EP 26: Becoming a More Accurate Shooter with Scott Thompson

There's a lot of variables, you know, the wind, the animal takes a step. You feel like if you're on a hill and you can see it, you can kill it. Simplicity is our key goal. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here and Adam Bronson of Epic Outdoors with another podcast. We got an awesome guest with us here today, Scott Thompson of Thompson Long Range and Critter Lick. Of course, Scott does a lot of different things, but super excited to dive in with him here. We do want to, before we get started, thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast, as well as some of the different things we're working with them on. So anyway, really appreciate them and the hunting industry and the support they give us as hunters. So anyway, how you doing, Scott? I'm doing great. I want to thank you guys for the opportunity. You bet. Well, we've known you guys for a long, long time, but for maybe some of the listeners that don't know you as well,

tell us where you're from, where you're located, a little bit about your background and things like that. Okay, I'm in Logan, Utah.

Been hunting, fishing outdoors my entire life. I was raised, you know, in pretty much the perfect location to do it all. So we do a lot of snowmobiling. We do a lot of hunting, do a lot of fishing.

My dad, Mark Thompson, started the company several years ago, along with a few others. It's been very good to be a part of. And I just can't explain my love and passion for what he's raised me in and taught me about. We've known Mark for many, many years. In fact, even when I was going to college up there at Utah State there in Logan, I knew of Mark. And when you say a few years ago, he started the company. What is, like, tell us about the company. Is it Thompson Long Range? Yeah, Thompson Long Range, we started at about 99. And it just started with these local people. And if I remember right, Jason, you guys kind of got wind of it and come up and give us a visit.

And kind of looked what we were after and kind of give us more ideas. And we went from there and actually took it a little farther. Yeah, that's 100% right. When we got wind of it, we were fired up. He wanted us to come up. And then, you know, that was kind of our introduction to long-range hunting and shooting was your dad. It was pretty amazing. We were, you know, when you, you know, pull a gun out of the box, mount the scope, you know, shoot it there in your guys' facility. And then go out and hit a 1,000-yard target. And, you know, like, back then, I don't know, it was just the very edge of, you know, all of this stuff and all of these, you know, innovations and whatnot coming together. And long-range shooting just wasn't, it was just gaining popularity. And it was kind of new for everybody.

And I remember the day I was up there with your dad and we shot those targets and I was blown away. Like, you feel like if you're on a hill and you can see it, you can kill it. It was, it just was an amazing feeling. And it made, you know, 500-yard shots just look dumb. You know, it was unbelievable. Unbelievable. So, and I don't know how old you, how old you were. I mean, how old are you, Scott? I'm 29. So, 29, back it up to, let's say, early 2000s.

I was young. You were a little, you were a little feller. And I think at the time he was, your dad said you were out snowmobiling, you know. I don't know that I met you on that particular trip. I can't remember, but it felt like you were, I know you were snowmobiling quite a bit, even at that young age. Correct. So, anyway, and then, and then if I remember, I remember seeing these stacks of chandeliers in the warehouse, like the, they were, you know, antler chandeliers, but they weren't antlers. They were replicas. Replica type, you know. Do you guys still do all that? Correct. Yeah, it's Cast Horn Designs is the company name. We started it in 96. And it's, you know, my mom wanted a big chandelier for the house. And the price tag on a real chandelier, an authentic chandelier is just outrageous. So, right then it just sparked an idea in my dad's head.

And we got into looking at molding antlers and different ways to do it. And we actually went with a rotational mold with a poly density plastic. And we went that route just because of the durability of it. And, yeah, we've manufactured those since 96. We do elk horns, mule deer horns, white tail horns, moose. We actually do wagon wheels, ox yokes, all kinds of stuff. Wow. You guys are still cranking that business, too. You guys are busy. Still doing it. Yeah, we got them in Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's. It's been a good business. Anybody that knows Mark and yourself, I mean, there's one thing about it. They all say that everything you guys do turns to gold. Everything you touch turns to gold. And kudos for that to both you and Mark. We've been very fortunate. So what is your role, Scott, within all of these companies now? What do you oversee?

Or do you have one company that's kind of yours now? Or are you still involved in all three of them to some extent? I'm involved in all of them. Pallets. We own Pallets of Utah. That's our main business. And I do all the accounting, office work, management of that. But then aside from that, I get to sit in the office and I get to talk to all the long-range clients. I get to sell chandeliers. I get to sell critter lick. So I really love my job. Bit of everything, sounds like. Yeah. And how about your dad? I mean, we've both been up and done your course. And it's been a long time ago. I think Jason came up with me probably on the second go-around or my brother both. But it wasn't in 99 or 2000 when Jason first came up. But it was a long time ago. And so your dad's still involved. I haven't seen him for years. But I know we talked to him the other day.

He pretty much does all of the long-range classes. He takes the guys and actually does the shooting with them. Correct. So I'll book him. I'll schedule you. But Mark is the guy that's going to teach you and take you to the course. Wow. Give us the basics for, you know, there's a lot of long-range systems out there. And, of course, you know, there's turrets and reticles and a little of everything. And anyway, and I know, you know, your dad was, and you are just a fan of simplicity. And that's what I liked about your stuff. Very simple. It was easy to use. And in the heat of battle, you know, so to speak, it sure has been easy. I've taken a lot of critters using your guys' rifle that I bought from you. And anyway, just kind of give us a rundown of how the long-range system works. Okay. You couldn't have said it better. You know, simplicity is our key goal.

I mean, the long-range shooting scheme has definitely developed and come a long ways. But it's really nothing new. And from the very beginning, I mean, our rifles were always zeroed at 300 yards. And that sounds strange to some, but we were always shooting that extra mile.

I mean, I'll just tell one quick story. You know, there was a famous Buffalo hunter, Billy Dixon. That guy would pace stuff off, measure distances. And he's actually a scout, too, for the Army. And that's the guy that shot, you know, the Indian warrior off the back of his horse at 1,530-some yards. So it's nothing new. And those Buffalo hunters would pace off trees, rocks, where those Buffalo would come through. And they'd shoot, you know, 1,100, 1,200, 1,300 yards. And they would actually want to recover their bullet so they could melt it down and reuse it. So accuracy and long-range has been around forever. I think that was all in the 1870s, 1860s. Jeez. So when we apply that to today's modern technology, all this good stuff we've got, really you can make it as complex or as simple as you want.

I've seen guys bring, you know, six, seven, $10,000 guns, just the most beautiful guns you've ever seen through our course. Yeah. And not know how to use it. Right. Every rifle out there works just fine. It's just what you feed it. So that is our key thing when we bring guys in. We pull a brand new rifle out of the box. We develop a load for that rifle. We teach you how to properly mount a scope. And then we take that rifle to the 1,000-yard course. Yeah. And I think I, that's one thing I'd like to emphasize because, you know, for people that have shot guns their whole life and hunted their whole life or somebody that's from back east that shoots white tails or everything under 100 yards pretty much, everybody in between. When you go to that class with you guys and you actually do just what you described.

Take a gun literally out of the box and mount a scope out of the box on it in a property way so you know that your axis is, you know, horizontal and vertical or dead on. And then work the load up right there with, you know, from primer to case to powder to bullet and everything and shoot it right there. It, it makes it, it's not rocket science like you said earlier. It's, it's very simple and when people see that and when I saw it, it, it just reinforces that, all right, when I now take this home and feed it the same load that we just cooked up right here, which is nothing special. It's, you know, it's not like we're pushing the envelope of what this gun can do. It's a very comfortable load within specs and all that. But it just, the confidence somebody has walking away from that course is, is unparalleled.

And I think that's really what, that's, that's what it takes to then take that to the field and go hunting. And that's what really impressed me about, about the course is you take it, you take a gun that you've never, you know, a factory gun, if I'm not mistaken. I mean, you don't, you're just a factory gun out of the box and, and develop it yourselves. They do it themselves with your involvement, obviously, but that's, I imagine you guys have dozens of stories of people just say, I can't believe that I just did that. You know, that, that is probably the best part of this whole thing is when you bring somebody out and they go five, six, seven, like nothing. Then you give them a break for a minute, you shoot another caliber and then you go back and you shoot eight, nine, and a thousand. They look at you like that did not just happen. Did I do that? Yeah. It's an unbelievable feeling.

I know. I know. Disbelief. And you guys, so I want to break it down just a little bit. So the, you know, people that don't, aren't familiar, I mean, you and I are familiar with what you got going and, and you probably feel like the whole world is. And, and, you know, just cause you've been around for so long and a lot of people do know, and you guys run, you know, heavy in the advertisements, but basically it's a Leupold scope. So you've got, you know, you've got reticles customized to, you know, a bullet at a, you know, an Acubon at a certain speed, 3350 if I remember right. That's correct. And those reticles come in at, you know, they start at three, four, five, six, seven, they're just lines. And then a heavy, seems like a heavier line. Is it a heavier line at seven and then eight, nine, 10? Correct. Yeah.

So we've got dots at four, five, six, a lower crosshair at seven, just for a quick reference. And then dots at eight, nine and a thousand. Yes, that's right. And it, it is ballistically matched to the load that we develop. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and roughly, you know, you'll mount the scope on a, on a Weatherby rifle out of the box and then, and go shoot that gun. And, and it's a, usually the caliber, I know you've run the 257 at times, but it, you know, for a lighter gun and it, and it basically in theory is the same principle, but, uh, you're also, you know, heavily using that 3378. Is that still kind of. Those are the two you're mainly using? Uh, yeah. Um, we, the 3378 has been the go-to for years and definitely an overall pop popularity, but we do offer all the Weatherby Magnums now. So everything from, everything from the 240 all the way up to the 338. Okay.

And then obviously their new 65300. That's great. So, and you just got matching reticle, scopes and reticles for each caliber. You've shot them enough. They're, they're factory guns. So, you know, within, you know, not every gun's going to take the exact amount of powder to get the exact velocity, but you know, you're within the specs, you up a grain or so on either end and you're kind of right where you need to be type thing. Exactly. Yeah. Every gun has to come across the bench one at a time to find that sweet spot. Well, there's a lot of guys out there that say, well, yeah, but that doesn't calculate for elevation and temperature and all that. And when, you know, when I've run the numbers on elevation to temperature, I mean, it's a slight difference. It takes a major change in elevation to really make a noticeable difference. Is that what you guys have found? Correct.

And that's, that's why we base everything off of the Weatherby Magnums. I mean, we'll work with, you know, a few of the 300 Ultras or the 7mm Remington Ultras, some of the fast calibers. When you take that and calculate that all out, when you've got a very fast flat shooting rifle, those variables are dropped considerably. Okay. If you're, if you're to shoot, you know, like something different that's got a heavier bullet, high BC with a big arc in it. Yeah. Then honestly, a holdover reticle is not the way to go because of those variables. Okay. All right. Well, yeah, that's great. That's a, I never, you know, I actually haven't thought of that being fast and flat like that and making, and I seems like at 900, I've run some numbers. It's like seven yards, you know, and a lot of guys can't even hold that tight, you know, what, what difference that'll make. And so. Correct. Anyway.

And, um, all right. So what do you tell guys when they want to bring their gun and put your scope on it and have you work up a load for their favorite rifle? What do you usually tell guys? Um, we get them in here every single day. So mainly the Weatherby Magnums, um, is what we work on. But I do also work up a few for like the 300 Ultra, uh, or the 7M Remington Ultra. We're more than happy to put rings, bases, our scope on there, and we put the exterior bubble level on it. Yeah. And I mean, sometimes some of them come together real quick. Some of them take a little bit longer, but we do indeed try to turn everything within a 10 day frame. Oh, okay. Great. So as far as, uh, as far as the school and whatnot, tell us a little bit about you, you've got the guns, you've got the scope set up and the school.

Tell us, you know, tell us, you know, somebody calls you up, wants to go through your setup. How, how much time do they need to plan for? Do they come out just in, in a day and head home usually? Or tell us how that, what entails that? We've got it structured so it's, you know, built for the busy guy in mind. It's on a fly in one day, fly out the next day basis. So you can call me. We run it every single day from April till August. And we start normally three o'clock in the afternoon, the first day. So that gives you time to fly into Salt Lake City and drive to Logan. We'll go late into the evening. Um, everything is done inside the shop as far as, you know, mounting the scopes and developing a load and go over and going over ballistics and stuff like that. The following day, we take care of your, you know, we take you to dinner.

We can discuss all this stuff and we take care of your lodging. The following morning, we start early. And everything is done at our thousand yard range. That is all, you know, indoor as well. So weather is not an issue. And usually finish about 11, 30, 12 o'clock and can get you on your way back to Salt Lake City. So indoor, indoor means, you know, you're indoors. Indoor shooting booth, I should say. Okay. Yeah. You'll still shoot in weather and whatnot. Oh yeah. Just kind of deal with that. Yep. Well, that's awesome. That's great. So basically, if I remember, I mean, you guys have like pallets or rifles and guys will come in and grab a rifle out of the box, put it in their name, mount a scope, and you're shooting. And then they're home the next day. You bet. Yeah. That's awesome. You can't beat that. Come on.

Well, and I don't know what their percentage is, but it's got to be pretty dang high of the people that come out, take your course, put that gun together, and want to take it home with them when they're done. I mean, it's a minute percentage. Oh, that's not for me. No, that doesn't. No, nobody does that. Yeah. So, Gar, I remember my dad, of course, if anybody that knows my dad, I mean, he goes out there and, you know, he's thinking, yeah, we'll see what Mark has to do, you know, has to say. And he goes out there and we put together a rifle. We go out to the range, and he's like, yeah, that's my gun. Nobody touches that gun. And, I mean, that's the way you feel. That's the way I felt, too, is like when you feel like you did something extraordinary and you could only do it with that rifle, even though the whole pallet of rifles would do that.

Yeah, you and your dad are there laughing like, well, the bottom one on the pile would have done the same thing as that one. That's exactly right. So, obviously, you've got a great relationship with Weatherby. You feel, you know, you've got a, you know, strong confidence in their product and whatnot. I mean, and they're a good-looking rifle on top of that, and they do have a long-standing reputation. But I guess I'm just preaching to the choir on that. I mean, you guys are super confident in their rifles. For sure, yes. So, what about muzzleloaders? I know at times, you know, years ago, and I haven't talked to Mark about this, but years ago you guys were starting to get into muzzleloaders. Did you ever, did that ever develop into, you know, long-range muzzleloading? A little bit. I mean, we were working with Ultimate Firearms.

Kenneth Johnson was building just a phenomenal muzzleloader years and years ago. There's been several come on the market. We actually don't offer anything. If you need one, I can still call Kenneth. We can get you one here. And, yeah, they are, you know, they're a 500-yard muzzleloader. Yeah, that's amazing. I still have one of those original Ultimates, and they are the ultimate. They're amazing. They are. They were way ahead of their time. Yeah. So, well, you know, if somebody just listened to this, Scott, and, you know, maybe doesn't have the time or whatever to come out and actually go through your course with you, in your opinion, what's one or two things that you think are some of the bigger things that are simple fixes for people to improve their shooting accuracy or that they can just, you know, minor changes to really improve their rifle shooting accuracy?

And, I mean, maybe part of it's them, but part of it might be their setup too. But what do you guys find? You know, the biggest thing is a lot of guys are stuck on 100-yard groups. And it's been proven time and time again that the 100-yard group is not everything. And I will apply this to something else that, I mean, we talk about a 1,000-yard gun. We talk about a 500-yard muzzleloader. And that's all great stuff, but it's not the fact that we're going to go out and shoot animals at those distances. It's the fact that we want to shoot targets at those distances. And we want to be better marksmen at the 3, 4, and 500 yards. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I love getting close. I love being tight with animals. So it's just these long-range shots that are building us as marksmen. So if you've got a rifle that you absolutely love, I mean, just start with the basics.

Even factory ammunition has come a long ways. And you can go buy five, six different styles of ammunition as long as it's the premium ammunition. And you might find just a sweet load for your rifle. If you're a hand loader, then obviously you know the in-depth details to working up a load. But a good mounting system on top of your rifle and a good scope and just time behind the rifle is what makes you more confident in the field. Yeah, I remember, you know, talking to your dad about that. And I was, you know, kind of disappointed in one particular gun, you know, the 100-yard group. And he says, well, it's a problem if you're hunting field mice. And, you know, that's just your dad. And then he pulled out this article. And I can't remember where it was published. It was like in Shooting Times or something. There was an article, and it was on like the .308.

And it had 100-yard groups for X amount of rifles and X amount of loads. And then it had the same rifles at 500, the 500-yard groups. And actually, one of the worst rifles, you know, grouping about a 5-inch group, if I remember right, at 100, which is, you know, bad, terrible. Yep. At 500 was still like in that 5-inch range, and everything else had blown out a little bit. And, of course, you know, your dad kind of said, you know, it's like throwing a football. It stabilizes over distance. And, you know, a bullet does the same thing. It may be a little wobbly up front, but it kind of stabilizes over the course of distance. And don't be so disappointed if it's not shooting a half-inch group at 100. Like throw some lead out there at 5, 6, 800, 1,000, and make sure, you know, what it's really doing. That's correct.

And another way to look at that is, you know, we all, when we travel to hunt or we fly with our guns, the 100-yard zero is a good barometer just to maybe double-check because, you know, you touch down your outfitter's place, you don't have a 3- to 500-yard range to go, hey, check it all out. But so you need to know where your gun should be hitting at 100 yards for those just checking where it's at. But what you're saying is don't get caught up in a dime size or .36 group, right? That's what you're saying. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, it is difficult for some guys to get to 300 yards. But, I mean, take your top three loads, you know, that you feel are going to be within the realm of your rifle and then take them out to 300. Tell us a little bit about, like, people that are kind of critical of long-range shooting and, you know, thinking it's not ethical and whatnot.

And, you know, just kind of what's your response to some of that? It's a double-edged sword for sure. I guess as far as you look at it, tag numbers, animals, everything has become harder to get. And if you look at this long-range thing or this long-range fad that has become very, very popular, you can look at it two ways. One way is, obviously, I think it's good because it has built so many great marksmen. And, I mean, I remember just when I was a young kid, 100, 200-yard shots were, they were still a stretch. And people were shooting animals all over the place and wounding animals. Well, now that this long-range craze has come on, guys are shooting a lot at 700, 800 yards. And then one to 400-yard shots are just deadly accurate now. Yeah. And I have to agree. This long-range stuff is actually, you know, to me, you know, not that we want to take animals at 1,000.

You know, I'd take coyotes, wolves, stuff like that, no problem. I'm going to be launching some lead. But, you know, and then it makes it to where, you know, these 500-yard shots, pretty much 100% of the time, unless, you know. Terrible wind or something like that. Yeah. Something, your scope got bumped or something 100% of the time that animal dies. Adam's guided a lot of hunters over the years. And, of course, you know, I've spent a lot of time in the field and killed some stuff. And it's like this long-range stuff, it's different. It's actually, to me, it's ethical. You know, it's maybe not at 1,000 or 1,200 or 1,600. We keep, you know, pushing the envelope. But it makes those shots that were unethical 15 years ago fully ethical. Like with, you know, 90% probability it's going exactly where it's supposed to go.

When we were shooting, you know, deer at, like you were saying, 300, 400 and hitting their kneecap, you know, or whatever. You're holding over 36 inches at 450. Yeah. How much is 36 inches? Yeah. You're guessing. You're throwing it over the back and, you know, all right, let's see where this sits. Somebody tell me. You know, that's how it went when we were growing up. No. That's not ethical. So. And, yeah, I think a lot of that, this long-range craze has cured a lot of that. But my other side that I don't like to see is, I mean, the target guns, the absolute bench guns are starting to come into the hunting world with bullets and stuff that I guess I wouldn't recommend on big game. Well, let's dive into that. Like, tell us what you're talking about. Tell us about some of the new innovative stuff that maybe we haven't even heard of just because you're in that industry.

I mean, in the industry, like 12, 13, 14, 15 is starting to become an advertisement. And, honestly, I just hate to see it. Yeah. One of the key things is to shoot that far and be consistent that far, you know, it requires a high BC bullet or a very low drag bullet. Yeah. And so many of those. Longer than low profile. Yeah. Yep. So many of those bullets just have terrible performance on game animals. Yeah. So I just hate to see those guns start to work their way into the hunting world. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely a happy medium there. Yeah. It seems like almost. Oh, and I mean, if we're kind of trained. I mean, if we shot something at 400 yards when we were 16 years old, we bragged to the high. I mean, it was a big deal. Like, and it was legitimate and you had friends there that witnessed it. It was monumental.

So there's somewhat of an instinctual pound your chest a little bit if you pull off a great shot. But what we're, what I, I guess want to bring up here, like you're kind of leading to is the 12 to 1500 yard shots. If people go out hunting with the intention of, I'm going to break my record or I'm going to, I'm looking to wow people with this. That's not what it's about. That is not ethical. There's a lot of variables. You know, the wind, the animal takes a step at 12. That's three quarters of a mile. Yeah. What we're talking about. You know, animal takes a step, whatever. Um, but what I, what I will echo and that these setups, I'd fully agree with people that, that take a gun setup and use it and know how it's, know how it's set up, know how it can be used and take the time to actually shoot it. And know, know the limitations still that they place upon themselves.

Cause I'm the one of the guys personally that I'm scared. If I see a deer or elk at 800 plus that I want to kill, I want to make sure I kill it. And so I, my, my mindset is I'm going to shave off two or 300 yards and kill it at 500. That's how I'm, that's how I'm programmed because if it's that big, I don't want it getting away. And you know, I don't, I mean, I don't think I'm a bad shot, but I don't think I'm quickly down under either. You know what I mean? I'm, you know, I'm, I, I want to make sure, you know, I would rather in situations are different. I realize, um, you know, if you're hunting a specific buck, you're the only one there. He steps out. It's a little late in the day. You know, I, I tend to be the guy. All right. It's a little out of the, out of my comfort zone.

I'm going to, I'll wait till morning and I'll, I'll roll the dice that I can get, I'm going to cut the distance in the morning and kill it. Um, but there's other sense situations and Jason, I, I'll bring this one up. We were guiding a client, uh, for desert sheep in Nevada, monster ram. We'd watched it all summer long and, um, opening day got in on the ram. Hunter, hunter hit it, uh, shot, shot it close 200, 250 yards. I don't remember, but, but close ram runs over the ridge. We'd tell it was hit, but we scrambled to top of the ridge thinking, all right, maybe dead right there. You're not sure. Well, we pick up the ram. He's out there 600 yards, windmill on a front shoulder. And we're like, okay, this thing is, this needs another bullet and it, or it's going to get away. And fortunately our hunter, um, he had a, he had a setup of his own that I don't know, somebody that set it up for him.

Don't really remember at all about what kind of gun it was, but he had a bipod. He laid, I just says, lay down and, and, uh, I'll read the ranges to you. And I remember feeling my heart sinking because this is a giant sheep and it had a bullet in it. And it was obviously going to die from that because he had a broken leg. And we felt like we might not recover it. Yeah. And, but he had a setup and he had shot it. And so I remember ranging seven, 725, 750, 775, eight. And it turns broadside and boom, hunched up. And it stood there again. Boom. And he put two shots. How far were they? Like two or three inches apart. Two or three inches right behind the shoulder. And the ram died. Okay. So that's what a setup can do in a situation you didn't intend. I, I don't, we, I don't think we'd have let him shoot at 800 yards the first time at that ram.

No way we'd have said, all right, we cannot let this ram get away. Let's cut the distance and kill him. Yeah. But there. And then we cut the distance. You've got him close range. He gets buck fever or whatever the situation is. Just, just, that's 180 inch ram staring at you 225 yards. What's anybody's going to, can have a meltdown at that range, you know, of a ram that big. Well over 40 inches long, a guy, I mean, he, he, you know, it's normal to get ram fever at that point. But, so, but that's just. But it was nice that it, that he did have a setup and was able to. Finish the job. And do it right. Yeah. Like it was solid. It was a. With the, with the hold over three to nine reticle, one, you know, hold over. You're watching that ram hopefully go that you can watch him bed down and hope, hope. Yeah. You get on to finish up. So that's. Yep. That's.

There's situations like that, that I think the confidence of having this type of setup will just allow you to finish the job. If something doesn't go as scripted. And I've had, I've had multiple experiences. One time I was up there hunting wolves in Idaho and, and you know, you go up there and it's not one of those things. Hunting wolves isn't something you're going to get close to, or you feel like you're going to shoot a wolf at two or 300 yards even. And so, you know, you want to take good equipment that can shoot long range. And I ended up glassing up this wolf. We saw him in the morning, couldn't get on him. And he was chasing elk and messing around. There was a pair of them. And anyway, got up in there with them. They were bedded, glassed them up bedded. And, uh, he got up and I was on a bipod course. That's one thing I want to talk about your dad a little bit.

But anyway, got on, was on a bipod, had the butt of my gun rested, my, the front of my gun rested and knew I was going to make the shot and, and killed him at 725 yards. And, and, uh, you know, it was just an awesome opportunity. And that came from long range. It came from, you know, your dad, uh, you know, kind of starting us off in the long range world. And, and also when you go through your course, you guys are instilling you, you know, the setup as far as, you know, having the front rested, having the back rested, you guys use high rings. And so your head's not, you know, kink down on the stock. And there was just a few little things that I learned from Mark that I think will carry through me, you know, through the rest of my life of just how to shoot properly. Just a few of those techniques. And I'm sure you guys, I mean, there's a couple examples we just shared, but, but Scott, you

got anything that comes to mind? I mean, you, you guys obviously are probably like robots behind your own guns. You guys have, uh, shot them so much and helped set them up so much with, with clients and you, you, I mean, you know, it's comes natural to you, but still you got any experiences that, that just the marksmanship of, of learning a system like yours has helped you in a practical hunting situation. You've got to have a lot, but you got any one or two that come to mind prominently? I mean, there's, there's, there is a lot, but I mean, I can't pick one out and just tell a story, but I mean, we'll go back to the bipod and the foundation that it takes to shoot off of. I mean, you got to be comfortable. You got to make sure it happens. Um, I guess I will tell one, it will be the first one when all of this was starting. Um, I'll never forget it.

I was probably 14 years old in Wyoming and we had this buck across the draw and it was 460 yards and at the 33, 78s for, you know, three or four years. And I'll never forget thinking, you know, I know this can happen. I know I can make this shot. I do it every day, but my mind, because it was so early in the game and early in the long range program, my mind just started thinking and overthinking this, this shot. But finally, when, you know, we got the bipod out and the backpack locked under the rear of the rifle, I remember leveling that thing off and just touching the river, the trigger and just dumping the steer. And that one is embedded in my mind forever as, you know, one of the first long range shots. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're 14. It's just getting over this, you know, your excitement and all this stuff and just settling

in behind the rifle, you know, an anti-cant device is so crucial on, on shots. And I just remember looking up at that bubble level and then just easing back into the scope. And it was just like routine, like you said, and it's just, that's where my comfort level set in. And that's when I knew it was time to go. Yeah. You know, I always look at, think about it and I don't know if there's, you know, I always look at it like with the anti-cant, meaning the bubble on your scope, you know, that you guys mount on the exterior part of your rifle scope is, is, you know, when that's not level, you're thinking the bullet's hitting at a certain crosshair. But if it's not level, the bullet's dropping with gravity, then you've got a problem. It's not going to hit where you think it's going to hit. Yeah. It's not, not arcing straight up and straight down. It's arcing in a, I don't know, diagonal.

You've got to go diagonal and really it's, it's fundamental of just straight up and down, you know, minus the wind. So. Yep. And that, that, that applies to, I mean, every turret system out there, every holdover reticle system. I mean, that thing has to follow true through the center of the bore. Straight up and down. Yep. Yep. Yeah. I remember there was a time I was shooting your guys' gun. I was down on the Paiute Indian Reservation. I had a 209 inch deer. He was like 560 yards. And I was new at this. And I was, I'd done it. I'd done it a hundred times with your dad. I knew what the gun was capable of, but it's still in a real world situation. I felt like it was 14 miles away and was a little bit nervous. And it was a heavy, heavy angle uphill. And I was set on that deer. It's totally set. The deer was bedded and I was just waiting for him to get up.

But I was kind of, it was before we knew, it was before we had angle range compensation and knew what the, how the angle affected it. And so I texted your dad. I was down on the bipod. I texted your dad and I said, Mark, I'm set up. I'm going to kill this deer. I'm going to try anyway. I feel good about the shot other than I'm a heavy angle. He asked me what I thought the angle was. He replied, I mean, right off the bat, asked me what I thought the angle was. I told him and he said, put it on 475. I touched that. You know, the deer gets up a half hour later. I touched it off and it was done. Like it hit exactly centered lung punch, bedded the deer back down forever and walked up and it's a 209 inch deer. And anyway, I just, it was just awesome. That was with the 3378 I'd picked up from you guys. And, and it was just awesome.

I knew the gun could do it, but, and I had the chart, you know, you have the angle chart on your gun. And of course now we have, you know, if you still want to do that, there's even apps on your phone to calculate the angle of your barrel and what you just, you know, but I don't know. Back then. We've learned a lot since then. And of course, technology has come a long ways. It's funny. You were talking about your story with your deer. I got one other story. My first big deer, 237 inch from Nevada. He's my first giant. He was early, early in my career. And it was a 400 yard shot. I was on this deer. I knew he was 400. I didn't think 400 was that far, but we never practiced at 400. Back in those days, you practiced like Adam was talking about. You practice at a hundred and call it good. And he's like, well, if you just aim at the top of his back or something, it should be fine.

And I got on that deer. He's dead calm. I'm by myself. I touched one off and I think I hit him like lower leg. And I was so disgusted with myself. Felt so bad. And anyway, of course, after three or four more shots, you know, he was dead on the ground. But now that's just such a chip shot with this long range system. It's not, it's really, it's nothing. It's, it's, it might as well be 50 yards. Yeah. So anyway, well, let's, let's talk about this other stuff. I mean, how long you guys been doing critter lick and what is critter lick? Let's talk about that a little bit. So critter lick is a granule manual that we come up with. It's got just a funny story behind it. We started with the trail cameras years ago, like everybody and trail cameras are just an absolute blast. It's so fun to see what's out there. And it's like Christmas every time you go and check them. Yeah.

We started on, you know, water holes and stuff like that. It's like everybody else. And it comes down to an old sheep herder. My dad's got a lot of history with the sheep herders in, in the Valley. And we were on horses and we were checking cameras. And, um, he says, come over here. Let me show you something. So we rode around this, I mean, just nasty, steep face. We get down on this point and we ride up on this knob and it is completely destroyed. Just a huge crater in the earth. And he says, this is one of the spots where we, where we put the minerals for the sheep. And me and my dad are like, oh my gosh. So we put some cameras on it and sure enough, those, and it had been like six or seven years prior when he dumped this stuff out. We put a camera on. They were just eating dirt then. They're just been eating dirt. Just eating the dirt.

So we put a camera on it and those, those game animals were still coming in there. So we asked him if he had any more and he dug it out of an old rusty 55 gallon drum and put it in a sack. And we took some up and we were absolutely blown away with the results. So I have another really good friend that's just a mineral scientist and he actually broke it down. I mean, the sheep herder had a good idea of what it all was, but he broke it down and told us where to buy the product and how to get it and how to mix it. So it all started from that point forward. And I mean, it's, we sell it in four pound bags so that you can, you know, carry it around pretty easy. We did it in a granular form just because when you dump it out, I mean, it hits the wind and it just fills the whole canyon with the scent. So you usually get results pretty fast.

The only thing on Critter Lake is it is a mineral and it's based off of a kind of a soil content. And every location in the States is different. I mean, so some places you just get phenomenal results. Other places it's a little more difficult. So it's just a trial and error thing, but it's, it's been a fun little company that we got going and it's, yeah. Yeah. I don't know what, I don't know what I'd do without it now. Yeah. Well, you're right. You've hit on a lot of things. You know, we, Jason and I love to run trail cameras, both on water or, you know, obviously in places like you said, and I'll, I'll echo that, you know, my use of, of your product Critter Lake has had spot results probably more for deer. It just seems like elk just crush it no matter whatever it is. It's just, it's a lot less variation in my experience for elk. Maybe that's just Southern Utah.

I don't know how you guys have it up there, but bulls especially. And maybe it has a lot more to do with how much antler they're actually putting on obviously versus, you know, deer and everything else. But elk just seem to crush it. Deer sometimes just crush it. And other times, you know, it seems like on some mountain ranges, maybe some of the more arid areas. Yeah. They don't, they don't. Well, we're hunting a lot of desert stuff. Like I'm especially, I'm hunting out in a lot of desert stuff and maybe it's not quite as good, but the higher elevation stuff. And maybe you guys know, you know, of course you're dealing with thousands of clients, but, you know, it feels like up higher, it's working well. I don't know. Is that, is there something to that elevation or is it just the. Truly uniquely mountain range to mountain range difference. What have you found?

It's honestly mountain range to mountain range. Is it? I mean, you, they're pretty much everywhere. They'll come in and check it out. Yeah. But where those locations are that that mineral or that soil doesn't have the content and the nutrition and they're craving it. Yeah. And Critter Lick is providing it. They actually like will 100% pattern to it until their antlers stop growing. Yeah. It was that gentleman I was speaking of works a lot with high fence companies. Mm-hmm. So they work a lot on horn growth and just the overall health of the animals. Yeah. And like you would livestock or anything. It's like they need it to. So they're not out, you know, so they're not spending time looking for a weird mineral and they just want them eating and putting on pounds. Basically. That's exactly right. And so, I mean, you just put this and you'll know right away.

I mean, your results should come within the first two to three weeks, whether you have got the right soil content that the Critter Lick is going to provide what you need. I mean, you're not only capturing images, but you're helping those animals in those areas get what they need. So do you feel like it's good for them for antler growth or do you think they're just kind of, they like it and so, you know, they use it that way? Or do you feel like it's healthy for them? Yeah. There's one, there's one item in there that is 100% going to help with the overall growth on antlers. Okay. A couple more items in there that it's just absolutely, I mean, it just helps them overall.

I can't tell you how many times I've set up a camera and when the new fawns and calves are, you know, just barely born, their mother will bring them in there and she will actually leave them in the Critter Lick site for, you know, a few hours. And those, those years are those just freshly born doe or, you know, fawns and calves will just sit there and mill around in that Critter Lick and then the mom will come back and pick them up. So it's what they need. I mean, animals know. Yeah, they're picking up on it. They know what they need. Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. So I don't know. Do you know, we didn't talk about this earlier at all, but do you know a Kellen Cook by chance? I do. Okay. I don't know. I know he's head freaks on Instagram. One of these Instagram stories he put on there was this, I mean, it's a, it's an amazing little Instagram video clip. It's posted about three days ago.

But anyway, it shows deer, elk, moose, things coming into this Critter Lick site. I mean, I mean, they're digging through a foot of snow to get to the Critter Lick or where they're used to the Critter Lick being. And of course, he's not dumping Critter Lick on top of the snow. They're digging under the snow. And anyway, he did a whole, what is it, six months, over the course of six months without applying new Critter Lick, they just keep coming. I was shocked at that video. I was shocked at it. Uh-huh. So, I don't know, have you even, have you checked that out by chance? I did, I did see that. Yeah, that was pretty awesome. I don't know. I was, it was impressive. I was impressed by it. Well, this is, we're kind of getting to that time of year, I would imagine, you know, for a lot of people looking to, you know, help their scouting and whatnot. Where does, where's your stuff found?

I mean, do you have to buy it direct from you guys, just on the web and ship it out, or is that the easiest way, or how do they get their hands on it? Mainly on the web, yeah. Yeah, I ship it out. And, you know, if, if you do decide to order some and receive some, and you get it in one of those areas that you don't receive the results that I'm expecting, I want to know about it. I want to hear about it. Okay. Because that just, that just, that helps me study and know that area, and, and maybe we can come up with another, another option for there. Okay. All right. Well, let's, I know you're a serious deer hunter. Of course, you're killing about everything that walks, but, and all, we followed you a little bit on, on course, you're killing some serious deer and, and we're deer fanatics ourselves.

And so, anyway, I know you've hunted a lot in Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, even the rubies there in Nevada, but. Colorado. I mean, it's like. Yeah, Colorado. You got like a four state rotation or a couple of them, like Idaho, you can kill a couple bucks a year. You ever feel guilty killing so many critters or what's that? How do you feel about all that? That's coming from Jason Carter himself. Yeah, that's right. Come on. Pot calling the kettle pretty black. Yeah, but tell us about that. You got a mule deer addiction going on. How are you doing it? What are some of the better bucks you've been taking and maybe a story or two behind them?

I, yeah, I'm just a mule deer fanatic. They're just so unique. I don't know. I've just, I've always chased them harder than anything else. Um, I love the general seasons for the most part. And I think it's just the overall hard work that it takes to kill, you know, 180 inch plus buck on a general season tag. You bet. And you can get tags at least too, you know, easier. And yeah, I like hunting the same location, you know, or every year or every other year. So those tags that are available, those are the ones I pursue. Yeah. Um, I did get lucky and shoot a 37 inch buck on the rubies with my bow a couple years ago. That one. Tell us about a little more on his statistics. He's 37. Is he heavy? How many points? What's, what's he like? You know, he's only a three by three. He's super heavy. He was an older buck. Um, we'd seen him the year prior. Yeah. And absolutely fell in love with him.

He was a two by two the year before. Jeez. And he lived in some of the most gnarly country on that. Well, the whole place is terrible, but, um, we went in the next year, found him and his same bachelor group. And he's. And that was with your bow. I mean, you got, do we have a long range bow set, you know, course that we can attend or you Thompson's, if you can dream it, you're doing it. And so I figure there's gotta be something out there. I guess we got, we got some dials. Maybe we need some reticles or something on the bows.

Uh, so tell us, let's dive into that a little bit. I mean, you know, before we ask you what's left in alive, let's, uh, you know, hear the story on this deer. Like, um, how close were it? Did you end up getting to him? Was he patternable? Is it, did you use, is there anything, you know, anything that you, you know, helped you kill him or how'd that go? Uh, the, one of the unique things I found on the rubies is the water. Those bucks, even though they're at 10, 11,000 feet, they, they gotta have water for some reason. And so he was coming off a water hole that was, I mean, it wasn't a water hole. It was kind of a stream. So there was no way to kind of plan his route into that water. But when he would leave, he would drop off the cliffs and bed down on the backside. And so we just got lucky enough to spot him again on the first day.

And believe it or not, it was the same route as last year or the year prior. Yeah. So I got in position spotted. I don't know. I mean, there was 25 bucks in the group. So I was, I was a bit outnumbered. It wasn't fair. There was a lot of eyes and a lot of ears, but I knew one of the ribbon cliffs I wanted to be on and I worked my way into them and he dove down and then actually split off from the group and looped up above me and fed across and just a perfect approach angle and picked up a couple other bucks and they fed right into me at 30 yards. Jeez. Awesome. So he comes by, stops broadside or how'd that go down? You know, I, I remember there was a large rock and I was about a four foot rock. I was tucked in behind this thing and I could hear him chewing on the grass before I could see him because it was just dead calm. I mean, I had a slight breeze. It was coming just perfect.

But I remember the first time his tines come up over the little horizon and I was like, oh my gosh, this is really going to happen. And, um, he just kept feeding, kept feeding and the other two bucks come up behind him that he'd picked up and he come out front. He wasn't the back, but he come out front and there was just enough of a lip that when he tucked his head down to feed, I got, I was able to draw and make the shot. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That is awesome. Well, that's great. And so I know the, you know, the rubies has got, you know, some great bucks. Of course it's, I mean, that is a lot of units. It's a big giant area. Um, and so anyway, it's obviously something you're starting to learn or else you've learned and, and, uh, we'll continue to expect to see great things from you. You can beat the one in 25 odds. It sounds like that's nothing for you. So, so you got anything?

We've got, we've, we've gone from leftover tags to draw tags now though. So it's getting a little harder. It is. But, but still you're, you're doing awesome. You know, Idaho general, you know, Wyoming general, even though it's a draw, you're forcing the hand there, doing what you can to get tags there through regular special, whatever. And Colorado draw or landowner. I mean, you're, you're squeezing every opportunity you can and making most of it from what we're seeing. And so you got anything so far this year? I know we're waiting a lot of the, a lot of the draw results in some of these states we just talked about, but you got anything you got planned, big plans, you or your dad or any family members yet so far? Draws treated you good? Nothing crazy as far as draws go. I mean, again, it's just general stuff.

We've got bucks that we've watched for years and those are the ones we know we get to pursue again because the tags are available. Yeah. That's awesome. What's, uh, you have any craziest experience that you've seen in the wild or anything just... You did bring up the life, life or death one earlier. I guess we better come back to that. I don't know if that's the craziest, but it sounds like if it was near death, it had to be crazy. Tell us a little bit about what happened there. Yeah. Tell us about being on your deathbed. What was it like? Terrible. What was it like? It was terrible. It's tied in with snowmobiles. We've raced snowmobiles for... Well, my dad's raced them for 30 years. I've raced them for 16 years. We actually work for BRP. And all that racing and all the crazy stuff we've done, we've, you know, avoided injury pretty well, or for the most part.

And just a simple ride one day up the canyon caught me off guard. And it, um, it kind of, it was just an accident. And I ended up with a knee that was pretty much pulled from its socket and twisted around and tore up all the ligaments. So, long story short, I was life-flighted, couple surgeries. And, um, it wasn't too bad until I couldn't really function without a brace. So, they decided to go in and do one more surgery. This would be like the third surgery. And after that surgery, um, they, they got an infection, turned into staph, and then they put me on some antibiotics, went in, cleaned it all out. And then, about 30 days later, the antibiotic that they put me on my body had a reaction to, um, and it's called dress syndrome. It's very rare. But they life-flighted me back down to the hospital, and I spent seven days on my back.

And where this, where this, I guess, reaction is so rare, nobody really knew what it was. And it took, it took seven days to diagnose this, and diagnose it, and, um, figure out the outcome. But that was, um, I was looking for the button for those seven days, because I was out. No way. Geez. Just. But once, once they got it figured out, it was, um, it was, it was about a two or three month recovery. And, yeah, it was, thank my lucky stars for that one. So, now that you recovered, fully recovered, full movement, how, everything's really solid and good, still back to racing, all that? Still back to racing, still back to, yep, back to everything. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. So, I know you're, you're even somewhat humble in, in talking about your racing, but, I mean, you've got quite a reputation, northern Utah, Wyoming, hill climbs, all that. Yeah, it's been, it's been fun.

Again, my dad raised me right and raised me in it, and I've been just following his footsteps in this racing thing, and it's, it's been a lot of fun. The factory takes really good care of us. We get to develop new product, and I've got, I actually manage the race team that, um, does the hill climb circuit, and I've got a good, I've got a good group of young kids that are just phenomenal. Wow. That's great, man. Well, you've been able to do what you love to do. You've been able to do it with family. Of course, you and your dad are, you've got a great relationship, and, and that's to be commended. It's just awesome to see everything you guys are doing, and have you got anything, uh, coming out that's interesting, or anything that, uh, you can share with us that might, uh, change the world a little bit in our hunting, little hunting world here, or, or is it something,

you know, we can't talk about, or anything? I know you guys have got stuff in the works. You're always thinking. The wheelhouse is always turning, as Mark would say, but nothing, nothing to see anytime soon. Okay. All right. Well, that's great. Well, we appreciate your time today, Scott. We really do. You've got a wealth of knowledge and personal experience, and tell us, I guess, before we wrap things up, how's the easiest way to get a hold of you guys? I assume website and phone number, contact all on there, both either for Critter Lick or the Thompson Long Range. Tell us, tell us how they get a hold of you. Yep. You can find us on the website at Thompson Long Range or Critter Lick.com, and, um, a lot of the, a lot of the magazines, Epic has got, of course, our ad in it, and you can just contact me, call me in the office.

I'm usually here every day, so you can run into me and Mark, and we'd be happy to go over anything with you. Great. Well, we sure appreciate you, and Adam and I, as well as the other guys here in the office, sure appreciate your support of Epic, and, and, uh, you know, hopefully it'll be a long-lasting relationship we have. Of course, it started many, many years ago, and, uh, and we appreciate you guys and wish you the best, and as we wrap up, we'd just like to thank Under Armour for all that they've done with us in sponsoring this podcast and some other projects we've got going. A lot of good things coming out, innovating new products and working with them. So, anyway, thanks again, Scott. Wish you the best this year. We'll be in constant contact with you, and, uh, we know you're going to keep knocking down those big deer. Just, just maybe save a couple for us, all right, buddy? Okay.

Thanks, Scott. Appreciate it. Thank, thank you guys. I really appreciate it. All right. Sounds good. Thank you. So you to hear you to hear you to hear you to hear you to hear you to