The Changing Landscapes of Hunting, Special Guest Tim Pask. In this episode we talk a lot about changes we are seeing in hunting this includes point creep, new regulations to keep up with advancements in technology, and adjustments due to social climate. We also call our good friend, Tim Pask, to talk about his Idaho Bighorn Sheep hunt.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:00:12 –> 00:01:11:19
You’ve been everywhere. It seems like you’ve done it all. Just as we were getting up to move positions, the ram we actually wanted walked into view. You can’t complain about the quality of deer and want every tool in the toolbox. You can’t do it. Anything to do with Western big games. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Adam Brons at Chris Peterson at the mic. Coming at you from Southern Utah. Sunny Southern Utah. Bronson, I think we’re gonna have to start. ac what do you think? I think this is the last podcast of the year that we’re AC free because it’s about ready to crank it on AC free. It’s like drug free or something. I’ll tell you, I was in Florida the last couple days and it’s warmer here than Florida. Was it? Somebody told me they saw you on Instagram with shorts first time probably ever. Really? Yeah. I just say I, we, we joked around it here. When I sitting there, I’m like, yeah, I’m 15 years or so of I’m Chris and I don’t think I’ve ever seen him in shorts. And I’m thinking, well, we did camp a lot together over the course of the last 10 years. Just videoing hunts and stuff. I’ve seen you in shorts, but not the shorts you were wearing over there. Yeah. Yeah. I told ’em, I said, take a good look.

00:01:11:23 –> 00:02:21:13
’cause it’s the last time you’re gonna see it. Did you, did they least get the edge knocked off ’em in terms of whiteness? Is the edge knocked off? And now if you wanted to wear ’em here, you could have again. I don’t, I don’t think so. Are you sunburned and hot over? I didn’t even, I didn’t get burnt at all. It’s cold down there, huh? Well, no. It was, it was nice. It was like sixties. Mid sixties. Yeah. Oh, but that’s not warming up. Windy. We’re talking in Gator country aren’t pretty windy down there in Florida. Yeah. Gators are still cold. All right, well what, what are we? Well, hallelujah. First. Okay, let guess Colorado’s over with. Oh no, they’re not. Well by the time you listen to this, yes, they’re not it. It is again, so for intent, all intents and purposes, it’s over and cheers. Cheers. Here we go. It’s over. We talked to a lot of people and while we’re on that subject, we might as well just go into this a little bit. What, what, what, what, what are people bringing their points to Colorado this year? Are watt. Holy freaking cow. It’s unbelievable. Then the amount of people with 15 plus 20 plus 25 plus. I’m like, what? And where have you been doing if we’re on the Colorado topic before we leave it? Let’s play. I’m gonna play a little game. Oh geez.

00:02:21:24 –> 00:03:47:17
Let’s just go, let’s rattle off two or three units or one whatever in the seasons. This is like the I’m eye doctor one versus two. Yes, that’s right. A. That is versus B Well, one. No, two A, B. This is just gonna be, I’m, I want a number. I want a over and under. You know, like when you bet on a game, there’s an over and under on on a point. Spread all that. And this is gonna be an over and under. I don’t points Fort Gamble. I don’t gamble very often. Well, we are right now. Chris used to play Pi G poker occasionally. Yeah. Well it’s kind of a push, you know, 50 50. Yeah. Good time. Alright, keep, what we’re gonna play is we’re gonna throw out some units and I want thoughts, the units that you think might have some of the biggest jumps in points. Second and third and fourth season from 2021 back to 2020. What it went from last year to 2021. What it’s gonna look like. Okay. Keeping in mind late dates. Everybody’s in a froth frenzy. Okay, I’m gonna, you, okay, you go, you go. I’ll do one. You do one and then I’ll do one. Okay. I’m gonna ask you this question. Ah, second season Colorado Unit 44. Okay. 2020 was eight. Guaranteed. Partial was a hundred percent with eight. Only 14% with seven. Okay. What’s the over and under on? I’m figuring 12.

00:03:47:22 –> 00:05:06:07
You think it’s over or under? Oh, it’s, it’s over 12 boss. Wow. Wow. Oh it is. We it’s gonna be that that sucker’s gonna hit 14. Pretty easy. Maybe. Maybe more. Okay. Don’t you think? Am I wrong? What do you think might be slightly high? I, I think the 12. Like you think 12. Get the odds. People in Vegas want to put it right about the 50 50 line. ’cause they get money on both sides and they wanna make I’d say 15 and a half. Oh. They do a lot of 0.5 stuff down there and it makes me mad. Yeah. You can’t have 0.5 of a point, but it means you have to be a full point on the other side of it. So I I you’re, you’re taking the over, I’m taking little. Oh yeah. I think it’s gonna be 12. That’s what you think. Or you would’ve say 4.5. Alright. Alright, well gimme one. Alright, we’ll stay within the second. Okay. 54 second. Okay. That was a guaranteed with two 80% draw with one. Okay. One assumption you have to also superimpose is that if tag numbers are gonna be relatively the same because if they had a hundred tags to to unit. So you’re quantifying your answer already. Well, okay. Because 44 we call ’em, they don’t have that. They won’t give you that number yet for another couple weeks.

00:05:06:10 –> 00:06:30:00
44 though for five years at least in a row it’s had 65 tags and about 18 to go to non-residents. But if you look at 54, it’s been from 135 to 325 within the last five years. That’s right. So it it four years? Yeah. Yeah. But if they, if they gave the same number of tags last year, let’s just say that that’s the caveat. I can say three. Okay. I buy that. I think you’re right. ’cause you’re dealing with could go a little 91 non-resident tags. Last year it was 80% with one. That ain’t happening this year. That’s right. Well yeah, because they give so many tags to and non-residents. 91 like you said, then you can bring on an influx of people. Yeah. And soak up that demand a little bit and not see huge jumps. Alright, conversely, let’s jump to third season. ’cause I think here’s some I could get interesting. Know what Chris, you know what I find interesting. What’s that? Every day Bronson would be like, I’m so looking forward to April 6th. I can’t wait for this to end. And what day is today, Chris? April 8th. Okay. And what are we talking about? The same thing and who brought it up? Adam, but I get to orchestrate the discussion. It’s different. Alright, so third season. Lemme find a juicy one here that I think, oh, Jesus has a high level of volatility. Juicy fruit. Okay, I’m still searching.

00:06:30:06 –> 00:08:03:07
This is not pre, pre-made. Well, let’s, I’ll give you, go ahead. You start, go ahead. 68 third. Okay, that was seven last year 73% was seven. So let’s just say the bulk of seven pointers. My money’s on 10 or more. Oh yeah. Huh? Oh yeah. Do you think Yeah. Double dig digits. It’s gonna hit 11 ish. I’ll you go, you go to tent. I’ll take 11 and up you take 10. 10 and down. And then what do we win? 500 springs. 500. Well what aren’t we doing the 500 for your muzzle? Well that’s another discussion. We gotta cross the bridge. I’ve got till May 1st to really? You got May one to lock in. Yeah. You know, we could find Antech. So I’ve got another one for you in that regard. Alright. It is, let’s move to the fourth so we can get out of this please. Okay. Real quick. 15 fourth. Oh, okay. So that one sees huge fluctuations just because of the tag numbers. Tag numbers. That’s right. Fourth season have the preponderance tendency, whatever the big acronyms and, and weird words are to describe increasingly hard to predict and big peaks, right? Is that what you’re talking about? All that? Alright. Because you’re dealing with 10 or 15 total tax. So few attack numbers. So few attack numbers last year that was 80% with four points. Okay. And it’s been seven plus in the past. I mean it’s, it’s had huge changes.

00:08:03:14 –> 00:09:19:00
What’s your over under number on that? I mean, I don’t know. That thing could go, who knows? But I’ll g not guarantee it. ’cause I just said who knows. It’s gotta be seven plus. I was gonna say seven, eight. Yeah. And, and, and this is not, we wanna base this off of just gut. We do not, as we hang up with you guys in your calls, we do not keep a tally and how many people we, we don’t, this is not based on, I keep track of who applies for what, how many points here and there. Here and there. But, but we don’t keep a tally and we know and can predict us with factual basis and the state could care less what we say. Yeah. Whoever applies applies. They don’t, they don’t ask, they don’t give a crap about what we say. Well, real quick to wrap up the deer in Colorado. Yeah, let’s wrap it up with muzz loader Bronson. Yeah. So I applied for points only. Okay. Alright. Okay. I I’m getting closer to that $500 bill. My only hope, I had many people send me second choice options. Some of units I’d never heard of in my life. Hey, picking a, we did you do a little research on 2 31? Seriously, Nevada? No, no. I’m, I’m talking about Colorado. No, I didn’t. I I I see, I know where it is on the map.

00:09:19:00 –> 00:10:26:21
I’ve hunted nearby, but I did did you know where it was before we talked about it two days ago? Kind of interesting. No, we both noticed at the same time for some reason. So, and it’s kind of included, included in another cluster. Think it’s the right zip code 12 cluster. Yeah. So somebody, anyway, email us a photo of a giant buck outta unit 2 31 in Colorado. Just do it Jason at epic outdoors do com. Yeah, I wanna see it. Somebody’s, somebody’s got something. Alright, well, so I I’m at the mercy of a turnback, which is gonna be difficult this year. We’ve talked about that. Or I guess a landowner tag and landowner tags for muzzle loader are not the easiest to find because there’s not very many of them and not a lot of landowners apply for those versus second or third seasons because they’re easy to get rid of second and thirds on late season date years. Muzzle loaders. Who wants that? But I’m gonna, I’m gonna still, well, there’s, I’m gonna still take your bet. You know what’s funny is the people that listen to the podcast, I mean, and we should call Jeff John, but I don’t want to today, we’ll give him a little bit of a break. But I know he plugged in for a muzzle order hunt and I half think it’s ’cause we talked about He did. He he he was proud of it. The day he applied.

00:10:26:24 –> 00:11:31:27
He texted me and you together. Yeah. And looked like a fist pump or something. Said all in on the mu this year something. And, and he’s, and he’ll smash a giant. He will. I mean he just, he’s gets lucky that way and and he’s part of it and he’s a good hunter. Part of it for me though too is, is now I’ve used my points, I’ve got my wife and kids with a lot of points, Jason, yours are kind of in the same position as mine. We, we’ve used our points and it’s a good year to use theirs to the extent possible. You can’t use ’em all perfectly because there’s only so many dates and some of ’em are in school and all that. But I anticipate maybe trying to have on some nice to average fun hunts with them. And so I figure muzzle loader is, is earlier than like, when I get busy in Utah this year, it’s a year off of our sheep and elk seasons. And some years they start the same day. So I got a full week to go over there even ahead of time and then a full week to hunt, to blow smoke at some. I can’t, I can’t wait for you to do that. I can’t either. I’m excited talking about it. I really am. So anyway, so, but yeah, so it’ll be, it’ll be interesting to see what comes of it all.

00:11:31:28 –> 00:12:41:19
So, but I could back out at any moment and I’ll third season with the rest of y’all. Yeah, that’s right. How can you let the late dates go, bro? It’s hard. Okay. I’m quivering already. Yep. Just write the, write the check. So anyway, how about, you know, it’s tough enough to get your own draw strategy. You mentioned the kids and I’ve told you about Ashley Kaman my youngest. I know she’s a killer of all killers. She’ll have alligator tears when she finds, I don’t know what I’m gonna do with her. Well the problem is she’s only got one or two points. Yeah. She’s 14 or something and so she can’t, and so if I’ve got kids, what options if I’ve got kids and wife lined up for second and fourth and maybe me being selfish on the third, what does that, what am I gonna do with Ash? You know what I mean? It’s muscle loader’s decent. No, no it’s not. It’s open sight with Ash. No. Hey. Alright. Should take it. Just don’t let her sit home. Shoot. You’re not gonna, oh, it’ll be out with that one. Be, oh, so she’s already talking about, what am I doing, dad? All right. Moving out of the house if you don’t have her deer tag. That’s right. Well, so what I wanna do, so let’s give our listeners the epic experience. Okay?

00:12:42:07 –> 00:14:07:27
We don’t, our office does not know we’re gonna call ’em, we’re gonna call in, we’re gonna get the head secretary. She’s awesome. Most likely will, unless she’s on the other line. And then let’s see where get transferred to though. Let’s, let’s, let’s go, let’s go to Holly and see what our license app department’s doing. Now keep in mind Bronson, our license app department’s like four people deep. But I think Holly, we roll with things we make the other ones maybe a little bit nervous. I don’t know. Might all we can’t make. Holly might, they might all be nervous. So I don’t know. What do you think? Let’s just see if she’s, glad Colorado’s done. Okay. All right. Let’s see what first we’re gonna hear from Wendy. Hopefully they’re, there’s a spring in their step. Yeah, they’re jovial. They’re jovial right now to the outdoors. This is Wendy. Wendy. Hey, how are you? Good, how are you? This is Jason and Adam, I’m nervous because I know you guys are doing a podcast. So did you recognize our voice? Well, she has your number probably Carter, she No, this is Oh, did my number show in on the caller id? Yeah. Oh, there was no, there’s no surprise. All right, well, don’t be nervous. I’m not mad at you. Okay. Adam is No. Okay. No, he is not. He is not. Hey, we just want to talk to Holly. Is she, is she available? Yeah, she is.

00:14:07:27 –> 00:15:34:21
Hang on, we want to, all right, perfect. Thanks. Oh yeah, hang on. She’s awesome. Hey, I didn’t know we had music. This is this you Chris, dude? I guess so. Is it? I never called our line. I was like, that sounds familiar. Wow. He’s, we need a little update on that though. The epic experience. Hey, mixed with Chris. Let’s just looking at the stall. There’s no city life. I don’t ever wait on hold. I’ve never did you know this was, I had no idea. Chris would probably owe you royalties. Probably where she plays it. Hello? It says there was a long silence there. How come you didn’t just pick it up and say Epic Outdoors? This is Holly. How can I help you please? Because Holly was in the kitchen scanning documents. Oh. Oh, gotcha. You’re too busy and you had to run across. Well, we just had a random thought with, we’re, we’re celebrating a little bit in here that Colorado is done, even though it’s not done, it’s extended. But by the time, bro listened to this, it’s done. So for, for the sake of the listeners, it’s done. How does that make you feel, Holly? Absolutely. Fantastic. And why, why would you say that? It’s a big state, right? It’s a giant state, but it’s also got for licensed application ladies like Holly and Journey and Sydney is, is username passwords. Right? Guys, go check stuff.

00:15:34:25 –> 00:16:53:12
They maybe buy a weird license a certain time of the year. Change their password, their points change their passwords, and that creates some work. Yes. So you’re glad it’s over? Yes. I’m glad it’s over. But you guys did a heck of a great job, wouldn’t you say? Thank you. Crushed it. Crushed it. Now what, what’s on the front burner now? What are we working on now? We’re just kind of teeing off a new Nevada. Nevada, and it’s a giant one Nevada. Yep. Getting Hunter education’s validated. So good point there. What do we, who’s the, what do we mean by and who’s doing the hunter eds? And it sounds like you’re scanning documents. Yep. Anyone that’s n to Nevada, we have to get copies and send them off and get ’em validated so that we can get their applications done. That’s right. There’s a prerequisite. They gotta see that you have it, not just type in a number and check a box to say you have one. They wanna see if you’re born after 1960. They wanna see proof. Exactly. So have, is Wyatt doing anything or is he taking the day off back there? I couldn’t really tell you. I, I hope he is working back there getting some Nevada coding done for us. But I think he, I think he is. Well think he, yes, he’s multitasking over there. How about we, is he, can you see if he’s on the other line right now?

00:16:53:15 –> 00:18:10:11
Maybe we’ll just have you transfer after we’re done. We’ll have you transfer us to Wyatt and we’ll make sure he is not wondering. We’ll leave him out. We don’t want, we don’t want him fell left out. We don’t want him looking for something to do either. Nope, he’s available. Okay. Well thanks Holly. We appreciate you guys crush it. And our, our license guys are in good hands. Thank you. All right. Yep. Awesome. Thanks. Getting the full epic experience. He’s not gonna know. Do you think he id What do you guys want? What? What’s, are you in the office? How did you know I am in the office? Yeah, you mean the call gets transferred three times like that? It comes through as Carter’s number still. They warned you. They warned you. It does. No, it says Jason Carter right here. I wanna read your telephone number off too, just for star six seven U like I do, like I do the, the states, well we just, we called, we’re getting epic experience for our callers today. We called and chatted with Wendy for a minute, chatted with Holly about how happy she was about Colorado being done and what was new on the front burner. And how about you? Why do you still a little bummed that Colorado’s behind us. Yeah, yeah. It’s a, it’s a good one to have behind us moving on to, you know, of course Nevada now.

00:18:10:12 –> 00:19:29:29
So you’ve even kind of done a, you know, a last minute or a few last minute guys for Colorado. Yeah, yeah. We’ve been able to get and I You welcome, you welcome new clients at the last minute, right? Yeah. Always welcome new clients, right? Well, good. So you’re working, sounds like you were coding Nevada. It seemed like you had blown through several hundred. Yeah. Just, just coding Nevada getting ready to go for our guys. So we’re caught up on that. You know what I, what are some high points in your mind? Why with Nevada? Holly talked about what she was doing. We talked about the prerequisite to get your hunter ed for your first time applicant born after 1960. Get that all registered in your account before they’ll quote, unlock it and tell you you’re good to go. But what are some other high points that you’re seeing running across or vibes in your mind? Just, just their simple system probably would be one of the high points in Nevada they make, can make it easy for guys to apply and change and plug and play and be able to change for free plug and play. So yeah. So what I like too is, you know, Wyatt is, as we’re coding our guys and, and Nevada and whatnot, is, there’s so many options. You got five choices on the application and you can get creative and I like that. Everybody’s application’s unique to them. Yes.

00:19:30:21 –> 00:20:48:21
So anyway, anything to add to that, Wyatt? No, I think, I think I better get back to work. Well, all right, all right. That sounds good. Well, we’ll be there shortly. I let you guys play. Come on. Well, it’s, come on, it’s this podcast room’s really hot and it’s, it’s unbearable in here, but somebody’s gotta do it. All right, guy. Okay. Talk to you. Bye. Well anyway, there’s the epic experience folks. Nice, happy people. I can’t believe I, I guess the caller ID rings all the way through to everybody. Yeah, there’s no surprises. You’re gonna have to start six, seven people. We will, you know, it’s like we, we have friends that check on their employees, drive through their own, drive through and just kind of test them. We don’t do that. No. Our, our guys are good gals. They’re awesome. Yeah. Well, Bronson, in addition to Colorado and the march issue, of course we covered Idaho, sheep, goat, moose. Yeah, kind of far. We haven’t talked about it too much yet because it comes out way early, but it’s not due till April 30th. So, and you know, we’re, you and I are constantly, you know, every once in a while, you know, we, we choose moose and I drew one. Okay. And then once in a while, we choose every once in a while. Once in the last 46 years. That was once in a while, a long while.

00:20:48:26 –> 00:22:02:29
We basically got dared to put in for it one year we did it back in the day and to courage, some new stuff we put in for neighboring units. We did a smashing grab and you drew and I didn’t and I’ve never applied for ’em since. Okay. But, okay. And then having said that, once in a while, pretty regular we apply for sheep and if you apply for sheep, you can’t do any of the others, including deer and elk, an antelope for the special limited entry. That’s right. Units. So one consideration. Yeah, again, there’s no points in Idaho. Probably the biggest high point, all residents and non-residents are thrown in the same hat together. Not like some states like say Utah or Colorado quotas where they set aside Nevada, whether you set aside and the non-residents fight it out amongst themselves and you can add up the number of non-resident applicants and calculate odds. Idaho isn’t like that. You all apply for the same areas everywhere and you have a 10% statewide cap governing, non-resident sheep, moose, and goat applicants, but also no more than 10% within a unit, which works out to be one, you know, no more than one in a unit. That’s right. And if you know, so it’s a little bit, you never know year to year, which, where are non-resident tags gonna come out. That’s right. That a lot of people say, do you start the front the back?

00:22:03:02 –> 00:23:13:28
No, it doesn’t matter. You get lucky and draw a great number. They basically rank you from let’s say one to, I don’t know, four, 5,000 sheep applicants residents, non-resident combined. There’s about 2000 non-residents that apply. And as they start drawing and issuing tags, you gotta remember, as they draw non-residents, every other non-resident in that same unit is now out of the draw because you can’t draw more than one in each unit. So a lot of times you’ll see Jason unit 11 sheep tag goes to a non-resident. Well rarely regular it does there most, most. And most of the time there’s three to four, three to 400 people put in there. And so if that guy draws one boom, there’s three to 400 non-residents outta the draw. Well, and you got 350, you know, 352 and the odds are one in 4 33, the lion’s share of non-residents. So they, the odds kind of, it’s kind of like a progressive raffle. It gets better as they go. As you kick non-residents out of each unit as they draw that they can’t draw a second TA tag in that unit. So it’s, it’s very hard to calculate, I guess. True. So how do you quantify everything you just said on paper and I want to know what my odds are. You don’t. Okay. You, you just simply list the number of total applicants per hunt and the number on residents per hunt like we do and the odds.

00:23:14:02 –> 00:24:35:02
And that gives you based off of the fact that or or up until when we met our quota. That’s right. Those are the odds. Those are the right odds until we meet our quota. That’s right. Alright, well let’s call a guy. Let’s call a guy that hunted chief. We in Idaho. Yeah. Give Tim PAs a call. Good buddy of ours. Awesome tech client. Been, you know, client for years. Let’s give him a holler. Just, I don’t know what he’s doing today. He might not even answer Bronson. I don’t know. Let’s see what he says. Hello. Are you fishing in some remote corner of the world right now? I’m actually holding my Idaho deer. What is it? My hands and I, which one? It’s my white tail off. It’s my white tail off my farm. Oh, I was just rubbing your name. It’s got my form in, so he told me to bring the antlers over. Gotcha. Oh, this is Adam. Adam and Jason here. We’re on the podcast and so we’re calling famous sheep hunters from last year in Idaho. And you came to mind, so you’re sorry you picked up today? Yeah, I, I actually just got my form. The form came in from my Idaho, my owner of my taxidermist. So I’m pretty excited, so That’s awesome. Good camp picked out for him. Well, hey, not to put you on the spot and you, and you’re a busy guy.

00:24:35:07 –> 00:25:39:23
We just, I’m, I’m grateful you answered. Of course. We are here at Epic Outdoors. Just, just wanted a quick rundown. You know, you, we applied you of course you had all the luck, we just did the paperwork, but, you know, tell us a little bit about how that hunt went down. I know it’s a very aggressive country. I, Idaho has some of the most aggressive country there is in the lower 48, but you ended up with a great ram. I just, we just kind of want to get a quick rundown of that. Well, the first thing I wanna tell you on thank you guys, because the knowledge you have is far more than I have and, and it’s always confusing for guys like me to know where to put in and, you know, the units and it’s just, it’s really confusing. And so back in the day, you know, I was always taking a wild guess trying to figure it out. But I really appreciate the help. And I have to tell you, when I, when I got the email that said I was successful, I read it, I don’t know, three times. And I got this big adrenaline blast. Oh yeah. And my, that’s my wife walked. That’s as good as killing it. That’s as good as, it’s crazy. My wife walked in and looked at me, said, what’s wrong?

00:25:40:01 –> 00:26:59:09
You know, and I was like, I think I drew a sheep tag, but I was still questioning whether I had or not. And so in fact I did. And yeah, so it was a surprise. And in many facets, I I I’ve been on a lot of sheep hunts and you prepare the best you can, but I will tell you that I’ve been around, gone to a lot of places, but I’ve never seen country like that before. Honestly, it, it’s as big as anything I’ve ever seen anywhere. Even in your home states. Just mind blowing. Yeah. And, and it, I feel kind of bad because I should have been down there, you know, I lived here and I hadn’t been in that area yet. So I was, I kind of heard about it and I’ve driven past some of that country, never been in the middle of it, but it’s as big as any place I’ve ever been. And the difference, maybe not in elevation or maybe not even elevation gains, but the elevation gain in a short period. In other words, you could start at the bottom and it’s pretty much straight up. It’s, I’ll give you an idea of, of we, we spotted early in the hunt, we spotted a band of rams and then like every other sheep hunt I’ve been on, we had rain and fog and wind and all kinds, everything that can go wrong does. And we lost the rams.

00:26:59:26 –> 00:28:14:07
So we did some pretty good hikes outta camp looking for other rams. And we found a band of Rams that we almost went for. And we probably hiked, I don’t know, several hours to get to a better position to glass ’em. And then we decided we were gonna be out for at least a full day without gear if we were gonna go for ’em. And we weren’t sure that they were bigger than the Rams we’d seen out of camp. So we ended up going back to camp and Divid devising a plan that, hey, if we can find those rams again, we, we wanna get a better look at it and then make the decision to go. So the next day, luckily the weather was great and we glassed up the Rams from camp, and now granted they’re, they’re straight across from camp, so it doesn’t look like it’s that far. So we, we ended up, we ended up taking off go straight down off the top. Straight down, yeah. And straight up. And it would’ve been the, probably the shortest hunt that I possibly could have had. And it just absolutely gutted me getting over there. Wow. It was just, it was, it was amazing. And it, and it did take some hours. And then of course once you, once you get up on top, you’re hoping, you know, they’re still there. And, and it was, it, that country had burned years before.

00:28:14:21 –> 00:29:22:21
So the, it was perfect camouflage for those bedded rams to try to find. And we were looking back and a guy in camp would had a flag hanging up if the rams were still there. So we, we’d go up and we’d glass back, and at one point we were pretty close to the top and we glass back and didn’t see the flag. So we, we, we convinced ourselves the rams weren’t there. And luckily we repositioned and found out we just couldn’t see the flag from that position. And geez. And sure enough, so the Rams were still there, we climbed up on top, but we’d snuck up over top of them. And I bet it was five or six times looking down, trying to not only find the rams, but then when you could find the Rams, you couldn’t find all the rams. And then you’re trying to decide which one was that big ram that you were looking for. And as easy as it sounds, it’s, it’s a lot harder when you’re above something looking into that burnt timber trying to pick that ram out. It’s all rolling away from you and all that. Yep, yep. And so it was kind of funny because we had convinced ourselves that the ram we were after was betted to kind of our left and hid and we couldn’t really seem that good.

00:29:23:08 –> 00:30:26:12
And just as we were getting up to move positions, the ram we actually wanted walked into view. It wasn’t even, we, we never even seen him before. You know, we knew, we knew he was there, but we hadn’t seen him yet. And he walked in from our right. So we were gonna, we were gonna move to position on, on the wrong ram. Wow. And, and then, so all of a sudden now it’s go time it went from, you know, looking hard trying to find the ram to like Yeah. Kill him. And I gotta tell you, I I wasn’t, I wasn’t really in kill mode yet. Yeah. I was just, I was looking down, trying to think about what I was gonna do and then all of a sudden was get, get him on the ground because as you guys know better than me is that, you know, it happens quick and they could be there and you can have your shot one second and it can all be falling apart the next And wind was swirling. And, and so anyway, I, I shot and I was pretty sure that I hit the ram, you know, I hit him pretty hard and the, the the guy with me says, oh, you missed him. And I was like, are you sure? And he goes, yeah, you missed him. And he goes, he’s running, he’s running right there.

00:30:26:12 –> 00:31:26:05
Tried to shoot him, you know, and I’m trying to get in scope and there’s Rams running around. And I’m like, I gotta tell you man, I, I don’t, I don’t think I missed him. And he goes, yeah, I saw him run out. I saw him run out of there, you know, and so I said, well, we, we need to go down there and, and look and, and luckily he, when I’d shot him, he, he moved forward and flipped underneath this burnt log and just went outta sight. And then of course all the other rams took off. And it was easy to, it was easy to, to decide that I had missed. Yeah, yeah. It was easy. So you never wanna hear that though, you know. No, and, and we’re all confident guys, so I mean, I, I know when I make a pretty good shot, but even, even when you’re like, I made a great shot and the guy said, you missed, you’re like, oh, oh crap. You know, somehow I, something happened, you know, I did miss. But so we, we got, we got down to the ram and I don’t, I mean, you guys have done it. I mean, it’s like walking up on a, onto a big mule deer or just, just something that you prized kind of a sacred moment. Yeah.

00:31:26:19 –> 00:32:36:12
Anything else, you know, and you’re kind of that speechless looking at it and it’s almost like it’s not really, really this really, yeah. Did this really happen? And, and I’m one of the guys that that understands and really appreciates that, you know, you hear the stories about guys who, you know, put in once and drew a tag miracle tag of some sort, you know? And, but I really, I really, really appreciated the opportunity and what that tag was worth. And I really appreciate you guys helping me get that tag because honestly I’m sure I wouldn’t have got it. I just wouldn’t have got it. And that opportunity kind of pushed me forward because it was my second big horn. And once you get two of those, it’s, it’s pretty hard not to go for your second grand slam. Is that, so we just cost you a bunch of money, a lot less fishing trips. Yeah, you absolutely did. And I actually might have concluded that second one had covid not hit because I like me, like, like you guys, like everybody had other trips that got pushed and my, my trip that got pushed was a stone sheep hunt up in, up in the Yukon, which would’ve finished my second slam Wow. If I had gotten one.

00:32:36:16 –> 00:33:42:01
So not only did it push it the year that I was supposed to go, it pushed me out two years because totally of guys already having hunts booked this year. This year. So you’re not going this, this year no matter what then. Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn’t going this year. So now it doesn’t, it doesn’t look like, unless you guys know different that I’m not sure Canada up again doesn’t feel good. It doesn’t feel good. Yeah. Nope. Well, I think it, I think it speaks volumes. You’ve been everywhere. It feels like, Tim, you’ve, you, you’re my idol. You’ve been everywhere. Fishing, hunting, you’ve done it seems like you’ve done it all. Guys that follow you on Instagram know that and guys that don’t go check him out Tim Pask. But just to say that this is, you know, one of the most brutal hunts that you’ve done says a lot. Yeah. And you’ve been a lot of places. And the Frank Church will make grown men cry. Cry. I’m not gonna ask you if you cried. I will ask you one, one thought that crossed my mind. You had a flag that the, the camp guy was supposed to put up, the rams are still there. Did he give you a white flag that you’re supposed to put up or said, I’m tapping out and this is, this climb over here is not worth it tapping out.

00:33:42:24 –> 00:34:54:16
No, I, I will have to admit to stopping a few more times going up the hill than I, than I thought I was gonna have to. And, and I, I, you know, alls I can say is that if, if you’re gonna apply for the Frank Church, if you’re gonna spend time in there, you, you just can’t get in good enough shape. In other words, just keep, just keep grinding shape and grinding and grinding. No matter if you think you’ve reached it where I’m good enough to go. You have not. So yeah. And, and then after that it’s just mental, you know? Yep. You just, that’s right. You just gotta go. And, and, well, not everybody kills ramp either. I mean, know, obviously some people physically can’t. But then the, you know, even guys that draw are in shape. We’ve had friends that go and they come back with their tag un punched, you know, bad luck or even if you’re in shape, bad luck, bad weather, fire, just weird movements of sheep. There’s such a sprinkling land in Yeah. Such a sprinkling of sheep there in huge where everything looks like it’s a possibility, but there’s not sheep everywhere. So it’s just a, it’s really a needle in a haystack in that country when it’s so vast, so big, all of it looks like sheepy country and they’re not everywhere. So yeah, it’s amazing how big it is and how few rams are actually in there.

00:34:54:18 –> 00:36:02:03
I mean, I don’t know what the density level is compared to other places, but Yeah, it’s, you’re not gonna find ’em in every, every sheep basin does not hold ram. And it’s, it’s different. It’s much different than a lot of country I’ve been in where you, you could roll up in glass and you’re 80% sure that, you know, sheep lived there and you’re probably gonna find one. And that’s not the case over there. So they’re obviously, they’re nomadic like everywhere else, but the country’s so big and so vast and they’ve got so many opportunities and you gotta have the secret water spot, so on and so forth. It’s a little bit, that country is a little bit like chasing big mule deer, I think, because it’s, it all looks good, but only a few spots hold them, you know? Yeah, I was just wondering you like big mule deer? Did you see any in there? I, I did not. And if, and if so, where are they? This is, this is good. When Tim starts getting really quiet, I saw two mule deer. I glassed up two mule deer dough, not a single buck. Geez. And, but you know, that place, that place has a few hidden giants. I I think there’s probably easier places to go look for ’em, but yeah, they’re, if if you kill one in there, you tell you you’ve, you’ve earned him. ’cause Yeah, I, yeah.

00:36:02:05 –> 00:37:04:05
I just, I, I couldn’t, it was such an amazing experience. I, I just feel blessed to, to, to be able to get in there and come out with a great ram. It’s such a bonus. And well, and again and again. Honestly, I would not have drawn that tag without you guys. I would not have. And I really appreciate that. Well I think it’s just, you know, we went out on a limb. Thanks for giving, knowing us the reins. I guess that’s basically, that’s right. We went out on a limb knowing what you’re capable of and, and it worked out. So yeah, it worked out great. So let’s do it again. Yeah. Well this year, yeah, we got a bought lot pending. So hopefully we got you with good news or a good email coming soon. But you’re getting ready to give those turkeys heck up there, aren’t you? Oh yeah, no, I was, I was actually just went and got my second Turkey tag too today and my bear baiting tag. So there you go. I’m, I’m, yeah, it’s always a season coming up. Yep. You kill everything. Alright buddy. Well alright man. Thanks for the coming. Thanks again for answer. Thanks a lot Tim. We appreciate it. Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. Really appreciate it. You okay, take care. Alright, bye bye. Pretty awesome. Maybe we need to put in for sheep. Let’s do it. Seriously, Bronson we did last year.

00:37:04:06 –> 00:38:27:11
Oh well we do about every year and occasionally if I’m busy, like, I dunno the year I thought I, maybe not busy, I’m always busy, but sometimes like the August 30th opener, which is the opener for most of the sheep punts up there. Not all, but I, you know, I, sometimes I’m tied up right then with something I can’t avoid. Whether it’s a, maybe a statewide sheet punter, something like that. And I, I don’t like to miss that. And I don’t wanna always just look to the end of October for some of the later hunts. ’cause sometimes I’m busy then too. So I’ve had to do deer, elk. But for those of you that are interested in applying for moose, sheep, or goat, the deadline is April 30th at 1159 Mountain Time you do have to buy a non-refundable hunting license, which for non-residents has gone up. It’s 185 bucks. They also charge a $45 75 cents controlled hunt application fee. They also charge internet convenience fees to all of that. Also, also, also, also 3% of the total. So it’ll end up being, even though there’s no points or anything like that with your hunting license app fees, 3% fees, it’ll be about 325 bucks non-refundable outta your pocket. And they do also make you pay the permit fee free front, which also went up to 2,600 drive nods, which helps your dry odds. And it also in theory helps drying odds.

00:38:27:24 –> 00:39:39:16
So anyway, there’s a lot of alsos in there. But having said that, that’s why we’re here. That’s what we do. We help people get tags and give you options. And Tim got one, somebody’s gonna get ’em. And at first we were ashing our teeth about the prices. Okay? The non-refundable prices mostly. Okay, let’s, having said that, what’s the price of a rocky tag going for in the world right now? Okay, 80 to 150,000 beats the price of a book. Cliff Deer tag going for, for archery here in Utah. I mean you Yeah, 12 sheep, sheep hunters are romantics. They’re, they’re dreamers, right? And 325 bucks for most sheep hunters. That’s the best 325 bucks I’ve ever spent in my life. If I have a chance to hunt sheep, take your Biden bucks and apply it. I know, that’s what I think. All right, so anyway, we went from Trump change to buy Biden bucks. Well, Trump, Trump changed. I want Trump to be the president, but Trump’s not right now. And Biden’s handing out money like it’s, but it’s printed on the daily. But it sounds like when you say Biden bucks, that’s sounds like a positive thing. And it’s like, well, I mean they’re bucks in your pocket. Okay. Alright. So anyway, so speaking of tag prices, you know we’re getting some of these tag prices. We’re watching auctions pretty much weekly, bro. Out Hunt and fish

00:39:40:06 –> 00:40:55:17
I mean, you watched some go last night, two or three a week. There’s 20 some that ended last night and a bunch this weekend. They’re coming three organizations between Mule Deer Foundation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, sportsman Proficient Wildlife. Yeah, I think National Wild Turkey Federation of Utah will have some on there. There’s a lot of tags that are out there. The Epic Federation. We need to do one. Did I say that? No, but we need one. We need to do an epic. We need a Epic C3 branch. We do. What would we, what would our coss be? I just, well, we’re gonna, we haven’t talked about preserve, preserve big stuff, wildlife and stuff. Milder. That sounds very sheep. Very refined. We’re gonna preserve stuff. Big stuff. Yeah. Sugar and canning, preserve his stuff. Big B, big box all. Alright. Probably not gonna do 5 0 1 C through organization, but those are set up. Maybe, maybe Bronson, what else are we gonna do when we get old? I can think of a lot of things like what gum you’re gonna burn your antelope points. That’s for Juan in Colorado. That’s the one thing we’re gonna do. And we’re gonna keep hunting. Hunting where we can hunt. It’s fun and enjoyable. Chris, what are you writing down? Editing something out. What are you gonna edit out? I not, at 45 minutes and 22 seconds. Cut all this. He’s gonna go apply for Idaho Sheep. What do you do?

00:40:55:17 –> 00:42:12:24
What did you just write down? Oh, well it’s, it’s not, I can’t read. It says Red Rock Precision. Yeah. Oh, go ahead Bronson. We don’t have big cue cards. Sometimes they’re cue cards on the fly, but yellow, yellow sticky notes. They’ve been Red Rock Precision. Kurt Pilcher and his crew there. They’ve been partners of ours from literally day one when we said we’re, we’re in business doing our thing. Epic outdoors. Rended, we support to support us. That’s right. Love their guns. We’ve shot their guns even before that for many years. We, we all have one of their guns that we’ve bought and used at some of their schools. And in the field, whatever you’re looking for, whether you’re looking for an all around gun or a lighter weight, sheep, mountain goat type gun, they can do it. Call ’em with a cause call, call ’em with a purpose in terms of what your intended use is gonna be for it. Not all rifle, you don’t need a 3 38 or 300 ultra for everything you, you hunt. But Kurt can help you pick the right optic combination, everything like that. Red Rock Great guys. Probably not too late to get going. Sooner the better. As there’s been a lot of, I, I don’t know specifically in the Red Rock world, but in most other worlds of optics and hunting related gear and anything else in the world, there’s backlogs with inventory and product delivery.

00:42:13:10 –> 00:43:29:24
So if you’re thinking, get moving and make it happen. Well, one thing I did wanna point out, we did talk about the tag prices. We’ve also had some cancellations. Bronson, we had a brown bear hunt come in, two of them out on the peninsula on the very on out on the end for 27.5 for a pair. Guys, we not only sold ’em, but have a waiting list. That’s crazy. And back to kind of that theme, if you’re looking for something, don’t delay. And, and we’re not saying this as a sales pitch, but because we’ve seen it for a year solid now with the impact that Covid has had on the inability to get to places like Canada or the inability or some people’s lack of desire to go to other places, foreign places. There’s been an incredible amount of pressure on the Western North America hunts, the deer, elk, antelope, sheep, moose, goat hunts, you know, all Alaska, everything and stuff is not lasting. There are not deals. Everybody thought when this hit last year gonna be a bunch of great deals. It’s the exact opposite. There’s it’s supply and demand. It’s the toilet paper principle. That’s what we started with and that’s what we’re ending with. We’re. Okay, well, yes. So I just wanna add on, we also had deer tags. We have deer tags now. We had deer tags. So things are selling like crazy elk hunts, whatever we do it.

00:43:30:01 –> 00:44:49:16
Devin here in the office keeps us posted on all the openings out there, Bronson. And we try to keep track of everything. And so anyway, if you’re looking for a hunt, it’s not hopeless. We do have stuff. Give us a holler. 4, 3, 5, 2, 6, 3, 0, 7, 7, 7. Bye Chris. But, but with tag prices, you may just be better off to buy some, buy some hunting ground. Yeah, hunting ground. Where did this come? You keep that forever. Okay. Or sell and pay taxes on it forever. Or sell. Or sell. Your hunting ground may come with tags. How about or sell your hunting ground. Sell it will, it will sell. Oh, all right. It’ll, it’ll sell. It’s better with a whale on it. Go ahead. Go try. Go try to buy a piece of property around Cedar City right now to put a house on bro. Said you can’t by a quarter acre. Yeah. Here, that’s what’s what we’re talking about. Alright. And recreational properties kind of no different. But if you’re in the game to either buy or sell some western recreational hunting, ranch fishing type property, get Blaine St. James and his crew at St. James Sporting properties a call. Great crew. They work in multiple western states. Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Montana, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Wyoming. They’re based in Colorado, but that’s not all they know. Make that clear. Blaine’s been a great friend of ours. He’s a very avid hunter, very close.

00:44:49:27 –> 00:46:08:09
I can’t remember only a couple species I think of missing on the North America 29 himself. So he’s been there, done that in a lot of places, seen a lot of great places, property wise, hunting areas, sj sporting, sj sporting is the best way to check ’em out on the web or their phone number. (877) 354-7247. If you, you know, are looking for anything like that or know somebody that is, or know somebody that’s trying to sell property, give them a call. It’s a great time to sell. I’m telling you right now, I great time to sell. And when’s a bad time to buy? Think about this. Every time we’ve thought about you think about houses or anything else, you’re, you think I’m buying it so high, it’s so high and in one year it’s gone up. It’s appreciated so much that you’re ecstatic that you bought back when you did. There’s just a new normal crash. Your house, there’s just a new, there’s just new. You could retire on the difference, huh? Maybe not retire, but I don’t know, maybe couple hundred grand though. It’s dumb easy. How about that? But, well that’s a lot of wages. Alright, well, where are we at? Okay, well, Bronson and I and I do like Blaine St. James, you know one thing that’s kind of funny about playing St. James, where does he come up with all these giant deer pics?

00:46:09:01 –> 00:47:28:00
No, these trail cameras on these ranches, I think, what do you mean? I don’t know. I think he knows a lot about where Big Deer are, but he doesn’t tell us a lot because we were on his website and we’re like, what? Where’s this, what’s this? But maybe they’re proprietary. Proprietary to the buy that I’m the ranch that they came on and he knows more than he’s leading on. That’s all I know. But he is keeping track because he is a hunter. He is keeping track of these properties that produce big animals. And you know, of course he’s interested in that. He, he sends me video clips of him fishing, catching 10 pounders and Browns and whatever. I’m like, what are you doing? Anyway, good dude to visit with. He’s wealth of knowledge and hunting as well as properties. All right, so we did partner with Triple S, Polaris, they’re incredible here in Cedar City, Utah. Known for their service, their expertise, and building exactly what you need. We’ve sent a lot of guys to ’em anyway, give them a holler. Triple S Polaris, if you’re looking for a Razor, A Ranger, what else do they make? The General four wheelers. Any, anything Polaris Street Bikes, accessories. They, they specialize in building a custom vehicles for whatever you need it for. So ss and they will service us anything and will help you no matter where you live. 4 3 5 8 6 5 0 100.

00:47:28:03 –> 00:48:33:11
Tell ’em where you heard you heard it first. Right here. The Epic Outdoors podcast. Alright, well I don’t know if we’re down, are we down to the end, Bronson? I don’t know. We need to give somebody a Ted Chris, what do you wanna talk about? What’s the ticker say? 45. 55. I’m guessing 54. Yeah, you’re close. Nailed it. What do you got? Six minutes? No, you gonna make all everybody’s dreams come through six? No, we did a two and a half hour one last month. Remember that? Yeah, we’re just getting started long. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If I, Chris on the back of this magazine, is this a picture of you? That is, where did they, where did Under Armour take a picture of you at? Down in New Mexico. Oh yeah, that’s right. Oh, Chris had a question though. I don’t you you got, you were on, you had a train thought, talked about, you know, I may be applying with reckless abandon this year, right? You mean trying to get any tag you can get? What does that mean? Just applying? Because it’s the last year of what? I’ll have a hundred percent control. Oh yeah, that’s coming up. What do you mean percent percent’s engaged? He’s engaged. Chris is a weird saying. My wife is that weird. No’s great. Your wife’s gonna take care of it, all of it for you next year. That’s actually better. She’s pretty good at taking care of.

00:48:33:11 –> 00:49:45:23
Yeah, she’s very Chris, they’re just random groceries show up in our fridge for you. But I, I do all the applications. Oh, okay. A hundred percent’s a lie. Okay. No, it’s not a lie. I do hundred. Okay. I do a hundred percent of the applications. So your thought was yes, we know you’re playing with reckless abandon. What revelation do you have for us? My question is, okay, Idaho, so I’m looking at, okay, possibly sheep, possibly moose. Come on Chris. Serious. Okay. What’s, what, what’s pluses? What do I dos? Pluses, minuses. Well, ah, the odds are much better on moose. No question about it. Because I like moose. More people don’t choose them over sheep. Sheep numbered tag numbers are, you know, roughly a hundred versus 500 total tags for moose. So they give a lot more tags and if you have to choose between one of the three, most people are gonna pick, pick moose over. So if you want, just from an odd standpoint, and they do Jason have quality bulls? They do. They got a lot of units was like 40 something inch, low forties. But, but not a, not a giant, I’m not saying he was a giant, but it, it was great for what it was didn’t, it didn’t cost me any points. They don’t have points. Yeah.

00:49:45:27 –> 00:50:51:21
But I think the other thing, Chris, you, everybody’s unique, like maybe we are after a sheep, you know, I, we’ve killed a California big horn, but I want a true Rocky, maybe you’re mountain goat guy. I don’t know Chris. Well for me, moose is a, is a priority for me. It’s a high priority. Okay, so you’re doing moose. It’s something I wanna do. I would, I would highly consider it. And the only consideration you have to make, ’cause I know you like elk and mule deer too, is alright if I choose that I can’t do elk and mule deer later. That deadline is later June 5th. We’re actually working on that now. And so that’s the biggest decision you gotta make. You gotta, you got till the 30th to decide to apply for the moose and it cost a little bit more because the application fee’s a little bit higher and they make you fee pay the sheep or moose or goat fees at the time of applying and ding you 3% for that. So you’re gonna end up being, instead of about 200 bucks out of pocket for a deer and elk cap, a little over 200, here’s 3 25 for a moose plus or minus. Yeah. And so, and what I did, I went and got a, you know, an over the counter deer tech Bronson. You did too? Yeah. Yeah. We bought ’em general before they sold out. ’cause now we have caps as non-residents.

00:50:51:21 –> 00:51:56:24
So anyway, I went and did that and I could still apply for one of these and go on the General Deer Tech. Wow. So, you know, kind of cool. There’s, anyway, talk to us after Chris, we’ll get you lined out. Wyatt’s our moose expert. He killed two last year. His dad, well, okay. Killed the shiru and he killed, he helped kill one and he killed one actually three if you count him. And Archibald’s last Yukon. And then his dad’s Utah. SHI Ross. Yeah. But could you imagine Wyatt and Archibald in Moose Camp by themselves? Do you think Wyatt really helped Archibald? Yeah. I mean, once one hits the ground, there’s, okay. Yes. Once one hits the ground one. Those two. No one. Those two, there’s, they’re not gonna let the other one. Hey, get your freaking knife and get over here. Quit reading your book. Louie Lamo can wait. We, they’re, they’re pretty tight friends. We love giving ’em grief. Alright, so anyway, lots of good options, Chris. Chris, lots of great options. Talk and find out if you want to do it. And so with the marriage coming up, did you tell her like BYOG, like bring your own gun? Because I think she brings her own gun to the marriage. She brings her own gear. She does diagnostics. Well, she does, but there’s a good, I’m not gonna be stingy ’cause there’s a dang good chance I’m gonna be using hers. Right.

00:51:56:26 –> 00:53:06:05
Well you’ve done it in the past, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, with her, I don’t, I’m not asking you to say the date, but, but we’re, we’re talking mid-June re Yeah, mid-June iss the day. Yeah, we’re two months. Yeah. Need some Jeopardy music. Are you excited? Are you nervous? Excited Count. Cold feet. I’m excited. No. Cold feet. No. I’ve been good. 36 years waiting. So yeah, that sounds like a song. Title. Title 36 years. And wait, have you built that song already? There you go. No. Is that what we’re gonna hear in June? There’s your next number one. I think it’s an awesome idea. Huh? Okay, well you might have make royalties fail. How can it fail? And I guess you’ll owe ’em to her because it’s because of her that you’re built the song anyway. Well, but remember what’s hers is yours And what’s yours? Is yours Chris? No, what’s yours is hers. And what’s hers is hers? Yes. Oh, it’s the other way around. So that’s way it goes, bro. That’s, that’s, that’s correct. You know that Well, all right. 25 years for you and I, by the way, this year, both of us Carter, 25 years. Did you get married in 96? I did too, I think. Wow. Like a few months after you. Hey, that’s crazy. Those are best year of my life. It was a drought year, but I, I killed it. Your, your marriage year’s a drought.

00:53:06:07 –> 00:54:06:19
You, what did that happen to do with your marriage? Well, I just 96 and oh two, I can’t get past them. They’re brutal. Dude. I killed a buck and it could have been 30 inches bigger. Alright, well anyway, let’s, let’s, let’s move on. It was the best year of my life for that reason alone. I’m getting married. I’m sorry, Jenna. She’s amazing. I’m sorry. I actually wanna call him. We had some optics to send out. I wonder if they went out Bronson. No, just wondering. Hey, she does that. She took the day off to take your, your kids fishing today. ’cause they’re out for spring break. I’d let her just do that. She, it. Don’t call her back. She’s a heck of a mom to ship out one pair oft she takes some hunting and fishing. Can you believe it? Calling coyotes everything. All right. Well anyway, so where are we at, Bronson? What do we got? I don’t know. I think we’re pretty much wrapped up. Other than that, there’s a lot going on in April. So we’ve got just a ton of things we’re doing with our clients as far as you know, Idaho. Montana’s passed. Colorado will be passed hopefully soon. We’re gonna, we got Nevada, Kansas, Montana, sheep, moose, goat, bison, antelope that we’re all cranking about and thinking about co bro.

00:54:06:19 –> 00:55:22:24
And you and I, you’re, you’re cranking out and the, you know, the numbers and we’re both researching, you know, Wyoming and Idaho like crazy. Yep. For Idaho, deer, elk and antelope. Wyoming deer antelope. That’s right. That’s on the docket. Not due till 1st of June and June 5th, but it’s, it’s on the next off that will come out in the May issue of the magazine along with Washington Moose, sheep and Goat. Some new changes there. People wanna read about. How about, should we talk about some controversy? Depends on if it involves me. Well, I just think there’s a lot going on in this weird state of the nation where people are concerned. There’s a lot of changes, you know, being proposed with trail cameras and different things in other states. Yeah. And people wanting to know our stance. People are in a frenzy. Good grief. And our stance is we love ’em. We run ’em. Right? We do. Yeah. We run cameras. Awesome. Now having said that, are they gonna take Henning away if they take away those? No, they’re not. Not necessarily. And I, and I do. There’s nobody that’s said they love cameras more than me. I freaking love. It’s like Christmas time. I love ’em. Having said that, Nevada changed the rule. You can’t run cameras after August one through December 31. It hasn’t been the end of the world. And there’s been, people say trail cameras don’t kill box bulls, whatever.

00:55:23:17 –> 00:56:40:15
There’s a lot of animals that get hunted because they’re seen on camera. I mean, especially during, let’s be honest, during a season it, it’s true. You can’t say that I’ve hunted ’em because they’re on camera. That’s right. So I guess the moral of the story, and there’s other laws that we’ve talked about in the past, whether it be New Mexico, Montana, Wyoming, that involve non-resident participation or guide draw participation, things like that. And I guess we’re all waiting for the dust to settle on some of these things for the year. Whether it be legislative, whether it be commission-based changes, which Utah made some big changes to their baiting law. That was a legislative change. No more baiting in Utah for 2021. Trail cameras. That’s still up for debate. The wildlife board and, and all that can still adjust that between now and the hunts. And that is likely to possibly happen. Our, our take on it is, yeah, we can get worked up about certain aspects of this or that in every state. And you can exhaust yourself at that. At the end of the day. Let what happens, happens. And give your input. Try to be civil, the right word. I mean, good and grief. There’s been some bloodshed it feels like over some of things back and forth. Well I think part of it, I think part of it is we personally may have personal opinions. Well the other guy has a personal opinion too.

00:56:40:15 –> 00:57:51:11
And it doesn’t mean his opinion’s wrong. He’s coming at it from a different perspective. Guides may come at it from a different perspective. Non-resident in Pennsylvania may come out of, maybe he don’t care. He’s in Pennsylvania, he don’t care. So whatever your perspective is, it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t make it wrong. And I think part of it, Adam, we haven’t just come out here on a podcast and just, you know, throw our opinion out there and try to push it on other people because they have a different perspective. And, and my perspective is my perspective, yours is yours. And so we haven’t come out here and just said, this is why. And this is what we think and buy. Heck do it. There’s a number of scenarios that I think are fair that I think would work. It doesn’t mean ban. I I believe in banning. I don’t believe in banning. But I, but I’m also not against a partial level of compromise or something. Yeah. A level of compromise. And I’m also okay if they just allow it, you know, I’m okay with that. I think there’s some there, there’s some naturals. Arizona did away with cellular cams and, and instantaneous info. I think Wyoming, that’s fair. Wyoming, Wyoming, Wyoming doing that too. Yeah. They’re doing that. Changing it up for this year. I think those are, I think those are normal.

00:57:51:17 –> 00:59:03:22
I think people can probably come to grips with, maybe that’s crossing the line. I don’t know. There’s some electronic devices out there. Maybe those things are crossing the line. So anyway, having said that, and I guess at the end of the day, our point, like even at lunch, we were talking about it, whatever, wherever the chips fall, we’re just gonna play within the rules. We crank, we’ll react and we’ll play by the rules. That’s exactly right. And our, what we see is that you also then get people that are defending every piece of technology and every tool in the toolbox. Don’t take it away from me. And then the next breath, they’re crushing the game and fish for not having enough deer to hunt and quality a deer to hunt. All right. A hundred percent. And, and every way viciously against it. And I wear a biologist hat from the past. So I’ve, I’ve stood at the mic in public meetings. I’ve made hard decisions. I was a biologist back when we made the first tag cuts on the ponson. And it was not pretty gnashing. I was of teeth. It was not a popular thing among sportsmen. Sportsmen were pushing for it hunters. But you had landowners, you had specific landowners receiving revenue from those, you had other interest, agriculture and whatever. It was a, it was a bloodbath. It wasn’t, it wasn’t fun, it wasn’t popular. And you get by it.

00:59:03:22 –> 01:00:11:03
And now, now you see what happened over five to 10 years in the ponson. It elevated. And granted you can say there’s room for improvement always. And there’s fluctuations. But you can’t, you can’t simply say you can’t regulate me and and expect your hunting dreams to come. True. True. Every time you go out honey, you’re infringing on my constitutional rights by not allowing me to use A, B, c, D through Z-E-F-G-H-I-J-K. And by the way, if you’re gonna take away a, you gotta take away from A through Z or you don’t take away a I don’t think that’s fair either. No. So you’ve got people saying, if you’re gonna take away this and you’re gonna limit cellular cams, for example, let’s just throw that out there. You’re gonna limit cellular cams then you can’t allow BT xs to be used in long range, you know, long range rifles and where do you draw the line? And I think they love to gray it up so they can continue to use all the technology they want and then continue to complain that there’s no big animals and they wish there was more. And these aren’t worth the points that I gave. And why do I see a lot of people in the field? Yeah. And the next guy that has Aval Val valid opinion, has got a, has got, does a family reunion on something they can draw on a general, on a regular basis.

01:00:11:07 –> 01:01:17:03
And he’s mad and now he can’t draw it except for every three or four years. And he’s mad. The opportunity for the average family to spend time together is gone. And you think he’s not calling biologists like you. Yeah. Do you think he was not calling those guys? He’s calling ’em, wearing them out on the other side. Same as side the trophy hunter is calling, wearing them out. And so it gets old. Like we see it from all perspectives. We’re at lunch just yaking about it. And we see it from all perspective. It’s like, just slow down for a minute. Everybody comes from a different angle. That’s right. I personally love to see, I’d love to see more two 80 bucks on the landscape. I would like to see what Utah’s capable of producing. Yeah. But does that mean it’s right that we, that we limit everybody and nobody gets to draw a thousand tags statewide? No, it’s not. You know, but but you, but you have to be willing, if you’re gonna make one argument, you gotta look at what makes that argument stick or hold water. And if certain things additively add up to being more successful, either in taking better quality or higher numbers and you’re not willing to give up it and then you’re willing to crush the division and talk about all the tag cuts that we’re seeing on general season hunts and all that.

01:01:17:03 –> 01:02:31:01
Which hey, if they’re not there, I applaud the division for making hard decisions. It’s not all about Utah, you know, selling tags to, to, to make quotas. Okay. Those are hard decisions. Those are hard. They also come back rather fast on general season units where they have lots of deer. But you’ve, you’ve also had the last, what, two or three years? Carter Bluebird, sunny, everybody’s out the whole hunt breathing dust. ’cause the roads are powdered everywhere and you know, bluebird, so there’s no bad weather to keep the fair weather hunters home and the deer aren’t moving. And you’ve had crushing fawn crops the last two years. So there’s not a lot of young bucks around, which is what most people are seeing on general. So they have been tough hunts. They have been look at that from that perspective. What’s led up to that? It’s not just total mismanagement. That’s right. That’s right. Having said that, is the division perfect? No, they’re not perfect. We, we’ve seen places where there could be some improvement just from our perspective. Not that our perspective’s, right. Again or any state. But, but having said that, like we used to had people real close to me, always complain to the division ’cause ’cause the division would come back at times and say, well you know what you can do, you could pray for rain. And it was very frustrating. That’s not management. And I totally agree with that.

01:02:31:08 –> 01:03:46:09
It’s, there’s nothing we can do. That’s an act of God. Having said that, sometimes that’s true. Bronson, these wet years, it’s like chia pet and it makes a difference. And then all of a sudden everybody’s praising the DWR, at least the trophy hunters are, wow, we had a great year. You’ve done something right. Yeah. At the very next year they’re complaining, they’re saying they’re blowing it and it’s all because of moisture and all that. You double a fawn crop recruitment, you double one on a general season unit. It’s a monumental how many bucks you start. You can have the ability to recruit within a two or three year period. If you string two or three year of those together, it doesn’t take very long. It’s kinda like antelope, you can wipe ’em out in a winter kill. You give ’em two or three years, they’re back three years. They’re mature. You know what I mean? So, and we’re not talking about mature mule deer bucks. We’re talking about general season hunting or just opportunity hunts or places like that. But our moral of, of rant, I guess is be willing to step back a minute, not be absolutely so gang ho, gung-ho, passionate about one specific thing that you’re willing, that you’re mad that’s being quote stripped from you, taken from you government labeled as government overreach. We have to have some set sense of regulation. We have season dates, we have hunting hours for heavens.

01:03:46:09 –> 01:04:52:15
If you’re gonna complain, if you’re gonna say we can never make another regulation since 1980, we can’t keep up with changing tactics, adapting a changing, you know, people understanding how well certain things work, whatever it may be, bait or whatever it is. If you’re gonna say we can never make another re regulation because you’re taking away my constitutional rights. What’s the use of having hunting hours? Yeah. Why, why don’t we just allow you to spotlight at night? If that’s take It’s all my private property. You can’t tell me when the deer’s on my property. No. We have things in place like that for a reason that are so whether they be labeled as failed, fair chase or acceptable or ethical or whatever, there’s things in place. And that’s up for debate. A lot of this is on the table now. We’re just, everybody takes a deep breath. Breath. And so we’re, and we’re all, so we’re all spoke hunters and sportsmen. We’re, and now do we think, and I’ve been vocal about this, do we think hunting mul deer in the rutt with a rifle is, is a good management tech tactic? No. Colorado does it. They kind of get to get away with it a little bit because they’re a deer factory and they’re still have deer to hunt. But we’ve all seen the quality diminish. Having said that, it’s still better quality than say Oregon or even, you know, most of Montana or whatever.

01:04:53:09 –> 01:05:53:23
’cause they’re a deer factories, right? ’cause they’re deer factories. They can get away with two and three, let’s call ’em rutt rifle hunts in preseason season, pre rutt season, rutt, poster rut, whatever. So anyway, do we think that’s right and a good way to manage? Not necessarily. And we’ve been vocal about that, but, or, or look at Utah for another example that our sportsmen have been so reluctant to ever move. We hunt elk every day in September and the best days in September with rifles and muzzle orders. Do you think it’s good Bronson? Is that good that we don’t give an animal a break during the rutt? No. And is it good to, to give add more opportunity? And I’m not saying give them all the archers. I archery hunt, I muzzle, I rifle hunt. But if you want to increase the opportunity in Utah, you don’t have all your fire, you know, 60% of your tags on the rifle on the road. Now let’s flip it on you. Okay? Okay. Now go ahead and try to change that now. But you’ve got 22 points. Try to change that and people are gonna say, ah Adam, Jason, you’d burn your own points 10 years ago. Course. Want that? You don’t care. You don’t care. No, it’s not necessarily true. But go ahead and try to change it. And to, you’re right, it’s not have no rifle rut hunts.

01:05:53:24 –> 01:07:04:23
It won’t change because it was started that way back when we had novelty elk herds here, five tags on Pengu Lake, five on Southwest desert, five on San Juan. They were the new thing, the new weird animal that’s on the landscape. They started, let’s give them in the rutt. Like ’em have an awesome experience. They never changed since 1990. That’s something that’s never changed. Don’t I know It’s not kept up with the times. It’s and yeah. And, and there’s a big investment of people with points. I understand it. I’m just saying. And you think they’re gonna quietly go away. It doesn’t make sense when, when, when. No, when, when they, when management practice, if management practice were to change and it’s the same people or complaining about, said something else strongly, but they’re complaining. The fact that they can never draw a tag. Ever, ever, ever draw a tag And the non-resident. Like, can you guys give so few non-resident tags because we hunted in the rut. That’s right. So you’re complaining on one hand, you don’t take it away from me, but you’re complaining. Can’t ever draw. Those are the types of you, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. We’ve had people say, well if you take away whatever, let’s call it thermal imaging, let’s call it whatever. If you take away that, you gotta take away the diaphragm out call because you’re imitating sexual sounds. And that’s not fair. Come on.

01:07:05:13 –> 01:08:09:29
Yeah. There has to be, there has to be some common sense. But hey, that is an opinion of a guy out there. Maybe, maybe a hundred guys out there or 200, I don’t know, maybe thousands. And so you think, I just want everybody just think about this. You think you have a tough job. Go try to work for fish and game. Yeah. And get paid, I don’t know, 35, 40 5,000 a year and do it kinda like a school teacher. I mean I, I dunno exactly what they did less, but go thankless. Let go try to do it and then, and then yeah, it’s like gonna to the school board and everybody’s a everybody knows what to do. Gonna to the school board and complain about everything. And we’re not really ranting against our school board or our school district. We’re not just saying we stand examples. You have an examples of, you know, it’s, it’s a rough place to be in. They’re not malicious. There may be some people that are more passive and apathetic about their specific part of the world that they manage. We know that there are other biologists and gay managers that are hunters that have a maybe a more of a vested interest to see something really improve, get better and all that. We admit that we get that and there’s techniques and things that come under question that come under scrutiny, come under analysis from time to time.

01:08:10:20 –> 01:09:23:07
Don’t lose your crap. You know, keep your crap together. Yeah. Okay. So, and I think Bronson, we’ve covered it about as much as we need to. Yeah. Having said all that, you know, i I, it would be nice things have changed so much and we’ve been, state agencies are apathetic to change and regulate because they don’t wanna be known as that, as, as regulating us to death. But it’s hard not to when things are changing so fast. And so anyway, I am a fan. I like to see some animals die of old age or at their very max and we’re kill, there’s some amazing animals you can see Epic Outdoors Magazine and we promote trophy hunting. We promote it, right? Yeah. Promote. And, and so, but it would be nice, these, some of these bugs and bulls and whatever have incredible genetics. It’d be nice to see ’em at eight years old. I, you’d be shocked at what they are. So, you know, I’m not saying regulate everything, but I’m saying we’re not, there’s a lot of things that we’re, that haven’t been ke kept up at the times. One of the thing I wanna point out, if you all think that, that taking away cameras levels, the playing field. Think again. Guides are out there nonstop. These guys know where to glass from. They know a unit inside and out.

01:09:23:21 –> 01:10:30:06
If you’re the DIY hunter can run a few cameras and can kind of have a good idea of what’s in a unit if they do ’em right by not, if they, you know, if you regulate cameras altogether and you ban ’em, the DIY guy’s gonna go up against the outfitters who can, who are paid to be out there every day prec scouting. Well, to use your example, what about the guy from Pennsylvania that loves to hunt elk or deer himself when he comes out west? That’s how he does. It’s what he does. He’s got his work cut out for him. It it, you know, compared to a distance, a different set of circumstances. Now, not to say that he’s able to run cameras if he allowed or on cameras from Pennsylvania, but his guide or his outfit or might be able to and he can’t afford that. Or so there’s, or he could run ’em during the season. I used to run ’em during the season. I I would roll in. Yeah. Put ’em up and and check ’em every day during the day of the day when there’s nothing going on. There’s things like that. So there’s, there’s a lot of different perspectives to this. There. We have our own opinions. You’ve obviously seen a few of ’em come through. The moral of the story though, is there’s a lot of ways to skin a cat.

01:10:30:18 –> 01:11:34:27
Look at every state agency that does, has restrictions on different muzzle loader restrictions, season date timings, you know, bonus. I mean, everywhere is different. We, we frankly are fine with the variety. I like, I like, like the variety. I I have three Muzz LERs, I have one that I use. If we go, I don’t go to Oregon and Washington, Jason you have, but I’ve got one that’s valid in those three states. You know the old number live in Perion. You got one too. That’s right. Use that one. You go up there and you have, you don’t get rid of it. ’cause when you get a muzz or tag, you use it up there. You got a scope muzzle loader. Having said that, having said I do have a scope muzzle loader and, and we sell scopes. How about that? And they’re awesome. Right? There’s all kinds of awesome technology. Having said that, I’ll just say it. I’m a personal fan that primitive equipment should be primitive. Yeah. And, and that, and, and for people, people how primitive Adam for primitive is primitive for people to say that that has not affected the deer numbers on Utah generals. When you can add muzz loaders to them, they’re lying. They’re, they’re, it’s not Right. And I’m not saying I’m gonna take that to the rack and the bordering and fight to go back. I just saw it both ways. And you can’t have it both ways.

01:11:34:28 –> 01:12:39:18
You can’t complain about the quality of deer and want every tool in the toolbox. You can’t do it. And what we’re talking about is maybe taken away or some of the, the ones that are under consideration that get the most scrutiny or maybe that the ones that make the biggest impact. If we just do this one or two things, and it might be your one or two things that you love to do and that might be unfortunate. But you’re, we’re, you’re trying to, I guess look at what might get the most bang for the buck. I also think certain regulation, every state is different. That’s why Utah has a different management tech. We have different terrain, we have different social needs, whatever as Nevada, as Arizona or whatever. Same thing out there, Bronson. They may have different circumstances where maybe they have a lot more catchments. Maybe the deer are more vulnerable coming into a certain catchment. ’cause there’s no live water. I don’t know. There’s a number. Look at, look at Nevada for sheep for instance. That’s big example of that. Okay. And their trail camera and their trail camera laws may not match Utah’s because they have a whole different set of circumstances that they’re dealing with. Utah’s sheep are not totally relying on Gurs, they’re not Nevada. But are they in Nevada? Nevada’s or they die without it. Okay. They die. Okay.

01:12:39:24 –> 01:13:46:09
So my point is, is does that mean we should regulate Nevada the identical same way as Utah? That’s right. No. So there’s different, there’s different state to state to state. We represent all the states. We apply people in all the states. We apply in all the states. We hunt in all the states. We’re reacting change. So we don’t have just a set standard of this is what we do or what we think. It is nice to give the game a chance. A, it is nice to keep up with the times and to realize that your rights aren’t totally being violated by by if a few more restrictions come your way. I don’t think it’s the end of hunting. No. Having said that, Bronson, we have been so vocal in politics and I don’t wanna make this political at all, but Bronson, we are anti-regulation in general in life. Yeah. We are. We are, we are. We like to have freedoms. We like to do what it is we want to do without regulations. We look forward to the, I like to not go down and to have my emissions checked. I I like that. You don’t, that’s why you live in southern Utah, right? Instead of northern Utah. That’s right. And and that’s another reason I’m not gonna live up there. That’s right. And those guys on the Wasatch front can have all the giants up there.

01:13:46:11 –> 01:14:53:10
I had to do it for two and a half years living in Logan, going to college up there. And then I moved. That was before they even had a machine. So moved back here and straight piped at the same minute I got back here. Maybe they did have missions up there. They did. Did they? Oh yeah. I don’t remember. They’re not that old anyway. Well, we’re about the same age. About the same. Hey, one more thing. We want to get a plug. You might have seen it on a shout out on our Instagram and an email. We developed a proprietary stud. We call it the NL Stud, the Epic NL Stud. There you go. If you use a SLC Swarovski adapter for say your 15 by 56 Swarovski binoculars and use a Swarovski model, then we’ve made our own literally proprietary machined stud to screw in your NL pure vinyls. If you have a set, you don’t have to have bought ’em from us. And it’ll use that SLC post that comes Yeah. From the factory. Pretty awesome. That’s right. So give us a call. We have ’em in stock for the nls. Got some plans in work for the ELs. Not not ready to release those yet, but the endos are ready in stock. Call us (435) 263-0777.

01:14:53:12 –> 01:15:27:05
If you have a pair of tens or twelves or I guess eights and wanna be able to mount ’em with your SLC tripod adapter and put your work easy to put on. Easy. Easy. All right everybody, that’s about all we have for you today. Don’t hate on us too bad. We’re just throwing a few ideas out there. However, we’re not pushing on anybody. Whatever happens, happens. We’re all sportsmen. We all want the same thing in general. Remember that? Yeah, Chris. Sounds good. Amen. Over and out. All right, everybody have a good one.