EP 52: Making Every Stalk Count with SIG OPTICS

It's the best rangefinder I've ever used. Very rarely do we have a level shot at a sheep. Lightweight, compact, accurate, long-ranging. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here and Adam Bronson of Epic Outdoors with another podcast. We've got an awesome guest with us here today. Hi, Craig. It's six hours. Super excited to dive in with him here. We do want to, before we get started, thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast, as well as some of the different things we're working with them on. So anyway, really appreciate them and the hunting industry and the support they give us as hunters. Anyway, the Hunt Expo will be happening February 8th to 11th up here in northern Utah at the Salt Palace Convention Center there in Salt Lake City. We'll be there. We'll be booth number 2845. So Epic Outdoors will be there. It'll be Adam Bronson, John and Chris Peterson, as well as Jeff John and myself, Jason Carter. Booth number 2845. We'd never miss it. It's a 20 by 50 booth.

We're going to have a lot of great animals there. Of course, visiting with everybody about their hunt strategies and applying across the West and obtaining tags and hunts and whatnot. So it's a place we get to meet and greet a lot of our different members of Epic Outdoors and just spend a lot of time there with people. And so anyway, we'd encourage everybody to go. It'll be the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo. You can sign up, which is basically there's different packages available. If you want to take part in the day events as well as the night events, you know, you can sign up and reserve your place there. Or you can walk the floor and you can do that by just showing up and buying a simple, you know, day pass. And so there will be conservation tags to apply for. They're five bucks a piece. And it's kind of a separate application for Utah tags other than the regular drawings.

So you do have to validate those in person. So it's a good excuse to kind of show up, apply for some of the different hunts, excuse me, tags as well, and then walk the floor and visit. So anyway, plan to be there February 8th to 11th. We'll be there in booth number 2845. Craig, hey, Jason Carter and Adam Brownson here at Epic Outdoors. How are you? Hey, guys. How you doing? I'm great. Good, man. Well, I appreciate you being willing to spend a little time with us here today and just kind of talk about 6th Hour and a few things you guys got going. Yeah, absolutely. I really appreciate you guys affording us the opportunity to get on. So we're looking forward to it. You bet. So anyway, I guess I don't know really where to start other than I guess maybe give us a little introduction of yourself, your current position, and then maybe just a little history and background on yourself,

and then we can dive into the company and some of those fun things. Yeah, absolutely. No problem. A little bit about my background. I'm born and raised in Oregonian. Never left the state really. I even went to college here. And so I grew up in the hunting industry, so to speak, just being out in the outdoors and just being taught the heritage of hunting and, you know, the food it provides and obviously the camaraderie and just the whole dynamics of family behind it. So that's really it. It's a small town.

Oregonian. I grew up in Southern Oregon. And how I got to SIG was kind of a long route getting into the industry, but always kind of looked into getting into it coming out of college. Just a lot of times it's just being in the right place at the right time or being connected. So that's kind of how it worked out, you know, a few years later. But I met Andy York, our current president of the SIG Optics division, and Scott Smith, our vice president of product development, and another one of our team members, Joe Frick-Tel, when we were all working together over at Blunt International for a couple of years. In 2012, I met those guys. And then shortly after, when they started SIG Optics up and got it really off the ground, they brought me over to kind of fill the same role I was doing over at Blunt International, which at the time I was offering with the Oregon Cutting System.

So those are the people out there that might not know the name Blunt, but Oregon was the modern-day inventor of chainsaw guide bars and tall chains. Oh, okay. Anyway, so channel distribution and sales support is really what I do over here at SIG Optics. So distribution to dealer, rep support, all the way down to consumer support. My team here runs technical service and customer service specifically through the optics side. So really kind of an all-around role here at SIG Optics involving sales, operations, marketing, and the customer service role. Okay. And so, like, how long have you been involved or how long have you been employed with SIG? Like, how? I've been over, yeah, okay, thanks. I've been with SIG Optics for two and a half years. Okay. I came over in June of 2015 and just in time to kind of ramp up and get ready to start shipping product.

We started shipping in latter part of September 2015. Okay. And so we've always known, I mean, just to kind of, maybe, I guess we're kind of into the company portion of it, but we've always known SIG to be major into the firearms, pistols, things like that. And then now they're kind of, you know, I don't know, almost somewhat of a leader in some portions of the optics side of it. When did all that occur? How did that happen? Okay. Yeah. So the leadership of SIG USA came in and was starting to take a look at how to be more innovative in the industry and provide more system offerings, so to speak. So part of that was why not equip SIG firearms with an optics line? Well, SIG didn't want to just go strategically partner or slap a name on a product, so to speak. So I decided in 2014 that they wanted to go around strategically to grow the business.

And so roughly in Q4 of 2014, excuse me, Q2 of 2014, the company started to acquire talent in the optics industry and started to grow the business organically. Wow. So along with the system approach, so to speak, SIG now offers products in the line of silencers, ammo, and we also have an air rifles division that the spec is to match our current firearms. So it's used as training modules at different places domestically and internationally. So that's the last two, three years, like, you know, about the time you came on then, is that when they probably needed, if you're going to branch out and do more in optics and whatnot, they obviously need to employ some more people to get the word out, work with dealers, reps, and all that. Is that kind of when you got on board? Yeah. Is that when that branching out all started taking place? That's correct.

You know, any ground-up company, so to speak, obviously we had the foundation of the support of SIG USA and the experience and leadership from there. But really, we grew it organically from the ground up. And as any new startup, you have to start small and add pieces as the investments come in. And then you grow it further as the revenue start coming in. So I put a little bit of perspective of how we've been successful in the, you know, this really being not even our complete second year, full year of shipping. We're still, like, get through November here and one more month in December. But I was approximately the 10th full-time employee brought in, and now we're sitting at 32 full-time employees. Wow. So 32. Is that 32 just in that hunting side? Or is it for, and obviously, I mean, I don't know on their firearm side, it's probably, I mean, is that just 32 on the hunting side?

Or is that the company's home? No, that's a great question. That is specifically to the opsics division. So that doesn't include any of the several hundred that are back in New Hampshire. So that is specifically our division. No shared services involved with those numbers. That's basically out of the facility here in Portland, Oregon. And we do have one remote in Portland that works, our employee that works out of Bozeman, Montana, on the sales training side. But that's specifically the SIG optics, you know, basically division. Wow. That is crazy. And I'm looking on your website, and I can see all kinds of, you know, rifle ammo, pistol ammo. I mean, you guys are going crazy on this stuff.

Yeah, we are. You know, it's just really the approach is to provide a system to the user, whether that's the leisurely shooter or the collector or target practice enthusiast, all the way down to the hunter and the tactical user. So it's a really exciting time to be involved and to see the business grow. You know, there was actually an article just posted yesterday by American Rifleman that talked about, you know, our success with our system and their approach and kind of a gamble we took to grow it, you know, strategically and organically. And so, yeah, we're really starting to optimize to, you know, additional quality of our optics and our ammo and everything else that the company does. So it's an exciting time to be at SIG as an employee and representing the line.

It's also an exciting time to see consumers like yourselves and users to start picking up product and really starting to embrace the quality of what we've done over at the optics side. So how would you, I mean, give us your sales pitch, but that's kind of sounds pretty generic. But since you are, you know, an optics company or the optics division is so new, tell us what is, why should people consider optics? You know, our listeners probably sometimes today are going to hear about some of your products for the first time. So what, where they made, how they made, all those types of things, what make them great options for them to consider. I mean, we'll get into the specifics here about some of your products that Jason and I have been using the last couple of years, range finders and whatnot later.

But, but just as kind of an overall feel of the optics division, because, you know, there's a lot of other options out there, obviously. And so what, what do you guys feel either is new or innovative or unique to you a little bit, you know, where is it made and all those types of stuff just to help educate our listeners. Okay. Yeah. All right. That's a good question. Thanks, Adam. So for the most part, we're going to, we're going to all come from hunting outdoors backgrounds. And so we feel we have a really strong grasp of what we would like to see in the field. So then that transfers to what is useful to the user, whether that's an individual entering into the hunting industry or they've been around for a while, or even people that are just bird enthusiasts.

And what it comes down to is just really keeping products to the forefront on the sides of quality, which is six hours mantra, repeatability, and then accuracy. So that, that may not apply to the full entire line, you know, for talking about binoculars or spotting scopes from the standpoint of point aim and point impact with such a rifle scopes and red dots. But, um, we want to keep that in mind. And then where we, as typical, passionate outdoors people here, uh, ergonomics are really important to us, whether it's the fit and the feel or, you know, how does it feel, uh, on our eyes? How is that glass working in low light, bright light, uh, environments? How is the rangefinders reading it accurately in all different ambient light conditions? So we wrap that all up and put that into our specs, our engineer designs, whether that's, you know, an ID or internals.

And then we go out like most high quality brand branded, uh, optics manufacturers or optics brand these days. And we are going to contract manufacturers and we're saying, Hey, we want, for instance, in Japan would be one example. And we would say, Hey, here's our design. Here's our spec. Here's what we want to be built to these standards. And then, you know, it's from a, from a Franken type to a prototype stage. Obviously these contract manufacturers have been in the industry for a while. There's, there's, um, you know, a handful that do the majority of the manufacturing of optics in the world. Um, so we partnered with, um, so we partnered with, with the best of those. And, uh, and then we take the, you know, prototypes and then we test them rigorously, um, uh, against our standards, whether that's a SIG standard or our own, uh, internal SIG optic standard.

But, uh, we have the ability to live fire and test our products, uh, unlike any of our other manufacturers in that we're a firearms manufacturer and we have the, the assets to do that equipment and the, uh, um, ability to do that. And from a sample of repeatability and accuracy, we want to be able to know that with the SIG name that we're putting on a product, it's going to hold up. So what, uh, maybe, um, kind of an overall view, are you, what, like, what's your mission statement? Are you trying to be the best? Are you trying to, are you trying to match or beat Swarovski, um, or Zeiss or like, uh, is it, or you don't care about those companies? You don't, you pretend there's no optics out there. We're going to do it. What we want to do at a price point that, that fits average, the average income, the high income. Are you trying to be the number one product?

Like, what is the mission statement, so to speak, of your optics division? You know, we always talk about, you know, see the difference and where that comes from is really the electro optic side and the innovation, uh, that we're bringing into it for the available technologies that may not have been used prior, uh, in the optics industry and back and end up with superior design and engineering. And so, um, we, we feel that with that high quality that we're coming with, we are going to be of like a European, uh, ie Swarovski like quality, but at a price that would be not at that premium. So we're coming in at a very affordable, uh, price, um, to the, let's say average user, so to speak, some guys that are really wanting to step up. And, uh, I've always been the believer of, uh, buy the best glass that you could afford. Yeah. So, yeah, I've got several Swarovski pieces of equipment.

Um, do you feel like they're comparable? Like, do you feel like they're comparable? Oh yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, our rifle scopes, uh, compare very well, low light conditions, um, with, with, with Swarovski, even our, some of our binocular line, uh, are fantastic. Uh, our Oscar seven spotting scope will hold up very well against some, uh, Swarovski HD stuff. Uh, we, we have some, some things that we would need to work on, but as far as Christmas, clarity, ergonomics, uh, trying to keep, uh, you're on the right track. You're just saying we're on the right track. We've been doing it a couple of years. We're on the right track and, uh, and very comparable. And that's kind of, that's kind of what I wanted to get to. And part of this, and I don't mean to grill you, but, but we kind of do that a little bit, but, uh, is Adam and I have been using your range finder. We've got the Kilo 2400.

I think Adam's got a couple of models, the 2400 and the 2000, but, but anyway, and, and, uh, it's very impressive. It's the best range finder I've ever used. Um, it'll, it'll range find through my front windshield, which means, you know, if it's, uh, if it's snowing or, or starting to snow or a little bit of fog, if it can do my front curved windshield, I'm sure. Um, and it's fast. It's, it's, it's unbelievably fast. It's instantaneous. And, and of course the angles built into it, the temperature, your humidity, all of the factors, um, your elevation automatically are in there. My, my gun loads in there. It's just telling me dial to this MOA, mill rats, whatever units you're in, you can put that in. There's an app on your phone and I'm just kind of giving a, just a brief overview for, for our listeners. Cause it's, it's, it's relatively new.

And, uh, you know, as far as, uh, the industry and, and, and Adam and I are aggressively involved in the industry and it's fairly new to us. So I'm sure it's new to a lot of users out there. And, and, and so with that, that's why we wanted to talk to you is, is if it's, if your range finders are that good and it's dealing with all the electronics in there and it's in a small package and, and built right. And it's working, we're killing stuff with it, using that system. I want to know more about the optics. I want to know more about the rifle scopes. Like you're onto something. And that's, and that's why Adam and I are, you know, and the rest of the guys here at Epic. And of course our listeners are, are hearing more about you and, and we want to know more about what, what you guys have got going on.

Well, yeah. Thanks Jason. Uh, obviously I've seen your success, uh, with what you guys have been able to do with those range finders. So, um, I call that the litmus test. So guys that are successful and are showing people that, Hey, I'm using some equipment and it's helping me, you know, harvest animals or just be a better hunter, you know, be able to use equipment, um, in a manner that may not have been used before. I mean, I'll use my range finders up in the wilderness area in Idaho, just for, you know, I've got a herd spotted and I'll, okay. I know where they're at. How far are they? Okay. I'm, I'm at, uh, 2000 yards. Cause I know I can hit trees sometimes at 2000 yards and good light.

So I'll be able to dictate, okay, how, how long is it going to take me to get that herd and get in the shooting position to take a, you know, an ethical shot at, at, at the last few minutes of legal shooting light. So, um, not everyone has got a range finder out there that can range, you know, let's, you know, our specs written on that Kibo 20 per hundred, uh, up to 18, 90 yards on trees. Uh, that's, that's typically, uh, in your, your, your lower light, um, situation. And that's, that's your, uh, that's your, uh, that's your, more of your hard, your hard foliage on deciduous trees and things like that. But, um, there's, there's nothing out there today that is in such a lightweight, compact, accurate, long ranging. Um, and you spoke about being quick. I mean, it's our hyper scan system will give four readings per second.

We're sending several thousand pulses of, of laser down, um, a second. We're getting those readings back. So even if you're not able to get on a single touch, you typically can hover on your target as long as it's in range and it's going to give you a reading back. So it's, um, it's tremendous, uh, how this, how our range finders have really, you know, given us a sustantiated foundation in the optics industry. What's the big difference when you say the kilo, uh, 850, 1250, 2000, 2200? Is that, is that yardage? Uh, is it, or is it, uh, the, the different features within it and it's just a number, you know? Uh, a good way, a good way to understand, uh, the product line breadth there is, is, yeah, it's typically a summation, so to speak, or a better way to put it is probably an average of the typical targets. We will range back.

So we'll range back, uh, steel targets, but you know, uh, metallic targets, um, reflectives, um, trees and hide. So it's typically an average of all those, um, yardages put into one, uh, one unit. So if you want to consider the kilo 850, yes, it doesn't have its, the features and benefits of the 2400. And we treat that as a good, better, best, so to, so to speak, product offering. But the 850 would not range as far based on, uh, the capabilities. So, so that's really a good way to put it. Um, and I'm not saying it's going to necessarily range up to 850, uh, on all targets. It's just that you're probably going to get down. You're going to get some good ranges on reflectives, probably about 600 on trees and then four or 500 on animals.

So, but for the price point for that particular unit that with the hyper scan mode, uh, and the angle modification range on that kilo 850, there's nothing in the industry that can, they could compete with it at that price point. Yeah. That thing sells for less than $200. So if you've got Midwest archery guy that doesn't need to range, you know, over a thousand yards, that range finder, uh, we'll give them four readings per second. We'll give them AMR and then also back it with, uh, uh, basically, basically an industry leading warranty of, of lifetime on, on product that for lenses, um, laser apertures. And then we do have a five year electronics warranty, but, uh, for anything that would keep that unit from giving, um, the function of observation, you got a lifetime on the range finder.

Well, well, I know, I know this year, uh, I used a lot, your 2000, a lot this year, both from, uh, I was looking for, you know, obviously smaller, the better this day and age from a range finder standpoint, but one that could be used in all the things we've been talking about. That, that, that hit quick could be used long range when I'm rifle hunting, but also can be used up close when I'm archery hunting because, you know, whether we're hunting elk or deer or whatever, um, in very steep train, you know, the difference in 10 yards is, is a miss with a bow. So if you're ranging something at 16, it's really 42 yards because the angle or whatever, you know, or 48 yards or whatever. So I want to something, and that's the one I settled with and I really, really enjoyed it.

And I also ended up taking a lot of clients as an outfitter primarily for bighorn sheep and use it on all 12 of my sheep hunts this year with clients. And there's very, very rarely do we have a level shot at a sheep. Usually we're below or above and we're shooting down on them, usually down on top because we usually try to approach our sheep from up above if at all possible. And, um, very, very impressed with how, how accurate because whether they use my rifle or they bring their own, which obviously the 2000 doesn't have the programmability of, of all of the guns, which, you know, hunters are bringing their own guns. I'm not going to be able to do that in my 2400 like, like, uh, we have now, but just hold old, uh, accurate yardage readout. So I know where to tell them to hold if they've got a reticle or I know where to dial if they're in a yardage system or whatnot. Very, very impressed.

Um, you know, you know, we don't, we don't lob a lot of long shots at bighorn sheep. It's a once in a lifetime hunt. We're not, we're not sitting down and seeing how far we can kill one of those. That's not our target. However, many times we've got nothing but open air between us. We're on a rim and the sheep's across the canyon and they're 515 yards and with angle. And you need to know exactly where to hold on that because you can't get any closer. And if you miss your follow-up shots, if they're running away are going to be very difficult because you can't get closer. You got open air. So anyway, lots of things like that where precision matters. And I've been very impressed this year, both, you know, both from an archery standpoint, I used it on deer and elk hunts this year with a bow as well as rifle hunts. So, you know, it's the only products up to this point that I've used.

I've been very impressed as Jason's talked about himself with everything I've seen. So, you know, from, I guess, maybe tell us how you feel that translates. I know maybe talk a little bit about, I know you do rifle scopes, you know, the binos, the spotting scopes, everything. Tell us what you feel maybe some of the best models and or features or specs within those types of products that you give that our listeners might be interested in, you feel. Okay. Yeah, great. Yeah. Well, first of all, that's fantastic about all the success you had with your clients in the field. I mean, the harvest 12 pighorns is incredible in one year. So that's awesome. And I'm glad to hear that our equipment helped with you and, you know, gave the shooters some confidence to put some animals on the ground. So that's awesome. So just a little bit about the AMR before I jump into some of the other products.

So just for the listeners that may not understand what angle modified range is, is basically it's an onboarding inclinometer that helps us read incline-decline angle, then modifies it to the effective ballistic shooting range, or that's for a rifle or bow. So we can go down to five yards up to whatever the range spec is, and then really detailed, we'll go all the way down to the tenth of a yard. So a lot of that building of that unit was due to the passion for bow hunting that some of our leadership team here has in our engineers. So they knew how important it was to provide a tool like that and be fully confident that they could depend on it. So that's something that we took using some of that standard, you know, technology and concepts, and then built that into, let's say, our Whiskey 5 and our Tango 6 rifle scope line.

We now have, within that product line, what would be called our Level Plex Anti-Camp Radical. So guys that are shooting longer ranges, and we'll call it five-and-yards and out, so to speak, but there is such a thing that reticle can't, or rifle can't, can actually affect bullet drift at five-and-yards and greater. And as we know, the long-range hunting is becoming more popular. You know, some people would second-guess the ethics behind that, but I think as technology has become better, shooters practice more, and elements are learned, and areas of hunting or patterns are understood in the climate, it's probably becoming a lot more acceptable. Well, and in the past, we've had... In the rifle? Yeah, in the past, well, in the past, currently, we have levels on our scope, you know, and we mount our scope, level with the rifle, with no rifle can't, the scopes, you hang a... Bubble.

Yeah, you've got to pull them out there, and you basically, your level, or your reticle's straight up and down, then you set that with your bubble level, you check the level before you pull the trigger. Yeah. Now, and I know I'm prefacing, but what does your rifle scope do? I mean, you're going to tell me... Okay. ...you're fixing it for me. Yeah, absolutely. So, most mainstream rifle scope manufacturers can only get the reticle within about one degree of accuracy within the scope. Okay. So, that's pretty much a standard. You know, through the years, it kind of was 3%, because 3% is what the human eye could see. But now the standard is down to one degree of accuracy. Okay. And then you throw... So, let me take a step back real quick. So, leveling and plumbing your scope and the rings is important. Also depends on eye position and how you're viewing it.

So, the everyday user may have to rely on telling them out that scope form and those rings, make sure things all copacetic form. Sure. From an onset, this allows the user to put it in the rings and confidently know that they've got their reticle level once they know that their rifle scope is, you know, that's in the rings plumb. They're still going to use a level and make sure their scope's plumb in there. But once you have that scope in there, then you want to level out the accuracy of how it's bedded in the rings. Level Flex is activated by the side knob on the illumination dial. And it's on our Whiskey 5 and our Tango 6 line. Whiskey 5 is our honey line. And Tango 6 is our tactical line. Okay. And these are our newer models. This wasn't the technology we came out when we established the product line. So, this is more of a 2017 model.

So, obviously, if you're buying online or, you know, buying at a retail store, you might want to make sure that if that is what you're, you know, if your user's interested in, in that particular technology, make sure it's got the Level Flex system. So, there's still some product out there that may not have this technology that's at our dealer base. But, anyways, it's activated at the illumination dial. And so, what it does is there's triangle left and right within the field of view inside the scope. So, it's an ambient yellow light. You can change the intensity of that brightness. But it also has a two-step round robin mode that you can get it down to half-degree accuracy or one degree. So, what that allows us to do is to get even more accurate for reticle cam than the manufacturer in the process can do. So, in simple terms, I'm looking through your scope. I'm looking through your scope.

And it's electronically telling me if it's level or not.

Correct. Is that what I'm, I mean, just tell me simply. Like, I'm looking through the scope. It's mounted properly. Yeah. The scope's mounted properly. I'm going to shoot something. And it's within the scope. There's an illumination, yellow light illuminated that tells me if it's candid or not or if it's level. Correct. Yeah. Sorry. I was getting kind of long-winded sometimes. Anyways, what I would get to is, so, you were speaking before Jason Adam was about the bubble level and the outside of your scope. Yep. So, it removes really the need to have a bubble level. Which is kind of nice because you've got, your eye has to leave the scope, look at the bubble, and go back into the scope. And you kind of do that a couple of times before you squeeze around off. Correct.

Now, I get to look at this, I look in there and I can see by the illuminated light, if it's level, it's giving me the green light, or yellow light, so to speak, to go ahead and pull the trigger. Oh, absolutely. Interesting. Yeah. So, yep. So, bubble levels are, at the most, about a three degree accurate. So, if we have the ability to remove that and keep the shooter on target by seeing the levelness within the field of view in the scope, it's a tremendous value add and a benefit. No, there's no question. To the shooter. And, having used your rangefinder, I'm pretty sure you've got the technology to do it. And so, I believe you when you say it works. I just, it's somewhat of a new concept to us, and maybe it's been out there for a while, but, and maybe in tactical lines it's been out there for a long time. And in different manufacturers, I'm not sure. Not as long as the hunting, for sure.

Yeah. Not the hunting line. Yeah. Well, yeah, it is patent-dependent technology. So, there's another manufacturer that came in behind us with a similar product, but ours was first to hit the street, so to speak. So, there's no other technology out there other than two different options today. And then, as the patents get approved and cleared, we'll see how things work out. But, let me put in a little bit of perspective to your listeners. So, let's say you're using our Kilo 20 per 100 rangefinder, and you're on your sheep hunt, just like you were talking about, Adam. And you range the animal at 400 yards, and you're shooting downhill. It's already giving you the angle modification range. And you know, Adam, and probably a lot of users, is the world's not level.

So, you could be on a slope shooting downhill, and you might still be candid, not only shooting down at a six-year angle, but you might also be, you know, sloped to the right. Because you're side-hilling, correct? Yeah. So, you've ranged the animal 400 yards, and now you're using the Kilo 20 per 100. So, with environmental sensors built into it, it's got humidity, temperature, pressure. It's now telling you, in a wind reading, it's now telling you how to make your adjustments based on that yardage. So, you're able to make your adjustment with your elevation. And if you need to on the wind, you can make those adjustments. Get back on scope. Animal's still in your field of view. And at that point, with the level flex engaged, you'll know when you're level and ready to take that shot. It's going to reduce the amount of bullet drift at longer distance. Yeah. Impressive. Impressive.

It's going to allow more accuracy, more animals to be put on the ground, a lot more shooter confidence out there, happy hunters, happy guides, all the above. So, it's really exciting. So, you've got the level part of the scope. What else is setting your rifle scopes apart from the standard rifle manufacturers? Yeah, I think just our design that we do with the turret systems, make sure that they're the best materials being used. It may not be always the case with other brands. It's making sure that we're going to have a wow for repeatability. A shooter that really shoots a lot or hunts a lot is going to be turning those turrets left, right, up, down substantially. So, we want materials to hold up in there. We're using some of the best glass technology that's available to us. We do some things with the glass. All our systems have spectra code in there.

So, there's a wide broadband spectrum of colors with clarity and crispness to go along with it for low-end, high-light, ambient light conditions. We're going to add things like lens armor and lens shield to the glass and those two scope lines. Lens armor would be basically scratch-resistant glass and then lens shield is an oleophobic mil-spec layer that we put on it to allow things like water, gunk, dirt, oil, blood, whatever to cleanly wipe off. We have a smear. We have a guy that we've all been out there and we can't quite get something off our lens and it's kind of bothersome. So, do you guys have reticle options as well as turrets? Yeah. I'm not going to probably go into a lot of detail with each of those. Yeah, that's fine. But either option. Yeah, either option. Yeah, so on our Tango 6 tactical line, which we're probably, I won't go all the way down to the one power stuff.

We're just mostly talking probably western style hunting guys. But we're going to have a million reticle, MLA and MRA million reticles. We'll have an MLA and MRA, what's called our DEVL reticle, which is basically a holdover reticle. So, more of the guys that used to quote-unquote Christmas tree style reticle, we have that available. Yeah.

What's in the, what's in the, what's in the, what's in the works? And in our health fire. What's in the works? There's a lot of, there's a lot of technology. Technology's going crazy right now. Of course, it's on the minds of game and fish agencies across the west on, on ethics. And at some point, you know, when does a guy say enough is enough? But, just wondering what's in the works. You guys are so innovative. You've proven it with some of your rangefinders. I mean, have you got some other things coming out? 2018, 2019, beyond? Or, anything you can talk about as far as that? That's not too secret. Yeah, we're going to continue to build on rifle scope, electro-optics innovations, and rangefinders. That'll be a hot topic for us. Because that's what we've done very well at. And that's what we're passionate about. So, we won't see anything. That's a shot show in advancements of that.

But, you know, later towards the year, and of course, the NRA shows the typical area. There are half-year launch of items. So, further advancements in rangefinder and rifle scopes. I can't get into too many details on that. But, some really mind-blowing sort of concepts that will continue to evolve all the way through many different arenas of the hunting industry. Awesome. We'll probably eventually start crossing into more of the crossbow and even more bow hunting sort of technologies. Wow. Which would be a huge advancements. Well, yeah. Because you guys have, I mean, it seems like unlimited potential where you dove right into ammo. All kinds of, all of this stuff, all of the stuff we've been talking about isn't something maybe that I've always, when somebody said six hour, that I'm always, that's what comes to mind. Oh, for sure.

You know, I'm thinking of, you know, obviously your pistols and some of your, you know, firearms. And so, anyway, that's all, it's all really exciting. I noticed on the binos, you're running with eights, nines, 15 power binos. And so, jumping right into the, kind of some of the long-range, you know, optics and different things like that as well. Oh, absolutely. So, if you've got users or listeners out there that are wanting to get into an affordable pair of high-quality binoculars, the Zulu 9 line and the Zulu 7 are absolutely a home run. The Zulu 9, it's got some of the best glass and light efficiency and light transmittance in the industry. And we would put our Zulu 9s up against any European brand out there. And we will be rolling out a 15x56 model in that set. And I'm guessing that that'll become one of our hottest movers. So, you've got the Zulu 6, Zulu 3, Zulu 6, Zulu 7, Zulu 9.

And obviously, so 9's your, kind of your top end, your top of the line. Yep. Okay. Yep. Yeah, it's kind of a good, better, best platform again on that. The Zulu 5 platform's going to change a little bit. We'll now just change the shot show. Just some general ID look changes on that. Just a fit feel. Added in that 12x50 set in there, because we currently do not have a 12 power in the lineup. Okay. Added that as well to the Zulu 7 line.

But Zulu 3 is a fantastic field set. That'd be great for use, or a light user, or maybe a lot of foul hunters. Someone that's wanting to get into a real good entry level set of binoculars. I love the fact that they're an open bridge, one-hand use, which is, you know, I've used them on turkey hunts. I've got guys that are archers, that's perfect for them. Yeah. We've still got a guy that might even need to look at the quarry out of 1,000, 1,200 yards. And then my favorite, just because I really love that open bridge, it's still got pretty high light transmittance. You know, upwards of 90% of light transmittance. Yeah. The Zulu 7's, 10x42's. And like I said, we're going to roll out a 12x50, which I'll probably end up shelving my 10x42's. But just from a lightweight, ergonomic, crisp, clarity, high light transmittance, they're fantastic. And then all the way up to Zulu 9.

Zulu 9's are the best class that we have out there. It allows us to really look in in the shadows instead of just seeing the shadows. So that's important. As you guys know, you should run in your high-end tarot ski. It's to be able to see into the rock crevices and be able to see into the deep shades of the trees and all that to where you can say, okay, there's an animal bedded there. Yeah. Well, and I think the price point, you know, is key. When guys are dealing with so much money and gear and trying not to get divorced three or four or five times. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Because there's so much money involved. And that's what I think is interesting about your price points and different things. You've also got some spotting scope blinds as well as some technology. Maybe you can talk about this electronic image stabilization feature and some of your scopes and how's that working.

Because back in the day, Zeiss had a 20-power pair of binos with image stabilizing. Clear back like, what, 15 years ago, Adam? 20 years ago? Yeah. And they were cool. Like, they were cool. People used them. And so that kind of, I mean, when we noticed that, you know, just wanted to know more about that. Yeah, no, that's awesome. I'm guessing 20 years ago, the technology did not allow that set of binaculars to be real ergonomic. No. They were pretty big and cumbersome. And then they were sensitive, too. Like, you could, you know, easy to break the components of it. So, anyway. Yeah, so a Western-style, maybe backcountry hunter where he's trying to cut down a little bit of weight and shelved the big spotter and the tripod. Um, would be interested in looking at our Oscar III mini spotting scope. Comes in a 10 to 20 power. And basically, it's got built-in SIG optic stabilizer in it.

So, with a pull of a lever, once you've got your, you're on target and you've got your focus dialed in, your flying focus, you can pull the electronic lever over from basically off to on. And it will electronically pull, freeze the frame by use of some gyroscopic electronics within it. Wow. So, it's pretty common what you might see in the camera world today. And so, we were able to use some technologies that have advanced and plug it in there and keep it lightweight. This thing comes in at 16 ounces. And, um, it really does reduce the wibbles and wobbles for a handheld stabilizer. So, is this, it's in a spot and scope, so it's a monocular, I mean, it's not, you don't have it in the binos yet. No. No, it's a monocular style. And it's 10 to 20 power. You've not got them in a 60 power. Oscar 7, got that? I'm sorry, what's the question?

In your Oscar 7 and your higher magnification status, just in the lower one, lower magnification. Oh, so that, that often, that, that SIG optic stabilizer is in the Oscar 3, and that's that handheld unit. So, our Oscar 7 would be our 10 by 60 by 82. It's starting to get in more of your, your, your larger spotting scopes. Any, any plans? Start carrying more, start. Any plans? Start carrying more weight. Yeah, a little more weight. But any plans to put the image stabilizing in higher power spotting scopes down the road? Uh, not, not, not at this time. Uh, it's just not real, uh, so much cost conducive. So, when you're starting to get into a, uh, $1,500 spotting scope, you know, you start adding some optimization features. It's going to start to increase the price. So, and most of those guys, or users, uh, are going to be running that on a tripod. So, we haven't really looked at that.

We will advance the, uh, the spotting scope line. But, uh, we've got a fairly solid, uh, foundation right now we're happy with. And we'll, we'll, we'll grow it. Um, we've got some whiteboard projects out there. So, we'll start seeing some stuff. And, you know, obviously we have, uh, some influence in the tactical world and the military side. So, we might be seeing some stuff that would, uh, advance towards, towards that kind of crossover use. That's cool. Well, you know, Jason, I've told you, I guess, a little bit of, about a couple of pieces of, uh, your optics that we've used in our own hunts and some of our guided hunts and whatnot. And I don't mean to make you pick one, but do you have a personal favorite piece of gear that you use? Whether it's your binos or your, or your range finder or maybe a combination that you use, uh, in your setup.

If you're, it's got a broad range of pill, maybe for our listeners to maybe really go put in their hands somewhere. And we'll get into that in a minute where to find your products. What do you, what do you really feel like you guys have maybe hit the home runs with it and you, for you personally and what, how you use your stuff? Okay. Well, uh, it probably depends on what hunt I'm going on, but, uh, I, I typically don't go on a hunt without my Zulu seven binoculars. Without a doubt. I might bring the nines with me and I'll bring my spotters, but I'm typically going to use those for my, for my all day field glasses. Um, and, and their tripod mount, all of our, our binoculars for the most part are tripod mountable too, if they need to be. But, but, so those are always a must for me. Um, if it's a backpack hunt and I'm not bringing my big spotter, uh, I'm going to throw in that Oscar three.

I mean, I may not get it out and use it necessarily, but it's, it's one pound. So I figured I can cut, cut a pound tomorrow. It's low, it's low weight, but my thing would be, you've got 15 power binos, you know, and if you're 10 to 20 power, it's just not that much difference. Yeah. It needs to be 30 power. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I get that if you've got a guy running with 15. Yeah. If you've got a guy running with 15, just with my setup on the Zulu seven, uh, they're 10 by 42. So I'm just having a little bit more to decide if I'm going to go after an animal or not, you know, in the back country is, it's just what I need, uh, just to get closer and, and, and then be able to, you know, size it up, so to speak. But, um, and then I think really the range finder, whether it's the 2200 MR or the 2400 is always with me.

I used the 2400 more this year just because, uh, that was newer and I no longer had to, you know, basically range and dial with a, with a SIG ballistic turret. But, um, I, I could put my, my gun ballistics, um, and manipulate the environmentals if I needed to for wind in, in the QL 2400 and, uh, be able to know that I was holding point of impact on the animal. Yeah. Uh, yeah, as you guys know, you guys ran the 2400 that be able to have your environmentals, your ballistics all in one, uh, piece of technology, and then allow you to incorporate that into how you made your adjustments for elevation of windage is an absolute grand slam. Um, you can store, I mean, if you're using multiple guns on a hunt or you're, or you're tied in a hunter or, or what have you, you can put their dope in it. So you'd be able to articulate to them where they need to hold. So it'll store up the four gun profiles.

That's a fantastic tool that piece of equipment. And I would absolutely recommend if you can't afford the 2400 or it doesn't make sense. Uh, even if you're an archer, I would definitely consider the QL 2200 MR, uh, just because of the price point and what you're getting for it. Uh, you can be much more happier with that. Uh, even if you don't need the super long range abilities, if you're woods archery hunter, uh, with a 1250 and 850. 850 and 1250 are great. I'm just saying, if you can afford the 2200, step up and do it. Um, and then on my hunting rifle setup, I would go, uh, whiskey five, three to 15 by 44 is perfect. Very hellfire quadplex. Uh, it's got level flex built in the best class that we can offer. Uh, super, super compact. Um, fairly lightweight, uh, for a 30 millimeter main tube. And, uh, that's, that's pretty much would be my go-to's. Good.

Um, so we've told you, we've told you a couple of our hunting experiences. Well, there is one I want to, I, um, and Chris reminded me of this, but we went in, uh, on the Escalante course, Adam and I, and I had an Escalante sheep tag. And, uh, literally. 10 years ago? 11? It's been a little. Yeah. Before, all this technology is really just cranked since 2007-ish. Remember, Adam? I mean, they were running like, uh, even trail cameras were on 35 millimeter film. With D and C batteries. Yeah. Yeah. D and Cs. And we were running to Walmart doing the one hour photo thing and 36 exposure. And I mean, it was. It was dumb. It was ridiculous. But, uh, uh, you know, and, and that wasn't that long ago. We're talking 05-ish or 06-ish. And range finders were, there's no angle compensation. And if you could get a good reading at, honestly, at 500, that was pretty dang good. You were doing good.

And now, some of our, um, long range rifles are limited to the range finder you have. Your rifle can do it. You can do it. But your range, you, you, sometimes, and, and antelope are always going to give you grief because you don't have it. It's so flat. Yeah, you can't tell. You can miss them by 100 or 200. But, but, um, I guess we, you know, we were going out on the Escalante and we were, I was shooting straight down on this ram. And in fact, a buddy of mine held onto my feet and, you know, because it was literal. Hanging off. Yeah. Hanging off the edge. Yeah. Hanging off the edge. I get it. Yeah. Wouldn't do it again. Uh, just kids. We were just kids. Dumb 30 year olds back then. Sure. So anyway, but, uh, uh, the ram did end up dying, but it took a minute, you know, and, uh, that's all he's going to say. Yeah. And it was angle compensated. That was the whole issue. That was it. Yeah.

Yeah. And, uh, and I don't know, even nowadays, if you were to angle range straight down, if it truly would give you the word, how to hold, because you'd have had to hold a foot under his brisket to, to, you know, hit him in the chest. And so anyway, and, and it may work some of, you know, but it was an extreme, extreme angle. And, uh, you were learning after each shot and you saw where it was missing. We were learning. We were going to start aiming. And you're adjusting. You're adjusting. And I might've shot myself if he had ran away. Cause I mean, it was a tough hunt. We're 20 miles with, you know, 70 and 80 pound packs to get in and even 90 pound packs. But anyway, and with 10 days of food and, and being prepared for cold, cold weather and warm weather. And it was at the end of September. But I guess, uh, I guess my point of it is now with these angle compensating range

finders and some of this gear and, and you got lifetime tags, once a lifetime type opportunities, you do want to step up your gear and it is nice. It, those, those features are much needed. It's one thing to, to angle range out of a tree stand at 25 yards or, or 30 or 40 yards. Like maybe some of the Eastern guys are doing with whitetails, but it's quite different. Four or 500 yards with severe angle, 60 degree plus in some cases. Some of that, like Adam sheep and Adam's dealt with it a lot. And so, you know, of course we're, we've learned a lot cause he's, he's taken a lot more sheep hunters and shooting extreme angles, fairly regular. Yeah. I will say this. There's many times when I scoot out on the edge of a cliff and I'm looking off when I'm, cause you, you have it in your mind, what you think it might be. And then you hit the range and I'm like, okay, we can kill this thing.

And I'm a little surprised and it's the angle, which is making up that difference. Yeah. You know, what would might be a hundred, 150 yards farther without the angle, with the angle compensation, the, you know, AMR technology, you guys stuff has, as you call it, it's, it's in the wheelhouse, you know? And, and what, what I say by that, I mean, if I can get it under 500 yards, that's still a long shot and it has to be no wind, has to have the right gun and all that. And yeah, good rifle and all that. Yeah. But, um, in some cases, like I described earlier, you have nothing but open air between you. You're on a cliff and they're in the Canyon and you know, there's no getting closer. And if everything is right and perfect and all that, and you can get a very accurate range, you're proned out and all that very ethical and all that changes everything.

It's a, makes some of these sheep go home with you in a backpack versus, um, all right, we're hunting another three to eight days. Yeah. So, and you know, and so it's just, it's just, uh, it, it's crazy, you know, how things have changed and, and some of that, I feel like I rely on this piece of equipment so much that if it fails me or the battery goes dead, I'm going to be screwed, you know? And so I've thought about that often is that 2400 is telling me, you know, um, MRADs on, you know, how to dial, where to dial. If it, if the range finder fails me and I don't have a cheat sheet on my stock for just kind of an average day out there at that particular elevation and temperatures, then I would be truly, um, you know, SOL so to speak. So, so anyway, I know you guys, uh, you know, built the best quality products, but I mean,

what's the chances of failure or, I mean, you, I mean, if I drop this thing 10 feet onto a brick, you know, floor or something, I mean, is it, you know what I mean? There's things like that that run through your mind because we become so, uh, relying on them. It's like, it's like walking away from the truck without a pair of 10s around your neck. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, we, uh, we do a lot of drop test standards on our, on our, on our products. So, um, obviously on the way it impacts might, you know, alter use one way or another, but, you know, we're pretty, pretty comfortable that our products going to hold up, hold up to, you know, your standard drops like that. Yeah. We've had a couple of guys lose some spotting scopes off a cliff and quite honestly, they were still functional. Um, you didn't break the glass. They still work.

I'd say I'd have a bunch of times, but, um, we've had a couple of guys, uh, one guy dropped, uh, dropped his, uh, range finder in a, in a, in a creek. One guy ran it to the washing machine. The great thing about it is, uh, we covered that on warranty. It's, it wasn't, you know, it was, it was their fault, but we call it a no fault. So we, uh, we replaced it at no cost to them. He was probably just trying to wash the lenses. So yeah. Yeah. So I mean, well, we had a guy run over his kilo 1200 and we replaced it. So things are going to happen with that guys run their scopes over, you know, leave the old rifle back of the truck, kind of got in a hurry, forgot about it. Yeah. We've had guys do that. We replaced them. But, you know, for the most part, uh, we're pretty confident based on our testing standards,

uh, and what we've done with our products that they're going to hold up, um, for durability, repeatability and accuracy. Um, now we've had, we've had some guys that have got out on the hunt. Um, and, and they're memorable to me because, you know, at the time they weren't real happy about it and they made a drove three or four hours to get self-service or get ahold of us. But yeah, we've had a couple of wins in those cases and we arranged to overnight, uh, a replacement tool, um, and held them up for half day on their hunt because they had to, you know, stay in an area where they could, you know, accept that, accept that shipment. But we seem to, uh, you know, we're, we're mostly outdoors people here. Yeah. Cash and all the sport. You know, like you said, I've been in those same situations where they had a battery go out. Yeah.

You know, I'm rummaging through my pack to find another rangefinder battery. Yeah. I carry, I carry two extra. Yeah. I just want. Just make them, just make them use double A's. We all use double A's for flashlights. That's right. Just make them use double A's. Instead of them CRT's. Yeah. It's probably your best. You can add some weight, boy. You can add some weight, boy. We're not even going to charge you for that tip. Just make them use double A's and you're going to sell twice the volume. So, all right. So just to wrap it up and we appreciate your time, but just, is there anything you want to share with us? A hunting experience or, or anything that we missed that you were hoping we'd talk about or, or just as a, as a wrap? No, you know, I mean, I, yeah, I enjoy hunting. My, my favorite hunts are probably going back in the Frank church with my, with my father-in-law on, on elk hunts.

You know, we've horse backed in, hiked in, you know, 10 miles before and packed out bulls and it was all great. But you know what? Honestly, it's like doing what we do over here at SIG optics. It's just sitting down, having a loud conversation with you guys, hearing your stories. Yeah. It's what makes us feel like, Hey, we are, we are making that change in this optics industry. You know, you guys sharing your story about the sheep hunt, but the, being able to confident, being confident that you could take that shot and track, we know where you're hitting and, you know, with the angle modification range or whether you're using the ballistic app. That's, that's why we're in this industry. That's why we all want to make sure that we are improving, whether it's hunting experiences, ethical shots, making memories out in the field. I mean, that's what it's all about. Yeah.

You know, the, the hunting industry, so to speak, we all kind of have to, we're up against a lot of, you know, conservation nemesis and, you know, anti-hunting groups. So we all kind of got to stick together. So if there's a way for us to have common ground and use, use, whether it's a manufacturer like Tick Sauer or some of our other competitors that are doing some good things, if we all can kind of keep coming together and produce a good product that allow for us to, you know, continue to grow the heritage of hunting. Well, and I think there's, there's multiple, yeah. And there's multiple angle, you know, range finding systems out there and they, and they, they work. We, we've used them and, and we've liked them and stuff. But just what sets you apart, in my opinion, for that particular thing is, is the speed and, and obviously they're accurate.

And I was shocked when I put it through my window and I was just like, all right, they're onto something. And so I would just say, keep working, keep doing that, make better stuff, would you? Keep putting up good stuff and we'll use it. That's, that's a lot of mine. Well, we're, yeah, we don't have any, you know, we started, we started the product line, I think when we originally launched in, you know, the end of the 2015 season, we launched with approximately 50 items. I'd say 50 SKUs, if I remember correctly. And then, you know, we're up to darn near 200. And we have some, we've, we've had a couple of products that we've moved out of the product line, but with a solid foundation, that 50, we're all, we're all, we're all, we're all already up to 200 plus SKUs. So we are going to keep moving product, whether it's rifle scopes, binoculars, range finders,

you know, we didn't even get into our whole red dots. Well, let's do that. Maybe, maybe down the road, we'll, we'll dive into some of that. Yeah, no, we could because it's becoming a lot more prevalent, whether it's for muzzle loaders or crossbows or shotgun hunting or, you know, just enthusiasts that are out shooting and competing with, with red dots, but, or even a predator hunting, excuse me, but, uh, threat that's threat to include them. But, uh, red dots are becoming, you know, part of our, you know, our huge success. So down the road, it's, we, you know, you guys expand, so I don't want to expand more in its dialogue. We talk more about the product line, but, you know, we have thermal, thermal technology. We've got pistol sights. We've got, uh, flash weapon flashlights, so to speak, uh, anything rail mounted.

Uh, the red dots have been a huge success to go along with our, our, our, our rangefinders have been a home run. I mean, us launching at the time, the Kilo 2000 really, really put us on the optics map. And with that foundation of some of our red dots and that rangefinder, I mean, that's why we're having this, this, uh, conversation today. It's been absolutely fantastic and fun to, fun to be on the, uh, journey. For our listeners and whatnot, uh, or anybody, uh, that asked us or wanted to know more about your optics or put their hands on them, I guess. What are, what are some of the best ways, some of your, maybe your bigger dealers, obviously going to be some small ones out there, but where's some of the bigger dealers or places they can get their hands and look through and fondle your optics and stuff? Yeah.

Uh, just in general, I would, uh, recommend, um, to go online and, uh, go to, you know, six hour.com and there's a dealer locator on there. It's by zip code proximity. So that's always a good way to go. I know there's probably people out there that like to support local or, um, maybe some of the, the mom pop, the brick and mortar shops. So you can take a look at there, uh, see if there's a local, um, dealer there, not all them carry the full line or may not carry optics, but it's just worth a phone call or, you know, inquiring. But, and then after that, you know, obviously the big players, big boxers, you get Cabela's Sports' Warehouse, uh, Shields, um, uh, Big R, just, just your more common, um, large retailers. Yeah. Um, and then a heavy online, then a heavy online, uh, presence too. Um, Brownells, Midway, um, I know I'm, yeah, uh, Optics Planet, Euro Optics.

Do you take emails yourself or is it something where they'd go through customer service? Somebody just had specifics. We take a ton of emails. Sometimes it's, uh, sometimes it's, it's nice to be connected, but then, but then, uh, you don't get anything done with all this new technology. So what do you got to come in? Craig at six hour.com or what? You know, people are more welcome to reach out to me if they need to have an inquiry. I mean, I might not be the one that answers it directly or it's one of my team members or, you know, I, I do, I do handle a fair amount of, uh, warranties directly just because I've been connected and people want to assure that, you know, I'm on top of it because sometimes it could get mixed in with the general masses of, of, of, well, they might want to, we do have a jury that comes back.

They might want a few wolf hunting tips there in the Frank church, you know? Yeah. Who knows? Yeah, they're in there. We're, uh, we're, uh, we get in on them. Uh, they, they, they looted us this year, but the previous two, we, uh, guys in our camp or, you know, a chance, uh, we put some wolves on the ground. So that's always helpful to the, uh, to the herds up there. How's the, how's the best way to get ahold of you? Uh, probably the best way is to drop me an email. Craig. By for P F I or P H. No, excuse me. P P P. Yeah. Silent F P F E I F E R at six hour.com. Okay. Uh, my landline is might be a way to three message, but I'm not in the office, but, uh, six Oh three six one zero three, eight, seven nine. Okay. And then, uh, and then for the, uh, we do have, uh, we do have a pro program out there. We don't market it tremendously right now just because of, uh, our systems don't allow us

to automate orders, so to speak. We're still trying to get, get to where we can utilize our web store. Like most of our, uh, industry partners do these days for, for pro deals, you know, but we're, we're not quite there. So we do have to mainly process a lot of these orders. So we haven't been huge on offering it, but it is out there, but we do have a pro program. Uh, and if the user qualifies, uh, we'll set them up on a pro program, uh, to allow to, to get, uh, discounts on product. Everybody's a pro, Greg. You're going to have to really take, put them through the ringer because we're all pros. Yeah. Yeah. You know, well, that program is built around license, license guide and outfitters. Um, okay. Makes sense. Guys that are on a bonafide, uh, competitive shooting, um, whether it's TRS or any other division that's nationally recognized or, or an industry partner.

Um, not the Iron County Trap Club Association. No, no, probably not. Probably not too, but, uh, but, uh, but, uh, but Epic, uh, Epic Outdoor guys are obviously qualified in any other industry partners. So, um, we're going to need to, we're going to need to test out some of these optics. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, the, uh, the T and E stuff is always available for, for you guys. But, uh, anyways, uh, to get to that, the other, the other email that you guys could, that they could reach out to is SIG Optics Pro. Okay. And it's just all one word, SIG Optics Pro at SIGsHour.com. Okay. Alrighty. And that, uh, that allows us to funnel those emails, uh, into, uh, that inbox. Wow. Okay. All right, Craig. Well, I want to, I want to tell you how much we've appreciated you spending some time with Adam and I here at Epic, um, and, uh, and appreciate that.

We just, uh, you know, just wanted to see what you guys were doing and what you're all about and, uh, brace ourselves for what's coming. You guys are obviously, you know, I don't know, setting the pace in some aspects of the hunting world. And, and, uh, we're definitely watching and, uh, yeah. I wouldn't mind being part of that too at some point down the road. Absolutely. Absolutely. So anyway. Absolutely. Absolutely. Appreciate you guys afford this opportunity to come on and, and have the confidence, uh, in the product line and, uh, in the brand, uh, to speak of it with your users. And, uh, you know, we're excited about where we're going. We're not going away anytime. Anytime soon. No, it's not cheap. It's not cheap to do all that R and D and, uh, go overseas and all these technologies. And, and I can't imagine the, the kind of money you guys have sunk into that.

And so, uh, anyway, it's awesome. It's, it's fun to see it. It's fun to watch you guys grow and, and, uh, anything we can do to help you let us know and we'll, we'll go from there. Absolutely. Thanks, Craig. Appreciate it. Great.

You bet. Thanks guys. All right. Thanks, Craig. Talk to you later. Here at Epic Outdoors, we publish a Western hunting publication nine months a year. The, uh, the Epic membership includes nine issues of the magazine where the first six months of the year are totally geared to breaking down all the Western states draws, their application process, their deadlines, units, kill rates, uh, drawing odds. Everything that we feel is very important for you to make a calculated decision on whether you apply for that state or not and how you want to apply for trophy, for more opportunity hunts, but, but do it from a current year perspective. We also have, um, you know, a bunch of different articles in there from biologists from the states, hunter next door articles. Uh, what else, Jason? Yeah. The a hundred dollar subscription, you know, includes, uh, consulting.

So we deal with our clients on a regular basis over the phone, help them develop their hunting plans and, uh, any, anything to do with Western big game. Once guys draw tags, they can call in. We'll put them on a list, give you a list of members who've hunted in the past or help you find outfitters. And so, and, and we've got a, you know, a lot of experience across the West and it might be that you draw a unit that we've got experience in. We have no problems helping you. So anyway, this is just a very interactive service, a hundred bucks a year, try to be all inclusive on Western big game. And, and of course on it, from a trophy perspective, you know, we, we all like the big stuff. And, uh, and so we really try to, you know, capitalize on, on the changes that are happening and some of the different great opportunities out there. Yep.

So if you're interested, you can find us on the web at epicoutdoors.com or call us at 435-263-0777. So if you're interested to hear that you're interested to hear that you're interested to hear that you're