EP 120: Optimizing Your Shooting Accuracy with Bob Beck of MOA Rifles. In this episode of The Epic Outdoors Podcast we talk with Bob Beck of MOA rifles. Bob introduces us to MOA and the many different products and businesses that he is affiliated with in the hunting industry. MOA puts on several shooting schools each year and helps hunter to optimize their abilities in shooting. We discuss many of the contributing factors in making a good shot and break down a lot of the gear that Bob feels is essential to effective shooting in the field.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

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You want something that is ridiculously light, but you don’t want to give up any of the accuracy.

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We’re shooting angles, we’re shooting different temperatures. We’re shooting windy days. Your anchor, your breathing, your

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Can’t check

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Anything to do with Western Big Game.

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Adam Bronson coming at you from Southern Utah with another Epic Outdoors podcast. This one was kind of an interesting podcast. We’re excited to do it. We’ve had it teed up for a little while. It’ll be with Bob Beck of m o a Rifles. They’re the newest advertiser there in our publication, the Epic Outdoors Magazine, which comes, comes out once a month, this time of year as, as all the draws and and whatnot are coming out and people are applying and receiving draw results and whatnot. Were for monthly December through June, bi-monthly, the remainder part of the year when we’re out in the field killing stuff. So anyway, speaking of killing stuff, he is, like I said, the owner probably even the president, who knows? We’re gonna find out of M o A rifles. Yeah,

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Let’s have it.

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Hey, you, you ready for this?

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I think I am. Bob,

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I don’t know. By, we’ve got you live here on the podcast. We just wanted to kind of give you a minute to tell us a little bit about your background. We’d introduced you without you knowing it. However, we’re gonna let you kinda, you know, maybe start off with your background, who you are, where you came from, where you’re headed, and then of course your affiliation with M O A and the other bunch of hunting businesses that you, that you do, you’ve got a endless supply of energy for about anything to do with hunting. Big game.

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Yeah. Okay. Well thanks guys. Coming in probably with a mouthful then. My background actually was just construction in the early two thousands. I had a construction company and a development company. And what we used to do is we used to just develop small residential subdivisions, you know, like 25 lots and less. And we would develop the subdivisions and we would build the homes on ’em. And as many may remember, as we started to get into 2006, 2007 and oh eight, that industry got really tough. And when it was good, I was able to make a decent enough living that I was going on. Oh, not a lot, but we’ll just say three or four good quality, you know, guided type hunts every year. Yeah. And amongst some of the do it yourself hunts I was doing. And what I remember being a constant theme back then was just how many nice respectable animals you would see just outta reach.

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And admittedly, I think I was going through a tough time at, at around those years anyway, because, you know, just growing up as a younger guy, you’re transitioning, or at least what I feel a lot of the guys do, is they transition from opportunity type hunts to wanting to try to find trophy animals. So you’re going from just, hey, it’s really important to punch that tag and bring something home for your efforts to measuring inches or, or just wanting to get a more respectable type animal. And kind of getting the idea in your mind that it was okay to eat a tag if that’s what it came down to. Yeah. So with that said, it was amazing that how many animals you’d put in the glass on the other side of the canyon that you were standing on and you just couldn’t shoot that far or you know, you just couldn’t make it happen.

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And so then you start paying attention to how many animals you spot and then you go stalk ’em. And the time that it takes to stock over there, maybe they’re gone, they fed away, or maybe they bed it and you don’t have the wind ride and they jump up and run off. And anyway, at the end of the day, it’s all a failed attempt of some sort. Versus if you could keep everything on your terms and maybe move into the nearest position on the side of the canyon that you were on and just make a, you know, back then it seemed like a long five or 600 yard shot. But now with the equipment we have, you know, that’s kind of a chip shot. Yeah. If we could just get in a position to do something like that, we could harvest a more mature animal.

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And so that’s kind of what, what drove me to go where I, where I was headed. And anyway, long story short, the 2008 real estate debacle, it didn’t necessarily gobble me up, but it really, really put a bad taste in my mouth. I felt like I worked pretty hard for a long period of time and I felt like I was unwinding everything that I had worked for. So I was having a rifle builder from Georgia actually build me some guns back then. And they were considering doing a commercial on outdoor television and they needed a shooter and they had seen some of my trophy picks and whatnot and heard some of the stories of what I was doing with the rifles. And they actually reached out to me and said, Hey, we need a shooter to shoot some targets at a long ways for a cameraman for a commercial spot they were gonna do.

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Would you mind coming out here and being that guy? And I said, sure, no problem. And so I went there and did that. And then when I was there I kind of got hit up by a producer saying, geez, this is the kind of crazy stuff you’re doing and have you ever thought about maybe showing the world what you could do at a more mainstream type level? And I ended up coming home and of course that that seat that he planted just kept kind of growing. And I don’t know, fast forward the clock in short, here you go. Right? You tell the wife when you get home, Hey, we had a great time and by the way, let’s go start a TV show’s

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A new business. Yeah, yeah. She looks,

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Her eyes are out the side of her head. Like, what the heck happened to you when you’ve been gone? Yeah.

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Have you heard have, have you ever heard of the hunting industry, honey? It’s one of the most lucrative industries in the world. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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So where did you get,

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Where were you, where were you based? And, and maybe that’s where you’ve always been. Where’d you grow up? Is that where you still are statewise or tell us a little bit about that and then how you got, you know, before you got to there, and we’ll pick up on that in just a minute. How’d you get into hunting and shooting to begin with? Was it a family thing or what? No,

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That’s actually kind of the ironic part. My dad much prefers fishing. So when I was a kid, we went fishing and I would go to school and hear about all my friends going hunting during the fall. And so before I knew it, I was that pesty kid, kind of trying to invite myself to go hunting with one of my buddy’s families. ’cause we didn’t really hunt. So I picked up an invite here or there and worked a summer job and whatever I had to do. And I, I remember I just bought a 30 out six. It was what I could afford and the best,

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The best long range gun you could find.

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Right. I remember, I, I took a hunters a lot better,

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A lot better than the 3 0 8 I was using, but

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Seven M oh eight or something. Yeah,

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That’s right. That’s right. We, we were stepping it up. Yeah. I just remember, you know, and I wasn’t even an early hunter. I, I don’t believe I even passed my hunter’s safety till I was either 13 going into 14, or I might’ve been the summer of my, when I was 14 years old. And you know, a lot of the kids in Oregon, the hunting age is 12. So a lot of my buddies had already been hunting for a couple years and if they weren’t hunting, they’d already been going with their dads for a couple years, you know, pushing brush or riding around or doing whatever. And I didn’t really know any of that stuff. So I just got through Hunter’s safety and got me a 30 odd six. And I remember wearing denim and going hunting and how funny is that, right? With all the clothing and stuff we had think about wearing denim and a flannel,

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Levi Camo, that’s

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Flannel. Flannel and denims. You know, were the majority of the Boone and Crockett bucks were ever killed,

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You know? That’s right. Rather the olds trick

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Be known, you

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Know, I re Yeah, you just had a few extra rounds rattling in your pocket and you took off wandering aimlessly without any idea why you were doing it, but we had fun. Yeah.

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Well, that’s awesome. So I maybe so tie that in a little bit about you. You started hunting a little bit with family and friends and that, you know, it just, I guess got deep, deep in who you wanted to be and then that kinda, you was self-made, self-taught, you know, along with some of them. But, but how’d you get then to the point, you know, that you were going on some of the guided hunts, you know, business-wise, time-wise, obviously elapsed and things like that?

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Yeah, kind of. I mean, I don’t, I mean, I think you’re making it sound a little better for me than I think it is, but I, I, I’ll be honest, right. I think, aside from your question, and the only thing that I pride myself on at all is just being observant. And I’ll come back to what I mean by that. So getting the rest of that foundation out. I grew up in western Oregon. I grew up in the Willamette Valley. I, I just lived in Eugene. I currently live in Newburgh, which is, you know, just an hour or so north, still in the Willamette Valley, the rifle company, m o a Rifles and Rugged Ridge Outdoor Gear. And the majority of the businesses, the outfitting business and stuff, they all office outta Redmond, Oregon. And I make the trip on a weekly basis, back and forth. Just logistically, I have not moved over to the company yet because I still have, my son is a sophomore in high school, so I just have chosen not to, you know Yeah. Uproot him in the middle of school. So I still make the trip and I don’t mind it. It’s, there’s about an hour, hour and a half going over the Cascade Mountains throughout the past that I don’t have phone reception. And that’s probably some of my best times to Yeah. Reflect on thoughts when my phone isn’t working anyway. So we

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Always find that the employees like it when we’re outta service too, Bob.

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Oh, absolutely.

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Gives it, gives, gives them a little break from the type a aggressive personalities, you know?

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Right. So

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Spend most of the time creating tornadoes. They’re ready to just step

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Outta it. That’s right. That’s right. Well, that’s, that’s why you’re successful. So,

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So shops over in Central Oregon, that was kind of by design. A lot of people ask me, well, why did you put m o a rifles three hours away from where you live? And it’s just simple question, answer. We live in the Willamette Valley and we get a, an immense amount of rain. Yeah. You know, Portland, Seattle, all that area gets an immense amount of rain. And it’s amazing when you go up and over our Cascade Mountain range, how much drier it gets. Yeah. And the shooting schools that we do are such an important part of what we do. Yeah. That when you got guys coming from all around the country, you know, into that early mid spring timeframe when we still get a ton of rain over here and they’re putting Calen, you know, dates on their calendar and taking time off of work, we didn’t wanna disappoint and have the guys come and get rained on all the time. And so over there in central Oregon is so much drier that we can do the testing that we need with the rifles as well as run our shooting schools, fly students in and out. Yeah. And it doesn’t make for rainy, soggy days.

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Well, plus those rainy, those, that rainy country is super thick, you know what I mean? And so you’re old 3 0 8 7 0 8 30. That’s fine. You need an open site rifle in that country. You come over to that dryer stuff and, and from there, clear over to our country over to Colorado, that’s where your guns come into play.

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Right, right. You know, there is some areas that we have where the logging companies will open up some canyons for us and they can work really well, but you bet, man, you go to a local cafe or something midday to get dried off in this country and there’s still guys hunting with lever action 30 thirties. Yeah.

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Well, you know, tell us a little bit about, before we wanna dive in, a couple of things. You’re killing you. You’ve killed, you know, I don’t know how many, 200 inches, but some big deer, you know, I saw one that came out on YouTube, I’ve gotta watch it yet, you know, even in Mexico, some of the stuff I’ve seen you do down there. But before we jump into that, tell us just a little bit about, and we’re going right into the rifles, but there’s so much more that you do, just give us a little brief history on when is Bob Beck gonna quit? What is he gonna, what are, what are your real goals? But, you know, before we jump into the rifles and, and, and of course the, the gear that you’re selling. So tell us a little bit about some of these other ventures that you’re doing real quick.

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So when I wanted to go into the TV side of it, I think it was mainly just inspired by that conversation I’d mentioned earlier. And maybe honestly believing that this guy was telling me like, oh, hey, you kind of got a niche that maybe the world wants to see. I had reached out to some people that I would even consider mentors now back then. And I got an overwhelming amount of the same feedback, which is, you know, hey buddy, you go into any of this kind of videography or television or you know, maybe even some digital content. What are you, what are your goals? And what are you hoping to get out of this? Because if, you know, you think you’re gonna maybe just convince everybody that watching you is cool and fun, that might be great, but that has a shelf life, right? Yeah.

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How entertaining can you be

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For Right. And how long can you, can you be that

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If you keep killing 200 inches, it’s just fine.

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If, if I was Jason, I could do that. Oh,

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No, that’s not true. That’s not true.

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So anyway, you know, you gotta

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Have, yeah, you gotta have something with it. Something with the package, I guess. Yeah. You can’t just go hunt, watch me hunt. You gotta have widget something to Yes. Something to sell, market, whatever. Yeah.

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Correct. And, and back then we would refer to it as, you know, this is 10 years ago, we’d refer to it as, what is your million dollar idea? What are you gonna sell? Yeah.

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George Foreman Grill, guess

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What’s George Foreman

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Yep. So I very much was on that page. It’s like, Hey, you know what, sooner or later I’m gonna get old and fat and gray hair and people aren’t gonna wanna watch me. So I need to figure out what I, what I could add, what real value could I add to the business? Right? So we went down that road and we worked very, very hard to quantify every move we made. You know, we’ve, we’ve been really lucky that a couple of the partners that we started with are still with us. And I think the reason that they are is because when we got going, we, we made very calculated decisions. We said, you know, we’re gonna take, and we’re gonna put some skin in the game on our own. And, and we knew that, you know, in the advertising game, you’ve gotta quantify results. So we needed to start some sort of sales model, and we invested some of our own, you know, our own equity into it, you know, our eBay online store.

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And we’ve created an environment where we don’t compete with any of our partners. We actually try to compliment them and help support their sales. Yeah. So we got that going. And then obviously with the shooting that we were doing, I was helping just kind of collaborate with some designs and some concepts and ideas on how we could become more effective at killing game. Because part of the, you know, the good, the bad, the ugly is the stuff that guys don’t talk about. And that’s, you know, possibly the wounding, you know, that can happen at a hundred yards or it can happen at a thousand yards. It could be bad wind calls, it could be bad equipment, it could be anything. Yeah, yeah. Relative to bad. Right? But all, all industries are gonna have it, and you have to find your way through it. And you have to set yourself up so that you can be as successful as possible.

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So that kinda led into the rifle company itself, because we were working with the bullet company to figure out how to make projectiles that would be more forgiving in the wind. Right. So we were trying to drive heavy high BC bullets at speeds that would allow human error, because let’s be real, when you’re on a big animal, you’re thinking about a lot of other things, you know, and trying to keep your buck fever and everything at base. So sometimes you make bad decisions or you just don’t think about all the variables. So we wanted bullets that would fly true with the most amount of human error. And then you want to be able to ethically kill ’em, right? Yeah. So you’ve gotta have terminal performance at the distances that you’re now willing to shoot.

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So where, so, so where have you arrived? You know, being, being laying that groundwork there, what was needed, the niche needed, you saw, saw a window, I guess, of what you guys could maybe provide. And so what have you, what have you stepped in and done?

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So, m o a rifles, you know, the, a lot of things are happening in the outdoor industry and there’s more qualified, there’s more talent, there’s more hardworking guys there, there’s a lot of stuff that, even from when I started till now, guys are willing to do anything to be in this industry. And there, and there’s a lot of guys that are very good and very talented. So when you look at a company like m o a rifles, you say, oh, okay. It’s another rifle company that makes a sub half minute gun. Yes, indeed. But the reality is there’s hundreds of guys in the country that can do that now. Yeah. What we, what we do, first and foremost, it’s, it’s beyond the sale, right. We are still at a point where if it’s not me, it’s one of my guys that has been trained by me and or you’ll get a call back from me.

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I think that we answer every email, and I think we still answer every single call as ugly as they may be, or as nice as they may be. We make that effort to make sure we talk and touch every single customer. Yeah. The other thing as far as the product line, it goes, ’cause that would be the, you know, the second, the second reason to do business with us, the first one is the customer care and the knowledge that we have. But the second thing is we make a, a particular action that is purpose designed. It’s not a, it’s not an action or a clone per se, even though all long range actions are clones off of a Remington 700. But this action has feature cuts. And if that are specifically designed for really long, heavy bullets. Hmm. Okay. So we have feature cuts in there that make an action function at a longer length so that we can optimize our chamber specs to run heavy high BC bullets at faster than normal velocities so that we can extend the effective range in which a bullet will actually kill game.

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So that’s kind of a little bit of a technical answer, but if anybody doesn’t know why an m o a gun over other guns, when you get into the magnum cartridges that we make these guns flat just perform. And I live in a world where every guy puts his pants on the same way. Right. It just is, that’s the way I believe things happen. And with our shooting schools, we take between 250 and 300 guys a year. If there was other ways to get other results, I would see it on our 2000 yard range. Sure. And when I do see it, you see

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Everything out there. All, all kinds of people are coming out there. Oh.

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And, and I don’t, and I don’t pigeonhole those guys to bring m o a guns. Yeah. The best, the best dude. They can

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Bring their own or whatever. Yeah. Yes. Bring a Walmart gun.

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I would prefer,

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Please bring one, literally, because you’re gonna walk away with an m o a rifle. That’s what you’re saying. Bring bring your gear up, bring bring

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Whatever you think you got.

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Yeah. And, and here’s the thing, just come into class, show us what you got. Give us a clean slate. Yeah. Like, let’s all just check our egos at the door. Give me a clean slate for two days. Yeah. And guess what? If your equipment is awesome, you’ll see it without me having to tell you. Yeah. And if there is somewhere that you can benefit from a, from an advancement or something that we do different, then they will see that for their own eyes. Yeah.

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No question. You know, I’ve got a good client, Reed Miller, and he killed a buck with me. I think it, oh, it was like a 200 and I can’t remember, 14 or 15 inch or, but anyway, he shot, he had an m o a rifle and he says, by far it’s, it’s the best rifle I’ve ever had. And that was kind of my first introduction into, well, what’s an m o a rifle? You know what I mean? And, and of course we’re sitting there long amounts of time together. And so, you know, everything comes out when you’re, when you’re there hunting and, and you got hours and hours and hours every single day. And so anyway, that was, it was awesome. And I think Calvin dealt with him a little bit. And we of course know Calvin and, you know, Calvin’s the same way. He actually set me up with the scope.

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I mean, you guys, you know, you don’t know it Bob, but you sold me scopes and all kinds of different gear. So, anyway, and, and he was always, of course, Calvin’s always good and he’s a wealth of information and knowledge and dealing with your customers and does a great job. But anyway, that was our kind of initial introduction. We had Reed Miller, a client, and then also with Calvin, of course on the outfitting side as well as, you know, he works for you and your company and whatnot and, you know, just a, just a wealth of information. And so yeah, from what you’re saying as far as replying knowledge, you, you’re talking about customer care knowledge and then design of why people would go with you. And, and I can attest to that. One thing I wanted to ask you, why, why everybody knows that the Remington 700 is kind of what everything’s based off of least that design, whatever. Why, why is that? Can you tell me

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Just a simple push feed design that can be true and concentric to bore. Okay. I mean, it’s, it’s just whatever

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All that that means, it sounds like it’s really good.

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You know what it really means, it’s really simple and easy to build an accurate platform on it.

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00:21:41:18 –> 00:21:50:29
Right. It’s one of those tried and true designs that nobody probably ever planned on or knew, but you could go back 20, 30 years on that technology and it works still today.

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Yeah. So the, the longevity of it, they got it right. Whether it be by design, whether it be by accident, I’m not picking on Remington, but you know what I’m saying? Yeah. When they nail it, you don’t know you nail something until three years later it’s like, well that sucked. This is better. Or Man, that’s awesome. Let’s keep going. And hey, 40, 50, 60, 80 years later, we’re still

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Going. Somebody started making tires outta rubber. Now all these, all these other brands are still making mine of rubber. So

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Imagine that.

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So, but you’ve, and I think part of like what you’re saying is, and what you’re alluding to is you were saying, well, I live in a world where everybody puts their pants on the same way. I think your point is, is there’s a lot of ways to to to shoot long range. There’s a lot of guys that are capable, but what you’ve done is taken all the components, put it together, made a solid business that is, you know, functional, customer oriented, the knowledge base is there and you do what you say. And there’s just not a lot of companies out there that can do that. They might be, there might be a guy knowledgeable enough to do it, but he doesn’t have the business savvy to do it to get it done. But it feels like you’ve got all the variables brought together.

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Well, we try, right? I mean, we can always do a better job. Sure. But Sure. But boiling it down to the original question, right? The million dollar idea. What were we gonna do? How are we gonna sustain? We knew that the rifles made a foundation for who we are, what we are and what we do. And then we took the rifles into the accessories, you know, our rugged ridge outdoor gear company that makes the carbon fiber accessories. And then we, and then we went and we got into the hunting. And the reason that we did that was we kind of have evolved over time and seen the feedback, right? So you sell a guy a rifle, he comes to a shooting school, he has a great shooting school, well, what does he want to do next? He wants to go hunting. Right? That’s, that’s the

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Use what he’s built to kill something, use it in the field, use it, not just punch paper.

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Right. Hunting is what brings everybody to the party. That’s right. So, you know, with our being so rooted in the customer service, we felt, well, geez, if we could offer good quality hunts, that probably ought to be on the roster as well. So kind of built what we call the full circle approach to what we do. Yeah.

00:24:06:12 –> 00:24:50:08
Gotcha. So without giving your proprietary secrets away, tell us about, you talked a little bit about some of the, the action stuff that you talked about on your longer, or your magnum calibers a bit ago, but about the parts you use from stock barrel trigger action stuff. And maybe there’s variations, maybe, obviously there probably would be based on the fact that you want this, you know, the ascent rifle that I know that we, we’ve visited with you about this six pounds, you know, true, you know, half m o a thousand yard rifle versus others. I know there’s gonna be some differences, but tell us about the components and parts stock barrel trigger that, that you, that are I guess, maybe more universally made on the different models that you make.

00:24:50:26 –> 00:25:44:20
Sure, sure. So first part is we’re extremely loyal. And so what I mean by that is on an m o a rifle, we really only have three vented parts. So if you figure center mass being the action and all the small parts being an m o a item, you have three vented parts. You have your trigger, which is trigger tech. We have our stocks, which is McMillan stocks, and then we have our barrels, which is benchmark barrels. So no matter what color, shape, design, weight, whatever you want to call it, it’s gonna have those, those brands associated with an m o A rifle. Okay. Okay. Now going through some of the rifles in the action set. So we have a couple unique features. Again, kind of going, like you said, not diving in too far, but we have an evolution action, which is a short and along.

00:25:45:07 –> 00:26:22:05
And then we have an extreme action, which is, we have a ultra long, I would call it, and we have two variants of it. We have a multiple feed, and then we have an actual single shot for, for really big guns. And those are mainly just novelty type guns, not hunting style guns. So the, the ascent rifle is really just spawned off of, you know, you go to trade shows every year, which is an immense amount of feedback. Now, some of it is just feedback that unfortunately we’re never gonna be able to do anything with. Maybe because there’s not componentry to support the ideas.

00:26:23:08 –> 00:26:33:21
You mean a guy that wants, and then there’s other wants. You mean the guy that wants a semi-automatic that shoot 1500 yards halfway away, stuff like that mean it’s a seven pounds. Yeah. Stuff like that. Yeah.

00:26:33:21 –> 00:26:36:04
By, by the way, scoped up seven pounds, scoped

00:26:36:04 –> 00:26:42:21
Up seven pounds, that’s, it’s got detachable lunchbox on the floor plate, something like that. Hey,

00:26:42:29 –> 00:26:44:28
Breaks down into my little day pack. That’s

00:26:44:28 –> 00:26:47:01
Right. Fold it folds on it feel like That’s right.

00:26:47:25 –> 00:26:49:07
I feel like we’re at the same trade show.

00:26:50:29 –> 00:26:52:24
Okay, well just making sure we kind of know

00:26:53:04 –> 00:26:56:25
We want one of those, by the way, we do want one. And you’re, and since you’re the most knowledge

00:26:56:25 –> 00:26:58:24
That keep in r d, keep that in r and d, you’re

00:26:58:24 –> 00:27:04:06
The most knowledgeable and you take care of customers. That’s what we want. We’re, we’re the customer speaking up right here, Bob.

00:27:04:21 –> 00:27:07:06
That’s how a guy goes from here to zero really. Right?

00:27:07:28 –> 00:27:09:14
That’s right. Alright.

00:27:10:03 –> 00:28:12:14
Alright. All right. So anyway, back to the overwhelming feedback, right? It’s, it’s trying to drive the weight down. Everybody wants what they can’t have. And so like we were just making jokes about you want something that is ridiculously light, but you don’t want to give up any of the accuracy. Right. And I don’t know if it’s ignorant, I don’t know if it’s dumb on my part, but I’ve always kind of had this idea in my head that you can only be good at what you’re good at. Right. Meaning that if I’m gonna put my name on anything, it has to have the qualities that warrant putting my name on it and nothing else. Because as soon as you get too far out of the, out of the realm of what you do, right? Yeah. You’re just gonna fail. Yeah. So we’ve, we’ve tried a lot of different things to drive the weight down and what typically happens is two things first will happen before the second is the shooter’s ability to actually shoot the rifle accurately.

00:28:12:23 –> 00:29:01:05
Yeah. There, right. That’s your point of diminishing where you start to lose, it’s like for maybe a bad example, but if you had a trout rod and then a salmon rod or a sturgeon rod and you had a little bit of vibration in your hand, you could see that trout rod tip move really easily. Right? Yeah. Versus if you have this big old heavy fishing rod in the other hand and a little bit of motion, you don’t notice it. Same kind of analogy with shooting, right? If we give you a five pound gun and tell you to shoot a thousand yards, well, shooter form becomes so important. Yeah. That in a hunting scenario where the setup might be completely unorthodox or not very good, you might just might not be able to shoot that far. You know, your accuracy level might just, well we call it, we call it a cone of dispersion. Yeah.

00:29:01:11 –> 00:29:01:17

00:29:01:17 –> 00:29:02:08
What? A cone being

00:29:02:17 –> 00:29:10:21
The cone of dispersion. That sounds like a, something’s like, sounds like something in like a textbook somewhere. That’s a technical term.

00:29:11:14 –> 00:29:13:10
Alright, well just, just think about it like

00:29:13:10 –> 00:29:15:10
This. Dumb it down, dumb it down for us hunters.

00:29:15:24 –> 00:29:20:27
Okay. Alright. All right. So when the projectile leaves the muzzle right, the cone is at the smallest the bullet.

00:29:20:29 –> 00:29:22:05
When the bullet leaves the muzzle,

00:29:22:07 –> 00:29:40:23
The bullet comes the barrel. You guys are killing me. Hey, we’re just, we’re just making this you, you was be about this down. There might be some, you know, six, eight year old kids listening to this thing. We’re talking about cones of dispersal and I’m like, whoa, what are we talking about Adam?

00:29:40:28 –> 00:29:45:24
I I think he, I’m be seeing you in June and so this will all be making sense, right? I

00:29:45:24 –> 00:29:53:02
Don’t, speaking of which, we do have a course June 6th and seven with, you’ll be there guys here at the epic office. And Bob, will you be there? Bob yourself.

00:29:53:20 –> 00:29:56:14
Oh, believe you me buddy. I’m gonna make it a priority.

00:29:56:27 –> 00:30:01:11
Yeah, well don’t pay me back for anything. I’m just, just razzing. So

00:30:02:07 –> 00:30:04:19
Adam’s gonna bring his own homegrown 3 0 8.

00:30:04:26 –> 00:30:05:10
I’m gonna bring,

00:30:05:11 –> 00:30:06:26
Oh here we go. Wood stock

00:30:07:13 –> 00:30:10:24
Fix. Poor Leopold on that thing. See if we can ring, ring still.

00:30:10:25 –> 00:30:15:00
Simmons fixed eight, straight eight. All. Alright, keep going. I’m

00:30:15:11 –> 00:30:17:22
Be working with the best here. I can tell the corner

00:30:17:22 –> 00:30:19:01
Up is dispersal back to the

00:30:19:02 –> 00:30:28:02
Cone dispersion. Okay. Yeah. Bullet leaves the muzzle. Okay. Okay. At the nearest of the muzzle we’ll have the least amount of error. Right. We can all agree on that. Oh

00:30:28:02 –> 00:30:31:17
Right. Yeah. The split second it leaves, it’s yeah. On still on path.

00:30:32:03 –> 00:30:48:03
Right. So as that bullet heads down range, it’s going to be on whatever path of flawed shooter scenario Right. That the shooter sent it on. Okay. Right, right. So as it travels, it’s gonna get further and further out. So, and

00:30:48:03 –> 00:30:48:29
You’re gonna see because of

00:30:49:03 –> 00:30:53:08
Yep. Right. It could be up, down, left and right. So because that could be, it’s

00:30:53:08 –> 00:30:56:25
More magnified the further out you get, it’s more magnified. Yep. Alright.

00:30:57:00 –> 00:31:20:24
Yep. Yep. Okay. We’re following you. So, so when you have a really light rifle, you possibly are gonna have a cone of dispersion. Right. That bullet’s headed down and it’s opening up and opening up. Well once that cone opens up past the vital zone of whatever animal is you’re hunting, like we could pick on a co deer. Right? That’s pretty small. Yeah. So at what range does your cone of dispersion get too large for you to ethically kill the

00:31:20:24 –> 00:31:25:05
Animal? You can’t even be shooting at that thing anymore. Yeah. Past, right. Whatever. 300. Okay. We

00:31:25:05 –> 00:31:37:18
Go to, we go to elk, maybe it gets bigger. Right? Right. Okay. So, so with a really light rifle, you’ve gotta really figure out how to put it in a platform that is suit of, you know, could be done normal

00:31:37:24 –> 00:31:41:15
Capabilities. Yep. Just average capabilities or whatever. Yeah.

00:31:42:02 –> 00:31:50:07
Yeah. And I mean, even if a guy is super talented but he works 80 hours a week and then he just jets out to go hunting for a week, he just might not have had a lot of time to practice.

00:31:50:15 –> 00:31:58:01
So are you saying that if I, even though I buy an m o a rifle doesn’t guarantee me killing game like Bob does in the Wyoming high country.

00:31:58:12 –> 00:32:03:12
That’s another way. I think he’s saying that in another way. Yes. Oh, okay. That’s what I’m hearing. Are we trying to,

00:32:03:15 –> 00:32:05:13
Are we, are we picking up what you’re putting down Bob?

00:32:05:29 –> 00:32:15:01
Absolutely. Because why do you think we do so many shooting schools? It’s, it’s not to convince guys that they’re bad shots, it’s to give them the information and the development

00:32:15:01 –> 00:32:15:19
To make ’em better.

00:32:15:29 –> 00:32:17:03
I thought it was to generate revenue.

00:32:18:16 –> 00:32:21:29
Well that’s nice. Yeah, I do. I do appreciate that.

00:32:22:15 –> 00:32:44:23
Tell us a little bit about your shooting school. I’ve heard awesome things about it. Angles, you’re in real life situations, scenarios, the range finding capabilities. Maybe a little bit of that gear as well. What are you teaching people? I mean, I get, you know, pulling the trigger there. That’s one component and maybe even more complicated than people think. But tell us, tell us what you’re doing there.

00:32:45:04 –> 00:32:53:03
So we have two schools. We have a level one and, and an advanced. Okay. You guys will be coming out to the advanced school. Whoa.

00:32:53:12 –> 00:32:54:23
Who, who signed us up for that?

00:32:55:22 –> 00:32:56:15
You really we’re

00:32:56:15 –> 00:32:58:18
Just, what, what, who?

00:32:59:09 –> 00:33:01:12
Bronson, we know you can shoot, you’re

00:33:01:12 –> 00:33:02:21
Not going. I need to, but I

00:33:02:21 –> 00:33:04:24
What are the differences? Let’s say you, let’s,

00:33:04:24 –> 00:33:06:23
Yeah, here we go. Let’s find out. Alright.

00:33:06:23 –> 00:33:07:08
Alright. So

00:33:07:26 –> 00:33:14:08
Long the advance they lay you in cactus without any, any, you know, things like that. Prone cactus patches.

00:33:14:24 –> 00:33:19:29
Ask Bronson about sitting in cactus and he had to come home and how, how did you get it out? Bronson Carter.

00:33:22:09 –> 00:33:30:05
Now this is the cone of dispersion is really wide right now. Alright. So wide. We’re off track. Get back to the shooting.

00:33:30:22 –> 00:33:30:29

00:33:30:29 –> 00:33:32:09
You’ll have to, you’ll

00:33:32:09 –> 00:33:33:13
Have to another to

00:33:33:13 –> 00:33:36:02
Do with waxing, but anyway. Alright, keep going.

00:33:36:21 –> 00:33:38:15
Alright. Okay.

00:33:38:27 –> 00:33:40:15
Shooting schools. Shooting schools. Here we go.

00:33:41:02 –> 00:34:25:24
Okay. So basically day one we give a half day instruction and we, my, my approach, ’cause I still do the, the classroom portion, you know, I, I try to give that as a value add for whatever it’s worth to our customers, right? Sure. Right. So I try to share that experience firsthand. I try to, I don’t wanna necessarily wanna say dumb down, but for lack of no one else to say, we try to dumb it down to the root, right? We could engineer and talk over people’s heads for hours, but the bottom line is people just wanna know why, why if I do this, does this happen? So I dumb everything down to the simple root and I build a foundation throughout my class of consistency because consistency is everything.

00:34:25:27 –> 00:34:39:14
Yep. So your breathing, your, your anchor, your breathing, your can’t check your squeeze, everything, all that type of stuff. You’re talking kinda like basketball guy shooting a free throw. I mean the same Yep. You’re the same principles, right?

00:34:39:17 –> 00:34:52:04
Yep. We break them down, we get ’em to understand the importance of consistency and then we build a protocol of shooting. Yeah. Call it the protocol that is the steps in which you take every time you pull the trigger.

00:34:52:07 –> 00:35:04:05
It’s kinda like that. I remember way back when, remember Dwight shoe on his bow limb? Yeah. He had that little sticker that he glued on his limb when he drew back and it say, it said stay calm, pick a spot, remember that

00:35:04:13 –> 00:35:04:23
Whatever. Just,

00:35:04:23 –> 00:35:05:17
Just a, the

00:35:05:17 –> 00:35:06:22
Consistency factor.

00:35:06:25 –> 00:35:16:10
Just don’t, don’t go from draw to release without filling in the gaps properly. The same every time and same shooting. That’s what you’re talking about the consistency.

00:35:16:27 –> 00:35:37:29
Yep. We build a protocol of steps so that every single thing is accounted for. And I like to think that by doing that, or at least if we make the effort to do that, it also can calm the nerves. Especially when shooting that, you know, big game. Yeah. And that way when you send a bullet out of the muzzle, you know, it has the highest success of actually reaching and killing the target effectively. Yeah.

00:35:38:07 –> 00:35:38:13

00:35:38:13 –> 00:35:47:17
Many, I mean roughly what, how many main protocols do you feel there is? I mean there’s, you could talk about 20 of it, 10 step, you could talk about one of

00:35:47:17 –> 00:35:50:13
Them, it start to finish. Is it a 10 step process getting

00:35:50:15 –> 00:35:55:26
Well, depending on how I explain it, it, it, it very much is approximately 10 steps.

00:35:56:02 –> 00:36:09:05
Okay. Because sometimes, I mean, I want to kill stuff fast. Like at times I want to be, you know what I mean? I wanna, I want to get out, lay down level the rifle and squeeze the trigger or whatever, whatever that step is. I don’t Yeah, if you could, I don’t wanna shorten, I don

00:36:09:14 –> 00:36:16:08
To five, which five could you shorten and have the, the least amount of risk maybe

00:36:16:08 –> 00:36:16:24
Like I’ve watched

00:36:16:24 –> 00:36:17:19
You that you’re gonna go

00:36:17:26 –> 00:36:27:10
Like on that big old deer you killed in Wyoming. You’re not, you’re not thinking about that for 14 minutes, Bob. You’re, you know what I mean? You’re gonna make that happen before he goes over the ridge or whatever.

00:36:28:00 –> 00:36:44:20
Yeah. You know, it’s like anything guys, you know, when you first learn it, it’s kind of a drawn out process where you’re always going back and reminding yourself of steps that you missed. Yeah. And then you, and then you fix ’em and do it. Yeah. But it’s no different than you walking out in the parking lot opening your door, getting your truck starting and putting the seatbelt in and pulling it to drive and driving off.

00:36:44:20 –> 00:37:03:08
So, so after a while of the 10 main ones, you’re, you’re doing five or six of them a hundred percent naturally that, that’s just become how you, how you shoulder the rifle, you know, look through the scope, bed, your elbow, blah, blah, blah. And yes. Then, then it’s the trigger in breathing the last two things that you really gotta think about or something like that.

00:37:03:19 –> 00:37:10:14
Correct. It’s that muscle memory to the whole thing’s gonna knock out half that roster really bad. Gotcha. They’ll come naturally.

00:37:10:23 –> 00:37:26:02
So what are you doing? I mean, what do you, what’s the, what’s the tried and true gear? Is it a six hour range finder? Is it a night force? What, what is the gear you like to promote, use, sell, have your customers use? What makes you look good?

00:37:27:16 –> 00:37:31:07
I don’t know that anything like, makes me look good, but what I do is, yeah,

00:37:31:07 –> 00:37:32:10
You set him up for that.

00:37:33:17 –> 00:37:35:10
We’re not getting any younger bud. No,

00:37:35:20 –> 00:37:36:14
I know, I

00:37:36:14 –> 00:38:30:24
Know. So obviously we’re trying to drive m o a rifles down to lighter weights. Right. Hence the ascent rifle. So you’re gonna see that in my hand here pretty quick. So touching on your question here for the ascent rifle, putting a bow on that, we have two configurations that that rifle’s gonna be built in, in the six point fives. We are able to run the contour down and the stock down to get that thing around five pounds and 12 ounces in the 28 Naz and the 30 cow guns. They’re gonna be just right at six to six and a quarter. ’cause we’ve got a, we’ve got a beef enough the barrel a little bit, and we’ve gotta put a little bit more stock platform to it so a guy can effectively shoot that gun because at the end of the day, you see a lot of these ultralight guns, they get promoted as six or 800 yard guns. And maybe it’s just me being stubborn, four digits excites me. And it doesn’t mean that I gotta kill game at four digits. It just means that I like to carry a gun that I know will do it if I want it. Or even just knowing that if I can shoot four digits, that 600 yard shot is really, really easy in comparison.

00:38:31:02 –> 00:38:42:22
Well, and that’s what we find. We, we, when we’re, it’s not that we wanna shoot game at a thousand yards. No, but if you can, these, these five and 600 yard shots, they’re, they’re child’s play. Yeah. It’s, it’s nuts. Right? That’s what these

00:38:42:22 –> 00:39:10:20
Yeah. The confidence factor is through the roof. Yeah. So on top of a rifle like that, we’re working with night force, we always have, they, they are known to have obviously a very high quality scope. They’ve made a huge presence in the long range market because of how repeatable and reliable they are. Yeah. But literally here in just the next little short while, I mean like a month or two, we’re gonna have a new scope line coming from them that’s gonna reduce the weight of their scopes. Approximately 10 to 12 ounces come on

00:39:10:25 –> 00:39:11:07

00:39:11:12 –> 00:39:13:13
Some offerings. No, I’m, I’m not joking. So

00:39:13:15 –> 00:39:16:28
How’s that gonna compare to what I’ve got? Wow. That’s gonna be unbelievable.

00:39:17:14 –> 00:39:21:25
Yeah. I mean you’re talking 30 ounce, 31 ounce down to 22 ounce we’re

00:39:21:25 –> 00:39:34:16
Talking, so you’re, you’re they’re, they’re competitive with like that Swarovski, I’ve got one topped with the Swarovski and I mean, they’re competing with the lightest one of the light scopes, you know what I mean? That’s gonna be unbelievable. Well, so 22 ounces is like

00:39:34:16 –> 00:40:18:24
The thing about knife force, and I’ll plug them because, you know, they, they’ve supported me well is they never pride themselves on being the first to market. They pride themselves on being the right one to market, meaning they don’t, they’re not gonna have recalls and Yeah. Warranty issues and everything else. So they’re, they’re never the first to market, but they watch and they see what everybody wants and then they find a way to put the night force on it so that it is stronger and better than everything else. So yeah, you’re talking 22 ounce night force with eight times magnification factors. So I mean Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s gonna be pretty big. So we’re looking to go into that product line range finders these days. We’ve, we’ve used a handful over the years, but we have kind of a two-part process that we do. The one mainstay for sure has been the kestrel units for us.

00:40:18:24 –> 00:41:00:11
They make an elite 5,700 is a Bluetooth model if you into that kind of thing. But what it does that a lot of guys don’t realize it does is it does a compass calibrate in a target engagement mode. So literally you can hold the unit at your target, hit a lock button and it’ll give your you the exact degrees to your target. You know, so if you have 360 degrees and you pointed at Target and it says that deer is that, you know, 189 degrees from North or whatever, then you can go in and read the wind and let’s say the wind is coming from, you know, two degrees and then it has a wind value. It’ll tell you the m o A regarding based off your ballistic interface. So, hey, I shoot a 28 miles or it’s going this fast, whatever. We’re at this much very much pressure.

00:41:00:28 –> 00:41:59:28
My target is at 180 9, my wind’s coming from two and it’s seven miles an hour. So it tells you exactly how many m o a to hold in the wind. So that’s a mainstay in my pack. And then again, kinda like the world asking for super light rifles, we’ve now got the fully ballistic integrated binoculars, which is what everybody’s been asking for, you know, the percent, gosh, when are you gonna get all that ballistic software in a bin? So I have one unit while we’re working with the guys at Zes, they have the RF victory that has a ballistic interface in it now. So wow. We can drop our favorite m o a rifles onto their user app and you put in all the, you know, details related to that ballistic profile and then you, it’s a Bluetooth bin, so you just click it on and sync it up and then send your info over there and when you got it all in there, you can put your hold over in M O A, you can put your holdover in yardage, whatever you like, and then bingo hit send, then turn your app off and put your baro to work.

00:41:59:28 –> 00:42:00:05
So that’s,

00:42:00:05 –> 00:42:15:16
That’s very similar to this. Like this six hour 2,400, I put all my stuff in there, Bluetooth off my phone, I hit it and it just tells me what to dial and shoot, you know, calculates angle, calculates pressure. Yep. Temperature, all that. It’s the same thing, but now we’re integrated into a binocular.

00:42:15:29 –> 00:42:24:10
Yeah, it’s right in my view. Wow. I’m looking at it when I click the button to get the range, I just watch for an extra couple tenths of a second and it gives me that right in the to

00:42:24:10 –> 00:42:45:22
Dial. You just dial it and it’ll be as accurate. This, I’m not telling, this isn’t a six hour podcast, but I did range through my front windshield in my truck, which was, it was like one of the most impressive things I’ve seen for a while. But anyway, I’m sure this Zeiss is gonna be state-of-the-art. Have you, have you looked through ’em? Are you starting to get any of their products?

00:42:46:12 –> 00:43:40:19
Yeah, so what I did was, I had the first ones, as you probably already know, you’re teasing me a little bit. I killed a 2 0 7 buck in January down there in Mexico. And yeah, that was one of the first hunts that I had put that Bino set up to work. What I did was I was using the G seven BR 2,500 range finder that would’ve been using for the last year. Well I took ’em both down there with me and I ran ’em side by side and I went to a area that I could see a, you know, big boulder fields and cliffs or I could get multiple ranges. So I opened up the app, dropped all my information in for the buy now, and then I ran ’em side by side off of a bunch of targets and I just moved my numbers around until they were a match. Yeah. And once I had ’em going, I have literally shot, I don’t know, we probably shot six animals or so with it since I’ve never touched my other rangefinder once I did that. Wow. Validation between ’em, I have never looked back.

00:43:41:02 –> 00:44:29:08
What I, what I really like about what you’re saying is with these shooting schools, okay, there’s one thing to learn how to shoot a guy needs to learn the fundamentals of actual, the physical aspects of taking the shot. But then you’re gonna be able to teach guys how to use the gear, what gear to use. There is so many unknowns, people aren’t gonna go buy all this gear as you know, it’s not not the cheapest thing in the world to buy some of this gear. Yeah. But they can come to you. Bob, tell me what you’re finding in this range finder or that range finder and what’s working when it, you know, when I’m going into the heat of battle and, and trying to get a deer on the ground within 25 seconds or 15 seconds, what’s the best to use? So I think with this shooting school, a, we’re out in the field, we’re shooting angles, we’re shooting different temperatures, we’re shooting windy days, we’re shooting in weird, weird positions and whatnot.

00:44:29:10 –> 00:45:03:24
And then Bob’s gonna also teach me how to use gear and what gear I might want to, and they get to be able to test that before they actually buy it. That’s the key. Not just the rifle, but I mean the rangefinders as important as the rifle, the optics are as important as the rifle. That’s what I’m, I guess I’m getting at is this full, bringing everything together in the shooting school in two days I get to learn everything. I get to learn the fundamentals, I get to learn about the gear, I get to learn about the rifle, I get to see it perform and then I get to watch this bullet, hit this target. And I think that’s gonna be a life changing experience for most guys.

00:45:04:22 –> 00:45:16:11
It can be for sure. I mean you, you hit it right on the head, right? I mean the best way to believe in something is to touch it, feel it, smell it, and taste it. So, and you don’t even need me to load you up with opinions. Just

00:45:16:11 –> 00:45:17:08
Come, just come it part

00:45:17:08 –> 00:46:21:25
Of it. Yeah. Yeah. And you’ll see what works with your own eyes and then you’ll have a couple different options to go through at what might suit your style the best. Right. The shooting schools are good too, because there’s a level one and level two like we talked, so the level one is set up as a complete instructional approach, right. We have, we have a huge dynamic canyon that’s north and south and east and west, so it’s a true actual angular, you know, set up. But to the, to the west we got 400 through 700 to the east, we got 800 through 1200. And then to the north we’ve got 14, 16, 18, and 2000. So that is a, and and we shoot from one location, we have three different decks, but we shoot all in that same direction. So it’s pretty instructional. Whereas the level two or the advanced school, we do that at the sheet mountain ranch up in northeast corner of Oregon. And that one is a hundred percent hunting scenario based. So those targets are back in trees in the shade. There’s plates and deer beds in the cliffs, you know, it’s uphill downhill, crazy canyon shop

00:46:21:29 –> 00:46:22:23
Real stuff. Yeah,

00:46:22:29 –> 00:46:30:27
Yeah. It’s hunting scenario based. So it’s that next level of advancement once a guy goes through the other class and figures out, okay, this is really what I’m, here’s

00:46:30:27 –> 00:46:58:04
The base. Yeah, yeah. This here, heres shooting paper to square target and perfectly flat and all that. Yeah. Yep. What about I, I mean you gotta get it all the time, but from a a preference you’ve gotta have a few and it may be very slightly based on your model. And then when it comes to that, do you, do you use, develop all the rounds, sell them the ammo for each specific gun that you make for that client if they decide to buy it? Good question. Or how does that all work?

00:46:58:21 –> 00:47:26:21
Good questions. Okay. So a lot of the guns will shoot factory ammo and they’ll meet that half minute or less expectation. But if a guy wants kind of a true custom tailored setup, here’s how we go about it. So every single gun we build after it, QCs has got a meet requirement at 100 and 800 yards. I’ve been asked several times, well why doesn’t it meet requirement in a thousand? And from a production standpoint, if we had to qualify every gun at a thousand, that would put us outta shooting every single windy day.

00:47:26:23 –> 00:47:27:28
Right? Yeah. Yep.

00:47:28:01 –> 00:48:16:04
So that’s, that’s a bit tough to hold timelines on customer delivery. So we quantify every gun at 108 hundred yards. And how we do it is basically the sales order. You know, it reflects all of the items that the customer has ordered. It’ll have set gun model cartridge, all that kind of stuff, all the way down to color finishes. And then you’ll have your optics choice ammo, that kind of stuff. So once that rifle is at a hundred yards getting the optic on paper, we’ll do some single shot cleans, get that barrel broken. And then if it’s proving that it’s gonna do the accuracy expectation, then we’ll shoot a group of 800, it’s gonna produce four inch or better 800 from that point. If a guy’s going full out, what we’ll do is we’ll do the load dev, whether that’s a house load or a, you know, some sort of full development like the California guys for example, right?

00:48:16:04 –> 00:48:50:06
They’re going away from lead down there. So we’re always making loads for those guys. What we’ll do is any load dev work that we have associated with a rifle, we have a digital filing process. So every serial numbered gun we make, you could be the second or third owner of that gun. Or you could do ammo on your own and call us five years later and say, you know what, I’m a hand loader but I just don’t have any time. I got a hunt coming up, but I’ve got M O A I, serial number, da da da. We can go back on that digital file and tell you exactly, either tell you what you need to do or we can manufacture that ammo and just put it right on your doorstep.

00:48:50:09 –> 00:49:31:01
Gotcha. That’s so either way. Yeah, either way. It sounds like, ’cause you know, everybody’s a little bit different. Some people like the flexibility of just, you know, ordering it online and having their ammo and, and you know, because even though they’ve got a gun capable of doing more than maybe either they can do or the factory ammo can totally do for ’em with within the constraints of either the specific count they’re going on or whatever they’re hunting that time, you know that that’s fine. It’s good enough for me, it’s gonna work. And then the other guys we all know are a little bit more precise. Maybe we’re Bob Beck oriented to where, you know, if there’s ground to be made up somehow by Dang, I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna get it better.

00:49:31:10 –> 00:50:15:28
I think it comes back to just like we were just discussing with some of these products, right? We all know this stuff’s expensive. Let’s be real. Yeah. I’m in the industry. You’re in the industry. We even think it’s expensive, right? Yeah, yeah. But the point of the matter is, there’s a, there’s a niche of guys out there that want and expect this kind of quality and level of expertise, so to speak, right? So we’re, we live in a business every single day, Monday through Friday. And beyond that, we expect that our customers know that they want that. So just call us, just call us, talk to us, tell us what you need. Tell us what’s gonna make you happy, and we’re gonna do that. And if we miss it or mess up, guess what? We’re gonna do it again until we get it exactly right. ’cause that’s just the world we live in right now.

00:50:16:14 –> 00:50:46:04
Well, what I think is, what I think is great too, is guys, you’re, you’re inviting people to come out to your school no matter what, with a gun, without a gun. Not sure what, but they’re gonna walk away. If they don’t, if they don’t buy a gun from you, they’re gonna walk away. That school being worth the money, no matter if they buy a gun or not. And then, and, but they also get to see your guns. They get to see everything in action. They’re gonna learn a ton. And, and, and so I guess I’m just throwing it out there. Guys can show up and you’re gonna bring guns from me to shoot, right? Yep.

00:50:46:08 –> 00:50:46:23
That’s right.

00:50:47:01 –> 00:51:03:01
And, and I’m gonna use some gear that’s not mine and I’m gonna learn a ton just from that aspect, regardless of anything else that’s going on. Plus I get to do it with six or eight dudes that are all like-minded and, and just sounds like a, sounds like it’s gonna be awesome, quite frankly. So

00:51:04:01 –> 00:51:04:23
It should be,

00:51:07:15 –> 00:51:34:07
Come on. Tell me a little bit about the Bipods. That’s a huge, you know, there’s a lot of them out there to, to to, yeah. To sift through. I I, once in a while, I’m still using Adam laughs at me, but the old Harris, that’s all, you know, got springs on it and whatnot. But I mean, you know, it kills stuff. Kill, kill, kills, kills a lot of game for me. But anyway, tell me a little bit about the Bipods. I know you’ve got a lot newer age equipment that you’re selling and whatnot.

00:51:34:15 –> 00:52:46:26
Sure. So, you know, I think you kind of hit it on the head, right? So the, when we first got Rugged Ridge up and going, it’s, the company name is called Rugged Ridge Outdoor Gear. We’ve branded the pod as the extreme pod, just ’cause everybody kind of knows extreme hour limits. But anyway, long story short, what we were looking for is we were looking for a pod that had, is close to an infinite range of motion as we can make. Now, admittedly, when you get into releasing the new company and you figure out how competitive the market is and all these other things, you, the guy can get caught up in trying to sell his product on some merits that might be technically related. Like, let me give you an example just ’cause you mentioned it. So your Harris has spring loaded, deploy front and back legs. Well, we all know Harris is the most tried and true bipod ever to be on planet Earth. So it’s hard to bash it. But with that comes what they call leg loading, right? So as the recoil from the rifle pushes the rifle back, those legs will wanna go to the folded up position. And you can see some high bullet trends if you don’t lean your shoulder and put appropriate body pressure into the bipod. Right? Okay, well

00:52:46:27 –> 00:52:56:09
That’s just a simple way of, well, I believe you, I believe you. I don’t know what you just said, but I believe you. Well there was a term in there and it was early in that

00:52:56:22 –> 00:52:57:14
I think it had something there.

00:52:57:14 –> 00:53:04:17
It something about, we started off with deploying the legs and I’m like, oh, shiz, I thought, I thought, what? Where’s Trump sending troops now?

00:53:05:20 –> 00:53:31:20
I think what it really had to do with selling ice to, or something like this, I dunno. Anyway, so we, we, we found ourselves trying to find the technical benefits of the bipod, but here’s dumbing it down. ’cause that’s what I owe you guys. Here’s what we enjoy with a rugged ridge bipod, because I’m a hunter, right? I’m just a hunter that I, I don’t claim to be a target shooter. I don’t compete. I don’t, guys, I’m just a hunter. I only do this stuff to try to be as

00:53:32:03 –> 00:53:47:20
Effective as I can possibly be. But you know, you’re putting out TV shows and whatnot. You’re paid to kill stuff and you’ve gotta be effective at it. And I’ve been in that. I’ve been in those shoes. And so I think it’s important to have gear that works. And the dummy down version is that you’ve gotta use stuff that works. Yep.

00:53:48:04 –> 00:54:17:05
So the Rugged Ridge bipod does this, you know how like bipods have clicks and or rings and their legs heights, right? And you might find one click’s too high, one click’s too low, or you have a head that won’t, can’t quite far enough, or it won’t rotate. Yeah. Maybe that’s something like that. Right? And you’re wedged into some rock, like take your desert sheet pipe. I don’t know. Yeah. It looks like you guys were climbing all over crazy stuff and who knows where and how you made a shot because you were probably way unorthodox laying. Well that’s, that’s

00:54:17:05 –> 00:54:38:12
Why, that’s why I shot him when I did it. We were actually gonna hold off. But I mean this, this ram was, I mean, covering ground fast and I’m like, I’m, there’s all this Cactus Adam’s favorite thing. We had all this cactus around us and I’m like, well I’m gonna have to reset up in and around cactus and or I can just kill him right now. Make it easy. And so anyway, luckily

00:54:38:16 –> 00:54:41:24
Ki Chris had the film run. ’cause it, it happened fast. It

00:54:41:24 –> 00:54:57:02
Surprised Adam, I blew his ears out accidentally. I mean, anyway, just because I’m, I’m like, well that’s the target animal and I’m gonna have to get up and reposition, reconfigure going back to our shots count doing the whole checklist. You know what I mean? And so anyway, keep going

00:54:57:22 –> 00:55:35:14
With, with the pod, with the pod that we make it Ha It’s all friction control. So the legs don’t have rings or clicks. They’re car real carbon, nothing’s wrapped. It’s all billet or carbon. Okay. Okay. So the carbon fiber leg just slides in a feral. And so you can put it anywhere you want. If you literally reached up, loosened the feral and you only wanted a 32nd of an inch to make your leg just right, you could do that. You could get a 32nd of an inch and you just tighten the friction knob back down. Yeah. With the head. It’s just on a control lever. So you just reduce pressure and then the ball, it’s, it’s kind of almost for a way to explain, it’s like a pistol grip for your tripod head. Yeah. For your spotting scope. Just to

00:55:35:14 –> 00:55:35:19

00:55:35:27 –> 00:56:09:14
Twist. Yeah. So wherever you want it, if you wanna spin it or you want to, can it just take friction off, spin it, cant it do whatever you need to do to get your level cutting it down when you guys, yeah. And then you just apply resistance to it and it will hold for a hunting shot. So between infinite, you know, leg position and the ability to rotate that whole head, that bipod head, we’ve just found that, how many times are you in the most screwy setups that you just wanna kill that animal right now?

00:56:10:08 –> 00:56:27:05
Well, and then there are a lot lighter. I mean that’s the one, the biggest downside with the Harris. They’re, they’re heavy. I mean we, we all, you know, want a lighter pack and you, like you said earlier, the older you get, I like my pack lighter ’cause it’s harder to hike. Well let’s, and I want a lighter pack. Well let’s go one.

00:56:27:14 –> 00:56:41:04
So let’s go on the weight thing for a second. So the complimentary product to our pod is what we call our E R S S. It’s an extreme rear shooting support. Yeah. That particular piece is only four ounces.

00:56:41:23 –> 00:56:42:00

00:56:42:14 –> 00:56:48:25
And it replaces, I mean probably less and less now, but I remember a lot of days where guys were carrying a sandbag in their pocket.

00:56:48:25 –> 00:56:50:06
Oh geez. Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:51:11 –> 00:57:28:29
This is a little deal that’s six inches tall, approximately. It goes right on your belt. Or you can put it on one of your compression straps in your pack. You know, you just slide it on there, forget about it. And it has four, four positions. It’s push button, just kinda like the legs on our bipod. So it kind of holds that genre and it’s got a, a array of positions and what you do is you just hit the button, spread the rear rest apart to what you think is gonna get you close to the height that you need in the back. And then, you know, the bottom of your rifle stock is at an angle towards the butt. You just slide that thing back and forth and then your muzzle goes up or down accordingly. Once you get to the right spot, you just support it with your left hand like you would a bag and, and shoot. But the cool thing is it’s four ounces.

00:57:29:14 –> 00:57:31:18
Wow. You can actually afford to carry it. Yep.

00:57:32:06 –> 00:57:35:18
Yeah. The pod and the rear rest is about one pound between both of them. Yeah.

00:57:36:21 –> 00:57:43:07
Well what now that we’re all geared up, we’re ready to go. What’s your favorite species to hunt? What do you, I mean,

00:57:45:12 –> 00:57:46:11
What do you have on the list?

00:57:46:19 –> 00:57:49:07
The sounds of it you don’t want on the list. Yeah, you’d still, you’re

00:57:49:11 –> 00:57:51:08
To do list, bucket list, checkoff list.

00:57:51:14 –> 00:58:51:14
So guys, so let, let’s be honest, this is the part where people are either love me or hate me, but, oh Jason, you can relate to this Adam, you probably can too. The being in the TV game, you have to produce enough episodes to keep the TV chalked up full year. And the reality and the truth that nobody wants to say is you probably do a few humps that you don’t necessarily have interest in doing. Right. So with that said, I’ve, I’ve been fortunate enough that guys have supported our business in the industry and so I like to give back where I can. So I’ve been trying to, you know, afford a few more premium hunts in the game and keep me more local, close to home. Yeah. And pursuing the game that I like. So to answer your question at the moment, only because I absolutely hate defeat elk is still on my roster as number one. Now, if we would’ve wound the clock back five or six years ago, absolutely. Hands down it was mule deer. Yeah. Then I got fortunate

00:58:51:14 –> 00:58:58:23
Enough to what happened. Yeah. What happened? Well I drew, you alluded to defeat Drew, so you alluded to that. So you got redemption. Okay. Here it’s, yeah. So,

00:58:59:09 –> 00:59:10:29
You know, a decade ago, up to five or six years ago, I’ve been fortunate enough to kill a couple mule deer over 200. I have never killed a super giant. I’ve just gotten lucky to break the 200 number a few times. It’s a

00:59:10:29 –> 00:59:11:11
Pretty big deal,

00:59:12:26 –> 00:59:36:11
Admittedly. Yes. I mean, holy cow. 200 inch steers Johnny. Right? So I have killed six or seven of them between the 202 10 mark. And because of that, so park that thought for a second. Go back to 2015 in Oregon, my home state, which always gives a guy a little extra excitement, right. When you got some cool tag in Oregon or your home state and you want to go, right. Okay. If you

00:59:36:11 –> 00:59:38:01
Kill a big deer in Oregon, you’ve done something.

00:59:39:03 –> 00:59:49:09
Right. Well, okay. So in 2015 I drew a elk tag for one of the units in the big three. We call it the big three. Right? It’s that Mount Emily Walla Walla. Aha, sure.

00:59:50:08 –> 01:00:43:22
And I feel like I underperformed, I feel like I misjudged, I just underperformed. And I didn’t really, to be honest with you, I under gauged what organ could possibly produce for an elk. Sure. I say that lightly. ’cause I’ve done the hunt a few times now. And don’t get me wrong, it’s really hard to kill a big bull here. But we have a good amount of bulls in there. I think I underperformed. So I’ve went ahead and, and tried to get a tag and it would allow me to go hunt that area a couple times. And I just have a number in my head, not to sound ignorant or spoiled or anything like that, but I have a number of sizable bull I’ve been hunting for in there and I haven’t achieved it yet. That’s the defeat thing I’m talking about. Yeah. I’ve killed some really nice bulls in there. I’ve had some great hunts with great people and all of the fundamental things that make hunts great, but just that burning inside of you, that goal that you set for yourself, I just haven’t quite got there.

01:00:43:26 –> 01:00:47:16
Gotcha. So that’s so pretty. That’s, that’s on the front burner.

01:00:47:17 –> 01:00:50:16
You’re gonna have to give up 14 other hunts to do that, you know, that you might,

01:00:50:23 –> 01:00:51:06
You might.

01:00:51:06 –> 01:01:07:06
Yeah. It takes so much time. That’s what Adam and I are finding, and the older we get, we, we keep, we pile on more hunts and more hunts and more hunts and then we look at each other and we’re like, we’re that guy, we’re that guy we didn’t want to be. And it’s costing us quality. Yeah.

01:01:07:06 –> 01:01:43:20
Sometimes you get too much and, and you may be this way because like you alluded, you have a TV show, you’ve gotta produce episodes, you gotta have content. You’re filling schedules with stuff that could distract from 200 inch mule deer or three 80 plus bulls. Let’s face it. You are, I mean, and it’s the reality of it. And we all have things in life, whether it be now Jason and I, it it’s not even a, it’s not a struggle, but the reality of where’re where we’re at in our life is as our kids are hunting and it’s awesome, we love going on hunts with them, but, but it, but it takes time just probably like maybe you with some of your family members or, or, or extended friends or you wanna be a part of something. Yeah. We’re

01:01:43:20 –> 01:01:45:16
Consciously giving up big animals. You,

01:01:45:25 –> 01:02:19:11
But it’s, we wouldn’t trade it for anything, but it’s, it, it just, all, all these talking points go back to how hard it is when you, some things can happen by accident or sometimes fall in your lap, you know, you hunt big mul deer enough and really do it with persistence and do it in the right areas and get, you know, get good tags. You’re gonna get lucky. Sooners probably gonna hap happen, but some seems like when you want to, you wanna try to make something, go walk out the door right now and go try to kill a three 80 bull o Okay. It’s harder when it has, when you’re trying to make it happen that year, you know what I mean? As opposed to letting it

01:02:19:11 –> 01:02:21:13
It happen, it happen. Yeah. Letting it happen. Yeah,

01:02:21:15 –> 01:02:21:24
It is

01:02:22:01 –> 01:02:29:23
Y yeah. All good points. I I, I think I, I’ve been spoiled or just, just flat, you know, I don’t know the right time in my place because

01:02:29:27 –> 01:02:31:26
The last we concur, we concur with that. You’re spoiled.

01:02:33:14 –> 01:02:33:28
So the

01:02:33:28 –> 01:02:42:23
Last, the last three years, so last year I killed a 200 every, what have I killed? Four, 200 inch deer in the last three years or something

01:02:42:23 –> 01:02:43:20
Like that. So two too many,

01:02:44:05 –> 01:03:08:01
Too many. And I’d like to say that I think I’m figuring out the recipe, but you and I, we all know that’s not true. Right. You just keep, I mean the big deer is so hard to kill, but this elk thing is drove me crazy. But I have been fortunate enough this year that I have stacked myself up with hopefully an opportunity to kill a record book antelope. A big deer and a big elk. And I’m hoping to do it during my homestead.

01:03:08:11 –> 01:03:08:19

01:03:08:26 –> 01:03:15:07
Geez. Wow. Well, sounds like you need another podcast about November 1st. I don’t know when you gonna be done with that.

01:03:17:04 –> 01:03:17:14

01:03:17:22 –> 01:03:19:14
That’s awesome. Good for you. That’s well

01:03:19:14 –> 01:03:20:11
That’s exciting. We’ll

01:03:20:11 –> 01:03:51:19
Look forward to your, at least it gives you a reason to get up in the morning. You know, that’s the thing about, you know, Adam and I stacking up hunts and applying for tags is, I mean sometimes we’re, you know, you’re grinding away and you’re, you’re doing the same thing. You’re grinding with, you know, several businesses and whatnot. But there’s gotta be a reason why, I mean, yeah, we eat, but it’s kind of, you know, and it, and the reason we’re doing it is just keeps us, we keep looking at what’s gonna happen this fall and the excitement of that. And that just keeps us coming in to the office. That’s not so fun. Well, everybody’s out shed hunting, Turkey hunting and doing everything else, you know?

01:03:52:21 –> 01:04:10:23
No, you’re right. I’ve had a lot of conversations with other business guys or even good customers of mine and they look at it and you know, a couple different ways. But you know, you gotta say, man, you know, the very thing that I’m doing is the reason why I’m still hungry and the reason that I’m hungry or, or excuse me, the fact that I’m hungry is the reason that you like me. Yeah,

01:04:10:26 –> 01:04:21:05
Well you and you must, you must have a good wife to put up with that. You’ve got quite a schedule, you know, work-wise, hunting wise, you’re not doing anything light, you know what I mean? Everything’s

01:04:21:14 –> 01:04:22:09
Full bore. Full

01:04:22:11 –> 01:04:23:13
Bore. So

01:04:23:29 –> 01:04:26:24
Yeah. Yeah. Forwards are backwards, right boys. That’s right.

01:04:27:10 –> 01:04:27:19

01:04:27:25 –> 01:05:02:08
Tell us, as we wrap up a little bit, tell us, I, I mean we’ll maybe get a website stuff for folks that might be interested in seeing some of your accessories, you know, from the bipa to everything else there. But then also give a, give individuals an idea of how long it takes, if they were to order a gun, to get a gun, what they’re looking at timeline wise. It’s obviously spring this time of year, people might have in their minds, if they’re looking for a gun, can they get one by fall. So talk through that and then maybe how to contact you either through that process is probably just a phone call and then, or the website on some of your other accessories and gear. Yeah,

01:05:02:11 –> 01:05:15:25
Yeah, we got that. And then also just, just a real quick, you know, I don’t, I think shooting courses are filling up. So we got the June 6th and seventh course coming up where we’re gonna be at anyway and then how do they sign up for that as well?

01:05:16:16 –> 01:06:09:18
Okay, we’ll see if I can figure out how to get through all this. So the shooting schools at this point, we are 100% full with the exception of solely wanting to get an epic outdoors group. So as we go through all this and your viewers and readers and whatnot start to realize that we’re, we’re making a good buddy relationship here. I have set aside one of the level two at the Sheep Mountain Ranch that’s a slot of six. So we’re hoping to encourage some of your customers, your viewers, guys that can come out and be with, with, you know, Adam or whoever’s gonna come out and see me. And, and it is an all inclusive deal. So once you get there, all your lodging and food and rifle and ammo and the whole thing is in, you know, and part of that deal. And so if we can get a good group together through you guys, I’m really excited to do that. So we’ve got that I believe is June 6th and seven I believe off the top my head. That’s

01:06:09:18 –> 01:06:09:23
Right. Yep.

01:06:10:02 –> 01:06:57:06
Okay. So, so anybody that is part of your association that wants to come jump, join on, let’s get them on the roster and make a great time this summer. And then as far as rifle, lead times go, steel barrel guns, we run around three to four months. Carbon barrel guns seem to be about one month longer. It’s just literally the lead time in the barrel itself. We’re not a huge company but we are very capable of maintaining a good quality inventory. So you know, we have about enough components for a hundred rifles on the shelf at all times, but it just depends on which configuration a guy is ordering. So tends to a lot go on the barrels, but benchmark absolutely prioritizes our business to take care of us so we can get those barrels fairly quick, get those rifles into production and, and get ’em.

01:06:57:06 –> 01:07:28:04
So as long as a guy is thinking ahead, you know, with a three to five month lead somewhere in there and, and sometimes it can be even less time than that, but we can absolutely, you know, take care of ’em and even if a guy’s a little short on time understanding that we’re gonna shoot that rifle in, it’ll cut down a lot of their needed range time. Yeah. And other things when they get the rifle right, it’ll be pretty much turnkey outta the box. But we always encourage somebody to take a few shots, make sure it’s cited in for their eyes and they get used to breaking that trigger and things like that. But it’s pretty much a turn setup.

01:07:28:18 –> 01:07:46:11
So guy can also get the, the light guns. I obviously we talked about the ascent and that was kind of the crux of it, you know, but, but you’ve got normal weighted guns as well for guys that aren’t necessarily sheep hunting or back country hunting that like the feel of a little bit heavier gun. You’ve got, you’ve got an assortment there of of models. Yeah,

01:07:46:19 –> 01:08:00:15
Yeah. We’ve got a really good stable of your more traditional six and a half to eight pound type stuff. Right, okay. And pretty much any popular cartridge or caliber, if it’s got the potential that we’ll put our name on, just know to call us and we’re gonna build it for you.

01:08:00:28 –> 01:08:05:02
Okay, gotcha. Right on. So give us a website.

01:08:05:23 –> 01:08:23:06
Okay, so for the rifles you can go to moa rifles.com for the accessories, the rugged ridge outdoor gear.com, just our store site for any of that kind of, you know, the range finders and the kestrels and stuff like that we talked about would be Extreme store us.

01:08:23:17 –> 01:08:29:26
Okay. And then if they wanna sign up for the, for the course, is it where, who are they calling on that? Yeah,

01:08:29:27 –> 01:08:36:05
It’d be best to call the shop directly, which is a 5 4 1 5 2 6 18 20.

01:08:36:20 –> 01:08:36:29

01:08:37:12 –> 01:08:50:25
Reiterate one more time where that’s gonna be Bob, so that people know if they’re thinking about traveling, flying out, you know, flying out to it, driving out to it, where are they flying to? You know, it’s not far from Boise, I don’t know it. Boise that’s closest I guess major airport.

01:08:51:14 –> 01:09:21:19
Yeah, so you got a couple options. So the, the, the city that is is the one that we wanna pay attention to is Baker City, Oregon. From there we go north out of there towards a little town called Richland. But for just primary logistics, let’s say Baker City, Oregon, if they fly private, which you know, a lot of, some guys actually, I mean more guys and I even know have planes these days. You can fly right into Baker if you’re gonna go commercial, you’re, you nailed it, you’ll go into Boise and just, you know, maybe rent a car or something and come right across and and up and around.

01:09:22:08 –> 01:09:29:00
Okay, gotcha. Okay. Sounds good. So if you want some good Mexican food and steaks, right, he’s

01:09:29:00 –> 01:09:29:18
Set, we’re in,

01:09:30:20 –> 01:09:40:06
Hey we take care of it man. We’ve got a, I mean it’s all inclusive in there, right? I mean the cook all joking aside, the cook that we have in there is really, really good with the whole Dutch oven thing.

01:09:40:13 –> 01:09:45:13
We staying at the lodge, we stay at the Sheep Mountain Outfitters Lodge and everything. Looking forward to that. Awesome. Yeah,

01:09:45:21 –> 01:10:52:09
No, the whole deal, you guys will come in. So it’s kind of an interesting, it’s, it’s a cool place. So what, what they actually do, the students, you guys included? We’ll actually meet at the ranch headquarters, which is close to the, one of the highways and we’ll actually have everybody park there, put the gun cases and bags and everything and some Polaris rangers and then it’s actually about 10 miles give or take to go all the way up and over the canyon through Timber Canyon and all the way up and over and we drop into the lodge, which is an off grid lodge, it’s all generator run stuff like that. And so you’re actually brought in by Polaris. We use the Polaris to go around the ranch and you know, acquire and engage all the hunting scenario based targetry and everything like that. All the meals are cooked and I mean it’s just a, you know what it is, it’s a mini hunting trip without getting your hands bloody. Yeah, that’s awesome. And then when, when we’re done then we, we, after breakfast on that third day, we take everybody back up and over the mountain and, and take ’em to their cars and in the mornings and evenings guys will have spotting scopes spread out all over the deck of the lodge and there’ll be bucks and bulls and everything up in the draws and the velvet and it’s, it’s cool. It’s a good deal. Sounds

01:10:52:09 –> 01:10:56:21
Like that’s good. That’s awesome. So what, what price range are we running for the course, if you don’t mind me asking? So

01:10:56:26 –> 01:11:02:14
Re yeah, retailing that is 25 but we gave all the Epic guys a 10% off so I think that makes it about 2250.

01:11:02:18 –> 01:11:04:08
Yeah, perfect. Okay.

01:11:04:11 –> 01:11:15:22
And again, like you said, they don’t have, you know, if a guy wants to bring his setup to get going with it, bring it all I’ll go. But if you wanna just totally show and go, don’t wanna travel with guns, we provide guns and amel.

01:11:15:23 –> 01:11:46:20
Perfect. Sounds great. Well we sure appreciate you Bob, spending a little bit of time with us here. And so anyway, anybody that’s interested, obviously you know, you can go to, you can call 5 4 1 5 2 6 1 8 2 0. You go to M mo m moa rifles.com, check out some of their gear. We appreciate you Bob. I don’t know, it sounds like you’ve got a full schedule this year. We’re looking forward to checking it out. I’m gonna go on YouTube and watch you smoke a big oh deer and then try to figure out how to get attacked to myself. So

01:11:47:09 –> 01:11:51:20
Not to add any pressure, but we’ll have you back this fall on the big three in Oregon, see how they went.

01:11:51:23 –> 01:11:52:12
Okay. Okay.

01:11:52:12 –> 01:11:55:25
Well that sounds great guys. Well I appreciate all the opportunities in talking with you guys, okay.

01:11:55:25 –> 01:11:57:07
Okay. Appreciate you buddy. Thanks a lot.

01:11:57:07 –> 01:11:58:12
Alright, bye-bye. You bet. Bye.