Archery Tips, Bow Setups, Arrows, with Bob Fromme. In this episode we talk with, Bob Fromme, archery expert and owner of Performance Archery in San Diego CA. Bob has an extreme amount of experience with bows and shooting. We talk through setups, arrows, tuning, broadheads and much more. You can see over 20 of Bobs hunts on his Bob Fromme Youtube Channel. Go Check it out for more from Bob.
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00:00:02:21 –> 00:01:11:29
200 inch mule deer, is there a secret combination for a 200 inch mule there? Adjustments Draw link on the bow keeps in the right position. Then the other one’s just even pressure, so I don’t punch it. Anything to do with Western big Games? Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Adam Bronson coming at you from Southern Utah as well as Chris Peterson. How you doing Chris? I’m doing great. Sounds like you’re doing pretty good. Chris. We saw some pictures from the wedding. Of course we’ve belabored that to death, but not his wedding. No. From Wyatt and Devon’s. I think it was at Devon’s wedding. Somehow you caught the garter and it came, it came right at me. Do you know what that means? Means everybody says that? Have you Googled that? Ever know what that means? Well, so he shot it, it went up. Oh, like a rubber band caught some wind and it just came right to me and I Was it outside? Yeah, that means it’s destiny. That’s what everybody said, huh? It’s is that the equivalent of a, of a bride catch in the bouquet? Yeah. I honestly don’t, I I’ve heard of this. Does that mean who’s next? Oh, the bouquet. When you catch it over your head, it’s you’re next it meets. Things are coming your way. Whether it’s good or bad, you’re probably gonna get hitched. Huh?
00:01:12:12 –> 00:02:30:28
Oh, that, so Chris, are you getting hitched? Where are we at on things? It’s probably not in the, in the not too distant future. Oh, that’s very vague. Not very vague. Is that a double negative? Not in the not too distant. I don’t know what that meant. Well, what he’s trying to do is big. Keep everybody happy. One invert person. I want these guys to quit talking about it and I want my girlfriend to be happy. Oh, geez. Alright, alright. Alright. Let’s talk about archery hunting. Bronson. We got some archery hunt. Oh geez. Here we go. Here we go. It’s mid-August. And of course I think the only state, well I’m, California’s been hunting for a month. They’ve been hunting thingss, but they’ve been killing stuff. But Nevada archery antelope and archery deer up and going and Utah’s right behind ’em. Starting this weekend, the 15th of August. And it’s smashing grab time. I guess it’s shooting bows. Taking off field points, putting on broad heads, fine tuning and all that stuff with kids, us and our kids. Carter. Well, fortunately my bow’s hitting right where it was, you know, with I need to shoot more. But man, these kids, like, I wake up this morning at Ashley. She’s not even got an archer tech, right? She’s 13. Your brother, her brother do. Yeah, she does. Technically she can shoot her deer with a bow this weekend, but she’s gonna be more of a muzzle rifle hunter.
00:02:31:09 –> 00:03:39:03
And so she’s more excited. They are, Hey dad, I, I can’t wait for Saturday, you know, and it’s just, I love it. I love it. She’s hold, all she’s doing is holding the quiver. She just wants to, she wants to glass with Sean. Good. She’s got her vinyls tripod. Everything’s set out. So anyway, it is that time of year. Yeah, of course. The, the elk and deer, we kind of mentioned deer, but it’s elk and deer and it’s so hot in Utah and it’s been that way for three weeks. The spike and cows are gonna be pounding the water. Yeah. But so are big bulls and it’s August 15th and they haven’t moved to Rutt. I mean, get ready. I’m telling you there’s gonna be some big bulls gull in Utah this year. A a get ready. It’s a great atler growth for elk in Utah. B, there has been no rain and it’s early. It’s August 15th is the earliest start. They’re not starting to roam and rutt like they can the 2020 second or later. Yeah, you got a week or maybe 10 days. So anybody that owns those fusions, they’re getting their, their phone’s vibrating with instant uploads of photographs on water holes. And that’s all legal in Utah. And you know, people are getting fired up for Saturday. Well, we’re fired up and I got mostly just regular cameras and I’m fired up.
00:03:39:03 –> 00:04:50:24
Like mainly, not that I got 200 inch deer to hunt, just buck down with their kids. Pretty close. Pretty close Bronson? No, no. 13 inch G fours. Let me just add it up for you. 26 inch. Get out your calculator. I do. 26. Where are we talking about? Five. 11.5. And maybe his G two’s slightly weak. Let’s call it a 16 and a half. Yeah, I gave him 17. Okay. 18 and a half inches of mass. Two and a half inch I guard. Where am I wrong? Where am I off? 24 and a half inch inside. I don’t know what that adds up to, but it’s gotta be bend nineties maybe a little more. We’ll see. We’ll see if I ever get the chance to find out. Well here you are on a general unit by yourself. No other people. Cameras in sight until until Saturday. You might wanna be in cocktail thousand. A thousand people show up Saturday. Everything changes. That’s right. The real world. That’s why there’s old beer. That’s why I am pretty much hunting with my boy. ’cause standards are a lot more reasonable and fun. And, and then stuff’s gonna happen. I’m gonna, I like watching people and it’s gonna be fun. It’s, you’ve got one of your boys. Sean’s Well, Sean’s one. You’re gonna a glass for me. You’re sitting in the blind with Justin. Well Justin’s never shot it with Bow just like my boy Ty.
00:04:50:27 –> 00:05:54:28
It’s like they need you. You have to have some whispering going on. Yes. They see movement in the brush. They’re gonna want to start drawing back and hold like it’s Yes. Just talk ’em through the wait. They’re not going there. Be some dude in southern Utah. A gorilla suit coming through the bush. You know, you just want to, oh, hold on, hold on. That’s right. Make sure your target, remember Hunter Safety. Anyway, they’re excited. But anyway, a lot of good stuff. There’s some big bucks being killed in Nevada. Wasn’t a great antler growth for deer in Nevada. However, we’ve heard of several 200 inch deer. Got pictures of ’em. Congratulations. What an amazing accomplishment to some of these guys that are knocking down a few great bucks. It has been slightly on the slow side. Yeah, it is. And it will be. It’s, we’ve got a few good ones, but yeah, elk are incredible over there. Kind of crazy how that works. Anyway, so yeah, what else we got? There’s archery, hunt start. I mean this is it. This is what we’ve been waiting for. What about, well anyway, I don’t want to talk on a downer about like New Mexico coming out in 14 day quarantine. I had either. However, I have heard there’s no way to, there’s ways around so don’t sweat it everybody. Alright.
00:05:55:03 –> 00:07:12:14
Well brought some, well we thought partly because of this and where we are and that, you know, some states are opening up, some are coming, it may be late for some people, but there’s a lot of states that in the next two or three weeks, you know, September 1st ish is a big month. First or second I think Colorado, Wyoming, a lot of other states. First week or so and, and Montana opening up. So we thought would, hey, we need to get somebody on that can really talk with us about, you know, getting dialed in with your bow set up. Whether it be from starting with a bow, an arrow and everything set up to tuning the one you got if you tweak something or it’s not shooting right. Or whatever. And so we thought of Bob Fromm, you know, he’s a good dude. He is been in the industry forever, absolutely ever. He’s been there, done that. He’s a hardcore hunter as well as has an incredible pro shop and sales Bos works on him, knows, knows them inside and out for being a based outta California. Pretty impressive. He’s unbelievable. Yeah. Super good resource. We’re gonna give him a call and I think everybody could learn a little something from Bob. He’s just one of those kind of guys. Let’s get him holler. Hey guys. Bobby, how are ya? Doing? Good. Doing good. Good, good.
00:07:12:17 –> 00:08:18:14
On a good day, actually, my day off in between all the, all the madness that’s been going on, getting guys wanting to buy a lot of gear before the hunting season, thank goodness. Yeah. We always wait till the last minute. Well, you know, you never know what’s, what’s going this kind of crazy years as you as we all know. Yeah. All the covid stuff. It’s like, okay, you know, we got closed down, you know, for, shoot, I don’t know, six weeks. But you know, I, I basically had all my guys on furlough for six weeks, kinda the end of March through April. And I went in every day though to kind of take care of my baby that I’ve been working on for 40 years, you know. Yeah. Make sure it stays alive. And that’s what Adam and I were saying is we’re gonna, yeah. We, we’d ride our bikes to work and sneak in if we have to. Yeah. So I just was in every day and just made appointment only, you know, one guy at a time and, you know, sold stuff to, you know, get customers that wanted stuff and Yeah. Try to pay some bills. ’cause they’re, they stack up no matter what. That’s right. Well, that’s partly what prompted our, our call to you today is we’re thinking, hey, you know, even there’s a couple states that have kicked off with their archery seasons.
00:08:18:17 –> 00:09:28:24
A lot of ’em are here to come in the next two to three weeks. And so Yeah. If somebody’s looking to buy a brand new setup and all that, well you couldn’t tell ’em it’s too late to do that. But, you know, we’re, it, it isn’t, but but also for the guy that are just, maybe they’re switching sites, switching releases, switching broadheads, all the different things that, you know, the factors within archery that can make a bow shoot differently. We thought, you know, you being, we’ve known you for forever, Bob, you know, decades. I know we talked, so, you know, from a hunter standpoint, we’ve talked to you about hun and then obviously from a guy in the industry in terms of, you know, the actual equipment. You know, he just was a good fit. So we appreciate you taking time today. Yeah. And I knew, I knew you back when I was 12 years old. Of course you knew. You know, my dad and you guys go well yeah. I remember the first year your dad sent me a, I think it was a postcard with him when he was skinny and young of a bull that he shot in the Gila in New Mexico with his muzzle loader and he was starting this hunt service. Yeah. And at that, and God, what year was that? Was that like 21 or 20 years? Yeah, years ago. It was 96. And so winter 95, 2 96. 24.
00:09:28:27 –> 00:10:31:01
24 years ago. Yeah. And that bull went like 3 77. And that was back then when we didn’t really, nobody really scored much back then. I mean that was, you know, it was a big old straight up six point well tail bull that I don’t know. Of course he was always passionate about elk and Yeah. And that fed it. Of course you killed. Yeah. So you were, how old were you then? You were teenagers? I was 20, 21 years old. 21 years old. Oh wow. So you’re like 45, you’re how old? Yeah, 45. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Well, he’s closer to, he’s closer to 50 than 40 since we’re flushing all this out. I’d give anything to be 45 again and know what I know now. Well you and that’s what Adam and I were talking about and we didn’t wanna belabor it too, too, you know, too long with, you know, the details. But you’ve been in this for so long and had so many hunts under your belt. We could spend 14 hours on this podcast just talking about your experiences, you know, and, and, and whatnot. And so anyway, that’s kind of what prompted this call is there’s very few guys out there with the, the length of time and the resume that you have.
00:10:31:22 –> 00:11:24:11
I think, you know, the stuff that to keep, you know, you, you know, say we’re gonna try to get, you know, what we can in an hour that people might get something out of. I would say for sure some of the hunting planning, preparing, you know, those kind of things. You know, going to the right places at the right times, you know, and that’s obviously something you guys help people with, you know? Yeah. It’s huge. And then, and then equipment, even if, you know, they’re not buying gear, always trying to improve their setups and their shooting. The biggest the biggest increase in accuracy is always with the shooter. And very few people put enough effort into their form, you know, and that’s really, really key. They just wanna buy the fastest, they just wanna buy the fastest bow and have it make up for in in, in deficiencies or deficiencies, I guess. Yeah. Well, and I’ll, and I’ll ask that and then in their defense, so there aren’t a lot of places to seek out good, you know, like instruction and somebody to coach you and teach you.
00:11:25:04 –> 00:12:25:09
But most people, you know, even if it’s available, they don’t put much effort into that and they just wanna shoot, you know, punch the trigger a little bit and, you know, grab the bow however they feels comfortable and, and then, you know, sit it in, shoot it 20, you know, 20 euros a week here and there and, and then have their bow sided in at 60 or a hundred and think it’s gonna hit there when they put the pin there. You know, like shooting a long range rifle. Yeah, yeah. And shooting that along, like, like shooting a long range rifle. Just ’cause the thing thousand yards out of the box or whatever they’re saying now, doesn’t mean you can shoot it that far at an animal, you know, or should be. Yeah. Oh, and I think that part of that is, you know, there’s a, there’s a, the form and you can’t really do that over a podcast, although you can Sure discuss it and we can, we can talk about it a little bit. No, I, but I think also just like the, like product selection, axle to axle, what does all of this mean? Why, why, why a short one? You know, short bow versus a long, but why, you know, there’s just a lot of different options out there and a lot of combinations of gear and whatnot.
00:12:25:12 –> 00:13:22:01
And, and so maybe just preface, you know, a little bit like Yeah, if you, if we were dude walking into your store, you know, today and said, I wanna get into Beau hunting, I wanna, I wanna Bo Hunt, how do you, what do you first say, all right, what do you I’m six foot tall and 180 pounds, but where do you, where do you start? And as we, before we get into, you know, the tuning and all, where do you, where do you start? How do you start with a guy or, or maybe a guy’s shot BS before and he is just looking to upgrade. It’s been six, eight years since he’s done it and, and he’s How do you proceed? Yeah, well I do first is ask questions. So you’re directing information direct, you know, that’s, that’s gonna help them and not just what you think is the best thing. And price point of course is important. So yeah, you can just start off, I guess the question would be like, hey, when you, what’s the best way for somebody to start bow hunting? You know? And I’ll just say, well here’s what we do. We get, you know, somebody that comes into the shop, obviously approach shop’s gonna be the best place to go and some are, you know, are better than others and you know, but it’s still gonna be by far your best way to get started. Right.
00:13:22:04 –> 00:14:17:15
You know, and then here’s the questions I would ask and I’ll go into that and size somebody up by looking at ’em. Ask ’em if they got shoulder, you know, issues. Let’s see, you know, if they’re young or older, weight draw weight, you know, and I’ll identify that and I’ll set up a bow that’s, you know, a couple bows that’ll be in their price point. And it doesn’t have to be, you know, weight, carbon bow. If the guy’s coming in and wants to spend 500 bucks, I’m not gonna, you know, show something like that. I’m gonna show him a couple really good options in that 500 range and then show him the benefits of something that’s in an $800 package and why it would be better if he can move up 300 bucks, you know? Yeah, yeah. And not, not have to upsell, you know, maybe, you know, upgrade it in six months or a year if he’s really into it, you know, and give him the option. At least, you know, because most guys can spend more than than they say they can at first, you know, but you, you can identify it. But if I got a guy that’s in the military and, you know, he’s 22 years old and he’s married and got a kid already. Yeah. You know, I’m gonna be conscious of his budget and not, you know, try to get him in a position.
00:14:17:15 –> 00:15:23:23
Well and with and with, it’s not good for him. And, and with that, yeah. You know, obviously the more you spend, the better product you end up with, but how is it, is it exponentially better product? Is it slightly better product? I mean, you know, or, or I mean is definitely, well that’s a fine line. Here’s a fine line between Yeah. You’ve had setups that when you point the arrow there and you go like that thing’s going there, you know, it’s accurate. Right. Yeah. So I don’t ever give up, you know, a forgiving balance of, of, you know, of accuracy and performance to get the bow to where it’s good, you know, accurate under pressure and you’re confident with it. Right. So that’s a combination of a lot of things. But yeah, like I can go into a lot of de detail when you ask about that if far, you know, like if somebody’s six foot three, you know, I’m not gonna sell them, you know, above this is probably, you know, 29 or 30 inches axle to axle. Well you mentioned that earlier ’cause Yeah, my boy, my boy, I was talking to Jason about this day. I got him one of these hoyts, I can’t remember the model right now, I’m sorry, but it was one of those youth bow 15 pounds. It goes 15 to 70 and it goes like 19 inches draw maybe to 30 to 30. And and it’s maxed down.
00:15:23:26 –> 00:16:31:29
He’s six three now. He’s 15. He probably, oh, he, he does. And I, and it was snuck up on us too late. We started shooting and I’m like, wow, we should have done this. Should have done this, sir. But he’s a young kid, he’s all legs and arms. He’s just a gangly, big gangly thing. He’s not shooting 70 pounds is the problem. But, but he’s maxed it out on drawing. It’s maxed out. Yeah. So, and it’s pinching you. I can see, well this bow is, and it’s gonna be less forgiving ’cause it’s a short bow. Yeah, it is. Especially for, I shoot a 33 and a half or something, whatever. It’s long, long, you know, I’m, I’m pretty long dry winked. I got a 30 and a half or or 31 is what I like it. Yeah. So I have a long bow and anyway, talk. Why, what, what are the difference? Why shooting? Yeah. Why does he need to change posts? Tell us. I mean, just back to the mechanics of it. Yeah, yeah. So there’s, there’s a lot of different reasons and you know, and some of them are at 10 yards aren’t as obvious as they will be at, at six, you know, 60 yards and six months, you know. So we try to give, you know, the guy, the, the forward view of that too, and not just what feels good at, at 10 yards. And that’s usually where we’re starting ’em.
00:16:31:29 –> 00:17:40:04
But yeah, you want something to string angle, you know, the longer bows are gonna, the longer the riser, the more stable, the better the bows gonna aim as a general rule. And if your string angle is really tight, it’s hard to get a repeatable anchor point, which your anchor point being repeatable is gonna make, you know, turn into to rear side accuracy. And also the, the tighter the string angle is the more, the less forgiveness it’s gonna be to, you know, hand torque and arrow tuning, stuff like that. So, you know, a super long bow though, for somebody that’s short and they’re on the bottom of a cam, you know, a drawing length adjustment, it’s not gonna be, it’s not gonna give ’em good, you know, speed trajectory always plays into, you know, part of your accuracy. You don’t wanna sacrifice, you know, everything for, for flat trajectory. So you wanna have the right balance of, you know, air, weight, speed, all those things that, you know, end up having a really good for forgiving good, you know, fun to shoot setup that’s gonna be, that’s gonna be solid and dependable in a hunting situation and not just on the 3D course or been in backyard, you know, in the summertime with your short sleeve shirt on, you know, at a marked distance.
00:17:41:06 –> 00:18:58:12
So yeah, I mean it’s a lot of it’s based on, on experience, you know, with thousands of customers and every size, shape and form you can imagine in 40 years. And tell, tell us about carbon bows versus non-carbon. Why, why to go one versus the other besides money? If money, yeah. Well there’s a big, there’s a benefit to the carbon. So like if you take, say you take a, a Hoyt carbon bow hoy and a hoy aluminum riser bow, which, you know, there’s one other company that makes, you know, PSC makes a decent a carbon bow now too. But until, you know, two years ago that pretty much Hoy was the only one and they’ve really got it perfected the best I feel. And Hoy and the PSC are pretty nice now, but let’s just say Hoyt because that’s the one that most people are familiar with. And then, and that’s the one that most shops, you know, carry and have for years. But you can get the exact same. So say an RX four ultra, which is what I shoot, you know, it’s a 34 inch axle axle bow. It weighs, you know, right at four pounds and you take an Axis Ultra, which is the aluminum version of it, exact same dimensions and you know everything about it. Cams, limbs, geometry, you know, grip brace, height, all that stuff is exactly the same with the aluminum bow limb pockets.
00:18:58:12 –> 00:20:02:10
All those things add up into performance and accuracy. The aluminum bow is about three quarters of a pound heavier, so it’s noticeably heavier in your hand. So the carbon bow would loaded up it’s 25%, right? 20%. Yeah. So it’s, that’s, it doesn’t sound like a lot like you put three quarters of a pound in your backpack, you’re like, you’ll carry but in a more water or you, you carry whatever and you know, your tripod or whatever, but you add it into the bow and, and then, you know, the, the fact that it, you have the, the car carbon has kind of a cool feel to it, you know, it’s gonna less absorbs vibration. It’s a absorbing material carbon by, by nature. So it, it actually has kind of a cool feel to it. But it also in, in, in cold weather, like say somebody’s sitting in a tree stand and they’re hunting, you know, back in Iowa or you know, Illinois or whatever, and late November or Alberta, which is really damn cold and I’ve been there November, it really sucks. Yeah. Sitting in a tree stand for a week with a, with a aluminum bow bow in your hand, your hands, you know, it’s hard enough to shoot and I shot fingers for 30 some years now I’m shooting release.
00:20:02:10 –> 00:21:10:05
But you still need your hands to really, you know, especially your release your shot, you know, your finger hands to actually release the bow, right? But so you get the, you get the warmth of the carbon, you get the lightness, which is one of the main benefits and you know, those all equate into, well, is it worth 500 bucks? You know, so if a guy’s trying to save $500 on a setup, you can buy basically aluminum bow with a nice drop away rest and a pretty good site and stabilizer and you know, basically be, have the aluminum bow set up with what your carbon bow would cost, you know, you know, net. But, you know, I ask guys, a lot of times I’m like, you know, when they’re a guy that I know can afford a better bow and I’m like, Hey, let’s just shoot ’em, you know, and, and see what you like to feel of and what what’s gonna, you know, work better for you. And here’s what I want to, you know, interject though a lot of times is if you just go by the 10 yard, you know, rule, what people are basically judging most bows on in most pro shop situations is that they’re going to go by what draws smooth and what, you know, feels low recoil and low, low, low, you know, vibration.
00:21:10:26 –> 00:22:20:24
And a lot of the bows are, are excellent in that field, like the new Matthews Vxr and they, they’re really low recoil, excellent bow, we sell tons of them. But what I will also interject into somebody that’s shooting it against San Ho, somebody that, that I see that wants to use, he’s pretty good shot and he’s gonna put emphasis on long range shooting, you know, maybe in a 3D you know, situation or maybe he wants to reach out and hunt, you know, mule deer and, and be able to have a, a long effective range. Then I will give him some of the benefits of say, Hoyt, which maybe has a little tiny bit more recoil. Maybe not, it’s pretty close. But there’s some really good tunable features in, in the Hoyt bows that, you know, they’ve engineered target accuracy into all their high-end hunting bows. So I’ll, you know, interject a little bit of that so somebody has some more information if I feel like they can actually benefit from it or, you know, digest it, you know, and not confuse ’em too much. You know, so I just go by, by the, by the, the customer, you know exactly what I think is gonna be best for him and give him the most amount of information, the easiest way for him to, you know, that he can actually apply it and then let them make a good decision.
00:22:20:24 –> 00:23:34:10
Whether it’s aluminum bow that’s $400, you know, four $50 package bow or if it’s gonna be a $1,600 carbon, you know, white bow out out the door. It all depends on the person. And, and just give ’em, you know, like I said, options with, with good solid information that’s factual and not totally opinionated, you know, but I also can base a lot of my opinion on fact because shot a lot of bow, you’ve got thousands, you’re out too thousands, thousands of customers. And I’ve got really good employees that are passionate about archery and you know, are doing it every day and shooting. And that’s the only kind of guys I hire. And then I train the heck out of ’em. I’ve got really good general manager, you know, fa Pittman, that’s really helped me a lot. And so we, we have an excellent crew, you know, at at performance archery and we do everything we can to make everybody a better archer. Not just sell ’em equipment, but selling, selling ’em the right equipment is, is really important to, to the foundation of their shooting that, that the bow matches them. If they’re, you know, if they’re six foot, you know, three, I’m not gonna be showing them 30 inch axle axle bows unless they’re, they demand it and they’re like a tree stand ground blind guy only. And most of those bows are gonna max out at 30 inch draw length anyway.
00:23:34:10 –> 00:24:42:05
If they’re that kind of axle to axle length, then know a lot of times if a guy’s six three, he’s gonna be, you know, a little bit over 30 inches, depend on the arm length of course. But what I’m gonna be more into the, you know, 32 to 34 inch, 35 inch bows are gonna be better with the string angles and everything else to give ’em a good anchor point and repeatable. What about some of the accessories? Like are you a fan of having, you know, the quiver attached to the bow or not? I know that’s out there and, and rests and different things, but maybe, you know, talk about some of the accessories. Yeah, I mean you wanna dial it in. I mean, it’s like a, it’s like a race car, right? So I mean, I, I’ll I’ll equate it to that. Your, your bow, the arrow rest is, is the, is the, the carburetor of the engine, right? So you need a, a quality arrow rest that’s going to be dependable, easy to adjust and gonna be durable and stay, you know, functional for through all kinds of different hunting applications. So your air rest has gotta be solid. It’s gotta be adjustable, it’s gotta give you clearance. You know, it’s gotta, you know, be able to shoot it for years and not have to worry about it. Be fragile. So we’re gonna do the l recipe.
00:24:42:09 –> 00:25:49:19
The first thing you almost all of our high-end bows are, are gonna be, you know, drop away. Whether it’s a QAD or a hams ski. Those are, you know, the two that we pretty much, you know, put on the bows. Now we used to, you know, do trophy taker pretty, pretty good for a while and it’s quality’s changed a little bit over the years, but, and then whisker biscuits, they’re bulletproof, you know, and super easy, you know, for new people they’re inexpensive to add to a package. They’re really dependable. They seem to tune well, they’re safe, you know, you don’t have to worry about walking ’em up, you’re coming out. It always felt weird to me to shoot, you know, the veins dragging through there, but I don’t think it matters. But it, it’s just a metal, well it’s like shooting through blinds if the mesh is tied. Yeah. It’s like, do you shoot the me blind shoot you shoot through mes it mentally it what bother me, Bobby, do you shoot through mesh? Does, yeah. I mean shooting, shooting the fletching, you know, through a whisker biscuit, you know, if it, if you’re got the thing indexed correctly, cock feather up, you know, all that stuff. It, it slows it down a little bit. But there’s, there’s always trade offs on almost everything. Yeah. You know, like, but at the end of the day, the whisker biscuit is a good choice.
00:25:49:25 –> 00:26:51:22
Like it’s, it is, you know, for like the right guy. I mean I, I don’t put any of them, you know, on a carbon bow, but I think for like your, your mid-range bow and a good place to start, it is a quality rest, you know? And yeah, the arrow’s not gonna pop out. They’re not gonna forget. It’s quiet. It’s not, it’s quiet. They’re not fumbling it around and hitting their wrist. How about, how about, have you ever used toothbrushes for rest, cut off a toothbrush and glue it to your riser? Because I bro no, I, I’m serious. Huh? This was when we were kids and you’re just modifying No, I’m serious. We, we had Recurve Recurves and you know, you had a shelf right Bob Tradition, they just have like leather, leather shelf. It was a plastic little, it was like a guitar shit, shit sticking out there. But I remember a friend of mine, he had, he, his rest bluff, so he took a toothbrush and cut off just the, and stuck it on there and glued it there. And that’s what he said it on. I’m dead serious how they killed anything, Bobby. But how you guys killed anything back then was, have you ever seen a bow with a toothbrushes a rest? No, we weren’t that innovative. California kids aren’t as innovative as you guys up there.
00:26:52:19 –> 00:27:46:04
Well it was just, it also might be a, one of the reasons that dentists do really well in Utah because you guys are using your toothbrushes for a, I don’t know, but I have a friend. I mean, no, he’s, he’s no longer with us, but he, he, he shot it with the toothbrush on he, his recurve 45 pound. Yeah, that makes, that makes sense. I mean you kinda count it to the side. But anyway, I’m that one, that one didn’t catch on the whisk biscuit caught off. Was it with the brass, the, the brass sites that were on an angle? ’cause it wasn’t tuned right. And they were just like, well it’s twenties this and 30 is even further up left. Yeah. And the brass rests. That kind of was a little spring with a coil and you’d pull back sometimes your air would get Wow. The springy rest. Yeah, that think terrible. And it was, and I’m like, how can you ever drop? Then it would come off and you, I hear trying to put it back up on there. I’d try to put hot glue on it and then it would grip. Anyway we’ve come. But the bottom, bottom, the bottom line is a whisker biscuit or a fall away. You’re, you’re doing either or and think depending on situations good of both of them. Yeah.
00:27:46:08 –> 00:28:46:23
And then as far as, you know, like a quiver on the bow, I mean I, you know, I’m always trying to improve my setup, you know, matter what and get my accuracy better and, and I use a tight spot quiver, which is probably the, you know, the lowest profile where your balances on your bow has a lot to do with how it shoots at long ranges. You know, you see all your target guys with, you know, stable long stabilizers and sidebars and there’s a reason they do that because it makes the bow shoot really well. But yeah, I’ve shot with the quiver on, you know, I like to shoot with it on a lot in case I have to in a hunting situation, that’s me. But if I can take it off, like I got on a, a nice buck last year in a snowstorm in Colorado in eastern Colorado right before Thanksgiving. And it was blowing and cold and windy and crappy and we had a pretty nice buck. We were on, you know, it was like a 1 1 90 class deer, you know, a really good buck and you know, crawling out in the open. And like, I took the quiver off because I knew it was gonna be windy and we had kind of a crosswind the way we came in on him and, and ended up making a long shot at him after we spooked one of the smaller bucks.
00:28:46:27 –> 00:29:41:03
I took a longer shot than I wanted to, but nailed him good, you know, right through both longs, watched him go a hundred yards to go down. But I took the quiver off to shoot because I know it, it’s gonna be a little bit less of a sail. I’m gonna be able to aim better. But like I, if I shoot a broadhead, you know, it shoots pretty good with the quiver on. I try to tune it, but if I take it off, it’s, it seems like it puts a little less torque on the bow. So it’s, well it’s not, not as sensitive to your hand grip and everything else. Well, and, and I’m always looking at it like you’ve got, let’s say you’ve got a quiver that has five arrows in it and you get down to two arrows. Is that gonna affect it a little bit? Does that happen? Right. Well, I mean, stuff gets from time to time maybe not what you tell me, Bobby, you have a seven arrow and I get down to one. I’ve had that happen. Okay. Does it shoot different, will it shoot different? I mean it’s weighted different. Yeah, sure. It’s gonna feel different. The vibration is gonna be different. Well, it depends on how well you shoot, right? If you’re Randy Elmer yeah, you’re gonna tell, what I do is I usually tell a guy put three, three to four arrows in five.
00:29:41:13 –> 00:30:43:00
You’re always gonna have at least one out we love. And then say you get that makes sense. That makes sense. But we love, yeah, so four four max, the law of averages kind of in between. Yeah. So go get a, get a, you know, so it’s gonna, it’s gonna be like an inch one way or the other depending on how well you shoot. And some people can’t tell an inch group at, you know, four or 50 yards. Yeah. So the the biggest thing, like I said, is getting blow this that, you know, is repeatable setup’s, got the right spine, arrows good, you know, arrow weight. And then we get into that. That’s a whole other thing. You know, people have gone nuts on heavy arrows and stuff and, and I’m not an an advocate of one way or, you know, one end of the other. I like what’s the best all around balance. It gives me a good trajectory and it’s gonna penetrate well and, but as far as, you know, a, a good setup for, for each person, you know, they, weight is, is definitely the spine’s number one thing that you would do is getting in the arrow spine to the bow. And always, if anything being a tiny bit on the stiff side is better than too weak, too whip. Yeah. Otherwise you got whip right, your arrow whip and Yeah.
00:30:43:00 –> 00:31:49:22
Well if it, it start flexing too, too much, then, then your broadheads get sensitive. Yeah. If you get, you know, over spine and the, then it, then the arrows actually will, you know, will kick into the bow. If it’s over stiff and then it ends up, you know, not it’ll, it brought us a steer off to the left, you know, so if you’re right-handed, but you know, you wanna have the right balance. What seems to work, what I’ve seen get the ultimate, you know, trajectory for me, I shoot a lot of different arrows every year and I’ve done four fletch, three fletch, different broadheads, you know, I like to tune my bows for, for fixed blade broadheads. So if I’m shooting elk or moose or grizzly or big, big bores, I’m, I’m leaning towards a, a fixed blade. And that’s gonna be, to me is the ultimate to tune on a bow is, is is if it shoots fixed blade broadheads, you know, consistently accurate and close to my field points, you know, out at, at distance, you know, it will then it will shoot the expandables, then it’ll, yeah, you can shoot anything, you know, so I start, you know, with a paper tune and then I’ll maybe bear shaft my own boat. But it, you know, if you bear shaft to test your bow and you don’t and you don’t have good form, you’re torquing the bow, you, it’s a nightmare.
00:31:49:22 –> 00:33:03:22
So we don’t really advocate that too much unless somebody’s at that level and they wanna do it themselves. We’ll get a paper too and get it shot in and we’ll, we’ll, we’ll broadhead shoot their, their bows, you know, with fletching at a, at a, at a broadhead target in our, in our target, in our, in our range with, you know, assistance and we’ll have somebody help tune it and we’ll put out a, you know, a broadhead target only. But what I’ve found is, you know, let’s say the average guy is five 10 to six one and he’s gonna be shooting a 28 to 29 and a half inch draw and he’s gonna be shooting, you know, 65 to 70 pounds, 400 grain overall arrow is gonna be, you know, kind of on the lighter side, a small diameter arrow will also penetrate better if you have a little less weight. I like a 4 25 to four 50 and on. And I’ll have, I’ve got two different arrows that I have set up, you know, I should victory VAP peak TKOs end up fletching up at, they’re slightly heavier than a standard VAP elite 300 spine. They end up the TKOs end up at like four 50 with a 50 grain insert, a hundred grain head, three Fletch, you know, arrow. I like a three inch si flex leg silent night vein with a medium helical. That’s been the best vein for me.
00:33:03:22 –> 00:34:23:19
Overall, they stick, they don’t pop off the arrows easily. They’re easy to, to get stick on, they’re good. They give you really good stability with broadheads, they get a little twist on it. So I get a rotation grim reaper inch and three sixteens. I I’ve shot engine three sixteens, three bladed heads for, you know, 40 years off and on between Rocky Mountain, thunderheads, you know, a bunch of different companies. That just seems to be for me, my go-to con comfort zone that I know works on, you know, 10, 10 foot round bears, 65 inch moose, 250 pound boars or you know, whatever it, it, you know, it goes right through everything. Two together, two builder. Is there a secret combination for a 200 inch mil Yeah. Rifle, you know, like you guys, you know no, not figured out too. No, I know you guys kill a bunch of big ones with your bow too for sure. But yeah, the, I’ve got, I’ve got one of those but I, I like for deer, like on softer animals like deer, I, I love a, an expandable for the accuracy and, and the, and the hemorrhage that it causes and the penetration that you can, you know, is more than sufficient on, on stuff that like say antelope deer cheap caribou. I have no problem shooting a, like a grim reaper, three blade inch and three eights cut, you know, broad head through those.
00:34:23:20 –> 00:35:16:04
I’ve had really good success on those Ibex and Spain stuff in Africa, but on stuff like elk, oak, elk, moose, yeah. Yeah, i, I, you get a quartering shot and I need to come from one end to the other. I shot a seven and a half foot bear and, and a BC and long range actually. And I hit him quartering away. I had a long shot a quartering away on the 15th day of a 14 day hunt and I hit him right in front of the hip as he turned a little bit and it came all the way through and popped out, you know, between his shoulder and his neck, you know, the full length of a seven and a half foot whatever, whatever their, whatever their body size is. I dunno, it’s not seven and a half foot, but it was a lot. And you know, there just disappeared up in him and he went, you know, down the hill a hundred yards and was toast. And I might not have got all the way into the good stuff if I was shooting, you know, a two inch cut, you know, pretty square blade. So what were, what was your setup on that bear? What was it?
00:35:18:16 –> 00:36:36:22
I was shooting fingers then that was like around 2000 when I shot that my mountain grizzly, I, I was shooting a, I think I was shooting about a, I was shooting fingers, so I was shooting 74 pound Matthew solo cam at that time. It was a great bow. And I had about a 475 grain total arrow with, with a 1 25 grain head on there and an inch and three 16 broad head and then yeah, went one end to the other. Geez. Yeah. But now I’m shooting release and I’m shooting left-handed instead of Right-hand. I changed stuff up. Oh yeah. Is that, yeah, your eyes, is that because your eyes changed or were you always, were you always left eye should have been left-handed or left eye shared from the start? Yeah, I can’t, I don’t know, I probably equally crappy with both sides so I just, no, I shot fingers for forever. I mean you were, if you, if you shot a release Oh yeah, no, when, when I started You were a sissy boy man. So I shot fingers 10 ago probably till 10. I was, I was taught you calloused up. I just, I mean that was, anyway, you have a, you have a, we had a tab too, a little vel vel, those little Saunders brown ones. The that’s what I shot a little brown tab forever and it’s probably been 10 years. Yeah, about 10 years exactly.
00:36:36:25 –> 00:37:43:00
So not that long since I started shooting released. So I shot fingers for years and then the bows were longer and high brace height and wheel bows and that’s ’cause they made it that way. Then as the bows got shorter and, you know, higher lead off and lower brace height and they weren’t conducive to shooting well with fingers, you know. And so I basically got to a point once I had like, you know, I finished the North American 28 and then before they threw the tule elk in there. I’m like, okay, it’s time for me to change, you know, I’m not shooting these newer, newer bows that, you know, that we’re actually selling. Well they’re just, they’re not conducive to good arrow, you know, finger shooting. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna change to a release and I’d shot, you know, heavy bows for 30 plus years. And when I went to Cape Buffalo hunting, I was shooting 95 pound bows for a year each time I was shot two buffalo. So my neck and shoulder and scapula and everything were kind of overbuilt. I was pretty much lopsided from that and playing competitive tennis for, you know, my whole life. Not well, you know, played in college and played my whole life, but not competitive my whole life. Yeah. But I played, you know, everything one side basically.
00:37:43:02 –> 00:38:43:21
And so I was, when I went to, you know, shoot a lot, my neck would kind of get locked up a little bit. I also, the main reason was I, I ended up, you know, shot fingers and when I went to shoot a release, I was just kind of had a little target panic and I shot handhelds and did some stuff and I just, at the end of the day I said, you know, one of my friends Jerry Morrison that I did video stuff with and another friend of mine, Darren Collins, he was a really good shot. They’re both right-handed and they switched to left and started some stuff on to get rid of that, to get rid of that target panic and, and well the other side of your brain, I guess you have, you know, like kind of a controlling hyper side of your brain. And, and so, you know, I’m kind of a, a personality, a little bit hyper, whatever you wanna call it. Squirrelly at times been kind of, you know, I relate put a lot, I i we relate to that. Do we need to be left hand shooters? Yeah, that’s what I’m wondering. That’s why, that’s why I’m asking these probing questions. I wondering, I’m doing it all. I could only imagine myself trying to pull back even a 50 pound bow left, left, you can’t even imagine.
00:38:43:27 –> 00:39:34:10
Well, and you start, you know, your demand excellence from yourself and then you start, you know, getting pun, you know, punched you with the trigger and now I know how to shoot way better. And so it helped, you know, the fact that I didn’t have all that bad muscle memory, I mechanically rid of sense. Yeah. Mechanically you’re kind of hitting reset. It’s kinda like, well Carter and I talked to people Yeah. And everybody did. We all started, we talked to get rid of bad habits because Right. Hannah, I I know how to, I know how I shoot. Well you’re not gonna fix, its a little bit like optics. Jason and I are, we’re straight spotting scope guys. We we don’t, yeah, we, we don’t use, tried to force ourselves to do angled and it has a lot of benefits. You know, lower tripod, neck fatigue, all that right. We’ve tried ’em for about 30 minutes and we’re like, no thanks, we’re we’re, I don’t want to try to find a deer on a hillside that I can’t find it quick enough so I’m not patient enough to, to work at it. So it’s maybe the same principle. Yeah. We’re talking about. Yeah.
00:39:34:10 –> 00:40:37:16
So what I did is left-handed, I had zero, I was like a fresh slate so I didn’t have any bad habits, but I also had had zero muscle memory from shooting 30 some years fingers when I, you know, you create snow when you, you gonna shoot. And I, and I, I learned, I had panic a little bit, fingers and I shot like a clicker that was attached to your string into a little clickity thing on the, on the limb because obviously you’re not gonna shoot a clicker that goes over your broadhead, you know, like a target shooter recurve would do. But I, you know, I won four state broadhead championships and a lot of local, you know, 3D stuff. So I got to a pretty, you know, decent level where I could shoot well. But when I went to the release thing, it was just, you know, I wasn’t able to shoot comfortably. So I switched left-handed and the, the good part was I had zero muscle memory. The bad part is I had zero muscle memory it like writing bike and coordination. ’cause I’m not left-handed for anything. I can’t even write my name. I can’t even write my name left-handed, let alone have something with razor blades on. I can’t write it either. Yeah. So I went left hand it, you know, felt dorky, like just like when I started somebody out pretty much new in the store.
00:40:37:21 –> 00:41:34:18
So, you know, we do that a lot and you gotta really commit to this. It’s a, you gotta say I’m doing, I clear out the shop because I don’t know where this arrow’s going. My first shot left-handed would be hilarious. Yeah. It’s, it’s not for everybody. But, and I didn’t know if it was gonna work for me because I’d never done anything left-handed and I was able to close my right eye, my left eye’s not that much weaker than my right. So some people are really dominant on one side and they can’t close the other eye. So that, that, that puts you right out and then you gotta be open-minded enough to wanna be, to improve and, and it’s not gonna happen immediately. So to me it was like, here’s a new challenge. You know, I’ve done the 28, I wanna shoot good. I don’t, I’m not, I don’t like my accuracy at long range with fingers with these new bows. It’s not as good as I used to be and how good, as good as I wanna be. So I’m gonna put the commitment in at least give it a chance and back to where I could hold on the target and pull through the, the shot and I’ve shot like a hinge release and thumb buttons. And not that you can’t shoot an index finger release.
00:41:34:20 –> 00:42:34:24
Well ’cause a lot of guys can, if you’re kind of a mellow guy and you actually start out right and shorten it up and hook your finger around and use your back. But most people are gonna lengthen it out and put it on the end of their finger and squeeze it like they think they’re shooting a gun and they end up with all kinds of issues and especially under pressure, they can kind of control it on a target for a while. And when their buddies are shooting together with a 3D once in a while they’ll miss one and they think they need to practice more and that just makes more panic. And then when they’re hunting they’re, they’re all over the place and hitting stuff bad or missing them. So if you learn how to shoot right in the right form and, and just by dying a thumb release, like you watch somebody online that does it right and sells you a release and you, there’s good information online for sure, but nothing is going to substitute somebody sitting there and showing, making sure the release is adjusted properly for you, getting your back in the right position to pull through it. Your front arm, your bow arm has to be down and relaxed and solid for the pin to be steady so you can stay on the target long enough for the pull through the release. Right.
00:42:35:03 –> 00:43:28:11
And once you learn how to do all those stuff with things with the right adjustments, draw length on the bow peeps in the right position, the release is adjusted correctly. Somebody showed you how to get your, your, your foundation of your shot right. And pull through it. Then it’s mentally just duplicating that shot and just telling yourself a couple little simple things for me. It’s elbow which gets me into my back and, and transfers it into my elbow and I just start pulling up my back and then the other one’s just even pressure so I don’t punch it and then I just end up going right through the, to, you know, the shot and then yeah, putting more focus on, on on the actual shot execution and putting the pin on the target and trying to hit the target. If you try to hit the target, you don’t shoot the bow, right. If you shoot the bow right, you hit the target. So it’s, you know, the opposite of what people naturally do. So, and somebody can coach you and you’re open to it, you’ll get good. But if you just do the best you can, it makes archery, especially bow hunting, extremely, extremely difficult.
00:43:28:14 –> 00:44:27:25
And I think that’s the part I like about it is I shot, you know, some deer locally here, which we don’t have great deer hunting, but I shot a few deer with a rifle and at three and 400 yards and I didn’t even know what the hell I was doing, but I could kill ’em, you know, pretty much every time. And they didn’t even know I was in the zip code. Yeah. That’s why I started bow hunting and, and then it was like, okay, it’ll start out, you know, legal deer forking corn with a bow, I’m stoked, right. And then, or cow elk or whatever. And then I think you’re just as you, as you go depending on how you’re wired and what’s important to you. I love the meat, I utilize the meat. But I think the challenge of just getting bigger animals and exactly what you guys do, how hard you guys hunt and scout and put in for areas to try to kill really big deer because it’s way more difficult than shooting a small average one. You know? And that’s kind of the, the reward for doing it and it’s, you know, is, is the difficulty factor. And I think for me, I like hunting different species and going to different adventures. ’cause each hunt and place you go is an adventure and it’s not just about, you know, another species.
00:44:28:03 –> 00:45:30:06
It’s about the cool experience of a new area with, with a new animal and the challenges that animal has that puts towards you. I’m trying to figure them out and how to, you know, get inside their defense zone when you know there’s some kind of predator trying to eat ’em every day. Whether it’s a wolf mountain mine or you know, whatever, it’s coyotes and, you know, that’s kind of what’s driven me to, to, to try to, IM improve my shooting, you know, get bigger animals, try stay fitness, get shape, I can. Well you put so much, there’s so, so much going into getting a tag. And there’s so much that goes into, sometimes we’re booking hunts three or four years out, like as, you know, some of the better Outfitters in Canada, Alaska, whatever years that years out. And, and so it’s kind of, you’re putting, there’s also this aspect of having the right gear, having it set up right, you might have the right gear and it’s not set up right, but just having all the little details put together means a lot, especially when these hunts are A, they’re not cheap. B, they’re hard to come by. Yeah. I tell guys, I mean, if you don’t plan, you’re not, you’re never gonna just have these hunts happen. So planning them is super important.
00:45:30:10 –> 00:46:33:18
So, so like, you know, I’ve been, you know, with, with, you know, when, when your dad, we talked about it earlier, you know, Garth sent me a postcard 24 years ago, I think you said it was, yeah. And it was with him when he was skinny and young and good looking. And now he’s probably, you know, he’s just one of those, maybe one of those things. I mean, not he’s skinny, but he had a giant bowl of elk and, and I still remember the Gila of New Mexico and there’s, yeah, you want information, I’m gonna have this newsletter and Yeah. But you know, like I, I, I, I, I pay a hundred bucks to join, you know, for Epic every year. ’cause of our relationship for me to be able to talk to you and, and Adam when I want to. And you guys are always available and gimme great information. I totally value that network and information you guys have got, which is way more than I can have as far from a standpoint of what’s changing, what’s new, different areas. And I’ve got, you know, 20 and 30 years into some of these applications, you know, you’ve got a lot more money into the vested points that than Yeah. Yeah. So time look at, look, you’re, you, I mean, time again, we’re talking about my age’s, about your age valuable thing. Yeah.
00:46:33:18 –> 00:47:37:16
Let’s talk about, you know, and so, and, and, and, and now you’re looking, you’re probably looking at, okay, what am I gonna do for the, between now and the end? What, what do I want to do? How do I, these are important. Every hunt is super important. And I think, and I think like you, maybe you join for information, same thing with us to you. I’m thinking a I’m, I’m gonna want a co maybe even a couple of bows maybe. And I’m gonna be calling you because cut through the chase. I’m telling you like I’ve already, like, just for you telling me all this stuff and we talk about it on the podcast, this is your wheelhouse. All of these things. I, I, I’m, I mean, there was one little ask could list we on air, we could do, we could do a whole podcast on releases. I was gonna start asking some follow up questions, but like we could do that with everything we could do about Arrows and Fletching. We could do that about, you know, every aspect we’re talking about. There are a lot of different releases, but, but you know, whether it’s the trigger which I shoot just to each one the back be its own. Yeah. It could be its own, you know, category. Yeah. That’s way, that’s the way we’re looking at archery equipment When we have a question we’re calling you.
00:47:38:06 –> 00:48:43:04
And, and I, and, and it’s not like I don’t have the time as you don’t have time to do certain things in your life. I don’t have the time to go research every arrow Broadhead combination and all of these things. And so I think that’s what’s important about, you know, having a resource like you and, and the p podcast podcast listeners. It’s gonna be interesting. I think you’re gonna get a few calls and I think they should be uninhibited to go ahead and give you a holler or your staff, you know. Yeah. We get a ton of guys that come from a long ways and they, you know, they’ll, they’ll come because maybe they’ve got a pro shop and they’ve kind of got, you know, to the, to the max of that cap capa, you know, ability of that maybe that pro shop’s technical advice or whatever they’re available to give to ’em. ’cause a lot of guys are, you know, they’re, there’s a lot of good pro shops and they’re all gonna be excellent and best choice that you’re gonna have compared to what’s, you know, buying something online and trying to be a bow hunter’s a joke. There’s some things you can buy online that if you need to have supply of, but to start up, you need to get a go to somebody that’s gonna help you write. And there’s different varying degrees of, you know, ability and, and technical knowledge.
00:48:43:09 –> 00:49:55:17
And so we get a lot of people driving a long ways to get their bows, you know, like re strong tuned new rest custom arrows. We do a really high-end custom arrow where we, you know, we spine index ’em, we square ’em, we fletch ’em, hand fletch ’em with a, you know, really good fleshing jigs from, you know, like $500 fleshing jigs from Lost Chance archery. We’ve got Bits burgers too. And all the, the latest, greatest stuff and stuff we know works and, you know, putting the, you know, the right components in, you know. Yeah. And then if a guy wants that and if he wants a $6, 6 99 arrow, I’ve got a great, you know, arrow from victory that, you know, it’s not as straight and everything, it’s a good place to start. So I’ve got some for everybody, just depends on what they wanna do. But there’s been to be more and more people now that know a lot of information and it’s really good to get, there’s some great information out there, you know, on the internet and there’s some stuff that you can apply and at least educate yourself, but at the end of the day, there’s nothing that’s gonna substitute a good technician dialing your bow in and somebody showing you how to shoot it. Right. And, and stuff we see instantly because we do it every day. Like we can tell the guy’s anchoring, right?
00:49:55:18 –> 00:50:47:07
The draw links, you know, half inch too long and the peeps too low or too high, you know, check and see if the TMS are out of time. You know, we, we just, we from all the different, you know, troubleshooting we’ve done and, and shooting ourselves, it’s pretty easy for us to identify and improve pretty much everybody’s setup equipment wise. The hard part is getting people to be dedicated enough to, to change what’s comfortable form wise, once they’ve shot wrong incorrectly for a long time, you know, something that’s comfort comfortable to them and they’re gonna say, oh man, I feel like I shot, you know, they shot, they’ll remember the good arrows. They’re not gonna remember the bad ones or the animals they missed, you know, when they, when they have to be disciplined for 21 days to change a habit of doing something new and correct. And then there are guys that, that it’s really rewarding for me. I, I do a lot of personal stuff from some of my guys that I know. It’s rewarding for me to take ’em and say, okay, I’m gonna work on your form. We’re gonna get this released. I’m gonna show you how to shoot it.
00:50:47:10 –> 00:51:50:25
You come to the store and then what you do is when you go home and I’ve got guys that live, you know, a hundred miles or 600 miles away, and they’ll just, will just FaceTime and I’ll follow up and work on their form and show ’em what they’re doing. There’s usually one or two things that they do consistently wrong that’s comfortable that they need to change, like their elbow’s too low or, you know, whatever it is, or their shoulder’s too high or grips, you know, too much on the bone instead of, you know, on that thumb line. And some of those things will get them to pull through the shot, right? And they, once they get all that together, you know, following up on it, all of a sudden they turn into a lot better shot and they, and they, and they love it. And they then they become really loyal, long-term customers. But for me the reward is that they, that they’re, that they improve their shooting and they enjoy and stick with the sport and get their buddies into it and their families. Yeah. Well one, you know, we’ve talked a little bit about arrows, bows, equipment, all that, which it, it’s hard to, in one podcast covered all and you got the fact, the personal factor, part of it’s budget, part of it’s build frame tendencies, all that you kind of gotta see and prescribe individually.
00:51:50:27 –> 00:53:09:21
But couple things I want to get into, which using correct form and, and correct practice or kind of some things we can talk about that are somewhat more universal in terms of form and practice. But talk about real quick as we bleed, blend into that the releases and tendencies or things that you see, because a lot of people, you know, whether it’s target panic or just improper use of releases are supposed, are supposed to make up for the inconsistency in shooting with fingers. I mean that’s, that’s why they were even invented, right? Because I, I mean, I’m assuming I’m making assumptions here, but that’s what they’re supposed to do. But if you don’t use ’em right, they can be as bad or worse than, you know, f you know, flipping three fingers off. Well, there’s a disconnect. Yeah, there’s a disconnect between your, your, your, you know, your fingers and, and the arrow when you take your fingers off the string. But the benefit is, is that you have a disconnect between, you know, your fingers not being on the string, which there’s a lot more tension changes that can happen and everything else, but a lot of people freak out because they’re, they’re control freaks or, and they don’t, you know, it’s easy to punch, to release and have, have, you know, a worse res you know, experience depending on how they shoot it like a gun.
00:53:09:21 –> 00:54:08:13
Here’s what I’ll tell, here’s what I’ll tell you that I, that I, that kind of what we do and what we found works for a multitude of people. And there’s, there’s also exceptions to every rule, right? So it depends a lot on, on the person’s talent and, and his ability to take instruction and, and apply it. And then also their, their diligence to end up being actually, you know, practice it enough to turn it into a habit and not just something, you know, that I, I teach people all the time. I come back and they’re doing the same thing two weeks, three weeks, a month later, I tell ’em again and it’s like, oh yeah, you told me that. You know? Yeah, no, I told you that 17 times. How come you’re not doing it? You know? And I’ll get a little hard and tough love on ’em. ’cause I just like, I’m taking my time to try to help ’em. And we, and I don’t personally do too many private lessons. It’s not like, Hey, you can come book an hour, you know, an hour with me or, because I’ve got so much to do right now with, you know, running the store and everything else and trying to keep the inventory in and bills paid and I had to do a lot of sales. I love doing that.
00:54:08:13 –> 00:55:10:24
And I’ll help my customers that every single person I help, I’m putting some type of form, you know, you know, into them trying to improve their shooting ability. Whether it’s the first time they shot a bow or they’ve been shooting for 20 years, but if they aren’t, aren’t committed to, to wanting to improve and do what it takes to improve, you’re, you know, once I find out that they’re not doing it, then I’m not as likely to put as much, you know, information and and effort into them if they’re not gonna, you know, actually take it and run with it. You know? ’cause you, you, you need to prac to practice correctly. You need to be doing, what I’ve seen is like most people can do four, you know, say four times a week and you need to do quality arrows only. So maybe depending on your focus, your strengths, you how long you’ve been shooting, whatever, you know, it might be 20 good arrows and then you start getting a little sloppy or you’re thinking about business or your wife’s, you know, wanting to go to dinner or your kids are, you know, screaming or killing each other, whatever they do, you know, or the wind’s blowing y’all around, so you need to just shoot. But I, I like to shoot it four times a week.
00:55:10:27 –> 00:56:19:11
I like to shoot, keep your strength and some of this little twitchy things that you do to, you know, keep bow aiming well and, and just, you know, like endurance enough to, to where you’re, you’re shooting well at the end of the session as well as the beginning. You know, like she would say, I, I get like in that 50 arrow range, then I start, you know, like I, that’s, I think that’s enough of, I’m shooting really good, I’ll just keep putting ’em on. But if I start getting a little sloppy and getting tired, then I’ll, I’ll, and I’ll, I’ll go back up maybe a little closer and finish with some really good shots. So always finish on a good confident note and I’ll shoot more in for, for form and confidence. And sometimes I can be long range too. If it’s not windy and I got a, a big enough target where I can relax and drop ’em in there, that’s, you know, you need to know, you need to shoot long range. But I don’t shoot as much long range as I probably do at 40 yards where I, I can still stack ’em pretty damn good. And it’s far enough to where it’s not like 20 where you can get away with some, some, some sloppiness and still have a pretty good result. So crazy. How long have you been doing this? Oh, I don’t know. When was Fred f Flintstone born somewhere?
00:56:20:23 –> 00:57:28:00
I know you guys are talking to Almer, which was pretty funny. Funny, you know, ’cause we’re talking about the beginning of archery and the guys at the store, they’ll, they’ll, some guy will come in, some old guy, antique guy, like, you know, he’ll bring this bow in and they’re like, oh, we gotta go get the archery Google. That’s what they call me because I’ve seen every freaking bow. And for some reason I can remember string links and things, amazing weird things and how to, how to adjust them. But basically the old car bowl bow outta Southern. Yeah, I already, Carter and Carter, I had a Jennings four wheel s handle was my first bow. And yeah, pretty crazy. I bought a used and went to Catalina Island where we, that was great way to start, dude. We used to have really good opportunities back in the, in the seventies. I started kinda late seventies, I guess. Went to Catalina, had a bow for two weeks. They, they weren’t gonna have a hunt till the next spring. So I went and, and I didn’t know what the heck I was doing hunting wise and, you know, I’d done a little bit, but with a rifle, but that’s not the same as getting a hundred, you know, getting 50 yards from a, a goat that gets hunted every day of his life when those islands are pretty smart. Yeah, yeah.
00:57:28:07 –> 00:58:26:29
But yeah, so yeah, late seventies, you know, we had islands, Catalina, Santa Cruz, they had goats on and pigs on Catalina and Marino, sheep and pigs on Santa Cruz Island off the Santa Barbara, the Channel islands. And they were amazing way. We used to go over with groups of like 30 and they’d turned us loose on a weekend, we’d camp out, you know, in a barbarian. Yeah, yeah. And, and, but you know, it wasn’t that easy. I mean, we’d have 30 guys and maybe 10 of ’em would shoot goats, you know, and the other 20 we’d get experience. Yeah. And those things were, were wild as heck. And you know, the guys that got it figured out and it made you use your brain, which is one thing we have for the reasoning is figuring out patterns and trails and wind and where they’re gonna go once they’re pushed and where they feed and bed and all those things. Which is really a lot of, you know, figuring out animals is, you know, it’s just like you guys scouting for those giant deer in, in Nevada or something where there aren’t very many, but there’s a few. And then you get competition with other people and you gotta, you gotta know all those things. And that’s how it’s putting the pieces of the puzzle together.
00:58:26:29 –> 00:59:30:25
Whether you shoot a rifle, muzzle load, or a bow, you still have to, you know, put, find yourself, find where that animal’s vulnerable and put yourself in a position to get a good shot. Yeah. So, well you’ve been there doing that for a long time. If we, it’s hard to, I guess, take home form some of these, some everybody’s kind of putting the final touches on maybe their bow, their setup, their form, their practice, things like that here for a lot of archery seasons, you know, we’re not maybe talking some of the white tail stuff that comes on later, but, you know, something tips that you think people, they’re listening here as they’re, as they’re tuning or, or practicing and using correct form. And maybe it’s the release. What are, what are four, five things that you think or somewhat universal? Some somewhat universal. Yeah, yeah. Well, number one thing I would say, and, and we do this all the time, is, is people should learn a little bit. But what I’ve found is most people will, will make, get themselves in more trouble by trying to adjust their bows that don’t do it all the time and have a feel for it and know what they’re doing. I’d say make an appointment with a, with a quality, you know, pro shop person who’s in your area.
00:59:31:24 –> 01:00:31:04
And even if you have to drive a little ways to get to somebody that’s confident, make an appointment that’s good timing wise. Not a Saturday, you know, two weeks before the season, that’s not gonna work for, you know, he’s gonna be slammed. But make an hour appointment. Be willing to pay the guy, you know, respect that part of it. And he’s gonna spend some time with you. Look over your bow check. The timing on the cams is probably the one thing that, you know, you can’t see. And people shoot field points and their, I don’t know what it is about people that’ll spend, you know, thousands of dollars in two weeks of their, their vacation and they don’t wanna practice with a broadhead that cost them 10 bucks and they can put new blades in, you know, but in broadheads you can shoot the heck outta your field points. And if your cams are slightly out of time, which can happen really easily, even if you have really good aftermarket, you know, strings like we, we like to put America’s best bow strings in them. But even your, your, like your high-end bows, like Matthews and Hoyt, the soft strings are, are pretty damn good, but they’re not as good as the aftermarket and they can move around a little bit. If your timing’s off a little bit on one cam, you might not feel it.
01:00:31:04 –> 01:01:26:24
If it’s just a little bit, it’ll, it’ll make your fixed play broadheads impact high or low or left or right, slightly depending if the timing’s off a little. So little tweaks like that, that a that a pro shop guy’s gonna get. Check your timing, make sure you know you’re shooting, you know, broad edges or shooting good. Make sure you practice with your, your fixed, you know, whatever broad edge you’re gonna shoot. If you’re gonna shoot expandables, that’s fine, get a practice head or whatever. But make sure you bow dialed in so that when you put that, you know, range finder on the target and you set your pin for that distance, or you shoot between your pins or whatever pin it is, you’re gonna fix that pin that you know that the arrow’s gonna go there and it’s not out of tune and, and you’re not surprised that it looks like it did a corkscrew or did something weird. You know, then you’re gonna, the, even if you made a bad shot, you’re gonna blame it on the bug ’cause you weren’t a hundred percent confident mentally that it was set up right. So if it is set up right, you’re gonna make execute the shot better probably. And if you do miss one, you’re probably not gonna be as likely to, to miss the next shots because you’re not, you’re not gonna blame it on the bow. Yeah.
01:01:26:24 –> 01:02:27:21
Trust, be able to be able to trust your equipment and know that yeah, it’s right not shooting well know it’s you, it’s you and your beha, your, your lease, your I think that’s breathing, dropping your bow on whatever you Yeah. You, I and I I was trying to tell my goal that yeah, pro a professional, a good professional’s gonna be able to, to i if you spend an hour with them and pay ’em whatever they, they want. It’s usually partly anything, you know, we always archery industry, but it gives everything away. But like I say, it’s 75 bucks for an hour or something, you know, like what a, you would pay for a tennis pro or a golf pro. It’s gonna be worth it. And for him to, you know, go over your stuff and make sure you’re both tuned. Look at your form and better early than late. But it’s better late than never. And you know, a lot of times we, it can be right on with the field points and then the timing’s, you know, just a, you know, one twist on one cable on some of these bows can make a difference on whether, you know, it’s, it’s knock high or low if one camp’s advanced slightly more than the other and you can’t feel that, but it’ll show up in your broadhead flight. Especially if you’re shooting fixed blade at, at elk at 50 yards, you know? Yeah.
01:02:27:26 –> 01:03:25:18
You want that thing dotted on so that you’re not, you know, high or low. You wanna put it right where it’s supposed to be and, and then you know that it’s good. You’re more likely to make a good shot. You know, you’re not questioning yourself at that time point. Well if you know your equipment’s good and you take, you do these four practice sessions a week for, you know, a while, there’s nothing like that confidence. There’s nothing like it. It’s just where they have a rifle or, or boat. It just feels like everything’s magnified because it’s, there’s so many, so many parts to make that arrows shoot a dark. Remember Broadhead, my first, my first what I felt like was really, I, I was confident and it was set up right. Was this cyber tech? I don’t know if, do you remember that? Like the old cyber tech? Oh yeah, Hoyt. Hell yeah. Mean I don’t know if it was good or bad in between. You can tell me, but I mean, I That’s a great bo huh? Yeah, I’ve been selling, I’ve been selling boast since 1981, so I’ve pretty much seen all, you probably remember it, but, so you can imagine. Yeah. So anyway, I I’m telling you, I could shoot that thing 90 yards and back then you, that was a long shot back then.
01:03:25:20 –> 01:04:24:25
Coming, we’re talking two well ho always engineered ho has always engineered really good accuracy into all their bows and they’ve just, they’ve changed with the demands and, and influences if you wanna call, influence from other manufacturers that have designs that have been popular, you know, you know, so they’re, they’re all shooting really good now and, and they’re actually, they’re the consistencies with the limbs, the tunability, the width of the limb tips, the cam lean, you know, all those things really equate into, you know, making a a more consistent, you know, shooting machine. But I’d say the one thing that a lot of people overlook and, and they should do on, on any high end setup to keep it the same long term, get as, get some good custom strings. And there’s a lot of companies out there making, you know, custom strings and, you know, I’ve found used to be winner’s choice. And when they went back to Kentucky and got bought out, their, their consistency went down a little bit compared to when Mike’s linker had ’em up in Oregon. But A, BB America’s best post strings, they, they’ve got it down. They do, that’s all they do.
01:04:24:25 –> 01:05:25:29
They have computers doing ’em and there’s, I mean, and if there is a problem and they make ’em, I can get ’em strings in like five days and if there’s something wrong with them, no questions asked, they send in another pair the next day, you know? Yeah. If there’s like, they get the tune length wrong because it was some weird obscure bow that they may be one of the cables that they had in their library was a quarter inch different than what this one actually needs because there was a different cam change in line that year with that company. And there’s, there’s stuff like that that’s difficult, but they do a good job and once you get those things shot in, you don’t need pee rubber or cams don’t go out of time serving doesn’t separate, you’re Bos consistent for forever. Well, for at least a couple years depending on how much you shoot. Yeah. Yeah. So when you got those things dialed, then when it comes to, i, I guess some former technique tips that you think guys need to employ to try to, I mean, you know, what do you, I mean, again, this is a one size, well then you mean shoot, you know, when I tell guys too, like, say, say now you got a bow, you got shooting and, and you’re shooting your backyard, you know, by yourself, you should shoot 3D targets.
01:05:25:29 –> 01:06:30:13
You know, shooting a 3D tournament is gonna be the closest thing you’re gonna get to hunting. You’re gonna be wanting to score, well, you’re gonna get one shot, you know, at a time. You’re not shooting 15 in your backyard by yourself at a known distance maybe. Or you know, you’re not with your peers and they’re, you’re, they’re seeing where your arrows are going. So it puts pressure on you. It also gets you to shoot at not nons spot targets if you’re shooting a good 3D range, up and down hills, different distances picking, you know, a spot on the animal that you should shoot it. You need to know mentally where the pin should be and, and then pull through the shot and execute the shot and then get, get you, you know, figure out whether you shot a good arrow or not. And that’s going to improve and, and get close to, you know, as close as you’re gonna get to hunting. There is no substitute for hunting. And I’d say, you know, like us out here, we hunt pigs. We’ll go up central coast, we have wild pigs year round. We start our guys on pig hunts. Once they’ve gotten shooting, they get 3D shooting, they go up and we have good ranches that have, you know, usually almost everybody gets an opportunity. It’s free range. It’s not that easy. But pigs are a lot easier to get on than deer.
01:06:30:20 –> 01:07:32:18
And you know, if you shoot up 150 pound meat, so then it’s a pretty cool animal, make sausage out of it. They share it with their family, they’re stoked, they’re hooked on bow hunting. The other opportunities we have, we get guys over the counter deer in Arizona. There’s some really good, you know, hunt opportunities there December, January. And they can draw, have Alina tags in a lot of the units, you know, and a javelinas made for bow hunting, especially for a new guy. You know, you, you don’t have to be quite as stealthy. You can make some mistakes, you gotta have the wind right. But you know, you can get in on ’em and they’re usually 20, 30 yard shots, which most guys can make. And that’s, they get the heart rate up and just get the kills. Get these kills under your belt belt. Yeah, that’s, we’ve basically what you’re saying, collar pro, good equipment, custom strings, shoot 3D and then kill lots of stuff. Yeah. Especially getting into kill. Yeah. Learn how to, how to learn how to shoot your bow at an animal target and then an animal and then, you know, it, it just, it just builds on from there. ’cause the experience is super important and, you know, so, so blessed to be able to, you know, have those islands to just get a crash course, you know, and Oh, that’d, that’d be a great place to turn. Yeah.
01:07:32:18 –> 01:08:32:19
All day long you’re stalking. We’d go all day long and, and you know, you’re hiking up and down cliffs. I’d go off on the cliffs where nobody would go. I figured out that nobody would go down there and just where all the big goats were hanging out because they get bothered. Yeah, I’m hanging around. I had, you know, like baseball catchers, shin guards on the second time I went, everybody was laughing at me because I got cactus in my legs the first time. I’m like, screw that. You know, those trails are all overgrown ’cause you know, there’s just goats through ’em going through ’em. And they weren’t built for people. And I go down in there and mix it up with them a little bit and I was killing big goats. And every guy quit laughing at me. They, they just started working wearing their, their shin cards the next time. That’d be a great place to turn kids loose. ’cause we’re, Carter and I have been laughing. We’ve got a couple first year bull hunters this year. Each of us have sons and I that bless their hearts. They’re gung-ho but I don’t think they understand how hard it, how hard it is to kill. They’re picking you, they’re picking out deer off a trail camera, pitchers in the, in the night deer that’re only watering at night or whatever else, or trails or whatever. And they’re like, that’s the buck.
01:08:32:24 –> 01:09:38:19
And I’m like, oh, Ashley’s like, that’s the buck I want, Sean. That’s yours Justin, that’s yours. When the uz season comes, that’s mine. And I’m, they don’t just die. They don’t just die with the bow. There’s a lot of chasing, you’ve been out there, of course you’ve hunt a lot of mulder mulder’s kind of on the brain right here in Utah with kids. Yeah. It’s one of my favorite things too. Just like you said, don’t you gotta get a lot of experience and and there’s something to that. I mean, you know. Yeah. And the v is to shoot under pressure. People don’t, I tell ’em like, Hey, no matter what, I’ve raced motocross, played, you know, tennis, done all kinds of competitive stuff and nothing is gonna get you as excited or as a live animal, a bro at a big animal. There’s, you can’t even explain what happens to your body mind. Well that hasn’t happened. And, and I’m ready to see that perhaps this weekend. I think that and they, these they, you can’t describe it. I mean, I remember the first year I ever shot, I was 14, opening day, I probably would’ve shot a dough. It was back when it was in either six in Utah. I was, it went from a, the week before the hunt, it was four point only the night before the hunt or any buck opening morning.
01:09:39:04 –> 01:10:40:21
It was if, if it was a brown it was gonna get shot at and it was a for key. And I let one rip 44 yards with that Carole brown, 44 yards with like a 45 pound bow and really legit aluminum barrels. Aing r XX 75 arcing with a bear razor head. I mean that, that thing had to be way front heavy on that, on that. But oh, that was a, yeah, that’s good set up back there. Anyway. Yes. Well what did you have to pick from, right? You know, not, not, not a lot. But anyway, just we’ve come a long way. There’s a lot of options. You’ve got, we could talk for hours and we’ll probably have to have you back at some point, you know, and Yeah. And do a podcast from a long-term planning standpoint, this is more, hey, archery’s on everybody’s mind right now. It’s time to hit the field. A few things to take away from it. But there’s places like you at, you know, your performance to be able to call lot shops. Yeah. Too, I mean there’s a fair amount of good shops in Utah. Most states have some, and sometimes you might not have one within, you know, there might be one that’s a little further to drive to and, and some guys you’ll just mesh with better, you know, than others too.
01:10:40:22 –> 01:11:42:22
But yeah, there’s no, there’s no substitute for, for good information from somebody that knows what they’re doing. And that pretty much the only place you’re gonna find that is a pro shop. I think we’re like five hours guys might be good hunters. I think we’re five hours from you. We’re just gonna pile in a bunch of guys and drive down to San Diego. Maybe if, maybe if you’re driving five hours, bring one of your, yeah, one of your, your stretch limo four wheel drives that you guys own or whatever. No, no, no. Oh no, but power wagon or something. We’ll come down. I, so let’s say a guy. Yeah. Seven hour. Seven hour. Let’s say if a guy is within reasonable different distance of, of you per se, what, or they fly in. Do you guys have, you guys probably have flying customers that come in and get Yeah, I’ve got some guys that fly in too. You know, I’ve had, I’ve got a couple guys that drive that drove in from, from the kind of up in the Napa area. They’ve got some good shops up there. But just one of the guys wanted a left-handed Hoyt and I had one and came down and then took good care of him. And then now he just comes to us all the time set up by appointment. I mean, can you take care of guys if they call in? Yeah, yeah.
01:11:42:24 –> 01:12:33:06
If somebody like that, if, if they’re, they’re gonna come, I’m gonna, I’m gonna help ’em and then I’m gonna make sure I have one of my best techs available too. You know, I’ve got some really good techs technicians and I’ve, you know, I wanna make sure that like they come on a day that I can make, give them a priority for as much time as it takes to get ’em right. And usually shoot their, if they’re gonna buy a bow or like this guy sends his bows down once a year or whatever to get new strings. He sends ’em ahead of time. We, I shoot ’em in ’cause I’m left-handed now and I can shoot either way. But I’ve got guys that are right-handed too that can shoot ’em in and we’ll shoot, you know, 20 arrows or so, make sure the timing’s good, check the bullet hole and then when he comes, he shoots another 30 or 40 and then we check the broadheads and he leaves. And it’s just that, it’s the same for Pete doesn’t rotate and the Broadhead shoot good for a year. You know. Do you keep, do you keep a file on him and so like he can reorder arrows, say he wants the expensive arrows? Yeah, yeah, we do that. Yeah. We got a good, really good computer program.
01:12:33:13 –> 01:13:40:07
And so I’ll put exactly what arrow, what vein they like, what color, what kind of offset or cle and what kind of inserts and point weight and length and all, all that stuff. And then yeah, we can just ship ’em to, the guy wants custom arrows. We make a really good custom marro. And, and we do have all the different brands, you know, we do, we do a lot of victory. We, you know, I, it’s one of the best values in a quality arrow and they make all the different, you know, diameters. And then we have East End, we’ve got gold tip, carbon express and between all those and we carry some, some Black Eagle as well. But yeah, I don’t get too close-minded. And I’ve got a ton of inventory, I mean a ton of inventory ’cause I wanna have all the choices for people. And now we got our, our favorites, but we, you know, we try to dial it to each customer, give ’em the best options and some guys have got their mind made up. We’ve got those, those, those those products and stock too. And they can buy ’em. Do you have everything in stock, say from, you know, expensive bows, you know, more economical bows for anybody of any size, height, weight. We got recurves, we got $150 recurves up to carbon bows. But I’ve got, if you count, you know, just say compound bows.
01:13:40:07 –> 01:14:45:24
I’ve probably got 150 on the wall if you got a performance archery.net. And when you look at our Google yeah. Page, I’ve got a, a tour there. You can go and look at the inside of the store. I got like 150 bows on the wall. I’ve probably got another hundred in the back room. Perfect, perfect. I’ve got, you know, 50 to 75 recurs. I’ve got gazillion dollars with arrows and components and yeah. You know, we got a really nice store and then I got a 16 yard indoor range. So we have people come in, they can test their equipment. It’s air conditioned, it’s clean, it’s nice. Awesome. Families come in and we do beginner classes right now with the covid thing. We’ve had to cut way back on the, on the classes and stuff and do the social distancing and all that wonderful stuff. Just sneak ’em in. Just sneak ’em in in California. You’re probably not getting away from, we’re getting a super liberal governor, man. I wanna be compliant. I don’t wanna get closed down, shut down. How about protesters? You had anybody outside the shop giving you grief? No, they didn’t come that close, you know, but we had a mile and a half up the street. They had their, their thing they had a BLM deal going on. Geez. So yeah, I, I was down there with my AR and my HK 40 just in case somebody wanted to come around.
01:14:45:28 –> 01:15:47:25
Fixed broadheads. Yeah. What about a bought, about a quick blade or a expandable giant expand Reaper. I wanna protect what I one of those Turkey head guillotine. The guillotine brought it. Yeah. Come on over. I’m glad nobody Yeah, it’s a shame. ’cause you know, some people wanna protest and then some people turn it into a mess and Yeah. And that’s, you know, that’s, you know, the whole thing, it’s thing to heard up together, it’s, it’s one thing to be heard, it’s another thing to loot people’s problems. Yeah. I, it’s pretty hard. I mean, I don’t think anybody has a problem with protesting in them, but, but when it gets violent and you start burning people’s businesses down that they rely on and something they built their whole life and then, or beat up people because they’re, there’re certain color or whatever, it’s not right. They did that in some, I already, I recently heard that like if you, if it’s a state of emergency and say the national guard’s called in that now the insurance companies don’t have to pay out because it wasn’t because it’s a state of emergency or whatever. So anyway, you’re having hard, these businesses could potentially have a hard time on collecting, on insurance. Well, here’s the other thing is people think that, like there’s some of those, those liberal kids, they say, oh we’ll just burn it down. Don’t, don’t try to save it.
01:15:47:26 –> 01:16:52:10
It’s just the insurance companies will re rebuild you and they’ll, you know, pay you off anyway. They don’t realize that you insurance rates are gonna go through the roof. They’re not gonna insure certain, you know, businesses and, and to, to open, open back up and get, get paid and all that stuff and rebuild your store. That doesn’t just happen like the next week. No, no. It, it ruins people’s lives. You know, it takes a long time. Even we don’t have the, like, we’re not product heavy on in, in our particular business, but it just takes a long time. The processes, the everything. It just takes a hard, you know, a long time to get things smooth. Your computer information. Yeah, all your computer stuff and info. I mean you can get download it in the cloud and everything, but still all the stuff you have files you have there. But yeah, I mean it’s just, it’s isolated, you know, and hopefully San Diego hasn’t been too bad even though, you know, certain areas, you know, had a few cities that they burn some stuff up. But it’s, it’s been, it’s pretty, I’m, I’m in like an industrial area and then I live at the beach, you know, I’m not in, in the city and stuff, so, you know, you gotta be conscious of it. But yeah, that, that spooks me way more the civil unrest than than yeah. Than the virus thing.
01:16:52:10 –> 01:18:00:16
You know, what do you, what do you, viruses one thing, but people, the amount of people, young people that are, that are, that are angry and think it’s okay to break the law and not have anybody do anything about it. It’s not right. Yeah. When do you get a escape? Some of that. What type of hunts do you got this year? What’s your fall looking like? I maybe a little bit different looking due to covid stuff. Yeah. You know, I decided, you know, talked to most of the hunts that I had. I like doing something, you know, like usually a Yukon moose or something, you know, like I like getting away of that north country, you know, the she hunts have got so excessively expensive, you know. I mean I’ve been, that’s one of my favorite things is hunting, you know, mountain game. But I’ve got a elk and mule deer pretty much my focus now that I’ve killed all 29. So I, there, I always do try to do a, a meal deer and an elk every year hunt. And then in a really good place where I have a chance of killing, you know, high quality, you know, higher end, you know, score wise type bulls, which is what turns me on now. But the, yeah, I usually have some type of hunt. Like last year I went to Africa the year before I did Spain, you know, for iex.
01:18:00:18 –> 01:18:58:27
I like hunting mountain game. I did two years in a row back to back. I did a great SBOs back’s in Spain. I got a really good outfitter there and that’s, that’s pro bow hunting, which is hard to find. I hunted with Pedro Perel, which is a, one of the best hunters around period of bow hunter anywhere. But he is, yeah. Happens to live in Spain, hunted with him. And then he was buddies with Jason Harrison, who Jason was a, a good buddy of mine. Worked in my store when he was like 14, you know, and Wow. Yeah, I was ashamed. He was like a little brother to me. He was Yeah. Crazy. I hunted. Yeah, I know man. I was so sad. He just like a little brother, but yeah. Hundred Spain for Ibex with Pedro. And then the next year I went for the other Ivex buti. They have four different species. So I kind of was gonna do the other, they have Southwest and a Rhonda, which I haven’t done. I kind of like to have goals and just something to, to, to look forward to. ’cause if you don’t plan hunts, which is what you guys are all about, they don’t just happen, you know? Right.
01:18:58:28 –> 01:20:03:05
And they definitely don’t happen if you’re gonna go to, to far away places and do your, your dream hunts and you know, a lot of people get caught up in life and have responsibilities, which are important. But you can also, you know, plan something fun and, and have a good quality of life and makes, makes all the mundane, every day stressful stuff that we have to deal with. A lot easier to, to, to deal with when you have a good hunt coming up. Yeah, that’s right. Well mule deer and elk then well, we’ll be looking forward to seeing pit big bulls, elk, mul, deer bulls, big bulls. And if you see a big buck, gimme a holler. Yeah, I’m gonna, yeah, I’m going to Arizona actually qualify. I’ve been on their list for a while and they had a cancellation this year, so somebody didn’t wanna hunt. There you go. Yeah. So I’m gonna wall pie and it’s, they’ve got some pretty damn dang good upper end bowls and Oh yeah. Especially here like this year. Yeah. And so it’s like I, you know, I get a little hunt fund, you know, sponsor this or that, save up and I, I’d put it on, I’d rather, I’m not doing as many hunts as I used to, but I’m trying to do really good quality ones. Quality. Yeah. Yeah. And then I hunt with Alex Nestor in the eastern plains.
01:20:03:12 –> 01:21:06:01
He’s got some really good mule deer out there that seems to be a good place to kill really big bucks and a hundred with Jeremy Fiscus over the years and killed some really good deer with him, including 2 26 1 year. Gee. And he’s, yeah. Yeah, he’s so, it’s not like the most spectacular country to hunt. Like everybody wants to go up in the high country and do all that and I’m super busy here then. But it’s, there’s some big deer there. They grow big deer in a lot of different places. Yeah. Yeah. They limit the rifle tags. They don’t win or kill, they don’t have too much, you know, predator problems, maybe coyotes on the pawns and, and they have good genetics and they have plenty of feed and it gets to be some big deer. So it makes it fun. On your website, under performance archery.net, I just go, I’m kind looking at about us and I hit you. Yeah. And up comes a deer tell me like, that looks like eastern plain stuff to me. Yeah, it does. Or Kansas or something. Yeah, it’s probably Eastern plains. I don’t look at it. Big six four kindt trees. Yeah. You’re shooting a defiant. Yeah. Do you remember that? You probably remember the bow more than the deer. Yeah. Oh, that one. I’m not sure which picture it is, but if it’s a carbon defined it’s, that’s one nice shot.
01:21:06:01 –> 01:22:00:24
That was more like a, just a big four with the little crabby on one side. Yeah. And it’s got a little inline split on the top of his right. Two, three. Yeah, that one. That was a nice buck. That was, that was, yeah. Good looking deer. It was a pretty picture. It was funny ’cause that picture like, you know, we’re talking about, you know, like Randy Almer, he is been a good friend of mine and I’ve looked up to him for like everybody else has for years and talked to him and stuff. But they had Hoyt tagged out, you know, they had that picture and, and it’s, and he had a big giant buck that he killed up in the, in the up in the strip. And he, you know, of course being a little competitive like he is and like pretty much all of us are. Like, he had, I don’t remember what it was like maybe 7,000 likes or whatever. Mine had 10,000 plus. And I’m like, Hey Randy, I know you know that, you know, I, I noticed that my more like, likes aren’t a big deal, but hey, just say yeah, whatever it was or views or whatever they do likes. And he’s like, I noticed that, you know, that my deer, you know, got way more than yours.
01:22:00:24 –> 01:23:10:03
It must be because I’m better looking than you and huh not, not because you know, it’s a bigger deer because yours is bigger. The sunset too. Giving him a little staff because I, size doesn’t always matter. Randy size doesn’t always matter. I never, I don’t have anything over him and probably not even looks either, but I just like to give him some shit. But yeah, he’s, he’s, he’s quite a, quite a good dude and obviously very skilled and, and a good representative of the sport and yeah, the fact that he’s able to cross over with that kind of shooting. But I’ve also been in some hunts with him and his, his persistence and how hard he works and how good a shape he’s in and how relentless he is is is why, one of the reasons too, I mean that’s a key element in bow hunting I think is not, not giving up and just like, okay, today’s not good, but tomorrow’s gonna be better and staying positive. Yeah. Some of my best hunts, like my sheep, my stone sheep, I shot 20th day of a 14 day hunt, stayed longer. The outfitter worked with me. This was a long time ago when stone sheep were like $9,000 and I think I paid 4,500 now they’re 45 million or something. Yeah. And as they’re harder than heck to kill the bow. And I did with no range found with fingers and aluminum arrows.
01:23:10:03 –> 01:24:08:18
They’re like gazillion yards after must. Wow. Geez. And then, yeah, so yeah, that’s that. And then my, my, my grizzly that I shot mountain grizzly, I think I was 15 day of a 14 day hunt. You know, I, I got the guy to gimme one more day. He was picking some guys up that day and he gave me that morning I went out and, you know, it was raining and foggy and cleared up and we went to this one log cut where we’d seen some sign and I shot a black bear the night before we were gonna go pick up the black bear. It was down in this hole and we stopped and went down that road and it was first thing in the morning, this this bo this a big old bore kind of down in this little, you know, grassy area. And I snuck up and got the closest I could get with 78 yards and I’m right down quarter and away, one end of the other 15th day. So some of those things you don’t quit till till the end. And if you can extend a day or two, sometimes it pays off. No bow hunting that’s required. And that’s what we’re going bringing back this to our kids. I think they think, they think they’re going to kill a deer by nine 30 opening day and be on the lake, you know, wakeboarding that evening.
01:24:08:29 –> 01:25:21:06
Well you guys make it look easy because you’re so consistent on big stuff. A lot of people don’t realize the work and knowledge that went into making that happen. It’s the same thing with what you’re talking about with Randy’s photos and you just, yeah. You know, tho those don’t see the end results. Those don’t happen 20 days into it. And Randy’s done the same thing. He spent 30 days in Nevada at times. I mean that, it’s just, that’s the way times it goes down. So that’s Behar. Well we wanna thank you for coming on the podcast. I do want to throw just a little plug out there, performance archery.net, bobby from we really appreciate you number there is 8 5 8 6 5 3 5 9 4 5. Of course people are gonna want to visit with you. You’re gonna be busy. I don’t know, do you probably do take calls? Yeah, yeah I do. Some people like to do the Instagram thing too. I’ve been doing that for a couple years. So it’s, I think it’s Bob from and Instagram. Sometimes they can communicate that way if they wanna leave a message and I’ll get back to ’em. Great. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, maybe they can hit you up, man again. Yeah. Increase my followers from three to four or five, you know, that’d be nice. Yeah, well, we’ll, we’ll we’ll double ’em. We’ll double ’em from five to 10. I didn’t realize, I didn’t realize I wasn’t following you. I’m now following you.
01:25:21:13 –> 01:26:35:27
So there you go. Spell it out because it’s, for some reason I thought I wa I was following you. So spell it out Jason. It’s Bob, BOB underscore from F-R-O-M-M-E performance archery.net again. 8 5 8 6 5 3 5 9 4 5. I’m telling you, I, again, this is very enlightening podcast and I think Bronson and I are gonna be your first customers coming off this podcast. Well, when it gets winter and we’re wanting to get out of it and San Diego sounds better than Southern Utah and the snowstorm. That’s where we’re gonna come. Yeah, we’re gonna tell you right now your largest inventory. Well I’m sitting up here, I’ve got this second story, like I’m pretty lucky. I, I bought a small crappy house in a really good neighborhood 20 years ago ago and remodeled it and it’s close to the water. I’ve got a second story with an ocean view kind of guest suite and you guys are welcome to come up here and, and it’s kind of like where I have my guests come and it’s got, its so independent bathroom shower deck. Perfect. You know? Yeah. Where’s Adam gonna see far? Whatever coffee pot. Yeah. Like I don’t know how maybe your wives might wanna come too. Yeah, we can, we can accommodate that. Or I know you and you and Adam make a nice couple, so Yeah, we do at times. Sometimes we, we hit the road and do some of these Oh. Rifle shoots and different things.
01:26:35:27 –> 01:27:37:12
We’re definitely gonna come your way. We don’t surf much. No, no. Good. Never done that. You won’t, you walk around. Not much water in Utah. Ding and ding my boards up. It’s pretty funny ’cause it seems like everybody’s super stoked about the surfing. Right. And I do all these other sports, but the surfing gets a lot of attention and it’s a pretty cool, it’s an amazing sport and I love the ocean. It’s about as clo you know, you’re, you’re immersed in nature with the waves. They’re all a little different. You have to, it’s very physical to to, to judge ’em and get into the wave and stand up. Good balance and, and then reading them, they’re all different. So it’s, surfing is a pretty unique sport that’s really, it’s similar to hunting but different, you know, but you’re, you’re still immersed in nature and it’s really, you know, kind of relaxing and, and it’s super physical. But as far as from tattling standpoint, it’s really a good, good workout for your upper body. That’s awesome. Hey guys, I appreciate it. Welcome to come. Lemme know. We’ll find a good time. Good luck this year on your house. Yeah. Bring your bows and I’ll, I’ll tell you, you know, tell you what we’re doing. I’m thinking starting from scratch. Yeah. Jason wants to do left-handed. I’m gonna stick to right though. I won’t. One beach. I want one of each. I want, I want one of each.
01:27:37:12 –> 01:28:24:10
And you know, I was thinking he’s just throwing out this left hand thing. ’cause you could get everybody to buy another bow there. Well, Bob, are you guilty? Yeah. Hey, that, that’s start from scratch. It’s hit the reset button. Here we go. I’m sometimes it’s gonna work. I’m telling you. I’m thinking Yeah. Need to do it. Yeah. So if you’re having panic, you know, target panic, a lot of guys just quit, right? And they start shooting a cross or muzz loader or whatever. I see ’em not come in for a while and they get a long range rifle or change the release. They go from a trigger release to something different. It’s a thumb. But they, they do the same thing with the thumb. They’ll buy a, you know, like, like John Dudley’s a good buddy of mine and he is done a lot for the sport, for information. And it’s, and he is a great dude and, and he’s had an amazing amount of knowledge, but if you go and watch his video and buy one of his releases, some guys will get it if they, if they have somebody work with ’em and they have some knowledge, but most guys won’t.
01:28:24:10 –> 01:29:23:10
I see a lot of guys come in with them and they think it’s gonna be a cure all that, you know, we need to, we need to work with ’em on how to actually, the technical part of what they need to do with their body. And then a lot of times what they see on the screen is not have, they’re not able, able to app apply it, you know, physically. And that’s where hands-on comes in. And once you get somebody like that and you tell ’em some key points, then we, we can do stuff, you know, Skype or FaceTime or whatever else, you know? Yeah. All this wonderful newfangled ways of communicating. Yeah. Zoom. Okay. Sounds good. Well, maybe this winter we’ll definitely be staying at your place and buying some boats. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, even if you don’t buy ’em, I know you guys get everything for free. We don’t, you’re not gonna start selling them. No. You know, for discounts on your, to your members, like all your optics and everything else. So we, we pay for stuff. If you, if you, if you get it for free, it’s usually more expensive, you know what I mean? Yeah. I’ll help you, I’ll help you guys regardless. You just have helped me plenty of times. I make good decisions on hunts, so I, I value that, that friendship and, and knowledge. So Will, alright, all you’ll hear from the best we, thanks again, Bob.
01:29:23:10 –> 01:30:30:25
Good luck this year. Alright guys, keep up. Good work. See you. You betcha. Thank you. Bye. It’s one of those fields, like maybe long range shooting that you can break it apart piece by piece and do a whole podcast on, and it’s, well, I spent an hour and 10 or 15 minutes to learn that I just need to drive down there and pick up a new ball and shoot left-handed. And I want, I want perfect arrows, perfect broadheads, perfect equipment, and then it all to be my fault. If I miss me personally, the shooter, the equipment, I want to be perfect. Tell me I’m wrong. You feel that way, don’t you? Well, it’s whether it’s your optics, we want perfect glass. So if it’s there and he’s on his feet, I, I got, I wanna be able to see it rifle, the, the load, the bullet, my range finder, the dope. You’re plugging into your range finder, everything. I can trust it. So if I miss this shot, it’s me. One last thing, I know this has been forever, but what if we, so Jeff John’s had an archery antelope tag. Oh yeah. Perfect. What if we just see how his archery hunt’s going real quick. Is he out there right now? He, he has been, I think he’s been working on a, finishing up a house trying to kill an antelope. Other projects.
01:30:30:29 –> 01:31:41:12
It’s definitely not been a smash and grab antelope pun, it has not been a smashing grab. Nevada where, where he Nevada, he has chased Nevada. Nevada. They’ve been chase like, he, he, he, they squared off and they’re doing 40 down the road and I mean, I think they got within er range. Let’s just, let’s just bend his ear for quick 10 seconds, see what he’s got going on. Truck chasing stick and string. What’s going on, man? Well, I’m just wondering about how, how it’s going hunting those truck chasers. Are you in an antelope blind right now? Please don’t tell me I’m on the podcast. Well, we were just saying it’s archery hunt. We just had a, a good friend of ours on, on the podcast talking about archery gear. You’ve had some amazing experiences in Nevada and we were just wondering how it was going. How is it gone? A truck chaser with stick and string. You know, I’m just sick about it because the, the beauty and horror of social media is that you get to see everybody else’s success and revel in your own defeat. Which is, which is been quite the, oh, it’s hard. It’s hard opening day. It’s hard to watch all the kills out there. That’s what you’re saying. And yeah. And realize the struggles you’ve had and that you’re the only one that’s in the struggling out the world.
01:31:41:12 –> 01:32:56:21
You’re the only one in the world that can’t kill something opening day. That’s what you feel like. And lemme tell you, when you are laying in an alkali flat out in the middle of the desert of Nevada thinking about these things, it’s mentally taxing. You’re refreshing your Instagram in an alkali flat lick licking dust, wondering how many, how much longer you’ve got a belly for what col what camel pat what camel pattern works best in an alkali flat. Hey, you know what I will say white sheet dude, this ridge reaper, this ridge reaper camel. If you look at the gray tone in it, it is the exact color of Nevada alkali flat. Like, like they took it from that exact pallet. It’s quite amazing. But dude, so back to the hunt. I mean, I I know you chased one down, or at least your boy did right? Didn’t chase one down. He decided to, to run alongside the truck. Yeah. You know, the biggest mistake you can make is getting out of the truck sometimes, I swear. But anyway, because you know, as, as they’re well documented on the Epic Outdoors podcast, they are truck chasers. They try to beat you. They have in their mind where they want to be and yeah, you can’t change their mind. You’re not gonna turn him. Yeah, you can’t, you can change an antelopes mind on the direction that he’s heading. It’s quite amazing.
01:32:57:05 –> 01:34:31:13
What about my experience to witness yourself? What? So what about the close encounters? Give us the top one or two close encounters. The quick and dirty 30 seconds. Okay. So yeah, sitting out in the field at the edge of a alfalfa field, they’re going in and outta the fence at just one or two key spots. I picked the wrong one several times, but a couple times I picked almost the right one and had a shot at, you know, actually Nevada’s got some stu pots. I mean like, I’m not saying they’re giants, but pretty nice buck sitting there. Of course there’s hardly any cover. You’re camed up dug in as best I could. Got up the buck was heading toward the spot. My wind was bad. I knew I had to make some kind of quick reaction set up. Just got a little excited, sent one right over his back. Just was not patient enough with my rangefinder. I should arranged him again and just, I sailed it, man. Sailed it. But I will say, like, like I said in the one, I don’t know story or whatever it is on Instagram, dude, you have got to have, you’ve gotta have these early season and I’m sure all brands make ’em, but you know, uas early season, that iso chill shirt with the hood, when you’re laying in an alkaline flat, you have no idea how wonderful a hood is.
01:34:32:10 –> 01:35:46:26
I mean, just from wat to keep the sun off you. I thought it was the watt to keep the sun off you man. Oh, the sun. Just to keep the sun off your skin. It is a big deal. Have you thought it’s a big deal? Have you thought about sitting water in a blind or have you done any of that? Well, they’re going into pivots so they get all the water they need got, they get all the water dripping, dripping droplets on every leaf of alfalfa. Yep. So you’ve had some interesting hunt techniques. Country, you know, anyway, hey, we’re not gonna talk about ethics here, are we? No, I didn’t say no. It’s just that yeah, you’re, you, you’re trying to sneak up on an antelope with no cover higher than three inches. That good luck with all interesting techniques and any, any antelope is a trophy with a bow. Yeah, I feel that way. You know, you, you get done and you’re like, like these antelopes. See you on the dirt road 1200 yards away. You pull off the dirt road and you’ve got 200 sets of eyes staring you down. Like, ooh, what’s he gonna do? What’s he doing? So, because if you don’t go down there in a tractor or a four wheeler like, like you’re a farmer with, with tools banging off the back, you’re busted. So, lemme you got a John Deere for this next, are you gonna Yeah.
01:35:46:26 –> 01:36:53:08
Are you gonna rent a tractor? It would probably be a good idea. Tell truth, do it. It, it’s it. How much does an antelope mean to you, Jeff? We’re about to find out. Does it mean to drag a tractor from Utah to the middle of nowhere, Nevada? Hey, I don’t know. And maybe that mini X you got or something like that mini They don’t know the difference. Yeah. Take your plumbing mini X and just act like you’re putting in a new pivot pipeline. I don’t know dude. Just play the game two miles an hour. Just yeah, play the game. Play their game two miles an hour. That’s perfect. That’s perfect. Two miles an hour for something that can run consider Is that considered a motor? Considered a mo motorized vehicle. Hey, hey, hey. If take shot from a mini X, that’d be bad. Yeah, that would be bad. I I, I heard some these guys in Idaho shooting from a pivot and they got nailed. They got busted for that. Come on. Because it has an engine on it and it’s, well because it’s got a motor and it moves. Oh my. But they were, they seriously were sitting in a pivot and just, that’s slightly a’s a stretch. Good. Well Jeff, I, I dunno. Hey, give it one more. So, so just lemme go ahead and turn this back on you guys. Are you excited for tomorrow?
01:36:54:00 –> 01:38:04:07
Well, yeah, well we got kids and Saturday we don’t even know when we’re hunting for our selves, but we got kids that think that something’s gonna be dead by eight 30 and then they’re wondering what they’re gonna do it the rest of their day’s. Saturday though, right? Yeah. Saturday. Today’s Friday or no? No, today. Today’s Thursday. Today’s Thursday Today. That’s tomorrow. But we know what you meant, Jeff. Excited. It’s fun. We got, I’d love to see kids stick a buck. It it’s fun. It is fun. Ashley’s Exci is more excited than anyone and she’s not even hunting. She just fired up to help Sean Glass. She was disgusted. We didn’t have our blind set up 14 days ago. I mean, geez. She’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Heaven helpless. If women ever really got into, you know, if, if all of our family ladies who got into hunting because they might show us up. Yeah. Their, their dedication to certain details is better than, than just having four, four kids involved is gonna break a guy between the, they all need optics, they all need backpacks, they all, you just don’t, gearing up yourself is one thing. Gearing up the entire family, something else. So anyway. Oh, luckily we know somebody that can manage that, huh? Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Alright Jeff. Alright man. Good luck with the home stretch. Yeah. And we wanna break the news when an arrow collides with a buck. Yeah.
01:38:04:07 –> 01:38:37:09
Give us a holler. There you go. We’re gonna have you on a podcast at the keel site. Alright. Alright. Sounds good man. All be good guys. Yeah. Bye. There you have, it’s call Carter. That’s it. Let’s call. It’s a long one today, but we’re, hopefully it makes up for, you know, a good long weekend of good luck to everybody fashion grabbing. Good luck to the storm. We watch stories. Watch your stories. That’s right. Send send stories into [email protected] or Jason or [email protected]. We wanna see your successes. Best of luck to you all gonna start happening fast here. Good luck to everybody.
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