EP 109: Developing a Personalized Application Strategy. In this episode of The Epic Outdoors Podcast Jason Carter and Adam Bronson lead a conversations about the importance of formulating a plan and having structure when it comes to applying across the west. They talk about their personal philosophies and how they see things when it comes to applying. Applying in multiple states can be a daunting task without proper understanding of each state as well as ones own personal goals and aspirations. By taking into account all of these factors we can better plan for the future and make the most of our limited years in the field with family and friends.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

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You need to have an application strategy. That makes sense. That’s a well thought out strategic plan.

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Don’t be afraid to fail, don’t let your points hold you hostage.

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Anything to do with Western big Games.

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To the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Back in the day, we had an 84 Toyota and the guy that bought it was like a grandpa to me. He never had kids. He was 70 or 80 years old. We lived in Moab and, and my dad would send me out with him trapping in case something happened to him. Right. And so I would drive his truck on dirt roads and stuff. And anyway, he was bragging one day he’s like, yeah, you know I got this truck. And, and, and he was so excited about it. And my dad was like, well what kind of options did you get? And he goes, well it’s got a heater. It had a heater. The only option. Radio deleted. The radio was gone. There was just nice

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Little company there.

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Yeah, no ac, no cruise, no nothing. Amazing. It even had seats. You know what I mean? And so anyway, your dad, it’s amazing how far we’ve come, but my buddy, but he’s probably buddy Clin, my buddy used to be excited about intermittent wipers. ’cause the wipers, instead of just being on or off or on fire off it was intermittent, was actually a timed feature. And that was an option in his mind.

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Millennials’ brains are exploding.

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They’re like, what are you talking about? Like, you talk to our kids about what it’s like to roll your window up with the thing.

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What is roll it

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Roll up. Like they don’t even know where the term rollup came from. No. Oh

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Like well roll up. Well roll up. We, whether it’s electric window or not. You say roll it up.

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They’re like, you mean they,

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They like What do you mean? You mean push it up? Push. Oh

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Dad, I never knew that’s where that term came from.

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What is the break off on millennials anyway? I don’t know. What is the age? I don’t know

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What that is. 1999. Chris,

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Are you a

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Millennial? I think so. You think

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So? Chris is definitely a millennial.

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Yeah, we’ll call him that.

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But he did stay away from cell phones and texting for a long time. Tell

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You remember did.

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I was 21 before I had a cell phone.

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Yeah. Let’s

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See. And then these

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Guys had smart phones before. I did. Yes. I did not want one. I just kept my flip phone for as long as I could.

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It was smart.

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What about it was

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Smart? You

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Don’t remember those

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Little 18 phones. But then once you switch you’re like, how did I do it? ’cause I do so much on

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Like, pretty much That’s how you date now?

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Well that and scheduling and everything. Well, even

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In the mid eighties, like I had an 87 ranger when I started driving. You gotta turn the hubs in. You want a four wheel drive? You gotta get out when

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You’re stuck.

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You usually try to get away with everything. ’cause you gotta get out to turn ’em in. So usually you’re buried when you need to put hubs in. Yes. You’re already buried. Yep.

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And above the

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Hubs. Above the,

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So you gotta shovel out your tire to turn the hubs in and hope it’s not jam packed with ice mud. And it’ll actually turn. Yeah,

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We ended up with an old 94 Toyota and it’s got turn in hubs. And my boy’s like, I love the turn in hubs. I’m like, why? I don’t get it. How should you know? And he’s like, well dad, doesn’t that lock everything in place? I’m like, no, that’s just four wheel drive. Oh,

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It’s not lockers that came around in the millennial age.

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Yeah. So that’s crazy. What are we gonna talk about today?

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Well, we talked about trucks, but that’s,

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Yeah, we’re covering topics here, man. We’re crushing. We

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Just did the wives podcast. Yeah,

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That’s good. For one a year. At least one a year or two years before we have to do a repeat, right?

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We’re gonna talk about Jeff’s wife next time. No, maybe Jeff and Chris married Chris. We’ll have you guys on, you guys can talk about the struggles of going through this.

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Okay. The difference is, I mean, just to throw this out there, and the difference is for me, I had a full-time job that was not involved in anything to do with the hunting industry. So he’s

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Just, just, he’s just justifying. Oh,

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The spreadsheet? No, no. Well, just to clarify. Yeah. My wife kept a spreadsheet on every dollar spent this year on hunting. Oh, that’s not good. Like a full spreadsheet. Like she’s got an Excel spreadsheet. She everything. She takes a credit card statement and just tick, tick, tick. Okay. There’s that tick, tick, tick. There goes that. Anyway, when you go open, we’re digress there. When you

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Go to open up accounts, you can say Jeff only or Jeff and Angie. Okay. Or you open up a credit card, Jeff only. Oh, with the bill coming to Epic or Jeff and Angie. Oh,

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My problem is, is I, I leave it to her to take care of all that because imm a slacker with it. So I You’re not gonna

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Get away with anything.

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So yeah, it’s

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You’re not condoning people.

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No, no.

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Keeping things from their wives. ’cause second

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Accounts is a bad thing.

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Also known as the Shell game.

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What’s that? Shell

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Game. The shell game. Remember like, well you apply for 500 or a thousand dollars at a time and Oh honey, don’t worry. We’re getting that back. And it’s just the shell game. And then that money comes back.

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Yeah. You explained this on the podcast. Used in

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This, the same money gets got used in three or four states and no harm, no foul. Well, it’s hard to explain that when you’re broke, broke, broke

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And non-refundable hunting license fees don’t come back to you.

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There’s a few

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Getting worse

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And worse. Few incidentals

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Submit, they keep a little bit that’s just wrapped up and they

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Little more

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And they send the US back and then I use it to play for Colorado. And then they use the same money and I, and they’re like, well, what happens when you do draw? Duh.

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It’s a once in a lifetime, honey. It’s all good. Yeah, we, you guys talked about that. That was a great podcast, you guys. I gotta say, you know, listen to it. It was awesome.

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It was all right. I think there was a few inaccuracies portrayed by the women, but let’s go forward. So today we’re gonna talk about our application strategies. Might even get, maybe even start off with the theories. We have a lot of crazy theories that will float around here about three and four in the morning, morning when we start getting wound up. But before we do, we wanna thank Under Armour for sponsoring these podcasts. We appreciate them and their partnership as all of our partners here at Epic Outdoors. We publish a monthly magazine December through June, bimonthly remaining part of the year when we’re out hunting. And there’s nothing to apply for, so to speak. There’s a few here and there, Texas, Arizona, bison, a few things like that. But anyway, we do appreciate them. They sponsor everything we do and, and such a great partner. Got a lot of great products and and proud to be associated with them. And there’s really none of our partners that we’re not proud of. They’re, they’re all really good friends of ours and make phenomenal products. And so shout out to ’em. Alright, well let’s jump into this, Bronson.

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Yeah, we thought about, we, we each wrote an article in the January issue of the magazine just, just basically going over Jason and I’s thought process of how we go, how we approach every year. And rather than just going line upon line through that, which I think there are a few main topics there that we could do that, but maybe that will be part two or three of this podcast. But we just kind of want to talk about philosophy of getting tags in general. And I don’t know how long that’s gonna take us today, but it really seems like, and and we’ve really, I don’t know, have changed our view, but really maybe just reinforced the last couple years. Our either our own philosophy or, and it comes from talking to clients too, whether it be our license application clients or hunters that call us wanting advice on where should I play, how do I use my points?

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I wanna get the most out of ’em, bang for the buck. You know, it’s a great moisture years. The right moon phase, you know, is a unit on the upswing. Downswing. And man, they’ll, some people will overthink things to death to the point they do points only and they’re in the same boat next year. Yes. Or they play it so conservative, they never burn any their points. And so they’re getting older. We’re all getting a day older. Some of these people may, you know, maybe they’re in their sixties or approaching seventies and they’re still doing points only and not telling, we’re not today gonna try to preach to everybody to do things like we do. But I think if anything else, the message of get after it and use your points, don’t let ’em ho hold you hostage. Let’s talk about that for a bit.

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That’s right. And I think what we were talking about earlier today, and I’d just like to bring that up again, is point systems are great. You know, all the states have different systems and way of allocating tags. There’s a finite resource and there’s a lot of demand for that resource. And so how do you do it? And, and, and of course the states wanna maintain budgets and, and stay in the black. And so there’s a lot of, you know, so they need to extract some cash out of us, let’s be honest. But as we go forward, we, you know, we were talking about we love all these states, it’s nice to New Mexico doesn’t have a point system or, or Idaho doesn’t have a point system or whatever. So it’s nice to have that. It’s also nice to go to Colorado like deer and elk or whatever, antelope, and be able to know when you can get drawn.

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You can make a plan, right? Yeah. A plan ahead. But those points are holding us hostage. Like Adam’s talking about like, like Utah, it’s, it’s a whole different ballgame over in Colorado. We can draw with 1, 2, 3 points or even leftover tags and gain a point right here in Utah, it’s unbelievable. You get one elk tag in 20 plus years or whatever and, and because I’ve spent 20 years getting these points, I’m gonna make the most of this specific tag. And there’s so much pressure. The weather needs to be right. The an our growth needs to be right. The, oh my buddies need to get the time off and not only am I gonna take the time off, I’m gonna take a week or two off and preseason and put so much emphasis on this particular tag that they do it right. You’re seeing teams of hunters, you’re seeing guys hire guides that wouldn’t otherwise hire guides. And it’s putting pressure on these animals and it’s decreasing the age class, so to speak. These guys are making good on, on, on trophy animals because it’s their one shot in their life.

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And being a resident, you’ve only been putting in for elk or you’ve only been putting in for deer. This is it. Like you can realistically think yourself, I’m only gonna draw this quality tag in the next 20 years maybe.

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Yeah, they do have random components to the draw, but that’s kind of where Jason’s going. I think the states like Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, that have a, well Arizona to some extent can throw that into a percentage of their tags that are given to the maximum point holders. Those are maybe the states. Let’s talk about those first because those are the ones, and Nevada you can kind of lump in even though it’s a random draw and they square your points. I think people still hoard Nevada points for only two 40 rifle or only the, the one elk tag they want. And maybe Elk’s a little bit different because they do have a seven year waiting period and you gonna get two in your life for, for all intents and purposes. But, but for the most part, these tags that, that give a percentage to max people, a lot of times they’re chasing something that they think they’re one or two points behind. But really that might be 10 years behind because it’s not just one or two points behind. It’s how many individuals are ahead of you. And Colorado Elk is a terrible, a perfect example of this, but a terrible example of chasing a moving target that you’ll never catch. You’ll never, if you’ve got 20 points and you’re chasing 2 10, 2 0 1, you’re chasing something you’ll never get because you’re not four or five years behind or six, you’re 200 people behind ahead of you

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They’re only sending

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Out and they’re only taking out a handful of them a year and you’ll never live long enough and people aren’t living long enough. And we can get into that today about what are you gonna die with? Are you gonna die with a flush bank account? And, and obviously money dying with money’s a little bit different because you’ve got family and kids and grandkids. But, but dying with points is not, do you, you can’t take ’em with you and you can’t give ’em to anybody else either. That’s

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Right. And but I think there’s also a fine line is, is utilizing the points and developing a strategy that makes sense. So some of these states it does make sense to hold on ’em a little bit for, for a short term, whatever that may be, maybe even long term. But then you also need the, the short term strategy of utilizing points, often drawing, often applying for easier to draw stuff that you want, you’re willing to accept in Idaho or New Mexico or whatever, and going regular and people want to go regular. But like Adam’s saying, are you gonna die with memories? Are you gonna die with hunting experiences with family? Are you gonna die with points? And we’re having guys call us and stop applying. They’re like, I can’t get around. I’m 77 years old anymore. I’m 72 years old. We’ve had multiple of them. I got 16 points in Arizona, I’ve got this. And they were always holding out for, for those very, very top end tags, early

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Rifle, rutt hunts or something, for instance. Yeah,

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Yeah, yeah. For instance. And so anyway, it’s the, the availability of tags coming down to, to be an extremely tough, tough, tough, tough to get the very upper echelon, so to speak, type tags. And we’re chasing that because we want to, and at the same time, while chasing that, you don’t draw anything as you go along and you end up with a lot of points and you end up frustrated at the system and you’re, and the pressure builds. You’re investing in the system, you’re investing into the states. And so there’s things that you can do out there. And Adam, we’ve done it, Jeff, Chris, we’ve all done it where we’ve gone out on a limb and you’re, and you are

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Vulnerable, okay.

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To fail. Yeah. You need to be okay.

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Don’t be afraid to eat a fail. Yeah. The tag don’t And be realistic. Yeah. About your points. If you’re chasing a moving target and, and you’re not gonna catch it. You can hope in the random draw, but you can hope for 10, 15, 20 more years and what, what we, what maybe we can throw out some examples. Even five or 10 or 15 years can be monumental in what a state state changes. 10 minutes in a commission meeting with a stroke of a pen can totally alter a whole state management practices for elk or mule deer or individual units, you know, management strategy and throw it all off kilter from what you invested 20 years into and now with stroke of a pen or a catastrophic win or die off. Look at Colorado, there’s still so many people applying in Colorado with the mentality from 2003 to 2007 when it was off the charts.

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Incredible. And they saw hunts then and they want those again. We all do, but it’s a new place in Colorado right now. Tags have generally came up, nothing’s as top heavy as it was. It’s all moderated. But people want the same experience with their points and they’re holding out for only four season tags or the only the best season tag, third season and the point creeps gone through the roof and you can’t simply draw what you know, what you once had with the points you had. And when you get there, the experience isn’t the same either. You know, we talk about taking advantage of opportunities while they’re in front of you. Utah, Elk’s another one. There’s still people we talked to every year that are holding out in Utah for X or Y and X or Y isn’t what X or Y was eight or 10 years ago. And so they’re probably gonna be disappointed even though they’re two to five years away from getting X or Y unit. Other opportunities that passed us by Jason, we were talking today like the archery hunts on the strip, remember? Yeah.

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To archery buy those over the counter. Yeah.

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There was archery over the counter and, and we’re, we’re watching these opportunities leave us. Yes. Where they’re talking about changing the landowner tech system in Nevada and I’m, and I, and I’m and I’m good with that. I think it’s, it’s healthy for deer to only, you know, have landowner tag hunters hunt ’em one season it’d be like ponant landowner tag’s good for all seasons. It just doesn’t make sense. And so, and I, and I get all that, but we’re watching these opportunities leave us. Same thing with general, you watch the over the counter gen general hunts here in Utah go to basically a draw. Yeah. They’re still considered general, but they go to a draw and now we’ve got people complaining that their kids can’t get a tag every year or they can’t get a tag every year and have these family experiences at the same time you have other guys complaining that they, they d r sucks the quality’s down.

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They don’t know how to manage well it, so the D W R is sitting there going, well we got people on this end, we got people on this end. What are we supposed to do? Then we also have the Henry’s, Oak Creeks, Ponant, San Juan whatever book Cliffs Vernon. And we’re managing on a certain way, we’re managing general a certain way, but everybody wants to make general like those units, which they’re amazing. The genetics are crazy, incredible. And I, and I understand that, but these states are trying to manage with the political pressure and, and the social pressure from us as hunters and make everybody happy and you can’t do it. And I think these systems are so far down the road, the, that you’ve gained so many te points over the course of time, even if it’s eight in Colorado, A guy’s gonna apply for a unit that some people drew with eight last year, nine guaranteed it, and then it’s just gonna be out of reach again because that was eight last year, right? Not eight this year just chasing. And so he’s tail the draw, right?

00:17:01:13 –> 00:17:10:28
So two years or three years go by and by then the, a winter kill happens or the dates keep creeping earlier and then he is like, ah, I’m gonna wait for the next five year season structure. That’s pretty soon. He’s waiting five or six years

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Now he’s got 13, 14. And I’ve talked, Adam, you and I have talked to, I don’t know, 10 people so far, maybe even in the last week, each that have 13 to 14 points and I’m telling ’em to go on X unit with that takes nine. And they’re like, yeah, but I don’t know that I could wait a couple more years and get a 35 fourth or I could wait a couple more years. Okay. But by then it’s gonna take 17, 18, 19 and the year you draw, it’s again five days pre

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Predicate on the weather

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Year. You

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Drop everything

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It could beri like you. Yeah. You were up hunting four season 10,000 feet. Yes. Terrible hunt.

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Well now for that, in that example, you got, you can’t turn a tag in, you know, the day before the hunt in Colorado. So you’re committing 30 days ahead of time. I’m all in. You can’t turn it in and get your points back anymore. So 30 days out, you don’t know what the weather, unless you, you know, unless you subscribe to some horoscope magazine that I don’t watch. And farmers, farmers almanac stuff that you believe 60 days in advance weather. But, but you know what I mean, you can do it. And the weather during your hunt will have more to do in Colorado with their quality of hunt than anything else. Anything else.

00:18:18:14 –> 00:18:50:10
And so there’s a lot of guys, Adam that hit and Jeff too. You get, we’re talking to guys that are saying, so you’re telling me I’m, that’s a good use of my points, whether it be 10 or 20 points or 15 or whatever, five three. That’s a good use of my points and I’m gonna have a good hunt. And our point is, I don’t know if you’re gonna have a good hunt. I’m just telling you to go hunt. Yes. Go freaking hunt. You know, it’s like us Adam, we had, I killed a good deer in Colorado last year. Oh, with that, with the exception of that one deer. You would’ve said it was a tough hunt. That hunt sucked. Yeah, it was.

00:18:50:11 –> 00:18:53:16
You would’ve said that. Yeah, I didn’t kill a deer. Same season, same. Same

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Where you even see one that you wanted to

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Kill. It wasn’t even one that was temp real temping.

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Okay. That, that unit takes eight to nine points to draw out a guarantee it. And so guys would come back and they do, and they’re like,

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That was a waste of 10 points.

00:19:05:09 –> 00:19:28:24
You guys told me that. And it, I gotta tell you, it sucked. Well the weather was terrible. The whole west, the whole west was struggled to kill big deer. And so Jeff, I wanted to go in on your theory a little bit about risk management and, and being able to, to being able to eat a tag and take the risk and go for the gold once in a while and Yeah. So you had a whole theory going on

00:19:28:24 –> 00:20:21:05
Yesterday. So I talked to, I was telling Jason yesterday, I said, I said Jason, the great thing about you is you’re willing to dive in into a unit that may not traditionally be known as as a trophy unit, but you’re willing to burn your points and go. And it’s so I think it’s so important for a guy to, to sit back and say, Hey, I’m going, I’m going in. Instead of sitting back and say, Hey, I’m just gonna sit here and you know, I’m gonna drive this ba I’m gonna draw this best tag in the state. Okay. The year I 2012, so when I was going to apply, I remember I was over, I, I was on the SS f w committee up to up to cash chapter. I went and talked to Jason Lal, Jason Lal had a good dude up there. He had a buddy that had the same amount of points as I did. And we were getting clo like we were two years outta max for, for Deere. Right.

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Two points outta of max,

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Two points outta max. It might’ve been

00:20:24:15 –> 00:20:25:00
Eight years

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Outta max. We sat there and did the math and we said, well, before we even get a chance to be in that pool, it was like eight years down the road, even though we were just two points away. Yeah. Eight years.

00:20:34:05 –> 00:20:39:13
It’s the individuals that are above you and the rate at which they’re being drawn every year, that’s really what matters.

00:20:39:16 –> 00:20:59:00
Right. And, and I look across the state. So, so at that point, I could look across the state, I could, I could draw almost anything right there. There wasn’t much I could not draw right then, but eight years even from being in that pool. Right. That, that max point pool to get that tag. So I drew that year, I drew the Henry’s muzzle loader and in

00:20:59:00 –> 00:20:59:26
The random round. Yeah. In

00:20:59:26 –> 00:21:06:14
The random. And, and I know like mentally I know like I made years away. Well it turns out I was here kind of like this year. Yeah. It

00:21:06:17 –> 00:21:09:22
Was, it was a tough year. Route ridden 2013 if I remember.

00:21:10:12 –> 00:21:17:24
Terrible. Yeah. Now, now. And that’s just kind of looking at the guys who had the points that were applying at that time, not thinking about the guys that could jump switch

00:21:17:24 –> 00:21:19:08
From rifle. Rifle to muzzle. Yeah.

00:21:19:08 –> 00:21:22:10
Right. Or go from points only to,

00:21:23:08 –> 00:21:25:28
Or Ope island into the Henry’s or antelope pile into the hand raise or, or whatever. Yeah.

00:21:26:03 –> 00:21:41:04
It will throw you off. So, so I could be chasing for years and years and years. And so at that point I was like, okay, I’m keeping it. Even though, even though I knew I was going into it with the risk thinking, you know, it was a drought year. I knew it was a drought year, but I did see one big deer early that we had hunters.

00:21:41:04 –> 00:21:41:13
It made

00:21:41:13 –> 00:21:41:16

00:21:41:16 –> 00:21:47:22
Turned him in. Our hunter turned it in that year, Jeff. It was not a great year. Yeah. I I I remember the year very good. I mean, I, I

00:21:47:22 –> 00:22:04:11
Very well, I thought I could make a miracle happen anyway. I didn’t. I ate my tag. I I I went through the whole hunt. But my point is with Jason was is is his, the different tags that he’s going for are not necessary. He’s not, he didn’t apply for 13. You didn’t apply for 13 B, right?

00:22:04:13 –> 00:22:11:08
Well, when I had max with deer points, yeah. I went on a, on on a pair of sheds that were found and, and then Adam and I, you took

00:22:11:11 –> 00:22:11:24
A huge

00:22:11:25 –> 00:22:22:12
Risk. That’s right. And Adam and I went down there, realized that that deer was dead, nowhere to be found or whatever. Maybe he moved a little. He was not. We were. And so we went out. Never

00:22:22:12 –> 00:22:24:15
Been heard from again for all intents and purposes, right?

00:22:24:18 –> 00:22:26:00
Yes. Never been heard from again.

00:22:26:09 –> 00:23:22:27
So we Yeah, but you went with a hunch and you had max, you could have held out for the standard 13 B and 13 A only on crushingly wet years, you know, and then when the seasons are good. But you didn’t, you went, went on a limb, but you were guaranteed to draw too that year. Yeah. Guaranteed. Because you went to the 12 B side and got a tag and very well you killed the biggest deer, I’m gonna say probably of your life, but, but Jason Carter, you never know. But two 70 plus come on a giant. Yeah. So, but if it wasn’t for that deer, we talk about a lot, Jason, it took that deer to make it the most epic hunt of our lives. We sit around the campfire for like four hours. It was before we even started, you know, it was processing below zero or whatever. It’s freezing. But we just soaked it in. We knew this night’s not gonna happen probably again. But if that deer wouldn’t have happened, it’s not like we had three to 20 bucks to go kill. No, I mean, a chance. We might have turned one up a chance we might have and a chance.

00:23:23:00 –> 00:23:25:21
Keep in mind when he, when he walked by you, Adam, you were like, I,

00:23:25:25 –> 00:23:28:15
He, he just had inlines going everywhere. Just you like, just get

00:23:28:25 –> 00:23:56:06
Yeah, he’s heavy. 32 inches and maybe two 15. And I’m like, we’ll kill that dude. ’cause this, by this point it’s looking sketch, right? Yeah. And, and again, I’m probably one of the very few guys with max deer points that wouldn’t apply. That didn’t apply for this trip. Right. And that’s my point on some of this stuff. And and it’s not be okay to eat a tag. It’s not a measure of you being a man. It’s not fun to eat tags. Jeff.

00:23:56:09 –> 00:23:57:05
No. Eat a

00:23:57:05 –> 00:23:59:02
Lot. Who is ate more great tags than me?

00:23:59:23 –> 00:24:01:17
You, you are the king of eatings.

00:24:01:17 –> 00:24:17:13
I ate 1 42 opinion canyon tag. Ate it. I ate a Nevada elite elk tag, a draw, ate it. My one Utah, Utah, Utah. Draw elk. I ate it a three 80 bull, walked by me at 12 yards. I ate it. Okay. Because, because it was back in the day there was giants, there

00:24:17:13 –> 00:24:18:02
Was 400. I

00:24:18:02 –> 00:24:23:05
Had Idaho’s super tag for deer. I ate it. I had an Idaho super tag for elk. I ate

00:24:23:05 –> 00:24:30:24
It. Okay. Now, now I’m gonna throw this disclaimer out there. Jason’s saying Jason had a 205 inch buck that he drove past that he was nah, just not interested.

00:24:31:09 –> 00:24:32:29
Okay. Now that brings me to another point.

00:24:33:14 –> 00:24:34:12
The next point. Point to another point.

00:24:34:15 –> 00:24:54:19
Yes. And we were talking about this Adam and you and you and Jeff and Chris. Everybody, you guys know, there’s times when when you, when you, when you pass bucks or elk or whatever that you would kill on the last day, you would, you’d be happy with them even. But there’s times when you just, you

00:24:54:19 –> 00:25:22:11
Just go for it. Go with the gut and say for it, I’m going all in. Yes. And you know, you, there’s a, there’s a, obviously you’re not done. You don’t punch your tag and you’re over and maybe you got two weeks left and you’re banking on the fact that I just, I think we can turn up something good. This is a great year, Idaho seems like, dear move early some year. You just have a feeling up there, this could be one of those years. And then the next year you went with kind of that same feeling because it worked the year before and it didn’t work.

00:25:22:13 –> 00:25:23:18
It was terrible. So it was

00:25:23:18 –> 00:25:23:23

00:25:23:23 –> 00:26:07:08
It was absolutely terrible. And so it’s, yeah, we could have killed the one 90 buck or 180 buck or whatever, one 70 buck, whatever it is that, but if you want to kill a 200 inch deer and everybody that we’re talking to does, and how do, how do you do it and how do this and that? Well, you eat a lot of freaking attacks. You eat a lot attacks. Okay. And you’re driving by or walking by or whatever. Great box. Yeah you are. And it’s, but it’s okay. And I think that’s part of it. The downside is, and what we’re, what the gist of this is, Adam, tell me where I’m, where I’m missing it and tell me where I’ve got fouled up. Logic is that these point systems have held us hostage and we’re stressed, we’re pressured. We don’t just Oh, stressed. We’re not willing to eat that tag. We’re so scared

00:26:07:09 –> 00:26:08:16
We’re gonna eat fully the

00:26:08:16 –> 00:26:16:29
Hunt. And then when I go down and I, and I’m with my buddies and we’re down at the coffee shop or whatever is, I ate my tag. I’m a poor hunter, so to speak. Yeah.

00:26:17:02 –> 00:27:03:17
And it’s, that’s just can’t be, you can’t, that label shouldn’t follow, follow you. I mean that shouldn’t self-impose that upon yourself. You, you just shouldn’t. And, and just a real brief point of clarification, these states we’re talking about, you can drive, steer the ship, so to speak, pick the year you want to go. If you already have the points to draw unit X or Y and you’re right there and you’re picking the right year because you got a son or daughter getting married or you got something big. There’s reasons to put it up. But we’re talking about what we’re talking about is chasing the dream. That is, that is not within reach and being realistic, I guess you can always get lucky, Jeff, you drew lucky in the random draw. Like you said you were with eight years, but you got luck into it. Those happen.

00:27:03:20 –> 00:27:39:18
You react, you go do those hunts. But, but we’re not trying to squash people’s dreams, but be realistic and go hunting more often because the more often you hunt, you’ll a, become a better hunter. When you fail, you become a better hunter. Even if you eat tags, you become a better hunter for the tags you do get down the road. But also hunting more often is gonna increase your chances of killing the type of deer elk that you want instead of all your eggs into one basket on a max point, you know, Wyoming elk tag or a max point Wyoming deer tag that I couldn’t even tell you where to use your points with the certainty that you’re gonna even have a chance at one 90 plus.

00:27:39:23 –> 00:27:48:06
And you did it Adam. Yeah. You went up there, you went up there, you had max points for Wyoming deer and you go up there and you ended up, it wasn’t a guarantee that you would drop, but you happened to

00:27:48:06 –> 00:28:28:17
Drop. Yeah. It was still 10% chance. But, but I just realized there’s nothing, I should have been hunting h and g every time I could drop. I should have been. And, and my schedule in September, which is when those seasons open up, is always busy. It’s Utah Elk, Utah, sheep desert, sheep season is always opening up. I I just never could make time to do it. So I put in for that one only because it’s in November. It was after I’d be done. Not that I thought that’s my best chance to kill a 200 inch deer. ’cause I knew it wasn’t. I knew going to general and A G R H and hunting multiple times. If I, if I had hunted it four or five times, I would most certainly have a couple of bucks on the wall that were probably bigger, bigger than the one I killed. The 1 28, 2 30

00:28:28:17 –> 00:28:29:28
Plus, who knows. Yeah. Or there’s

00:28:29:28 –> 00:28:32:12
Giant or even one 90 plus, which is bigger than the deer I

00:28:32:12 –> 00:29:09:22
Shot. But then we have a die off one, two Oh yeah. 2016, 2017 happens. How long is it to come back? And I think it’s a part of that, Adam, I want to, and you, and you brought up something very valid is the points it’s taken to draw. So I’m looking at this unit for Colton and, and we could apply this all to ourselves. I’m looking at these units for Colton and I could pay the my son so I could pay the cheap tag fee and I might get it. Okay. He might get it. Or we could go the expensive, it was a hundred percent with four and he had six. I can go with the expensive, now I’m paying $1,283. Right. Keep in mind it’s 200 and something for the youth on the regular. So I

00:29:09:29 –> 00:29:10:22
Ahead, it’s a thousand

00:29:11:11 –> 00:29:20:29
Thousand dollars difference. And we apply for that $1,283. Guess what the drawing odds were this year? Okay. The year he drew 2018, it was took

00:29:20:29 –> 00:29:23:07
Six months, jumped to six. What he had, 600% was six

00:29:23:07 –> 00:29:28:02
What he had, because everybody wanted to use them. You don’t know. Yeah. The mentality out there, they, they

00:29:28:02 –> 00:29:30:13
Increased permit fees and all that oil. Hey

00:29:30:13 –> 00:30:19:12
Chris, the permit fees the year of 2017 was off the charts for Big Bulls in Wyoming. So everybody’s excited. You couldn’t do anything wrong In 2017, there was big bulls dying everywhere. And so people are excited. So they, they all apply. Well, you don’t know what the general feel is out there. It takes hundreds of people to, to jump into a draw to really change things. Not necessarily for that particular hunt, but statewide. That’s what happened. And, and so that’s my point with Colorado. That’s my point with Utah or some of these other states. Arizona, you could draw a late elk tag with six to eight points and and go hunting. And they do have big bulls. Yeah, they’re broken. Yeah. It’s November. I get all those things. But they are opportunities to kill a giant and there are a few out there that are killed. And so anyway, don’t just try to barely get drawn with Colton. I could’ve tried to barely get him drawn and we would’ve sat home.

00:30:19:17 –> 00:30:29:01
Yeah. And normal reasoning says, okay, I got two more points and I needed there. Don’t do that. Do something else. Yes, but no, you knew what unit you wanted. Yeah. And you just like, whatever. Hey, that, that’s

00:30:29:06 –> 00:30:30:23
Whatever I want. That is what we’ve been waiting for, for

00:30:30:27 –> 00:30:31:06

00:30:31:06 –> 00:30:31:25
Is what we’ve been waiting for.

00:30:32:13 –> 00:30:54:20
So last year he is gonna be youth. So you’re ah, I could get it for two 80 or whatever that youth fee is. Yeah, yeah. You know, but then if you don’t get it, you’re weighing out, you know, he’s going out into the world, you know, between, you know, maybe three to six, eight years before he can hunt again because he’s gonna go all this college and different stuff. And time is, you got him under the household right now. I know I can take him now in the next five, six years. You don’t know that. So let’s talk

00:30:54:26 –> 00:30:56:19
About time and go ahead, Jeff to

00:30:56:19 –> 00:31:09:00
Another thing. Well, I was just gonna say, and when people, like I have had people ask me, what, what is, when you’re talking about force a draw, what do you, what are you talking about? Well that’s exactly what we talked about in, in this situation with Jason. He, you forced the draw, right? Yeah. You did everything. You

00:31:09:00 –> 00:31:10:01
Did Couldn tell what you’re gonna get drawn, tell what

00:31:10:01 –> 00:31:24:19
You knew when you were gonna go. You forced that draw. You, you pushed it through. Now you could have just gone in at the end, but you kind of forced it. You, you went above and beyond to make sure you get the tag to go. So, so if you’re, if you hear us use that lingo, that’s kind of what we’re, that’s what we’re meaning.

00:31:24:26 –> 00:31:43:10
I’m glad you clarified that. I’m glad you clarified that. I think another, another example, Adam, you and I use Arizona desert sheep and Nevada desert sheep is the one chance to kill a giant or or kill something. Great. Yeah. We know Adam’s gonna draw Utah sheep. There’s a few units he could get now. Yeah. And and

00:31:43:20 –> 00:31:45:10
You’ve killed one. Yeah. 10 years. I drew

00:31:45:13 –> 00:31:50:12
And I killed 159 inch and, and it was great. It was an unbelievable experience. What’s

00:31:50:12 –> 00:31:52:18
That? But you gambled, you gambled a little bit on that one too.

00:31:52:29 –> 00:31:56:19
Yeah. You could have held out for a couple of units you couldn’t draw. But, and

00:31:56:25 –> 00:32:20:12
Now seeing now the Utah sheep used to be considered just average, never gonna be great. And now it is kind of great in some of these units. Fast forward to now we’ve got a sheep Adam, you’re gonna get a sheep. And yet we still look at Arizona and there’s a lot of units and we cover this in our magazine very well. Very clear. There’s a lot of units that max point holders are pulling out the tags. Yeah. And they’re not available to our

00:32:20:19 –> 00:32:23:01
Residents 22 and four B. And that’s

00:32:23:01 –> 00:32:28:26
Right. Even though we can apply for ’em legally, we are not in the draw because there’s so many max point holders that are

00:32:28:29 –> 00:32:34:17
Applying sometimes both the tags or two or three, all of them go to a max point drawing the 20% so there’s no random

00:32:34:17 –> 00:33:02:25
37 A or whatever. And so we analyze that every year. And so it was, the writing was on the wall that if, if Adam or I or Jeff or Chris, any anybody wants to apply for desert sheep and you guys all do. If, if you wanna draw and you want to kill a giant, again, the strategy is to kill a big one. ’cause we have one Okay. Is you’ve gotta go in a weird quirky something and you gotta take a chance of failing to kill that kind of animal. You’ve gotta take a chance. And, and

00:33:02:25 –> 00:33:25:25
There’s not a bad hunt in Arizona that if you were to pick one, there’s not a bad one, but, but there’s some that maybe have an unknown or a wild card upside. And that’s kind of a little bit of what you’re talking about. That’s it. You know, one that’s, if you go to the ones they always kill one 50 to one 60 rams and that’s all they ever kill and they kill five to 10 rams a year on them. That’s probably not the wild card. It probably isn’t.

00:33:25:25 –> 00:33:46:00
Right. But even Adam, you and I’ve talked to that and I agree with you a hundred percent, but even we’ve talked about the statistics on paper Yeah. Are truly indicative of the hunters that drew some guys just wanna kill a ram. I had a guy in my unit that this year in Arizona, the tag that I drew, he was just, he was hunting with a bow and he said anything over one 40, I’m gonna shoot. And his ram went 1 43. Yeah.

00:33:46:00 –> 00:33:51:07
He just wanted to shoot a ram with bow, which is admir admirable. And in fact, like he was not ever gonna pick up a gun. Yeah.

00:33:51:10 –> 00:34:07:16
And in fact he was on a ram that was bigger than the ram he shot. And that ram moved, he’s full draw that ram moves the kill, the kill zone is covered up. So he just pivoted over to the other ram and shot it a smaller ram. Yeah. Literally, literally the experience for him was, was

00:34:07:16 –> 00:34:08:08
More than everything

00:34:08:16 –> 00:34:32:16
Was everything. And, and, and where mine, I wanna put my hands on, I wanted to use it as putting my hands on something special. Like just, oh my gosh, of course I want the experience. You guys were all there. Oh, of course. I want that. And so anyway, that’s what I think part of it is going out. We went out on a limb. Yeah. That room, that that unit did produce a couple of one seventies. We knew that genetics were there for potential. Had no idea you’d kill a 180 plus there.

00:34:32:16 –> 00:34:34:18
No track record. No track record to prove otherwise

00:34:35:05 –> 00:34:38:22
For that kind of ram at 180 plus you shouldn’t leave, you know, 22, 24,

00:34:39:02 –> 00:34:41:12
Whatever the Mexicana units Yeah. Yes. Should not leave them.

00:34:41:17 –> 00:35:41:29
Or 28 whatever on paper. And the rumblings, the guides know ’em well. We, they know specific rams and, and we get to filter through some of that. And so anyway, that’s kind of my point. Just there’s some things you gotta look at, you gotta look at, at the availability of things to draw. Okay. So you look at that, this is what we can draw on now, what is realistic? What are you actually in the draw for? What is realistic? And then making the best out of those tags that you can, these points are holding us hostage. People are working harder than ever. We’ve got range finders that are amazing guns that are amazing. Even thermal imaging and crazy stuff starting to come out and which is crazy. Yeah. And, and so where’s this going? All this pressure. Age class is gonna slip a bit again. Game and fish agencies are trying to manage, but they’re dealing with social pressures and then they’re also dealing with biological issues and they’re trying to make everybody happy. And then we’re, we’re ticked when we use eight or nine points in Colorado and it’s a dry year. Yeah, yeah.

00:35:42:13 –> 00:36:02:23
And eat those tags. Yeah. Well, and, and one, and, and another thing is, most of us here, here we’re all in the mid thirties to mid forties. You know, we’re all, what we fill, we’re in our prime. And you know, and if you don’t, you don’t believe it, just ask our wives because we try to act like we’re 21 still and you know, we’re we failed, I’m as good once

00:36:02:23 –> 00:36:03:17
As I ever was.

00:36:03:29 –> 00:36:16:13
Yeah. Alright. But where I’m going with that is we’re not 21 anymore. You know, just, just look at us. Some we’re not. Yeah, we’re not. Let’s just leave it at that. We’re not. So

00:36:17:00 –> 00:36:18:06
Look at the bags under my eyes.

00:36:18:07 –> 00:36:58:25
That’s right. We we’re losing sleep. We’re that at three in the morning till all this we’re, you know, it’s harder to get into shape every year if you do take a few of the months off in the wintertime, which in inevitably when we’re in the office desk jobs, you know, we don’t have as much time to get out in the winter. And I know poor us, but where I’m going with that is we have the best bodies and physically that we have right now is that we’re ever gonna have. And so you can’t predict the future for them if you say, Hey, I’m gonna wait 10 year due points only for 10 years, and then I wanna start crushing the west and draw a bunch of tags. There’s no guarantees. You know, we were all part of a hunt this year with, with one of our sheep clients that acquired a tag and the week after was diagnosed with, with a l s and that’s a death sentence.

00:36:58:28 –> 00:37:39:22
And you just slowly die on the vine. And we all partook in that last hunt with him. You watched it even from February till we took him hunting in August and then got him back in December. The, you know how someone’s life can change so fast and, and that’s one example. There’s, you know, there’s a lot of other things, whether it’s cancer or whether it’s just life in general hitting you or whether it’s one of your kids, you know, or, or you lose a spouse or, or something you can’t predict. There are no guarantees. These are not, this is not points are not money in the bank and I’ll be guaranteed when I wanna spend ’em, but I’m gonna get what I want. There’s no guarantee you can spend them and there’s no guarantee in what you spend them on is gonna be a result that you want.

00:37:40:06 –> 00:37:45:14
I agree a hundred percent. And I think too, and not that hunting’s everything, if I’m, if I’m on my death debt, if

00:37:45:14 –> 00:37:46:24
We’re dying, there’s more important

00:37:46:24 –> 00:38:37:00
Things. If my mom death, that’s, yeah. That family comes first in my, in my mind. But, but I’m not thinking about man, I, I’m, maybe I am, man, I got all these points and that that could be another 220 inches that’s really important on my deathbed and gonna go with me. But having said that, you have memories. Yeah. Hunts with families, hunts with friends, special moments in your life, or we can come back to work, come back to work, we can work all fall because we never drew a tag. We can continue to use our, you know, vacation to work or whatever instead of enjoying some of these things going on hunts, realizing it’s not the end of the world if we don’t kill one it, but it is the end of the world if we die with 20 plus points. And we didn’t have those experiences. We didn’t have the family time, we didn’t have good times with our buddies. Yeah. I mean there’s some amazing things that happen in the field that’s makes that only happen in the field. Yeah.

00:38:37:00 –> 00:39:42:18
That’s what makes life fulfilling. We all have things and obviously if you’re listening to us, hunting is probably one of those things in your life that fulfills you, whether that’s individually or with your family, friends, whatever. You wouldn’t be probably tuning into our podcast if hunting wasn’t a big deal. Your life just like it is ours. We have other things within our family and our relationships that, that are very important to us. But hunting for us is dovetailed into that with our families. And what we’re just basically trying to say is do it while you can do it now, get after it because there’s no guarantees. You know, and that can, that can be a whole different thing. So you could, your employment status could change all right, maybe you have more vacation now and you know, time off and you have seniority and all that changes and now you’re starting at the bottom in a new career and all that, and you have no time and you thought your 10 or 15 or 20 points, you could start crushing it. I mean, there’s just no guarantees. Just a simple employment, you know, downturn the economy or, or whatever could change how you can hunt. You know, it doesn’t have to be a physical or a life or death situation. Just a, a life situation. You know, things like that. I

00:39:42:18 –> 00:39:49:06
Agree with you. And, and what’s interesting is you’re not gonna change the states and their systems. You’re not gonna change it. And

00:39:49:10 –> 00:39:49:22
More than likely

00:39:49:29 –> 00:40:46:19
It’s gonna get worse. But you can almost need to plan on that. But you can change you, you can change your mentality. You may, it’s okay to save points here and there where it makes sense. Adam and I consult, I don’t know how many times a day, dozens and where guys are like, you know, and we go through each state and we’re like, here it makes sense to gain points for the, for your goals. But he, you, you need to draw fairly regular. He wants to draw fa fairly regular, but he also doesn’t want to just draw a deer tag in Arizona every single year where he could have been doing that in Colorado and have 10 years where the points are whatever, and hunt a trophy, COOs deer in Arizona with those points. And so there’s things that make sense. We’re not saying below your points in every single state, no matter what, you need to have an application strategy that makes sense. That’s a valuable, you know, well thought out strategic plan and, and with dealing with the pressures that we’re dealing with today with the tag allocation systems, all of these things. And so,

00:40:46:25 –> 00:41:32:17
Well, and for people, you, you mentioned people maybe back east or people that are just in general brand new to the, the, the western hunting application game. Make a plan that you can come out. I know it’s, it’s a little different for us. We’re, we’re in the west, every western state around us is within an eight hour drive and we’re hunting. It’s different for you. So I realize logistically there’s a lot of reasons to build points if you live further away from the western states because you can’t both logistically time or hiring a guide or scouting or all that, that’s a, that’s completely different. So I don’t wanna paint that with a broad brush. But having said that, be realistic from the start. If you’re gonna start have shorter term plans because longer term plans in the states that have 20 plus year established point systems, you, you shouldn’t even be thinking about that.

00:41:32:22 –> 00:42:15:10
Now that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t start putting in for desert sheep or some of these because Yeah, for most people you’ll never be able to get one. Otherwise, you know, it’s a 50, $60,000 price tag to go buy a tag out Western Mexico. So for 90% of plus people, that’s how you’re gonna have to choose, choose it. But we’re not talking about sheep. We’re talking about if you say I wanna hunt the San Juan in my life, I’m gonna put it in there till I draw. That’s not a real, that’s not idea expectation. It’s not that’s a glorified points on the application. And maybe in the years you can’t really go. Those are smart put in there. If you get drawn, you make the best of it. But have, if you’re just starting maintain that, hey, I wanna go every two or three years and I’m gonna go on the tags that I can draw every two or three years and keep that mentality and you’ll be fine.

00:42:15:22 –> 00:42:51:02
I think you made a great point on, you said one thing that really struck out. Of course you, it’s all valid, but you said a glorified points only application. And I think there, that’s critical. A lot of guys are like, I just want to gain points for desert sheep or Rocky Mountain big horns. Well, if you drew a tag, would you take it? Well, hell yeah. If I drew a tag, I’d take it. Okay, then apply for it. Because in a lot of the draw of these states, you are not fronting the tag feast. There is no difference price wise. And so if you don’t draw, you’re gonna get a point freaking put in for the animal, put in for the unit. It might happen. If it does happen, call

00:42:51:02 –> 00:42:51:14
Us, react and do

00:42:51:14 –> 00:42:54:25
It. We’re gonna help you be successful Nevada work without this Nevada points only desert.

00:42:55:22 –> 00:42:56:23
What’s that? Nevada points

00:42:56:23 –> 00:43:14:13
Points only do it only desert people do it all the time. And, and I understand it’s, I understand. Go for it. I’m gonna get a divorce. I’ve already got 14 hunts up in Canada and Alaska set up. Oh, okay. I get that one. Having said that, very few people are in that boat. That’s right. They may not want it. They do have a hunt lined up, but they would take a sheep if they got one.

00:43:14:19 –> 00:44:02:12
Yeah. And if you’re in the, if you’ve got 20 points in in Wyoming for Rocky Mountain Bighorn and you are in the driver’s seat, you can force the drought like we talked about earlier. And this is not a good year because you have another trip planned or you’ve got a son or daughter getting married in September 15th and you next year. Yeah. That’s a points on this scenario. Now I understand they’re in the driver’s side, I understand that. But, but those things should happen year to year. Wipe the slate clean every year. All right, I’m back in the next year, let’s get this done before you blow knee out, you have 13 back surgeries and you can’t walk. And now you know, you’ve, you’re in and outta the hospital for three years trying to get something right. I mean, look at Tiger Woods for instance. I mean, how many years did he have to take off? I mean, there was a lot of things in his life, but a lot of ’em were physical and that guy was a machine. He was invincible until he hasn’t been for 10 years, you know, and now he’s kind of back. But that guy, you know, we can be that guy.

00:44:02:20 –> 00:45:12:16
Well, I had a guy, I had a guy tell me, he says, Jason, I’m 57 years old. How many more years do I have to be effective in the heels? Really take advantage of a tag that I might draw. And I’m like, well, 70 ish, if you’re dang lucky, some guys are doing it at 75 plus, but I don’t know that they’re as effective as you are at 50 and the six. And so really, let’s call it 65. He goes, that’s eight years. Eight years. You can wrap your arms around eight years. Eight years all of a sudden creep. You can see the end and you’re like, oh, you know, and not again, not that our lives should be a hundred percent focused on hunting and hunting’s all that we’re gonna take to our grave. That that’s wrong. You shouldn’t be doing, that’s family, friends, the kind of person you are, being honest, whatever those are, those are all of those traits that are more important than hunting. But hunting creates family memories. It’s memories with you and your buddies. It, it’s really who you know about everything we have and what we do. I mean, we all have a few little hobbies on the side, but, but it’s really the makeup of the, of the person we are. Yeah. And so that’s important to us. And

00:45:12:16 –> 00:45:48:17
As we’re focusing on, you know, we’re focusing of course on hunting as a, as a company here. But, but you know, as, as people’s hobbies, you, your mentality And the point of this application strategy is that you guys have put together is, is you have to build it. You have to have a plan, but don’t go into your plan thinking so long term that you don’t get experience. You know, I’ve heard you guys say it multiple times, experience is huge. Like you don’t wanna draw your first tag as a, as a, as a Arizona random draw in one of the best units in the state. And you’ve never pulled a bow back before. Well

00:45:49:14 –> 00:45:51:29
Well, I wanna kill three 50, but you’ve never killed a 300

00:45:52:05 –> 00:46:27:13
Or an elk. And I’ve, and I’ve, we, it seems like I’m talking to more and more people and they’re, they’re coming up with that on their own. They’re going, they’re guys that they, Hey, I’m getting eight to 10 points or 15 and some of these states, my kids are getting older. I’m gonna start hunting, but I’m hunting Colorado every year. A cheap landlord tag New Mexico for elk. Just to shoot bulls. Just to, just to know what it’s like to call a bull in Titan, knowing one, you can move what you can’t get away with. And that’s all this setup up on hunting elk. That’s awesome. Yeah. And there’s validity to that. And you only get there one way. If you first bull you’ve ever drawn a bull back on is a three 50 plus bull. There’s a lot that can go wrong. ’cause you’ve never done it once before in your life.

00:46:27:25 –> 00:46:55:08
I had a guy I was talking to yesterday and he says, I have 20 elk points. I wanna make good use of ’em this year. I’m having rotator surgery, you know, yada yada. And he’s like, so I’m not gonna be shooting a bow, so I’ll be doing the early rifle. What do you think? And we get going on this. Okay. And at the end of the phone call, I said, what, what? At the end of the day, what are you looking for? Like, what do you want? And he goes, I’d shoot a bull over 300 inches. What

00:46:55:08 –> 00:46:56:20
Have you been waiting 20 years today? 20

00:46:56:28 –> 00:47:03:16
Years, Jeff. He could have drawn a couple of tags by now. He could even two lates plus have five points. And back

00:47:03:16 –> 00:47:10:18
Then Yeah. And that, and that’s if he waited till the eight or 10 years until he got in the max point draw. And that’s, he could’ve drawn in the random after three or four points. Yes.

00:47:10:20 –> 00:47:21:20
And, and, and or he could’ve taken part in an awesome archery tag unit 27, unit one, whatever, already had it done five years ago when he was even healthier than he is now. We don’t get healthier as we get.

00:47:21:21 –> 00:47:22:02
Mr. Is Harris

00:47:22:08 –> 00:47:37:14
All we’re talking about. Okay. Yeah. And so anyway, I just think the biggest, the biggest point of all of this, state systems are tough. It is tough to get these once in lifetime type tags. And I’m gonna put once in lifetime, meaning Utah elk, I think it’s once in lifetime. Pretty much. Yeah.

00:47:37:17 –> 00:47:42:28
If you get a random tag, okay, you’re getting, that might happen. But it’s a once in lifetime Nevada

00:47:42:28 –> 00:47:54:20
A elk, let’s call it a once in lifetime, maybe a twice in lifetime. Okay. And so when you start realizing that, you start wrapping your hands around it, you really understand the necessity of applying everywhere,

00:47:55:04 –> 00:47:55:17
Multiple states.

00:47:55:25 –> 00:48:06:13
You have to apply everywhere. I’m not saying everybody run to Oregon and apply, do not do that. Okay. Don’t do it in Washington. Don’t do it. It’s not worth it. From a non-resident perspective. Yeah.

00:48:06:13 –> 00:48:06:20

00:48:06:20 –> 00:48:26:08
Yeah. Or California. Don’t do it. Okay. So there’s things, and Adam and I, honestly, Adam and I consult and we steer guys away from things that don’t make sense. There’s some guys that say that $160 non-resident license fee isn’t worth it to me for this and this and this. And we, and then we reiterate 10 years down the road, do you think your, your

00:48:26:13 –> 00:48:27:17
Perspective will change?

00:48:27:23 –> 00:48:32:17
And they’re like, no. Or yes. And if it does, then we’re saying, well you really should consider this. Yeah.

00:48:32:29 –> 00:48:40:02
But they say, well yeah, mul deer down there, I really wanna kill ’em. But right now I’m focused on elk, but mul deer, I import. Okay, you should be doing that for 10

00:48:40:02 –> 00:48:59:07
Or $15 for each, each additional species you apply for. You can get a point. Why not? Yeah. Maybe you don’t even think about that. You have ’em. There’s Adam and I and Jeff and Chris. You guys we’re, we’re applying for things that we know. There’s points there, but I couldn’t tell you how many because I know I’m not even gonna draw. So I don’t think about it. Here’s an, I’m doing things I don’t think about. Here’s

00:48:59:07 –> 00:49:17:05
An example. Arizona, I applied for sheep, deer, elk from the GetGo when I started. Because those are the three that probably most people think about when they think of Arizona. Big deer, big elk. This was the whole credit, this card. The whole, yeah. Yeah. You’re fronting and all that. Front and fees, you know, pay apps.

00:49:17:05 –> 00:49:21:10
Well this is back when you were talking to your wife and you’re just saying those fees are gonna come back. Yes. This is that

00:49:21:10 –> 00:49:26:00
Whole era. But, but antelope didn’t, they still don’t do a lot for me. Alright.

00:49:26:01 –> 00:49:28:05
Okay. Well you’ve killed an 87 inch or 88,

00:49:28:14 –> 00:49:42:18
But that’s where this story’s going. Oh, okay. I didn’t do it for the first 10 plus years that I did deer, elk, and sheep. And then one day we were talking like, I don’t know, something clicked. And I’m just like, might as well just start putting it on a whim. It

00:49:42:18 –> 00:49:43:13
Might’ve been the $10.

00:49:43:27 –> 00:49:54:28
Well, it could have been that. Yes. But it was just like, all right, I’ll do it. Eight or nine years later, boom. I draw out of the random blue unit 10 and killed probably the biggest antelope ball I ever killed in my life. Oh dude, you

00:49:54:28 –> 00:49:57:04
Killed an 88 inch truck chaser.

00:49:58:08 –> 00:50:12:02
He wasn’t that big, but he wasn’t 88. But he was really good. He was great. And I’m very happy, self-guided. But my point is, I, I don’t care. I still don’t care much about antelope. I’m appreciative of that hunt. I’m, I respect that. I’m not saying I don’t care about a, been a cro.

00:50:12:06 –> 00:50:16:17
They’re fun. And I tease that I hate him. I tease the, i they’re pretty fun

00:50:16:17 –> 00:50:32:17
Odds. But there’s an example of, all right, 10 bucks. Go ahead. I didn’t know when. And then some of the years I did do points only, well, that year I didn’t, I got a charge on my card that year and I thought I drew an out tag. Yeah. And I turned, I’m like, oh no, that’s five 50, not six 50. I drew an antelope. Ah. Oh, okay. I dunno.

00:50:33:27 –> 00:50:37:16
So am I happy or sad? I’m happy. I’m happy. That’s

00:50:37:16 –> 00:50:51:13
Right. Luckily, I didn’t draw anything else more important. I almost gave the tag to my son that year, but I just, he, it was, you know, I had to drive back to Utah to get him and get the paperwork done. I’m like, oh, I’ll just stick it down here and let what happens happen. That’s right. That’s right. And had a buddy down. There’s,

00:50:51:14 –> 00:51:15:25
I had a guy I talked to yesterday that, you know, he’s coming to the end of his application career. He’s mid seventies. And he says, go look at this buck. He killed it with Sam, this and this and this. And I go, look, it’s Stadd buck. And he goes, I gave that tag to my grandson. You can legally do that in Arizona. And he says, I’m gonna continue to play the point system and I’m gonna go watch my grandsons have good

00:51:15:25 –> 00:51:17:18
Hunts till they’re 18 years old. You can do

00:51:17:18 –> 00:51:30:14
That. That’s the way he’s gonna give points away. That’s the way he’s gonna do it. And how cool is that? That’s freaking awesome. You know, so there’s little nuances like that throughout the state’s. Residents in Utah can do that. Idaho, you can do that. Go ahead,

00:51:30:14 –> 00:52:10:26
Chris. What we were talking about, it’s, it’s a lot of this is about experiences. It’s about getting out in the field. It’s about learning for me is a big one. So if, if you have opportunities to do that, why not take ’em? You know? So this antelope, maybe you didn’t have anything else that year, so why not go, why not have that experience? And, and maybe you’ve, a lot of times you’ve got a kid with you or you know, you’re, you’re sharing memories. Mine, for instance, my, my hunt in Arizona, I I drew a late tag, use my points ’cause I wanted to go late muzzle over. Yeah. I thought, you know what, I just want to go. So I drew this, I drew this tag that was probably a guaranteed draw for me with the amount of points I had. Well, I went and it was a terrible hunt. But I learned,

00:52:11:02 –> 00:52:17:20
And I think I even consulted, I was just grateful you didn’t come back to me and say, you told me that, that Yeah, well you, and it was terrible and

00:52:17:20 –> 00:52:32:11
You, and you did. But I went and it was, it was hard. It was a tough hunt dry. But a lot of that was because of the year. But looking back now, I would still do it again. And, and I may put in for that, that hunt or a hunt similar to it in the future. Well,

00:52:32:14 –> 00:52:34:04
’cause you can draw it every 5, 6, 7, 8 years.

00:52:34:04 –> 00:52:37:01
Yeah. But I, I, the amount that I learned was

00:52:38:01 –> 00:52:38:08

00:52:38:08 –> 00:52:46:22
Yeah. Was incredible. Like I, I could go back now and be way more effective, but that’s something I could do that hunt twice rather than going, waiting 20 years

00:52:46:25 –> 00:52:49:04
Or four times. Yeah. Over a one early tag.

00:52:49:06 –> 00:52:51:15
And they killed three fifties at times on their three sixties.

00:52:51:15 –> 00:53:01:10
Well, well, so one of the bulls that was killed on the same hunt that I was there was cys. They killed one that was like a 3, 3 90. It was a dang nice bull on the same boat. Giant.

00:53:01:17 –> 00:53:02:14
Not nice giant.

00:53:02:18 –> 00:53:03:19
Yeah. Giant bull.

00:53:04:04 –> 00:53:17:19
Well, and I was talking to a guy yesterday and he says, he says, I applied and then, and I went to Colorado on a unit and I saw more people than deer. And I’m like, okay, that sounds like me. Adam, Jeff, Chris, Chris

00:53:18:02 –> 00:53:19:14
Colorado. Sounds like Colorado.

00:53:19:14 –> 00:53:30:12
Sounds like Colorado. They got over the counter elk tags at the same time during the second and third. That’s what you expect. Right. And he says, but you know, I killed 194. Okay. On a second season

00:53:30:15 –> 00:54:10:17
Tag kill a 94 on a second. Yeah. By the end of the call. I said, well, what season did you have? He goes second, I’ve hunted that second. It was terrible. Right. But he put himself in the field. He put himself in the field. If you’re not gonna have a tag and be in the field, how can the Lord bless you and allow you to kill a big buck? Let’s be honest. How can it happen? It happen. If you’re not gonna be put yourself in the field, you’re not gonna have the opportunity to pull a trigger on 194 here. Like this guy. Right. Yeah. You know, at the end of the day he’s saying it was a tough, terrible hunt, but I killed a giant and I actually liked it. Yeah. Same thing with you in Colorado. I mean, last year, terrible hunt. Terrible calling out 200 places.

00:54:10:17 –> 00:54:14:06
Trip. No, it didn’t ever get terrible for you because you killed, I don’t

00:54:14:06 –> 00:54:14:08

00:54:14:21 –> 00:54:17:07
Then 24 hours you had a 200 on the trailer.

00:54:17:17 –> 00:54:22:24
Bronson. Bronson. But you would say that’s a nice one. What else you got for me?

00:54:23:19 –> 00:54:30:05
No, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say that. No, I wouldn’t. Nobody. He’ll no, I wouldn’t say that. I’m pretty sure. But I remember, I

00:54:30:10 –> 00:54:33:20
Remember not right when I was like, come on, let’s kill it. And you’re like, do you got anything else? Oh,

00:54:33:25 –> 00:54:39:00
I know. Oh, that dude. Yeah. He was just a deer. He was 30. I don’t know what he was. 29 and a half or

00:54:39:06 –> 00:54:41:08
Something like that. He was a great buck. And, but yeah. So yeah,

00:54:41:26 –> 00:54:42:11
But it was

00:54:42:18 –> 00:54:45:02
Tough. It was a long hunt. Yes. The rest of the hunt was long. But,

00:54:45:03 –> 00:55:07:12
But how many, many times I the last go back and you go back, I think my first year of Colorado was like 2004. And it was probably the best hunt I’ve ever had. And that was largely in part to them going to a draw unit by unit 98 or nine. I forget exactly when that happened. And things rapidly, they had, they had normal winners and they rapidly got good everywhere. It was unbelievable.

00:55:07:14 –> 00:55:09:12
It was top heavy. Especially we were,

00:55:09:12 –> 00:55:12:10
I was hunting over the counter. Well, leftover tax. Yeah. They

00:55:12:10 –> 00:55:15:20
Went to limited entry draws in the west. Yes. Western part of Colorado. They,

00:55:15:20 –> 00:55:29:24
They did that. And so, but, but since then, I don’t know how many, in 14 years, I probably only missed three or four years. I, I don’t know. Yeah. Due to a couple of ’em. I had to turn landlord tags back. How many tags

00:55:29:24 –> 00:55:29:29
Did you

00:55:30:03 –> 00:55:36:01
Gave it to? Gave it, there’s another, gave it to a buddy, gave it to the, one of the harrows. They went and shot a two 15 on the, that

00:55:36:01 –> 00:55:36:18
Was disgusting.

00:55:37:08 –> 00:55:38:02
That one stung

00:55:38:11 –> 00:55:39:20
That one. And those guys

00:55:40:08 –> 00:55:46:00
Are hard hunters. They deserved everything that happened to him. But I didn’t put myself on the field to allow it to happen because I was busy.

00:55:46:00 –> 00:55:47:29
But every time I see that heavy sucker, I’m like,

00:55:48:15 –> 00:55:51:06
Every time I see their ad in our magazine with that deer,

00:55:52:14 –> 00:55:55:28
It’s very frustrating. Done Dave. Very well done. Frustrating. That’s right.

00:55:56:25 –> 00:56:05:17
But having, so I took myself outta the field mainly just due to schedule. I was too, had too many commitments. Had a sheet punter that just the hunt went long, long, long. And it was back when, well that was a

00:56:05:17 –> 00:56:06:00
Cold sucker

00:56:06:00 –> 00:56:13:00
In the, it was back when you could buy lanter tags and resell ’em back in those days for all of you people. This was 10 years ago or more. I don’t know how long ago it was

00:56:13:00 –> 00:56:13:20
Legal to broker him.

00:56:13:27 –> 00:57:21:04
That’s right. But the, the put yourself in the field is exactly right. And the diversity thing, having options and, and everybody can only do what they can do. And what I mean by that is, if right now you’ve only got two to $400 or $200 or one other state behind besides your own home state to apply and that’s all you can do. But as you can add more options, do that and have the variety. The states like the Idaho and New Mexico, we like them. Look at this year it’s setting itself up to be New Mexico. To be off the charts. The moisture’s been unbelievable for elk. Last year was terrible. It was terrible. Probably terrible of the worst in 10 or 15 years, you know, in terms of widespread drought, longer air, longer. All right. This is one of those years that’s not shaping up to be that. It’s nice to have ears like that put in for it to try to draw a tag. Even an average unit might be awesome off the charts this year. Just like Colorado being in the, in the field in a one or two or three point unit in the year that you get crushed with snow at the end of October, November. I’ve been on units like that. We all have Jason, we’ve all been on units that take zero to one point to draw thirds and been there. Like, this is unbelievable.

00:57:21:07 –> 00:57:53:28
If you want to kill a buck with cheaters, the d diameter of cigars, you gotta be in the field. You know what I’m saying? We all want the freaking giants and you can’t have giants sitting at home. So, but there’s, but there’s strategy to it. You don’t just go out and waste all your points. Having said that, you know, there’s guys in our license, app service, we cap our service at $500 when, you know, once you reach 500 spending, spending with us, we don’t charge you anymore. And so it’s one of those things, there’s a lot of our guys at 500, they could add species. No, no additional fee to us.

00:57:54:04 –> 00:57:55:13
And minimal to the states. Minimal

00:57:55:16 –> 00:58:13:14
To the state. Minimal to the state. Load your portfolio and let yourself options. Get your points. Give yourself, give yourself the opportunity to give your kids tags. Yeah. Have the points to draw. At some point it’s gonna mean something to you. And you cannot buy time. You cannot buy time. You can buy points. You cannot buy time.

00:58:13:15 –> 00:58:32:16
Well, in some new states, you can’t buy yourself in, you know, Arizona, you know, there’s no way to say Wyoming. Hey, I, I usually book my hunts and all that. Well, if you wanna hunt Arizona, there’s no way to do that. You, unless you’re gonna buy a governor tag for two, three, 400,000. Yeah, that’s it. That’s a hundred percent. You don’t go buy landowner tag and hunt unit 10. You, you draw a tag in hunt unit 10. That’s

00:58:32:20 –> 00:58:47:14
Right. There’s no conservation tags. Of course, Utah’s great at that. There’s a lot of tags you can buy. But even, and, and that might be a way you do it. And, and, and we have a lot of clients that do that. And that is great because they realize it’s gonna take ’em 20 years to draw or whatever. And so we understand that. And we play that game too.

00:58:47:16 –> 00:58:58:07
Or landowner tags that are, they’re a lot more in the realm of I guess just normal blue collar, you know, affordability. The thousand to $3,000 landowner tags in a certain unit in Colorado that’s,

00:58:58:09 –> 00:58:59:12
That’s doable. Or elk in New Mexico

00:58:59:15 –> 00:59:01:02
Or elk in New Mexico. You can do that.

00:59:01:10 –> 00:59:50:08
I had a guy the other day call me and he says, you know, I used to look at landowner tags as evil. Like I felt like they were cheating, they were evil. They were this still, still from the public guys. Yeah. And what you’re, those tags are gonna be divvied out no matter what. The 10% of the Colorado tags are gonna be unit wide landowner type tags. You, somebody’s gonna buy ’em. If you want to hunt, if you want to hunt, you might put that into your portfolio. Once in a while, I buy a landowner tag. I might go buy a landowner tag in New Mexico. These are unit wide tags. It’s like you drew the tag. It’s not like you’re paying to hunt some private high fenced ranch. I mean, this is one of those opportunities where you bypass this, the draw and you go hunt a little more regular or find a tag that you like to hunt. Regular 52 for elk in New Mexico. Go once you learn it, go twice, go three times fourth year. You

00:59:50:08 –> 00:59:51:16
Draw it, go have fun. Yeah. Fourth

00:59:51:16 –> 00:59:52:12
Year you draw it, whatever.

00:59:52:22 –> 00:59:59:04
And I know some, this sounds like we’re contradicting ourselves and in some ways we might be actually country we’re

00:59:59:04 –> 01:00:00:04
Telling. What do you mean? But

01:00:00:23 –> 01:00:06:24
Okay, we’re saying, well we don’t think you ought to just be a meat hunter, but you know,

01:00:07:05 –> 01:00:08:04
We don’t Jeff. Yeah.

01:00:08:20 –> 01:00:10:01
But but we also

01:00:11:05 –> 01:00:15:00
Off but go more often. Shoot stuff. It’s about the memories and all that. But I think

01:00:15:17 –> 01:00:16:20
What we’re getting at from,

01:00:16:23 –> 01:00:18:29
From all trophies can come from any unit.

01:00:18:29 –> 01:00:40:20
Yeah. I think what we’re getting at is there’s lots of states in your strategy, build it in broad. Don’t build don’t be so narrow minded. Just stuck in like, you know, so many residents here in Utah. Stuck in Utah. And I’m only thinking about this and I’m only planning this. It doesn’t work like that. You need to plan broad, spread extra. And, and it’s, you’re gonna have a different plan in Nevada right. Than you are in Colorado.

01:00:41:00 –> 01:01:01:22
Okay, Jeff, for me, so, so case in point, some of these guys in Utah want to just kill giant Mueller. Henry’s is the only place I’m going. Okay. The Oak Creek’s been freaking smoking giants the last two or three years. Yeah. Giants, right? The best unit in the state of Utah right now. Yet how many people are playing from Henry’s? ’cause in their mind that’s the best unit. Huge draw. They cannot change. They cannot change. You gotta

01:01:01:22 –> 01:01:39:23
Roll with the Hing game has changed. Yeah. Units come on. They fluctuate. But you also, it it, you know, and to some extent services like ours can keep you on top of stuff like that. But you’ve also gotta be able to have your brain be able to switch year to year and go with what, what’s what’s going on right now. I I alluded to it in New Mexico a minute ago. Arizona’s, you know, parts of Arizona, especially eastern Arizona, the same. The moisture’s off the chart. It’s off the chart all so reevaluate every year be way more aggressive. You know, you know, if you got points to draw an arch, you’re tag and you’re only holding out for unit 10. Maybe you look at a unit like 27 and you’re like this, it’s gonna be off the chart. It

01:01:39:23 –> 01:01:54:10
Is. Those burns are gonna be unbelievable. And we’ve talked about this new burn up here, Pengu Lake, we’ve talked about the burns on Manti and the bulls that have been coming off Manti. Yeah. In your mind, man, three hundreds been at 300, 3 30, 3 40, the odd, three 80 odd three 70 or whatever. Lots

01:01:54:10 –> 01:01:54:22
Of tags. But

01:01:54:26 –> 01:02:11:11
Dude, it’s changing. Things change. And we talk about that in our magazine. You’ll find that again, it’s monthly covers all the western states. It’s December through June where when all the application periods are, are open and, and we cover it all. And so anyway, modify ’em anyway. That, that is part of

01:02:11:11 –> 01:02:51:08
Your system. Yes. And that’s how every year, you know, and we’ll probably have to get into this in another podcast about how we really analyze our personal year. But every year we are, I will say we are very good about wiping the slate clean. What do I want to get? And for Jason and I, to some extent this year we’re trying to simplify our lives. I’m probably gonna guide personally fewer hunters myself so I can hunt more myself for deer or other tags that I hope to draw. That’s really a main focus of mine. And I know Jason Da daily is yelling through my window as I start talking about an analog in New Mexico or something. You’re like, what about that consolidation and scope, narrow of scope.

01:02:51:16 –> 01:02:54:14
Well, Adam will come up with some hair brandand. It’s so hard when you’re, it’s

01:02:54:14 –> 01:02:54:16

01:02:54:29 –> 01:03:01:14
We’re covering the states and him and I, like he’s taking a state, I take a state and we’re writing and, and we’re crunching all the statistics. You

01:03:01:14 –> 01:03:01:19
Can get

01:03:01:19 –> 01:03:27:26
Fired up and then all of a sudden he, he all of a sudden outta nowhere goes this c steer in freaking 31 are amazing. Whatever it is. Right. I’m just, just an example. Obviously that hasn’t come and gone yet. So anyway, but just as an example. And I’m like, Adam, remember remember simplification, a, you got a wife B, you got a wife, okay C, you’re gonna have a few clients and d you’ve talked about this, this tag and this tech we know about that are guaranteed the odds that are guaranteed

01:03:27:26 –> 01:03:28:07
Pretty close,

01:03:28:07 –> 01:03:34:16
They’re guaranteed. And so, and then he’ll come up with, nah, I’m thinking about such and such. And I’m like, duh.

01:03:35:16 –> 01:03:41:23
And he’s like, he well, and he will say there’s the tag junkie coming out and you know, or I’ll say the same thing to him. Those

01:03:41:23 –> 01:03:41:28

01:03:41:28 –> 01:03:42:08

01:03:42:23 –> 01:04:03:25
Are his genetics are tag junk. We used to have a little, well we wanted to put a little label but our tag junkie ’cause I mean I was, the art of getting tags is pretty fun. Yeah, it is. There’s a lot of nuances and little intricacies, gaining points for the dedicated hunter program. All the while you’re applying for everything else dear and, and just little things to prep for. Well that’s a sore spot. That’s

01:04:03:25 –> 01:04:04:22
Right. What’s that? The

01:04:04:22 –> 01:04:06:18
Gaining points for dedicated hunter. I’m sorry. Oh,

01:04:06:22 –> 01:04:25:02
I, I did miss that on that because I have a lifetime license and I can get every tag I want. General every year I want. But the last few years, I’ve been guessing wrong in January, February as to which season I’m gonna have the most time to do. And I’ll guess rifle or muzzle letter one year. And then I get crushed. My boy draws a muzzle letter

01:04:25:09 –> 01:04:31:13
Last June by June tag and riding of 14 magazines. We start to get a pretty heavy schedule. ’cause we got excited

01:04:31:21 –> 01:04:43:14
Over stuff that didn’t matter. So it’d be nice to have a, a dedicated hunter tag, even though I have a lifetime and can get that every year in Utah. It’d be nice to have, well my muzzle loader hunt. I don’t have time, but I’ve got time in archery this year. I wish I had an archery tag

01:04:43:28 –> 01:04:51:12
And to go back to eating tags, couple of my best bucks came off. Utah General, how many tags do you think I’ve eaten in and around those bottles? Well, in

01:04:51:12 –> 01:04:51:14

01:04:52:18 –> 01:04:54:01
15 to 20 tags I’ve

01:04:54:01 –> 01:05:20:04
Eaten. Well if we both added up how many years we could hunt the general in a life It’s about 30. I mean we’re 28 to 30 since we were 15 years old. Yes. Right. 30. Yeah. 30. About 30. Okay. How many of your 200 inches are there in your question? Two to three. I’m I’m going from memory. Two. Okay. And not that it takes a 200 inches to be worthy of pulling a trigger. No it doesn’t. But that’s what we’re talking about. But

01:05:20:04 –> 01:05:30:11
Point even from a trophy hunter’s perspective, we’re saying you should eat those tags, have those tags in your pocket so you have the ability when you’re out with your boys or whatever and you find a giant that you can hunt it.

01:05:30:11 –> 01:05:47:26
Yeah. Or it’s a year. You don’t draw much. Last year I thought that was gonna be it. And then my, one of my kids drew a tag Right during my muzzle lit general hunt. So I, I couldn’t hunt it. And that just happened. And things happened. We’ve drawn tags in the tag junkie days. Jason and I have drawn reservation tags on the Navajo. We had every, we

01:05:48:03 –> 01:05:49:07
Gave them more money than the ever.

01:05:49:13 –> 01:05:52:16
We did. We were, I went, I was running up

01:05:52:16 –> 01:06:00:06
Truck cameras on springs. And what I realized out there, every, every spring has 14 hogans or even one with 14 people in it.

01:06:00:06 –> 01:06:01:04
Well dogs.

01:06:01:04 –> 01:06:06:06
And they are eating everything that comes to the spring. They’re eating it. They so there’s no deer. That’s right.

01:06:06:26 –> 01:06:22:14
Oh, they’re killing the deer. We’ve viewed it, we’ve viewed it like we would ourselves on public b l m international forest land. And we did it, we did different units to just crush a couple different units and we drew and we had, we put tags in our pockets. Yeah. But we didn’t do much more than that. And

01:06:22:14 –> 01:06:26:04
They didn’t taste good either. Yeah. They said no different than any other paper tag that we’ve eaten. That’s

01:06:26:04 –> 01:06:26:23
Right. And the

01:06:26:23 –> 01:06:32:06
Nice thing is there’s a electronic tags now coming out in Oregon, in New Mexico and they will taste better all you because

01:06:32:06 –> 01:06:32:18
They’re not

01:06:32:18 –> 01:06:32:25

01:06:33:09 –> 01:06:39:13
All you’ll have to do, all you have to do is when you’re done with hunt, swipe right and hit delete and it go, it does forever’s. It goes away. It goes away.

01:06:39:23 –> 01:06:45:11
I think the question that we’re all sitting here wondering is what are you doing for antelope in Colorado? Jason?

01:06:45:14 –> 01:06:48:24
Yes, I have that all year. Jason. Every year you’ve got come.

01:06:48:28 –> 01:06:49:08

01:06:49:08 –> 01:06:50:15
You have 20 plus? Oh, I

01:06:50:15 –> 01:06:50:25
Got a lot.

01:06:51:14 –> 01:07:00:27
You know what I think your wife does too. And I keep bringing it up. Especially after that last podcast. Jana is, she’s ready to hunt. She Jason, I heard she’s primed and ready to hunt. She’s been

01:07:00:27 –> 01:07:01:09
Ready for years.

01:07:01:16 –> 01:07:02:08
What a better

01:07:02:19 –> 01:07:03:15
Again, we have kids.

01:07:03:19 –> 01:07:21:00
What a, there’s there, the youngest one can feed, almost drive herself. I mean, you really have no excuse. I know. So I think that to tee, tee it up up this year. It’s January. You should do a husband and wife antelope hunt together in Colorado. She, I ’cause I know you put her in for points too. Oh, let’s do it. Alright.

01:07:21:23 –> 01:07:46:26
I’m not gonna do that. But I’m gonna, I am gonna apply for points only. All right. So anyway, there’s so much, there’s so much that goes into what we’re talking about. We even could go into like once you, people are scared to draw too many tags and, and you can turn these tags back. And if you and some of these tags, if you turn ’em in before 30 days of when the season starts, you can even get your money back and your points. And so there’s a lot that goes into this. It’s for another day. Yeah.

01:07:47:02 –> 01:08:04:21
But just briefly though, to add to that, I I we’re, we’re talking about being scared to fail or not. There’s people that turn the same deer tags in 10 years in a row in Utah or, or you know, ’cause there’s no, there’s no, there’s no recourse. You turn it in, you get your point back. Plus one, you draw it again. We

01:08:04:21 –> 01:08:08:06
Know a guy with what, 25 desert resident points. 26, what is it?

01:08:08:17 –> 01:08:21:13
26 I think a lot. Yeah, A lot. You know, but he can go. But, but the deer tag, the deer tags. How many good years have gone by in the last 10 or 12 years? And is it better now than it was over there? Didn’t, no, it wasn’t, it’s gotten worse.

01:08:21:18 –> 01:08:23:00
Tell me this, is it gonna get better?

01:08:23:16 –> 01:08:23:23

01:08:24:04 –> 01:08:25:10
Does anything get better?

01:08:26:15 –> 01:08:26:25

01:08:26:25 –> 01:08:28:19
Better at killing stuff. Sometimes you’ll

01:08:28:19 –> 01:08:28:28
Have a burn,

01:08:28:29 –> 01:08:30:06
You’ll have something happen.

01:08:30:13 –> 01:08:47:22
But if something gets better, like Colorado deer, a winner will bring it back into reality or Yes. Or something else. Stick like a winner kill. That’s a winter you’re talking about kill. Yeah. A winner happens. It brings it back to end into check. Or you get, like I alluded earlier, a commission meeting. 10 minutes, you can negate 10 years of benefit.

01:08:47:22 –> 01:08:57:22
Well, 10 minutes. I, we’ve watched it, especially Nevada, Arizona. We would attend those meetings and you watch it with the stroke of a pin, you get an extra five days on a hunt or, or, and it makes the hunt or

01:08:57:23 –> 01:09:00:23
Five days get taken away in the two forties. It breaks the hunt, the two forties.

01:09:00:25 –> 01:09:16:00
Some of those strokes of a pin either change things for the better or the worse. And then it’s up to you to be on top of those changes and to react. I’ve got the points that changes monumental. I’m gonna take the risk. Nobody’s ever done that before. Let me go. I’m gonna see if I can kill something big.

01:09:16:02 –> 01:09:17:14
Yes, that’s right. Well, so

01:09:17:21 –> 01:09:23:04
Anyway, we need to have a succession of a couple of podcasts during this application season. I

01:09:23:04 –> 01:09:27:10
Think we will, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve hammered a, this has been a philosophical type podcast.

01:09:27:17 –> 01:09:39:29
I wanna know next week what your personal application strategy is. Okay. And then I want you to tell us what it is, two weeks from that point, because I know there’s gonna be some changes. ’cause you’re not gonna be as excited about Well, some obscure

01:09:40:09 –> 01:09:43:05
Well, you’re gonna be on to the next state and research in the next state. I’m pretty sure

01:09:43:10 –> 01:09:46:05
Pretty soon I’m gonna have you in the malhere unit in Oregon.

01:09:46:14 –> 01:10:00:10
I was gonna say we just, we just are getting done with the February magazine. We covered New Mexico, Utah, and Oregon. And I’m very excited about stuff in Utah for a few reasons because of forcing the draw. Maybe a sheep, maybe a family member on an elk tag. And I’m And Mexico. Mexico.

01:10:00:15 –> 01:10:03:19
I’m, I’m fired up for New Mexico. There are changes. Yeah. They

01:10:03:19 –> 01:10:04:08
Had a four year,

01:10:04:21 –> 01:10:09:05
They had a four year reconvening, so to speak. And where they visit everything,

01:10:09:05 –> 01:10:14:18
Everything’s on the table and you add moisture to it. It’s just like primed. Okay. Change,

01:10:14:22 –> 01:10:17:02
Change equals giants. Yeah, it does.

01:10:17:15 –> 01:10:18:14
It just does. Now Oregon

01:10:18:20 –> 01:10:45:12
Oregon’s been a frustrating state. They have, they have the genetics to have giants. They, they just, they just manage for the masses. General season. Yeah. They, it’d be like our entire state being general season. However, private land, thick trees, whatever. There are a few giants that come out and then there’s a few select units that don’t have over the counter elk tags or over the counter deer tags. And you can see that. You can see it. And they basically tell you, these are over the counter for elk. Good luck to you. And there’s only five or four that are

01:10:45:14 –> 01:10:56:16
Oh. And, and to paint them in a little bit better picture. And to show them my appreciation. In 2008 I did get a, a California Bighorn tag. I know. And in 2004 you didn’t get one.

01:10:56:23 –> 01:11:00:25
I know we both drawn a Cali tag and of course we’ve said that story a hundred times. So,

01:11:00:29 –> 01:11:05:20
But it’s worth saying again to end on a high note with Oregon. And now we’re moving on. We love

01:11:05:20 –> 01:11:11:12
Oregon. Thank you for the, for our Rockies. Well Callies but Rockies. Let’s call

01:11:11:14 –> 01:11:52:26
’em Rocky. Well, speaking of sheep tags, let’s talk about full Crow society real quick. All right. Jump into it At the Western Hunting Conservation Expo, which is February 14th to the 17th, we will be there. You can jump [email protected]. They have 200 additional Utah big game tags that you can apply for $5 each per entry. You can only apply for each hunt once nobody can stack the odds in their favor apply once you do have to actually attend the Western Hunting Expo to actually validate those entries. You can apply for ’em [email protected] prior to then. But you do have to show valid photo ID when you get there to, to show they want you in the door. Yep. This is a a a means while you’re

01:11:52:26 –> 01:11:53:23
In the door, come visit us.

01:11:53:25 –> 01:12:48:00
Yeah. Come visit us. We’ll have a booth there. This is a means through the Utah Tourism Bureau, the Utah Life Elevated initiative to get people to come to Utah. That’s largely what these 200 cash come to Utah. Bring your, bring your wallets and all that. In addition to the expo on the Saturday, February 16th, Saturday from about, oh, I think it’s about 10 to one or something. They have a full, what is called the Full Curl Society Social, where we’ve always been a sponsor of that. We love going to that event. It’s just a bunch of people in the room and they’re gonna draw 11 sheet parts. It’s pretty fun there. That day’s pretty fun. Some of those you have to be in attendance. The majority of which, probably half of ’em you probably don’t. So you can buy tickets in advance for that. There’s some tickets. You can’t, you have to buy for a dollar stone and you can’t put in for if you ever kill their dollar stone. So odds vary by, by Ben based on if you’ve ever killed or not.

01:12:48:00 –> 01:12:50:04
I wonder, I wonder if a light fanon counts. Huh?

01:12:51:05 –> 01:13:07:22
I read the fine print. I believe a fanon will probably count as a stone in, in this example. And I would not wanna be you if your name was drawn on one of those that says you cannot kill the stone. Good. Because you’re gonna get, you know, chopped up made into soup. So

01:13:07:22 –> 01:13:09:18
Yeah. Anyway. And then we also are, we’ll be there.

01:13:09:18 –> 01:13:09:25

01:13:09:25 –> 01:13:25:00
We’ll we’ll be there as well as phone scope will be there. Good buddy. Ton owns phone scope. We’re super appreciative of him. Speaking of phone scope, we’ve gotta download a bunch of our video, Adam, that we took via ton’s little device and give it to Chris. We’re gonna have a course of video running in our booth there at the expo.

01:13:25:05 –> 01:13:27:11
Some of the fun stuff we got to see and do this year,

01:13:27:15 –> 01:13:55:20
All of which was captured using his device, the phone scope. And with the new phones, it’s amazing. The footage is unbelievable. We even used that on the Ridge TV show. It was showcased on the outdoor channel. Been using chest and phone scope for many years. Super good guy. Go to www.phone scope.com or you can simply apply an our raffle. You apply and buy a a $500 pick ticket package in our raffle. And you’re gonna get a phone scope for free as well as the epic hunting knife. Yeah.

01:13:55:29 –> 01:14:08:24
Outdoor edge epic version. That’s right. With a couple extra blades. Outdoor edge, awesome knife phone scope.com. P h o N e ss k o p e.com on that. So are we

01:14:08:24 –> 01:14:09:01

01:14:09:20 –> 01:14:21:04
I think so. We’re worked up into a frenzy. It’s all, I’m sweating. It’s Sweating’s the time of year’s hot. We’re excited. It’s January. We’re all batting a thousand right now in the draws. Unless she applied for Utah Turkey and didn’t draw, which I think we both did my

01:14:21:07 –> 01:14:26:17
Yeah, no, no, sorry. And, and my kids two out, one out of the three to actually drew.

01:14:26:26 –> 01:14:30:00
Awesome. That’s awesome. So she’s rubbing it in the boys space.

01:14:30:03 –> 01:14:30:26
That’s awesome. She’s

01:14:30:26 –> 01:14:32:02
Firing up. Well that’s perfect dude. So,

01:14:32:02 –> 01:14:32:29
So yeah. The other boys.

01:14:33:01 –> 01:14:54:00
Yeah. But as a big game tags, we’re all pretty much out there batting a thousand. So we wish y’all luck in the draws. We hope you use the magazines as a tool to help you acquire more and better tags. And the take home messages today is to, to get after it. Don’t be afraid to fail. Don’t. Don’t let your points hold you hostage. Use them. Be while you can.

01:14:54:13 –> 01:14:58:04
All right, well let’s get back to work. Let’s send Utah, New Mexico and Oregon to the printer.