EP 141: Change Creates Opportunity

change creates opportunity you should be thinking about a lot of different options and evaluating your age you know what's happening around you and so it'll take limited entry points versus general points anything to do with western big game welcome to the epic outdoors podcast powered by under armor begins hey everybody jason carter adam bronson john peterson coming at you from vegas down here at shot show we're trying to get the freak out of the city and head back to cedar city it was raining on us down here in fact we looked at the radar there's rain everywhere rain snow antlers are growing well actually it's pretty starting to get shed here shed elk should be shedding but we're super excited about what's in store for 2020 before we get started we want to thank under armor we appreciate their support uh just met with them down here at shot show and

there's a lot of fun things coming at you in fact we've got a few changes some increased partnerships with epic outdoors crew and some awesome new companies that's right where were we last week last week we were wild sheep in fact uh well a couple of us were shooting coyotes on the way to wild sheep yeah we actually drove out there and you know we were leaving town and we felt like we forgot something like 5 a.m yeah my wife's in the car yeah devin boyatt myself jason janet we we knew we needed to grab a coyote gun and sure glad we did both coming and going it's pretty funny we're like going to my house to grab the the old ruger m77 probably built in 1972 and she's like really we're going back to the house really oh yeah come on and we smoked a couple dogs coming and going so it was fun had a great show there in reno as well saw a lot of members great way to connect to

their members there great show we've always been partners from day one with wild sheep foundation and epic outdoors believe in what they do of course we've had our chance to to uh hunt some sheep over the years but it's just a great way to connect with our members and you know sell some memberships but mainly meet and greet have some one-on-one interaction consulting with members as the new draw years upon us yeah it was an awesome show it's really hard for us here at epic i mean our company we're uh very personalized customized dealing with people consulting or writing them at publications these are a lot of uh job responsibilities we don't just take lightly and pay other people to do it although we do have some great guys on our crew and have a super team we couldn't ask for better people but at the same time we're just we're so involved it's hard to get

away and so we're trying to go to these shows meet people and uh you know do the best to show our support and of course we appreciate the support you all show us but anyway a few days away from the office is somewhat crippling at times especially this time of year and same thing down here at shot show do a day here and a day there and try to go home and work from daylight till dark so anyway it's a fun time of year it's also a busy time of year and and uh you know we kind of enjoy this application season john wasn't able to join us john what were you doing last week putting the final touches yeah putting the final touches on the february magazine it actually should be shipping shortly so that one will be hitting mailboxes uh pretty soon yeah that one's online we got the mag up online uh haven't told the world about it but uh anyway i guess we did how's that go on there and

check it out uh it has uh oregon new mexico and utah inside so anyway we'll do we'll do a better job on the maybe the next podcast we'll do a breakdown of that go through some of the changes in each states each of those three states as far as what to look forward to some pretty significant changes in uh uh well both utah and new mexico and we'll get to those but today the shot show had an awesome day like jason said earlier we it's a great way to meet with some of our partners advertising partners and other partners that we have in the industry and we're gonna have some big announcements i believe to our epic outdoors members that will be in the form of some new partnerships that we have um as well as just some new things in our business maybe even a little a little expansion let's say that yeah but uh but well within well within the same realm we're not going to start selling you know

hot dogs or you know anything like that but anyway bun please and i love mustard but anyway no it's not going to spread ourselves too thin but we do have some exciting things that we think go hand in hand with what we already do and that's just you know talking researching writing consulting about western big game before we get too deep into it i probably want to just mention something about all of the photos that that we received for that february magazine and also for the march already they've come in just lots and lots of response overwhelming members are just sending in man members had a great year this last year and sent in pictures and so that that magazine is so jam-packed with content that a lot of members photos are going to be have to be saved for later on in the year so if you send in your photos

thank you so much uh you might have to wait a little bit but uh we'll try to get them all in there in the future but uh don't be disappointed if you're not in that february magazine yeah if you want to throw some something to us there go to or uh you can email it at photos at epic outdoors dot com p-h-o-t-o-s at epic outdoors dot com we sure appreciate it send it to us and then uh yeah if you have any side notes you want to throw in there uh comments maybe podcast ideas sure would sure would appreciate some of that as well and i think if you killed something that's that's special you know don't be afraid to write a story or do a write-up you really don't be intimidated by it i talked to so many guys who are intimidated to write a story and you know don't think they're a writer don't worry about it

just kind of write down what happened on the hunt and and share it we're we're a community that's uh all you know got very similar interests and passion and so just just kind of tell us what happened and share your your uh photos with us it's great uh great to see the successes of you know when we preach applying and building points and and doing the right research and then a guide draws a great tag has a great hunt it's it's fun to to read about you want to just write a paragraph or two uh we'll throw a snapshot in there and enlarge your photos and whatnot you'll be able to check it out i like those as much as a story a lot of times uh we're just kind of i don't know i'm a i'm a picture book guy it's like pretend i'm three years old i like pictures so anyway well those are really easy to submit on

the website go to our website epicoutdoors.com and just uh hit on the menu to submit a story to us or a snapshot and then just there's a couple questions you answer skip any that you that you want to skip and submit your photos to us speaking of our website i'd like to just throw a little plug out there we do have a few new options on there bronson well the point tracker feature you know a lot of people you might have your own way of tracking your state id numbers your your points for you and your family and whatnot which we all do this day and age everybody's got username and passwords practically and it's it's somewhat ridiculous how big a spreadsheet has to be to just be able to get into a state system but anyway uh we had you know our our odds have been on our website for for several years now uh

drawing odds for all the western states not just you know the magazine has those in there but we don't have every single unit in the state in in many instances there's just too many to put in the magazine so we have them on our website under the members section once you log in but what we we had a few people you know actually quite a few comments to ask to maybe add a point tracker feature on there because what we're finding is when people are going on there to look up drawing odds for the various states and you know minimum point queries and things like that they wanted a place they could quickly go look and see how many points they had and had it right there in the same place and makes complete sense realize you don't want to have to you know if you're at work or whatever and your spreadsheets at home on your home computer you don't have all your points you don't want to have to

wait until you get home you want to look up your odds look at what your points were right there plug them in you know see what you got so we've added that feature recently or in the in the process of updating uh state drawing odds state by state in a in a rapid fashion one after another obviously the states that are opening first like wyoming arizona you know new mexico some of those that are open up first they're going to appear first because people are going to want that data first but the point tractor is going to be a neat feature just to be able to store your stuff there so that when you go there to do the research of what you can draw what your odds are with your various points your points are right there again only able for you to see under your member login you know i kind of like that

feature we many times bronson will hit me and say hey take a break and go check out how many points your wife has go check how many points you have and i'm going and logging into utah game and fish or nevada arizona or wherever and uh you know and then that starts a discussion for a half hour and then we go back to doing statistics there early in the morning and so this will be kind of nice it's actually nice we have a drop box you know i have a little excel spreadsheet and put it throwing in a drop box that's on my phone or my computer or whatever but it'll be kind of nice to have it where people are looking up their odds and they can run over just a couple clicks away from the points they have and be able to check things out and of course we could you know track our kids or wives or whatever

you know another thing i was thinking we should add on there is maybe a little hunt planner where we can actually log in some dates and maybe some options of things that we're thinking about you know i've got of course i've got your hunt schedule lined out for you and uh you you've kind of those are outlined a few options for me very fluid those are very those are first drafts jason caught me one day i was just spewing on you know wanting to oregon otc no that is the az otc those were not on there pretty sure colorado uh pretty positive those were not on there but the ones that i did say that i might consider burning my points on this year you know colorado deer nevada deer arizona deer um he put them in stone he's going to try to hold me to all three of those in one year and make it so i can't do any of them justice but i'm not doing three and four

antelope hunts well that's those are two day trips and you know that's an hour for hunting when you show up and then another day's drive back home so anyway we're going to make sure carter gets a grand slam of antelope we're going to try to get four in one year he's already got two lined up four we're going to try to get four let's get a utah somehow concert or uh maybe a expo tag something like that kind of cool if they had a different name but where they're all the same name it's just a little weird yeah well but how about just four of them a quad a quad pod of antelope how's that quad pod is freaking speed quad pod of two points anyway speaking of the western hunting conservation expo that's coming up in about three weeks it is over the 14th because you know valentine's day for all

of you hunters it's always been valentine's day up there in salt lake it's a great i mean a phenomenal way to take your wife on a nice date cupid lives right salt lake isn't that a great place i mean percent i'm sure every wife or you know girlfriend listen to this podcast would agree there's no place on earth they'd rather be taken to a place of a bunch of other hunters looking at uh big bucks bulls rams everything like that and having your husband or boyfriend just just talking about all their wants and wishes and how much time they're going to be gone all this next away from the family that's right yeah so there is the rodesio grill and every girl likes a good meat bar you know what i mean i mean cedar city doesn't have a rodesio grill we do usually go there and get fed on protein cake factory what else is that what that's called john cheesecake factory willy wonka's

chocolate factory i don't know anyway we will be there uh epic outdoors we're uh glad to be going there it's another great way to connect of our with our members and uh five for the extra five dollar tags at the western hernia conservation expo that's right the full curl society will be on the saturday where we have been and continue to be a sponsor of that event we love seeing people get wild and crazy when their name gets drawn they get to go on a sheep hunt and we'll be there on saturday there at the western hernia conservation expo for the full curl society and uh we're also yeah we'll be sponsoring that again we'll also be doing a podcast uh uh during a seminar what oh yeah we did to sign down yeah i think we've committed to a live podcast in a seminar and basically going to crush a lot of our experiences uh hunting the west not only the the end result maybe the hunt experience

but then how we got the tag and and talk you through it'll kind of naturally bring up uh some of our thought processes behind how we got on those hunts anyway i believe that's friday evening if i'm not mistaken when i say evening i think it's about five or 5 30 yeah right there one of the two that's right check it out on hunt expo.com it's got the schedule right under seminars on the main menu yeah so here we are we're headed northbound we've left vegas sin city heading to another sinful city mesquite and uh anyways we're doing such you know there was one thing that uh was crossing my mind as we're talking about some of these hunts what you know i talked about it a little bit in this uh february magazine that's online is how change creates opportunity and adam alluded to it we talked about all kinds of changes that are occurring in utah and a few other changes around uh you know in the

in the different states that we're discussing these next few issues but uh you know hunt season dates and uh new seasons and new hunts and you know things like that and so basically you know changes is how we've capitalized on a lot of our hunts bronson it has i mean if you go back even to i can't i don't know if you could call these changes but they kind of are new both the time that you drew in 2004 and i drew in 2008 our california big horn tags in oregon they were first available the units were ever open to non-residents and so it was a new change it doesn't mean that they were going to go under the radar i mean your odds were one in 409 mine were one in 217 don't ask us how we both remember those but we do anyhow but there's other opportunities with season date changes or creations of brand new units

we've you know case in point you've drawn a couple of new mexico tags and for elk and i've drew one last year and we'll just call them off the radar because they're not terrible units but they're just not proven off the radar they're not proven so it's like you're kind of going to be a guinea pig so part of this is we're looking at like these these hunts that he's talking about specifically were very low tag units and so there's just not a lot of animals being killed so there's not a lot of 350 bulls being killed and so everybody's kind of nervous to go and spend time there and to really utilize those hunts not knowing really what's there because the product of what's there is just kind of a product of who's drawing it and how much time those people are allocating to the hunt so sometimes you know

success kill percentages and and sizes of of game taken isn't necessarily 100 indicative of what the unit's capable of producing because you're when you have low tag numbers you have low hunter numbers we have low hunter numbers and they're all on a draw process you can't buy unit-wide tags there you meaning tags that are good for the public land as well then you end up with a with a the the random guys that draw and their capabilities time-wise money-wise being able to hire somebody not hire somebody or or just flat hunting capabilities or what their trophy desires are to be able to know what the unit's capable of producing so once in a while you hear of a 350 bull or something doesn't necessarily mean everybody's flocking to it because nobody really knows what it's capable of and so once in a while brownson we're going out on a limb saying low tag numbers or no tag numbers

till this year or a new rut season date means i get to hunt potentially if i draw giant bulls that are dying of old age yeah or just in a unique time frame that they've never been hunted and we're talking about elk in this instance because we both you know gone out on a limb although maybe new mexico isn't the best example because it's not a point system state you can just you can gamble a little bit you can just roll the dice you know we i've eaten tags in new mexico before and uh you know just on these same type of hunts but once in a while they pay off and they pay off bib we both killed 380 plus bulls on units like this the first time a new season's popped up in a unit or a new season in in a time frame that we feel is more conducive to killing a big big bull bronson i drew and and i say i drew okay uh i drew a tag twice in that same unit and both times killed a 380 plus bull

but now i'm looking at it going well you know it's kind of known a little bit um maybe the top's been creamed off now but i'm definitely looking at the next available opportunity and that's the one thing a good buddy of mine roger smithson said he says you know guys are thinking that you know they're out thinking you or they're they're they're with you there you hunted this unit this year and that you're going to go want to go back there and they don't realize you're thinking two or three years away and you're already ahead of them by two or three years and i'm thinking i can't even believe he's talking about this because i don't even think that way i don't think anything all i think is what's new what's exciting and what do we want to do we're always checking out new units well and and case in

point you know i drew a tag this year and uh in a unit just like that early season rifle tag uh never had a rifle tag in recent times or if ever and i pulled the tag there to hunt first part of october killed a great bull and yeah well i'd like to go back i'm i'm just it's just part of the hunger i guess of finding what's new it's the hunt of finding something not totally undiscovered but just something totally new that might be ripe and uh you know that unit i hunted did not have a ton of elk i killed the great bull um just as easily could have ate my tag i didn't go down there to just shoot an elk i went down there to shoot a big bull or not shoot one and it worked out and you'll notice if you read jason i's articles in this first couple magazines of of 2020 january and february we wrote application strategy articles as well as just kind of our our little rants if you will in in

the in the magazines and you're going to pick up a theme that we're going to keep hammering home a lot more it feels like and that's to just go don't be afraid to go hunt go out on a limb and try stuff don't be too conservative um now we all have points in certain states for certain species that you should protect and maybe get what you want if you have 22 sheep points in wyoming you're in the driver's seat about getting a sheep tag um pick the unit you want wait till you want to get it but don't wait too long your body's every year getting older you know things happen you know whatever but if you're in the middle of the pack or chasing things that are moving targets point creep all that's alive and well man we're we're hearing all the time in our minds of people that are overthinking if we can phrase it that way overthinking to the point that they just apply way too conservatively

they end up either applying for points only or only the very very best units and their odds are so minuscule of drawing the tags are actually applying for they never go hunting they never get what they want and by and large most of the hunts that we're going on jason are middle of the road hunts that that um we have to get you have to get tags to go hunting 100 you can't just wait for arizona strip henry mountains tags now if you're in the max point pulling arizona okay we're not telling you to bail but we're just telling you if you're not you should be thinking about a lot of different options and evaluating your age evaluating you know what's happening around you different these opportunities that we're talking about to pop up in different states you know whether it be colorado wyoming wherever you know don't be afraid to fail eat tags you know go out on a limb make

something out of most of what we make out of our hunting schedules every year are not from elite tags 100 agree with that and i think it's kind of interesting you're talking about this because you did a flat smash and grab in new mexico you smashed a giant and you stole a bull and we caught we talk about that fairly regularly stealing a bull it means you know that bull on the open market would sell for 35 40 000 you cannot find 380 plus bulls and and tags for 380 plus bulls very easily you can buy a commissioner's tag in wyoming 15 to 20 grand and you're going to hunt 350 plus bulls 350 360 a great bull on a tag like that would be a 370 inch type bull plus you're spending on top of that the guide fee of 85 9500 10 5 depending on the particular situation a ranch and so you add that together you're talking a 25 30 000 bill you know for a chance at a 360 to 380 type bull and you did a

smash and grab freaking drew a unit through the outfitter draw which is great we use outfitters fairly regularly if there's an outfitter draw such as new mexico or nevada a guide draw for deer and so to to get the tags and get those hunts that's a pretty you know nominal fee so to speak compared to the value of the hunt you enjoyed i mean in a day and a half two days you did a smash and grab on a freaking 380 bull and it's awesome you know and so what a great opportunity and and and again in a state that's not a point state what are you giving up this year i can do whatever i want again you can do it again and you're on the same playing field you're giving up nothing i have no expectations every year in arizona of getting a tag you just simply apply i generally on a couple species at least

perhaps sheep because you end up getting an extra tag or sometimes two through the outfitter draw then versus the regular draw and for me that's worth it doubling my odds or in some cases it's tripled but usually it's about doubling your odds in some cases is worth it for me for the cost that i'm gonna have to you know pay you know work a deal with an outfitter to help help me i mean i want to i want to hunt sheep as many times in my life as i can it's worth it for me to do that and in the right year i end up doing the guide draw for maybe deer or elk just to try to give me an advantage last year was shaping up to be a great moisture year if you remember back when we were playing um we thought all right this is one of those go after tags in new mexico year that's not always the case in arizona or new mexico and the desert southwest but last year application time you know

february march things were really really wet and it was one of those that i decided i'm gonna i'm gonna go the guide drawer out because i want to try to increase my chance to to pull a tag and in most cases most cases you do have better odds not always but most cases you do and in your particular situation it was actually a little bit worse yeah it worked out it was worse but the guide draw was worse than the regular draw and sometimes that happens in fact you'll see that in the sheep where it will flip-flop anyway just just one of those things where it's time and this is another one of those years there's rain and snow on a regular basis that's what's happening today and so our point is is when it's time to apply such as now you know you can fairly safely bet that arizona's gonna have a decent year and then may turn off dry and hot and miserable and suck and

whatnot and then you point guard the shiz out of your application that's the way we call it and you can always turn that tag back one time the next time you won't be able to do it but for five bucks you could turn that back if it turned off absolutely hot freaking march first it sucked and you didn't get another drop of rain until august yeah i'd be turning that tag back so anyway there's options like that but we're playing it fairly aggressive and i and i guess some of these changes in utah you know there's some new opportunities for deer yeah it may encompass you know those changes may be limited entry draw hunts on general season units um and so it'll take limited entry points versus general points uh bonus versus preference but anyway you'll be able to read all about that but our point is is there's some opportunity there for guys with 10 to 15 16 points that wouldn't

otherwise really have a chance and and you always have a chance in utah but doesn't really have that good a chance of drawing a poncegon or henry's or or oak creeks or something special and so maybe there's an opportunity for you and there's going to be a few absolute giants on the late muzzle hunts that are available in all the different general zones as well as some of these hams hunts there's just a few opportunities that we talk about at length in our publication in this february issue yeah and utah's a great example of everybody's wanting to chase the best of the best when it comes to deer and elk and uh everybody's bottlenecked in the same handful of deer units deer's probably not the best example jason talked about some of these late season muzzleloader hunts that are occurring on general season units they're not super deep rut hunts but it's going to spread applicants out there's

going to be a few great opportunities on that when it comes to elk you know might might be time for people to you know be a little bit more realistic about their point situation you might evaluate the archery seasons even though our dates are not phenomenal in utah they're early august 15th to like september 11th those are not phenomenal archery dates they're not but but it's 28 days long 28 days season if that doesn't fit you maybe look at the november hunts i know utah everybody thinks of utah hunting bulls in the rut every single day in september with either a bow rifle or muzzleloader every single day has an elk season and that's naturally when you're going to want to key in on that but naturally that's when the drawing odds are the worst you might be time for you to start looking at some of the late rifle

hunts if you're in the mid you know mid teens or upper teens and points and you're not going to ever catch those and your age is catching up to you and it's time to go hunt a bull there's many of those late season hunts in utah these are that are awesome they're not like arizona hunts and all i mean by that is they don't have hundreds of tags in utah on the late hunts there's a couple units to do but they're not crushing with three two three four five hundred tags they're not they're very very good late hunts they still don't have a lot of tags there's still not a lot of non-resident tags but the odds of drawing them are better and you're going to have a quality hunt for the most part on them so evaluate your situation be realistic go hunting don't don't leave don't die with a bunch of points um and uh i can't i can't over emphasize that enough just don't die how about that don't

don't don't do that but don't die with a lot of points either i think some of this part of the equation is is i used to have a good friend that would say the best tag has been sent to your door you're not even utilizing the best tag you're getting every year and that was my general season deer tag and we believe it and as we're getting older and we're seeing some of these opportunities dissipate we're also seeing some giants being crushed on some of these general units with guys that are you know working it hard i mean if you spend bronson i mean in in everybody i venture to say everybody's in this situation okay 98 of you out there you put less time in your backyard if we put the same time that we put in colorado or nevada or whatever some let's say it was a once a lifetime draw in arizona you put that same time energy and money into your backyard you would see a significant

difference in the quality of trophies you're taking how about this john you listening yep i'm gonna make a let's let's make a pact right now we're gonna do we're gonna do that for 2020 we're gonna ramp it up ramp up our efforts on our general season tags and i don't even know what we're gonna draw this year but i will make that commitment because we have talked about it and talked about it and talked about it that we get we look at everything out of state and we think that that's somehow better and and gonna give us more opportunity killing something big i don't always think that's gonna be the case and let's make a pact this year one of us is gonna kill i about said 200 i don't know if i want to say 200 how about we start with well john john's chasing a buck with cheaters out both sides it's a 31 32 inch or i mean let's just say it what it is john i don't know where the heck you

found it i know you're being quiet maybe we need to do a whole podcast on that buck and see if we can well jason you found one last year jason i mean did you even hunt it did you even hunt a deer oh no i didn't even hunt one day and that's the thing i did so anyway so uh a few things are just uh i guess here's our point we're not telling you to go out and be a general season deer hunter or elk hunter not really advocating that we are here at epic outdoors we love the trophy we love quality hunting opportunities and we love to hunt older age class game generally speaking general season doesn't give you that however we always have everyone whether you're in oregon hunting blacktail or whatever you have opportunities in your backyard that everyone all of us feel like we're not taking advantage of and we could do better at i'm not saying go hunt state to state generals never would advocate

that somebody in idaho has a phenomenal general season that i wouldn't because i don't have the insider knowledge we've not i don't have done the years of intel and trial and error and all that but we all have something we could do better at some of these over the counter we were talking to a guy today some of these over the counter say archery coos deer in arizona you can hunt the best units in the state over the counter in the rut with a bow every year that's right how awesome is that 13 14 points to draw the late rifle hunt the day after that hunt ends that's the day after that's right you have a bow in your hands put by a tag at walmart and go hunting that's right and so in the day that that ends all good things come to an end utah giant bulls kind of came to an end however we have some dang nice bulls it's nowhere near what it once was colorado deer will never be what it once was

2003 four five and six it just won't and so everything good comes to an end the day that those over-the-counter tags disappear it's going to be a sad day and and things disappear change happens and so anyway that's all we're saying there's opportunity for everybody no matter what having said that we're all about hunting awesome you know even some of these average units with awesome seasons i guess we uh like you ronson killing that bull i've killed bulls on average units let's call them average units really they are they're not they're not the 16 b's a 16 b you know 15 17 12 i mean none of those you know 34 36 uh the vias caldera uh vivedel any of those so i mean for all intents and purposes let's call them average units with great season that's right what about then if we're not going to commit to that in blood on on the air here well

i didn't say we were we just kind of okay took it kind of took me by surprise i had to wrap my head around it well i'm just i'm just saying let's ramp it up if we're not going to do that let's talk about something and it doesn't you don't need to get a specific to tell me the unit in the tree you're going to be sitting under carter but what what hunt or tag or species and state are you anticipating and seeking a tag for this year with with the most um anticipation well i and i will answer that after you and john be thinking about that so so air i'm gonna hunt colorado deer every year i just don't know where this year yes uh they give those turn back tags and the opportunities to pick those up generally mid-august okay and so i've i've have thought about some of the best tags come available during the season but you have to be in person you have to live over there to get it and so i've

half thought about there's a lot what well i can't wait to hear this because i'm gonna i'm gonna thought about sitting there i'm gonna see if you actually drive to colorado and sit outside an office and refresh and refresh and refresh well well i'm just saying that's an option okay there's number option number one whatever comes available that's a special unit boom smash and grab and go okay the other thing is i'm thinking there's weird units um

nevada i love nevada for a number of reasons but i'm i like hunting these weird places in the muzzle or archery or whatever and and and i think wherever there's old old animals animals are dying of old age you could have a giant that's the way i feel anymore i mean there was several giants several of the biggest bucks killed last year in the state of nevada came from no namer crap no namer you would label them as crap 250 slash 242 net how about that is that a good one that's a good one okay and you look through the nevada record book you can it's less than one hand the last 20 years it's produced a net 230 yes that's right and so i just feel like i feel like there's so much opportunity we're all over looking there's units in new mexico deer units in new mexico and guys you know they throw they like to throw a little truck and pick at me and of course you know uh play guess this

you know right guess this is this is a shooter yeah there's a shooter right under your nose you know what i mean and so anyway there's some great bucks not coming from unit two not unit four not unit five um you know but some weird units and so anyway all right well maybe another way to play this game you what i didn't give you what you're looking for not really no i mean you gave me some options Wyoming and Colorado what are you looking for what what would make you happy those are already on the record 20 some points and she's already teed me up like hey here's a deal if i'm gonna get a tag i need to start shooting yes well so yeah just to maybe another thing where are you point heavy and and and uh what do you where do you think you're gonna try to i mean there's because some of the states

you can anticipate what you're gonna draw Wyoming's one of them Colorado's one of them you've mentioned them for the antelope and we've teased you about for you know a month of that and yeah it's basically just it's time to pull the plug quit building points for those that's what i'm not sure yet but you know what oh he's vacillating February 11th is there's on an elk and antelope deadline that's coming up on us i'm definitely going to be applying for elk and i'm going to probably do a late season down there wow gonna be honest with you wow i've hunted archery unit one i've hunted early rifle unit one of course we spent some time with our friends and other places first choice will be something special let's say 23 south for example second choice be a late smash and grab unit you know what i mean gotcha all right still attack still a big bull that's broken just passed his g1 on one

side probably that's right well what about you Bronson i've got where we going well for a couple of years probably two the last two or three as many of you probably know i've been on the brink of drawing my desert sheep tag in utah and and to some extent i i've let that hold me hostage a little bit and as it should because that was going to be you know the final ram that i was going to hunt north america and not the final final but priority number one you know what i mean finish my slam finnaz whatever not the final ram i hope to ever hunt but but i had to steer clear of things that's a long season in utah starts mid-september it goes through the first part of november and just due to the fact that you know i'm also going to have clients i'm going to be guiding and knew that i was going to

have a prolonged sheep season i had to have the time i need to do that having said that i'm one of those guys with you know 20 plus arizona deer points and i'm really scratching my head a little bit about how to best use those this year now that's not been something i've been real aggressive about while i've while i've i've been i've been somewhat aggressive but not really uh while i've had that sheep tag i've just kind of you know applied for the best of best strip or the late the late uh rut hunts only and that's probably to the extent that i'm going to do but i might leave the strip forever i might leave it come on i might leave it come on i might i'm not in the true max point pool so i'm one of those guys that yeah while the hopes and dreams are great to draw that i don't think it's a reality and i'm

ready to maybe do something about it so that's one late coos deer no early coos no middle coos deer we're talking mule deer i can hunt coos for the rest of my life um after i burn these ones that's my plan i also am packing double digit deer points in colorado i burned them last um in about 2008 or 9 and i told myself i would never get double digit points again i think i drew with about you're one of those guys and i'm one of them but i've probably hunted over the last 10 or 12 years i was thinking probably eight or nine of those years i've hunted colorado on one means or another either be modestly or cheap price landowner tags or turn back tags in not and i've not killed a lot of bucks but i'm going to colorado i use colorado as as my november show up and hunt state without scouting that's how

i normally view colorado having said that the dates shift a little bit later this year for 2020 yeah they do and i want to use my points this year because in 2021 they're going to shift even later and i think point creep is going to be off the charts that's i agree 100 and that's where i think a prime example of change we're super excited about this change it's definitely going to finish off the quality that's left there in colorado yeah it makes you wonder i mean the third and fourth season dates i i feel bad for the deer in some units if it does snow they're going to get crushed and i want to be on the front end of deer getting crushed not on the scraps i think i think part of that though you know with these late season dates second season i think if i'm going from memory in 2021 will end on november

7th and those are going to be good dates yes i think and everybody's going to be concentrating on third and third and fourth they go so late second season might crush a bunch of great bucks so those are things to look forward in with anticipation so anyway those are a couple of hunts that i plan on the unfortunate thing of the unfortunate thing about those two is the deer in colorado i'm not going to find out until the first part of june and the deer in arizona i'm not if you drew a tag yeah if i drew a tag and my deer in arizona i'm not going to find out to the end of june first of july it's the last thing we find out so that's not those are not two great things to base my whole fall around because if i strike out on on you know 50 50 or type units and i'm planning around them i could have i could have a lighter year than i want and i'm then you're gonna do an

otc archery deer in oregon no i'm pretty sure i'm not gonna do that but i'll be you know i'll be you know helping you pack out antelope i guess i don't know

john so for this time of year i get really ramped up in the emotional part of it and every year i've got this hope that i'm going to draw a sheep tag this year so so those states that don't have a point in the growing system i get really excited about you know and then every year my hopes and dreams are crushed but you know wasn't it john that said young young people shouldn't be drawing sheep tags i'm not so young anymore so those sheep tags should be for me i think that was on the record at one point and john we got some hate mail i think i was half joking john's is like to hell with everybody else i'm gonna draw the sheep tags so it's it's hopeful especially new mexico and idaho those are big ones and and just you know hoping to get lucky one day and uh utah i'm actually getting up there

in points john yeah that was one thing i was gonna stir the combination don't you have a you have high teens yeah if i'm not mistaken 18 or 19 on elk and sheep in utah high teens come on

for you let's burn john's points right now how are we gonna do it i love spending people's money and i love spending people's points john let's do this i got i'm just getting to where i can draw in a good elk tag in colorado too so yes let's do let's look i got an idea i got an let's do an archery la salle and then he's giving up a grab and 60 on the he's giving up about

you're giving up about 14 points for that out tagging you todd john more than you that's a lot of i think a five pointer i think it'll be a good learning curve but i think there's a there's a novel idea sometime we should have that's bad consulting of everybody on the air because we don't have everybody with us tonight but if we had a podcast with everybody everybody has to put one state and one species points in the pool okay all right in the hat okay everybody one state one species in the in the hat and i'll and i'll donate my i'll be the first one to do it i'll don't might donate my max points montana moose to the pot okay all right and there's a pot there's so many people in the office gets to decide where i apply i don't care to apply me come on tell me where to apply oh i'll okay i love this and everybody has to do that with the state and the species put it in there and we burn your

points for you general dear one point go ahead i'll decide where you're going yes do it why not everybody do it i'll sign up for it first all right and and and maybe we'll actually take input from from our listeners all right tell me where to apply i'm not putting in for a cow tag so don't send me those types of things for montana but that would be a fun let's do it it obviously maybe it wouldn't be your mat you wouldn't be john sheep points in utah or zout points in utah but part of the buy-in might be it might be new mexico part of the buy-in is you promise to go with each other so if you're gonna help me spend my points you're gonna go with me so if it's miserable it's you're with me for you yes let's make some rules and let's do it maybe it's new mexico but it doesn't burn your points carter i could just see jason yeah burn my air you pick my arizona or my new

new mexico sheep units and i'm in i can see you can't do that one in 1200 dogs go ahead let's pick them for me have at it all right pick pick me on the every unit's a trophy yeah you send me the arc dome there for deer in nevada we're gonna have a problem well you get to archery on the arc dome start hiking for 155 you get to pick the state and species that goes in the hat and i think that needs to be written in employment contracts at epic outdoors that's you got to do that once a year and we have fun with it and you do have to go be co camp glasser camp you know camp slash what uh cook for for for for lack of a better word

i think it'd be fun and i'm putting my montana moose points max points on the line for that all right come on give me somebody tell me where to put it if you live in montana and i promise you have a giant bull in your backyard and you think that you're never going to hunt that bull and you just assume it die before it becomes a unit available to non-residents and you don't want to turn into wolf crap you know because that could happen you just see not not see that happen give me a call and bronson will go that's right and we'll film it it'll be awesome and we'll give you the tenderloins which are pretty big on a moose that'll feed a family of four as long as you pay for your own gas that's right anyway john i think we should we should look at your utah elk i know i don't know it's time utah elk have never been worse let's use them now

let's use them on a lasalle archery burn and turn baby let's do this yeah john don't you want to move on to dare i mean geez maybe we can even get a point booster involved here for john

cash archery

bad consulting sorry john i'm sorry anyway it'd be fun well anyway there's guys out there too that have a ton of points don't know what to do with them hey if you want to boost somebody here in the epic outdoors office we might go and hunt with you call us you got a bunch of wyoming elk points you want to go hunt something or wyoming deer or wyoming antelope or somewhere that we can average points give us a haul or we'll freaking go hunt with you have a good time and maybe kill an absolute monster if you've got 10 utah cow uh elk points and want to split them with carter he's in i'm your man i have zero that's right we'll drop a couple of bombs on a couple of moms you know what i'm saying it'd be awesome huh i guess anyway i guess our point of all this is change creates opportunity and you need

lots of opportunities to kill big stuff so we're excited of course there's not a lot that doesn't make us excited here in the office we've got wyatt he's headed out on some kind of barbara sheep hunt in texas he's super excited of course everything's legal in texas you can saw the top off a van and do some night hunt predator predator control and maybe we'll convince him to do that of course he likes to go to bed early so who knows huh of course we can pick on why he's not even here at least he doesn't have a headset yeah john you're headed out to mexico yeah a little coos deer hunt yeah john first our first coos deer hunt right yeah first coos deer what i love about this hunt bronson what earlier today when we're eating lunch at the shot show we're like hey john where are you going he goes i don't know he has no idea all he knows is he's getting in a truck and driving across the border

we asked him chihuahua sonora he said i don't know i have no idea well no i do know have you checked that truck for any random shells and little obscure crevices yeah i know that i'm gonna be blindfolded john let me just to get there you are not going with a buddy and he won't tell you it's ultra secret come on okay john um chris you need to get a lot of the information from john about the magazine the march magazine before john leaves okay see he doesn't come back we need to know how to plug and play that thing we need to chris chris and chris doesn't have one of these uh mics but we do need chris chris knows spanish and he needs to teach john a few key words like take all my money i'm sorry uh i didn't mean to kill things on your property uh take the meat i don't need it you can have it feed your family leave me alone i want to see my family sorry i love mexico do what you wish with me

uh i hate trump

these are key words that's right john make sure chris go over that get rosetta stone and stuff involved if you need to over the next week get some things involved for john we'll just call them safe words because that's what they are not in favor of the wall that's right the wall those are really critical components when you're going to mexico that's right john well probably ought to not wear a red hat and with white lettering you know what i mean yeah like a little heart and the word i heart trump that's just not going to cut it down there you know what i'm saying make america great again don't wear that one so anyway anyway john have a great time you're gonna have a blast yeah it's gonna be fun hunting the gray ghost of the south yeah that's right super exciting i'm excited for you john i think

you'll have a great time we have a lot of good friends in mexico speaking of mexico we do have a mexican desert sheep hunt with one of the best down there he smashed a couple of giants two uh one 70 and a 180 179 and 180 this week these are all of course free range you know legitimate we've been to this ranch ourselves it's all legitimate it's all free range very safe uh we realize it's not a hunt everybody can afford and whatnot but got an opening for the end of march just came open so yeah anyway somebody's interested pass them pass the uh info on to them have them give us a call at epic outdoors 435-263-0777 all right with that we do have a few openings for some exotics down there in texas as well as barbers sheep there in new mexico so if you won't do it you are looking for something spring black bear

turkey whatever uh mountain lion still a lot of line hunts open around the west so that's right still plenty to hunt if you got some time and you're itching to get out of the house john are we supposed to give anybody else a plug well i've thought of a valentine's tip that i can give this is this is this radio safe is this uh podcast safe all right this is coming from a guy this is coming from a guy i don't know where you're going through smash and grab you know what i'm saying you know where i'm heading with this john okay do we dare talk about it let's bring it up come on let's just tell us we just came from vegas just tell us when in vegas get married if you can huh what is the tip john when it's your second marriage and you've done it done it all before you know i drive through vegas wedding you just can't beat it it's awesome i love the story john and the awesome thing is is

she's a great gal yeah it's not one of it was not like one of these one night dealer bobbers or nothing like that so anyway i just want to throw that what is the tip i can't wait coming from so the tip it's valentine's day the perfect thing you can buy is a ticket to hawaii oh i like where he's in our hunt giveaway all right i like where he's going with this this is funny this came from john's wife herself yes it is this hunt was born from our wives largely john's wife but but we had a complaint there's not enough hunts and things for the ladies so we did a hawaiian hunt with an axis deer tell us about it yeah so you it's for two so you can take your wife take your girlfriend go to hawaii spend a couple days on the beach and spend a couple days hunting axis deer both of you get to shoot deer we're actually throwing in 1500 bucks cash so you can

book your reservation stay wherever you want uh um on maui it's on the island of maui axis deer bronson's done i've been there done that we did a family vacation and everybody laughs at me because my kids were smashing stuff and i was getting abused and things like that on social media as the family were seeing pictures i'm like yeah becky you can't leave them leave the guns home and hey it was for the kids i didn't even pull the trigger so it's not about some hunts aren't about you bronson right they weren't about me it was for my family activities i mean somehow i got abused for you know hijacking a family vacation with guns and hawaii this came from jen herself and it's awesome so anyway we do we are giving away a bunch of hunts here at epic outdoors at epic outdoors.com check them out got can enter by february 29th and that is one of the hunts you can win is an axis

hunt for two and a hawaii with 1500 bucks cash for go to lord's accommodations and you're you know stay for the week out there so great tip john i love where you're going with that everybody is smart to throw a few in there and their wife valentine's tip from casanova himself all right guys that's about it we're going to roll into this flying jay here in mesquite eat a donut or something get back on the road and uh i don't know chill out for another couple hours how about that