EP 66: Applying in Nevada, Montana, and Kansas with Jason Carter and Adam Bronson. In this episode of the Epic Outdoors Podcast Jason and Adam sit down and go through the April issue of Epic Outdoors Magazine. The April issue covers Nevada, Montana, and Kansas.

Disclaimer: this podcast has been transcribed from the original audio and likely contains errors. This transcription does not reflect the views and opinions of Epic Outdoors LLC. Please consult the original audio with any concerns.

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Montana is a little bit different. They actually tell you these are the units and non-res it’s gonna apply for

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The desert. Sheep seasons have been extended to January 1st, kind of cool. What

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Were the odds last year and was their non-res and applicants

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Anything to do with Western Big Game?

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Adam Bronson, along with Chris Peterson sitting at the computer making sure everything’s recorded just perfectly coming at you from Cedar City Sushi Capital of the world. Huh? Bronson had some sushi today.

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All these people from the coastal states are laughing about us inland people claiming that we got the sushi capital,

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The world. Well they think that we don’t. We don’t have any culture here and that’s just not true. Well,

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Frozen fish over our ice, that’s what we’re

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Eating. We get sick every other day we go there. So anyway, before we jump in the middle of it all, we do want to think Under Armour not as good as Chris. Chris always says Powered by Under Armour. But anyway, it is powered by Under Armour and we appreciate them and their support. We’ve been using their gear for a lot of years and we appreciate them and all that they do for us here at Epic as well as our membership. Did want to highlight one of the pieces of, of their gear, the boot that I wear dang near every day is a fat tire boot. We wore it at the expo. It’s nice ’cause it’s just got a little quick clasp. There’s no shoelaces or anything to tie up. So anyway, it’s nice, it’s awesome. Very comfortable. Feels like you’re walking on pillows. But anyway, awesome for early season hunting antelope, early season archery deer and things like that.

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But anyway, I have fell in love with the boot and I wear it nearly every day. So anyway, we also wanted to kind of highlight the winner of our last giveaway was Matley. He won a pair of fat tire boots, an epic high and an epic knife from Outdoor Edge. So anyway, that was awesome. Appreciate him. Good luck with all that free gear. And if we remember, we’re gonna give something away at the end of this podcast. So Adam and I just wanted to kinda come at you today a little bit different angle. Highlight the April, 2018 issue. It’s volume three, issue four of the Epic Outdoors Magazine. Those you don’t know. We do a hunting magazine, it’s once a month, December through June, and then it’s bimonthly after that. ’cause we’re out hunting, you’re out hunting. And the statistics for the most part are over with.

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So these really, we really highlight, highlight the state draws what to apply for, when to do it, and how to do it and, and the different seasons and species and all kinds of options. And do it in a manner which you can look at it, apply for yourselves and get cranking. If you don’t have time to do it, of course we do it for you and we have a service for that. In addition to the a hundred dollars membership, a hundred dollars membership, you can call in any time we answer phone calls all the time from people that have questions about applying across the west. So anyway, in this particular issue, which came out yesterday, we had it done for a couple days, just kind of holding onto it a little bit, but we did publish it. It’s out there on our Epic Outdoors website, epic outdoors.com. You can go log in and check it out. And of course it’ll be in print at your doorstep hopefully very soon. Pretty

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Important to mention that, Jason, because April issue, Nevada’s always one of those states that has a mid-month application deadline. It’s a lot of states have it the end of the month, the first of the month, something like that. But Nevada comes at us earlier, AP April 16th. So it’s gonna perhaps be key for you, jump online, strategize application period. Just opened up. Yeah. And so you can apply, got our little postcards in the mail that help you remind us all. So it’s e mags up and, and working online. I encourage you to go check it out and we’ll break it down the best we can here for you today as well. Yeah,

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In this magazine we’ve also got Kansas. Just more like an alert. It’s pretty short section of course. We talk about Whitetails and, and muer and, and the drawing odds for both and as well as like the Muer stamp and the ins and outs of that. And so we cover that one as well as the sheep, moose, goat, bison and antelope in Montana.

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Yep. Those are do May 1st for those species. We also do cover the antelope for Montana. That isn’t due until June 1st, but we’ll get into those in just a minute. Just maybe as a little bit of an overview as well as maybe some things to be heads up on Wyoming game. And Fish has their formal grizzly bear hunting regulation, proposed hunting regulations out on their website. If you look at my article at the front, Adam Bronson, I just did kind of a spring, you know, alert. I, I detailed some of the information in there that’s at leased out for proposal right now. They’re accepting public comment for through the end of April. I highly encourage every listener to go take advantage of going to Wyoming Game Fish website and provide positive feedback as to it’s about time themed message to, to hunt grizzlies. Again, they were de-listed from a threatened species last summer, Wyoming game.

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And Fish has pushed forward with proposing season dates application period. This July gonna be obviously tightly regulated. We’re not gonna just turn everybody loose with grizzly bears tags, but, but it’s a start much like it was with wolves at some point. And, and so we highly applaud their efforts for doing that. We know they’re gonna get plenty of feedback and comment from anti hunters and everybody else right now. So go to Wyoming game fish’s website, w gfd.w.gov, click on the get involved public meetings link to view the proposed and grizzly bear hunting regulations. Again, those are due, you can do ’em online, you can print it and mail it in if you want. But really easy just to do an online web survey there by April 30th. Then on April, or sorry, May 23rd, Wyoming Game Fish Commission will meet and ratify the hunting regulations for Grizzly Bear for the fall of 2018. And so pretty big deal. Haven’t been, been off the docket since 1975, which is, I don’t know, maybe that was long

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Time when

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We were young pups. Let’s

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Just put it very young. Very young. Maybe even in diaper. Well maybe just in the womb, I don’t know. Very, very, very, very young. And so anyway, you may provide your comments like Adam said by April 30th. We encourage you to do that. Anyway, there is that survey, it’s w gfd.wild.gov/wd web survey and provide your comments. And so anyway, you know, it is gonna be about six grand for a non-resident

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Tax. Six, $600 for residents, 6,000 for a non-resident. So there’s gonna, and, and just to point out this so you don’t flood their inbox with why are you so expensive? The, the legislature set those, this public comment period right now, those proposed fees are not up for

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Negotiation. They’re

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Not gonna change. Don’t for this year.

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Don’t, don’t bombard ’em with it. They’re screwing the non-resident, not

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That. Yeah, we realize that seems very high and excessive. It is, which it is. So, but the legislature set those if and one they’re ever, ever gonna be hunted again. And right now game and fish can’t just lower those and change those for this false hunt. So they’re really looking at the, the regulation in general. Quotas, sub quotas, female sub quotas. You can read about that. But more or less they just need s positive feedback regarding, you know, hunting grizzly bears, again, under a limited draw system.

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So if we’re to tell you what to write in there, say, I love the fact we’re gonna hunt grizzlies, don’t say anything else but that we plot it, support it, and we want it. And so anyway, six grand does seem high, but you know what? That tag might be worth three grand done punch, just put, you know, put on a plaque or something. It’s one of the first ones given in how long? Pretty awesome. So,

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Well if you draw one and don’t kill one Jason, I’m not paying you three grand for

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It. What if it’s tag number one? No tag number one. No. Huh? No. All right. So anyway, we are kind of excited about that. We’ll see. It’ll be interesting. The outfitters, we probably probably give up a little bit of a new rev revenue source for a few outfitters being able to guide one of those and you know, we know there’s plenty of guys seeing ’em. We’ve even seen ’em when we’ve been out in the field too. So

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Just wanted to acknowledge the awesome ram on the cover that we have here.

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Yeah, what an awesome round 195 inch. If I don’t rem if I remember right, Mike Folia to gets a pair of Vortex 15 by 56 for being on the cover. We appreciate them. We got some awesome covers picked out for the rest of the year. Big, big stuff. And so anyway, we’re, we’re pretty excited about that. And so let’s

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Dive into Nevada.

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All right, one of my favorite states, Nevada, of course a lot of you guys know that it was one of my favorites until, well, and it still is. But they did come out with the real drawing ons, which show everybody all five choices and how tough our drawing odds really are. And anyway, it was out there. We kind of heard about how tough the odds were once we actually dove in and realized how tough they were. It is a little bit sobering. It’s sobering. And so they do have a, you know, while I’m on that subject, I mean just because a couple of my buddies, including myself, have turned back tags in the past. You can turn ’em back and get all your points back. And we’ve done it, got our friends have done it. You should never turn a tag back in Nevada. They are tough to get, no matter how many points you have. They do have a point system. You, they square ’em and so you never guaranteed anything. You got more names in the hat. I mean we’re upwards of 20 points for desert sheep never drawn and, and not sure when we’ll draw. And so that is one of the most asked questions is how long does it take to get a tag?

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How can you pick in Nevada? And you can’t, you can’t predict it. One thing definitely worth pointing out, we did portray those one through five draw odds choices in the magazine this year. Unique. So we decided to, since this is their new way of giving us data, the drawing odds, comparing it the last five years to first choice only really wasn’t apples to apples. So we’ve just got the new drawing odds for 2017 in there. Keep in mind it shows application choices by hunt code for one through five. What you, what you can’t tease out of that is did a guy lift his fifth choice but he drew his first or second, right, third or fourth And whether he really was in the draw for that hunt or not. So some of that goes on guys that draw their proceeding choice and versus a unit they listed as a third, fourth or fifth, they’re gonna be counted on there. Which they may not have actually been competition for you in the draw. The other thing that doesn’t take into consideration is your bonus points squared. They square your points in Nevada Square and plus one. That’s how many names you get, quote or chances you get for the computer to draw you a really good random number

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For every single species. Yep, yep. All. So, so it is tough. And so that’s the one thing you can’t quantify on paper, what the odds in there show you. Number of people, number

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Of people. Put that one through five. It gives you a much more probably close reflection of reality than just first choice. No question the answer somewhere in between as far as exact. And, and the draw only dictates that year to year as people draw one through five choices. But that’s a big change. Anything else noteworthy, Jason? I guess the kids,

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Yeah, there’s a few things. They’ve got the

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Kids’ license is kind of kids license

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Changed. We’re now down to 15 bucks and I have been supporting Nevada game and Fish probably by ourselves solely with all our kids, extended families, thousand who knows thousand bucks, you

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Know, for five of of you it’s over the grant.

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So that’s what we’ve been doing to gain our kids’ points and now we’re at 15 bucks. Thank you Nevada. We appreciate it anyway. And so it does allow you to apply your kids non-resident youth. We can’t participate in the re the youth resident program per se like on Deere, but we do have a little price break. They’re still in for the adult licenses, so awesome deal. And they also have the adult tag fees as well for youth. So no real break on that. But that, that dang, you know, non-resident or non-refundable hunting license, which now includes fishing and all kinds of crazy stamps is now 155 bucks. Which that’s a little bit of a change. Slight jump from 142 last year, but not a huge deal. And so

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Saves saves you 140 bucks per kid. That’s a big deal.

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That’s a big deal. And so the other, the other kind of big change, they did go to a new licensing system company and I think they’re out of Texas anyway, they’ve been working with them at first. It’s a little frustrating. We all get frustrated with change. Nobody likes change. I get that, but it’s not that bad. Once you get on, you’re gonna create your account, you’re gonna go over on the left hand side, you can click on applications or points or whatever and see what you’ve got going when you apply. It’s not set in stone. You can make all kinds of adjustments free of charge up until

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The deadline

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Click point and click change. And, and I love changing my mind and, and I love the fact that it’s free. So every day I can, I can dream

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About something, sleep on it and

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Change and come back in and make a change. And so anyway, did that a little bit during the, the

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Unique thing that you’re, yeah, the unique thing that you’re gonna have to do is worth pointing out is you’re gonna have to have a unique email address for every member of your family. Yeah. And that’s gonna be similar to some of these other states portal accounts we’ve had. You know, maybe Montana, Colorado, all whatnot. So it comes into play. If you’re playing you and your wife and three or four kids on there and you’ve all been using yours,

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Your kids got an email address. He doesn’t tell you what it is, but just get it from him, use it. And we’ll go from there.

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Once you log in, you can go back to the notifications email in their profile and put your personal email as far as the one that gets the receipts and whatnot. But you have to set it up with a unique email address.

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I don’t know how you remember all that. I, I remember writing it, but I don’t remember it so well.

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I just remember doing it. Oh, so all right. Alright. When I went up and set ’em up portals. Yeah. I’m like, I want all my, I don’t want drawing odds going to elementary schools and high school emails and blocked and

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Spams. My mine are, they’re going to s u success academy.org. I some stupid thing. Don’t want anyway want, but all right, so non-resident mountain goat, it has been closed for 2018. So nothing there. You can’t even gain points when it’s closed. It’s closed. There’s no points for non-residents or anybody for doing that except for the residents obviously. ’cause they still have a few tags. The desert sheep seasons have been extended to January 1st. Kind of cool. Most people were done anyway, but nevertheless, you do get a little more time for those retired guys to get to do whatever they want because they’re now retired by the way.

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Yeah. It gives you 11.

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I am hopped up on Monster. This purple is is different than white.

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I’m tingling. I’ve been

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I I’m sorry. I am

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Tmmi Carter. Let’s just move right along.

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So anyway, ah, there is a shed season now, kind of a bummer. People can’t go over there and gather up shed antlers and so everybody’s coming to Utah. Finally, you know, people from Utah used to go to Colorado and Nevada. Now they don’t want us. So anyway, here we are. We’re dealing with a shed season over there. Now starting May 1st you can go hunt sheds over there wherever you want. Other than that you, you know, if you want hunt before May 1st, you’re gonna have to pick a different county. ’cause there’s only certain counties that have the season. Kinda weird social loaf, I guess just a social deal. Want to kind of block us out. They do have a non-resident guide draw for deer. It, it’s kind of similar to New Mexico. It’s kind of a separate little opportunity for people who are gonna go guided for deer rifle hunters only. No non-resident guide draw for elk or sheep or anything else. So anyway, it’s a separate set aside. Set number of tags. The deadline this past month was March 9th was the deadline. If you do that one, you can’t go into the main draw for Deere and vice versa. But points are good for either or This year you could go for the guide draw next year, the regular draw

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Results will actually be out this coming Friday.

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That’s kind of enough of the details. We got so many little, let’s

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Get into the species

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Ticky tech crap. There’s, you know, rifle, you know what you can use for rifle and things like that. What’s the

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Broad head diameter in regulation in Nevada?

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I don’t know, probably seven eights if I had to guess. But anyway, you can for muzz leaders you do, you know, you can’t use scopes. That’s kind of a big deal. So just, it’s for primitive, which I like, honestly, I’m gonna put a plug in here. I’m tired of muzzle or seasons being fully basically rifle hunts that are in September. That’s just my personal take. I think it should be primitive and it would help your drawing odds, it would help deer live elk live, things like that. But that’s just my take. So take it for what it, take it for what it is. Why don’t we jump into Sheep Bronson?

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Yeah. Nevada, it’s hard not to talk about desert sheep. They, they issue more non-resident desert sheep tags than all the other western states combined. Having said that, 30 to 30, 30 or four a year is what they’ll give. The odds are still sheep odds. Doesn’t mean that your odds are great. They do give more than every other state and their odds are better than a lot of other states, but they’re still tough to get. Look at our tables, there’s choices one through five. You’ll definitely see some units that are, you know, had one in a thousand plus applicants others that were in this, you know, four, 500 range. That’s about as good as it gets, you know, one in four to 500 if I’m not mistaken.

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Oh yeah, I’m seeing here 2 62 1 and 3,331. Okay,

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So you know, some of the better units in the state, you know, like 2 68, 2 60 twos, 2 63, they’re, they’re tough to get. They’re, they’re, they’re tough, they’re rough. They got big grams and everybody wants them in the past and, and even probably more so now more people will put one or two or three of those as your first one to two, three choices and then follow ’em up with maybe some easier draw hunts that you would be happy to take, you know, on the two elevens or twelves or thirteens or some of that type of stuff. That’s, that’s generally better drawing odds. But there’s something for everybody in Nevada as a general rule, not physically d difficult hunts for the desert sheep they occur in, for the most part, there’s a few exceptions to these early seasons. They’ve added a couple for residents and that and I think what, 1 73 and 1 61, but they’re early, but 90% of ’em are in November now till January 1st.

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Like Adam said, some of these two twelves, two elevens be a little better odds, keep in mind better we’re talking one in five hundreds. Yeah, one in 700. Very frustrating from our perspective. And get, and keep in mind this doesn’t take into bonus points if you got 20 points, you’re getting ’em squared, you know, and so there’s a lot more names in the obviously, but the guy with nineteens not far behind you and the guy with 20 ones ahead of you. So you know, you’re, we’re just saying basic relative in in relative to the number of actual people playing. And so this is one of these things where, you know, we’ve looked at these odds and, and it’s the only state I know of where they actually look at all five choices before they go to the next guy. And we would like to see that change it. If you went to one or two choices and, and guys were only eligible for one or two choices, these drying odds would be astronomically better.

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It segregate some to the people would choose, I want only the vest, they would only have to stick to their one or two best and couldn’t follow it up with some that are slightly less than that. And similarly on sheep, everybody, even if you’re a better a hot sky, a lot of guys are putting in these, why wouldn’t you? Yeah, there’s no reason not to. Yeah, if your number gets picked, you’re gonna want a 2 63 or eight or 2 62 something down there on the, but I

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Gotta accept a 2 11, 2 12 something a little bit off the wall, you

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Know? So I dunno, we, we would be a proponent of that just simply because I think you see a lot more segregation and if you’re willing to accept an archery hunt and a marginal unit or an archery hunt period, or a muzzle loader hunt period as you’re one and only choice or two and only, you’re gonna have better odds. Now when people are listening to that as a fourth or fifth choice, because they’re doing all the rifle hunts in the same units first ahead of them, they’re adding nos. It’s, it’s affecting you. It’s adding pools of applicants.

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It’s well, and basically you’re getting a piece of the drawing ons for five choices. So, you know, you get just a little sliver of hope in five different choices instead of actual good, fairly good drawing on so near my home in some unit that I’m willing to accept if I live in Elco, most likely, you know, if I can do five choices, I might be applying for ely hunts for elk or deer or whatnot. Even though I I, if I drew great, I get to go down there and hunt a giant, but I would accept something near my home if you actually made ’em choose one place, you know, one unit or two, two choices they would probably apply near their home, whether it be Elco, over to Reno, whatever. And so it, it’s, it’s a big deal.

00:20:28:24 –> 00:21:04:17
Yeah. And if you, I guess think about it this way, when it comes to sheep, if you have, I think there’s 20 units open to non-residents this year, and if everybody, most people, let’s say you two five, you’ve got the whole pie of non-resident applicants applying for a quarter of the units. Five outta 20. That’s right. They’re doing a quarter of the pie, alright? Versus one choice, you’re doing one 20th that’s right of the pie. Or one 10th if you do two choices. That’s, that’s what we’re talking about in terms of you’re competing against every, that quarter is overlapping a lot more hunts than a 10th or a 20th would be that’ss, right? So pick, pick what you want.

00:21:05:08 –> 00:21:51:01
So you know, Nevada, you know, they’re not happy with this either. The residents aren’t happy with it either. I mean, you look at it and you go, well I could, they’re dealing with the same kind of problem we are. They could have one in 10 drawing odds instead of one in 40. And so anyway, it’s quite interesting with these desert sheep. Adam and I have hunted them, guided it a little bit. We haven’t hunted ’em ourselves. We’re sitting with a lot of points and we would never miss a, an application on ’em. But they’re awesome. They’re in a time of year, I mean you’re generally November 20th there is a, an early opener like 1 73, which is quite cool, a new change 1 73 north, they split it this year. So it’s a September 5th. October 5th, it’s early season high country. You’re gonna be working, it’s, you’re gonna be, you’re gonna be backpacking, not not the end of the world.

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You probably set up camp at about 10,000 feet and then you’re gonna hunt upwards of 11, a little bit scarce on the water up high. So you’re gonna have to pack in some water camp down where there’s, you know, a little more water and then, and then day hunted after that. But anyway, plenty of sheep and, and I talked to one of the main biologists had a tag last year and he really enjoyed it. You know, hunted grouse, all kinds of things. Saw rams, could even glass ’em from the valley floor and then took off. But anyway, that early season allows you not to, to have a less chance of harsh weather. Shouldn’t be too cold even though it’s high elevation. Although it will get chilly at times, especially toward the end of that season. So anyway, it’ll be interesting. You’re generally talking one fifties, one sixties type ram. And so it’ll be interesting, it’ll be just a great hunt for some people that are willing to work dang hard. Of course you could take horses in there or whatnot, but, but overall, you know, I think good, you know, good backpacker can do just fine in there. So, but generally it’s November 20th, there’s not a lot else going on November 20th, what a fun time of year. It’s, I mean T-shirt weather weather’s really

00:22:52:00 –> 00:23:54:18
Nice weather. It’s nice weather. We’ve had it colder than you’d think sometimes, but overall it’s a nice place. It’s, it’s why, you know, I’m usually, if I’m guiding some sheep, sheep hunters here in Utah usually allows me to jump down the I 15 head to the warmer country and take a few more in November if I can. Anybody that wants a desert sheep should be applying there. You n you’re not gonna draw one if you don’t apply. And if you’re gonna apply for deer and elk and sheep or one species, do multiple species in Nevada to get more bang for the buck outta buying that license. So Nevada does have California big horns as well. This is, you know, from what we were talking about a minute ago, there’s only four units open to non-residents, right? And so the odds, the best odds are one in 3,600 and the worst odds are one in 6,700. So that’s an example of almost everybody putting in for all four units, you know, and you know one, you know one unit is one in 3000, the other ones are all over one in 5,700. Well that’s

00:23:54:18 –> 00:24:03:28
Because it has two tags. Yes. You know, so you’re splitting the odds in half basically be double that and it’s the best unit in the state has the best odds, but it’s because there’s two tags in that one and only one in the other.

00:24:04:03 –> 00:24:35:05
So more or less everybody’s putting in for the same ones that’s a, you know, you got one in five or 6,000 for a California that’s unbelievable, terribly odd, terrible odds. Yeah. Yeah. And so just kind of, you know, I’m not saying they improved dramatically if you had to pick one in that instance, but though you for 15 bucks, you can add that the Rocky Mountain Bighorn are not open to non-residents. Again, much like Jason talked about, the mountain goat are not open to non-residents this year either. So we do mention a couple units in the writeup for residents, which there’s only two units, so yeah,

00:24:35:05 –> 00:25:19:08
1 14, 1 15. But anyway, that brings us to elk. We crank through, you know, we feel like obviously there’s, there’s some, some awesome elk in Nevada. It’s no question kind of in a, an elk, somewhat of a paradise. There’s, there’s some big bulls in Nevada compared to the amount of elk habitat they have over there. We’ve really enjoyed it over there. Archery hunted it. I’ve also had a, a late season bull tag and clear back in the day when there were some big bulls and held out for one bull and didn’t kill one but not the easiest units in in the world to hunt. You definitely got, you know, a lot of thick trees and a lot of long range glasses. And so anyway, anybody that has the BT Xs, the Swarovski btx, obviously that is a, that is a must I would say if you have that.

00:25:19:08 –> 00:26:23:08
And by the way, since we’re talking about BT X’s, I want to thank Ken Kent’s optics for sponsoring Epic Outdoors. These guys are awesome. The Harolds brothers been selling optics and sporting goods for over 20 years. They have the best brands including Roky, vortex, night Force, Zeis, Zig Hour, and Black Diamond with the ability to special order. Many of them they do have B T X I pieces in stock. And so anyway, for those of you don’t know it, it’s like basically big eyes, your spot and scope, great big 95 millimeter objective, 32 power if you’re using the 95 objective on that spot and scope and you can take the single eyepiece off, off and on as you want, put that B T X I piece on and you’re, you’re looking through with both eyes 32 power at long range does is angled. But anyway, definitely one an eyepiece that I would have if I was gonna hunt Nevada, give those guys a call as well. It’s (435) 257-7014 or kents optics.com. Give ’em a chance to earn your business. You won’t be disappointed.

00:26:23:09 –> 00:26:43:00
These Nevada archery elk counts open the end of August. They’re not rip roaring screaming their guts out. Most of them start, you know, the last week in August, there’s a few of ’em that started as Zer as the 16th or so and it’s a glassing game. There’s some bulls, you know, in velvet, but still, you know, in some of these hunt Yeah, jar jar. So you’re gonna be got a vet

00:26:43:09 –> 00:26:46:04
You a glass story in our magazine. That’s right. Got killed an opening day. So,

00:26:46:07 –> 00:27:19:19
So you, you, you definitely need to use optics in your Nevada archery hunts and on all Nevada hunts, there’re, there’s no in any numbers, there’s a few obscure, not obscure, but a few random placed muzzle loader and rifle rutt hunts, but, but they’re very minimal in number. The bulk of Nevada’s firearm elk hunts are in October and November and that’s, they can maximize more opportunity there without hammering the resource in the top end bulls. Having said that, there are some pretty awesome hunts in early September with muzzle loaders. That’s right,

00:27:19:19 –> 00:27:42:08
That’s right. There is in fact, and a lot of their muzz order hunts are October 22nd to November 5th like you talked about. And then you kick in with those late season rifle hunts being November 6th to the 20th and you know, at least that’d be the first part of the season. And then you come in with November 21st to December 4th on the lates kind of that second. They’re both late but they call ’em early and late. They’re not really early. Some of ’em that’s

00:27:42:08 –> 00:28:20:05
When the bulk of their tags are issued is those two rifle hunts in November and, and all in Nevada. That’s, that’s the bulk of it. Yeah. And that’s, you know, you’re gonna need your optics, you’re gonna need, you know, probably a long range gun or something like that. It’s, they’re, you got, you got people lined up, you know, on the valley floor glass and long range at some of this stuff and yeah, you know there are a few exceptions to that. You know, you’ve got a couple of these early muzzle loader hunts. I don’t know if you wanna highlight a couple of those. Jar garbage I believe is one of those. They’ve got those, they’ve got a couple of these late August, early September muzzle order hunts in Nevada, which they’ve only had those for the last, yeah, I wanna say two

00:28:20:05 –> 00:28:46:11
Years. Yeah, it’s not been very long, but you know that the, oh sixes oh 6 2 0 6 8 has a phenomenal hunt September 1st to the 16th. It’s just crazy. It gets really, really good and you know, that’s actually a season that, and that oh 6 1 0 7 1 that’s a season that kinda, you know, takes place what you would be normally like here in Utah. Our archery hunt hunt would go then, but their archery hunts start then and before then and end at the end of August. Yeah,

00:28:46:11 –> 00:29:23:04
They have three to four units where they flip flop the, you know, the archery is, is even earlier than where it normally starts and put the muzz loader the last two weeks of it, you know, a garbage is another one. And so you’ve got wind se seasons of time from mid-August till December in Nevada. And so depending on your schedule and weapon type keeping in mind you gotta have open sight and muzz loaders in Nevada. It’s not, maybe it’s appealing for everybody, but there is something for whatever your schedule is, you should be able to find something and work in mix and match weapon types and all that throughout your five choices.

00:29:23:09 –> 00:30:17:13
One thing I liked what you said as far as long range, you know, you are glass and long range and, and no, no matter what, what you say, what you do, you end up glassing long range in Nevada, especially in those Ely units. Very, very thick. And, and the guys that know it best, and we do recommend an outfitter in there by the way, but going with an outfitter, but the guys that do it best, they’re sitting there for hours and hours and you think, man, I’ve glass that hillside how many times, I don’t know how many more times we can glass it and not see something and all of a sudden a giant stands up and I’ve been there and witnessed it and so anyway, it’s good to be able to shoot as well. And so, you know, we do recommend, you know, be able being able to shoot as far as you can. We do work with Red Rock Precision, I like to thank them for their support with us as well. Adam and I both have their rifles, we’re able to shoot long range. I know Brons and you’ve got clients where you know, you’ll even, they’ll even leave their gun home and you’re like, just leave it home, I’ll dial for you on the scope and we’re good to go. Well

00:30:17:13 –> 00:31:11:00
It just depends, A lot of guys that maybe draw sheet punt and they’re from back east and maybe they don’t even hunt with a center fire because you can’t, you’ve got archery, muzzle loader, shotgun type white tail or bear seasons and it’s one less thing to bring out and fly out with or one less cost they gotta incur if they’re looking at, you know, hey I’ve got a desert sheet punt offer to help ’em out. Great guns, very easy to use, deadly. They set ’em up, start to finish, work out a, a specific load for each gun themselves. They don’t, there’s nothing cookie cutter about it. It’s unique, worked up for that gun and you have the ability to come out and go to their, go to their shooting range with them, shoot your actual gun before you take it home. Yep. And great, great great setup. Told you to give ’em a call If you’re thinking about a long range gun setup, you know, use whatever scope combo you want, Huska, ma, night Force, Roski, you know, if you have a personal preference they can, yeah,

00:31:11:00 –> 00:31:51:17
They’re very customized if the, if you like a different scope, they’re cold, the and ’cause about any setup that you really know and you work well with this day and age with the quality optics are, is you can make it shoot long range if you work with it and, and they’re willing to do that. But anyway, we do have an epic series rifle and so you can get on board with that with a limited SE number, limited number edition one through 50. So anyway, you can call those guys at (801) 391-7840. Let’s jump into Mule Deer. I know when I was making a few comments in here, I put that Nevada had a great year in 2017 and Bronson scratched it out and put solid year and it did have a solid gear, it was

00:31:51:17 –> 00:31:56:11
Spotty it some your, some units did very, very well. Like 2 31, 2 31

00:31:56:11 –> 00:31:57:01
For instance. Yep.

00:31:57:02 –> 00:31:58:29
There’s other units that struggled when

00:31:59:08 –> 00:32:37:17
Compared the one thirties obviously. Yeah, governor tag came from the one thirties as well as some other bucks. But, but then some of the bucks that, you know, I I had been watching down in the desert didn’t do as well. Like they came back 30 inches less and so there was a lot of bucks that kind of struggled last year and then, and a lot of it was just where the rain hit and the timing that it hit and it was a little bit northern and I call ’em northern, it’s just the habitat is varies a bit. 2 31 has a, is just has a lot more green, has a lot more, you know, burns and foliage and, and the storms kind of build up on Wilson and White Rock and whatnot and they, and it just seems to get more rains. Those monsoons smack there pretty good.

00:32:38:03 –> 00:33:36:14
And man, it produced like crazy again second year in a row, you know, the year before they killed a net booked non-typical, which I guided Adam Kearney to and then they killed the world record archery buck at 2 0 7 net. And so just, I mean how can you beat that year and again this year, several other two 20 bucks taken in 2 31. So just very, very impressive. Good. You know, friend of ours and, and member Louis po Polish went with Greg Kro and killed a stud in, in area 13 and whatnot and those guys know that well. And so anyway just, just, there was a number of of units that did really good. We highlight those in our magazine. But you know, the one thing we do like about Nevada and what’s crazy about it is a lot of their archery hunts start August 10th. There is nothing else going on except for hunts north of the border, meaning Canada, you know, Alaska where there’s seasons that compete with that. And so the first big bucks of the year always come from Nevada and it gets everybody fired up

00:33:36:21 –> 00:33:52:20
And it’s a 30 day archery hunt, I believe it goes till the 9th of September. And that’s, you know, pretty much velvet the whole time except for maybe the last week or 10 days they’re starting to rub or b can be starting to rub and then you jump into the muzzle loader hunt right after that.

00:33:52:27 –> 00:34:31:00
As far as other archery opportunities, there are some hunts November 10th through the 20th, like 1 21 late, which we highlight some, the 1 94, 1 96 over by Reno. We’ve got, you know, December 1st to January 1st. And just some of those opportunities that allow guys to, you know, even the 1 0 1 to 1 0 9 rubies late that’s killed a couple of giants. There’s, there’s some great opportunities, you know, they’re a little bit shorter, obviously not gonna let you hunt the entire rutt, you know, like a 30 day early season. But they, they do have hunts November 10th through the 20th in some of those. And then obviously a full month out there by Reno. So great opportunities for good for the archers fact. Phenomenal.

00:34:31:06 –> 00:34:40:26
They are. And you know, bleeding right in, like I said to the muzz loader hunt, you still have another 30 days with a muzzle loader or dang near 25, you know what I

00:34:40:26 –> 00:34:43:11
Mean? Well, well it’s, yeah, it’s September 10th. October 4th.

00:34:43:14 –> 00:35:09:28
Yeah, I mean good grief, I mean mean almost another month with the muzz loader and again hunting prec scouted bucks that hopefully no archers, you know, harassed too bad or killed or or things like that. But it’s, it’s a great time to hunt pre scouted bucks. Again, there’s a few exceptions that have late muzz loader hunts in the oh eight ones. Sure, 1 9 4 96 has some stuff as well as 1 14, 1 15 to take advantage of some your favorite unit to take advantage of some late season migration hunts. I have done that one 10 plus

00:35:09:28 –> 00:35:12:19
Years ago you did tell us that was back in the, in the Ford Ranger

00:35:12:19 –> 00:36:20:02
Days 95 or 90, 90, 95, 2005, something like that. Yeah, it was, you know, one of the years that it did not snow. Watched a couple of big, big deer in, in Great Basin National Park right up to the last of the hunt end of November and they were content chasing the ladies up there at 10, five, 11,000 feet. Yeah, they were happy they didn’t need to come down. So that’s that type of hunt. But Nevada we’re, we li I’ll speak for myself and I know Jason feels the same way though. We like to have more in our control when we hunt deer and that meaning scouting deer and hunting deer where they live is generally how I like to hunt them. What? And so that generally in Nevada for me leads me to, you know, archery and muzz letter I, my last tag I drew was an archer tag in unit 24 and I’d rather hunt, hunt big deer and go down swinging with a bow than, than to hunt tough dates late in, in October after they’ve been crushed and it’s hot. At least you’ve been able to pattern a deer. No where is living get first cracked in the velvet or just out of velvet? They’re just a lot more in the open, a lot more. You can glass ’em up a lot better.

00:36:20:13 –> 00:36:25:10
Even if the year you did hunt was one of the toughest years on record. Yeah, it was 2012 and I’ll take it

00:36:25:21 –> 00:37:14:18
And it was brutal, but, but that in area 24, I wanna, I wanna clarify it’s 2 41 to 2 45 the area they used to go by areas years ago. And so anyway, it just, it’s kind of, you know what you go by. But anyway, 2 41, 2 45. But yeah, what a phenomenal opportunity. The one thing about the muzzle before we leave it, they, it does feel they give less tags in the muzzle or season than any other season. And so generally speaking you have a few very lates like the two twenties or something that they’ll give very few tags in. But generally speaking, you know, and even at that one there’s less on the muzzle. So anyway, generally speaking, very great opportunities. You know, you don’t, you’ve got big clusters of units, you know, it feels like an unbelievable amount of ground, maybe a hundred square miles at times where you are not gonna be dealing with other people.

00:37:14:18 –> 00:38:09:01
You’re not gonna see other headlights unless obviously there’s one particular buck that’s kind of the local legend or something then you might have to deal with some people. But rifle hunts, rifle hunts are awesome, you know, they’re the, probably the toughest season generally speaking. They do have some later seasons that are a little bit easier and quite high demand. The October 5th, if you got an, a season that splits like an October 5th to the 20th be a little bit tougher, that’s obviously the least desired, toughest, highest tag numbers, less quality bucks taken, you know, per hunter than than the other seasons. And so they’re smart man. They, they are coming outta their summer pattern. They’ve, they’ve stripped their velvet, they’re not to, they’re not ru they’re not really migrating. You just got a smart deer smartest time to, you know, not the smartest time for a hunter to hunt, but it’s when the deer are the smartest and and toughest to pattern and kill.

00:38:09:03 –> 00:39:08:12
Yep. Some of those units start October 5th and go till the 25th, 28th, 31st and maybe a couple of sessions longer than that and you have only one season. But in a lot of the state they have, they have at least two rifle seasons. There’s a couple that have three an early a mid and the late like the two twenties, I think the 1 0 1 to 1 0 9 has one of that structure. But for the most part you have an early hunt about the fifth to the 2020 first and then you got the late hunt, which goes till depending on the unit, a lot of times around the 5th of November a few of ’em cut it off short like the second couple of ’em extend till the eighth. It’s just kind of, yeah, how some of the county advisory boards over there, how they’ve politiced and lobbied for their, some of their particular units in their part of Nevada to get a season date, you know, go a couple days longer or they want to cut it off a couple days shorter just to save some deer. It’s amazing. You know, Nevada’s one of those states in our, you know, we’re two to three days at the end of October, early November can make a huge difference,

00:39:08:12 –> 00:40:08:23
Huge difference. Like 2 31 now goes to October 31st. It’s a huge deal. They pile up in the south end of the unit and buy the thousands literally and they’re looking to rutt and whatnot and so a little bit vulnerable, you know, that’s the one thing you know, we learned Bronson as we, as we hunt across the west and we hunt Colorado and Utah and Nevada, you see some of these little changes that make huge, huge differences like the gon extending till the 31st of October or, or something like 2 31 the extension there or even like the two twenties late now going to November 8th. Like there’s things like that where we were hunting governor bucks November 3rd in the two twenties. Now that regular late season goes into November 8th until eighth. Yeah, I mean that’s it for all intents and purposes when we were shooting governor bucks out there and so he tells you how vulnerable they can be and and kind of the desired, you know, season date that that is not easy to draw obviously, but the few guys that do get it, it’s pretty awesome opportunity. That’s right. So jumping into antelope, you know, Jason’s

00:40:08:26 –> 00:40:09:08
Favorite animal,

00:40:09:15 –> 00:41:13:23
My favorite animal, I actually am learning to love them. So anyway with antelope there are some great units coming on. Nevada’s really coming on with some good bucks and so especially that oh 7, 6 0 8 1 up there in that northeast corner. Big, big antelope bucks being taken, some of the other units are still doing good. The oh three three Sheldon and the oh 4 1 0 4 2. So a lot of those are still doing good. We did, I did spend some time in 2 51 this year I had a deer tag, a muzz or deer tag and ended up turning it back. Just didn’t see quite the quality I wanted to see. So anyway, got my points back but you know, did see some big antelope bucks in there and so pretty impressed area 13, the 1 32, 1 34, there was some good bucks in there. Saw some pretty stout antelope bucks in there. So we do, you will find some of those within our tables of the magazine. Adam and I are just kind of briefly going through this thing, cranking not giving you everything just because it would take hours and hours but you, but our members sure can see it on the web right now as well as you know, at the doorstep fairly soon.

00:41:13:23 –> 00:41:30:07
That’s right, definitely consider adding, adding an antelope if you like to hunt ’em 10 bucks, build points, apply the year you want to go and you know, big bucks they’ve got, you know, areas where you can just shoot antelope. But for the most part we’d characterize antelope in Nevada as trophy. Trophy quality.

00:41:30:07 –> 00:42:03:16
That’s a hundred percent right. So Montana, that brings us to Montana. We do have it in our publication. We cover the sheep, moose go bison. An antelope in this particular issue covered the deer and the elk already that had an application period ending March 15th and so that’s done and gone, although you can do points only this summer starting July 1st and so anyway, and that, and that holds true for the sheep, goat, moose, bison and ope as well the exception of bison. But there is a points period there July 1st as well. And so while we’re covering that, I thought I’d just throw that in there. Yeah,

00:42:03:16 –> 00:43:07:17
It’s a big change from last year. Legislature passed that points only period last year. They did add it for the summer but it wasn’t, you know, this time last year we weren’t even talking about it. It hadn’t been approved yet. It did get later on approved by the legislature, they implemented it. But it’s made it nice in Montana if you don’t, in the past if you didn’t wanna draw, you simply had to just pick the hardest to draw unit in the state even for antelope and cross your fingers you didn’t draw and if you drew it, your points went to zero, they were gone. You couldn’t just be building points for antelope or That’s right. You know, sheep, moose, and goat, a lot of people were fine putting the very best unit in the state because if you got it, wow, you know, you got a once lifetime type species go make the best of it. But that, that is a new change to keep aware of. They did much like, I guess Nevada, Colorado, some of these others, Montana added a new portal type system, portal jor, place to go log in, track your draw results, your preference points and all of that. You do not, unlike Colorado and Nevada, you do not have to make your portal in Montana first before you can apply. You can

00:43:07:17 –> 00:43:08:08
Still apply like normal.

00:43:08:13 –> 00:43:37:17
Yep. Go to your regular online spot, apply that way. All the same things are gonna look very similar. However, when draw results start coming out, you are gonna have to have your portal made in Montana, you’re gonna have to be able to go check your draw results, preference points, all of that to check that. So they probably will merge it all together and may have to apply through it in the future. But just, just be aware from that if their page looks different, if you’re going there to set up a portal and they’re going to apply on that, that’s not where you apply. So don’t look for it there a lot.

00:43:37:20 –> 00:43:53:10
A lot of these states are coming on with these new systems, being able to log in and whatnot. And a lot of it is just to protect you. It’s frustrating for us, it’s frustrating for you as well, I’m sure in a lot of cases. But it is to protect you and not allow people to just jump in and see what you got and type their birthdate, your personal

00:43:53:10 –> 00:43:55:00
Information, zip code and look up your stuff

00:43:55:03 –> 00:44:41:17
Guys, get on Facebook and guess where you lived and pretty soon they’re, they’re seeing exact, you know, cruising through your personal information. And so there was a lot of that going on and this, this helps that especially, you know, some of these companies that do have things where they can go and look up your points and you know, kind of have these spiders that go out and check everything and whatnot. This will, this will fix some of that. We don’t wanna go line by line in the, in these particular states on a podcast, but do wanna make you aware it is just 50 bucks to apply for sheep, goat, moose by bison and then you know, $20 bonus point for each one. And then you would buy the base hunting license fee, you know, $15 and $10 conservation one time not for each species one time and be able to apply for those And then, and then obviously you’d get charged the license fee if drawn, which is the case in most all the states.

00:44:41:20 –> 00:45:32:25
Yeah, the only exception to that is antelope, they do make you pay the permit fee up time upfront when you apply plus a $5 application fee. So it’s $205 when you apply for antelope. Again, if that’s the only species you have to, you’re gonna apply for, you have to buy the base and the conservation license as well. Just breeze over antelope real fast, fast as we just talked about it. Opportunity antelope, airless, you’re just excited about public land antelope? No, I’m not. I’m just getting ’em out of the way. Okay. Alright. And great opportunity state, a lot of tags eastern, half of the state, especially unit 700 district unit 900 antelope. You get multi-region tags up in that part of the woods and you know, but for the most part, sheep, moose and goat sheep, you cannot talk about Montana without realizing it’s kind of the holy grail of giant rocky mountain. Big horns

00:45:32:28 –> 00:45:33:25
Monsters. So

00:45:34:12 –> 00:46:07:23
There’s no place like Montana, there hasn’t been for my lifetime. And you know, last year you killed a number of tremendous rams in the unit. 42 6 80 both produced 200 inch plus net 2 0 8 and 6 82 0 4, 2 oh fives and and 4 8 2. So giant, giant sheep. You know, the average ram taken in those units, this is the average out of, you know, 20 plus sheep in each unit was 16 inch bases by like 39 and six. I mean almost a 40 inch by 16 average

00:46:07:29 –> 00:46:11:14
With the largest at 45 inches long on a 17 inch base. A seven year old.

00:46:11:14 –> 00:46:12:13
Yeah, that’s a pretty good one.

00:46:13:05 –> 00:46:13:29

00:46:14:05 –> 00:46:56:25
And what you’ll find out, you know, talking to people that are on the ground spending time there is, you know, well yeah, the genetics are awesome. We’ve always known that the average age has come down on what they’re harvesting. They’re just, there’s some freaks still six to seven year old rams that are just freaks of nature. Just, just like we have people’s, you know? Yeah. They’re mature fast and they’re, they’re giants. And having said that, you know, our tables break down all the non-resident sheep units that are available this year. They’re, they’ll draw 10 to 12 non-resident ram tags, not great drawing odds. Overall pretty tough. But we are in the same draw pool in, in Montana with residents. But after

00:46:56:25 –> 00:47:12:01
Looking at the drawing odds in Nevada, Nevada, Nevada, yeah, it’s unbelievable. There’s, we’re talking like one and 2 44 for unit six 80, you know, all of a sudden you’re thinking, gee, they’re not that bad. Yeah. 4 82 is one and 3 27. And so obviously this doesn’t take into account both points. Nonresident

00:47:12:10 –> 00:47:24:05
Quota, you know, there is 2000 on residents putting in for unit six 80. So for a, for a couple of tags. So your odds are not, not true odds for non non-residents there we’re in the same hat together. They have a

00:47:24:05 –> 00:47:26:19
Night with the residents. With the resident and then we’re limited to a 10%.

00:47:26:22 –> 00:48:03:29
That’s right. So you know, you gotta keep that in mind. And it doesn’t mean just because a non-resident can apply for a unit, that one’s gonna get drawn there. It’s a little bit like Idaho. They tell you in Idaho you can apply for all units. Montana is a little bit different. They actually tell you these are the units non-residents can apply for. For sheet moose and goat. This year change this year to year. You may look last year we put it in our tables. We made it helpful for you to look at. Say all right, what were the odds last year and was there non-resident applicants? Was it available last year? So you can kind of gauge, okay, those odds are probably gonna be somewhat reflective this year or no, they’re probably gonna get worse now. Hasn’t been open for non-residents for three years now. It is. The odds are gonna get worse. I

00:48:03:29 –> 00:49:05:01
Think one of the things to point out too is these long season dates, generally the season dates are September 15th and November 25th. Super long opportunity and you’re running a hundred percent killed. Dang near every time. You may have somebody that doesn’t hunt or whatnot, things happen within their family or something. But for the most part these are high success hunts. For big rams, even the average units have big rams compared to other states. They do have unlimited opportunities for guys. We have those in our tables. You can, where you can actually go and if you apply for first choice or you buy it during the application period, you’ve got a sheep tag in your hands. They are not easy, don’t get us wrong, a lot of times, you know you’re constricted to a certain timeframe you gotta call in. Maybe it’s a quota. Once the quota’s filled, you’re done. Things like that. And so be very careful on some of that, that stuff. Having said that, if you apply for one and you do not participate in the bonus point system, you’ll keep your bonus points and you’ll get the tag and then you can later on apply for points only in the summer and gain a point as if you didn’t get a tag. Yeah.

00:49:05:01 –> 00:50:09:29
That that was a new byproduct of a points only application period. ’cause in the past you, you had to either buy a tag or apply for a tag during the application period or apply for an unlimited. But if you applied for the unlimited, you lost your points. Now you just would fall a point behind. Now you can go in the summer and buy a point and keep up the pace. That’s right. And so really doesn’t change it from too much from a standpoint other than in the past. You also, if you set out two years doing an unlimited, you you’d lose all your points. Yeah. Now you, you don’t lose your points in Montana until you draw your first choice. So you can sit it out, do an unlimited run for three to four years and try to give it, give it all you got while you’re building points in the summer. And that’s generally if you’re gonna do it on your own, that’s probably how you’re gonna kill one. You’re not generally gonna go up there, throw on your pack and go up there and kill a three quarter crow ram. That’s worth pointing out. Any ram is not legal. It’s gotta be threequarter curl. Yeah. So you’re gonna have to, you know, seeing sheep is a bonus. Seeing rams is a big, big bonus. Finding a legal ram, you better be in shape, you better be ready. It’s you better not, not let ’em get away.

00:50:10:05 –> 00:50:28:15
It’s aggressive. So anyway. We’ll you get the drift apply for Montana for sheep. Yeah. You get the drift. You can also apply for moose and goat applying for one doesn’t prohibit you from applying for the others like it does in Idaho. So you can’t apply for moose. I know Bronson here’s got a lot of moose points. He’s super, super excited to use those at some point

00:50:28:17 –> 00:50:32:20
I’ve got max points, but that’s all that means. I started when they started,

00:50:33:04 –> 00:50:33:11
I know

00:50:33:20 –> 00:50:40:25
I did draw a goat tag in Montana after three years and you know, have the sheep in the moose now just plugging away. Killed one

00:50:40:25 –> 00:50:41:19
Too, you know, killed a

00:50:41:19 –> 00:50:43:28
Goat, killed the nice round nine and three quarter inch shattered unit.

00:50:43:28 –> 00:50:45:02
Billy not around Billy.

00:50:45:14 –> 00:50:51:18
No I didn’t. Yeah. Did I say ram? Yep. Yeah, I was thinking Rams ’cause I was in an unlimited unit and I was looking at sheep the whole time. Were you,

00:50:51:25 –> 00:50:52:25
Was there any good ones? No,

00:50:52:26 –> 00:50:55:10
No legal rams but got me thinking. Really? Yeah.

00:50:55:10 –> 00:50:57:00
Was the quota on was everything? No, it

00:50:57:00 –> 00:51:11:25
Was all green. Light central. Wow. Yeah. Never saw anything over about a half curl. But I, my mind was turning. Yeah. And then like two years later I drew Oregon and thought, all right, okay. Killed one. I kind of have the bug to kill just any ram rocky slash California. I haven’t Did

00:51:11:25 –> 00:51:13:22
You have 14 bottles of bear spray on your belt?

00:51:14:08 –> 00:51:16:07
I had none. So

00:51:16:11 –> 00:51:17:14
The guy needs some bear spray.

00:51:17:22 –> 00:51:24:05
I had a gun and, and that’s all I cared about. I was the permitted hunter. So I’ve had what I needed on my shoulder. Your

00:51:24:05 –> 00:51:24:24
Brother, he’s

00:51:24:24 –> 00:51:26:14
G good. I don’t remember what he had, so

00:51:26:17 –> 00:51:27:06
Put him up on a point.

00:51:27:11 –> 00:51:37:12
He was younger than me, probably could outran me, but, but yeah, so I do have max points for moose. I, I’m not that contrary to what Carter tried to portray.

00:51:38:02 –> 00:51:38:16
You are too.

00:51:39:01 –> 00:51:39:11
I do not.

00:51:39:14 –> 00:51:44:18
Anytime we research these different states, we get all fired up over stuff that we’re not normally fired up

00:51:44:18 –> 00:51:48:19
About. Well I can get fired about just like you and antelope in Nevada right now. It’s, I’m

00:51:48:19 –> 00:51:50:25
Kind of excited about it. Yeah. So I, I’m gonna crush a giant, when

00:51:50:25 –> 00:51:57:06
You, when you do a lot of research on something, there’s a few things that you can get a little bit excited about. I guess there was a

00:51:58:03 –> 00:52:01:00
Units available to non-residents that were kind of new this year. Yeah,

00:52:01:04 –> 00:52:01:12
It was

00:52:02:00 –> 00:52:02:20
Turnover. Lot of research on them.

00:52:03:01 –> 00:52:10:26
Turnover, big turnover. 20, 24, 28. I forget right now off the top of my head. That was last week. So pretty awesome. But a lot of units available to non-residents.

00:52:10:26 –> 00:52:28:19
Drawing odds are not too bad. Of course we put in the drawing odds as we tried to allude in the sheep section. The resident non-resident are together, they’re a little off obviously because you know, once we reach that 10% quota you’re done. No more can be drawn. But anyway, until we reach that quota, those are your true odds.

00:52:28:20 –> 00:53:14:05
And a lot of these units you’ll see did not have non-resident applicants last year. So that was just the resident odds last year. This year, now that we can apply for ’em, they’ll go down naturally. Probably the biggest thing to just highlight about Montana moose is, you know, there’s a lot of variability but, but throughout region one, you and region three, which is where 90% of the moose tags are given and in nest cases no exception, there’s issues that have had wolf predation or thick decadent timber and things like that just deteriorate moose habitat. And so the combination of those two have moose numbers down. It’s made it tough. They’re thick. Sometimes a giant just happens. The guy comes around the corner runs, happens to be standing in the logging road with a cow and comes

00:53:14:05 –> 00:53:15:26
To, gets out pound stretching hole on his electric

00:53:15:26 –> 00:53:51:11
Bike. Yeah. Pounds of 52 inch moose. And you know, he, everybody on the outside looks at that saying Wow, that unit must be awesome. In reality, you know, 45% harvest rates for everybody else. So things can just happen. We do kind of list the better odds units as well as some of the trophy units in our opinion and the write up so that you can, you know, if you wanna stick to one of the trophy units, you can, you can glean that from our, our table. So mountain goats is the third, one of the big three that have a point system at least. And you know, region three is pretty much it this year. You know, that’s where the bulk of the goats are is in region three,

00:53:51:11 –> 00:53:54:29
Including the bridgers number one unit in the state now available to non-residents again. That’s

00:53:54:29 –> 00:54:08:26
Right. It’s open this year for non-residents. It’s probably the clear cut favorite from a trophy perspective, but most of Montana should be viewed as just really solid for eight and a half, nine inch to nine and a half inch goats. Which are nice goats. Good goats. I

00:54:08:26 –> 00:54:20:13
Mean for people. What’s the difference? The trophy’s a nine and a half. That’s right. You know a ten’s rare but we’re talking one inch so That’s right. Anyway, it is what it is. Of course we covered the antelope already brings us to bison. So yeah, it

00:54:20:13 –> 00:55:20:28
Got a couple of units adjacent to Yellowstone National Park, one backcountry unit that’s kind of a resident only type option there. But a couple units, one on the northern end of the park, the gardener unit and one on the west side. The West Yellowstone unit. Long three months seasons from mid-November to mid-February. What you need ’em, you’re gonna need ’em. And these are contingent about upon bison leaving Yellowstone National Park with weather and snow to find winter forage. That’s basically what, what these hunts are designed to do is to harvest bison that leave the park. They’re similar to what you have in Wyoming, but the Wyoming movement migration is much more consistent and you can count, you’re gonna kill one Darren generally Montana just doesn’t mean necessarily you’re a hard hunter. You go there and hike your guts out, you’re gonna find one. It’s just sometimes they’re not in the hunt area. That’s right. This last year was tough for a lot of the hunt till it got way deep That’s right into the season. And then, then they started trickling but it still wasn’t in heavy numbers. Some years they’ll, they’ll have 90% harvest in Montana. Some years they, they’ll have less than 10%.

00:55:20:28 –> 00:55:29:04
Seems like with bison in general, you got a lot of these kind of quirky little spots you got. Yeah, Wyoming is tough. You know, kind of weather dependent coming outta Yellowstone, grand

00:55:29:04 –> 00:55:30:11
Canyon Park in Arizona,

00:55:30:11 –> 00:55:48:18
Grand Canyon in Arizona, you’re just dealing with them running to the park. ’cause they know where the refuge, you know, they know where refuge is and where they can get away from people. And there’s nothing like, just like the Henry Mountains in Utah where it’s a traditionally just a great hunt on a isolated mountain range where you’re definitely gonna be on bison no matter what the weather is. And so you’re just dealing with some of that.

00:55:48:27 –> 00:55:54:00
If you want a free range in bison, you kind of have to apply for the place that have ’em. There’s not very many three of

00:55:54:02 –> 00:55:56:05
’em apply, apply, gotta do it. But but at the same time

00:55:56:18 –> 00:56:02:22
It’s not, it’s not drawing a tag is the start, the start of, of Montana long process in Montana. That’s

00:56:02:22 –> 00:56:25:01
Right. And you, you’re gonna, you’re gonna pray that you have to use snowshoes. That’s right. So anyway, that brings us to Kansas. We both hunted Kansas, spent some time up there. I’ve killed a white tail a couple years ago, I guess maybe 2016. And Bronson’s killed a mule deer actually went up there and, and killed a really nice buck late in the season. Be December colder than crap. Remember that Chris, you guys,

00:56:25:05 –> 00:56:25:28
That was cold.

00:56:26:05 –> 00:56:30:22
It was cold. All I heard was whining gnashing of teeth from you two fellas. But it

00:56:30:22 –> 00:56:47:08
Was bitter. Well when you sit like you know what you, what you hunt deer with in Kansas, you’re sitting, whether you’re glassing or whether you’re sitting on a standard of blind location, you have no heartbeat. Yeah. And it’s blown like crazy and it’s near zero or whatever it was. It’s, you

00:56:47:08 –> 00:57:40:10
Know. Yeah. And you’re seeing the same deer every day and it’s wide open. You can see everything, you know. So anyway, yeah. O over in Kansas, they don’t have specific muer to apply for you apply for a whitetail tag and units that have mule air and then you apply for a mule air stamp if successful and you mark the little box at the time of application. If you’re not successful in driving, in drawing a milder stamp, which is fairly tough a lot of times 20% or so, then you’re sitting with a basic $442, you know, license for white tails, which is non-refundable, non-transferable. Can’t turn it back. And so anyway, kind of an interesting deal. You wanna make sure you can hunt can or you want to hunt Kansas for white tills up there. A lot of good opportunities. I spent my time in in unit 16 and, and you know, 15 to 16 I guess are traditionally, you know, the hotspots, but honestly there are giants coming from a lot of different units depending on the ranch and whatnot.

00:57:40:10 –> 00:58:37:28
And so anyway, I rifle hunted my white tail and got tired of sitting in a blind and decided I was gonna drive in glass, glass and glass and glassing up and pounded him and, and it was over. And so anyway, just kind of did it the way you do it for Mule Air glassing and covering the numbers and so anyway, good opportunities. I know Chris, you’ve hunted Kansas, of course we don’t have you and Mike on, so I guess you could shout out praises for Kansas. But anyway, he did, he went up there and hunted the walk-in areas and kill aach. Okay, not a giant, but you killed a buck but you saw a giant and should have killed a giant or whatever if I remember right. And so anyway, it’s good eating, having said that, good eating and, and so anyway, there are some walking areas you can go out there and you don’t just have to have ranch access. And a lot of guys are like, well everybody can go do that. There’s nothing big there. And that just couldn’t be further from the truth. There’s a lot of good bucks in some of those areas that are just overlooked because people think they’re pounded

00:58:38:01 –> 00:58:50:11
Got a story in this issue about somebody that did that. So it, it’s doable with a lot of guys that end up hunting some of these walk-in areas, state access areas year after year, you know, they can turn up a great buck. So if you

00:58:50:11 –> 00:59:21:00
Need a an outfitter, we work with multiple good outfitters within Kansas, you know. And so if you, if you, the one thing about Kansas, they do have a points only thing one. If you have one point, you pretty much get anything you’d like. You can tell when you get drawn. That’s what’s cool about all these, all the states are different, right? And so how cool is that? You can tell when you’re gonna go if you can, if you know you’re gonna go to Kansas and you know you’re gonna need an outfitter book one now, like book ’em now call us and we’ll get you lined up and that way you know you’re going, you got a place to hunt. That’s

00:59:21:02 –> 01:00:15:19
Right. It’s, it’s not one of those things that you apply and get lucky for you apply knowing you’re probably gonna get drawn. Most of Kansas you can draw with zero points guaranteed. The ones that you can’t are like 80 to 90% with zero points. So you need a place lined up to hunt before you do it. Whether you’re gonna research the walk-in areas, which is tough to do. I mean it’s, it’s doable but it is a state with 95 or 7% private land. And so it’s not, not got big vast tracks of public land or walk-in areas or, or state owned ground or things like that. It’s gonna take some work. So that’s I guess a boil down version of the April issue as far as the three states that we cover. And obviously that’s on like we’ve talked about, that’s online. It’ll be mailed to you if you’re a member of our service and you know, next month we’ll cover a couple new states and they’re timely in that they, we cover them prior to their applications being due.

01:00:16:07 –> 01:00:59:02
But with the current year’s application and regulation information in our hands, we aren’t gonna go to, to print prematurely before we have what’s new for this year, what the unit’s available this year or all of that information does, you know, good as a reader, it’s it’s poor, it’s it’s poor business to put out stuff that’s old and outdated. So that’s why we do it. We have short turnaround times, we work like dogs getting it out to you guys on time and you know, for some of you guys it’s getting to be starting to get time of year where you might be looking at some hunting gear and things like that. Boots are on, on the list that you’re always gonna be needing to do and buy and break in and get prep for your hunts. Kenna Tre’s been a great partner as our of ours at Epic Outdoors from the very, very start.

01:00:59:14 –> 01:01:45:18
They jumped online as soon as we got up and going. We like to appreciate Jim win Jim and his support of us. They’ve got everything from early season hikers to extreme train mountain boots. I’ve used their desert guides and their mountain guides exclusively for the last several years. They have a new version of the Kenreck Mountain Guide 400, just a new mountaineering boot. It’s designed, you know, for more rugged terrain, deeper lug, stiffer out sole and 400 grams grams of insulate insulation. Great boot Kenna trick’s been around long on time, great support of ours and support of hunters and Jens. You can go on their website at Ken Trek, k e n e t r e k.com or call ’em at (800) 232-6064 if you wanna talk with them and place an order, Bronson,

01:01:45:19 –> 01:02:10:25
Because the Colorado deadline is coming up April 3rd, it is time to apply. I want you to tell a story about your unit 61 buck. This ought to be good. It’s a good story. It’s a crazy story with the air conditioning rolling, which is kind of characteristic last two years in Colorado being so warm and dry and yet you killed a 200 inch deer. And I’ll tell a story about one of my bucks. Go ahead. This

01:02:10:25 –> 01:03:10:01
Was 2007 or eight, I don’t remember when it was, but I cashed in my points. I think it was about, I don’t know, nine or so at the time. Then I knew at 61 for years it was just over the Utah border. It looked over at it probably like you Jason growing up. You know we hunted the LaSalle Mountains in Utah for Yep. Dolores Triangle, general season Elk. And if you look over there, what’s that mountain range? Just little bit by bit, you get to know a little bit more about it. It was familiar looking country, red rock, canyon country, oak brush, Aspen, all that type of thing. It was a type of unit. It had a great reputation at the time. It was, it was a great reputation, great genetics and whatnot. Anyway, cashed it in, just ended up happening to be one of those years that was brutally warm. It was hot and the writing was on the wall. This is gonna be tough and I don’t remember the specific circumstances. It’s been 10 years ago or so now. So I as to why maybe I decided to, to not turn the tag in frankly because you could do that back then up until the day before the hunt. But I didn’t and I, I I just thought, you know, I waited this

01:03:10:01 –> 01:03:11:00
Long. Well we didn’t know as much back then.

01:03:11:08 –> 01:03:54:17
Yeah. And I waited this long and if you remember you could get easy to get second choice tags and that and cheap landowner tags easily. So I thought well just burn these, they’re gone then I’ll go hunt. Well you know, a couple of days into the, into the scouting right before we got there I thought this is gonna be really tough. So anyway, I think it was the opening night, we hadn’t seen much that day and I said, hey, told my brother he’s there with me. This drop off hunting are totally different. Some are low down. Got down there. He was perched way above me, 2000 vertical feet, higher glass and kind of everything this big basin and valley below and bench benchy country. And I would just kind of still hunting through it in Glasson as I went. But I thought, you know, if he’s a mile or two above me glass and he spot something, you know, maybe I can make a play on it that night.

01:03:55:09 –> 01:05:03:11
Turns out, you know, hiked up on this point, turned around, probably walked within 300 yards of this deer in his dose and I made it a half a mile beyond him by the time I could actually get up out of the cedar draw I was in and get some elevation to look around me. And I looked back and I spa some doors and I looked up, there’s a big buck and I’m ripping off my pack, getting my spot in scope out and you know, thinking this thing looks pretty good at first sight from 800 yards or whatever it was and put it in my scope, could see in lines good big eye guards. And I’m thinking this thing’s a freaking shooter and the buck, you know, I probably left the truck and walked within, like I said, three or 400 yards underneath of it. He had to have heard something down there in the draw. Yeah. Whether he saw me, I don’t know. But he’s literally 300 yards off road, you know, right above it on a, no, on a north side in the shade, just nose in these do around, it’s early November. So right then, right then I hear some noise, I look over and here’s some orange walking right towards me. I hunter. And I’m like, which is common we’re, yeah. And I’m, and I’m starting to load up my stuff but it is a limited

01:05:03:11 –> 01:05:06:07
Entry elk. So you don’t have the elk pressure that you have.

01:05:06:11 –> 01:05:51:07
No. That’s another reason I you sought after 61 is it was drawn for both. The hunting pressure minimized is about as low as you can get for Colorado. It really is. Yep. But my scope is buried on this buck my spotting scope. Alright. And so first thing I do is whip that thing at 90 degrees. So it’s, you know, you know, and I’m just yeah. Pretending and I pretend like I’m gathering stuff up his back is to the deer and I’m looking at him and I, I can glance behind him and I can see deer at 800 yards of the naked eye and I’m just watching him ’cause we’re whispering on being quiet and, and he’s said, oh sorry, I didn’t mean to bother you. And I said, no, no. I said I’m just gonna, I’m gonna work my way back to the truck’s, not, you know, I’m not gonna go up this, if you wanna go up this way the way you were headed, that’s fine, I’ll stay outta way. Oh, that’d be great. So he took, he started walking and I waited till he was turned. So

01:05:51:07 –> 01:05:52:20
Is it safe to say you lied to him?

01:05:52:26 –> 01:05:56:18
No. Oh, I said I’m not gonna be up that way. Oh, okay. You can

01:05:56:18 –> 01:05:58:05
Go that way. I thought you were gonna work your way back to the truck.

01:05:58:08 –> 01:06:00:00
I am. That is right to the deer though. Oh,

01:06:00:02 –> 01:06:00:11

01:06:00:16 –> 01:06:02:13
The deer and the truck are the same direction.

01:06:02:28 –> 01:06:03:18
Got it. Okay.

01:06:03:29 –> 01:06:09:05
I’m not gonna say, hey, I’m gonna go shoot a 200 right here right now. Yeah. You wanna watch? I’m not gonna say that. Okay.

01:06:09:05 –> 01:06:09:29
Would you be my spot?

01:06:10:00 –> 01:06:54:13
Yeah. Would you spot, would you hold the legs for me as I feel dressing? No, not gonna do that. Alright. Alright. But we had a cordial but brief conversation. Okay. He walked up the ridge as soon as I couldn’t hear him, couldn’t see him, I was off, you know, and, and I only had to go probably. Yeah. Like I said, 400 yards at the time, you know, long range guns, you know, they were, they were kind of new. I didn’t have, I didn’t have one at the time. This was 10, 11 years ago. Yeah. And so I just thought if I get, I need to get thrown, you know, 400 yards and he’s toast. Anyway, I got up there, got packed, laid out on a rifle. He came out there, pounded the deer, get up there and he’s a, you know, seven by five big white toe looking frame in the back, hey to SPIs in the back. And SPI splits, you know, big 1214 inch spikes were normal G

01:06:54:13 –> 01:06:56:08
Two. It was, it was like behind the G two behind

01:06:56:08 –> 01:07:26:10
Them had spike, you know, had eye guards and just up the beans. It had another long, long 12 or 14 inches then what you’d call normal G twos and threes to the side of it. So really neat Buck 2 0 7. I remember calling you that night and telling, well I’m done ’cause I think I’ve been prepping like what you were, you were guiding somebody in Nevada if I remember right. And I’m like, you know, this is gonna be terrible. I’m gonna be here all week. It’s the writing’s on the wall. And then that night I’m like, well I’m done. I killed the 200 inch, what I know it was. And so that was the story and you know, it was a,

01:07:26:19 –> 01:07:27:17
And you had the AC on,

01:07:27:17 –> 01:07:29:00
It worked out, it was hot was, and I

01:07:29:00 –> 01:07:33:06
Believe you had the old Ford Ranger back then. I can’t remember. Oh, I don’t know what it was. Yeah, seems like it was. Yeah,

01:07:33:14 –> 01:07:54:25
One of my favorite probably was. And it was, you know, I remember AC on driving outta there and I remember leaving Colorado with that deer in the back of my truck thinking I, God I just won the cold. So lucky I won the Super Bowl because killed a great deer, but also in a year that I knew this is not gonna be an easier year. And it, and it wasn’t, it was one of those tough years like, like you said, the last two have been. So that was that. So it seemed

01:07:54:25 –> 01:07:57:12
Like your brother was with you. Didn’t he find a couple of good deer too?

01:07:57:27 –> 01:08:16:00
Yeah, he was, but then he, we ended with him two years later, so he decided to use them. We decided to not both draw the same time. We had the same number of points, but we just decided let don’t burn, burn ’em both at once. So he was there spotting for me. He saw some good deer, but you know, we killed that deer the first night so we didn’t, wasn’t there long enough. So

01:08:16:08 –> 01:08:17:02
Haven’t been back,

01:08:17:15 –> 01:08:40:16
No, we went back two years later with him and then haven’t been back to that unit since. I think overall just a gradual decline. And it’s not easy in 61. No, it’s thick country safe to a lot of brush save. You got lucky as opinion juniper took a 2 0 7 buck off that unit and you know, love to go, would love to go back sometime. Don’t know that I’ll, you know, now it’s taking 10, 10 to 11 points to draw the hunt. I’m not gonna wait for that. Yeah.

01:08:41:03 –> 01:09:27:08
All right. All right. So what are we gonna hear from there? That brings me, I, I don’t know. I was thinking about which one, I guess I’ll go with a buck I killed in 21. A hundred twenty one one. It was, you know, everybody was touting it as being an awesome unit. Wanted to go experience it and hit it. And it was one of those things where you, so 21, everybody talked talks about best unit in the state and you got a lot of the locals are like, you guys are full of crap. It’s not the best unit in the state. And and you know, and what they had seen from when they had seen it, it had come down in quality. And so we totally sympathize with that. Having said that, it still was one of the best producing units in the state, even though the quality isn’t, wasn’t what it once was.

01:09:27:15 –> 01:10:21:15
And so went in there, spent a lot of time, it just, you know, when you, when you hunt those units, a lot of times those late seasons, Bronson, and you can testify to this as well, it’s a numbers game. You’re covering country, you’re covering numbers, you’re not hunting, prec, scouted deer per se. They’re, they’re migrating or they’re looking to rut or whatever and things change. And so anyway, spent a lot of time glass and country actually went up a layer went up a little bit higher, probably at 7,500 feet, I wanna say. Maybe a little bit higher and just working it and having a hard time. Anyway, ended up g glassing up this buck. No, I guards and had cheaters out both sides and I was like, man, I don’t know, I’ll probably passed this deer but I don’t know I’m considering it. I went back, hooked up with a good buddy of mine and showed him the video clip and he goes, you’re an idiot if you don’t shoot that deer.

01:10:21:26 –> 01:11:16:12
And I’m like, well I don’t wanna be an idiot. So anyway, went back there, glassed him up again and watched him go into, it was a long range glass in and it was kind of in this wilderness area. Glassed him up, watched him go into this cut and disappear into this cut. And I thought, that’s a freaking long hike over there just to hope. Usually you, when you bet him you want to glass him and you wanna watch him beded, you know what I mean? Yeah. You wanna know that, that you’re hunting a deer and exactly where he is at and as soon as you get into range you can kill him. And so anyway, went over there, had a Thompson long range, I remember Thompson long range rifle and, and I took off, just took off, hiked over there. It was in a burned area long, you know, a long hike, get over there and get into the canyon just above as walking up the ridge of where he disappeared into this draw and, and I’m g glassing and walking glassing and walking and I glass down and I glass him up, beded underneath me.

01:11:16:21 –> 01:12:01:01
He’s probably less than a hundred yards and he’s just chewing his cu and I’m above him and you know, with Hunter Orange on and everything else, you just kind of feel like you stand out like a sore thumb. But anyway, I’m above him. He can’t see me. He’s just chewing his cu and I lay down and I just pile drive him right there in his bed. And, and of course didn’t even need the long range rifle. Thanks Mark. But didn’t need it. Could’ve shot him with anything. Chip shot, it was a chip shot. And so anyway, it turned out he was 2 0 7 34 and a half inches wide. Cheater, cheater and, and super heavy, just no eye guards, which is kind of characteristic for that unit. But I don’t know, just an awesome, you know, an awesome experience. Even though it was hot, I had to go up higher and make it happen and felt like I had to stretch a little bit and put a lot of miles on.

01:12:01:01 –> 01:13:10:22
A lot of these hunts we put on, you know, a couple thousand miles at times just covering country, covering numbers and doing everything we can to scratch one out. And so anyway, got lucky on that one. Scratched one out and ended up being a good deer. And so here Colorado’s coming due like I say, April 3rd, there’s a lot of great opportunities everybody should be applying. It’ll be interesting to see what the weather does. We’ve had some warm, warm years the past couple years on the third and fourth season and so we’ll see, we’ll see what comes of it all and and whatnot. You can draw some of these tags, you know, a few of them. Second choice and still gain a point. And then there’s obviously a lot of guys looking to use points and you, you should not gain too many points. We are fans of using points up. Any of you guys that do want, like in the meantime you’re looking to apply in Colorado. We have an old podcast where we covered Colorado in depth all the units last year and I would say it’s very good information for this year as well. And so you might go check that out. It was, it was very well received and so anyway, we might have time to crank out another Colorado podcast. Probably wear us out. Might take two monsters for that one. So anything else we need to talk about?

01:13:11:00 –> 01:14:12:02
I don’t think so Christopher, but that was, are we missing anything? That was a good breakdown on the April magazine. Like to one last, give one last shout out to one of our sponsors, vortex Optics. They’ve been with us from the start is where well we’d like to, thanks, give thanks to them for their continued support of Epic Outdoors. They provide our cover stories, a pair of 15 by 56 binoculars for every cover we put out there. We like to appreciate them. They came to the table early on and stepped up and offered that for us. They produce high quality optics at great prices. As Jason mentioned earlier, Kent stop, Kent’s optics is a great place to pick up your vortex optics that are carry all, everything you got from righto scopes to, to spotting scopes, everything. So appreciate them as well. And yeah, give us a call if you have some questions on what we’ve talked about today, you’re a member of our service, give us a call. The EMAG is online. Should answer a lot of that, see and validate a lot about what we talked about today for the stuff in Montana, Kansas, and Nevada.

01:14:12:09 –> 01:14:44:26
So, okay boys, till then, good luck applying. Let us know if you draw a tag. We, one last pluck, one last thing. We do have a membership experienced database. If you end up starting to draw these tags, let us know. We’ll send you a list of members who’ve drawn in the past, literally thousands of people into that database with draw tags. And so anyway, let us know. We’ll give you some help as well as you know, any personal information we have anyway, feel free to call us, you start drawing these tags or you need help applying and we definitely, we’re here to help you. So, all right with that, good luck. We’re out here.