Q&A Part 3, Hunting the West with Epic Outdoors. In this episode of The Epic Outdoors Podcast, we finish up our Question and Answer series for December 2021. We read from the list of submitted questions without pre planning and answer from within our staff. The questions range from Elk hunting, to Mule Deer tactics, and everywhere in between. Thanks for submitting questions and we look forward to the next opportunity for a Q&A series.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:01:10 –> 00:01:16:00
What do you recommend for Wyoming? Elk got a bunch of points. Hire an outfit or DIY advice. Rifle Limited. Controlled hunts are way different to draw than the archery. People hunt different now than they did 10 years ago. Anything to do with Western Big Games. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Adam Bronson coming at you from Southern Utah. We got the whole crew except for Wyatt. I don’t know what he’s doing. He’s a Grinch right now. He just wants to be alone. One’s gotta work. Yeah. Well, well, you know, we got a magazine to the printer, John. He’s not here so we can crush him, right? We got John here. The magazine’s, the printer. So John and Chris are here. They’re giggly. We got Josh. We got Devin. Jason and I. Wyatt, for some reason, thought he had something more important to do than the third in the sequence of three. Of three q and as. What’s funny about it all is we were waiting for him to get off the phone so we could all come in here. Yeah. Then we wait and wait. We an hour. Wait, wait. And he’s like, yeah, I think I’ll make some more calls. Which is good. Somebody’s gotta do it. And I’m glad it’s not me. Anyway, as we get started, we wanna thank Under Armour, appreciate them and their support here at Epic Outdoors. Thanks. Under Armor, go to ua.com.

00:01:16:05 –> 00:02:32:06
Of course, you want to go to epic outdoors.com, download a coupon, get 40% off of ua. Anything on ua.com. Do that fast because those are going to expire at the end of the year. Yeah, they’re gonna expire. Do you think they’ll give us some new ones? I don’t know. Bron. You never know. What are you touching my drink for? I think you’ve had enough. Well, I mean, that’s just moving, dude. No further away. Thank you. I mean, anyway, I’m not, I’m not even halfway through. I know, but we’ve started off with a twist up this morning and that was a lot. All right. We appreciate Red Rock as well. Red Rock Precision. Super awesome rifles. I use ’em all the time. Of course. Not so much this year, but anyway, you side your guns in Truck Shock were truck. It was in my pack. It was packed it all over. It was your constant companion. Yeah, for like 16 states. Anyway, red Rock precision.com, check ’em out. Incredible rifles. You need a scope to put on it. They’ll do it too. But we sell those too. You want something from us? Give us a holler. We’ll make you a deal you can’t refuse. But anyway, red Rock precision.com. Check out what they’ll do. What I really like about Red Rock, they are very, very custom, but they’re also customizable to you. There’s a lot of these gun guys out there that have got a specific product.

00:02:32:10 –> 00:03:41:06
They, you do well with that product. But these guys will do anything, all kinds of calibers, all kinds of different brands and models of scopes. Anything you wanna do. So it’s kind of cool. Customized, but also customized to you. All right, Bronson, what else do we got? Well save the date everybody. February 10th to the 13th, 2022. Salt Powells Convention Center. Salt Lake City, Western Hunting Conservation Expo. I don’t know what year this is. 12, 13, 14, whatever. Somewhere. 10 plus. But we’ll be there again. We’ve got a great booth there as always. And look forward to meeting and greeting a lot of you. And we’re gonna have some big animals. Yeah, we’re gonna have some big animals. We’re gonna have a big booth. Bigger than we’ve ever had. A bunch of optics there to sell, which is a new addition. We couldn’t do that last year in person because they didn’t have this expo. But one kind of new cool thing. We’ll have our tripods, things like that that you want to touch and see how they go up and down and all that. And how, how they pan can do that. Right in our booth. That’s right. We’re gonna have plenty of room to do that. To be able to see, hear, feel, taste. No, not taste, but a lot. A lot of the other, a lot of the other senses. Somebody’s gonna be licking tripod, who knows. No, I like it.

00:03:41:15 –> 00:04:54:00
But anyway, here’s a pair of bi. What do you sell me them for? Everything But taste you can do in the epic outdoor beer cost. Here we go. Cost. Get outta first person that comes up and says, I just licked your tripod. I’ll give you a hat at the Exfo. No disgusting. Hey, it’s like you break it, you buy it, you lick it, you buy it. Okay, we’re just getting that on the record right now. Full retail. I’m also gonna be worried if I see somebody sniffing vinyls. Yeah. Disgusting. Okay, those are, well you guys, what are we talking about this? See? Move on Bronson and touch. That’s all we’re doing. You, you got the mic. Take us out. This the other two senses. Better not happen. Or you better get your checkbook out. Alright, come on. Alright. Another sponsor of ours that we have here is Triple S. Polaris. Great partners of ours put together an awesome, awesome, what do they call ’em? Side? UTVs. UTVs. I know for us the Epic crew. Pretty awesome. Got it wrapped with our cool logo. That’s what they specialize in, is hunting and or play. Play UTVs, whether you’re Sandman, whether you’re rock climber, whatever. Give Colton. And the guys call Triple S players. They’re based here in Southern Utah, but they’re willing to talk with you. Put something together to meet your needs. Wherever you’re riding. Takes you 4, 3, 5, 8, 6, 5, 0 1 0 0 Triple S, Polaris.

00:04:54:16 –> 00:06:09:10
And you can mention Epic Outdoors ad and get $500 off towards one of your purchases there. Even on a, on a machine. There you go. Yeah. Spend some money here at our optic store. Have a little credit with us. Anyway, you might even might even wrap it with the epic wrap. Well, John Guy right here does it. Some people have, yeah. Pretty awesome. Good. Four-wheelers too. I wanna try one of their three wheelers. One of them ones that do they look like they do 120. But if you wrecked on a three wheeler, isn’t that a deer going, Josh? Going up over the mountain in a snowstorm. Yeah, that’d be classic. Be dumb and dumber. Freaking goggled out. He’d be locked into neutral flying. I don’t know, just something to think about. Kind of made me smile. All right, well anyway, then also we got phone scope. We appreciate them. Chest of the boys. Got a bunch of John freaking pyro. Putty, lighters. Electric ready, lighters. Get ready. Ours are coming in, huh? They’re, they’re about to arrive. You may have seen the, somehow they got off the barge. Yeah, somebody went to work. Somebody paid off Newsom anyway, right. We got some lighters coming. Yeah. Do some backstory on that. Get lighters, bro. And how our lighters were, were, you know, at port for months floating on a barge. Yeah. But they’re here. The epic hunt giveaway, you can get free lighter. We got the $200 package.

00:06:09:10 –> 00:07:22:06
Epic. You get free, free dual arc, lighter package with a couple little envelopes of fire starters stuffed in the bottom part there. Pretty cool. Should be in every pack. Save your life kit. Light somebody up. You can shock ’em, whatever. They’re nasty. This isn’t a taser Carter. 300 strikes per charge. Somebody’s getting lit up. We’re gonna try it. I don’t know. But anyway, you can go to pyro putty.com, check ’em out. Phone scope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P e.com. So anyway, don’t spell it correctly. Do I spell it wrong? Get well we also will have some of those at the expo too, if you wanna. It might even have a special of some kind. Who knows? Maybe a special, we’ll see depending on the species. Okay, let’s Bronson, let’s jump in us out. One more ad real quick. Let’s talk about ourselves. Okay, I’m gonna let you do it. Go ahead. It’s that time of year. Everything’s kicking off in January. Our JA January magazine’s at the printer. emag will be live within, we’ll just say days. John, I don’t wanna put you on the spot. Yeah, but within days before Christmas. How about that? It’s gonna be on there. Can we be, be that bold? I don’t know. Before Christmas day. When do you wanna answer the calls? The, the emag Tuesday. Oh, the email Thema em mag’s up right now. Whoa. Yeah. Okay. It is by the, the, by the time you listen to this, it’s today.

00:07:22:22 –> 00:08:33:13
Cat’s outta the back. Barely getting my desk clear. Anyway, but it’s that time of year. We’re planning for actual 2022 hunts. You know that that magazine includes Arizona, elk and antelope as well as Wyoming sheep, moose scope, bison and elk. But there’s gonna be one follow it every roughly 28 to 30 days. And if you’ve been a podcast listener for days, weeks, months, you know, years, whatever, get out your billfold and join. This may be the time to get that, to be able to help that use as a tool in narrowing down your application strategy and be able to network with other members of Epic Outdoors. Once you draw tags or bounce ideas off one of us consultants. That is a highly used feature of our service in terms of being able to really talk with somebody about Unit X versus Y. For your point situation, your personal preferences. What’s better, what’s worse? Y all that. Are you telling me to apply for Region Y in Wyoming? What are we doing? No. Oh, did not think I said that. Alright, well Unit X. Hey, I think YI think you should try it though. Yeah, tell me how it’s, I would, anyway, maybe we’ll send Wyatt. Yeah, let’s nominate him. In fact, let’s apply him without him knowing. So, but he’s got a hunt budget he needs to use. Anyway, it’s that time.

00:08:33:13 –> 00:09:37:15
And we do have, you know, our epic membership drive hunt giveaway going on right now. If you put it off, haven’t joined, now’s the time to do it. Do it. You get a, a extra ticket in the hat for one of the hunts that were giving away. A doll sheet, pun in Alaska. Moose Hunt in Alaska, Akima Pueblo, elk hunt, New Mexico, Utah, mule Deer Hunt or Nevada Mule Deer Hunt 2 31 or a Arizona Mountain line hunt. Every one of those that I just read off are 2022 Hunts. And we also got a $14,500 optic slash trail camera package as well. So if you put it off, consider joining now before the end of February, before the deadline. And you’ll get an entry in that. You can also buy additional entries like we’ve talked about as well. And there’s some, all the details [email protected] or in your January magazine. You’ll better to read more about that. So we’re starting to get in a couple stories and, and photos from guys that we sent on those hunts that have won in the past. And they’re just phenomenal. No, just, they’re just killing stuff. Somebody’s gonna win ’em. They’re gonna be, they’re fully paid for. And most of these you can’t book. They’re without fitters that are booked out for two, three years in advance. Right. Devin, I can go book to these guys.

00:09:37:20 –> 00:10:47:16
You’re looking two, three years out from right now to book the same hunts that we bought two or two or so years ago. Yep. Didn’t you sell a hunt for 2025? Devin? Couple of ’em in the last couple days. Yeah, I mean, it’s crazy. That’s last species. Were they? Stone sheep, moose? This moose, the one I talked to a guy today booked for 2025 for that moose hunt. Come on. He’s hoping he wins it, but yeah, well, crazy 2025 next opening. It’s kind of what the world we’re in with the, the Canadian Crunch the last two years. A lot of people not going there. Alaska got the overflow and just outfitters, you know, opening. So anyway, we also have a license application service. Anybody out there needing a little help for us to apply ’em? You can do that as well. We charge 50 bucks a state. That’s for two species or less. One or two species. A hundred for three or more in that particular state. With a 500 cap, $500 cap. That’d be five states, three species, five all species. Anywhere. Yeah. Six, seventh, eight states free. So anyway, check it out. Epic outdoors.com. We’d love to help you. Similar to, you know, license applications, just similar to having an accountant doing your taxes. Like you’re still responsible for the tag fees, tags and licenses come direct to you. And then you get to choose.

00:10:47:16 –> 00:11:57:28
If you wanna hire an outfitter, go self-guided, whatever, they’re yours. We’re obviously willing to help you find an outfitter and get you started. But anyway, very similar to an accountant. Accountants, you’re responsible for your own tax burden. I wish my accountant would pay my taxes, but whatever. All right. Enough of that. Bronson, good enough. I I do think though, once some point in time, the podcast should be available to members only. I don’t, I don’t know. Just throwing it out there. No, I can hear gnashing of teeth right now. What does that, what does that sound like? I don’t know. I can’t hear anything anyway. Anyway. It seems fine to me. All right, well, we’ll move on. What, what were you gonna say, John? You’re a fan. No, I was just gonna say on the, the license application, I’ve talked to a couple guys this week. We do your applications. Yes. Have you been happy with this? I’ve been super happy. All right. Keep going. That, that have switched over. I mean, there are guys that are capable. It’s just like your taxes. You can do it if you take enough time and dig into it. But if you got somebody that’s a good financial advisor and does your taxes well, you’re gonna get more money back and you’re gonna, with us, you’re gonna apply for better hunts. You’re gonna have somebody to float things off of. You’re going to not miss a deadline. That’s right.

00:11:58:00 –> 00:13:09:19
So that’s, you know, I talked to a couple guys this week. It’s choosing system week that have missed deadlines and said I’m totally capable of this. I just get busy. And then same thing with taxes. Things change, units change, whatever. Yeah. I got my accountant on speed dial. I know a lot of people got Wyatt on speed dial. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And Adam on speed dial. What have we got in story today? Let’s crush this last round, I guess we would call it, of Q and a. We had a ton of questions you guys sent in. Have been great. We’ve published two of these, right? Chris? Two of these are out and published. Yep. And this is the third installment going into the Christmas break. So anyway, we’re gonna pick up where we left off. I’ll, I’ll read this first one and then you guys chime in. So this guy’s from Illinois said, how should someone in his early forties from Illinois with zero points start hunting western big game, man. How should you start? You know, a lot of guys, they start with over the counter Colorado elk. It seems like we’ve had a lot of guys from the east. That’s their initial. Such a good way to get your feet wet. Yeah, it’s close, but you can only go up relatively from there. Yeah. Like there’s only, it’s only good things. It only gets better. It only gets better.

00:13:10:01 –> 00:14:08:05
But a lot of guys get started from there because they can come do it. Well, I think a lot, I think a lot of guys are, they think they’re behind because they don’t have points built up or I’m so behind in the point game. If you start with a state like New Mexico, you’re no different than any of the rest of us putting in. You know, start with a state that doesn’t require points, things like that. Go with a New Mexico and Idaho, something like that. That you have just as equal chance as anybody else to get a tag. I think that’s a good place to get started too. Don’t think that every state, you’re so far behind. It’s not worth it. I think there’s a lot of guys too that if you can just do they want to go hunting? Like this guy wants to go hunting. Like have a plan. Let’s get you on a hunt. All the while you’re getting points. You’re gonna start in Utah, you’re gonna start in Nevada, you’re gonna start in Arizona, you’re gonna start in Wyoming and Wyoming. It’s such an awesome state. I mean, you could draw a general Elk tag, you know, two to four years. You’re, you know, deer tags and different things. Fairly easy. Colorado we’re always saying three, three to five years. Use your points. I mean that’s three to five years from now. Get started.

00:14:08:14 –> 00:15:15:15
If you have enough of those three to five years, you always have an option about every year that you can command the draw in a certain state. ’cause you’ve always got three to five points ready to go in one state. And the next year, that’s a different state. So that’s probably one thing you need to emphasize is that if your, your trophy expectations are clear to the top and you’re starting in your mid forties or what, however old you are, it may be a while before you go that that isn’t probably the easiest thing to just get your tags right outta the gate. But you’re gonna have to have some more opportunity, easier to draw tags and then maybe a couple of states you, you have in a long-term approach. But there’s plenty of ways to get out west, you know, in one to three years, you know, first year sometimes it’s tough. But even like I said, you’ve got fallback options like go over the counter stuff and you know, Colorado, Utah to electric extent, Idaho, you know, has kind of changed, but you’ve got options. So you gotta first of all, develop a plan on what species are most important to you. You know, elk, deer, you know, antelope, you know, things like that. And get, get going, get started. I agree a hundred percent. Josh, you did Atlanta or tag into Mexico. You didn’t need any points to do that. Yeah.

00:15:15:20 –> 00:16:17:18
You know, you didn’t even have to apply. No. Like you just did it. Right. And it, and it’s not like, I mean, you did a very affordable one. Yeah. So to speak. Right. And, and it wasn’t that much, you know, for a, for a good tag or there’s a few of these states, Nevada, Colorado, they’re running a turnback list. First come, first serve. You could spend some time on that and snag one off of there and get a good tag. Devin, why don’t you talk, why don’t you tell us about that? I mean, you didn’t had no, basically no. Didn’t matter how many points you had. And you got world class hunting opportunities on a turnback. Yeah, three of ’em. Three times. Okay. Effect. Okay. Some of us hate you, but go ahead. Well, that, yeah, I would definitely, I mean, if you have the time, absolutely. Try that. I mean, if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t, didn’t require any points. You’re not gonna anything to zero. But it didn’t, but those points didn’t help you get a turn back down. No. And, and you’d already tried to draw ’em and like in the case of elk in Nevada, like you could try for their whole life and not draw a tag. Yeah. For the tag I had, I probably, I never would had more than what, a 2% chance maybe. Yeah, a little less. Yeah. But yeah, anyway, I think that, well, go ahead.

00:16:17:21 –> 00:17:26:18
This is a perfect example of a question that illustrates how a membership can help you. If you’re this guy and you have this question, you call in and you talk to one of us, you get a specific answer for you. And we’ll go through the states and decide, okay, what’s your short-term? Medium and long-term draw strategies. You, you list out all the once in a lifetime species that you want. Okay? You start applying for those, you’re not gonna draw those for 20 years. Then your medium ones, you know, what’s, what’s gonna take you 10 to 15 years to draw? And you start applying for those, okay, you want to go in the next couple years, we will help you, you know, get a plan for this next couple years. Well, you’re gonna go over the counter, might not be world class hunt. You’re gonna come, you’re gonna start. Then three years down the line, you’re gonna start drawing some of those medium tags and, and you’re on your way. I think that’s where the license application service could help a guy too. And I’m not even pushing that literally could care less if this guy applies on his own more power to him. I’m happy to help him do that. But I’m just saying a lot of guys will start with the license, app service and kind of get their feet wet and then take it off, take do it themselves after two or three years.

00:17:26:27 –> 00:18:34:28
That’s fine. No big deal. It’s not, you’re not married to us more than a year. You know, so, and even one point can open, I tell people every day, every point you get, every state, it opens more doors. One point in Wyoming for antelope, it opens a lot of doors. Yeah, it does. Yeah. This conversation, you, you’re gonna get your a hundred dollars worth in the first 15 minutes you’re talking to one of us. Yeah, yeah. Just to get your baseline started, you know, of what’s important to you. What’s your rotational, what’s your short term TA plans in the next one to three years and long, mid and long as well. So I agree. And let’s say he says he is in his early forties, let’s say you just kind of ignore it. ’cause it’s frustrating. You don’t understand. It’d be like me going to Ohio or whatever Illinois, where he’s from. I, I don’t know the first thing about it out there. I mean, you know, I’d have to Google it. I’d have to learn how to spell Illinois first just to get to the DNR website. And I’m just saying like, it’s, it’s, it is intimidating. It’s intimidating. Totally understand that. But that’s what we’re here for. Happy to help you. Easy to do. Not a big deal. That’s, we’d even visit with you not being a member, you know, for 16 minutes. We move into the 17th minute, we’re gonna be charging somebody.

00:18:35:12 –> 00:19:35:13
All right. Well, Bronson, we on to the next one. Yeah. All right. I got that one. Chris, I think this one came in just recently. You got it in red pen. Yeah. Yeah. I, I wrote that one down. All right. What is your trail camera scouting process for locating a target buck? How often do you check cameras? Do you spend any time during the day glassing and looking for the buck? Thank you and love the podcast. Bronson. Depends on the area. I would definitely say there’s some places like, you know, arid areas of southern Utah or Nevada where deer can be very dependent on some of the hot, hot summer months on some of the water sources. And you don’t get any monsoons yet. And you can get a pretty good inventory of, okay, there’s a buck here that he may be hitting at night a hundred percent of the time. But yeah, that then focuses where you need to start spending time to see him alive on the hoof and trying to get an idea of, you know, all right, he’s drinking every two or three days. Where does he spend the other time? You know, you gotta start broadening that.

00:19:35:13 –> 00:20:47:00
But then there’s other places in the mountains, Carter, like, you know, whether it be for elk or deer or something like that, that you’re sitting them on trails, crossings, little saddles, you know, maybe a, maybe a wallow that they wander by but really doesn’t start getting used till the rudd or things like that. That more random encounters that just like, wow, there’s a, there’s a buffer bull living here that, you know, if it’s a bull, you’re gonna start getting closer to September. And if you had an early rifle on, or muzzle hunt late September that, that bull that walked by your camera for early August and velvet, you know, may tells you he’s there he is somewhere, but man, he may be 10 miles away during the rutt. So it kind of depends on the individual species, but in this case, target buck. I think it also depends on the train you’re hunting. If you’re mountain in high country, I, I end up finding probably more of the deer that I end up hunting glassing than I do in the desert. In the desert. I, I use cameras to narrow my search because it seems like you can glass your eyeballs. We all tell they bleed. You can bla blasto your eyeballs bleed in the desert. Geez. Sometimes Sounds terrible. Well, tell me I I’m wrong. Eyeballs are bleeding. Well, I felt that way before. It’s a figurative speech. It’s true though. Figurative speech.

00:20:47:04 –> 00:21:50:29
But like, if you can at least narrow down. ’cause everything in some of these areas is deer habitat. In some of the more semi era drier, southern Utah, Nevada, it’s like everything’s a possibility and you can’t, don’t have time to glass at all. ’cause you got an hour in the morning before it starts hitting 90 and then they don’t move till half hour night. It gets very tight windows. So that definitely helps. And like you said, a lot of times this glassing is better and there’s a lot of guys that’ll, you know, but, but there are guys that are running trail cameras up high. Oh yeah. And, and I’m like, what are they, how are they getting these bucks up high? Like it’s illegal to run on salt. It’s illegal to, you know what I mean? Ba ’em just so to speak. So enough. How are they getting ’em? Just enough random places They’re good or enough repeated places that, you know, where deer cross from feeding to bedding that if I have a camera there for a month and a half, two months, I’m gonna get an idea. A buck is gonna walk by there in that amount of time. But I find you gotta do, the more groundwork you can do, the better off you’ll be. Like just knowing tracks and feeding and the, just the more groundwork you can do. You’re putting cameras in key locations.

00:21:50:29 –> 00:22:46:21
You’re not just saying, well I’m just gonna go out in Timbuktu and hopefully run a camera and see what I get. Sometimes I do that, sometimes I do that. But, but a lot of times it’s like, no, I know this area has obviously a lot of tracks. It’s got great feet, it’s known for it, it’s, there’s too much water to whatever. There’s a little history. Yeah, there’s it. There’s too much water to put just on the water. So I’ve gotta find some other like areas, little saddles, ridge line crossings, things like that. But then once you know, then once you get a picture then sometimes it works. Starts sometimes you don’t And freaking off. Yeah. Sometimes it’s hard to see him with your own two eyes. Now we’re running 15 cameras to figure out what he’s doing on top of glass. And do we glass in the day? Yeah, we glass in the morning, in the evening. I love cameras for the middle of the day. I love doing that. Yeah, that’s what you do in the middle of the day. Check SD cards. The frequency there probably depends. Middle of the day you’re not harming a whole lot unless you got a camera in a bedding area or something like that. I know a lot of white tow hunters very sensitive about checking cameras, especially pulling SD cards in white towed area.

00:22:46:21 –> 00:23:46:07
And I don’t think that we’re probably talking about that a mul deer as much unless you’ve got ’em only in a bedding area because it just middle of the day not gonna hurt anything. It doesn’t hurt as much. It doesn’t feel like the chances of blowing your book out unless you’re really in his bedroom are are slim. But I like checking him once a week. But I’m going once every two weeks. Once every two weeks for sure. And then adjusting settings and stuff, depending on if cows are pounding it or whatever. I’m 10,000 tipped over with horses or whatever. Yeah. Yep. So the more you put into the truck cameras, the more scouting for truck cameras, where to put ’em. And the more you check them and the more you tend them and take care of ’em and all of those kind of things, the more you’re gonna get out of it too. It’s gonna help your scouting. If you just check ’em once every three months, you’re ready to go start hunting it got tipped over, found out two months ago. Forgot you had it on only 12 hour mode during the day and not at night. Yeah. A battery popped out, one of the batteries popped. Covered out. Covered in mud. Oh yeah. You get bulls, walling, thrashing with mud. You get a clean off. Somebody painted the lens. Okay.

00:23:46:17 –> 00:24:47:22
I don’t know, but if you could get on top of that, you’d have a chance to get something. Anyway. Josh, you kind of came to mind. You’re running cameras right now? Yeah. Yeah. Just because one picture a day. That’s right. And why just, well I guess it’s a test to see how long they work. It’s a new camera, a new solar panel and stuff during the winter months too. Yeah. How’s that solar panel? It’s going good. And you’ve got one near it That’s not solar panel. Yeah, it’s already dead. How’s that one working? It’s already dead. It’s gone. Really? How, how long have they been out? I’d switched it just before, back in September I think. And that one made it till the first cold snap and it was done for, I even had lithium batteries in it. And really usually they last longer. That was both are cell cameras. Yeah, same exact wide energizers. Yeah, they had, yeah they were those silver lithium over there. Yeah. So they lasted two, two and a half months, whatever in this one. And it was getting quite a bit. It was, you know, a lot of box bowls were, it was kind of on a wallow. So the bowls were elk were hitting at a ton. But Santa, I’ve given you some more so, or some more solar options. Yeah. Maybe in your stocking maybe.

00:24:49:01 –> 00:25:53:24
But it’s, and now I wish I had a few more because after you use them, you realize how nice they are. You can go put ’em in a spot and have to worry about going back to ’em for now. But no, it’s nice. I’ve always used cameras as oftentimes once I glass something I’ll try and get him on camera. I’ve just, I’ve done that before or you know, I go out and glass when I can and use cameras in the spots where, so you can see what’s there at night or during the day or the times when you’re not g glassing something else is working for you. Just as an additional tool. It always, it always works. Plus it’s just fun to check ’em. And it’s addicting. It is. Gets you out in the fields. Yeah, it’s a great, it’s a great tool to use. Devin. You gotta, you’re not gonna get off without talking. You run cameras. I run cameras. It depends on the purpose for me, like the first of the year, sometimes I’ll blanket stuff to locate a buck or if I have a specific buck. It’s very specific. Blitz. Yeah, blitz. Yeah. I used still so blanket stuff I’ve used. You’re covering a whole unit trying to to find a buck. Yeah. Or or yeah. Just a general area splattering. Exactly.

00:25:54:01 –> 00:27:04:13
But I’ve actually used them for migration stuff too, to know when they start showing up, should I not high or the mature deer gone or are they low? Are they high? And yeah, you’ve got the stuff that’s like closer to home. You can go feasibly, you know, every other week or whatever. What about something that’s farther away, let’s say, you know, high country Colorado for us where, you know, you’re an eight to 10 hour drive. Well John, you tell us you went to New Mexico and ran cameras. Yes I did. But how did you do? So what I did was I went out early, put up the cameras and then went early to the hunt. Checked them all after three months. After three months. And, and I found bulls and it, it was great. Yeah. Nothing was ripped off. Nothing was ripped off. But I had bare boxes on all of ’em. Everybody else I talked to that said all of them get, you know, ripped off. Off. Well there were tons of cameras that they didn’t even have locks. They had the straps. Locks just bare bones camera. Yeah. So anyway, they aren’t from Utah. Yeah, because if you’re from Utah, you’ve learned by sad experience that that doesn’t work for long. You don’t end up having a, a bunch of cameras doing that like John did far away. It sets it sets up your expectation. You know what qualities there now. Yeah.

00:27:04:19 –> 00:28:03:18
You know, if you see a bull in passing and then you realize that’s the biggest one you had on all summer, you made a mistake better. Shoot. So it worked John, I saw you posted up a bull that you didn’t kill somebody else Killed. Yeah. Killed. So he’s writing a story and you’re gonna throw it in the story. Yeah. Picture, picture 1400 years ago. That was fun. I love it. No, and I’m wondering like let’s say Colorado and let’s say you can only use cameras while you’re there. How would you do it? You know, how would you, would you do it? Well, certain hunts, you can do it every day. Certain cameras like that, you have to do it every day. If you got a seven day hunt and you gotta, you’re deer on the water or whatever, you gotta check ’em every day in the middle of the day. Or it’s like, why even put ’em out in a seven day hunt? I’ve, at night I’ve done it and it works. You know, there’s, there’s, I just think it’s like what you said bro. It’s a number. It’s a numbers game. How can I see more deer? Well I can glass ’em and then I can run my cameras and I can get more deer. And the more deer I see in general, the better chances are of finding a big deer. Yeah. You know what I mean? Another way.

00:28:03:19 –> 00:29:12:16
Another way to be two places at the same time or five places or 10 or 15. Yeah. Yeah. So I like it. Okay. I like it. Well are we good Chris? Chris is quiet. Chris runs cameras and nobody even knows about it. Sometimes. Not even me ’cause I forget they’re up. I do that too. You, yeah, you go back the next year and have, and have lunch on that little rock that I had last year. Oh yeah. Well there’s my camera from last year. Do you have cameras in Nevada? You don’t remember Chris? Not Nevada. That’s a problem. Probably ought to be pulling ’em down. Nope. No, no I don’t, I don’t run cameras in Nevada ’cause I only have a tag there like every 12 years. So no reason to do that. Alright. I did just think if they change the laws in Utah, it’s gonna be days and days that I gotta go pull cameras outta places. Josh, do you wanna chime in? What do they, what are they proposing in Utah? Might as well while we’re on the subject. Yeah, so they’re, right now the divisional wildlife just recommended basically your cell cellular cameras and stuff. I think it’s the season would be, you couldn’t use ’em for hunting, scouting, those kind of purposes from July 31st to January 31st. So kind of basically covers, but if I wanna see squirrel movement, I could put one up. Yeah, yeah.

00:29:12:16 –> 00:30:19:19
You don’t, you don’t use it there. I don’t see anything else on it. But I mean, you know, if you don’t use it, you get, you got a filter in your email that says only send me an email picture if it’s, unless it’s a 200 pound animal. I just wanna know if squirrels migrate. I put ’em on this deer trail and see if my squirrel migrates. Okey dokey. Alright, keep going. No, I, that’ll be interesting to see a couple of the, the racks, there’s a process, basically the public process that the, these laws and rules go through. It’s a rack. Regional regional advisory Council. Council. Okay. Keep going. And then it goes to a wildlife board which basically adopts and makes and for the, the laws of the state for wildlife. So that, that meeting, I think it’s January 4th, it’ll be a meeting you can go to if you want to have input or listen or whatever It’s see online there. And, and they’re gonna be talking about that. A couple of the racks did talk about going to all cameras similar to banning Nevada. Yeah. Ban banning ’em and a ban on all trail cameras after July. The division just recommended wireless, you know, your cell cameras. So it’d be interesting to see what the board does. We’ll have to listen to it. Robinson, I want to hear your opinion on the banning of all cameras.

00:30:21:06 –> 00:31:23:29
Well, I, I mean we have, we’ve had to deal with that in Nevada, right? We have And it’s, it, it’s okay. I mean is there certain instances that probably, I mean, we’ll use the word saves animals, I guess. I mean, I don’t know what to say. Maybe less pressure. Yeah, less pressure. Especially during the hunts. Yeah, I think so. Potentially on areas like the Arizona Strip, there’s certain places that I think have a lot more pressure on trail camera dependent type resources. Water being key. There’s other places that what, you know, deer, elk what in, in mountainous situations that it’s a lot more random occurrence, you know, you know, whether it be feeding, bedding, metal, metals, whatever like that. So, I mean, if I was the king of Utah, I would say yeah, whatever. I mean we, we are very good here about hunting with whatever weapon we have 14,000 different weapons. It feels like one in every state to be able to use when we have to use that weapon. And we’ll adapt and do that. We’re, we’re not, we realize think states are different. I back to no scopes on muzz or Yeah. I mean there’s another one there. So we’ll do whatever gets passed. We’re not gonna be, and a percussion cap fight.

00:31:24:01 –> 00:32:21:01
But I mean I, I think that if, if, if you wanna say, hey the, the real time transmitting cameras feels like it violates some of the, you know, aspects of fair chase of whatever the arguments are. Alright. Found that, I mean there are certain times that I, it’s nice to have cameras up throughout the fall and have to pull ’em all down before July 31st. But I mean if they, if they ended up especially like John’s hike. Yeah, it’s nice. There’s some bad places. There’s some places that I lead up, leave up in cameras still up there that I, there’s some places that I leave cameras up for sheep 365 days a year and I don’t go back to ’em till the next year. And they sit there dead with for three or four months with no battery life. I think there’s one or two out there for years. One that I remembered. Yeah. That you recall. I think about it every year and I’m like, no, I’m not going back for that ever. That’s a Bushnell camera. It’s worth about nothing right now. Yeah. So, and the sun has baked that lens. It would be fun, it would be funny to see what it looked like, you know, but if it melted, it actually melted in the sun. Probably did it probably did. But pretty sure.

00:32:21:04 –> 00:33:20:22
Anyway, so I, I mean, yeah, I guess I, I don’t like to see it go away completely in the state of Utah. All your all hunting season long. But I mean if that’s the way it passes, I’m not gonna kick and stream and fight and go hold signs at the Utah State Capitol and pick it and all that and say, you know, trail cameras matter or whatever. I’m not trail cam lives matter. Yeah. I’m not gonna do that. I think I’m kind of mixed. I, I like Nevada’s rule, but I do think they’re a little more water dependent than say Utah. Yeah, that’s what I think as a general rule. So like for our state, that’s what I think is a classic example of what’s good for Nevada. May not be good for Utah, may not matter as much in Utah. I don’t think we’re as relying on ’em. There are people that are relying on ’em and I sure just love it. The cellular camps. Josh, you’re running them like you haven’t killed anything from it. I don’t think it’s hurt. No, that’s, I mean that’s, I don’t think it’s hurt anything, but you still have to physically be there to shoot it, you know. Yeah. And so it takes, but it does. But you could see where it could make a difference. Oh yeah. If you were very diligent Yep.

00:33:20:26 –> 00:34:21:10
In keeping ’em up to go up to speed and, and you had ’em strategically located in good cellular service areas and specific bucks. I could see how somebody would, could, could abuse it. Oh yeah. Having said that, I don’t even know anybody abuses it. Oh. You know what I mean? No. And, and I guess last year they got rid of baiting in Utah and I think, but we knew people that abused that. Well my point is with that, I think the greater impact to some of these deer specifically was that trail cameras let you, you know, if you just have a trail camera running and you can’t have it on bait, you can’t, you know, you can’t have a transmitting camera after July 31st. It, it’s back to the way it was forever. You know, before maybe it’s okay. Is what you’re saying. Yeah. It, it feels like that’s always been the case except for now we got transmitting cameras and baiting the last 10 years heavy in Utah. Yeah. That’s when it feels like things really felt like maybe crossed the line and we really started impacting some of our deer in places that were not otherwise. Maybe huntable or killable, especially in archery season. And we’re all complaining that there’s no deer. Yeah.

00:34:21:10 –> 00:35:19:16
And so then at some point you gotta fix something and then give up a little bit and then you fix one thing or two things and then everybody’s complaining that you didn’t fix. Well what about the long range rifles? Yeah. What about the range winders, range bow hunters? What about the muser hunts? What about all this? And so you’re like, okay, you’re, yeah, maybe you’re right. Maybe we need to fix everything and just cut it all off. Yeah. But, but I think what you’re saying is at some point we, we fix the ba you know, there’s no, there’s no baiting And as you back off of a few things, you don’t have to bla backslide to everything. Yeah. There’s gonna be some positive change just of what, what’s what’s happened so far. Yeah. Yep. Just with what’s happened so far. That’s right. Yeah. But you see it, you know when good moisture years, you go back to even 15, 16, 17, I can’t remember when did they start doing scopes on muzzle loaders out there? 13. Somewhere around there. 14. Anyway, a lot of people were all about it, but deer numbers honestly were good. Different than now. We had good wet numbers and everything was good. Everybody was all about it. You get these dry years now, nobody’s really complaining about scopes and muzzle debate or trail cameras, anything like that. Right.

00:35:19:16 –> 00:36:24:10
And then you get three or four years of drought like we’ve had and then the deer numbers really start to suffer. And then it’s like, okay, now it’s not just habitat projects or water, things like that. Maybe something as hunters we need to try and curtail something we’re doing to maybe try and help that, you know, whether it will or not, I dunno seems like a lot of harvest statistics and data that it’s always just the same no matter what, you know? But you never know. So I don’t, I, I’m personally probably not a fan. Like for Utah. I’m personally probably not a fan of deli, of eliminating all cameras at any point in the year. But I don’t know necessarily why I’m a big advocate of the deer. I love to see, I wanna see more 2 50, 2 60 bucks live. You know? So, but but, but having said that, if they, if they do away with it, I’m cool with that too. Yeah. Not, not the, of the world. Well that that’s the way it is. We’ll move on. We’ll hunt that way just like we have to in other states. But Nevada, I do think I do. I, oh, there’s no question It’s safe to stop. I mean, I pressure deer more when we round ’em year round. Like I, I would go check those cameras during the season, middle of the day. What else you doing? You’re gonna check cameras.

00:36:24:21 –> 00:37:32:03
And then it gives you the confidence to keep pounding an area. ’cause he came in, he watered at night. How far can he walk from 5:00 AM till 7:00 AM How far can he walk, keep working guys like he’s here. Come on. You know? And that’s what everybody’s doing. And so there was an a, a inordinate amount of pressure due to cameras I felt like. But having said that, again, their state will abide by the rules, whatever they may be. Devin, I know you want to talk. Jump in boss. I think you guys covered it. You agree? Amen. Amen. Can I get an amen? All right. Bronson, I think you had No, let’s lighten it up a little. I think you had a question possibly sent in by a listener for Chris. Are we there yet? I was gonna save that for a minute. Oh, were you gonna save it? I’ll save it Chris. I’ll save it. You have a question? What? That you were gonna read that just barely came in. I thought you just read that one that possibly Josh was gonna Yeah. Address. I’ve, I’ve actually got two questions and this one, this one goes, there’s actually this next question I was gonna read. Keep in mind I haven’t even read it dovetailed into the one you’re gonna read. So I’m gonna read this one. Okay. And then we’re gonna read that one. I think they’re in some ways very similar.

00:37:32:14 –> 00:38:34:16
I’m just, I’m just guessing. So we barely heard these questions like, oh yeah, 20 minutes ago. These aren’t anything we’ve studied on and gone back to Val Geist books or anything like that and got stuff. Is, is he alive? Is he alive? I think he passed away this last what? While. But I don’t know. I I don’t wanna even say that, but I get, I don’t were they, they’re very similar specifically questions for me. I mean because two, no, it’s just in general. I’m happily married and yes, my mustache is real. I’m guessing you’re in with your own mustache. You’re disgusting. Is there any other questions? Holy cow. Do you, do you use the Bear’s beard? Do you wax or not? Do you wax or not? Jeff? Jeff Mustache. Jeff. Tell, tell us. It’s Josh. A regular client. Jeff Baird, please. Let’s get him on the phone. I use that stuff all the time. What you gotta do? You not bore to shine. Yeah, you gotta shave. You got a groomed one. I don’t wanna talk about it. Did it? Does it work? Does the, oh yeah. What don’t you wanna talk about? I just wish you had, it’s a beard, man. It, it’s cold out there and I go outside in the morning and my face is cold. So good. You give yourself nine days and you’re done. If I could have a big beard all the time, I would. Why?

00:38:34:16 –> 00:39:45:11
Don’t, does your wife not a big fan? No. She prefers. Yeah. You doing? Why did you shave? Just you gotta give the skin a break. Know. You gotta see the lot of day sometimes. I gotcha. Why guy guys in Alaska are still alive. It was going good. You looked like you had a badger attached here. Jowls. You look like a real badger. No, Josh was just jealous. He’s got a mustache. You had a real beard. It takes, why don’t you grow a beard, Josh? I don’t know what I have to change it up. Well, yeah. ’cause she hates, she hates my mustache. So she hates does she? Oh yeah. And so that’s why you, so you make it Sure you’re growing it longer. Wow. And he’s a jerk. And I’m trying to inspire other men. ’cause you know how many times people say, oh, my wife doesn’t let me, my wife doesn’t let me grow that. Well, neither does mine. But guess what? I have one. Stand up for yourself. Yeah. Be a man. Be a man. Exactly. Good job. Good for you. How’s your marriage? Doesn’t get me anyway. Let’s give her a call. Let’s talk about the stash. Anyway, what was that question, Chris? Okay, I’m gonna read this one. Chris will read his, I think they’re somewhat similar. So this first question from Jordan says, when I find a mature meal during my summer scouting, I have a hard time finding them.

00:39:45:11 –> 00:40:57:11
The next year, the young bucks seem to stick around and almost fall the same pattern next year, but not the older ones. What can I do to different to turn up the older bucks year in and year out? Not perfectly lined up with what Chris said, Chris has maybe to do with younger bucks and how they show up. We’re talking about Bucks showing back up on summer ranges year after year. Read yours real quick and we’ll get into maybe some of both these questions. Okay. They say this one might be out a little out in the weeds, but with a radial color info, we know where the fawns are dropped, et cetera. And the dough yearly cycle. I’d be curious what you guys thoughts are on how the 2-year-old bucks end up in their summer range with their new bachelor group. In our area, the Bucks and dos don’t really summer in the same area, but each year, new young bucks show up in the bachelor groups. So yeah, I ah, it, it happens. I mean, there are places that I never in the summer see do. And I always see Young Bucks show up two or three year olds, and I’m like, now the desert, how did they find this Bucks? They didn’t get born here and their mama brought ’em back. But it, but there are some, you know, examples of bucks bleeding other BI mean, they’re bachelor groups, right?

00:40:57:11 –> 00:42:02:17
Well, at some point Deere’s a deer’s makeup. Habitual. Yeah. Habit. They’re like, I don’t, I’m not following mom anymore. I’m my own man. I, I’m, I’m my own. I get to be with the boys. Yep. That mentality. I think there’s places in Nevada down low, there’s it’s bucks, man, nonstop bucks. But then up high you got the, what I call the nursery. You know, and what I think he’s saying is he saying, Hey, how does it, the first year he’s with mama, but then the next year, where’s he gonna be? How does he know where to go and how does he know where to go? Saw, oh, Josh, you’ve done some telemetry stuff. We saw this, we had a, a cow elk or it was supposed to be a cow elk that was caught when we were doing a, an elk study over on Mountain Dutton. The capture crew caught, caught what they thought was a cow elk apparently didn’t lift, lift the tail. So when we were, we were back doing a, a survey the following year, and there was a spike bull that had a collar. I was like, that’s clearly not a cow and we probably need to get the collar off of it because he’s gonna grow. That’s gonna swell. Yeah. Whatever. He’s not. That was made for a cow, not a bull. But anyway, when he was a calf, we had the, the data that was with it.

00:42:02:17 –> 00:43:06:03
He stayed with his mom the entire year when he was a spike. He basically stayed with his mom the entire year. So from the time he was a calf to a yearling, he stayed with his mom. And then the third year, when he became a 2-year-old, like, like they’re saying, he actually switched and completely moved his whole, whole pattern, migration pattern. Anding didn’t even before he was going clear to the Monroe Mountain and then back to the Dutton. And then when he became two years old, he switched and moved over to the boulder in the spring time. Wow. Which, that’s what those bulls will do. And I think a lot of it has to do with there’s, and there’s been studies done. You can look ’em up and see. A lot of it just has to do with metabolism of these animals. If you consider the metabolism of a bull elk and metabolism of a cow elk, the different times of the year, obviously during the rutt, they’re all gonna be together. But the bull has different needs than the cow and vice versa. The fawn, fawn dough, buck, all of those, they all have different metabolism needs. And then a lot of it also comes back to their survival. So if you have a bull elk that’s out there feeding, he needs so many calories a day to survive compared to this, to this cow.

00:43:06:06 –> 00:44:08:00
And she may need more if she’s, depends on if she’s got a calf or not. So sometimes you’ll see dry cows together. I’ve seen it before, and they don’t have calves. Or you’ll sometimes see a lone cow with a group of bulls. Well, their needs are different. So you’re not having a group of elk. You’ll see a lot of times they all get up, they feed, they bed together. Same with the bachelor groups of bucks or whatever. They get up, they feed, they bed together. And if you have, here’s a buck that he’s been up here feeding and he’s to feed 15 minutes longer than the dough. Well, he lays down and as he’s laying down, all of a sudden doughs are starting to f stand up. They just don’t, they don’t like that much mix all the time because it also impacts their ability to hide and things like that as well. So there was some studies done by by BYU and it talked a little bit about their metabolism structure. And that’s why I think you’ll see why all of a sudden a box starts to say, well, and I think it probably just naturally happens. I don’t think he all of a sudden decides to change and say, okay, I’m a man now I gotta go hang out with these guys. Yeah. But his hormones or his Yeah, metabolism needs are driving him to do different stuff.

00:44:08:00 –> 00:45:09:05
And so he’ll naturally, I think they just, and this is just my, I guess guess on it, but he’ll just start hanging out with those bucks more because his needs are more curtailed to what those older, more mature bucks do. So he ends up going off with bucks or other mature bulls than the group of cows and calfs feeding off. Sometimes you’ll see too, we see like two big deer running together. You know what I mean? They’re old thunder, like dead 9-year-old, old. I’ve named Bucks, thunder and lightning before. Okay. All right. I have, and so they’re running together and you just wonder, like, I’m wondering, you know, are they, they don’t want the three-year-old giving ’em away or Yep. You know, dealing with, that’s just, it shenanigans be two point that gets up on his feet 12 times a day to feed when you’re stupid, you know, making poor choices and for predation or whatever. Yeah. And it, and it gives ’em away and, and so I think that has a lot to do with why you see that. As far as the question. And I, and I think, yeah, that as far as the young deer together, I think that has a lot to do with it. As a deer matures, they start to, to know what it’s taken to keep them alive more. Yeah. A young deer that doesn’t figure that out dies. Yeah. Either by That’s right.

00:45:09:12 –> 00:46:15:01
A car by a lion, by a hunter, Utah, by a lot of different things. Utah guy. Yep. Yeah. And, and you also, I don’t know what this specific question Jordan had. Why don’t I see the bigger deer? You gotta just realize that deer that didn’t, you don’t think he got killed in October. Well, now you gotta go. As they get older, the riggers of just the ruts start to put such a much bigger tax on some of these bucks and what they do to migrate and rutt and then just survive the winter and cross highways all winter long or whatever. Like you’re saying, their needs change just because they don’t die from a hunter in October. The older they get, they’re, they’re getting on borrowed time with the amount of pressures that are placed, placed upon them as an older mature deer. Now, I know there’s certain cases where you’ve got big deer that they don’t rut, but we’re talking about the greater population of mature deer that become more aggressive, move a lot more rutt, hard fight, doing all those things. Prime of life. Yeah. They’re just, they’re, that’s the reason why humans as well as animals, the male of the species have a, have a lower life expectancy and they’re just a lot more placed upon ’em. So anyway, those are, are some thoughts. I like it. Yeah. I like it.

00:46:15:06 –> 00:47:20:03
I wonder too, if in a transition between summer or any, you know, when they migrate, if they will follow older deer to learn, they learn Well, and I think that that’s probably, they, in the winter, they hang, hang out with older bucks and then when they transition, they go to a different summer. ’cause they followed those bucks. Yeah, no, I think so. I think that that’s, that can happen. It’s that switch in their brain as they’re growing physically, these younger bucks into more of a mature deer, they start gravitating to those, you know, either areas to forage or whatever, based on what their, you know, dietary, you know, just like us, when we’re craving something, you, you want something hard. A deer goes the same way. And I think the bucks align themselves coming outta the rut, coming outta the winter as they’re maturing. Their physiological needs are more in line with, and so they kind of gravitate to the same feeds, same elevational plane and all that. Like Josh was saying, I think just like humans too, I mean we got a lot of your people, you know, their friends are the same age, got doing the same thing, whatever, raising kids or retired or whatever, you know. And so people just align with similar, what, what we’re doing together. I was up in Wyoming. When did you start regressing? When do we start regressing? Like when do we start going the other way?

00:47:20:03 –> 00:48:23:10
We’re, we’re definitely, bro, you and I hang out together ’cause nobody else wants to thunder lightning right now. Nobody else wants to deal with this. And we’ve got, right now we’re a lone buck under ledge prone for lying kill. I’m good with that. Kill me. Finish me off. I’m getting, I’m getting prone to that. But, so, but I’m in Wyoming hunting deer and there was seven forks running together and not one of ’em was a three point. And I’m just like, what? How does this happen? It’s the same thing. They feel comfortable around each other. They just feel comfortable, you know? Yeah. Then once in a while you find a giant with a doll. You see, I don’t know why he’s not even rutting. You know what I mean? You see that with spike out during the rutt lut and I think it’s, they’re so scared. Crapless to get net, you find one spike, you find three or four. There’s three, four or four sometimes a lot. They’re just like, let’s just band together. And four is four we, four of us could beat one big four. That’s right. Strength in numbers. So anyway, strength in numbers. I’ve got another theory after my Colorado hunt this year, uhoh. It’s that they’re just tired of their mamas kicking the crap out of ’em. Yeah. Did you watch that? I was sitting, sitting over a water and it was brutal.

00:48:24:01 –> 00:49:32:11
Just like every, every, you know, dough and, and fawns that came up. I mean, she was teaching them a lesson. If they went to the water too quick, she came and just kicked the crap out of them. And I’m like, this is like child abuse, abuse, you know? Turn her in as soon as they’re old enough environment. We’ll smoke smoker. They’re like, get get, get away from mom. She’s Bebe All. Alright, we might have addressed this one next question. I don’t know, but I don’t know that we did. Out of all you guys, who would you say has the most patience on a hunt? And why did we talk about that one? We didn’t talk about it. I think we read it, but I don’t think we answered it. So I don’t know. Devin. I haven’t hunted a lot with Devin and Josh. He feels like a patient person. Know he does, but he feels like a patient person then. I was disappointed he left early in Colorado. It was, I was like, until that happened. Definitely. But he had, he’d had 14 days just prior to that being patient in, in Nevada. And he’s a new by myself and he’s a newlywed and he’s been on the road for about three or four months. Solid. Yep. So we’ll cut him a little slack. But I thought Devin maybe, but a Devin or Josh, I, I’ll say I’m not, I’m the least patient.

00:49:32:20 –> 00:50:39:17
I’m not, I’m not gonna win that contest. Well that would patient as he’s saying as far as pulling the trigger or just, just who can, who has the most patience? ’cause sometimes I like to kill something. Yeah. I, I’m, you know what I mean, laid some stuff down this year. Yeah. I laid a couple things down. Chris. Chris seems pretty mellow. Yeah. Chris is patient. I don’t, I don’t hunt with Chris a lot either, but he feels like probably he’s the least, what’s the word? Eccentric. Like he doesn’t get wound up too much and, and frustrated and vent. I don’t, I just don’t think it’s out loud. But Mc, maybe Mackenzie inside, maybe Mackenzie would tell us differently. I don’t know. Let’s get her on the phone. Get her and Josh’s wife on the phone. But he learn some. Chris seems really mellow. Like I, but maybe tell me, am I wrong Chris? Do you view yourself as a patient hunter? Because I, I think you’re a pretty patient person around the office. I I think you’re pretty meow. I sometimes I get frustrated when it’s 10 days in and you’re like, I’ve hiked 3000 miles and haven days. Okay. 10 days. You’ve answered my question lot. You can 10, 10 straight days. You’re the winner. Yes, you’re the winner. Wyatt w can, or excuse me, Devin can do it too. Yeah. Why?

00:50:39:17 –> 00:51:51:27
It’s not, I’ve had to work on that too as I got older some, you know what I mean? I think we all do. Yeah. When, when you’re, you set your standard, do something and you’re gonna stick with it or go home. Yeah. I think and it takes time when I brown bear hunted and you guys were oh eight blown away. I lasted 20 days. Yeah. This takes the cake really blown away when I stayed and extended, huh? Yeah, that no eight hour for 20 days. You can do something, anything once, gimme some credit. The gold medal, does that define you there? Does that define you as a patient person? Gimme some credit because you’ve never done it since. And move along. Move along And that’s a good point. Alright. Read the next one, Carter. Alright. If you had four points for Wyoming elk as a non-resident, would you do a general tag, controlled tag with 80% or more wilderness or hold out for a better controlled tag? Geez, four points is kind of getting close to no man’s land man. It’s getting close to big horn stuff. Well, no, about double the weight. I would say the, the prob, if you gonna quantify that with going on an outfitted hunt and you’re totally willing to do that. Absolutely. Go on a general season hunt before points if you’re going outfitted. Yeah, I agree with that. There’s nothing better.

00:51:52:10 –> 00:53:02:00
That’s the most undervalued elk tag in the west, perhaps with, with the options of general. I mean we’ve got 360 and 80 bulls coming from general units. That’s right. Not by the numbers but 300 plus all over the place. And I would say most of them are in the wilderness where you do help. Yeah. And I’ve had guys, I mean they, they’ve said it well, guys that live up there says points buy you into non grizzly areas. That’s what they do. And and less wilderness’s what points give you, they buy you. It doesn’t give you a big pole. No. And public land. More public land. More public with, with non wilderness public. That’s all you’re, that’s something that you can do on your own more. You need a lot more points. The high, high amount of public land, no grizzlies, no you know, 100, you know, 1 24, 33, 1, 1 24, all those types of units. But 45. But, but if you’re willing to hunt back country with either non wilderness, ’cause there’s places, look at reason GI mean there’s places you can go our tree elk hunt up there or even rifle elk cu non wilderness and there’s pretty good elk numbers. Yeah. And there’s decent elk numbers even down southern stuff that we hunted. Yeah. So I would say there’s nothing better than that. Really don’t, quality wise, four points. And after four then where do you get to you, you gotta get seven, eight, double the weight.

00:53:02:08 –> 00:54:06:25
Yeah. Before you, you gotta double that. Well, or you know, six-ish, seven-ish. You’re starting anyway. Yeah. Bigger. You have some, yeah, you’ve got some options in there. Yeah. So anyway, dude, do general, I wouldn’t be scared of it. I think, like I say points buy you out of hunting with grizzlies and, and wilderness. And I kind of read the next question ’cause I kind read talk about question through podcast. What do you re I’ve never even read these before. What do you recommend for Wyoming? Elk got a bunch of points. Hire outfit or DIY advice bunch. I wonder what a bunch means is Devin, you probably get a, a lot of those types of questions is, I think this is where one point opens up a lot of doors. Like there, it just depends on what a bunch means. Yeah. Are we talking nine, or let’s talking, let’s, let’s say they got 10 or 12. I mean max is 16 this year. Let’s say they got 10, 12 plus it goes back to whoever you just said that a minute ago. Points buy you self-guided public land opportunities. Exactly. So they do buy you that. Now there’s a few exceptions of that. You’re not gonna hunt 58 by yourself. No. With max points, you as a non-resident, you’re gonna have to hire an outfitter 59, late 56, late. You’re gonna need an outfitter in those backcountry units.

00:54:07:04 –> 00:55:12:07
But, but in general, and some guys go self-guided, but you’re not getting your, you’re not getting in. Well, and this, I talked to a guy, a member earlier today about this. He had Max and he was thinking about doing it on his own, but all the big chunks of public max is he might have an 8% chance. Yeah. Or he could have just a good hunt for qua same quality of bulls for, but he, if he went and guided. Yeah. And if you’re willing to deal with some private, like say unit seven, you could get in, but you’re gonna have to deal with some things. We’ve, we’ve hunted it. I mean you’ve gotta spot hunt it so to speak. This spot, that spot the other spot. Get through some access through private over here, whatever. If you’re gonna do it self-guided, you can totally do it. Self-guided. Totally do it. You’re just gonna be, it’s like Colorado deer. You’re gonna be working on Onyx quite a bit. You’re gonna do that if you do it DIY or you’re gonna draw a tag every 10 to 20 years. If you do, if you want top end bulls, we’ll just call it three forty, three fifty plus, you’re not gonna hunt a lot of DIY self-guided elk hunts in Colorado. Limited entry hunts because they take a lot of points to draw ’em. I’d say I like, I like the general option. I do.

00:55:12:12 –> 00:56:25:10
I I’ve seen three Forty’s bouncing you up too. And, and I’ve hunt non wilderness. I’ve hunted H country and just like, wow. Yeah, I’d take a tag here for elk. I’ve seen three 50 bulls, something I’ve seen, I’ve seen it. G and then even down in the southern stuff right there, two days before the hunt’s gonna start. I don’t know, I just think there’s a lot of, lot of good options there. These are good questions. And by the way, there’s not an exact perfect answer. Depends on if budget is, are you really strapped to spend 65 to $8,500 on an outfitter? That’s 95 or whatever. That’s a good chunk of money. There’s no question about it. But collectively for that price, for what you get in Wyoming, there’s some great outcomes when you compare it to No, compare it to Utah. Buy a conservation tag and hire a guide. Okay. You’re, you’re talking five times that much money for the same bull. Yeah. People, it’s not like it’s killing ’em a three 80 or three 90 bull. No it’s not. It’s not. We killed a few of ’em, but it’s not, it’s not like it once was. 2005, 2003, 2007, whatever. It’s not like it once was. All right. What do y’all tell customers about multi-state strategies? What state should I be building points for as well as how many points per state is a good starting point? Mostly for elk, but also deer. Somebody.

00:56:25:10 –> 00:57:32:28
Okay, so he is an elk hunter. He, you know, but maybe adds deer on the side. So I would definitely say start with the New Mexico. No brainer. No points. No points. Dave does. Everybody’s in the same hat. Definitely gonna start that one. My next question would be, all right, you like hunting elk? What, what, where on the trophy spectrum is your criteria? If you say, Hey, I’m, I’m fine hunt three, you know, two 90 to three 20 bulls. Okay. There’s a whole lot of states. If you say, Hey, I’m only interested in, you know, three 50 plus bulls, then I have to say, okay, you know, units like Nevada, Utah, Arizona that have them, are you willing to pay a couple hundred bucks a year in those states to apply, buy their license to apply it for relatively slim drawing odds for 3 50, 3 75 bucks if youre only doing elk, it’s hard. It’s maybe a little harder to justify. But then when you say, okay, well if you wanna add Deere for 15 bucks in those states, yeah, ’cause it’s easy, add it in Nevada, you know, add it in Utah, still tough. That same non-refundable hunting license helping you gain points for those, you get paying for the buck. That’s exactly right. So mostly for elk, you need to kind of dovetail or you’re an archery hunter. And what’s your trophy criteria?

00:57:32:28 –> 00:58:26:07
Because if you are realistic about that, you know, Wyoming as we just talked about, that’s kind of a no-brainer for elk. New Mexico’s a no-brainer for elk. I I would put, you know, the Utah, Nevada, Arizona in that no-brainer for elk. But also the fact, definitely add other species because if you’re gonna buy 150 or $60 hunting license in some of those states, add the sheep or add the antelope, add the deer to get more bang for the buck out it. Well, I think in this question he’s talking about right now, mostly for elk, but also deer in five years he could be like, huh, kind of fix the elk thing. Killed a few, yeah, killed five bulls. But now I’m mostly deer. Oh, I wish I’d have gained points for deer and for, and by the way, I do want kill a speed goat or truck chaser or whatever, you know what I mean? I’m, and so then you’re like, well I wish I’d have gained points in Nevada for antelope. And so you gotta really think, what do you really want? A A? What do you really want? And then B, what do I think I might want? Yep. And and, and you can’t buy time.

00:58:26:15 –> 00:59:32:18
You can, you can, you know, I mean it’s not buy the cheap five years from now if you didn’t get your deer antelope points or you just missed a state altogether because it wasn’t worth it for elk alone. And then things change and you’re now 45, 50, 55, whatever. Yeah. Makes it tougher to start. So a good starting point. No brainer. I, I think, I mean this is an investment, to me, hunting is an investment that’s expensive to do anyway. If you’re, if you love it, you’re just gonna have to sink some money into it. And it’s not the end of the world. It’s not really the non-refundable fees are gonna add up. But it’s honestly the points, if you add up what you do other in other aspects of your life, it’s not that much. That’s right. So I would add Montana onto that too. If you’re an archery elk hunter, the short interval, whether it be a general or whether you be a Eastern Montana archery hunt within say four to six years, that’s a short interval. No brainer. Montana for archery elk, rifle for elk, if you’re a general hunter, okay, Montana, but rifle limited controlled hunts are way different to draw than the archery. It’s tougher. But you know, Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, get started. Those, then you have to really ask yourself the questions, how invested much investment do I wanna make?

00:59:32:18 –> 01:00:37:23
If you’re gonna add Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and to me you start going, I’m doing the Mexico, which you know, yeah, we do it and, and you and I killed great bulls there. It’s a no-brainer, but not a point state. So Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Wyoming, I mean, no-brainer for me. Montana, no-brainer. I I think it’s a no-brainer for, but again, we look at it from our perspective and it’s worth it to me, it’s worth it to me to do it. Montana, Montana’s a two for you can do the general, keep your other points and go back a preference point. Do a bonus. Yeah. You could do general twice and get your Yeah. Limited stuff later. So cool. Cool. Yep. I think we co we covered it. Anybody else have anything to add? I think just something to say about going along back to getting a membership. If you go back to like our December issue, you know, John came have a really cool matrix that shows all the stuff you guys just answered and everything. All that information’s in there. So you can, if you wanna know what state you need to be doing and all that, it’s all in there. You can go through it state by state and, and you guys both put your strategies in there and very helpful. So to a guy to, to get to membership, those are the type of questions right there that get answered by having a membership. Yeah.

01:00:37:23 –> 01:01:41:05
You’re gonna spend a hundred dollars to get our membership. I guarantee you the cost savings of applying more wisely in adding a state or deleting a state is gonna add up to higher than that every year. Yeah, exactly. A hundred bucks is dirt, dude. So you can’t buy anything for a hundred bucks. I just fill your tank anyway, can’t it? Yeah, you can do that in Iowa, but not Utah still. So about what’s gas in Iowa? It’s like buck cheaper loaf two. Well, jug, didn’t you say they had a loaf and jug or a come go come and go. They got those there, did they? Yeah. Surprised. So that’s company. I don’t know how far going anywhere far east did they go? But they had ’em. But I mean, yeah, it was like 80 to 80, 80 to a do 80 cents to a dollar cheaper than Utah. I don’t, maybe it’s the ethanol they’re close to and all the corn. I have no idea. It was like free. Give me, give me that price of gas. But anyway, moving right along. We’ve kind of talked about this on the post Colorado and as the Colorado second, third, and fourth podcast went, but did the hot and dry weather save some bucks in the more migratory units in Colorado? Jason wants to ask and this is not Jason Carter. I’d not know though. Yes. Well what’s what’s, well, I mean I, I think Do you think it did?

01:01:41:05 –> 01:02:48:05
What’s your opinion? I think did it save bucks? Some of the units we su this is what happened in my, my opinion. You guys jump in. Tell me I’m wrong. Tell me you agree. I’ll say yes. I think, I think Bronson, I think there was bucks that hit the winter range like normal. I think there was bucks in the middle. I think there was bucks up high. If there would’ve been heavy snow, they’d all be jammed on the winter range. So we have a spread, they’re spread out from one end to the other. And that does not help things that it, it, it definitely helps. Deer helps save bucks, does not help kill buck, which I’m glad helps save deer. I’m glad about that. But having said all that, we’ve asked ourselves this and we asked it on another podcast. Did are they there? That’s the question. Are they there to save? Are they there to save? Wanna know? We know what the bucks are that got saved. We’ve been saying that for four or five years. Well, we just don’t know the true two current situ true current situation of these units. Well, maybe we do. I just can’t wait. There’s a real winner real winter. So we can see really what shows up up. Like, oh, there’s gonna be some giants now. Are they really there? Or do you gonna be like, wow, I’ve been waiting for this three, three more. 1 78 bucks.

01:02:48:17 –> 01:03:50:29
I mean, you know what I mean? There’s a 35 inches really there. Eight by eights triple lag guards with pipe mask. It’s a, I mean, I’m just wondering, it’s real question. It’s because I, I’m starting to wonder more myself about that. I think we’ve been dang good at hunting. And I think guys that when they’re spread out, Bronson, you and I have even gotten better at hunting, hunting since 2005. We’re better at it. And if they’re not on the winter range, I’m going middle, I’m going. If they’re not in the middle, I’m going high. And I’m, and I understand it more. We all understand it more. I think hunters as a whole have become better educated. The harder that deer have been able to find and kill, the smarter we’re getting and we’re thinking about it more year round and we’re learning from each other with social media and, and the confidence that, so-and-So, and we’re talking to each other. We have cell phones now. You know what I mean? Like, there was times when nobody was talking to each other. And so you just kind of, wherever you ended up, you ended up. And now we’re knowing, hey, so-and-so’s hunting this unit and they’re saying they’re seeing stuff at 10,000 feet. You gotta go higher or go, we went higher. Oh, boom. I smashed a 180 bucks. Cal. Thanks, thanks to the Instagram. But that saw last night. Yeah. A little something, right?

01:03:51:22 –> 01:05:02:28
I just wonder sometimes a tell us, email us. Are they, there are the bucks there. I’d like to know did it save some bucks? Yeah, it’s got it had to have saved some bucks. It it had to have, didn’t it? Yeah, but I just wonder what it saved. Did it save the four keys and three by twos and three by threes and 22 and a half inch, four by fours with a basal point. I and I think that probably happened. I think some of those were saved. And so it can’t hurt to have a dry, it can’t hurt the deer to have a dry season. But what’s there? Anybody else want to jump in? You’d have to drive over there and inject the winter range. I’m talking to people, but they’re probably lying to me. Yeah. Chris, you said it best. I want you to say what you told me that when you said, I remember what it once was and now I’m seeing what I’m now seeing. Why don’t you, yeah, it’s, I mean, if you go back 10 years, when when I first got into hunting Colorado, it was totally different. You had a, a different class of hunters out in the field When we were hiking, we saw no one. Okay, fast forward to this year. Doesn’t matter where you’re at on the unit, you can be in the most remote place. You’re seeing people everywhere.

01:05:03:13 –> 01:06:11:19
Guys are on post, on every ridge glassing. There’s more effort feels like going through it. People, people hunt different now than they did 10 years ago. Colorado for non-residents is way more popular than it used to be. It’s not the same ball game anymore. So yes, the game has changed completely. And what I’m, and what I think we ought to do is we ought to petition Boone and Crockett to lessen the scores. And so we all feel better about ourselves. Like 180 net it’s called, it makes the all time book. Huh? Get Wyatt on the phone. You get a, a two old, three and a half inch non-Typical net Big Deer should be in the book. What do you think? This reminds me of a song. Come on, come on. I don’t know, but Chris, tell me if I’m wrong. You’ve, you’ve, it, it resonated perfectly in my mind. I’m like, why haven’t we thought about this before? Toby Keith. Okay. Ain’t as good as Colorado. Ain’t as good as I once was, but I’m as good once you killed that buck right there, I’m as good once as I ever was. Yeah, yeah. Still might. So it can happen. Still might as well be there, but it ain’t as good as it once was. Right. And I messed up on a buck that Yeah. I would’ve killed in oh 5, 0 6, 0 7, 0 8, 0 9 10 11 12 13, 14 67. Geez. It’s a we’re old dude.

01:06:11:21 –> 01:07:22:05
When you rack, when you said you’d have shot that buck 10 straight years and now we’re in the hardest year of those years, 2021 and you didn’t shoot him, it begs the question why That’s, Adam would like to know that answer Q and a. This isn’t for you. You, I’m gonna have to have to think. Kill the deer for that. All the glory years of Colorado, we’re past them. You see that kind of deer now and you don’t, special deer is a breeder buck. I don’t want to Oh, I didn’t want for the greater good. I see. For the greater good. So they, for the, they’re out there. Hey, the answer is the breeder Buck two. There’s two. Let the breeder buck breed. I’m okay. I’m just saying, I’m just saying. I’m a, I think the hot dry weather saves some. I’m, I’m grateful. I I’m grateful for that. I, I think they need a break here and there on, but we’ve had hot dry weather for freaking five years on behalf of myself and dear hunters everywhere. Thank you Jason. But for letting a breeder buck clip come on. I mean it genuinely Did you kill kill that from my soul. Thank you. You might as well shot the two bites. Have fat genetics. No. Take him outta the gene pool. Okay, there. Here, let’s talk about this. You guys gon hot dry weather.

01:07:22:09 –> 01:08:20:25
We have a management hunt where you can kill three point on one side. Big freaking deer. How turned to a three point on one side. Tell me I’m wrong. A lot of deer. Yeah. This year. So much. So a lot that the game and fish was petitioned to shut down the management hunt. Shut the, because the, they fought to have the management hunt. Now they were fighting to get it shut down mid-season. Tell me I’m wrong because quote, normal non-management bucks turned into that this year with extreme drought, which is a fact. Which think teaches us us all a lesson in Bronson in oh five. I I would not, if you tell me a book typical turns to a three by four out, it said, ah, you’re full of crap. I think you are. No, you’re, but we’ve learned, we’ve seen collared bugs. We’ve seen it and and seen them every year and you know, you get them in your hands and you know what happens. I think we saw that in hunting in Mexico too on certain years. We would go and it was extreme drought and there were just everyone, these ugly junk buck two by four fours. You smashed one garbage, you smashed a trophy buck in a junk year and called him, took him outta the, I think he got it, called him a junk buck. I think it was. I think it was a freebie too.

01:08:21:04 –> 01:09:29:21
I mean it was a freebie. Yeah, it was a cold buck. But he Yeah, but he had eight inch freaking bases or something. Three. He had three basal points on each side that were, every one was eight to 10 inches long. It was disgusting. He should have been charged four. And he wasn’t a stag, right. He wasn’t a stack. No. This thing’s a breeder buck of all breeder bucks. You’re saving El chapple. El kingo. So I think you’re right Chris. I think you right. But then we came back the next year, it was a wet year and all of a sudden there’s giant bucks everywhere. And what’s funny is you can’t recognize any of ’em. ’cause we weren’t running trail camps back then. You’re like, whoa, what happened? Well they don’t even resemble themselves. Don’t even 50, you grow 50 inches and have a decent frame going from Chris’s three by four with 14 inch Well we’ve seen it in Nevada. We’ve seen it at lots of places. So I, I’ve contended on the Henry’s that, that that was long overdue to Henry’s wean that out, that manage, because you start shooting two on you wet year eight, 8-year-old, six to 8-year-old, three buys. Well if you have ’em. But when you’re shooting two and 3-year-old three buy somethings that just haven’t been able to grow yet can fill their tag. It’s a problem.

01:09:29:24 –> 01:10:16:04
And then you get your, like this, I just, I’m not a big fan of it. Very short periods of time. I don’t think that they should just be there forever. I think you can do more harm than good. And I think on the Henry’s that added up 30, 30 extra bucks a year for 10 years. And we’re seeing that yours, Josh, maybe you can jump in on this. You, you, you spend a lot of time on the ponds jump in on this. Like what are we seeing up there on the management hunts on a dry year? Well you think about the reason why those management bucks were, why those hunts were made was because of a surplus of deer essentially. Yeah. It wasn’t had didn’t have building with a genetic thing. Yeah. Didn’t have to do with anything. Just how can we kill more bucks that aren’t awesome bucks. Right. So that’s what the problem, you know, I get, I would get a lot of questions or mainly complaints guys were always saying, oh this, this is, this whole place is just terrible. I see more three points than anywhere else.

01:10:16:07 –> 01:11:04:07
Well a lot of it was because a lot of those bucks are just younger deer and a guy’s going from a general seasoned unit where he may see 15 bucks per hundred dollars and then he gets his first ponson tag and goes down there and now he’s seeing 40 to 50 bucks per hundred dollars. Yeah. You’re gonna have more deer in every age class. So you’re gonna have a lot of these deer and a lot of those deer are in that three to 4-year-old range. But then I, but I do contend a little bit, I side with them a little bit is they’ve all saved so many points. It’s a once in lifetime experience and they don’t want to tag a three by four Oh yeah. Or a three by eight or a three by six or whatever. And that’s what happens is they just, there’s so many genetics out there and there’s different genetics because you have that many more bucks on the left. So when it was first initiated, like Bronson was saying, maybe it was when it was first initiated it was good a for genetics. But like you partial reason. But like you say to take deer that were that way and it was good because there’s those bucks aren’t gonna get killed. That’s right.

01:11:04:07 –> 01:12:05:18
So it’s a good, I mean a great opportunity and it’s a feel good still is if I smashed a, I smashed a 7-year-old, that’s a three by on one side on a wet year. He was obviously genetic deficient. Happy to smashing. Yeah. It’s a great opportunity for younger kids, older guys. That’s who definitely benefit from that hunt. And and they can go out there and if they actually go out and do it right and kill a mature buck. Right. That’s just an old ugly deer. It’s, it’s not hurting. So fast forward 2021. Hmm. Yeah. Well you have two years of drought and it Yeah. You’re on the risk of having what this year it’s a great year to have a management attack ’cause you have whole choices of all the whole world of what you wanna kill for sure. But they’re all bucks that probably shouldn’t be getting killed. Yeah. Yeah. Because they all would’ve probably been, might have an impact on it’s next year’s trophies. Yes. A little bit. It’s not a genetic thing, it’s a Yeah. Just to feed. Yeah. Feed and body condition issue. Yeah. Killing tomorrow’s trophies today. Smash ’em likeable resource. Kill ’em all sounds it sounds like a song. Chris title it Rough it up man. Kill ’em all. Like it. That’s what makes it tough. ’cause there’s, there’s two conditions there that they run the tags off of.

01:12:05:22 –> 01:13:14:29
One is an age, they want like 50% of the bucks harvested to be over five years old and older. So in order to get that, you’re gonna have to have a lot of bucks. Get that age. So you’re gonna start to see a lot of weird or different things coming out. But then those bucks aren’t getting harvested and then they use that management buck hunt to ki try try and keep the thin buck numbers buck to dough ratios down. Yeah. Into the 50 range as well. So that’s where that hunt was kind of set up. But, alright. Did I like it? All right. Where are we at bro? This is maybe the second to last question. I had another one too. Oh, okay. Is there any way to stop point creep or reduce its effects without sacrificing quality? That’s a tough, tough one. ’cause point creeps tough because we just have more and more hunters and there’s just more demand on, on tags. I mean re on a finite resource. Yeah. So to increase tag numbers to, to counteract point creep. Yeah. There’s gonna be, it’s a tough balancing act to maintain the quality that you have. If you have to increase tags to get more people drawn to help help the point creek process. I think some things you could do though is like you Utah could take some of their elk hunts out of the rutt and Yeah.

01:13:15:10 –> 01:14:18:22
Issue more tags and not hurt the quality and yet get people out. Yeah. Move ’em through. That’s a good example my opinion. Mexico, what you could do there. Yeah. And five day seasons in New Mexico. Could you imagine what the Utah guys would say if we had five day season in November? Yeah. I don’t, I don’t know where this Sean guy’s from, but if he’s from Utah, I would say that’s like a number one thing you could do to help that Just season dates and just, you’ve also got people that have invested 20 to 25 years and to their point system have not had their chance yet. And but you gotta change it at some point if you or or not or not or live with it and, and be tough. They, they, they tried to banter back adding 10 more percent to the Utah Max point pool this year. Currently it’s a 50 50 split in the ma in the bonus point pool. They wanted to propose going to 60 and then only 40 random that that didn’t end up passing. I don’t think that collectively would’ve done much for point creep, but it it, well I think, you know, I think there’s things too, Bronson, we’ve talked about this, but you can take like, like when we had baiting in Utah, you had non archers hunting over bait because anybody can shoot a boat of 20 yards. Yeah. You know what I mean?

01:14:18:22 –> 01:15:22:07
And so you would have a bait pile and a and a blind and you would have trophy hunting dudes, you know, wealthy guys and not, or or whatever hunting the archery season because they’re very vulnerable over bait during that particular season with a and they only shoot a bow here in Utah and they don’t want to go archery hunt Nevada. You know what I mean? And so you can take, now we’ve adjusted that. You increase point creep on some of these archery deer hunts. Even general season archery deer shot up because of the efficacy. Now there’s gonna be less people that wanna hunt archery though. Yeah, yeah. That’s right. Worse. And same thing with like muzzle say we went back to a primitive muzzle. Oh. Think that drawing odds wouldn’t get better. Yeah. They would, rifle would get worse. Again, that’s, you’re gonna dang sure wanna know that you can, that you’re happy with a more primitive muzz or with, with a 48 or so Idaho year old eyes. Idaho’s rule. Idaho’s rule. Yeah. You got a lot of Colorado. Nobody’s Colorado. Nobody’s, I had to get to 41 yards before he felt comfortable on You’re shooting my butt. I mean I felt like when I slapped the trigger he was gonna die. I did. But that was 38 to 41 yards depending on, Hey you have, you have had to, you have had to go to readers, reader glasses. Yeah, but that’s older.

01:15:22:07 –> 01:16:23:19
We get Bronson that’s site is I’m seeing starboard on it. That’s about 10 to 12 inches in front of me. I don’t, I don’t have a problem out there far. I know, but I’m just saying as we get older, it it is. I shot that deer in Nevada 125 yards open sites. I want you, I don’t really wanna shoot much further. No, I don’t. And when I was a kid covering up a lot of the animals and I’m shooting on an open, I’m actually, my aim of my point of intact is the top of the ball. So it’s not like just put the ball on his chest and pull the trigger where, where at is that bullet gonna hit? So I’m using the top of the ball but dude, I’m, I’m not sure I can see the top anymore. I don’t know. Things are changing By the year when I worked for the Division of Wildlife, they made us go through a hunter education class to become an instructor. So I felt like I did my part. I’d intentionally fail half the class just because I was trying to save point creep. Dude, you caused suicides. Suicides went rampant here. Course. Like lemme see people about Target. Go home, come back next year. Go home. You suck. Yeah. I haven’t failed. I didn’t fail a student 10 years. I, I thought about every single time I’m like, I wanna limit my class to five kids.

01:16:24:00 –> 01:17:27:00
’cause it’s gonna be a competition for me. That’s all you guys are. It’s competition for me to draw tags, little booger eaters. Alright John, I like you and John would get along great. You and John Wood get along. John’s youth of getting sheep tags and awesome tags is disdain is well documented. John doesn’t want to issue a youth tag ever. No, no. Yeah, that’s true. Little booger eaters, elk and deer. But does sheep, I don’t think you should be able to draw it before you’re 30. No, that is one thing though. I get a lot of people would complain. You know, they, you’d get, guys would complain ’cause they say, well kid’s never gonna draw a tag. My kid can’t draw a tag. And then well, why is there no big bucks and every kid that turns, every youth should have a free tag every year. You know? And I and I, those are all the, and I felt those pains as a dad. Yeah. I want my kids to have a tag. I want ’em to have a tag on a regular basis. And we’ve had to go outta state to make that happen. Yep, exactly. That’s just, that’s where it gets, it gets tough, but you wanna see your kids succeed and hunt and, but anyway, it’s, it’s tough if you want quality too because not everybody can get a tag every year.

01:17:27:03 –> 01:18:29:11
Well what frustrates me, and I know I’m gonna ruffle feathers here, if you can’t see through the sites, you shouldn’t be no exempted and, and given sites given a scope, like in Nevada there’s a, you can, if you have problems with your vision, you can, your eye doctor can help you figure out how to get a scope legally. And same thing with archery. You know, oh, I get to use a crossbo now we know guys that are abusing the rule. They never, they have, they have a, let’s call it a traditional bow and a crossbow and they can choose day-to-day what they want to use. Yeah. They got stiff pain that summer to get a crossbow permit. Hey, if you can I’m pull a bow back, A normal bow, then you’re you, you’re gonna not use a bow. I’m sorry. That’s just part of it. Like if you can’t see open sight, maybe you don’t. I just feel like for muzz loader hunter don’t apply in this era. In this era we, if you’re wanna be a muzz loader hunter, you can be a muzzle hunter. If you can’t see, we’ll just give you a rifle. That’s what I feel like we’re moving to, to make sure they can enjoy a muzzle order season can’t discriminate Carter. Yeah, as I get older, my, what if I identify change, identify as a scope muzzle order hunter or as a muzzle hunter that I’ve never shot.

01:18:29:11 –> 01:19:36:00
That’s what I identify as Well. That’s what I feel like we’re you identify as a blind muzzle loader hunter and, but I only shoot a rifle. You’re gonna make a stipulation that allows me to use a rifle or a blind. Yeah, but if you can’t see to drive a car, they don’t give you some Bingo. That’s my point. Bingo. That’s my point. They seized your driver’s license at some point, don’t they? At some point there’s some people’s hunting licenses should be seized. There’s some people’s hunting licenses should be seized. Well, if you can’t see somebody’s glasses can’t through a rifle scope, their hunting license should be revoked. You do agree with that? Decide then get a rifle. I guess I just, I know, I know, I know. I just, I know how people feel. They, they hate me right now. I know. Well I’m just tired of abuse and it, what bothers me is I know 30 to 50-year-old guys getting crossbo permits for one year or for one particular tag. Yeah. Yeah. They’re waiting your problem surgery. Tell me, we know guys, if you and if you had a problem, get it fixed and go back to hunting and bow after that. Have some pride. Yeah. Well don’t we know guys that are getting surgery in August so they’ll go and get a crossbow permit for a particular tag. It’s just gets, it’s not a permanent disability.

01:19:36:03 –> 01:20:31:11
If it’s a permanent disability, that’s the intent of it. If you Bronson go hundred your whole life and you, I don’t know, had a, have a permanent disability, it feels new Mexico’s come leaps and bounds on the mobility impaired. They have cracked down on it a lot because there was abuse. But before it felt like if you were on a high cholesterol statin, you could get a mobility impaired. It felt like that. You get tennis cell bowling and I’ve got a I dude I’ve got an elbow problem right now guys. I hear you. You too. It’s from G Glasson and I feel it. It’s called in improper G glassing techniques can cause heavy so forth. Yeah. Be careful doing that. Do you have a sheet or is there any proper technique that I can purchase off you technique sheet? I don’t know but Archibald tips and tricks. He showed me what he did with this little twist and turn thing and, and that looked like that’s probably what, what did it caused it? We’re at two months now, three months. Oh dude, I’ve got this from glassing with a tripod. He does this little, so last night I’m waking and I got a scope on there sometimes. So it’s even more weight. I wake up in the middle of the night and you know how you sleep on your side and you got an arm out.

01:20:31:22 –> 01:21:34:29
I have to grab it with my other arm to lift it up. Same hair because it’s sleep time. No, because of this tendon that runs through my elbow lock up. You can’t move it. And it’s pain, major pain. But I’m just saying I don’t care. I’ll give up bow hunting if I have to and I can’t pull my bow back. I’m, I don’t think it’s right to just start crushing everything. Abuse. I think it’s the abuse. It goes back to the abuse. It goes back to the intent I think. And we have no big deal. So we need to take everything away instead of be realistic about it. And I guess I’m at that point, let’s take everything away then. There’s so much abuse and everybody’s abusing it. Let’s just take it all away and forget it. You can’t shoot a regular bow with 80% LA off. It shouldn’t be out there. You have to have a scope. Muzz loader shouldn’t be out there. That’s use a rifle. If you have to use, you know, again, we’re using some of these modern fire, you know, muzzle orders. You know if it’s legal, it’s legal. But I’m just saying if you have to use a brass, nine millimeter shell with a primer to get it to go off maybe. You know what I mean? Like can we just have a cuss cap back? I just seem to have a percussion cap. Go back to Flint pretty soon.

01:21:34:29 –> 01:22:32:29
People like Archibald that can nap their own broadheads. He’s gonna be, you might, you’d be sitting on the goal. That’s your retirement program. And that is what people, when we go back to that, that is what people’s argument is. What, what are you saying? We need to go back to where, where do you stop? Where do you stop? You wanna go nap out of Broadhead. It’s not, I’m saying I’m gonna, I’m gonna invest. I’m gonna give you a hundred dollars and that way if we ever have to do that, I will. I am That I gave you. Yes. What you want me to nap you Broadheads? Oh I just want, when it comes to that, I want to be the first customer like you. Nobody gets ’em until I get ’em. I paid ’em first. I’ll give you 200 to do because I don’t make me a full arrow. I’ll give you a hundred bucks per arrow. I still need to finish my bow and try to kill one with them. Yeah, that’d be cool. And then you go back to, that’d be a high wounding probability. That’s a problem. Yeah. That’s not ethical. Shooting it 10 feet max. Make sure it’s got a seven, eight inch cutting radius. Gotta the specs. No one knew you would take it to 12 and wound something. Alright. Well anyway. Where Chris? You Chris? You got one more and then I got one more for quick.

01:22:32:29 –> 01:23:35:16
Chris, we better end this thing or otherwise we’re gonna be two hours and people are missing Christmas. Let’s do dinner time. If you had enough points to draw any archery elk tag in Arizona and enough points to draw 13 A or 13 B rifle anytime, what units would you apply for? Why and what are you looking for weather-wise to pick a good year to do it. Hmm. Someone’s got some points. There was actually some big bulls taken on this last drought year. It was pretty impressive. Yeah. And but I wouldn’t have taken a tag this last year. I would’ve been nervous too, but it ended up being okay. But it’s hard to look past the 20 threes in a good moisture year for the sheer number of tags or the lack thereof, right. For elk. Well, based on the number of tags is what you’re saying. Yeah, that’s what I mean. They’re so conservative. You go to nine nine or 10 27 3, 3 C, there’s a hundred. Well, you fight for water holes on nine or 10, but those have 10 to 20 tags on ’em and you got reservation boundaries and bulls coming off of them in wet years. It’d be hard to look past those if you could say I want any tag. Right. We know the guys that do in wet years and they’re undoubtedly mean on 23 north and south. Yeah.

01:23:35:19 –> 01:24:46:12
We know guys that get ’em in those years and there’s nothing better in Arizona. There isn’t. I take 23 south, but part of I’m, I’m a desert guy and those freak freaking giants. Yeah. That, that has the potential for But you people argue with that about 23 north. Yeah. It has freak potential too. And they, and the same years that happens, 10 kills 10 giants too. It does. So we’re not minimizing those others. It just, if you’re, you can pick one in a wet year, that’s probably what you’d pick. And deer 13 A or BI don’t remember the question versus anything else. Was that the question on 13 A or B rifle? Yeah. Or when do you know? Well, the luckily thing about deer is you don’t have to put in until the what, second Tuesday in June, Jason, you kind of know. Yeah. By then Tuesday it is, it is very clear. Usually stay away or green light. And everybody knew this last year was gonna suck. And guess what? It sucked. Yeah. Elk by the second Tuesday in February. It’s not always clear because from about Right then through April is key. Is key. February 8th, you know, so they haven’t even shed No. And you gotta apply. Yeah. So, and that’s normal. Most states are kind of like that. But overall, you, you gotta go with your gut. You better have your point guard on elk, dear.

01:24:46:20 –> 01:25:51:23
You can predict it by the second Tuesday in June down in Arizona. And yeah, there’s nothing more you want in a wet year. Name another units that don’t produce that produce more to 10 29, 10 30 bucks, nine 20 threes. I mean, they’re all, there’s gonna be big bulls for a’s even. Geez, good grief. There’s there’s some great bulls out there. All right. And 13 B over 13 A. But man, I can’t ever forget. There’s, there’s a year and anyway, 13 A produced so many big deer and it was like one of those years where it rained and they pulled ’em out of the park. There was chutes of green grass. The doze came to the green grass, the bucks came to the doze and it was just one of those perfect setup scenarios. And there was 13 a crushed freaking monsters killed. Anyway, 13 Bs probably pretty special. 13 A too. All right, had a question for Chris. This one came in. Chris. Oh, I’d love it. Who, who did we, this was an anonymous, I don’t even know if this is a litigation. This is legit. I dunno if this is legit. Legit. This was an anonymous, where did this, where did this come in at? Definitely says anonymous. Where this come at? It says anonymous. Says that’s it came from Where did this, where did this question come through? ’cause I didn’t see it come in and any No, it you don’t get all the questions.

01:25:51:29 –> 01:27:10:23
Yeah, sometimes question. Wendy took a phone call a dm. Wendy. Wendy. This came from Wendy. This one DM was mailed. Was, yeah, this is the DMM direct. It was a snap. I got a snap. Yes. Might have been a TikTok jingle. I dunno. Alright. Chris, are you a horse guy? A mule guy or a mix or a minie guy? Okay, go ahead. I’m, I didn’t even know they made mini mules. Chris, go ahead. That’s have to be edited. No, but you can’t think of thi we don’t look, we don’t get to preview the questions. Yeah, I, we can we off the, we read these for the first time and have to answer off the cuff. The time is now yours. I sent a text message to John Bearer today and it says you’re a bad influence. I don’t know what I’ve gotten myself into. I remember thinking John likes them, so maybe I’ll try one out. Were you talking about what? Well, half of one. I’m a half-ass mule man. Now. So where are we at, Chris? Are you the proud owner of a mini mule? Where are we at? Bought a man, bought a mini mule. Okay. Did you return it for a full refund? I haven’t returned it yet. It’s kind of growing on me, so I don’t dunno. Yes, come on. Okay. He was a cute little feller. Just from a I want from the biological. How does a mini mule get hatched?

01:27:11:03 –> 01:28:17:03
Is this a Shetland with a Jenny or It is weird. How do we make ’em? It’s kind of like a co breeding a mule. Yeah. So it, it’s act It’s a pretty cool little animal. Yeah. But it’s about the size of a, a normal sized donkey. It’s just way thicker. Okay. Beef. So it’s about this tall, but it’s beefy. You. How do you literally, how do you breed ’em? What ho do you take like a she and breed it with a donkey? Lots of options. You’ve got, you have miniature donkeys. You do? Yeah. Oh, I don’t, okay. There’s miniature donkeys. Mini jacks. You also have where? All over, I say Shetlands, but I know there’s probably other breeds of little horses. There’s also, yeah, you also bear’s in the desert. Miniature horses. Miniature horses, ponies. Okay. You know. Okay. So in this case you have one of those concoctions met up. What’s cool about ’em? They are, they could probably pack some weight for how big they are. Yeah, yeah. Like I look at a mini horse and I’m thinking I ain’t gonna crush it by jumping on it. So they’re about, you could do something. They’re about the size of a regular, let’s say a, a jack, a burrow, a male, a jack that size or more like the, the female. Like how big are the, I don’t know. So they come in all different sizes.

01:28:17:03 –> 01:29:33:00
So I, there’s one mini jack donkey that I, my friend has. It’s tiny. What does a do carry? Hey, carry trapping equipment to the trap site carry. I got videos. You carry that in A pet carrier in your backseat. Dude, you could, you could go, you could board an airplane with those. I got videos classified as a toy donkey. Can those be classified as an emotional support animal? Yes. Literally. Literally. Some of ’em are just a blind hunter. Could use one of those. Some of ’em you can’t ride. They’re not riding donkeys. Oh, I love it. Go ahead Josh. Take, take it away Josh. Take it away, Chris. Well that was really good. So you have one of these, you have one of these half-ass donkeys? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Have you ridden it yet? Is this, is this only tried you for kids? Have you tried, is this only for your boys? Like Yeah, it’s for the kids. A hundred pounds or less. Maybe it’s, it’s big enough that I could ride it. But you’re scared of it. No. No. Is it good and broke? Is it hardheaded? It’s, I don’t know yet. What made you, okay, here’s the question. What made you, what made you say to John Bear what you said to John Bear? Because it’s not a horse. It’s not a horse. I tried to, I had it last night and I tried to lead it up on the concrete.

01:29:33:02 –> 01:30:35:27
My horses would fall me anywhere. And this little thing, like I walk up on the concrete and it’s like you’re trying to drag it on there. You can’t even do it. Yeah. It’s like, nope, it’s hardheaded. It’s four feet tall at the shoulders and I can’t, you can’t, I can’t pull that thing. It’s locked in, man. Huh? I bet they’re tough gristle ball. Yep. Why? You said thick. Oh yeah, it’s, dude, think about going, going up in region G with that sucker up in Wyoming. Some of these I did one, I don’t care if it’s, I don’t know if you could overload that thing. Your feet are dragging on the ground. I’ll bet that a pack of whole elk, I don’t know elk. Anyway, I got it for the kids. And the reason I bought this one was because I’ve been, it was owned by a friend of mine and I went on a ride with him a couple years ago and his son rode it. We went up into the wilderness. So it has been ridden. Oh yeah. It went up into the wilderness, hauled it, packed his sun around and it, that thing went anywhere. It’ll go through no shoes, just like most meal. No shoes. Yep. And it, it’ll go anywhere. It, I don’t know. It may be a step up from what my kids are needing right at this moment. But In terms of what size?

01:30:35:27 –> 01:31:37:21
Well, it’s like having a size, size wise, it’s like having a 50 Honda motorcycle versus a 1 25 2 stroke and it’s a 1 25 and they need a 50. Okay. So this little mule is ready to roll. Oh yeah. I just wonder, are we gonna start the Epic Mule Rentals? No, I don’t want that. Kinda, I might wanna rent ’em. I don’t want that kinda liability. Do we rent a trailer with it? I, I know Bronson, we go someplace. It’d be nice to take one of Chris’s animals. You, you make your, you make your own LLC, that that does rentals. I don’t want anything to do with that. I don’t want, I don’t know. I just want to pay Chris anything about horses. Chris, I just know that I don’t want one. I do know that. Oh, funny stuff. Well, man, that was a good question. A good question. Whoever wrote that in. Thank you. I know exactly where that came from. Appreciate you. I appreciate you anonymous for that. It’s enlightened. A lot of people. Yeah, it was. It was John. ’cause he saw the thing about an hour after I picked it up and I’m like, I don’t know what I just did. This is stubborn. John might have mentioned it in passing. He may, I don’t know if John knows how to DMM though. I don’t know.

01:31:38:01 –> 01:32:44:13
But, but this morning I, I went out there and I’m like, ah, I kind of like the little fillery. Chris likes things that give him a challenge. Yeah, yeah, that’s right. He does. And then six months later, if you watch him, they’ll follow him around like a little puppy dog. Yeah, they’ll, that thing will be worth, he’ll be, he’ll be eating outta the palm of his hand and he’ll be sleeping at the foot of his bed here at some point. He selling with the expo right up the middle of it. That’s right. Chris, we gotta put a Yeah. Jake Clark will have nothing on Chris. We’re gonna have to, we we’re gonna have to put some tarps down at our booth. Roll, roll them off Tony. Round we go. You get buck off and you survive. You get an extra prize. I’d be one of those parents to be like, throw my kid on there. All right. Well call it a day. We appreciate this. Hey, everybody that submitted these, we are done. No more, no more questions. This is it. We’ll do it again sometime months from now. But we appreciate you guys had an overwhelming response. It took three podcasts to get through it. Of course, that’s with a lot of diversions, distractions, digressions and everything else. However, we appreciate it. We milked three podcasts out of it. For all your listening Pleasure. For all your listening. Oh boy.

01:32:44:20 –> 01:33:27:21
Anyway, anything else wanna just, I guess wish everybody Merry Christmas. I don’t know. Merry Christmas. When are you gonna get this out? Christmas. But probably before Christmas. Yes, before Christmas. Have a new year. You know you need anything? The Western big game hunting. Wanna consider our service? Give us a call. But what do we wanna add to that? Epic outdoors.com. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. At Epic Outdoors, we help you reach your hunting dreams. Whether it’s helping you to develop a long-term application strategy, or finding the perfect outfitter for your next hunt. As a member of Epic Outdoors, you’ll also receive the Epic Outdoors Magazine and have access to the best hunting consultants in the industry, online tools, and more. To join Epic Outdoors, visit epic outdoors.com or call 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7.