EP 90: Hunting the West from an Eastern Perspective with Roger Smithson PT2. This is a followup episode with Roger Smithson about hunting the West from an Eastern Hunters Perspective. Roger details a lot of things he does to prepare for a hunt and some of the lessons he has learned over the years through traveling to the west to hunt.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

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There is no right or wrong answer on all that. It varies by the hunter, it varies by the species. It varies by land access.

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And you better not quit. You better just be able to know when to move from plan A to B to F,

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Anything to do with Western big games.

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Adam Bronson here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast coming at you, Cedar City, Utah. So talking nothing but Western big game. That’s all we do. All we know, we pretty much don’t do anything else or have any other hobbies. The wife is trying to get me into boating. But anyway, we’ll see if it works. I don’t know. We’re gonna go and do a few things, but having said that, that’s pretty much all we’re doing here. Southern Utah is, is applying and talking about tags and hunting and, and doing so. Anyway, got a great guest on us for a part two. Oh, Roger Smithson. We did a part one. Talked about applying from an Eastern perspective and, and hunting and a few stories to go along with it and how to do some of these different hunts. Excited to get, jump right back in with him and talk about some other topics that are pretty significant from guys, you know, that have questions every day that we’re dealing with. But before we do that, we want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. Of course, we deal with a lot of different companies that sponsor the podcast and work with us in a wide variety of ways in the magazine and, and running ads and doing different things. And of course, we only work with the best. These are guys we’ve known and dealt with for many, many years and become really close friends with, with, I guess you’d call it Adam, friends of the Industry. That’s right.

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We also just want to give a shout out to Red Rock Precision, been a great sponsor of ours here and supporter, and check ’em out. Red Rock precision.com. Make great long range rifles. It’s what we use here in the office and they’ll make you a more effective hunter for sure. Yeah, we appreciate their support and, but Roger, thanks for coming back with us first. The first one we did was a lot like, you know, getting back together guys, talking, hunting and just like we’re

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A truck driving down the highway, you know, and reliving everything. It’s like throwing it all out there random a little bit and, and, but we got through a lot of good stuff, so appreciate it. And today I think we’ll go a little bit more through some of the other things that Easterners have as far as questions and, and how they put together their hunts, if that’s all right with you.

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Sure. I I got to thinking after we did that first podcast, I hope people in the West can even understand what I’m saying, this southern accent. I don’t Well,

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I was gonna ask you earlier when you, when you were saying Colorado, I was gonna say, is that, are we talking about Colorado?

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Yeah, yeah. I don’t

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Know. What state are we talking Nevada?

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I don’t have those,

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I don’t have those crisp annunciations like Jason and I, you know, is that Adam that does powered Bond under Armor? Oh,

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That’s Chris. That’s Chris. Adam.

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Adam could, Adam could,

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I would have, I could, but I’d have to really try. And my,

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I thought, man, that voice

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Scares me more natural than Chris. Yeah,

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Adam would have to go smoke a cigarette or a cigar so he could, he could get there. He could get there.

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Yeah. I’d have to co coat my throat and flour or something like that before I talk like that.

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That first podcast did kind of remind me of just kind of some of the conversations that we’ve had driving down the road in the pickup truck and they kind of just randomly roam. And I, I hope the the listener can get something out of it. But that’s kind of what we do, just when we’re all around each other. And I, I was thinking about that after we did that first podcast and I, I was thinking about a conversation we had one time and Jason was telling me about this giant buck. He was chase chasing a desert, Nevada, and we were running some trail cameras. He had never, he had never seen this buck in the daylight or like three years and could not see the buck and a a line this

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Better, this better be a true story.

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I’m sure it’s Roger isn’t the kind of guy to make stuff up. Keep going. Roger.

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A line had moved in the area and this, I think it was like a Jason, it was a big four point or maybe a three by four that was like 34 inches wide, if you remember that buck. And a line had moved into the area. Yeah. And you were concerned about the line and all this. And he was going through this. It

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Was Mack, it was Mac

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Probably 36 or eight inches. Yeah,

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It was 38 inches. Yeah. Alright, keep going.

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You, you were telling me about this buck and you, you were losing sleep over this buck and you were giving yourself an ulcer over this buck. And I, I was just thinking, man, he is so into this deer and I was listening to you then a clear blue, you said, do you think Lady Gaga’s a talented artist? I said, what, what did that come from? And somebody had put some songs on your phone and you got to listen to those songs, you said, yeah, I think she’s got a great voice. I never listened to her.

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She can really say, that is not a true story. This is not all I remember was she was she, when the song came on, you knew every word. Do you remember that? And you, you were

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Like, I he’s lying. Oh, you have him tell me expression on his face right now? He’s lying.

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No. Oh,

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I don’t know. But that sounds like Jason then. Was it, was it the song where she wore the bacon dress?

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Oh gee, geez.

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I think Adam just exposed something there. Jason, he’s watching the videos.

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Adam’s Adam

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Just, I just love bacon.

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Geez. Anyway, sorry about that. But that’s where some of our conversations go.

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Oh yeah, well when you’re trying to stay awake running cameras or running the desert crazy. That’s probably, that might’ve been on that hunt in 2012 when Jason and I were, we got schooled on a bull hunt. You came out, I don’t know if you had a business meeting out here or what or Yeah,

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Yeah. Was,

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But you came out and spent a few days in the desert with us and that’s when the sun can cook your brains a little bit when you’re out there. That much. I forgot about that. So we’ll chalk that up to that Jason that Yeah, I

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Just, I get, I reserve the right to final edit. Alright.

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Alright. Sorry about that. Oh,

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That, that was a great story because I’m sure it’s true. So we talked a lot last time, Roger, about just the whole methodology and, and mindset about developing a plan, being committed to it. Don’t be overwhelmed. Don’t think you’re gonna draw too many tags. Ease into hunt in the west. But let’s talk maybe now a little bit into, all right, so you, so you got a tag or maybe you don’t draw, but you want to just book a hunt out west. ’cause we didn’t really get into that last time. But there are other mechanisms, outfit or tags, landing or tags that you can, you can plan and book a hunt out west. And so, but if you drew a tag, you got the option to go guide, guide it or self-guided. But we realized a lot of easterners as well view a lot of their western experiences, especially for the first time. They’re like, wow, it’s gonna be costly because yeah, I draw an elk tag and it’s a great elk tag, but now I gotta hire somebody because I know nothing about out hunting or the area or what that, so let’s talk a little bit about that, the guided versus unguided discussion, I guess for maybe somebody that maybe is inclined, has done all, does all their white toe hunting back east on their own and you know, on either leased ground or, or ground they own.

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And sometimes yeah, we use a guide just to be able to hunt the wilderness and Wyoming or, or sometimes we use a guide to access the right piece of private, but then, you know, obviously there’s a lot of these hunts, Roger, as you know, you get the choice, you go guide or unguided. Yeah.

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All that factors in to the decision, especially like an eastern guy has to make. And I’ve, I’ve done all of ’em, you know, I’ve, I’ve gone guided, I’ve gone, you know, for all my, my my thin horn sheep up in western Canada, I’ve gone, I’ve gone guided on those. I do unguided, you know, use a lot most of the time in the Western US and, and I, I, like we mentioned earlier, I, I do some guiding, so I, I kind of have an opinion on all that and I, I don’t, there is no right or wrong answer on all that. And I think it, it varies by the hunter. It varies by the species, it varies by land access, you know, how you’ve got the tag, you know, some of these tags you’re, you’re already committed to somebody. Yeah. So all that kind of has to factor in, especially for the guy from the east there, there’s quite a bit to process on that because the thing you gotta consider is if, if you go, you’re going to go out there on a hunt, you’ve got gear and if, if you’re thinking about doing this on your own, you’re gonna have to drive to carry all of your gear, you know, to, to hunt for a week.

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And, and that that can be tough. You got food camping equipment if you, if you’re going to stay out your guns, optics, packs, all that stuff. And so you’re going to have to drive well, from a guy that’s driving from North Carolina, you’re, you’re two days on the road to get to most of those Western states. And a lot of times you’re exhausted when you get there. Yeah, yeah. And you, you’re getting, you’re, you’re tired before you even start a physically grueling hunt. So a lot of that says, well, okay, well you should go go with an outfitter then. And I think in outfitters a lot of times will access, do have access to better areas where they’re, because of the remote nature or because it’s private land, an outfitter can help a guy maximize a tag. And, but there are some people that are just more interested in the experience and I, I find as the older I get, yeah, yeah, I want to get a, a good animal and I, I’d like to maximize the tag, but I’m also more about the experience and kind of being in control and not having to deal with some of the drama with, with some of the outfitters and guides and that stuff.

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But I’ve done both. I’ve, I’ve been with some great outfitters through the years, especially in Western Canada. And, but most of the stuff that I do in the western US is, is gonna be unguided. But I have to factor in, I I got driving time, I got gear and then, and once you get there, if you get an animal, then you got meat to deal with. What are you gonna do with that? You know, Outfitters help with that. But if I’m on my own, I gotta figure out do I, do I process it here? Do I try to freeze it here? Do I just head home right then and capes, you know, if you, if you kill a deer, you know, kill an elk, do, do you know how to cape out the animal to get the cape off of it so you don’t ruin it?

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Yeah. Are you gonna leave it with a taxi dermis in the west? Are you gonna try to secure a place for so someone would freeze it for you? Yeah. It’s just a lot of little questions that you, that you kind of have to factor in for the eastern guy that’s going out there that, that cape deal. It’s a tragic story about a, a guy that went out last year and killed a, I think it was a 1 96 buck in Colorado. And he, he brought it to me to mount and he’d killed the deer on a, like a Monday afternoon and he had it back to Arkansas Saturday night and, and that the cape had never been froze and I could smell it as soon as he, as soon as he brought it into the shop, geez, oh my, that’s not gonna work. So he’s, he’s got a buck of a lifetime and the cape is toast, it’s ruined.

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And I thought, man, all you had to do was secure somebody where you could freeze it. He said, yeah, I thought of that. And he said, I probably should have done it that beforehand. And he said, I couldn’t find the spot. Well, there’s probably several meat lockers within a a 30 minute drive that would’ve froze that cape for him. But then anyway, he, he replaced the cape, but it, it wasn’t his deer, it wasn’t his cape. So it’s just little, little things like that, the meat, the cape, getting your gear back and forth, you know, an outfitter does take care of that, but if you wanna do it on your own, you need to, you need to be prepared to address all that.

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Well, and, and, and, and part of it is cost. You know, you’re, you’re adding up wherever you’re coming from in the world to heading out west, driving gas, motel, food, you know, all your extra gear that you’re gonna buy that you know, you’re, you are gonna have to provide versus an outfitter’s gonna have there for you versus just flying out, being picked up in Denver, salt Lake, Albuquerque, wherever, you know, one of these, you know, major airports that you can get to in a lot of the, a lot of the west. But, but you know, I guess let’s just talk about like deer and elk. You know, I, I think a more, most fully outfitted deer and elk hunts, Jason would probably just be between 55 and 7,500. You know, there’s differences throughout them logistically, whether you’re wilderness back or horseback in or, you know, the length of days or things like that.

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So that’s, that’s kind of what you’re, and, and everybody in their world, in their own world and their own job and their time away from their business or their life or their family is, is worth differently. And, and meaning, you know, you might have a c e O from a, you know, giant company and he, he misses an extra five days of work because of two days driving out two days back. And that’s, that’s the cost of a dr of a guided hunt times three. You know what I mean? So it, it makes an easier decision for certain people than others. But then it comes down to, like you said, there are other people that like to just do their hunts on their own for the experience. They like to, they like to succeed on their own or they’re willing to just fail on their own, but they want to try.

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And that’s part of the whole experience for ’em. So those are decisions you have to make personally in your mind. But if you choose an outfitter, you know, Jason, I and Jeff and everybody here at Epic Outdoors, you know, that’s part of what you get in our services to have us have done a lot of that lead work and stay on top of outfitters that are producing in units that you’ve drawn, let you talk with them so you don’t have to put something to chance in terms of just picking somebody that came up on a Google search and okay, let’s go with that. But, but let’s talk maybe about, okay, you’re making the decision to go guided and what do you need to be prepared for

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In your mind? Yeah. And I guess to kind of dovetail into that Roger A. Little bit, there’s no shame in going guided in my, it’s like I, no, absolutely not. And some people think there is, but honestly, like, just imagine me coming out to Arkansas, okay? And, and remember like when you were, when we were planning on a whitetail hunt and you, you kind of geared me up on whitetail gear and it was like a, a wazoo 18 point harness to keep me in the tree, keep me safe in the tree and all this. And you know, back when I was raised, I mean, you basically put a rope around your waist and called it good. And that’d pretty much kill me, you know? And so anyway, things have come so far and, and I, and I don’t sit tree stand. I don’t know the, the the gear.

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That’s what you’re supposed to be using. I don’t know how to set up a tree stand per se. And, and so like, I would, I should go guided or with somebody that knows what’s going on. If I’m gonna go anywhere east of Kansas, Iowa Yeah. You know what I mean? Kansas, and, and, and to make the best use of let’s say a three points in Iowa or four Points in Iowa, it would be smart for me to hook up with a guy like you or to go guided and, and versus me just doing it because what, what food plots, like what’s a food plot and what where, you know, travel routes and corridors, what’s pinch and scrapes, what’s a scrape like, I mean, literally things that you guys take for granted everyday lingo is totally new to me. Totally new. Yeah. I have no idea what what this crap is, what you’re reading in terms of sign and yeah, know all that.

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And, and the sa the same applies for just

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Vice versa.

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Like us guys from the east Yes. Coming out west and,

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And you draw this once in lifetime tag or you draw one every 10 year tag, like you’re talking in Colorado one every eight, whatever, whatever it is. By the time you get done with the hunt, you wish you could do it over because now you know enough to be dangerous. And that’s what, but, but if you go with an outfitter, you can kind of sometimes make the best use of that tag. And so that’s what we’re trying to wrap our head around is when, when you make those decisions and, and if you’re gonna go self-guided, how do you re research that? If you’re gonna go guided, how do you prepare yourself for that? And so let’s talk a bit about the preparation of going on an outfitted hunt.

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I think on an outfitted hunt, obviously an outfitter gives you your best chance to maximize that tag. Whether it be a tag that you’ve drawn and waited for for 15 years, or it’s a a high dollar landowner tag. They, they’re gonna give you most likely your, you know, your best chance to maximize that tag. So they, they, they’re going to know the area, they’re going to know the gear, and really you’re paying them for their experience and, and how they get you into that area. And like you said earlier, it’s, these guys have busy lives and a lot of times there needs to be a lot of research on some of that unguided stuff. And a, a guy that’s got three kids and a job, he just may not have time to do it, but he still wants a great experience and maximize the tag.

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There’s a lot of great outfitters out there and they can get you in great guys to be around. And some of the best outfitters that I’ve been with, I’m still friends with today, Harold Grundy in the Northwest Territories of Canada. One a great friend of mine and you know, the owner of Ner River Outfitters and I went up there with him years ago and that was an outfitted hunt. And just he, Harold has it all together and there’s plenty of outfitters like that and the western US also that can help a guy maximize the tag and kind of his experiences do the thinking and the research for you upfront. And if, if getting a, a big animal is your your goal and you don’t have much experience, I I would highly recommend finding an outfitter. And you know, there are, there are a lot of good ones out there, but there are a lot of bad ones too. Yeah. And that’s, and you, you have to do your research

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And how, let’s say you’ve made that decision, I’m gonna do it. And let’s say you picked your outfitter and we could spend, and, and Jeff’s talked about a little bit about picking outfitters and going on guided hunts on an earlier podcast, but there are still things, you know, and I’m talking I guess from an outfitter guide perspective as well. And so, but, but I know, I mean, we all have done this long enough that there are things that you need to do and should do, even though you’ve hired somebody, they’re gonna be doing your scouting, they’re gonna have your camp, they’re gonna have that. What are the things, and I’m not talking shoot your gun and your bow. Those are things that we don’t, I I guess hopefully don’t just have to mention because you, you better be proficient with whatever weapon you’re bringing out. But there are other things that that, that you can do to prepare yourself to step into your hunt to make the most of it on your end. And not totally just say, all right, I’m here and, and I’m ready to be babysat for seven days.

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Well it goes to a lot of what Jason, I’ve heard him say a lot through the years of just, you need to be able to control the things that you can control. There are a few things you can control your conditioning, you can be in shape when you get there. You can know your equipment and, and you can have a good attitude about it. ’cause there’s gonna be highs and lows of any hunt. And how many camps have we shared with guys that are, you know, they look like they ate a, ate a lemon because they didn’t kill a buck on the first morning of the hunt. Sorry guys. This is hunting. We may be here two weeks. Yeah. And, but that’s the stuff you can control. And I think you owe it to an outfitter and your guide to, to be in good shape, to know your equipment, to have a good attitude about it. And it it, it raises your, your chance of success ex exponentially.

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I think you need to be honest, you need to have a frank discussion. If you know you have some limitations, don’t, don’t, don’t hide ’em. Have your outfitter find out about those when you step into camp when he has no ability to react with either selecting a different guide or a different part of the unit that he planned on putting you in or whatever. Try to be up front and, and I’m talking, when I’m talking limitations, I’m either talking, you know Yeah, physical, maybe you have, you know, the dietary, maybe it’s physical and dietary limitations be upfront. Because if you say something, you know, usually you draw these tags two to four or five months ahead of time. There’s a lot of time to prepare if you have things like that. If you have, you know, you know, sleep apnea or things like that and you know, you’re, you’re showing up out there and you end up being in a wall tent with two or three other hunters and you’re, you’re keeping ’em all awake and can’t be, you know, get a good night’s sleep ’cause you didn’t maybe divulge some of that or didn’t fly with your equipment ’cause you thought it was too big and bulky.

00:20:37:15 –> 00:21:27:29
I don’t know. I’m just talking about all things that I’ve had myself. I’ve seen in some of my camps that man really could have had a whole separate tent over for him if I just knew that it was, was, you know, he was gonna be that bad. You know, any, a lot of things be upfront with your outfitter, you know, be in shape and all those things that are in your control on your end. But don’t, don’t hide ’em either by, by choice or, or don’t, don’t keep something you think, you know, is a big part of how you want to hunt or how you like to hunt. If you’re like, Hey, I love to sit and I don’t wanna hike that much and, and all that. And he puts you with the most aggressive hiker just ’cause he is, you’re the one that booked first and you’re ready to go crush the out and all that. And you’re like, you know, I just like to sit water holes or whatever else. That’s something that’s my way to hunt out. You need to have a good dialogue with, with people and, and it, and it can go I guess too far sometimes. And, and maybe you’ve seen this Rogers,

00:21:28:12 –> 00:21:29:05
Don’t be whiny,

00:21:29:08 –> 00:21:44:12
Don’t be whi don’t think you need, eh, this is not hunting at Disneyland and you’re picking your animal and you’re taking him home with you. You know what I mean? Or at a zoo. It’s not, there’s too many variables that are out of an outfitter’s control. Even, even when they’re doing their job.

00:21:45:05 –> 00:22:43:28
It just seems like if you have several guys in the camp that dude, that dude is in every camp. The guy who’s never happy, the guy who’s upset, this is not what I signed up for. I didn’t know I’d have to walk a mile today and I thought, he told me I’d see 800 deer in, in a week. And it’s, there’s always that type of guy in camp and it’s just soak up the experience, but you, you owe it to the outfitter to do the research on him and, and, and beforehand and know all that stuff and be honest with him. Like, like you said out. And so many of that, so often that doesn’t happen. The guy shows up. I I can’t tell you how many hunts that that we’ve done or got it on that a guy will show up with a, a pair of boots in the box Oh, I know. At the airport. And you guys have seen that. Oh yeah. Got please don’t do that. Yeah. If you’re traveling, do not show up with a new pair of boots. Yeah. Have those boots broken three or four months before the hunt, you know, you

00:22:43:28 –> 00:23:26:11
Know, to digress a little bit when we talked about the guiding, guiding stuff a little bit and and whatnot is like, I, I did a guided guided hunt for Brown Bear, you know, this spring and, and, and I was new to the area and, and I have to legally have a guide and I understand that. But my point is, is I didn’t know how to the tide, how to read the tides and, and when to cross and when not to cross. And being out after dark with brown bears all around and things that I might’ve been, you know, nervous about bears in general, you know, these guides know it, they d deal with it every day. And so they help me feel like they help me learn. Like I could go back and be a lot more effective self-guided now I can’t legally do that.

00:23:26:25 –> 00:23:56:29
But that’s the same thing with here in the west is, like you said, there’s a lot of people that come out west, they don’t really know what they’re capable of. They don’t know what they’re capable of. They don’t know what’s normal. And yet you get a guy that kind of shows you the ropes when you come back, you, you could be lethal, unguided, you know what I mean? Just learning the ropes, learning how you do things, learning when you glass, what you glass with the gear you use and lots of things that, you know, there’s just a lot of learning that comes with, with going guided and, and experiencing new things.

00:23:57:27 –> 00:24:53:27
Yeah, I agree with that. And you can learn all that on guided hunts and your chance of success goes up. And I’m, I’m a fan of the guided hunt. You know, I’ll, at times I’ll, I’ll, I’ll do, I’ll guide for an outfitter like we mentioned earlier, GT nun and, and just the stuff that we’ve seen there through the years. And some of the hunters and the guys that repeat, they know what, they know exactly what they’re getting into. But the, the first year guys, it, it can be an eyeopening experience. You know, everything when you’re coming from the east and you go hunting the west, everything is bigger than what you read about what you see on tv. It, it’s, we’re so used to everything being com so compacted in, in the east, you know, I, I’ll hunt on 160 acre a quarter and I I can walk from one end to the other in 10 minutes and, but in the west, I mean, you walk, you walk that far just to get away from your truck sometimes.

00:24:53:28 –> 00:25:12:10
Yeah, that’s right. Well and it’s a little bit like us when, you know, when Jason and I have had opportunity to go up north to Alaska, bc, Yukon, and our mountains, we think we got big mountains. You get up there and you’re like, okay, these are mountain, these are mountains, these are, they never end as far as I can see.

00:25:12:21 –> 00:25:16:22
I’ve been in an airplane for two hours and it was one after another for two minutes.

00:25:16:28 –> 00:26:25:25
That’s right. So it’s a little bit like that one we go north, even Westerners go north for Easterners that hit the, the western us. But so let’s talk a little bit about, alright, so you’re making that decision to go unguided. Yeah. And, and, and obviously I, I think there’s a lot of things we can talk about for the first time, western hunter, there are species, maybe mule deer, maybe some of the western white tails and antelope where that’s not biting off more than you can chew per se. You can make those happen and, and even elk in some cases. There’s definitely plenty of instances of that. But let’s talk about some of the things that you, I mean obviously 20 something years ago and you started doing some of your western hunts on your own and, and then throughout the last 20 plus years, what are things that you, that you either learned by sad experience or did right the first time or whatever when you start looking at something from a research standpoint, networking and then dealing with, all right, I’m gonna come do this online. We talked a little bit about, hey, you gotta bring everything with you. It’s a drive, it’s a commitment. You have all your gear, but I’m talking about like breaking your unit down. How do you know where to go hunt? And you know,

00:26:26:08 –> 00:26:27:07
You know, like this is not

00:26:27:07 –> 00:26:28:09
All private land out there. Like

00:26:28:09 –> 00:26:36:10
When you and I went together and I make you do all the research because people aren’t gonna tell me anything, but they’ll tell you everything. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,

00:26:36:14 –> 00:26:36:22

00:26:37:23 –> 00:27:08:06
That’s true. There’s a lot of truth to that. And there’s so many opportunities now to network and find out knowledge as compared to just a few, just a few years ago, for example, I, one that really comes to my mind is I, I drew a sheep tag in Colorado quite several years ago and I didn’t have a network out there. So I put on one of the, I put on one of the websites, I drew a sheep tag and like

00:27:08:10 –> 00:27:09:16
Boite boite.com

00:27:09:16 –> 00:28:16:02
Yeah, it was both site. It was both site, you’re right. It was both site. And I put a message on there. I I drew the sheep tag and S 60 and looking for any information, anything, any access points anybody could help me with. And a, a guy, he, he sent me a message back on the bow side and he said, call me. I hunted it last year. I’ll tell you everything I know. Wow. And so I, I called the guy, he was a wealth of knowledge. His name’s John Gottlieb and he lived, he lived right there in the unit. He put me in touch with all the private landowner, shrack access, he had all his maps. He, he gave me everything. Well, John Gottlieb is turned into a very close personal friend now. And he helped me on that hunt. I got a great round and he was there to, to help me on that and just, I networked into him. And then fast forward six or seven years after that, John had moved to Montana and I drew a Montana round tag. Well guess who the first guy I call is, what do you know about two 13? And then John got me hooked up there, but I found him just on the internet.

00:28:18:08 –> 00:28:19:15
Found that on the internet then.

00:28:19:20 –> 00:28:25:04
And that was, and that was a long time ago back when Al Gore just invented the internet that was right after that. So

00:28:25:21 –> 00:28:26:02

00:28:26:15 –> 00:28:50:28
So now the internet’s like social media, Instagram, Facebook, I mean we got the whole world. And I mean, I know to some extent you don’t learn every deep dark secret there, but the ability to network now, whether it be through social media, the internet websites or through services like ours and our past member experience list. I mean, it’s, it’s never been a better way for a do it yourself. Self-guided. There’s inform

00:28:50:28 –> 00:28:52:28
To get more information than there’s ever been. Yeah, yeah.

00:28:52:28 –> 00:29:12:14
There is ways and, and you know, there’s, there’s plenty of ways to get it. I just remember an example, like I know Jason, when we drew that unit one elk tag in Arizona, we were driving down the road. I said, Hey, just stop right here. Let me go in and talk to this meat processor and this guy’s processing hundreds of elk a year. I bet here’s

00:29:12:15 –> 00:29:14:19
A lot of, I’m hiding in the truck drinking a Pepsi

00:29:14:22 –> 00:30:02:11
Or something. He stays in the truck, I go in and this guy, oh yeah, you gotta go down here. And what was it that we got detailed information from him, but I, I remember the guy telling us, if you go down this road and there’s a, he said, you, you can’t sit, there’s a little hidden road that turns back to the left and you, you can’t see it. But if you, if you’ll be looking for it, that’ll get you back into that area. And it, it was just a little tidbit like that, just a networking through him and through the years, some of the tags that I’ve drawn out west I’ve got on the internet and found local taxidermist. Yeah. Okay. Well I I drew a unit two 13 or unit six tag or what, what can you tell me about access points? You know, you, you don’t go, well, where do the guys kill all the big bucks. Yeah. I I never start that way, way say nobody’s

00:30:02:11 –> 00:30:09:10
Gonna help that. Yeah. Same with a biologist. You don’t call a biologist and say, where do I go to kill my three 80 bull? That’s not how you lead into it.

00:30:09:14 –> 00:30:27:15
It’s, it’s not gonna work that way. Usually I’ll, I’ll call and introduce myself. Hey, I’m a fellow taxidermist too. I, I drew a drew a great tag and in your area and just wondering if you could tell me about some access or you know, what kind of bucks to expect? What are you mounting each year? What should I hold out for?

00:30:27:21 –> 00:31:08:14
And I think too, and unguided wise, Roger, and you’re good at this is, is you’re not scared to drive. You’re not scared to come out and prec drive it, dovetail it into work, whatever you’ve gotta do to come out and, and boots on the ground, so to speak. So you’re confident when you’re visiting with guys, you know what you’re talking about or places and and whatnot. And so, and the people you’re talking to know, you’ve done a little bit of work on your own. You’re willing to work for it or, or you know, put some, put forth some effort, not just be given everything. And so you’ve done that a lot. You’ve, where you’ve come out and, and just, you know, and basically even you can live in the east, but you’re proficient at going unguided in, in the west.

00:31:09:06 –> 00:31:23:13
Well I think, you know, some of that is Susan trial and error. Some of that I’ve learned from you guys and you know, a lot of my scouting trips, like preseason type stuff, if I go out there, maybe nothing more than to learn how to access points in the area. Yeah. Just, just drive

00:31:23:17 –> 00:31:39:13
Just a ground truth, what you’ve already looked at on a map or been told. Yeah. Just see it with your own eyes and have the, have the apprehension erased. Like, okay, I’ve seen my unit. I, I know what it looks like now. It’s not a, on a flat piece of paper like I’ve been burning through my eyeballs. I’ve seen it.

00:31:39:13 –> 00:32:04:15
Because no matter how many maps you stare at, and no matter how long you stay on Google Earth, it’s gonna look different when you get there. And it also looks different than what you, what you were thinking. And it, you know, as an example of flying to Las Vegas, rent a Jeep and or fly in Albuquerque, rent a Jeep and go ride around for two days, you know, fly in on a Friday night, you drive the entire weekend, fly home on a Monday, I missed two days of work. Yeah.

00:32:04:19 –> 00:32:06:10
Buy, buy the, buy the extra insurance.

00:32:07:10 –> 00:32:26:07
Yeah. And yeah, yeah, for sure. But I just, just a road system in some of these units is so confusing. And if you do, if you go out and if you’re only scouting three days before the season in your two days, you’re just trying to figure out the road. You’ve almost burned all your scouting time just to how to figure out how to maneuver in the unit. Yeah.

00:32:26:26 –> 00:32:39:08
Tell us a little bit about, you know, dealing with other hunters, like what a shock it is. You’ll see something in the summer and then you come back and you’re in the seat during the season. I mean, you’re gonna be dealing with people and that’s the one thing you can’t prepare for.

00:32:39:26 –> 00:32:56:13
Contrast that with your normal easterners way of hunting. I mean, there’s public land, a national forest back east, but a lot of white tail hunters hunt have it to themselves, their own ground, their own lease ground. And they see another boot track and they put a bullet in the gun for another reason.

00:32:58:15 –> 00:33:17:00
Oh. Oh man. But that, that, that’s, that’s a good question because ev everything in the east is such a controlled environment. You know, I, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t chamber around, but I do know when I see an odd boot in the creek and I boot track in the creek in southern Iowa on, on my place there,

00:33:17:00 –> 00:33:18:11
Your blood pressure goes up,

00:33:19:00 –> 00:33:57:23
Wait a minute, that track is not there. And that’s not my buddy’s track. Yeah. So I, and but everything is so controlled in the east and it’s such a small footprint of where you’re hunting, you can control and look out for that. In the west it’s not that way. Everything is big. So many things you’re not in control of. And back to the point of going out and scouting during the summer, late summer, you see all these pristine areas and you drive for days and you don’t see people, you don’t see other vehicles. Then you go back to hunt in October and there are dudes everywhere. And that that was

00:33:57:23 –> 00:33:58:29
It turned into ville.

00:33:59:19 –> 00:34:16:17
Yeah. That’s, that’s what just blew my mind. Like where did they come from? And, and the, the, the, the odd thing, you know, for us eastern hunters is that if there’s, if there’s four of us in camp, there’s four of us hunting. That’s just the way it works. There’s no other people

00:34:16:25 –> 00:34:17:20
Camp know what’s coming here.

00:34:18:11 –> 00:34:28:06
And you go to Arizona, there’s one dude that’s got the tag. He’s got grandma, granny, no, he, you know, his aunts, uncle’s, cousins, neighbors.

00:34:28:23 –> 00:34:37:05
He used grandma’s points to get the tag. And then he’s enlisted the entire family and extended family. This is basically a family reunion. Yeah.

00:34:37:05 –> 00:34:42:00
And it’s like a little city. It’s a city of of people. And I’m glad that’s a,

00:34:42:15 –> 00:34:46:29
I’m glad you picked Arizona ’cause that sounds like Utah, but you said Arizona, so we’ll go with it.

00:34:48:01 –> 00:35:28:19
Well, either way I, I, Utah hasn’t been real kind to me on tags, so that, that’s why I don’t have much experience in Utah. But that’s, that’s a different thing for us guys coming from the east, is it, it’s a, it’s a much more controlled environment. There’s a very few hunters on the, on the gr the ground that you can control. But when you get out east, it, it is a different game and drama will happen. I mean, if you’re hunting on public ground and there’s quite a few tags there, you know, like a sheep hunt or moose hunt or something, you can get away from the people. You’re probably not going to have drama. You’re on a deer hunt and an elk hunt. Even in some of the tough draw units. No, you’re going to have some

00:35:28:19 –> 00:35:36:29
Drama Arizona strip, Henry Mountains. There’s more drama in those two places than anywhere. And they’re the most controlled deer tag units in the west. Yeah. And

00:35:37:03 –> 00:35:47:05
Well if, if, if you remember Jason, when, when you and I hunted Arizona unit one for elk, I took the worst cussing I ever took in my life from an 18 year old girl. Whoa,

00:35:47:18 –> 00:35:48:19
Remember that? Let’s hear about that.

00:35:48:26 –> 00:35:49:12
Oh my gosh.

00:35:49:12 –> 00:35:51:08
She, I, now that you say it, you

00:35:51:08 –> 00:35:51:19
Ripped me.

00:35:52:00 –> 00:35:54:29
I need to keep a journal. I don’t know how you remember all this stuff. Let’s hear

00:35:54:29 –> 00:35:56:23
About it. What’d you do? Just

00:35:56:23 –> 00:35:58:05
Shoot. There was shoot over her

00:35:58:05 –> 00:35:58:25
Head or what?

00:36:00:05 –> 00:36:56:14
There was a, there was an elk bugling on the mountainside and it was, it was a big bull. If you remember Jason, it was a big six point with a big like 18 inch kicker coming off the side. And I was, I was in there owning, you know, I was a hundred yards and he was up in cows and I was just thinking, I’m just gonna hang around. Maybe he moves around, makes a mistake or something, and I’m just sitting there and I, I hear a cow call from a distance and this cow call is getting closer and closer and I look and the girl is behind the bow and her boyfriend is about 70 yards behind her and he’s just cow calling. I think that they think they’re gonna walk right into this elk. Yeah. The whole herd leaves. They all leave. And I go out there and I’m just kinda like having my hands up, like, what’s going on? And she said, they winded you, they winded you, you ran those elk off and they could see her. She was in the wide open and she went on the barrage of cussing me. And I mean, she just

00:36:56:23 –> 00:36:58:05
Was, she just bombed you for 30 minutes.

00:36:58:10 –> 00:37:04:18
Oh my gosh. And I, I just kind of stood there and took it. I thought, you know, I’ve got daughters. I got a wife.

00:37:05:05 –> 00:37:10:00
I was shocked you stood and took it. I asked you, I’m like, dude, you didn’t even stand up for yourself.

00:37:10:11 –> 00:37:11:25
Oh, I’m, I’m standed intention.

00:37:11:25 –> 00:37:13:08
She crush, crush. You’re a gentleman. Roger. She

00:37:13:08 –> 00:37:14:05
Crushed you. Roger.

00:37:15:02 –> 00:37:43:29
I stood there and took it, but I was thinking, honey, I’m not gonna do anything to you, but I may stomp your boyfriend’s butt into a mud puddle over there. But, but he, he’s probably still over there blowing on the cow call. But it, it’s still, it was, it’s just drama and you expect that, well, the next day we went into another area, I never saw another hunter. Yeah. Never saw a boot track. But it, you gotta be prepared for something like that. And us eastern guys we’re not prepared for that. Well,

00:37:44:03 –> 00:38:40:26
And, and, and I think, yeah, there’s factors that, that lead that you need to keep in mind when it comes to this. In general, you’ll book a guided hunt for five to seven days. If you’re gonna do hunt on your own, you better plan for more time. Because if you’ve only got five to seven days and you’re self guided, learn it all, you’re gonna chew through. Like Jason said, I’ve, I do this on my own when I go outta state sometimes, well, I’ll do a hunt for eight or nine days and when it’s over, if I could hit rewind and take all of what I learned during that time and do it again, I would crush the place. But that’s just nor that’s normal and you’re gonna need more days. I’m not talking about, oh you can get lucky and kill a great deer, elk the first two days and go home. I’m talking about generally and the average time, you’re gonna have to take more time, more days to learn it, figure it out. Have the things like you said happen to you. Don’t get down, keep after it. Regroup, move, adapt. I guess that’s the best word to describe it.

00:38:41:01 –> 00:38:56:00
That that’s, I’ve never really thought of it quite that way, Adam, but if you’re, if you’re planning on a seven day hunt and you’re on public land with a considerable amount of tags in there, you can probably just kind of bet on losing a day or day or two of that hunt to some type of drama.

00:38:56:07 –> 00:38:57:08
Just something Yeah, just,

00:38:57:12 –> 00:39:13:19
It’s just I don’t plant hunting. Yeah, yeah. It’s just something is going to happen. You’re gonna have a flat, you’re gonna have somebody that blocks the road, you’re going to gets cussed out in the dark or, or and sometimes in these western units and people are just so much more, much aggressive. Well,

00:39:14:11 –> 00:39:18:11
It’s public land and there’s one winner Roger, there’s only one winner. Yeah.

00:39:19:00 –> 00:39:19:06

00:39:19:15 –> 00:39:20:25
That’s, that’s the way they look at

00:39:20:25 –> 00:39:43:24
It. It could be a cattleman. Yeah. And these, it could be a cattleman bring. Yeah. Bringing a sheep and cows off the mountain in two or 300 through your canyon. I’ve had that happen on hunts. And you’re just like, this day’s ruined, you’re, they’re, they’re yelling at their cow dogs cracking whips and whistling and you’re like, really? This is happening today with a a buck down in front of me somewhere right now. I mean, you’re done. You can’t predict about,

00:39:43:24 –> 00:39:58:06
There are so there are so many things that you cannot control. There are a few little things you can control. You gotta be in control of those and just learn to deal with the things that are gonna, the, the drama that’s gonna ensue. ’cause it is guaranteed.

00:39:58:21 –> 00:40:50:12
This podcast brought to you by outdoor edge knives and tools, credible knife system. They’ve got replaceable blades and they, and they don’t break on you. They’re a significant knife with a significant backbone and a long sharp blade. So anyway, we’ve kind of partnered with them, appreciate them and their support and if you need an incredible replaceable blade knife, you know, definitely look at outdoor edge. So anyway, what about, let’s talk a little bit about, you know, I guess technology. Are you, you know, are you using the Onyx maps and dealing with all that now that you know all that’s available and of course the mapping. I still am a fan of paper maps. I, I mean I do paper, I have electronic and the phone and I mean a little of everything, g p s chips and all that. But obviously you’re doing the same thing. I think

00:40:51:07 –> 00:41:12:26
I, I love the on the OnX maps and I, I like big paper where I can throw it out on the, the hood of the truck and look and get general stuff. But I, I love being able to zoom in on the OnX maps and yeah, I, I use the technology especially on that. I have a, I still have the old Garmin rhino that that’s, I don’t know if if you still have

00:41:12:26 –> 00:41:24:00
Here, it’s Oh, I do. Yeah. The we got them. Yeah, we got ’em. And mine, of course, yours the same way. I think the antenna, the rubber’s come off and I got this little wry antenna sticking out and it’s not waterproof anymore and I haven’t,

00:41:24:01 –> 00:41:57:00
I haven’t protected the screen good through the years, so the screen looks bad. But man, that, that thing has, has saved me a lot of steps and helped on better hunts and you know, I’ve used it everywhere I go. And now with the land ownership stuff that you can get on there also from some of these more Midwest type hunts and some of the white tail hunts I do. And seeing the landowners, I, that’s been a huge, a huge value to me. Yeah. Of trying to find the landowner. I thought, okay, well I, I know the guy’s name is John Doe and I’m gonna figure out where he lives and talk to him about his property.

00:41:57:04 –> 00:41:58:22
I’m gonna become his best friend. Yeah.

00:41:58:24 –> 00:42:19:11
Yeah. The, the answer’s usually no, but every once in a while the answer is yes. And we’ve got, we’ve killed some great bucks in Iowa by knocking on doors. I don’t know if that’s necessarily still the case, but we knocked on doors several years ago and secured great spots and have been producing giant bucks ever since.

00:42:19:13 –> 00:42:25:18
Well, and I, I mean, I don’t want to get off on it too bad, but you’re, you’ve even hunted places as small as 20 acres, you know,

00:42:26:27 –> 00:43:14:10
So yeah, we won’t, we won’t get off on that too much, but it’s just a, a quick one of those guys that gave me access to this place in Iowa, I I’ve, I went into a little spot behind his house and it was just shredded with big rubs, which all this eastern hunters, it, it gets us excited. So I hung a stand up there and the next morning I got in the stand and I could see a light down through the woods. And my first thought was, that’s, that’s a, it’s a flashlight down there. And I, I got pulled my binos up and looked and I could see the guy through his kitchen window making coffee. And I thought, man, I am truly right behind his house. And, but it was such a small parcel of land. And then 10 minutes later, 160 inch buck walked up on a suicide mission. I shot him at eight yards right there behind the guy’s house,

00:43:14:13 –> 00:43:16:00
Went and had to gut him in the front yard.

00:43:17:16 –> 00:43:19:16
Probably spilled his coffee when the gunshot went off.

00:43:19:26 –> 00:43:22:14
Yeah. He, he ran away from the house, which was a good thing.

00:43:23:02 –> 00:43:30:10
So was there, what do you, is there any secrets to success Roger? Like just flat out secret to success here in the west?

00:43:31:10 –> 00:44:02:11
I don’t, I don’t think there is a secret and I I I’ve learned that a lot of that from just like, hunting with you guys too and you know, sharing a lot of camps with you guys. And I guess the thing that I’ve learned about the secret that, about the big mule deer that Jason Carter kills is there is no secret there, there is no method that you’re not telling everybody about. When I listen, you tell these guys how to hunt the west. I I know that’s exactly how you’re killing those bucks. There, there is no big secret to doing it. It’s,

00:44:02:11 –> 00:44:28:17
Well, the difference is you do it repeatedly. You don’t quit and you adapt. It’s like there’s 14 different methods to kill a big mul deer. They vary by hunt, by unit, by season, by rutt timing you better have ’em all in your arsenal and you better not quit and you better just be able to know when to move from plan A to B to F and, and keep and just keep at it and it’s a grind. And yeah. So that’s probably what you’re, I dunno,

00:44:29:01 –> 00:44:54:28
Mouth. I, I think that’s, yeah, that’s one thing is I see especially being able to hunt with you guys through the years is that, you know, a lot of guys in these things, the hunts in a day and week type periods, like six, eight day type stuff is an extended hunt. Know some of these bucks or some of these rams that you guys get after you’ve got 25, 30, 40 days after some of these animals. Yeah. And that’s hard for us eastern guys to understand that. Well,

00:44:54:28 –> 00:45:21:25
And it’s hard, we realize that some of those hunts that’s not practical for Right. Most people to come do. And, and I guess to some extent people say, well yeah, if I had that much time, I’d, I’d get it done when there’s been times that that’s not been enough. Even for Jason, we had that hunt. You came out on us with this, that archery hunt. I think I hunted 12 or 13 and Jason in like 16 days was terrible archery deer. And we got schooled. It was terrible. And that’s a long hunt. And we, I

00:45:21:25 –> 00:45:23:06
Don’t even wanna redo on that. We

00:45:23:08 –> 00:45:26:17
Took it on the chin. No, I don’t want it. But what,

00:45:26:29 –> 00:45:53:01
What about Roger, let’s talk about packing gear. You know, I know a lot of eastern hunters, you know, they’re used to having clean clothes every single day. And I mean, you know, there’s a lot of times where you just pack too much, you know, at times and whatnot. So what’s important, what’s on your checklist? What’s important? And is there any, you know, little hidden gems or secrets you can tell us that maybe I’m not overlooked? ’cause it’s just part of what’s in our truck today for Summer Scout.

00:45:53:08 –> 00:46:48:19
I, I think you, you’ve already said one of the most important things, and that is a checklist. Having a checklist is very important. Most eastern hunters, myself included, tend to always bring too much. When we’re hunting the west or via guided or unguided, we tend to bring way too much stuff. I think a checklist helps on that. If, if you’re doing the first hunt out west, your, your checklist is gonna be too big. But all these guys I’ve talked to, especially like on the, the hunter next door, a lot of those guys keep checklists and they realize that they took a lot of stuff the year before that they didn’t use. So every year their checklist just gets smaller and smaller and you realize there’s very few things that you really use. You got the optics, you got rain gear and close. You don’t need many clothes out west, and you guys can probably speak on this, the hunts are much more mobile than people are, are used to.

00:46:48:19 –> 00:47:46:16
In the east, you’re moving a lot of times so you don’t have to have as many clothes. And plus the seasons are earlier. I’ve, I’ve tell a lot of hunters on most western hunts, you’re gonna be cold more than you are hot. But for a guy from Mississippi and he’s going to Colorado, he’s pretty sure he is gonna be wading through snow in September. That that doesn’t happen. You’re gonna be sweating a lot more than you’re shivering a lot more. So it doesn’t take many clothes. And if, if you’re going with an outfitter, make sure the outfitter can give you a good checklist. And there’s plenty of good checklists that you can resource on the internet and read about. And your membership, you know, you, I know you guys talk about some of the stuff that guys need on these hunts, but it’s just not much. I don’t have anything real secretive that I carry. The one thing that I I will always carry is extra socks. And I, I’ve just had seen so many hunts go bad because of

00:47:47:05 –> 00:47:47:24
Beat pros.

00:47:48:02 –> 00:48:10:20
Yeah. Feet problems. Yeah. You, you, you get blisters. You, you get sore feet. I carry extra socks. But I’ve learned it doesn’t take many clothes to go on a western hunt. And my, there’s nothing real dramatic about my, my pack list. I’m a big fan of the hillenburg tents. I locked the kenreck boots.

00:48:11:02 –> 00:48:34:08
Well, your next, your next article in Epic Outdoors Magazine, Roger, let’s, let’s have it be the checklist. Let’s, let’s call it the checklist and let’s talk about gear and then maybe we publish an actual checklist of gear. Your, your checklist of gear. Yeah. And maybe we can do a, you know, a regular out west hunt and then a backpack trip to Canada or something? Maybe. Or we could do a part one, part two. Sound good? Yeah.

00:48:34:22 –> 00:48:47:13
Yes. That’s great. I’ve that, that checklist of my tag applications that you were making fun of earlier. Also keep a checklist on, or I keep an Excel spreadsheet on all my checklists too. And

00:48:48:07 –> 00:48:50:22
If it wasn’t for Excel rod, you wouldn’t even be able to hunt.

00:48:51:01 –> 00:48:57:17
I, I, I think word, word is just a, a waste of good hard drive space. Everything, everything belongs in Excel.

00:48:58:13 –> 00:49:00:24
You probably good at math. Are you good at math?

00:49:01:19 –> 00:49:03:02
That’s my degree. There you go.

00:49:03:05 –> 00:49:04:19
Is it? Holy cow. I didn’t know

00:49:04:19 –> 00:49:40:08
That. I didn’t know that. Yeah, we talked several times today about boots and specifically Kenna track boots and keeping your feet taken care of on a hunt. And we actually did a, a YouTube episode on this with the Kenna Track folks about taking care of your feet and things like that. So check it out on Epic Outdoors YouTube page. We’d also like to thank Q You for being another sponsor of ours here at Epic Outdoors and this podcast. They make great gear from packs and clothing and everything like that. Check ’em [email protected]. They’re gears incredible. No matter what kind of western hunt you’re gonna be going on. Well,

00:49:40:08 –> 00:49:49:16
Let’s see. Roger, do you want to talk about travel or, or, you know, anything like that so that we might take, take, take for granted?

00:49:50:10 –> 00:50:25:06
Yeah. You know, we, we mentioned it, I think it’s on that earlier podcast too, about the, the eastern hunter has to think traveling out west, you got a minimum one day travel. And a lot of these guys, especially up and down the east coast, are gonna have two. Just knowing that that can, that’s tiring in itself. I do not like to sit behind a, a wheel for a steering wheel for two days. And you don’t want be just exhausted when you get there. So you either build in more time or you decide to fly. And if you decide to fly, then you can’t carry all your gear, so you may have to go outfitted

00:50:25:06 –> 00:50:25:23
Yeah. Trade-offs.

00:50:25:23 –> 00:50:43:24
That’s right. There’s a lot of trade-offs on that. I, when I drew my Montana round tag, I, I, I had to drive to Western Montana and that was a two day drive for me. And I just remember, man, I was just exhausted when I got there, even though the adrenaline of the tag was seeing go, go, go. I was tired when I got there.

00:50:44:24 –> 00:50:45:27
Wow. And, yep.

00:50:45:29 –> 00:50:47:03
Yeah, exactly. Well,

00:50:47:11 –> 00:50:57:24
And you, you guys don’t, for you guys to hunt west, even in some of the most extreme guys drives that you guys have, there’re still less than a day’s drive away. Yeah, eight,

00:50:57:24 –> 00:51:02:00
Eight to 12 hours and we’re about any state, any part of any state really. Yeah.

00:51:02:02 –> 00:51:17:07
And a lot of these guys from the east, you know, they’re driving 12 hours and they’re still not even into the Midwest yet. Yeah. So it’s, it’s a, it’s something that has to be factored in as drive time once you get these tags or decide that you wanna go on one drive time versus, versus flying

00:51:17:10 –> 00:52:11:25
Well and driving that home again, if you’re gonna do a self-guided hunt out west and you’ve got a day or two drive and you’re worn out and then you think you’re gonna get there and start figuring it out, you better plan for three to five more days than you think you need on to do, to do it justice. And I realize everybody’s schedule, there’s work and, and family and all that, but it’s just, we value these tags out west, like, like gold to some extent and all, not all tags do we value that way, but when you get a good one, value it like it is, if you had to go purchase that tag on the open market, an elk tag for $10,000 in the landowner unit, or 15,000 or deer tag for 10, 20, 34, 50 plus thousand and some of these elite deer tags, that’s, that’s what you’ve got the equivalent of. And don’t, don’t under under prepare and under think through what you actually gotta do to do it. Right. You can

00:52:11:25 –> 00:52:32:02
Do it on your own. Control the thing, like you said, control the things you can control and, and a lot of it, like Adam says, the value’s unbelievable and maybe even priceless. They might not even be available to buy like your, you know, our, our tags in Arizona. You, you can’t buy those, you know, and so, and you can never draw ’em again most likely. So. Yeah.

00:52:32:10 –> 00:52:55:26
And I, I think one thing you had said Adam made me think is factoring in that drive home. ’cause you’re not going to be driving, you’re not gonna be covering ground on the way home like you did going out there. It’s not nearly as exciting. You’re warmed out driving home with a unit, 40 elk tags fill in your pocket and you know, oh gosh, I got 18 hours to drive to get home. Yeah. You’re just not gonna cover as much country. You’re

00:52:55:26 –> 00:52:57:25
On the life support driving home, you’re

00:52:57:25 –> 00:53:02:11
Motivated to go see your wife and kids and you’re just, you’re you’re drained. Yeah.

00:53:02:11 –> 00:53:04:20
Hopefully, hopefully motivated to see your wife.

00:53:05:22 –> 00:53:06:14
I’m motivated.

00:53:09:08 –> 00:53:16:18
Hey, anything else, Roger, as we wrap it up? Anything that we, that you thought we maybe should cover or things that have kind of crossed your mind?

00:53:17:14 –> 00:54:26:25
Well, I, I think one thing that I was have been thinking about is you see more and more articles on these solo western hunts and I’ve had so many friends from back east have tried to attempted to do those as those have really got kind of glorified over the last few years of a do it yourself solo type hunt. And I would caution a guy, if you’re considering one of those, know what you’re getting into. ’cause a lot of my friends that have done that, they have never gone and been by themselves in silence for six or seven days. Yeah. And that it’s, it’s not for the faint of heart. And I would even contend some of the guys that write these glorious stories about doing that. They’re not doing many of these on their own either. Yeah. There, there’s usually some other guy or some other human that they can interact with around these camps. And I’ve just had so many friends over the last five years that, that drew a good tag in the west and decided they, they wanted to go solo and it’s going to be a do it yourself deal. And you know, four days later they’re back in Arkansas

00:54:27:16 –> 00:54:27:23

00:54:28:21 –> 00:54:45:26
Well, what happened? Well, the area’s a lot bigger than I thought. I didn’t research that very well. And one guy was just, just honest. He said, I have never heard it that quiet at night. I I didn’t hear a sound. I couldn’t even hear an airplane flying over. He said, it drove me absolutely doners.

00:54:46:13 –> 00:54:53:08
I never thought there was that many stars up there. I figured they were all spaceships looking down at me, UFOs looking at me. I got scared and went home.

00:54:53:29 –> 00:54:56:04
And he said, you know, he wouldn’t hear a

00:54:56:04 –> 00:54:57:08
Sound idiot was coming my way.

00:54:58:22 –> 00:55:00:10
No, it’s a good point. It really is.

00:55:00:25 –> 00:55:11:22
It would get real quiet at night. Then he said, then you hear a stick break. And he said he knew that was a grizzly that was gonna kill him. And you know, there hadn’t been a grizzly in southern New Mexico in a hundred years.

00:55:12:15 –> 00:55:16:23
Yes. I thought you were gonna say Wyoming. Oh my gosh. But,

00:55:17:01 –> 00:55:33:07
But you know, it’s, it gets in their head like, okay, I’m gonna be the first American casualty by a wolf. That wolf is going to eat me. And these guys, their mind tends to run away with them. And I’ve, I’ve warned a lot buddies about, about that. And it, it’s really,

00:55:34:22 –> 00:55:44:06
You see it on a and we enjoy doing it with people like I, we, we enjoy going with friends and, and enjoy, you know, sharing a harvest, you know, with each other. Yeah.

00:55:44:06 –> 00:56:01:07
I, it’s, I enjoy the comradery and I, I’ve enjoyed it with you guys. I, I remember that bad Nevada deer hunt you guys were on. I laughed as hard as I have ever laughed in my life several different times on that hunt. I don’t even remember the stories, but I think

00:56:01:07 –> 00:56:05:01
I remember they were referenc. I remember those. I don’t have a good memory, but that was too

00:56:05:01 –> 00:56:09:05
Close. A truckload of a truckload of those carbonated beverages got

00:56:09:19 –> 00:56:12:07
My brother that was, that was there. Yeah,

00:56:12:21 –> 00:56:12:28

00:56:12:28 –> 00:56:13:08
Were drinking

00:56:13:10 –> 00:56:17:16
All that, that ate the concrete out of my garage there

00:56:17:16 –> 00:56:20:06
Was it, it came, one of them blew up or spilled

00:56:21:03 –> 00:56:25:26
And it did a little s in my garage and that ss stands today in my garage. Oh. But

00:56:26:05 –> 00:56:44:13
It, it, you know, I remember a lot of stuff like that and I remember the friends that that’s what, you know, I want the big animal. I want to put the big critter on the wall, you know, as much as the other guy. But as I get older, I really find value in the friendships and the comradery and just the characters that I’ve got to meet through the years. Well

00:56:44:13 –> 00:57:28:18
There’s a and that’s a very good point because I often daily here at the office when I talk to people and they call us and they, they’re excited. They drew a great tag and you’re asking ’em, all right, how can we help you? Are you gonna plan on doing this on your own? Are you gonna go an outfitter? If you’re go an outfitter, you, you give ’em some options and they go down the road, they pick one, they go if they’re gonna do it on their own, usually the next question, especially if it’s a tag of, I’ll say consequence. And, and what I mean by that is epic proportions. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a really good tag. I mean, I’m not talking about a deer tag. You can draw every single year a general tag somewhere. I’m talking about a tag that really deserves the, their attention is do you have a good support network of family or friends?

00:57:28:28 –> 00:58:18:04
Is somebody gonna come help you on that hunt? Because if you’re gonna do self-guided, that pretty much has to happen. Otherwise I’ll change my tone and say, you know, you better get some help. Because if you really think, no, I don’t really have any friends and I’m just gonna come do it, I’m like, you really, I think you’re setting yourself up to be disappointed. What you’re reading on paper, on the unit is, is not, is not likely to happen as well when you’re all by yourself and there’s, there’s satisfaction in hunting, self-guided, but at the same token, you’re gonna push yourself harder when you have somebody else pushing you at camp at night. Hey, we’ll get ’em tomorrow, let’s go break it up here. You just, just somebody to talk to at a camp trailer at camp at night. Even if your buddy’s off all in his own, helping you look in a different area, it just keeps the ball rolling better than, than let discouragement creep in. There’s something to be said to that.

00:58:18:04 –> 00:59:19:10
That’s a good point, Adam. I I keeping your attitude up is a lot easier when you got a buddy with you. Yeah. Those solo hunts. You, you can let your mind go to a bad place pretty quick when there’s nobody there with you. And I’ll, I’ll watched a a, a kid do that a few years ago on one of those wheeler peons, he had drawn the sheep tag and he was hunting by himself. He, he wanted to be by himself. We’d visit with the guy in the parking lot and he wanted to be by himself. And I just watched him through the spotting scope a couple days and thought, man, this kid, I, I was watching him walk past sheep, you know, good rounds and he was not seeing ’em. And that I was watching how fast he was walking. You could tell the guy was just kind of frantic and I don’t know if he ever got around, but that, the week that we were there, he never got one. I thought, you know what, what would he have done if he had a buddy Just kind of helping him, slowing him down, helping him look, you know, some comradery at camp at night, just helping you cook food and heat up water and stuff is, is a value.

00:59:19:10 –> 00:59:31:11
Well it’s like, and it’s like your goat hunt, you know, know we hike for how many miles to get into the good, awesome, amazing goat country. We don’t see any. Right. Yeah. So if you’re by yourself pretty soon you’re like, geez, I could be hunting gators in Arkansas or

00:59:32:23 –> 00:59:39:10
Yeah, make the mistake of turning your phone on and you get 14 emails and something at work and then your wife and pretty soon you’re like, ah, hell, I’m just driving home.

00:59:39:19 –> 00:59:47:01
Yeah, your kids like, I miss you daddy and mama’s needing you. And pretty soon you’re like, nah, I didn’t like goats, I didn’t like goats. Anyway.

00:59:47:01 –> 00:59:48:16
Yeah. They’re only spikes, you know,

00:59:49:00 –> 01:00:06:26
I’ve had so many friends come back to Arkansas two or three days later with the tag in their pocket and the last five years or so, I just tell ’em, do not go on your own. Yeah. It, it’s, it’s not worth it. You know, get somebody to go with you or hire an outfitter. You know, you need some human camaraderie and you do.

01:00:07:02 –> 01:00:08:02
Keeps you going. Yeah. It

01:00:08:05 –> 01:00:10:08
And it’s fun. It, it’s tough to do these on your own

01:00:10:12 –> 01:00:22:11
Phone a friend. It’s fun. Phone a friend. There you go. We should do a hire a friend business, you know, hire a, hire a companion. We get going here, we’re gonna come up with a $500 idea one way or another. So,

01:00:22:23 –> 01:00:27:25
So just like a hunting escort business. What do you, where are you going Carter?

01:00:28:05 –> 01:00:29:29
I didn’t, I wasn’t going down that road.

01:00:30:01 –> 01:00:35:12
Well I’m just saying like, you know somebody to keep your spirits up. Yes, yes. Tell you jokes.

01:00:35:22 –> 01:00:37:14
Yes. Boil tell you jokes.

01:00:37:26 –> 01:00:38:22
A a motivational

01:00:38:22 –> 01:00:44:07
Speaker. Help me make my sound for you. Western Heart. Yeah. Okay. A a Doctor Phil to go with you on your head.

01:00:45:15 –> 01:00:47:24
Geez. All alright. Anything?

01:00:48:01 –> 01:00:49:10
I think we’re going nowhere. Not Oh

01:00:49:14 –> 01:00:54:16
Yeah. Anything else, Raj, that we can, that we should bring up or crossed your mind?

01:00:56:13 –> 01:00:59:03
I think we need to work on those checklists and we’ll, we’ll get those

01:00:59:04 –> 01:01:00:17
In. Let’s do that. Let’s do get those out

01:01:00:26 –> 01:01:01:05

01:01:01:05 –> 01:01:12:05
Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Let’s do a part one, part two or else page one and two and then three and four, you know. Yeah. Heavy backpack versus just coming out and doing something that you have access to a vehicle. Yeah,

01:01:12:05 –> 01:01:16:14
Some, we can do some stuff as simple as Midwest white tail and

01:01:16:26 –> 01:01:18:07
We don’t care about those. Roger.

01:01:18:22 –> 01:01:19:21
Well you don’t, but

01:01:19:21 –> 01:01:19:25

01:01:21:01 –> 01:01:23:01
I know you don’t, you, you don’t even know what they look like.

01:01:23:01 –> 01:01:25:21
Let’s, let’s stick to west of Kansas. Yeah.

01:01:26:20 –> 01:01:28:01
They’re still there.

01:01:29:03 –> 01:01:29:15

01:01:29:15 –> 01:02:16:17
True. Well I keep bringing these white tail up like Kansas and Idaho as and Eastern Colorado. I think it gives these eastern hunters a good transition. You know, it, it is. Rather than just going full blown out Utah elk hunt, you know, spend $10,000 and hike for seven or eight days and don’t get one. You’re burnout. Go get a little bit of western flavor. You know, like, I know you guys have talked about it some like those Idaho whitetails, it’s not very hard to kill 130 inch white tail in northern Idaho on public land. It’s not very hard. And that’s something that some of these guys should consider can do. And you, you can do that on a, a very econo budget. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve done it. Fly into Spokane, drive up and it’s a great hunt.

01:02:16:28 –> 01:02:19:19
Yeah. Sounds good. Well, okay.

01:02:19:28 –> 01:02:29:05
Appreciate your time, Roger. It’s been great. Your perspective’s g you know, great. Probably echoed by a lot of other listeners, so we appreciate your time you spent with us here

01:02:29:05 –> 01:02:33:06
On this. I guess one thing in closing here, we talked about these no more,

01:02:33:16 –> 01:02:34:20
No more Lady Gaga stories.

01:02:35:07 –> 01:03:11:00
No, no more though. But you know, one thing we’ve talked about Jason, is there’s a lot of great hunters out there that we don’t know about that have great stories any guy’s got, you can expose us to some of those guys. You know, like the ones that we’ve come across, like the Ron Jenkins or oh geez, Harold, Harold Fairbrook out of Colorado that you, you guys included in that Hunter next door. I like talking to those guys and we can put it on paper. There’s some great stories out there that we’d all like to hear about. And if, if somebody listening to this has those guys call Jason, Adam, let ’em know and we’ll get ’em in. We

01:03:11:00 –> 01:03:18:24
Did a Ron Jenkins podcast, we just, it’s gonna require a little editing. Chris hasn’t found,

01:03:18:24 –> 01:03:21:21
He’s a fascinating guy with a fascinating story. Oh,

01:03:22:06 –> 01:03:41:17
Chris hasn’t found a spare two weeks to deal with that one though. He’s a, he’s one of the greats. I, we are gonna publish that at some point. But I agree with you, anybody out there that’s got something, you know, people like the, people like stories and they’re learning from these stories as much as anything. So I like that. I, I appreciate you throwing that out there. So

01:03:42:15 –> 01:03:44:05
Thanks again, Roger. Appreciate

01:03:44:05 –> 01:03:45:14
It. Yeah, thank you fellas. See

01:03:45:14 –> 01:03:46:02
Ya. Alright, thanks Roger.