In this episode of The Epic Outdoors Podcast Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, and John Petersen talk about developing a personal application strategy. Drawing tags in the west can be complicated and takes planning and preparation. Jason and Adam help understand the basics of the western states and their draw systems as well as how Epic Outdoors can help you make the most of your time and tags.

Disclaimer: this podcast has been transcribed from the original audio and likely contains errors. This transcription does not reflect the views and opinions of Epic Outdoors LLC. Please consult the original audio with any concerns.

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First thing you gotta do is develop a personal hunting strategy.

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It’s very complicated and every state’s different, but that’s what we love about it.

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Some are strictly a random, even if they give points. It’s just another name in the hat.

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Anything to do with Western Big Games.

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Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody. Jason Carter here. Adam Bronson, John Peterson, all part of the Epic Outdoors crew. Of course, we work with Chris Peterson as well. John’s brother, he’s awesome. He’s filming all this and he’s responsible for all the digital portion of all this. And of course, Jeff, John. A lot of guys have dealt with Jeff John over the last year or so, finding Hunts. Jeff deals with our outfitters and manages openings and helps guys find hunts. So anyway, super appreciative of him as well. As we get started here, we just kinda wanted to introduce ourselves, tell you a little bit about what we do as far as the license application portion of our business. So here at Epic Outdoors, we do a lot of different things. We do a magazine, covers all the states, breaks ’em down in relation to Western big game hunts, as well as we have, you know, hunts for sale with guaranteed tags, whether it be landowner tags or other private land avenues to be able to obtain tags and hunt on properties. And we work with a lot of outfitters on the draws as well. So if you draw tags, we work with outfitters and of course want to help you obtain some of the best hunts with some of the best outfitters in the West Canada, Alaska, Mexico. So anyway, but today we want to visit about our license application business portion of Epic Outdoors and kind of go over some different things and kind of tell you about us and how we do it. Yeah,

00:01:43:23 –> 00:01:59:27
I think we also wanna talk about just drawing tag tags in general. You know, it’s a lot different in the west than it is in the east. A lot of times it’s easier to get tags in the east here, out west you’ve gotta have a strategy. You’ve gotta look at multiple states and in order to, to go on good hunts every year.

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Yeah. You know, we can hunt general deer, general elk, you know, maybe a few antelope here and there on an over the counter or general season tag and get every year. But for the most part, if you want a trophy type hunt, you know, for, for deer and elk and antelope, you gotta, you gotta pay some dues. You can get lucky. Every state draw system’s different. That’s our job to break that down. You know, how their state system works if they give a percentage to bonus points, applicants versus random, all those types of things. But you do have to develop a strategy. And some of those are short term, midterm and long-term plans. If you wanna hunt sheep someday, you better not get in a hurry.

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That’s a long term strategy. In fact, some guys might even argue it’s a 40 year strategy. Adam and I like to think it’s more like a 20 year strategy. Give us some hope. Yeah. And of course we’ve been the benefactor and have been able to draw some tags that were surprises such as organ. We both drew organ, I don’t remember what your drawing odds were,

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1, 215 or something like that.

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They were like one in 4 0 9. So anyway, beat the odds. Of course, Oregon for sheep doesn’t have a point system and so it was just luck of the draw, not not, you know, didn’t have the, the, you know, ability to gain points and have a better drawing odds as, as the years went along. It was just a straight one in 4 0 9, 1 in 200 something. So anyway, we beat the odds on that and just proven to ourselves as well as others that people do draw tags this year, like every other year. Our license application guys drew a lot of awesome tags. It was amazing how many

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Guys, that’s fun when you get to apply some of those guys and they draw, it’s as if you drew a little bit, you know, you get to celebrate.

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You can’t beat Adam to the phone. Adam’s Adam can’t wait. It’s a little like Santa Claus. You’re, you’re telling guys what they got. And, and it’s one of those things where, you know, we feel like we drew it ourselves because we’re going through the motion for these guys that are busy in their everyday schedule. And we actually choose most people’s units and analyze the odds and, and look at their hunting schedules and, and try to apply them for hunts that they can go on. And so then when the draw results come out, it’s, it’s awesome to us too. Like it’s, it’s one of those things that, you know, it’s kind of a little perk on our side to be able to, you know, help guys draw tags and feel like we were an instrumental, an integral part of that process.

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Well, and, and the reason I think why we can do that is we do it ourselves and have for decades. And so when we do have some of those experiences happen like that, you’ve been dealing with some of these guys for years and whether they’re 75 and they finally draw their desert sheep tag and they’re gonna finish their grand slam, or they finally draw a long way to meal deer hunt that they think they can finally hunt a 200 inch deer. It’s all part of their personal strategy that we’ve been able to help them accomplish. And you know, they’ve entrusted us with, you know, our level of expertise to help make it happen. It’s our job to understand their needs and wants and match that with available units in, in different states. They should be doing a lot of these guys, maybe they’ve accumulated points prior to, to having us do their applications. So they’re trusting us with a lot of portfolio with what they’ve accumulated. It’s, these points are like gold, they’re like money. Yeah. They they really are. Yeah. Sometimes you’re

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Talking lot money you get to 10 points in

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In some these states. Yeah. You’re, you’re talking, you know, when it came to time, mul deer, 10 to $20,000 tags, they’re 30,000. Yeah. Henry Mountain’s 80 or a hundred thousand dollars tags.

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If you can buy your way in some of these, you can’t buy your way in.

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That’s right. So in sheep tags, you know, you’re talking in some of these states, you’re equivalent 75 to $150,000 if you were to go buy that same tag at a, you know, while sheep foundation auction or something like that. So 20 plus years of of trying to draw that tag Yeah. Leading up to that. That’s right. So it’s something we take very seriously here, both for ourselves and, and also the clients that entrust us to use their applications. So, but like we said, the first thing you gotta do is develop a personal hunting strategy. You, you have to have something in mind of what you want. A lot of people, if they don’t live out west, they have a, a dream of wanting to come out here. They want hunt elk, they want hunt, arch tree, elk, whatever you do, we start off with, you know, trying to offer them break down what’s important to you right now.

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Maybe nothing is, sometimes it’s, Hey, just build me points for now realizing that no state makes your points species or unit specific or weapon specific. You just accumulate points. But for the other, you know, the majority of our guys, they’re trying to draw tags every year. You know, they’re not just, hey, build me points. And so we have an interview with them at least once a year, but as many times a year as we need to, to go over their schedule, their plans, what they have booked already, what, what, when of time they need to block off or, you know, weddings or family trips or whatever. Just like we do in our own lives. When we get to January or the first of the year, we all evaluate our own points and things where we’re sitting. Right. We kind of pencil off a couple units, you know. Yeah. Jason, I mean you’ve, you’ve drawn desert sheep in, in Utah, you pretty much knew when you’re about to draw. Yeah. Like me and my elk, you and your Arizona deer. There’s certain states with the way their draw system marks, you can start your annual plan on those.

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That’s right. Yeah. Just like Adam’s saying, you know, it’s a, it’s quite a process to get it all figured out and to figure out what to do. And we all wanna hunt this year and we all wanna hunt next year and then we want to hunt, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 years down the road. And so how are we gonna get to that point? And so, like Adam’s talking about, there are general season tags you can hunt every year over the counter. And a lot of you guys out there may be from the East coast and have started hunting the west by going to Colorado over the counter for elk. And, and that’s, there’s a lot of guys that do that and they enjoy that every year while they’re doing that. That’s a hunt. Great. Got that one checked off. I always go October 21st to the 29th on the second or whatever season you choose and get that over the counter.

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So block that out, let us know. And then I can go every other month other than this timeframe. Or you might have your white tail hunts that you like to do in the rutt with over the counter tags back east. Great. We block out November. I can’t draw November. No problem. As we go through your portfolio and go through all the different applications that we apply you for, we do not apply for November. And, and some guys know they get landowner tags, they might come on A-C-W-M-U here in Utah with an outfitter that we recommended or whatnot. And so we know you’re busy in September and so we tailor your applications to you and your hunting schedule every single year. Adam and I especially, we have John and Chris and other guys that that visit with some clients as well. But Adam and I usually deal with 95% of all the applications and all the hunt strategies for all the different clients of ours.

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And we take pride in that. That is something that we feel like we’re good at. We’ve been doing it for 20 plus years for ourselves as well as other clients. And so we’re well versed in how each state’s system works and, and we work on the drawing odds. Of course we write it for the Epic magazine. So it’s one of those things like we’re doing it no matter what if we didn’t have a license app service, we’re still crunching all the data. And so we, we feel like it’s something we, we basically for the first six months of the year, maybe even one month December of the prior year work on and our crunching data for a living sometimes 16 hours a day each of us and crushing it for our magazine. And so we’re well versed in what’s out there. The availability on different things is what, whether it be general season tags or landowner tags with outfitters that we work with, or maybe it be draw tags like Adam’s alluding to. And there’s a lot of the best opportunities to hunt out there for the average guy is through the draw process. Yeah.

00:09:44:09 –> 00:10:07:04
And you can’t beat having that type of experience. I never put in an application for myself without running it past you two. It’s just, you know, a resource that I have and, you know, any of our members have that resource as well to be able to do. But you know, you guys are up on the, the, the latest changes everything. If, if there’s something that, you know, I might be interested in, you’ll say, Hey, you know, John, what do what do what if, what about this unit? Have you thought about that?

00:10:07:14 –> 00:10:54:11
Yeah. And Adam and I do it to each other. A lot of times we’re, you know, our offices are side by side and, and there’s just things you, what about this? Or what about that? And this is what we live for. This is all we do. Whether it be even on our time off, which we don’t clock in ’cause we own the place. But even on our time off, even on our time off, we’re thinking about strategy and how to get a tag for a 200 inch steer or the opportunity to hunt a 200 inch steer, the opportunity for three 50 plus bulls. And Adam, Adam Case in point has drawn a tag this year for Arizona on a unit that he knew roughly knew he was gonna draw because we analyze the odds so heavy and it’s a, and it’s a unit. We know there’s some giants, maybe even the biggest bull in the state of Arizona. So there’s just awesome opportunities out there for roughly 15 years worth of points.

00:10:54:12 –> 00:11:41:22
Yeah. You know, and that, that brings us to that planning type phase. There are some states that are predictable because of their point system. Some are strictly a random, even if they give points, it’s just another name in the hat. But there’s other states like, like Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado that give either a portion, or in Colorado’s case for deer now all their tags to the people with the most points. So from, you know, maybe I’ll ask you in a minute, Jason, but that’s usually what I first look at when I go into my application year. I’m like, what? We’re usually looking ahead to a year or two in advance sometimes knowing what season dates are gonna do in a certain unit. Like Colorado deer dates or in this case Arizona. I knew the elk was gonna shift a week later. Yeah. All the archery dates

00:11:42:02 –> 00:11:43:19
And we look at the moon phase like you did.

00:11:43:19 –> 00:12:32:25
Yeah. The moon phase is good that always, none of that can hurt you. So I kinda had it circled and I knew I probably would have enough points this year and I, I want, why not? Wait, I could’ve maybe drawn it last year. Wait one more year, have a, the hunts sink it six days later. That’s probably gonna hopefully pay off. So usually I, I analyze the ones that I think I could be guaranteed or very close to that I have to then plan around everything else. Because those are hunts that I’ve usually waited a lot of years to draw 15 years for elk. Jason, I believe when you drew your desert sheep tag, it was, you know, 16, 18 points back then was Max or whatever, you know, I’m up to 21 now in Utah. I know that’s another one I have to plan around because I wanna, that may be my only desert sheep in my life and I don’t want to draw it in a year that I’ve got a bunch of other things going and I’m turning tags back in and I’m not doing it justice or whatever. So. Well,

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And there has been years when you’ve had a 50% draw on that and you lost the coin toss. Yeah. And so there’s times

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And then I have a wide open schedule. Yeah. ’cause I planned on drawing it, but

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You planned on it and you’re like, Ooh. And then you didn’t draw. And there are some of those times when you cannot predict, you know, who’s gonna cross over. Yeah. So you can kind of say, okay, these are when there’s only a few tags there, it only takes three or four or five applicants to cross over. And then your odds are a mess. But generally speaking, a lot, in a lot of cases, especially we love Colorado for this reason, is that you can tell when you’re gonna get drawn. You count on the sheep, goat, and moose. You cannot, I mean that’s more of a random draw, even though the points help you. But deer, elk, antelope, you can That’s right. Look at those odds. And you can predict,

00:13:12:00 –> 00:13:55:15
If you’ve got a gr rule points in those units, like 18 to 20, you’re in the more of the driver’s seat. But if you’re in the no man’s land, just apply. But, but that’s usually how we approach it. And so obviously if you’re just looking at applying in the west for the first time, some of those things don’t really apply to how you’re gonna develop either strategy for 2017 or 18. ’cause you, you’re not in the driver’s seat with a bunch of points. But if you do have points spread out and we’re not talking, some states like Colorado, two, three points, you’ve gotta guarantee deer tag if you want it in certain units. That’s right. It doesn’t take 10 or 15. I just, we gave that example because I was simply holding out for something that I wanted and it took me that long. But there’s other units in other states, you know, general deer, general Elk in, in Wyoming. You wanna go every other year you go, you can go hunt every other year.

00:13:55:19 –> 00:14:00:19
And the same thing with some of those late season bull hunts in, in Arizona. Even though you waited 15 years, I could

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Have went twice or three times.

00:14:02:03 –> 00:14:27:18
Oh yeah, absolutely. Some of those are, some of those late seasons are 7, 8, 9 points. And, and so if you want to go hunting, you can go hunting. And that’s the one thing about the west, it is scary for a lot of people, even residents. Residents of the west, even people that live here in the west because it’s, it’s, it’s very complicated and every state’s different. But that’s what we love about it. I love knowing that Colorado, I can plan on a few things and then I love the randomness of

00:14:27:21 –> 00:14:27:28

00:14:27:28 –> 00:14:42:04
New Mexico. Of New Mexico. I love the randomness in New Mexico and I don’t want ’em to go to a point system. And then Idaho, I love the randomness in Idaho and forcing you to choose sheep, goat or moose. And if you do one of those, you can’t do deer, elk can antelope. I love that. It’s cool. It’s different. Yeah. I

00:14:42:04 –> 00:14:43:05
Like the variety too. And

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Yet we get to, you know, work on the point squared system in Nevada, you know, although I hate it because it feels like it’s so hard to draw. Yeah. And all five choices count in Nevada. And so we’re thinking about those things nonstop. It makes a big difference on, on, you know, what the state looks at when they’re actually pulling applications. And it makes a big difference on our choices.

00:15:04:12 –> 00:15:31:25
So I know Jason, in some of your, we’ve talked about some of the guaranteeing tags, like this elk I drew, you’ve had some of those experiences in the past and so some of them you still are very top heavy on others. You’re back in the draw and your philosophy of changing or your strategy probably changes. It changes, yeah. Once you burn your points, you have a different mindset. You’re not protecting 15 or 20, you know, elk points in a state. Yeah. You want to go back more often. Probably the second or third go around. So, well we can, well how do you look at it? Your first,

00:15:32:00 –> 00:15:51:06
You know, first of the year, I can’t decide. I can’t decide. You know, we could, we, there’s a couple ways to go through this podcast and YouTube episodes that we’re doing here, but we could either go through the states alphabetically and kind of crank what our thoughts are in each state. Or we could just go through what we’re thinking and what we do. You know, species by species, what you thinking. Let’s

00:15:51:06 –> 00:15:52:17
Do both a little bit. Let’s start with the states

00:15:52:26 –> 00:16:40:22
And just the overview a little bit through the states. Okay, well for, you know, for starters, let’s just talk Arizona. I’ve drawn my deer in Arizona, had max points. It was 2007. And so by Adam and I analyzed it, John was probably in on it. ’cause you know, John’s been, John and I have been, you know, in business together and working together forever for many, many years as well as Chris. And Chris is our videographer and he and is all a part of that as well. Much. But anyway, we knew I was gonna draw much. It was one of those things. Adam and I, you know, analyzed the odds and, and I didn’t hunt the traditional Arizona 13 A, 13 b like everybody was doing. I wanted to draw, but I wanted, I didn’t want to compete out there. And so anyway, ended up, you know, there was a big pair of sheds found and I had max points and it switched units.

00:16:40:25 –> 00:17:51:18
Big pair meaning 300 inches. Yeah. Kind of big solid. And so that’ll work good. Solid buck, probably in his prime. Anyway, ended up applying for that unit, which was 12 B and not that 12 B12 B does not hold a candle to 13 BI totally understand that. But I was after one deer and, and Adam was in on it. He, he arranged his vacation, so to speak. Of course he was working with us at the time and, and, and, and adjusted the hunts that he was guiding and, and going on personally to, to accompany me on that hunt. ’cause that’s a once in lifetime type opportunity. Much like his will be here in the near future when he drops. So yeah. Anyway, went out there, couldn’t find that deer. We went out and killed another big deer that we didn’t know about. But case in point on that is being able to capitalize, having the points to capitalize on an opportunity when it comes available. I had max points and then we, a big deer set of sheds is found. I can draw that tag. And I think that’s kind of part of this. Sometimes we go through our application strategies and maybe we don’t know why we’re, I’ve got 16 antelope points in Colorado. Not a huge fan of hunting antelope. Okay. I I, they’re okay. I’ve killed a few. I like ’em. Adam’s killed a giant now he’s kind of addicted to them, but

00:17:52:12 –> 00:17:53:16
Anything big’s alright, you

00:17:53:16 –> 00:18:36:04
Know. But having said that, I’m gonna keep gaining points just because I never know. And then maybe there’s some big buck founder or maybe there’s a great opportunity on a ranch and I know I can get that tag. And so for a little bit of a minimal non-refundable fee each here I can gain points and, and know that I’ve got a hunt someday down the road. And so with Arizona, I’ve drawn an early rifle tag for elk clear back in 2000 and unit one. And then I, and then I gained up my points again, another 15 years worth of points. I drew unit one archery and had a great hunt. Killed a 3 55 bull, killed a 360 7 the first time I drew it back in year 2000. So great opportunities there. We continue to gain points. I continue to gain points as well as you guys for, for the sheep there.

00:18:36:08 –> 00:19:00:04
We’ve not drawn any sheep tags, you know, like I said, I burned my elk points this year, be my first go around on a big bull down there. So I’m looking forward to that. I got totally lucky last year just for the simple, it used to be $7 and 50 cents now $15 for each species added antelope probably eight or 10 years ago. Yeah. You know, just because, well I’m buying the license, I might as well do it. Lightning struck, I drew unit 10 last

00:19:00:04 –> 00:19:08:03
Year and then literally struck, you know, antelope may seem easy to draw in a lot of places. Yeah. Arizona, it’s like drawing a sheep tag. They’re extremely tough to draw.

00:19:08:03 –> 00:19:28:04
That’s right. So just totally got lucky. It was an afterthought. You know, I, I’ve hunted antelope a few times in my life like yourself. They’re fun. I don’t base my whole fall around them. Right. And but, but when I drew that one, it was in a time I had nothing going on. And hey, if you’re gonna hunt a big antelope, Arizona is a good place to, to throw your name in the hat so to speak,

00:19:28:04 –> 00:19:28:28
Till an average 87.

00:19:29:12 –> 00:19:30:22
It was awesome. It was fun.

00:19:31:09 –> 00:19:39:23
So, but Arizona in general would probably summarize as, as probably even there’s a lot of opportunity over the counter art trail. It’s, I drew cruise deer. Yeah. You drunk cruise

00:19:39:26 –> 00:19:55:28
After my big deer tag. Yeah. Then I know I’m not gonna draw the strip again. And so I did CO’s deer and drew co deer. Now I’m gonna do an archery deer. And so there’s, there’s other tags, not just two units in the state. 13 A and 13 D Yeah. There’s plenty of other tags and plenty of upper, all other opportunity with 10 and less points. That’s

00:19:55:28 –> 00:20:07:15
Right. So both ends of the spectrum. Extreme trophy quality and a lot of opportunity. You just gotta be realistic in Arizona and you know, an expensive state, $160 license and then $15 per species all online.

00:20:07:17 –> 00:20:23:24
Generally speaking, other than my cos deer and Adam’s elk this year, you can’t plan on those. But there’s a couple you can plan on. And, and I plan on my co deer. I I analyzed the odds knew I was gonna draw, Adam knew he was gonna draw his elk or at least have a 50% chance or better depending on who crossed over. Yeah, that’s right. And so

00:20:24:06 –> 00:20:41:16
I did wanna make a point you said on that Arizona deer, you, you knew that a shed was found. Yeah, well our license app clients, they can take advantage of that because it’s not just once, you know, every 10 years that you hear about something like that, you and Adam are taking 50 calls a day.

00:20:41:18 –> 00:20:41:27

00:20:42:05 –> 00:20:45:27
There’s stuff that comes across your desk that the general public doesn’t know. Well

00:20:45:27 –> 00:21:15:28
There are things and Adam and I do and that’s, and that’s a very good point John, Adam and I do hear about x amount of 200 inch deer killed in 22 of Colorado. Yeah. Okay. Not being in this business, we, or if we were just out on the streets, we wouldn’t hear about these. We don’t have people calling and telling us this, oh by the way, here’s live pictures of this and this and this and this. And so we get to learn a lot. And then, you know, as a result, I think it does make a difference on where we’re applying guys and our knowledge base. That’s right. And staying up to date, like these things.

00:21:17:01 –> 00:21:23:28
Over 15 years of when I started applying for this, I wasn’t applying for the same unit. I ended up drawn. No, you weren’t. You know, and you, you were probably bounced around 10, unit

00:21:23:28 –> 00:21:24:17
Nine. I

00:21:24:17 –> 00:21:33:10
Bounced around just you, you played for 15 years on 13 b and a and then moisture or set of sheds, burns, boom, you move and drew that year it was totally

00:21:33:10 –> 00:21:49:28
Different burns and feed in your unit. All kinds of things change. And all of a sudden, you know, units that weren’t good years ago are now crazy. Gunnison gets killed off by winter or whatever. Things are evolving and changing nonstop. You’ll always, this strip will always have big deer. Okay. You don’t need to pay us a hundred dollars to learn that. No,

00:21:50:02 –> 00:21:51:19
I’ll just tell. Or Henry Mountains in Utah,

00:21:51:22 –> 00:22:06:28
You know, Henry Mountains in Utah, it’s pretty good unit. But having said that, the Oak Creeks come on all of a sudden heavy boom here we kill a 230 inch deer, two 2210s, tons of good bucks for very few tags offered percentage wise the Oak Creeks probably did better than the Henry’s

00:22:07:05 –> 00:22:07:16
Number of

00:22:07:16 –> 00:22:10:10
Tags. Yeah. And you know, percentage wise. And so there’s cool things that

00:22:10:10 –> 00:22:13:18
Are, but if we know somebody’s got those points or they’re coming up on that, you could

00:22:13:18 –> 00:22:14:03
Draw the Oak Creek,

00:22:14:25 –> 00:22:15:04

00:22:15:04 –> 00:22:23:05
We switch you or, or we know this guy’s, he’s gonna draw. But we know that there’s a unit that something special’s going on or we hear a tip.

00:22:23:20 –> 00:22:36:23
And, and keep in mind our members and license app guys and and our members of the magazine, we take as much pride as they do in them drawing ties. They might not feel it, it’s them personally, but we do, ’cause we get the stories, the photos and the accolades of doing a good job.

00:22:37:01 –> 00:23:06:29
And really they’re not hiring us to just get my applications in. I mean that’s part of it. They’re hiring us, draw me the tags I’m after. That’s really what they’re, so we’re not just filing applications and getting ’em in so we don’t miss the deadline and just build them the points and then we’ll do it again next year and all that. We, none of us do it for that reason. It’s, it’s expensive to play the game in all these states. The the goal is to get drawn on the tags that fit my criteria. Your criteria or our clients. That’s really the goal. Well,

00:23:06:29 –> 00:23:22:03
And a lot of it is we look at it as if we were that person. Yeah. So we go through our notes, we make copious notes every time they call in. We’ve got all that. And then we’re looking at it, Hey, this guy is a mule deer lover. He’s killed four over 200, probably not gonna apply him for average units. Yeah. He

00:23:22:03 –> 00:23:25:27
Doesn’t need 1 75 or 80 buck. And, and he only, he’ll eat a tag and go home.

00:23:25:28 –> 00:23:35:13
Right now even though, you know, our personal, you know, position and, and where we’re at in the application strategy might be different than that guy. Guy. We put ourselves in his shoes

00:23:35:22 –> 00:23:52:11
And every year it can be different. You know, if you, if you book a mo you know, a couple years ago we went up, went moose hunting with Jerry doling that shoot away two weeks in September. Yeah. I did points only for elk in, in Arizona that year because I didn’t wanna draw that the same year I had that. So every year is different based on what you have going.

00:23:52:18 –> 00:24:04:25
And some states don’t allow you to do points only. So you do a hardest to draw application strategy hoping you don’t draw because you’re doing a dueling moose hunt. And so there’s a lot of that goes on. You might not do elk in New Mexico when you go on doing Yeah. ’cause there’s no

00:24:04:25 –> 00:24:27:07
Point. There’s no point. You can sit out Idaho and New Mexico good draw states like you’ve alluded, it makes you feel good because you have as good of odds coming in the first year as somebody been playing the game for 20. Yeah. But, but having said that, they’re the first ones you sit out if you have a too busy schedule this year and don’t want to draw tags because Yeah. Or or go like you said, for the hardest to draw, only let lightning strike and make it work out if you do draw.

00:24:27:12 –> 00:25:09:09
So that brings us to, well California technically. Yeah. Although we don’t do a lot of applications in California for ourselves. There’s some members that live in California that like to do it. And, and there’s not non-residents that are willing to spend those extra dollars and they feel like they have that expendable income to go ahead and, and go for the one in 5,000, whatever the odds might end up being. The way their out tag allocation system is working for non-residents, it’s a tough one for non-residents to, to justify, justify doing. And so we we’re honest with guys, you could save your money and not apply for California even though maybe it better for us each year. We actually want what’s best for the client. We’re not looking to get every nickel and dime out of ’em. We want to apply ’em in states that are actually worth doing.

00:25:09:09 –> 00:25:42:22
Yeah. And, and sometimes we’ll tell ’em not that everybody should apply in the states. We do. And and I tell that guys often, Hey, I don’t do it. Jason doesn’t do it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t, but if that gives you perspective on whether we should do California, we don’t think it’s, I can’t miss one if you’re not already at max points or whatever. Yeah. And so we’re realist, you know, to throw 200 bucks away. You know, if somebody in California, unless they absolutely need a desert sheep and they’re gonna do every single desert, you know, go ahead and do it. I’m not gonna talk a guy outta that. But to try to grow a great gear deer tag or an elk tag as a non-resident, there is harder to justify.

00:25:42:24 –> 00:25:48:09
Well, and like that, like you’re talking desert sheep in California, basically 10% are allocated to non-residents. Up two

00:25:48:14 –> 00:25:52:09
One up two up to one, sometimes two maybe y’all go to residents. Well

00:25:52:09 –> 00:26:03:05
That’s very, that’s where we’re talking about it being, you know, one elk, one elk in the entire state of California could go to a non-resident, could be a cow cow. And if that’s a cow elk that’s done, you’re done. We met our quota as non-residents.

00:26:03:12 –> 00:26:04:13
One antelope up to

00:26:04:20 –> 00:26:17:06
Extremely up to one antelope. One. That’s okay. So how tough is that? It’s a very interesting dynamic when you were talking places like California, however, we have a lot of California residents that have us do their applications. They’re,

00:26:17:06 –> 00:26:21:19
They’re a totally different ball game. They’re very, they’re the 90% are, you know, pool they’re in for all the tags.

00:26:21:19 –> 00:26:41:18
No problem. Just, it’s just our job to, to let you know of those opportunities and what’s worth it and what’s not. So, so that kind of does bring us to Colorado. Even though we’ve talked about Colorado already. I know Adam and I, we work really aggressive on the sheep, goat and moose. Yep. Of course deserts. The point system doesn’t work for deserts and you and you kind of gotta choose. You can’t do ’em both. And so Adam and I do the Rockies.

00:26:41:25 –> 00:27:21:05
We do Rockies. I’ve, you know, know, got a bunch of points, hope to draw there one day. I know, you know you do goats as well. I I’ve got lucky in drawing a goat in Montana. So I never started in Colorado. Those odds are generally for sheep, moose, and goat in Colorado. Some of the best in in the west. That’s right. They really are. They make you front the full permit fee 21, 2200 bucks at least that’s it has been all upfront. Yep. 2018 they’ve told us they’re gonna allow online. I we’re assuming they’re gonna make you pay the full permit fee on a card. We’ll see that will be easier. But we’ll have to see about that. But it’s kept the odds. Good. You have had to write a paper application, send it in. So we’ll, we’ll have an update on this, you know, later on when they slip by

00:27:21:05 –> 00:27:36:16
That. So Yeah, even with that, even with the applications, you could write a credit card check. Yeah. ’cause they accept personal checks and so sometimes guys can float their own fees on a 0% card using a credit card check’s. So there was a That’s right. Few little things to not have to pay or to actually have that money leave your account. That’s

00:27:36:16 –> 00:28:07:13
Right. And the biggest thing to keep in mind on moose, sheep and goat, they have a different point system that it is not a preference like the deer, elk, and antelope where all of the tags go to the people with the maximum points. You have to first accumulate three base bonus points and then every year after that they give you what’s called the weighted point, which to simplify it just gives you a mathematical advantage every year after that. So you can draw your fourth year in the draw from moose, sheep, or goat. And we’ve seen people do it their, their fourth year in the draw. That’s right. Is your first real year that you could draw tag. That’s right. Well

00:28:07:13 –> 00:28:14:23
You’re issued a random number and then it’s divided by how many weighted points you have. Yep. Plus one. That’s right. Get you another new number. That’s right. And so you can draw with on your third year. That’s

00:28:14:23 –> 00:28:54:10
Right. When it comes to the deer, elk and, and antelope, you know, the elk Colorado probably gives 75% of their elk tags over the counter. The remaining 25 roughly percent of the state they draw tags in. This is just figures. Yeah. You know, they, there’s a lot of demand for those because there’s not a lot of units to spread out. You know, the northeast corner, you know, unit two ten two oh one, those units like that 61, even just seeing dramatic increases in what it’s taken and point creep just keeps going and going 20 to 26 points. And if you don’t have that many points or within a point or two of that may not be worth ever chasing. So you just don’t simply have enough people to spread out on elk is a totally different

00:28:54:22 –> 00:29:12:24
Situation. Totally different situation. Well you know, we, going back to elk for a short minute, it’s, you know, it’s not good management practice and far as trophy quality to just issue tags over the counter. And when, like you said, 75% of the opportunity is issued over the counter that leaves you a dozen units or 20 units, you know, are are opportunities

00:29:12:24 –> 00:29:13:27
That you burn points for that

00:29:13:27 –> 00:29:33:21
You can burn points for. And then you got thousands of people gaining points and so it makes it hard. Yeah. Having said that, we’ve found a few units and we’ve founded a few units such as unit 40. Yeah, that’s right. And such as those units where we’ve done well. Yeah. And we’ve seen some good bulls and, and our and don’t take 20 points. And so, and and even using third season type tag force season tags, well not hunting elk in the,

00:29:34:01 –> 00:29:53:09
Well just kind of come to the realization that I’ve got X number of points, I’m never gonna draw this, what can I draw? Making it, you know, picking it and going hunting. But talking about those 75% of the units, those can be tags that you can get any year you want come out on your own. You can use Colorado as the backup plan. Yeah. Get an elk tag, go archery out, kind of grab out

00:29:53:19 –> 00:29:56:10
Tag supplement with an elk tag. Yeah. Go hunt and have two species,

00:29:56:16 –> 00:30:08:23
Get an outfitter and go hunt or come do it on your own. So there’s, depending on what end of the spec, if you’re on the trophy end of the spectrum, Colorado would not be a state we’d really recommend starting for elk. If you’re an opportunity hunter, absolutely go. It should be one you should be looking at

00:30:08:24 –> 00:30:13:06
Go every time we’re hunting deer, you know, no matter what unit it is, we’re seeing bull six

00:30:13:06 –> 00:30:14:12
Point both. Yeah. Six

00:30:14:12 –> 00:30:20:28
Point both. We don’t have tags in our pocket for that because we’re not looking to just pack out elk meat. No. When we’re trying to kill a big

00:30:20:28 –> 00:30:22:00
200 bucks deer in the river

00:30:22:03 –> 00:30:35:24
Or something. Yeah. So anyway. But those are, there’s quite an opportunity, you know, when looking at deer back in 1996, I drew opinion Canyon, back then the eastern plains was like the only place you could kill a big deer in Colorado wasn’t managed,

00:30:36:00 –> 00:30:37:22
It was like Western was over the counter.

00:30:37:24 –> 00:30:44:05
Yeah. And so, and then when they went to the drop system for every deer unit in the state, you saw some changes.

00:30:44:17 –> 00:30:53:06
Dramatic difference when they started managing hunters on a unit by unit, season by season. Draw for that tag or you don’t go deer hunting. That’s right. It got better quick. You don’t bite. And

00:30:53:06 –> 00:31:05:27
Those rifle hunts, now they’re offering rifle hunts. Basically third and fourth season are rutt hunts with a rifle. Only in the state of Colorado would get away with that and continue to manage or continue to maintain trophy quality simply because it’s a deer factory

00:31:05:27 –> 00:31:10:22
Factor for nearly 20 years. It’s a factor since they’ve done the draw. Yeah. They’ve got, there’s so many incredible genetics and habitat and a lot

00:31:10:22 –> 00:31:11:10
Of escapement

00:31:11:15 –> 00:31:31:15
Variety of terrain. You can, you’ve got for deer talked about earlier, if you have one to two points and you wanna go hunt this year, there’s a unit for you to draw in Colorado. It may not fit perfectly what you want if you’re a 1 95 only deer hunter. Yeah. Yeah. It’s probably not gonna fit that. But if you’re like, hey, I just wanna hunt one 70 bucks, you should go to Colorado every year to two or three.

00:31:31:19 –> 00:31:42:07
All my kids got leftover tags this year. Yeah. So if you draw your second choice, you get a leftover, still gain a point. You’re prepping for the future while still hunting Colorado. So there’s a lot of great opportunities. I know John, you,

00:31:42:10 –> 00:31:45:19
Oh personally I love to draw Colorado every three to five years.

00:31:45:22 –> 00:31:46:21
And you do it. I won’t

00:31:46:21 –> 00:31:48:21
Hold those, you know, those points. Build them

00:31:48:21 –> 00:31:51:10
Them up and you had 63, you even 144, like hundred

00:31:51:10 –> 00:31:53:21
68, 44, 35. Yeah. Yeah.

00:31:54:03 –> 00:32:04:04
And you’re killing whack and deer, you know, and so what a great, what a great state to hunt in. It’s absolutely a state every deer hunter should be either gaining points for or hunting. Yeah,

00:32:04:04 –> 00:32:40:12
That’s right. And a lot of ’em may get to the 15 to 20 point range if you’re stuck or built that many points and you’re like, okay, now I want to use them there. Those are probably some of the units you should be looking at because you’re gonna have lower a hunter numbers, maybe higher duck buck to dough ratios. But once you draw, we’re, we’re highly in favor of going to Colorado as often as your schedule can allow. Don’t a lot of those hunts tend to be weather dependent the late October November hunts to make ’em really good. You can build 15 to 20 points. Say I got a four season tag here and go there and it lays an egg like last year and it’s 75, 80 degrees, the whole hunt. And you, that wasn’t worth it.

00:32:40:13 –> 00:32:42:23
Well and you used to be able to turn your tags back in early the

00:32:42:23 –> 00:32:43:10
Day before the hunt.

00:32:43:12 –> 00:33:12:17
Yeah. And now it, it changes everything. And so 30 days, you know Yeah. Have to 30 days you can turn your tags back and who knows what the weather’s gonna be. And so a lot of it is just, you know, banking on the dates and now with the dates being later than average last year was best. You know, this year’s still good. We’re expecting and hoping for something good. If we get any kind of weather at all, big deer gonna hit the ground. I do. You didn’t remind me that when you were talking about that Adam, about the 20 points and knowing when you’re gonna draw, I don’t know if we covered it, but Colorado’s one of those states, the guys with the most points win. Yeah.

00:33:12:17 –> 00:33:35:23
They do have a hyper draw that applies to certain units that take X number of points. But But for non-resident purposes, ignore that. Yeah. Because our 20% quota is gonna be met in the maximum point draw that’s right in in those units. So any tags earmarked for hybrid draw are gonna go Yes. For for Deere, this is for deer now. Yes. They’re gonna go to residence.

00:33:35:24 –> 00:33:42:28
That’s right. Well they do the hybrid draw to the regular draw. And like you said, we’re in the same draw with the residents. We, although we have a separate allocation,

00:33:42:28 –> 00:33:44:06
20% or 35

00:33:44:06 –> 00:34:05:09
And we draw, we draw our allocation before the residents in nearly every case. Yeah. There’s a few units that obviously, you know, like some of those middle mountainous crazy country that actually residents have a few points and maybe do reach their allocation before we do. But generally speaking we reach our allocation before residents and once we reach our allocation, everything goes in resident. We cannot draw on their hybrid.

00:34:05:13 –> 00:34:12:18
That’s right. The only difference is that is the antelope is that they don’t have the 20% to non-resident or 35 to non-resident. It’s just whoever draws an tag gets

00:34:12:18 –> 00:34:15:27
Whoever draws draws. There is no non-resident quota for antelopes. And that’s why the hybrid

00:34:15:27 –> 00:34:26:25
Works for Yeah. We’ve had, we’ve had a couple license app clients the last couple years draw hybrid antelope tags. Yeah. But that’s the only instance we’ve heard of. The non-residents draw on it because there’s no non-resident. Resident quota. Yep. So

00:34:26:25 –> 00:34:37:05
Generally speaking, if they consider everybody’s first choice before they go to anybody’s second, so they’ll look at all the first choices. If there’s two applicants and one has four and one has five, the guy with five will draw.

00:34:37:06 –> 00:34:40:03
That’s right. So that, that’s boiled down for, for dear.

00:34:40:16 –> 00:34:42:17
So what, John, do you have anything to add about

00:34:42:25 –> 00:35:08:27
Colorado? Well one of the things I love about us managing people’s whole strategy is we can look at, at a guy and say, okay, he wants to kill a giant box sometime in his life. And so we’ve got a long-term strategy for him to build points like me in in Nevada. I’m not going to Nevada every three to five years. I’m building points in Nevada to hopefully draw really good tags sometime. But Colorado, no, that’s a different story. I’m gonna go as often as I can. Why?

00:35:09:09 –> 00:35:09:16

00:35:09:21 –> 00:35:19:23
Well because I don’t want to skip too many years of not having a good tag and not having fun. And Colorado’s just one of those states. You always have a chance. Yeah, you do. And you could kill a giant. Well that’s the nice thing.

00:35:19:23 –> 00:35:22:10
You can kill a giant on a 0 1 2 point. We’ve

00:35:22:19 –> 00:35:24:19
A choice. We’ve drawn it, you know, whether, so that’s

00:35:24:19 –> 00:35:30:29
What I wanna do. But Nevada, I wanted, you know, those tags just for me aren’t gonna come around every, every year. So

00:35:31:08 –> 00:36:06:16
I’ll build it up. Well a lot of is they take all five choices. They only squar, they square ’em. I say only meaning you don’t know when you’re gonna get drawn. They square everybody’s seven, you have seven points, you have 49 plus one this year’s application, now you got 58. Eight times eight what? 64 plus 1 65. So I mean you just cannot tell, you know, it seems awesome that they square ’em but they square everybody’s, I know a guy with 25 deer points. Okay. He cannot draw any Dr. Muzzles applied muzzle as his first choice. That’s right. Phil. You know, what do you, and what do you say? What do you say? It does work? It just sometimes it is realistically taking 15 points in Nevada to get good deer tags.

00:36:06:19 –> 00:36:59:05
We might as well finish off Nevada where we’re on it. When we’re talking about deer and elk. It’s a very, there are average deer units, not a lot of average elk. They’re generally very high quality elk. You got a seven year waiting period after you draw, draw an elk tag that would change that. And so once you draw, I, my philosophy in Nevada is make it really good because if it takes me 10 or 12 years, 15 to draw tag, then I wait seven, that’s 20 to 30 years in between elk tag. I just don’t want an elk tag. There’s other states like New Mexico with no points or Idaho or even Colorado or Wyoming. Yeah. I can go hunt elk in that interim. I’m saving that one for something good because of that. That strategy. That’s right. Deer doesn’t have a waiting period. That’s right. But I still tend to stick. And I know you do Jason, you’re, you’re the king over there. I stick to units. I want to hunt. I don’t want to go to the easy to dryers in other parts of the state. I wanna hunt, you know, eastern Nevada closer to Utah, closer to home units that I

00:36:59:05 –> 00:37:01:04
Know. Well you can turn your tag back. Of course you know that.

00:37:01:04 –> 00:37:01:25
Yeah, yeah, that’s right.

00:37:01:25 –> 00:37:02:27
You’ve, you’ve actually done it.

00:37:02:29 –> 00:37:13:04
I’ve done it. You know you can draw your tag, you can turn it back. You do lose your deer permit fee or elk permit fee. Elk’s. Little steeper. 1200 bucks. 1200 bucks. Deere’s 240. But you get your points.

00:37:13:05 –> 00:37:15:24
I look at everything in four wheelers. That’s like what, a fourth

00:37:15:24 –> 00:37:25:07
Of a fifth fifth. A four wheeler or, or that’s a 1991 Honda four track. So I dunno however you wanna look at it. It is a full four wheeler if it’s old enough. That’s right.

00:37:26:10 –> 00:37:30:17
So it does, it does hurt a little bit. But the nice thing is, is you can get all those points back

00:37:30:27 –> 00:37:48:17
And one is if you didn’t draw and when you’re packing 15 to 20 and all of a sudden you drew Nevada the same year you drew an early rifle in Arizona. Yeah. Or a Utah that are all upper echelon elk units. Yes. And they’re the same time you, you can’t make two of them work do ’em justice. Right. So take it,

00:37:48:18 –> 00:37:55:16
Take it ahead. So you, you could point guard it in Arizona, which we didn’t talk about. You could point guard it and turn that tag back. You could turn it back in Nevada and you could turn it back in Utah.

00:37:55:17 –> 00:37:55:29
Utah there.

00:37:56:02 –> 00:38:00:23
And you can turn it back in Colorado but you won’t get this year’s point. That’s right. You’re gonna stay stagnant as if you didn’t apply that year.

00:38:00:26 –> 00:38:12:28
So that brings up a general philosophy. We do get the questions sometimes from people who said, well you’re, we’re talking about applying for six or eight states. What if I draw ’em all? And the answer is you’re not. And and part of that you gotta trust us.

00:38:12:28 –> 00:38:17:13
And the other answer is if you do, yeah. You’ve got some options. You can turn some stuff back.

00:38:17:15 –> 00:38:36:07
About half the states roughly will allow you to turn ’em back one way, shape or form. Get your points back, your money back. Maybe both. Yeah. But especially some of those states where, where trophy quality is very high and you don’t want two at the same and the same time you’ve got options. Others you’re stuck with. You know, Wyoming, you’re stuck with it. It Yeah. You know Idaho,

00:38:36:22 –> 00:38:37:05
Speaking of Wyoming,

00:38:38:15 –> 00:38:39:16
Are we jumping? We’re jumping

00:38:39:16 –> 00:38:46:12
Ahead. Alright. Alright. Well I’m just so excited ’cause the draw results came out today and we had some good news but yeah, let’s keep going on Nevada. Alright,

00:38:47:13 –> 00:39:39:11
So you know Nevada has two, three species of sheep, but for non-residents they can apply for desert sheep and California bank horn. And they give over last year 30 non-resident desert sheep tags. That’s unbelievable. That’s more than all the other states combined. Yeah, it’s unbelievable. And they have extreme trophy units and just opportunity average one 40 to one 50 rams. Yep. And so it’s a must apply for desert sheep. It’s a state where they charge $142 for a license, then it’s 15 to $20 per species. So if you’re gonna do Nevada at all, much like Arizona, don’t just do, hey I just want a desert sheep or I just want a mul there. Yeah. For another minimal 20 to $40 you can add two to three more species. Build the points. They have great antelope in Nevada. They, like you said, square your points. It’s random after that. You get more names than the hat. Whoever gets it gets it. Great. Trophy state. I would probably label it more as a trophy state than an opportunity state for

00:39:39:11 –> 00:40:20:18
Sure. It’s, there’s no question, you know, Nevada has some of the most limited resources. It’s an arid state and, and it relies on water and it doesn’t have a lot of water. That’s right. And it’s got a lot of wild horses, you know, and so, but for, for the resource they have, it’s amazing the quality. They have quality. It’s unbelievable. Adam and I were looking through the trophy, you know Putin Crockett record book. They’ve got a trophy search query, which is awesome. Anybody that’s out there, it’s a great opportunity for you to log on. Costs $40 a year to be an associate member. But you can get on there and when you do, you get on there and you notice what was killed. One unit, ’cause you can tell by the county they’re killed in, killed two bucks that were 1 93, 1 94 net typicals. And, and it came from one specific unit on a late season.

00:40:20:21 –> 00:41:15:28
It’s pretty amazing. And there’s not that many tags percentage-wise amazing. What they’re producing. And the elk. The elk did go through a cycle. I drew a late elk tag clear back in like year 2000 or 2001. It was right when I did the Arizona as well. Not the same year, but back to back years. And you know, with those elk, they, they’re, it’s amazing the quality. It was unbelievable. Then they went through where they had a little bit of a lull adjusted some seasons the quality went down. Now the elk are back. It’s unbelievable what the bulls that they’re producing. And like you said Adam earlier in the podcast and or the YouTube video, whatever you’re looking at watching it was it, it’s amazing quality no matter if you’re talking the oh sixes, the oh sevens, whatever unit you’re talking about, it’s great quality. Where it’s like Arizona or even Arizona, the king of Elk states has units in the fives and sixes Yeah. That are producing 300, 3 10 type bulls.

00:41:15:29 –> 00:41:20:19
Yeah. And occasional three 50 to seven you have the wild card effect. Even in those Those units. Yeah.

00:41:20:19 –> 00:41:23:27
Even in those units. But Nevada, you’re killing three 30 in

00:41:23:27 –> 00:41:24:15
Every unit in

00:41:24:15 –> 00:41:25:05
Every unit. Three

00:41:25:05 –> 00:41:26:27
30 plus. There’s not an average unit anywhere

00:41:26:27 –> 00:41:34:04
Else. You shoot three 30, you hold out for three threes in every single unit. That’s right. You can’t even do that here in Utah. I mean the Oakers That’s right. You know, or whatever. I don’t know.

00:41:35:29 –> 00:42:17:21
Yeah. One thing to point out probably about before we leave Nevada, is if you’re a mule deer hunter and you know you’re gonna go with a guide or an outfitter, they do have a outfitter restricted guide draw for rifle mule deer. It only applies to rifle mule deer. Yep. But it’s an earlier draw. About a month earlier you apply with an outfitter amongst only another pool of applicants with outfitter, non-resident, applicants, non-resident applicants. And your odds are generally better if you know you’re gonna hire a guide when you draw a rifle, deer hunt, Nevada, we recommend applying that. We can help you pick those outfitters. We can help pick your units that fit your criteria if you want, if you’re happy to shoot one 70 bucks, you can draw almost every single year in Nevada. Absolutely. For, for those type of units.

00:42:17:23 –> 00:42:22:10
Yeah. We’ve got outfitters that are, that are hunting the, the one four area, 14 area 15, which is

00:42:22:10 –> 00:42:24:21
16 1, 1 51, 16, 17,

00:42:24:21 –> 00:42:25:16
All those areas. Yeah.

00:42:25:16 –> 00:42:31:00
Six early. I mean you can hunt ’em literally almost every year if you do the early hunts and just have good quality deer hunts.

00:42:31:01 –> 00:42:56:03
Keep in mind these are rifle seasons only and so there’s a separate allocated number of tags for a separate drawing and you can only apply in one one or the other. The main draw or the outfitter draw for deer. Deer, that’s right. And so if you apply in the outfit or draw, which occurs before the main draw, then that’s your draw. You’ll get a point and they’ll use your dear points. Even if the next year or the year prior you applied the main draw points. All points are good for, that’s right. Whatever application period you choose

00:42:56:03 –> 00:43:18:24
To apply one year you wanna sit out and do points only you sit a year out and do points only. Or if like, well I don’t, I don’t really want to guide hunt this year. I’m just gonna sit out and do the regular, draw, the best unit in the state. You can do that. Just something to point out. And we, that InCorp, we incorporate then a lot of our applicant’s strategy because if they’re, if they’re guys that go guided on all their hunts, they should be doing that much like New Mexico, which we’ll get to in a minute. But I dunno, where are we at to,

00:43:19:12 –> 00:43:28:22
I, I think it’s worth reiterating in Nevada, if you’re gonna apply for one species, dual ’em all. Yeah. Even if you hate, so you don’t antelope to front the fees, you know, you don’t, you don’t have to front the fees. It’s one of those Yeah. And it’s so cheap.

00:43:28:27 –> 00:43:29:17
Yeah. For, you should

00:43:29:17 –> 00:43:30:10
Build points for, for

00:43:30:12 –> 00:43:47:05
200, 250 bucks depending on what everything that you add. And some of the silver states, which are, you know, governor type opportunities, you know, you’re, you’re 250 bucks or less, 250 to 180 depending on the species you choose. And like you said, John, you’re gonna gain a point for every single species you apply for.

00:43:48:04 –> 00:43:55:25
The quality’s so good. You, even if you don’t love antelope, you spend 20 years and you build those points just because it’s cheap. You’re gonna have a great bucks

00:43:55:27 –> 00:44:38:01
A year, build an antelope point, and then when you wanna draw, you’ve got a pretty good antelope tag. So, I dunno if that brings us to Idaho, but maybe we’ll just talk about that. Yeah. Like we’ve said, there’s no point system in Idaho. They do require you to buy a non-refundable hunting license, 155, $60. The biggest probably thing to ke keep in mind there, if you want to apply for sheep, which they have Rocky Mountain or California Bighorn, you can draw one of each in your life or a shiru, moose or goat, you have to pick one of those species and, and you’re done for Idaho for the year. Yeah. So, and you do have to front the entire tag fees, whether you apply on paper or online for those big three we’ll call ’em, which is 2100 something dollars. So it’s, it’s an expensive out of pocket.

00:44:38:11 –> 00:45:27:29
They end up keeping 175 to $200 of that. And, but it’s a flat random draw. Whoever gets the tags gets it. Non-residents are limited up to up to 10% of the tags. Statewide. Yeah. Statewide for those species. So, you know, you on some of the species like, like sheep, you know, there’s 20, 25 units, they’re only gonna draw eight to nine non-resident tags. And every year is just a product of the random draw where they’re drawn. Whenever they come up, they can’t draw more than 10% in an individual hunt code. And whenever they draw eight or nine or 10 and you know, 10% of the statewide tag, all the rest of the tags go to residents. So it’s hard to, we portray the drawing odds as they are, everybody’s in the hat together, residents and non-residents. Until we meet our non-res resent quota. But straight draw, a lot of people like it for that, some people don’t.

00:45:27:29 –> 00:45:34:27
Well, I think you meant when you said 10% per hunt code, I think you meant on the deer, elk, antelope and whatnot, because like Unit 11, they don’t give 10 tags.

00:45:35:08 –> 00:45:42:19
Yeah, yeah. Well you can’t exceed, like let’s say you’ve got a unit 10%, like a unit 11, they’ve got one. A non-resident can draw that draw, draw that,

00:45:42:19 –> 00:45:44:10
And that exceeds 10%. That’s

00:45:44:10 –> 00:46:08:25
Right. But if a unit has no, no more than 10, like if the unit has 25 moose tags, there you go. They can only draw two to non-residents in that hunt code. That’s, so there’s a 10% on sheep. It doesn’t really, that’s map out great. But on goat mo or on sheep or on moose, you have 20, 30, 40 tags and some units. And so it’s a 10% statewide, 10% by hunt code sheep and goat, you know, they’re all less than 10. So no more than one in that, in

00:46:08:25 –> 00:46:16:16
That instance. And that’s right. And so, yeah, I just wanted to clarify that a little bit. We get talking fast course, Adam and I each have had a monster and we might have another.

00:46:16:29 –> 00:46:17:09
That’s right.

00:46:18:00 –> 00:46:18:27
So anyway,

00:46:19:08 –> 00:46:26:29
We need to see about Phil sponsored this podcast because we have enough of ’em, an incidentally around us that they’re getting a lot of free press.

00:46:27:12 –> 00:46:52:05
Anyway, so as we talk about, I want to talk about Idaho just a little bit more. I’ve drawn a moose tag in Idaho. Of course when I did it that particular year, I couldn’t have applied for elk deer in antelope. And then I’ve also drawn up or deer tags Yeah. In Idaho. And so one of the, it’s a, it’s a great opportunity where one year you can do sheep. Adam, I think you applied for sheep this year. Yeah, I did. I did the deer el can antelope this year, but next year I might do sheep. It just, it’s over.

00:46:52:05 –> 00:46:52:22
You’re filling just

00:46:52:23 –> 00:47:21:04
That year. It’s, and there’s no point system like Adam says. And you, you do have to donate a hunting license fee. And so a lot of times Adam and I hunt wolves up in Idaho. And that’s another cool thing. We’ve each killed wolves in Idaho. Adam killed an alpha male, just an unbelievable experience. And, and I’ve got lucky and killed a couple of wolves. Public land wolf, I mean, what a trophy. We hate ’em, but we love ’em. It’s an amazing feeling when you kill a wolf, you feel like you’re gonna go to jail. Yeah. It’s an accomplishment.

00:47:21:10 –> 00:47:24:04
That’s one of the hardest cross hairs. And you’re like, can I really pull this?

00:47:24:10 –> 00:47:25:06
Can I do? Yeah. Can I

00:47:25:06 –> 00:47:31:07
Do you’ve been taught your whole life dangerous species act. Yes. Behind bars. You’re get gonna get to know bubba real well.

00:47:31:25 –> 00:47:49:09
So if I’m in the wrong, I thought it was a coyote, if I’m in the right, I knew it was a wol. And so anyway, what a great opportunity. And, and so we do that. We, we kind of have that knowing, you know, we know we’re gonna buy a hunting license, but we’re okay with it because we’re gonna go up there and hunt wolves and a lot of guys hunt over the counter deer and elk tags.

00:47:49:09 –> 00:48:26:23
Yeah. That’s a lot like Colorado. You can use that as a last resort and buy an over the counter deer tag. They have white tails there in Idaho. A mule deer as well as elk. Just one thing to, to keep in mind, if you don’t do the sheep, goat and moose draw is about a month or month and a half before the deer, elk and antelope. If you don’t decide to put in for one of those, like we talked about, you can do all three deer, elk, and antelope and you don’t have to front the fees. They’re a little bit later in the year. A lot of people with a June 5th deadline on the deer, elk and antelope Yes. Will use it as a, Hey, I’ve drawn nothing else. There’s no points. I’m gonna throw some names in the hat for deer, elk and Idaho. That’s right. Yeah. You can tell, tell. I know you you do that. Yeah.

00:48:26:24 –> 00:49:08:07
Yeah, I do that quite a bit. And so anyway, just an awesome opportunity. They have some amazing quality. The elker, there’s a couple units that are just absolutely phenomenal world class. And then deer too that if Idaho was left alone and managed to truly properly what we would, the way we would manage trophy units might it would be better in Arizona, Colorado, Utah combined probably. Yeah. It’s unbelievable hidden gems. The genetics they have. Having said that, there are a few deer that make it to that eight, nine, 10-year-old class. 7, 8, 9, 10-year-old and, and are amazing. There’s some 230 40 inch deer killed every single year in Idaho. It’s unbelievable. And some of ’em are coming off general areas. Okay. So pretty awesome.

00:49:09:06 –> 00:49:48:22
Maybe just real quickly, let’s, let’s briefly gloss over to Kansas and Iowa. They’re, they’re white till Iowa’s a white till state. Kansas does have a mule deer option with the white till tag. Probably the biggest thing to keep in mind in those two states is they’re very predictable when you want to go. They’re, they’re not random Iowa’s preference points for archery. You need to accrue, accrue two to four points depending on the unit. So if you just want to know you want to hunt there someday, you’re gonna have to get some help either through a friend, a connection, an outfitter, a landowner. It’s 98% private land. That’s right. You know, I don’t know the exact number but it’s a lot. But it’s private Kansas as well. 95 plus we,

00:49:48:22 –> 00:49:49:04
And we both

00:49:49:04 –> 00:50:02:10
Hunt Kansas. We both have. Yep. And so keep, keep those in mind. You don’t really need to build points for Kansas. It’s just one of those that when you want to go, I mean one point will guarantee you any white toe tag in the state. Zero will get you probably, but

00:50:02:10 –> 00:50:15:28
You can’t gain points for the mule deer. That’s right. You know, opportunities. That’s, so anyway, that’s, we do cover those even though we, we were known to be a western big game hunting magazine slash application service. Most of the white tills across the east are over the counter.

00:50:16:02 –> 00:50:17:13
Those are the two, not those two

00:50:17:13 –> 00:50:23:29
Opportunities. That’s right. And on options that are actually, you know, an application type deal where we’ve had a lot of demand from our clients to

00:50:24:02 –> 00:50:29:13
Do that. That’s so, that’s right. So that we take care of those as well. So I don’t know New Mexico, you wanna jump to that one?

00:50:29:21 –> 00:50:40:12
I guess. Yeah, let’s dive in. We love that state. No points. So New Mexico’s one of those opportunities. There’s an amazing amount of opportunity in New Mexico. A lot

00:50:40:12 –> 00:50:40:25
Of species, geez,

00:50:40:29 –> 00:50:47:05
A lot of species go broke. Chasing ’em all. I know Adam killed a Barbary sheep over. I mean it’s,

00:50:47:05 –> 00:50:50:00
And they’ve got stuff you didn’t know was alive in this country living

00:50:50:00 –> 00:50:51:12
Down. Yeah, that’s right. So

00:50:51:25 –> 00:51:01:07
Orx and Barbery sheep and, and IEX and you know, those are some of the exotics they got. And then of course, deer, elk, antelope, co deer, you know, desert and Rockies. I mean it’s,

00:51:01:20 –> 00:51:48:15
There’s a lot of opportunity there. You know, they all three choices on the application count. There’s no point system. So it’s one of those things you can put in for one or two awesome areas and then something you’d accept on the end. And we do a lot of that. We do, you know, there’s giant bulls killed. I, I hunt, I’ve hunted 23 and, and killed a, you know, a three sixties bull and, and 23, I killed one of my biggest poles. 3 86 in unit 38. Something that, you know, was the first year it was available to non-residents. But it was one of those that hadn’t been open for 20 plus years as near as I could tell and figured there had to be at least one giant. Yeah. And so New Mexico’s just one of those, there’s the standard good ones that’ll always be good. Probably 16 D 16 A fifteen’s a popular 1, 17, 13. But then there’s a lot of those that are not so popular that are amazing.

00:51:48:20 –> 00:52:16:00
That’s right. You know, and so the biggest thing to keep in mind, there’s no point system. You’re not falling behind if you decide not to put in. They do require you to front the tag fees when you apply. They allow you to do it on a credit card for sheep that’s over $3,000. So yeah. Be prepared for that. We, whenever we go through a New Mexico planning strategy with somebody, we, we always identify that because you can run up $10,000 on your credit card,

00:52:16:03 –> 00:52:20:10
Your ibex, orx sheep, and, and then if you have a son or a daughter doing it Yeah.

00:52:20:10 –> 00:52:22:01
Pretty city. 15 or 20,000. Yeah.

00:52:22:01 –> 00:52:23:11
You’re thankful for 0% cards.

00:52:23:13 –> 00:52:43:16
Yeah. And so we highly recommend that on that point, for a state like New Mexico, you can pay other application services to front fees. Your fees, you’ll pay, you’ll pay out the nose for those because they’re putting it on there. But this day and age, we all throw away dozens of offers in our, in our, in our mailbox every month from credit

00:52:43:16 –> 00:52:45:15
Card for 0%. And you’re only fronting it for what,

00:52:45:28 –> 00:52:53:28
30 to 60 days depending on when you apply the application period. You wait towards the end, you know, you apply, it’s on there 30 days sometimes you don’t even get a full cycle.

00:52:54:01 –> 00:52:55:24
Even if you paid a little interest, not the

00:52:55:24 –> 00:53:41:29
Other world. Yeah. Not the end of the world. Your saving would be a lot cheaper. You know, most people, the way we view that are looking for somebody to do their application service that hunt a lot, that, that spend a lot on their applications. Probably have a credit card that can front a few of those states like that they’ll save a grundle of money by using their own card refund. Goes right back to your card or a check to you application service. Like Gus doesn’t handle it. There’s no money that has to swap back and forth. So, but back to New Mexico, you do have to front the fees. It’s a great state, not super deep on their mule deer. They got a few key units up in the northern part of the state. Very hard to draw a trophy mule deer down there. Tough. It’s really more known as a, as a one of the top three or four elk states, elk state, ton of variety. Two 80 to three 10 bowls. Three 30 to three 50 and three 50 plus type unit and something for everybody.

00:53:42:04 –> 00:53:58:00
And they have the outfitter draw versus the regular draw. Yes. Good point. So if you go with the outfitters, a lot of times there’s opportunities to draw tags, a lot better drawing ons. And so we use that, you know, as well. And we apply guys with outfitters and to help them out. Sheep. Sheep as well. It is tough to draw sheep tags.

00:53:58:00 –> 00:53:58:27
That’s right. Don’t

00:53:58:27 –> 00:54:01:12
Matter what the cost is, even though it’s a $3,000 upfront fee.

00:54:01:12 –> 00:54:38:06
That’s right. You know, if you know you’re gonna hire much like Nevada for, for Deere, New Mexico has a guide pool for 10% of the tags that go to residents or non-residents that apply with a, with an outfitter. Only 6% go to non-residents that are just on their own. On their own. And then the other 84 go to residents. And so there is a, a higher percentage of tags plus fewer applicants in the outfitter pool. You’ll have better drawing odds. But that, and that does apply for every species. Yeah. So something to keep in mind, sheep for antelope. Sheep. Yeah. You know, you’ll go, you’ll have one sheep tag in the unguided pool and two in the guided. Yes. Your odds are roughly twice as good. Twice as

00:54:38:06 –> 00:54:40:00
Good from, from what our calculations

00:54:40:00 –> 00:54:40:23
Were last year. It was

00:54:40:23 –> 00:54:47:07
Anyway, twice as good. And, and to keep in mind on the guided pool residents and non-residents can draw those tags. That, that, so

00:54:47:07 –> 00:54:52:17
Even residents, there’s, we, we apply some residents with outfitters in their state ’cause they know they’re gonna hire somebody. Yeah. And they just want to, and

00:54:52:17 –> 00:54:58:09
The might even be a little bit better, you know, even though there’s only 10% of the tags still might be a little bit better

00:54:58:09 –> 00:55:02:00
Than staying in the resident pool. Just depends. That’s right on, on that, on those. So state, so

00:55:02:00 –> 00:55:18:19
Great opportunity. The co deer average at best. You know, somewhat spotty. But at the same time they do kill some giants. Just like anywhere. There’s just a lot of cover. There’s low population base except for like an Albuquerque. There’s just a low population base of people. And so you got a lot of these little tiny towns

00:55:18:24 –> 00:55:19:13
Around the,

00:55:19:13 –> 00:56:04:25
And they, and they just, I mean, same thing. There’s bulls that aren’t named. We don’t have that in Utah. Yeah. We name our bulls everywhere. We name ’em all. And we might name ’em when they’re born, you know, and that’s the same thing with Nevada. We’re and and Arizona, they have names and, and they’re, there’s specific plans on how to kill those bulls and who’s gonna kill ’em. And, and the outfitters are competing against that. New Mexico’s wild and crazy. It’s one of those places that, that they’ve got outfitters. But it’s, it’s interesting because you just never know there’s bulls coming outta the woodwork that people haven’t named. Didn’t know about it. But it’s big country down there. It’s thick. Even the burns are still thick with standing dead and, and a lot of great feeding. So we, we’d love that state. It’s probably good we don’t live there. ’cause we’d be addicted to everything. We’d probably be knocking down a few

00:56:04:27 –> 00:56:11:10
Barbara sheep every single year and IEX soft range every year and whatever. Yeah. There’s crazy ics. I meant crazy

00:56:11:10 –> 00:56:22:29
Opportunities. Just crazy amounts of opportunities. And so something for everybody in New Mexico. So anyway, let’s again, one of those states that it’s good to supplement with one other states where you just don’t draw

00:56:23:00 –> 00:56:24:17
Forever. Well there’s no predictability

00:56:24:17 –> 00:56:31:21
Then keep mind, mind to buy your way in. You can buy elk tags in that state for six, seven grand. You know, you know, on the trophy

00:56:31:21 –> 00:56:32:05
Here, it’s

00:56:32:05 –> 00:56:44:12
The very, very best tags are going for 12. But you know, for good solid tags that are great opportunities, especially for archers, you’re talking six, seven grand, you know, eight on a high end and yet you can three 50

00:56:44:12 –> 00:56:45:07
Plus bulls. Yeah.

00:56:45:08 –> 00:56:50:03
Work. You can’t do that in Nevada. No. Nevada tags are 17 to whatever thousand. That’s

00:56:50:03 –> 00:56:57:03
Right. Utah tags opportunity tags in New Mexico. You can get ’em for 12 to $1,500 for opportunity. That’s right. You

00:56:57:03 –> 00:57:02:23
Know. Yeah. We bought some That’s right. 1500 bucks. That’s right. And you’re still hunting a 300 class bull. That’s hard

00:57:02:23 –> 00:57:10:24
To be. Yeah. It’s can’t be, especially if you’re a self-guided guy and you don’t need a guide outfit or all that. You can go that route. Montana, I guess let’s jump to that real quick.

00:57:13:16 –> 00:57:15:19
Ah, it’s,

00:57:16:05 –> 00:57:17:03
A lot of people ask this.

00:57:17:03 –> 00:57:21:09
I I wanna draw sheep tag in. That’s right. How how about that? I really, and Adam, you’ve hunted.

00:57:21:16 –> 00:57:36:03
I have during a goat tag in 2003, had a great hunt up there. I do the sheep and the moose as well. The big three, so to speak. They’re, they’re Rocky Mountain, big Horn are legendary. We all know that. Unbelievable. That’s what we all dream of. I I set my bar a little bit higher in that state for that reason’s

00:57:36:03 –> 00:57:38:29
You killed the California Big horn, which is a subspecies, the rocky. Yeah.

00:57:38:29 –> 00:57:47:12
I in Oregon, I don’t need one. I want one. But I look at Montana, it’s like, let me, lemme check. I have a chance to kill 180 5, 1 90 Ram. Yes. I don’t need just a ram in Montana,

00:57:47:19 –> 00:57:48:10
Colorado. You’re gonna kill

00:57:48:11 –> 00:57:50:01
A hundred seventy seven, one sixty or 70. Yeah,

00:57:50:01 –> 00:57:54:18
Exactly. And that’s what you’re looking at. So for Montana, that’s the one place that you can just

00:57:54:26 –> 00:58:25:07
Dream big. You know, great goats, great sheep. Sheep hunts are generally not very difficult. Physically. Their moose have seen better days. Like several states out west right now. They don’t make you front the, the permit fees for any of those three. It’s a flat application fee. You know, 80 or 90 bucks per species. Yeah. By the time that all is said and done and you apply where we get the most questions about Montana, no question is the deer elk. Yep. Their draw system is a little bit interesting. Complicated. It’s interesting. That’s right. And it’s not

00:58:25:14 –> 00:58:26:17
Clean. And they’ve got great opportunities

00:58:26:20 –> 00:58:49:07
They do to, to try to gloss over as quickly as we can. Non-residents have to first when you apply, you apply, you obtain a general season deer or elk or deer, elk combination license. You apply for that. Apply for that. You have to obtain that. And in some of those cases, like the, the elk this year that they’re guaranteed. So you’re gonna get it, but you can’t just cherry

00:58:49:20 –> 00:58:50:13
Yeah, exactly. You

00:58:50:13 –> 00:59:04:04
Can’t just cherry pick and say put me in for the best trophy deer, elk units in Montana for the minimal application fees. You can’t do it. They get you on the hook for the general license, which the deer elk combo is over a thousand bucks. Yes. All right. You’ve got that Then you’re, you picked your quarter

00:59:04:04 –> 00:59:04:24
Units apply for the breaks or

00:59:04:24 –> 00:59:12:11
Somewhere for archery breaks or 2 72, 61 deer, whatever. Whatever. You don’t draw. Now you’re either stuck with a general tag you don’t want or you get

00:59:12:11 –> 00:59:13:10
An 80% refund. That’s

00:59:13:10 –> 00:59:13:22
Right. That’s the system.

00:59:13:22 –> 00:59:15:01
But 80%, 200

00:59:15:03 –> 00:59:15:13

00:59:15:13 –> 00:59:16:10
Still expensive. That’s right.

00:59:16:13 –> 00:59:33:21
So, so that’s, it’s easier to just do that in a minute like that. But there’s a lot of little intricacies about that because you can go to do hunt some of the units in the breaks. Yeah. Every three to four years. You just gotta be willing to eat that 200 something dollars every year when you don’t draw. If you wanna build the points.

00:59:33:29 –> 00:59:37:12
I ate it this year. Yeah. So I think it’s, I think it’s, and I’m wouldn’t have that

00:59:37:15 –> 00:59:38:11
For a big bull. Yeah. So,

00:59:38:12 –> 01:00:09:23
But I think it’s a better opportunity for guys that are actually want to use that general tag and then go up there and hunt. And you can still kill a giant out there in the general. It just takes, just like Idaho, you can, you can hunt over the counter and Colorado, you can hunt over the counter. I would say there’s better opportunity in Montana. You can take a little work, there’s some public land you willing to get aggressive, go do it. Or private land. You wanna pay some trespass or whatnot or an outfitter. Go do it. You know, there’s opportunities up there. Just gonna take some work to to and research. And once you get going you’ll probably end up there every year.

01:00:09:24 –> 01:00:12:07
That’s right. So that probably the,

01:00:12:07 –> 01:00:14:28
The deer they’re hunting over the counter. A lot of ’em are general. Most of the

01:00:14:28 –> 01:00:16:27
General the probably 90% of the state wouldn’t

01:00:16:29 –> 01:00:32:10
It be? Yeah. In the rutt with a rifle. Yeah. Like so that’s not a good management tactic. Like you said that big for giant deer exception Colorado because they’re still on a draw system and they’re really managing the number of tags that are issued. And it’s a deer factory in Colorado. You can’t hunt deer in the rutt over the counter with a rifle does not

01:00:32:21 –> 01:00:35:00
Repeatedly that on on unlimited tags.

01:00:35:01 –> 01:00:46:24
And so then you end up with a two 70 tag or something like that that’s actually managed and limited and then you end up with some good bucks. That’s right. So it does, it has great genetics and people will call us after watching this and show us the 210 inch or they can

01:00:47:02 –> 01:00:49:29
And they’re 440 bulls and they do exist Four.

01:00:50:15 –> 01:00:51:09
It’s unbelievable.

01:00:51:23 –> 01:01:05:04
It’s just for residents it’s a lot easier to jump through non-res. It’s a little harder to swallow their application system for eating that general tag if you don’t wanna use it. So jumping down to Utah was that brings to Utah, maybe we know anything about Utah.

01:01:05:06 –> 01:01:18:06
Oh geez, I hate Utah. Utah’s one of those. I mean of course I don’t even know where to start. There’s so, so much opportunity in Utah, but it’s also limited as well. It’s very tough. It’s tough to draw

01:01:18:19 –> 01:01:30:12
Tag. It’s different from a resident and non-resident perspective too. We’re residents here. So Jason’s a little bit of his frustration is we have to pick Yeah, one, one once in lifetime species and one of the other and one of the limited entry deer, elk antelope. So except for sheep,

01:01:30:12 –> 01:01:31:28
Goat, moose or bison. Choose

01:01:31:28 –> 01:01:56:05
One. So Jason, let’s, let’s just, let’s just have it, let’s be frank. How many once a life you’ve drawn two once in a lifetime, which is pretty dang good. Yes. You do a buffalo when you’re 15 or 16 years old. Yes. 15. Yep. And then through the maximum point process after they started that desert about 93 you drew a desert sheep. Yeah. Of the others. How many of you drawn deer, elk and antelope in your life? You’ve drawn? I know one elk, I can’t remember if deer. Oh you do an elk selfless desert. You drew a an out in deer.

01:01:56:13 –> 01:02:04:09
I drew out in, but is that it Back then it was a posted hunting unit. It’s now A-C-W-M-U program and that’s available to residents only. And so yeah. And that was in,

01:02:05:06 –> 01:02:07:13
In almost 30 years. Is that about all you’ve drawn? Yeah,

01:02:07:17 –> 01:02:23:28
That I did draw a pongan muzzle back when they had the muzzle in the rutt. Okay. I drew that. But I was so young there was no way in heck I was even able to maximize that tag. Yeah. There was giants walking around me. I probably never saw ’em. You know, I was a young little kid.

01:02:23:28 –> 01:02:40:10
Yeah. Okay. And so that’s it. So I have yet to draw on my once in a lifetime. I’ve drawn an elk tag on Mount Dutton and I drew an antelope tag back when you’re, when I was like 15 We could put in for everything back then, if you remember. Yeah. I drew one of those back then. That’s it. I’ve yet to draw either. Okay.

01:02:40:18 –> 01:02:43:12
So now we’ve got the general, which we used to get over the counter.

01:02:43:14 –> 01:02:44:28
We do get hunt those every year. Now

01:02:44:28 –> 01:02:48:21
They’re on a limited draw basis. Thankfully the quality’s coming back fairly

01:02:48:21 –> 01:02:49:23
Decent. I would say that’s a bright spot coming

01:02:49:23 –> 01:02:52:21
Up. It’s a bright spot. And so we’ve got deer tags. Yeah. Generally

01:02:52:24 –> 01:03:09:16
And from a non reson perspective, switching gears just a little bit, they allowed when they, they started making people pay a non-refundable hunting license of 30, 35 for residents of 65 or non-residents. I think they were afraid non-residents weren’t going to, they were gonna leave Utah. Yeah. So they let them do every species

01:03:09:26 –> 01:03:14:07
And well in that way they could justify spending paying this non-refundable hunting license.

01:03:14:07 –> 01:03:20:28
That’s right. And and all it really did was diluted all those other pools. Really, it just threw everybody, almost does ’em all makes you

01:03:20:28 –> 01:03:22:22
Feel warm and fuzzy. They got points for every species.

01:03:22:24 –> 01:03:46:29
Yeah. It really didn’t help anything. And and, and it hurted hurt the people that were probably taught heavy in a few of the species. But anyway, that, that’s how Utah works. $65 for non-residents then $10 per species, no permit fees up front. Yeah. Back on the general deer that you’re talking about. That’s, that’s the only real thing. Unless you’ve accumulated a lot of points, Utah gives for the limited entry in once lifetime, half the tags go to the people with the most points. Most

01:03:46:29 –> 01:03:47:22
Points half on a random draw,

01:03:47:22 –> 01:03:49:03
Half go random. And those

01:03:49:03 –> 01:03:52:15
Are the more points you have, the more names you have for those random draw tags. So,

01:03:52:25 –> 01:04:09:27
But for the most part, Utah’s very conservative mu a little bit like Nevada unlimited entry. Like when you got something, you really got something but it, they don’t come around very often. No. So you guys started off with that but having with the general deer tags, there’s something you might want to look at incorporating. ’cause they’re a lot, they not to be overlooked anymore. Yeah.

01:04:09:27 –> 01:04:28:04
So you apply for two deer tags, you can apply for the general and you can apply for the limited entry and get points separately for each one. Separate categories both. So, so yeah, we do recommend guys doing that. Anyway, what was I gonna say? I can’t even remember. Or something. I need another monster. So anyway,

01:04:28:06 –> 01:04:31:29
Great state, a lot of public land, high trophy quality. We hunt tags

01:04:31:29 –> 01:04:52:09
Don’t come out Wess in the rut. We hunt archery, muzzle rifle. A lot of our, you know, and of course we have some late seasons as well. But while we, you know, if we rifle hunt ’em in the rutt, we have to give less tags to maintain quality. So it’s tougher. We, we could give more tags. We hunt ’em in October, November and let let ’em alone in the rutt. But we like that here in Utah. We like killing stuff when they’re bugling.

01:04:52:09 –> 01:05:27:25
Well and you know, we do have a bunch of, once in a lifetime species, they’re very hard to draw. But we’ve got desert sheep, Rocky Mountain Bighorn, free ranging bison, which are doing incredible, they’re amazing, amazing Henry Mountains. And now with the book Cliffs and other units, those opportunities have really increased mountain goats as well have increased. You know, shiru moose again, like some other states are kind of lower numbers right now, but you got five of those once in a lifetime species. You got, you know, awesome hunts. Anything you draw on a limit entry into Utah with a few exceptions. You mentioned your favorite unit earlier, the Ochre Stansbury. That’s one of those probably with that exception, you’re probably gonna have an awesome hunt.

01:05:29:04 –> 01:05:31:13
Probably worth mentioning the dedicated a hunter program for reasons.

01:05:31:15 –> 01:05:41:12
Well the Dedicat dedicated hunter does, does pertain to the general deer tags. And so you can, as non-residents or residents can participate in that program, you do have to draw to be able to be

01:05:41:17 –> 01:05:43:01
Accepted. Yeah. It took a point this year. Yeah.

01:05:43:10 –> 01:05:46:28
To get just dedicated. Right. And then once you’re a dedicated hunter, you can kill two deer in

01:05:46:28 –> 01:05:49:18
Three years, locked in for three years for that unit. Gotta do some service. S all

01:05:49:24 –> 01:05:52:09
If you’ve got time to hunt, it’s, it’s a great way

01:05:52:09 –> 01:06:12:23
To get. That’s amazing. It’s like buying a landowner tag in Nevada. You can hunt all seasons, you can hunt the archery muzzle and rifle until you kill a deer and then you can only kill two deer in three years. So basically they’re saying, well you’re a dedicated hunter by doing that. And then you do some service hours or buy ’em or buy ’em. The state can be bought, which is nice. Yeah. So anyway, especially

01:06:12:23 –> 01:06:13:11
If you’re non-resident,

01:06:13:26 –> 01:06:54:05
Even resident, sometimes we get busy, you know, at 20 bucks an hour. I don’t know what they’re costing at the moment. But anyway, you can buy those dedicated a hundred hours that you owe and then anyway be able to hunt and hunt extended timeframes. And also, you know, you’re getting a deer tag every year. You don’t have to draw the general each year, you know, you’re getting the next three years you’re getting a deer tag every year. And it with some time and energy elbow grease so to speak. Even some here, some of these general areas here in southern Utah, we know people that would not trade you a Henry’s tag for one of their general deer tags because they’re hunting specific giants. We have great genetics and if you have a escapement and deer that can make it to six to nine years old, you’re gonna have some giants. And we have that. Yeah,

01:06:54:10 –> 01:06:56:03
I do believe you’ve killed one or two good bucks.

01:06:56:17 –> 01:07:02:11
Kill a couple of good ones. Kill a couple of good ones. But having said that, I’ll go through 15 years of getting general tear tags

01:07:02:20 –> 01:07:05:13
And then kill one year, go back to back and then

01:07:05:13 –> 01:07:06:29
Kill back to back. You know, pair of bucks

01:07:06:29 –> 01:07:08:12
Running again, six, eight years again.

01:07:08:20 –> 01:07:11:09
I’m in a drought. Yeah. So anyway. But it’s maybe

01:07:11:10 –> 01:07:52:28
One thing about Utah as well is if, if we’re painting a blink picture regarding the draws and it somewhat is for trophy quality, it’s a great state for guarantee tags both through the CWU and landowner tag, a conservation permit program. They do cost some money, but you can bypass the draw by unit wide conservation tag or landowner tag or A-C-W-U-A Cooperative Wildlife Management Unit tag. Yeah. And hunt on private property. Much like Colorado’s ranching for wildlife property with an outfitter 60 day seasons. Again you get on Elk in the rut during the rud in some units till November 10th. So if you got, we book a lot of hunts for Utah for people that that wanna bypass the draw book, a deer hunt book, an elk hunt, that’s something we can help you with there.

01:07:52:28 –> 01:08:22:23
Yeah. And with the CWMU program, I mean they do offer a few resident tags to be drawn in through the regular draw process. And so anyway, that’s kind of a trade off you. Yeah, we’re gonna give you extended seasons and guaranteed tax and trade that the public can come in and hunt for. No, no fee, no extra charge. So kind of an awesome opportunity. What we do like about Utah, we love Utah for big stuff, the variety. And we also love it because people with zero points draw They can draw. Yeah. You can draw with no points. And we, we see that every year.

01:08:22:24 –> 01:08:45:13
Every single year. That’s right. So that maybe brings us to Washington and Oregon. Oh, so that’s, we’ll talk about Oregon first. So it’s one of those states that, that used to cost about $75 to buy their non-refundable hunting license back when Jason and I, Jason drew a sheep tag up there. Yeah. 2000 draw, random draw no points. 2004 I drew another one time 2008,

01:08:45:13 –> 01:08:46:12
First time West John Day was opened.

01:08:46:12 –> 01:09:19:19
Yeah. Drew to non residence. Drew, I drew an East Bad Butte same year it was open. I don’t I was just coincidence, you know, $8 application fee. License fee. They’ve jumped that license fee’s doubled now. Yes. So it’s, it’s not as, it’s not an $85 sheep applic application. It’s you know, 160 or so. You know, they’ve added non-resident goats. They don’t have points for those species. So you know, your odds are one in two to 600 for some of these sheep hunts. That’s right. Which is on par for a lot of other states. It’s hard to down talk down too bad to Oregon. ’cause they’ve been good. They’ve

01:09:19:19 –> 01:09:20:06
Been good us to

01:09:20:06 –> 01:09:20:21
Me a sheep tag

01:09:21:00 –> 01:09:32:01
Too. But are you applying in Oregon right now? No. Okay. Am I? No, I’m unbelievable. And so it’s one of those opportunities, I mean they do have blacktails and they have some good opportunities. Columbia white tail, some of these weird, weird species, but a different species.

01:09:32:10 –> 01:09:33:00
Columbia. Yeah, exactly.

01:09:33:06 –> 01:09:35:28
Well anything that’s not mule deer is weird to you. Well,

01:09:36:07 –> 01:09:36:13

01:09:36:13 –> 01:09:38:15
Know Yep. Sheep

01:09:38:24 –> 01:10:10:19
Roosevelts, you know, they do have a big variety and they do. They do. And the way they work their quota up there, 10% tags, they usually just designate which unit she can apply for as a non-resident. You know, you got five or six sheep tags a year, roughly one or two mountain goat tags, deer, elk and antelope. They have a quota system that is not very favorable to non-residents. Yeah. It, you know, 95 5 and of those five, half of those could go to outfits, can go to outfitters. So you’re in essence on those deer and outgoing for about two and half percent of the draw permits pretty tough. Some units will have one tag and they’ll

01:10:10:19 –> 01:10:10:24

01:10:10:24 –> 01:10:11:16
Every other year

01:10:11:19 –> 01:10:12:09
Because of

01:10:12:09 –> 01:10:20:16
That. Yeah. You’ll have one tag in the draw for a non-resident that year usually will go to a max point holder and the next year it goes to an outfitter. Antelope is even less than that. It’s like three now.

01:10:20:16 –> 01:10:44:13
There’s gonna be some people that come after us on this org and podcast. And the, the part part of that is they do have a lot of elk and a lot of a, a lot of game and, but they’re just not managed for quality. So it’s hard for us to justify driving to Oregon. Yeah. To go hunt, you know, murders creek for elk or something. You know, we just aren’t gonna do it. But they do. It’s a game rich state. And for guys that just want to kill stuff like go to Oregon, it’s great. It

01:10:44:13 –> 01:10:45:17
Or if you’re a resident, it’s

01:10:45:17 –> 01:11:12:10
A different story. Yeah. It’s a different story. And they’re gonna, and they do have great genetics and there are some big deer and we’ve hunted, we’ve hunted the juniper muzzle or deer tag and mal here. And I spent a lot of time up in some of that country in trout c creeks and and whatnot over the years. And, and some of that was through these outfitter tags we’re talking about the two and half percent. Some of it was through that. And so, you know, a guy has a juniper muzzle tag like go hunt if you want to hunt, go hunt it. Don’t wait 10 or 15 years, go buy a tag. And they’re not that expensive. No,

01:11:12:10 –> 01:11:22:16
That’s right. They really aren’t. It’s, it’s, it’s, they’ve got some incredible elk units, about three or four of ’em for trophy quality. You’re gonna take one tag every other year. For most of them we’ve been in one aha

01:11:22:18 –> 01:11:24:03
Archery’s. Right. It’s, it is. And there’s some

01:11:24:20 –> 01:11:55:06
Good elk. You know, if you, if you’ve got a ton of points accumulated, okay, you might look at those. But generally most people look at it this day and age. If you’re just starting, oh, I want my name in a hat for another sheep tag. And if you’re doing that for sheep, it’s hard not to say Yeah, for your eight bucks, get a deer in an L point. It’s and we did that. Yeah. We, we did that until we drew our sheep. And then we’re like okay. And then they raised the cross and like, well you can get a guaranteed outfitter or general season Roosevelt or even black tail tags. You don’t have to draw some of those oddball species. You can go around the draw and go shoot one sometimes.

01:11:55:06 –> 01:12:22:17
Well you can hunt Applegate Blacktails with a rifle prior to that late muzzle. On a general. On a general. And I did it. Yeah. And so yeah, I can sit around and wait and, and build points and work towards just a season change. I’m just hunting a different season. It does make a difference. I’m not saying I’m not minimizing it. It’s an amazing difference. Hunting deer, you know, black tails in the rutt in in October versus the rutt it there, there’s no question there’s a difference. But with a little bit of OAL grease, you can hunt the same unit, same bucks over the counter every year.

01:12:22:22 –> 01:12:35:09
So maybe a little bit hard to justify for a non-resident. It, it’s totally up to you. You can go either way if you’re really adamant and plan for as many sheep states as you can probably do it if you’re a deer out trophy person, I wouldn’t even consider.

01:12:35:13 –> 01:12:50:04
And they do have points, obviously we’ve been talking about it. They got points for the other species other than sheep and goat. So anyway you can, you know, you can, you know, it’s a 75 25 split. Yeah. 75% of tags go to people at the most points. 25% on a random draw. It’s just tough to split one tag.

01:12:50:04 –> 01:13:14:06
Yeah. When you got one it’s gonna go to the max. So little bit tough. I guess it brings us to Washington. We, we primarily just address the, the big three, the sheep, the moose and the goat it up there, it’s $110 application fee per species. They have a point system. It’s well established 15, 16 years now. Wow. They square your points. They square ’em. It’s random. There’s no resident non-resident quota. Whoever draws the tag gets ’em, gets ’em.

01:13:14:20 –> 01:13:16:24
Having said that, the odds are still rough. They’re

01:13:16:24 –> 01:13:37:11
Really rough. There’s a lot of residents in Washington of hunters. So they’re in the draw. And then the non-residents all, all draw together. Very, very tough odds. It used to be about 50, $55 per species. It’s been doubled to 110. Little bit harder to, it’s, it’s harder to justify. Yeah. Especially 16 years into a squared point system. It’s, you’re a lot of, lot of points.

01:13:38:04 –> 01:13:39:23
So do you apply in the Washington? I

01:13:39:23 –> 01:13:40:03
Don’t personally.

01:13:40:09 –> 01:14:35:07
No, I Me neither. So anyway, it is one of those opportunities we do it for guys and there’s some guys we call it maybe a money no object guy. He absolutely wants every opportunity to draw a sheep tag no matter if it’s one in 5,000 or one in five. That’s right. And so we apply those guys and and that’s what our service does. We just, it’s our job to help you understand what you’re up against and what your not what your non-refundable dollars are gaining you no matter what state we’re talking about. And so we just wanna be honest, that’s all. We’re not not bashing Washington. No. There’s some incredible opportunities in Washington. There’s some big sheep, big goats, big moose that have been killed. There’s big deer. I’ve got guys that hit me up about deer all the time every week I’m having a Washington guy. You know, I had a guy draw an awesome tag the other night and and hit me up. And so not saying I know anything about it, but I’m into big deer and I know they have a few and I’m, and so we’re not trying to run it down that way just from a non-resident perspective. Those are our feelings on

01:14:35:07 –> 01:15:05:01
It. That’s adding to that. The deer and the elk is a different setup. You, it’s not just a 50 or a hundred dollars application fee for them. Non-residents have to first acquire what will just label as the general deer elk tag. And then you, you buy that and there’s no 80% refund like there is in, in Montana cheap and no sure not cheap. 4, 5, 600 bucks. That’s right. Depending on the species. And then you can add the quality hunt. Very, very tough to draw those. So there’s a very high probability you’re just gonna spend a lot of money to get a deer or an point. We’re

01:15:05:01 –> 01:15:07:28
Talking the most amount of non-refundable dollars of any state.

01:15:07:28 –> 01:15:48:12
That’s right for deer and elk. So that’s why we don’t cover it. Residence is a totally different story. It’s cheap. You’re there, it’s cheap. Non-residents is very, very hard to justify unless you live in a bordering state like in Oregon or Idaho and you go to hunt there every year. Yeah, totally different state. So maybe one state we didn’t talk about real briefly is Alaska. We do cover the doll sheep drawing up there. Yeah. A lot of Alaska. The majority of Alaska you can, you can book hunts without fitters any year you want Go hunt doll sheep in in what? We’ll just label as over the counter areas. But there are areas like the Toque management unit and the Chew GA 14 C units like that 13 that Yep. That they control the number of tags. They set a a quota aside for non-residents and residents.

01:15:48:25 –> 01:16:24:25
You generally in almost all cases have to have an agreement signed with an outfitter By law all non-residents have to hunt with an outfitter up there or a first degree of Kindred. That’s right. Relative signing a contract with an outfitter. It’s just a formality. You gotta do it. Yeah. So you know get that taken care of. It does allow you to apply for units that on generally are gonna have more mature rams and maybe a better chance at a trophy ram without having resident pressure flooding there or whatever. They’re generally like the chew got is close to Anchorage. It’s mainly just to keep all the Alaska to residents from just over hunting it. That’s basically why we’ve got what we’ve got and and it does. They do offer great hunts, you know. Well,

01:16:24:25 –> 01:16:45:01
Having said that you are applying and to hunt a better quality animal, you’re not gonna save money on the guide fee. No. Your guide fees might even be more. Yeah, it’s not you’re gonna spend, it’s about, it’s not about saving money up there. It’s about, I’m applying for these units that are managed for trophy quality versus like you said, kind of indicating over the counter for residents. That’s right. And

01:16:45:01 –> 01:17:02:29
Non-residents. That’s right. So we do cover it. It’s an early application deadline. Usually mid-December. Yeah. So if you’re considering that, it usually takes a little bit of planning ahead of time. You gotta get a contract signed. A lot of times people are still hunting in November, early December. Just, just something to be aware of. We do cover Alaska as well. So, so

01:17:02:29 –> 01:17:05:19
It’s, and we can help you find an outfitters

01:17:05:20 –> 01:17:11:17
And, and just like any of these states help you figure it out, we can help you get hooked up with them, get the contract signed and whatnot.

01:17:11:27 –> 01:17:41:03
So Wyoming’s one of those states it’s, it does have some great elk hunting. It’s got marginal deer hunting. Although there’s some big bucks that, you know, the general, the general areas like region G and H like I, Adam you know is we’ve maybe alluded to earlier in earlier in this podcast, I can’t even remember exactly everything we’ve talked about. But the GGNH are over the counter for residents and yet they’re killing some of the big biggest deer in the state. It’s an odd situation. Yeah. It’s like some of our giants on our general down here in Utah

01:17:41:03 –> 01:17:42:25
Being the best in the state. Well yeah, the,

01:17:43:06 –> 01:18:06:29
The biggest deer in the state of Utah killed last year. Well depending on, we’d have to go fish on nets and stuff. Yeah, yeah. But so every year some of the biggest deers aren’t killed on the Henrys. The Henrys they’re killed up here on the mountain and so on. Our general. And so anyway, having said that, you know some of the traditionally good units 1 0 2, 1 0 1, 1 28, somebody drew 1 28 in this circle. But anyway, good

01:18:06:29 –> 01:18:07:11
Luck John.

01:18:09:01 –> 01:18:26:07
Anyway. Offer some good, some good hunts relatively speaking. But it’s relative. It’s not, not one of those states. Not a I feel bad. I think Wyoming could have, could be do much better than it is. And I think even the residents know that the residents just aren’t willing to give up hunting every single year and buying that tag over

01:18:26:07 –> 01:19:03:19
The counter. Yeah. And I, their genetics are great for deer. They just simply don’t manage on their, and they do have limited entry units unit, you know, like you said 1 0 1, 1 0 2 89 90. They just don’t manage them for trophy deer. It’s mainly they have to carve ’em out of the general units ’cause they get pounded when they’re in the general. That’s right. So let’s just control the hunting pressure. It’s not two, let’s grow giant bucks. No elk is a kind of a different story. It’s a great elk state and there’s something for everybody. Yeah. There’s general season tags that you get to draw every other year. There’s units that you now need 11 or 12 points and which is max and you still can’t draw ’em. Yeah. So all ends of the trophy spectrum.

01:19:03:21 –> 01:19:28:17
Well we’ve killed some, you know we’ve killed some bulls up there. I’ve hunted with my dad and killed a 400 inch bull in Unit 61 Carter Mountain. Kind of, kind of an Yeah. Weird interesting name. But anyway, we’ve hunted 58 in some of these different units up there and of course shot ’em. You’ve hunted in unit seven and I mean there’s, there’s just a lot of, a lot of good opportunity up there for hunting 3 40, 3 50 to three 80 plus poles.

01:19:28:18 –> 01:19:42:25
Yep. Or easier to draw stuff that’s two 80 to three 20 tons of those. And then you know we left out antelope you can’t, it’s an amazing an why, why don’t we without mention antelope my go-to state for antelope. Yeah. I mean you’ve got some, you’ve got trophy units and

01:19:43:05 –> 01:19:52:04
You got the way you guys Cape Antelope is amazing. I’ve never seen guys at Cape Antelope like you. It’s unique for sure. So anyway,

01:19:52:18 –> 01:19:53:23
But yeah Eastern’s

01:19:53:23 –> 01:19:54:16
Using a shovel but

01:19:54:29 –> 01:20:24:07
Yeah leave that to your imagination. But antelope have extreme trophy units with high amounts of public land and low tag numbers if you wanna wait that long. Some of the red desert units somewhere in between. And then you got the eastern third of the state, which is heavily, heavily private land and you can hunt antelope every single year there is there gonna require some knocking doors or an outfitter or landowner type hunting situation. But if you’re ever wanna hunt antelope or you like to hunt them, everybody should be playing for antelope up. There

01:20:24:07 –> 01:20:24:13
Should be

01:20:24:21 –> 01:20:25:13
An up there,

01:20:25:13 –> 01:20:46:11
You know. And so as far as the sheep, goat, and moose absolutely be applying, you know there’s a lot of units that don’t have random tags and so you can see when you’re gonna be able to draw for the guys that have a lot of points for the sheep, goat, and moose and so not goat, sheep and moose. So you can kind of see when you’re gonna draw and then you can see what your random drawing odds are if you don’t have very many points. That’s

01:20:46:12 –> 01:20:57:01
So that’s right. They give 75% of the tags in Wyoming. This is for non-residents for moose, sheep, and goat and darl can antelope to applicants with the most points. The other 25% go randomly and random

01:20:57:01 –> 01:20:59:28
Draw and if there’s only three or less tags, yeah

01:20:59:28 –> 01:21:17:22
They’ll all go to max points. And so, you know, we use that in our application strategy for our guys. We’re not gonna put ’em in for unit X if Unit X gave two tags last year and is gonna do it this year and they’re both gonna go to people with 18 points ’cause you have no random chance that guy just wasted sending in $2,200 for a sheep application.

01:21:17:22 –> 01:21:22:17
But there’s a lot of people that do that because they only want the best unit. Well the best unit is not available.

01:21:22:24 –> 01:21:25:22
It’s the best unit that you can draw in your situation.

01:21:25:24 –> 01:21:32:04
That’s what we do. You know, we do the best unit that you can draw, that you even have a 1% chance of drawing if you want the best we look at

01:21:32:04 –> 01:21:32:27
It, you need a random chance,

01:21:32:29 –> 01:21:49:07
0% chance. But you can still submit that application. You know, we don’t do it that way but some, some people do. So anyway, and then it is an interesting state whereas if there was, let’s say there’s two non-resident tags and you put in as a party of four, your guys could all draw, they issue more tags,

01:21:49:07 –> 01:21:54:21
They’ll exceed the quota to, to meet your group. It’s a great group application state for that very reason. Didn’t

01:21:54:21 –> 01:21:58:11
Really get down to the last tag available And your, your group’s drawn, they’ll give you all tags. That’s right.

01:21:58:11 –> 01:22:11:01
It’s nice. Didn’t really talk about that. But if you ever have a group party applications, it’s very easy to pull those together in our application system. Some states have limitations where you can and can’t do that. Yeah, yeah. But we can go through that on an individual by individual basis. But we

01:22:11:01 –> 01:22:18:23
Don’t need to get that detail, I don’t think. But but for the, for the purposes of this podcast, it’s just a little something, something that’s one state that offers that.

01:22:19:06 –> 01:22:47:24
I think one thing that, that we really need to cover is licensed application service and having people do your applications for you. You know, are, are you a good candidate for that? Or you know, can you do it on your own? ’cause you can do all of this on your own. I like to to say it’s similar to doing your taxes. Something you can do on your own. Can somebody else, but do you do it it, right. Do you wanna do it? People really like do you have time? Right. Yeah. I’d say if you’ve ever missed an application deadline, you’re a good candidate and

01:22:47:24 –> 01:22:52:17
If you re miss one every year or whatnot, it might be something you wanna consider.

01:22:52:17 –> 01:23:48:24
Well sometimes Jeff, you miss one. You know, depending on the particular application it is, it might set you back 10 years. Yeah. You can’t catch up. It’s, it’s one of those things, and we’ve talked about a lot of these states that taken 15 to 20, 25 plus points. One point is a monumental kicking you out of the max point pool kicking you out down to whatever, you know, and, and so anyway, it’s a very, it’s a tough, you know, a very interesting dynamic and and it’s one of those things where we can’t tell you if you’re a good candidate, only you can tell you. But we have a lot of guys that want us to do it just because we’re not gonna miss a deadline. And, but they tell us which units they want. So you can still choose your units and have us doing ’em. Yeah. And, and some guys are just busy. They’re doing construction, doing whatever, foreman on jobs. They’re, they’re working, you know, 25 outta 24 hours in a day and they absolutely do not have time to do it, but they wanna be in charge of their applications. No problem. You’re in charge. Just tell us what you wanna do and we’ll do it.

01:23:49:05 –> 01:24:27:23
We’ve made it fairly simple as well in terms of a fee structure. It’s either $50 for a state or a hundred dollars a state depending on if you’re doing, you know, one to two species is 53 or more in a state is a hundred dollars at any time your application total gets to $500. It stops. It stops. Yeah. We alluded to that a little bit earlier when we were talking about some of the states like California or maybe the Washington or Oregon. We did, yeah. We’re not just simply gonna talk you into adding everything and racking up a bill of, you know, 800,000, 1500, $2,500 like some other application services will, will rack up. Yeah. That’s ridiculous. That’s almost a guided hunt for some species in two years. You do

01:24:27:23 –> 01:24:29:19
It for three years, you’ve got a heck of a great That’s right.

01:24:29:19 –> 01:24:55:25
Elk tag into Mexico’s. So you can’t spend more than $500 a year with us. And, and we’ve I think covered the, the rationale behind our research and you know, in the magazine that we do, we’re doing that. We eat, drink, sleep, drawing and obtaining tags in the west as far as, you know, writing the Epic Outdoors magazine we have that we’re gonna evaluate your application as, as yours, but also through our eyes because we look at, we look at things the way we look at ’em. ’cause that’s what we’ve done for 20, 20 years.

01:24:56:09 –> 01:25:38:22
Well and I just, you know, it’s hard. I I I was a little apprehensive about doing this podcast ’cause it’s, it’s hard to talk about yourself or you know, what you do and maybe why you’re the best at it and why you think you, what separates you out from everybody else. But this is something we’ve, we actually, we live, we’ve lived for, for 20 plus years. You know, when I was in college and we’re talking in 19 94, 95, I was, I was applying in Arizona, you know, on my credit card to get points and stuff. And so, and I know Adam, you were the same. And, and we’ve just, we’ve lived it, breathed it, drank it. And these are the only, this is the only way we’ve ever obtained tags. Now we’re buying a few little landowner tags here and there to supplement our draws and we recommend you do it too.

01:25:38:26 –> 01:26:17:01
But it’s, you know, there’s a time and your life changes and as things change, your application strategies change. And, and that’s what we do. We, we, we work with people depending on what their situation is. And it doesn’t matter what your situation is, everybody should be applying. I’ve got multimillionaire guys applying. I mean, ’cause like we’ve talked about, it’s hard to buy your way in everywhere. If it’s a hundred thousand dollars bill to buy a governor’s tag for an Oregon sheep or whatever it is, every time you want to go do something, it’s still tough to justify for these people. And so there’s the draw system is for everyone. It’s just how you’re gonna use it and how you’re gonna mold it to what your situation and needs are. That’s

01:26:17:01 –> 01:26:58:18
Right. So yeah, if you have any interest, you know how to get ahold of us. That’s hopefully a breakdown on our license application. There’s a lot more ins and outs we’ve taken a bunch of time to try to go through the states and how they all work. There’s a lot more to it than that. We take it very seriously, like we said, a $500 maximum each year. If you’re, if you only do two or three states, that might be two, $200, 150, $200. You know, it’s not a 500 or nothing, you know, glad to help you out. Whether it’s a last minute deadline that you need to make, or if you’re only doing sheep in three or four states, you know, we have guys that do that, and we have guys that do 10 or 12 states and we do ’em all for ’em. Yeah. Now we can, we can handle it. We’re never gonna miss a deadline. We’ll treat your application with respect to what you want that year outta your application strategy.

01:26:58:22 –> 01:27:45:07
There’s a lot of, you know, it’s interesting, like we have a lot of clients that do have us do our, their licenses and, and, but we take pride in it. Having said that, Adam and I choose everybody’s units. We, we put our hands, so to speak, on every application that goes outta the office, whether it be online or paper, and, and I think we’re, we’re, you know, we’re gonna maintain that. That’s what separates us is, is we do it ourselves. We’ve drawn a lot of tags this year. I cannot tell you, I I, and I don’t want to tell you necessarily, but it’s an amazing amount of, of tags that we’ve drawn this year. And, and a lot of it is due to the fact that we’re analyzing the odds. We’re analyzing exactly what they want. A three 40 bull, a 3 45 bull, a 360 bull, or a 400 bull or whatever it is.

01:27:45:09 –> 01:28:22:12
Same thing with Mulder, same thing with sheep, goat, moose, everything. And we’re analyzing the old odds, depending on the weapon that they’re comfortable with, whether it be archery, muzzle, rifle. And we’re tailoring it Exactly. Tailoring it. ’cause we want you to draw, we want ’em to draw. We want ’em to book hunts. We want them to, to be able to hunt here in the west and to be successful. There’s a lot of services out there, and we know firsthand that have, here’s three choices. Every one of our guys are going in for these three choices. Let’s get it done as fast as we can do it. We want to get it done fast. We get that we have a busy workday, but at the same time, we, it’s our job to draw our guys tags.

01:28:22:13 –> 01:28:44:10
Yeah. The tags they want, not just random tags. We, we value the criteria and the interview view process we’ve had with them and what they’ve told us they want. The weapon type, the trophy criteria, guided self-guided physical limitations, all those types of things that they’ve given us. Match that the best we can because if they do it for five or 10 years and never draw anything, and sometimes that can happen.

01:28:44:16 –> 01:28:52:06
You’re gonna lose clients if you don’t draw ’em tags and you’re gonna lose clients if you draw ’em the wrong text. That’s right. And and abuse their points. That’s right. That they’ve saved up. And so,

01:28:52:07 –> 01:28:59:06
So we, we understand that because we live it. Our, we’ve lived it ourselves for so long in time terms of how we try to acquire our own tags.

01:28:59:11 –> 01:29:35:15
Well, and it, and it’s how we’ve done, it’s how we’ve been so successful over the years. We’ve, we’ve hunted a lot of country. We’ve killed a lot of game and we’ve done it large part 50, 60, 70% through the draw process. And so, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s the name of the game. You have to do it. If you want to go hunt, you can go hunt if we want. You need some landowner tags, no problem. You don’t need the license app service to do that. But just as buying landowner tag or just as buying landowner tags, supplements, the draws, the draws, supplement landowner tags, you’ve gotta do it all. There’s a place in a time and place for all of it.

01:29:35:27 –> 01:29:54:18
And I’d say one of the side benefits to being a licensed application client is we know your preferences in each state so intimately that if another opportunity comes up for a landowner tag that’s in a state that you’re not doing, we’re gonna say, Hey, call you up. Yeah. And got an opportunity that, that you may have missed if you weren’t a client.

01:29:54:21 –> 01:30:30:21
Well, and we have guys, we have guys, John that talked to Adam and I about maybe, you know, Hey, I’m willing to go, I’ve got the points. If you find me the right opportunity with the right private land piece and the right outfitter in Wyoming for Deere, I will go, if you can find the right antelope pump for me in Wyoming, I will go, I’ve got the points and I’m ready to go. And so we will have openings come up, we call ’em, we go through the license app guys. We figure out, here’s five guys that this will work for. And they will love this hunt. And we draw ’em the tag tag, they’re all draw and they gore all like, and so it’s, it’s everything. It’s, it’s, it’s interactive. It’s very interactive. When you’re doing a license app service, you’re interacting with the guide, hunt, hunt side.

01:30:30:21 –> 01:30:57:09
You’re interacting with everything. And sometimes there’s just DDIY so to speak, guys, the guys that just wanna do it on their own. Hopefully we’ve hunted at the areas and we can help ’em. If not, we have a member experience list where we can send ’em names and numbers of members who’ve hunted these units in the past. And in large part, people are willing to help each other because these are tags that don’t come around very often and they’re not gonna be, you know, hunting against each other, so to speak, every year, year in and year out. So anyway, as

01:30:57:09 –> 01:31:37:10
Far as maybe a timeline, the Alaska doll sheep in December’s the first deadline, then starting the first of the year when everything kinda kicks off. So if you’re interested in having a take care of your license applications, you can visit our website. The application forms are on there. Just realize at the end of the year, first of the year, is that time we really like to have a, a visit and a strategy building process for that year. Doesn’t mean you couldn’t call us in February or March and say, Hey, I’ve been behind. I missed a state or two. Pick me up from here on. We we’re always glad to do that. But looking ahead, if you’re watching this considering or have another service, do your applications already? Give us a call. See if we can help you do it in a better way. Yeah,

01:31:37:11 –> 01:32:25:12
We’d love to visit with you. We do it every day. And so anyway, we’ll do it this summer. We’re happy to visit with you here in July before the Hunts get going and get things going, get you over onto the Epic application service and get you in our system. We’re a very interactive service, very personalized service, and we’d love to visit with you. And you know, you can reach us at 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7 or you can email us [email protected] that comes to our secretary. She sends it to us. We’ll be back in touch with you. And like Adam said, you can download the forms on the web, mail ’em in, send ’em in over the email, take pictures with your phone and send ’em in. Or we can just do it over the phone. Either way, we’re gonna wanna visit with you over the phone and finalize those applications and, and make sure we’re doing exactly what you want us to do. So,

01:32:25:18 –> 01:32:37:07
And I just say it’s never too late to start building points, even if you’re older, you know, a lot of us who draw, we’re starting at zero. And so you’re starting with a lot of other guys and Yeah,

01:32:37:14 –> 01:33:27:19
Never too late. Never too late. Just like you said, John, you’re hunting in Colorado every three, yeah, three years. Some of us are hunting it every single year. And so you can draw a second choice this year, gain a point, you know, apply and get points and whatnot. And then, like we talked about earlier, Adam, like you guys can draw with zero points here in the state of Utah. You can draw with zero points in the state of Nevada. New Mexico doesn’t have a point system. Idaho doesn’t have a point system. There’s a lot of opportunities out there, and you cannot draw unless you’re in the draw. So anyway, that’s our job to get you tags and to, you know, help you on the different aspects of your hunting desires and what you wanna do. Develop a 0 1 5 year, 10 year, 15 year plans, plus plans, 20 year plans, and, and to get you tags and just let you know of the opportunities that are out there. And it’s your job to tell us what you wanna do. All right guys. That’s it, huh? Yep. All right. Till next time. Till.