Disclaimer: this podcast has been transcribed from the original audio and likely contains errors. This transcription does not reflect the views and opinions of Epic Outdoors LLC. Please consult the original audio with any concerns.

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Freaking stud. Heavy, big old I guarded.

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And the wind was just, the wind was blowing so hard. There were pine cones just shooting across the canyon. It’s critical at that gun’s level so you can hold the right wind.

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Anything to do with Western Mid Game?

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody. Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. In these episodes, we sit down with some of the leaders in the hunting industry and extract valuable information, ideas that will help you become more educated and a successful hunter. Today we’ve got a special guest. We’ve got Todd Shawley of Red Rock Precision. He’s an awesome guy. I’ve known him for a lot of years and they produced some of the finest rifles we’ve ever seen. We’ve used them quite extensively. Adam Bronson within the Epic Outdoors team, as has used them with all of his clients and a lot of his personal kills and, and they’re killing everything from, from zero to a thousand yards with them and could probably even do further if, if he wanted to. So nothing but respect for these guys, known ’em for a long, long time. They’re very serious hunters. They live here in Utah, which maybe I’m a little bit biased, but when you make good products, you make good products. So anyway, welcome Todd.

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Good to be here. Thank you.

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You betcha. We really appreciate you spending a little time with us and our listeners. So give us a little bit of your history and a little bit of background.

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Well, I, you know, grew up in a little town of un at the mouth Weaver Canyon there, and lived there my whole entire life. I still lived there and it was a small little farming community and I was able to go out and trap and hunt and do all those things just as a young boy. And, and it’s a little different now, but that’s,

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It’s a little different

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Where I grew up and what I, what I did.

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Awesome. And so give me a little bit of your hunting background or, or what you did just, you know, prior to, you know, to working and developing Red Rock.

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Well, you know, my dad introduced me to hunting at a young age and, you know, we went down to Beaver every year and he always bow hunted and I tagged along and Yep. And so, you know, that’s just kinda what I’ve done. And, and over the years I’ve just kind of done my own thing. He passed away at a young age and so just have been hunting with my boys and, and doing things with them, and that’s what I do.

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So in regards to the rifles, have you always been a gun? Was it something you just kind of became interested in long range and needed better equipment, or, or how did this evolve?

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You know, I was an archery guy at first. I mean, that’s all I did was bow hunt for, you know, from, from the time I was married at 20 to about 27, 28 years old, all I did was archery hunt. That’s all I did. I I, I would shoot my bow every morning and every night before I went to work. And, and I don’t know if I got tired of that, but it, I just wanted a change. Yeah. And, and Kurt, my partner, he kind of moved into my, my neighborhood and he liked to shoot guns and I liked to shoot guns and kind of how we got introduced to this and we, we started going every Saturday we’d take our guns and we’d go out to over by Woodruff and we’d set up our own targets and we’d just, we’d just shoot. And that’s kind of how it started. And

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So you guys developed a, a strong friendship? We did, yeah. And then just, is he, what, what are some of his talents? Did he, was he, did he bring some of the, you know, different manufacturing pieces together or how did this, how did this evolve into this?

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Yeah, you know, we were both a lot the same. You know, he loved to hunt and he loved guns, and I loved guns and, and Kurt’s really good with numbers. That’s, that’s what he’s really good at. He’s, you know, he’s our machinist and he’s, he’s a very, very technical guy.

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Well, I know when I’ve got a new gun coming from you guys and can’t wait to get it, of course I’m, I’m a fan of new guns. I just can’t, can’t get my hands on enough guns. But he, he went over things with me and said, I, you know, I’m personally building this rifle. And, and I think that’s what you guys do. Yeah. Is you guys handle each gun specifically.

00:04:01:29 –> 00:04:12:24
You know, we, we only build 150 guns a year. Yeah. But the 150 guns that we build, they’re perfect. Yeah. Or they don’t go out, you know, I mean, some of these, some of these guys are building five, 600, a thousand rifles a year.

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That’s absolutely right. So tell us about the early days of Red Rock. Like how have things changed since you, since you started this?

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You remember, I

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Remember I was in your basement, or his basement. I can’t even remember which

00:04:25:10 –> 00:04:32:13
Basement I was in. Yeah, no. He was in his basement. But I, what I remember is the first, the first time we came down to Cedar, Cedar City. Yeah. We brought those guns down there. Yes. Do you remember that? Yeah.

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I totally remember.

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And, and, and I knew you guys weren’t impressed with those guns. I mean, they shot good. Well, you know, but No, they

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Shot awesome, but they were heavy.

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They were heavy.

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They were heavy. And, and not that you can’t pack a few extra pounds, but for some reason, I mean, to throw a little more p weight in my backpack, no, you know, doesn’t seem like a lot. But when you’re actually holding a gun down to your side and it’s, you know, 10 or 11 pounds versus seven, it’s quite a difference.

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Absolutely. No, and we, you know, we, we listened to you guys Yeah. And, and you told us your thoughts and Yeah. Instead of taking that personal, we, we changed. Yeah. I mean, you saw our guns in our booth yesterday. They’re amazing. They’re totally different.

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They’re made seven and a half pounds with the skull. Yeah, yeah. Amazing rifles.

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So, you know, instead of being stubborn or, you know, saying, Hey, we don’t want anything to do with it. And we, we did what, what the people want. Yeah. And, and guys want a lighter rifle. They want a good rifle, but they want a

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Lighter. And so you would say like, that’s the major change you’ve seen is, is a, we had this product and then we’ve adapted and building products that people want. Now there’s still somebody that wants that 10 or 11 pound rifle, a bench rest shooter. There is somebody that’s not concerned about weight. Yeah. And, and I like a heavy rifle. I do like sitting behind a 10 or 1112 pound gun. It’s something about it. And you feel like it, you feel like it’s more accurate. You just feel solid.

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Well, they are. I mean, you know, and, and guys will ask us why, why a heavy gun? I mean, and, and if you watch the show American Sniper, Chris, Chris Kyle Yeah. That gun’s, that gun’s 23 pounds, you know what I mean? But there’s a reason why it’s 23 pounds. Yeah, yeah. You know, the heavier guns are usually more accurate, but you can still have a lightweight Right. You know, a seven and a half pound rifle that, that shoots really, really good. Yep.

00:06:06:10 –> 00:06:14:00
And so what, what would you say are Red Rock strengths? Like what, what do you guys specialize in? What, why should, why would somebody choose a Red Rock over something else?

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What we do is totally different than everybody else. When, when we build a rifle specific for a guy, the ammunition specific for that rifle. So that guy, that guy is getting his own ammunition Yeah. With his gun. So we’ll take that rifle out, we’ll break it in, and then we work up a load specific for that gun. Yeah. And we fine tune it to get it to where we want it. Yep. And we just, we just keep track of that, that serial number and the guy’s name and guys call us up every day, all week just saying, this is so and so, my serial number this And yes, we load ’em up, ammo and send it.

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Yes. You know, I do like that, you know, a lot of companies don’t wanna deal with building ammo. I, I don’t know if there’s some legal things with it or some liability, but, but a lot of companies want to give the rifle and then not ever see it again. Yeah.

00:06:55:29 –> 00:07:10:05
Or you know, some of these bigger companies that are selling a lot of rifles, they, they ship out the same ammo with every single gun. Yeah. So, so obviously, you know, if you got 10 guns, one of those, one of those ten’s gonna shoot better than the other nine. Yes. It’s just, just gonna happen.

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But if you worked up a load with each specific gun and that, and that gun had its own recipe, maybe all 10 could shoot the same. Absolutely. That’s, that’s your point for sure. Okay. Alright. Awesome. Well, in, in your opinion, you know, and you’ve dealt with this a lot, I don’t know anybody that would deal with it more than you and your partner obviously, but, you know, what are the most ior important factors in accurate shooting? Like what are some of the most important factors that, that, that affect the accuracy of long range shooting?

00:07:40:12 –> 00:07:57:10
Well, you know, you gotta have, you gotta have an accurate rifle to start with. And it’s like anything else you gotta practice. Yeah. You know, but as far as components, you know, your stock and your barrel and all those things, all that goes into that. It factors into that. Yeah. So it’s, and, and guys just need to practice. Yeah.

00:07:57:11 –> 00:08:35:01
You know, you know, I, I think you’re a hundred percent right. They do, they do need to practice. But, but you know, one, one of the things I’ve found with taking clients over the years and and whatnot is, is they just don’t pay attention to the little things. It’s one thing to go out and have a lead sled or have all these sandbags and different things, but when you’re in the field, you don’t have that. And so what I try to do is like, take a Harris bipod, which is, which is my favorite, I don’t know. And you, you might be able to enlighten us ’cause you’ve done a lot. I know there’s a lot of bipods out there, but, but I’m using a Harrison and is to support the front and to support the back. So, you know, it’s one thing to support the front and then snuggle in on it and not have support, but you’re bringing it into your shoulder.

00:08:35:03 –> 00:09:27:06
It’s another thing to put a backpack or something under the back too, you know, as if you were at the range. Yeah. And then bring it into your shoulder and just breathe really tight with it and be solid. So if you were to let go of it, it would still be on your target. Right. I find, you know, and I don’t know, you know, about you guys and, and I know you’ve dealt with a lot of different shooters coming through the course and shooting your range and whatnot, but, but I find that to be, you know, making sure the gun’s level to go through all these steps and it’s just kind of, it needs to become natural. It’s one thing to, you know, pull the trigger a thousand times. But it’s another thing to think, okay, I’ve got the gun in the front’s supported the back’s, supported it’s level, it’s into my shoulder, it’s level. I check that two or three times and then just squeeze it. And, and maybe the level, you know, is, is more important on a redle where, you know, at the bottom of the scope that if it’s tilt candid, one side or the other, your shot’s gonna be off a lot more. Sure. You

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Know, where where that, if you don’t have the gun level where that will really hurt you as if, you know, let’s say you’re gonna take an 800 yard shot at an antelope or something out in the desert and the wind’s blowing 10 miles an hour. It’s critical at that gun’s level so you can hold the right wind that, that’s where guys, they don’t even think about those things.

00:09:42:18 –> 00:10:20:01
Yeah. They don’t even think about it. And when you’re out, out antelope punting, I mean, there’s wind, there’s wind out there like southern Wyoming. I mean, you know, wherever there’s a, you know, you’re gonna find wind out in that wide open country. So anyway. Well, I know you guys have done a great job. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve experienced your, your facilities and, and seen what you guys do and the care that you put into it. And I know, you know, I mean, there’s just nobody better in in our industry for what we’re doing, but how do you feel a hunter can be more prepared to make a shot under pressure, whether it’s a technical shot or a quick high pressure moment. Like what do you think a guy could do to

00:10:20:15 –> 00:10:57:24
Help that? Well, you know what, at, at the gun range we used to shoot at, I would see guys about, I don’t know, the 1st of September, all of a sudden guys would start showing up to the range and they’re setting up their guns on the benches and they would cite their guns in and then they’d say, well, I’m ready to go. You know, that was it. They’re just sighting a minute. The range, you know, you gotta go out, you know, me and Kurt, we’ll go out, we’ll get in the mountains, we’ll shoot downhill, we’ll shoot uphill. It’s one thing to shoot off of a, a real sturdy cement bench with a nice rest. You gotta get out in hunting situations and lay down and shoot prone and, and do all those things.

00:10:58:09 –> 00:11:56:28
You know, what I felt has helped me over the years is just shooting a lot of coyotes. Yeah. I know. It doesn’t. Yeah. Or, or shooting at ’em, you know, not a lot of people. Yeah. I mean, it’s tough to kill a coyote. They do have a, you know, a small body under all that fur, but, but just getting out of the truck, getting down on the ground and making a shot wherever the coyote is, you gotta arrange ’em quick or whatever, and go ahead and use your 30 caliber rifle to do that. Like absolutely. That’s practice. You know what I mean? Yeah. And just being out in the hills and, and, and doing that. And it may be even a jackrabbit at 400 yards or 300 or whatever, but just, just just that little bit of practice. It’s a lot of practice. There’s a lot more going into it than a guy might think anyway. Tell, what do you think, what’s your opinion like turrets versus radicals? I know, and I’m of the opinion, every system works there, there is every system does work, but from what I’ve found, but like, there’s pluses and minuses and, and just wanted kind of your opinion on that and then what, what you guys like. Well,

00:11:56:28 –> 00:12:19:24
We, we use the turret system, you know, I mean it’s, you know, if you look at your military, you know, they, everything they use is clicks. M o a, you know, and that’s, that’s really the most precise you can get. But there’s guys like you, you like the radical system and the holdover, and you practice with that and you’re efficient with it. Yeah. So my opinion on that is it’s, it’s whatever you practice with, with and what you’re comfortable with.

00:12:20:07 –> 00:12:34:00
Yeah. And I, and I agree with you, what I’ve had, some guys have said, well, I’m not sure I like the, the turrets because, you know, it’s mechanical, mechanical things fail. Right. And you have some scopes that don’t have the stop or whatever, so you end up rolling it over. And

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I’ve seen that happen a lot.

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And that’ll affect somebody. Yeah. You know, on a 30 inch buck, it would crush me.

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It happened to my son last year in, in Wyoming. I had it. I, I had it on zero, but it was around once.

00:12:45:20 –> 00:12:45:29

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And how

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Do you stop, how do you, how do you avoid that? Is there, is there certain scopes that won’t let you do that? Tell me about that. No,

00:12:53:12 –> 00:13:17:16
They’ll all do that. You just, you, it was just, it was my fault. It was my rifle. So it, but it was all my fault, you know, and he’s, he’s shooting and this deer’s not even moving, you know, and it’s 185 inch deer. It’s, it’s last day in Wyoming, it’s a snowstorm. And, and deer runs off and I grab the gun and I winded it and I winded it again. He was probably shooting 20, 30 feet over that deer. So it was dad’s

00:13:17:16 –> 00:13:24:05
Fault, you know? Well, so, geez, I don’t know if I could get over that on a 200 inch deer. I just Yeah. Wanna shoot myself. I guess I know

00:13:24:05 –> 00:13:24:16
It. Yeah.

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00:13:25:15 –> 00:13:27:02
Yeah. No, it was, that can happen.

00:13:27:08 –> 00:13:50:14
But you know what else can happen? And I found this in with the les, is the, the les come in at different yardages depending on the power they do. And so, you know, like when you’re, when you’re in tight situations, I turn the power down and, and you know, if we’re going through, especially after we’ve shot a buck and we’re going up to him, I turn the power down. But, but you forget to turn that power back up if you ever turn it down. Yeah. Or it gets,

00:13:51:01 –> 00:13:55:01
I bumped your I’ve truck. I done that before too. Did I did that in the early years, did that same thing. Yeah.

00:13:55:02 –> 00:14:41:24
And your yardage is off and you’re gonna miss the deer. Yeah. So there’s a little, there’s plus and minuses on both of em. I found too, you know, the les are different depending on the speed of the bullet and the ballistic coefficient and the weight and all of these factors. And so, you know, you’ll run your computer program and I, I usually, I’ve used it like say I’m using a Swarovski scope, they’ve got an app, and then I’ll screenshot the app, put it on my screen shaver, put it on my lock screen, and that’s the, you know, that is the particular yardage for that redle at the certain elevation, and I’m guessing an average temperature. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it’s like you said, it’s not an exact science. Like, like you could, you could be a lot more, or, or a slight more exacting on a, and I totally understand that. Where, where

00:14:41:24 –> 00:15:00:10
The holdover has its weakness and, and you, I don’t shoot one, so you tell me. But where, where we see guys really struggle with those is I, I was with a guy that was shooting at a deer in Colorado and it was like 39 degrees uphill. Yeah. And it, and he was way, way off. He was just holding with that. Yeah. So I don’t know how you calculate that.

00:15:00:10 –> 00:15:38:16
Well, a lot of it is just, well, you know, for me it’s those angle compensating range finders. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then two I, and I’m old school, but I, so, and it’s kind of odd, but, but I have an app on my phone with the level, it’s a level app. Yeah. And I’ll run it down the barrel and that’ll tell me a 15 degree angle, 20 degree angle. And I’ve got an angle chart taped to my scope in the, in the, in the event that, you know, something failed on my rangefinder, whatnot. But, but you’re right. I mean, you’re shooting up or downhill, you know, either way you’re gonna have a different yardage. Yeah. And you need to know that yardage you do, whether you’re dialing or, or, or you’ve got radicals. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do.

00:15:38:25 –> 00:16:43:07
And so anyway, both all systems work. You know, they do work. I, I have used in the past, like the Zeiss Rapid Z 800 radical, and I’ll actually, you know, hope that it’s accurate, but I, but I will run a ballistic and match that bullet speed, like a 180 Aon going 3,100 feet a second, 30 caliber comes in perfect on 5,000 feet in elevation. All of those les match up perfectly all the way down to eight. So eight’s 800, and then it’s got quarter hashes. Well that’s good for my kids. So they’re shooting 500 yards. Hey, you know, use the five, you know what I mean? Right. I do. But I’m gonna use, I’m gonna use the turrets. I’m gonna, I’m gonna work on the turrets. I, it’d be nice for clients, myself and kids to dial, have, you know, basically use one main cross hair Right. And know that it’s ready. Yeah. You know, and, and it can be a little more exacting. So I’m kind of excited to get into that. I’ve just had a little bit of an issue with the size of the turret, you know, and they’re hanging up on your pack and they dial and mess. You know what I mean? Yeah. We

00:16:43:07 –> 00:16:43:23
Hear that all the

00:16:43:23 –> 00:16:47:26
Time. And so maybe do they, do they make small, you know, low profile?

00:16:47:26 –> 00:17:13:02
Well, you know, like the swarski you was talking about, it’s a low profile turret, is it? Yeah. So, and you know, the scopes, you know, like the night force, that’s a really big bulky tor turret. Yes. And you know, the Husk Ma that we use it, it’s not real big. It’s a three quarter inch turret, you know? So, but, you know, and the other thing that, that we hear that, you know, guys might wanna know is we’ve had guys put those guns in, in scabbards and stuff with horses, and there’s been some problems with that.

00:17:13:08 –> 00:17:27:00
That makes it a little bit of a problem. Yeah, it does. Well, and so how, when a guy comes to you, will you use any scope? Or do you, you know, you probably like the husk ma, you deal in the husk mob Yeah. But if he wanted Roski, what would you, would you do it for him?

00:17:27:07 –> 00:17:37:14
Absolutely. We do it all the time. Okay. You know what, I, me and you talked about that yesterday. So it’s what we want the customer to have what they want. Okay. You know, and if a guy, we’ve had guys that wanna put a vortex on or, or Zeiss or

00:17:37:18 –> 00:18:01:19
Whatever, and you’re fine with that. Yeah, absolutely. Do you, so having said that, there’s probably some scopes you feel like are maybe slightly more accurate than others. And you don’t have to mention it on here, but it, you know, it, it is a reflection on maybe your gun. So like, let’s say it can be, let’s say you threw a, the cheapest, you know, a Simmons on there or something, and you were shooting 800 yards, it might, you might gas a little bit because you don’t want it to be a reflection on your gun.

00:18:01:24 –> 00:18:03:19
It’s probably not gonna work. Okay. You know?

00:18:03:23 –> 00:18:05:07
But let’s just be honest. Yeah. Be honest.

00:18:05:12 –> 00:18:06:05
Yeah. For sure.

00:18:06:13 –> 00:18:13:17
It’s probably not gonna work. And so, yeah, I think I, I mean, even though you will use everything you do make recommendations. Yeah.

00:18:13:23 –> 00:18:19:20
I just think if a guy’s gonna spend six or seven or $8,000 on a gun Yeah. He’s not gonna put a cheap scope on

00:18:19:20 –> 00:18:20:26
It. I, I understand that. You know what I

00:18:20:26 –> 00:18:22:24
Mean? I understand that. So, so we, we But

00:18:22:24 –> 00:18:25:00
You’ve, you probably hear of everything, you know, I’ve heard of.

00:18:25:00 –> 00:18:26:06
I’ve heard it all. Yeah.

00:18:27:00 –> 00:18:52:11
Tell me about these new calibers. Like I have, I have no knowledge. I know the 28 nosler and some of the different calibers that are coming out. I’ve always shot a, well, I went from a 300 Weatherbee to a 300 ultra mag and, and you know, I like 22, 2 50. I mean, there’s a few basics that are in my closet, but I mean, tell me about these new calibers and, and what you’re finding accuracy wise and effectiveness wise. God,

00:18:52:11 –> 00:19:20:13
The effect, the effectiveness on, on both the 28 and the 30 nozz is incredible. Just the videos and the pictures and the stories from the guys, the 30 nozzle, it’s just a really, really accurate caliber. I remember the first one that we chambered when we did that was probably about a year ago. The guys at Nosler sent us a, a reamer. And, you know, we’re, we’re good friends with those guys, but we built one and it didn’t matter what bullet or what powder I used, that gunshot. Good. Wow. It just, it just one of those, one

00:19:20:13 –> 00:19:27:20
Of those rounds. What’s, what’s, gimme the layman’s terms. What’s the difference between a 38 nozzle and a three oh ultra mag? Like what, what is it?

00:19:27:23 –> 00:19:41:29
The 30 nosler versus the 300 ultra mag? Yeah. Well, you know, that 300 ultra mag is just a bigger case. And that’s what I shoot, I think that’s what you, that’s what I’m hunt. You know, it’s just a, it’s a longer case. They don’t feed quite as good, you know? Yeah. In the heat of the moment. But

00:19:42:28 –> 00:19:43:18

00:19:43:18 –> 00:20:03:13
Speed-wise, the 300 ultra mags faster. Is it? Okay. It’s, yeah, it’s quite a bit. But you know, you’re, you’re shooting 93 94 grains of MBO out of 300 ultra mag that That’s right. Versus, versus, you know, 80 grains of another powder. Really? Yeah. Less recoil with that 30 miles. But it’s just, it’s a really, really accurate round.

00:20:03:28 –> 00:20:13:25
So in saying all that, is it something like, how is the energy down range? Are we have enough energy? Plenty for elk? I mean Oh yeah.

00:20:14:00 –> 00:20:14:08

00:20:14:15 –> 00:20:17:12
Are we talking 2,900 feet a second? Like what’s a nozzle running?

00:20:17:16 –> 00:20:26:07
Yeah, yeah. The 30 nozzle, you know, whether it’s a two 10 or a one 90, they, they’re around 3000 feet per second somewhere right there. So it’s, it’s, it’s right there.

00:20:26:13 –> 00:20:46:10
What’s interesting though is there was this fad maybe, what do you think five years ago about speed was king and Oh yeah. You know, so when you came out with a wildcat cartridge or a new cartridge, it was always faster and better and bigger. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like shooting a 180, going 3,700. Yeah. Now we’ve come out with a new cartridge that shooting’s a little slower.

00:20:46:19 –> 00:20:49:14
A slow hits better than a fast mist. Right?

00:20:49:21 –> 00:20:51:13
Yeah. Oh yeah. I’d say. Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:51:13 –> 00:21:00:23
For sure. So it’s just all about accuracy, you know, like we’ve talked about the holdover verticals and the turrets, whether it’s slow or fast, that’ll get it there. Yeah. It will.

00:21:00:27 –> 00:21:23:22
You know, and I think too, you know, and like we talked a little bit about yesterday is, is you know, whether you’re, let’s say a bullet’s dropping 160 inches at 900 yards or something, I mean, or, or he is dropping 143 inches. Like what’s the difference? We’re gonna have to compensate absolutely. A lot of inches. Yeah. A lot of inches. And so just a few more inches. If it’s a more accurate round, it’s a little bit slower. It’s not that big a

00:21:23:25 –> 00:21:26:25
Deal. It’s not a big deal. Yeah. It’s all about accuracy. Yeah.

00:21:27:07 –> 00:21:42:05
It’s everything. Yeah. Well, how, I don’t know if you want to get into the components of your rifle. I noticed, I like the look of your brake on there. I mean, is there pluses and minuses, you know, to different brakes out there accuracy wise, noise wise

00:21:43:00 –> 00:21:54:23
A muzzle break’s a muzzle break. They’re all noisy. Yeah. You know, but what I’ve noticed is when you’re out hunting and, and you’ve got a 200 inch deer out there, the last thing you’re thinking is, oh, this is gonna hurt my ears. Right. Yeah. You you just shoot.

00:21:54:25 –> 00:21:55:26
You just shoot, you just shoot.

00:21:56:05 –> 00:21:56:08

00:21:56:08 –> 00:21:56:20
Know. And

00:21:56:25 –> 00:21:57:23
I never really noticed that after

00:21:58:00 –> 00:22:26:02
I’ve got bad hearing in my left ear right now, really bad. In fact, I would miss college tests and whatnot and, you know, ’cause I was laying on one ear and my alarm would be going off in the other. I’m lucky I even made it through college, but, gotcha. Anyway, but my point nowadays is, you know, I try to use hearing protection, but when I’m in the field, I just know that there’s gonna be five or six rounds or maybe hopefully more if there’s, you know, we got more tags, but that I’m just gonna take it in the ears. You know what I mean? So to speak.

00:22:26:17 –> 00:22:27:01
It’s not a big

00:22:27:01 –> 00:23:00:19
Deal. It’s one of those things you’re gonna give up a little bit to make sure that you can hear the people around you. You can, you can hear your surroundings and all that. So what can people do to become more prepared, more prepared in the field? Is it just, you know, becoming like, you get a guy that comes in and gets a rifle. I mean, a lot of these guys, you know, haven’t got, had the for good fortune to hunt. Like you and I have kill coyotes every day. Yeah. Go out and have guns in their trucks. Yeah. I mean, they might live in the city, they might live back east, like Yeah. You know, in my opinion, they need to become familiar with the, with rifles in general. Plus your rifle.

00:23:00:23 –> 00:23:19:13
Yeah. Well that’s, that’s one thing, that thing that we offer. Every guy that buys a rifle from us, we invite ’em to come and pick it up. And we have guys from all over the United States all year long. Yeah. And the reason we invite ’em is so they know how to use it. Yeah. You know, they, they don’t know the turret system. They don’t know anything about parallax adjustment. So we take him to the range and we shoot.

00:23:20:03 –> 00:23:24:07
Okay. So a guy buys a rifle, he comes out and picks it up. You want him to, we

00:23:24:07 –> 00:23:24:28
Want him to you

00:23:25:02 –> 00:23:32:11
Ship, you ship them out too. But you want him to come. Yeah. And then tell me a little, I’ve been to your range, but tell tell the listeners about your range a little bit. Well,

00:23:32:11 –> 00:23:52:29
It’s, it’s, it’s outta Morgan about seven, eight miles and just an awesome range. It’s on the backside of the Wasatch front. Yep. Yeah. You know where the towers are there in Farmington? Yeah. We’re just, we’re just south and, and west of there a little bit, but incredible range. We got, we got targets out to a mile. Wow. Yes. We start at two and just go

00:23:53:07 –> 00:23:54:25
From there. So how many yards is a mile?

00:23:55:19 –> 00:23:57:00
17? That’s 1742 I think.

00:23:57:00 –> 00:24:01:05
Something like that. So have you shot a mile? I have. Can you shoot accurate at a mile?

00:24:02:13 –> 00:24:03:22
I can hit a 12 inch plate.

00:24:04:02 –> 00:24:08:14
Can you really? Yeah. Is this with a 12 pound gun or one of the gun I ordered? That’s, that

00:24:08:28 –> 00:24:14:06
That gun will do. It just might take us a couple rounds. Wow. But that’s, that’s a long miles, a long ways.

00:24:14:11 –> 00:24:15:17
What caliber were you using? Do you

00:24:15:20 –> 00:24:21:12
Remember? 300 Ultra Mag? Were you, Kurt? Kurt hits it all the time, but he’s got a 3 38, Kurt, Kurt and Joshua 38.

00:24:21:14 –> 00:24:22:28
Yeah. Holy See cow.

00:24:23:02 –> 00:24:26:29
What’s funny is you shoot and you don’t hear anything and you think you’ve missed it,

00:24:27:07 –> 00:24:28:06
And then it hear and then it

00:24:28:06 –> 00:24:29:12
Hits. Geez. It’s crazy.

00:24:30:01 –> 00:24:54:10
Well, it’s pretty addicting, you know, and I think a lot of this long range stuff is, is there’s ethics involved in everything and you can abuse everything and everything. Absolutely. If I feel like, and I found this, I found this like if, if I feel like I can shoot 11 or 1200 and we were shooting jackrabbits at 1200, if I feel like I can do that, these 600 yard shots are nothing. That’s true. And I’ve, that’s true. And have yet to miss at 600. Yeah. You know what I mean?

00:24:54:10 –> 00:24:57:19
Yeah. And you don’t wanna say that lightly, but that’s really the truth. It’s the truth. It’s truth.

00:24:57:27 –> 00:25:26:26
It feels, it’s just like shooting a bow of these guys that are good at a hundred yards or 120 yards. It’s not that they want to kill something 120, but all of a sudden 70 and 60 and 50 and 40 Yeah. And and 30 are absolute chip shots. Yeah, that’s true. And so there’s, there’s a lot of variables, but you get more and more confident the more time you spend at long range. Yeah. You know? So, well, do you want to share any kind of a quick hunting story or, or one of your favorite hunting stories or hunting memories? That’s

00:25:26:26 –> 00:26:06:12
Not a hard one. So I was, it was three years ago I was hunting with my bow in Wyoming, opening day and you know, dusty Nelson? Oh yeah. Him and his father. Yeah. He was with us and my, my hunting buddies, his father-in-law. But so we’re, we took the llamas and we’re packed back in, you know, to a place where we go and region H in, in Wyoming and it’s opening day and we see this buck that I’d saw the year before just 50 yards from where I saw him the last time. Yeah. You know, just a different year. Yeah. And, you know, so I got my bow and they’re talking me into going over there. He is a pretty nice deer, you know, he is got a kicker off of his G four and big fronts and real bladed backs. You know, like 187 inch deer.

00:26:06:12 –> 00:26:48:08
Yeah. He was, he was a nice deer. Yeah. So I make a stalk on this deer. It takes me two, takes me two hours to get over to where he is. And the wind was just, the wind was blowing so hard. There were pine cones just shooting across the canyon. It was, geez. So this deer, he beds and I head over and you know how it is when you’re going on a stock, you think, oh, you know what’s gonna happen. Yes. You know, and so I’d get over there and there were, there were two little dead pine trees was where I wanted to get, you know, and Dusty’s filming this thing. But I get over there and I don’t see anything and I’m looking, but I’m looking down below me Yeah. Further than I should have. And I finally was patient for one time in my life.

00:26:48:18 –> 00:27:28:27
I knelt down, I knelt down. Sounds like me. I knelt down and I kind of got myself just, if I had to shoot, I could shoot, you know? And I thought, you know, I’m just gonna sit here. And about 40 minutes into it, I actually see the tying of the deer by this rock to my left. I saw his tie sticking out. He was, he was right below me. He was, he was probably 10 yards from me. Jeez. And so I sat there for like two more hours and this deer finally stands up and he started to walk away from me. And for some reason, you know, it worked out in my favor. He stopped and he walked back the other way. I shot him at seven yards. Geez. Shot him at seven yards. He went down just like you shot him with a rifle. Wow. He just,

00:27:29:03 –> 00:27:29:15
He just

00:27:29:26 –> 00:27:41:15
Went on, just, just dropped done, done. Yeah. Just kicked around. And that was that. So that, that was my most memorable hunt. Wow. I mean, I’ve had some good ones, but that just don’t happen very often.

00:27:41:24 –> 00:27:50:15
No, no. It sure doesn’t. Well, that’s awesome. Yeah. Well, so how can somebody get ahold of you guys? How do they order a rifle? What’s your lead time? Our

00:27:50:15 –> 00:28:01:04
Lead time right now we’re about six, seven months. But if a guy has a hunt that he’s, you know, we got guy’s got, you know, stone sheep hunts. We try to get those rifles to ’em. But yeah, we’re going along in a pretty good clip right now,

00:28:01:12 –> 00:28:04:22
So. Good, good. So and so, and then how, how can they get ahold of you?

00:28:04:23 –> 00:28:14:14
They can just Red rock precision.com. We got a gun builder on there. Okay. And, and actually you guys are redoing that gun builder for us right now, but, or they just, just call us, you know? Yeah.

00:28:14:16 –> 00:28:21:24
Just visit with you, just visit with us. Well, and and you’re happy to visit with guys, you know, even if they don’t, you know, buy a rifle, just visit about

00:28:21:26 –> 00:28:23:28
Yeah, I visit with guys all the time. Awesome.

00:28:24:02 –> 00:28:32:28
Yeah. Well, can’t tell you how much we appreciate you spending some time with us today. I know you guys are leaders in the industry. I can’t wait to get my new rifle. Yeah. We’re we,

00:28:33:03 –> 00:28:33:18
I’m excited.

00:28:33:20 –> 00:28:36:23
We’re come to crush some stuff this year with I promise. So we’re excited. No,

00:28:36:26 –> 00:28:37:20
We’re looking forward to that.

00:28:37:21 –> 00:28:55:21
Anyway, really want another shout out to Under Armour for sponsoring these podcasts. What an awesome company they are as well. Very innovative. May build awesome gear for, for hunters. And anyway, just appreciate them, appreciate you talks. Thanks for spending some time with us. Okay. Thank you. Looking forward to continuing our partnership with Epic Outdoors. Sure. Sure. We

00:28:55:21 –> 00:28:56:03
Alright buddy.

00:28:56:03 –> 00:28:56:27
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks a lot.