In this episode of The Epic Outdoors Podcast our hosts Jason Carter and Adam Bronson talk with Sam Dieringer of Dieringer Outfitters. Sam is based out of Arizona and has a reputation for finding giant Bighorn Sheep in Arizona. Sam is a no nonsense hunter who gets out and works hard often turning up exceptional animals in average areas. Sam is extremely versed in hunting Arizona and what it takes to be successful in the Arizona heat. From giant rams to big coues deer we will go through Arizona and find out what it takes.

Disclaimer: this podcast has been transcribed from the original audio and likely contains errors. This transcription does not reflect the views and opinions of Epic Outdoors LLC. Please consult the original audio with any concerns.

00:00:02:01 –> 00:00:05:08
You know, they’ve been killing some Rams with really big bases in there.

00:00:05:21 –> 00:00:14:10
It’s crazy country with amazing genetics and good feed. They do commonly go to maximum point holders. Anything to do with Western big Games.

00:00:17:20 –> 00:00:18:04

00:00:18:04 –> 00:01:15:27
To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Adam Bronson and Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Anyway, got another sweet episode here. We’ve got Sam Derringer here with us. Awesome Arizona Outfitter guy that we’ve known for a few years now and have an immense amount of respect for Sam as we get started here. Just wanna thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast and sponsoring Epic Outdoors, working with them since the inception of Epic Outdoors and, and just appreciate them and, and all their support. So here at Epic Outdoors, we also book Hunts. We’re a full-blown booking agency. Of course we specialize in western big game animals, Alaska, Canada, Mexico. We deal, deal with some whitetail hunts here and there. You know, anything that’s awesome and big we’re interested in. So we deal with the guys in Kansas and Iowa and different things as well.

00:01:16:02 –> 00:02:23:29
So it’s that time of year that, that a lot of the dry results are coming out. And if you’re left with nothing or not enough in your schedule that you’d like, give us a call. Let us know the season dates you may be looking for filling a gap in or the species. And we’ll get to work or immediately give you an opportunity right there on the phone outfit that you might wanna call and talk with. Book a hunt, fill up your schedule. Yeah, we’ve got full-time booking agent, Jeff, John two. First names. He’s my brother-in-law. Super good guy, super personable, loves to talk hunting. He’s dealing with our outfitters on a 24 hour, seven day a week type basis and helps Adam and I stay on top of the openings that we’ve got available. So you can call in and visit any of us, but Jeff’s a super good guy and that’s his main responsibility. So anything you need help with as far as looking for a hunt with guaranteed tags or even if you drew a tag, Jeff, Adam or I can definitely help you. And so give us a holler. It’s 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7 or hit us up on the web epic Anyway, Sam, you on there with us?

00:02:24:21 –> 00:02:25:13
Yeah, I’m here.

00:02:25:27 –> 00:03:01:23
Good deal. So anyway, Sam, you know, I, I’ll let you kind of introduce yourself, but I know you know, Adam and I have followed you for over the years and, and know you’re just one of those guys maybe even laying just a little, little under the radar, but have Sure. Knocked down some incredible trophies, you and your clients and, and just one of the best out there. And so just wanted to kind of, you know, visit with you about some different things, especially desert sheep and coo deer and whatnot in your neck of the woods. But anyway, give us a little bit of your background and kind of how you, how you got into hunting and kind of where you’re at today.

00:03:02:08 –> 00:03:55:01
Okay, yeah, I, I grew up in Camp Verde, Arizona. There is right in the center of the state and my dad was a a, he guided mountain lion hunts a lot and just a few other, you know, little bit of deer and elk and stuff. But I grew up hunting mountain lions all over, kind of the middle of Arizona with my dad and he, he’s still still doing it today. But anyway, and then I have just lived, lived in Arizona all my life and been involved, you know, kind of hunt hunting’s, been my, been my life anyway, I started my, my own guide business in 2010. And anyway, just been going on from there.

00:03:56:20 –> 00:04:06:04
What, what part of the state now, I guess you’re, you still in the center part of the state. Where do you kind of, where do you call home and what part of the state do you spend most of your time in?

00:04:06:27 –> 00:04:37:11
Okay. Yeah, we, I live more in southeast Arizona now near Stafford, but we still still hunt all over the state. And anyway, we, we have a, my family has a ranch up in Northwest Arizona and we, between Prescott and King and there, and anyway, we do, you know, hunting around that part of the state. Just, just kind of wherever we, wherever we have to go to, to, depending on what we’re hunting. So

00:04:38:07 –> 00:04:52:08
What are some of your, I I guess even though you said you cover statewide, your lifelong residence sounds like, what are some of your favorite units? And maybe it varies obviously by species, but where, what part Arizona do you really like to, to hunt

00:04:52:16 –> 00:05:28:23
It definitely, you know, depends on what we’re hunting, but you know, we’ve hunted mule deer in northern Arizona and there’s actually some pretty decent mule deer desert, mule deer hunting around here where we live and you know, unit 27 and 31 or 32, there’s some pretty good mule deer hunting. And then we hunt, you know, 12 B in northern Arizona. We spend a lot of time on there. COOs deer. We mostly hunt 31 and 32 and 27 around here close by. And there’s a lot of good two deer hunting here.

00:05:29:26 –> 00:05:59:05
So how, how good a mule deer, I mean, well let’s just cut to the chase. Like how big a deer are we talking about down there in 27, 31, 32? I haven’t heard a lot about it, although Adam and I have definitely followed a few of the guys that are, you know, trail Cameron, some of that deep country out in that wilderness. And of course they’ve got good burn, you know, burn in there. That’s definitely put it produced some crazy feed there in 27. But I mean, what are you seeing? You know, is it, something’s good, definitely got good genetics and should be on, you know, somebody’s radar that’s willing, willing to work hard,

00:06:00:07 –> 00:06:33:10
You know, I think yeah, they’re, it’s, you know, it’s not like, you know, not the quality of the Northern Arizona units, but I mean it has definitely good potential. You know, I think, you know, any of those units, if a guy really put in the time, you know, it has 180 potential and, and there’s, you know, definitely some one 90 plus and even occasionally 200 inch bucks, you know, in these units. And so, you know, it’s for the, for as easy as it is to draw the tags comparatively, you know, I think there’s a lot of potential there.

00:06:33:23 –> 00:06:50:01
And then up there in that 12 B country course, I think you hit that after, after I hit it and maybe even before prior, I’m not sure, but, you know, lower densities and just tougher hunting. But, but has those, you know, those genetics that Arizona’s so famous for?

00:06:50:23 –> 00:07:40:02
Yeah, yeah, we just, well I had a couple of friends that worked up there on those ranches in, in the, oh, back in the eighties and they, they kind of put me onto it, but we never did to actually get a tag there until the, the year after you killed your buck. There was the first time we really hunted it and, but we’ve been there most every year since. And yeah, it’s just got, you know, amazing genetics and it’s, it’s, it’s really a low density, you know, it’s kind of a tough h there, but you know, there’s always a chance of finding one of those great bucks and what, what we really like about it is it’s, you know, super low hunting pressure. You just, you know, we’ve never had to really compete with other hunters out there just because most guys don’t like it, you know?

00:07:40:27 –> 00:07:48:07
Yeah. You’re going out there to kill a big deer or get your butt kicked and pretty much mostly get your butt kicked. One of the two’s gonna happen. Yeah,

00:07:49:00 –> 00:07:50:02
Yeah, yeah, for

00:07:50:02 –> 00:07:54:23
Sure. A lot of in between out there, so. Yeah. Well I know it’s probably been

00:07:54:25 –> 00:07:55:01
A lot

00:07:55:01 –> 00:08:36:19
Of dry days. Yeah, that’s right. Lot of, lot of tough days out there, but you can earn it and dig one up and like I said, you’re not gonna be shoulder to shoulder and see many people out there either. So I remember it’s maybe been five or six years ago, Sam, when I first met you, I believe it was in Reno at the Sheep show. And so, you know, maybe like to, to dive into the sheep a little bit with you, you’ve obviously been been around quite a bit in different parts of the state, both for Rockies and deserts. And maybe before we get into some of the specific big rams, which we know you’ve been a part of here in the, in most recent few years, let’s talk maybe about some of the units down there in, I guess we’ll just call it southeast Arizona.

00:08:36:20 –> 00:09:16:25
You’re kind of in that, that neck of the woods. It’s got the rocky blended into the desert country and some of all, so you got a lot of good opportunities there and different, different things to, different directions to go, different species to be after. Maybe just we’ll cover real quick that unit six A and 22 north, ’cause it’s a little bit out of the way, but up, you know, north of where maybe you grew up. Tell us about, you know, just general thoughts on where that, how that unit sit. Seems like things are going real well right now, very sought after tag seems to be, you know, some, you know, 180 180 5 rams coming outta that unit. What do you, what do you think about 6 8 22 right now and for Rockies y

00:09:17:03 –> 00:10:04:08
Yeah, I think it’s still gonna, you know, I’m, I mean I think this, the immediate future’s just as good as it’s been doing, you know, and yeah, like I said, I grew up right there, you know, all that country where those sheep are, we hunted lions and all, all the time when I was growing up, so I know it really well. And we’ve done some hunt sheep hunting there. We took a, a archery hunter in there a couple of years ago and got a really good ram and it’s, it, it’s, it’s, it’s an excellent unit right now. You know, they’re, I think they’ve, they’ve managed the tags just about right and there’s, you know, there’s definitely some, you know, 180 plus potential and I, you know, I think anybody that went in there and worked should be able to find a, you know, high one seventies ram.

00:10:04:14 –> 00:10:06:01
Well, and it seemed like it’s definitely a great

00:10:06:03 –> 00:10:06:12

00:10:06:28 –> 00:10:19:26
If I remember right. You know, and I talked, I talked to you a little bit about some of that country and you indicated, I mean, there’s still country of course there’s low tag numbers still country, nobody’s touched. Or maybe even people don’t know that there’s sheep in there.

00:10:20:27 –> 00:10:37:26
Yeah, well I think it’s still, you know, there’s still expanding and, and yeah, there’s, there’s definitely some, you know, some pretty good remote areas that, that I don’t think have ever been hunted yet, you know, and there’s, there’s definitely gonna keep being some great rams coming outta that unit.

00:10:38:16 –> 00:11:29:04
One thing to Mike, just point out about that unit last year, and this could very well happen again because six A seemed to be so popular right now, both hunts the early and late hunt, both tags in each season went to max point holders. So that doesn’t always mean that’s what’s gonna be the case this year, but just for people thinking of playing there, you know, you may mix it up with another second choice somewhere instead of doing both those two as your first and second, unless you have 28 points going into the draw, you’re one a rocky and you’re max, maybe that’s where you wanna hang out. That’s right. Tell us a little bit about that, that 27, you know, obviously there was that giant Ram 180 sevener and maybe not even almost a surprise, but not a surprise. I know you guys, you know, kind of think that there’s big rams in and around there, but, and obviously a lot of, a lot of big country out there.

00:11:29:17 –> 00:12:25:25
Yeah, yeah. It’s, you know, it that there, it’s 27 has, you know, well basically all of the Arizona units have pretty much similar genetics. ’cause you know, most of the transplants come out of, out of 28 and, and, and lower 27 there. And so, you know, but, but the, that the, you know, 27 that upper blue has, you know, really good habitat and they, you know, a lot they have, you know, quite a few rams come out of there with big bases and it’s, and then, you know, there’s just so much remote country that, you know, same way a lot of their sheep there that I’d think never get haunted, you know, and it’s just a lot of potential. It’s definitely, you know, probably the toughest overall unit to hunt. You know, you’re gonna have to really be able to hike or have horses to get into a lot of that country. But, but it’s a, it’s a great hunt, you

00:12:25:25 –> 00:12:32:20
Know. Well it seemed like that big rim, you know, a guy, you know, kind of day, day hiked into there pretty, you know, pretty much, I mean,

00:12:32:20 –> 00:12:52:01
Yeah. And it is, that’s some of the, you know, closer to the road. But yeah, there’s definitely some, some some country there you can day hike and yeah, there’s, there’s pretty good variety, but it’s definitely the most roadless unit. You know, the country isn’t necessarily the roughest, but it’s just, just not many roads,

00:12:52:02 –> 00:13:08:26
Not as roded and timbered and all that. So ramps can swallow up and stuff of that Yeah. Type thing. Yeah. What about the lower end of 27 South and 28 north, which is what you alluded to where some of the core, I guess is some of these rocky herds have been sourced out from

00:13:09:08 –> 00:13:46:17
Yeah, they have that the NC Copper mine, you know, the, there’s a lot of sheep that live on it and that’s where they take most of the transplants out of. And then of course, you know, all the area with surrounding, that’s where the, where they hunt and that unit, there’s no hunting on the mine. But anyway, that, that herd’s really strong, you know, it’s, it’s maybe a little behind on the, the class four rams, but you, you know, the, the overall numbers are, are great and it’s, it’s still a great hunt, you know, it’s definitely a good hunt for a one 70 plus kind of ram, that’s all.

00:13:47:02 –> 00:14:05:22
What about tele sun? Some of these desert units, I know you and I talked about this, it’s kind of new to us. It’s a unit 28 that’s now offering two tags. And of course as you know, I mean when they offer two tags, non-residents can apply for ’em and, and actually possibly draw one of those tags. But, you know, tell us about some of the desert units you like.

00:14:06:13 –> 00:15:20:19
Okay, yeah, yeah, 28, it’s definitely, it’s a great, great unit and like to say, available to non-residents now. And you know, they’ve been killing some Rams with really big bases in there. Couple of, you know, in the last couple of years they’ve killed a couple of young rams, you know, that had potential to get really big, you know, that had like 16 inch bases. And so I think in the last two surveys, you know, they survey it every three years. It’s, it’s basically tripled the, the number of sheep there and, and so yeah, that’s, yeah, anyway, it’s, it’s really doing good. And I think, you know, I think some really good rams are gonna come out of there. And then, you know, we also, you know, air VI unit 31 and 32, we, we’ve done a lot of hunting. There definitely is, is, you know, improving steadily and, and, and it’s, it’s also, you know, it’s, it’s always, you know, it’s got a history of big rams and it’s, it never has great draw, but it does usually have some tags and random draw, you know, and so it’s, and it, it’s definitely a great hunt.

00:15:21:00 –> 00:16:32:06
Yeah. That is a unit that, like you said, it’s probably that every Vipa name back, you know, everybody knows Art Dubs is ram days, you know, some of the giants back in the day not, doesn’t seem to be producing those in the last, you know, 10 years or so, but always has potential to kill, I guess a, a low to mid one seventies or, or better ram I guess if, if, you know, what’s there a specific grammar two. So what about, yeah, I know you, I know you spent plenty of time in 22 South and the 20 fours as well. What can you, I mean, 22 South I believe is the only one from a non-resident perspective of the 22 and 24 units, that’s got enough tags too, in this case. They do commonly go to maximum point holders, but you know, those, those Canyon Lake units there. Amazing. Yeah. You’ve, you spent some time in there, Adam? Yeah, I, I accompanied a, a, a friend, an auction tag hunter down there. I think that was what, 2012 and had a, had an awesome experience there with some good friends in other Arizona Outfitters down there. And, and you know, I, I know you know that country too, Sam, what’s your general feel for, for the 22 and 24 units right now?

00:16:32:20 –> 00:17:18:24
Yeah, yeah, they’re, you know, I mean if, if you, it’s, it’s just amazing, you know, it’s, it’s a, the comparing those units to the other units I’ve been in is it’s, it’s almost night and day, you know, the number of, of quality rams there. And I mean, they manage it for that and, and it has the genetics and it, it’s really, it, it’s just unbelievable, you know, the, the potential there and just the amount of really good quality rams in those units, you know, and definitely if, I mean, like you said, it’s, it’s pretty much a max point thing there to, to get those tags, but, but if a guy has it, it, it’d probably be worth waiting for. ’cause it’s unbelievable hunt

00:17:18:24 –> 00:17:50:19
There. Well, and I know maybe now’s the time, maybe why don’t you tell us a little bit about the, the special ram you were involved with a couple years ago with Tony Loop, which is, I believe now been certified panel scored as official world World record, puling Young Desert Bighorn. And so maybe just tell us a little bit about that Ram if you know, when you found it, if you kind of knew that’s the target ram we’re after, or, or if there was a couple that were in that same same league, if you, you will tell us a little bit about Tony’s Ram.

00:17:51:01 –> 00:19:00:05
Sure, yeah, yeah. We, we, we, we found a couple of rams. We did, you know, a lot of scouting before the season opened, and we, we found a couple of rams that we figured were, you know, for sure in the one eighties and, and, and liked that ram the best, but he, when the season started, it was, it was really hot and, and just wasn’t feasible to, to get Tony in there to him safely. And so we, we didn’t go after him at first and we kind of hunted another ram and, and, and weren’t able to get on him either. And so when the weather cooled off and we thought we could safely do it, we, we went in after that ram and took a couple of tries, but we were able to get, get on him in his bed one day where to get in about 25 yards of him. Tony made a good shot and yeah, I got him in and, and yeah, it’s definitely a, what an excellent opportunity to get to do that hunt and just, just see what was in those units, you know, just amazing the number of giant rams in there.

00:19:00:17 –> 00:19:06:16
Did you, did you know what you had when you walked up to him? I mean, did you just have that gut feel how big he really is?

00:19:07:17 –> 00:19:46:22
You know, we’ve, I mean, sheer, that’s the hardest thing there is to judge, I think. And you know, it’s, you never wanna say, yeah, I know for sure this ram’s this score or whatever, but, but we, we knew he was, you know, a great ram and, and he, he had some, you know, some really big chips and we didn’t know how much that was gonna affect his score and it did some, but, but anyway, he was such a big ram and, you know, he, he, even with that, he still, you know, really scored great and it, and it didn’t, the chips didn’t, you know, hurt him quite as much as we thought they might. But yeah, we were, we were definitely happy with how it turned out.

00:19:46:27 –> 00:19:50:04
What was his official score, Sam? Where’d the official score at?

00:19:51:06 –> 00:20:01:03
He, they, yeah, the panel score. They, they, they just verified the official score basically, or stuck, stuck with that. And it was 180 6 and four eights.

00:20:01:06 –> 00:20:04:22
Yeah. Geez. Do you remember what he grossed out at?

00:20:06:20 –> 00:20:11:17
They didn’t, they, they scored him for S C I and he was 180 7 and five eights.

00:20:11:20 –> 00:20:12:02
Oh, okay.

00:20:12:17 –> 00:20:14:07
That way. So I guess that, yeah,

00:20:14:07 –> 00:20:25:25
That’s pretty, pretty close. Well, you never know. That may, that may be a fracture that stands for a while. Hard be, that’s a hard, that’s a monster. You don’t, you don’t kill 180 inches very, very often, let alone with a bow, so

00:20:26:08 –> 00:20:32:20
Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard to say, you know, but I mean, I’m sure there, it’ll, it’ll be broken sooner later, but

00:20:32:25 –> 00:20:50:26
It looks like some rugged country was in, but I mean, when you talk safe, you’re talking the heat most likely. I don’t know, just give us a little feel for, you know, when you talk about taking Tony in there safely or how did you guys go in there? How’d you go about scouting in there and, and dealing with that and what kind of temperatures were you dealing with and as well as the terrain?

00:20:51:13 –> 00:21:35:07
Yeah, I mean, it, it’s, it’s very rugged terrain, you know, and then it’s the, you know, when when we were out in the first week in there, it was, it was 115 degrees some of the days, you know, and so it’s, you know, hiking three or four miles each way to that was a thing, you know, there, he, he just, the, the route you had to take to get to him, you know, it was just a, a big elevation change and, you know, pretty long hike in there. And, you know, we went in and took a closer look at him a few times, but, you know, you’d have, we’d walk in in the dark basically to get in there and beat the heat, you know, and it just really wasn’t, we didn’t feel like it was a good idea to try and take a in

00:21:35:07 –> 00:21:38:12
There. Did you walk in in the dark and out in the dark or did you just walk in?

00:21:38:25 –> 00:21:46:18
No, it’d come out, yeah, kind downhill in the, in the late late morning, you know, coming outta there. But, but definitely went in early.

00:21:48:20 –> 00:22:11:14
Well, I remember it was, it is hot. I remember I didn’t spend as much time as you a couple scouting trips down there and late June, july. And, and we headed, I think opening day August 15th, but it was 116 or 18 degrees and it’s pretty hot. You don’t wanna get caught too far out, out in the hills when it gets that hot. Yeah, that’s for sure. It’s pretty, pretty deadly. Yeah, we

00:22:12:11 –> 00:22:17:26
Starve as early as you can and you know, obviously you’re, you’re done before noon no matter what happens.

00:22:18:03 –> 00:22:49:29
Yeah, well, and not, not just the heat, but every single bush down there will make you bleed pretty much, you know, just me walking through it. You got bloody arms and shins everywhere. Well, tell us, I know we’ve, we’ve got a mutual friend of course that unfortunately passed away there, you know, a couple years ago, but, oh, Marvin James, I know Drew one of the rocky tags and killed a great ram with you. I think you, you were with him. I just kind of wanted to invite you, you know, if you wanted to take a minute, just tell us a little bit on the, the story on that.

00:22:50:29 –> 00:23:42:05
Sure, yeah, yeah. I, you know, I, I kind of knew of Marvin when I was a kid and him and my dad knew each other, but I, I never really got to know him personally back then. And, but anyway, he, he, how we really got caught together, he knew, we knew these desert units down here and he had a, a hunter draw there in Arab ipa and he wanted me to guide for him. And anyway, we had me do all the scouting and we kind of punted it together and anyway, we just hit it off and did, you know, did so together and really enjoyed each other’s company. But anyway, he, and so he, he had already taken, you know, years before he got a, you know, hit desert Ram in southern Arizona. And anyway, he a monster, a monster down. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, he did.

00:23:42:10 –> 00:24:18:23
And anyway, he would ask me about the rocky units, you know, and when that lower blue unit opened up, he, you know, I told him, you know, it’s where it hadn’t been hunted for several years. I mean, they’d had it open for a couple of years, but prior to that it had been closed for years and years. And I knew there was some older Rams in there and he didn’t, you know, Marvin was a funny guy, but he, he didn’t have the points to drew, but I mean, the draw tag, he said, you know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna get that tag this year. And, and he did anyway. Sure enough he did. Yeah,

00:24:19:07 –> 00:24:37:00
Guy had more luck coming. He was, he killed a big round in Wyoming. He’s everything he touches, and yet he’s so full, he was so full of crap most of the time. We just had such a good time with Marvin then, and then everything, oh yeah, everything he touched turned to gold. It was just unbelievable. But anyway, keep going.

00:24:38:01 –> 00:24:59:22
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, everything was fun for him, you know, but anyway, so when the, they hit the credit cards, he called me up and he said, alright, you’ve got your sheep hunter this year. But anyway, so he, he had, he actually drew a deer tag the same year, and they, the seasons butted right up. So he had me do all the, you know, scouting and I, I found a, a well,

00:24:59:22 –> 00:25:05:05
I see turned out, well I, to not to stop you, but I think that wasn’t didn’t he draw the 12 b late tag that year?

00:25:05:22 –> 00:25:06:03
He did,

00:25:06:10 –> 00:25:41:07
Yeah. And I spent 12, I spent time with him on that hunt down there. Had to endure. That was one of butt kicking years. Yeah, that was a, I had to endure butt kicking. We, you know, stayed in the trailer, it snowed on us. We tracked, geez, I think we tracked down like seven bucks in, you know, total or, or seven or eight bucks. And we tracked all but one track and, and saw what was on their head. And then glassed up a few, just a couple of small groups of do with no bucks with them. I mean, what’s the chances right there near Thanksgiving to, you know, find those without bucks. I mean, he was a tough year,

00:25:42:06 –> 00:25:49:25
You know, that’s what I think. I mean, just watching that unit over the years, I think he honestly hit it dried at its worst, you know? I mean,

00:25:50:05 –> 00:25:52:17
I know the worst year, that’s the only luck he didn’t have.

00:25:53:23 –> 00:26:50:22
Yeah. Seems like it’s getting better again now, but it was just downhill for years. And then I think I could say, I think he was right at the Yeah, the head of the got, but, but anyway, so he, yeah, he, so he, you know, the, actually the deer season ended the day after the sea season started, but he went ahead and gave, gave up his first, or his last day of the deer hunt to come sheep hunting. But anyway, so I sent him pictures of the rams I found, and, and I found a, you know, a really solid ram pretty early on in the scouting. I sent him the pictures and, and he, he just said, just keep looking. And so I, I did, and anyway, we was found about three days before the hunt, we found the ram they wound up taken and, and I sent him some pictures of it and he, he, you know, he definitely liked, liked the look of the ram and just asked me to sit on him and tell a hunt.

00:26:51:17 –> 00:27:38:26
And anyway, that, that year there was three tags in that unit. And about the halfway through the second day of sitting on the ram, which was was the day before the, or, or, yeah, the day before the season started, one of the other hunters found the ram. And, but he, he, he was at an entirely different vantage point and didn’t know I was there. And Marvin and I, we had a, he was driving down that afternoon and the other hunter was, you know, sat on the ram until dark and, and you know, planned on hunting him the next day too. And so, anyway, Marvin and I, we had all day long he’d call me. What’s he doing when,

00:27:39:10 –> 00:27:51:22
Oh, he just called Jerry every half hour. I mean, Marvin was, he burned the phone lines up if, if Verizon ever would charge you per minute, I mean, he would’ve exceeded, kept him in business. Oh geez. It was, but anyway, keep,

00:27:52:17 –> 00:28:47:13
Yeah, it was, send me another picture every time my phone being like Christmas on and on, you know, he was so excited. But anyway, and so when he got there, I told him, well, he got in late, you know, and so I knew we, we had the, you know, the hunter never did know. I was the other hunter, never knew I was there. And so I knew we had the edge, but we went, got up at two in the morning and, and, and it was, it was some tough country and we went all the way in there in the dark. And anyway, right at the crack of dawn, you know, he shot the ram and, and anyway, everything worked out good. And actually the, the, the original Ram that I had seen, the pictures of the, the other hunter around Par him, and he was, he was a giant also, you know, we, he just was, he was a little younger and had still had his tips on, you know, but more just like looks, the heavier broom ran better, but they, they were actually right at the same size.

00:28:47:18 –> 00:28:50:01
What, what did they, what did they score?

00:28:50:13 –> 00:28:59:24
They were both right in there about, I think Marvin’s was 180 5 and five eights, and the other one was 180 6, I think is what they checked out out.

00:29:00:01 –> 00:29:10:01
Geez. Oh, that’s amazing. I, Marvin talked big enough. Marvin talked about the 700 club. Do you remember, I mean, is did he enter all that? Did he actually make

00:29:10:08 –> 00:29:24:02
He did, actually, yeah. The, the year that he passed away, I was there at the sheep show and he had me pick up, but yeah, no, he had, he his four rams, you know, broke the 700 mark. I picked up the award and everything.

00:29:24:09 –> 00:29:44:20
And those are basically draw tags too in Arizona. Both were over 180 5, the desert, rocky, that’s, yeah. And obviously you’re dull and stone, you’re gonna, you’re gonna, you’re gonna buy, buy those hunts, but I mean, geez, can’t just buy big ones of those either. No, you can’t. You gotta get lucky again or just kill giants down south and then you can kill nice ones up north. Yeah.

00:29:44:21 –> 00:29:45:22
Yeah. That’s amazing.

00:29:46:05 –> 00:29:59:26
Those are a couple awesome rams that you’re part of here in the most recent years and don’t want to cut any of your other sheep units off. Are there others we haven’t mentioned that you like to spend time in Sam, that are, that you can give update on

00:30:00:11 –> 00:30:18:01
The other two that we’ve, you know, of course the 20 fours we’ve kind of hit on that. And then 37 A and B, they’re pretty close by here and they, you know, they’re, they’re definitely really good units also. And 37 a’s got a, you know, they’ve moved it up to four tags split

00:30:18:02 –> 00:30:24:23
Season this year. Twos, yep. Sheep are doing well. So have you seen some good rams recently there?

00:30:25:06 –> 00:30:35:28
Yeah, yeah, they, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a good unit, you know, I mean, I don’t know about anything like the 180 plus kind rams, but it’s definitely a good for one 70 Ram.

00:30:36:12 –> 00:31:13:22
Yeah. Yeah. Well, good deal. Well, do we wanna dive in? Maybe I wouldn’t mind talking a little bit about the COOs deer. We just brushed over ’em at the first of the podcast here, but you know, I know they’ve got a, I, everybody that’s from Arizona’s got a soft spot in their heart for ’em. And I know you and I have talked a bit about ’em and some of those giants that are rare to find and then you end up harvesting a few of them. But tell me a little bit about the COOs deer hunting and, you know, are, is it something your family does? Are you guys doing it as much as you can? I fairly easy to draw tags compared to the mul deer up north, but, but let’s talk about those.

00:31:13:27 –> 00:31:47:28
Yeah. Yeah, right near where we live, you know, there’s some great two deer units, 31 and 32 and 27 are all, you know, really good units, you know, good, the deer numbers are strong and good genetics and we, you know, we love to hum, you know, love the country that they live in. And, and yeah, it’s, and like you say, you can, even the late hunts comparatively, you know, the December hunt, most of them are, you know, right in there five or six to 10 points, which compared to a good mul deer tag is, you know, about

00:31:47:28 –> 00:31:48:25
Half pretty

00:31:48:28 –> 00:32:07:13
Low points. Yeah. And then the, you know, of course a lot of these units, the like 32, you can draw some of the hunts there on a leftover tag, you know, and, but, but any of those earlier seasons you can, you know, pretty much draw every year and, and still have a good hunt.

00:32:07:23 –> 00:32:15:12
How are you hunting ’em, Sam? Like what do you, I mean obviously you’re glassing, but I mean, how are you, how are you coming up with some of these bucks?

00:32:17:06 –> 00:32:59:28
Yeah, we just, you know, glass and glass and big country and yeah, just spending lots of time behind big binoculars and, and obviously that December hunt, you know, they’re, they’re rutting in and that definitely pulls them out of some of that thick brush, you know, where a guy gets, gets a better chance at ’em. And Scotty, my son, he’s got does, you know, down there where he does some of that lion hunting in 32, he, you know, 32, the reason I think it’s easier to get the tags there is the, you know, there’s a lot of Right. Access problems. Yeah. But he, you know, he has some of those branches that he hunts on gave him, you know, give him special access and that that really helps a lot too,

00:32:59:28 –> 00:33:08:07
You know, so if a guy were to draw a 32 tag and wanted to hire you, you could go in there and not too much difficulty come out with a good deer.

00:33:08:26 –> 00:33:31:11
Yeah, there’s definitely some places with low, you know, real low pressure or are we we’re, or hunting in there, but, but really any of those units, you know, if you get, you don’t, you know, you don’t even have to have the private land on that late hunt where those bucks, you know, kind of start sticking their head out of that brush and moving around more. It’s, you know, if you have a guy a really get off too.

00:33:32:08 –> 00:33:34:23
Do you guys, do you run trail cameras at all?

00:33:37:04 –> 00:33:40:06
Not, not much. We’ve kind of played with them a little bit, but

00:33:40:18 –> 00:33:50:12
Yeah, not a lot. So just mostly glass. And, and then how about the archery in August and January versus the early rifles, mid and late rifles on those crews too?

00:33:50:19 –> 00:34:12:13
Yeah, you know, the, I mean the, obviously the, the December and January archery hunt, you know, they’re, they’re rutting and, and you know, it’s definitely would be, you know, a lot of acts. And then, and then of course in August they’re, they’re just, you know, more docile and, and out in the open more and you know, it’s also definitely a good time to hunt, you know?

00:34:12:26 –> 00:34:24:01
Yeah, you bet. Do you, I mean, I, being from Arizona, it’s probably a bit of both, but do you personally like to hunt mule deer or coo deer more yourself?

00:34:24:22 –> 00:34:47:07
You know, I, I, I’ve always been my goal to, you know, try and kill some great big mule deer and I’m, that’s, that’s what I’ve done more, yeah. Is hunt, hunt mule deer. But, but I’m gonna, I, I have enough points to get a good mul deer tag sometime when I decide to go ahead and use them. And then I’ll probably start hunting white tails more after that.

00:34:47:24 –> 00:35:01:04
I think it’s time, Sam, you need to, you need to slow down on the guiding and Adam and I’ll come down there and we’ll see what we can knock out, you know? Yeah, of course. I know you don’t need our help. We’d probably we’ll

00:35:01:05 –> 00:35:02:06
Out there, I’ll hold you to it.

00:35:02:21 –> 00:35:05:01
We’ll probably slow you down, but Oh yeah,

00:35:05:01 –> 00:35:06:13
Right. We’ll

00:35:06:15 –> 00:35:27:19
Act off. We could at least cook dinner at night or something and tell good stories. So have you got any kind of a coo deer story for any of these big deer that you’ve been finding, know you’ve been instrumental in some of these bigger deer that show up on social media and whatnot, but just kinda you got any, you know, crazy stories of following some of these big deer?

00:35:29:04 –> 00:36:15:05
You know, the, the biggest buck we got this year, Scotty guided and him, friend of ours his age, they, they went in there and they had a really good guy, a Vietnam vet and, but he, you know, bit of failing health and they, anyway, they, and, and you know, wasn’t able to, you know, walk into some of that more remote stuff. But they had an amazing hunt with him. They, that bucky wound up killing was, it was over one 17 and they, they actually found two bigger bucks that they just weren’t able to get get to. And so, wow. Yeah, that was amazing hunt they had with me.

00:36:15:08 –> 00:36:17:18
The bucks that are alive still are really important.

00:36:18:23 –> 00:36:19:16
Yeah, yeah,

00:36:19:19 –> 00:36:24:05
For sure. Well that’s good. Did it, was it on a late season or was it earlier season?

00:36:24:07 –> 00:36:35:24
Yeah, that was on the December hunt. Yeah. And so they were, the bucks were, you know, I mean like I say that you know how it is with any rut hunt, it definitely makes things more interesting so

00:36:35:24 –> 00:37:11:02
Brings them outta the woodwork a little bit and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. So one thing I didn’t ask you on the sheep, and I don’t, unless you got something else to share with us on the cos, do you spend No, that’s fine. Do you spend much time or have you guided anybody up there on the 12 B hunt for off the PREA Vermilion cliffs or, I mean you’re probably able and whatnot, but it’s probably going on the same time. You’re stuff far down south, so maybe you don’t have time, but what do you, what are you seeing or what’s your gut feeling with sheep there? They’re obviously the Nelson, I we’re not talking about the the 180 Rams that you guys got down south, but since you do spend some time up there, I thought I’d ask you about those.

00:37:11:14 –> 00:37:45:25
Yeah, no, I think it’s like you say, I mean you just gotta adjust your expectations, but I think it’s a great high, you know, and it’s, it’s the same way. There’s, you know, it’s got a little bit of something for everybody. You know, there’s some country that you can glass from the road, but then there’s some stuff that you darn sure have to work to look at, you know, and I think it same way with the, and, and we actually know we haven’t guided a sheep hunter there, but we see him when we’re up there deer hunting sometimes, you know. And I think, I think if you know a person put in the effort, you could probably, you know, come out of there with a pretty darn nice ramp.

00:37:46:08 –> 00:37:53:28
So tell us a little bit, I know you’ve, you’ve been in on the elk too. I mean, just run us through that a little bit. Are you doing guiding any of those or?

00:37:54:02 –> 00:38:30:13
Yeah, yeah, we always take a few elk hunters every year and you know, we, we’ve just so much of the state that we’ve hunted for one thing and another, you know, we kind of get, get scattered out on our elk hunting and don’t really specialize in, in any particular unit. But, but I mean we, there’s a lot of those elk units that we’ve done a lot of hunting in and so we just kind of get scattered around. But, but yeah, we def definitely enjoy the elk hunting that have some, you know, it’s gonna be a great year for elk here. And we have a few hunts we’re definitely looking forward to this year. So

00:38:30:24 –> 00:38:45:04
I know we’ve talked about some of those other, you know, lower density areas in the eighteens and different things. And then of course you live over there in 27, which may have the biggest bull in the state right now. I don’t know. It’s crazy country with amazing genetics and good feed.

00:38:45:15 –> 00:39:12:00
Yeah, yeah, that’s right. You know, so yeah, 20 sevens, you know, for, for elk, COOs, deer, mule deer, everything. There’s just a lot of country that, you know, they probably rarely if I ever see a hunter, you know, and so the potential for any of that there, if a guy wants to get back, you know, work at it or you know, go in with the horses or whatever, there’s, you know, it’s amazing the amount of, of great habitat that’s, that’s doesn’t get hunted very much there.

00:39:12:13 –> 00:39:16:00
How big a bull, how big a how big of bulls have you been seeing in 27?

00:39:18:04 –> 00:39:41:13
It, we’ve, you know, I guess here lately that we’ve, we’ve seen bulls, you know, probably in the three 80 class, but there’s definitely, you know, I mean they’re, they definitely get over 400 there, you know, and I mean, I can’t say I know about one right now or whatever, but it, you know, it’s, it’s definitely got the potential for

00:39:41:13 –> 00:39:42:18
Yeah, just sand as big

00:39:42:18 –> 00:39:43:07
As they get there.

00:39:43:09 –> 00:39:59:17
Sandridge in the right zip code, you got reservation on one side, good habitat all around rough country. Yeah. Road, you know, roadless, you know, you just can’t burn, you can’t cream ’em, you know, outta there. Great habitat burns and just how to, I think the variety of habitats.

00:39:59:23 –> 00:40:01:08
Great mix of everything. Yeah.

00:40:01:19 –> 00:40:22:22
Yeah. Well, and then you got sheep. I mean it’s, and we’ve talked about 27 a lot, this podcast ’cause you got Rockies and you know, got, you know, deserts in the southern end and 28 not nearby COOs, a mul there, I mean, anyway, big bears down there. We haven’t talked about those I guess, but turkeys, that’s the que I got

00:40:22:23 –> 00:40:24:05
A little bit of everything. Yeah,

00:40:24:17 –> 00:40:33:14
You’ve been in the hunting industry for years and years and years, and I know you’ve been a part of a lot of things, but is there anything, you know, you wanna leave us with or, or talk about?

00:40:35:05 –> 00:40:59:29
I, I guess nothing in particular. You know, I’ve just been, been lucky to, like you say, be able to hunt all my life and my, my family, my family all, you know, every, we’ve all loved to hunt and been a big part of all of our lives and, and definitely blessed to have all these opportunities to continue to do it. So yeah, I definitely appreciate you guys giving me the chance to visit with you.

00:41:00:09 –> 00:41:40:22
Well you bet. We’ve always had great feedback from any clients or hunters that have hunted with you and, and you know, from my perception is you, you guys just seem to be doing it the old way of just gutting it out, just legit hard hunt, legit, you know, like I said, you know, nothing, nothing against some of this more trail cameras or anything else, but you guys just know how to freaking get it done and kill big stuff and maximize whatever tag it is. Like, you know, whether it’s rocky, a desert, COOs, deer or elk. Yeah. Just get it done and you know, I, anyway, that’s, that’s reputation the way I see it, so I’m glad to work with you in your outfit as well, Sam. Well,

00:41:40:23 –> 00:41:41:17
Thank you very much.

00:41:42:05 –> 00:42:09:23
All right, well, sounds good. We sure appreciate you, appreciate Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. And of course we, we love working with them and other good companies within the industry, so just try to be affiliated with the best, whether it’s outfitters or, or different companies within the industry. So, anyway, appreciate it, Sam, wish you the best this year. We expect good things from you and we would like to, you know, share a camp one of these days. We Yeah. Help out. Let us know if you get that deer tag, especially if it’s a personal

00:42:10:03 –> 00:42:13:11
Yeah, definitely. So, definitely. That sounds great.

00:42:13:24 –> 00:42:14:29
Alright, take care.

00:42:15:27 –> 00:42:16:26
Yep. Thank you guys very much.

00:42:17:11 –> 00:43:13:18
Bye. Here at Epic Outdoors, we publish a Western hunting publication nine months a year. The, the Epic membership includes nine issues of the magazine, where the first six months of the year are totally geared to breaking down all the Western states, draws their application process, their deadlines, units kill rates, drawing odds, everything that we feel is very important for you to make a calculated decision on whether you apply for that state or not, and how you want to apply for trophy for more opportunity hunts. But, but do it from a a current year perspective. We also have, you know, a bunch of different articles in there from biologists from the States, a hundred next door articles, a hundred dollars subscription, you know, includes consulting. So we deal with our clients on a regular basis over the phone, help them develop their hunting plans and any, anything to do with Western big game.

00:43:13:20 –> 00:43:59:14
Once guys draw tags they can call in, we’ll put ’em on a list, give you a list of members who’ve hunted in the past or help you find outfitters. And so, and, and we’ve got a, you know, lot of experience across the west and, and it might be that you draw a unit that we’ve got experience in, we have no problems helping you. So anyway, this is just a very interactive service, a hundred bucks a year, try to be all inclusive on Western big game. And, and of course on it from a trophy perspective, you know, we, we all like the big stuff and, and so we really try to, you know, capitalize on, on the changes that are happening and some of the different great opportunities out there. Yep. So if you’re interested, you can find us on the [email protected] or call us at (435) 263-0777.