In this Episode of Epic Outdoors our Hosts, Jason Carter, and Adam Bronson, talk with Cary Jellison of G&J Outdoors. Cary is an outfitter that has specialized in Tule Elk and Roosevelt Elk in California for years. Cary also has experience in Desert Sheep of California as well as Desert Sheep in Nevada. We also cover a lot of deer and elk units in Nevada. This episode covers a lot of great material for anyone who loves hunting the west.

Disclaimer: this podcast has been transcribed from the original audio and likely contains errors. This transcription does not reflect the views and opinions of Epic Outdoors LLC. Please consult the original audio with any concerns.

00:00:02:04 –> 00:00:04:00
Just a stud of a ram. They,

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They typically get about a hundred inches of rain a year up there. And

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Unique to California or the Elk subspecies,

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You know, it’s, it’s a little different hunting,

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Anything to do with Western big games.

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody. Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Got a super awesome guest with us here today. Just wanna throw a shout out out there to Under Armour. We appreciate them and their sponsorship of the podcast and, and co-sponsoring Epic Outdoors in a variety of capacities. And so just super appreciative of them and, and all that they do for Epic Outdoors. And so anyway. Hey, what are you doing?

00:00:46:13 –> 00:00:58:20
Oh, I’m not doing much. I’m actually, I feeling pretty good. I get Turkey season in yesterday, and the first time I’ve actually got to sleep. I first time, I’ve slept past about four o’clock and about six weeks. So that was pretty nice.

00:00:58:26 –> 00:01:00:21
Are you guiding turkeys or what are you doing?

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I, yeah, I have been, our, our shotgun season starts in March and it goes for 37 days, and then we have two weeks of archery season after you hunt ’em with a shotgun for 37 days.

00:01:12:02 –> 00:01:16:22
So does it work best to like, call ’em in or you just in blinds, you know, ambushing them?

00:01:18:05 –> 00:01:43:28
We don’t ambush. It’s all calling. It, it’s, I mean, if we’re archery hunting, we’re pretty, we’re you’re relegated to a blind, you know? Yeah. If, if we’re shotgun hunting, we’ll we’ll hike and call and sit next to a tree. It’s just way more effective. ’cause you get, you can get closer to ’em. You know, you just can’t do that with a blind if you’re walking and calling all of a sudden bird gobbles. I mean, sometimes those things are on you in five or 10 seconds. You hit a call just before you crest a rear dude. Oh, yeah. They could be on you, you know, like right now, so.

00:01:44:14 –> 00:01:47:03
Yeah. Oh, that’s good. What, what kind of birds are they?

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They’re Rios.

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Are they? Oh, that’s great. Yeah,

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They’re is. Yeah.

00:01:52:15 –> 00:02:08:13
Well, all right. As we get started here, maybe why don’t we just kind of introduce yourself, like, you know, where you’re, where you’re located now, and kind of where you’ve been and, and let’s just kind of dive into this a little bit. Like, you know, the places you like to guide and then kind of what’s brought you to where you’re at today.

00:02:09:08 –> 00:02:35:02
Yeah. So I live, I live in Colfax, California, which is about 80 miles from Reno. You know, I grew up hunting and fishing. My grandfather and dad both did that and, and I sort of fell in love with when, as was a kid, I was lucky. I lived in a place where I could actually go right out my backyard and I mean, literally hunt from my front door. And I think the first pheasant I killed was like 35 yards from my front door.

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Geez. So,

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Yeah, it was, it was pretty nice. It, my, my grades were a lot better during bird season ’cause I could pretty well hunt from September 1st till the end of January. And my parents were able to hold that over my head. ’cause I couldn’t go hunting until my homework was done. So my grades were always better then because we had doves and quail and ants. It’s no big game, but, you know, I could, a lot of bird hunting that I could do. Right. Literally from my front door. So yeah. Just kind of fell in love with it, you know?

00:03:07:18 –> 00:03:22:00
Yeah. Well, well, Colton, and so then what did you do, like initially, you know, right outta high school? I mean, how did you get into guiding for a living and, you know, versus other jobs that you may or may not have had?

00:03:23:00 –> 00:04:30:05
Yeah, so I, I, I went to college and I went to junior college for two years. And then I was offered a job as a union iron worker, and I went ahead and did that and, you know, made a good living. But after, I don’t know, I, I did it for like 17 years. I, I did it and I don’t know, the last seven years I probably did it more part-time. ’cause I ended up starting my guiding business. But it just got to the point where I was like, I’ve gotta find something better to do. And the, the, I think the, the straw that broke the camel’s back was, I was on a job one day and there was like 12 of us, and I was always in charge. So I was the only guy that hadn’t been in prison on the job. Oh, wow. And, and I was like, you know, I, I gotta find something else to do here. So my, my best friend Joe Gower came to me and said, Hey, I’m thinking about starting a guide service, what do you think? And I said, let me think about it. And then we ended up doing that together. And after a couple years he decided he was not really into the guiding, and so he quit doing it. We’re still, he’s still my best friend. And

00:04:30:13 –> 00:04:33:23
Is that how you got your name then your outfitter name?

00:04:33:29 –> 00:04:39:05
Yes, it is. It’s Gower and Gel and I just never changed it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:39:22 –> 00:04:47:03
Gotcha. So what, what year roughly was that, that you started that, and then what year was it you decided, hey, I’m going full-time?

00:04:47:17 –> 00:05:06:28
Yeah, I think that was like 95 we started and then, oh, I think I started full-time, probably, you know, I, I was lucky because I had a job where I could take off, you know, I could take off the whole month, the Turkey season. I could take off all the deer season I could take off. So that’s kind of how I worked into it, you know? Yeah.

00:05:07:10 –> 00:05:21:16
So when you started this g and j and, you know, got cranking on it, did you, I, I know you do Nevada, of course you’re do California as well, but I mean, did you always do Nevada and California? Did it start out mostly California? I mean, how did you guys No, it,

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It, it, it started out the first, the first year all we did was Turkey enemy in California. Oh, okay. And then I started doing fishing trips. And then real shortly after that, I can’t remember the second year or third year, started doing Nevada and then just kind of grew from there, you know, I mean, it just started taking off.

00:05:41:11 –> 00:06:00:26
So how many years have you been doing like, Nevada specifically and, and now maybe big game stuff in California? ’cause I know that’s, that’s what we, you know, as we’ve Jason and I’ve gotten to know you, what we kind of label you as is a big game outfitter, even though you do Turkey and all that other stuff. How, how many years you been doing the big game in Nevada and then California? Now

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I think about 20. Yeah, I think about 20.

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Yeah. That’s great. And so what do you, let’s talk about California a little bit. Like, tell us the different species that you’re guiding for. I mean, I know you’re big into the desert sheep there in Nevada. Are you doing the desert sheep units there in California? Even, I mean, I know there’s not very many tags tough to draw and all that, but are you, are you guiding in some of those, or just mostly some of the elk and,

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Yeah, I, I don’t do much in California. I mean, I, I, I did a sheep hunt last year in California. I had a guy in the Marble Clippers. You know, the only people that are really gonna hire me probably in California are my clients, you know? Yeah. Even, even though we, I mean, we went down there and we killed a bigger ram than anybody else killed in the, in the unit. And, you know, there was another outfitter down there, and we killed a bigger ram than the governor’s had killed.

00:06:51:02 –> 00:06:54:04
Did you kill, was that like 173 or?

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Yes, it was, it was

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Just a stud of a ram. Tell me about the marbles. Like what kind of, what was it like, and I mean, what else did you see? Just what did you think overall, the hunt?

00:07:04:08 –> 00:07:07:19
Well, it made me not wanna go back to Nevada and Sheath Hunt. Did

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It really?

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Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s really good. I mean, it’s, it’s, they should be giving a lot more tags. I mean, you’re, you’re seeing there was days where we’re seeing 30 plus Rams a day. Geez. And yeah.

00:07:22:10 –> 00:07:35:12
Well, that’s funny. ’cause Adam and I spend a little bit of time in, in Nevada, and we don’t wanna go back to Utah, so. Right, right. So you’re taking, you’re saying it’s that much better than even Nevada, which has a lot of sheep, so that’s amazing.

00:07:36:26 –> 00:07:41:00
Yeah, no, it, it’s really good. I mean, it, it’s, it’s really good.

00:07:41:05 –> 00:07:56:16
So you’re all open to do that, obviously, but with 15 or 20 total tags a year being drawn, that’s your, that’s the bottleneck and, and very small pool of applicants that are probably gonna, gonna hook up with you, but very capable and able to do that. So, and willing to, it sounds like.

00:07:57:16 –> 00:08:29:03
Yeah, I, I mean, I love, I love doing it, but you know, like you said, there’s only 15 tags and of those guys, you know, maybe half of ’em there might be 6, 7, 8 guys hiring outfitter. And it’s just, you know, it’s just one of those, one of those deals. Plus I’m, you know, busy doing a lot of other stuff and, and you know, I can’t do it till till January and it opens in December and, which is fine, you know, but a lot of guys, you know, that is, a lot of guys wanna go the first day. They think they need to be out there the first day to kill a, you know, a big ram. And it’s just not the case. But you can’t tell guys that sometimes.

00:08:29:23 –> 00:08:42:17
So we did feature that photo there in our magazine. We sure appreciate you on that. And anyway, was that one of the, was that the biggest ram you’d seen, or, I mean, or was there, you know, did you feel like there was a couple rams better than that?

00:08:43:25 –> 00:08:58:08
No, there was, you know, we definitely saw some Rams that are in that class, you know, whether or not they were a few inches bigger. But, you know, it’s, I mean, we were, we were trying to find 180 inch trim, but you know how that is, they don’t grow on trees. No.

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It’s rare. Rare. Do you, have you spent any time in any of the others? The, OR or Copia or, or

00:09:04:23 –> 00:09:37:07
Yeah, I, I, I have, I, I’ve spent time in almost all of them and, you know, but it’s, and I mean, I know most of them there. There’s a couple that I haven’t, I haven’t been in the sheep holes, but most of the other ones I’ve been in and spent time in. But, you know, it’s, like I said, it, it’s, I don’t really try to get any business down there, you know, I mean, if somebody calls me and wants me to do it, I, I’ll definitely go do it, but I don’t, I don’t spend any time trying to advertise it or, you know, it’s just not, it, it’s not there, you know, the business just isn’t there.

00:09:37:11 –> 00:10:26:03
Yeah. Well, you know, unique to California, switching gears just a little bit, are, are the elk species subspecies, and I know you’ve been very involved in some of those over the years for Roosevelt and Ley, things like that. So maybe let’s just take those one at a time and talk about, maybe we’ll just pick Roosevelt first. Tell us a little bit about some of your experience there, some of the bigger bulls you’ve killed. You know, some of the limitations, things like that. It is a, you know, they do have these in Washington, Oregon, whatnot. But from my perspective, California’s got the biggest, from a trophy potential standpoint as far as lower 48. I mean, you got Vancouver Island, different places like that. But, but anyway. Tell us a little bit about Roosevelt Elk and the units you may be willing to take people in, how you’ve done recently and things like that.

00:10:27:20 –> 00:11:08:21
Yeah, so I mean, I’ve done those for a long, long time that we’ve got some really, really big bulls. I think the biggest bull we’ve killed 360 3, you know, a lot of people don’t realize, I mean, the Bo and Crockett Minimum’s two 90. So I mean, you know, people go, that’s a nice bull. Well, you know, it’s not a rocky mountain. It’s a nice rocky mountain bull. You know, it’s a huge Roosevelt. Wow. And we’re, we’ve, you know, we’ve got quite a few that are, you know, three 40 plus. And it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a little different hunting, you know, they, they, they typically get about a hundred inches of rain a year up there. And, you know, you, you’re not, you know, my, my five, $5,000 cola and Dr. Binoculars are, are useless up

00:11:08:21 –> 00:11:09:19
There. Leave them home, huh?

00:11:10:20 –> 00:11:35:14
Exactly. They’re, you know, it, it’s pretty much calling and, you know, and they don’t, you know, they don’t bugle as much as, as the tuey are the rocky to do. So they’re a little harder to find. It’s, it’s a little tougher hunting. It’s, it’s not a, it’s if a guy needs to see a bunch of bulls every day, he doesn’t wanna go do it because he is not gonna see a bunch of bulls every day. But the one you see might be a really big one, you know.

00:11:35:24 –> 00:11:43:17
Wow. So tell us about that. I mean, you’re just hunting thick train. Is it just calling a lot or is it, I mean, how, what’s your technique on that?

00:11:44:16 –> 00:11:53:26
Well, it’s a lot of calling. I mean, it’s, you know, put trail cameras up and see what you can find, you know, but even that, they gotta walk in front of the trail camera when they get a hundred inches of range. Not like, you know,

00:11:54:10 –> 00:11:56:04
Not putting it up on waterhole, you know?

00:11:56:13 –> 00:12:18:10
No, it’s in area 23 and 24 in Nevada, you know, I mean, it’s, there’s water everywhere. So I mean, they, you know, it, it’s a picture of them, you know, when that’s the case. So you can, you know, I put cameras up and, you know, we’ll, we’ll catch ’em sometimes, but most of it’s, you know, calling and seeing what comes out of the woods, you

00:12:18:10 –> 00:12:25:22
Know. Yeah. Well, forgive my ignorance, but I mean, can you use trophy rock or salt or anything like that? Or is California one of those states? Can’t

00:12:25:22 –> 00:12:56:04
Do that? You know, I, I ne I never have. You can’t do it while you’re hunting. Yeah. You know, and they, we have laws like in California about baiting, you know, you can’t hunt over bait, and that would be bait, you know, you can, and I think it is, if it’s cleaned up 10 days before the hunt, you know, so I could probably put ’em out. I’d, I’d have to check, but I could probably put ’em out and then put a camera on and then pick ’em up 10 days before we started hunting. I’d probably be okay. But I’ve never done it. I’ve never done it.

00:12:56:21 –> 00:13:00:24
So which unit specifically do you spend most of your time in for Roosevelts then?

00:13:02:25 –> 00:13:23:28
Well, they changed the way they do everything. ’cause they’ve turned a bunch of these hunts into PLMs and so, which is a private land management, which is a landowner tag. And so I do now, I used to do a lot of them, but three of ’em went away. So now I, I do the northwest hunt is, is the only one that I do that’s a draw hunt is the northwest hunt.

00:13:24:23 –> 00:13:32:10
I see. And then you still able to help facilitate or set up or guide or outfit hunts with private

00:13:32:10 –> 00:14:22:27
Land tags? I’ve got landowner. I I’ve got, yeah, private land tags. I’ve got P L M tags and I, I’ve got P L M tags and I also have landowner tags. Sometimes they, there’s, there’s a difference in California, we have people call ’em landowner tags. They’re not all landowner tags. There’s P L M tags, and that’s where the landowner does habitat improvement work, according to what the Department of Fish and Wildlife wants them to do. And in exchange for that, they get landowner tags. Then there’s landowner tags, which you apply for, and you draw through a draw system and say there’s 20 tags on the northwest hunt, let’s say 20% of that number will be given to landowners that apply, that have, and I think it’s 600 acres or something like that. And I’ve got landowners that apply for those tags. And then when they draw those tags, sometimes I buy those tags from ’em. So there’s two different ways that I can get landowner

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Tag. And so when you get the tag, a landowner tag and a P L M tag to the hunter is the same thing, good for the same season, so to speak. There’s no preferential treatment on a P L M tag versus a landowner tag?

00:14:35:16 –> 00:14:47:07
No, there is the P l M tag season’s basically two months long. It’s all a September and October. You can hunt with any weapon where the, the landowner tags, you’ve gotta hunt those northwest season dates.

00:14:47:24 –> 00:15:03:17
I see. Now, in, in both those cases, are you restricted to just the, the private land only or you’ve, you, can you hunt all private land within the unit with access permission? Or is it just that one specific private landowner’s property,

00:15:03:28 –> 00:15:11:19
You’re restricted to that one specific pri It’s not like Nevada where you can go on the public or go elsewhere. You have to stay on that piece of property.

00:15:12:03 –> 00:15:22:07
So if a guy has 600 acres, then you know you’re restricted to that 600 and that’s your hunt. Exactly. Versus, you know, a little bit bigger ranch. Okay. Well that’s pretty cool. You be able have

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A, my, like my ppl, the P L M that I have is, you know, it’s, I don’t know what is it, 30,000 acres or something like

00:15:29:19 –> 00:15:30:11
That? Giant. Yeah.

00:15:30:26 –> 00:15:41:22
That’s pretty cool. You can, you know, have a big long season like that on a P L M tag. Like that’s, it’s a great opportunity for somebody. Is that something where, is there a market value established for these tags, Kerry?

00:15:42:27 –> 00:16:19:15
Well, it’s, you know, it just depends. Like the, the, those landowner tags, they don’t hold the drawing until July. And so those things don’t, the, the market value on those is not as much as like the PPL M tags where you can have those years in advance and you know what you’re getting. And guys can book years in advance. The, the landowner tags, they draw those things in in middle of July and then they’re trying to sell ’em. A lot of times they’ll have people lined up to buy ’em. But those are probably, I would say the market value of those is gonna be a little less than like a P l M tag where you, you know, years in advance if you, you know, if you have ’em.

00:16:20:05 –> 00:16:34:18
Wow. That’s crazy. And so, well a guy like you’s out, you know, working with landowners nonstop sounds like landowner is the way to go. Or at least, you know, a big factor in the equation to kill a big Roosevelt.

00:16:35:19 –> 00:16:48:04
Yeah, especially for non-residents, because we only give for our sheep and our elk, we give up to one non-resident elk tag, which means there might not even be a non-resident elk tag, but once they pull one out of the hat, that’s it. You know?

00:16:48:08 –> 00:16:55:05
And heaven forbid somebody puts in for a cow grizzly island or something and draws that. Right. ’cause that would come out as the quota, the cow tag.

00:16:56:06 –> 00:16:56:14

00:16:56:29 –> 00:17:21:02
Yeah. It’s just a tough, that makes it, the draws are just tough. It’s tough for us to cover ’em. And we talk, we talk about ’em as, you know, and, but you know, it just makes sense to do what you’re doing. And for, if a guy wants a Roosevelt to contact you and to work with you or guys like you, I don’t, I don’t know. I actually don’t know that many guys that are doing it. Is there, is there a group of outfitters doing it or anything? Or is it, is it,

00:17:21:07 –> 00:17:27:07
There’s not a lot. No, there’s not a lot. There’s, there’s more and more trying to get into doing it, you know, but no, there’s, there’s not a lot.

00:17:27:17 –> 00:18:00:25
And so are you working these landowners, like, like call, like kinda like units, like, so we have units obviously in other states and as you know, in your guiding in other states, but I mean that are known to kill big bulls or big rams or big bucks or whatever. I mean, you, you know, you’ve probably got properties that are known for big bulls, big Roosevelts, and one property’s probably, probably better than another and maybe even genetically a little bit different or the habitat or whatever. I mean, is there properties that I mean, are more valuable? Are, are you finding that, or is it something just generally speaking?

00:18:02:06 –> 00:19:08:16
Yeah, I mean the, the, I don’t know the, that kinda, there are definitely places that are different, like you said. I mean, there’s places where they tend to kill bigger bulls and you might not see as many animals and places where there’s more animals, but you might not kill as many, you know, as big a bulls. And I’ve got, I’ve got one ranch that’s, he draws land on or tags once in a while. And then if a guy draws a tag, I can guide on that ranch and, and ranch. He’s got some really big bulls. And then it just changes. You know, they, they started that northwest tent the first several years. It was amazing because those elk hadn’t been ever been hunted. Yeah. And there was, you know, there was, I mean, really, really big bulls. And now then they got up to, I think they got up to about 40, 45 tags. You guys probably keep better track of that than I do. And then, you know, the, now they’ve cut it back down, you know, so some areas have kind of gone downhill a little bit. You know, some areas are still as good as they were. And I mean, they did cut it back down, which is a good thing. The problem is they’re, they were given either sex tags in September. Well, and either sex tag in September is a bull tag. Yeah, yeah. You know, that’s,

00:19:08:29 –> 00:19:19:11
I mean, and I, yeah, I talked to him for years about it and you know, it’s, when you give an either sex tag in September, everybody’s gonna kill a bull. Nobody’s gonna kill a cow. ’cause you’re not gonna see cows without bulls.

00:19:19:14 –> 00:19:43:28
That’s right. So given these different factors here, p l m tags, private land tags, two month long seasons or shorter, within the regular season framework, the state sets, can you give us, or maybe some of our listeners a, a price range I guess for, for some of these, you know, quality Roosevelt hunts, what, what’s your price range? It’s not gonna be one set price ’cause there’s variables, but

00:19:44:06 –> 00:20:08:00
No, yeah, they, so I mean, you know, if a, if a guy wants to buy a landowner tag, I think that I’ve got those before for guided, you know, the tag and the guide fees and everything for like $15,000 before because they draw ’em in July and they can’t get rid of them. And then I’ve, you know, up to maybe say 23 5 on the other end for some of the

00:20:08:13 –> 00:20:28:12
Broader season dates maybe Right. Top end trophy potential, all those types of, yeah. So high end, high end price wise. But you know, like I alluded earlier, it, it seems like you guys as quality in California Roosevelt is really, even though you said maybe it slips slightly in some of these units, it’s still as good as anywhere I think in the lower 48. No question.

00:20:29:14 –> 00:20:31:06
I do. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I agree.

00:20:31:12 –> 00:20:59:22
It’s just an interesting way to go about, you know, picking up a tag outfitter and actually, you know, being able to hunt ’em. It, I mean, it’s just interesting, you know, a lot of these, you know, guys can do it on their own and they can apply in the draw and, and it’s a feasible way to actually get a tag and go hunting and even hire an outfitter if they need. But that’s just not the case. Like, they really need to go this route. Especially if, you know, a trophy Roosevelt Hunter needs to talk to a guy like you and, you know, plan for it and, and do it

00:21:01:18 –> 00:21:24:03
Well, and you know what I, I tell people, I mean I’ve, I, I’m 53 years old and I’ve been applying for elk and sheep in my, in California for 40 years, you know, and I’ve drawn a, a sheep in an elk tag in Nevada as a non-resident. But I can’t draw one of my home state. You know, I think it’s easier to draw a tag in Nevada than it is as a non-resident, than it is as a resident in California.

00:21:24:17 –> 00:22:14:25
Yeah. Well, you know, and we, we, as Jason said earlier, we do cover, you know, all the big game species, at least in California, we realize the odds are tough. It doesn’t matter whether they’re really hard to justify applying as a non-resident, but it doesn’t mean they’re easy to justify as a resident either. But you’re there, you’re spending, you know, minimal, you know, amount on top of a hunting license you’re gonna apply. So yeah, unique to California is the tule elk subspecies. So maybe just like we did with Roosevelt, let’s talk a little bit about the, the uniqueness of the tule. And I know there we’ll get into maybe some of the differences in a bit when we compare Roosevelt and tulle habitat and behavior rut and all that. But tell us a little bit about the hunting opportunities for Thule that exist that you, I know there’s some similar type programs as well for those. So tell us about them.

00:22:16:10 –> 00:23:12:11
Yeah, there’s, there’s definitely more PLMs for Thule’s than there is for Roosevelt in the state. You know, the, the tags are getting really, you guys know this, the tags are getting really hard to find. I mean, they’re, but they’re, they’re more sought after than anything. I mean, it’s, they’re really hard to find anymore. They’ve all, you know, we’ve also got some really good draw areas. Again, it’s, it’s really hard to draw. I mean, the grizzly island hunt, the East Park reservoir hunt, I mean, we really don’t have a bad hunt. You know, some of those hunts down south I don’t really do much with or know much about. But the way the state does it with the managing the elk and the sheep, you know, if they give tags, it’s usually a pretty dog on good hunt, you know, and they, they tend to run earlier than, you know, I, I’ve been down there at Grizzly Island before with the auction tag in July and watched elk just, I mean, screaming and fighting and everything else. You’d think it was the middle of September.

00:23:12:29 –> 00:23:25:23
Wow. Well, we noticed, yeah, a lot of the first kill pictures of the year, you know, other than some of those early sheep hunts, you know, in Canada. But I mean, the first kill picks of the year are coming from the California auction hunters.

00:23:26:08 –> 00:24:01:00
Yeah. Yeah. And it, and you know, they, they have a real problem with breaking ANRs. I mean, real bad everywhere except Grizzly Island. Grizzly Island, it doesn’t really happened much. But they, you know, they’re, they have a real problem with breaking antlers on. So, you know, if you can hunt ’em earlier, you’re a lot better off in most of those places. And, and they’re different. I mean, you, you’ll see the first time you see tulle elk running around screaming bugling in the middle of the day when it’s a hundred plus degrees, you’ll be like, what in the heck is going on here? You know what I mean? And, and they do, it’d be a hundred plus degrees and they’re running around bugling. I mean, they’re just, they’re different

00:24:01:08 –> 00:24:14:18
As we, as we talk about ’em. Let’s just back up just a little, let’s tell, talk about the differences of Tule versus Roosevelt versus Rocky. Is it just location? I mean, obviously there’s other differences, but just talk about that a little bit.

00:24:16:06 –> 00:24:56:10
So location wise, most of our, all of our Roosevelts are, are in the northwest corner of the state. Most of your tule elk are in the simple part, although we’ve got some in the northern part, we’ve killed bulls out there at Grizzly Island live on the hoof. And that’s the only place I’ve ever weighed an elk in my life. So I don’t ask me what the elk weigh, ’cause I don’t really know, but we have weighed ’em at Grizzly Island and, and we’ve weighed ’em at Grizzly Island that we’re over 800 pounds. Wow. But most of your tule elk, I think are gonna be in the neighborhood of 450 pounds on most of the other places. I mean, it’s night and day difference. The size of the body, size of a bull at East Park Reservoir versus out of Grizzly Island is, I mean, they’re almost twice the big, I mean, they’re just, it’s amazing the size difference.

00:24:57:00 –> 00:25:01:29
No, that’s crazy. They got some crazy antlers too. They just grow a lot of non typicals it seems like. Yeah,

00:25:02:10 –> 00:25:17:19
Yeah. And they’re scored differently. Their scoring system’s not the same, you know, as, as a rocky mountain. Now every, anything that comes off the fourth point or above the fourth point counts as, you know, total net score. There’s

00:25:17:19 –> 00:25:46:25
No deduction past the sword time. Yeah, no. And I know we’ve talked to you in the past about Grizzly and I and East Park Reservoir. I know you’ve killed some big bulls on some of those hunts. Again, scoring systems are different things like that. But those hunts, from what you’ve told us I know are, are pretty dang good hunts. I know you’ve killed some great bulls in East Park Reservoir, you’ve told us that’s an awesome, awesome hunt there. What some of the better bulls you’ve taken on some of these hunts, whether it be, you know, with draw clients or whatnot?

00:25:48:05 –> 00:26:16:11
Let’s see. The biggest tool that we took was at c i, he was, I think he was 360 3 or 360 2 at the time we killed him. He was number two. Number two in the world, S C I. And then we took another one. I don’t know, we took several that were Net Boone and Crockett, like 3, 3 21, I think 3 26. You know, I mean, really good bull. Good bull, I mean,

00:26:16:16 –> 00:26:25:17
Yeah. Yeah. So tell us briefly, do you have access similarly to the P l M or private landowner tags there? Like you do the Roosevelt’s?

00:26:26:11 –> 00:26:45:05
You know, I don’t, the only thing I have a, that I have access to would be guiding tulio. ’cause the auction tags, I’ve got a guy that I’ll, you know, pass along his information to guys sometimes. But I, I don’t have any P l m. I’m trying to get some, I’m working on it right now. I’m trying to get some of those. But they’re, they’re really hard to get your hands on. I mean, really hard.

00:26:45:17 –> 00:27:01:29
A lot of those tule elk, are they just, are they just out in that wide open country that’s glassell compared to the Roosevelts? I mean, is that generally, you know, just looks, a lot of those pitchers just seems like got in the desert. Adam and I haven’t actually, you know, hunted ’em. And so they’re kind of interesting.

00:27:02:19 –> 00:27:16:22
Yeah, it, it’s, they typically live in more open country, you know, a lot less rain, you know, you’re not getting a hundred inches of average rainfall a year, you know, they’re a lot easier to hunt for sure. Yeah. A lot easier to hunt.

00:27:17:00 –> 00:27:22:24
Have you been on some of the rocky mountain elk hunts at all? Or had any, any of your clients draw anything up there? No, I

00:27:23:02 –> 00:27:38:25
I, they’ve got some really big rocky mountain elk up there and I kind of stay away from up there. I’ve just got so much other stuff going on. They kill some really big bulls up there. Giants on the northeastern. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They kill some, some really big bulls up there, but I, I don’t, I don’t do anything up there.

00:27:39:12 –> 00:27:49:10
What about that same part of the states where some of the, well the bulk of all the antelope punts are located similarly. Do you spend much time getting any antelope punters up there? Yeah,

00:27:49:22 –> 00:28:14:07
I, I, I, I do do antelope punts up there. The problem is, is a lot of times by the time the California stuff comes out, I’m already booked up in Nevada with Antelope hunt, so I can’t do ’em. I gotcha. ’cause I usually have land on her antelope tags in Nevada and then draw guys in Nevada. And, and there again, it’s a lot easier to draw an antelope p as a California resident in Nevada than it is to draw a, a, you know, a tag in your own state. Yeah.

00:28:14:19 –> 00:28:31:17
What do you think in terms of units, I mean, you’re a resident there, you’ve guided some there some, what do you think? I mean there’s, we covered pretty much all the antelope units there, so I guess there’s not a lot of surprises, but do you have one that you favor or like more than the other, or a couple that you think are some of your favorites for better antelope?

00:28:31:23 –> 00:28:44:22
I, I, I like the laughing and likely tables. You know, those are the two areas I like. And it, you know, I mean, I know ’em know ’em better and, you know, there’s, there’s some really good antelope in there.

00:28:44:29 –> 00:28:49:18
When you mean good, like you’re talking, you know, is there a few book heads taken there each year? Oh

00:28:49:18 –> 00:29:01:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There is. I mean, you know how that is. They don’t grow on trees. There’s no guarantee you’re gonna kill a Bo and Crockett antelope, but you definitely, definitely, they’re definitely there. I mean, there’s definitely some there.

00:29:02:05 –> 00:29:38:20
Well, what about, I know your operation in Nevada, you spend, you have, you take a fair number of deer hunters around the state. And so in California, maybe you don’t have the time to do that many, but maybe talk with us a little bit about that. And if you don’t, what you still feel, you know, is a, is a worthwhile hunt. I know, you know, when we’re comparing all, all mule deer hunts throughout the western US and then you get to California, the, the list isn’t super deep in terms of trophy u trophy units or comparable trophy units to every other state. But give us your thoughts on California deer I guess.

00:29:39:24 –> 00:29:45:18
So in, in a couple words. In a couple words, it’s not worth doing, you know? Well, so,

00:29:46:01 –> 00:29:55:13
You know, I I, I, I’d probably talk for 30 seconds there ’cause I was talking to a California resident, I didn’t wanna offend you, but since Yeah, you’re, you’re talking openly. No, it pretty much sucks. So, so here,

00:29:55:13 –> 00:30:24:07
Here’s the deal. Here’s, here’s the deal. I mean, and, and it’s not that we don’t have some really big beer. We do. I mean, there’s, you know what I mean? Yeah. There, there is some, I mean, and I, I got a picture of a deer a few years ago on trail camera that was, oh, he was probably a 200 inch deer, but he had 13 points on one side and I think 11 on the other. And, but it’s, I haven’t had a deer tag myself in my, in this state for over 20 years. I have max points. Holy

00:30:24:14 –> 00:30:24:20

00:30:25:01 –> 00:30:57:24
Part of it’s ’cause of what I do. We, we, we don’t hunt mountain lions. So our deer population is just a fraction of what it was like when I was a kid. Wow. And now they’ve outlawed hound hunting of, of bears, you know. So, you know, what happens is a lot of people don’t realize, a lion goes, they say a lion kills a deer a week. Well, around here a lion kills a deer, then he buries it, and then they’ll typically eat a couple more meals off it to last in the week. Well, around here they eat it, eat, they kill a deer, they bury it and the bear comes and eats it, and then he’s gotta go kill another deer and then another. So our lions probably kill a hundred deer a year,

00:30:57:28 –> 00:31:07:25
You know. Oh my gosh. Well, so it’s just, so with a, a resident with max points, like what, what are you applying for? We might need to adjust those units, help you adjust those to get drawn

00:31:08:28 –> 00:31:13:14
For, for yeah. For a resident with max points in California. Yeah.

00:31:13:14 –> 00:31:17:29
Like, well, what do you like, what do you, what’s your goal? Like, what do, what’s your favorite go-to,

00:31:17:29 –> 00:31:59:06
You know? Well, I would probably, and, and I’m just, I’m, I’m probably gonna wait until I get done guiding, you know? Yeah. And then, and then go, I would try, I would say the Doyle muzzle letter hunt is a good one. The Devil’s Garden Hunt is a good one. You know, the, that good Dale Hunt, which is the one everybody thinks is the best on this day, I think it’s overrated. I’ve been down there a couple times. It’s been a week down there during that hunt. And I think it’s overrated. You know, they used to kill a few really big deer in there, but the, well, I mean, it’s hard to find a a four by four in there. I mean, there’s a lot of three by twos and big fork horns and big, you know, the genetics are just, they need to do like you guys do on the Henry’s and have management hunts in there, is what they need

00:31:59:06 –> 00:32:06:28
To do. Yeah. You’d still have people using max points on it, you know, the people do ly some people just don’t care, you know, especially the residents. Absolutely. So,

00:32:07:14 –> 00:32:08:10
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:08:10 –> 00:32:39:14
Your, your odds there with Max points this last year doing like one in 15, you know, that’s not, not that great considering, you know, you know, what it, what it really is. So, you know. Right, right. You brought up the Henry, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna go with it for a bit. I know we talked to you about every year about, you’re one of the, one of the hand couple handfuls remaining max point holders for deer here in Utah. And so what you’re telling me is you’re, you’re not treating California’s max points at all, like you are, you’re Utah deer Max points,

00:32:43:09 –> 00:32:43:29
You’re funny.

00:32:46:00 –> 00:32:54:00
Just wanna be clear on that you’re not, you’re not, you don’t plan your whole fall around what you might draw for deer in California then you don’t plan your own fall? No.

00:32:54:09 –> 00:32:57:00
Okay. No, no, you don’t.

00:32:57:17 –> 00:33:11:04
All right. Well, we’ve frowned on California quite a bit, but yeah. So what are you gonna do? And you, you know, we did talk a little bit about some different scenarios to try to get you drawn. It looks like game and Fish is always considering something like that. You never know what it might change to.

00:33:11:15 –> 00:33:42:20
Yeah, I, I mean, I’m hoping, I read a lot of letters this year and I’m hoping they change that where I can, you know, have a shot at drawing an archery tag where they give a max point archery tag, but every other year or, you know, whatever they decide to do. I mean, it would be nice to have a shot to, to bow hunt. You know, I just, I went on my buddies hunt a couple years ago and, and with a rifle on, I just, you know, he was 200 yards of a deer and somebody shot 1,250 yards at it, you know, four times. And I just, I just didn’t avoid that.

00:33:43:05 –> 00:33:46:18
Yeah. So you’d do more of the archery muzz or something like that.

00:33:47:13 –> 00:33:50:04
Yeah, the archery muzzle letter’s. What I’d prefer to do. Yeah,

00:33:50:13 –> 00:34:03:14
Absolutely. So you’ve killed, I know, you know, over the years, you know, you’ve helped guys kill, I don’t know, hundreds and hundreds of deer in Nevada and, and in different places. But what would you be holding out for Carrie? Like what are you, what are you looking for?

00:34:04:13 –> 00:34:51:13
Well, I mean, according, according to what you guys tell me, I should be able to kill the, you know, I mean, I know what I saw over there when I was there during the rifle season, and I know by then a lot of ’em are gone. You know, we, my buddy, we had my buddy on the deer that, oh, we thought he was like two 20 and we had another deer that was like two 20, I think they said it was 2 23 when they killed it. They killed it opening day. And we were hunting this other deer that was our backup deer. So, you know, the, you know, our backup deer was killed the first morning. And our, our other deer was being hunted by another outfitter. And you know, they ended up shooting at 1,250 yards and we were 200 yards of it. So it’s, I just, it kind of soured me on the whole Yeah, the whole rifle hunt back there, you know, but I, I would, I would hope to try and find some, some of those, you know, a deer like that to go hunt whether or not I can kill it, you know, and you’re bow hunting, it’s not that easy.

00:34:51:14 –> 00:35:03:12
And I’m, I’m a, I’m a mediocre bow hunter, so I’m pretty good at finding them, but, but I’m not, I’m not a guy like, you know, one of my clients, Walt Palmer, that can kill stuff at a hundred yards. I’m not that way, you know.

00:35:03:19 –> 00:35:21:08
Well, you’re definitely the archery and muzzle loader hunt down there, definitely the better hunts. And you’ve been down there enough to, to get a feel for that and know what got taken off the mountain by the earlier hunts before you guys got there. So we wish you luck. We shouldn’t, maybe in the next week or so, we’ll know some drive results here in Utah. So good luck.

00:35:22:00 –> 00:35:23:14
Keep my fingers crossed. Tell

00:35:23:14 –> 00:36:26:20
Us a little bit about your Nevada hunting. I know, you know, you’ve done some of these odd units for elk. I call ’em odd ’cause they’re not the, you know, traditional Ely units that everybody talks about. But take us through some of those units that you guide, guide in on, on that, give you a little break off California and talk about something really fun. Yeah, so anyway, maybe like the, and not that California’s not fun. We go there and vacation once in a while, so anyway. Right. There’s a few good things there. And I hate to, we have, man, we actually have a lot of members from California. It just, you know, it’s just, it is just tough from a non-resident perspective. And so I hate to, you know, bag on it too much, but there’s a lot of good people from California, but even, even you guys, you know, get frustrated with your own state. So, but anyway, talk about like the oh 6 1 0 7 1 or the oh six is, oh sevens just kinda some of the different units and kind of your take on some of those. I know you’ve been super successful in some of those, you know, like I say, odd units, they’re not odd, but, but different units that are maybe not the non-traditional trophy units

00:36:27:09 –> 00:36:52:28
The last two years in area six on the muffler hunt, we’ve taken the three 70 and a 3 93. And then, you know, the area 16, we’ve taken quite a few bulls, like three 30 to 360, about the same up in area seven, area eight, the oh 7 6 7 7 7 9 0 8 1 hunt.

00:36:53:05 –> 00:37:02:22
Yeah. Okay. And then on the area 16, how are you hunting it? Are you going back in on horseback, you just backpacking it? How are you doing it? You

00:37:02:22 –> 00:37:18:15
Know, both hike in and we, it depends on the client, you know, it depends on the client we’ve got, but we hunt country that a lot of guys just don’t hunt at all, you know? Yeah. And some of the stuff that, I mean, we, I’ve hunted over there before in five days and not seen an nail cutter, you know.

00:37:18:24 –> 00:37:22:27
Wow. So you’re even some of the lower stuff that’s not, not necessarily a backpack hunt,

00:37:23:24 –> 00:37:44:01
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re sometimes, we’ll, we’ll go in and, you know, do that if we’ve got a guy that can do that, it, it depends on what we’ve got, but most of the time we’re just camping and, you know, hunting from a camp and, and going that route. But we don’t, we don’t backtrack into the wilderness area or any of that area in, you know, do horses in Wilders, Wilders area.

00:37:44:21 –> 00:37:51:29
Oh, okay. All right. What are some of your, what’s your, your favorite, you know, your favorite hunts to hunt up there for elk?

00:37:53:07 –> 00:37:54:00
For, for Nevada?

00:37:54:05 –> 00:37:55:00
Yeah, for Nevada,

00:37:56:02 –> 00:38:17:01
You know, I, I, I’d say the, the, that area six muzz lit hunters by far, by far and away our favorite, favorite, you know, then in 16, some of those early hunts they have in 16, they rotate ’em, like this year they’ve got an early rifle hunt in, in an area 16. And that’s a, that, that’s a hard one to beat, you know?

00:38:17:08 –> 00:38:38:16
Yeah. That’s a tough one to draw too. But that early hunt does give a guy an opportunity with a rifle. But how do you, how do you think that that August 16th archery there in the oh sixes ends on the 31st? Generally, you know, generally archery hunts allow you to hunt the rutt. That’s gonna be a little bit tough. I mean, but what are the pros and cons of, of hunting bulls that early with a bow?

00:38:39:00 –> 00:38:53:08
Well, it’s, it’s different. You know, I wish, I wish they’d do it in area 16. If they do it in area 16, I’d be really excited about it, because you know, that, that, that August 16th when you find a bull, he is gonna be there every day.

00:38:53:22 –> 00:39:15:08
Day. Yeah. Okay. So basically, you know, early season you’re gonna, they’re just stuck to water and you’re gonna be able to, you know, prec, scout ’em, hunt ’em, and kind of hunt ’em before they move to Rud or chase cows. Sounds like, tell us, you know, kind of why you were liking that early arch ran the August 16th, 31st, the pros and cons of that season. What a guy should, I mean, is it good, is it something you would do yourself? I mean, you feel like you’ll kill a

00:39:15:21 –> 00:39:34:06
No. Yeah, no. So yeah, it’s, it’s, I mean, I think it’s a, it’s a, it’s a different hunt, you know, so you’re gonna be stalking animals and, you know, when you’re guiding an archery hunter, stalking, I don’t care if it’s deer or sheep or elk. It, it pretty much, you know, you find as an, as a guide, you find the animals and then you say, go get it. You know? And, and

00:39:34:14 –> 00:39:37:16
So yeah, it’s a lot more up to the hunter from that point on instead of

00:39:37:18 –> 00:40:12:06
Yeah. Yeah. You know, with a gun, you take them and you lay down with ’em and you say, okay, go ahead, take your time. And then you’re right there with him where with a, with a bow hunt, you know, you’re, you, you know, he’s gotta go do it. So it just depends on a guy’s ability to stock and you know, what kind of bow hunter he is, where when you’re calling stuff you can do a little more for the client, you know? So there’s, there’s pros and cons to it. You know, the, like I said, the elker, the elk are typically there, you know, when you find an elk, you know, you can find him again that time of the year where when you get into that transition period where they might be traveling 20 miles to rut, you can certainly lose a big bull.

00:40:12:19 –> 00:40:21:06
How about the glass? Very glass in there. I mean, it’s big country. Huge country. And I know there’s some big deer in there too. Yeah. But it’s glass. Yeah.

00:40:22:01 –> 00:40:23:28
Yeah, it’s glass. It’s definitely glass.

00:40:24:07 –> 00:40:28:12
How about, how does it compare to, from to, to oh 6, 1 0 7 1?

00:40:30:27 –> 00:40:39:25
You know, the oh 6 1 0 7 1, I don’t do much in, because I don’t have that forest service permit, but it’s, you know, it’s a be it’s a better hunt than oh 6 1 0 7 1.

00:40:40:03 –> 00:40:52:18
Okay. All right. Well, cool. And then you said definitely, definitely like the muzz loader hunt. Is it just, is it these dates of September 1st to the 16th? I mean, what makes that muzz loader hunt in your mind?

00:40:53:20 –> 00:41:14:18
Well, the, I mean, the, the dates are good, but, you know, the, you guys can shoot a little further than they can with a bow. That’s, that’s probably the biggest thing, you know, the, you know, the date, the dates are definitely, definitely help. But the, the, the fact that they could shoot a little further, I’d say that’s, that’s probably the biggest part of it, you know? Yeah. I, I, I,

00:41:14:29 –> 00:41:23:21
No shortage of good bulls. I mean, no shortage, obviously. You’re killing a three 70, a 3 93. I mean that, those are intense bulls. That’s awesome. Y

00:41:24:04 –> 00:41:34:26
Yeah, no, it’s, it’s, it’s a good hunt. It’s not, you know, it’s not one of the ones that are the, the more popular ones as far as big bulls, but it’s, there’s some big bulls in there for sure.

00:41:35:00 –> 00:42:06:29
Well, that’s great. Tell us a little bit about deer, which I, I know Nevada’s a little bit unique in that you already have quite a bit of, quite a bit of hunter’s probably booked up because of the outfitter drug. I draw Nevada with the regular draw still to come. But tell us about some of the units you typically like to take the bulk your deer hunters in. I know you’ve, you’ve got a lot of units in the state. You probably can guide and do guide, but tell us ones that you think you really tend to maximize. You think the tags out for the guys that you get booked there.

00:42:08:08 –> 00:42:39:18
Yeah, so I mean, most of my guys that come hunt with me, I, I put it in the guide draw, like you’re talking about. I, I drew 14 guys this year. So I’ve got 14 deer hunters already booked the, but I’m not hunting the areas that produced the 200 inch deer. You know, we’ve never killed it. We’ve never killed the 200 inch deer. I mean, the biggest deer we’ve ever killed. We actually, last year we killed 194 inch deer, I think, you know, but these are guys that want to go hunting. And I’ve got one guy’s drawing a deer tag in Nevada, seven years in a row, rifle deer tag

00:42:39:18 –> 00:42:41:08
Through the guide drill. So right

00:42:41:08 –> 00:43:19:20
Through the guide drill. Yeah. Yeah. So we hunt, we have a lot of different areas. ’cause some of my guides live, you know, in one part of the state, and some of my guys live in another part of the state. So it, you know, but we hunt the central part area 14, 15, 16, and 17. We hunt those a lot also area six, seven, and eight. And then we also hunt like over on the west side, on the California border area two o we hunt in oh three one, you know, and we’re even, we even go, we’ll even go down there. I, I’ve been putting guys in for 2 31, 2 41. But you know, even in the guide draw, that’s a, that’s a really hard draw. There’s

00:43:19:20 –> 00:43:26:20
No, there’s no good deer over on this side, Kerry, just remember that. Just remember that.

00:43:26:25 –> 00:43:32:07
Well, a a couple of my guides do 2 41 tags last year, and they, they disagree with you.

00:43:32:16 –> 00:43:36:13
I know, I know. How did, did they, did they do okay? Did they do pretty good?

00:43:37:11 –> 00:43:52:17
They did, yeah. They, Joe killed like a two 13 deer and, and Rick killed, oh, he was like a 32 and a half inch buck, non-typical, just a cool deer, you know, old deer heavy, you know, just not a great scoring deer, but a just a really cool deer,

00:43:52:17 –> 00:44:25:29
You know, I saw a picture of Joe’s buck and it is such a stud. So anyway, tell him congrats for, but, you know, tell us about this, like the oh three one, like, I mean, it used to be those, oh, threes did awesome. That corner of the state was amazing and, you know, and it wasn’t, I mean, even, you know, not too long ago, and even in my life, I’ve, I’ve known it where we were sending lots of guys there and they were killing 200 inch deer. It’s just never been the same. But what are you see in there? Why isn’t it like it used to be? What do you think the factors are over there?

00:44:26:05 –> 00:45:21:20
You know, honestly, well, I mean, you know, there’s a lot of things. I mean, that, that fire probably, you know, that, that might have something to do with, that was a pretty big fire they had in there a few years ago, and I didn’t hunt it back when they were killing the, the big deer. So I can’t really speak to that. But I mean, I can tell you what, I’ve hunted it the last several years and, and getting, and I’ve got clients in there again this year. And, you know, I mean, I’m telling guys we’re trying to find 170 inch deer, you know? Yeah. And I mean, I’ve seen some bigger ones in there. We, I was scouting for the Governor’s Sheep tag a couple years ago. We, we had the California Bighorn Governor’s tag, and I was, I was scouting up there, and I, I did see a deer in there then it was probably 180 5, maybe one 90. Yeah. But, you know, the, I, I don’t know. I don’t know why, you know, a lot of those, a lot of the areas, all the areas down in central Nevada the same way. I mean, most of those areas I hunt, a lot of them have, you know, now the last couple years they’ve been better, you know, of course we had some rain that helps. Yeah. You know,

00:45:21:23 –> 00:45:56:19
The whole state’s been better, you know, but yeah, you did. You’ve, you’ve done, you’ve done really well in 14, 15, all that country. And, and I know you’ve been backpacking, hiking like crazy. Of course, I visit with Loter quite a bit with about it, you know. Yeah. And, and he’s doing some of those hunts for you. But tell me a little bit about Area six late, you know, obviously some great bucks in there, seven late’s, been some, been having some good deer, and then the eight, you know, oh eight one, and some of that country seems to be coming back and doing really well. What are you seeing? Do you like ’em? I mean, what’s your thoughts on those?

00:45:57:20 –> 00:46:24:13
Well, yeah, I love ’em. It’s just, you know, it, it’s the getting a tag is, you know, there’s not that many tags and it’s, it’s, it’s tough, you know, to get it, you know, we, we had a guy in there last year, and he was, he was, oh, I think he was like 73 years old. In fact, he, he killed 109, like a 34 inch buck. That was like 1 94 up there in six eight. And he actually passed away about four or five days after the hunt. Geez,

00:46:24:18 –> 00:46:24:26

00:46:25:01 –> 00:47:06:10
Geez. Yeah. Yeah. It was a, but the seven late and six late and oh eight one, I mean, I, I’d rather hunt all those areas than 14, 15, 16. Yeah. You know, 17. But I mean, it’s just, you know, most of my guys, like I said, they wanna go hunting and, and you know, they can draw a tag down there. So I put all those guys in for those choices, you know, the first three choices. And then the last couple, we put in some easier ones so they can go hunting. And so, you know, they’re tough to draw, you know. But yeah, I, I, I love those areas. I mean, there’s, you know, to kill a 180 plus deer. I mean, those are, you know, they’re definitely very good AR areas and you might get lucky and killed a like that guy last year and kill a one 90 plus deer and you, and there’s 200 inch deer and then you can get lucky and kill one another, you

00:47:06:10 –> 00:47:43:25
Know? Oh, there are, I think there was an absolute monster kill at oh sevens last year. But anyway, yeah, just one of the best deer killed in the state. So it’s, there’s great potential in some of that. Anyway, just, it’s awesome. Of course, any deer tag like you say there in Nevada’s, you know, kind of, they’re, they’re sought after fairly hard to get. And, and it’s, it’s good. There’s guys like you that are, you know, putting guys on tags every single year. That’s, there’s something to be said for that in this day and age. So what about Antelope? Are you, you guiding antelope there in, in Nevada quite a bit. Tell us a little bit about that and, and your thoughts there.

00:47:44:29 –> 00:48:39:10
Yeah, I’ve been, last, last two years, the, an hunt’s been really good and we’ve killed Boone Crockett Antelope both years. We killed two Buna crock up last year and one the year before and, and hunting. I’m, I’m hunting some of the central areas that, you know, most people don’t really talk about. Oh six area 14. Yeah. 14, 15, 16 area 14, 15, 16. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh six, oh, you know, area six, area seven, you know, that kind of country. I also went up there in oh three one and I hunt in area two and area four, you know, but I actually, to be honest with you, I prefer that central stuff. I mean, it’s, it’s easier to draw and, and I mean there’s, we’ve, we’ve killed some pretty well we could, last year we killed a 84 inch antelope down there in Central Nevada, you know, I mean it’s, you know, they don’t grow on trees. Yeah. You know, but,

00:48:39:10 –> 00:48:44:01
Well those are big enough, you know, anything 82 plus is big no matter where it’s living, so.

00:48:44:17 –> 00:48:45:10
Right, right.

00:48:45:10 –> 00:49:49:23
Anyway, well last I guess, but not least want to talk about sheep a little bit. I know both Jason and I are very fond of them, as we know. Are you, and you’ve been a part of many awesome hunts in Nevada, both for the California big horns like you’ve talked about briefly, and then desert sheep killing some, some giants there. So it seems like for us, you know, we’re very busy. We’re not full-time outfitters like yourself and, and go out and, you know, take as many hunters a year. So if we can end up taking one guy or two a year in the end of Nevada sheep season, that’s a perfect end to our year because, you know, the end of November, the weather’s usually better than it is here in Utah and you know, nobody’s quite ready to be done hunting by November 20th. So, but for you, I mean, tell us about some of your thoughts. The way we see it just seems like right now things have collectively almost never been better. I mean over, you know, 300 tags a year, over 30 non-resident tags a year in Nevada. So hard to not, you know, look at Nevada as one of the best desert sheep states going right now.

00:49:52:29 –> 00:50:37:17
Agree with everything you just said and except, and, and I might add that, I mean, I just, there’s nothing I’d rather do than sheep hunting. I know you’re the same way, Adam. So it’s, you know, I mean there’s just nothing better than sheep hunting. So I totally agree with everything you said and you know, the, the hunting is excellent. You know, it’s funny because you get these guys that draw a tag and they call, and you know, they read about sheep hunting and maybe they’ve never been, or maybe they’ve been and they’ve been on difficult, she hunts or unsuccessful she hunts or, you know, somewhere in Canada and not seen a ram or you know, something like that. And they’re like, well, I’m gonna shoot the first legal ram we see. And I’m like, that works. You know, or they think it’s too difficult to apply for physically and it’s just not, you know.

00:50:37:17 –> 00:51:05:15
And so we’re kind of spoiled in Nevada. I mean, as far as the, the physically the ease of, you know, what you can do with a guy if, if he’s not in as good a shape and the quality of the sheep and the numbers sheep, you know, you’re, you’re gonna, you know, I tell guys you’re gonna see Rams every day unless we have a storm and we can’t see the mountain, you’re gonna see Rams every day. And, and it’s, it’s a lot of fun and it’s, if I could make my living doing nothing but that, I’d do it. But unfortunately there’s not a long enough season and not enough tags.

00:51:05:20 –> 00:51:14:16
That’s right. There’s, there’s plenty of tags, but not, like you said, not enough, you know, in four weeks you can’t, you know, book a year long salary worth of desert sheep hunters.

00:51:14:16 –> 00:51:22:11
Right. Not enough. Yeah. There’s, there’s a ton of, I tell all my clients in California, you got a better chance of drawing a sheep tag in Nevada, I think, than you do in California as a resident.

00:51:22:13 –> 00:52:12:04
Yeah, I, I would agree. Well, and like you said, you know, you can, the biggest thing in Nevada is generally you gotta know what’s available in the unit that the guy’s drawn, but, but really just don’t get, don’t get in a hurry. A lot of times some of the hunts we’ve been on hunt late, even in December, they go, you know, just as, just as good. Now if you have a pre scouted ram or two, it’s always nice to be right there opening day and take care of business and, but, but you’re right, moderate to easy access and, you know, guides and outfitters can really just put your hunter at ease knowing you’re gonna kill one. Just let us wait for that really, you know, a step above ram so to speak, so that you’re, you know, maximizing your tag out. ’cause you’re gonna kill a sheep there. There’s not very many places where somebody’s gonna be in over their head in Nevada on a sheep hunt, so.

00:52:12:15 –> 00:52:43:22
Yeah, no, I, I totally agree. I mean, that guys will ask, what’s your success rate, man, when I tell ’em it’s a hundred percent they say, we’ve never had an unsuccessful. And they’re like, really? You know, and it’s, it, it’s not, ’cause I mean, we’re pretty good at what we bigger reason is because of what you just said, how good the hunting is, you know, and, and they manage the, you know, they manage it very well and give a li limited number of tags and you know, the, I’m like you, I I prefer to hunt. I don’t know about you guys, but I, I prefer to hunt later in the season at, you know, I prefer to not go on the rat race.

00:52:44:09 –> 00:53:05:27
Yeah. Especially some units I know like, like, you know, the muddies and others that got 26 or 30 tags. It, it can be like a general season deer hunt driving around on that thing, the opening weekend. It’s, it’s not like a once a lifetime desert sheet hunt, the what you would think it would be like. So yeah, you know, 30 days use the season wisely and you’re gonna kill a nice ramp. So,

00:53:06:09 –> 00:53:18:09
Yeah. And you know, the number of tags is one thing. It’s a, but then each guy, each in, each tag holder’s got, you know, five or 10 people in camp with them, you know, and so it, it, it puts a lot of people in the mountain

00:53:18:17 –> 00:53:34:11
As we kind of come to a close. Do you want, do you have anything you want to add or like any crazy experiences you wanna talk about or something just way cool, you’ve been involved with so many kills and of course a lot of trophy animals as well and just, I don’t know if there’s some kind of story you wanna share with us.

00:53:35:16 –> 00:53:37:05
Oh my gosh, how much time do we have?

00:53:38:03 –> 00:53:41:01
Like, well, if it’s really good carry we sit here for another hour.

00:53:41:29 –> 00:54:31:14
Well that’s, yes. I do this for a living. My wife used to tell me I should write a book because the stuff that happens is just unbelievable. And, you know, some of the, I don’t know, I mean, one time we had, we were Roosevelt elk hunting and, and there was myself, one of my guides and the hunter, we were bow hunting and we were walking along through these trees and all of a sudden my guy, who was the third one, I was, I was in the front, you know, and I, and my eyes are up a hun looking a hundred yards in front of me, which is about as far as you could see. And we walked up on this bear and I mean, it was about two yards. And my guy’s, I mean, he must have been deaf because we weren’t being that quiet, you know, and my guy’s like, Hey, hey. I’m like, I, I’m stopping. He’s, hey, hey, hey, so stop. And he’s trying to get me back and I’m looking a hundred yards in front of me. I’m thinking there’s a bull right there. And you know, we just about walked right to the top of and had to be a deaf bear.

00:54:33:14 –> 00:55:00:12
Well, we sure appreciate you. It’s appreciate your time. If you’ve been, you’ve been in the industry as long as I can remember, you’ve got a lot of experience, I’d encourage anybody out there that’s listening that’s interested in California elk or any of the different species, especially here in Nevada as well, you know, to visit with Kerry. He’s always, always willing to visit with people and super personable and a lot of knowledge to, to share with us. So anyway, just sure appreciate you Kerry.

00:55:01:01 –> 00:55:06:22
Yeah, no problem. Appreciate you guys and everything you guys done for me and, and no problem at all.

00:55:07:03 –> 00:55:11:10
Okay, well good luck in the draws bunch coming up here soon. So hope to hear good news from you.

00:55:11:23 –> 00:55:13:01
You guys too. All

00:55:13:01 –> 00:55:13:16
Right, thanks buddy.

00:55:14:11 –> 00:55:15:22
You bet. Take care. All right, bye.