EP 367: Jana Carter's 2025 Utah Desert Bighorn Sheep Hunt

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, brought to you by Fierce Firearms. Epic Outdoors choice for custom hunting rifles.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, John Peterson, Cash, how you doing? Good. Logan, how are you? I'm great. Getting done from a little bit of a grind hunt. It's nice to be back in civilization. At some point, do you ever get to hunt for yourself? I haven't yet, but I'll let you know how it goes when I do. It's going to feel great. It is. It's going to feel good. I feel somewhat the same a little bit, but I have been out and about. We've had some good success. It's been kind of a fun year. Jana, how are you doing? Good. Got Jana here on the podcast. Jason, how are you doing? I'm doing fine. Good. Just going to, I'm the host. Feeling a little bad that you're not hunting for yourself more? I'm the host. I can sense that. I get to ask the questions. I was going to say, no one ever asks you how you are. No. That's true. I like it that way. Fair point. I'm never good. I already know how he is.

I'm always good. So anyway, all right. So here we are. Let's see. We're right in the middle of the grind. It's what? October 6th. Tomorrow's the deadline for Arizona bison. Of course, things like that are coming up on us. As well as Texas Desert Sheep and whatnot. We've covered that in the October-November issue that everybody should have gotten. It's also online as an EMAG. And so that's great. Everything's going well here at Epic Outdoors. But we're also in the field quite a bit. Cash, you've been out quite a bit. Yeah. The last couple weeks has been like almost none. But before, yeah. A lot. A lot. Yeah. Devin and Wyatt trying to get caught up at their desk. They've been out quite a bit. And John, you're trying to get out of the office today. Yeah. Trying to go. Trying to get out. It's like, kind of like, hurry up. Jason, hurry up. So anyway, kind of fun.

Before we get started, we want to thank Fierce for sponsoring this podcast. They're our main title sponsor for everything we do here on the podcast at Epic Outdoors. Appreciate them and their support. If you're looking to buy a Fierce, of course, we have them. So we're the least expensive place you can possibly get them. Give us a holler. We also have things in stock as well as you can go to their website, Fierce Firearms, and check out what they've got. A lot of, a very proactive company with a lot of change. And I don't know. We've been killing stuff like crazy with their rifles. It's been awesome. They're kind of our go-to. Anyway, we'll get into that a little bit more as well. Jenna, you killed something with the Fierce rifle recently. Yeah, I did. That seemed to go well. It went well. It's a meme gun. It's a meme gun.

So anyway, I guess, should we give any updates real quick? Or we kind of, we basically got this hunt giveaway, the fall hunt giveaway. Yeah, the hunt giveaway. It's in full force right now. In fact, it's so short, it's going to be over before we know it. Less than a month. Yeah, really, really quick one. Yeah, it'll be awesome. So here we go. We've got a deadline of November 3rd. We're giving away a Yukon doll sheep, a Nevada 231 mule deer hunt. So it's unit 231. Includes the landowner tag, guide service, and everything. And then we've got two Utah antelope tags as well. Just cranking them out. Very short application period. November 3rd's coming up right away. Ticket packages. We've got $30 for one ticket, $125 for five, $250 for 10, and $500 for 30. So anyway, get your name in the hat. That'd be something to, kind of an application period, if you will, for just some world-class,

world-class hunts that we're super excited to give away. And appreciate the outfitters working with them as well. And of course, expect that you'll have. Yeah, all for 2026. You'll have a little bit of time. Won't be sprung on you too short of notice. You'll have a little bit of time to get prepared for that. And also fit that into your schedule. So, yep. Yeah, and I think, I mean, obviously we're not eligible for this one, but we put in for, you know, whatever sheep tags you can apply for, you know, get in. It's shocking. The number of people who have gone on sheep hunts because they've won them is extremely high. Yeah. I mean, Adam's won a couple. And, you know, a lot of people that we know have won sheep tags this way. It's a good way to, you know, for not a lot to get another chance to go. Yeah, you can't win unless your name's in the hat. And so get your name in the hat, definitely.

And that's, like I say, a lot of guys are out hunting. We expect the dogs to be very good on this particular hunt giveaway. All right. Well, a little shout out to QU Ultralight Hunting Gear. We've used their stuff all summer long and all fall as well. Jana, we had QU on your sheep hunt. Jana had a desert sheep tag she finally drew after having 27 points. Applied here in Utah and got a little bit lucky. At some point you command the tag with as many points as you had, but not the case here. You got a little bit lucky. Drew, you know, a little bit early, but at the same time had quite a few names in the hat. And so kind of made your luck on that. But anyway, why don't we, I don't know, let's just start in on that story a little bit and kind of get your take, a woman's perspective. You want me to tell it, but you're really going to tell it.

What about the, somebody, there's got to be an accurate perspective. Like there's a woman's perspective and then there's how it really went down. Don't you think, John? I mean, so anybody who knows you and me is going to believe me. I don't lie. So I don't know why you're calling me a liar. I didn't call you a liar. Just your perspective versus my perspective. I heard that I was a liar. It's a little different. There is a couple of perspectives. There's mine, which is really close to accurate. There's yours. And then there's what really happened. Well, you know, your perspective, we made this easy 15 mile hike. I didn't think it was that hard. I didn't think it was hard. I loved it. We did sleep in the back of the truck. We did a few things. Yeah. It was good. So drawing the tag, what was, I guess let's just talk about your biggest fears when dealing with this hunt. Oh, yeah.

So I'm a rookie hunter and everybody would assume I wasn't because I married you. And I don't want to marry somebody that's going to compete with me. But Jason's not going to train a competitor. So we've been at this for over 20 years now. And this is my second hunt. Well, she's got a lot of points. You've been hunting a lot with the kids, with me. Yes, but never with a tag. Twice. This is my second hunt. So anyway, no. I raised the kids while you hunted. The kids' hunts, which are very important. We're getting in the way of their hunts and your hunts. Anyway, so yeah, so I've been gaining points for 27 years. And this is only my second hunt. So my biggest fear was that I wouldn't be able to get him in the scope and then stay on him while you zoom in and get accurate. Get set. And I, like I know how to shoot, but I haven't had any in the field experience.

Well, getting a dead rest, like working a bipod, putting something under the butt of the gun. All of that. All of that. Fast. In a timely fashion. Yes. And so right off when I drew the tag, I was like, Jason, I want to go to the range. I want to practice. I want to shoot. You know, the one tag that I hunted before and shot, I wasn't allowed to practice because he was sure if I ever practiced, I would flinch. And so. It's a fair point. I don't know that I remember these. I remember it. Either way, it's valid. I mean, it was 10 years ago, but I, and maybe not quite that many, but a long time ago. And that was seriously that, that was his, he's like, no, the gun's fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're going to be able to shoot. It's fine. You know what I mean? Well, but he never took me practicing with a 22-250. I was always with the kids trying to be the most amazing dad ever.

And you're an amazing dad. It's true. Anyway, so that's my biggest fear. My biggest fear was that I wouldn't be good at it. So I told him right off, like, I want to go to the range and I want to practice. And, and, you know, don't put me off. Like, I'm serious about this. It's fine if my, if it bucks, if it kicks, like, I just want to, I want to know what I'm shooting in and get used to getting it in the scope and zooming in and all that. And in true traditional fashion, he put me off until the day before the hunt.

I like that. We did that. It was done. Yeah. We did it. It was an amazing experience. It was the day before the hunt. He took me to the range. We set up. He's like, okay, see if you can zoom in. It was 750 yards out there to a target or whatever. See if you can get that in the scope and zoom in. And so, and so I did. And he's like, okay, go ahead and fire it. And so I did. And it was a dry fire. And he's like, okay, now we're going to put a shell in. We put a shell in. And he's like, okay, get back on there and fire it again. I'm like, okay. So I did. And he's like, okay, we're good. Let's go. And that was it. Well, she crushed it. That was it. That was my total training. We are going to leave on a high note. John, have you ever left the range on a low note? No. I mean, I totally agree. Is it hard to recover? It is. If you leave the range on a low note, it is.

Well, you're just unsure about that gun. Yeah. I was totally sure. It was bad. The gun has killed everything it's pointed at. I'm telling you. I wouldn't give up easy. I would not have left the range on a low note. So we could have practiced more than once. Like it would have been okay. We did. But no, he was not having it. So you shot one round. Man, I shot one round. That was, yes. Why do we have to be so very clear on all the details? Why do we have to be so clear? I just want you all to understand, you know? Well, it's perspective. From Jason's perspective. Box checked. Jason's always right. We did do it. Well, I'm just like, and we're not shooting a sheep that far. We're not going to do it. And so this is not going to be a problem. I just want to be comfortable. You know, when you're under pressure and it's time and you got all the adrenaline flowing, I just want it to feel natural.

I just want to lay down on the gun. And it doesn't feel natural unless you grew up killing coyotes. Which I'm willing to do, but he... Yeah. But I'm not willing to do on my own, I guess. I require you to go with me. And so, needless to say, that was the training. And now we're ready to go. We've got kidlets. We've got all kinds of stuff. Here we go. But I get it. Also, there's a pressure that changes the situation when there's a real animal there. Right. And there's that urgency. Yeah. Get it in the scope. Get it in the scope. And you can't replicate that. And you can't. Yeah. And when you're trying to be, you know, the world's best wife, like you can't disappoint Jason Carter. Yeah. Yeah. And not kill. Like, how embarrassing is that? You know? It was fine. It was you and I. It would not be hard on you. I know. Because I know. It would have been hard on him.

I just spent 14 days getting on this one opportunity. Yeah. So, you say no pressure, but there's so much pressure. How is it? You can't find the only animal at 100 yards. Yeah. I know. So, anyway. But, needless to say, you know, thankfully, the end story is good. So, we're out and everything's good. We're starting to crank. Yeah. So, the first day we went out, it was a Thursday morning and we went. And we were out by Lake Powell. And so, you know, beautiful, such a beautiful place to hunt. And we went up in the higher country and thought we'd just, you know, start checking things out and see what was going on. And we glassed up. We glassed all day. We glassed like one. Well, I think we glassed one ram. And he was like two miles away. He was so far away. And it was at the very end of the day. Probably a couple rams. Who knows? No, we didn't. One significant ram.

We saw him at the end of the day. This is how the hunters portray him. This is why hunters are liars. Because they, you know, we saw one ram. That's all. Okay. Again. You did skip, though. You did spend some time before the season also scouting and sleeping in the back of the truck. I think, you know. Yeah, so we did. We saw some pictures that got deleted really quick, I think, you know, in the text logs. Yeah. Oh, maybe. Yeah. I don't know. We did. We did some scouting before. But this was the first day of the hunt. It was just. No, it was just funny because, you know. Well, I was using. Yeah. And Jason's like, I probably should get permission to send that. Yeah. Jenna wasn't perfectly made up. Jenna's not woken up and stuff. You know, you get me looking like I'm hunting instead of like I'm going to work. But. And as a guy. I always get sensitive about that.

As a guy, we're all like, you guys, you look awesome. Yeah. I don't care. I'm proud of her. You know. Or kill her. Yeah. Yeah. My wife's the same way. And then it's like, why did you send that picture? Yeah. You know. It's hard to be a girl, you know. It is hard to be a girl. When you've got blonde eyelashes, you need your mascara or you look dead. And I look dead without mascara. So I'm like a little bit. But no, it's fine. It's all good. Girls without mascara smash coyotes. Hey, I smashed a sheep.

Good point. Girls with mascara smash sheep. That's right. That's right. Put on the mascara. Don't care about Kyle. Just give her the extra 10 seconds. All right. Anyway. So, yeah. So we just saw one ram that day and he was like two miles away. But he looked kind of heavy and looked kind of old. And we thought we ought to get a closer look at him. And so anyway, then Friday we went out and we had Josh Jensen, a good friend of ours from Nevada. He came out and hunted with us and we're super grateful for his willingness. He's so awesome. Yeah. So he came out to hunt and we sent him to look for that ram and see if he could find it and get a little closer and see what it really was. We were hitting a bunch of other country. Yeah. And so we, he spent the morning glassing that area and Jason and I were glassing some other country. And we saw nothing and he saw nothing.

And well, he, did he, he saw the ram, but he couldn't get any closer than we did. Yeah. Pretty much. So we went in, we went in on the ram. Like we got to get a good look at him because the heat waves and everything else, it's hard to judge sheep. And yeah, that was the next morning. That was Saturday morning when the kids came. Yeah. And so we went in and anyway, it was just one of those things where for some reason that day it was a north wind. And it was like, really? Like, wasn't really forecasted anyway. And little did we know, oh, we thought we could get away with it. No. We laid around and waited and waited and waited. All day, 90 degrees. The way they went down and got out from under us was like, didn't know there was an option to get out from under us without us knowing. And so, yeah, that was kind of a grind. Yeah. We sat there all day in the heat.

We hiked in, I don't know, several miles. Sat in the heat all day. We had the kids out on another point where they could look toward where we were hunting and see. And we were thinking they might see the ram. Josh might see the ram. We were right there with them. And then nobody saw anything. And toward the end of the day, Josh finally hiked out and went around to the bottom, drove in on the bottom and glassed up in underneath where we thought they were. And he's like, no, they're not there. So we just, it was like a wasted day. The whole day was focused on this ram and we saw nothing. And the kids saw nothing. That was the day we had Ashley and Sean. Yeah, they saw some rams, but not that one. Yeah. And, but it was, it was fun. The two of them came out and spent the Saturday.

They have school and work and whatnot and couldn't come for the whole week, but they got to spend Saturday with us. And so that's good. And, but we didn't see anything. Yeah. And then we went, I mean, we went to a lot of other parts, like clear, deep, way north. And, you know, got into where I had seen some sheep this summer, but nothing materialized. There was nothing there, you know, ground that out right before the hunt started and whatnot. So we didn't spend a lot of time there. But then we went on the other side of the unit. After we hunted on Saturday, we got home for church on Sunday. We went home and spent the weekend, the Sunday at home. And then Monday morning, you and I got up at 2 a.m. And we went to the far reaches of the unit. Yeah. And. It was wild. Yeah. The country's so big. It was huge. The country's wild. So much, so much to look at, so much to see.

And if you're, if you're a guy that, you know, and it's not my tag, I get it. But if you're a guy that wants to maximize the experience, you're constantly thinking about the entire area. Like you feel like, you feel like you've got to cover the whole thing. You know what I mean? And when the sheep start to rut in different parts of the unit and whatnot, you, you, you know, things are changing from what you've scouted in the summer. And so you feel like you kind of need to look at it all over again. Yeah. You know? See what's there. Well, we did.

We, I think we hiked 10 miles round trip that day. Yeah. We hiked way out. We glassed a ton of space, ton of area. We, I mean, we worked it over all day long and we saw three U's and a little ram. Is that all we saw? That's all we saw. I know. In all day. We, we came back to the truck. I was happy about that. I thought. Well, it was beautiful. Like the whole experience was great. We had a great time and it was beautiful place to be and it was awesome. But I'm just like, man, there are no sheep on this, in this part of the unit. There's nothing here. And we just hiked 10 miles and we got back to the truck. It was all but dark when we got back to the truck and we were thinking we were going to drive to another area and then stay the night. And we're like, oh, let's just crash right here. Like it's late. Let's just sleep here.

We'll get up in the morning and, and go to the new location or whatever. So, so we did and it was fun. We rolled out our canvas cutters in the back of Jason's truck and showered in a five gallon water bucket that we brought. Most amazing shower you could ever have. It is. After you've been out in 90 degrees all day long, hiking and sweating and you're so glad to have fresh water. You just can't believe that. It's so nice. How well I packed. I had a fiber of water. I'm not at all surprised. Jason's the most prepared guy ever. Like you think, you might think that you're going to get into a situation that you don't have the right equipment. I swear he'll pull it out from under the seat or under the truck mat or whatever. I mean, he, it's one of his great strengths. I like it. He is so prepared. It is so fun. I'm like, whoa, where does this come from? Or where did that come from?

What even made you think of it? And yeah, you're awesome that way. I'd go to the ends of the earth with him. He would be prepared. Anyway, we ate on the tailgate. Yeah. We had a little dinner and yeah, I went to bed and the weather was perfect. It was like 60 something all night long, light breeze. I mean, it was a beautiful night to be camping out. So anyway, we, we did that. We stayed the night and then early the next morning we got up and we, we drove on up the road. We were, we were, we were on a road kind of, then we hadn't really gone clear to the end. And so it was in the same area. And so we drove out to the end of that road and we were glassing and we're not seeing anything. We're not seeing anything. And then, and then I picked up a U on, on a big rock and I'm like, there's a U right there. So then we started watching cause you know, they're going to not be alone.

We never saw another round with her. But as we were looking over that area, we found like three more individual use separate all by themselves. So, you know, they have groups with them somewhere and we're like, okay, there's sheep here. We're just not seeing them. Chilling out. Yeah. But from the day before where we saw three use and a small ram and that was it. I was like, how are we seeing three or four use this morning in just the first hour and nothing else, you know? So they're there. And, but the day before we watched them lounge on the rocks for like six hours. Those things never moved. I'm like, they're the laziest critters on earth. But when they get up and go, it's hard to keep track of them. Then they go. So anyway, but anyway, we looked those over for a bit. We didn't see any rams with them, but we were confident like, okay, there's animals here.

Like maybe later in the season as the rut kicks in and whatnot, we'll come back to this area because there's definitely use here and, and there will be rams here. So we were leaving. We, we turned around and we head back down that road. And, and while we were glassing those, those use, we heard gunshots in the unit right across from us. Like we were kind of between units and we could hear gunshots. And so we turn around and head back down that road. And out of nowhere, we see these three use and another ram from the other unit running and they ran into our unit. It was obviously missed. It was obviously that they had shot probably at that ram and missed him. And he was a pretty good ram. I mean, he was a decent ram. He was nice. And we watched him a little bit and we talked about, we could shoot him. I mean, we were within a hundred yards of him and we watched the group of them, you

know, cross into our unit and then go down in the bottom and hang out. And we just, we watched him for a little bit. It was interesting. And we were like, well, you know, maybe, maybe toward the end of the season, if, if we don't find something we like better, we'd come back and hunt that ram and see if we can find him or others that will be there. So we let him go and, and headed on out and whatnot. And that was Monday. That was Tuesday morning that we did that. And then we had to be back in Cedar for Tuesday evening. So we headed home and, and spent the night in Cedar. And then Wednesday we got up again and headed back out to the unit. And we just went to kind of the center of the unit and just started looking at new, new country we hadn't looked at before. And, um, we were just glassing a lot of different area and looking for sheep and we were seeing

some, but nothing that really caught our eye. I actually saw quite a few. We did see one, an older ram. He came down off the top of a, he came down off the top of a cliff and we kind of watched him at the top. We saw him on the top and then all of a sudden he just came down the chute and we were like, no way. And at first we thought maybe it was just a U. And then as he started down the chute, we could tell, no, that's a ram. So then we got looking close at him when we thought he might be a good ram. He was old. You could tell he was older. And anyway, so we kind of were trying to glass him up and see what we could see. And we, we kind of moved in on him a little bit and, and ultimately we decided not to take him. He was really broomed back a lot. And so even though he was older and heavy, he was short, he was really short, but, but it was cool to watch him.

He came into a group of U's that was down in the bottom of that Canyon. So we watched him do that for a little, for a little bit. And then we moved on and, and just kept looking. We looked all day and we saw, we saw several rams that day, just smaller rams, stuff that we weren't really interested in. And then toward evening, it was late, getting close to dark. We saw a ram and three U's on the top of a cliff and we didn't get to glass them very long because they moved over the top and, and we missed out and didn't see them. But, um, that night we camped out again and cooked our little dinners on the little dry packed dinners. And that was fun. We did freeze dried dinners and slept, slept out that night too. And then decided that we better go back and look for that sheep in the morning. The different ram, not the broom ram, but the one that we saw at the end of the day,

the one that we saw right at dark. So we got up the next morning and we, and we headed back out and, and fortunately we found him right where we left him. Um, we were glassing a little bit and we saw you and we, and we didn't know, we didn't know if he was there or not, but pretty soon they just started coming over the top and he had a group like way more than the three we saw the night before. He had quite a group we used with him and he came down off the top and we watched him and we got a really good look at him. They rushed down to the green feed. Yeah. There was a little green feed down in the bottom of this little Canyon area and they rushed down there and we got a good look at him and we were like, man, he's nice, but he's probably, you know, he's not, he's not huge. And we guessed he was probably like seven and we thought it'd be better if he was eight.

You know, he was pretty. He was really pretty. We liked the confirmation of his horns and the way, and he just, he was, he had a good look, but we thought, I don't know, you know, we could keep hunting for 10 more days and maybe come up with something bigger, but would we be sad? Or 20. Yeah. Or would we be sad if we didn't? These are questions like, how long do you grind your wife out? Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like a man's grind. You know what I mean? Like how, how critical do you really get? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, we did what? 14 days in deer last year. Yeah. Oh yeah. I know. But the net result wasn't. I'm not a wimp. No, but we were after one deer and we didn't kill it. Yeah. We didn't kill it. We didn't kill it. And that was probably longer actually. I think it was like a 17 day grind or something. Yeah. It was a long hunt. It was fun. And so, yeah.

But anyway, but this one, we were like. Go ahead, guys. Yeah. We were having to struggle trying to decide. But it's true. You wonder about, you know, you wonder about like John and your wife or Cash and your wife. Like great gals, totally capable. You both, you've taken them hunting. But, you know, it's, we've got kids. Yeah, they're older kids, but there's other. Responsibilities. Responsibilities in life. We had other responsibilities weighing on us too. And I think some of the, like the experience. Trying to decide how much is so much. The experience was everything. Together weighs in on that. Oh, I'm just going to hold out for the, you know, a giant and it's fine. And if some of that experience goes into your decisions, I think. Well, in the unit, it's not like you're going to kill a bookhead. Yeah. Here. Yeah. So, you know, it's a good ram. So. Oh, it's a great ram. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway. So anyway, we left him. So we passed it at first. We left him and went on and we're looking. And then we sent pictures to our son and to Adam. And Adam's like, that's a good ram. I mean. And his client killed before a ram similar. That like his client had killed opening morning that was a ram similar to that one, you know. Nice ram. And we're like, maybe we should. And then my son, he's 23. And he's like. We're on Starlink. Yeah. Yeah. You should go kill that ram. Like, what are you waiting for? Are you stupid? Are you stupid? It's mom. This could be a real grind. Not that it's mom. He has no confidence. Yeah. Jeez. Come on. Anyway. No. What he was saying was like, you'd be sad if you didn't. You know, you'd be sad on the last day if you didn't kill. Right. If you didn't kill that sheep. So why would you wait till the last day? That was his point.

And I'm like, because that's what we do. You shouldn't just prolong it. That's what we do. Yeah. And he said that. And Sean's like, yeah, that's what you do. And then you kill nothing. And we're like, yeah, that's true too. We do that. Not going to kill nothing. Sean's after blood. Anyway. Sean's always after blood. He's awesome. He's fun. I like it. He is fun. He is fun. Anyway. So yeah. Sean kind of turned the tables for us. We're looking at each other saying, should we go back? Should we go back and kill that ram? And pretty soon we're like, yeah, we probably ought to. Let's go. Let's go do it. So anyway, we went back and we hiked up on this little knob and they were still feeding and we could see them feeding. But they were too far, too below us. Like we couldn't see him to shoot him where he was. He was too low. And I don't know.

We could see like his butt, but we couldn't really see his body and stuff. And so we just waited and watched. We knew they would come back up on that cliff and go back out the top. And so anyway, when they started moving, the youth started moving. Eventually they started moving back up the cliffs. And so when they started moving, you know, I just got on the gun and waited for him and waited. And pretty soon. Down on the power. Up on the power. Pretty soon. Well, he moved up on the rock where I could see him. And so then I had to get him in the scope. And yeah, just like just all my fears were coming to fruition. I'm I've got him. And all my fears were also coming. I mean, I was like, this is why I'm this is why I want to practice. And now here we are. And he's going to be frustrated. And anyway, so, yeah, I was up and down on the power. I mean, I've got him in the scope.

But then when I dial in, the scope goes black. And and and I'm not I'm not good at it. I haven't had any practice, you know. And so anyway, I just was working the scope and trying to get him right. And I finally I finally got him right. And he's in the scope. And I I zoomed it in and I'm ready. And I'm on the trigger. And, you know, Jason's always telling me, like, let the trigger surprise you. Like, just which my triggers will surprise you. Touch it super slow. Don't jerk. Don't pull. Just be really slow. So I'm on the trigger and I'm pulling and I'm waiting for it to surprise me. And the and the ram starts to turn. And I'm like, crap. And then it goes off. And I'm like, oh, man. I surprised you. We watched the scene. It surprised me. But my perspective is the Rams broadside for five minutes. It wasn't that long. That's mean of you. That's what it felt like.

It was like it was probably 60 seconds. But I know that's way too long. Hunters like to do it in three. But I'm not a hunter. 60 seconds. Probably. I'm a rookie. Anyway. 60 seconds. Whatever. I'll give you that. But it felt like five minutes. I mean, it might have been 10. It felt that way to me too. But I know it wasn't. It was unbelievable. I was just like. I was just like. How does the gun go off right when he turns? Like, how does this happen? Because I was trying to be so careful and do it just the way I was told to do it. Anyway. So it goes off. And we see him. He lurches to the side. And then he hunkers down. And oh. And I ejected the shell. And like I was trying to put another shell in. Because I'm like. I'm going to need to shoot again. And the casing jammed. So I'm like. Jason. Pull back far enough or something? Maybe. I don't know. Like I'm a rookie. I'm like. Jason. Jason.

It all comes back. Yeah. We didn't practice. We should have practiced more, you know. Ejecting the shell. But really. And so I'm trying to pull it. And literally. These are things that guys take for granted. Okay. That's not fair. Because I asked you to work through it with me. No, I know. I'm just saying. These are things that I'm thinking. We don't need to work on ejecting the shell. Not in a negative way. But. It's just. But it may not necessarily have been me. Because we tried to pull that back further. And we literally had to pry the shell out. Did you really? Yes. Wow. And so we're. Jason's prying the shell out. And then. And so then I put another one in. And he kind of hunkered down on the rock. Like right on the face of the rock. And we could see blood smear all over the face of the rock. So I knew it was a good. It was a good hit. But it hit him good.

But he didn't just drop like I hoped. Like he always hoped. Yeah. And so anyway. I get another shell in. And Jason wasn't back on his binoculars to watch me yet. When I let the second one go. Oh no. I saw it. And so you weren't in the binoculars. Because you were like. Didn't need to be. Where did he go? Didn't need to be. Oh rude. Rude. Anyway. So then he's like. So then he just disappeared. And he's like. Where did he go? Where did he go? And I said. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if the second shot hit him. I don't know where he went. Which I knew. Like. But I. But I also didn't want to rattle you. You know what I mean? Because the second shot had to be. Okay. This is the first admission.

Okay. Thanks for doing it here. Nice of you. I don't know. He said. I didn't. I don't know. I didn't see it. Did you see it? I said. I don't know. You know. Like I. I think I was on. What I meant was. I didn't get it on video. Because.

Wow. Wow. We were videoing. We were videoing. Okay. Okay. Well here's a little story about Jason. We've been out.

I like where this is going. We're out. We're out all day. We're. We've been. We've been working things over. We're on our way back to another part of the unit. How are you so well versed in this bad story? It's not. It's a. It's a good story. It's a good story. We're on our way back into the unit to. To glass another area for the evening. And he says. He says to me. Is this previous? Before? Yeah. Okay. Okay. I guess. He says. Well. Would you like me to stop and get you a little something? The convenience store? And I was like. No. Not really. He's like. Oh. Well. Don't you want a little something? Something. He needed a white monster. A little treat or something. I said. I'm like. Like. What do you have in mind? He's like. Well. I could get you a little ice cream or something. Okay. I don't eat sugar. You know. And like. It's not a new thing. I haven't eaten sugar for a long time.

Why not break the streak? Let's have fun. You know. And I'm like. What's wrong? Come on. A good treat. Are you not human? Let's have some sugar. I said to him. I said. I'm pretty. I'm good. I said. Would you like to stop and get a little something? Something? And he's like. Whoa. Whoa. I can use a. I can maybe use a monster before we go. I'm like. Okay. Okay. Now I know why we need to stop at the convenience store. Part of it. Part of that is. When times are tough. You know. Sometimes. You enjoy it. And the whole thing. You're just a little stressed. It's a once in a lifetime hunt. You know. You got. Jenna out there. You want it to be a great experience for her. So. Sometimes. Just. Having a white one. And once in a while. You just take a drink. And it's just. Everything's going to be okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? It soothes the soul. It does. It does. It's something. Familiar.

That's why it's white. That's why it's white. You know. It's okay. He could have just said. Hey. I'd like to stop and get a white monster. I mean. I'm not naive to the fact that he drinks them. Well. I am. Not in favor of it. Trying to be courteous. When he's on dialysis. He's going to regret it. If she gets an ice cream. I probably won't hear about the monster. You know what I mean? Pick it. Win win. That's picking your battles wisely. Right there. Oh yeah. Finally. Now it's just me and a white monster. And how bad they are for me.

Okay. I was trying to avoid that. But nevertheless. I did it. Here we are. Okay. We should get back to the sheep hunt. Let's do. Let's be done with it. Anyway. So the sheep disappears. We can't see him. We don't know. We don't know really what happened or where he's at. But he went up over the top. We're sure of that. Well. We watched all the ewes file out over the top. And so we. When a sheep goes uphill. Makes you nervous. Yeah. It does. Anything. Anything. And they go into places you can't go. Yeah. It's steep. It's like that. It's that steep sandstone stuff. And it's rolly. So there's dips and crevices in there. And anyway. So we went out on this area. And we hiked up this knob. And it was straight up. I mean Jason's looking at me saying do you think we can climb that. And I'm like yeah. I think we can climb it. I don't think we have a choice. We climb it.

So we hiked up this sandstone face. And we got up on top. And it kind of looked over into the area where we think he disappeared. And so we crept up to the edge. And yeah. He was laying right there in a depression on the top. And he was just. He was in a pool of blood. He was mortally hit. Just kind of need to finish him off. In a pool of blood. He was just laying there in a pool of blood. That's a great. Great shot. And so. Well it blew out the front shoulder. I mean. I'm trying to be nice. I know. I blew out the front shoulder. Ruined the cape. Go ahead. I mean. Got a hole in the cape. Two holes. Six inches. Round in diameter. No joke. Because it went down the side of him as he turned. Yeah. Some ripped. The bullet blows apart. And takes out the entire shoulder. Yeah. It was. It was not. I mean. I felt. And you don't do that without ripping the fine skin of a sheep.

You know what I mean? And I mean. Yeah. I'm like. That's what I'm saying. This was supposed to be a beautiful little. I tumble to the bottom. We take care of it. Pack it out. We celebrate. It was ugly. It was not that way. It was slightly. It wasn't ugly. No. But it wasn't pretty. Yeah. I felt bad. I don't want him suffering. I'm like. You know. I'm. Yeah. I mean. I'm not. It just happened. Overly tender hearted. But I mean. I'm realistic. But I'm tender hearted. So anyway. I was like. Okay. Let's get this. You know. I don't want him. I don't want him to sit there and bleed to death. Good looking. So. We just took a final shot. From. What. 100 yards. We were right. Right above him. And just. And yeah. And just. Put him out of his misery. So he didn't suffer long. But. But. I felt bad. That we blew out the shoulder. I wish. I wish it had been. A perfect shot. You know.

It was a dang good shot. Just. Under the circumstances. It was awesome. Turned out awesome. It was great. And he's pretty round. Packed him out. It was just. Jan and I. At that point. Just had. It was just a great experience. Yeah. It was. In some of the country we love the most. Like our family spends a lot of time in that country. Just. It was awesome. It was just. It was. It was awesome. Yeah. We had a great time. The whole experience was awesome. The whole experience was good. Start to finish. We loved it. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good memory. It was awesome. It ended well. And I could have had another week and have enjoyed the whole thing. Just FYI. But. We did have some other pressures that we were like. Yeah. We'd be sad if we didn't kill this one last day. Why would we wait? Yeah. Well. I mean. When things happen. But this was priority. And he's a good ram. He's a pretty ram.

It was priority. It's just. There's lots of worst case scenarios that run through your mind. Oh yeah. It's a lifetime hunt for your wife. For sure. It's not about me. Like. You know. A man's grind versus your wife and having a great experience. And everything matters. The weather matters. Oh yeah. I mean. Everything goes into your hunt. And the experience you have on your hunt. Whatever they are. Yeah. Yeah. Elk. Everything. Interactions with other people. You know. All of the things. They all come into play for your memory. Yeah. Yeah. And the experience. It was perfect. It was a beautiful place. The weather was unbelievably perfect. The temperatures couldn't have been nicer. Yeah. I mean. It was so nice. There was a lot of people. And the hiking. I loved to hike. There was a lot of people. Like. People helping other tag holders. And it was busy. Yeah. You know. It was very busy. Yeah.

But it was fun. But the far. I mean. We traveled the unit. And some places there was nobody. And some places there were a lot of people. Yeah. And we saw it all. So it was really fun. We had a great time. So. Anyway. Well when you talk about the rams. For those that haven't. You know. Gone into sheep country. Or from the east. Or whatnot. Haven't watched them. We're talking. Like. Zion National Park. Red Rock Cliffs. It's just. So beautiful. Gorgeous. And when you. When you're talking about the ram. Bailing off. You know. Down into the bottom of the canyon. It. It's unbelievable. When you see it. In person. For the first time. It's like. It. It doesn't seem possible. Well. There was places. The places they live. And they travel. Oh they run. Straight down. Straight off. It's crazy. There was some pretty cool stuff. So we watched a ram. Come off the top. And come down.

And you don't think you. It's physically. You're. Anybody. Or animal. Would be physically capable. Kind of a thing. Except for a lizard. Right. And he came and ran. Ran down off this thing. And we looked at it. And there's this little. White sheep trail. Coming off the red sandstone. That they all use. They all use it. Yeah. They all use it. It's probably just this little lip. Yeah. It's just a little something. But it's nothing for sheep. If their feet stick to it. You know. Yeah. But I mean. And you watch it. And you look at. And I'm like. Look at that channel. Like look at that little white. Sheep trail. Coming down off there. And forevermore. That'll be used. Yeah. Yeah. You know. It's just kind of cool. To learn that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. And so anyway. It was fun. They're cool animals. And I think if you're. I mean. Even if you're not into sheep.

Like that's something that you should be putting in for. You do it once or twice in your life. It's. It's just an unforgettable experience. It's a great experience. Well how do you get into sheep. Think about it. Like cash. How many sheep tags have you had? Zero. So. And Logan. How many sheep tags have you had? And my point. How do you get into them. Yeah. When the tags are so rare. Yeah. It goes back to John saying. 30 year olds. Unders should never have sheep tags. Yeah. I'm not eligible. According to John. Yeah. You're not eligible. The state skips you. Yeah. And so. Or should if they don't. Yeah. And so anyway. When you do. When you. You can't get into them. Unless you're guiding them. Or around them a little bit. And we're in some of that country. We see sheep pretty regular. Yeah. And so. Yeah. You kind of get into it. But it's. We knew Janice Hunt was coming someday. Yeah.

The way they issue the tags. And the point system. And whatnot. Like we knew. We'd start applying her early enough. In life. Like the year we were first married. Mm-hmm. And so we had enough. We knew that her day was coming. But then you know. We're getting older too. She's getting older. The kids are getting old. Like there's. You know. There's just life happens. Right. So. Are you going to wait for the absolute best tag. In the state. Are you going to have the most amazing experience. In a. In a unit that our family loves. Yeah. The country we love. You know what I mean. And for me. I'd rather have the experience. I want the memories. I want the time with. You know. Jason and the kids. And all that. That's. And it was. And it was a great room. Yeah. So. That's. More important to me. Than just having a book head. Or something like. Yeah. That's. Not the. The biggest. Thing for me.

It's the family time. It's the experience. It's. I love the outdoors. The nature. The hiking. And sleeping out. And all that. I love that. So are we going to have to edit some of our. Little bantering. Or are we okay. You and I. Are we good. I'm good. Are you good. I'm good. I mean. I don't want you to. You know. No. I'm really good. I just. I don't want you to.

No. I'm good. Did you say something. I shouldn't be good with. No. I know. It's all. It's all good. He's full of it. A lot of the time. But I. I'm difficult to offend.

Okay. Well I think. You say that you're. You're like a new hunter. But. I mean. It's not true. You probably got the most experience. Out of someone who's killed. Who's never. You know. Two things. Right. Oh yeah. And been around it so much. And so I think too. Like. Jason's like. Really. You deserve to have a good experience. Jenna wants to be. On my. Like our level. You know what I mean. But being. But you can't do that. And be a home mom and work. No. Also. And so. Yeah. And so when she. You know. She just wants perfection. She doesn't want to hold anybody up. She wants to kill it when she sees it. Yeah. She wants it to be exactly what we would want. You know. Yeah. Without having. A dozen hunts a year. On top of 30 plus years. You know what I'm saying. Well. And when you hunt with somebody. And. That's as. I don't know. As professional as Jason is. I mean.

You've done it your whole life. And you're really good at it. And so. And me. I haven't. I haven't really done it. I've been home taking care of the kids. And you know. Making. Making. That possible for you. And so. When I. When you go. There's kind of an expectation. That because you're so involved in hunting. That you would just be good at it. And. That's just not the case. But she's a good glasser. You can be all involved. And have never pulled the trigger. And you're still not good at making that scope work. Yeah. You know. And so. I wanted. She's a good glasser. I wanted to just be convenient. I wanted to be good at it. She's. Well. And I think. Never complained. She can hike. She hiked into Escalante with us. 20 something plus miles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love all of that. That's why I said. You have a lot of experience. But I think it's a good.

It's good for those of us who do hunt a lot. When we take somebody who hasn't pulled the trigger a lot. To remember that. Yeah. Like I took my kids spike hunting on Saturday. We were trying to do a go smash a spike. But. You know. We ended up. How'd that work out for you? Hiking their butts off. You know. Hash out that workout for you. Yeah. And. This is a great transition. We're just. Like I have to go over and over and over. Like. Okay. You know. You see that stump. Like practice. You know. Getting in. John. I'm impressed that you let him do it over and over and over. Geez. But not just. Not just one and done. Not me. John's the perfect husband. The perfect dad. John has trophies upon trophies. This is not true. John is very patient. He is. He is very patient. And he's a good teacher. He is. Jason's like. Aren't you reading my mind? I'm like. I've gotten pretty good at it.

I can read yours at this point. I can read yours. Oh no. You can't. You knew she wanted something at the gas station. Yes. That's right. You're not a well seasoned husband unless you learn how to read some minds. Yeah. Well I assure you. You don't read minds well. You're a good husband but you don't read minds. No. Anyway. That's enough there. We should move on before this gets ugly. No. But John you're right. You're taking a rookie hunter. You got to remember they're rookie hunters. Well and I think there's a lot of clients. There's outfitters or guides feel frustrated when a client can't find the animal in the scope. It happens all the time. And I told you about that. I said you know you wouldn't be the only one. There's a lot of guys that just struggle finding them in the scope. And she's like I don't want to be that. I don't want to be that. I don't want to be that guy. Yeah.

Like I want to find them. I don't. And it's just it is hard to. It comes from killing coyotes. Oh yeah. And I see a sagebrush where it's all the same. And you just jump out and smash them. Jump out and smash them from the time you're 12 years old. Yeah. Or you know 14, 15. And then when you start driving. Right Logan? I mean that's just killing jackrabbits. Yep. You guys did how many jackrabbits have you killed? I can't even. At least four. At least four per night. Greater than or equal to four. For sure. Or exceeding. Anyway. And so it just comes from that. And you just can't get the experience without killing hundreds of things. Yeah. And so anyway did a great job. Knew where you wanted to concentrate on. It wasn't physical fitness. It wasn't glassing. You have the best glass. You're very capable of all that. And so your point was in the heat of battle I want it to feel second nature.

And it's not going to feel second nature. And there was no getting around it. I'm like well we could have gone 10 times to the range. I think the same result would have happened. It was just a matter of. Situational. It's true. It's hard. It's got to be years. Yeah. Yeah. The anxiety of like the animal standing in front of you. And you know you're about to shoot it and kill it. Yeah. That adds a lot that just muscle memory can't compensate for. Yeah. And muscle memory helps a lot. Like knowing how everything works. Knowing where your eye position needs to be. That helps a lot. But the anxiety of it. The shakiness of it. And the poor guy that missed the ram. I mean he's probably a well seasoned hunter. And it's a once lifetime tag for him. You know. Yeah. And he misses the ram. And the ram and you come running in front of us. With their tongue's hanging out. And you're just like.

And your heart goes out to the guy. You know what I mean. Yeah. Because he had that experience. He missed the ram. And he feels like it was his one shot. And it's not. He probably killed a great ram. You know. But you feel. Well I think. I think. The feels. The feeling is hard. Yeah. Yeah. But when you. I don't know. I felt like I learned a lot just in this one time. About how to get it in the scope. Like at first you want to just move the gun to your eye. And I learned no. I got to move my body to the gun. In order to make that happen. And that. With practice you would get better at that. You know. You would get better at knowing. My body's got to move. It's not. You're not going to just tilt the gun. And have that work. And you got to make it happen. Like own the. Own the bi-plot. Yeah. Like own the backpack. Slap the backpack underneath the butt of the gun.

This isn't nicely dragging it. Being careful of the equipment. Yeah. We're killing this. So a little practice would be good. Yeah. But you'll get plenty more. You got points that guys would dream to have. I know. I dream to have points. You're going to die with points. Unfortunately. Geez. Are you prophesying? Dang. Are you hopeful? No. What do you mean? I don't plan on dying anytime soon. You can't just dictate when you're going to draw every tag in the West. I know. Even though you have 30 points or 25 point plus in many different areas and species doesn't mean you just get entitled to sheep tags or bison tags or moose tags. How many points do you have? Not as many as you in some places. I'm just wondering if you're going to die with any. No. No, I'm not. Die with memories, not points. That's right. I'm thinking that I'm not either.

And you're going to make that happen. It's like my kids. Dad, I want a dare tag this year. Okay. Where? I don't know. Maybe Arizona. Okay. Good luck. You got five points. I can draw you a tag, but it's not what I want to go with you on. Have fun. You do have options. So anyway, kind of fun. It's a good thing. Of course, Jan has been in the hunting business for years and years and years. Knows what it means. That's what I like. You know what a once in a lifetime tag is. How do you like that? This is a once in a lifetime experience. It probably won't ever happen again. Do you like those kind of excuses? Oh, I heard those. She's probably heard too many. Well, yeah. After the first few years of marriage, and he would say that, I would just look at him and say, that's such a lie. You guys are such liars. There's no such thing as a once in a lifetime experience.

You've had that same experience multiple times. But you just had one. You keep telling me it's a once in a lifetime experience. But you just had one. Yeah, but I'll never have that again. That's not even available again. Because it's once in a lifetime. There you go. Once in a lifetime. Yes, but you've had. That's my point. You've had. You used to tell me once in a lifetime hunt. See, she just admitted it. We're not once in a lifetime. She just admitted it. You had a once in a lifetime experience. Yeah, you've had the same experience multiple times, and you called it once in a lifetime. It was once in a lifetime for that state in that species. I'll never get an Arizona deer as a sheep tag again. How many Colorado deer have you hunted? It's not necessarily once in a lifetime experience. No, it's not. But I've been told it was.

It's a special experience that may not ever happen again. It's good. It's good that we've qualified what that means. Let's move along to spike hunting, which happens pretty regular. Sean, or John, excuse me, in cash. Yes. Had an amazing, both of you. Yeah, it was great. You experienced the spike hunting of Utah, which has actually turned into traditions. A joke? Okay. Family traditions for many families. Yes. Here in the state. Anyway, how'd that go down? I had, it was actually, my opening day was actually really entertaining, honestly. Was it? Oh, yeah. It was hilarious. Braxton, did the best of you? Did you smash, did you do a smash and grab in front of you? Oh, yeah. I totally let him know. It was so fun. Yeah. I had more fun watching his wife smash that spike than I would have. And it was, it was walking right to us. Jeez.

It was one of those where it was like, I was like, I'd have killed it if it was doing that. But where they pulled up. But if it wasn't his wife, would you have smashed it in front of him? Oh, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Just out of respect. Absolutely. Out of respect. Absolutely. No, I, I've had concern within myself in the last like year. Because, I don't know, I have dogs and whatever. And me and my wife are like eventually thinking about having kids and whatever. I'm like, I don't know if I'm getting a little more sensitive or whatever. And I was like, gosh, like sometimes I watch, like you see a video and it's like, something's kind of like not, not the, not the prettiest death. You know, something's a little ugly. Like, ah, kind of makes you feel bad a little bit. Like, went down like that. Like, gosh, am I getting soft? Like, am I not bloodthirsty anymore?

I don't know what age that happens at. I don't know. I haven't ate it yet. I have. You're obviously a few years on me. Trust me. I learned. I learned on Saturday. I'm proud of you. I'm soft. Yeah. You soften up a little bit. You do. But I learned that I'm still a little hard. Are you? She smashed that thing and I couldn't stop giggling. Like, it was the most entertaining thing I've ever seen. Because the bowl had a bellyache or what part of it? No, no. I did feel bad for that specific spike because I watched it go over a saddle. Yeah. And it got whacked over there, like, in the haunch and came back. And it was like, we're like, I swear there's blood on it. And it's just fine running. It's like forever away, running in. And she hits it. We're like, I don't know if he hit it there or not. We looked at the video and there was a little bit of blood there already.

But it was, like, just in the skin. It was not going to do anything. Not going to kill it at all. No. So she smashed it and it was, like, the most, it was, I thought it was hilarious. Like, it was awesome. Jeez. But there was, I mean, I was there looking for a big bull. And this bull got smashed in the bottom. Then that happens. I'm like, this is kind of like a circus and kind of a joke. Like, it's hilarious. But we just smashed a spiker here. We're going to throw it in and go. And we throw it in. We get back to the truck. And for the next, like, 30 minutes, it was all of a sudden, oh, there's three cows running out of there, running for their lives. There's three more running, like, everywhere. Just because of the hunting pressure. Yeah, from the pressure. So not only mid-rifle, trophy bull hunters, but spike hunters. Spike hunters, trophy bull, everything.

Like, stuff was just running everywhere. It was insane. But it was, I did learn that I was like, okay, I'm not as soft as I thought I was. We're good. You're still a man. Still a man. You'll get softer as it goes as the years go on. I was worried for a minute, but we're good. Have you ever seen Old Yeller? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Did you cry? Oh. I might have cried when I was 12.

But no. It was really fun, though. It was awesome. So you're still, no, spikeless. Spikeless. Spikeless. I might go try, but. There's been a couple legal spikes that I've specifically been after, but I've watched for, but just haven't seen them in a while. Legal, but cool. Yeah. Like cool spikes. Like kind of trophy spikes. Yeah. One is a six point on one side. It's pretty cool. He's technically a six by six, but it does not fork above the air. I love it. But I haven't seen him besides on a trail camera. Basal points. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty cool. But I'm not counting on him. He's probably in somebody's freezer. Maybe he's being driven up and down Panguitch. City of Panguitch right now. Could be. Yeah. In the back of a truck. Yeah. Sitting in the hot heat. Yeah. Yeah. Then my brother-in-law, my two brother-in-laws, I guess, they go have a big camp on Fish Lake. Awesome.

And they were smashing spikes. Were they? Right. Yeah. Awesome. My one brother-in-law grew up in Mexico. Okay. And he's as white as snow. You know. Is he? Big old white boy.

Really? Loves it and has been getting into it and stuff. He smashed a spike. It was stoked. Awesome. It was awesome. The one that I posted on my story. Yeah. It was pretty awesome. That's awesome. With a lever gun. Oh, I saw that one. I was like, I want to do it with a lever gun. I was like, you're going to do it with a .45 City. That's the dumbest thing ever. Wax the crap out of one. Really? Yeah. There you go. So funny. So funny. How about you, Logan? You guys spike hunt a little bit, don't you? Logan kills cows. No. I don't spike hunt anymore because my spike unit is the Southwest Desert and they don't have any elk to You kind of feel bad when you kill a spike, right? I was debating on whether or not to say this because I don't want to shame any spike hunters. I'd never do that. Kill them anywhere else.

But the elk I feel the worst about killing are all the spikes I've killed on the Southwest Desert. Yeah. Because I'm like, the elk density there is just atrocious. And granted, like, my three spikes mean nothing. But it's just when you go out there. But it's something. You're yours and you keep times by all the other. Yeah. And then you multiply that by 700. You're old dudes. Everybody. Everybody. And so, kill spikes, but I do feel elsewhere. But the way they look at it is I'm never going to draw anyway, so here we go. Yeah. Might as well. And it just, yeah. But no, I love smashing a spike. Yeah. Nothing like it. I would say I have the same feeling about, like, cows on beaver. Yeah. Like, there's just not a lot of cows. No, you'd feel bad. Yeah. You would feel bad. I could not get myself to kill a cow on beaver.

But, like, Fish Lake, like, probably not going to produce a giant bull again in the near future anyway. There's tons of elk. Kill them all. Kill all the spikes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know. So, there's places you should spike hunt, and then there's places you have. That's where they were spike hunting. A little more reverence for a spike. That's a good term, reverence on it. I like that. Every elk is sacred in some places. Exactly. They are. It's true. Could you believe there's people that spike hunt Southwest Desert North? It's just crazy. It's insane. First of all, I don't know where they find them. If you want to challenge. There's four spikes. There is. We saw four. Yeah. There's probably four. That's probably all of them on the whole unit. But there's dudes out doing it. And then they go extinct. And then, yeah. I was out there, what, a year or two, chucker hunting.

I was like, anyway, there's a spike hunt. I'm like, leave. Get out of here, little guy. You're not invited. I wish I had a beanbag gun to teach you a lesson. Rubber bullets. Get out of here. Anyway, so, John, anything to add on the spike? No, no. It's just, it's fun, I think, you know, to get kids out in the field and doing it. Experience. One family friend that, you know, took for the first time. I always think, like, okay, we always end up hiking more than I think. Like, and getting to the places, like, sometimes we get off the trail and it's really brutal. It's like you're bushwhacking, you know. And I think, they're never going to want to come back, you know. And then we get, you know, we get done. And even though we had, we didn't see any, well, we saw elk, but nothing came close and no spikes. And they were still stoked at the end. And I'm like, all right, this is cool. It is cool.

It's good. It is cool. Something to be said for being out and about. Yeah, it's fun. Tags, just tags are hard to come by. So, if we're going to do it, you know. You learn things when you're out anyway. You're going to feed the family for a minute. Like, we've been smashing some antelope. Just saying. Just a little preface to maybe another episode. That's a pretty good number on that some. What do they feed, Janet? They feed, what, half a person for about half a day? Oh, they're so little. They're so small.

Yeah, they're small. Anyway, but, hey, somebody's got to do it. I'd trade it for a spike elk. Yeah, I'm sure. Janet thinks they're not edible, so we've been making them into summer sausages. Oh, I don't know. First one we turned into roasts. I think I can do something with it in the crock pot, maybe. It'll be interesting. I think it'll be the best roast we've ever had. No, it won't be. No, but we will eat it. But, anyway. Definitely had better roasts. All right. Well, I'd like to remind everybody about the Hunt Expo in February coming up. I mean, it's time to get your hotel reservations. Did we get ours? Yeah. Yeah, we did. I talked to Chris Carling, who helps put that show on, and he said that rooms are going quick. So if you want to be near the Expo Center, you've got to get on it really fast. If you go to huntexpo.com, there's a page on hotel rooms and whatnot.

So just click and make your reservations. The cool thing on that is you can make a reservation. They let you cancel. Yeah. If you're like a week out or something, I mean. Well, because they can sell it for double. Oh, yeah. So busy. So get a reservation, even if you're unsure that you're going to go or not. But it's a great time. We're going to be there, and we're going to have a booth. We're selling optics like crazy and love seeing everybody there. I think it's just become, you know, I think the show to go to in the West. Absolutely. So huntexpo.com on that. Nice. We'll be there. Looking forward to seeing everybody. Of course, we like to share all the stories and meet everybody. And it's just an awesome time. You can't go there and not learn something. That's kind of the way I judge some of these things. You've got to choose what you do in life, you know.

And go to places you're going to learn something. Or be affiliated with companies you're going to learn something from. Or that are good companies backing what you're going to do. Or support organizations that are doing good things. That's right. Yeah. So anyway, I also want to thank Outdoor Edge Knives. They've got the new Razor A-PX system, the Advanced Performance Knife System. Just a revolutionary hunting knife featuring in-handle blade storage with the ability to remove the scales for ultra-lightweight knife. Adventure game with the Razor A-PX. Anyway, awesome. Just an awesome knife. Next level ability to adapt this knife to super lightweight conditions. It's very comfortable in your hand and performs flawlessly. We had an antelope kill and a deer kill the past two weeks. If you care about the cape of your animal, get one of the Zip Pros. Oh, it makes it so nice.

John, I think you've used one, right? The Zip Pro? Yeah. Is it like a zipper? Is it zip right up? It is awesome. But, like, so here's funny. I did this whole video on how to use it and everything, and we couldn't post it because it got floored, you know? Immediately. Social media does not, like, you know. And it wasn't even gory. It wasn't that gory. It was just how to field dress an animal, you know? So, anyway, we had to take it down. I wonder if the – isn't Trump's social media, like, true social? Yeah. I wonder if that would allow it. I don't know. I'll bet you. You can try that. You can do stuff like that on Twitter or X. Yeah. Elon Musk's Twitter. Of course. You can do anything on it. I'll bet you could do – yeah, true social and X, but – Yeah. I don't even think about – I mean, do we need another social media app on our phones? It's really hard. Yeah. It's hard, right?

Arguably, we need none, but, yeah. Really? Social media is bad for you. You could do without social media? I think it's terrible for you. I've said this many times. How come you indulge? If it wasn't a large part of my job to be on social media, I would have deleted years ago. Come on. You would have been years ago. I'm sure if you did that, you would have no dates. No dates. Does dating apps count as social media? Wait. How can you have more – similar. How can you have none when you already have none? Oh, good point. No dates is no dates. No dates. No dates. Whether he's on social or not. If Tinder won't work for you, I mean – You're up a river without a panel, buddy. Who of you really knows what I got? Jan is telling me to cut it. I'm like, come on. We're the hosts. This is good stuff right here. This is what we do. Is it a real podcast if Logan doesn't get harassed?

Usually the Logan harassment's at the beginning, so we bided our time for a long time. Yeah. I had to bite my tongue a lot. Logan, we've got to go into your experiences at some point. You had quite a month, really. Yeah. A lot of experiences with your dad. Yeah. It was an awesome long month, but yeah. Learned a lot. Yeah. Learned a lot about hard hunting. And hunting hard. To defend Jason a little bit. Hard hunting or hunting hard? Both. To defend Jason a little bit, from our camp, there's a little grocery store about 20, 25 minutes from our camp trailer. And as the hunt drug on and the deer got harder to find, the trips to the grocery store to buy an ice cream sandwich got more frequent midday. Yes. There's something about it. Something tells you it's going to be okay in between those two pieces of cookie. There's something about it. It was like, all right, just chill out.

Let's have something familiar and tasty. You know what I mean? I think it's one of those things that hunters can do because they control their own lives. You know, if you're a mom, you don't ever get that break. You don't get to go decide to have an ice cream sandwich and take a break. It is definitely time to end the podcast. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. If you're a mom, you'll have the hardest job in the world. While you're having ice cream sandwiches. Wait. There's not a mom that I don't know that doesn't have a stash somewhere. That's true. Whether it's all natural, dark chocolate, or whatever. Trust me. Trust me. There's some squares somewhere. There might be. Jenna. Jenna. No, no. Trust me. Jenna, do you not have chocolate in the drawer? No. Do you not have chocolate in the drawer? Really? No, because I have bloodhounds in my house. She has chocolate in our room in a drawer.

And the kids high grade it. I don't even eat it. She stashes some in other places, too. Above the toaster. And the kids take it. Kids take it. A mom just needs to have some time. Anyway. I do not. I'm going to make it through. I do not have sugar. I don't ingest sugar. But I have sugar stashed in multiple places. I'm sorry about bringing it up. Okay. We should really talk about that. This podcast is just getting good. Jason and I decide we're not having treats. You know, like, he's going to do better, and I'm going to do better, and we're going to do better. Sundays don't count. You know? Sundays don't count. It's cheat day. It doesn't matter what day of the week it is, I'm telling you. It doesn't matter what. If he's home in an evening and doesn't have to be running back and forth. Which is rare. It's sort of rare. Anyway. Almost inevitably, he's like, well, shall we have a little treat?

And I'm like, who's we? She's going to forget how to cook. I'm like, who's we? We're dang near empty nesters. She's going to forget how to cook and make stuff. Well, do you want to make a no-bake cookie? I mean, ask my kids. Who doesn't like no-bakes? We have no-bakes every week. You're an American. I mean, you are not a red-blooded Republican. You don't like no-bakes.

I'm done with this podcast. I'm grateful they're quick to make. You did a great job. We had an amazing experience. Cash, John, thanks for your contributions. Logan, you too. Thanks for backing us up on having a little something-something once in a while. I'm honestly sorry I brought it up at this point, but glad we got it all out in the open. Hey, and today, Logan turned 21. Happy birthday! 21. Plus or minus 4. Are we going to sing it? Let's sing it. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Logan. Boogie bear! Happy birthday to you! All right. We're done. We're done. All right.

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