EP 117: Which State has the Best Draw System? In this episode of the Epic Outdoors Podcast we discuss the different draw systems in the West–which states have it right, which states need improvement, and what would we change if we could. We talk about the new changes in Colorado for 2019 and how these changes affect our draw strategies. This is a fun episode that will help you better understand each individual state and their draw systems.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

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Having your name in the hat, even though the odds are long, every hat that you can afford to be in,

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It takes a lot to stay on top of some of these states and some of the changes that have been implemented this year and to their draw systems and how they work and

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Anything to do with Western big games.

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody. Jason Carter. John Peterson. Chris Peterson, Jeff John and Adam Bronson here coming at you from Southern Utah here in Cedar City. Doing a little bit of a podcast. We’re kind of shooting from the hip. Chris tries to give us an outline and we look at it and who knows where we go. Deviate from the start. But we did have a couple of things we wanted to talk about, mostly about the state draws since we’re all in the right in the middle of the draw process, applying for tags like it’s our job, which it is. Before we get started, we wanna thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. They sponsor us and all we do, we appreciate them. If you, if you ever need any good gear, go to ua.com and you can find everything. Of course, your wife finds lots of gear on there too, whether it be hunting or not. So anyway, they’ve got everything start to finish for all your hunting needs, lifestyle needs, whatever. So, alright, let’s get started with this thing. Where are we gonna start? Bros. Kick us off here. I don’t know. We’ve been, we’ve been teasing each other a little bit on what we’re doing. Of course, you know Jeff, he wants to keep quiet on what he’s applying for. Chris, he, he divulged a little something, something today. Chris never divulges anything. Chris

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Doesn’t divulge. He’s probably quietest one.

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Chris hard. We whipped him hard. Last podcast. We gotta give him a break this time. We, we, we spurred him pretty good about a few things, but anyway, it’s just

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Shed dogs. That’s all I remember. Hashtag shed dogs.

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Oh, now it’s coming back to

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Me. I was a little

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Slow picking that up.

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Well, so it’s basically in the middle of it right now. We’re in the busiest time of year for applying, there’re Colorado deadlines this next week that’s on our mines first and foremost. But right behind it, you got Nevada, you got Montana, moose, sheep and goat, Idaho Moose, sheep up Kansas. And so it’s just, it’s coming really hard and really fast right now. And it feels like, I think we’re what maybe prompted a few discussion is, man, it takes a lot to stay on top of some of these states and some of the changes that have been implemented this year and to their draw systems and how they work and you know, what each state’s doing right and what we like about it. What, which each state maybe isn’t and what we either don’t like or maybe how we try to take advantage of one system or another in general, I guess. Wouldn’t you say guys? We like the variety. Variety they say is, well, variety is

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The spice of life.

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That’s what I was fishing for right there. You picked up what I put down. But, but we do like it. I mean if every state was a preference system like Colorado, why even apply if every, every state was, you know, completely random, it would get old too. ’cause people like me especially, I’m not especially lucky and I would never draw it. Points do gain you some advantage in some of the states that have point systems, but there are some that are better than others. Yeah, I

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Think part of it is Adam, we had, we were talking to a guy and he was disgruntled with the Colorado system thinking how bad it was. Never get a tag in his lifetime. And we’re looking at it like we can get a tag every single year.

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I can You can plan for as

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A non-resident giving Yeah, as a non-resident. How,

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You can’t complain about that

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Every single year.

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I can go to Colorado as a

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If you want. Say can’t even hardly do that in a Utah general deer. No,

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No. You can know as

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A resident. Yeah,

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As a resident of Utah, you’re not, unless you got dedicated a hunter and you’re locked in for three years, your lifetime licenses with some of its habits, you’re nice. But if you’re just entering the draw as a normal person,

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Okay, normal people, normal people walking down the street. Okay, keep going, keep going with this

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Then yeah, your odds are 50 50 in most places or you need a point to guarantee one. Yeah, it’s a preference. Much like Colorado. So yeah, our rebuttal is him is, well geez, if you only want to hunt, you know, the northeast or northwest corner of Colorado for elk, yeah, you’re right. You’re wasting your time. I get that. But if you want to hunt 44 deer third or fourth season, I get that. But we don’t view Colorado that way. We, we really view it as go as often as you can. There’s a variety of ways to do that. Whether it be second choice tags, turn back tags, easy to draw tags on, zero to one, two points. There’s

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A few, a few guys even in Colorado killing like 3 40, 3 50 bulls on over the counter type tags. And so Colorado has, like you said, Adam, the northwest corner. Absolutely one tag in your life if that, most guys will never get it in their life, you know, ’cause you gotta apply for so many years and it is preference, you guys with more points have press preference over guys with less points. And that’s how it works for, for dl. Cantelope sheep is a weighted point system after three. So once you get three, that’s the max you can get as far as preference points. Then you got a weighted bonus point and you do have decent shot. We, we have the odds listed in our publication, epic Outdoors magazine as well as on our website. So if you’re at work, you don’t have the magazine, you can obviously look up drawing odds for any and all units that we can apply for in, in all the states. So anyway, kind of a newer feature. But having said that, we list the odds with number of people that had three preference and then after that the weighted bonus points will come into effect. But you can’t really calculate those. Your, your random number’s gonna be divided by your weighted point system plus

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One. Yep. And

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Who knows what that is. And that begs a whole nother discussion on whether opting outta that point is worthwhile. It’s, it’s up for debate. I mean it’s hard to maybe quantify if you’ve got a bunch of weighted points already in the draw, maybe just enter a draw and call it a day and pay

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That out. Don’t pay the hundred bucks, you’re in it nine bucks plus your 81 small game. Kind of funny. Everybody’s asking us about this small game license, let’s just call it a hunting license. It, you have to get it either that or Turkey and, and turkey’s $151 or whatever. And so it’s obviously cheaper to get a small game license and that’s the prerequisite to apply. And so interesting thing, Adam and I have kids, John, you have kids, you can apply your kids and not and and get ’em a point and they don’t charge ’em the a hundred dollars point fee kind of cool. And the hunting license is small game license. We’re talking about, it’s like a buck 25, buck 50. And, and then we, and if you’re young or old, let’s just say young or old, you don’t have to do that stamp conservation stamp. So anyway, you’re sitting at very cheap to get points. Nine bucks,

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Get ’em

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The three

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Points pieces, basically

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Get ’em the three points and then after that for the rest of their life until they

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Turn 18, then decide. Yeah. Once they have to pay that. So one thing about Colorado, like so for the deer, it’s a great state for elk, they do need more options and we’re hearing rumblings that maybe during this next five year season structure and whole revamp, they’re looking at maybe adding some more elk units. I haven’t followed that super closely, but we know that that’s on the table. That kind of always is. But there’s a huge bottleneck on elk. We know that. And if you’ve got minimal points, you know we do list units in our mag that you can draw with zero to one or two points, five points for our tree, you know, one to two for rifle. Some of the 66 to 60 sevens or something like that. Men maybe kill a 300 plus bull. Occasionally a three 40 or 50 plus bull. Yeah. Said Adam bro

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Bronson, you go over there and smoke a three 50, huh? Or what was it? 3 55? I can’t, a few points.

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It’s not one of those units though.

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12 points. Well it was 10 15 point here. Yeah.

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Yeah. That had 10 points. You unit 43 60 bull, 360 1

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On public. Now a lot of guys would go there depending on the weather and get their butt kicked. I get it. That’s what we do in Colorado. We get our butts kicked and at times we do. Well and and a lot of that is, is based off of weather. And if you hit the weather just right and you get lucky why you’re gonna smoke a giant or at least have that chance. And so anyway, that’s what prompted, we love Colorado, but having said that, we love Arizona, we freaking, you know, I don’t know, Nevada’s a little stingy with their tags. We love the, the idea of squaring your points. Love it. Squaring your points is all exciting, right? Yes. Five times 5, 25 names in the hat versus five. But once you start get rolling and it’s a it, what do you call it, Adam? What’s an old point system? A well established point system. You’ve got tons and tons and tons of people with 15 and 20 points. Points. Yeah. You know, and then you start and then when they add all five choices, and we’ve talked about this at length, Adam, we, we’ve talked about this, you and I as well, we five choices there’s is killing the odds in Nevada.

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Yes they are. It’s, you know, you look at on deer, it can get distributed throughout the state to some extent. But like you look at desert sheep with roughly 20 units, most people put five. And so you’ve got the whole pulling on residents putting in five choices. There’s gonna be a lot of overlap in there versus hey, you had to pick one unit or let’s say two. I mean we’re not like saying two would be bad, but it’d be one or two is much better than

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Five. It’s better than five. Yeah. One’s the best case scenario. Forces you to choose.

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Yeah. What do you want? Yeah. It’s kinda like Utah general, when they went to taking your points

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On any choice.

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On any choice, it’s like, do you want to go for an archery and have good odds but you only get a bow tag? Or do you wanna stick to a rifle and and and maybe wait one to three years to get a tag.

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That’s right. Yeah. ’cause you could get a leftover tag or whatever. They still look at everybody’s first before they go to the second. But if you draw your second, you’re gonna lose your points on general. But Adam, I wanna make sure we wanna clarify that is for general is you’re gonna gain a point on, on the limited entry draws. So Well, and while

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We’re on that topic, we get a lot, every state is different in how they do their draw. And we get a lot of questions that people mix up. The two choices, three choices, five choices from state to state. You know, they’ll talk about Colorado. Colorado will list four choices on your application there and they think they can put four trophy units and maybe you have a chance at all four. No, your, your first choice is the only one in a state like Colorado or Utah that get looked at Wyoming’s, another one like that, that get looked at before they go to the second choice. The only way Montana. Yeah. You, you can’t draw a second choice unless those units were undersubscribed totally different in unique in New Mexico, Arizona where you get to Nevada, you get five

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Nevada, you get

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Five. Just keep that in mind when, when they’re taking points from you in those states, it’s because you draw into your five choices and they get looked at all before they go to the next applicant. Yeah. When you don’t lose your points in states like Colorado or Wyoming for drawing your second or third, third, it’s because the state wants to sell tags and if you put a unit as a second choice, that was a hundred percent for all the first choices. They want you to gobble up all those tags that quote people don’t really want. Yeah. And so they’re willing to let you clean them up. But take a tag and build a point. But just don’t confuse those state to state. A lot of people too will confuse the fact that they put four choices on an application in Colorado or Utah and think that, oh yeah, what, what does my first, second, third and fourth choice need to be? And they all want, you know, three 80 bulls in Utah or not gonna happen. You know, put units in Colorado that take 15 plus points down choice one through five. That’s right.

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Can’t we grind on Nevada for just a second here? Yeah, you made mention about it, but you really think about that and, and I don’t really want to pick on Nevada just completely Well

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We love Nevada.

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We love Nevada. Let’s be

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Clear. Yes. Let’s be clear.

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We want a tag in Nevada and that’s why, and you look at the

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Odds of all five choices is the problem.

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Yes. And so a guy like me, okay, I’ve drawn a tag in the last, I’ve drawn three tags in the last five, six years. Right? Well I’m coming into one or two points yet, but I’m going for, you know what I’m going for easy, easy, easy draw stuff. Right? But now think, think about that though. I’m going for easy draw stuff ’cause I’m drawn my name’s in the hat in 2 41 to 2 45, which

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Ticks me off. Which

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Ticks you off because you’re sitting there with 18 points

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And other guys points because you’re willing to, you’re willing to go to, let’s, let’s just say

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I’m throwing a hail Mary, I’m ruining the

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Odds area 16, right? Like yeah, whatever you’re willing to do the 1 61, 1 64, something like that. Yes. But, but if you got, but if you got lucky, I’ll take the two forties right From somebody that would put the two, two forties as the first and only choice. I’m

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All of us guys, just like you are crushing those higher point unit or those better units because we throw it on there. There’s That’s right. You know,

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And having said that, if you, you personally, what would you would have to choose, you know, and depending on what you got in Colorado or Utah or plan and other places

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That Yeah. How aggressive you’d be that year in Nevada

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And you’d get my name outta the hat for those, for those. I mean I really would like, this year

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I wanna only lot people that really care about us. And I’m not saying you don’t care, but let’s just say only people that live and die for that unit Yeah. Would apply for. So

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I’m gonna ask you this question Jason, let’s do a hypothetical. And this is, if you deserve

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The right to not answer it,

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You can’t plead the fifth. This, I’m not reading Miranda rights here. So anyway, if you had to choose one deer unit in Nevada Aw. And we know that two forties you’re fond of that and some of the others, would that be, would a, would one of those be your one and only choice?

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No. No. Maybe not.

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Probably not. Because only in the year that I, you were so jammed up that you couldn’t fit something else. Okay. Put it that year. But you want to get

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Attacked. I wanna get attacked. So like you’d be people out there, be surprised. I mean, I’m doing second and third and fourth choices in Colorado. Yes. I personally am doing it. Yeah. Because you can turn those back and get a refund and still gain my point. So I can get a refund if something happens. But, but why not? Why not?

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It gives you an option. Why not? Yeah. It gives you an option if and if you’re tied everywhere else and busy. Yeah, I’ll go hunt for three or four days in Colorado and see if I can hit a home run and, but in Nevada I, I would, I would say I wouldn’t put probably the elite units very often. No. Maybe, maybe an archery, but even then those odds are terrible. So, well thing

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About what we’ve found in Nevada and, and you guys know this Adam, you know it, I mean Jeff, you know you’ve been out, you’ve been out there. Chris has killed a freaking wide, crazy freaking awesome deer. You can kill a 200 inch or, and I just throw 200 out there like it’s nothing. Right? So let’s talk about like 180. That’s not true. Solid 180 plus. 80 plus in, I would say every unit. Almost everywhere. I mean maybe not like the 2 0 4 or something desert something,

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But, but

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Well I’ll have somebody call me and light me up over that and show me a picture of a two 20 that’s killed outta some swamp over there. I hope they don’t near a refuge. You know what I mean? Like with a short range web. I don’t know. You know, so anyway, there’s, there’s,

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There are nies with a horn shorter near tags in your back pocket.

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There’re there are, there are, there are big deer and any, almost anywhere you go. And like I was talking to a good buddy of mine that’s a big, a big deer fanatic, you know, he is man things odds are look terrible, this and that. And I said yeah, and it’s gonna push us out and then we’re gonna find that 1 41 has a freaking giant in it and the one fifties are gonna have giants. And all of a sudden you realize the whole state’s gonna have giants. You know, and, and, and all, all this time, you know, we’ve been concerned about the traditionally good units that produce the most deer in the book. And we might’ve shoulda have been looking, there’s another whole subject at other ones. Whole subject thinking, talking about deer in the book and the numbers. You know, when you have, let’s say Lincoln County, Nevada Lincoln in Eagle County, Colorado, right?

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That attracts the trophy hunters. The trophy hunters are hiring guides. The trophy hunters are putting time and money and energy into it and treating it like a once in a lifetime tag. So then success begets success, so to speak. It’s a snowball. All of a sudden you got Lincoln County continuing to produce because it got the name and now people are putting more into it versus these other units. It’s like General Utah. Well, it’s a general tag. I’m not gonna put a lot into it. So we don’t have the teams of hunters hiring teams of guides hiring, you know what I’m saying? And so you got a few big deer slipping through the cracks. And I think you have that in other places outside Lincoln County. Lincoln County’s gonna continue to produce, always will. We’re sinking the resources in.

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Yeah. But I guess the main take home is yeah. Is if if you didn’t have the ability to put five choices, there would be few people, the odds would get dramatically better on the better units. And that’s not what I think we would be in favor of doing. It was just, that would be a byproduct, but make people force what they really want. The archery, some of the mid, mid-season hunts would be probably better odds. Everything should get better odds. I mean really if you can have, if you can have one choice and force people what they want it, it’s like almost every other state does. You gotta really think about what you want. Yeah. You know, don’t archery,

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Archery on Charleston.

00:16:04:03 –> 00:16:04:12

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Huh. Oh,

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How about

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That? That’s right.

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Huh? Well, you know, on a year like this, I really wanna get a tag. I’m going, I’m probably,

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What are you gonna do

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In Nevada? I have no clue, but I’ll probably go archery. No, no, he’s such a liar. No, I, I don’t know yet. I don’t know yet. But I’ll probably go archery because I wanna be more aggressive. I want to draw. Right. Because this is a good year for it. Good moisture. Like, like, like it’s good timing. So, so anyway, I’m gonna be a little bit more aggressive than I normally would be in Nevada. And if I only had one choice,

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Does Angie know?

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Angie doesn’t know. Angie doesn’t know.

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She check the credit card statement from the last few

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Purchases. No, when we, well no, she from the Mexico sheet. Oh, I guarantee you she’s checked all that. She knows it’s already on the spreadsheet for the year of how much I’m spending on hunting. I’m sure. But

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It’s funny, they see the outflow, they don’t know what’s, they act like they, it’s not coming back like, well that was $3,000 for a Yeah,

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Yeah, yeah. That’s what they, you know, that’s what they see. And and visually on a credit card statement that gets paid off every month. That is a gulp is a big gulp. You know, when you apply for New Mexico, luckily Colorado here, you know, yeah. We gotta buy that license. It’s

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500 bucks. Last night I did it for my, and I have two youth, I’m still over 500 and that’s not counting. Yeah. What’s gonna crush me for sheet point fees later on in June. Yeah. So I mean it, it’s, it went

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Up well and you’re not getting that back. You’re not getting No, that’s gone. That’s gone. That’s not, that’s not coming back. Like New Mexico is,

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Come back, do good things with that Colorado, do good things.

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Your annual donation than too

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Send me, send me a tag. But, but do other good things with that too.

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So I think we love all the states, right? We’ve covered that. We love every system out there. Let’s just change every system. A couple things. I think we should change this. Having, being able to draw multiple sheep in the same state in your lifetime I think is kind of somewhat wrong in the, in the respect that tags are such a premium nowadays. It’s 21st century. Things need to change. Like you can, you know, multiple sheep, you got a five year wait on Rockies in Colorado deserts once a lifetime. Wyoming. Like Wyoming. Yeah. Wyoming. Wyoming another one. You know how, how about Nevada? Yeah. We’ve got guys that are dying with points, you know, literally residents. I feel bad for ’em. And then

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The guys are drawn their third desert. Yeah. Other guys are.

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So anyway, I know those are sensitive subjects, especially guys that have killed a couple of ’em and family members that have killed a couple of ’em, guys that have killed one that are continuing to apply for their second. But let’s just be honest. Yeah. Those are really once in a lifetime tags

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You’re taking, you’re taking tags from your kids. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean that’s, that it’s hard.

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Well speaking of that, here’s a controversial one. Ooh. I would outlaw tags, sheep tags for kids under Oh John 25. Oh my gosh, John’s brought

00:18:46:29 –> 00:19:13:12
That up. Got picture. So I drew a bison tag when I was 15 years old. Okay. I couldn’t drive, so I couldn’t do it justice. I was limited to what, you know, my dad could do and he was, and in and around his work schedule and whatnot and, and truly, I, I remember it but not like it was yesterday. You know what I mean? If I would’ve had the tag nowadays, I would’ve maybe appreciated a little bit more. Absolutely. You know what I mean? And, and but having said that was an awesome opportunity. So, but

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Let’s get kids hooked on hunting with deer and elk opportunities and not on let’s take the

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Quality opportunities away from ’em and let’s give

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The pheasants. So what would you say you’d say to be 18

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Johns prairie dog? Only? I would say un I mean I guess you’d go 18. I would say 30, but you know, watch 30

00:19:32:28 –> 00:19:33:08

00:19:33:08 –> 00:19:36:08
Old. Yeah. Holy. So there’s guys John, I wouldn’t have

00:19:36:13 –> 00:19:37:16
John my sheet tag

00:19:37:21 –> 00:19:38:07
If there weren’t

00:19:38:18 –> 00:19:39:23
That ram wouldn’t be on the wall.

00:19:40:00 –> 00:19:41:02
Yeah. I don’t think people are dying

00:19:41:07 –> 00:19:42:16
Of heart attacks at 30. John

00:19:43:15 –> 00:19:43:28

00:19:43:29 –> 00:19:45:05
Have high class for all. They

00:19:45:05 –> 00:19:46:24
Got stick 20 then, I don’t know what it is.

00:19:47:06 –> 00:19:47:16
14 bad

00:19:47:20 –> 00:19:48:18
Marriages, 13

00:19:48:22 –> 00:19:49:29
Legitimate kids. They’ve

00:19:49:29 –> 00:19:51:17
Got money flying out their pockets.

00:19:51:17 –> 00:19:52:10
But what about, can they

00:19:52:10 –> 00:19:59:18
Build points before that? That’d be fine. But there’s guys dying at 80 who aren’t getting a sheep tag and have tons of points. I don’t think that’s right.

00:20:01:00 –> 00:20:04:01
Some things in life aren’t fair. Got quite, it’s just the way, the simple

00:20:04:01 –> 00:20:04:07

00:20:04:08 –> 00:20:06:17
Sometimes you have a bad lot and you never draw shoes.

00:20:07:08 –> 00:20:08:08
I know that’s unfortunate.

00:20:08:11 –> 00:20:10:20
That’s why you go to Colorado. It’s preference guys with

00:20:10:21 –> 00:20:15:23
Most points, John. But I think mainly is, it’s fun. A kid’s not gonna appreciate what he has at 15.

00:20:15:26 –> 00:20:29:02
There’s part of it and that gets into the mentoring program and all that. But which I, I love, I appreciate because some people say, why does a kid get a jump to the front of the line and and take a mentoring tag? Well they didn’t, the person that drew the tag burned all their points to get

00:20:29:02 –> 00:20:30:29
It and they got to choose. They, they,

00:20:30:29 –> 00:20:32:14
Who wants to kill the animal? So, well,

00:20:32:14 –> 00:20:39:04
The downside I don’t like is what we’re applying grandma and mom and everybody else that doesn’t hunt, you know, to boost points. She’s

00:20:39:04 –> 00:20:39:18
Capable pretty much

00:20:39:20 –> 00:20:44:10
To boost points and, and point average or whatever we’re gonna call it, you know, point

00:20:44:10 –> 00:20:45:20
Guard once and twice. And

00:20:46:07 –> 00:20:48:26
So I, I do do like the fact that that grandma or grandpa

00:20:49:05 –> 00:20:50:12
Use the tag twice needs

00:20:50:12 –> 00:20:53:26
To be there with the kids. So like you have like Utah to be there in the field with them.

00:20:53:26 –> 00:20:54:23
Like Utah. Yeah.

00:20:54:27 –> 00:21:13:24
Yeah. It’s, and then if you want a point boost, that’s fine, but you know, you’re not gonna turn your tag back and get all your points back. You know what I mean? Like Nevada, you can point boost and then you can turn that tag back. The high point person, your grandma gets to turn their tag back in, keep all the points plus one and continue to help point boost everybody else in the family. They,

00:21:13:24 –> 00:21:35:28
They shut that down slightly in Utah with one person turn their tag in. All of ’em have to do it. Arizona’s got the one time point guard thing. You can do it once, do it once, but it’s still, people are doing it twice down there. Oh yeah. And with no intention of hunting the tag, which, how do you police everything. But I guess John, what we’re saying is we feel a little bit of your pain in some of these situations that don’t seem fair. But however, well

00:21:35:28 –> 00:21:38:06
If I was 18, my opinion would probably be different. But

00:21:39:26 –> 00:21:42:04
John’s just like, I’m just coming of age that

00:21:42:29 –> 00:21:46:07
I, I won’t be the only guy in the Sean here. The brass take care of things.

00:21:47:05 –> 00:21:48:10
I love it. Well when you’re looking

00:21:48:10 –> 00:21:54:28
At one sheep tag potentially in some states and then you think, eh, it’s like Nevada. It’s not guaranteed. Yeah,

00:21:55:20 –> 00:22:47:05
I think that kind of, let’s talk about having your name in every hat that you can have it in. I think, you know, it’s one of those things Adam, like we looked at, well and we teased Jeff about it with the credit card, you know, applying for, you know, 3,200 bucks into Mexico for a sheep is having your name in the hat even though the, the odds are long. But having them, every hat that you can afford to be in, you know what I mean? Yeah. That’s reasonable. Now the the refundable portion of the New Mexico is a lot. Yes. So the non-refundable is minimal. So it’s worth it now. So Adam, that’s like, you spent 500 bucks last night, how’d that feel? And if you do it times x amount of states, but I think it’s when we, when it’s manageable, the fees are manageable. Have your name in the hat. Honestly, we’ve been looking at like the Nevada sheep odds. I mean the odds in some of these, you know, oh man, raffles so to speak. Or like our membership drive or whatever, 10 times better than some of this other stuff.

00:22:47:07 –> 00:23:13:25
It’s a shell game. We’ve joked with that in the past when we had our wives on the podcast. That what you’re talking about Jeff, like, honey, that $10,000 is not gone. What do you mean? It says a minus 10,000 in a statement right here. It’s gone. No it’s not. It’s coming back when how, why you explain it. They call it the shell game. It’s a little bit of that. I’ll, I’ll admit, but if you just let ’em put up a long enough Jeff, they kind of quit bugging you about it. That’s been my experience. They just know you’re not gonna change.

00:23:14:03 –> 00:23:30:26
My wife wife’s building a divorce case against me. I dunno, trust, I don’t dunno. She doesn’t, she doesn’t grind me out too much, but I’m like, they’re not, but I know it’s accounted. If they’re not, trust me, they, she is, they’re building a case. They, you know, just they’re putting a deposit with a lawyer just in case. You know, just, I’m just gonna prepay this lawyer fees.

00:23:34:08 –> 00:23:35:06
All right, let’s move

00:23:35:06 –> 00:23:35:26
On. Let’s move on.

00:23:36:17 –> 00:23:58:19
We talked about some of the states that are what they’re doing right. Maybe what we’d like to see changed or things like that. But, but what I guess from a resident perspective, a non-resident perspective, let’s talk about it from that. I mean there’s some states that if you’re a resident, that’s a much bigger plus to, and that sounds stupid ’cause every state you’re better off as a resident. I don’t

00:23:58:19 –> 00:24:00:20
Know. Utah, we only get applied for two species.

00:24:00:28 –> 00:24:06:25
Utah’s probably one example. We can’t crush everything, but our odds are better than the non-resident odds because of that. And

00:24:06:25 –> 00:24:19:18
I think this is a priti prime time, I guess when, since we brought that up, Adam, is to talk about, you know, change in a state. Utah changed. We’re gonna charge a non-refundable hunting license fee to non-residents. So we need to make it worth it. We

00:24:19:18 –> 00:24:23:11
Gotta keep them applying or we’re gonna lose a lot of money. So their answer was

00:24:23:11 –> 00:24:23:25
Point every

00:24:23:25 –> 00:24:35:14
Species. And that sounds great until you realize, look at the antelope pods in Utah. Yeah. They’re, they’re terrible and they shouldn’t be in the past who picked antelope over deer and elk, right. As a, not only

00:24:35:14 –> 00:24:36:01
Guys that really wanted

00:24:36:01 –> 00:24:39:02
An antelope. Oh yeah. Like 5% truck

00:24:39:02 –> 00:24:39:13

00:24:40:11 –> 00:24:47:02
Who would do that? So now you look at the, the odds for antelope with 10 years of people doing it, they’re, man, it’s unbelievably terrible.

00:24:47:04 –> 00:25:39:06
And so, but, but Utah, listen to the residents. We didn’t want that. So we, we chose to be more restricted to keep our odds. Good. This is one my point with Nevada. Nevada might be scared to change. Listen to the non-residents. Listen to change our side. If the residents want to keep applying for five choices, I don’t care. Apply for five choices, you know what I mean? Allow us to apply for five. But really the first one’s looked out and then they go to the next guy, then they’ll go to the next guy and then we’ll clean up with choices two through five and gain a point. If we draw choices two through five, that’ll still clean up all the tags. And so, you know, change, I think sometimes we can split the system, change it for non-residents, leave it the same for residents, whatever. And and Utah did that. Arizona changed their system, you know, allowing for up to half the tags being able to be drawn in the max point tier versus half on the random ones. If non-resident there’s tag it goes random. Yeah. And so sometimes there’s need for change.

00:25:39:11 –> 00:26:13:26
Yep. That, that was, that was long overdue. I mean it was, most people weren’t even in the draw for, for the best elk and the best deer tags in Arizona back when all of them, all the non-res quota was being met in the maximum point draw. So it needed to change. It’s just hard when it goes for so long. And those that are the last hundred or so people in the, in the Deere max point posts, non-residents. I feel for ’em, I do it, it feels unfair because those that were in Max had, you know, all of the non-resident quota until they changed it. Now you’re only getting three tags for 13 B instead of six or seven.

00:26:14:05 –> 00:26:14:13

00:26:14:17 –> 00:26:43:26
So it doesn’t feel fair, but this is a little bit we’re buying into systems and not even on faith, just with, with what’s in front of us now stuff could change. This isn’t like a house with a 30 year contract, you know, on, on a PA payment plan. That’s not gonna change. You know, what you’re getting into stuff can change. Colorado’s a classic example of that. You had to buy in, write a paper app, buy in fees up front for moose, sheep, and goat for 15, 18 years, whatever it was. 20 almost. Yeah. Then boots

00:26:43:26 –> 00:26:44:04

00:26:44:04 –> 00:26:46:02
Time and then, and then all of sudden used

00:26:46:02 –> 00:26:48:23
To write credit card checks. ’cause they would take a personal check. Yeah. They would,

00:26:48:23 –> 00:26:55:08
You know Yep. Back when we were broke. You do that 0% credit card check, write ’em for all of ’em. Yeah. Get it back. Did that for Arizona too. And

00:26:55:08 –> 00:27:02:14
I don’t want, I didn’t wanna see that to change, but at the same time we’re freaking 2019. Yeah. You gotta, you gotta write a personal check. You’re filling out this

00:27:02:17 –> 00:27:05:17
With black ink and all caps and in a certain size envelope or you’re

00:27:06:01 –> 00:27:16:06
So last year, so last year they let everybody in for nothing. Didn’t have the a hundred dollars point fee. Everybody comes in, everybody whines. Whoa, whoa, there’s too many people. So now they charge a hundred dollars, everybody’s going, whoa, it’s expensive. Oh well

00:27:16:17 –> 00:27:26:20
What You we’ll modify it. Well you can opt out of that if you want. And now the people are pissed because the people with three and plus or whatever can enter the draw for nine bucks and

00:27:27:02 –> 00:27:30:20
Plus the 81 small game. But that’s good for the deer elk. You’re gonna do it anyway

00:27:31:01 –> 00:27:54:07
Probably. Yeah. So I don’t know, what do you do? You just gotta react and adapt. And I guess the diversity of these systems, you gotta find angles. You gotta look at things that, how it can maybe work to your advantage if it, if there is a possibility of it, you know, use the states that you can force the draw to your advantage to force the draw and then, you know, make, make the most judgmental decision you can on the other states. Whether it’s worthwhile to apply or not. So I think one

00:27:54:07 –> 00:28:17:18
Of the key things we need to discuss and talk about is just how important it is. Like, just like what we’re talking about at, when we’ve watched, you guys have all seen it, we’ve watched change happen. It’s slow. Maybe a little slower than we want. Right. But we watched change happen and you’ll wish you had the points, you’ll wish you had the points. I, I wish I continued to gain points in Wyoming for sheep when they went from $7 point fee and keep cranking up through

00:28:17:18 –> 00:28:19:04
75. Now 150,

00:28:19:20 –> 00:28:21:10
I wish. Right? I wish I gave up

00:28:21:18 –> 00:28:22:02

00:28:22:10 –> 00:28:35:02
I would’ve had a rocky, I would’ve had a rocky Adam. You would’ve too. I mean, so there’s things, we look back and we go, okay, you know, I wish I’d have done that. I didn’t see that change coming. So continue to gain points where you can afford to gain points. You know.

00:28:35:08 –> 00:29:28:02
Well we, we talked to an individual the other day as well that I, they had eight or 10 points for elk in Colorado. I can’t remember how many, let’s call it eight, but a, a mid, you know, a low to mid number. Didn’t know where to use them. And as a non-resident, that doesn’t give you a lot, a lot of options. There’s some options that you can do depending on your weapons. But the elite, what you would label as Colorado’s best are still, you gotta have 22 to 27 6 to even have a chance. Well, they met an individual and you know, I think guided him on a hunt or something like that. And the gentleman owned a ranch in southern Colorado in a unit that took two points to draw, but they’re killing three 50 bulls. All right. Yeah. Down stuff near Trinidad. All right. So ply went down there, had one of the best outcomes hunt of his life. Gave up 10 points to do it. But you never know, something might change. You know, when a point system glad you’re

00:29:28:05 –> 00:29:30:07
Prepared to take a advantage of the opportunities might come

00:29:30:12 –> 00:30:04:25
Work. I, I talked to a couple guys today that called, we’d already done their Deere applications for Colorado. And they said, well we, we wanna apply. We’ve got, we we don’t have the elk point, we don’t have any elk points we don’t think, and we can’t draw what we want. There’s a unit that takes at least one point to two points to draw for elk. All right? And, but maybe we will try to get a turnback tag. It was for an archery elk tag. And I said, well okay, you can do that. Can you list it as a second choice anyway? And I said, well it was only 17% chance last year was zero points. Yeah. I’ll put it as a second choice. It doesn’t turn anything. They’re not getting it. You’re not getting it. And I says, but lemme look you guys up. I looked them up.

00:30:04:28 –> 00:30:42:20
One of them had two points. One of them had one, both of ’em had nine for deer. They quit elk seven to eight years ago. Yeah. But they had two elk and one deer or two elk and one elk. They’re gonna drop because they don’t perge your points for 10 years in Colorado. I made their day. Now they can put it first choice and draw that elk hunt. Yeah. And go, because they had a point, they met an outfit over there that can take ’em on an archery elk hunt in a place that they want to go to. They want kind of ground truth. That last year, classic example, these guys are from Texas, they’re just retired and are wanting to hunt to a couple out counts a year. Yeah. Just opportunity hunts. And they had two and one point as residual from seven, eight years ago. So I

00:30:42:20 –> 00:31:09:02
Had a guy who applied, I went and looked at how many points he had where he just, just barely hired us to do his apps. And I went into the system and in 2011 was his last point that he got. And he had six deer points. Still, still hasn’t, hasn’t since 10 years. So I’m like, boom. Not only, you know, we’re gonna resurrect those points plus add one, everybody’s happy, but at the same time, look at how many points you’d have today. And those options would be have you’re giving up 190, you know what I mean? For nothing. It was, nothing

00:31:09:02 –> 00:31:10:02
Gave seven or eight points was a price of,

00:31:10:27 –> 00:31:45:05
Of the non-refundable application fee. And so I, you can tell anybody that’s listening to this, you can tell, like these states, they are complicated. It’s tough to, it’s tough to stay on top of it. We’re bantering every day, all day long. This is our job to apply and research and write the publication and whatnot. But it’s, it’s, it’s tough. And so anyway, I’m just glad I live near big deer country. You know, if I was a Wyoming resident, I’d be a little frustrated. However, a lot of those are Wyoming residents. Yeah. They get a tag every year. They’re general, every tier I can go hunting and I might kill a giant general. They’re not managed

00:31:45:09 –> 00:31:45:29
Talk giants.

00:31:46:10 –> 00:31:46:17

00:31:46:23 –> 00:31:57:01
We would change, man, I’d love to see Wyoming address that a little bit because you know, I mean in units that we are spending six, seven points to draw call region G

00:31:57:10 –> 00:31:58:06
G Yes. That’s what you’re talking,

00:31:58:06 –> 00:32:03:02
That’s what I’m talking about. Those guys are just buying a tag going every year and crushing it on the weekends and crush.

00:32:03:21 –> 00:32:23:20
But they get, there’s a price for that. A, a region G is nowhere near the quality It should be. They should be. Or could be. Could be. But but the residents are speaking loud, Jeff. They’re saying we don’t want, as a general rule, we want to hunt every year. That’s, that’s what they’re saying. And so, you know, then we get to decide, well do we apply there? Do we give him our money for the point? May or may not, you know.

00:32:23:20 –> 00:32:44:25
But it feels like, I even talked to a guy today, he, he just bounced outta Wyoming. He’s like, I’m done. I’m not, you know, he is like, he’s been doing the deer, he’s been doing the deer, elk and sheep. Yeah. And he’s finally like, dude, I’m not doing, I’m not paying, I’m not doing that no more. I’m not paying that money for the sheep. I’m not, he’s, I think he might be keeping the moose is what he said. Something like that. But, but everything else, he’s like, I’m well

00:32:44:25 –> 00:33:00:26
People are getting a point. Can’t do it. They’re getting a point for $150 for sheep for example. And it doesn’t help ’em in the random draw. No, they’ll never catch the max draw. So what are you buying it for? And it’s a forced, it’s a forced freaking outlay of the 150 when you go to apply. It’s not an option. Plus.

00:33:00:26 –> 00:33:09:10
Plus you’re two and a half percent now. ’cause it’s online only. So there’s another, I dunno, 68, 25 I think we did the, at the, just to put in for sheet fund, not

00:33:09:26 –> 00:33:11:05
Front front and the fees, front the money

00:33:11:05 –> 00:33:12:26
And then lose 2 25. So if

00:33:12:26 –> 00:33:18:19
You’re gonna apply, if you’re gonna pay the 150, at least be in the, in the draw. At least have the 100

00:33:18:19 –> 00:33:18:29
Don’t do points

00:33:19:05 –> 00:33:20:11
Shot or one in three 50.

00:33:20:11 –> 00:33:57:02
Yeah. Don’t do points only. Yeah. It makes it, and not to plug, I guess a service like ours at Epic Art doors too much because we’re obviously a private business that are in business to do what we do. Publish a magazine, strategize, help people get tags going hunts. But when you start talking about the kind of money that, that these states are charging, you’re talking 225 bucks to apply for a sheep hunt in That’s one Wyoming. Yeah. A hundred bucks to join our service for the year. You could probably have a few, just a couple of key things that you learn or understand better by subscribing to Epic Outdoors and using our service that you would save three times that amount.

00:33:57:02 –> 00:34:07:00
Dude, I, I saved a guy 150 bucks for sheep and moose in Wyoming. Yeah. But you know, he has no points. Why would you do that? Why would you gain a point for nothing? I mean, it’s not gonna wait until

00:34:07:00 –> 00:34:08:28
Next year and put in and the drop put for the first

00:34:08:28 –> 00:34:10:14
Time. Yeah. ’cause that, that 300

00:34:10:14 –> 00:34:11:05
Bucks is not,

00:34:11:13 –> 00:34:12:11
The point is you’re

00:34:12:11 –> 00:34:12:18

00:34:12:18 –> 00:34:13:10
Gonna have the same,

00:34:14:05 –> 00:34:37:17
And I don’t see change coming in Wyoming. They are slow to change. They don’t want to, they can’t even the, we can’t even get limited draw units in places like Region G that have the most amazing genetics in the freaking world or close to it. And so, and and they already have 25, 75 split where we have random tags, we have random tags, we have max point texts. What do you guys want? I mean, so I don’t see a lot of change coming. I would not give ’em the money

00:34:37:17 –> 00:34:46:28
And the res I, I, you know, and I get that they’re, you know, on the top end, they’re protecting the vote from the residents. I mean, that’s who puts the guys in office that makes changes. So I get it.

00:34:46:29 –> 00:35:40:16
And every state has that. I mean, we we’re a little more passionate about some of the stuff. We are close to home here in Utah. We’re a little bit more, I guess passionate about all the other states too because we, we play it hard. We research it hard, we write about it hard. But at the same token, we understand, we, we understand residents should have more say in their own state. We get it. But just like the Utah system for non-residents and residents, you can have differences. If something is more appealing for non-residents for one way, shape, or form or another, maybe bettering, drying odds and make you feel like the money you’re spending every year actually might get you something is more of an, a true investment instead of just a a black hole. That’s kind of what we’re talking about. Some of the changes that can make it, make the fees that we’re all having to pay, that are going up, feel like that is either worth worthwhile or I’m actually gonna get something for it. We realize, I’m not talking for guarantees, but it sure feel better in Nevada if I felt like the odds were better than what they have and

00:35:40:19 –> 00:36:05:26
Well, we’re so passionate about Nevada because the, the quality is amazing compared to the amount of resource they have to arid state. It’s, I mean, you know, but it’s amazing. You’re out there in the middle of nowhere all by yourself and how cool is that? You know? But I just, I think what we’re driving home is you have to play all these states. You have to play, you have to play ’em all. Even though, you know, if we just played in Utah, I’d have one elk to my name. You know what I mean? Oh,

00:36:06:04 –> 00:36:09:13
I, I’ve got one One, I got one. One big bull in

00:36:09:13 –> 00:36:15:24
My life. I, one when I was 15 maybe it was a rag horn. Five. Yeah. Backside of LaSalle Mountains came in from Colorado. Yeah.

00:36:16:28 –> 00:36:17:07

00:36:17:13 –> 00:36:17:22

00:36:17:24 –> 00:36:20:17
Ridge. Drew. And you drew one big bull tag and

00:36:20:18 –> 00:36:21:05
I drew one

00:36:21:05 –> 00:36:26:22
Big bull tag and then I drew one big bull and then we moved on to deer and I got a deer. And you’re still waiting on your deer. 10

00:36:26:22 –> 00:36:31:23
Or 15 points. But people could contend that. Yeah. But Adam, there’s general tags in Utah. General elk tags in Utah. What’s your answer to that?

00:36:32:06 –> 00:36:37:19
I’ve got better things to do. That’s my personal thing. That’s me. Don’t, don’t. I just,

00:36:38:07 –> 00:36:40:24
That’s well put something better to do. That’s well put. It is. Okay.

00:36:41:03 –> 00:36:42:29
How many bulls have you killed and you Utah Jeff?

00:36:43:06 –> 00:36:45:00
Just one. I’ve only killed one. Where?

00:36:45:00 –> 00:36:45:18
When and how?

00:36:45:25 –> 00:36:51:13
It was range crick Pack fricking general. No, it was when it was a limited entry.

00:36:51:13 –> 00:36:52:24
Oh, they were for five years or so. They

00:36:52:24 –> 00:36:56:22
Weren’t maybe. Yeah, before they got all, they got kind of weird in Range Creek. They started doing weird stuff.

00:36:57:09 –> 00:36:59:00
Are you applying for elk now? I

00:36:59:00 –> 00:36:59:16
Am. Because

00:36:59:17 –> 00:37:00:29
You drew the Henry tag. Yeah,

00:37:01:04 –> 00:37:02:00
I’m in Elk. Chris,

00:37:02:03 –> 00:37:04:04
How about you? How many elk have you killed in Utah? I’ve been doing

00:37:04:04 –> 00:37:06:07
Deer points. Yeah. Ever, ever since I I So you’re

00:37:06:07 –> 00:37:08:26
A resident. You can’t, you can’t apply elk Ever since

00:37:08:29 –> 00:37:12:24
I could apply, I’ve been doing deer and so I’ve never even had a chance to put in fur

00:37:12:25 –> 00:37:21:02
Elk. So if you weren’t, if you weren’t playing the other states, I mean, how are you gonna kill an elk? You wouldn’t No. This is what I’m, that’s what we’re talking about. Yeah. That’s what we’re driving home is

00:37:21:09 –> 00:38:19:10
You’ve gotta, if you wanna hunt it, it’s not, it’s a different era and it’s changing year by year and, and every five years it feels like dramatically to, to have, have western hunting opportunities. You have to be playing the draws. If you’ve got plenty of money and you can book your hunts and buy ’em, okay, that’s fine. But you, that’s a difference. We’re not talking about hunting your home state or hunting one state or hunting the closest state to you. Like I Colorado or in New Mexico, if you’re from, you know, the east, those are the two states that probably most people at Target in the Midwest or the eastern part of the US because you get to them first, right? Yep. But outside, you still can’t force your way in there. A deer is a little bit different over the counter Ry elk and second and third rifle elk can Colorado, you can do stuff like that. But you gotta have something, you gotta have some diversity and have a rotation or you’re gonna have a lot of years that you’re gonna have to spend money on a land or tag or, or just take a general over the seas, over the counter tag and accept that. That’s my hunt for the year. Otherwise it takes some aggressive planning. It does.

00:38:19:14 –> 00:38:24:06
We’ve got, we’ve got a significant portion of our, of our listeners on the podcast that are in their twenties.

00:38:25:11 –> 00:38:27:04
So how, how do you know? And

00:38:27:08 –> 00:38:29:04
Just from feedback. Oh okay. So

00:38:29:14 –> 00:38:32:13
Talk to a lot of guys that are well past twenties, John,

00:38:33:20 –> 00:38:35:13
They’re 30 and they sheep tag,

00:38:35:13 –> 00:38:37:05
You’re right. 60. Yeah. I’ve talked to a lot

00:38:37:05 –> 00:38:37:06

00:38:37:29 –> 00:38:38:02

00:38:38:02 –> 00:38:40:05
Lot that want sheep tag. Okay, go ahead John. Go ahead.

00:38:40:05 –> 00:38:40:11

00:38:40:14 –> 00:38:41:13
My question is, but

00:38:41:22 –> 00:38:43:19
Remember the twenties guys, you didn’t want ’em to draw a sheep tag.

00:38:43:22 –> 00:39:01:23
No, I know, but a But a lot of those guys mean I, I was just going off, sorry Josh, but four of those guys that, that are on a really tight budget and we’re preaching, you gotta do as many states as possible build points. What’s the minimum that you would do if you’re on a tight budget and how would you do it?

00:39:02:17 –> 00:39:06:14
Check the December mag. Jason does a breakdown of all the must apply four states. Yeah,

00:39:06:19 –> 00:40:16:29
We did that in December. It is true. And the magazine every month does break it down. I mean just like if you read the December stuff, we didn’t even cover the Colorado on new changes. So I mean, even then is a little bit outdated. The $81 license you gotta buy now they didn’t don’t charge you the $40 point fee for deer and elk in Colorado. So it’s almost a wash this year to apply for deer and elk. ’cause it was last year, you know, ’cause you had to pay the point fee. But I would say, I’ll take a stab at that if you wanna hunt. I mean if you’re gonna do Colorado for sure deer and you’re gonna buy a license, add elk for nine bucks, you know, do deer and elk there. Wyoming, I’d probably say would be the next one. If you have a shorter term plan, if you’re looking at general season elk or general seasoned deer or moderate to draw moderate to easier to draw deer. I’d say those would probably be first couple. And then if you’ve got, if you can part with a couple hundred bucks in Idaho to buy their hunting license and apply there, they don’t have a point system. But if you don’t like that, yeah, you’re, you’re limited to maybe a couple of, we just talked about maybe a Montana General Deer Elk combo, but the trade off of that, it’s a thousand bucks so it’s easy to draw, but it’s a thousand bucks for deer. 1100 bucks for deer elk combo.

00:40:17:02 –> 00:40:36:01
I think it comes into a lot of personal preference. There is so much. I mean variation. Oh my gosh. Like I personally would not go without Arizona. I wouldn’t go without Colorado. I wouldn’t go without Nevada. I wouldn’t go without like Wyoming elk. I think it’s critical. I think for six points, Colton’s up there smoking a three 20 bull or something,

00:40:36:07 –> 00:40:37:19
New Mexico elk. What do we, what

00:40:37:19 –> 00:40:40:24
Can you, how long does it take to get that here in Utah or Nevada? I mean you can’t,

00:40:40:28 –> 00:40:45:06
We just went through it, right? Three of us have killed elk in Utah. Utah. The other two haven’t

00:40:45:16 –> 00:40:48:13
Right? Once and ah, elk, you

00:40:48:13 –> 00:41:06:23
Know, I’m talking like yes, we don’t have connections to private land. I mean you, you can hunt Utah in different places, you know, if you have access to private land and things like that. Or if you want to go hunt the Henry’s or Zion or Range Creek or uns every year on general you can do that. But yeah, but so we’re not talking, we’re talking about good drawbacks.

00:41:06:23 –> 00:41:18:14
Yeah, but if you want to kill it, let’s say that we have some guys that are, I’m deer only, you know, deer, you know, big deer only. I mean we would apply in Arizona even though there’s only a couple units that really produce, you might get an early cave ab hunter or something. But

00:41:18:20 –> 00:41:21:17
Cost of entry is not horrible, horrible in Arizona,

00:41:22:20 –> 00:41:26:25
Colorado, no question. Nevada, no question. You know, probably do Utah. Yeah,

00:41:26:25 –> 00:41:33:17
If you do the general in Utah, it, it’s more appealing. You, you will get something every two to three years out of that. If you, you want to and

00:41:33:17 –> 00:41:36:26
You get to go hunting. Yeah, you get to go hunting and not sacrifice your limited entry points.

00:41:37:03 –> 00:41:43:00
So if you don’t have an interest in that, it’s hard. Utah odds are terrible from a limited entry standpoint and once a lifetime.

00:41:43:11 –> 00:41:46:25
So yeah, there’s just, it just, it’s so varies so much, so much.

00:41:46:25 –> 00:41:59:29
Let’s say you’re young and you’re looking at, you can probably afford to hunt your home state. And then what points would you be building for the future? Let’s say, you know, you’re, you’re gonna over time have more and more funds potentially.

00:41:59:29 –> 00:42:03:00
Well Utah, you can’t afford not to ’cause it’s so cheap. Yeah. So let’s just say, so

00:42:03:03 –> 00:42:03:28
Utah’s gonna be on

00:42:03:28 –> 00:42:12:26
Your a hundred bucks. You can get two, you can get a two for on the Utah license if you watch it, buy the first year late and the second year, spend it early. You don’t have to spend the $65 Nevada

00:42:13:02 –> 00:42:19:22
Two years later. Nevada and Nevada’s a a 365 day license. But it’s one that license per is only good Per application. Per application period. So

00:42:19:23 –> 00:42:20:06
Same with

00:42:20:12 –> 00:42:23:19
Colorado. I do Nevada and I do Colorado and Wyoming

00:42:24:07 –> 00:42:24:10

00:42:24:12 –> 00:42:31:11
Yeah. Wyoming, deer, elk, like Adam said, antelope especially it’s, it’s great for, it’s just easy. Yeah. You draw in two or three years you went out there. Yeah. One

00:42:31:14 –> 00:42:31:24

00:42:31:24 –> 00:42:43:20
Year. Chase, chase bucks with your kids. Yes. Pretty soon you’re finding a general deer area. You’re gonna go back. Absolutely. Pillage the countryside, you know, sweet take, bring half back, half the real estate. What’d you say? You bought a lot over there by just bringing

00:42:45:08 –> 00:42:46:11
Somebody so muddy last year. You’re

00:42:46:11 –> 00:42:48:00
Gonna pay taxes in Wyoming or something. Yeah,

00:42:48:00 –> 00:42:49:01
They’re gonna charge me property

00:42:49:01 –> 00:42:51:08
Taxes. You’re supporting the school system, which they badly need.

00:42:51:27 –> 00:42:55:16
Maybe they, maybe then I could become a resident and I can hunt general. Anyway, so there you go.

00:42:56:02 –> 00:43:12:12
And then same with Arizona. So those would be, so probably Arizona too. Yeah, those would be, you know, and Arizona’s kind of cool, I mean you can, you can do an archery every six years up on the chi a. You can do the early rifles on the OR or you can just flat change you. All of a sudden you want coo deer one year boom. Yeah. 13 points. You get the best cous deer

00:43:12:26 –> 00:43:18:04
Used to late rifle down all the time from from the get go. You’ll probably within five or 10 years you’re gonna draw

00:43:18:18 –> 00:43:20:04
Rifle. Five 10 is the sweet spot. Late

00:43:20:04 –> 00:43:30:28
Rifle. I mean there are some elite ones that are taken 12 to 14. But if you avoid those ones or put one of those as your first choice and something else, just the middle of the road as, as a, an outcome, I mean

00:43:31:14 –> 00:43:45:13
You something. Again, that’s because the first two choices count before you go to the next guy’s. So it’s so integrated and it’s so complex. Every state’s so different. The quality’s so different. The, the amount of points that takes to draw certain good tags, so different. So personal

00:43:45:13 –> 00:43:52:00
Preferences, you almost need to hire a company to do that for you. Just saying cult

00:43:52:00 –> 00:43:53:18
Jeff. So, well,

00:43:53:18 –> 00:44:33:00
Anyway, it also comes down to personal preferences. If, if you’re a diehard mule deer hunter, you know, and you don’t care anything about elk, it changes stuff as well. There’s some states that, that make art. If you’re, if you’re only trophy mul deer hunter and you don’t like elk hair’s on it, it’s a tougher sell. It’s not a tough sell to apply ’cause they got incredible quality. But to spend roughly 200 bucks a year for just to strip the rest of your life, it’s hard to tell you that’s a, a wise investment. If you only want 200 inch mul there and you don’t play for sheep or antelope or elk in Arizona, it’s tougher. Yeah. So there’s, there’s caveats to everything, but there is overall lot of, lot of ramble. Let’s talk a little bit about maybe something upcoming. We can talk about something exciting.

00:44:33:16 –> 00:45:37:00
Let’s talk about the shooting school with m o a. We got an advertiser with us, m moa rifles.com. You can check ’em out. They’re outta Oregon at 5 4 1 5 2 6 18 20. We’re gonna go up there. A couple of guys here from the Epic Outdoors Office. It’s gonna go up there. We’re gonna attend a shooting school June 6th, I think. They’ve got six spots to sail and it’s gonna be incredible. You’re gonna shoot out to a thousand yards. There’s very scientific type type school. You’re gonna learn a lot about shooting. I’ve had a lot of guys go and attend and they feel like they could shoot long range before they went. And when they walk away, they’re just super, super impressed. Those guys really know what they’re doing. They’ve got a new rifle, the ascent rifle, it’s a, it’s under six pounds. It’s a true half minute m o a thousand yard mountain rifle. And so anyway, they’re kind of promoting that. You’ll find that epic outdoors. You can read a little bit more about it, of course you can go to m moa rifles.com. I said that earlier. But it is available in a 6.5 p r c 300 P R C in the 28 Nozz. So anyway, we’re kind of excited to have him on board six, six,

00:45:37:04 –> 00:45:44:16
And seven. So check your calendars if you wanna hang out with us there and call ’em up and, and spend, book your spot.

00:45:44:21 –> 00:45:51:01
Spend a day and a half, I think they pick you up, they feed you lot. It’s real. A real life course

00:45:51:03 –> 00:45:58:20
Out in the hills Angles. Yeah. It’s not just at a gravel bank, you know, county shooting range. It’s out in the hills. Call

00:45:58:23 –> 00:46:09:23
’em up. They may make you a deal. I’m buying a rifle as well as going to the course. Of course you’re not, you’re not obligated to buy a rifle, but anybody and everybody can show up. Well, not really first six guys.

00:46:10:21 –> 00:46:12:19
Alright. Very limited six guys.

00:46:14:15 –> 00:46:34:18
But they, but they also have classes outside of the one that we’re gonna be at. So that’s what that’s worth mentioning. This one’s that doesnt work for you. We, we, we got that, that week reserved or that two day period reserved. So, but they have other courses. If you are inquiring about it, if you always wanted to look at doing one of these western real life situation shooting schools, that’s a great one to consider. Yeah,

00:46:34:25 –> 00:47:11:10
Get on, get on the list. There’s six spots. The epic outdoors crew’s gonna be there and probably bring a few items to give away as well, just for a few guys to show up. So let’s talk hunting story or two. Bronson did a cous deer hunt with his kid. Yeah, what a cool hunt that was. And he luck of the draw going, going back to what we’re talking about with these state systems is half the, half the tags and are drawn by randomly. Anybody can draw ’em. Of course those bonus points help you. They give you more names in the hat there in Arizona, so that’s nice. And then half go on the max point tiers. And Adam, you kid drew randomly. Yeah,

00:47:11:26 –> 00:47:58:02
Yeah, he did. He drew a, a late COOs tag December hunt, which mainly I’d put in for the late Kaibab and Hunts is the first choice hunt over Thanksgiving. And this one, you know, I like to hunt COOs deer. I’ve only done it a couple times, but I love to hunt ’em. And those late hunts are December 15th to 31st. So you kids are out for school, just you apply and forget about it. Home and behold, he drew one of those freaking things with three points. And so we had a great time down there. Went down, didn’t even leave mainly because of our schedule. Obviously Christmas falls within that window and everybody’s gonna have plans to some extent doing that. So we didn’t leave. We left about one or two on Christmas afternoon. Soon as mama kind of said, all right, get outta here. And we, we had the truck loaded and we headed south.

00:47:58:04 –> 00:47:59:22
Get outta here. Santa Claus and

00:48:00:01 –> 00:48:29:10
You. Anyway, we headed south and fortunately had some good guys down there, Justin Earhart and some of the premium hunts crews been down there twiddling their thumbs. They were, they didn’t, weren’t ready to be totally done hunting, but they’d been out on the earlier hunts and seen a few bucks and we’re up and to come out and come with us for a couple days. Only had that last, what, five days or so, six days, whatever it would’ve been of the season. But we, we found some bucks right outta the get-go. Found his buck the first night and killed it the next day. It was, it was awesome. 103 or something like that. I don’t remember. That was

00:48:29:14 –> 00:48:32:24
Looked 110 in the photos. He’s a good looking deer. Good looking

00:48:32:24 –> 00:49:26:24
Deer. Yeah, it was a great buck. I mean it was, it’s a 10 pointer if you wanna call it. You know, you Texans. It was a 10 pointer but you know, cool buck great time. Lacked a little mass and probably a little age to be a real giant. But I mean, geez, first cos deer. It was, it was awesome. And he had a great time. We had a great time. Just goes to show you, you can get lucky. Another thing, I mean we’ve had, you know, look at what, 23 North and south early rifle Jason, let’s, that’s worth mentioning this year. 15 total tags, is that right? Yeah, maybe five in the, is there five and 23 South? I don’t recall five. But there’s only one non-resident. Tag up two. Yep. And Epic Outdoors clients drew both of those. They’re they’re members of ours. And Drew both non-resident tags. Just somebody’s gonna get it. Might as well be you. And they’re gonna have some awesome hunts. 23 South, 23 north early rifle moisture year.

00:49:27:15 –> 00:49:35:16
Good buddy of ours. A good buddy of ours Drew the 23 South archery a while back. Yeah. You know, let’s call it six, seven years. Not

00:49:35:16 –> 00:49:36:06
Long ago. No,

00:49:36:09 –> 00:49:45:24
Not very long ago. Then he kicks back in and he had the loyalty, he he had loyalty point a hundred point and five years. Six, six years. Yeah. So he

00:49:45:27 –> 00:49:47:00
Had eight, he had seven to nine points,

00:49:47:10 –> 00:49:50:08
Whatever. Yes. I think it was eight total. And he picked up the early rifle

00:49:50:14 –> 00:49:51:26
And 2323,

00:49:52:09 –> 00:49:57:07
Can you believe it? On a, on an incredible moisture year. And so, and it goes back to, I mean,

00:49:57:07 –> 00:49:58:24
Having your name in the hat somewhere. Yeah.

00:49:58:24 –> 00:50:00:25
What’s the chances? I mean, come on. I

00:50:00:25 –> 00:50:02:22
Mean, I don’t even put in for those cents ’cause I want

00:50:02:27 –> 00:50:03:17
Better odds.

00:50:03:18 –> 00:50:06:16
A better chance to draw so odds than to be the only guy out of a hat.

00:50:06:19 –> 00:50:23:19
If the all five choices counted in Arizona, it’d be one of your picks. Oh, a prime example of you diluting the odds. Yes. You if, if you had all five choices count, I guess we’re just driving that point. Yeah, we’re just crushing it. But anyway, that’s okay. Yeah, so we’ve had a lot of members draw, you know, and of course we’re out there doing it.

00:50:24:25 –> 00:50:38:01
We both drew sheep tags in Oregon. I’ve, I mean Drew an antelope in Arizona. Jason has too. I mean those are so like, they’re almost like Jason sheep tag last year. I mean those are nothing forced about those. And we’ve

00:50:38:01 –> 00:50:53:19
Talked about having your name in the hat so much, like just have your name out there and then every once in a while you’ll have a year maybe that you don’t expect something but you’re putting in for it and then all of a sudden you’ve got like the Arizona antelope tag and you get to go on a hunt and it’s just something that you added on and

00:50:53:19 –> 00:51:43:24
You, no, I didn’t even add it for seven or eight years after I was doing sheep, deer, and elk. And finally probably Jason just said, why aren’t you doing an antelope? I’m like, ah, I guess I’ll start, throw it in there. 7, 8, 8 years later. Boom, drew and an awesome year in Drew 10. It’s awesome. So yeah, stuff can happen. And whether it be state run draws or some of the state super tags or raffles or you know, even, you know, that’s, that’s frankly why we started some of our epic outdoors membership drive in our hunt giveaways is we’re tag junkies. We obviously, you know, realize a lot of you guys are as well. And so it’s another way to draw a hunt that maybe you couldn’t otherwise go on, or just another name in the hat. And as long as we can pay pay for those hunts, we’ll keep doing them. So we get a lot of positive feedback from doing it. Obviously from the seven or eight people that draw. We get a lot of positive feedback from those

00:51:43:24 –> 00:51:44:00

00:51:44:13 –> 00:52:32:06
In fact, I was just talking to one of our DOL sheep winners that’s going to Alaska this fall yesterday. He’s lining up gear and, and all that. He’s thinking about maybe his wife wants to go now and she’s, she hunts with them, they hunt together a lot already. And so just, you know, changes people’s lives. One or two tags can change your life. And I don’t wanna be as shallow sounding as a, as a hunt for an animal can change your life, but it can change your hunting perspective in life. Like this kid’s now got the sheep bug like crazy and he’s gonna go on his first sheep hunt this year. Never thought, you know, you don’t think about it until something like that hits you. Or you draw some deer tag and you kill a 200 inch mule deer somehow and you’re just like, holy cow, that’s, you know, something I always want to do. And now it just kind of consumes you, takes your life or application strategy in a totally different direction. So keep your name in the hat. Apply, apply, apply.

00:52:33:10 –> 00:52:46:28
I don’t know that that’s necessarily shallow either to say that it can change your life. The older I get, the more I think life is made up of memories and whether it’s with your family or your buddies or things like that, I think, you know, that’s what matters.

00:52:47:08 –> 00:53:36:17
Yeah, I think that’s right. John, John has, Jen and I talk about, we, we all right, we all talk about life like with our wives, like how’s our life going? How’s our kids? Where are we headed in the right direction? Is life all about bills and work like, or what? You know what I mean? And I, and I’ve watched that with you John, as far as you know, Jen and I were talking like, you know, John and Jen seemed to be just all just really focused on the memories with the kids. And that last year I’ve had a kid leave the house and changed my life. Like it’s one of those things I know I am preaching to the choir. There a lot of guys out there that have had kids leave the house and they’re like, ah, finally Jason gets to experience what heartache is. It’s hard to have those kids leave and, and you miss ’em so much and you wish you’d have done more. You never say I’ve had too many memories with my kids.

00:53:36:27 –> 00:53:37:07

00:53:37:26 –> 00:53:57:29
You never say that. And, and so now, you know, having said that, I’m gonna kill something this year. Like last year I had a, last year I had, I had a good year for what I had tag wise. But the kids killed. I mean we filled three freezers. Everybody talks about filling the freezers. We killed, we filled three of them with with, I mean they killed, didn’t

00:53:57:29 –> 00:54:00:02
Even have to drop bombs on moms either to do it.

00:54:00:02 –> 00:54:26:02
There’s all antler game if you want to. That’s one thing I think we should talk about too. If you want to get tags, you can get tags every year. You can get tags every single year. My kids ate tags. There was too many. But again, Adam, Adam hit on it. We’re tag junkies. We get excited about the little small, we’re in here at two in the morning, all of a sudden, pretty soon by 8:00 AM we’re applying for some obscure freaking musk rack somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

00:54:26:11 –> 00:54:28:28
We still haven’t got Jason in the guide drop yet.

00:54:30:05 –> 00:54:33:28
You know what I mean? Increase our odds. Jeez. We still

00:54:33:28 –> 00:54:44:01
Haven’t quite got Jason, we got five days or so in the Colorado deadline. Have not gotten him to file an antelope application to our knowledge. We it’s whoa

00:54:44:25 –> 00:54:45:14
Name in the hat,

00:54:45:27 –> 00:54:46:14
It’s points on,

00:54:46:23 –> 00:54:47:16
Come on. Geez,

00:54:47:16 –> 00:54:50:07
Come on. You think I’m gonna waste 17 points on a, all

00:54:50:07 –> 00:54:53:02
Those stupid nines. Get those rid of those nines, let put in

00:54:53:02 –> 00:55:06:26
Some other numbers wouldn’t points or something. I, there was years I went without applying. I thought I, I wouldn’t spend the gas to get there. And now the older I’m getting, I’m like, you know, and they don’t point average there. If I go in with my kid with zero yes that’s what I’m, I’m both in with zero.

00:55:07:01 –> 00:55:13:12
That’s what I’m banking on is that that one year they allow that and Jason’s like, you wanna go hunting lump? And I’m like, yep, I’ll go with you.

00:55:15:08 –> 00:55:19:07
And I’ll be like, Adam, you already killed an 86, 87 inch or what do you need another one?

00:55:19:07 –> 00:55:23:06
Well just you’ll get first shot. I’ll, I’ll keep the Pepsi on ice and drive.

00:55:24:12 –> 00:55:24:29
Y’all heard

00:55:24:29 –> 00:55:26:06
It? You know what it’s funny though. It’s

00:55:26:06 –> 00:55:26:18
Be plenty eyes

00:55:27:14 –> 00:55:31:00
In this office. Who in here is gonna have a Colorado tag this year?

00:55:31:07 –> 00:55:31:25

00:55:32:06 –> 00:55:32:23
Every one of us.

00:55:32:27 –> 00:56:03:19
Everybody but some of us with points, some of us are gonna draw with zero points ’cause we know we can second choice or do a second choice. Just, just to get an option. Just to get a tag. Sometimes those tags turn into you. You can make something, you gotta make something big ’cause you left with Jack everywhere else and yeah I’m gonna turn that into something. Other times I’ve had to turn ’em back and you can turn, turn back second choice tags and get your money back. Yeah, it doesn’t take your points. So I agree with all we’ll all be there some way, one way, shape or form. We’ll see what the dust settles in June.

00:56:04:21 –> 00:56:06:28
There you go. So did you apply yet Jeff? I haven’t.

00:56:07:03 –> 00:56:11:10
I’m getting ready to. I’m going both. I’m second choice and a third choice but I gotta go second

00:56:11:10 –> 00:56:14:20
Season. I thought earlier you said I don’t know what I’m doing. I

00:56:14:20 –> 00:56:15:28
Don’t know but I’m gonna go in

00:56:16:01 –> 00:56:16:25
But now I know

00:56:17:09 –> 00:56:25:10
I’m gonna go in. I haven’t decided a hundred percent. Yeah I’d love giving because I’ve changed. I’ve changed from different units just in the last four or

00:56:25:10 –> 00:56:28:01
Five hours. Adam, we should charge him for all the consulting we do.

00:56:28:05 –> 00:56:30:06
It’s true. Well it’s true technically

00:56:30:06 –> 00:56:34:17
Gets the magazine in the mail. So technically he’s a member and that’s all included in $9.

00:56:34:19 –> 00:56:37:26
Yes. Yes. Or Jeff’s, it’s clearly for free.

00:56:38:08 –> 00:56:39:20
Some people need to be charged double

00:56:41:25 –> 00:56:42:08
And I

00:56:42:21 –> 00:56:45:02
Double times zero. Two times zero is what?

00:56:46:00 –> 00:56:46:08

00:56:46:13 –> 00:56:48:08
Yep. You’re still gonna get the same amount out of me.

00:56:49:17 –> 00:56:50:14
John, have you applied?

00:56:50:29 –> 00:56:51:12
Not yet.

00:56:52:08 –> 00:56:56:05
John just drew last year, didn’t you? So yeah, drew last at zero points. You,

00:56:56:09 –> 00:57:01:13
I’m trying to figure out what to do because my wife’s going to visit her family in France and if we do

00:57:01:13 –> 00:57:02:29
A perfect time to leave, if we do

00:57:03:00 –> 00:57:17:00
A third season, she’s gonna miss like two days of a third season hunt and possibly fly into Vegas and then jump to Denver and then I’d have to pick her up in Denver. Oh geez. And she, I’d like to get her to kill her first mule deer this year. So

00:57:17:02 –> 00:57:21:06
She probably can’t draw Utah General ’cause that she’s got zero points. Right. So Yeah.

00:57:21:14 –> 00:57:21:29
Is that right?

00:57:22:01 –> 00:57:25:11
So did she take the hunter? She’s gonna be gone. Did she take the Texas hunter ed course or what?

00:57:25:13 –> 00:57:26:07
No, she did Utah.

00:57:26:11 –> 00:57:30:29
Oh did she? Yeah. Texas Hunter Ed Course I here you can do it in less than an hour. That’s what I’ve

00:57:30:29 –> 00:57:33:19
Heard. And kids, your kids can do that too. Don’t,

00:57:33:19 –> 00:57:34:18
Don’t have to do a range or nothing.

00:57:35:23 –> 00:57:36:06

00:57:36:06 –> 00:57:38:11
Tempting. It’s kind of critical piece of info. Yeah.

00:57:39:05 –> 00:57:40:13
Yeah. We should fact check

00:57:40:13 –> 00:57:42:14
That. We might wanna fact check that.

00:57:43:27 –> 00:57:44:13
Don’t wanna be

00:57:45:17 –> 00:57:46:13
Sent Guy a link to that one.

00:57:46:13 –> 00:57:47:13
What are you doing? I

00:57:47:14 –> 00:57:48:29
Dunno if I’m skirting that question.

00:57:49:05 –> 00:57:50:29
You’re skirting that question. Yeah, we noticed.

00:57:51:16 –> 00:58:01:14
Who knows? Not sure yet. Only have one point. So not a lot I can do. If anybody has any good big deer that need to die that you want to give away, why give us a holler.

00:58:04:08 –> 00:58:07:19
I’m sure the phone’s gonna ring off the hook about. I really am. I’m

00:58:07:19 –> 00:58:10:13
Waiting. Jason, I’d like to after help you kill a big deer. I

00:58:10:13 –> 00:58:19:00
After what you pulled out a 22 last year. Yeah. You’re gonna like, people are gonna be scared to even mention a big deer around you. ’cause you’ll just,

00:58:19:00 –> 00:58:52:29
Well most people and we, and anyway, get we everybody, we got our butts kicked. Really? There was, yeah, we did kill a big deer. But it’s one of those things, you know, it was a tough year in Colorado, but you gotta take the good with the bad. Some years are good, some years are bad and, and there back in three seconds, boom. But most people wouldn’t ever go back. Think we misled ’em or, you know, was miserable, this, that and the other. But it was just the year. Year was tough. I do, I am excited about the guide draw results coming out in Nevada on Friday. Yes. Mostly not because I applied the guide draw. I didn’t, but I’m excited for everybody else. It’s fun to have people

00:58:53:02 –> 00:59:24:20
Draw, generate some calls. It’s just like when any state comes out, we love getting calls from happy people and helping ’em make plans. Whether it be, you know, setting ’em up with a outfitter in the case of the guide draw that’s already taken care of for ’em. But in the case of other states, you know, if you have a a inkling, you’re probably gonna do the hunt on your own. We’ve got an epic member experience database. You can call and visit with us about that. Send it out to you so that you can converse with other Epic outdoors members about their experience in the years that they drew the tag. Talk about lodging, talk about access, talk about whatever, you know, whatever they found. But

00:59:24:22 –> 00:59:42:02
So one thing I wanna, let’s give something away. Ooh. But I feel like giving away an epic membership. I’m, I I, there’s so many people that are not members that listen to the podcast. We’ve got, some of you guys are in a big old freaking Mack truck right now. Listen to the podcast and bored outta your mind. But we want you to have a magazine as well.

00:59:42:09 –> 00:59:44:20
Or checking gas meters. I talked to guys doing that too.

00:59:45:23 –> 00:59:46:18
Checking gas meters with

00:59:46:18 –> 00:59:47:18
Headphones on. With

00:59:47:18 –> 00:59:50:05
Headphones on. Yeah. Ignoring the dogs. Barking at

00:59:50:08 –> 00:59:50:12

00:59:50:15 –> 00:59:51:07
Yeah. These guys,

00:59:51:09 –> 00:59:53:10
Some of those dogs you want to hear in coming,

00:59:55:03 –> 01:00:09:02
You might, especially when they’re not supposed to carry guns. It’s kinda like some of those guys in Idaho shooting wolves on state time. Anyway, let’s, let’s do something. What do you think? Yeah, I think camo Epic membership. Membership

01:00:09:02 –> 01:00:09:26
Would be awesome. Membership.

01:00:10:05 –> 01:00:12:22
An Epic membership. Chris,

01:00:12:22 –> 01:00:15:28
What do you think? What do you wanna do for a promo code or something like that? Let’s open

01:00:15:28 –> 01:00:17:14
It. Us know to only non-members

01:00:17:23 –> 01:00:30:11
For you members of Epic Outdoors. We, we know. You’re like, ah, come on, give us, we’re your faithful listeners. We give you guys a lot of gear too. This is just a new, a new something. It’s off the cuff so we’re not trying to hurt you too bad. That’s right. Don’t get

01:00:30:11 –> 01:00:35:26
Mad. Don’t. And if you call and complain, our complaint department is headed up by a guy by the name of Adam Bronson

01:00:37:29 –> 01:00:41:16
Know. And I have a rerouting on my phone that goes to John

01:00:43:22 –> 01:00:46:24
And John listens to half of it calls the rest of the day. So,

01:00:47:01 –> 01:00:50:00
All right, so what’s the, what do we do for promo code? How do we, let’s a code,

01:00:50:00 –> 01:01:10:05
Let’s do a code. Just let’s just do Epic E P I C. So what you do is you go to our website, epic outdoors.com and then there’s a tab called podcast. Click on that and you can enter in the promo code Epic on there and just hit Submit it. Submit. Yep. Just hit submit and you’ll be entered for that free membership to Epic Outdoors. Okay.

01:01:10:25 –> 01:01:13:13
On us. Glad to have you on board.

01:01:13:14 –> 01:01:44:16
I don’t know what else to say. We, we covered a lot of, a lot of a couple things. We got a show, a little love to everybody chest in a phone scope. We’ve videoed a lot of our stuff through our phone scope. Kind of funny about chest in, you know, phone scope’s pretty simple. It’s a piece of plastic that touches to your phone and you get Wazoo video, right? Justin takes all the credit for it, but he ain’t making the phone. You know what I’m saying? Ah, it’s awesome. Look at this. Look how amazing it is. Thanks Samsung. Thanks

01:01:45:01 –> 01:01:45:13

01:01:45:26 –> 01:01:59:24
But anyway, we love Justin. The plastic works, but it works. It works, it works. The plastic works. It’s simple. Anyway, you can go to phone scope.com. Anybody that doesn’t have one should. ’cause if you didn’t video it, it didn’t happen. So anyway, go to phone scope.com sounds

01:01:59:24 –> 01:02:03:02
Like a new slogan. We should trademark that before Justin takes it from us.

01:02:03:17 –> 01:02:14:04
Justin. It’s ours. Okay. We want, we want royalties. Okay. We want royalties. So anyway, have at it. It’s awesome. What else are we gonna talk about? We gotta give a little love to somebody else.

01:02:15:02 –> 01:02:22:08
Yeah. Well thank What about the Wild Sheep Foundation? We’ve talked about sheep tags today. John, this is something for you,

01:02:23:21 –> 01:02:24:00

01:02:24:00 –> 01:02:25:16
We, John’s a less than one. John. John You

01:02:25:16 –> 01:02:25:20
Do there.

01:02:26:02 –> 01:03:25:11
John, the Wild Sheep Foundation. Yes. Jeff, you brought it up. They have a less than one club that you, you can buy tickets, you can enter into Win a Sheep punt there. Or if you attend the convention, you actually have a little bit different advantages, different hunts there. But while Sheep Foundation, they’ve been committed to keeping and putting sheep on the mountain for, you know, decades. And we’re all supporters of that. We’re, we’ll be at the Sheep Show next year. We, we go every single year. But it’s always a tough time the way some of these shows line up literally bam, bam, bam, one after another. And we’re a, we’re an organization and a group here that we want to have, you know, continuity here for our members to be able to call and talk with us. So it’s hard to be gone for five weeks during show season. Work has to go on here. We have magazines to write, we have con phone calls that we have to get done every night before we go home. But we’ll be at the Sheep Show next year and we support the We Sheep Foundation. Less than one club. You can even win if you’re under 30 years old. That’s what I’ve been told.

01:03:26:02 –> 01:03:26:08

01:03:27:06 –> 01:03:28:22
John thinks you shouldn’t be able to apply.

01:03:29:10 –> 01:03:44:06
So anyway, you better do it before you can join in charge. Yeah, you can join, you can check ’em out online, wild ch wild sheep foundation.org and, you know, join the organization. Either an annual member or life member. We’ll all, we’ll all maybe see you in Reno next year as well.

01:03:44:24 –> 01:03:55:14
Awesome. Hey, well Jeff, give us a little, give us a little love out there to Outdoor edge. You’re the one that introduced me to the knife, so it’s only fitting that you do this one for a second.

01:03:55:14 –> 01:04:13:01
Yeah, yeah. So we, I’d heard, and I’ll be honest, I’m gonna, Aaron Bronson actually was using this knife before I was, this is a replaceable blade knife, kinda like others out there other than this one’s that knife blade is

01:04:13:22 –> 01:04:14:19

01:04:14:22 –> 01:04:21:20
It, I’m not gonna say indestructible, but it’s bigger. Stiffer. Stiffer, stiffer. It’s got a, I have not had one break on me

01:04:21:20 –> 01:04:28:01
And it’s got a backing along the top of it. Yes. Just all add support and strength so you can, you actually cut up an elk without breaking four blades.

01:04:28:02 –> 01:04:39:10
You can get a ahold of that knife and, and really use it and, and it doesn’t feel like, it just feels like a real knife as opposed to, you know, maybe something you’d use with two fingers surgically. You know what I mean? Yes.

01:04:39:17 –> 01:04:48:28
If you’re taking an appendix out and it’s very precise that Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yes. I’d also say it’s the best dang kitchen knife I’ve ever had. I use,

01:04:49:04 –> 01:04:49:25
We’re using it here

01:04:49:27 –> 01:04:52:13
In the office, use all the time. It’s just awesome. Nice.

01:04:52:22 –> 01:05:00:26
Of course we have an outdoors logoed. That’s right. Knife that we’re giving away at times with our membership drive, by the way, another membership drive coming. How about that? Yeah,

01:05:00:29 –> 01:05:02:01
We’ll do one here in a

01:05:02:08 –> 01:05:08:00
May 1st. Here we come. Just a little teaser. Teaser with some unbelievable,

01:05:08:00 –> 01:05:09:04
Incredible hunts tags and hunts.

01:05:09:05 –> 01:05:17:23
Oh, they’re, I mean, tags, landowner, deer tags for freaking monsters. I think we, Hey, you can go to Outdoor Edge. Go to outdoor edge.com. One teaser 4 4 7 3 3 4 3.

01:05:18:19 –> 01:05:30:11
Go to the website one more time. Epic outdoors.com. Click on the podcast link, type in the promo code epic. If you’re not a member of our service, you’ll be entered into a free one year membership. So check us out.