10 Years of KUIU with Brendan Burns. In this episode of the Epic Outdoors Podcast we talk with Brendan Burns of KUIU. We have worked closely with Brendan for a decade. From the birth of KUIU til now we have seen incredible innovation and success and are happy to have been a part of it. Shortly after, as we ventured off and started Epic Outdoors, KUIU was the first company to jump on board and support us as a full time advertiser. When it comes to building incredible gear that works, KUIU sets a high standard in the hunting industry.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:01:12 –> 00:01:36:16
Every stock was crossed Big Canyon. So it was like three and a half hours to get around. You get on the wrong side of a V Gorge that’s 150 yards wide and the Go goat moves and you’re, you’re pretty much alleged out for that stock. Anything to do with Western big Games. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Adam Bronson coming at you from Southern Utah. It’s a dusty, dry southern Utah. Bronson. Yeah, it’s not gonna rain either for a while. I mean, it’s the time of year we get dry right now. People wanna go to the lake, but our lakes are a little low, especially Lake Powell. Never, never been this low since like 19 60, 50 40. I don’t know, wind. Do you remember? Well, whenever the dam was built. Okay. It’s crazy out there. Feels like it’s crazy out there. Sucking down low. But we need some water for sure. But anyway, we kind of got a special podcast. We’re gonna be visiting with Brendan Burns of QU. Great company. Been with us from the start here. In fact, Bronson, even in our prior life. That’s right. I think we’ll talk about that today. That’s the first time we ever, well, probably sat down, talked business with Brendan and Jason. Ton, founder of QU. So let’s get Brendan a call and let’s jump on into this. Brendan, he’s probably e scouting for Elk. Sorry about that. Oh yeah.

00:01:36:16 –> 00:02:42:04
He just made us think that you were out shed hunting or something. I thought maybe you were east outing for El or so, just ghosted. You just ghosted you. Yeah. I don’t blame you. How’s it going? How’s Bos been this morning? Oh, it’s beautiful day, beautiful day. Nice and sunny. We’ve got a little rain last couple days, so it’s nice and sunny out today. And there’s a, there’s a nice time of year to to live here, that’s for sure. Nice, nice. Before we kick off into queue, how is, how is Southern Montana and that, how’s your spring been as far as, is it green? Is it dry? It’s green. It’s green and dry. I mean, it’s, it’s definitely dry. Like out east is horrible, I guess right now. But we got a lot of snow packs, so we haven’t started runoff. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of snow in the deep areas for sure. I mean, a lot, you know, it’s, it’s gonna, it’s dry right now. They could use some more water, that’s for sure. But we’re not really affected by that. No, you guys are, you know, I mean, animals can always get a drink. I mean, it’s, it’s so funny how people are always like, oh, you know, it’s a nice wet year. Like we, we should have some good horn growth. It’s like you don’t understand the stunning horn growth down south is they literally can’t drink. Yeah. Right.

00:02:42:04 –> 00:03:52:24
Like there’s never a time when an animal can’t walk two miles and get a drink. Yeah, right. So, or eat green feed up there, like you said, you stagger it with green low and then you got so much, it’s kinda like Colorado parts of Wyoming, Idaho. We don’t talk about it as much as we do Southern Utah, Southern Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico. But thought we’d ask. So I’ve actually found that I, I think historically, if you looked at the data, the drier the year is the bigger the elk. Hey, that’s what they’re saying up there. That’s what they say in Nevada. Even Nevada and parts of Utah dryer’s better. Well, I think they have to, they have to eat stuff that’s probably higher nutritional. I mean, I’m no higher protein entomologist or whatever it is, but yeah, I mean, they have to eat different stuff and yeah, it makes, makes sense to me. But it’s Tony, it seems like every year we have a big, we have big fires. There’s some big bulls get killed. That’s what Tony Grimmet mentioned about antelope too. Some of those dry years, they kill the big, you know, giant world record potential. And anyway, kind of interesting. He just forces ’em to feed on different stuff, so. Yeah. Well, hey, 10 years we got a, you guys are launching a big campaign, rightfully so. This 10 year anniversary campaign of QU since 2011. Let’s turn back the clock.

00:03:52:27 –> 00:04:53:16
Let’s, let’s go back to 2011, 2010, somewhere in there burns. When you guys in this, in these very offices, which we now reside right here, I believe is where, where we started with you and Jason Riston at the time. It was kind of, Jason and I were just talking about this this morning. I can’t, it feels in a way like it was 20 years ago. I don’t know. I thought it was oh seven or something. It’s not, it was 2011. Well, actually we, I, JS and I came down there to do, like, we had our first ads printed up. We had our f we had prototype product, and I remember we came down there Dec I, I, I actually looked it up. I think it was December 10th of 10. There you go. It was three months before we launched and came down and met and, and showed you kind of what we were coming out. It was a tiny line, obviously. There was, I think there was, I think we had eight products total when we started. No synthetic in any, we had, you know, Marino base layer and attack pan, which has been Yep. That’s been one of our big seller. That’s, that’s been one of our, one of our big sell. Like I probably our most successful product ever. I remember that.

00:04:53:22 –> 00:05:55:25
You brought that out and you, you poured water on the table here with us and it beaded and we’re like, Hey, sold. Yeah, no, I mean, like, and, and yeah, so you guys, it was, yeah, we came down to meet with you guys and you know, that was when a advertising budgets were, were really small and obviously you guys did us a solid and, and you know, were believed in, in, obviously in Jason’s vision and the products. We were, you know, a lot of it was based on what we were gonna do. You know, we had a, we had a pretty solid plan and what, what was in the works and, but it was still a bit of a, you know, I mean, like I said, I, I started in September of 2010 and that was my first official business trip that, that I took with Jason. I flew, we flew into Vegas and I drove up there and yeah, it was Cedar City, Utah. Yeah, it’s, it’s hard, it’s hard to believe like even, even at that time when you’re going like, this is gonna go well, it’s gonna be great. And obviously, you know, Jason was one of those guys that was contagious about, you know, success and business and products and I mean like totally unique dude. Like, I mean, just his enthusia can’t be beat. Yeah. He wasn’t, yeah, you believed that he was never pessimistic. No.

00:05:55:27 –> 00:06:58:12
You believed he had a way to sell it, but he wasn’t a salesman in the way to sell it. He just had a confidence in the way he was presenting it. Well, so confident. So confident. Yeah. And, and then, you know, the experience in the former company and you know, obviously he was driven to, to basically everything he had seen that he didn’t like, and the former company and, and the way that things were sold, he, he thought you, you, I mean literally he was building a better mousetrap. I mean, consumer direct was, I I just, it’s such a funny thing now that everybody has basically dumped retail or maybe they haven’t officially said they dumped retail, but they sure like selling direct a lot more. And That’s right. You know, 10 years ago that was like, I mean, literally people were like, it’ll never work. No, you’re crazy. It’ll never work. Yeah, it was, it was felt revolutionary because at the time, I mean even the e-commerce wasn’t even, it wasn’t even close. No, it was a, it was infinitesimal compared what we have today on the e-commerce of any of any kind. Now you’ve got social media, Amazon, everything. It doesn’t, you know what I mean? Just lots of people are used to shopping online, they’re used to going direct if they want to go direct a little bit more. So Yeah.

00:06:58:22 –> 00:08:02:23
But yeah, but it was, it’s, it’s, yeah, it was, it was revolutionary. And, and for him it’s like, you know, you obviously when in great business leaders, which I would consider him, you know, they have a, they have, you know, they’re ahead. Like timing is everything. And he was ahead of the timing and, and it was really driven by the fact that the feedback from customers directly would produce better products. I mean, that really was the, the goal was like, listen, I mean, when you, when you sell to retailers and you, you don’t really actually touch the customer. You build stuff that your dealer, your dealer base wants you to build or stuff that has higher margins or stuff that sells better or whatever. But you’re really not building the stuff that your actual end user. And it’s like he, he really thought that the end user, the more contact you can have with the end user, the more database you can have, the more people you can reach out and actually talk to and, and, and get feedback from the, the better off your product was gonna be. And obviously the business side of it, if you can make, if you can build a big enough customer base to not go out of business, which, you know, that was the big thing back then. I mean, when you have, you know, we have a lot of customers now. Things are, things are amazing.

00:08:02:25 –> 00:09:00:11
But back then it was like just, you know, I mean we started with basically a dozen people believing in the brand. And you know, I mean we sat in March and, and, and you know, when Jason turned the company on, I was sitting at his, at his in his kitchen and, and literally was like, we don’t know, like we think there’s a lot of demand. We think it’s gonna go well. And like turned it on. Like all of a sudden water started rolling in. What I, what I thought was brilliant was he brought the customer along or the potential customer along with the innovation. Remember he had blog. Yeah. Oh. And kept blogging different things. We’re doing this, we’re trying this. What do you guys think? Well, we try differently. I mean, the whole evolution of, you know, whether it be the clothing and features on clothing because you know, we, we’ve had it for 10 years and there’s things now, I mean, I still have some of my old stuff. My kids find. I still have it, still it, and got the old generation, the first brown pack that you guys made, the gen one pack, whatever you wanna call it. My boy used that shed hunting like crazy. It’s still so it’s, you’re not gonna wear it out still. But, but there’s been changes made.

00:09:00:11 –> 00:09:37:03
But, but that, that key team to key and what Jason just said, you guys were big online and the feedback that people could provide and they felt like they were building their gear. Well, they were helping build it. Even though Jason, they, Jason Jason knows way more than we do or the customer or whatever. You, you and Jason, the team, I mean, you guys knew where you were going with it, but you brought the customer along and, and the consumer and they had a say, or at least we felt like we a say they felt vested. Yeah. It was vested mean they were buying come heck or high water. ’cause they felt like they helped build it, you know what I mean? Even though you all know Yeah, you all knew where you were going with it. You just brought us all along.

00:09:37:21 –> 00:10:39:13
Well the, the total transparency was something that was unique to the, like, one thing that, you know, I mean a little bit into the, into the apparel business and stuff, is that like, it always been really secretive and that that always, he always, you know, Jason was big on like, listen, if you tell people how to judge their own product, like if you tell, if you give people the facts, like let’s just say in rain gear, and I see nowadays, like I actually just saw a article the other day about the difference between two layer and three layer rain gear. I went through there and I was like, dude, it’s literally a copy of a article we did in 2011. And it’s like, if you can educate the customer, like through total transparency, we’re talking pricing, material, construction, where it’s from, all that stuff. Like he, the the, he always thought like if you can educate people and you truly build the best product, they will go out in the market, look at everybody else’s stuff, ask those hard questions. Eventually they’ll end up back at ku. ’cause if you’re truly building the best stuff and you educate the customer at what to know what they’re looking for you, you’re, it’s, it’s a natural, they’re gonna come back. They’re gonna be like, not only do they build the best stuff, but I can tell you why.

00:10:39:13 –> 00:11:46:18
And like, we, we created really experts in whether it’s fabric or design or you know, features. Like, I mean, it had always been a secretive thing, you know, I mean like basically the, the camouflage market had kept the per performance apparel was, you know, I mean before KU was mountaineering a few other, like it was just mountaineering period. Yeah. Performance apparel was 10 or 15 years ahead of hunting apparel because of camouflage. One of the reasons we came outta their own camou pattern pattern originally is a, it was really distinct and you could see it, but number two is like you could actually build with the fabrics you wanted to. I mean, and people don’t realize that for 15, 20 years, the major camel producers like you had the same, everybody was building the same stuff on their fabric that had their pattern on it. You, you weren’t, they weren’t making new fabric. So we were, that’s why everything was cotton and it was all, it was all garbage. It was, it was camouflage, but it was all garbage. And so like, we’re, you know, it was really kind of the first of really the ketchup was super quick, you know, mountaineering and, and outdoor was far ahead of hunting. And then that ketchup caught really quick. And now, I mean, like, we’re at the point now where we’re driving innovations even in, in, in outdoor apparel.

00:11:46:18 –> 00:12:41:19
I mean like, you know, I mean it’s, it’s funny when you think of some of the innovations the last decade, but like, you know, stretch woven is just a standard now. Like treated it down. We are the first ones that do treated it down. We still have the best treated down in the entire hunting market. Like period. Hands down. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think there’s a lot of go, going back to the licensing of camo patterns and whatnot. There’s a lot of politics involved, just like what you’re saying. And by you guys developing your own pattern, you got to own yourself. You can put it on what you want. You can build what you want, you can make it look the way you want. And so you just own the whole thing from start to finish. Yeah, it was, and you know, a lot of that stuff is, it’s, it’s kinda like industry standard now, but, you know, 10 years ago it was like, whoa, that’s crazy. I mean, telling people where your factory was, or like actually the, I mean the fact that people understand now what tore what, what this fabric manufacturer is and how they go, like showing the behind the scenes testing and stuff, that was never done. Nobody ever got to look behind the curtain. It was like smoke and mirrors. Like, oh, we build the best, this and that.

00:12:41:19 –> 00:13:36:01
And it’s like, hey, we’ll just tell you exactly what you build. And then when you go out and ask those tough questions and, and, and that had never been done before. And, and the transparency and pricing too. Like, hey, we have, we’re a business, we have markup. But like, here’s what’s normally going on is, you know, if a if you have a product that’s a hundred dollars, you know, I mean he was the first one to really explain to everybody. Like, listen, if you have a hundred dollars product, the company builds it for 25, sells it to the retailer for 50, they sell it for a hundred, you’re still getting a $25 product. You can buy direct. You can buy a far better product for the same price. Or you can buy a far better product for less money if you can work direct now. I mean that’s, that, that was revolutionary. Now it’s just like, I think that’s why you guys weren’t scared to tell people what it was built in. Yeah. ’cause it couldn’t compete price wise. If you’re retail, you can’t compete. You can, you can know where I’m making it, New Zealand, Japan, wherever, you know, some of your sources were, but you can’t touch it if you’re gonna do retail. So you weren’t afraid to tell people. And correct me if I’m wrong, Brendan, it’s just like what you’re talking about.

00:13:36:02 –> 00:14:36:03
But I think what Jason was saying was, was, hey, in the former life in my former company, we couldn’t afford to use the best products because the best products cost a bit. And then when you go through 14 layers of sales and whatever, you, it’s too expensive. And so now by going direct, it allowed you guys the freedom to use the best of the best and the affordability. Yeah. It’s, I mean that’s, that’s exactly it. And then, and then, you know, I I, the connection with the customers was a huge thing. And like, they, they weren’t, you know, we weren’t building stuff already and then pretending like they were involved. I mean, we, we made lots of changes based on customer feedback. I mean, our original guy jacket was built to be crazy, crazy light. Like no zippers, no extra pocketing and stuff. And after the first run, I mean like, we got enough customer feedback like, hey, we love the jacket, but like, you know, pockets on the chest are actually pretty nice. Like, you know, the cell phone’s becoming more integral to, to hunting, including mountain hunting and, and just being able to stuff G ps that was feedback we got. We sold way more once we put, you know, once it became the DCS jacket, once we had chest pockets and all that. So like, I mean the, the, the feedback was direct.

00:14:36:03 –> 00:15:25:27
And then once you have your own, your customer base that you can connect with, they, they’re, they’re your best salespeople for us. I mean, it’s like, you know, from a retail setting, you just don’t know who your customer is. You don’t have that direct connection with ’em. For us, it’s, and they’re, and they’re the best salespeople out there. And they, once they believe in the brand, it didn’t take many people. And then all of a sudden they’re out. Hunters top championing it. Yeah. Hunter top for Yeah, I mean like when the, when the best, you know, every, every town or every neighborhood has a really good hunter in it. And, and the other guys that hunt, they go to him like, that’s the gear guy. And they go, Hey, what are you wearing? And when they get onto something new and cool and it beads water like this and it keeps ’em dry and this is crazy light, light lightweight. Yeah. And it’s this waterproof down or whatever it is. Or hey, these pants never get weird on you. Like, I mean, stuff like that, man, that’s, that’s your, you, you can’t beat word of mouth sale. Like it’s, it’s, it’s what you strive for. So it’s, you know, that was the goal and everything.

00:15:25:27 –> 00:16:27:18
And there’s some really good timing things from since we started to now as like, one of ’em, like, I mean obviously Amazon has taken over the world and, and, you know, people became comfortable buying clothing, buying apparel, buying expensive things and have it delivered to your house knowing that, hey, if if it’s the wrong size, I can send it back. Or if it’s not what I wanted, I can send it back. But, you know, I’m like, I don’t have to go down and try something on in a store. And I mean, I think it, it just myself, it was foreign to me in the very beginning as well, but now it’s like, I I, I don’t even like going to a store. Like I just, I’d rather have it show up at my house, I gotta send it back, whatever. But that’s right. I I, I’m just not a shopper. And so, you know, obviously the timing of, you know, I mean the, the the whole how people buy products and how people do research was getting totally disrupted at the time and where, you know, he was ahead of the game. It’s just, it just, it’s, yeah, it was just a, it’s a really cool to look back on and now and, and, and actually to see now where, you know, I mean it’s, it’s really odd for somebody to start out and go to retail now.

00:16:27:19 –> 00:17:44:28
I mean like all these brands have dumped retail and they’re going consumer direct. It’s like that’s, it’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s cool to see, obviously imitation is the highest form of flattery and there’s been plenty of imitation out there, that’s for sure. When, when originally we were called crazy. And I mean, literally this will never work. Yeah. I mean it was like, you will go out of business. Like you can’t have enough, you can’t get enough customers. You’re gonna go outta business. That’s, yeah. You know, didn’t happen. That didn’t happen. You guys are still doing well, aren’t you? It’s going pretty good. Okay. Well, and to add the few of these things, I mean the whole, the, the customer involved process in, in developing and modifying things, also, you guys had credibility as gear that was built by hunters, mountain hunters and people that hunted a wide range of terrain seasons from mountains to, you know, north northern sheep hunts, toron then, then Yeah, the desert stuff that with Tiberon came along. I mean, you, you, you were the first real company that made such a wa thinking about a hunter that could hunt 365 days a year and, you know, you started with eight pieces, but you were looking at adding, filling in all the gaps to, to hunt, spring, summer, fall, winter. I like the lightweight stuff, those lightweight pants. I mean, they’re unbelievable out here in a hundred degree weather out to Nevada.

00:17:45:00 –> 00:18:44:27
Yeah. I mean they’re unbelievable. I mean, yeah, I mean I think unapologetically we are a hunting based brand, a hunting brand. We’re not an outdoor apparel brand. Yeah, that’s what I meant. Like we we’re a hunting brand. You can see it through all our photos, all of our stuff that we’re doing. We don’t do, you know, fake stuff. Like we’re actually out there using it and then, you know, we’re unapologetically, this is a hunting brand. Second of all, it’s like, we want to solve problems because there are problems too. I mean, you know, there are a lot of companies that were foreign. Like it’s not just a business. I mean, these are problems that need to be solved for the stuff that we’d love to do. I mean, Jason loved the sheep hunt. I love the sheep hunt. Like we wanna spend time in those really, you know, and and when you’ve had a hunt some Yeah. When you’ve had a, when you’ve been hunting and you’ve had something fail, it sucks. I mean, you, you sit there and go like, man, I wish I could build a better mousetrap here, or this needs to be better. This thing’s not waterproof or this doesn’t stretch. Right? Like those are the things we know and, and can, you know, and, and it’s, it’s, it’s awesome ’cause you can go build those products that you actually need.

00:18:44:27 –> 00:19:50:19
It’s like, it’s not like, you know, Hey, why do we build this? Or like we build it ’cause we need it, you know, and, and yeah. You know, it’s solving problems and, and, and getting feedback and, and doing it. You know, again, you know, I mean when, when we started, you know, I mean the average, it’s just like our, you know, packs or anything else. I mean, the average pack was probably pushing nine pounds. You know, like, I mean it was, it was a, like if you think 10 years ago it’s like, you know, crazy on durability, but like, just super heavy and, and, and the ability to cut 5, 10, 20 pounds outta your pack and your system of hunting and stay warmer and dryer. It’s like, I mean we were making huge gain and, and, and, and that, that equates to being able to hunt harder, being able to be com more comfortable longer, being able to pack more food that you need. Like those are, those are all things that were, you know, came through experience. Let, let’s talk about that. You mentioned the pack. Let’s talk about, ’cause that was new too, the carbon fiber frame modular system. I mean, it didn’t start that way. And it was started, I mean, a lot of you guys, I mean q you ultralight hunting, that was your slogan brand, how, whatever the right word first, that’s still the name that is.

00:19:51:05 –> 00:20:58:09
But that was, that was what it was built by. But it was to, to have but not just build the lightest up because we all know a certain light things. And even even your pack, you started with really super light pack initially the material was super light and it, it wasn’t as durable quite as durable as evolved. These stuff that sortable evolved. Yeah. And, but yeah. But you didn’t wanna sacrifice it. But, but over time, the happy medium of lightweight and functionality, durability, all those things got met. But talk about the carbon fiber frame evolution of that system because it was, it was revolutionary too. It was, I remember Jason talking about it. I mean, well you too Brendan, when you guys were here just, you know, talking about it and you know, basically almost like you had to sell the carbon fiber concept concept, you know, it was, yeah. It’s that early in carbon fiber. It’s the easiest way to get, I mean it’s, it’s, you know, it’s way lighter. It’s got more strength and it’s got more and it’s got some movement in it. You know, that was the big thing with, and it was basically solving a problem that had been the same. I mean, aluminum stays and aluminum frames had been the standard for, I don’t know, 60, 70, 50 years. You know? Right.

00:20:58:09 –> 00:22:00:16
Like, I mean, long time, it’s like just looking at it, solving a problem through technology and yeah, I mean, we literally went to a, you know, Jason went to a rocket scientist and, you know, and there’s been a lot of iterations of it. And, and yeah, we, we figured out, you know, like we built the lightest one possible in the beginning and we found that, you know, between, you know, four and a half and six pounds now and, and there’s a, there’s a sweet spot of durability and strength and, and being too light maybe. And y yeah, they’re definitely, we, we built some packs that were crazy, crazy. I some guys, you know, some guys love that stuff. I’m, I’m more on the durability side and, and functionality I wanna have. I, I’m a little more organized. Like there, there’s a, there’s a spot there where like, too light for me. Like I, I don’t like to pack with no pockets. No, no pockets. Yeah. I like to be super organized and I, and you know, you can, we can build a pack with, you know, again, the modular pack system was, it had been done, but it had never been done. Well, I mean, you, you, and now, you know, with us to be able to go from 1800 to 7,800 with the same frame that fits you perfectly in the same suspension, it’s a pretty nice deal. I mean, it, it really is.

00:22:00:16 –> 00:23:00:09
And it’s just come, you know, it’s taken some, some iterations and it’s taken a lot of development. I, I don’t, you know, people don’t realize how much development goes into those things and how many times, you know, we’ve, we’ve had like, we test everything first ourselves, you know, so it’s like, you know, I’ve been on hunts where we, you know, we had a great idea, put something into, you know, got a couple prototypes and sent ’em out to, you know, the guys we have test them in the, in the toughest spots in the world. And then all of a sudden you’re like, well, that’s not gonna work. And you know, obviously we never want somebody to, to, to hunt in something that, that didn’t make the cut for us. So same with the packs. And, and a lot of it has been customer feedback. I mean, like, you know, just, just things that they want. And, you know, and, and again, it doesn’t fall on deaf ears because again, that’s the end user. Like that’s, that’s new, that’s new information that nobody’s ever had when they were developing products or when they were developing their line is like a direct contact with the end user, the person that’s actually purchasing that thing. And that, you know, you get the best feedback, good or bad. And there’s been some bad, like sometimes it doesn’t go great.

00:23:00:18 –> 00:24:01:06
So let’s talk about the pack just a little bit for some of those guys out there that maybe haven’t seen it or, or purchased one themselves. You got the carbon fiber frame, you got the pro suspension, and then you’ve got different bags. The 4,000, 50, 500, 7,000, you know, 2300, 3600, yeah. 1850. Yeah. So you got day packs, extreme backpacks all can be done on the same pack frame, but, and then you got the pack accessories and different things. So maybe just, you know, run, run us through the line. Yeah, I mean, the concept is to get one suspension and frame that fits you perfectly and then the modularity to do what? Like, I mean, again, I mean we’re all, whether you’re taking a short trip out to, you guys are hanging trail cameras or you’re going out shed hunting or, you know, you go out for a day hunt like, I’m going bear hunting tonight, you know, I’m gonna take a 3,600, like I have one f you know, frame. I don’t have, you know, you, you don’t wanna have 50 different packs. I mean, I have one frame that fits me like a glove. It’s awesome. And I, I’ll just throw on a 3,600 tonight and take that. Or you, you know, you’re going on Sheep Hunt and you’ve got a 7,800 and you’ve got all your stuff back from the same thing.

00:24:01:07 –> 00:25:09:27
So the, the concept and, and like, I believe it’s the best for the, definitely for the way I hunt. And, and, and the feedback we’ve got is that, and we have ultralight packs too. We have our, our lightweight system that is, you know, doesn’t have a ton of features. They’re basically not a lot of pockets for the guy that’s, I mean, they’re still like super obsessed out ounce counters out there for sure. And we have all those options that are available. So yeah, if you haven’t tried one of those, you’re, and, and it’s, it’s, it’s comfortable adjustable. Like, and, and we learned a lot during the process of building packs that we had to make ’em more durable than you think you would ever need. There’s some real animals out there that do do some crazy stuff with Pax and, and, and then body types too. I mean, like we, we went through a few different iterations to make it so that it’ll fit anybody. I mean it’s, you know, short, short, tall, whatever, everything. Yeah. You do tend to build stuff that you like yourself. And so that’s the part of one of the things that our testing process over the last decade, we really, you know, really dialed in is like making sure you’re getting the right person to test the gear in the right situation. And then getting in enough different people’s hands that you trust to give you quality feedback.

00:25:10:00 –> 00:26:04:25
I mean, you know, we’ve, we’ve had lots of guys that test, you know, once or twice and everything’s always great. Like, I literally, I, I’ve got, we’ve got a group of people that test stuff for us, and they, they’re like, no one is harder on our stuff than myself. And, and Jason was really hard on gear for shoot too. I mean, it was like every time we’d dealt with guides, they were just like, man, you guys are really hard on your stuff. Like, how we want tweak. Yeah. We own the place, tweak fix. We own the place, we wanna make it better. You know, you wanted to make, you wanted to make it better all the time. And so you’re like, yeah, there’s, you know, it’s like, yeah, you can always improve. It’s not like anything gets to the point where like, yeah, this is the greatest. It’s, it’s, it’s never gonna, it’s never gonna be better. I mean, yeah. So it’s like just making sure it gets fully tested by guys that, that are, that are really hard on stuff. And we’ll give you honest feedback. ’cause you know, like I said, sometimes you get feedback from the same guy three times and it’s always great, and you’re like, oh, he’s off the test list. Like, you gotta be on you. You can’t, you gotta be, you gotta just gotta be straight up. You’re not gonna hurt my feelings.

00:26:04:25 –> 00:27:04:28
You’re not gonna, the development team’s not gonna get hurt. Like we, we just want to know what’s the best. So that’s, and, and you know, I mean like when you talk about him, obviously we’re talking about gear specific stuff right now, but when you talk about, like, there’s a lot of things in the overall company that nobody ever sees. I mean, like, we have a tremendous development room on our, our sourcing and our, all our stuff that’s available to us overseas. Our supply chain is, you know, is far different than most companies, upper management, all that kind of stuff. I mean, like, we have, it takes a lot to build really quality stuff and to keep and to keep a company focused at what they do best and not, not stray too far into stuff that we don’t do. Great. Well, that, you know, that’s all perfectly true. And I’ve seen it, I mean, I’ve used probably every version of your pack because it felt like I might’ve skipped one, who knows? Felt like you. Well, you want the best of the best and as they’re innovating, you want the newest well, and you see a feature, a few different pocket features or just design or layout, and you’re like, yeah, that, that makes sense. That’s, you know, and I would give my 2 cents over the years and, you know, as with hundreds of others would do.

00:27:05:21 –> 00:28:12:04
And it’s just evolved into now I feel, I I, I honestly feel, and, and this is not true, but it feel, it feels like the PAC system can’t get any better. I mean, I’m the guy that, I’ve got my PAC system perfectly and I maybe a little bit spoiled, but I have my 78 and I have my with a separate frame. That’s right. And Adam wants to go grab it. He doesn’t even wanna unbuckle anything. I grab this pack, I grab that pack, that’s whatever. I don’t normally go down to the 18 or 30 twos. I I just don’t even when I, you know, hang trail cameras or things, I probably get a little bit bigger. It’s like you can cinch ’em down and, and they compress. I take a slightly bigger pack, you know, the five to 56 or eights is what I end up packing 80% of the time. Even when I’m hunting and guiding sheep, hunters, that’s what I normally wear. Normally if I have to stay overnight or I’m on a backpack trip, I go with a bigger one. But that, that 56, 58 range feels like I can always expand it, carry a desert sheep out when we kill it. I never have to go back and I still pack enough clothes, food gear for me, hunter or myself, whatever, or, and I’m talking deer too. Deer, sheep, you know, Elk’s a different beast.

00:28:12:06 –> 00:29:10:19
But, but for something that, hey, I can kill it. It’s not too heavy on my back. I can kill it. I can bring it out in a load with me and a hunter. So anyway, go from day pack. I probably, when I’m guiding, I generally use the 6,000 the most. Yeah. You can get a full-sized big horn in there, life size and, and, and, yeah. I mean you can, it’s a giant day pack where you can suck it down where it’s not very, it’s not even there or not very heavy and Yep. Yeah. I mean you, and, and that’s, that’s part of the beauty of, we built so much stuff now that like you, you, you can develop your own system and like we’re all opinionated and we, you know, everybody’s got their opinion on what’s best. Like I personally love Marino next to skin that we make great synthetic that that next to skin. I mean, some guys don’t like Marino and X Skin. That’s why we build both, both options is like, you’re gonna develop your, your custom system. I mean, we’re, we give you enough information and we build the best products we can possibly build. And then, you know, when you try, like everybody can develop their own system. I mean, there’s not, there’s not a, there’s not a magic bullet for every, every hunt.

00:29:10:20 –> 00:30:12:23
It’s, it’s, it’s, you know, you build your own based on experience and we wanna make sure that, you know, whatever, whatever it is you need, you can get that from us. So that’s, that’s, that’s part of it too. Again, that just comes down to that deeper customer connection and, and the feed feedback and, and the, and the fact that they have access to all that, all the information on what, how and and, and how it’s gonna perform. Seems like over time you guys have, you know, come out with a lot of different products. But tell us, I mean, seems like, was it 2018 the hybrids was kind of the thing? 2019, the Katana series, any of that? Yeah, Katana series. Peloton, I mean, yeah. Let’s, I don’t know if we wanna go one at a time and just kind of say why, you know, we start out with the attack some of the Tory, then we had the, you know, the, the down the attack and then the super town, you know, and the evol. Yeah. I mean the, when you, when you look at like, the attack pan, I mean that’s, so that’s a stretch woven pan without elastic. And, and, and I still don’t think there’s anything on the market that competes with that fabric. And a lot of our fabrics now, which, which are the same, is that they don’t, they don’t become giant over time.

00:30:12:23 –> 00:31:11:18
And like you take out a 10 day hunt, it fits the same on day one as it does on day 10, which you can’t say about a lot of products because they get exhausted from stretching elastic and, and, and just, you know, like I said, that that, that that’s a 10-year-old fabric that has been like, it’s, it’s stood the test of time and, you know, you move on to like treated down. We, our first, yeah, our first insulated mid layer was a, was a PrimaLoft spin synthetic. It was great that, that was as good as it was at the time. And then as, as treated down became, and I remember, I, I remember seeing the first, the first treated down stuff, like Jason was just always ahead of his time on that. I remember thinking, man, I don’t know about that. ’cause I had had bad experience with down and we all, we all afraid of it. When you go on a Sheep point or something, like, I was terrified I would take a synthetic bag every time because I just don’t if that gets wet. Yeah. Because it’s foolproof. You are, you’re in troubles, right? On your, on a, yeah, we were all using those North Face synthetic bags. Yeah. Because it was just like, if you get wet, this is gonna ruin your hunt. I remember he was just like, this is, this is, this is what is gonna take over.

00:31:12:02 –> 00:32:11:01
And I mean, I was like, man, I don’t know. Like I, I actually at the time thought I was like, man, I don’t know because I just had not had the experience with it. He just, he just knew like he knew the technology. He was just like, this is gonna take over. And I mean, we literally stopped building that to start building everything and treat it down in quicks down almost overnight. And it was such a huge gain in, in weight savings. Oh yeah. And, and in performance now too. It’s warmer. Yep. And that was always the knock on is that if it gets wet, it’s gonna, you know, it’s gonna leave you hanging still keep now, I mean we, we, we’ve gone back, we’ve got synthetics now that are, that are better designed. Like our, our our Kenai our Kenai stuff is, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s unlined synthetic insulation, so it’s breathable insulation, active insulation. So now versus those old ones, which were shiny and, and you get all sweated up, we have insulation now that you can run in, you can, like, it’s gonna breathe. It’s also gonna keep you warm. And so just the progression of technologies and, and, and when you come down to, like, you’re talking about the hybrids earlier. Yeah. You know, the, it, it really comes down to putting the perfect fabric in the perfect place.

00:32:11:06 –> 00:33:04:26
I mean, like you, you know, there’s sometimes in a late season, like let’s just say in our, you know, some of our products now have, you know, waterproof hood, waterproof shoulders, waterproof butt waterproof knees. You don’t need it everywhere. You just need it in those places that are gonna, that like in the access stuff, you’re gonna, where you’re gonna need it in the late season when whether it’s snowing or light rain. But a soft shelf is perfect for that. So, I mean, the hybrid stuff is really exciting because you can have, you know, fleece in the arms and insulation in the body. Like you can, you can pick the perfect fabric to go in the perfect spot based on the performance that you’re trying to get. So that, those, that’s very exciting. We have a lot more of that stuff coming. And those, those are the cool ones where you can just like, man, boy, it’d be really nice to have this there. You know, you don’t need the same thickness of fabric or, or performance underneath your arm as you do in your chest on your core or, you know, that’s, that’s where the, the hybrids are super exciting. Awesome. What have you got? What’s new coming out? Is there anything you can talk about?

00:33:05:03 –> 00:34:04:29
I’m sure you guys are, we got a couple, we got a couple new things that I cannot talk about, but like, they’re coming out at the end of the, we, we have one that’s a, that’s a summertime piece that’s coming out in the next month. You guys are gonna love this thing. It’s like awesome. Right in your guys’ wheelhouse. Yeah. Been working on it for a long time. It’s awesome. And then we have some coming out in early fall that I, I’ve been kind of developing with, with that. We’ve, that’s been needed for like five years. It’s been in the works and I mean, the team has worked so hard on these pieces and when you see it, you’ll like, oh man, it, it’s one of the coolest pieces we’ve, we’ve developed. I’m super excited about that. Nothing I can tell you specifically about, it’s gonna be, is it gonna be available for the hunts? Possibly the mid or late season hunts this year? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yep. I think it’s gonna come out in August, September. August or September. Yeah. Dang. It’s a late season piece. So right on that. That’s, that’s, that’s really exciting. And yeah, I mean, like, it’s, it is funny when you look back, like we came down to, to visit you guys a decade ago and it’s like, like look at the changes in life. Look at the difference now.

00:34:04:29 –> 00:35:09:01
Look, I mean, where you guys are at where like it’s, you know, where the industry is at, it’s like, man, 10 years. It’s like, it’s just crazy. Like if we just sat down and say, Hey, crazy to change man. Crazy to change. Yeah. 10 years from now, what do you, what do you think it’s gonna look like? You know, if you, if you’d have told me 10 years ago that 18 points everywhere didn’t mean anything, I said, you’re crazy. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well that’s right. And you know, Jason, at the time, he, he was hitting reboot on ku, his, I guess second wave. And a year after we met with you guys, we, we went a different way and hit reboot on our second gen business, epic Outdoors. And it’s going awesome. We did a podcast with Jason about that. Yeah. You know, we did, we did. How it was similar. Our companies are a little bit similar parallel in some regards. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Had a former life. Now we have a great life. You know what I mean? So, yeah. I mean, and when, when you guys, when you guys started Epic, I’m gonna say like, obviously this industry is built on relationships and you guys were the first sport. You guys were the first onboard, always had a ton of respect for you guys. And you know, hey, things change, business has changed, things happen, all that stuff.

00:35:09:02 –> 00:36:10:11
But like, people don’t, you know, people, people don’t change the, the people that had your back when took a chance on you in the beginning. ’cause like I already, you know, the, the first like advertising budget was pretty damn tight when we came down and saw you. And I remember it was like a really good deal and like, hey, believe in this thing. And I remember chasing was incredibly appreciative of having, you know, the credibility you guys to go to vouch for this thing that was just coming out. Yeah. And then again, yeah, when you guys went over the new thing, it was like, it goes both ways. I recall he was number one, first ones on board, right? Yeah. He was, he was the first first one to write the check. We had others shortly after, but he was, he didn’t even hesitate. He, he was our number one supporter. He, he knew, he just knew, I guess believed in us enough, maybe like we did with you guys, you know, just a few short years earlier. And that’s been much appreciated. A new new projects are nerve wracking as you know. I mean, you just, you know things, you’re nervous and so you appreciate those guys that believe in you. Jason believed in us, we believed in you guys, so it’s awesome. Yeah. And you, I mean, you know how businesses go, like, I mean, the first three years were, they were tough.

00:36:10:22 –> 00:37:09:05
I you’re just trying to get up on playing Didn’t look like it. Yeah, yeah. From the outside it’s like there’s a lot of, you know, things are going amazing now. It’s, it’s incredible. But like, the amount of hard work that goes into a new business, not just the founder, the whole team around ’em, you’re getting new people. I mean, we have, we have a pile of people at Kuku now at are like, everybody’s just amazing at their, at their lane, you know, whether it’s, you know, in development or in it or in, you know, everything that you see behind the scenes. I mean, the fact that your package shows up at your house looking exactly like it is, that’s not an accident. There’s somebody behind there that, that is making sure that that experience and returns and calls and all this, like, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing how big they get. But there’s a lot of hard work goes behind the scenes and, and it’s, you know, it takes a lot of faith from a lot of customers too. I mean, like the entire company. Like, we owe everything, the whole company, everything we’ve ever done literally is because of our customers, period. End of story. And there’s like, you can have the best designs in the world. You can have the best ideas, you can be the coolest guys in the world.

00:37:09:06 –> 00:38:08:07
You can go on the coolants, you can show anything, but if the customers don’t believe in your product, you’re gonna go out of business and Well, and that’s, that’s very, you just got amazing customers. There’s a lot of, as you guys, you know, there’s a lot of parallels. I mean, your, your business q you jumped into an industry, although you guys were doing gonna be doing things different than anybody else had done. But you’re still jump jumping into from a lot of people on the outside. You’re jumping into the outdoor hunting gear world and you’re like, wow, is there room for them? I mean, okay, we’ve already talked about how many gear companies can there be. That’s right. And similar to us when we, how many information companies can there be? Yeah. Epic outdoors. Okay. There’s, there’s another hour splitting pies, you know, and c and certain people are thinking that. But it does come down 100% to the people that believe in you, the customers that adhere to you, that trust you, that, that know your gear’s gonna get ’em where they need to be and perform the way it’s gonna be. And they’ll be loyal for life. If, if you produce that and put it putting out a quality product, putting out the best, the best product you can. Well, burns let’s, yeah, you, you definitely have to do your part.

00:38:08:08 –> 00:39:08:17
But at the end of the day, it’s like you guys, like, I mean, you’ve lived that lifestyle and, and yeah, I mean like, I’d, I’d love to actually look at your guys, your two guys’ points bank, like, just, just to see, I mean, it’s like, I know it’s, I know it’s far more stunning than mine. In fact, wanna loan me a few? I’d be, I’d be far, I’d be fine with that. But you know, it’s like, it doesn’t come overnight. I mean, you don’t, you don’t end up with the number of opportunities that, that No. That you guys have had without like, it, it that, you know, you’ve been doing it since the eighties, nineties. Like that’s a long time. It’s the only good thing about being old burns. You got some points. You know what I mean? You know, that we know that we’re not getting any younger. Let’s talk about your goat hunt that you, you had up there in Montana. Let’s talk about that. You’ve had some amazing hunts over the years. You’ve killed a lot of big stuff. Steve, you drew a rocky tag, what, four or five years prior to that? Maybe 3 20, 15. Yeah. Yeah. Kill a giant inch crew, man. I know you’re getting tired of killing stuff, but let’s, and then finally had the goat. Yeah, no, I, this goat hunt was, and it was kind of like a a, I mean, it’s just a funny thing.

00:39:08:17 –> 00:40:09:03
Like I was basically, oh, for 29 on one in 10 odds when I started applying for go, it was one in four. And I literally just like, it was just, I, I thought it was like a conspiracy. I mean, I could not draw a go tag to save my life. I mean, Adam and I joked about, oh, like it was almost yearly, like the annual, did you get a denied? I mean, no, hes like Bron moose tag that he’s waiting for. Well, I’ve got, do you have I got 20 points for Montana Moose. I mean, it’s like, I’m not proud of those gonna happen, but I mean, happen, I’m scared of when it happens. Like what am I gonna have Carter to clear your schedule, but mo like your odds are with moose, your odds are terrible with goat there. I mean, like honestly for goat, 29 years about drawing goat. Yeah. I drew my nine resident goat tag the third time I applied Montana. And I remember, you know, you knew that, but that was like two, 2000, what? 13 is that long time? No, three 2003, I mean three. Yeah. Yeah. 2003 Bronson. That’s dang near 20 years ago. It’s, yeah. So I, I when I, I, I had a unit that I, that I had helped count the goats in before they started the season. They started hunting at 97. And I just like, it was always where I wanted to hunt goats.

00:40:09:03 –> 00:41:08:02
And I, like, I had this, I, I just like, it was dead set in my mind. The odds were really good. And yeah, finally jerseys this year. Yep. Spent, spent a pile of summer, me and my son, we scouted my, my son’s eight and we scouted a ton and I found a bunch of big Billys and, and yeah. Went in there. I was like, I was going to eat the tagger kill one with my bow and I’m, I’m, I’m hunting a, a great big Billy too. Like, and, and yeah, it was one of those hunts where like my sheep hunt in 2015 could not look. It was the most unbelievable hunt I’ve ever, I mean, spent 25 days passed up, you know, 40 different rams killed a mega giant with my bow. Like it was just the absolutely best hunt I’ve ever had in my entire life. This hunt for goat absolutely kicked my ass. I mean, I could not buy any good luck. I mean, IE every single time I went after I had about five big bullies that I was hunting and I couldn’t get close to ’em or get something to break my way no matter what I did. And I was hunting them in pretty, some thick timber. Like it was a really hot year. So they were living in places that you just didn’t think goats would be. And they were just super old bullies.

00:41:08:02 –> 00:42:03:23
And they were like way more skittish than I thought they would be like, yeah. Goats in general, like when they see a lot of people, I was hunting places that, that they didn’t see a lot of people, not a lot of predators, not a lot of people in general. And they were just, that’s why they were skittish. Right? Crazy spooky. I mean like, and every stock was crossed big canyon, so it was like three and a half hours to get around and if they’d move, I just like, lots of bad luck and, but it was, it was fun, but it was just trying. I, I thought I would get it done. I mean, I starting to question like, I I, I didn’t feel that good at hunting several days during this trip. It was just like amateur hour stuff. Like I just could not catch a break. Yeah. Just kept after. Yeah. Like, you know, 18, 20, I got it written down like, you know, around 20 days, you know, I scouted about 20 days and hunted, you know, I ended up in early October, I finally caught one in a really good spot, Billy. I had been watching all year and then when it all came together was just like, oh, that’s how it’s supposed to work. That’s pretty easy. That could have happened the first time. Yeah.

00:42:03:23 –> 00:43:00:25
You know, 350 pound giant horse headed, 10-year-old Billy, like exactly what I was looking for and shot him at 10 yards and it was kind of one, one more off the list. But it was, it was a, it was just a really, really tough hunt. I, I like, I earned it. It was, it was just one of those where you’re just like, I can’t believe this was this hard. And yeah, you just gotta, you gotta keep going. Yeah. Well, and you, and then make sure you realize, I mean, and I know it’s different country, you get in areas like with a lot of cliffy, leggy, country and timber, just keeping track of a goat. Maybe those times, maybe you were by yourself, maybe you had friends a lot of the time or all the time. I don’t know. But it doesn’t matter. You get on the wrong side of a V gorge that’s 150 yards wide and the go goat moves and you’re, you’re pretty much alleged out for that. Yeah. Every stock I went on was three and a half hours around, basically like they’re big basins and they’re like, okay, they’re beded, he betted a second time, should be there all day. That’s in the dark. And you get around there and they’re gone. It kills the whole day. You’re done. And you can’t see anything from that side. And then you go back around, it’s like, oh, you moved 40 yards.

00:43:00:25 –> 00:43:57:29
But I wasn’t willing to blow ’em out. Yeah. This and that. And you know, and it is one of those things too, like anybody who’s ever hunted goats, you know, two and 3-year-old Billy’s are pretty stupid. Yeah. Nannies that are accustomed seeing people are pretty dumb. Like they’re, they’re just not afraid of people. But these, these big 10-year-old Billys, if you really know what you’re looking at, you’re looking at like basically a mountain goat that looks like a buffalo. I mean, they’re 10 years old for a reason. They’re, they’re not social. They generally got one or two other buddies with ’em or around somewhere, but they’re, they’re not dumb. And they were like, I, they’re so spooky. I mean, so spooky. ’cause they’ve seen it all, you know, they kind of just hang out where nobody can get to ’em. And they’ve, they’ve been pushed to those areas or whatever, but they, yeah, they were, I mean, like I said, you most people look at a field photo, they go, they go like, oh man, that’s cool. You know, like, you look at as a two or 3-year-old Billy, good job. Good job. That’s cool. 25, 30 days later, good job. Yeah. Or, or somebody, you know, like you’re, you’re bow hunting and all of a sudden it’s like, ah, you know, it’s like killing kill a nanny or whatever. Like, that’s fine. Like I, it was not an option for me.

00:43:57:29 –> 00:44:54:01
Like, I’m gonna kill a giant Billy. It was a tough hunt. Like, I mean, it just, it just was, it was tough hunt. I mean, I didn’t, I didn’t hunt elk in Montana this year at all because of this goat tag. I didn’t get a single day out. Was it a Wyoming tag? Was, was it worth it down there because you love elk? Oh, it was worth it. It was a off, basically you could say you gave up a three 70 plus bull, three 80, whatever for, for that goat. I, I’d love to say that you never know that. They’re hard to get all the time too. But, you know, it was, it was awesome hunt. I think every now and again, you just need one of those where you just like, it’s just, it’s mental. You just have to keep going. Like it’s, it, everybody I’m sure from the outside looks like, oh, killed a huge goat. That had to be great. Like, you know, when you’re talking 15, 20 days of honey, like, and not just like sitting on the truck glass and I’m talking like getting in there, getting after it. It’s, it’s, those are the ones that you like, you like, you really love it, but man, it can be hard. So it was just, just an awesome, huh. And ended up killing me.

00:44:54:03 –> 00:45:58:17
I was, so I had a cameraman with me, my Matt for was with me quite a bit and he eventually had other stuff he had to do, so ended up killing his, so ended up killing solo know, 40 days later a guy needs to go back, go do something different. Yeah. End up ended up kill, ended up killing it solo. Had a nightmare pack out, got got beat up in the timber on the way out. Like just did it all on a, you know, so it just down one of you look back on down kinda the way you wanted it to go down. Really. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I I, I don’t, you know, home state seven, your weight will be fine. That’s right. Home state. That’s bittersweet. I mean, you buddy grinder. Well, well that’s awesome. Maybe before we start wrapping up, I just wanted to, you know, make sure that we, for our listeners that, I mean a lot of people know that q you, we’ve talked a lot about clothing. Clothing and the packs. I mean, we’ve talked a lot about that and, and obviously that you’re well known and, and deservedly so for those, but you make a lot of other gear accessories, you know, vinyl harnesses, tents, you know, tents, the, you know, we mentioned it, sleeping bags. Yep. Sleeping bags are coming back in sometime not too far down the road. Yeah, yeah. You know, 10 tents.

00:45:58:17 –> 00:46:58:19
I mean, the goal gators to make, I mean, just gear, all kinds of gear. You know, Gators just wanted you to kind of run through some of the different stuff you guys are doing. Our our our goal has always been to be one stop everything you need to go on a she hunt or an Alcon or what, like everything you need. I mean, that’s, that’s the goal. Like everything, everything is built to be, you can get fully outfitted with everything you’re possibly gonna need depending on the hunt. You know, it’s, it’s obviously a layering system from skin to shell, backpack, tent, sleeping bag, belt, socks, boots, gear, everything, anything you need. I mean, we have so many products now that are designed for, you know, really the adventure, the mountain hunter that, you know, that’s, that’s the buy harness. That’s, I love the buying harness. I mean the gloves, you just, you look at your glove lineup. I mean, you look at that, you gotta do some reading on there to find out what you’re, I mean, it’s not just, here’s some gloves, you know? Yeah. The vinyl harness is a cool one. I mean, like, I love the people don’t even realize there’s more copies of our vinyl harness. Like when we came out with the first vinyl harness in 2011, there was zero on the market.

00:46:58:28 –> 00:47:58:00
The, the, the only Bino harness out there and all like, I’ll definitely give Michelle Lenis Janssen’s Crooked Horn was the dominant player in the Bino system. And that was like a Bino strapp the harness with that strap. Yes, that’s right. Yeah. We did, yeah. Bounce. In fact, we had a private label, you know, back in our former life. Yeah. That, that was the Bino system. I mean, we, we, there, there’s about, I mean our vinyl system was really the first one that was built to secure your buys, be able to get it free. I mean, it’s been the most knocked off thing we’ve ever done. And now, I mean, look at how many vinyl systems are on the market. Well, well, and you guys even you, I mean, just like everything else, just like everything else, you’ve, you’ve gone through iterations and improved them, you know? Yep. From the ability to, you know, the newest one now. I mean, I I love it. You, you, yeah. The new new and it was silent. It’s, it’s awesome. Everything. Yeah. That was a lot of customer feedback of like, well, you know, you know, and, and again, I, I still use the original a pile. I love it for bow hunting. It’s super lightweight, but people are just carrying more stuff on their chest. I mean, that’s, that’s just how it is.

00:47:58:00 –> 00:48:54:25
Whether it’s your cell phone or, you know, cleaning stuff, rangefinder range, range finders, all that stuff. Like they’re, they’re just like more accessible stuff. I don’t know if it’s partially probably military influence on a lot of it too. But yeah, we, we, it was a reaction to how can we build, you know, we still build a great original, but like the pro system was, how can we make it better? I mean, we still got a little stocking pack on it. We’ve got, you know, all the accessories you could possibly need. Like you just grab that thing and go. So that, I mean, yeah, we, you know, those are, those are the, those are the really fun projects to work on. Like really fun. Well, yeah, because you, I mean, when you’re hunting ’em, when you’re scouting, I mean, you’re taking those in and out all the time. And if you’re frustrated with something, it’s motivating you to let’s fix this. Or like when you take Yeah, take your binos off, you’re off your handhold, you want unclip ’em to put ’em on your tripod. You guys fix that solution. So, so you just don that. You don’t have the whole harness fall off your back, you know, over your shoulders now just unclip it and it’s right there when you put ’em back in, just clip ’em back in.

00:48:55:25 –> 00:50:02:18
You know, whether it’s 12 power or occasionally your 15 power, if you’re wearing those, it’s or tens. Some people put tens on tripods too. So Yeah, just innovation never rests. That is the, that’s, that’s another one of your mantras. I mean that is, and that’s true. There’s truer words are never spoken about ku, you don’t seem to just rest for long. You don’t sit back and watch the grass grow and wait for something to change. Change grass doesn’t grow down here. B Bronson no. We’re, we’re in a drought. No, you know. No, it does not. Well anyway. No, it’s, it’s, yeah, well, like I said, we’ve always appreciated you guys’ support and, and, and it’s been a lot, it’s been a long time. And hopefully the next, next decade is the same. And yeah, again, it’s just, just awesome. Customers have definitely made it happen for us. I mean, all that like, yeah, it’s been, it’s just crazy to look back on and, and it’s not over, that’s for sure. But it’s, it’s, it’s, this was just, you know, as a company to just take a break and kind of, you know, see where it’s come. I mean, it’s amazing. It’s, when you think about, I mean like, or originally when, when, when Jason offered me the job to come work at ku, he was like, dude, this is gonna be just a, like, here here’s his, his vision for it.

00:50:03:12 –> 00:51:05:16
It, it’s not even close, not like it’s so much more successful than even a guy who’s, you know, like totally optimistic and a complete dreamer and a, and a, like a visionary, an innovator. Like it’s so much bigger and so much better than he could have than it, than it we would ever thought. Like it’s just amazing how far it’s gone. Well, and I think we should, I think it’s noteworthy to mention, I think you were probably the first guy that he wanted to bring on board and, and he had a ton of respect for you even, you know, so much so Burns, you’re part owner of this place. It’s Yeah, I was the first employee and Melissa, the CEO now, she was the second employee like a week later. But yeah, it’s, it’s cool to be, to be, to be brought in on something early and to be, you know, like you only get a few chances in life to, to be a part of something that, that, you know, can truly be a disruptor and, and, and change an industry and, and be along for the ride. So it’s been, I I think that says a lot about incredible, I think that says a lot about you and your influence, your enthusiasm and whatnot. And so anyway, to bring you on, be the number one guy he was thinking about, I think it’s awesome.

00:51:05:21 –> 00:52:12:07
I think it’s a testament to you and your dedication to the company and products and innovation and everything. So, and, and Jason did that with like, I mean, again, nobody sees like obviously we know each other, so this podcast are always us three, but nobody sees the behind the scenes of he, he, he did that and we’ve continued to do that with every single person at KU is brought on the same way. Like, like they’re really good at what they do. Well we, you know, it’s not like we’re just taking anybody that will like, I mean, the people that work there are tremendous at their job. They’re, they’re, they’re the expert in whatever they do within, within the system too. And that that’s, you know, a company’s nothing without great people. And there’s just a lot of great people there that, that make it happen every day. I get, you know, obviously we always get to do the glamorous stuff and people see, but there’s a lot of really hard work that goes on behind the scenes, A lot of awesome people that are involved and yeah, it just, it doesn’t, it doesn’t happen without a great team and, and of people that, that work super hard. Not everybody has the same vision and it’s been, yeah, it’s pretty incredible and it’s, it’s gonna be cool to see where it goes. Vision. Well, vision team and customers buddy. That’s right. Vision team and customers.

00:52:12:07 –> 00:53:05:19
Well, congratulations to you, the whole team. I mean, you’ve added a lot, you know, like we, we start from two or three of us here, four of us, and you know, we’re not as big as QU but we know what it means. No, we’re not. We’re we know what it means to have great employees that you can count on, depend on and have credibility, respect, work ethic, all those things. So any you very commendable the way you and Jason have gone about orchestrating, picking that, you know, over the years and before we end, I guess, and you know, whatcha gonna go on? Whatcha you gonna kill, burn, gonna kill this year? Yeah. What’s on the plate for 2021? Well, we’ll, you know, I, I’m, I’m, I’m cautiously optimistic. I really hope Canada’s it’s, it is been like I didn’t get to go sheep hunting last year and that year. I’m not that, that sounds like that’s definitely a, a me problem, not anybody else’s, but nobody feels that. It’s such a weird Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, well it’s such a weird thing to not have the ability to go. Yeah.

00:53:05:19 –> 00:54:10:01
Like you, I, I don’t go she hunting every single year, but when you have one booked and you want to go, you know, so I really hope the Canadian thing kind of comes to its senses and, and you know, like, I mean for all those outfitters up there, it’s, it’s such a tough thing for them. It is. And like, I, I really hope Canada at least influence some to help, help. Like, again, you got guys up there, like they’ve got their whole livelihood tied up and stuff and I mean, you think about missing two years of business, like that’s, that’s devastating and for like, again, whatever your political feelings or what, like literally for no reason at this point in time. Like they, they need to, you know, people need to come to their senses and, and, and just be able to get things back to normal. So I hope Gulf Canada, were you gonna hunt to Gulf she, Gulf of Canada or Stone Sheep? What was, what’s on the, what would be the plan? I got a couple of different options because one rolled over canceled last year, but hopefully stone sheep in the Yukon. But that, and then, you know, I’m super excited about Montana. I said I did not hunt elk in Montana last year. I’m super excited to hunt elk again. Like it’s always, this is my favorite thing every year. It’s always a huge challenge. Yeah.

00:54:10:02 –> 00:55:07:10
And then, and then we’ll see, you know, like I, I joked about it earlier, but I, I points man I didn’t start as early as you guys, but you gotta love, I’ve got about 18 points everywhere, which sadly is not enough. Yeah. So something could fall in my way, but you gotta get lucky. Yeah, yeah. It’s just crazy to think that, you know, that that’s what it takes at this point in time and, and so yeah, we’ll see, I mean, there’s always something going on. My son’s just about to turn nine, so he’s, he’s getting, you know, he’s going with me whenever he can and we’re, we’re, we’re gonna go Blackberry hunt up in Alaska this spring and so Yeah, I mean just, we’ll see how it goes. Awesome. Kinda like you guys, you kind of, you, you plan for the stuff you know of and then you react to the really good luck. That’s right. So once most the good luck comes around, we’ll we’ll figure it out. I’m sure there’s a big bull in trouble in Montana this, this year somewhere. He certainly don’t know. Yeah, because he, he’s a big bull dead and he don’t even know it. He has two years built up a pinned ity aggression and he’s ready to go. So. Yeah. Well, we’ll we’ll see. Like I, I, I hope that’s the case and yeah, we’ll see.

00:55:07:10 –> 00:55:32:04
Hopefully, we’ll, we’ll see what, what comes about of the draw and wouldn’t wanna be a Rutten bull out there with burns in my, or a lawn bull or whatever, or whatever. That’s right. Yeah. Alright buddy, well we’ll stay in touch for you. Thanks again. Yeah, we appreciate the time. So yeah man, congratulations on everything. Yep. We’ll have you. Alright guys, well thank thanks again for the support over the years and yeah, we’ll thanks again. Alright, thanks a lot man. Take care later man. Alright, bye.