EP 248: Guest Blayne St James and Q&A Part 3

Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Epic Outdoors crew here in southern Utah. We've had a lot of rain lately. Been pretty awesome, we're pretty excited, we've got a lot going on here. Bronson's actually on the first time of the year. Him and his boy went up there to the Yukon. And in reach just smashed a couple of just absolute awesome rams. We're looking forward to seeing the photos. So just a little, you know, just throwing that out there. It's something for us all to look forward to. It's starting off the year right. And we've got a lot of enthusiasm from, you know, here in the office as well as members. Looking forward to what this year's going to bring. That's unlike first blood. Make you jealous. I can't wait to hear the story. Yeah. The little bits of in reach messages that we got, it's definitely a story. Don't want to ruin it for the podcast because I'm sure it'll be fun to listen to.

So anyway, what about you guys? Got anything good going on? What? Montana Antelope came out today, a little bit late. But frustrating. It just hit. So we looked up those results and that's what's going on in the license app side of things. Yeah. Montana Rifle Antelope came out. Here we are in August. That's a good time. August is a good time to have some results come out and make some fall hunting plans. But anyway, that was good. We drew some guys. Congratulations to the guys that drew and got lucky. That's awesome. You know, it starts with tags. You've got to have tags in your pocket. Of course, we played the Colorado return list. Ended up getting a tag. Some of us didn't get tags. Wyatt didn't get a tag. Yeah. Still tagline. Tagless. Tagless in Seattle. In Colorado. Tagless in Colorado. Tagless in Colorado.

I don't know. Josh, were you trying? Not really. Half-heartedly. There's something about getting a tag. Like, you just get the tag and then pay for it and then send it back. Yeah.

Feels good. Anyway, that's the major part of the battle is getting the tag. Well, here on this particular podcast, we wanted to call our good friend Blaine St. James of St. James Sporting Property. Kind of visit with him, seeing what he's got going on. Maybe, hopefully, he'll slip up a little bit. Tell us where he's hunting a big deer or what he's found. And who knows? You always learn something from Blaine. He's a good guy in the industry. Very smart, intelligent guy. Good hunter. And he's privy to what's out there, especially Colorado. A lot of that Colorado, Wyoming country. He spends a lot of time out in the hills looking at ranches, fishing, and hunting as well. So, he's got an eye for good properties, good game, and properties that have the ability in genetics to produce great game, as well as the tag allocation systems with landowners.

And so, if you're looking at picking up a good piece of property or investing, he's a great resource. He's got his pulse on the economies, the local economies and property valuations. And then, you know, as far as the hunting side of things, too, which, of course, we're all interested. Anybody that's listening to the podcast is a hunter. At least, hopefully. If you're not a hunter, we welcome you to leave. All right. So, anyway. I thought you were going to say, welcome you to join. I thought you were going to say, too. Welcome you to leave. Get out of here. All right. Don't be bothering us hunters. All right. Let's call Blaine and see what he's got to say, guys.

Hello. How are you doing? Doing well. I heard you got to hunt. You're getting ready to go scout for it, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Been scouting pretty hard. We've got some tags, you know, here in Utah for a change, actually. Jenna's got a deer tag, and I've got a deer tag. My kids have got deer tags. And so, we're just, you know, been kind of spending some time out. But also trying to take care of the office. You know what that's like. It's like you don't do the scouting right. You don't do the office right. And you're hoping everything comes together. You know what I mean? That's the old jelly donut, right? Put a little pressure over here and it squeezes over there. Yeah. Usually get a little on your shoe. So, whatever. Yeah. I'm very familiar with that. I understand it. So, anyway, here we are in August. I know you're a busy guy. You know, been trying to get you on the podcast here.

But what do you got going? I mean, what's August mean for you, for hunting, and St. James Sporting Properties? Man, there's a lot of questions unpacked there. No pressure. Just write them down. Where are you hunting? Where's a big buck? Okay. There's number one. No, we, well, you know, it's just an inner, it's a tough time of year, right? We're all family guys. And it's, school seems to be starting earlier and earlier, right? So, you're kind of juggling sports and work at all. A lot of clients coming in town, getting ready for hunting season or looking at properties. So, that kind of spreads it in. And trying to set up trail cameras, excuse me, to document wildlife. So, it's just a lot of moving parts, right? Yeah. So, August is probably, July and August are peak time as far as being on the road and traveling a lot.

Unfortunately, I got to, I'm a little, I'm doing a little car shopping. I was on the road last night, got to a little bit of a fender bender down in Denver. So, I'm trying to decide if I want to go to the dark side and buy a Ford or stick with GMC. So, that's what's on my mind right now. So, that means you've got a GMC and you're trying to decide if you're going to switch? Yeah, yeah. Don't, yeah, probably don't switch. Yeah, I don't know. I think I'll probably stick with it. We'll see. Well, you don't have back problems and it's probably because you have a GMC. There you go.

What, how bad of a fender bender? Because this could be our next truck, M truck. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't too terribly bad. Two cars got totaled. I was pretty fortunate. I was blessed there and kind of swerved around. But if I wasn't pulling my trailer, I probably could have stopped. I was about four feet shy and just drilled this pickup truck trying to navigate, keep boning another guy. Wow. It was a fiasco. But all good, man. Minor details. Everybody walked away. So, we got insurance. Yeah. Well, it's hard to find vehicles. I know. Wyatt, you've been trying to find a vehicle. No, not me. Oh. I was going to say, I was supposed to be. Yeah. What do you mean? You've got a brown tundra that you've been trying to send down the road. Well, I've been debating. I mean, not really doing hard, but I've been talking about it. I thought that meant you were well on your way.

Jason's been truck shopping for me. For you. For you, yes. Jason tried to buy a truck yesterday because it was in the parking lot and the battery died. They were jumping. Well. Hey, maybe they'll sell it. Jason, I understand. You're my kind of people. It's a little bit of vulnerable moment. It's a yellow, which is, in my mind, a terrible color. It's yellow Ford Ranger. And the battery was signed. They're out jumping it. And I'm like, that's a truck I'm trucking. They're going to be mad right now. Let's go out and snag it. You know? No. Turns out it's pretty new and they're happy with it. So, anyway. Well, right on. So, we've got that. You're obviously scouting a bit. And then it sounds like you're busy with family and whatnot. But tell me a little bit about the economy and maybe a little bit about the properties and things like that. What you've got going on that way. Yeah.

It's interesting.

Let's see how I can stay on course with this and not take you down to me rabbit holes. I truly think, you know, I'm pretty transparent. You guys know that. Well, that's what we like to do. I think we're at the height of the market. But, you know, certain segments, you know, we operate in multiple states. I think some states have already crested and are probably, you know, slowing down a little bit. Colorado and New Mexico are still holding pretty strong right now.

And so, that's kind of interesting. So, there's a lot to unpack on this one, actually. I got a lot of thoughts on this. Well, that's what I – when you weren't able to say anything because we hadn't called you yet, I basically introduced you without you knowing. And that's what I like about you is you're able to, you know, talk about the local economies, the valuation of properties from a hunter's perspective, also from a business perspective, also from just even maybe a non-hunter's perspective, and a guy that's just looking to maybe invest some cash or whatnot. And so, you've got a good handle on a lot of angles on properties, buying and selling and both. I mean, this would be a good time for a guy to offload some property maybe. And so, anyway, that's – Yeah. You know, that's what I like about what you've got going on.

And then, of course, you're diversified in a lot of different states. Well, all right. So, I'll kind of break it down a little bit. So, the segments in the market, I think, are going to – you won't see necessarily a pullback on. You might see them slow down and possibly stagnate. But I think you're not going to see massive depreciation. It's essentially going to be probably $2.5 million and higher on those type of properties. I do think when you start getting below that number, a lot of people finance it as interest rates continue to accelerate and go up. I mean, they're probably going to jump over to 7% here pretty soon. That will impact.

Not that these aren't expensive properties, but in terms of ranches, they're kind of lower-end properties. But they're still – you know, they're a lot of money, right? But the guys who are financing it, all of a sudden, you're going from rates that are, you know, sub-3% in some cases to now you're jumping into 6%, 7% interest rate that's locked for three or five years, you know, your buying power goes down quite a bit. But most of the guys who have a substantial amount of cash on the sideline, they're not buying these properties. They're buying a bigger property. So, I do think there's going to be opportunity coming down the road to pick up properties again that kind of got priced out from a lot of people. I think guys who are patient, that's going to be a sit and wait.

Unless – and here's where I fall into this category because I was dead set against personally investing in the market right now because it's hard to find value in real estate on some of the smaller-end properties. And I was just telling one of my agents that. And they're probably going to kill me for saying this on this podcast. But, again, I'm being honest, right? So, I'm like, you know, I'm going to pull back a little bit. But, shoot. Man, I found the perfect ranch for me and my family. It hadn't been on the market in 50 years. And I pulled the trigger on it. We just closed on it yesterday. And part of my strategy, kind of going into this, how I create value, is the last several ranches I've owned, I bought adjoining properties and put them together. Okay. Putting ranches back together or whatever. Yeah.

So, that's how we've got a long-term track record of creating value for our clients and as well, personally. Instead of breaking up ranches, actually putting them back together. Wow. And that's kind of what I'm in the middle of now. And I made a good deal on one piece. And I'm the other guy. I'm closing on it in a few weeks. I'm overpaying probably 25%. But I need the piece. And it creates overall value for the entire project. Because it seems nowadays people are into breaking them up and selling smaller pieces. And so, it's kind of maybe counterintuitive. I don't know. To be putting back together like you're doing. You know what I mean? Yeah. You're absolutely right. And that's why we've, I think, kind of had a lot of success in doing that, Jason. It's, you know, occasionally you do pick up a good deal.

And then you've got to sit here and figure out who the neighbors, how you can add to it, how you create more value. Whether it's putting in a conservation easement, setting it up for your family later down the road. You know, things like that. But it's, you know, it's just being patient and finding the deal. And what I'm telling people right now is just be patient. You know, if it's the right deal, let's jump on it. And you've got to move quick if it's the right deal. You still have to move quick. There's a lot more buyers out there than there are good properties. Right. Okay. Well, I've got a lot of questions. Shoot. Is there a big deer on this property? The tag allocation? Where are we at on transferable landowner tags? Like, that's what I like. Another thing about you is you get to know how to acquire tags and the whole tag system and, you know, things like that.

And so, and where is this property? You know, things like that. There's no GPS coordinates. We're in Colorado. And, yeah. The interesting thing about this area, I'll tell you, is that we're so much private land and very little public land that the elk hunting for an over-the-counter unit is actually, it's pretty phenomenal. You know, consistently in that area, killing 350-plus bulls.

So, it was kind of a, kind of lucked into it a little bit. Yeah. All right. Well, good. How about fishing? I know you're a fisherman. Is there fishing on the property?

No, this is just a hunt. We got, you know, we got turkeys on it. We got some whitetail, mule deer, you know, bears. I mean, you name it. It's got pretty much everything on it. You know, for me and family and kids playing sports, it's about three hours away. So, I can zip down there and get them out on some over-the-counter tags and not too terrible to draw mule deer tags. So, it's a good situation for us and we're around life right now. Okay. Well, you've said enough. I already know where it's at. It's a good, good, good one. You're zipping down three hours, turkey whitetail. I mean, you know, hey, whatever. I got it. I got it. I got it.

It's pinpointed.

Wyatt's really good at this, too. I know he's got some ideas, but he never says anything. That's what I like about Wyatt. He just quietly knew before I knew. Guaranteed. Well, here's the good news. I got a lot of clients just around me, so you got to get through their rances before you get to me. All right.

All right. All right. Well, we were talking, you know, earlier. There's not, you know, John was talking and, of course, John's into the photos and video and Josh here in our office does the same. And, anyway, I think they wanted to kind of talk about documenting wildlife a little bit. Yeah. I wondered, like, guys who have property, what tips do you have? Like, sometimes you're not even thinking about selling, but you can do some things. So, 10 years down the road or two years down the road, you know, when you are ready to sell or you pass away and your kids take it over and they want to sell. Like, what can you do to facilitate, you know, maybe taking some pictures or helping yourself sell your property? You know, for us, I tell you what, I tell everybody, whether you're going to sell your property right away, it's going to take 12 to 18 months. There's not a whole lot in between.

I'll consistently tell you that. And one of the reasons, you know, we fall sometimes in that 12 to 18 month category is, well, these guys, they don't have any true documentation of what the wildlife is on the property. So, it takes us some time to get out there and be able to prove it up so we can look people in the eye and say, hey, this is what's on this property. This is what you can expect. So, there's not misaligned expectations and conflict when they try to buy something. So, if you're a potential seller, I would highly recommend, you know, investing in some good trail cameras. We like Stealth Cam. We use the DS4Ks quite a bit. And, you know, there's other companies out there as well. You know, but for us, kind of getting out there and putting those cameras out there and documenting the animals, not just during the season, but kind of throughout the course of the year.

So, then it kind of paints a picture of, hey, this is, we got a resident herd, right? Or the animals are here during rifle season, but not necessarily archery. Or it's a bull factory. They're there early and they leave during archery. You know, we can tell the story, all these little things. That's what really helps us sell these ranches. So, that's what I would say. You know, you really spend the time and effort to document the wildlife as much as you can. And then we come in and complement with what we do. I wonder if there's a need for a service to come document your wildlife for you. Because, like, some guys don't know how to run cameras or don't know what they're looking at. A guy like me, come document your wildlife. Hey. There you go. This is what was killed. This is what was killed. This is what's left. There's nothing I have to say, man. I don't know.

We could increase your value of your property, Blaine. Let me come smash a two. I don't know how I compete with you guys. That's the problem, you know? Let me smash a two-hundo whitetail. So, see, Jason, I got to tell you what I tell the agents. I'm like, there's a lot more value in those animals being alive for us for the next guy to come by it than it is you shooting. I don't know. People chase dead ones. Yeah.

They like when something has been killed there, it's something about it. But, all right. You're absolutely right. Yeah, I do. So, let's see. So, John, did that kind of get you to where you wanted to be? I think so. It's just putting kind of the grain of thought in people's minds of things they should be doing, even if they're not thinking about selling right now. You know, that it could really increase the value of your property if you've got that stuff, you know, for Blaine to work with when you do want to sell. And it's using quality stuff. Because here's the thing, too. Because sometimes we'll get a seller's, hey, I love this photo. And it's, look at this, you know, it's my favorite photo of the entire ranch. We check out this mule deer or elk. The quality's so low we can't use it. Right? Because of the websites. And it's just.

So, we found ways to kind of work around that a little bit. We'll create a. So, we encourage people to reach out on our properties. Because typically, we've got more information on them that's just not online. So, we'll create a Google Drive folder or something like that. And we'll put, you know, the seller's photos in there. But they do have them. And we make these guys sign off that the animals are from the property. So, anything that we sell, if it's not notated in the listing, like saying, hey, this was shot in the area. We stand behind it. It's from that property. Yeah. If we get them from the seller, they sign affidavits. And we'll. We put it in writing, too. This is what we documented here. So, that's one thing a lot of people are skeptical on with real estate folks when they're seeing animals. You see them on multiple listings. Right? Well, yeah. And you could.

I mean, now with PhoneScope. You could, you know, turn your locations on and make sure these guys turn their locations on. And they can film or take photos through a spotter. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, you know. Date, time, and exact location. We should do a podcast on locations. Yeah. We could. Someday, you know. But a lot of guys don't even know that, you know, they don't even know their phone's automatically logging locations. Or, you know, a lot of guys do know and turn it off or whatever. But having said all that, that could help a guy like you. But then the property owner needs to know how to phone scope. So, who knows? Yeah. One of the other things I kind of wanted to ask is just the process. Let's say I'm interested in starting the process with you and trying to find a property. How does that usually go? And, you know, timeline? What does that take?

Like, what are things that you can do to make it a good process? Or, you know, some tips on that. Yeah. We're very much about relationships and not transactions. And, again, this is our DNA. This isn't just kind of lip service. Most of the time when somebody calls me, they don't really know what they're looking for. They have an idea. So, we kind of start dealing with questions. And I tell people, I say, look, whether it's our listing to somebody else's, we're going to find the right parcel. And I'll start asking, hey, is this going to be a family ranch? Is this, you know, for you specifically? Do you want to entertain that here with other folks? Do you have family members who don't want to hunt? So, there's a lifestyle component to it, like be closer to a resort. And as we start kind of painting the picture of what they're really looking for, I'll just tell them we'll go at their speed.

We'll start sending them some listings. What do you like? What do you dislike? We create a profile for the individual so we don't lose track. And start tagging these, you know, the most halves and things we don't like. And it is a process. Like I said, I'd say 80% of the time, that's pretty solid right there. Most people buy what they're not anticipating because they don't know what they don't know. So, it's an education process. We just come alongside, just start educating it. You know, a lot of people say they want to buy, in Montana's example, then we start talking about the difficulty sometimes with landowner tags. So, we end up pivoting down to Colorado or New Mexico or, you know, people ask about Utah. And, you know, there's some opportunity there, you know, with deer tags and things like that. But there's not as much opportunity.

So, a lot of times people end up kind of moving in another direction. So, really, it's getting to know the client, seeing what they, making them think by asking them questions, and then kind of catering the search based on those answers.

Yeah, I like it. Well, I want to go back to your property. So, no, no, no. I want to go back to the subject. Perfect. So, on your property, are you going to hunt your property? Or are you going to try to make it a safe haven and grow the biggest freaking turkey you can grow?

Mule deer or white deer? I don't know. You know what I mean? I mean, that's a serious question, right? Are you going to just try to shoot something that's totally maxed out and just, you're going to follow a name on, you know, something we all love to do? I wrestled with this, Jason. I did. That's funny you ask that. So, I'm making this a family place. And I had to kind of step back a little bit. And what does that look like? Smash and grab? You're going to smash and grab everything? No, but I may not be as stringent with my kids. You know, I got four years and six years until they're gone, right, out of high school. And so, I'm kind of keeping that in perspective. Personally, you know, like my oldest son, I said, we're going to be at least 160 plus this year. Okay. You've killed a couple bucks. So, I'm trying a little bit, you know. Right.

But my youngest son, you know, he hasn't shot anything yet. So, I'm not going to deprive him of that at this point. Ultimately, I would like to get there with the elk, the mule deer. I think they're going to bounce around a lot. But I'm doing some massive habitat improvement. Like, I'm making this more of a legacy piece. Wow. So, we're doing, we're going to do some thinning out, you know, some fire mitigation, which also helps kind of get some additional feed coming in. We're doing multiple water projects out there.

You know, we've got some dam rights. So, we're going to do a little bit of irrigation. Not a food plot. It's normal agricultural practice. But we're going to have some.

Right. We're going to, right. We'll have some fields and things out there to kind of track some wildlife. Yeah. So, it's going to be a fun place. It's beautiful, too. So, it's, I kind of took that into consideration. If I wanted just a hunting place, that all it was was hunting, there's probably some other things I would look at. But for me, that's checked a lot of boxes of getting more utility to come down there in the springtime and kind of go look for sheds and hang out, shoot turkeys. Even in the summertime, it's a beautiful property. So, I made it more of a multi-use property than specifically hunting. Yeah. Well, you'll know if something has some special genetics and maybe old Charlie's off the list. You know what I mean? And not on the hit list or something just because you're saving. Oh. Who knows? Oh, for sure. You know, and it's really a 180-plus area where we're at. Yeah.

So, it's, I'll have the kids stump a couple. Then I'm going to, I'll get a little more serious about management for sure. Tell me, I just had one quick question about some of these properties I hear, like, if you've got sage grouse on property, like, you've got a little bit of a gold mine on, in some respects. Is that, what's, is that a thing? Yeah.

It depends on the state. Like, Gunnison, Colorado. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you can put it in a conservation easement. And we don't have an affiliation with this group. But I'd tell you, every group's a little bit different. You know, it's Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation or Nature Conservancy, guys like that. People we don't like to work with, people we do that are more pro-hunter. Sure. But the guys that we found that we really like and some of their partners are Cattlemen's Association. They're very pro-landowner versus just the land, right? If that makes sense. They try to work with you. And we like seeing those. If we're going to deal with a property that's got a conservation easement on it, we like seeing that. And really, not every state's worth doing a conservation easement in. I'll be perfectly honest with you. Colorado's are the best in the country.

They changed the rules last June to where you can get potentially up to 90% of the diminished value back in the form of state tax credits that you could sell as a non-resident for about 87 cents on the dollar. A lot of people know this, including my competition. So I just aired it out there a little bit. But we've used that to take people who say we're in a certain price point and said, look, we could expand your purchasing power by doing this conservation easement by a multiple of X. So we've taken them whether it's, you know, I'll just say 300,000. That's not the number, but 300,000 to 500,000 or 3 million to 5 million is more realistic.

And that's been a great tool for us. And then they're conserving the property. And then if it's done properly, guys, not to lose you in all this, but if it's taxed agriculturally at the time that you do it, it'll maintain its tax status in perpetuity. No kidding. So what's nice about that is, you know, you need to be taxed, taxed, you know, agriculturally to get landowner tax. But say you really do want to maximize this for wildlife. In some areas, it's not as conducive having cattle on your property. Some it helps, some it doesn't. It's not how dry it is and things like that. But if you don't want to have cattle out there and you got it in a conservation easement and it was an X status at the time of it, you're going to maintain your X status in perpetuity where you don't have to run cattle out there.

Well, all I'm hearing is if you have the right agent, you're going to save millions or make millions. And if you don't, you're not. Similar to the right accountant, but you don't want to go to jail. No, no, no, no. No. And you don't want to let Jason know where it is. He's going to shoot all your big ears. Yeah, I don't care about the money. I don't care about the money. So, Blaine, talking about different states, which states do you specialize in? So, we sell from New Mexico all the way up to Montana, Utah, Idaho. We're licensed in the Midwest, but we don't really advertise it a whole lot. It just depends on the client. We'll go over there and do deals from Kansas, Nebraska, stuff like that. But we don't want to be spread so thin. We really like to focus on the western states. And, yeah, that's kind of where we're at right now.

You specialize, you know, personally in hunting, fishing type stuff. I'm guessing that's the type of agents that you are hiring as well that have the same knowledge that you do. That's our niche. That's your niche. There's got to be a strong hunting, you know, fishing component to it. We won't mess with it. Yeah. Unless it's relationship. Every once in a while you do a deal for relationship, right? But other than that, that's all we really want to be. We're not trying to be all things to everyone. And once we finally kind of own that, our business flourished. Yeah. Something you're passionate about. It's a leap of faith. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and everybody's got the same common denominator, whether you make $50,000 a year or, you know, $50 million. Everybody loves hunting and you're kind of into it. Mostly good people. You know, they really are.

So I feel fortunate to deal with hunters and fishermen for sure. Well, it's way more interesting to sell hunting property than, say, you know, a hundredplex apartment. You know what I mean? Or whatever. So for you personally. And so where your love is, you know, you're going to do better because you're more into it and you're trying to find that next awesome property or 15 more properties or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, for sure. So how do our listeners get a hold of you, Aaron? And what's the best way to go about that if they're interested in talking about properties or getting the process started? Yeah. I mean, you can feel free to, you know, just look us up on the website and call us on our 800 number or you can reach out to me directly on my cell phone. Yeah. Yeah. It's 970-596-6089. 596-6089. Yeah. I'm not a diva. I'll take phone calls.

Jeez. Is that even politically correct nowadays? Who knows? You know, I grew up in the South. I'm not a TV. What are your pronouns? What are your pronouns, Blaine? I didn't do very well in English. I didn't know what a pronoun is. Me neither. I'm at the University of Alabama. I can't even, you know, spell that.

All right. And it's sjsportingproperties.com? Yes, sir. Yeah. Right on. Hey, so do you have any special hunts you got lined up for this fall? Other than your personal piece now? Well, yeah. I'm trying to wrap up the Super Slam. Oh, no kidding. What do you got? Sick of black-tailed deer. I've been sitting on this for about three years. Yeah. And I'm taking the family up. We're going to go do a boat-based hunt. I've got my wife and my two boys and kind of want to finish it all out together. Seems like this is where a client came in. We talked about this last time. Yeah. Somebody you knew or whatever, just a relationship you had up there? Well, no. I had a client. That's my backup. He wanted me to go with him. But I didn't want to just go by myself with him. I really wanted to make it more of a family deal. And just, you know, let's face it.

You know, when you do something like this, there's some sacrifice in it. And early on, you know, my family, I was away a lot. So there's some sacrifice there. And I was like, I would rather finish this together than just go check a box. So I intentionally pulled back and waited three years for my kids to kind of get a little bit older so they can go with me and go up there and hunt. And hopefully we all harvest black-tailed deer and kind of commemorate the moment together. That's awesome. That's pretty fun. Take some bear spray. Yeah. Well, I'm taking my kids. I love them, but they're going to be between me and the bear.

Tell me they're faster than me. We'll see.

No, you know, so we got that. I'm hunting out east again, mule deer. I got the archery mule deer tag. I'm going to go hunt over here with Bruce again in Unit 20. Yeah. See if I can go smash a big bull. Yeah. And then, yeah, just taking the kids down to our ranch, kind of getting them out more. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, you got a lot going on.

Well, right on. Sounds good. Anything else, guys, that you can think of? No, I think I asked all my questions. You did? Yeah. All of them? Yeah, all of them. All right. We even got them. You know where to reach me. You know where to reach me, you know, if you need a call. Yeah, so it's, let's see, 970-596-6089, sjsportingproperties.com. Blaine St. James, the best in the business. And he's always talking dollars and cents and good investments. And I just care about what's on the property. Yeah. Well, we'll show you. We'll document it. All right, Blaine. Well, we sure appreciate you. All right, gentlemen. Good luck this season. Look forward to seeing how you do. You bet. Wishing you the best. You bet. Appreciate it. Well, there you have it. That's awesome. There's something. Yeah. There's something to being an agent like that and knowing all the different angles.

He's dealing with the financial angles, the tag angles, all the genetics. Yeah, and you spend more than five minutes around him. You know, the dude is smart. Smart guy. So that's what you want when you got someone looking for you. Jeez. How do you get him on retainer? You know what I mean? I think that's kind of what the process is like. You start the conversation. Yeah. He's on retainer looking for you. Yeah. So, yeah. He's into it. You can tell he's into it. So, super good friend of ours. Awesome guy. Don't hesitate to reach out to him if you're considering selling or if you're considering buying. That seems like a seller's market for a minute. But, like you said, things are changing fast. So, anyway. All right. Well, guys, what should we do here, Josh? Josh, it looks like you got more question and answer type stuff keyed up and ready.

Yeah, we've got a few more questions to get through. Do you guys feel like you can do some? I know why it can. Yeah. Ready.

We'll see. There's a few. We may get through them all in this one. Or if not, we'll have to do some more. All right. Well, let's get going. Yeah. Let's start us off. Question reader guy. Okay. Ryan Bingham wrote us. Hi, guys. In the high country during the summer and early fall, is it possible that deer can get all the moisture they need from the morning dew on the leaves and the vegetation rather than springs, seeps, creeks, etc.? It just seems like some bucks live in areas nowhere near water that time of year, and I've wondered it for years. Love the podcast, guys. Dang. Josh, take it. I'd say yes. I mean, I know I've, it's funny. I remember some deer that I've hunted in the past that I'm thinking, I don't know. I wish I would have spent more time just watching them and their patterns. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out where they were watering for some reason.

It was, felt like it was a strong component to me to figure out where they were watering. And I felt like it actually took me away from what that deer was doing and caused me not to kill some deer. Because I was more worried about where's that deer watering than he's been right here on this ridge. And, well, where's he going from that ridge? Well, it doesn't really matter. He's on that ridge every time I see him. So don't worry where he's going. He's on that ridge. Where's Ol' Lump Lump going? Have you ever figured that out? Where's he going? No, I don't know.

Because he hit water twice that I know of in three weeks. And so do you think he's getting, do you think Ol' Lump Lump's getting water? I don't know. I don't care if it's the desert either. I mean, there's deer that are living in the desert, you know, in the pinion juniper or whatever. This time of year especially, I mean, mud puddles, things like that. They can walk, they can drink and, you know, while they're feeding. Or I think a lot of times vegetation itself has enough moisture in it that they don't have to go physically go to water. There's some animals that do, you know, I think like an elk, they're big enough. Some of those, they tend to go to water. Or, you know, Devin and I were talking about it the other day with some of those bulls in like Arizona and stuff. They just, sometimes they just do.

But I think a deer, especially in the high country in that they just, there is, there's enough moisture. And they don't have to necessarily go to water to survive. So. Can't imagine Devin talking about elk in Arizona. Why would I do that? I don't know. We were just talking about how hot it is down there. And how we could be thirsty if you were an elk. All right. So. We're hoping it gets hotter, right? Yeah. Right. Well, it's just weird for me to think because I hike into some of these places and I'm feeling like I need three liters. Yeah. You know, and to think they're living there and just don't need as much water. Yeah. Well, I was in the high country last weekend and it didn't dry out until like two. Yeah. Right about when it started raining again. It was, it was wet everywhere all day. Yeah. Some of those little aspen leaves had 10 drops per inch of aspen leaf, you know.

Boy, if they're hammering some of that stuff, they're getting a lot of moisture just from feeding. Wyatt, you want to chime in? Yeah, I would agree with that. I've been on a couple of those high country hunts where, shoot, my legs have been soaking wet walking through that mountain cabbage and stuff early in the morning. And then I, you know, even there's a place out here in the Southwest Desert where there's deer in sand type country and nobody knows where they water. Like nobody knows. Like relatives, nobody knows. And it's like, do they really not water? And I think there are animals that learn how to exist without watering. But having said that, I also know another guy that hits it really hard that comes up with waters all in and around where I'm running cameras on waters.

Just little, there's little seeps in places that aren't on apps, that aren't known, that more than you think, more than you think. And then, and so is that going on? Is that occurring? And then I'm also dealing with, you know, sand pots, you know, sandstone and stuff. And I learned a lot. I, you know, I learned a lot from Sarge. We tracked and tracked and tracked. And we tracked him with Jeff and I and others, a combination we figured of 40 miles. And in, in a matter of just a few days, and he took us and he took us to all the dry ponds looking for water. And he finally ended up at a sand pot where there's polywogs. And polywogs, that's telling me that there's water there a lot. You know what I mean? And it was a dry year. And so while we're going along to each dry lake bed and sand pot, you mark them because a lot of years there is water there, right?

And so he taught us a lot by tracking. And, and, but he was looking for water. But then there's other times when we swear that there's, there's deer that don't water. You know, they just don't water. And then, and then there's other guys that are running cameras like up in the high country of Wyoming on water. And sometimes just maybe you get them in a high frequency area. Maybe they're, it's a social thing, right? They, they just, they just water out of ease. It's easy. We'll go over here and drink or whatever. But then, well, they need it. You know what I mean? They get it all at once. Yeah. I think it would probably surprise you too how far some of these deer will travel for water. Oh. Between water and feeding areas and such. And it would probably surprise you. We killed a buck in Nevada. We, we had him on water, ran, running trail cameras during the season. And it was legal.

And he watered. And then we tracked him. And we went clear up, clear up. And it was five, five and a half miles. And we smashed him. Like, you know, and that was one night. He watered. Yeah. And before he bedded. Like, you know, and then, and he would only water like once every, once a week. And so we're like, hey, he came in. We have to track him. We don't have a choice right now. We know this track is his. You know what I mean? And so, anyway. I don't know what that teaches anybody. But just, I guess they, what are we saying? They don't have to water. They do sometimes think they water out of convenience. Or, or maybe it's just, you know how like people, people that come from Mexico or southern Arizona feels like they don't have to water very much. When they come up here, right? But, but John's needing three liters up on the top of the mountain. Yeah. You know what I mean?

My dad's like that. He never drinks water. I'll be three bottles down. He's like, but I think people acclimatize. I think you get used to something. You know what I mean? And I could see where a deer once a week, once every 10, 15 days or something, probably goes and has a significant, you know, when they do drink, they're going to drink quite a bit. And then throughout the course of the next week or whatever, they'll get whatever moisture just to kind of keep up a little bit. And, you know, they can get that from vegetation, but they may only have to go to an actual water to drink. So many days I've seen that as well. Yeah. Yeah. So. And like on your desert sheep hunt in Utah, it was just surprising how many like little mud puddles we're drinking out of or filtering it. But, you know, they're just disgusting. Sucking off a rock.

And I feel like the bigger deer prefer little weird things like that, little puddles. Yeah. Bottom of the canyon, you'll see where water will run and fill. And it'll only be there for three or four days, but it's just crushed. And they don't hit any other water. Mm-hmm. I love finding those little secrets. There's a couple times when I was like, oh, this is freaking money. Five days later, it's bone dry. But while it was there. Or like years later. Like I've got a couple of waters still in my mind that were just unbelievable and had giants. And then there hasn't been water there for 10 years. Yeah. You know what I mean? With all this drought and waters come and go and change, you know? So interesting stuff. Maybe the moral of the story or what the question is getting to is maybe sometimes we focus on water more than we should.

I feel like it's the first thing you do when you pull up on it. Where's the water? High traffic areas. To me, it's high traffic areas. It's like where are they going to be social? What are they going to – the high traffic areas. And then, you know. But that's probably to a fault like you guys are saying. These big deer don't get seen. They don't get camera'd because they have – they don't like to hang with, you know, others. You know what I mean? They get ornery and cantankerous. Utah deer used to get a lot of moisture from apples. So, you know. They ate a lot of applesauce throughout their day. I don't even know what water is. Yeah, they didn't have to go. Wyatt drinks so much water, he probably loves apples too.

I was thinking about Wyatt. Wyatt drinks more water than anybody I know. He would be one of those that would drink a lot of water. Yeah. If he was a deer, he would drink – He'd get me on the pond probably. Get him on the lake. Wouldn't have made it past a yearling.

And I don't drink any water. Ever. We can find you at Maverick in the energy drink section. Probably so. Probably so. Just make sure the fridge runs out. You know where he's going to be. Straight to Maverick. And it's an emergency too. Come in. Where's the whites? There's no whites. Go to Maverick. Come in in hot. Yeah. I've tried to talk about this less because they're not good for us, and I want the young folks to not drink them as much. But there's nothing like a twist-top white. Because a twist-top, you can say – and it's, hey, have you ever known a drink that's good warm? Diet Coke's not. I drink it first, third, and throw it away. White Monster is pretty dang good warm. Whites are good warm. They're good cold. They're good everywhere. Isn't the twist-top like 32 ounces or something? No, I don't know what it is. Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. It's huge. One a day.

And maybe a little small white on the end. Well, you know, if you're under 25, I guess it, you know, stunts your brain development.

It's done a lot of things. It's worse competition for us. Dumb down these little kids. Oh, goodness.

All right. So Wyatt's a heavy drinker. I'm a light drinker. I'm a desert buck. Wyatt's going to be on the top in the green. I only go to specific water. It's got to be cool, running water. Oh, no doubt. Nestle only. I'm not drinking no polywog. Wyatt is – yeah, Devin is not watering after cattle have been there. No. He's not – We better move on. So far we got one question. One question in 15 minutes. Yeah. We got to – We're crushing it. This one's for Wyatt. Here's the next question. This could also be for Wyatt. It contains a word he doesn't like. It says, what type – this comes from Eric Miranda – what type of boots do each of you run and why? Oh, Wyatt doesn't like the word run.

What? Wyatt – That's the word you were going after? Yeah. The other day you did mention that you don't run. Why would you run? I'm with Wyatt. The specific statement was, if you see me running, there is something desperately wrong. You should run too, probably. I mean – I would rather do the Stairmaster. There's some scenarios I guess you probably could run, but just for fun is not one that jumped into my mind. I ran after a deer in Mexico, and it was good. I mean, you know, but rarely do you have to really run. That's a scenario when it's okay, probably. Right. Just to wake up in the morning and jump out there on the street and just go. I used to do it when I was – Try not to get hit. I used to do it when I was a little kid, and I just felt like I was really doing something. Nowadays, go run a block or two. See what you think. Yeah. It's not worth it. Kudos to those of you who do. True.

But for boots, on the earlier season hunts, I've been using the UA Hover boot. Yeah. And then kind of as the season goes on or maybe a little bit colder to get a little moisture on the ground, I switch over to Kinetrack. Oh, okay. Like it. A little bit more heavy-duty and rigid boot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the same. Yep. Kind of depends on what terrain you're in, too. Yeah. I wear Kinetracks if it's super steep, rocky, or if you're packing weight, packing something like that. Yeah, that's a good point, too. Yeah. I think it's good to have several different pairs of boots, you know, something more that's a little even stiffer, like a mountaineering-type boot. If you're going to be doing some steep stuff or something or packing something out, it's got a lot of support as compared to if you're just cruising along, checking cameras. They're not in very steep country.

Like I say, that hover boot is really good for something like that. Really flexible and light, and you can really cover some ground that way. Especially if it's early season archery in the desert, like we do a lot, it's hard to beat a really light boot. Yeah. That's what I like about those hovers. They're super light. Yeah, super light. Probably run a little bit better in one of those than you can attract, too. Who's going to find out? All right. Devin, he's the fastest, I'm sure. Devin. Devin and doing the Tough Mudder. You know, with those trail running shoes, I bow hunt in them. Yeah. Like, they're just so light and quiet. I like a tennis shoe. Toe shoe. Yeah. Tennis shoe, whatever. Yeah. Yep. All right. Let's move along. Okay. Tim Fidler asks us, with the cost of hunts rising, where or what do you see the best value hunts available? Okay. Tim, he's a good dude. He sent us water. Yeah.

He sent us water. He met us at the expo. Super good guy. And he actually does some serious hunting. So, well, Devin, you want to jump into this? Sure. I think anything you can draw is going to significantly help, for one. Yeah.

Man. People, we send out emails, and some of those are some screaming deals. They really are. Yeah. And even above that, if you call me, call us, and we have a call list. We can call you before those hunts even go to an email. So, keep that in mind. Yeah. I think a lot of guys. If you have time and can leave any day, if something happens, there's stuff. I just got, I've got openings today. You kind of forget. Every day, there's something. Wait for the emails, but you don't know if you've got something specific. Don't be afraid to call in or email Devin at EpicOutdoors.com. But Devin is kind of the point man to these hunts with guaranteed tags. And, of course, Wyatt and I and Josh and Adam and everybody, John, help facilitate that. But somebody's got to compile the data, and Devin's that guy and really does a great job at keeping track of what's available.

We had that elk hunt come in, Devin. We were talking about it today with 350-plus bulls. I had another one for deer. Group of four dropped out today. Third season, private land. Like, there's good stuff all the time. You just never know. And then one day, we're like, man, we don't have anything good. And the next day, it's like, holy cow. You know what I mean? Things happen. Then people break ankles, toes, whatever, can't go. And the more specific thing you're looking for and budget and size, everything, the more specific, the better. Because I can say I know exactly who's going to want this tag or this hunt. But, yeah, going back to the value, anything you can draw. Like, I think the Wyoming general, if you have a couple points, it's a great value. There's some awesome hunts and big bulls. Yeah. And I think that, like, we've got a lot of younger listeners specifically to the podcast.

But that's, if you don't know what we do, that's where we can help you is you're applying and hunting potentially in your home state. You should be gaining points even when you're young. Even if you're doing points only, just to stack those up for when you're making a little bit more money and you can afford it. Well, if you don't have the points, then it's going to cost you thousands of dollars more to go. Yeah. And the only way you can get points is time. Most of the time it's about double. Yeah. Yeah, I just can't tell you how many times I've been grateful that I've gained a few points in whatever obscure state it is just to have the opportunity to go. Just to, I have the option to say no or yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. Where otherwise you don't or to buy your way in is quite a price tag. And it doesn't even take a lot.

Like Colorado last year, when I first applied for Colorado, I had no plan. I got three points, something. I caught my eye. Boom. Yeah. Awesome archery elk hunt. You just never know. You just never know. And that's the nice thing. If you do join our membership, you can just call us. Talk to one of the guys here and say, this is what I'm doing. This is what state I'm from. What else should I be doing? You know, this is my budget. I can't really afford, you know, to buy high-end hunts right now or whatever your case is. And we can specifically say, okay, what about New Mexico? What are you doing here? You should be adding at least these other three states. Something like that. I like it. Some of these hunts, you've got to plan way in advance, you know, and you're kind of, I don't know if you call it a payment program or whatever.

You pay a deposit, and then you kind of work on it and just know that it's coming up. And it kind of offsets a, you know, a $20,000 or $30,000 bill if it's brown bear or sheep or something like that, you know. And then there's other hunts that you just, you know. Wyatt, you've had a few things on the bucket list, and then, you know, it's more of an opportunity. If a great whitetail hunt comes along, great, you're in. And if it's a caribou, okay, let's do it, you know. And so I think guys that have an open schedule that are willing to accept something that comes along, right, that's an opportunity. It's not like if I have to do caribou this year, well, you're going to have to pay for it. You know, whatever. You just book it and go. So, but then, but if you're willing to wait a little bit, take the hunt that comes along.

Yeah, and along those lines, cancellations aren't as common as they used to be. They're not maybe true cancellations, but there is some discounted stuff because of the time frame or whatever. But I wouldn't say wait for the perfect $10,000 doll sheep because it's probably not ever going to happen. Right, yeah. Right. Yeah, I think those days and prices are gone. Yeah. Yeah. Those specific. But I mean, like, just like you're hunting whitetail this year and it's just because it worked out. Yes. Right? It was the right hunt with the right friends, the right outfit. Things just kind of worked out and seemed to work into your schedule. But it wasn't like 2022 is your whitetail year. Yes. No. You know what I mean? It could have been a number of things. Yes. It could have been a muskox or whatever, right? Yeah. Just kind of kept an open schedule and saw what kind of fell in there.

I'm still looking for a few things. Yeah. Like what? Trying to fill it up. Well, Colorado tag for one. Speaking of that, though, I think probably one of the best, whether it's a value or not, they're hard to get. But we talked about it yesterday. There was a tag that got off the turn back list yesterday and was like, hey, that saved me three grand. Yeah. And I got it for $400. It did. You know? Yeah. It did. So that's something to look at, especially if you can't afford a landowner tag, something like that, really work these turn back lists and, you know, second draws, things like that to where it's maybe not taking points and you're either snagging a tag that's going to cost you 10 grand or a tag that's going to take you 16 years to draw. You know, that's a great value. And that list gets refreshed each week, right? Yeah. Yeah.

So, I mean, we got, Wyatt, you're going to have an opportunity once a week for the next couple of months. Something's going to give. And there was no special, like, there's no special formula to work in these turn back systems. I guess if we're onto the turn back system for just a quick minute, guys are always wondering if there's a special formula to that. And there's not really. It's like, we got on there and, I mean, you do have to type fast, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, sometimes if you fat finger something, it'll probably cost you a tag. So you want to be smooth on the keyboard. Get familiar with the system. Like, even if you're not, if there's something that's on that list that's not you really want, still go in there and look around and get a feel for how it is versus going your first time when the tag you want is there. Yeah.

And you may have to, you know, maybe you want a 44 third, but maybe by the end, if you just want to go hunt, you're going to have to take a 34 second, you know, and just go hunt. You know, you may have to compromise and say, okay, that's not my top choice, but you still get to go hunt and that's better than sitting home. Wyatt, there was a, like the Idaho tags, the general elk tags and deer tags that came out. Like, there was a ton of those. There was. Yeah. Yeah. In the last, what, two runs of them, there's been quite a few. There's another one that goes on, I guess, tomorrow. And it's not hard to get them, right? Like we, I mean, yeah, they put you in a queue, but like. Yeah, I guess it depends on, on the queue, I guess. We're just kind of, they randomly assign you a number and then that's when you get to go in and see what's available. So there is a little bit of randomness to it.

Yeah. But if you've got a low number, you probably have a pretty good chance of getting a tag. Yeah. And so, and there was hundreds and hundreds of tags. Yeah. There was, I think like 150 this last run. I think there's well over, what, two, 300 this last time we were looking at it. So. A lot of tags. Anyway, things you can do. All right. Just, I know that's a little off subject on the particular question. Question reader guy. Glenn Landris. One tag, any species, any weapon, any state slash provenance. What would it be for each of you? Who's going to answer for Adam? Geez.

Arizona statewide tag, maybe? Mule deer? Is that in there? Oh, boy. Yeah. Super raffle. Wyatt's going for the gold right there. Yeah, just go big. So, all right. Well. Were you thinking antelope, Jason? I don't know. No. I just saw your wheels turning. I don't know. Just kidding. I do need a. Some gov tag. I do need a truck. I do need a good truck chaser. But, anyway. No, I do. Go ahead. It'd have to be Arizona strip deer rifle. All right. All right. I like it. Mine would be Montana sheep. Rocky. Because. It's a good one. I just don't know if I'm ever going to draw Rocky. I started on desert sheep in Utah. That's a hard one. Rocky's a hard. Yeah, that's hard. What a bottleneck. Yeah, what a bottleneck. Okay. All right. Josh? I.

Kind of along John's lines, I feel like a desert sheep tag somewhere. You know? In Arizona, Nevada, something. A desert. I don't know. I feel like I really need to kill a desert sheep in my life. And I want a big one. So, that'd probably be it. Okay. All right. I like it. I'm in if you get it. I'm in. Wyatt? I went off with the Arizona statewide tag there. I mean, that's it. You want me to get more realistic? Yeah. Or what? I thought you were going to say, I told you I want Colorado. I told you I want a Colorado second season tag. Crossed a big one off my bucket list a few years ago with that moose. I'm kind of thinking brown bear probably would be something I'd be really interested in right now.

Alaska. I quenched that one. I haven't even killed one. I went a couple times. I was like, nah. That's enough. No. All right, Jason. What about you? You guys are going to laugh. But what if I said elk? Yeah. Laugh. I don't know. I'm telling you. The elk are so good here in Utah this year. I'd probably like, you know, like right now, this moment, right now, I'd be taking an elk tag. I'd give back all the deer tags I have. Shocking. Oh, my gosh. So now they want to know. But it's an opportunity. It is an opportunity. Yeah, it says Utah. State and unit. State and unit. Yeah, follow up. Which state? What unit? Area. What season? Utah. Archery probably because these bulls are being found right now. So probably do archery in Poncego. Oh. Fish Lake. Yeah, something like that. Ochers. But anyway, so there you have it. Utah elk archery. I don't know. You know, I like these big deer.

I'd take a, you know, Arizona. Arizona. Raffle tag? Yeah.

Like a 12B late. I didn't know those. 12B late that I killed my big deer on. I want to do that again. I want that whole experience again. I know I'd go out there and probably wouldn't even see a 200. And that's the way that country goes out there. But I want that experience again. So that'd probably be my number one. But for this year, this moment in time, this day, just, you know, the elk, it's hard to, we wouldn't have predicted the elk are as good as they are. Right? Let's just be honest, right? No. The elk are pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, as good as they've been in a long time. And so who would have predicted that? Nobody. And so, you know, although it was a decent year, we were all, yeah, it's going to be a good, solid year. Or it's as good as we've seen in many, many years. And so, hey, I guess a little bit of an opportunity to see, you know, if it's a great elk year,

hunt elk, if it's a great deer, you're hunting deer. But I love the big deer, obviously. Everybody knows what it's like. All right. All right. Okay. Moving on. All right. Let's see. Andrew Cassano asks, does Epic anticipate hiring any new consultants or other employees anytime in the relatively near future? Any of you guys going to quit soon?

No. I'm here. Sign a five-year non-compete?

Oh, goodness.

I guess you never know. But anybody, if you, anybody out there has amazing programming experience, you know, we have a really good programmer. He's a super good dude and one of our best friends. But you could have a couple of those kind of guys. Yeah. There's just enough going on. You know, I think that we'd take an in-house guy that would do along those lines. Don't you think, John? Maybe? Yeah. The digital stuff. Like, we can all, there's always more work. Always more work. Yeah. And we're always looking to expand a little bit. But, yeah. No. I mean, you can send your, you know, a resume in. John at EpicOutdoors.com or Jason at EpicOutdoors.com. But having said that, we do have a great team here. And, you know, one thing about a business, you don't want to mess up the mojo. You know what I mean? You just, there's a unique dynamic that goes on in a tight-knit office.

And especially one where, you know, Wyatt's dealing with a client. And then Devin ends up dealing with the same client on a different aspect. And I may end up with him. And have the open lines of communication where we're all really good friends. We're a tight-knit group. And we all want what's best for the client. And it's not, there's no office weirdness, right? And so, that happens in offices. That happens at times. Yeah, I was just thinking the other day how fortunate we are. The team just gels together really well. Josh went right down the Dirty Mind track. No, I'm good. I'm good. We're good. Devin was there with me, but we're good. Let's go. Let's keep going. I didn't say anything. I don't even know where you went. I don't even know where you went. So, keep going. Keep going. Sometimes Wyatt bullies us. That's all I say. Wyatt does bully. I'm just kidding. It's pretty good.

Now you got me lost on where we're at in this deal. Yeah, let us know. Okay, let's hear the next question. Always looking for good people. Yeah. How about that? The next question comes for Tanner Stanford. Not sure what he's talking about here. Straight or angle? I think it's spotting scope related. He's asking straight or angle, pros and cons. This rabbit hole. Well, the old guys. Arr. The old guys like straight. The young guys like angled. Hey, I bought an angled scope. How about that? How do you like it? I've never used it, and I don't know if I will. Wow. It's the Harpy. It only comes in angled, and it is the best scope out there. It is. It's the best. It's the clearest. We all tested it. We've all seen it. So it's a paperweight is what you're saying. But it's a house in the basement, and my swarrow's in my pack. Do you want to sell it? It's brand new.

But I think part of it is, you know, you kind of, whatever you're raised on, right? Yeah. Kind of what you're raised on. I think there's pros and cons enough to each of them. You've just got to use one, and you're going to have to, I guess, take some compromise with one or the other. Target acquisition with the straight. I'm looking through my binos. You don't have crooked binos, right? There's no angled binos. Yeah. You know, other than the BTX. That is definitely a subpro for those. Yeah. So you have target acquisition, and how many times do you have? Three seconds to look at an hour. Yeah. Five seconds. But having said it, with angled, you're closer to the ground. If you're on a tripod, you don't have the wind movement, things like that. With straight on a window mount, you're in a better spot, generally speaking. Angled's a little bit tougher.

Which I think just buy a longer tripod. Anyway. Taller tripod. Taller tripod. And then, yeah, good point, John. And then, you know, but there's, you know, it's nice, the neck fatigue and things like that, that, you know, people tend to like the angled for things like that. Sometimes sitting on something for hours. Sometimes all day, you know. You mean angled's better? You're just sitting there nonstop. Yeah. Angled's better? For me, I just come from that. Your head's more in a downward position than kicked up, I feel like. I don't find myself adjusting my tripod as much with an angled spotting scope as you do with straight. So what's your personal, what do you use? I use angled. You do? Yep. Okay. Josh? Angled. I actually have a little teeny, you guys have seen that little teeny straight spotting scope. I carry it in the car with me every day. I'll go over the mountain.

But it goes in my truck, too. A literal car. It's a good gas mileage car. But it's like an 11 to 33 by 50 or whatever, but it works great for just throwing on the window really quick. Even hung. Even angled. I have it. Angled on the. No, it's straight. Oh, it's straight. It's straight. I see. But I strictly use it just out of the truck or the car or whatever. And then you have angled. But I have angled when I'm out hiking and stuff. So you're by. I'll go both ways. Both ways. Okay. You go both ways. John? I'm straight, man. All the way straight. Straight. Angled. Angled? You are? I didn't know that. Everything. Okay. Well, I've been straight for years and years. I am going to use a scope. It was the other day I was looking at an animal. And I was wishing I had the most clearest scope money could buy. Which you have. Which, well. Just in the basement. The Harpia. Just in the basement.

But it was in the basement. The other thing is it doesn't fit my pack very good. Like, you've got the long side pockets that are straight. They're made for straight. Right? That's what I've got, too. And they just fit so well. The straight? The straights, too. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we did have a guy. It's a well-known guide, sheep guide, that called me. And he bought the Swaro ATS, angled. But the old version. And it's an inexpensive, considering Swaro, inexpensive version because it's the 65 because it's lightweight. And the smallest. Shedding the weight. You know what I mean? And I know Adam's got one and keeps it because of that reason. It's just great for sheep hunting. Just lightweight. Still great glass. Just maybe not the best. But it's great for backpacking. And the weight. Shedding weight is more of a value. At a certain point, the optics are good enough.

You'd rather have less weight in your pack. You know what I mean? So, I don't know why we're on that subject. I guess I just thought that was interesting. We haven't. But generally, we're selling the modular system because it's state-of-the-art glass. But sometimes weight comes into play. And good enough is good enough, right? Yeah. So, all right. I guess with that, we just ought to mention, we've got some great inventory that we kind of stocked up. NL-12. NL-12. Docked up. On the shelf. Just for the hunts. You call. First time ever. You can ship it today. First time ever. In how long? Two years? Yeah. Three. Almost three. Two and some. Yeah. Right? I've never seen one on the shelf. It just hasn't happened yet. I'm going to say it. Finally hit the end of the waiting list. I'm going to say it, but we've had hundreds and hundreds on the back order. Like, it just is. Yeah.

We've sold hundreds. I mean, it's. So, I'm just saying. The NL-12s are next level. You have to have a pair if you don't. Or NL-10s. We actually have one pair lightly used. You know. 10 by 32. Actual 32. So, a little bit smaller objective. That we would. We always make screaming deals. Right? But anyway. Having said that, there is a demo model. And, by the way. We have a few of those, Devin. Don't we? A few little demo models hanging around. Rifle scopes and things. Would we say they were lightly fondled? Yeah. We're trying to make it appealing. I don't know if fondled is appealing. They have a seal on the box. Once you cut it. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes we peek at it. Look at the reticle. Then we put it back. Nothing's heavily used here. Never been on a rifle. Never abused. A couple vortex rifle scopes. A couple Zeiss. The Zeiss stuff. I'm telling you. This stuff's hard to get.

Some of this stuff was on back order from last September. And we're just now getting it in. Yeah. So don't mess around. It's not. You can't. This day and age. Trucks are the same way. And you can get me on a whole other tangent. But this is not the day and age of they make them every day go buy you one. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's like, what can you find? You know? Yeah. What can you find? And so if you know you're going to need something in a month or two, you might ought to call us and snag something or visit with us on what we've got coming in. So we mentioned this before, but Adam was going on a sheep hunt, needed a camera, and gave his old camera away to his daughter. And then he's like, hey, which camera should I get? Well, I'm like, dude, there's nothing available. He ended up paying double. For a used one. It's also made in 2001, right? The camera he wants and likes.

2021? One. Oh, two. No, it was. Oh, damn. 35 millimeter. No, no. I haven't used one of those in 15 years. It was a 22. It's a digital camera. Oh. But just a point and shoot that's tiny like a deck of cards. Sometimes I just take a trail cam with me. We have these cell phones with really good cameras. Sometimes I just take a trail cam and put on a 10-second delay. Yeah, there you go. That's basically what Adam's camera is. The DS4K, they actually take great photos. You could do that. Set it up. Do a self-timer. Am I right? Throw a trail camera in your pack at all times. Hey, it's illegal here in Utah. Yeah, it's not. No, no. It's in my selfie. It's in my camera. I don't have to have a selfie stick. I don't have to have another. I got this trail camera. It takes great video, too. Even an old camera is hard to get now. Hey, you could even set it up and then do the whole, you know,

taking little video clips and pictures of, you know, breaking down the animal or whatever, right? Do a time lapse. You could. All right. Anyone actually does it. I want to see the photos. A hunting-related activity, though. Oh, here we go with the game warden in the office. Officer Bowles. You know, he likes to talk like he doesn't like officers, but he is one. I think he's the mole in the office. We got the gamey side, which is their side, Wyatt, and you're and I's side. Yes. Speaking of, I saw a game warden this weekend, Penguish Lake, had his red and blues on with a truck pulled over on the beach. On the beach? Yeah. I don't know what was going on over there. The guy had a polywog or something? Yeah, there was at least probably a 19-inch cutthroat in his possession. He wasn't supposed to have something. I don't know. It was serious. Does the officer know you can two-pole now?

Yeah, I don't know. Jeez, leave the guy alone. Am I the only one that doesn't know what red and blues are? Oh, the lights. The lights. Pulled over. I was thinking, you know, I don't know, swim trunks or something. Jeez, John. John wants to go swimming. All this talk of water. You are a two- or three-liter guy. All right, keep going, question-riter guy. Here's the next question. Austin Revoir asks, when hunting a new unit, specifically western Wyoming, apparently he may or may not have a tag there, I'm assuming, how would you narrow down scouting locations if the area is large and you won't have time to scout at all? What do you look for on maps, et cetera? This will be an early September hunt that goes into October.

Wyatt, start us off. Probably the first thing I look for is glassing points. You'll cover a lot of country from the top of a mountain or the top of a hill where you can spin 360s and get a lay of the land, and then eventually you're going to look into feeding areas probably. Okay. I like it. I look for access because I'm lazy. Okay, John. I don't know about lazy. I think if you can find good access, you're making good use of time, right? Yeah. Right? I'm just joking. But, yeah, that's a big deal for me if you can't get into an area.

First thing Josh is doing, I'm going to guess, is looking at the e-bike regulations, seeing how much wattage is allowed on the trails. Is this a 750 watt or higher? I'm going to have to go on eco or sport mode. What else? Anybody? How do you narrow it down? I would say, along with what these guys said, have an idea for the scale. Sometimes you go somewhere in real life and you're like, whoa. You know what I mean? What if I got myself into? Yeah, I thought this was going to be an hour hike, and I'm not even a fourth of the way there. Like, have an idea, measure those things. Look at 3D imagery or whatever to have an idea of scale so you're not wasting time. Okay, I like it. Josh? I'd say if you have some kind of an app, see if there's any wildlife layers on it, first of all, or vegetation type layers, things like that,

if there's any kind of feed that they're going to particularly like or hitting. Tricky time about that kind of year. A lot of times deer could be stripping velvet, and a lot of times you'll see deer strip right there in September, October, and do a little bit of a movement too. So just be ready for that. You could, you know, be catching deer moving, vice versa. So, you know, just don't think, oh, we're going to go in there glassing every morning, seeing the same things. You could see different stuff every day. So I like, too, you know, we have that member experience program, you know, where we would send guys a list of members who've hunted there in the past. And that's great. If you get your maps and you call these guys and you're able to write fast, guys will spew a few areas they found, you know, good animals and whatnot, depending on the season that they hunted.

And like you guys say, the migrations, it may, there's some areas that I find sheds and the same buck in the velvet within a mile, right? And so they may not migrate much. They may rut a little bit and they might travel a little bit during the rut, but other than that they don't move a ton. And then there's some areas you're going to find, you're going to have migration. You're going to have to deal with that. And Onyx does a good job of showing those corridors in certain areas. And some areas you just know it. You know, there's Nevada units, we've all hunted them, where we know there's a movement from a north to a south or whatever down an entire mountain range. And when do they start showing up? And it used to be, like, for example, you know, over here in 22, 221, 223, like for deer, the magic day for us was like October 28th.

That's when all of a sudden it felt like overnight there was a difference. The winter range was loading up and the rutting activity and things like that. Everything was kind of getting keyed up until prior to that. They're in the middle or wandering around or just in a summer pattern, but are smart, right? Hard horned, early October, smart, thick trees. And so that may make a difference on where you hunt within units or a cluster of units.

You know, obviously burns and things. I was thinking about this for a particular tag I have. And I'm actually thinking, like, I know where there's big deer on the winter range and I'm not hunting the winter range. And so where do those big deer come from? And that's where maybe the migration patterns. I'm actually going to go reverse the migration and hunt the summer range where the start of that era was. You know what I mean? Like, and I'm going to ignore some other mountain ranges because there's not as many big deer that winter are off those other mountain ranges and I'm thinking there's something to do with either the fetal genetics on those mountain ranges versus this other mountain range, right? Just something in the back of my mind. And I'm probably overthinking it. Like, there's not a perfect migration corridor. They come from all corners of the earth at times, right?

But it's kind of in the back of my mind, you know? And then, like, the waters. Like, you know, Onyx, you guys were showing. There's layers on Onyx I don't even know exist, right? And you guys, we were looking at all those little springs. Like, we were having to bring in data from other GIS files to overlay springs. Now these little blue dots, droplets are showing up everywhere. In some areas so far. Some areas, right? Which is helpful, right? Like, we all talk about water. Wyatt especially wants to know where the lakes are. But those are helpful. Those are some helpful tips, you know? And then also we've got these layers of state wildlife management areas. And there's books on are these open to hunting or not open to hunting? And so, anyway, there's a lot of angles. I think Wyatt, kudos to Wyatt. I want to say out loud, Wyatt's taught me quite a bit about Onyx.

Wyatt has Onyx open all day long. And I think it teaches you a lot. And we're going from layer to layer from all the different aspects of it. Guzzler layers or whatever. And then also the topo versus the satellite imagery or whatever. And I feel like knowing. It's one thing to say you have Onyx. But it's another thing to know how to use Onyx. You know what I mean? And I just feel like, Devin, you're the same. Josh, you know how to use it very well. We're all, but, you know, Wyatt and I are on the non-gamey side. I don't know how I'm on the gamey side. I don't either. And I used to be on the gamey side. But anyway. And so I don't know. I just see, you know, Wyatt and I, you know, just because our offices are separated a little bit. Maybe we converse a little bit more. But I just feel like you're pretty good at using Onyx. And I think, Wyatt, you even put a guide taking antelope clients.

Not necessarily our guys. But where to start? And they smash bucks. I'm just saying. And all you did was look at Onyx. Yeah, there's a lot you can learn on Onyx if you spend the time and just kind of do it around with all the different settings and different filter. I guess they filter layers is what they call them on there. Different layers, different levels. And you can learn a lot. A lot of times when I'm consulting guys, I'm on Onyx. Yeah. You know, looking at stuff, refreshing my memory of units I've been to in the past or just different areas to kind of look or maybe check. Yeah. Very helpful. And it doesn't matter if it's Alaska. I mean, it doesn't matter where it's at. You're looking at it. You can use different mapping systems, too, because some will be more updated. Like, if you look at Google Earth in some areas, it looks like it was taken yesterday.

You could see different roads, new roads, compared to an old map. Like, I would overlay different maps. I always do that. Yeah. I'm still a paper map guy. I freaking love paper maps, right? You like to draw on things. Does anybody know? Does anybody have a guess at how many paper maps I have? I mean, filing cabinets full. I've seen them full. Maybe that could be a hunt giveaway. Thousands and thousands. Thousands and thousands. Not a hunt giveaway, but an optics giveaway. How many paper maps does Jason have? Some of those, it's gold. We'll pick one and send it to you. He's got some notes on some of those. I have some I've kept. I have notes. It's like when I was a kid, I didn't have a GPS. I'd just get lost. It's just how you learn. I'd like to think they'd be a valuable part of the estate when I'm gone, but I don't know. Your kids will burn them. They would, too.

They wouldn't give two craps. No. And they don't realize, like, I've lived and died by those. Like, fed the family with those. You know what I mean? Like, you get emotionally attached to those things. That means we're old. When they're cleaning out your basement, they're going to be cussing you. Why does dad keep these? You couldn't even wipe your butt with these. This is hard paper. It's waterproof. Yeah, exactly. You go, waterproof. This is terrible. Yeah. Oh, he probably wanted to reuse them. Yeah.

So, anyway, I do both. I have the Onyx. And it doesn't matter what mapping software. There's other softwares that are. There's actually other softwares that have some pretty cool, you know, ingenious ideas on, you know, hunting in groups and parties and sharing waypoints and things like that. You know, sharing a hunt, quote a hunt or whatever. There's a lot of pretty cool stuff out there. Digital helps. And so. Like Devitt said, too, you know, you go out there, there's a few different app options. And the mapping's different on them. Some of them, their maps are updated a little bit different in things. Especially if they're doing habitat treatments or something, you can zoom in on one and it changes. Or you show up and it's burnt. Yeah. But on your map, it looks green and lush. Yeah. So, yeah, it can work. Guy gets very frustrated when that happens. Doesn't look the way I saw it.

If it's moonscaped, yeah. Yeah, that's a problem. The wildfire layer is amazing. Yeah, it is. It is. And then how about the current conditions you guys show me? I'm like, what? Yeah, he's always wondering how we know when the storm's going to hit. Well, and I'm looking at current radar, right? Just Google current radar and click on one of them and you can see some radar activity. These guys are going into like onyx and doing current conditions and it overlays the radar on onyx units, right? Of what's currently getting rain right now. Like, I'm like, what? What's next? Devin's going to be using that next week when he goes to a particular state. And instead of precipitation, it monitors like the herds of crickets. So he can stay ahead of those. Oh, you've got the Mormon crickets. You ever had a big old cricket in your boot when you put it on? No. It's the worst. Waves of them.

Yeah, there's some problems with crickets around the country. I don't know. Not the seagulls. We should have an epic version of, you know, custom maps with onyx. Make a deal with onyx and do the epic version. We go on and add some waypoints and do some little custom something or other. Have Jason's private file on there. Yeah, that'd be cool, right? Share your account with the whole bunch of people. Of course, you know what happens? People think, yeah, he'd never put the real good stuff on here. So we're going to go to the exact opposite of all these waypoints.

But you're more than welcome to share with us. If you just tell people the truth, they never believe you anyway, right? It's true. Wyatt lives and dies by that. All right. I think to round out that question, you all know I love to pump our service. So if you have a tag that's worth driving out of state for, you'd be crazy to not spend the $150 to become a member, to talk to one of us about that specific unit and get the member experience list of that. I've got so much awesome information. I went on a hunt a couple years ago in New Mexico elk hunt, and there were two or three guys that shared unbelievable amounts of information with me. I'm talking kill photos with locations type thing on purpose. And just telling me which tanks to put cameras at. So how do we extract that out of you, pay you $150? Pay me $150. Just become a member, and you call and say, I've got a tag in New Mexico.

We're pretty good to people. Wyatt, I always make Wyatt throw up in his mouth a little bit. I can't believe how much I share. Huh, Wyatt? I've called you out a time or two for giving away the farm. I'm super nice. I am super nice. You get me on the right day, I'll give you everything. I may even jump in the truck.

One thing to go along with what John said, we actually had a member that sent us a message today. Actually, we say next time you talk on the podcast, it goes back to the member experience stuff, as well as just us. But he said, you know, I've helped out 20 different guys over the years, people calling in about some special tags. It's not just a general season tag or whatever, a special tag. And he says, you know, I've only ever heard from like one or two of those guys. I think that's something to do. If you ever talk to somebody like that, you know, maybe jot down a name, jot down a number, keep that, and touch base with them. Because he said, sometimes I don't feel like giving out quite as much anymore because guys are just like ungratefully taking it, you know. So be grateful for the information that you get and help give some feedback or let a guy know.

Or call them back and say, hey, I appreciate you. And by the way, this is how we did. And give them some more info. Right. Right. To add on to what you told me, you might also think about this area if you ever hunted again because I found this and this and this. Like people appreciate that. Or you could update his information. Like Devin said, hey, geez, we went there, but it's burned now. No way. There was such and such there, and now it's burnt. So maybe your information you're giving out is not quite as relevant anymore because something's drastically changed since you hunted at last. So that guy, you know, Dan Ryan, I appreciate that message, and he just wanted to kind of share that. Be grateful for the information that you receive from other guys and give some info back to them.

Nothing's more frustrating than giving them the farm and having them take every chicken and never call you back. You know what I mean? I ask guys that all the time, good or bad, I want to hear about it. Yeah, I want to hear back. And I mean it. I said it on the podcast before, but, like, we really mean it. Yeah. I want to hear about every 200-incher you saw. All right. Keep going. Question reader guy. All right.

Dylan Ehrlich, I think is how that's said. It says, I'm young but clearly want to play sheep where I can. Am I spinning my wheels buying points this late in the game? If not, which state should I be applying for? I'd say when it comes to sheep, just a points-only application is not a way to go. I always want to have your name in the hat. But just starting out, you're going to be a long time before you are in a max point situation. If ever. You can draw a tag using your points. But basically the best strategy, in my opinion, to draw sheep tags, having your name in as many hats as possible. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So we're doing, I mean, if you're just starting out, I mean, you know, we'd be doing Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Montana. We drew in Oregon, New Mexico. But in New Mexico, you've got to front the fees.

I mean, there's a little bit of, you know, each one of them, you've kind of got to weigh it out. Is it worth it? And if you're applying for multiple species in Nevada, yeah, it's worth it. The odds are long. If you're applying for multiple species in Utah, yeah, it's worth it. But the odds are tough. So anyway, but having said that, somebody draws, we usually talk to these people. We know the system works. We're talking to happy tag holders all the time. And so anyway, you've got to just play it. It's been a while. Well, no. I guess I drew an Arizona sheep tag here just a couple years ago. But I mean, at times we'll go through a dry spell. And, you know, we're playing the games too. I didn't have max points down there, but I did have a chunk, 22 points. And so, you know, I had a number of names in the hat. But then Oregon didn't have any point system at all for sheep.

And Adam and I both drawn there. And so, you know, random tags do come and they do happen. And people beat the odds. And you just got to be in the, you're young, but you got to have your name in the hat. Like Wyatt was saying, we all have guys in our service that are doing points only for sheep. You know, and if you absolutely can't go for 100%, you cannot go, then fine, do that. But if you would take a tag, oh, I'd take a sheep tag and make it happen if I absolutely, you know, had that opportunity. Then you should be having your name in the hat. And generally speaking, it's the same cost. With the exception like New Mexico, there's no point system. So if you couldn't go, you wouldn't apply. But having said that, like have your name in the hat, you know, have your name in the hat. You just never know when that opportunity is going to come around.

And when you're talking about 20 to 30 year, you know, process of getting at one of these tags, don't sit out. Like don't say, well, I'm not going to do it because it's not worth it. I'm behind the game. Well, guys older than you are dying all the time. You know, you're going to be at the top sometime and you're talking. It's a long time. So don't wait anymore. If you can afford it, get your points. If you can't afford it, don't. But if you can afford it, don't say, well, I'm just behind. Yep. That's right. All right. Apply, apply, apply. This question is going to lead right into it, I guess. Basically a similar thing, but does ask for some specifics. Garrett Laughlin here says, howdy, boys. For the upcoming question and answer episode, I was thinking it might be helpful to answer questions for hunters like me.

Who are only just starting to apply and have zero to one points in different states. Think y'all covered some of this in a previous podcast, but it might be helpful to touch on this episode as well. Also, on the opposite end, what would you recommend for hunters like my dad and his buddy who have 20 plus points built up in Colorado for deer? He's in his 60s now, and I'd love to see him and his buddy land a great hunt before they get too old to go out to the mountains. Thanks, Garrett, in Texas. Okay. Well, Devin, I want to put you on the spot. What was your comment about Colorado and zero points the other day? Oh, I said I'm not. I don't. I said I'm not going to do any more zero point units. Ever. I don't plan on it. And then what's your theory behind it? But you probably have no more than five or six going forward, zero to five or six. Zero to five or six. Yeah.

Because there's landowner tag opportunities, there's turnback tag opportunities, there's second draws. If you apply as a second choice, you'll still gain a point. You're still hunting. But like Jana, she had over 20 points, still didn't kill a buck. We could have been hunting her every five years, every three years. I guarantee she would have smashed a buck. And maybe a giant. Maybe a giant. Right? We've all hunted. Wyatt, you and I have hunted some amazing hunts together. Yes, we have. And low point draws. Wyatt wouldn't let me ever forget. Burned all his points. Burned them. I convinced him. Grandpa Jason come out one night and talked sense into him. We ended up drawing some useless tag. We had a good time. Looking at a lot of little deer. Hey, I'm a positive. The problem with me, I'm a positive. There could have been a big deer around any band. There was, probably.

We just didn't see it. We just didn't hit the right band at the right time. But having said all that, I am a positive thinker. And I get excited over the stupidest stuff. And then pretty soon, y'all are excited. And then we do something dumb.

Happens to the best of us.

But anyway, so I think part of this is it just depends on the zero to one point. So there's plans, right? If you're wanting to hunt region G in Wyoming or region H, maybe that's happening once every eight to ten years or five to ten years, depending on the particular region and special or regular price licenses. And then so you've got a basic plan in Wyoming. And then you've got to supplement that with a Colorado plan. And then maybe we're doing like right now you can get a general tag in Idaho, one of these turnbacks, or even get one December 1st. And I always get one of those. And I have one right now. And so there's things, right? There's things that you do. And so the zero to one point, you know, it's just starting to apply. And I have zero to one point. But there's things you do. Well, there's some states that make sense to go for the gold, right?

Go for the gold in Arizona, but hunt Colorado often, hunt Idaho general often, you know, quench your thirst on some of these other easier, you know, tags that come around that are a little more plentiful, more opportunity to get a tag. And then hold for, you know, say a Nevada. I mean, we're constantly looking at the first come first serve. It's not easy to get a tag. But we've all gotten a tag in the past. And so I'm just saying there's opportunities. But you've got to get a plan. And I think that's what we're good at is having a short-term, mid-term, long-term plan. And, you know, Garrett doesn't just need a short-term plan. He needs a short-term, mid-term, long-term. These are my long-term strategy. This is my mid-term strategy. And then this is what I'm going to do pretty regular until I get to where I have enough points to do some of these other things. What do you all say?

That's exactly how I look at it when I'm consulting or even my own goals there. Short-term, mid-term, long-term. Keep guys hunting while you're waiting for some of these phenomenal states to hunt or phenomenal states to draw. Your Arizona's, Utah's, Nevada's, states like that. But you could get lucky. There's random tags there, too. So keep your name in the hat. And you could draw there with zero to one points, too. Yep. Yep. We're not afraid to supplement our draws with landowner tags. We've all bought them, right? But, you know, so if the landowner tag comes up and it makes sense, Nevada, you can kill multiple deer. It's not like you can just draw a tag and you're done or buy one landowner tag and you're done. You could draw a tag, buy a tag, whatever. Buy five tags if you want. So it's kind of a crazy state that way. Who knows?

New Mexico's looking like it'll have a decent year for deer. You know, if a guy can draw a tag down there, it's hard to force that drawn. There's no real, you know, good landowner deer tag system down there. And so, although the elk, it's good. Good opportunities there. So, anyway, great, great opportunities. And then there's a lot of different, there's a lot of different options, a lot of different states. And each state would, and the system kind of dictates the plan, too. It's similar to Blaine St. James, what he's talking about. He knows the finance end. He knows the landowner tag end. You know, he knows every aspect of buying a piece of property. We know every aspect of making a plan. You've got the states, every state has a little bit different system and nuances and turnbacks and other opportunities and then landowner tags or whatever.

And then some states are just flat, tough to draw and have giants. And so that might play into your plans. So, what else? I was just looking at the second part of his question. What would we recommend for hunters like my dad and his buddy who have 20 plus? I feel like I hear about these situations often. Well, it's because they stress. You know, I've got 20 years. Well, you know, the way I looked at some of that stuff is I have 20 years in, but those 20 years I didn't just, I blindly put in for those points, right? Like, I didn't think about it. You didn't just do it. But you didn't, if that was the only thing I was doing and I think about that point every single year, heaven forbid, that guy's going to have a bad hunt because he's just, right? That's the way the stars align. It's so tough. It's like they teach you when you're like investing in the stock market.

They say, don't become emotionally attached to one thing. And I feel like in the hunting, a guy will say, okay, this is the unit I want. And it's like, man, you're not going to catch it. You're going to, you could chase it forever and you're not going to catch it. By the way, that. Because he's so emotionally, I'm going to hunt there. And maybe that unit kind of came and went with quality. Exactly. And it happens. It does. You can't, you got to kind of have an open mind. That's what I tell guys. It happens. If you, if you go for an 18 point unit, go do it. If you're ready to go, go. Well, I think the biggest, the biggest thing for, for guys like that is they're just, they're trying to make the most value out of that 20 points. If you have an exact 20 points, they're applying for units that take 20 or 21.

And then they don't account for point creep and they don't understand why they didn't get drawn. And I haven't been able to draw for three years. And I tell a guy, I had a guy sliding this out and I'm like, you tell me you want to go this year. You let me pick the unit and the season and I will get you a tag. Exactly. But they're too scared to get a tag. Don't be scared to get a tag. Don't be scared to get a tag. Get it over with and go hunt a couple more times before it's over. You know what I mean? I know just last night I was talking to a guy that had done this, saved a lot of points, you know, and then went and hunted a unit last year and he had a great hunt in the end. But, you know, basically he said, my points, your points don't owe you anything. Yeah. You know, they don't owe you anything. And so you still have to go hunt.

And he said, I wish I would have went and hunted two or three times with those over the last 20 something years than I did in once. Because I've actually killed better bucks on lesser units than I did on my 20 plus unit. And so I think that's just it. And that's easy for me to say I don't have 20 points in Colorado. So it's easier probably for me to say. But I guess that's my thing. Just your points don't owe you anything. Take your dad. Pick a unit. There's a lot of great units where you can go over there and have not a lot of guys hunting there with you, not a lot of competition, but great deer numbers and the potential. Like I was saying, when you come around the corner for anything, you never know. Just go take your dad and go have a great hunt. Be with him. Make a memory. Whatever happens on as far as what you kill is what you kill. But just go have a great hunt that way. I like it.

And if you're afraid of losing 20 points and not having a quality experience, maybe that's when you say, hey, call Devin. See if we've got an outfitter that can help you make the most of it. And instead of being disappointed that you wasted 20 points, and even if you don't typically go outfitted or something like that, you can pay for some access or make the most out of that. Just go out on a limb. You've got to get it over with. You've got to go out on a limb. That's what I say. Of course, I do a lot of that, and I eat a lot of tags. So whatever. But I'm not scared to fail, and you've got to be scared to fail. I've said it a hundred times. You've got to – don't be scared to fail. It's okay. You know, failing isn't really failing. Just go out on a limb. Try it. It is good to have – you know, apply with – make an educated decision on where you apply.

And that's where we come in to help you. And we've got your best interests in mind. And we want you to succeed. We want – you know, if we have happy clients, we're succeeding too here at Epic Outdoors. And so we're going to give you the best knowledge and the best – you know, help you make the best educated decision possible. And this is – we live for this stuff. And we're dealing with it every single day professionally. And so, you know, run it by us. And then make your choice after we talk. And maybe don't do what Wyatt did and follow my every – my every – Word of advice. Word of advice. Because sometimes I just – I don't know. I don't have good advice. Usually could have been in the best time of my life, though, too. There. He said it. He said it. You don't know if you're not there. Yep. Okay. Are we done with the questions? I think we're done for now.

We've got a few more, but I think we'll save them for another one. We're – I told you. We're hitting an hour and 45 minutes now. Why do we talk so much? Why do you guys talk so much? But let's throw a thank you out to a few of our sponsors. We'd like to thank Triple S Polaris here in Cedar City that will service and sell you a machine, ship it to you anywhere in the lower 48. And so if you really know what they're talking about, contact them at 435-8667. 665-0100. And just they'll take care of you. We talked to Colton on the last podcast or a couple ago, and you can tell they're into customizing these machines and getting you something that's special. What does Triple S stand for? I don't know. Shoot, shovel, and shut up. I wonder if there's a little something there. There's a couple things it means.

What else does it mean? I'm not going to say. My wife will be mad at me. Okay. Let's end this podcast so I can figure this out. What else we got, John? We've got Vortex. And we also sell Vortex. So if you're looking for a value where we can get you a lot of glass for a good deal, give us a call on some Vortex. We've got some great stock on Vortex right now. So give us a call on them. And I'd also like to thank PhoneScope and PyroPuddy. We've worked with them for a lot of years. They've been a great supporter of Epic Outdoors. And so go check them out. PhoneScope.com. And their PyroPuddy stuff is on that website as well. So if you don't have an adapter for your phone already where you can get it hooked up to your spotting scope, you're missing out. Just you can get awesome, awesome footage. I think one of the new things too this year, they've got GoPro attachments and everything.

So pretty awesome. They love it. Yeah, yeah. And another one is Fierce Rifles. It's a big sponsor of the podcast in Epic Outdoors. Devin, maybe give a little spill on this. Yeah. Take it away, buddy. We ought to call those guys one of these days on the podcast. Yeah, we should. But no, one thing they're doing now since a couple years ago, they're bringing everything in-house. And we actually went there and saw the new building next to the new building. I mean, it's crazy. They're doing a lot of cool stuff. It was very impressive. But I shoot them. I've shot them a long time. They do what they're supposed to. My brother just got one. We've actually been pretty impressed with their turnaround times. Definitely, yeah. Wyatt even pulled the trigger. Yes. That was a miracle in and of itself. Wyatt's getting another one.

You get Wyatt to drop the hammer on a tag or a big purchase, you've done something. Huh, Wyatt? Yes. Carly let him have a few bills from underneath. I don't know. Between the sheets? His own bills? His own bills? I don't know. Maybe he took them. Were those your bills or her bills? They were my bills. They were under the guest bedroom mattress.

Josh is brutal. Nobody's asking him his opinion. What? You don't have to take this. There's no money under my mattress. I don't need anybody in my house. Even if you try, you won't make it up the driveway because if a kid rides his bike by, Wyatt's like, something's going on in my house. What? This morning, he's like, that freaking Chucker's back again. Look at this. Look at this. You still have Chuckers. I had a Chucker at my house this morning. And we're in a subdivision. And they're on your rooftops. Yeah. I got a picture this morning. Not even the Chuckers. Come on. Come on. The FedEx man hadn't made it from the sidewalk to his house. And he's like, you showed me. He's walking up. Wyatt's hitting me. What are you doing in my house? Why are you talking to me? He's like, I've got a package, man. Turn around. Okay, lift up your shirt. Okay, drop it on the porch. Have a nice day, sir.

So yeah, nobody's getting in Wyatt's house. Show me your ways back. Yeah, it's FedEx. It's not that bad. They're not supposed to pack weapons on the FedEx truck. Aren't they? No. How do you know these rules? I don't know. I just don't think you're supposed to. But how do they deliver a gun to your house? Well, I mean, on their person. Loaded. Loaded. Strapped. I think if I was a mailman, I'd want to be strapped. I'd have a stick with a hammer on it to get a dog attacked. Hey, in this woke environment, they're done. Speaking of that, did you guys see the video of the 80-year-old liquor store guy who shot the burglars? Yes. Phenomenal. Shotgun. The guy's like, he shot my arm off. I'm like, only I wish he would have. Hey, we could hook him up with four buck and he'd do some damage. Yeah. That guy wouldn't be going to the hospital. That made my day. I just think, what was he shooting?

I'd like to know the load he was shooting because that guy's arm could have been off. We went from fierce firearms to shootings in convenience stores. Well, the guy was a bad eight. And then did you hear he had a heart attack? Yeah, he had heart attacks. He was recovering in the hospital. Yeah, the old man that shot him afterward had a heart attack. So much adrenaline. Too much. Awesome. Oh, there's video. In California, no less. Was it in California? I didn't know. Pretty sure. I thought it was Texas. Aim more towards the center next to that. I think it was Texas. Okay. So if you want to go check out the Fierce Firearms lineup. They also sell shotguns. But go ahead. Yeah, they do. Go ahead. Fiercearms.com. Or call 435-462-0040. You shouldn't have me reading it. I'm always like dyslexic with the numbers. Oh, anyway. Don't admit fault, John. You're perfect at everything you do.

Don't let these young guys have anything on you. Oh, and then one last shout out today. The Stealth Cam. Stealthcam.com. And I spent the weekend picking up my cameras. What's left of them? What's left of them. Yeah. So if you want any models for next year, we got plenty in stock because everybody had to go pick them up. Yep. The Stealth Cam sales are a little bit slow with Nevada's and Utah's new rule. Arizona can't even run them. Yep. Kind of crazy, isn't it? If you want to buy one to put one in your pack for some trophy shots, let us know. Hey. The DS4Ks. Dude. It would probably be easier to use than one of those old cameras Adam uses. I'm telling you. You can even do a cell cam and get it to your phone in an instantaneous upload. Huh? Send it out. Throw it up on the gram.

Hey. These are good ideas. They are. Geez. I was trying to teach Adam how to have an Apple Watch and trigger your phone from the Apple Watch. Yeah. But I don't think he took it. No. That was a. It went over. Because his you still have to like crank up. Get the flash ready. Disposable. Disposable. I literally. Yeah. I love those. Have them developed in three to five days. He comes to the office and it's on this brick camera. He's like, there's my buck, you know. Look through it. Hey. I made the cover of Eastman's one year with a 35 millimeter. How about that? Awesome. Yeah. They work. They work. I wonder if they even sell. Do they even sell 35 millimeter? I don't know. You still don't use it. It's.

All right. All right. Enough bashing. Let's let's thank our listeners. It's been amazing. These question and answer podcasts have been really popular. Yeah. They wear us out. Yeah. We got. The stats have been. Well, this is why I think. So we get through five questions. Right. In an hour. And I think that's the way we do our consult. We're so thorough. We want to answer the question to its fullest and vet every angle out. And I feel like that's what we do with guys hunting schedules, their plans. We we treat it as if we're going on it. I mean, you guys. I love why. Why it lays awake at night for who knows why. I mean, it could be some guy's obscure antelope hunt or a barbary sheep and some something he didn't even book. Who knows? Somebody just mentioned it passing. And he's fretting. Wants the guy to have a good hunt. Devin, you're the same way. Like you. You want to hear.

If you don't hear back from a guy, you're like, I wonder if he had a bad hunt. I wonder if he had. No, he had a great hunt. He just hasn't unpacked his gear yet. You know what I mean? I feel like that we care. Josh, you're the same way. Me, Adam, John. I mean, we just want the best for guys. We want them to have the best experience possible. And I think we take it personal as if we're there ourself. Sometimes I worry about guys going on hunts that are, you try to tell them realistically like, man, you're 82 years old. We had a guy buy a landowner tag and you're like, Jason, he's going by himself on this particular tag. I'm like, hey, he's a bad A. I'm hoping I'm doing that. He'll be fine. But it's still like we care. We really do. I worry. And I hope the best for him. And I think that's part of not selling something that we don't feel like is a good fit.

We make we vet it out, make sure it's a good fit. And that's old school that, you know, that personal attention like that. And and customer service is like it's old school and and doesn't generate revenue left and right. And it isn't scalable. And, you know, like a digital platform only is or some of these other things. But that's what we know how to do. That's what we like doing. And we like to be a part of it. We also like to learn ourselves. And you learn, you know, we learn a lot from our members. Our members are hardcore guys. And it's their their excitement is contagious to us. If somebody has a great hunt in Wyoming antelope, I kind of get excited for a minute. Right. I'm listening. Same thing. I had a guy who's deer in New Mexico and he killed a hundred and seventeen incher. I listen to that guy. That's a rare giant in New Mexico. I listen to that guy.

He he he's going to teach me something. And it's interesting to me. Who's deer is not the top of my list. I do need another big one. But it's one of those things that you you learn. Right. You're always why you you're keeping notes and on what guys have done in the past and whatnot. And it's interesting. Those things are who make our clients who they are. They're they're hardcore dudes. Yeah. We have a lot of hardcore dudes in our service. And I think people don't realize, you know, you're talking to what would you say? Fifty to seventy guys a day or a lot, a lot, a lot of guys. So there's a lot of information that's coming both ways. Yeah. So anyway, if you're a member, you call in. You're going to benefit from that. Yeah. So we love what we do here. Check us out. Epic Outdoors dot com. You can give us a holler at four, three, five, two, six, three, zero, seven, seven.

If you're looking to buy optics, give us a holler. If you're looking to maximize your tags, you're looking for hunts, you're looking for tags. Whatever it is, let us know. We we are starting the hunts. Devin, you're taking off next week. I'm going to be taking off actually as well, doing heavy scouting. So anyway, lots going on. But there will be somebody in the office here to help you out. We're all coming and going a bit, but we're supposed to be out in the field. That's where we learn the most. And so anyway, we practice what we preach. All right, everybody. Well, we wish you the best of luck out there. If you kill a giant, call us first. We want to see it. We want to hear about it and partake in the excitement. So anyway, good luck. We wish you the best. At Epic Outdoors, we help you reach your hunting dreams, whether it's helping you to develop

a long-term application strategy or finding the perfect outfitter for your next hunt. As a member of Epic Outdoors, you'll also receive the Epic Outdoors magazine and have access to the best hunting consultants in the industry, online tools, and more. To join Epic Outdoors, visit epicoutdoors.com or call 435-263-0777.