In this episode of Epic Outdoors we switch up the regular to share a podcast that we feel will help you get to know us a little better. Jason Carter and Adam Bronson sit down with Lucas Paugh and Jason Quick of the RnA Outdoors Podcast. This episode gives us a closer look at the background of Jason Carter and Adam Bronson as well as helping us understand Epic Outdoors and its goals.

Disclaimer: this podcast has been transcribed from the original audio and likely contains errors. This transcription does not reflect the views and opinions of Epic Outdoors LLC. Please consult the original audio with any concerns.

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We do want to be the best at what we do. And that’s Western Big game. Went

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To school, become a wildlife biologist. Received a bachelor’s and a master’s degree here in Utah.

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Everybody’s measure of success is different.

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Anything to do with Western Big Game.

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody. Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Got a little something different today. We’ve got an interview that Lucas of R n a Outdoors podcast did with us and we decided to repurpose it on Epic Outdoors Podcast as well. So anyway, appreciate Lucas cornering, Adam and I there at the Hunt Expo, and we sat down and just visited about quite a bit of, little bit about everything in regards to Western big game hunting. So anyway, before we get started, do wanna thank Under Armour for sponsoring these epic outdoor podcasts. Super fun company to be a partner with and we’ve got a lot of neat things coming out with them and the epic partnership here in the future. So with that, we’ll get started.

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All right, so we’re sitting here on day two at the Western Hunting Expo at the Epic Outdoors Booth. Very fortunate to sit down with two guys that you would argue are probably some of the, the most renowned D I Y public land type hunters in the industry. But more than that, I think what’s important is, is you know, we’re here to share and, and send a common message. And that’s really, it’s around conservation. It’s around sending our message that what we do is positive, right? Public lands are, you know, on the ballot right now. There’s a lot of things happening and I think the biggest thing we can do is share with hunters, non-hunters, anti hunters that what we do is positive. It’s a good thing, right? So, so more than anything we’re gonna have a good conversation today. Sitting down here, I’ve got my co-host with me, Jason Quick from the N R A who has co-hosted many podcasts with me. He’s been on many podcasts, we’ve been on a lot of adventures together. So Jason, thanks for being here with us. Oh

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Man, glad to be here. And especially with these guys, these are gonna be some fun times here.

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Yeah. So to kind of tee up our introduction, so you know, when you hear the name Jason Carter for me, you know, I think of a guy who’s a very established and incredible mule deer hunter. I’ve been a member of some of the application services for going on 12 to 15 years. I’ve seen a lot of pictures of Jason, I’ve actually emailed him in the past and never got an opportunity to meet him. So for me, this is a, a big opportunity. Secondly, Adam Bronson is a wildlife biologist, has a extended background in being a pro professional hunting consultant, and also a big game outfitter, you know, year after year. These guys not only harvest, but help people find huge big game western animals and really what this conservation Expo is about. So with that, I wanna welcome both Adam and Jason Carter, partners of Epic Outdoors to our podcast. Thanks for being here guys. Thanks

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For having us. You

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Bet, Lucas. Thank you.

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Absolutely. So the first thing I wanna do is what we call, it’s the Rapid fire Q and A. So what that is, is I’m gonna go through a series of questions. Okay? I’ll give you guys a little bit of time to kind of go through ’em and as I explained it. So what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna ask you a series of questions and gimme an answer. Okay? And a lot of this is, is prefaced on, you know, it’s application season right now. That’s part of what you guys do at Epic. And I think it’s important that if someone’s got max points in Arizona and hey man, I’m looking at a unit nine tag. I’m looking at a Unit 10 tag, I’m looking at a 23 tag. In your professional opinion, what do you think is the best unit in those states? So we’ll go through some of those questions, it’ll kind of help break the ice. And then from there we’ll get into the discussion. So the first question I have, you guys are both natives of Utah? Yep. So being natives of Utah, a guy has max points and deer. Okay. Are you gonna put him in for the Pongan tag or are you gonna put him for the Henry Mountains tag?

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We’re laughing at Henry’s for sure.

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Yeah, he’ll be on the Henry’s. And you

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Have some 17 points muzzle loader tag. Looking into my future

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All, you’ve got some extensive background in the Henry’s. I know Adam, so we may be able to talk about that later in Arizona. I know Jason, you’ve drawn a strip tag, but if, if you could have the option at A 13 A or a 13 B tag in your

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Well there’s, there’s no question you’re gonna be on 13 B 13 A has had some big deer in the past and it’s got phenomenal genetics. But just, you know, right now in this era, this little window of time, 13 Bs, no question better. Okay,

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In Arizona for Elk Unit nine or 23, what do you guys think?

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Just like Jason said, regarding Arizona deer right now, no question 23 North is be better there. Nine has a big following and rightfully so. But 23 North is cranking right now and nine’s a little flatter than it historically, historically has been. And

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There’s 23, 23 North and South has less hunters and you’re just, you just got big bulls.

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Yeah, there’s conversation that nine, it’s good, don’t get me wrong. Yeah. But it’s not as good as it was 15 years ago. But is anything as good as it was 15 years ago? I,

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I think 23, my argue is better than 15 years ago and maybe the only unit down there you’d say that. And the rest are slightly, slightly,

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Slightly down. We’re seeing a few uptrends, you know, and unit 10 with tag cuts the last couple years. But overall, you know, I would just say, yeah, go back to 23, 23 and being really good right now. You know, every year there’s gonna be big bulls and we got a lot of weather down there, but absolutely. But yeah.

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So Elk in Utah, would you apply in the Beaver unit or the San Juan?

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I mean, we’re gonna look at the odds split, aren’t we? No, we’re gonna look at the odds and, and of course, you know, factor all that in, but they’re the biggest Bulls are on Beaver right now.

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Yeah, I’m, I’m from Monticello, born and raised on the San Juan. So that would probably bias me to just hunt that unit. But all that aside, beaver probably has half the tags or or or 40% of the tags and I would take a beaver tag.

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Less competition. Yeah, more

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Opportunities and the bulls maybe a

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Better chance to kill a three 90 plus bull. Three 70 plus bulls. It doesn’t matter. Go to either one, you’re gonna kill one. Probably more of them on San Juan. But for really ultra giant bull lower, low pressure, beaver,

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Beaver with burning in there and everything, it’s just, it’s excellent right now.

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So sheep guy here and I know Jason, you’ve, you’ve saw some sheep in your day. So in Montana, would you take the six 80 tag or the 4 82 brakes tag?

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I would either, but I would say from talking to the people we have to this point and we’ll get in more depth than that in a future issue. But I think right now I’m hearing more of the guides and people up there in only hunt 4 82 right now. That’s recently changed the last two, three years is

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All Sure. That’s a lot of, you know, things change. Yeah. And they’ll change in a year or two. Yeah.

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Two years ago it could be Tony, the opposite we’re talking

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About. Right? Yeah. We would’ve told you the

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Opposite. We would’ve told you six

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We’re for this year. Yeah.

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Absolutely. So yeah, the most popular six 80 and everybody knows that, but there’s big rams in both. I’ll take either one. Absolutely. Yeah.

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Any anybody that could get a tag there Is we gonna be smiling from ear to

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Ear, but for one or two, the very specific top end monster

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1 95, 200. Yeah, that’s what we’re talking about. Yeah. We’re not talking about 180 1 90 rams. Go to either one for those. Yeah, that’d be five.

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And I know, I know residents in Montana, ’cause I, I lived, I was born and raised in Montana. People that have been applying for 30 plus years residents for that tag and they’ve never drawn it. Right. I mean it’s That’s right. You knows not only being a non-resident now, but being a resident not having the ability to draw that tag. It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s amazing. Yeah.

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Max’s point holder waiting probably before, hopefully before I get too much more gray hair.

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So Colorado for elk, a unit 61 or a 2 0 1 tag.

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Oh, we’d be in 2 0 1. Yeah,

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No question. Right? 20 some

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Points to you have the points to get it. Yeah, I mean you could choose, it’s just 2 0 1

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Elk and New Mexico. 16 D or 16 A,

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You’d be in 16 D although 16 A has big, big bulls too and people that go there love it and we hear back from everybody. But

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Those are close. Yeah, but a little bit lower tag numbers in D so it maybe gets the edge kinda like maybe a beaver did on a, the sand comparison. Less pressure. Sure. Yeah. But it is a smaller unit too, so it, I don’t know.

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That’s bulls. You

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Want me to get a quarter out and we’ll flip?

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It’s almost a flip. There’s

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Bulls that die of a bull age in both of them. Sure. A lot of, A lot of rugged, nasty country in both. So, okay.

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If you’re an Alaska hunting doll sheep, would you pick the chew gas, the Brooks range or the toque?

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I would have a chew. I just found out my draw results something a little bit bummed. I did not draw my chew gas tag. I would, I would pick a tag there. I think it a better chance to kill a giant, you know, a one 70 plus ram there. Toque rams are beautiful, long and pretty. Nothing wrong with them, but for most people, if you’ve killed one already, you’re going for very best the size. And maybe a chew gauge. That’s where got ’em bases. Bigger bases. Yep.

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Okay. If you guys had to pick elk or deer, this is probably a stupid question for one, what would you choose?

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Oh, I mean

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Deer, no question.

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Deer. Although I’m looking for a 480 straight six someday.

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It’s on the bucket list.

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Oh yeah. We killed some good bulls. Both of us have and, and of course some good deer too. But, but we, we do love deer. Deer is your passion. Deer’s a bad, deer’s A passion.

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How about sheep or mountain goat? Is there one that gets you going more than the other? No question.

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No question. We both killed goats, but we would shoot 10 or 20 sheep in our life. Oh yeah. Yeah. And we may not shoot another goat. We’d be, I mean everybody

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Needs a goat. We all need lots of sheep.

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Yeah, absolutely. The problem is so many sheep tags, it’s a whole lot of people applied for ’em. Right.

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It’s a bunch of money. That’s right.

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So if you could choose either a hard horn buck or a velvet buck, what would it be?

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I’m a hard horn guy. Pretty velvet is good. But man, I like, I like hard horn

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Butts. I and I and I hunt ’em in the velvet. And I love velvet a a pretty velvet. There’s nothing like a pretty velvet buck. But I love a hard horn deer too. Yeah. I like to see the bloodlines. I like to see all the little tiny detail on a buck. And you know, as long as they’re not broke off or something crazy. I just, I just love a put together hard horn. Heavy detailed buck. That’s what I like.

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Yeah. So on that same lines, do you like the typical frame, you know, deep forks, chocolate type bucks? Or do you like the trashy non-typical type bucks?

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I want a non-typical but with a big frame to go with it. Trashy bucks with bad frames. I don’t like those myself. Yeah. I like a big frame. Either clean or a big frame with some trash.

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Yeah. And I mean, you shoot ’em all when they’re big. That’s right.

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Whatever they got on,

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Whatever they got. If they’re big, they’re big. That’s a plus. Right. You know, if we had to choose and we really were, you know, had the opportunity to have ’em side by side or something. And obviously, you know, I want a big frame with, with, with some trash. But you know, those big typicals are hard, are hard to find when people talk about big typicals being, you know, easier than a non-typical, I don’t know, it’s hard to book a, a net book typical. It really is. And they’re beautiful. That’s a horrible one. You get a 35 inch straight up four with heavy and big eye, big eye guards. That’s a beautiful deer. Yeah. And you know, I need one like that. Look, he just took

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A big so

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You guys pressure.

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We worked up man. Getting a little, thinking about that. Thinking

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About that $5 tag that he threw money out just a minute ago,

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You know? Yeah, that’s right.

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In terms of optics, are you guys Swarovski guys? Zes or Leica?

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Swarovski. Swarovski all the

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Way. Yeah. I mean, we’ll use some Xi I’ve got Zes and Leica too, but you know, Swarovski’s pretty dang good. Yeah. It’s

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Hard to beat good glass. In terms of what you’d have in your hand, would you prefer archery equipment? A muzzle loader or a rifle if you had to pick one? This

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Is hard ’cause we, we honestly every year hunt with every weapon. So I couldn’t pick it’s, it’s however we can get a tag for the unit we want with whatever weapon that’s, so

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We’re going, a lot of times Adam and I are spec picking out specific animals and so whatever, like, you know, if you found him on the, in the rutt, you know, and he was rutting, you’re gonna need a later tag, you’re probably gonna have a rifle in your hands and you’re gonna go for that season. But if we’ve got, if we prec scout in the summer and we got a 220 inch deer in the summer or something, we’re not waiting for a rifle to kill him. ’cause he’s probably not gonna be there. So we’ll hunt him with a bow. It’s nice to kill him, you know, with a bow you usually hunt him. Yeah. And and sometimes you kill ’em. Yeah. And sometimes you don’t. But, but we both like muzzle and rifle and as well as our tree and, and we do ’em, we do all of them every year generally. So yeah. So anyway, not, not too much preference there. Okay. The gratification of shooting one with a bow is amazing. And I think Adam would agree with that. When you get a big deer or a big elk on the ground and you did it with a bow, like it’s awesome because you usually had a real, real, you know,

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Connection with that animal, right? Yeah,

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You do. And you’re close, you’re

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Close to him multiple times usually before it finally comes together. Yeah. Like you’ve, you’ve stared him all in the eye freezing at 50 yards, you know, and had the, had him snort and blow out, it’s usually didn’t kill him the first day you try

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And you knock one down at four or 500. I mean, you’re amped up, but it’s just not the same as having ’em at 40. Yeah. Or 30 or 20. Sure. You know?

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Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then the last question, I know you, you’re pretty modest guys, but I mean, what is the best year you’ve shot now and, and I’m not talking trophy class, I’m not talking the largest in inches, but there’s probably one that, okay. It’s not the biggest bucket, but it has my heart. It’s the one that, I mean, this was the best buck I ever took, even though it didn’t score the best. Is there one out there that you guys, well, maybe it did score

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The best maybe. Yeah, you know, I, you know, I, there’s a couple that stand out to me. One was with that when Adam was with me, I drew my Arizona tag, I drew it on 12 B and we went out there and just grunted it out. And it’s one of those times where, you know, we felt like we kind of had the governor’s tag. It was a, we’re out in the middle of nowhere hunting Sandhills. And, and it was one of those places didn’t have a ton of tags, but even the people that drew weren’t there. They weren’t hunting there, they were hunting a little bit easier country. And, and where there was more deer and we were hunting low densities. And so Adam and I and another friend of ours just grunted it out and we ended up being successful and killed him. And, and we sat around the campfire right there at the kill site and we probably sat there for, I don’t know, hours recounting the experience, loving it, living it over and over again.

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Yeah. And just, and just really taking in the moment. And so to me, you know, that’s one. And then, you know, I’ve had other deer that I’ve hunted for a couple of years and you finally put your hands on ’em and there’s something to be said for that too. Sure. But, but, but I really enjoyed that experience and being able to experience that together. It’s, it’s about who you’re hunting with too at times. Yeah. It’s not just about the animal. Although we love the animal and that’s why we’re there too. Bonding relationship too. That’s right.

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That was one of those nights that I remember we even said it, we’re like, will this ever happen again? Yep. We, that’s why we’re, like, before we even started carving the deer up and taking care of him, we, we just soaked it in for three or four hours. It was like minus five or 10 degrees and cold. And we were one of those,

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It was out in the desert in Thanksgiving time. And literally we started a fire and just chilled out and it was so awesome. I haven’t had an experience like that since. No.

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Wow. That’s, that’s incredible guys. Really that’s that moment. Well, it was

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To put a number to it. He’s talking about his 272 inch deer. So it was one of those Sure.

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It was that kind of deer with that kind of experience by yourself. Not competing against the general public, although they could have been out there and then just us. Yeah, no, it was just us and see 20 miles from the nearest main

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Road. And that’s what makes it cool. I mean, everybody’s measure of success is different, right? Yeah. And I think not only being successful on the hunt, but sharing it with really your, you know, your best friends, the people that are in the gutters with you when you’re feeling down and the guys are there when you’re happy. I think that’s what makes the experience what it is.

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Absolutely. Yep.

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Okay. So I, I do wanna talk a little bit about just a grassroots discussion. I mean, you guys don’t get to this point by just being average hunters or being average, you know, outdoors people. So maybe for both of you, just give the listeners a little bit of a background how you got to where you are now, if there’s a simple way to do that.

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Okay. I, well I, you know, all growing up, my dad worked for the Game and Fish. He worked for the Forum for 20 years and retired from ’em. But all along those ways, he’d throw me in the truck and I got to go experience some crazy stuff. Like we were talking about over on the San Juans. He ha he was in charge of the LaSalle Mountains, the book Cliffs of the Dores Triangle. And he, we lived in Moab, Utah. And and I, I have fond memories of just being thrown in the truck, doing aerial counts, sheep captures. They put me in the helicopter once, which that’ll never happen this day and age. Sure. And then, and just cool stuff. So I, I was immersed in it. I was just immersed in game and fish stuff and, and hunting. And we, he constantly researched other places in other states because a lot of the, during the hunting season, he had to be in Utah working.

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And so how are you gonna hunt when you’re working during the season? And so we had to go hunt other places and odd things and we would ss Spike Hunt in Colorado and we’d go hunt in New Mexico and we Turkey hunted in five states and lived in a, you know, pop-up camper. I mean, you know, and he just ingrained that love Sure. Into, into our family. It was part of our family. It was who we were. And as time, as time grew on, you know, I I wanted to put my hands on some of those critters and I’m newlywed and graduated from college and, and needed to, how, how are you gonna do that? How are you, do you gonna do that making $20,000 a year? Yes. Which is what I was making. 24,000, you know, newlywed. Well, you’re gonna start guiding, you know, and, and, and I’m not a good guide.

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I’m not, I don’t got the good personality, have a great camp, good food. I’m not that guy. Yeah. But I wanna put my hands on big stuff and I can help you find some big stuff. And, and so that’s what I did and that helped us, helped me provide some checkbook that that paid for the gas, the gas money from my own hunts. Sure. And, and it taught me a lot too, because there’s a lot of pressure from taking clients and I’m 20 years old, 21, 22, and really trying to make a name for myself, trying to be, to learn how to hunt, to kill big stuff and to be responsible for that. And then put my hands on these animals yet I know, I know. Nothing. I, I mean I’ve grown up in it, but, but a lot of that is just being out in the hills and you, there’s no substitute for time in the hills to, to teach you these things.

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And so anyway, we did that and then just kind of, you know, that’s a little bit of my like childhood. Yeah. And then that never quit. We just kept on going through, ended up being able to, you know, got married. My wife let me take all the vacation time, comp time, time before work after work, sick leave without, without her literally I would not be where I’m at or have harvested the animals. And she took part in our successes is, is, and she’s manning the booth right now while we’re doing this. So now she’s manning the booth and, and doing a great job at it and, and a hundred percent supportive in my lifestyle. And so I got to go out and, and take what should have been family time and did me time, you know, hunting deer and elk and there’s this, there’s a, you know, a price to pay for all the success that we have in life Sure. No matter what you do. And I just, anyway, we just kept doing it and she took part in it and then we brought our kids into it and there we are. Here we are. And Adam, Adam I know has a similar story and

00:19:01:03 –> 00:19:21:00
You had very similar to Jason. It is my dad. I have a younger brother that’s about three years younger than me. And so, you know, growing up, you know, he just drug us wherever with him. And there was, I remember a lot of times I, I remember back now of some of those trips where he took us and I can’t believe he took us where we, where we went at that age without

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Cell phones

00:19:21:23 –> 00:20:09:02
Or whatever. Yeah. And I can’t believe we did it because it was a lot. It, it crushes me now to go back to some of those areas, you know, and spend the night and hike into. And I’m thinking, wow, that was pretty good. But I think we realized early in life that you, you, you go to places where not many other people do and you usually experience a little bit different type of experience, whether you’re scouting, hunting, fishing, whatever. But he was very good at that. I grew up in southern Utah as well on the San Juan. I remember seeing the first Elk there and, and watching the first Elk get released onto the San Juan and always had a affinity for, for deer and, and sheep, Southern Utah’s red rock country. It’s very unique to southern Utah and a couple other places in, in Arizona.

00:20:09:20 –> 00:20:46:01
But dad would haul us down there in the wintertime hunting coyotes and looking at, looking at desert bighorn sheep. And I’m sure that’s the only, it has to be, the only way that I started to have an affinity for sheep. I would always remember on the deer hunt, you know, you’re always too young to go with dad until you get to a certain age. But he’d bring some big mul deer home back in the, you know, early eighties and nineties and, you know, the hey days of, of Utah and wanting, wanting that. And, and over time that just became a part of what we do. We miss school to hunt. That was about the only thing we missed school to do was hunt. Yes, exactly. And over time I decided that, you know, I wanted somewhat of a type of a career to do that.

00:20:46:03 –> 00:21:34:13
So I went to school, become a wildlife biologist, received a bachelor’s and a master’s degree here in Utah in wildlife management. And went to the work, did my ra master’s project on deserts bighorn sheep in southern Utah. And just was very fortunate in timing of, of when people retired. I got hired right outta college as a wildlife biologist, was over Mount Dutton, Pengu Lake Ponson, KA Escali, parts of the Boulder. I mean, arguably one of the top two districts in Utah. The other one being in San Juan County, in my opinion would be probably the best too. Had a great five years working for the Utah D W r tell an opportunity kinda outta nowhere, came to, you know, jump on board with Jason and I guess go back to the private world and use some of that. And, and all through those years, like Jason said, you’re going to college and you’re, you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul to try to apply for some state.

00:21:34:21 –> 00:22:16:10
Don’t wanna go back to those days. Yeah. How do you, how can you apply for, you know, Colorado Sheep, Wyoming on credit card taking 0% credit cards. And now I’m so thankful ’cause you got 15 to 20 points in a lot of these states and you’re, you’re to a point that we literally can’t apply for everything that we want every year. We have to pick and choose because we could draw absolutely two of the same thing. And so all through those years, it was great. Went to work for Jason in 2006. So about the last 10 years, been back in the private world. And when I, when I did that, I’d always taken a few hunters in college, worked for some different outfitters. But it was that time I thought, all right, why do I, why do I wanna hunt? I wanna hunt sheep. I’m only gonna get a few times in my life myself to do it.

00:22:16:10 –> 00:22:59:20
The next best thing is to go with somebody that’s got a tag. And similarly with Henry Mountain’s deer or any other big deer like Jason’s guided in Nevada. The only reason I do it is ’cause I like to put my hands on ’em. I want to hunt somewhere where I would want to tag myself. I, maybe that’s a little bit selfish or sounds elish, but I wanna hunt where I would want to hunt myself if I could just pick tags off the shelf. And that’s the handraiser sheep or some of the most elite elk units. And so I’ve done that for the last 10 years and as a result I’ve had some great experiences and broaden my knowledge base dramatically in Utah, Nevada, Arizona, sheep hunts, things like that. So all of these things collectively add up to a lot of, a lot of knowledge.

00:22:59:24 –> 00:23:37:02
Every general season hunt, you try to make something out of nothing. Still teaches you something about a unit. And some of the, the great hunts we go on, obviously we learn a lot from there. So collectively it’s just a, you know, Jason, Jason talked about his wife and family. It’s just kind of become who we are. And I, my wife in Lon, she was a, she was a non hunter. She wasn’t an anti hunter. She was a, I remember our first date, she asked me, are you a hunter? And I, you know, I was interested in her. So I didn’t really give her both barrels. I didn’t wanna port on too heavy so I didn’t load the gun. Yeah. And she, and when I said Yeah, in her mind she’s like, okay, we’re one and done, done. We’re one and done, you know, on first date.

00:23:37:20 –> 00:24:05:17
And we’re married 20 years later now. And she’s, she’s hunted, but she understands like Jan and Jason, that this is, we don’t have any bad habits in our life. We don’t have a lot of other habits in our life. Yeah. And so this is it. This is it. They understand it. And, and it’s very unique. We understand to make a, a hobby, the hunting world part of our livelihood. But we feel fortunate and blessed and, and and and to, to get, theres a cu a culmination of a lot of, lot of days in the field Sure. That that’s the only way to get there.

00:24:05:17 –> 00:24:27:22
There’s not a, there’s not a formula to get to this point in life. And you don’t know what life’s gonna bring you. And I think it’s just a matter of your stuff. It’s a matter of 20, 30 years of dealing with it. And then all of a sudden, you know, you, it opens up opportunities. And of course you’ve gotta, you know, you’ve gotta Annie up and take, take some risk and Sure. And, and do some things like that. And then, and then good things happen if you’re prepared for

00:24:27:22 –> 00:24:35:13
It. And there’s high and lows. And I tell everybody, you know, I work for the N R A and they’re like, how awesome is that? And I said, you know, sometimes it’s not so awesome. Yeah.

00:24:35:15 –> 00:24:42:14
You know, it’s not, we, they don’t pay me to shoot guns. Exactly. I mean there’s a lot of office work and that’s the same way with Adam and I. They don’t pay us to wet a line.

00:24:42:15 –> 00:24:58:26
Yeah. A lot, lot less shooting than people most, most likely think. But the reality is, it, it is, it’s kinda like being a farmer. It’s a way of life Yeah. That you choose and you guys are living, you know, everybody looks at you and goes, you guys are living the dream. Yeah. And sometimes the dream really is harsh. Well

00:24:58:28 –> 00:24:59:20
The dream’s a nightmare,

00:25:00:03 –> 00:25:14:14
But other times, the other times that always a good dream. The other times, just like that first story that you guys were talking about when you’re sitting around just going, is this ever gonna happen again? Those are the moments. Those are the crystals or the diamonds that you find. And

00:25:14:14 –> 00:25:16:29
That wouldn’t have happened. Like you said, that if you would’ve

00:25:16:29 –> 00:25:18:05
Been doing a nine to five somewhere,

00:25:18:08 –> 00:25:18:19
It wouldn’t

00:25:18:19 –> 00:25:20:22
Have happened. Wouldn’t have happened three days to go hunting

00:25:20:23 –> 00:25:40:08
Those points. I used those points came from back when I was college days Yes. Of 0% credit cards. You know, and hadn’t I done that if I would’ve just been working? I, I graduated in finance oddly enough. But if I’d have just been doing that and really had focus on that and not hunting, I wouldn’t have started gaining those points. I wouldn’t have had that tag that deer may have died of old age and or, or maybe somebody else killed him.

00:25:40:09 –> 00:26:07:02
Sure. Absolutely. So we’re here today and we’ve got Epic outdoors. So I think we, we understand some of the past, but you know, there’s a ton of competition out there. And I know you guys will, you know, know some of that, you guys know a lot of the competitors. But in your eyes, what sets you apart from all the competition out there, application services? I mean, is there something that you guys look at that says, you know, this is what we do, this is why we do it, and this is what makes us successful? Well, you

00:26:07:02 –> 00:26:50:28
Know, first off, I guess if we need to address the competition a little bit, we’re okay with competition. We want the industry to be bigger and we wanna encourage everybody to apply. Everybody gets to have their own ways and, and who they support and what they do. And if they support multiple companies, which a lot of people do, that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. And so, but what, you know, we do have a focus, Adam and I and the, and the crew at Epic, like we do have a focus and, and somewhat mission statement type focus of, you know, that we want to, we do want to be the best at what we do. And that’s Western big game. We want to be the best at that. And we want to be known as guys that help people and are very personable. And then, and then practice what we preach.

00:26:51:03 –> 00:27:19:17
We’ve gotta hunt this stuff too and put these animals on the ground as well. And so whatever that’s, we’re just focused on us. We’re really, although every company probably does look at their competition and you got, and just like Coke might look at Pepsi and vice versa. I mean that’s smart and you probably should do that, but it’s not our focus. And, and we want those guys to succeed. That’s fine. There’s enough room for everybody. Yeah. We just want to really focus on what we do and to treat our members right. And to work with our members. Yeah.

00:27:20:07 –> 00:28:20:28
We understand that this, this niche type service that we offer is a lot about, you gotta have some credibility. Understandable. You can’t just go, there’s no resume to become a hunting consultant, which is the only term we call ourselves. ’cause you gotta call ourselves something. There’s no resume for that. You become it through your life and how you, how you hunt, how you research. But having said that, I, I would say that our, our experience, I believe in the depth of experience is what sits us apart. And, you know, we’re not gonna point fingers, things like that. But really it comes down to the relationships and credibility and how somebody can trust you with, with their investment of points or their investment of money and booking a hunt with an outfitter that costs them hard-earned money. It’s, that’s what it comes down to. And we’re focused on making sure we can provide that confidence and that connection and credible suggestions to our people that trust us for their points, their applications or people that they book a hunt with.

00:28:21:08 –> 00:29:15:02
That’s what’s most important. If you don’t have that, they’ll go somewhere else and find it. Yeah. And if you can’t maintain it, they, they’re gonna go some else and find it. So you can’t get bigger than, than you can handle either. And you know, we’ve been very blessed and very fortunate as we’ve, you know, launched another component of our business. The magazine and the consulting service has gone very well. And we realize that as we, as we continue to, you know, grow that we need to be able to service the members. But I think the personal touch, the personal credibility, the relationship and the, the, the knowledge that we can impart to those guys, I think they trust it. And we need to maintain that. And that’s why we’re, I mean our, our brains are just wired for the next opportunity. We, if you could see, going back to the non-glamorous days that we talked about a minute ago, Jason and I are in the office nearly every morning at two or 3:00 AM and those aren’t glamorous times. It’s him and I and a blank computer screen. And we’re shrinking out a magazine,

00:29:15:02 –> 00:29:16:27
Maybe an r n a podcast here and there. That’s right.

00:29:17:08 –> 00:29:37:01
Well, we’re working, you know, let’s for that. You bet. So we do. And you know, it’s, but you, you can only get there one way. Each magazine starts with 110 blank white pages of paper on a computer screen. And we turn it into that every 21 to 28 days and a lot of work. But we’re glad to where, where we’re headed for sure.

00:29:37:10 –> 00:30:14:22
Well that’s a lot of fun. You know, I mean, looking at you guys and, and I remember Jason, and actually I remember before you were involved and, and seeing the progression and watching things happen, and then for me, the guy that’s been building points and applying for so many years and going, oh my God, did you see that thing that he wrapped his hands around and then all of a sudden seeing Epic outdoors on tv? I’m like, know those guys, you know, and then the best part for me as, and I’m a member, in fact, I, I don’t know how I got to be so high on the member list, you know? No, I think I’m, I’m like one 18. All those

00:30:14:22 –> 00:30:15:17
Emails, all those

00:30:15:17 –> 00:30:27:02
Emails, I was like, dude, what’s with you? You know? I said, I’m wanted in and now I get a notification via email that I could pay. I’m like, this is, this was spam to everybody. But on that same note, probably

00:30:27:02 –> 00:30:27:08

00:30:27:28 –> 00:30:53:22
It was, I know it was, but I picked up the phone and, and when I called in, I think it was you that answered the phone. And that’s the beautiful thing about you guys, is you pick up the phone and I know one of these days I’m gonna have that tag. Yeah. And when I pick up the phone and I call you probably be one of the first phone calls I make. Yeah, absolutely. And, and one of you guys goes, hold on, let me get, let me get Adam on this conference right now and we’re gonna talk about that Henry’s muzz loader tag, you know? Yeah. I mean he

00:30:53:22 –> 00:30:55:23
Keeps throwing that out for that, the positive

00:30:56:00 –> 00:31:12:10
Reinforcement for the draw. Gods telling you, Hey listen, he applied for it. The draw gods, you, you gotta tell ’em what you want. Because people laugh at me when I’m like rolling a dice and I say, okay, we’re gonna roll a hard six and a hard six comes up. And everybody goes like, I didn’t have any money on it. But, you know, I mean that was what I wanted. So

00:31:13:00 –> 00:32:22:04
Maybe to add on to what Adam’s saying a little bit too is, is we, we’re not, our goal is not to be the biggest is, is we, it’s absolutely not our goal. We have where we, we have a sweet spot and when we reach that sweet spot, we’re gonna maintain it. And, and I know it’s been said, you know, and it’s by most businesses that are smart and, and progressive thinking is, if you’re not growing, you’re failing. And, and that’s not, that’s not Adam and I, we, you know, they don’t, like he was saying, there’s no resume to be a consultant. You can’t just go hire consultants that are good or that would treat the members the way Adam and I do and, and, and take care of ’em the way we do and have the portfolio that we do and all of that. And so we don’t take it lightly. And so there’s a sweet spot that, that we’re going to, we’re gonna get to in a short, short amount of time. That’s awesome. We’re not, we’re co coming on it. And it’s one of those things that we’re just gonna maintain that we want a sweet little business for the next till we retire. And we wanna treat people, right. We wanna have awesome experiences in the hunting industry. We wanna be significant part of the hunting industry, but there’s room for everybody. And we definitely don’t wanna be the biggest that’s, that’s for other people. Yeah.

00:32:22:13 –> 00:32:32:08
So different business plan, it’s almost, you wanna be specialized versus, you know, swath three miles wide and two inches deep. You want a swath, you know, narrower but deeper, but have a much more specialized

00:32:32:22 –> 00:32:36:06
Business. But it’s our passion what we want. We don’t want to get out of our passion. Yeah. And

00:32:36:06 –> 00:32:36:12

00:32:37:07 –> 00:32:39:04
That’s what you do. And the money will fall Western.

00:32:39:17 –> 00:32:39:25

00:32:40:00 –> 00:33:41:14
Western North America, that’s it. You know, and, and when it comes to the draws, obviously the Western lower 48 states, but that’s it. But, you know, one other thing, you know, there are other pieces and parts that offer some of what our service offers, but to do a license application service from a, from people that want us to take care of that, Jason and I pick every unit for every single guy, and we’re still applying every single person ourselves, him and I, we look up and submit for every single person ourselves that may change down the road as we, you know, have to, you know, take on more responsibility as owners. But we’ll still pick every, we will still pick every unit ourselves. And you know, the magazine, you know, it’s for the people that just need a little bit more information to be able to make their own decisions than call in and talk to us. So there’s other services out there that may be offered, offer odds here and there, or offer, you know, a magazine, but don’t offer the calling and ability to call and strategize or don’t offer a license application service. I think we got something for everybody and, but at the same time, very specialized something for everybody. Not broad, not hot dogs for everybody.

00:33:41:24 –> 00:34:05:12
Yeah. Awesome. So coming to this expo, I mean, you guys typically the booth is, you know, it’s a 15, 20 minute wait. You got a guy that walks up and he says, you know, Hey man, I’ve never applied before, but I wanna start, I need help. What’s your advice to a guy like that versus a guy that comes up and says, man, I got max points. I mean, let’s talk to the guy who he’s new in the game, probably a little bit behind in the game, but how, what do you tell him? Well,

00:34:05:12 –> 00:34:41:04
We usually start with what species are you interested in? And so what do you wanna hunt? I mean, in my opinion, you need to have the 20 plus year plan, the 10 plus year plan, and then the now plan, people wanna hunt. Now they, they do wanna hunt now and there’s opportunities for them right now. But then as you’re going along, like if you can’t say 10 years from now, I wanna hunt sheep and start 10 years from now, that’s not gonna work. So do you ever wanna hunt sheep? Yes. Okay. Here’s the, here’s the states that we recommend and the point systems and these are the states you should be gaining points in. You know, and, and in most cases we’re gonna, you know, we recommend that you apply for a unit along the way. You may get lucky and get it your first year.

00:34:41:17 –> 00:35:20:05
And then, and then for deer and elk, we do do the same thing. You know, and, and a lot of it is, you know, how proficient they’re with the weapons and how long or how, what quality they want to hunt. Like if you’re hunting three 50 plus only bulls, that guy might wait a little bit or he needs to supplement with landowner tags or a guided hunt. And we can help with all that as well. So, you know, it just depends. Everybody’s situation is unique and I think that, you know, to add on to what Adam was talking about, as far as us picking units, it’s not something we take likely every single person. And we’re, and we’re looking at what, 50 people right here. I mean, every single person has different desires and, and just because I desire something doesn’t mean it’s right. That just fits me.

00:35:20:05 –> 00:36:02:01
Yeah. And, and my application strategy would be different than others. And, and I, and we all look at what each other’s doing and we might take a piece of that and say, oh, that’s smart. You know, maybe I, maybe I would do an over the counter or something in Idaho or, you know, build some general points in Utah or something and be able to hunt that every two years or something while I’m waiting for like you say the Henry’s or while I’m, you’re not just gonna wait for the Henry’s and a deer. Hunter’s gotta kill some deer buddy. I know. I mean, we’re not just gonna wait for the strip. We’re not just gonna hunt the Henry’s, we’re gonna hunt 0 1, 2, 3 point units in Colorado. I mean, Adam and I are doing that ourselves and, and we eat some tags and sometimes we get lucky. And, and so anyway, there’s a strategy that you need a short term, midterm long-term strategy. And we help with all that.

00:36:02:20 –> 00:37:06:26
I think that the number one thing we try to have these hunters do, especially if they’re brand new, is we try to paint a pretty clear picture of some of these are 20 plus point states. They’ve been around for a while. If you only want one 90 plus deer and 3 50, 3 70 type bulls and you don’t have the money to do it, it’s a, it’s a tougher outlook to start. You’re gonna naturally start with the Idahos and maybe New Mexico where they don’t have a point system, but everybody’s uniquely different, you know, species, weapon type, physical abilities, things like that. We try to clean as much of that. Our state recommendations then will try to match that personal hunter and the next guy that comes up to us, we might not even bring up something to him because it’s, it’s different. This guy’s, you know, 26 years old, another guy’s 60 years old. That’s a big consideration too. Sure. Yeah. And one guy loves our tree elk. You’re generally gonna have better opportunities to draw our tree elk tags than early rifle bulls. You know, we all know that. Yeah. So just try to customize their expectations, their goals to, to them. Okay. And our recommendations, we try to reflect that.

00:37:07:13 –> 00:37:22:26
So on the topic of hunting, so we’ve talked a little bit about the business and, and, okay, so now we’re gonna be drawing tags. So I’m gonna ask both of you guys this question and it’s gonna be specific to species animals. So Jason, what drives you to mule deer and Adam, what drives you to sheep?

00:37:25:17 –> 00:38:05:12
Well, I think even Adam might, I think would agree to this, but we’re all deer hunters at heart. We’ve all grown up with deer. That’s what we, you can draw on a regular basis. Like Adam said, I mean, I, I’ve killed a slam. Adam’s killed a lot of sheep. I mean, and, and so, but you can’t hunt ’em every year. So what are you gonna do? And we hunt deer. I mean, here in the west, if you were raised here in the west, you hunt deer. And, and, but for me, you know, I did take it to the next level or two and I, and I think it’s just, you know, back in the day, I would say early nineties, you know, you would get a magazine or something, maybe Eastman’s or something and you’d see like some two 50 buck killed outta Idaho. We didn’t have social media, but yeah.

00:38:05:17 –> 00:38:44:23
And, and so we didn’t see ’em as a regular occurrence as we’re seeing ’em now. I mean, I could flip through my phone today and show you some 200 inch plus deer. We didn’t have that back then. And it was so unique. It was mind blowing that they were even mule deer. It’s like a different species to see a two 50, a two 40, yeah. Something in the magazines. And, and I was just, I wanted one so bad. I just, I had so much respect for deer. I, I was hunting deer. I had so much respect for him. And, and yet I’d never seen one, I’d never seen a deer like that. And how, but, and I’m one of those guys that I’m not gonna take no for an answer is, oh, they’re not around. They’re, it’s, it used to be good. You should have been born in the fifties, sixties and or, you know, prior to that and then hunting in the fifties.

00:38:44:29 –> 00:39:29:16
I’m not gonna take that for an answer somewhere. There is a deer dying of old age that has the right genetics, that had the right feed and looks like that buck. And where is he? And I’m gonna try to find him, you know, I’m gonna do the best I can. I’m gonna spend my life doing it. And, and so even though it’s rare and even though it isn’t the fifties, sixties, eighties, whatever case you, you weren’t gonna be talking about, there’s still giants out there and, and I’m just gonna do all I can to, to hunt ’em. And then once you get going, it’s an addiction. Once you get started and you start following to do that, my, you know, you know, my strategy was to follow specific deer. So I followed, you know, maybe we’d have four on the hit list a specific deer and you’d find that one would jump from 180.

00:39:29:27 –> 00:40:10:25
You know, my first really big deer second 200 inch went from, you know, 180 7 to 2 37 in one year. And so net at 2 34. And so, you know, how did I know that? Well, we’re following specific deer and, and that was my strategy. Now we gotta have the hit list. One of them, one out of the four gets killed by a lion. One doesn’t show up and the other two are back better than ever. And, and then, and then part of that is you can’t just find these deer on the Arizona strip ’cause how you gonna hunt ’em? You know, so we gotta hunt ’em on a regular basis. So I didn’t go guide on the Arizona strip. It’s like Adam was talking about on why he’s guiding sheep and where he is doing it so he can use the knowledge for himself. I’m hunting and guiding in Nevada knowing I can draw and get landowner tags.

00:40:10:26 –> 00:40:38:14
I I, I could go guide on the strip and I get to put my hands on big stuff, but I can only hunt there once in my life, so to speak, in all reality. Sure. Yeah. So, so a I want the hit list, but I need to have the hit list in a place I can get a tag every year and be able to hunt those specific deer for maybe three years, maybe four years. And, but that drive came from early age, just loving mule deer being raised around mule deer and can’t get enough of ’em. Wanna put my hands on something truly special.

00:40:38:27 –> 00:40:54:19
That’s neat. Yeah. Just to briefly echo that, it’s, if we knew what we knew when we were 12 or 14, I wouldn’t have played high school football. ’cause I don’t, I’m not gonna go to college and play that. I would’ve hunted more ’cause they were around. Sure. They were around,

00:40:54:19 –> 00:40:56:05
Yeah. In the eighties. Yeah. There was giants

00:40:56:07 –> 00:41:04:14
And, and I say that to this day that we, the deer, we could hunt all three weapons on a general tag and you’re hunting one 90 deer on every season. Back then

00:41:04:16 –> 00:41:12:16
We hunted muzzle loader in the rutt back then on general Utah. And, and, and with gon deer were coming over to the general side. And, and I we’re

00:41:13:05 –> 00:41:49:26
Em 200 inch deer. I mean, and, and, and so to just kind of tell you why I brought that up, those opportunities are rare now. They’re hard killing a big mule. Deer is the hardest thing out there. It is. There’s no question. Yes. And so anywhere you can do that or associate with somebody and a good client that draws a tag or something you want to do, it is a drive to do it. And doing it once just makes it harder to wanna do it again. We, Jason and I, we call it, it’s like we won the Super Bowl. Yeah. You know, he’ll, he’ll kill one at the client in Nevada, maybe I in Utah. Like, dude, you won the Super Bowl today. And it’s, it’s that equivalent and, and it, and it just tease it up again to next year to wanna do it again.

00:41:49:28 –> 00:42:21:12
And when it comes to sheep, we’ve said it before, but you know, I’ve pro I’ve taken 50, 55 sheep the last eight years with clients and it’s just sheared the opportunity to hunt sheep and the places where they live. I love to do it. I’ve got a body to do it right now. I hit 60, 65. It’s gonna slow down. And I’m not gonna say I wished I’d have done that ’cause I got the body to do it. Now. I’m only gonna draw one sheep tag in Utah in my life probably. Why not take a hundred, 150 others along the way over my lifetime. Sure. So it’s just, it’s a lot of fun doing it,

00:42:21:12 –> 00:42:22:10
Sharing that experience.

00:42:22:13 –> 00:43:10:03
Well on that, on that note, it, it was really funny that you brought this up. It, I always mention that Henry’s tag, well my brother-in-law, I told him about it just because of all the research that I did and probably talking to you and your dad and back and forth. And he had 10 points, eight points. He draws the one non-resident archery tag. And I called you, I mean you were like, my first phone call I talked to Adam and, and Jason and Adam was busy. He had another client. And so my brother-in-law went with somebody else. Well I didn’t get to go on the first seven or eight days ’cause I was working, but I went on like day eight and O M G. I mean I’m, I was like, I got there and it was just like, you know, I’ve been a blacktail my whole life. Okay. We’re talking a big one, you know. Well you’re miniature mill there. Exactly,

00:43:10:05 –> 00:43:10:20

00:43:11:03 –> 00:43:34:00
You pull in and I mean, I’d seen some nice deer, dude, every corner we went around, I was just like, well, I told Lucas this. I said, God, I’m just waiting for somebody that I know to draw a Henry’s tag and say, Hey, you were there once before you, you think you’d like to go along? I’m like, dude, I’ll cancel. Like everything. Everything. Yeah. Cancel everything, all the podcasts done, done. We can dude, we can podcast. We on the mountain podcast on the mountain.

00:43:34:09 –> 00:43:35:08
That’s right. We’re on the

00:43:35:11 –> 00:43:44:24
Mountain. You know, just for that opportunity, that one getting to go. I, I, you feel like you’re part of it. That’s the beautiful part. So that’s anyway, living the dream. Living the dream.

00:43:45:06 –> 00:44:01:14
So based on that discussion with, you know, mule deer, sheep, I guess to you guys, what is your measure of success? I mean, is it truly the largest deer out there? You know, is it the experience? Is it an older class? Is it the chase? I mean, what is it about you that drives you for that success?

00:44:02:07 –> 00:44:49:04
Every tag is different. We have general seasoned deer tags ourself every year in Utah. And sometimes expectations are a little bit different. Sometimes we get tags in places where no one else wants to hunt out in the desert, but we might find one deer worth it. So for me it’s trying to maximize that individual tag. You know, antelope aren’t high on our list. I drew an Arizona antelope tag last year. It’s totally an afterthought, an add-on and has been for eight or 10 years. Well, I still, when I had it, I knew Arizona is known for a pretty big antelope. They’re way down here on my priority list But overall, I, I wanted to maximize it. And, and I went down there with that intention and, and it killing a great butt killing 87 inch antelope and Arizona. It’s, that tag is unique to that. Didn’t

00:44:49:04 –> 00:44:49:23
Have max points.

00:44:49:23 –> 00:45:26:25
Didn’t have max points. And so I draw Henry’s tag the bars and the expectation a little bit different. Two or three point elk elk unit in Wyoming is gonna be different than a unit 23 or a 10 Elk. And so for me, every tag kind of sets its own bar a little bit, but I wanna maximize it. I wanna kill, you know, when I say the best, it’s generally the higher end or else I just, I don’t kill it. My, my kids are getting to the age they can start hunting. Yeah. I, I get to take clients. We, I get to be a part of a lot of hunts and, and those hunts shooting two year old three point bucks, great. It’s static. I want to, that’s all I wanna find. ’cause they, they don’t care.

00:45:27:01 –> 00:45:27:29
And that’s a hundred percent,

00:45:27:29 –> 00:45:47:10
Just like every hunt is a different bar. And so the, it’s not all about inches. A lot of the tags maybe that Jason and I apply for and want over the years that we still are waiting for points. That’s the case. But we still have other hunts in there that we go on just to have fun and, and especially those of our kids or things like that. So it totally, the tag drives my expectations at

00:45:47:10 –> 00:46:40:14
Least. That’s exactly, yep. That’s exactly what I feel. I mean, we’re out there because we want to kill big stuff and, and of course we like to put on, you know, put our hands around some big animals. But, you know, like I hunted with my kids a lot this year and, and of course we put knocked down some great deer with, you know, also, but, but my kids’ hunts were the best hunts I went on this year. And, and you know, it’s just that it’s not, and it’s, and I know, you know, people may not believe it just because we do put a lot of emphasis on the, on the animal and we’ve named them and we’re hunting specific animals. But, but, you know, and we, and sometimes we’ll kill ’em and it’s almost anti-climatic or, or whatnot, but it’s like Adam says, everything comes together. You get the right tag, you got the right hunt, you got the right people in camp, and everything’s jiving. And, and then, you know, if, if you’re fortunate enough to be successful, then that’s really the icing on the cake. But, but it just depends on the situation, kids, clients, and us as well. Yeah,

00:46:40:20 –> 00:46:52:18
That’s cool. I, we talked about a little bit, I think, you know, success is different for everyone and that’s what makes it neat. I mean, yeah, your vision of success is different than mine. And I think that’s what makes, you know, all of this fun and what makes it happen.

00:46:52:20 –> 00:47:05:11
12 year old hunter’s vision of what happened, or even when we were 12, I remember when I was 12, man, everything that was legal should die. You know? And if I had two tags, that means I had to shoot twice as much.

00:47:05:19 –> 00:47:54:26
You know, I took one of my youngest boys on his first Turkey hunt and when we finally killed a Turkey, I mean, it was unbelievable experience, you know? Yeah. And, and for me, that’s, that’s hunt, that’s hunting, man. That’s everything to me. You know, I, I haven’t killed a Turkey and I don’t know how long and, and really to me it’s, it’s just about my kids and that kind of stuff. Now they can’t leave school like we used to. And so they’re very limited in two and three day spends. We went up to Idaho, literally had half a day to hunt. He couldn’t leave school on Friday. Had to be back for church on Sunday to keep mama happy. And we’re, so we have Saturday morning and then gotta drive home and, and we killed a deer, you know? And I mean, so anyway, back in the day, you know, Adam and I, we’d go a whole week without school for Turkey, maybe, you know what I mean? Now there’s no way they’re leaving, you know, school for a week, couple days. No, there’s even if, if it’s a Henry’s stack, you all

00:47:54:26 –> 00:47:59:01
Their sports teams and everything else they’re involved in. That’s crazy. Even a 10, 12 year old,

00:47:59:08 –> 00:48:01:06
My kid was sick. I don’t know what you guys are talking about.

00:48:02:14 –> 00:48:03:25
That works sometimes. Good point. It’s

00:48:03:25 –> 00:48:06:25
Good point. I’m just saying, they looked peeking to me for a whole week.

00:48:07:05 –> 00:48:12:06
I don’t know it, but the kids, kids, the kids feel enough pressure, they don’t wanna leave. Yeah. It’s, it’s unbelievable anymore. Yeah.

00:48:12:16 –> 00:48:33:06
So Jason, I’m sitting here, I’m watching your New Mexico hunt here, or your Nevada hunt, excuse me. And I watched the video and I think I’d send it to you too. Yeah. And such a neat storyline. Yeah. You know, finding this buck, making multiple attempts at this buck. You know, when you wrapped your herrings around that, the horns of that buck, I mean, what Yeah,

00:48:33:07 –> 00:48:33:23
It’s, what

00:48:33:23 –> 00:48:34:24
Was the exhilaration of that?

00:48:35:17 –> 00:49:20:00
I, I don’t think you can explain it. I think anybody that’s been, there’s, it’s, you know, it’s just, it’s unexplainable when things come together like that and you, and you, you target a specific animal. I mean, it’s one thing to walk around in the woods with a, with an arrow knocked and just hoping to find a buck. Right? Yep. And, and we’ve all been there. I’ve done it. I did it on the, and super thick forest, you know, where you’re just, Hey, I just want a buck. When I was younger and, and that’s what I did. Now, where’s targeting specific animals? And when you watch that animal grow, and this particular buck, you know, you do get the arrow in him. He, he does die. And, and then you walk up. I mean, it’s, it’s, we hoot and holler a fair bit, but, but a lot of it is, and you don’t see it, and it doesn’t come across on video as the reverence we have for these animals.

00:49:21:07 –> 00:49:53:01
It, it is, it’s hard to explain. You, you, you love ’em. You name them, you love ’em, you watch ’em, it’s, and then you harvest them and you get, and you get to have ’em, you know, in your house forever. And you, of course you eat them, your family eats them. But, but it’s, it’s, it’s different. It’s hard to explain the heights and lows. It totally is. It’s hard. Well, and it’s hard to explain the feeling of, of the respect and then you respect it and then why did you kill it if you respect it so much and it, it’s, it’s something I can’t explain. Yeah. You know?

00:49:53:11 –> 00:49:57:19
Yeah. And it’s okay. I mean, you don’t have to have an explanation for it. Only

00:49:57:19 –> 00:49:58:22
Hunters understand. I

00:49:58:22 –> 00:50:14:26
Saw it. It’s, it is when you ran over to that deer and sat behind it and you could just tell, you know, just looking at the expression on your face that you didn’t have to say anything. Yeah. Right. You didn’t have to do anything. Just the, the time and energy you put into these animals and it, at that time, when it pays off it, there’s no other greater feeling. And

00:50:14:26 –> 00:50:43:01
That’s kind of, that’s kind of one of those emotions, you know, you say you can’t explain it. I as a, as a viewer and as a guy that that’s dreamed about stuff and had opportunities to, to do things when I, I see you in that moment. I understand. Yeah. Actually kind of makes me emotional. You know, it’s like you, maybe you knew that deer for two or three years, you know, and when you saw him the first time, you thought, well, if that deer ever survives past the next couple of years, he’ll be great. I mean, well, and

00:50:43:01 –> 00:51:28:11
When, when you really understand it is when you, when you realize that he’s not gonna be there next year and the anticipation of checking truck cameras or glossing him up and seeing what he turned into for the first time on July 10th or whatever it is, and, and he’s not there anymore. Charlie’s dead. You know, and it’s, it’s, you know, there’s a lot that goes into this. And we’re always at him too. He on the Henry’s working all summer long for multiple years in a row. And you got bucks. He’s watched bucks for three and four years and all of a sudden, if, you know, hopefully it’s one of his clients that harvests him. But either way, if the deer does die, you know, that deer’s dead and and he doesn’t leave you like you No. Remember that deer, you, he’s still got deer that, you know, he talks about and we talk about and and whatnot because he shared those experiences with me.

00:51:28:11 –> 00:52:05:14
If I’m off in Nevada, he’s coming back from the Henrys and, and we’re sharing deer that we’ve got and found and, and, and you share in that. But, but it’s one of those things that those deer, those deer never leave you. They’re kind of a part of you. They teach you things, watching them. I watched Derrick do crazy things, walk around to Boulder 15 times before he beds, looking straight up, you know, wondering if there’s a lion on the boulder. I kill him. And he’s got great big scars across his neck. He was hit by a lion and survived there. You’re aware. And, and that deer jumped off that rock. Yeah. I’ve watched him, when a truck drives by, they, they stand, they go and move behind the bitter brush, stare at the truck. Truck got drives by pretty soon he twitches his tail comes back and feeds again.

00:52:05:24 –> 00:52:35:02
I mean, you just watch these animals and you become part of them. And, and every animal has a, a personality and every animal has a, a pattern and they teach you things and, and then to harvest them and not be able to go back and see what they would’ve turned in the next year and the next year. I mean, it, it’s unexplainable. It’s not somewhat sad, but, but also to be able to harvest them is it, it’s a respect thing. Yeah. But it’s weird to explain it. And and only hunters would get it. Yeah. I

00:52:35:02 –> 00:52:38:00
Think you sum it up, only hunters get it. Yeah. Right. And it’s, it’s that

00:52:38:00 –> 00:53:06:02
Experience. And hopefully we could introduce new people to our passion. I mean, that’s for me with the n r a, that’s the biggest thing. I wanna see these kids. I, I wanna see my kids have opportunities. And that’s the scary thing. ’cause I look at applying for 20 years and not drawing tags, you know, and I look at my kids and go, whew. That’s a, that’s a tough one. Especially when one says where we start. Yeah. Especially when one is like gung-ho wants to do it all and thinks they should automatically have the biggest thing in

00:53:06:02 –> 00:53:17:04
The world. I want a sheep this year, dad. Yeah. That’s what my son’s telling me. And he gets it. I’ve, unfortunately, they’re kind of, they’re kind of tainted. ’cause our kids, they know what we do for a living. We talk pretty frank about it. My, I’ll

00:53:17:04 –> 00:53:22:13
Bring a deer home. I be, my boy would be like pretty small dad. That’s all you could find. I mean literally

00:53:22:15 –> 00:53:24:06
Hundred 95 inch buck or something.

00:53:24:06 –> 00:53:33:12
Shawn do you, do you, do you know what you just told me? Yeah. I mean, Sean, you have killed deer like that. You know, do I have to remind you? And he’s just very critical. I mean, I love him. They’re just so into it. They’re engines.

00:53:33:12 –> 00:53:35:06
We are. But you’ve, you’ve spoiled him by bringing stuff

00:53:35:06 –> 00:53:50:13
Home, dude. Let’s like, well he knows and he sifts through the camera pictures and he glasses with a tripod. And I mean, he wants my binos. I he’s dis disgusted when not got the swirls on the, I mean, and they fight over my fifteens. I mean, and, and, and I love it. I love it. Isn’t that

00:53:50:13 –> 00:53:50:19

00:53:51:15 –> 00:53:51:24

00:53:52:02 –> 00:54:08:00
So looking at 2017, what do you guys, I guess from a, from a plan, not only from Epic Outdoors, but personally, I mean, what do you guys have planned for 17? Obviously this is like your first big year of putting out the magazine, so that’s obviously a big deal. But what else do you guys have in store for this year?

00:54:08:20 –> 00:54:09:18
Oh, as far as Epic,

00:54:09:29 –> 00:54:10:10
As far as

00:54:11:00 –> 00:55:01:06
Outdoors? Yeah. So as far as Epic Outdoors, I mean we’ve bid off a lot. We’re doing, we’re doing the monthly publication covers all the Western states, drawing on skill percentages best units. So we’re publishing that. We do a license application service. We’re buying and selling landowner tags, helping guys obtain those. We’re also brought Jeff John on, who’s my brother-in-law. He’s our booking agent proper, you know, booking agent that works with our clients, works with the outfitters and guaranteed type tag hunts to people that, that may not draw or may not apply or, or if they’re applying they would like to go on a hunt anyway with a landowner tag and an outfitter. And so we we’re doing that as well as podcasts. We’re doing podcasts we’re, a lot of our content is based off of working with the state Biologists Outfitters, the heads of these organizations.

00:55:01:09 –> 00:55:34:26
We’ve, we the directors of the game and fish agencies and, and we’re doing that which will be in alignment with our magazine as far as content driven. Working with, you know, people that are significant people within the hunting industry as well as YouTube. So we’ve got Epic Outdoors YouTube, which is up and going and we’re gonna be filming our hunts and dealing with all that. And so we’ve got some plans for the future. Don’t really want to unveil ’em yet just because Hey, that’s okay. That’s all good. Just because we’ve got a lot on our plate right now. Yeah. And we want to really refine that and get it solid and then we’re gonna keep moving forward.

00:55:35:02 –> 00:55:35:11

00:55:35:12 –> 00:55:56:00
Yeah. That’s right. Cool. And I think Lucas, you talked a little bit about our hunts. We definitely got some hunts this year that we’re, we’re trying to plan our schedule around. I hope to get an Arizona, our tree elk tag this year. We’ll see if it’s enough. My 15 points. So that one’s, I gotta throw that out there. You know, like Jason did see if the draw God do anything with it.

00:55:56:00 –> 00:55:57:08
23 north, 23

00:55:57:08 –> 00:56:00:16
North. I didn’t put in there. I did not dream

00:56:00:16 –> 00:56:04:00
That big. That question was if we had enough points and it didn’t matter, you were gonna get it.

00:56:04:14 –> 00:56:04:23

00:56:04:28 –> 00:56:07:12
Now when you have a certain amount of points and you dictate that’s

00:56:07:12 –> 00:56:08:05
For what you can get

00:56:08:17 –> 00:56:12:04
And the best of what you know, the best that you can get for us, there’s points, beautiful

00:56:12:05 –> 00:56:13:18
Bulls there. You’ll find every

00:56:13:18 –> 00:56:14:23
Unit has a good bull. Right.

00:56:14:23 –> 00:56:39:26
Great, great dates for Arizona this year. Yeah. Great moon and the archery and had a kind of circled, you know, three year, four years ago when I knew that hey, this would be a year, probably won’t be able to, won’t won’t have to guide maybe quite as much. Epic will be up and running. More dates are kicking late. And so that, that for me, maybe Arizona deer, Jason’s cashed his points in a few years ago. Maybe this is the year I do that hope this year, year, I hope playing

00:56:39:26 –> 00:56:43:02
Around that. I hope we, we’ve definitely marked that off on the schedule. So

00:56:43:15 –> 00:56:44:01
That’s to the epic

00:56:44:07 –> 00:56:45:20
Odds. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right.

00:56:45:26 –> 00:57:02:11
Those are kind of two, I, I’m also top heavy. I’ve had 50 50 drawing odds for my own desert sheep tag in Utah the last two years. Okay. So I’m not a very lucky person. Apparently it’s one year. It was actually literally me and one other guy for the max point tag and he got it. So that’s, that’s as unlucky as you can get.

00:57:02:20 –> 00:57:03:13
Alright. Wow.

00:57:03:23 –> 00:57:34:07
So that one is also a big deal in my personal hunting career life. Sure. I, I want, you know, as a sheep guide and a, I don’t wanna book six or eight hunters and draw my own tag that year. Sure. I wanna hopefully see it coming. But those are the three for me that are kind of driving a little bit of my whole application strategy. And then I alluded to either my, my kids, I have a 13 and a 12 year old, 13 year old daughter, a 12 year old son wanna kill their first deer in Utah this year with them mul there. So that’s a big, big part of my fall, those four hunts. That’s

00:57:34:07 –> 00:57:40:01
Awesome. And he can’t draw anything because when you draw two of them, he’s gonna have to, well all plants,

00:57:40:05 –> 00:57:56:00
He’s gonna have some. And unfortunately when we know the magnitude of some of these tags, you know, I drew a Utah elk tag in 2008. Jason was right there. It’s the same year he drew his desert sheep tag in Utah. So we literally went for my elk, went home, did our laundry, and went, had his desert sheep

00:57:56:14 –> 00:57:58:10
While they did laundry. That’s impressive.

00:57:59:03 –> 00:58:00:17
Oh, I like, I like clean laundry.

00:58:00:17 –> 00:58:01:19
Yeah, that’s right. A few

00:58:01:19 –> 00:58:01:23

00:58:02:04 –> 00:58:11:06
So we, we do plan around some of our, you know, we, we obviously can’t be on every one of our hunts together ’cause sometimes we’re same time, time and opposite states. Adam

00:58:11:11 –> 00:58:26:18
Adam’s deer hunt, if he draws the deer, it’ll be, it’s an extremely tough hunt. And it’s one of those we could knock down an absolute monster. And so anyway, those are the times when you, you know, you, you band together and you make it happen. ’cause he’s not gonna have this tag again. Nope.

00:58:26:19 –> 00:58:45:06
It might, it might be that, it might be a chance. I, I don’t expect a two 70 buck, but, you know, a 200 inch plus deer that, that’s what we’re hunting and we realize that when those points are gone, they’re gone. And we’ll be back to chasing average, you know, opportunity hunts or COOs deer in Arizona or things like that. Yeah.

00:58:45:08 –> 00:58:48:08
Did you guys get me all worked up here? I don’t know if I can handle the pressure anymore.

00:58:48:19 –> 00:58:53:18
Well, you got a lot of points, Arizona. You got points here. You’re hopefully dumping points.

00:58:53:18 –> 00:58:58:07
I’m, well, like I said, 20 years ago, eight or nine states started, that’s what it

00:58:58:07 –> 00:58:58:13

00:58:58:21 –> 00:58:59:23
Doing the same thing. That’s, that’s

00:58:59:23 –> 00:59:06:13
A long term plan. And, and you know, and you’ve hunted since then, so it’s not, you know, you’ve got a short term midterm and long-term plan. That’s what you gotta do. So

00:59:07:01 –> 00:59:10:20
All related to this, this table right here, you know.

00:59:10:28 –> 00:59:11:14
That’s right.

00:59:11:20 –> 00:59:52:20
Well I just want to thank you guys. You know, your insight, you know, clearly from an outdoor standpoint, there’s a ton of credibility in what you guys guys say and you know, I’m very grateful to have, you know, guests like you guys on our podcast. Not only from a technical standpoint, you guys understand the applications, you understand where people should apply based on their plans, but also from a tactical standpoint, I mean, to, to get guys on here that get it done, you know, you know, like I said, I know you guys are modest, but you know, when you look at some of the animals you guys have harvested, clearly I would, I would take, you know, information from you guys knowing that you guys have done it before. So we appreciate know from us. We, we,

00:59:52:20 –> 01:00:24:20
They haven’t said this the whole time, which I don’t know what the hell’s wrong with both these guys, but it’s a hundred dollars for a membership. Yeah. Anybody listening to this, it’s a hundred bucks. Yeah. You could pick up the phone and call one of these guys and say, what do you think about this? And they’ll give you an honest answer. I mean, if you’re max points, they’re gonna tell you, yeah, that’s what you’re going for. If you’ve got two points, they’re gonna say you’ll never draw that it, unless you don’t wanna hunt this year and you just want it the one unlucky tag chance and then they’ll direct you where you wanna go. That’s, so

01:00:24:27 –> 01:00:55:11
We try to steer guys to what, you know, to the truth. I mean we are, we’re not gonna sugarcoat things. I mean we’re all excited, but we’re not gonna try to sugarcoat things. We want you to understand and, and try to hook you up with the right opportunities that fit you. Yeah. I mean, and so we just do the best we can at it. We want, we want our members to be clients for life. We’re not in the business of, you know, we don’t wanna, you know, have turnover in clientele every two or three years. We want to deal with the same guy for 20 plus years and, and then we know we’ve got a solid

01:00:55:20 –> 01:01:28:13
Business. And, and that’s, and that’s really what I’ve tried to echo to all the people that are listening out there is these guys are gonna be here. This is their passion. They’re not going anywhere. And if you get an opportunity for a hundred dollars to lock in with these guys and just, just build 10 years from now, or maybe in my case 20 years down the road, you’ll be sitting at the table with them and they’ll be all talking about the same thing. Well now I’m at that stage where the 20 year plan is about to happen. Yep, that’s right. Kinda like, kinda like you’re talking about, you know, it’s, man, I’m gonna get that tag.

01:01:28:19 –> 01:01:55:07
The lot’s changed. I mean that when I started applying for sheep was, that was the first sheep tag I needed. And probably, I assumed that would be the first one I would draw. I’ve been fortunate enough to kill a doll and a stone and Jason and I, we both got lucky and Drew California Big Horn in Oregon. So my desert’s gonna finish me off probably in my own state when I thought that would be my first and maybe only sheep. You don’t know what a long-term plan brings, but you gotta have a, a plan when you start something. So Yeah, definitely.

01:01:55:07 –> 01:02:01:28
So how, how could people get ahold of you guys? What’s I mean, social media, internet, I mean, what’s the best way if someone wanted to sign up? Yeah,

01:02:01:28 –> 01:02:20:28
We’ve got epic underscore hunts, you know, on Instagram, we’re on Facebook, it’s epic on the web you can call in. We’ve got emails [email protected], Adam, [email protected]. Anyway, love to have you. You can sign up online and look forward to visiting to

01:02:20:28 –> 01:02:48:28
You. Good deal. Absolutely. Well thanks guys for being on. Thanks Jason for helping me co-host with these guys. I appreciate your guys’ insight. Like I said, look forward to keeping in contact with you guys, you know, as we continue to, to build more points and, and, and look for, you know, some of those different tags that are available. I think you guys can, can help shed a lot of light on some of those units and states and, and not only help us help other people out there and, and get the word out. So. Bet. Anyway, thanks guys for being on. Thank you. Appreciate it. And we’ll keep in touch.