EP 60: Hunting Giant Mule Deer With Mike Duplan, Jason Carter, and Adam Bronson. In this episode of the Epic Outdoors Podcast we talk with long time Mule Deer enthusiast and author, Mike Duplan. Mike calls Colorado home and has spent his life in pursuit of giant bucks. Mike is extremely knowledgable on hunting Colorado. If you want to get started in Colorado, or just love mule Deer in general, this episode holds a lot of great information to learn from.

Disclaimer: this podcast has been transcribed from the original audio and likely contains errors. This transcription does not reflect the views and opinions of Epic Outdoors LLC. Please consult the original audio with any concerns.

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Most of Colorado can produce a 200 inch deer. Every unit’s got some big, big gear in it.

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Unbelievable deer.

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Where do I do it? How do I use my points? On and on

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Anything to do with Western big games.

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Adam Bronson here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast. We just wanna let everybody know we’ve got a lot of listeners out there that aren’t a member of our service. We, we produce nine magazines a year. It’s monthly December through June. Talk about all the Western states, drawing on skill percentages, best units and, and break it down for applying across the west. We’re also available to visit. We, we help guys develop short-term, midterm, long-term hunt strategies, application strategies, as well as helping you buy landowner tags, hunts, and all kinds of different things that deal with Western big game hunting. So anyway, lot of podcast information out there. Of course, that’s free and fun to listen to while you’re traveling. But if you want the detailed information, join Epic Outdoors on epic outdoors.com. It’s a hundred dollars a year, and we get to visit about hunting. This is the time of year when we’re not actually out in the field much. We are in the office 24 7, it feels like, and just cranking it out with different magazine and visiting with guys over the phone and, and talking, hunting and getting prepared for the fall.

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If you need another reason to join right now, through the end of February, if you join, we’re giving away your choice, a, a doll sheep hunt to be entered into the, to win a doll sheep hunt or a mule deer hunt with us, the epic crew or an elk hunt here in Utah with the Epic crew. For anybody that joins up until, until February 28th, you’re entered in that. Or if you refer somebody, if you’re already a member and you refer somebody that joins, make sure that you, you let ’em know, to tell ’em that you join them. You’ll have another name in the hat for that. There’s no limit to the amount of times you can be entered or the manner, or guys you can refer. But there is no way to buy tickets for this. So join in a membership or referring somebody that does the only way to get in. So epic outdoors.com. You can join online or give us a call at (435) 263-0777.

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Anyway, got an awesome guest, A guy that we’ve been chasing around trying to fi trying to corner get him on the podcast here, Colorado resident, and a guy that’s killed tons and tons of big deer as well as sheep and everything else that moves. And so, anyway, super excited to get into this. Before we do, we wanna thank Under Armour for sponsoring these podcasts and, and the support they give us here at Epic Outdoors in a lot of different ways. So anyway, you can find them in our magazine that comes out each month this time of year, you know, as well as other forms of media. We, we do have the YouTube channel and all that, and they support us there as well. So, anyway, appreciate them for that, and we’ll go from there. Let’s see. Mike, we got Mike do plan. Mike, you on.

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Good morning, gentlemen.

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How are you?

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Doing well, thank you.

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Good, Mike, just for, just kind of set the tone here, Mike’s one of those guys. He’s a, he’s a diehard, he’s a guy that anybody knows anything about Mule Deer, they know Mike’s name and they’ve probably followed some of the bucks he’s killed and, and a, he’s a photographer as well and takes a lot of amazing photos and whatnot. Just lives for the outdoors. But without totally spoiling mic, maybe just give us a little background and kind of what got you started, and then we can kind of dive into, you know, what you love to do and, and some of your favorite animals to hunt. So,

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Sounds good. Well, right now I’m at the tail end of my career as a paramedic firefighter down in the west side of the Denver metro area for West Metro Fire Protection District. And I’ve got 26 years on as of about a week and a half. And, and I figure I got three to four more to go at least. But, so that’s kind of coming to an end. And my wife and I just closed on a house for retirement down in Ridgeway, Colorado. Really looking forward to being moving in the shadow of San Juan. Yeah.

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You gonna move west closer to

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This? Yeah, west and south a little bit. The place I live now, just north of Silverthorne, is right on the edge of what’s called Middle Park. And it’s a long, long winter. This is, you know, arguably one of the longest winters in the lower 48 for being in the bottom of a valley. And we quite often, we had our largest single day snow storm that I’ve ever seen last year, in the first week of May. Wow. So the most accumulation I’ve seen since I’ve been up here, oh, 99 I think I moved up here and, and that last, this last May was the biggest single day snow I’ve seen. So that, that tells you what kind of winters we could

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Have long, how deep, how deep did it get?

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Oh, you know, it, it did 26 inches and less than 24 hours here at the house, and that’s in the bottom of the valley in the winter range. And you know, that time of year the ground’s thawed out and, you know, the temperatures warm up, so it really doesn’t affect the animals at all. Yeah, yeah. So that’s crazy. But I’ve got two grown daughters and my wife Shelly and I just built a new house about a year and a half ago. So it’s, you know, as far as selling what we just did and the idea of moving on, that was kind of a, a thing we had to wrap our minds around a little bit. But, you know, there’s a plan for the future and we’re excited about that. So is that we’re gonna miss this area though,

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Is that just with the retirement program, just kind saying, okay, where we can live anywhere we wanna live once this happens. And so where do we wanna live? Is that what you’re thinking? Well,

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Yeah, the, the, yeah. You know, I wanna be in an area that, you know, just does it for me. And then for me, the, the San Juans have always been the most intriguing and fascinating and place in the entire state of Colorado. It’s, you know, far enough from the Denver metro area where it doesn’t get weakened visitors. And so you’ve got that and it’s just the largest roadless, contiguous roadless in the lower 40 outs outside of, I believe, the greater Yellowstone ecosystem in the Bob Marshall. So, wow. It’s, it’s really intriguing to, to be down there and, you know, the Rams and Bucks and bulls that live down there and, you know, who knows what the future holds. But I’m excited to be going, heading down that country. That’s

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Well, yeah, you’re moving western slope, lot less people. That’s what I hear out of that. And I’m sure that’s

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Yeah, the elevation’s 7,000 feet. Yeah. As opposed to, I’m at 8,600 in the bottom of the valley here, so it’s a, geez, we’re gonna have an extra month of summer and spring to,

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Might be able to grow a garden from there.

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Yeah, you might be able to grow a garden. That’s right.

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Chickens in a, chickens in a garden.

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Chickens in a garden. Sounds organic. So what about, tell us about, I guess, growing up, Mike, and are you lifelong from Colorado and where are you from? You’ve got,

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I’ve got a little bit of an interesting story. I was born in Minnesota. I got hauled to Arizona when I was a little kid, and my mom ended up moving us, my sister and I out to California. And I spent most of my formative years as a, a young guy out in California and Wow. First in the LA area, then we moved up to Tepi in high school. And so that’s where I got into hunting was Hitachi in my freshman year in high school. I’d never hunted before and I just happened to be in the, you know, the picture line where they take your school pictures next to the guy that’s still my best friend to this day. And we met that morning in the picture line and he’s the one that got me into hunting and, and it’s all uphill from there. So, wow. I moved to Colorado in my 22nd year, just like the John Denver song, and,

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It’s been, it’s been wonderful. I’ve, I’ve really, this is, this is home for me. This is where my heart is. It was where it always was. I remember when I was a little kid, we lived in Arizona. My mom had a friend that lived in Durango and my mom took me camping on Mineral Creek just right outta Silverton, Colorado. And a few people are gonna know where that’s at, but I just remember it was, I, I still remember it being five years old and being at that spot and just being in awe of it. And so it’s been something that has always been in me, even though I didn’t start hunting and I didn’t have a, so to say, a family mentor at all. It was my buddy Mike that really showed me the ropes and got me going on it. So

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Outta California,

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Outta California, guy outta

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California went from skating to surfboards

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To rifles. I

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Was, I was a skateboard and fiend as a little kid.

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Lemme tell you,

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I could still ride a skateboard.

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You cannot really

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Six, seven old

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I seven guy on a skateboard. Yeah.

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It’s not what you see every day. Big guy like you,

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Four wheeler tires on that skateboard or something, huh?

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I’m smart enough to not get on one though.

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Yeah. Geez. Holy cow. And so when did you make the move? Like, just paint the picture of like the year roughly? When did you make the move? How old were you?

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1988, moved, moved here in, in 1988. And

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Was that about the time you my butt started with a fire or paramedic? I don’t know how old you’re at that point. No,

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No, that was before that. I was working construction after I got outta high school. I wanted, I had this idea in my mind I was gonna be a pilot and in the Air force and, and had it all set to go and, and nobody bothered to tell me that being six

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Seven, you can’t be a pilot. Yeah. You’re you’re

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Gonna have to build a plane around you.

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You’re the guy that, that, that loads the plane with cargo and stuff, but you can’t fly.

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Well, literally, literally I was, you know, I’m a 21 year old man, my dreams were just absolutely crushed. And I was like, oh, I gotta figure something else out. So yeah, I, I think I came out to Colorado, you know, my 21st year three times on vacation. And so for a guy with limited income and construction and being able to come out that many times, that just shows you where my heart

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Was. You liked it. Yeah. Yeah,

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I did. Yeah. So yeah, I went to skanking around the UNC Compadre plateau back then and looking for all the ghosts that Kurt Darner told us about that weren’t there anymore.

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Oh no.

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So let’s see, the Mueller passion started right off the bat, and Kurt Darner was a part of that.

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Yeah, yeah. You know, he was a part of everybody at that generation

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Book. Yeah. He was,

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Yeah. I’m sure you guys remember the Remington ad with that cabin in the mountains and all those big deer hanging on that cabin and Yeah. And you know, you, we can all Kurt Ner could be a podcast in and of itself, so that’s beside the point. Hey, I’m thinking bottom line was just seeing that kind of stuff inspired me. Yeah.

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And I might have him on at some point if he had ever do it. He’s, you know, I mean, he did love mule deer. There’s no question. These guys that get Yeah. Wrapped up in it and kinda let it get the best of them a little bit, it doesn’t mean he didn’t know how to hunt deer. Doesn’t mean he didn’t love it.

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No. Joe Rogan had a Lance Armstrong on podcast and, you know, it’s like all

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Still knows how to run back,

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Whatever that that’s, that’s a, yeah. He, he’ll be judged on his own at some point in his life. And that’s, yeah, we’ll leave that one alone. But yeah, you, everybody’s got an interesting story to tell for the

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Most part. So, and so right off the bat, were you finding big deer? I mean, okay, so let’s just cut. Yeah. Your

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Buddy Mike did stay in California and so did, when you came out, did you have any, any buddies then? Did guys you started working with that said, Hey, come hunting with me. How did it first go? No,

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It was, you know, I, I basically learned in the school of hard knocks and, and you know, there, you know how it is when you’re a young guy, you can, you can really put the boots to it and, and hammer the mountains. And you know, back then the loophole Wind rivers were the top dog of optics. Oh, I

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Remember those. I

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Remember the sti the Steiners had just come out and people were, you know, that those were starting to get some press. But yeah, those loophole Wind Rivers and, you know, late eighties, early nineties and yeah. You know, still cotton clothing and occasional wool shirt, but it was a, it was a different game then. And so Well,

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And I remember having those,

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I wish I would’ve,

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I remember having those, those redfield 10 by fifties. I thought they were the cat a I mean, I thought they were amazing. Yeah,

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Yeah. And you know, it was one of those things that if you knew then what you know now, things would’ve been different. Oh

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Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, and yeah, I don’t know, what was your deer hunting like in parts of Colorado and obviously, well, my

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Deer hunting really was just, like I said, putting the boots to it, hitting, hitting cart country and going hard and, and I focused too much on what I thought was good deer country, but it’s basically winter range back then. Yeah. And, you know, I really hit the pinyon Juniper country hard and, you know, I was finding sheds, big sheds, old dinosaur things, chalky red, big pink things laying out there. And Yeah. And I thought for sure there’s gotta be some deer here, but they’re, you know, they weren’t those high mountain valleys hunting season, those deer are up higher, so. Yeah. Well, it took me a little while to figure out that out and things started clicking and, and I started killing big bucks. So,

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Yeah, I was gonna say, did you always, I guess was, was a mule deer, I mean, you went to Colorado, they got elk everywhere, but you Yeah. You gravitated to mule deer for any specific reason or just captivated you.

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It was by necessity. The, the elk hunting was really poor back in the late eighties and early nineties. I mean, I killed one rag Horn Bull back then, and, you know, you occasionally guys would come out with a little six point, like a two or three year old bull and Yeah. About like Utah’s elk hunting was before all the limited entry units were established. And, you know, that was tough elk hunting back then. And so, you know, I mule deer really were it for me. And I, I hadn’t drawn a sheep tag or anything else at that point. So I applied for my first sheep tag the first year I could really afford it. And that was the year I got hired on the fire department in 92. So Wow. I still remember being on the ambulance and driving down on the last day it was to submit my application and, you know, you had to write a check out. And of course, my ex at that time was wondering what in the world we were putting in for a sheep tag for 150 bucks or whatever it is with our living income. But I waited until the last day and that, that was my first sheep application was in 92. So Wow.

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Cow. Took me until 2000 to draw that. But in the meantime I was, you know, I, I killed a few bucks just outta, you know, hard work and some luck, and then I started figuring some stuff out and putting stuff together. And

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Tell us about the season structure back then. Of course, the tags, you know, a lot of ’em were over the counter and, and whatnot. But tell us a little bit about deer tags and season structure back then in those days.

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Well, late nineties, there was a, you know, a group that got together in Colorado and basically a bunch of sportsmen were calling out the state on their management of mule deer. And people were tired of, of what was going on and, and, you know, really wanting to change the way mule deer were managing the state and wanted a more of a quality approach instead of the unlimited. So, you know, the first step was establishing, you know, it wasn’t statewide deer licenses anymore, and then the seasons got restricted a little bit and you had to pick one season and stick to it. And, and so there was an evolution in place there, but, you know, it worked and it worked right away and right about 2000, you know, it was a few years into this season structure implementation. All of a sudden guys start killing big gear while they’re, they’re hitting four or five years old.

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There’s a few of those bucks that finally were making it through. Yeah. As opposed to, you know, 90% of the age costs getting wiped out every year, which, you know, as you know, for a deer to reach seven if you know that many of ’em are getting killed every year, it’s just, it’s just almost impossible. Yeah. So about that time, you know, big bucks are starting to appear and get killed. And I remember when I, in 2000 when I killed my big wide three point buck with some extra points on it, that that was one of the better deer killed in the state that year. And it, and it just seemed like 2000, it took off from there.

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Well, and that’s the thing, I think anytime you, you managed and you get some kind of a, some kind of a, a limited harvest to a degree. I mean, prior to, you know, in the early nineties, it just felt like there was unlimited fire. Yeah. There’s no fire attack. And what was the seasons? What were the seasons like early nineties? Was it it was unlimited and still having these gut seasons,

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An elk season, a deer season, then a combined season, most of the residents, you know, went towards the combined season, which was about the same dates as their current third season. Okay. So that was, you know, how it was basically broken down, but, you know, so it was only, you know, three seasons at that point and, and muzzle loading really hadn’t taken off. Archery was almost unheard of at that point. And you know, now we’ve got six seasons and, you know, there’s more than more people that want it than, than there is deer out there to be had. So Yeah.

00:16:33:15 –> 00:16:57:01
And that’s the way we were here in Utah as well, is we could basically, we had our general and you could hunt, you know, muzzle or deer in the rutt and in November, and that’s just till the early nineties Yeah. With your general tax. Yeah. And we killed some phenomenal bucks all along the pons gone on the general side, and you know, you just, that’s not how you manage deer. You don’t let unlimited herds of people hunt during the rutt or pre rutt, you know, right

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Now they’re just way too vulnerable. In fact, the winter of, or the, in the season of 2002, I don’t know if you guys remember, we had a storm hit the Colorado Central Rockies in the, in right the day before the third season opened. And for the third season opened there, there was two feet of snow in the winter range and more up higher. And the deer just piled into the sagebrush country. And I remember from Middle Park and Eagle County alone, there was over 25 deer that me and some other friends knew of that were over 200 growth Yeah. Taken in that third season. Wow. Wow. And so that just goes to show you what, you know, a little bit of management and then one storm is just, it was just crazy. So I shot a deer on the opening morning and I wish I would’ve held out, but, you know, hindsight 2020, you know? Yeah,

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Yeah. I think my

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First year, if I remember right, well, I went, when was in high school hunting rag bull rag horn bulls and that in the late nineties or early nineties. And then first time back was 2004, and we had one of those snow years too, Utah got it. Right. The end of October, Colorado. Got it on third season, 2004 was another one of those big early snow storms. And that was my, my first year. And it was like, this is incredible. It was unbelievable. It was, this is amazing. What have I been missing on a, on a leftover tag I picked up in August, you know what I mean? And so killed the 200 inch and thought this is, this is where I’m gonna hunt the rest of my life. That

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Was Was that your first 200 Adam? Yeah, it was first 200 inch. Yeah. And I remember, you know, even my dad was headed to Gunnison and, you know, kind of had a friend over there and kind of show him the ropes and I mean, he, you know, just driving around just with his jaw on the

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Floorboard winter, just box

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Everywhere, he was unbelievable.

00:18:42:13 –> 00:18:46:11
Yeah. And I haven’t seen it like that since, I will admit I was, I was back on this.

00:18:46:11 –> 00:18:47:10
No, it came to a screeching out.

00:18:47:10 –> 00:18:48:20
Yeah. And the next year I was,

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Was, well, global

00:18:49:14 –> 00:18:51:26
Warming. Yeah, that’s right. You know, I was on the Yeah,

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That and the, the winter of 2007, 2008. Yeah.

00:18:54:16 –> 00:18:54:22

00:18:55:24 –> 00:18:56:05

00:18:56:14 –> 00:19:44:08
The harvest had just started to tail off a little bit in oh six. Anyways, the, I believe it peaked in, you know, as far as Boone and Crockett entries, it, it peaked in, in 2005. I can’t remember exactly. I wrote an article back in for Western Hunter back in 2009, like the year after that. And, you know, talked about that winter and, and what it did. And, and it was absolutely devastating for, you know, some of the, the high mountain herds that winter, you know, the Gunnison Basin just got absolutely annihilated and Eagle County and Middle Park and, you know, that’s the core of your, your best big buck. You know, those high mountain valleys with the big sagebrush basins, that’s where the deer do so well in the winter, and it seems cold, but it, it’s all the feed they need and, and it’s got the magic formula for, you know, just enough stuff in the summer and just enough in the winter, and they get big.

00:19:44:09 –> 00:20:30:12
And, and so it just hammered those valleys and Yeah. I remember go coming through Gunnison Basin in that, that year. It was January right after 2008 had just come around and, and it was like the arctic it literally, the, the sagebrush was covered, it was stark white as far as you can see. It looked like you’d gone north of the tree line in the Arctic and it was just snow rolling snow and the deer were stacked up on the highway. There’s a few cliffs there on the north side of Blue Mesa Reservoir where the deer kind of tried to tuck up underneath the, the cliffs and eat oak rush that was sticking above the snow, but Sure. But it was brutal on ’em. And, you know, the, the Colorado Parks and Wildlife, formerly known as the Divisional Wildlife, they made some choices then, and they said, we’re not gonna stockpile bucks anymore.

00:20:30:29 –> 00:21:00:28
And so the idea of those kind of numbers being in the Gunnison Basin, it really hasn’t been Yeah. A management objective since. And, you know, you know, that’s, that’s up for a debate on what, what is the best approach. But you know, to me, the intrinsic value of knowing there’s really big bucks out there, you know, even if you’re not gonna kill ’em, you just gotta know they’re out there. That’s, that’s what keeps us all going, so, oh, yeah. You know, it, I feel like animals should be managed, that there is those kind of animals in the herd, even if you can’t get ’em. So, yeah.

00:21:01:14 –> 00:21:28:23
Yep. It’s unbelievable. Some of the country that we, you know, that we’ve experienced in some of the years right in there that mid two thousands you couldn’t do anything wrong. And I think that’s what’s going on now at times is, you know, if you get, if you get the right snowstorm and, and you get the right weather patterns and, you know, and everybody talks about weather and weather and weather and, and it’s a hundred percent true in Colorado, if you get the right weather pattern, you can’t, you could be on the second choice, third choice unit, bottom of the barrel.

00:21:28:29 –> 00:21:30:06
You could have an awesome hunt,

00:21:30:13 –> 00:21:43:07
An amazing hunt, and then, and then we have these warm years, like we have this past couple years. You could be in 44 or 21 or anything that people think is phenomenal and hard pressed to find 180 inch deer. You know,

00:21:43:11 –> 00:21:45:02
Good luck. Good luck. That’s

00:21:45:02 –> 00:21:45:13
All I can say.

00:21:45:13 –> 00:22:03:19
Exactly. You know, that’s, when you talk about those things, people stack their preference points for years, just thinking, well, I’m gonna have a whole pile of points and I’m gonna draw 44 and I’m gonna go in there and kill a 200 inch deer. Yeah. It’s like, you are sadly mistaken. It’s, I’m not trying to poo poo that enthusiasm, but it’s, that is not realistic at all.

00:22:03:25 –> 00:22:14:10
Well, and that’s why we tell people burn ’em every three or four years. Every two years. Yep. Every one year. I mean, go go all the time. So when the weather does hit, like you’re, you know, you’re just, you in

00:22:14:10 –> 00:22:25:02
Yeah. Instead of once every 15 years. And you have to be, have the stars aligned if you go through your four or five times in 15 years, odds of line two or three times or a lot better than once.

00:22:25:02 –> 00:22:38:24
Yeah. That, that’s exactly right. That, you know, the, the time you spend out there, you know, actually increases the dumb luck factor. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you, you may not be the greatest hunter around or may not have the best skills, but if you’re out there all the time, sooner or later you’re gonna run into stuff,

00:22:38:24 –> 00:22:42:02
It’s gonna happen. Oh, and you need to be out there all the time. Yep. You know,

00:22:42:09 –> 00:22:47:12
If you’re gonna hold out for one tag in 20 years, you’re, you might be s o l on that one year, you draw that tag

00:22:47:17 –> 00:22:52:02
And you might, and I would say it’s better than 50 50. You’re gonna be o l Yeah. It’s probably gonna be seven. Oh, yeah. You know.

00:22:52:03 –> 00:23:01:14
Well, and now they’ve changed the regulation over there where you can’t turn, you can’t wait till the day before the season. Oh, it’s gonna be an awesome year. I’m keeping it or turn it back. You got 30 days now, so you’re really,

00:23:01:24 –> 00:23:03:14
Yeah, you can turn it back, but it’s, but

00:23:03:14 –> 00:23:05:05
30 days before, you don’t know what,

00:23:05:13 –> 00:23:05:25

00:23:06:05 –> 00:23:27:02
That’s that, that’s kind of a funny story that, that came from a, a massive amount of public outcry from two guys that had drawn non-resident 44 tags and a few years back, and then they turned them in right before the season because they didn’t like the we the way the weather was setting up. And so, yeah. You know, really that w didn’t go unnoticed and that was the impetus for the change. Yeah. So.

00:23:27:12 –> 00:23:40:13
Well, and it definitely has changed and you know, I know Jason and I talked to a lot of guys in Colorado throughout the year of our consulting here and Colorado deer, wouldn’t you say Jason is probably, I don’t know what we filled more calls on. Oh, that’s

00:23:40:17 –> 00:23:41:28
Between that and Wyoming Elk.

00:23:42:01 –> 00:24:02:18
Yeah, it’s probably two of the things like that. Yeah. That people were, where do I do it? How do I use my points on and on? And really it’s a new normal right now. I would, I would say in Colorado, a new normal, those, you gotta view it through 2017 18 glasses and forget to some extent that 2002 to 2007. Well,

00:24:02:18 –> 00:24:25:11
And we’re all kind of, you know, cautiously optimistic that the light, the light, the bad weather, let’s say good weather, the nice weather, you know, pattern in the last couple years has helped, you know, save a few bucks. And when we do end up with a weather pattern, it’s just phenomenal again. But, you know, it’s definitely moderated the, the don’t you feel like that Mike, like seem just moderation, like not not just phenomenal choices.

00:24:25:19 –> 00:24:27:04
No one’s super top heavy with big

00:24:27:04 –> 00:24:27:22
Bucks right now.

00:24:27:22 –> 00:25:09:26
Yeah, no, you, you look at the Boone and Crockett entries for Colorado for deer and there’s no, you know, it, it’s a really interesting graph to look at. If you, if you took it from like say 99 to now, so almost 20 years, you know, it just totally spiked during the early two thousands and, and absolutely dropped off for the next few years after that. Yeah. And then it’s, you know, there’s no nothing right now that’s showing a, a pattern of a hot area coming on. No. There’s just, you know, scattered entries from all over the state, which, you know, that’s good. That means I firmly believe that just about every unit in the western slope of Colorado, well, most of Colorado can produce a 200 inch deer. There’s Yeah. And they’re in there, you know, it’s, you know, the, every unit’s got some big, big deer in it.

00:25:09:27 –> 00:26:01:00
Well, what I find they might, yeah. And what I find interesting is back in the nineties, so I had all these points, I had a load of points built up, and if you, you and you remember, and you know, but that pin canyon army base, you know, 1 42 was like the most talked about best draw, whatever, because everything else is over the counter, you know, and so that’s kind of what you saved up for. And I hunted it right in that drought year of 96. And, and I did see one big deer, but of course I didn’t, I ate my tag and, and didn’t kill anything. And, and it was before, arguably it was before I really knew how to kill big deer. And, you know, could’ve done, I would’ve done that tag a lot more justice had I had it today. But, but it’s just crazy how times have changed. I don’t even know, I don’t field one phone call a year on Pinon Canyon Army base on one forty two. Yeah. Not one phone call.

00:26:01:00 –> 00:26:13:10
Ironically, there was a huge buck killed in there this year in the season. It was, you know, a two 30 something buck and it looked like only a four and a half year old, maybe a five and a half year old in the photo. But, you know, that’s funny that you even bring that up at this point.

00:26:13:24 –> 00:26:40:26
Well, they were doing, yeah, so now thanks Mike. We’re gonna have to field some calls on that, but, but we are, you know, they were doing a coyote study, I remember we couldn’t shoot coyotes and I was, we were Dr you know, glossing and driving and glossing and driving and glossing on there and they, they, you know, of course made us all camp together and they get to regulate what you do on there. But anyway, yeah. You know, I mean it was like cyo infested. It was unbelievable. That’s all I remember about it. That, and one thing, it

00:26:40:26 –> 00:26:51:10
Still is that way in the most of the southeastern part of the state is that way on the eastern plain. So it’s just absolutely loaded with coyotes. Anybody draws a deer antelope tag down there could confirm that you just see multiple

00:26:51:25 –> 00:26:52:04

00:26:52:13 –> 00:26:52:22

00:26:52:25 –> 00:26:59:13
A day. So anybody that wants to become insta-famous on, you know, predator control could go out there and call in a bunch of dogs. You know,

00:26:59:26 –> 00:27:05:05
You could, if you wanted to be a social media coyote killing famous, you could go down there.

00:27:05:11 –> 00:27:05:29
There you go.

00:27:07:13 –> 00:27:08:25
So tell us like, there’s

00:27:08:25 –> 00:27:09:02
A niche.

00:27:09:20 –> 00:27:31:16
So what, tell us, like let’s talk about the different seasons, you know, maybe jump off track a little bit here, but just, you know, the scouting, like you said, I’m here, I’m down here, I’m, you know, when you first enter, enter Colorado, you’re hunting the PJ for sheds. You’re seeing sheds, you’re hunting where the deer are. Sure. And that’s what Adam and I have learned as well. I mean, we all grow up and kinda learn how to hunt.

00:27:31:26 –> 00:28:30:19
Colorado’s different than other states as far as its alpine mule deer and, and you know, different parts of states are a little different from each other. But with these deer in the summer, there’s an incredible amount of recreationalists that are out there hiking, climbing mountains and goofing off all through the, the Colorado. I mean, it’s a vacation destination. So when you look at the access on a lot of these places where there’s mountain valleys and people backpacking up through them, you know, there, it really does have an effect on the deer in the summering there. So, you know, you’ll, it’ll effectively push the older bucks out of there. They just won’t hang out in those spots. So when you look at, you know, recreational opportunity for people in the summer and want to combine your archery hunt, you know, it’s something to shy away from it. It really does take an effort to get away from people here in this state. And so it’s something to keep in mind. And also with archery in Colorado, the, the tag numbers are still pretty liberal and it, it just blows me away how many people are out there bow hunting now?

00:28:31:00 –> 00:28:45:02
Well, and you got archery deer and then, you know, unlimited archery elk hunters on top of you. So you don’t just draw an archery deer tag and think, ah, I got the mountain to myself first crack. You show up and you got elk hunters. Yeah. Giant camps, 10 to 15 people.

00:28:45:16 –> 00:28:46:17
Dunno the difference between

00:28:46:17 –> 00:28:46:23
A deer

00:28:47:00 –> 00:28:49:13
Bull hunter and elk bow hunter. There’s just people out there. Yes.

00:28:49:25 –> 00:28:50:29
And that’s the same thing, the

00:28:51:00 –> 00:28:52:05
Trailhead right near my house.

00:28:52:14 –> 00:29:07:05
And that’s the same thing we find in the second and third season as well when they’re over the counter with rifle elk hunters, you know, you’ve just got a lot of orange, there’s a lot of jeeps and anyway, down on the deer winter range, but a lot of ’em don’t have deer tags. They’ve got a over the counter elk tags. Yeah,

00:29:08:00 –> 00:29:44:12
Yeah. We’ve, the deer in Colorado in a lot of places, they’re really locked into those alpine willows. And so when you get those first frost up there and, and the leaves start falling off the willows, those bucks just bail out of this, that stuff, they, there’s not a lot of other stuff for them to eat up there. The alpine willows and then the, some of that short alpine grass. But once that stuff burns and you know, the deer just drop right out of the alpine. And so it really makes for a tough archery hunt later in the season. It’s, it’s very good in the first couple weeks, but it can change rapidly. And we often get our first snows in that alpine country in the first week or 2nd of September. So,

00:29:44:19 –> 00:29:53:14
So if a guy’s gonna archery, if a guy’s gonna archery hunt that, obviously it’s a very liberal dang near month. I mean you’re, you’re saying go right off the bat, hit it as hard as you can

00:29:53:14 –> 00:30:24:28
Right off the bat. Yep, yep. Absolutely. You, you should be there and not, not for the opener, you should, you know, open, you plan on killing a buck. Yeah. The first couple days you should be there a week plus before it opens and, and it can take a, you know, quite a bit of effort to locate a good buck in the alpine. So, you know, the guys that do actually get what, you know, truly mature deer. ’cause you know, some of these deer, they, they look like they’re big, but they’re, you know, effectively three or four year olds was velvet on ’em. So you, they look a lot bigger than they are, especially with the way guys take photos. Come on.

00:30:25:05 –> 00:30:28:04
I wanna truly, that’s a whole other podcast. Their podcast

00:30:28:26 –> 00:30:29:22
Especially for

00:30:29:22 –> 00:30:33:24
From, it’s the truth, you know, if you want a really big deer, you gotta put a lot of effort into it. So

00:30:33:24 –> 00:30:35:19
Especially into the photo taking. And you

00:30:35:19 –> 00:31:21:14
Mentioned something Yeah, Mike, regarding Big Deer as three and four year olds. I mean, Colorado genetics, it flat outgrows big bucks. You’ve mentioned the B n c record books, you know, repeatedly and, and you’d be totally ignorant to not recognize Colorado status among, well both typical and non-typical mule deer entries. So let’s talk about that for a minute. In terms of the management trends, what do you think, I mean there are, there is bloodlines, we know that, and, and that’s gotta play into it for, from a Colorado standpoint, but what do you think are some of the more important factors you think that that has made Colorado even through all the changes from the over the counter to the draw and then now maybe things have flattened a little bit. What, what makes Colorado produce like it

00:31:21:14 –> 00:31:28:00
Does? Well and obviously it’s got habitat and numbers that’s like, it’s it’s got that on top of any state, you know, just to kind

00:31:28:00 –> 00:32:14:23
There, there’s no doubt about it. It’s, it’s the, the habitat summer and winter and just the genetics of these high Mountain Valley herds and, and how you can have four year old bucks that make the wrecker book. I mean it’s, it’s not crazy to think a a four and a half year old buck could net over one 90. I mean they just, wow. They have that ability to do it. It’s, yeah, I’ve seen it and, and it is quite amazing. It’s like very few places anywhere in the West that, you know, but we’re talking typical four points and then you, you start looking for super top end deer and you know, like compared to the Arizona strip, which it, that place just boggles the imagination. What it continues to produce every deer. Yeah. Colorado really doesn’t have the ability to pro produce a lot of non-typical like that place does. And so,

00:32:15:01 –> 00:32:50:18
But I think too, if was the Arizona strips, you know, they’re managed for 60 tags or 30 or 40 tags depending on the unit and the year, you know, and you guys are still having to manage quantity. You know, you, you are having to, you got huge herds you’re managing and whatnot. And it might be shocking if we take one unit and, you know, besides 44 ’cause you know, 44 is, deer numbers are just low to begin with. But, but if you, you know, to manage it like the strip does the strip, I mean they, they out and now say this is our crown jewel, so to speak a mule deer for our state. Yes. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah,

00:32:51:05 –> 00:33:22:14
Yeah. And, and you know, I get that there’s an idea out there of recruiting hunters and taking young kids hunting and, and the opportunity and all that. But it just seems like there’s a way too much of a bias towards opportunity as opposed to quality for deer hunting in Colorado. I think the deer are taken for granted and used as a bit of a, you know, a cash cow to fund a, a state wildlife agency and you know, it’s, it, it’s the nature of the beast and you know, there’s a bureaucracy involved and you know, fingers pointed at other people and that’s just how, how it is. Well,

00:33:22:14 –> 00:33:41:00
And I think, and we see that with Utah, you know, we’ve seen it with Utah over the past. We’re getting better and we’re managing tighter. But our general tags, you know, our old general tags, idaho’s over the counter tags, Wyoming’s over the counter tags, every state has a tendency to do that to a degree. Yeah. It’s, I don’t think it’s unique necessarily to Colorado. It’s a battle we all fight.

00:33:41:09 –> 00:33:49:26
Well and I guess what I’d wanna point out is despite that in Colorado, look at what it’s been, look at what it’s done over the last, you know Yeah. Our lifetimes still

00:33:50:17 –> 00:33:54:04
Tried to wreck it. We’ve tried to wreck it. Yeah. And it’s still producing. Yeah. I

00:33:54:04 –> 00:33:55:04
Mean it, there’s something good

00:33:55:04 –> 00:34:19:00
Going on. I mean, we’re hunting rifle hunts, pre rutt, rutt, rutt, you know, three basic, you know, pre rutt with the second, you know, pre maybe a little pre rutt third and then rutt on the fourth. And we’re with rifles. I mean, and you’re not supposed to do that. Proper big game management would say don’t hunt the rutt, you know, but we Right. But we do it and they’re killing us. You know what I mean? Yes. And continuing to rewrite the record book depending on the year.

00:34:19:13 –> 00:34:27:13
Yes. Yeah. And it goes to show you that all you really do need to have is deer get, need to get old. Yeah. And you get big deer one way or another.

00:34:27:17 –> 00:34:27:24

00:34:28:14 –> 00:34:51:22
Well, you’ve probably seen all the pictures of these gigantic deer out the Rocky Mountain arsenal just east of Denver. And it’s out by the airport and it’s 25 square miles of fence to prairie. And the biggest flipping deer on the planet are out in that place right now. And they’re all over Instagram. And, and it’s like, there’s nothing special about that place. It’s just, it’s prairie and cottonwoods. Yeah.

00:34:51:28 –> 00:34:53:04
Well and know there, no,

00:34:53:04 –> 00:34:56:14
Their feed only goes so long. No special minerals. No, no special genetics, no

00:34:56:29 –> 00:35:12:25
Sagebrush. It’s just prairie and cottonwood. And those are the biggest deer on the planet right now. So, you know, the Henry Mountains historically we’re not, not talking the last 20 years, like, you know, back in through history, it was never known as as that’s giant. One of giant hotspot. That’s right. The, the record book’s not full of Henry.

00:35:13:00 –> 00:35:18:01
Same thing with animal pilot. Have you seen the feed on Animal Pilot? Well, nothing compared Tomore.

00:35:18:10 –> 00:35:51:17
You look at all the limited entry unit, all the limited entry units in Utah, Ponson Henry’s book, cliffs, Oak Creek, Vernon, all of them were general season and had to be shut down because of either the tendency for the deer to not recruit heavily like super summer range units were and be able to keep up with the demands placed upon them by everybody pounding one, two year old bucks. You know? And they couldn’t keep up either that San Juan Yeah. San Juan Elkridge shut, every single one of ’em flat. They shut

00:35:51:17 –> 00:35:51:22

00:35:51:24 –> 00:36:16:14
Flat shut had shut ’em down because they were over hunted. And when they reopened they’ve never went back to general because everybody likes what they see. They want something to aspire to. And they’ve left that way way. Right. So by accident, really by accident, they’ve been discovered the ponant by accident. It’s got phenomenal genetics. We learned that after the fact kind of they share ’em with Arizona on the winter range. There’s,

00:36:16:14 –> 00:36:29:20
There’s nowhere like the po if the SCO was managed, like Arizona manages the strip. I mean the TTS in my opinion, and of course it’s just one of these three opinions on the phone here, but you know, would be the number one genetics, feed everything if it was managed.

00:36:29:20 –> 00:36:45:12
It’s same, it’s the same itap. They, they mingle in the winter and, and that blood’s there. But anyway, kinda like what you described about that, that area near you by accident, there’s giant bucks there. You know what I mean? Right. Because they’ve had to be, you know, hunting precluded and all that. So yeah,

00:36:45:12 –> 00:36:55:14
I think these are just glaring examples of, of the idea that it just doesn’t take anything super special. It just takes the idea of limiting it and letting them get ahold it. Oh dear. And all that comes, you find

00:36:55:14 –> 00:36:59:16
Deer that deer that die of old age, you know, if you’ve got a few of ’em, you’re gonna have the right deer.

00:36:59:21 –> 00:37:24:18
And so taking that to Yeah. The, I guess areas we can hunt, you know, there’s areas there, there’s reasons we why deer can escape. They can either be because well maybe the tag numbers are slightly lower than, than they could be and they’re under harvesting them. Or you have units with excessive timber and you have really warm years. Like we’ve had the last two years Mike with Right. Terrible hunts overall.

00:37:24:18 –> 00:37:37:12
Yeah. You’ve got deer that are, that are on the third and fourth season, Adam you hunted, you hunted a particular unit. It sucked. And I don’t think it hurts to tell people what it was, but it won’t. But anyway, you were hunting four season at 10,000 feet. Oh

00:37:37:12 –> 00:37:40:07
We killed bucks at over 10,000 feet on four seasons

00:37:40:07 –> 00:37:54:25
On fourth. And so that’s what I’m saying. Yeah. And that’s Adam’s point is here we are, we’re hunt, you got bucks that’s sometimes don’t come out of the timber during a state given season a normal season. Yeah. And so, and you, so you have a statement. You have a statement, you’re gonna have age. Yeah.

00:37:54:25 –> 00:38:18:22
And it, but it just, it still does take look, you know, for a deer to reach that magic age. And, you know, the, the giant non typicals I think take generally more time to get truly big than, you know, typicals. You know, a lot of typicals will peak and they’re five, five to seven, five to six year. Yeah, sure. And maybe start throwing some trash or going down. But these giant non typicals generally the ones I’ve seen, they take, you know, they get at least eight or nine years

00:38:18:22 –> 00:38:19:18
Old. Yeah. Seven to nine.

00:38:19:27 –> 00:38:25:18
And you know, like that buck that Brett Ross killed is, I don’t know the exact score, but it’s, you know, close to

00:38:25:18 –> 00:38:28:06
300. Let’s just call it a three. Yeah, exactly.

00:38:28:07 –> 00:39:06:28
Yeah. Yeah. I think we can call it a 300 inch. And my buddy had found that gear about oh three or four years before that. And I actually hunted him two years before Brett killed him and never did see him. Of course. And my buddy saw him two years in a row in there. And it was in a spot that it was no wonder he, he got big and old, it was just as nasty of a place as you could conjure up, but also had some protected winter range where he wouldn’t have been visible to anybody. And I think that’s important too. ’cause when you have those deer winter in a spot where nobody gets eyes on him Yeah. You know, you just might have that magic thing occur where, you know, deer gets lucky, deer got

00:39:06:28 –> 00:39:07:19
The right deer, genetic the deer

00:39:07:19 –> 00:39:08:02
Two or three more

00:39:08:08 –> 00:39:25:02
The of timber. Yep. And, and some of that, some of that somewhat roadless even though Yeah. You know, it feels like nothing’s roadless anymore. Some of that is fairly tough to access, you know, and Right. And just lets him get a little age. Well we talked about archery a little bit. Tell us about your thoughts on the muzzle season.

00:39:26:02 –> 00:39:45:01
The muzzle loader’s a tricky one. ’cause there’s, you know, there’s a lot of temptation to be up there in the alpine for obvious reasons in September. But those storms and the, the willows and, and the, the archery season rolls around, or the muzzle loader season rolls around a little bit date wise. And it’s all set off a, you know, a certain Saturday after September 1st and all that.

00:39:45:21 –> 00:39:50:23
Yeah. I think this year is the, starts on the ninth. It’s the earliest it ever gets in 2018. And that,

00:39:51:11 –> 00:39:51:24

00:39:51:24 –> 00:39:52:18
Eighth I think. Yeah.

00:39:52:18 –> 00:39:54:01
Eight or nine. Yep. Yep. So,

00:39:54:13 –> 00:40:18:20
And so these alpine bucks, they’ll be rubbing their velvet right about that opener. So you could scout a deer for a week up until that opener and for whatever reason he might rub his velvet two days before the opener and he’s gone. And that’s, that’s just the nature of those kind of deer. They, they can be up there and as soon as they rub their velvet, they can just drop down in the timber. They might not be that far away, but hunting a deer in an alpine basin versus

00:40:19:18 –> 00:40:19:29

00:40:20:03 –> 00:40:50:22
You know, down in the timber are two different things. But you know, it’s that muzz loader can be really good. I I just feel like there’s so many archery hunters out there right now, you know, guys that have just taken, taken into the sport just for the sake of, you know, the equipment and, and it’s fun and you know, you’re always doing something whether you’re shooting grouse or stumps or something, you know, for keeps, you know, people gives them something to do and be busy. Yeah. And, and I think it’s a, a very appealing activity, you know, whether or not it’s the best way to go about hunting.

00:40:50:25 –> 00:40:52:01
Well, weather’s usually good.

00:40:52:01 –> 00:41:01:13
That’s why if you wanna bring something home every year that’s different. But Yeah. You know, it, it’s changed and the number of people out there has really affected archery and muzzle loader success in my mind.

00:41:01:17 –> 00:41:36:18
Well, and I, yeah, and I think like, especially where you have over-the-counter archery tags. Obviously these archery hunts have a set tag number, so it’s not like there’s really more hunters in the field, you know, for deer specifically. But, but obviously those over-the-counter archery elk. But it is the demand, the increased demand on getting, let’s say, yeah, 21 archery has 60 tags. The increased demand of, of those 60 tags and the quality of hunter of those 60 tags has changed the guy and the cult quality of equipment. So those 60 guys are so much better equipped at killing big animals than it used to

00:41:36:18 –> 00:41:38:07
Be. It’s gonna take seven or eight points. They’re

00:41:38:07 –> 00:41:40:04
Not shooting 20, 30 yards, they’re shooting 80.

00:41:40:09 –> 00:41:49:02
And if it’s seven to eight points to draw it, you’re, you’re treating it a little bit different than it’s just an over thethe counter archery, deer hunt, Utah or somewhere else. I

00:41:49:02 –> 00:41:58:19
Do, I do feel like if you really wanted to kill a giant buck and you had the skills and you’re willing to put the time in, I think archery is your best bet in Colorado. Yeah. Because you

00:41:58:19 –> 00:41:59:18
Could scout your bug,

00:41:59:18 –> 00:42:21:00
Scout it. Yep. And, and do it that way. And, and obviously I’m not doing it so I’m not listening to my own advice, but, you know, if a guy was really driven and, and wanted to do it, and you know, this, this kid, I know Justin Davis, he’s a firefighter in department west of Denver, and he just killed a fantastic buck this year. Biggest buck he’ll probably ever kill by by doing just that. He, how

00:42:21:00 –> 00:42:21:29
Big, how big was

00:42:21:29 –> 00:42:57:11
It at the time and Oh, it was mid thirties kind of buck. I don’t, geez, I don’t know the score exactly, but stuck the kind of deer that very few people would pass up anytime, anywhere, so, wow. You know, and he did it the right way. He put in his time, he found one in the summer and, and made it happen. So it’s that, that is probably the best way to kill a truly giant buck in Colorado, is to be really good with a, a bow and put your time in and, and be able to pass animals up. That’s just, yeah. You know, you’re, you’re gonna see 50 deer smaller than that before you see that one giant. So,

00:42:57:14 –> 00:43:07:00
So as we move from the muzzle, you know, we kind of, you know, of course there’s these high country rifle hunts and some of them, you know, kind of compete with the muzz or hunters just depending on,

00:43:07:04 –> 00:43:09:16
On the particular unit. Not really that special in my opinion.

00:43:09:17 –> 00:43:14:19
Yeah. But just wondering kind of what your thoughts are as we move into that second season, third season, they’ve

00:43:14:19 –> 00:43:36:07
Never really intrigued me, intrigued me that much. I know there’s been a, just a handful of bucks, you know, really good deer killed on those hunts over the years. But, you know, I think for the most part they’re, they’re token more than, you know, truly a tool for a guy to do. Well and some of ’em have, I think, unrealistic restrictions placed on ’em, you know, you know, an elevation zone in a unit

00:43:36:14 –> 00:43:37:16
Yeah. Above Timberland, you know,

00:43:37:16 –> 00:43:52:00
They’re in Yeah. And they’re in units that really have very poor summer. You know, that, that hunt in 45, the high country buck hunt, you think? Well, hell, it’s right above 44. It must be really good. Well, yeah. Go up there in the rock pile and see how you do.

00:43:52:12 –> 00:43:54:28
Yeah. It’s above Timberline, but there’s nothing. Yeah.

00:43:54:28 –> 00:43:57:23
If it was really good, they wouldn’t let you do it. Nope.

00:43:59:08 –> 00:44:00:20
There’s some tags we can sell.

00:44:00:25 –> 00:44:02:29
I’m not, I’m not a big fan of those, but, you know, to each

00:44:03:01 –> 00:44:05:25
Own. But it generates revenue. Mike just generates revenue. Yeah.

00:44:05:25 –> 00:44:08:14
It gets a, gets a few guys with a lot of points out of the pool,

00:44:08:15 –> 00:44:10:02
So. That’s right. That’s right. So,

00:44:10:07 –> 00:44:41:00
So when it comes to you as Jason brought up the second thirds, maybe fourth, but you’re, you predominantly, let’s talk about, I guess what you, how you evaluate your year and what do you, how do you, how do you decide what season you wanna personally go on? And obviously you live there, resident drawing odds are a whole lot different than non-residents in many cases. You can maybe get your tag or tag every year, nearly every year. So, but tell me, tell us how you view that first season, which is the October, you know, I love

00:44:41:00 –> 00:44:42:20
That. Right. I love that second season.

00:44:42:20 –> 00:44:45:10
It’s our second, second rifle season, but it’s the first deer season.

00:44:45:22 –> 00:44:46:13
Yes. Right. It’s called

00:44:46:23 –> 00:44:54:17
The second combined season, I think is how they refer to it. Yeah. But that’s the season I killed my biggest deer in. So, but it’s,

00:44:54:19 –> 00:44:57:10
Which which is, let’s, let’s just dive into that.

00:44:57:19 –> 00:45:14:29
Oh, well he’s, he was 38 and a half wide when I killed him. I think he’s 38 and eight now. But he’s got a two 17 gross typical frame gross, non-typical with a couple cheaters is 2 21 and he net’s 2 0 8 and an eighth’s typical.

00:45:15:07 –> 00:45:37:07
Yeah. It’s just unbelievable for everybody that’s listening. Anybody that was at the expo or there’s a picture of him on my Instagram page re row three. Unbelievable dear. One of those kind of deer that you know. Of course, of course. Adam and I will never kill a deer that big. But we’re, we promise you’ll hear about it if we do. Yeah. It’s one of those kind of deer, I dunno about that. It’s one of those kind of deer,

00:45:38:01 –> 00:46:08:16
You know, you know, it’s, it’s not that it’s just big, it, it’s the fact, the shape of it, it’s just, it’s just astounding. I didn’t grow him, I just shot him. I can’t take any credit for that deer other than being smart enough to put a bullet into him when I, when I had the opportunity. But, you know, he’s an incredibly unusual animal. Antler configuration. I, ja, Jason was joking with me out in Salt Lake, you know, if I had the taxidermy split the skull for me. ’cause he, well he does, he looks like he’s just flopped out there wide.

00:46:08:18 –> 00:46:18:00
Well, it’s a set of rep, it’s a set of replicas. And I’m like, what? You know, are you sure that’s like legit because it just doesn’t look right. Yeah. Talked to Colton

00:46:18:00 –> 00:46:58:16
Banks about that. He, he’s the one that cast it. So, but yeah, it does, it, it, they, they go out and it’s like a, you know how those big Alaska Yukon moose, their, their antlers get so big and heavy. I think they, the main beams turn down, kind of turn down a little bit, and that’s what this buck is. Yeah. And I don’t think it’s from the weight, I think it’s just the style of an antler. Sure. But he turns down and flares out, and his and his forks are 15 inches deep, front and back. And, and they’re splayed out really wide too. So all these factors of, you know, he is really just very appealing to the eye. And, and there’s one thing that not many people know about him. The most astounding thing about that buck get ready for this is I had him tooth aged at five and a half years old.

00:46:58:16 –> 00:47:05:20
There you go. I was gonna ask you, because you were saying typicals four and a half to five netting over one 90 there in your state. So, so

00:47:06:09 –> 00:47:14:26
That kind of takes away from a little bit of my credibility since this giant deer. He wasn’t very old, and so in theory he wasn’t very smart. So that means, you know, I’m not,

00:47:15:02 –> 00:47:15:08

00:47:15:12 –> 00:47:15:23
Just luck

00:47:15:23 –> 00:47:18:18
Onto, I just found a big, a big young dumb one, so,

00:47:19:10 –> 00:47:32:12
Oh, no. Anybody that’s followed, you knows, you killed too many to call it luck. So tell us a little bit about, let’s just talk about that story a little bit, and then we’ll tie that into the second season and your thoughts behind it. But tell us, like, did you know about him before or?

00:47:32:25 –> 00:48:21:19
I did not. And you know, I, I got the flu basically a day or two, well, probably the day before the season started. And, and I just was just in bad shape that morning. I still drove, got up early and drove over there, and I just did not have it in me. It was snowing lightly. And, and I was, you know, a little bit of chills and just feeling pretty weak. And so I was literally glassing out my truck and saw some bull elk way up high in this little pocket. And so I was glassing these bull elk and right across my field of view in the spotting scope, walks this deer. And he’s, he’s in some brush and he comes out in the open, he is broadside, so I never did see how wide he was, but all I could see was these big black forks at about three miles away. And, and it seems like a long ways to look, but you know how it is if you get quality glass and a rock solid rest and snow

00:48:22:07 –> 00:48:24:11
Lupo, wind, rivers loop pool, wind, wind,

00:48:25:10 –> 00:48:28:10
Rco spotter. No, it’s a big, the big dog Swarovski hd.

00:48:28:19 –> 00:48:28:24

00:48:29:07 –> 00:48:42:28
And so I, I could, I could see he was a really good deer. And of course he was dark antler enough against the snow that it made him, you know, they usually looked bigger and heavier that way too. But it was enough where, you know, I was just, I was stoked all sudden,

00:48:43:07 –> 00:48:45:11
All sudden. You didn’t have the flu anymore all of a sudden.

00:48:45:21 –> 00:48:49:11
Yeah. Well, I thought I didn’t, but I started hiking and literally

00:48:49:14 –> 00:48:51:02
Tos kicked in pep one. We’re ready

00:48:52:08 –> 00:49:36:00
A quarter mile up this hill. And I’m just, I’m spinning my head is just, geez, like, I thought I was gonna pass out. I’m, I’m weak. And I’m like, oh, please God, let me get back to my truck. I promise not to go out. Geez. And I went home and I spent two days in bed. It was that bad. Wow. Wow. And that’s after, well, I knew what I was looking at too, and it was the best year I think I’d ever seen in the field. And so, you know, a few days later, and we had got another snowstorm right at that time. So there was a u unique thing that happened that year in the second season. That area got three small snow storms in that time period. It kept warming up. But you know, that, that those snows, even in late October, they get a deer thinking. Yeah. They get a buck thinking and they, you know, relax ’em a little bit and they snow

00:49:36:00 –> 00:49:36:20
Kills deer. They

00:49:36:20 –> 00:49:39:05
Put ’em out and they start, there’s no close. They poke around a little bit more

00:49:39:13 –> 00:49:42:18
Raking some brush here and there a little bit more. Seems like pretty

00:49:42:18 –> 00:49:42:24

00:49:43:08 –> 00:50:45:00
It was, it was a, this hike was a commitment getting up into the spot. So I ended up going up there, I think three times and saw those bulls again and never saw that deer until the, the evening that I killed them. And I was still hutt along this, this edge and looking down into this little swale. And, and I saw this antler from behind a, a cedar, and it looked like one of those, you know, like the two and a half year old five point rag horns where they got those Y’s on the back of their rack. And it, and it had an unusual looking fork to it. And I thought, honestly, thought it was an elk handler. So it was, but it was this 15 inch deep, big back fork on this buck. And, and he turned his head a little bit. I’m like, oh my God, that’s a, that’s a buck. But he’s battered right in front of this cedar big trunk coming out of the base. And I couldn’t get a shot of him where he is laying down there. And so I got already, and you know, it’s a afternoon, the sun’s still out, the wind’s in my face, it’s coming uphill. Wow. And how far you, and finally I’m listen than a hundred yards, but the wind’s in my favor. Geez.

00:50:45:10 –> 00:50:46:29
You’re thinking about splitting his skull?

00:50:48:02 –> 00:51:28:22
Oh, I’m, I’m thinking about it. But it was, it literally was a, a really bad opportunity right there. I had rock solid, but I, you know, I just didn’t wanna blow it. I knew as soon as he stood up, I could, if I was patient, I’d just hammer him. Yeah. So he finally, the, the sun dipped below the horizon and he stood up, and when he stood up out of his bed, he stood up right forward, just kind of get up one step forward where he was behind the tree completely. And you know, at this point, this, the breeze is starting to switch where it’s, instead of coming up in my face with a warm light hitting me, it’s starting to switch directions, go downhill. Well, he was across the hill just enough where he couldn’t smell me, but I could feel the breeze on the back of my neck.

00:51:28:23 –> 00:52:11:28
And fortunately he started feeding out across to the right and kind of went down in a little swale and it was all open across this little swale in the brush. And I thought, well, for sure I’m gonna just, you know, be patient and you’re gonna get a shot. And finally he comes out and he’s right in the belly, this little draw. And he, he stops and he’s got his head up and I’ve got my scope on him. And it wasn’t like I even thought about it. All of a sudden, I, my, the trigger just goes up and I, I shot him. Wow. And, and that was it. And I, you know, I honestly thought he was about 33 or 34 inches wide. And I got down there and this antlers sticking up out of the brush and I just, it blew me away. Yeah. So,

00:52:12:26 –> 00:52:36:16
Unbelievable. I think I was, I, I, I’ll have to look, but I think that year I was hunting 44 second I think, I can’t remember for sure, but it was, we had snow, I had snow, and it was unbelievable. And I, I passed a deer. I shouldn’t have, but that was kind of my point. What I wanted to kind of get out of this is some years it is hard to beat the second, even though it’s, and then Oh yeah.

00:52:36:19 –> 00:52:39:05
You get, you get to go first. You’re the first rifle deer.

00:52:39:05 –> 00:52:45:17
Yeah. Brian’s Brian La Turner from, from the, oh, what is it? The Mul Deere website? Monster

00:52:45:17 –> 00:52:46:12
Mules. Yeah.

00:52:46:13 –> 00:53:11:08
Monster Mules. Yeah. He’s made a, a science of hunting the second season. He knows he can always get a landowner, a voucher and Sure. And he’s hit it pretty hard that way. And he’s hasn’t killed a deer every year, but he’s killed some really good ones in the second season because he’s always willing to go. And, and yeah, I guess kind of my point is that, that deer, I would’ve never gotten him if I wasn’t putting the time in. And you gotta put the time in to get those kind of animals and Yeah. And being out there is, is half the battle

00:53:11:13 –> 00:53:24:00
Allows it to come together. You gotta be out there and you can go second season for non-residents may not be as, as big a disparity for a, a resident, but non-residents can go a lot more often, a lot less

00:53:24:00 –> 00:53:28:05
Points, a lot more often. Yep. Even even second choice. And still gain a point, you

00:53:28:05 –> 00:54:04:13
Know. Yeah. And there’s something I’ve espoused in some of my articles I’ve written is the idea of, you know, how easy elk tags are to get in the state and, you know, you may not wanna get a bull tag, but if you got a cow tag, I think they’re 250 bucks or something like that for a non-resident Sure. And you go learn a unit and you know, you get a cow and you get, you know, a couple hundred pounds of some fantastic game meat, but you’re also learning what it takes to hunt that unit that you want to draw. Yeah. And I think people are foolish for sitting on the sidelines. Yeah. Just stacking points up and not learning a unit by something as simple as going cowel hunting in it.

00:54:04:20 –> 00:54:22:06
Yeah. Well, I, I think you’re exactly right. And this, this year, it looks like the dates are gonna be October 20th to the 28th. But tell us, I mean, you know, we’ve of course we’ve hunted the third a lot and I know you have as well, just your kind of opinion on that November 3rd hunt, November 3rd to the 11th.

00:54:23:02 –> 00:55:04:25
Yeah. It, it’s really weather dependent. It, you know, if you get that one storm, it makes all the difference in the world. I had a third season tag this fall and, and had one storm, I think there’s a small storm, I think on opening day, maybe in the second day I was out there and, and glassed up a, a big buck a couple miles off in a quay patch on the second morning. ’cause there was a little bit of snow to give that relief against the trees and, and watched them. I knew there was no way I could make a play, but spent the, the rest of the hunt trying to, to get a glimpse of ’em again and never did see ’em again. ’cause it warmed up and you couldn’t see into the trees and trees and, you know, trying to glass into Aspen trees with even a skiff of snow versus no snow. It’s just different. A world of difference.

00:55:05:13 –> 00:55:06:06
It’s, and

00:55:06:29 –> 00:55:12:13
You know, the mild deer have everything they need in Aspen. So I mean, they do not have to leave it. There’s always gonna be be water.

00:55:12:22 –> 00:55:31:00
I was hunting the fourth one year, of course, you know, Piney Valley, we used to spend some time on their place back when Garth would get a tag and whatnot. And I mean, I didn’t even know what they ate. The, the leaves were off nothing. It felt like there was no food. There was bark and snow and the deer love it. Yeah. They freaking live in it. I think

00:55:31:00 –> 00:55:45:04
It’s partly they, you know, in the summer there is a canopy in those things and that the leaf canopy in Aspen allows a lot of understory if you don’t have too many conifers in there. Yeah. A lot of understory to grow grass for everything, snowberry all that.

00:55:45:04 –> 00:55:46:28
So even though it doesn’t look like there’s Yeah.

00:55:46:28 –> 00:56:01:07
And they just, I think they just live there ’cause that security, it’s shady and it’s a green, they don’t have productive understory. And then when the leaves fall off, it’s not like they just don’t like this place. I think they still feel that security ’cause Yeah, they, they’ve lived there all year. Yeah.

00:56:01:21 –> 00:56:12:29
If you went and sat in a, an aspen forest and you’re looking out over at the cross at the opposite hill, you can’t see it very well ’cause all the trees around you. Yeah. And so, you know, I know the deer, they think we can’t see ’em in there. So that’s

00:56:12:29 –> 00:56:13:26
A Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.

00:56:14:14 –> 00:56:57:22
That’s a, a big advantage to a hunter is knowing that we can see in with snow, but they think we can’t see ’em. So they’re very active during the day in the quakes and, and they’re always go goofing off, moving around and you, you can’t just bet a buck in the quakes and think he’s gonna stay there all day. Either he’s gonna be up two or three times during the day and goofing off and moving around. So Yeah. You know, if you, you know, spot one and bed him down and, and try to make a play and you don’t get there within a couple hours, he’s, he’s not gonna be there. Yeah. So he’ll get up to another spot that’s shady or cooler and, and if there’s little blue spruces little groups of blue spruce, they really like to bed in those things that are, you know, in the middle of the quay patches. So that’s a, a pretty good spot to be looking.

00:56:57:29 –> 00:57:23:25
So as we talk about this last season, at least on the West slope, you know, is that fourth season, five day season, November 14th to the 18th. And just, you know, our thoughts have always been, and, and of course we, we like the fourth at times. It’s nice, you know, if the, if it hits just right, but, you know, we were hunting at one year and you end up with three days of blizzard, you know what I mean? Or I mean, it’s not a long enough span to really, you know, no

00:57:24:09 –> 00:58:21:04
One, one storm can really mess you up as far as, I mean, it could be super helpful, but it also could, you know, take away two to three days of hunting and you, you know, when you have, you know, 15, 20 points invested into a tag and you know, it can only hunt two days. That’s a, it’s a, it’s a crazy short season at times of, you know, there for elk it’s not as as critical, but for deer, it, you could really mess you up. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve helped a couple guys out with their four season tags and it’s, it’s weird ’cause you know, you feel like you’ve just got, you know, a sand hourglass and you’re watching this thing just slip away in your hands and, you know, every, every day, you know, the first morning, well, the season’s 10% over, well by that night it’s 20% over by the next morning it’s 30% over. It just goes so fast. Yep. Yeah. And so if you’re not prepared and, and you don’t have your homework done it, you know, five days isn’t enough just to show up and no, and think you’re gonna make it happen and

00:58:21:04 –> 00:58:40:29
You add poor weather or, or in this case, like no weather, no storms right. Prior to it, and you’re just hunting deer that essentially got done getting crushed during a third season by over-the-counter elk hunters and much more liberal deer hunting pressure in terms of tags and like, and that’s been the case the last couple years. It’s been almost a bust on four season hunts.

00:58:40:29 –> 00:59:35:02
Yeah, it has. I want to talk a little bit about what we talked about. Just, we’ve talked about it, you and I have of course just here and there, but about your dedication to stuff that’s close to home and really focus and what I’m finding with these, I was visiting with this Chad Roberts super good guy that killed that 290 fiver in Arizona. Sure. Spent a lot of time with him and we’re gonna have him on a podcast next week. But is what I find, you know, similar about all these guys that are, you know, killing these giant bucks or giant bulls or rams or whatever is they have a laser focus on specific animals or specific areas. And I feel like that’s with you. Like you mentioned earlier, I know you’ve hunted region h a few times, but then it feels like you’ve really honed it in and just brought it home and, and trying to make the most out of your, your home area. I just want you to just touch on that a little bit and your thoughts behind that.

00:59:35:02 –> 01:00:15:20
There’s very few guys that I think can go and do multiple hunts and be successful. I’m not saying it can’t be done and you see guys that are able to do it at times, but if they’re, you know, you see a guy that go kill four bucks in four states, well, he might kill one good buck, and then he is got a handful of three year olds to go along with him. They might, you know, be 24, 25 inches wide. But, you know, there’s still deer that in my mind and, you know, probably yours and Adam’s that should be living another two or three years. Sure. And, and, and so, you know, that’s, that’s not, it’s not about quantity, it’s about quality. And so for me, I, I found that if I was gonna try, you know, everything I want is in my backyard for the most part.

01:00:15:26 –> 01:01:01:29
And, you know, I was really disheartened by the amount of pressure region h had when I went up there. It was, seemed like there was guys backpacked into every basin. And you know, there’s, you know, good bucks of course, but, you know, it, it just, the amount of pressure affects people. And so, you know, trying to get things dialed in and, and where you feel like you are hunting smart, not just stumbling around the woods with a rifle and there’s a purpose to what you’re doing and, you know, plan. And, and so, you know, there’s that and you know, also the idea of, you know, passing animals up and, and hunting for a, you know, I I just, I’m at the point in my life where I just, I don’t need to kill something every time. I, it’s gotta, you know, it’s gotta work for me.

01:01:02:01 –> 01:01:45:23
And yeah, I killed an old buck this year. That was the worst scoring buck I’ve killed since the nineties. But, you know, I, I was looking at him, it’s Friday and he’s an old buck with big bases and I’m like, you know what? He’s an old man. And, and I like that buck. And, and that was it. You know, I made it happen. But yeah. You know, it’s because, you know, I’ve become familiar with the spots where I’m hunting if I can get a tag and, and, you know, it’s, it’s comforting to know that you’re hunting the same area and you learn how to do it and there’s purpose and, and a plan and, and all that that goes along with it. Yeah. You know, I, I enjoy it more than, than the idea of just blindly going around all over the west with, you know, the hopes of just trying to find a deer. You know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a tough thing. So

01:01:45:24 –> 01:01:46:23
Tell us a, you guys

01:01:47:17 –> 01:01:59:11
Do a good job and, but I, you know, I I realize you’ve also got, you know, a support group of guys that can help you out and go along with you and it’s not quite often not going off by yourself. So Yeah. It’s a different dynamic.

01:01:59:22 –> 01:02:27:19
Yeah. Speaking of that, this new age of, of deer hunting and, and making the most of some of these opportunities that seem to, you know, not come around very often and whatnot, but in this information age and, and whatnot, of course, social media and all this crazy, these crazy times that we’re in and trying to raise big bucks at the same time. Like, what do you think the future of mule deer hunting holds versus the information age like and the way it’s gone compared to the way it once was?

01:02:28:19 –> 01:03:40:02
It’s completely changed. It will never be the same. And, you know, good or bad, there’s, there’s some wonderful things about social media. There’s people in my life I would’ve never kept in touch with or kept track of if it wasn’t for social media. It’s really neat to be able to see people from your past and where they’re at and what they’re doing today. I think there’s, for, for hunters, there’s just, the information sharing is just massive out there. And there’s really no secrets. I mean, if, if you guys have a secret up, well more power to you. But I think we could all just sit in a room quietly talking and we’d all be nodding our heads Oh yeah, yeah. That spot. Yeah. That, that area, that unit. There’s, there’s really no secrets out there, you know, it’s just, it, the information age is already passed. And so, you know, there’s, I think with the way Utah’s tag allocations went, and it kind of generated that, for lack of a better term, the posse hunt where you had a bunch of people Yeah. Showing up and, and so I, you know, I, I can understand how some people would be put off with it, but there’s also, you know, you’re talking about people that are friends and family and a rare opportunity and people wanna be a part of it and share the enjoyment of

01:03:40:02 –> 01:03:47:24
It. Well, and they wanna put their hands on something big. And when tags take 15 years or 20 years to draw, it’s, it’s changed that It’s changed.

01:03:47:27 –> 01:04:44:14
Yeah. Well, and it, it, it, you, you brought up Utah and I, I would definitely agree that I think that’s where we’ve seen it maybe spawned, and it, I think it’s because we, we were for a lot of years behind Colorado in terms of the way we decided we wanted to manage our deer. We didn’t go to unit by unit management until a handful of years ago on our general season units. And so we were wanting so much more out of every deer hunt we got to go on, whether it was something we drew or a family member or friend drew on a limited entry unit, we wanted to go be a part of an awesome deer hunt. And frankly, that’s why you in Colorado have dealt with a lot of people from Utah for the last 15 years coming over there. We’ve wanted something more and well, and we’re finally feels like starting to get our general season units. Yeah. There’s no question right now, the last few years are better than, than they’ve been in 20 years in Utah, which

01:04:44:14 –> 01:04:47:17
Is, which helps Colorado. Yeah. And it’s not that there’s not, there’s

01:04:47:17 –> 01:04:48:07
Think that meant with some of

01:04:48:07 –> 01:04:49:05
These, and it’s not that there’s

01:04:49:05 –> 01:04:50:19
Books that guys are pulling out of there. Yeah,

01:04:50:19 –> 01:05:14:14
Yeah. And it’s not that there’s more tags given in Colorado, there’s a finite number of tags, but I think it goes back to the demand for those tags and, and the quality of hunter that’s picking up those tags, whether it be landowner tags or the draw tags or whatnot. And that is changing. You’re seeing more Utah guys. Well, they’re gonna be taken up by somebody. I mean, they don’t just, you know what I mean? They’re gonna divvy out the tags, but it’s a different type of hunter. It’s a different type of hunter. Well,

01:05:14:14 –> 01:05:54:22
There, yeah, there is, you know, what you, you know, from the outside looking in, what I saw in Utah, the evolution of the whole thing was, you know, there’s always a very familial aspect to hunting where, you know, families would go hunt together and, and so, you know, it got restricted so, well, if one person gotta tag, the family’s still going and we’re gonna go have fun and, and do it. So, you know, I appreciate that. And that there’s, there’s nothing wrong with that. I, I think, you know, there we could all pick out examples where, you know, some guy put his grandma in for a tag who’s never hunted in her life, and all of a sudden she’s, you know, got the best elk tag in the, in the state. But, you know, those are, you know, more rare than, than the, than typical for, you know, just anybody drawing a tag.

01:05:54:25 –> 01:06:41:17
And so in Colorado it’s, it’s been a evolution too to, for guys in the state to just come to terms with people understanding what’s here. And it’s, you know, Coloradoans don’t own Colorado. It’s, there’s federal land that we all own, and we’re all US citizens, and this is, you know, yeah. These are animals that everybody’s a part of. So, you know, it’s a, i I get that there’s some territorialism and as a younger man, I experienced some of it too. But, you know, I think as we all get older, we kinda understand what’s important. And, and to me, sharing that experience with friends or family is far more valuable than any set of antlers that I Yeah. Have hanging on the wall. It, to me, it’s really about the experiences at this point in my life and making memories and, and,

01:06:41:29 –> 01:06:45:22
And to do, to make a memory with a 38 and a half inch ain’t so bad either. No.

01:06:46:08 –> 01:06:46:14

01:06:46:14 –> 01:06:47:24
Unfortunately I was by myself.

01:06:49:08 –> 01:06:49:17

01:06:50:09 –> 01:06:57:17
Well, you’re just glad it wasn’t so long ago that, you know, they didn’t have self-timer cameras or whatever else you were able to use, you know, since it

01:06:57:17 –> 01:06:59:11
Was, well, you know, actually I

01:06:59:20 –> 01:07:03:13
35 millimeter, I dunno, was that even hell? What year was that?

01:07:03:16 –> 01:07:25:08
It was right on the edge of the digital age right there. Yeah. In 2006. So I, I still was shooting a 35 millimeter slide Oh wow. Camera and, and I shot, and you know, you, you guys have seen the field photo, it’s kind of dark and it was darker than it looked in that picture. And I shot about oh, 10 or 12 self time shots, and that literally was the only one that came out. Oh. With any degree of sharpness

01:07:25:09 –> 01:07:28:16
Too. Yeah. Now you shoot a couple hundred of ’em in five minutes. Well,

01:07:28:17 –> 01:07:35:16
You can look at the viewfinder and see if it’s taken a good picture. I remember those days. Right. I couldn’t even tell if it was taking a picture and you’re just praying that there’s something, burn the

01:07:35:16 –> 01:07:38:05
Roll up and pray when you dropped it off at Walmart. Yeah,

01:07:39:20 –> 01:07:51:29
Exactly. Let’s talk about, as we wrap up the Mulder section of this podcast, let’s just talk, give, you know, tell us about this book. Tell us about the edge a little bit, you know, your involvement with it right. And what it’s gonna tell us in there.

01:07:52:24 –> 01:07:55:05
Well, David started this project on his own and

01:07:55:05 –> 01:07:55:24
David Long

01:07:55:26 –> 01:08:41:08
Yeah. He called me David Long. Yes. Yep. And he started this project on his own, and he, he called me up last year and he said, listen, I’m, I’m having trouble getting this thing done, and I, I was wondering if you’d be interested in being a part of it. And, you know, we talked about the kind of thing and I, and so, you know, the more we talked, the more I thought it was a good, good idea because, you know, David really spent a lot of his time hunting, really high country Wyoming deer. And then he did some archery stuff here in Colorado. So much of his focus in his hunting world had always been early and high. And a lot of my stuff was labor and low and mid, mid MidCountry transition zones and lower stuff. And so I felt like we could offer something, a product that not many people have seen.

01:08:41:09 –> 01:09:30:20
And, you know, we weren’t gonna replicate what somebody else has done. And I think the collaboration of two guys that have the experience and the pelts on the wall that we do is really something that’s pretty rare. And so we talked about it and, and I just jumped into it last winter with him and started pumping some stuff out and, and we got it published. You know, it was just one of those things that, you know, real life, real jobs, you know, both of us have ’em. And, and so trying to get things done on deadlines was, you know, we got it, oh, I think finally got it from the printer in November, and we had goals of getting it in midsummer, but it just didn’t work, you know, so it was a little late for this year’s hunting season and show season. And so we’re gonna put it, start pushing it a little harder next summer.

01:09:30:22 –> 01:10:04:05
But, you know, I think it really does, there’s some great stories in there and anecdotes of, you know, the success and also the failures that we’ve both experienced. I, you know, as you guys know, there’s as much to be learned from a failure as there is a success Oh yeah. As far as an interaction with a big deer or whatever. And if you learn from your failures, you can apply those in the future and, and really learn from them. And I think, you know, so much of what today is, it’s a thinking man’s game. This muled deer hunting. It’s a, you know, as we all get older, there’s, there’s a group of young guys out there in their twenties and they can walk us into the dirt.

01:10:04:11 –> 01:10:05:05
Oh, no question.

01:10:05:14 –> 01:10:12:24
But, but there’s an advantage of, we have it with him. We, we’ve been doing this stuff for 20 to 30 years and

01:10:12:25 –> 01:10:16:17
They’re still hunting those low opinion junipers where the pink sheds are, Mike, that’s all

01:10:17:00 –> 01:10:17:14

01:10:17:25 –> 01:10:35:05
Just doing what we did, buddy. I walked in circles and walked in circles and tracked bucks down aimlessly. Not, not just didn’t know what I was learning, didn’t know what I was learning. Yeah. And yeah, you know, I think you gotta do that for five to 10 to 15 years, you know? Right. Some people learn a little faster than others. It took me a while

01:10:36:03 –> 01:11:04:04
And I, you know, that that’s one, it’s almost not fair for, you know, a guy to be able to get a, a book like this that David and I have put out because it really shortens learn the learning curve if you’re, if you’re paying attention and you’re willing to do some of the stuff there, it, you know, you, you do have a way of short-cutting some of this learning curve. And, but I will say that it’s, it’s as tough as it’s ever been, and it’s gonna get tougher because of the level of competition out there, of the type of hunter that has evolved.

01:11:04:09 –> 01:11:05:02
Yeah. Well, and

01:11:05:22 –> 01:12:14:10
Being, being fit has become, you know, a standard approach many guys have, you know, it’s, and that’s great. I think guys should be, you know, they should be able to handle it. And you know, I I think you gotta be able to go every day. You do. You do. You know, and that’s where, that’s the difference right there. And you know, as you get older, you, you develop this sense of resiliency where you can push past some of those barriers that, you know, might’ve kept you in camp 20 years ago. Sure. But, you know, you know, not to blow yourself out on day one. And, and there’s just some things that, you know, you rest when your body’s telling you to rest, and, but you, you keep going and you keep spending the time out there. And, and so there’s, you know, it’s, it’s a tough thing for a young man right now to be coming into this mule deer hunting world and, and really have the wants and desires to get something, but it’s as tough as it’s ever been and it’s not gonna get easier. So whatever you could do to separate yourself by learning more skills and, and getting tips from guys that have seen it and done it, it’s a, it’s a pretty handy thing to do. And so this book, I think gives people, you know, a jump on some of that natural learning curve that would occur over two decades. So.

01:12:14:23 –> 01:12:21:11
Well, so I guess, yeah. So at some point, you said this summer you’re gonna, that’ll be much more readily available. You’ll do a push either

01:12:21:12 –> 01:12:39:08
Well, it’s, it’s available. It’s a, you know, on the, the mule deere hunter.com website, it’s in the store, so it’s Gotcha. It’s certainly available, but it’s, you know, we haven’t gone to any shows to try to sell books and, you know, get out in there and shake hands and, and, and trade viruses with people and that kind of thing.

01:12:41:05 –> 01:12:46:29
So anyway, you’re, you’re consumer direct. You’re basically the mule deer hunter dot Yep. Dot com did you say? Or do or

01:12:46:29 –> 01:12:47:05

01:12:47:25 –> 01:12:49:17
Yes. Yeah. Mule deer hunter.com.

01:12:49:19 –> 01:12:51:18
Mule deer hunter.com. Yep. All right. Yep.

01:12:52:03 –> 01:13:00:13
Yep. And so it’s, you know, when you’ve got a real job that, you know, puts a check in your bank account every week, there’s a little less motivation to, to

01:13:00:27 –> 01:13:25:22
Work on this stuff out. Yeah. It doesn’t paying your bills. What about, what’s, what’s next? I mean, you, you alluded to retirement here in the next handful of years. Yeah. And I guess before we switch to some of the other species when it comes to mule deer, we, we know you’ve killed some giant bucks and, but what, is there something, what, do you want to check off a list or is there, or is it

01:13:25:22 –> 01:13:31:01
Just more I need a 40 inch four point, so one and a half inch. Yeah. I wider than what you got. I guess

01:13:31:14 –> 01:13:38:17
Jason needs a big typical, like mine, I need a big non-typical like his, so. Okay. I mean, that’s certainly the bucket list animal. So those

01:13:38:17 –> 01:13:48:01
Just book like a book. Are you a, are you an official score for Benning Cross? Yes, I’m Okay. And so is it like your goal, is it a net book non-typical or is it

01:13:48:05 –> 01:13:50:12
Oh, no, it’s just, it’s just big and ugly. Big.

01:13:50:20 –> 01:13:51:23
I mean, yeah. Alright.

01:13:51:26 –> 01:14:14:05
Yeah. I, to me, at this point, you know, and it’s hard to get big and ugly, you know, or not be big and ugly if you’re 260 or 70 inches. So you know that they kind of go hand in hand right there. But, you know, h h trumps everything masses number two and then, you know, scores number three, so. Yep. You know, I think we all would agree that I agree. The most impressive thing is mass on

01:14:14:05 –> 01:14:17:10
An animal mass and multiple eye guards. Freaky eye guards. Yeah.

01:14:17:25 –> 01:14:19:29
Oh yeah. Yeah. We got a Christmas tree.

01:14:19:29 –> 01:14:22:08
Jason and I both have Igar fetishes. We do,

01:14:22:13 –> 01:14:24:05
We do. Oh, me too. And I,

01:14:24:13 –> 01:14:34:05
Me too. I think I, Steve Alderman had that buck that he had on his, oh, he killed it somewhere up there. And it had a couple of extra brow tin and I’m just, I, I couldn’t care less what the rest of deer look like.

01:14:34:10 –> 01:14:42:29
I’d look at those. Oh. And he teases me. He’s like, I know Carter likes some big old brow tin, but you know, he’s, he’s got that too. He just can’t admit it now, you know? Yeah.

01:14:42:29 –> 01:14:56:25
That other bucket, Brian La Turner from the website killed and he’s, he’s got one of those bucks that the just the crazy big bases brow time stuff and bur nabby bases that, that’s just obscene stuff right there. I I absolutely, that’s my favorite thing.

01:14:57:02 –> 01:15:05:19
My, my net book typical, it’s got four and a half inch I guards and they’re like two inches across, you know, and it’s just wish that got him

01:15:05:19 –> 01:15:06:12
There. I mean,

01:15:06:21 –> 01:15:19:18
Oh, that the I guards, if you had two inch I guards, that’s the other thing we could go into a whole podcast into. You’re a scorer now. Like as far as, you know, what I guards mean on typical score, you know, and how hard it is to net a book typical without I guards. I mean, that’s eight eight. It

01:15:19:18 –> 01:16:01:29
Is really hard. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I, in fact, I, we had one that we hunted back, I think it was 2004. This is kind of a funny story. You’ll get a kick outta this. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna call him out by name and, and it’s okay because he’ll, he’ll appreciate it. But my buddy Dave Martinez, I’ve known him since I first moved to Colorado, and super good guy he is electrician is wired, the houses I’ve built. And, and so I wanted, I really wanted Dave to get a good buck. And so we hiked into this area, me and my buddy Barrett and Dave, and, and we spotted this buck. And he was skanking down this canyon at first light, and he went into this Quay patch and bed it down. And, and so I told Dave, I said, you know, I’ve killed a couple of nice bucks in the last couple years and I don’t really wanna shoot this deer.

01:16:01:29 –> 01:16:43:17
And, and he’s a solid one 90 buck without eye guards. Okay. And 28 inches wide, just beautiful, you know, the kind that, you know, beautiful dirt, it’s really hard to pass him up and, and if you pass him up, you might not shoot another one. So Dave’s like, yeah, yeah, I’m good. I want to get him. And so I said, well, I can make a big circle around him and come in from the backside. I swear to God, he’ll come right across his draw and through this saddle right here in front of us, the, the path of least resistance, that buck will go right through there. So hour and a half later, I’m coming around the backside of this Quay patch. I bumped this buck out and he just, almost like on a string, I told him what to do. And he goes right past Dave Dave’s sitting in the sage brush and the buck goes 75 yards below him.

01:16:43:17 –> 01:17:12:04
Just, he trotted and, and stopped and looked back and trotted again. And I’m, I’m like, I’m waiting for it to happen. And, and the buck just goes over the saddle. I’m like, and I, I remember actually at one point I was yelling at him, he’s right in front of you. Yeah. Half a mile away. I’m yelling at him and he’s not doing anything. I’m like, what in the world is he doing? And so I get up there, I’m like, why didn’t you shoot him? He goes, well, you didn’t want to shoot him. And Barrett didn’t wanna shoot him. And

01:17:12:07 –> 01:17:13:04
So I don’t wanna shoot him. My

01:17:13:04 –> 01:17:14:12
Swear, I probably shouldn’t shoot him either.

01:17:14:20 –> 01:17:18:08
Oh. So, so much for sharing.

01:17:18:09 –> 01:17:23:00
That was one of those classic bucks that it was a boon and Crockett buck without brow time. So Wow.

01:17:23:18 –> 01:17:24:23
They make a, they make a a

01:17:24:23 –> 01:17:28:11
There’s a lot of people listening that said I would’ve shot him. Oh yeah. Take, yeah.

01:17:28:11 –> 01:17:59:28
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Well, yeah. Well, cool. Is there anything else? I mean, I I, I don’t wanna really dive into the sheep and moose on this one ’cause we’ve, this mailer’s been so amazing, but, and it’s taken a lot of time. I want do a whole nother podcast on that. ’cause I know, and I guess we can kind of preface that you’ve really gotten into these moose and sheep and been a part of some of the most amazing animals coming outta the state of Colorado. I don’t know if Yeah, if your love of mule deer is waning a little or if you’re actually just taking on more species or whatever. But

01:18:00:05 –> 01:18:15:06
No, it’s not waning, but it, you know, the hunting just isn’t as good ever since, you know, 2007, 2008, winter. I mean it, you know, the Boone and Crockett entries don’t lie. I mean, people probably have more of a propensity to enter a book buck in a book than they ever have. Yeah,

01:18:15:06 –> 01:18:15:23
You’re right. I’ve,

01:18:15:23 –> 01:19:10:19
It’s easier to do. There’s more people measuring, so Sure. The idea of people killing a few deer and not entering ’em, it just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. Sure. I I’m sure it happens Yeah. To a few, but it’s just not happening. So when you don’t see the numbers there, you know, the Boone and Crockett Barometer is, you know, Boone and Crockett Bucks make up a small percentage of the actual mature bucks harvested. And so when there’s less Boone and Crockett deer, there’s less big bucks being harvested too. So, you know, that, that to me reflects on the overall quality of hunting. We all know there’s still big bucks in just about every unit in the West slope of Colorado, but, you know, they’re harder to get, harder to find. The opportunities are, you know, tags are harder to draw. And it’s, it’s just a tough deal. And, and it’s really interesting how these seasons keep shaping up too. And, you know, global warming’s an entirely different subject, but there’s something really weird about these T-shirt weather hunting seasons keep happening. It’s unbelievable in the west. And, and

01:19:11:01 –> 01:19:12:00
We due for something

01:19:12:05 –> 01:19:13:24
And then we have brutal winters too. Yeah.

01:19:13:24 –> 01:19:21:01
And I teased, I teased about the global warming early on, but it’s like something, something is changing. I don’t know what it’s Right. Call uncle.

01:19:21:05 –> 01:19:52:28
Yeah. So there, there’s something to it. And yeah. And so, you know, accepting the fact that, you know, without weather the hunting can be really tough for big mul deer. Yeah. And it’s just the nature of the beast. And you know what’s interesting is what you guys have probably experienced too, is down there in the Ergon you’ll have deer seasonally move, they’ll shift outta one range to the other just based on the time of the year. Sure. It’s not a storm anymore, it’s a calendar. And then here it’s a calendar. And here in Colorado you could have deer at 10,000 feet and at Thanksgiving. Yep.

01:19:53:01 –> 01:19:56:25
That’s snowed. They’re not going anywhere this year. Yeah. Nope, that’s right. Nope.

01:19:57:09 –> 01:20:26:23
Di just real quick, one last subject and we’ll have covered your entire state. Let’s just tell us a little bit about the eastern plains, you know, and kind of your experience out there. It feels like, obviously it’s a lot of private, majority of it’s private. We’ve seen giants, we, you and I, everybody knows that there’s that potential out there and it’s kind of di depends a lot upon upon the management of a particular ranch and whatnot. But, you know, tell us a little bit about your feelings. You know, far as Eastern

01:20:26:23 –> 01:21:25:01
Plains, I’m very familiar with the Eastern plains, partially because a good friend of mine is Aaron Nielsen. I’ve known Aaron for 20 years and he’s outfitted out there on the eastern plains. And you know, we’ve talked extensively about the bucks out there. Sure. The one thing the eastern plains can produce really big deer, but not high Boone and Crockett net scoring deer. So they, they typically can be nice big typicals with a short fork or no brow ties or missing a brow tie, extra points and Yeah. You know, they’re gross scoring, you know, 200 plus deer, but very few of ’em, net Boone and Crockett and the ones that do are usually non typicals. Yeah. So, and another thing to go along with that is assuming that most of the hunting out there, the quality is gonna be leased up by outfitters. And the idea of you think you’re gonna knock on doors and get access to some untapped big mul deer hunting. It’s a, that’s a fantasy. I mean, it’s generally just not gonna happen. So if you’re serious about hunting the out eastern plains, you just need to start looking at outfitters and seeing and

01:21:25:01 –> 01:21:25:10
Get on a way

01:21:25:21 –> 01:22:03:23
What where Yeah. And yeah. And so, you know, along with that, you know, everybody wants a, a one 90 to 200 inch deer when they hunt out east. So for every one 190 inch deer, there’s a bunch of other 1 75 bucks that clients take. Sure. And so are, are you gonna be the guy that kills the one 90 or the 1 75? Well that’s, there’s dumb luck right there. And so understanding you’re not going to kill a giant just behind ’cause you hunt with an outfitter that kills giants and it’s just, there’s, there’s luck involved and, and just like anything but it, but it is a good way for a guy with a, without the physical abilities to kill a really nice deer.

01:22:03:28 –> 01:22:05:11
That’s some good books, some great bucks. Yeah.

01:22:05:15 –> 01:22:20:19
Well, what I also, what I also heard you say is, is maybe not as great a chance to kill a book typical, but, but the book Deer have been non-typical, so maybe you ought to focus your efforts out there, Mike, and talk with Jason and I about where you’re killing these giant typicals.

01:22:20:19 –> 01:22:22:18
Mike, I wanna hunt the west side where the big typical are. Yeah,

01:22:22:18 –> 01:22:22:24

01:22:22:24 –> 01:22:23:12
Stay out here. You hunt the

01:22:23:12 –> 01:22:26:14
Eastern place. Yeah, unfortunately all my extra money’s gone towards the stone sheep.

01:22:26:27 –> 01:22:30:26
Okay. Alright. I’m just trying to, I was gonna, I was gonna just meet in the middle there.

01:22:31:21 –> 01:22:42:13
Well, and I, and I remember that Rod Linton and Ralph Ska and they killed there, but Oh, sure. You know, those guys killed bucks that I was like, I need to go out on the Eastern plains, you know? Yeah.

01:22:42:14 –> 01:22:52:19
And you know, Rod’s a I know a friend of mine, Jeff Demsky is Sure, knows Rod. And so I’ve heard, you know, rod just didn’t do it one year. Oh, I know. He’s spends a heck of a lot of time, time out,

01:22:52:26 –> 01:22:54:12
Out doing it. Yep, yep.

01:22:54:14 –> 01:23:02:20
Yeah. And so he’s well connected with locals and, and has access to places that he, and he drives around all summer long looking for big deer. And so there’s, that’s

01:23:02:20 –> 01:23:03:07
What it takes in the place.

01:23:03:08 –> 01:23:06:22
You know, even in a situation like that, he’s, he’s putting the effort in that most people couldn’t

01:23:06:22 –> 01:23:18:00
Do. Just like, you know what, what I do in Nevada, what you’re doing in your country, what Bronson’s doing. I mean, that’s what you’re finding, you know? Yeah. The guys in Arizona, all these guys you got just, yeah.

01:23:18:00 –> 01:23:27:23
My buddy Eric Hunt down there in Arizona, he, he’s always hunting really good bucks, archery hunting. And it’s not because it’s a special spot, it’s because he puts a time, he learns it a heck of a lot of time into it.

01:23:27:27 –> 01:24:03:20
And I think that’s like kind of the resounding, you know, what the takeaway from this podcast again, and we’ve, we’ve talked about it a lot on prior podcasts, but it’s, you know, obviously you gotta hunt where Big Deer are, so you gotta put the time where Big Deer arf and, and, and that’s obvious, but I think the biggest thing is time. You can read a book, you can, you can look at our magazine that we publish each month, and you can do all of these things, but at some point, you know, you do have to, you do have to leave the house for an extensive period of time and be a hundred percent dedicated to it, or just rely on the rutt and get lucky. And that, and that happens too.

01:24:04:01 –> 01:24:47:25
It’s hard to have time. I mean, it’s, you know, the reality of, of the world and kids and family and, you know, it’s Yeah. You can’t dedicate so much time that, you know, you lose your family along the way. Yeah. There’s guys that do that too. It’s, that’s just crazy. It’s, and so for me, I’m super fortunate to have been hired on as a firefighter and, you know, you know, I’m not saying that to brag. I’m saying that that that has a lot to do with my success and it has to do with the fact that I have time off and extended blocks. Sure. And same thing with Eric Hunt. We’ve, you know, Eric’s a good buddy of mine and he’s the same way. He’s got time off to, to go do this kind of stuff and there’s no substitute for time. And you know, I I would say if any young aspiring mul deer hunters try to get hired on the fire department,

01:24:49:09 –> 01:24:50:01
The key to the kingdom

01:24:50:06 –> 01:24:50:20
Right there,

01:24:51:06 –> 01:24:54:29
Firefighters kill big bucks. That’s what I’m hearing. That’s what I’m hearing. Well, and it’s, it’s just, oh,

01:24:54:29 –> 01:24:56:10
Steve Stayner did it, you know?

01:24:56:11 –> 01:25:25:18
Oh, he did? Yeah. Geez. We might have to just podcast name. Yeah. We might just do firefighter podcasts. Yeah, there you go. No, it’s true. And that’s the way Bronson and I are too. We work dang hard this time of year. Of course. You know, our magazine we did monthly from December through June and then bimonthly in the fall when there’s not a lot of statistics. You know, we’re, we’re just not willing to give up that time. We’ve gotta be in the field. And so, you know, that’s a, that’s a, that’s our success is reliant on time, so

01:25:25:29 –> 01:25:56:01
Yeah. Yeah. And that, you know, as far as Colorado, it’s just, you know, there’s always an evolution of what’s going on. You know, this is a nothing static, it’s dynamic. You know, the, the weather changes, the hertz change, the pressure changes, the rules change. You know, there’s just new rules this year where we’re gonna, you know, it’s gonna make it, I think, easier for people to apply. And I think you’re gonna see more applications and Oh yeah. You know, this pop the population in this state is just exploded. You know, I moved here in 88, I think there was a million and a half then, and there’s over 3 million now. And

01:25:56:12 –> 01:25:59:23
They all wanna smoke dope legally, Mike, they all wanna smoke dope legally.

01:26:00:26 –> 01:26:01:02

01:26:01:16 –> 01:26:01:23

01:26:02:13 –> 01:26:03:19
Not for three and a half years though.

01:26:04:05 –> 01:26:06:28
Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

01:26:07:14 –> 01:26:29:06
Well, we, we appreciate your time and like Jason alluded, Mike, there’s so much more we could talk with you about in terms of, you know, the sheep and moose and, and, and anything else, your personal sheep hunting. Not just stuff you’ve, you’ve done and dug up for clients and friends there in Colorado, but yeah. Aspirations you stolen and all the other stuff. We can, let’s, let’s plan on doing this again soon. ’cause

01:26:29:19 –> 01:26:37:22
Yeah, we want to dive into a whole nother, whole nother facet of your life and what you’re, what you’ve got going on that side. ’cause I know you’ve been a part of some amazing critters for

01:26:37:22 –> 01:26:42:17
Adam. I know, I think he said he didn’t really care about hunting Shamu. I either read it or he told me

01:26:42:22 –> 01:26:44:19
You probably read it. I have max points.

01:26:44:26 –> 01:26:53:18
I gotta tell you, man, that, that hunting those big bulls, and that is one of the coolest things I’ve ever done. I I could, I could do that every year. Well, I’m not kidding you. It’s,

01:26:53:20 –> 01:27:12:02
And, and Jason, I talk about things like that a lot around the office of species like that antelope might fall into that same category and then all of a sudden out of complete nowhere, I drew an Arizona unit 10 antelope tag in 2016 and they aren’t the most important things to me. But all of a sudden,

01:27:12:07 –> 01:27:13:14
No, you gain a respect. Wow.

01:27:13:23 –> 01:27:27:19
And I go down there, look around, I’m like, I’ve got the chance to kill a really pretty good one without really knowing. Yeah. I don’t, I’m not an antelope guru and anything that is, is big. Anything like, whether it be respect for a smoke moose. Yeah. Giant terribly.

01:27:27:19 –> 01:27:33:13
Yeah. I happen to live in some of the best shy risk moose hunting in the world right now, but so it’s a yes handy right there. And well I

01:27:33:13 –> 01:27:56:29
Help buddy killed the and you dropped me. Yeah. You dropped me a picture here and there and I’m like, even though again, you know, I’ve killed one in Idaho and it wasn’t a great one. I was trying to get, we, Adam and I, Adam was with me actually, and we were trying to get to Arizona to kill a big deer and so we couldn’t get out there fast enough. Didn’t give it the time it needed, but you do gain a respect for him. You dropped me a pitch here and there and I’m like, Ooh, that’s a pretty good bull. Yeah, it does get you excited for a minute.

01:27:57:13 –> 01:28:01:12
Anything old and big, whatever species can get your attention.

01:28:01:14 –> 01:28:16:25
Some things aren’t afraid of anybody, you know, down here they’ve never experienced wolves or grizzly, so they’re literally not afraid of anything. So I’ve had my stuff scared pretty bad by moose when I’ve been out there goofing off. And those cows in the spring are just absolutely terrifying to me. I just don’t want anything to do with them.

01:28:17:11 –> 01:28:21:16
Well, picture a little five foot six feller then instead of a six eight guy.

01:28:21:16 –> 01:28:34:25
Yes. Picture a six footer versus a six eight, you know, we feel pretty small out there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right, Mike, well we sure appreciate you on this. We’re, dude, we do wanna, you know, cover the sheep and moose with you and you got a whole nother side to you.

01:28:35:24 –> 01:28:38:22
Yeah. We gotta cover these over the counter bulls in Colorado.

01:28:38:25 –> 01:28:43:05
You’ve, you been knocked one Yeah. And you’ve been knocking giants down doing that too.

01:28:44:00 –> 01:28:44:08

01:28:44:20 –> 01:29:09:04
I think that’s, that’s pretty interesting. I think that’s a testament to what we were talking about earlier is really, you know, excelling what in what’s close to you, you know, and Yeah. And just bringing it home versus being scattered across all the way. I have a tendency, I don’t want, I want to hunt every state and do this and do that and, and I have killed some good bucks across the west and, and been fortunate that way. But there is something to be said for really doing, you know, excelling to whatever, wherever you’re at.

01:29:09:11 –> 01:29:26:00
Yep. Knowledge and being able to put the time in. Those are, you know, those to me, I had take those over a, a special tag ’cause that’s just, that’s a different deal. Well, most special tags, I’d still take an Arizona strip tags and we’d, we’d form a posse and yeah, we

01:29:26:00 –> 01:29:30:12
Would, yes, we would, we’d go down there and you’d kill your book. Non-typical maybe.

01:29:31:02 –> 01:29:31:19
There you go.

01:29:31:19 –> 01:29:37:02
Yeah. So anything else you wanna kind of drop any info or anything fun for the listeners to hear?

01:29:37:25 –> 01:30:24:08
You know, i, I just say for people wanting to hunt big mule deer, it’s like, be realistic. You’re gonna have to put in your time and be lucky. So, you know, it’s just not, it’s just not an easy thing. It’s, you know, there’s a reason why it’s so special when you do get one, when you walk up to one of those big old stinky books in November and, and you know, you run touch him for the first time and run your hands down his hair and grab those knobby bases. It’s a, it’s a feeling that is just incredible. And when you’ve put in that time, when you’ve really applied yourself for years and years and, and I did and, and you, and it finally happens. I mean, it it gives me goosebumps right now just talking about it. It’s just so special. Yeah. So I’d say just don’t give up and, and keep making the effort and hopefully the people that really want it, it’ll happen for ’em.

01:30:24:18 –> 01:31:10:22
Well, we sure appreciate it, Mike. Just wanna let everybody know we are crunching data for the Colorado issue, which is our March magazine. It’ll cover all the, you know, some of the, you know, good portion of the Mule deer units as well as elk, sheep, moose and, and goat and antelope and whatnot. So anyway, that will be coming out soon. Adam and I are working early morning and of course today’s the Arizona Elk deadline, so, you know, we’ll have a lot of that and we’re doing today as well. But anyway, it’ll be coming out soon. And then if you have any other questions regarding any state applications or, or strategies or whatnot, feel free to call us here at Epic. Want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast and, and all that they’re doing for us here at Epic Outdoors. And we’ll kind of go from there. Thanks again, Mike. You’re awesome. Appreciate

01:31:10:22 –> 01:31:11:24
It, Mike. Yeah, thanks for making

01:31:11:24 –> 01:31:13:06
You’re very welcome. Thanks for having me. It was

01:31:13:06 –> 01:31:18:25
Fun. We’ve enjoyed watching your success over the years and so we know it’s gonna continue and we’ll have ya on here soon. Soon.

01:31:18:25 –> 01:31:22:07
Yeah. Let’s talk sheet news elk soon. So thanks a lot. Alright,

01:31:22:07 –> 01:31:56:13
Thanks Mike. For those of you that are interested in the, the, the Edge, the book published by David Long and Mike Duplan, go to the mul deer hunter.com, the mul deer hunter.com, I believe it’s 29, 9 5 or 30 bucks, and they’ll ship direct right to your house. So anyway, I’m sure it’s a great read. I have yet to get my hands on a copy, but I’ll definitely be ordering one. Just wanna encourage anybody who wants to learn more about Mulder, nothing better than having a lot of information dropped in one book, the mulder hunter.com 30 bucks.