say this fence post has to be this corner. It was easier not to go try to walk. Yeah. Yes. Because you don't. Now with conviction, you can pull the trigger. It doesn't have to be posted in Colorado. Yeah. So places like that, though, Adam, I think laws like that, and same thing with Montana. Onyx was developed in Montana. And that was because they had to deal with it. There were so many private. Yeah. And it's good to keep it illegal, but it also now gives you the conviction that I can access that. But the laws created the demand for Onyx. Yeah. Now, I mean, you don't want to go to Colorado without Onyx. Oh, yeah. No, because your burden's on you. It doesn't have to be posted in Colorado. Yeah, and they're going to take your hunting privileges for 20 years,

and you're going to be a poacher and a felon thrown up on every social media website. And you run those risks. So you're forced to support apps like Onyx. And it's the laws that make it to where, like Utah, if you're not posted properly, you can hunt it. You know, Nevada. Range one, yeah. If you're not posted properly in Nevada, you know, you can hunt it. And so, you know, that doesn't force the need for Onyx as much. But, you know, I think that and then learning, you throw up all these. Of course, Onyx is trying to compete with everybody else or at least create a larger barrier of entry for new products to compete with them. So they're throwing up the guzzlers. They're throwing up the winter ranges, summer ranges, different animal activities. They're throwing on the overlays of Wyoming deer units. You can go take that layer off and throw up the sheet layers.

And then the corridors, I mean, just more and more layers. So, yeah, it does. You're armed with. Like Josh's thing. It does. Hunter wants to start today. You give him tools like that, some great binos, glass, and tripod. You're effective. Compare that to when we started hunting. You're effective. You would go to 43 with conviction now with Onyx, whereas before, Adam, 43 dealing with the private. You were scared to shoot him. A lot of gear lived. You know what I mean? Yeah, it didn't pull the trigger. But, come on, what kind of argument is that? Luckily, I had a fence. If there wasn't a fence, you're really scared. I think there's one thing I think about social media. I think it gives people the tenacity just to stick with it. Spurs them on. It spurs them on, man. Like, you're spurred on. You're like, people are doing it. And we know, think about this. There was a buck killed in 2001.

I'll never forget. It's a 4x5. It scored 246 or something net, okay, as a 5x6. Like an absolute giant. And I think nowadays, with social media, we would know if 2001 was a good year or not. So, if it's not a good year, we all know it by social media. We don't even have to go out and run our own cameras. We know what the world's thinking. And we'll either put a lot of work in on it or not. And if it's a good year, we're going to work harder. We're going to put more resources to it. We're going to put more time to it. And so, I think social media is training people. Besides that, just training people. It's teaching. It's up your expectations this year. You've better perform. It's off the charts. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. We're all excited. Look at this. Oh, by the way, here's the first trail camera pictures. Here's the first video. Here's phone scope.

Here's my phone scope footage. It's pretty amazing. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be an awesome year on the Oaks. It's going to be an awesome year on the Henry's. Paul and Scott's looking better than it was last year. You know what I mean? And I'm not going to turn my tag back then if it's going to be awesome. Whereas, maybe if you didn't know all those things, you might turn your tag back. You know what I mean? Or you'd have people waiting for the absolute perfect year. But we know when these perfect years happen just by social media. Just by social media. It's teaching us. Or so-and-so hunted over here. I know that because of this and that and the other. And by the way, this is what he killed. Wyatt, you know, these guides and outfitters are scouting on social media. Oh, you can learn a lot from it for sure. I mean, even here at the office, you can scroll through it and say,

oh, look, this has got to be that ponce gump buck or this has got to be that. This guy spends a lot of time here. He's still alive. That buck got killed. I never knew. Devin, you were hunting a buck. You found him on social media. He got smashed. General, right up here on top. Oh, yeah. I always wondered what happened to the. Yeah. He disappeared. He didn't go back because he died. He died. He died. But without social media, you would have went back. You would have hunted a ghost. You would have hunted a ghost. Here's what's funny about that is the guy who killed it. I don't know who he is. I don't know anything. Somebody else just said he died. So, you know, it's just. And then they conferred. It's a web, right? You're reading the comments. He died at first light opening morning. He was my number one. And so then the next year, you didn't hunt there.

The next year you went down and were hunting a total different deer, putting pressure on a different area, whereas you would have let that pressure. You would have pressured this area that didn't have a shooter in it. Yeah, it just saved you time. And I just, it teaches us. And these things have credibility in terms of being causes of spurring people on or actually literally making you be more effective. Or sheds. Like people are picking up a certain amount of big sheds in a particular area. And with social media, we're not dumb. Oh, this kid, he pounds this area. He does not go to southern Wyoming. That's a southern Utah buck. That's a southern Utah set of sheds. I mean, we're all, you know. So anyway, so there's just a lot of that. As far as guides, I just don't think you can limit. Like how can you tell people they can't work? I just have a hard time.

Do I think that, would it be nice if we didn't have a whole entire, you know, family, whatever. Let's call it a, you know, 14 layers of family members or whatever. Putting pressure on an area. I guess I can see the struggle with that. I just don't know how you curtail it. But what you can do is curtail seasons. I have a hard time with the rifles. How do you curtail it? But you can curtail a season. You could do a New Mexico five-dayer. You know what I mean? Maybe two New Mexico five-dayers in October. Maybe, right? But instead, we're doing nine days. Or whatever. It depends on the state. I mean, Nevada, we're hunting rifles for how long? I mean, sometimes it's October 5th to November 5th. Yeah, but they got big bulls in Nevada. And they're able to maintain them for the bulls. Because of, I'm talking. Tag numbers. Yeah. Tag numbers and seasons. And not hunting rifle in the rut.

But then, like on deer, you got an October 5th to November 5th. That's awesome. But it's really not keeping up with the times. You should limit. In my opinion, you want to save deer, you should maybe limit that a little bit. I don't know. I mean, there's. But you can't necessarily. It's hard to limit the rifles. But you can work with the seasons. Muzzle loaders, you can make them primitive. You know, in my mind. Trail cam seasons. Listen to the Arizona guys. Everybody says trail cameras don't pull the trigger. Listen to them. Everybody knows. It's not. It's not even worth discussing. And then, you know, I think. I think Onyx gives us confidence in the field. Onyx gives us confidence in the field. And to hunt areas we otherwise may have been scared to hunt. Because we'd lose our hunting privileges. On top of wintering deer areas. Bronson. With you guys. We're all hunting.

I'm hunting a unit this year. You think I'm not going to look at where the wintering areas are? Like. You know what I mean? And it's easy. With your kids. I'm here. I'm within a wintering area. I'm going to start glassing. Right? I mean. You know what I mean? So. All right. Did we miss? No. 25 years ago. We could do a whole podcast on that probably. It's not an easy one. It's. There's. There's some. I guess the biggest thing is. There's some things you can quantifiably say. You can't do this and this. That. You know. Take your scopes off muzzleloaders. Or. No thermal. Or trail cameras stop on this day. And there's. They're going to have an input. Are they the greatest impact? Hard to really say that. And. How do you. How do you really say the rifle cartridge scope? I guess that magnification on your scope. Is about the only thing I can think of.

Think about Iowa's straight walled cartridges. Oh yeah. 14,000 layers. Yeah. You can use some center fires of them now. The hams. I mean there's. You know. You could. And maybe it comes to that. Maybe it does come to that at some point. I don't know. We'd still come out with some wazoo quickly down under. Hey. I've got a shotgun coming that's pretty legit. Not going to lie. You know. When's it going to be here? I don't know. I'll tell you. I'll take it out for a turkey shoot. On a lunch turkey shoot for Epic Outdoors. I'd like to try this thing. Hey. Going to be pretty cool. Well. Anyway. There's just. There's just. You know. And I think too. You look at forums. Forums were the first form of social media there was. Yeah. And you think people didn't learn something from Monster Muleys? Hey. Some of y'all are addicted to Monster Muleys. Some. And I was. And I need to go back to it.

Because there's a lot of things being said on there that I could learn from. And I think part of this is. You know. Part of what it's teaching us. Is the people on there are teaching us that. There seems to be a shift. And the majority of people think that there should be some. Regulation. Regulation. Yep. I think people are starting to realize that we are. That they are. Too effective. Too effective. And maybe that we should have some deer live. Or elk live. It's not. Yeah. Not a bad thing to have some old deer now. Not have everyone. Need to be going. Go home. All right. Back to the truck. 71. Yeah. Let's talk about the 72 Chevys. Chevy. Or the. Or. Hey. How about a Ford Highboy? I don't know. I have some fond memories. I just can't wait to see Carter's next. Kill pick. Every time I'm behind one of these trucks. I want a final shirt. Every time I'm behind one of these carbureted trucks.

I'm like. I tell Janet. You have to turn the air on. Recycle. Because you choke down the fume. 14 cars behind you. You're still choking down the fumes. And we used to. Hey. We thrived in those things. Full lead. Lead. Yeah. Oh. Lead. Lead paint. Lead gas. Everything had lead. Everything good had lead in. All right. Even a good muzzleloader slug.

All right. One more. Let's try to. This might be a two hour podcast. But. We. We've got to. Draw a line on sand somewhere. We're drawing it. After this question. All right. Sheridan Chamberlain. He says. Love the podcast. It's kind of a two part question. I guess. First question. With our deer numbers so low in southern Utah. Why would they do a doe hunt. For an area. For an area with very little private lands. And no hunting danger. I can't wait for your answer on this Josh. But I think this is an amazing question. I agree. I agree. Enterprise Valley doe hunt. Question mark. And in summer. August. Fawns out. Second question. Does the BLM check the range cages. To monitor the feed in areas. To stop livestock. From being able to use public lands. Or is that a thing in the past?

First point of clarification. For me. Because I don't. I don't look at hump boundaries. But. Wouldn't Enterprise Valley doe hunt. Be a doe hunt around agricultural areas. That's why I was a little bit. Confused by it. I don't know. But I think. Maybe it goes up into the foothills too. And I could be wrong. Because yes. I would agree. If it's. But we know what the gist he's saying. We shouldn't be having rangeland doe hunts in southern Utah. We want to eliminate the does from. From all our winter range on the base of Cedar Mountain here. For example. Regardless of Enterprise. I mean. You know what I mean. Like it feels like. Why are we so hard on these deer right here. Because of one or two landowners. You know what I mean. That are whining a little bit. Am I wrong. Like what do you guys. You guys don't agree with them. And I have to open up my antlerless regs.

To see if they even have those. Do they even have. I don't think they do anymore. But. They've pretty well. Most of the doe hunts now in Utah. And there has to be a defined boundary. Because that's the hard part. You can't just make it. A defined. Or an imaginary boundary. And expect you guys to stay to it. So they'll put a county road here. And you're going to have some. Have an emergency season. Sometimes they'll run up to like a forest boundary. Something. Just to make a good boundary. Where there's a fence. A road. Something that's. You know. Enforceable. But most of the time. I think the states have been a little lethargic. In changing. When our deer numbers are low. And I think that's what the frustration is. It's. A mismanagement by. By. At times. It feels like. By. Apathy. To make change. Yeah. And the thing was. Back in. Like say. 14, 15, 16, 17.

We grew a significant amount of deer. We had a lot of deer.

And I. You could see it. On rangelands. As well as just in ag lands. I mean. There was some of these places. That you'd go. And. I used to be a biologist of. Say. The fields in. Angle. Over there north of Otter Creek Reservoir. I mean. There were 700 to a thousand. A deer. In those fields alone. Which. Is that a lot? No. Not a lot. But. Yes. If those are your fields. And it was significant. And it wasn't in the summer range. It was obviously. Or in the summer. It was a little bit later in the year. But you go to those fields now. And there's maybe a hundred. And a lot of that's just all. Just conditions due to drought. Most of the time. When you see a lot of those kind of hunts. It's because of. Depredation. Agriculture. You know. And issues. And when they're not your fields. It's easy to. Say. Well. Why do you worry about them? You know. But. When it's your livelihood. You. Well.

When it's a legal obligation. Right. In the fall. And it's a legal obligation. To either compensate them. In terms of money. Yeah. Or remove the problem. And. And that's why. Even though it sounds bad. To shoot a doe in August. When they got fawns. The goal is to reduce deer. And so. Consequently. If you kill the doe. And the fawns die. I mean. The problem's still being solved. In the. Scheme of what the hunt's designed for. Even though it doesn't feel good. Right. Whatever. But. Still makes you see red. Oh it does. It sucks. It doesn't make you feel great. And I hope. As we hopefully come out of this drought. In the coming years. And start doing better. They don't creep back. And I think. Yeah. I think those days. Just feel like they're gone in Utah. Yeah. I mean. And when we were kids. They had them down in Hart Point. Beef Basin. Yeah. I mean. We had.

And I know there were a lot more deer back then. And now that sagebrush is dead. Now it's elk winter range down there pretty much. But.

Yeah. We don't. We don't need range. I'm not a fan of shooting almost anywhere. I'm not a fan of shooting any does. And I struggle with the landowners that get compensated with landowner tags. Still complain about numbers. And I just. I struggle with some. Yeah. But then I also struggle with wild horses. And you know. I don't think that. You know. Some of these guys that are running cattle. On public lands. Are being. You know. Forced to change their ways a little bit. Maybe reduce their numbers. Or the timing of when they pull off. And nobody does anything about horses. Yeah. And you know. I struggle with a lot. That. There's some of these things that don't have a good answer. It feels like. Yeah. And you look at this stuff. Like out here along this Parowan Front Summit. All out through there. You know. When we have those significant deer numbers. When you go in and throw in a freeway.

And block off. I mean. These. Those deer from the mountain. Which. A lot of those deer. Now we've learned. They come from all over the place. You know. The top of the Zion. The top of Penguich Lake. And they used to be able to go clear out to the iron mines. If they wanted to go out that far. And so they could really scatter out. Now they come down and hit the freeway. And they're blocked right there. And they're done. And so when you have that many deer on that. Just a little strip right there. Now it's a nicer. They've done a lot of projects. And everything like that. But. We used to have to go out there. In relation to. I guess the BLM. Little cages that they have. We used to have to go do. Winter range monitoring. And you. There would be. There's designated plots. I mean. There's stakes in the ground. You'd go out. And you'd measure. And you'd do circles. And you'd count.

Pellet counts. And things like that. You'd count. Leader growth on sagebrush. All that kind of stuff. And DWR biologists do that. As far as BLM. I'm not sure what they do. A lot of that's strictly just. They say. A cow can't go on the range. Unless their grass height is X high. And when it gets down below that. For stubble stuff. They pull them off. But. Yeah. They also have. The division. Most people don't know. The division has a range crew. They do. They do. Which has their own. Line vegetation transects. All throughout. Mostly winter ranges. Or sagebrush. Stab type habitats. There are some. In some ranges. But I believe they do it. Every five years. Because there's five regions. Throughout the state. But when I was a biologist. They used to come to. Southern region. Every five years. So they do the trend date. Every five years. Basically go out. To the exact same places. Do photos.

Do. Literally they'll put a tape measure out. For the hundred yards. Or whatever. Yeah. And they'll count. Yeah. They'll count. Pellets within that. But they're also. Every place that the. Tape measure intersects. Brows or feed of any kind. They mark the presence of species. And deer utilization of it. Or whatever. And it's very. Very in detail. It is. The little basket sheet. Run across. That we. All see from time to time. That has. Grass coming out of the. You know. As long as the cage. Is staked to the ground. And the cows don't tip it over. Because if it's just sitting on the ground. It gets tipped over. And the cows graze it off. And it means nothing. But. The division ones are very good. And they actually publish that data. And that's. They're still using them. That's your point. They do. They do. Like I see these little triangulated. Cages. Right. Little rabbit cages.

Well those ones. Specifically. There we are. There we are. There we are. There we are. There we are. So those. These other ones are not. Do you think. They're still being used. Used. I can't say that. That they are. I drive by them. And there's grass coming out the tops. And there's no. It's kind of interesting. Yeah it is. Right. But I mean. Is that formulated somewhere? Remember we used to have old exclosures. That they would build. And they'd have tall ones. That nothing could get into. And then the ones right next to it. Would be just cattle can in. And so you couldn't get in. So you could see what impact. Deer and rabbits. Deer are having. And rabbits are having. Maybe jumping inside here. And eating brush. And inside here. Where nothing can get in. But. Yeah. I don't see as many of those built. No. They build them more for aspen. And stuff like that. Yeah.

Now than they do sagebrush. But the division does a good job. About making permanent range transects. Throughout the state. And usually. That's where a lot of their. You know. Input comes in terms of. Population objective for deer and elk. Yeah. You know. If they know that. Hey. Our trends are all going down. And there's places. They'll either have to. You know. Prescribe a bunch of habitat treatments. Which isn't a fast fix. We all know that. By the time you run a project proposal. Through government agency. Get the funding. And do it. It takes time. And then. Sometimes one burn. Does more habitat. Than we could ever even afford to do. Yeah. You know what I mean. And then you got to have the animals. To utilize that burn. Or habitat project. Yeah. And so I'm with Sheridan. I think we all are. I like the answers. But I think we all are. If there. If there's a doe hunt.

And you're under objective. That's frustrating. No question about it. Same thing. Cow elk hunt. Whatever it may be. So. You're under objective. Don't do it. I'm not a real fan. Of killing the mamas. All right. Well. Can we call it a day? Oh yeah. Can we call it a day? You guys wallowed out. Let's give away one of these pair of diamondbacks. To somebody that reposts this podcast. On a storyline. And tags epic hunts. What do you guys say? Sound good? What deadline do you want to give Josh? Let's do it. Let's do something the next. Today. Today's Tuesday. Do something by Thursday. Or next Monday. Probably won't. Yeah. We'd have to be next week. Because this probably won't get out. What do you mean? This podcast. I'll bet it comes out tonight. Huh? We had a couple of you guys drop some. Okay. Oh. Okay. Oh. Okay. Okay. Guys. All right. So let's do something. When you hear this. Next week.

Should we do it on a Tuesday. Since that's probably when everybody will come in to work on time. Tuesday sounds great. Tuesday. Is there any concerts this weekend, Wyatt? Hey. I had to make a live choice. Stampede Rodeo. Nephi, Utah. Are you? Is that this weekend? This weekend. Yeah. Are you going? I'm going. When he gets kids, Bronson, he ain't going to be doing all this. He's not going to have anything. He ain't going to be doing all this. Well, no. He'll be doing more. It'll just be, you know, T-ball and parades and dance recitals. I can't wait to see Wyatt coaching T-ball. This is the Nephi celebration. Coaching T-ball. Like, you got to go back at least once a year. I thought it was always over the 24th. He's kind of a big deal in Nephi. A week before? I don't know about that. Are you the grand marshal? The big deal of Nephi. Yes. The big deal of Nephi is worth the 550.

Wyatt's in the parade. The grand marshal. Come on. Is he doing the hand wave? Yeah. I've got the hand wave down. What? They got you a seat in the old Buick? No. The father has returned. I got family and cousins coming to town. It's good to go see them. Friends in high school. Is everybody related to everybody? No. It's not that small a town. You have bigger than Monticello. Yeah. Lots bigger than Monticello. Monticello they are? Bronson? No. No. But no. Very closely. You had to go to the res? Residate? No. Maybe Blanding. 20 miles or so. I'm with you. I'm with you. All right. So let's give a pair of Diamondbacks. If you repost this podcast in your storyline, you can tag Epic Hunts, at Epic Hunts. Don't do hashtag Epic Hunts because we don't see that. We can easily miss it. Do the actual at symbol, at Epic Hunts on Instagram or Facebook, Epic underscore Hunts. And we'll be entered to win.

By Tuesday the 19th. Okay. Sounds good. By Tuesday the 19th. All right, everybody. We are, by the way, taking Fridays off to scout. Everybody else in the world should be taking Fridays off to scout. Right? I agree. All right. So anyway, don't be calling us on Fridays or don't get mad at us if you do call us on Friday and don't get us. We'll be here at Monday. Take your calls, but only afternoon. Wyatt wants office hours. I got here at 930. Wyatt wants office hours to be noon on Monday through Thursday. Come on. It's hard to get a 40 in from noon Monday. Bankers put in more hours than that. We can do it here at this office as early as we come in. We can do it. All right. All right, everybody. Have a great week. At Epic Outdoors, we help you reach your hunting dreams, whether it's helping you to develop a long-term application strategy or finding the perfect outfitter for your next hunt.

As a member of Epic Outdoors, you'll also receive the Epic Outdoors magazine and have access to the best hunting consultants in the industry, online tools, and more. To join Epic Outdoors, visit epicoutdoors.com or call 435-263-0777. Thank you. Thank you.