The Changing Landscape of Hunting the West. In this episode we dive into the many changes that are happening around the west. in many cases wildlife boards are being circumvented and legislation is being drawn up as state law. Everyone has an opinion on how wildlife should be managed and people are agressivley trying to get thier agendas passed however they can. In the end we feel that there are no perfect solutions to these issues. No scenario will appease everyone in the hunting community let alone those outside the hunting community. We talk about several states and the proposed changes that are coming down the pipe. If you have an opinion contact your state representatives and voice your opinion.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:02:20 –> 00:01:16:00
How we manage elk and hunt elk in Utah. Elk hunting is coming out from review, which elk hunting strategy. So we had those kind of changes to where biologists were able to manage on a smaller scale, on a herd level. Anything to do with Western mid Games. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Josh and Wyatt. Chris, you’re at the keyboard. That’s right. How you doing, boss? I’m good. All right. You guys doing good? Glorious. It’s a glorious, we had a deadline passed this week and it’s always a little refreshing when that happens. We get a magazine done and New Mexico deadlines in the rear view mirror. So that was a hefty couple days. Yeah, that was a Hey. But I gotta say we killed it. We did. Huh? We did No issues whatsoever. Everybody’s applied and April about said March. But the April mags at the printer. Yeah, it is. E mags. Hot and live. By the time you’re listening to this, it’ll be online. So go have a check. And Gander. I think I’ve got a sneak peek. Oh yeah, we’ve, well, what do you mean? Well, I’ve seen the For two, we’ve been buried up for our nose at That’s a sneak peek. Well, anyway, I’m reading some stories. Neag. It’s awesome. I bet you know what’s in it. Yeah. I kind of have a feeling. Anyway. No, I think sun’s shining.

00:01:16:11 –> 00:02:23:11
I think it turned off really good. And by the way, this sun is shining. How about that kicked into daylight savings. Got a little bit more time in the evening. Speaking of daylight savings time, Jason. Well, yeah. I’m hoping it goes away. Us, the US Senate voted to extinguish the back and forth twice a year of daylight savings. Yeah. The house has to pass it and then it’s gonna go on to crazy Joe’s desk. So, yeah, if it, I just want your opinion. He can’t even do that. Right. Bronson? He can’t even do that. Right. If he did, let’s just say he did. Which be the best that his administration will do in four years. Yeah. And you know what it’s called? Is that, you know what it’s called? I looked it up. You know what, what’s it called? Literally the, the, the bill is called the Sunshine Protection Act. Are you kidding me? A hundred percent. Looked it up. Come on. They probably, the Sunshine Protection Act, they probably think we get an extra hour of sunlight on their solar panels or something. And forever more. We’ll be, we’ll have to pay homage to the freaking dams. Charge electric cars quicker for that extra hour, what it’s called. But, hey, come on. I just wanna know if you’re in favor of it, does that mean you’re in favor of that decision? That crazy Joe would be signing Am in favor, favor, favor of the decision.

00:02:23:11 –> 00:03:29:24
Okay. But I’m not in favor of crazy Joe, nor his people, nor anybody associated with him, nor his family, nor his friends. Hunter. Hunter. Hunter. Hunter might be Hunter. Hey, did you, Hey, by the way. Oh, he’s been sanctioned. He’s getting sanctioned. Other than Hunter’s a bad a name. I’m gonna admit that. But having said that, did you hear that The New York Times actually admitted that that is a valid laptop and it is his, they finally acknowledged the laptop is real and it’s his Did you, did you see that? No, but I heard it got sanctioned by Russia, him and Hillary and everybody. They’re just putting them back on them for some weird sanctions. Wyatt. All right. Well anyway, Wyatt, keep going. Glad you can join us. Yeah, I just snuck in here. Yeah. I have no idea what we’re talking about here. Well, the Daylight savings bill, it’s called the Sunshine Protection Act. And if it gets passed, I mean it, it’s done. Ja. I was trying to get Jason to say that. Yeah, he would be grateful for Joe Biden. Come on. Something. I was waiting for that to come out of his lips. ’cause then Chris could use the sound bite and we could use it forever. I can wrap it over his head. Grateful for Joe Biden. You know what? I’m grateful for it. For the fact that we wouldn’t have to fall behind. Yeah.

00:03:30:01 –> 00:04:31:16
’cause I know last year I was in Nevada when that took place and I was so messed up and I found myself hiking in the dark two hours before I needed to. And I was so confused. I didn’t know what time it was. We’ve learned how to, to work around that. Yes, we did. Utah, you showed up. Yes. You don’t, you leave it on Utah time. Yeah. Never move when you, because we hunt too close to Arizona and Utah and Nevada right here. Depending on the cell tower you’re getting, you don’t know what time it is. Yeah. So I’d to overnight in the camp trailer, it’ll swap and then your alarm goes off at different times. You know what I mean? It’ll swap which time it’s on. So we just learned You gotta lock it down. Yeah. So I kept sitting there on this ridge like, okay, here it comes. No, I, I didn’t, anyway, it was a lonely few hours on the mountain just waiting for the light to come. I swear there’s been deer saved because people have been swift football. Oh, I could see it. I’ve had many Hunter be an hour late in the fall. Anyway, quite interesting. But yeah, no, not a, not a fan of the Biden administration. Okay. Do we need to, I’d, I wouldn’t mind diving a little further over that. No, all I was looking for a sound bite and I didn’t get it.

00:04:31:21 –> 00:05:27:17
So let’s move on. Not grateful for ’em. So, although, so the evenings, there’s, there’s daylight. There is like, when we walk out, generally speaking, all winter and it’s been a long winter. Yeah. We walk out, we get here, it’s dark, we walk out, it’s dark. That’s gotten old. Well, and that’s the, there’s, that’s some rationale behind it that it gets, doesn’t get light till later in the morning, but it stays light longer in the evening. And something to do with Yeah. Using electricity, heart attacks, weird stuff. The war years, the hard heart, heart attacks go, go through the roof around daylight savings time. What? And yeah, they do for while. Never heard that. ’cause people, it’s stressful. It’s hard on people. It was crazy though. There were a couple weeks, well about a month January, where during the week I wouldn’t even see my house at dark. I would leave it dark and get back at dark and it was just kind of weird. I’m like, two days outta the week. See my, see my depression yard and the light. What’s the sunshine? Vitamin K or D One of them. You didn’t get any of that? No. Yeah. Vitamin D, right? DI think there’s a bunch of construction going on on that road to my house right there.

00:05:27:19 –> 00:06:34:24
And they’d been starting way early in the morning out there at the track code a couple weeks where we had enough daylight at 6:00 AM to to start Monday morning. Come rolling through. He was getting climbing up in that track coat to start it like you got an hour or so till you Yep. Get rolling there. Yeah. You know one thing about the Biden administration, I still haven’t got a federal refund. Can you believe that? I still haven’t got a federal refund. I guess there’s millions of people that haven’t gotten it yet. Oh. From last year. Have you written your letter from last year? Have you written here? Well, no. Who am I gonna write? Phil Froster. Dear uncle Joe. No, I think Hunter owe me some money. I think Hunter’s taking care of that. Yeah, I’m sure he is. I’m sure he is right in between the white lines, probably on his laptop. So anyway, I’m just saying somebody, somebody owes me some money. Maybe when they fire up that laptop, they’ll see your tax return. There you go. You’ll see one made out to Jason Carter and he’ll forge your name and you can have ’em for some federal fraud. Okay. I find, I find it interesting that tax deadline’s coming up for the, for the next year. And I haven’t even got paid from the last year. Okay. And this has never happened my whole life. Except for with the Biden administration. Right.

00:06:35:08 –> 00:07:50:25
So Clinton treated you right? Is that what you’re trying to say? Well, I’m trying to put words in this guy’s mouth. So Obama treated me right. Well, Wyatt, hey, we talked about what, what a good week it was to get the magazine done. New Mexico done. I’m sure you’re happy in that department. Right. Hey, real quick, before we leave the politics, we did have a dimm draw, an awesome tag in Nevada, right? Right. Yes. Yes. And he, he and we’ve had, we’ve had exchange and he’s actually a good guy. I want all the DIMMs out there that are hunters just to know I still like ya. And we do have members that are dams. Good stuff. And send your stories and stuff. Yeah. But he did say, Hey, just don’t tell the guy that I’m, I’m a gun toting liberal. I said, no problem. I won’t tell him. He’s a podcast listener too. He is. And he’s a good guy. Want a little shout out without saying his name? Yep. Anyway. Unless you wanna say his name. Go ahead. Let’s move on. I’m done with politics. Let’s do it. Wyatt worried me a little bit this week. ’cause we get New Mexico in and we’re all excited. We’re happy. Everybody’s optimistic. There’s another state inn that hasn’t rejected you. That, and then who knows where he is going. And then Wyatt opens up a fortune cookie. Oh, didn’t he really? How does he, does he think about these?

00:07:51:03 –> 00:08:58:12
You lay awake at night thinking about these things. When I have a magazine week and we get up at bad hours in the morning. Yeah. For so long. And then you don’t need to, and you wanna sleep in, but you can’t, these are the random thoughts that come into my head. Thoughts like this. But thoughts was, Hey, do you ever get a bad fortune in a fortune cookie? It’s all rainbows. And we brought that up Sunday. Sunshine. Yeah. Can’t remember a bad one. No. Other than Wyatt’s was empty. Yeah. That’s a bad omen. That’s, that’s a Wyatt broke the cookie open. So it was all New Mexico deadline day. Yes, I know. We were just in a hustle. Devin was, they’re checking stuff and I’m like, Hey, I’m just gonna run and grab lunch. Want me to grab you something? Run over to Panda Express. Come back to the office here. Eat my meal. Waiting for to that crack. Nice. Lunch and cookie. Break it open. Nothing. There’s nothing in it. Just, yeah. Not even a piece. Blank piece of paper. Just, Devin gets some great one. I can’t remember what it was now. I wish I could. He, he shouted across the office. Success is in your future. Yes. Something like that. I, I had nothing. And then I had to submit my New Mexico applications. Here’s your lucky numbers. And there’s like 14 of them. Exactly. That would be Devon. Wyatt.

00:08:58:28 –> 00:10:11:00
Wyatt just took the rest of the day off. Why? I went right into New Mexico. Withdrew his applications. We’re like, they’re keeping my money. I’m not drawing. I’m gonna get my money back. Devon’s had all his New Mexico hunt codes on him. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the units Devon put in for him. Congratulations. It looks like you’re gonna be hunting mud. Could you imagine? Wow. K Kir horn creatures are in your future. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Speaking of New Mexico, hey, I don’t know what TV show or late night show this is, but isn’t there something that’s like the best thing I heard all day? Or best thing I heard all week. I had one of those moments this week from Carter’s lips. What do you mean? Well, come on Bronson. Hey, we better come prepared from now on the next day day. You gotta be on your AA game if you’re gonna miss. So the deadline was what? Tuesday? What was the day or Wednesday? Wednesday. Wednesday. Wednesday at five o’clock. Kind of a weird deadline, but yeah. End of the work day. You’re done. 16th. 16th. The next day. So the 17th at four o’clock. So 23 af hours after New Mexico’s deadline. Carter, the best thing I heard all week was Carter’s destiny’s complaining. I wish New Mexico would just get get on with and get the draw round. Run the draw 23 hours after. Let’s, let’s run the draw. Run the draw.

00:10:11:04 –> 00:11:12:10
I wish said just get with it and run the draw. Well what’s wrong with that? Let’s run the draw. That’s the best thing I heard already week. All the apps are in. What you should do is just run the draw. Right? It’s computerized. All the apps are in run the freaking draw. If a fell and applied, punish him later. Not a big deal. Take his tag, reallocate it. Whatever you want to do. I don’t know. What are they doing between hour one and 14 weeks later and 30 and day 30? Yeah, whatever it is. I mean, we should have ’em 5 0 5, right? I don’t. Five by five. 5 0 5. What you now tell me, wasn’t there Bronson? There was a state, what was it? Was it a raffle? There was a raffle or something that ran. They, the draw deadline was like, let’s say it’s 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM And at seven, wasn’t it the Arizona super. I I think it’s a still couple raffle days. Arizona super raffle. I, it was like, I mean the next hour they ran, I promise. But hey, me bringing this up, you guys don’t need to bring ammunition. It was just a fun, the best thing I heard all day. That’s all I was saying about it. Run the draw everybody 23 hours. Whoever’s listening run the draw. 23 hours is too long for, but you know, people would say that to us too when we give away our hunts. Yeah.

00:11:12:12 –> 00:12:20:12
And but you’re a different that we do let it not just computer online, there’s a lot, we still do paper apps here, you know what I mean? I mean people can submit their tickets That’s right through the mail. Can’t do that in these states. So I just think there’s no excuse with a computerized draw. All right. What else you got Bronson? You got some yellow paper? That’s it. No, it’s full of ride on that. Well let’s get into some real, I I guess maybe real topics, meat. Those are just meat and ta food for thoughts. Yeah. So really I guess there’s been a lot of change coming up in the states. Yeah. You’re food storage, meat and taters. Well geez, you’ve been, you’ve been filling up your food storage Bronson. Well what have you been buying a little of this? A little of that. Really? It’s like my backpack of meals. I don’t like the same thing. ’cause for days when you’re gone for seven to 10 days on a backpack trip, you need variety in your pack because you just crave weird things, different things. If you have, if you have, if you’re your buddy Kip and you have mac and cheese every day, well okay, so we’re gonna have to tee this up a little better. But Bron basically with the world being a little bit of an unrest, Bronson’s been somewhat nervous. I’m not, Hey, we get to do this to him.

00:12:20:12 –> 00:13:26:05
I’m not one, he did it to us. He did it to us. I’m not, not one bit nervous. And so there’s a case lot sale down at the local grocery store, which means there’s cases of SpaghettiOs and vegetables and peaches, stuff like that. Fan sausage and so and so. I don’t buy those. So, so bro, so I go down, I’m like casing out the case lot. So, okay. When Jan and I, you know, buy a few things, hey, just wanna point out who was there first. Me. Okay. Okay. But I was just making sure because I knew by the time you got there, if I were to go after you, there wouldn’t be anything left. No. I just had a few things on Robinson goes in there and four hours later, no departs the store. I was gone within 30 minutes. It was very strategic. Just a few things. Cubic key items. So some I may have done some other things. Yeah, like what? The same stuff you have battered foot, no water. Oh. So yeah, we got some epic tanks. Epic tanks. Yeah. Dot com. Well, no, don’t go to that website. It doesn’t exist. Well it might but it might not anything related to us. Well it needs to be ours. It’s not us. We’re thinking we’re gonna do another business. No, I’m just, I mean, if we want it, everybody wants it don’t, I don’t want it.

00:13:26:09 –> 00:14:33:01
So I don’t wanna be, I don’t want to have a trucking company. No, I don’t. It’s kind of interesting just with all the unrest y’all out there ought to probably buy a few things. ’cause those shelves may be empty at some point. That’s all. So Bronson, he took it next level. 14 days later. I told my wife, you’ve got me for seven days. But, but if it takes longer than that, we’ll perish because I’m not gonna linger on this for weeks and months. But you did this week ca last week came and went and you were still buying this one. Well, you go to take care of a few things. Like there may or may not be people that clean all the propane tanks out at Walmart certain times. Yeah. And there’s no limit. You found out there’s no limit on green propane tanks. They all went in the back of your truck. So if, if somebody else did that to you before you got there, you naturally have to go back a week later to see if they got it. Yeah. So I, I what, what I think a little bit lingers, but I am what I think I’m 99% done and I am sitting back and just thinking about my assortment right now. So where, where are we or were we not sitting at lunch and you get a notification from Did this not, did this happen Or not A notification?

00:14:33:19 –> 00:15:33:09
Possibly notification saying what? Well, I, what did it say? I’m gonna tee this up though. Pancake batters on sale. I hate going into Wal to Wal any grocery store. I hate going in and going up and down. I hate shopping. I I don’t blame you. My wife, for the last year or two, she uses the Walmart app. So you can go online, order all of it, and then schedule when you wanna pick it up and they have it ready and you pull up outside, they walk it out in, you try and you don’t. And it’s the, it’s amazing. It’s a life changer. It’s, it is. Try it. I, no, I don’t show up much. Okay. I got a, I got a good wife. Well if you, if you have your wife do it, you’ll have her more around the house so that she can be there preparing the food that she’s picking up for you. Okay. Well she does a great job. But, but moving right along. Moving right along. That’s all it was. What notification did you get When we were wife in the me, we were sitting in Mexican, having Mexican food. She put, she put the app on my phone because when I go guiding and hunting, I, one thing I hate when I’m ready to leave, I think it’s so funny how we can’t get to the point, but go ahead. As I got this app.

00:15:33:12 –> 00:16:33:00
So when you get an app, what do they do now? They got what every layer? Communication notification. Yeah. Every layer. Email, phone number, texting. Yeah. Yeah. So I can’t go throughout a day now without blinging my phone about mac and cheese or Vienna sausage or whatever is available by pallet. Anything you happen to talk about by the pallet, your phone picks it up and puts it back into your, your feed. That’s right. That’s right. So, okay, so fast forward, we’re sitting there having lunch. So pancake batter that you’ve longed for, you actually put an alert that if this pancake batter comes on for sale no to alert you and you went and bought how many, no, this is how the app, how many did you buy? This is how that app works. If you look at something and look at it and they can tell you’re plugging and playing and you don’t buy, the next day you get a thing that says you might wanna buy this. It’s about outta stock. Is that what happened? They did. I had one this morning too for like, what? Some kind of potatoes. What was it? Oh, so you’re looking at potatoes. Some funny shit. Hey, I’m a meat and potatoes kinda guy. Is that powdered? I’ve got lots. Was it powdered? No. What was it? They were dehydrated, slice, dehydrated. Okay.

00:16:33:00 –> 00:17:32:19
So anyways, some, I mean what guy, what, what guy with pride at all is getting notifications from from powdered potatoes. And do you want to eat straight meat or straight mac and cheese or do you need some variety on your plate? I don’t know’s gonna say because ask you what’s in his. Yeah, what’s in yours? He got wheat. I don’t, you’ve got grain. You’ve got grains of wheat. You’ve got kernels of wheat. Which, which happens gonna do with that when you’re hungry? I, I don’t know. And that’s a contingent I have with Jenna. If something happens to her, I will die. You’re gonna have all these buckets. I don’t even know how to make cracked wheat. Have you ever thrown a handful of wheat in your mouth and started to crush? I have. You gonna have to. What does it dust out the mats? It’s called. Well it sucks in all the moisture and bloats you choke. So anyway, I don’t want all wheat. I want a variety. I’ve been, I’ve been looking for a Well, are they called? I was say that’s what this morning, what happened this morning? We’re sitting here at nine o’clock and all of a sudden Jason’s like, everybody get in the truck. Where do we find ourselves out hiking around looking for something for him to grind his wheat mat. He’s, and we found it. Yeah, we found a giant, we found it great spot.

00:17:32:19 –> 00:18:41:07
And, and and Josh’s just like, Jason, if something happens to Jana, bring your wheat up here, grind it and do something. I’m telling you right now, there was a tent there was closed. Somebody had already started that abandoned people process for you. We had to go take a, I dunno how this got onto me because well I don’t have notifications ringing my phone for random food items. Just Toyota trucks. Just, oh now that’s manly. Hey, so Bronson, I am, I am have a time. Aren’t we asked to provide it for our families? Okay. But for, you know, we also think about water. Right? And you have 55 gallon drums of water in case you need ’em. I do. So do you I have a couple, yeah. Okay. But we decide that’s not enough and it’s not easy to get it the water out ’cause there’s not any Yeah. Spigot spigots and stuff. And so what happens, Josh, why don’t you go ahead. Well that’s where I was that the epic there I was at my desk. Yeah. I was sitting at my desk and all of a sudden it was like I hear some rumbling through the window. Jason, next thing I know, Josh, get your truck. Meet me at I eight 20 in the morning, seven 15 you’re going to Salt Lake. There’s some epic tanks we waiting for pickup. Right? So here we go. 10 plus or minus 50 gallon tanks.

00:18:42:09 –> 00:19:53:11
Hey everybody got one in this room. I don’t want Sure. And our point is, is if we want it, somebody else wants it and nobody sells ’em down here. So why don’t we get more? I just want to quit thinking about anything that I don’t have. That’s all. So did you happen, did you yes or no by a generator or two? I bought one. I’ve heard those phone calls taking place the last few days. It’s as, it’s as if a draw deadline’s coming up. It’s so important. It’s the most important. I’m not, I don’t wanna say the model, make and model I bought because they’re almost to be off the shelves. That’s my point. So what have you found out? Like, and this is a serious note, okay, the, the Hondas, the the companion 2200 or the regular 2200 that you parallel together with the companion to make 4,400 are not on the shelves right now. And I found out why? Because the great state of, what’s it called? California, the Golden State. Oh is it the Golden State? California? I think it is. They have an emissions law that now is in effect that you’ve gotta have a certain something on that apparatus as it runs that it doesn’t pollute their air. Oh yeah. So and it needs a sticker to say this is equipped with that. This is equipped with it.

00:19:53:15 –> 00:20:54:06
Or the ones that are not have a sticker that says these are not legal for use in California and they’re outta stickers. All the other 49 states are waiting to get generators that have their proper stickers put on. So they’re out of stock. Wow. That’s the world we live in. And so we have five in southern Utah. Left? No, we had zero. Any though. I buy a different one. Remember I end up buying a big one. They, I just wanted to They sold you. Yeah, because what do you want? You want what’s right in front of you. Oh, I get it. I get it. So, and I, and I don’t have to parallel something together now if I don’t want to. How about the one you have by the well how about the one you have? I don’t. I like it. I didn’t go out and buy another one. So the other thing is what’s interesting these covid times, and I think this brings us into the hunting side of covid. Changing the change, the changing of times and the angry people. Okay. Tankers. So I go, we go and we re renew our registrations for our vehicles. Guess what comes Letter registration. With no sticker. With no sticker. And it’s and on that says put this letter in your glove box. We ran outta stickers or out of stock and stickers. Yeah. And so this’ll serve as proof that you’re registered and you’re good. Go.

00:20:54:09 –> 00:21:50:06
Did you get one of those? No. My wife tried to get her vehicle registered the other day and told me the same thing. Went There’s no way out the stickers. How are you outta stickers? Yeah. How are you outta stick? Well they either came from Russia, Russia, China or Ukraine. I mean, there’s no stickers. So, or the glue that’s used to put on the back is built most. Yeah. You cannot get a sticker. So your, your plate shows, you know, expired out of date, expired, whatever. And you get pulled over and then you gotta, you know, just another reason for them to pull you over and check for. Do you think the inventory specialist that’s ordering those, do you think they still have a job? I don’t know. When do you not, when do you foresee, let’s say they got fired. Who would they replace him with? I don’t know. Honestly. There’s nobody out there to hire. Dude, I did read that Utah has the lowest unemployment rate ever went down again. 2.1%. Wonder why? Because what do their jobs every, if you want a job, you can have one. It’s everywhere. Everybody’s needing work. How about, I didn’t even know we had a Chick-fil-A here in Cedar City until Wyatt told me he visits the campus pretty regularly. I think Pollock’s the one that brought that up today.

00:21:50:28 –> 00:22:48:00
I was drug there and I started to walk through the doors and I was like starting to go into like having convulsions. I’m like, I’m back here, I’m back here. I told myself I’d never back here. You, I get letters from SUU There you are getting a PhD. Yeah. Chick-fil-A’s good food. Sometimes it’s, it’s, that’s why I can’t believe, I didn’t know there was, they have one on the campus of Southern Utah University where we live here in our campus, but it’s inside the student center. It’s like the only place in town. So it’s kinda, it looks weird. We got every old dude, old construction worker down there on campus. I feel it’s like it’s my alumni duty to go down there. ’cause I get like pamphlets from em saying Hey donate be a good alum. Oh. And I’m like, I paid you enough money for the misery that I spent. There’ll be a chick file for 16 years of college that I went there for my four year degree. You got young kids, you can just drive up to the door kicking out. They don’t even know as far as I know. Unless they’re just holding out on you. Yeah, we’re gonna have a family meeting about it tonight. So Josh, I’ll tell, tell us all the amount of skinny jeans and man buns. Oh come on. I couldn’t, I couldn’t stay in there longer. It’s not worth the chicken. There ain’t worth it.

00:22:48:03 –> 00:23:56:25
No, I couldn’t stay in there long enough. Yeah. So let’s move into the covid environment that’s ticked everybody off and tankers, all these’s on edge are changing. Everybody’s on edge. Well and if the state’s not willing to change, it goes straight to legislature. I mean, or or it goes to a citizens group that then yeah. Petition legislature, however, this is Alaska. It’s yeah that and then you’ve got Wyoming, Colorado’s looking at change and you’ve got Montana made some big changes to their system. We should go through ’em one by one and just talk about ’em. But it’s a lot of unrest. I guess maybe where do you wanna start? Which one do you wanna start? About Wyoming? Yeah, the 90 10 for the big. Yeah that’s happened. And so the others are potentially gonna happen. Yeah. But yeah, start in on that. Yeah. Legislature passed the A law for the big five, which I think it’s kind of interesting. They limp lumped grizzly bears into sheep, moose, goat and bison. Even though we’ve still not ever been able to hunt grizzly bears, even though they’ve done a draw and got weeks before the hunt and it got challenged. But anyway, it used to be about 2020 5% of those tags went to non-residents. Yeah. And now it got approved, it’s just gonna be 10. And that’s kind of monumental. It cuts the non-resident tags in over half.

00:23:58:00 –> 00:25:05:25
And by the time you split it between a preference drawn a random draw, 75%. Yeah. Preference 25%. Random. If there’s no random, if there’s not enough for a random, there is no random, there’s a lot of states will do random first or at least they’ll allocate at least one random. I think for moose there’s only five or six random tags in the whole state right now. And the new and the current system, let alone cut it to next year. So this, this is gonna change things dramatically. Who knows the moose or the deer, elk can antelope could happen down the road. Well they’re top next changes commissioner tags. But this next year, this doesn’t take effect till 2023. So whatever you’ve got in the draw this year, you better hope you draw it and, and it’s gonna gonna make a head scratcher for applying for, you know, sheep and sheep and moose in the no man land point situation. The current system, it’s not even gonna be worth it. Broing $150 a point and the points get you nothing. Yeah. Unless you’re one of the 22 point type guys. Yeah. Plus you’re just gonna be in no man’s land. You can, I hope honestly, I I hope it really hurts their budget. I’m so tired I you get wore out fighting and Yeah. You know, and not being able to like hunt without an outfitter in the wilderness areas. Just little things like that.

00:25:05:25 –> 00:26:07:13
You just bothers me. At some point when they all add up, you just start getting ticked. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I guess in every state can, you know, generally a 10% thing is somewhat normal. Palatable in, in a state. But, but when you have a a well-established point system like that, it makes it really tough. And then of the 10% of the tags that you’re gonna give us, a non-resident half, let’s say how many half the oak tags in the state are less. Maybe we can even go hunt on our own on public land. Well on top of that, out of our quota, they take the non-resident landowner tags out of our quota. Yeah. You know what I mean? So they give 16% of the elk tags to non-residents. There’s a lot. But then out of that, some of ’em go to non-resident landowners. Yeah. Currently there’s a lot of elk tags that you have 0% chance to draw if you don’t have max points. You know, so the quotas are so, and then the pies on elk, they’re split four ways. Regular and special in preference and random. It’s like, so then you divide all of these different cookie jars up on top of preference points. 75% go to preference. You don’t even get a random shot at times. It says we put in there no tag in the random draw. And that’s, that’s under the current system, not the new one.

00:26:07:14 –> 00:27:11:16
So that’s a big change. It’s gonna affect things. I, I pray for all y’all that have 21 2, 3 points for sheep. Most that you can draw. And not all of you’re going to, unfortunately it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be rough. It is what it is. We’ve had guys call up with 18 plus points 18, 19, 20 that are like really? And like yeah really that’s where it’s at. And all of those points are for nothing and things change. I’m not saying that a state shouldn’t be able to change a little bit, but it is like they have no regard for non-residents at all. No. At least make it to where the points give you another name in the hat. And I, and I hear that may happen down the road, but for right now, those, you know, any points that you have don’t help you in the random draw. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, and there’s other states, there’s rums, I got messages, we both did emails from New Mexico. There’s a push down there to have all sheep tags be reserved for residents of the state. And because of the interpretation of their, you know, eighty four, ten six rule, they’ve had to make the kind of the hunt code for all desert sheep be what, 2 0 4 and Rocky’s 2 0 1 and everything’s kind of sub quotas are under there. Yeah.

00:27:12:00 –> 00:28:12:18
And, and that’s how they’re able to quote, meet the, meet the guidelines of, you know, two to three tags in each pool. But now if they do it within each hunt, if if they do it by each hunt code, you can’t round down ’cause there’s like one or two or three tags and so every tag will go to residence. So that that’s, that’s maybe coming down the pipe. You’ve got, you know, the Montana, the, the 900 dash 20 big cluster and eastern Montana of elk has been broken up for this year. You maybe read about that in our recent magazine. You’re there, there’s still some bigger clusters and chunks, but it’s not dominant the whole eastern side of the state anymore. Draw that 900 series and hunt and bounce around all over however you want. You’re gonna be more defined where you’re at. Gonna be interesting to see some drawing ons. Can’t jump on the generals at times, depending on the unit. If you draw an archery tag out there, you can’t go hunt a general over here as well. So that probably doesn’t affect too much as us as non-residents, as residents. I would imagine. You know, I’d imagine residents, if they draw that they wanna hunt special area and then they can still hunt their general over here. It’s gonna, I’d like to hear from some residents on that. Maybe we’ll call Burnsy or something a week or a couple days.

00:28:12:24 –> 00:29:16:06
Ask them he’s them about his thoughts on that. He’s usually pretty candid about things and I think too, Colorado’s looking at making some changes. There’s, it just feels like, and I guess Josh said it best today, it just feels like Covid has had a less lasting effect on everyone. Even though did you guys hear, I mean, mask mandate’s been lifted in a lot of places and gonna be continued to be lifted over the next few weeks. But having said all that, didn’t you have to fly? Didn’t you guys, your wife? Oh the airlines are still having it. I mean but but didn’t they say here in a couple weeks they’re gonna lift it. Yeah, that’s what I heard. They’re supposed to but, so anyway, but but we’re still angry and it feels like everybody, there’s so much unrest out there. They even Idaho just went through the legislature about lighted knocks, you know what I mean? And you would think, couldn’t you do that in a commission? Commission meeting Commission? Yeah. I mean come on. Well Utah, take Utah. Some of Utah’s changes recently to some of the guide outfitter accompanying rules there. You can’t be more than two guides per hunter and things like that. And what a constitute how you can get paid for even finding an animal. You gotta be a licensed guide and be one of the, you know, you know.

00:29:16:06 –> 00:30:25:15
So there’s a lot of things that have gone above the heads of wildlife boards and, and then there’s been wildlife boards have round twos of meetings, you know, patrol camera incident in Utah’s the one thing which passed again. So there’s no gonna be no truck for the purpose of hunting after August 1st. Yeah. Much very much December, Nevada. Yeah. Yeah. So, and the people in Nevada actually like it. Like for the most part I you hear positive, what I can’t believe is there’s not Arizona, you don’t hear the gnashing of teeth as much. I know a lot of the residents absolutely hate it. So I’m not saying there’s nobody that, but it just feels like, oh they took cameras away all together. You know what I mean? Kind of crazy. But all, so much change so fast. And, and I think part of it, A you got this covid environment, but b we’ve, we talked about the technology on that podcast recently, the last podcast, the guys outta Colorado. And a lot of those things that we talked about pertain to all the Western states. And so just kinda wondering what your thoughts are. I think, I think a lot of times you see it, it’s a, I feel like with wildlife management we have something when we try and manage it, we want it to be that way forever. And it just, it’s not and it’s never going to be.

00:30:25:27 –> 00:31:42:05
That was one thing I always kind of struggled with as a biologist was I always tried to want to manage, I guess for the lean years or a potential for a lean year in case. And, but then on the other hand you’re being told no, you know, we don’t want to have potential waste if, if there’s gonna be animals harvested and such, we want ’em going home with a person and not just dying out on the range and stuff. And so it’s hard to figure out how to manage to, and I think a lot of it right now comes down to, we’ve had some terrible droughts since 2018. You know, we’ve had a few high spots here and there, but very, very few. So what’s happened is BDO ratios generally have come down, deer populations just numbers in generally your fondo ratios, everything like that are down significantly. And so we all see that. And now we all have a, a thought or a feeling that the sky is falling. And so now I feel like a lot of, a lot of decisions are being made. Big knee-jerk reactions. Yeah. Knee-jerk reactions. Irrational. We’ve gotta change it now or things are gonna be done forever as you know it. And I look back to many, many years we’ve talked about it before, but I look back through the mid early nineties and stuff.

00:31:42:06 –> 00:32:45:25
We had a bad winter in 92, 93 and you know, 95, 96, 97 range when I first started no hunting and BTO ratios were in the tank. They’re, they’re actually better now than what they were then. Even though we’re going down and, and we rebounded. You know, we had good years and, and I’m not saying we can’t just sit back and, you know, let mother nature take care of it. But she, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a, we’re at that mercy I guess. And I, I feel like sometimes we need to make sure we manage. But knee-jerk reactions are kind of, it’s crazy. And I think that’s what Covid has brought on was we’re just so sick of everything else that, and then everybody, there’s a sense of entitlement, there’s a sense that needs to happen with everything, you know, and, and there is a lot of change that needs to happen in a lot of different ways. But, and it’s one of those things, it’s okay if you guys aren’t gonna do it, then we’re gonna do it and we’re gonna force it on you. It’s tough. I gotta fix every try to fix everything. I, I think I could see where some of that happens. ’cause you, you go through the rack process, it’s here in Utah, we have a RAC pro regional advisory Council in all the different regions and people voice their opinions and opinions.

00:32:45:25 –> 00:33:48:10
You know what we all say about opinions, there’s hundreds and hundreds and thousands of them. And so then they all go up to the main meeting and, and at times they may or may not be listened to at the main meeting and there may need to be 14 workshops and three years later no change happens. And then you’ve got people that are passionate about it at the legislature level that are like, we’re just tired of not seeing change. Yeah. And they can make some change. And so they they do, they take it upon themselves and do it. And so you’ve got at times wildlife being managed and rules and regulations being made over, you know, by one or two people at the highest level. But I don’t blame ’em to a degree because they, they sit and watch no change happen because opinions by thousands in for all way they get in the way of everybody, you know, which I can see the frustration. Yeah. Oh yeah. And you come off a couple years of bad drought and you, I mean bad and we’re angry and, and, and our deer herds are, are suffering. And so we’re on edge, you know, versus three or 45 years of milk and honey. And you know, the greatest thing ever was that we, you know, whatever, whatever minor change happened, we can pin it on that.

00:33:48:10 –> 00:34:48:13
That worked when really it was, you know, a lot of times weather related, which it is. Well and there were some changes. I, I look at Utah in what, 2012 when we went to the unit by unit thing. And I think that was significant. Oh yeah. And for Utah’s deer it helped tremendously. Yeah. We also came off of, so we went down to controlling, I remember when I was a game warden, you would see weekends southern Utah would be annihilated with people. You know, I remember going up there specifically one year on top of, there’s that stretch of, it was a big flat on top of Beaver Mountain. You know, I’d go up there and check that and I remember I looked the year before they made the whole ’cause archery hunt. You used to be able to do it statewide. Yeah. For the archery hunt. And I remember going up there and I looked back and I had, I had checked like 200 and something licenses opening day of the archery hunt. Wow. In 2011 I think it was. And then in 2012 they went back and they, they significantly, you know, broke up all these units and cut permits and all that and it was, it went down to that year it was like 80 or something like that, you know, pretty significant. And so there’s some changes like that that I’m not saying all changes are bad. That was a great change.

00:34:48:17 –> 00:35:54:00
And I think Utah’s deer herds helped. So we had those kind of changes to where biologists were able to manage on a smaller scale, on a herd level rather than a regionwide level. You could control where hunters went better. So I think it went well then we had really, you know, 14, 15, 16, 17. We had some pretty wet years. Some good deer numbers. Deer were take, I mean they were taken off. Deer numbers were climbing really good deer. The tags were up, everything was good. That was the milk and honey. And then here comes 2018. Yeah. And then 20 19, 20 20 we didn’t have monsoons. We rely heavily on the monsoons for, for a lot of moisture. The wildlife rely on ’em heavily and we didn’t have those and we just haven’t been able to recover since. Yeah. You know, we’re hoping this year a little bright spot that we’re hoping this is gonna be a turnaround. I’m, I’m intending that these terrible drought years have brought the overall average so much lower that now when they say it’s at a hundred percent it’s tainted by the bad the last five to 10 years of bad droughty years. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it’s like, I don’t know how we’re at a hundred percent where we’re down here. Yeah. But well Josh showed me we’re actually to this snow 50% since basically January. But when you look at that, it’s from October one till now. Yeah. Water year.

00:35:54:01 –> 00:36:54:21
And we had an incredible fall. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It’s just hard when we say a hundred in Utah, that usually means you, you still can’t see over the curb in your street. You got snow. So much snow. Yeah. I’m used to stuff like that the old days. Yeah. We don’t even need a really need to have a contract for snow removal here at the office. No. I’ve used my blade once in two years in Cedar City. Yeah. Only snow or four wheeler. So kind of crazy. I think there’s a lot of good points. What can you, no, I think we covered a lot of it. A couple other changes we might’ve skipped over is that Montana preference point deal that they just come out with too little outfitter allocated point there. We covered that in the publication. Did we? We didn’t The publication I knew that’s on the podcast. I didn’t know if we talked about it before I got in here or not. Go ahead. Dive in Anyway. So guys that are applying with an outfitter for that general licensing, now they are get one guaranteed preference point, I guess they can buy it a hundred dollars plus their one for the year, which you get ’em more into a forced draw situation. So especially if you have one right now, they are gonna make you apply. If you didn’t apply last year and you got points, you’re gonna lose them.

00:36:54:21 –> 00:37:51:17
You gotta apply in consecutive years or you lose them. But, but yeah. And and the other thing to keep in mind is Montana’s one of those states on the preference point, you actually get the point going before the draw happens. Yeah. Going into the drawing. So if you’ve got one, you buy your regular one and if you’re gonna go guided, you buy that one. So you’re going to draw a three, which is the new ceiling on that. Yeah. So you’re probably gonna get it guarantee it’s a way to, you know, if you’re playing with zero right now, you can go on a two by buying, if you’re gonna go outfit it, if you’re gonna go out and you have to be outfitted fitted on elk and Deere, if you get a general deer elk combo ball, you can’t do unguided on one and guided on the other. The draws are actually better with zero. So if you’re going in and you didn’t play the point game, you could, you know, your, your drawing odds are better than say with one. Yeah. With one you’re kind of so just kind of, you need to look at it and decide do you really wanna go this year or do you want have a small chance of going this year and then you would load up next year. Well the crazy thing about that is they give 75% of their tags to the highest point holders in the preference.

00:37:51:17 –> 00:38:55:17
We’re talking the general combos and the other 25% randomly, but specifically to random people with zero points. Not randomly. You gotta have zero. So if you have one last year you, we all saw we’re like geez, your odds were bad and how were they, you know, twice as good with zero. That’s why you had fewer people with zero. ’cause we’re trained right when you apply Oh yeah. Buy the point. So you buy the point you actually go to one before the draw actually even happens. So you’re not in the zero point pool at all that you’re, the guys that apply and opt out of the preference had better, better odds than getting guys with one point last year. So kind of screwy. Yeah. But like you said, yeah, there’s a lot coming. We haven’t even finished, you know, we’re two thirds through the states this year, four out of the six mags and we’ve had a lot to talk about already. And if we opt outta that preference point, you don’t get a chance to buy it in the summertime. That’s right. Yeah. You got one application period to either apply or get a point you can’t apply and then decide in the summer I should have bought the point and go buy it. You can’t do that. Which is crazy. Yeah. Don’t they wanna make money? I know. I mean, good grief.

00:38:56:00 –> 00:40:02:17
You know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna allow us to play the game extract the most you can out of us. I don’t know. That’s what most states do. I do have a little work board session, kind of an agenda that’s going on here in Utah and it was kind of to, you know, to shed a little light on what’s coming down the pipes and what all of these states are up against. And, and Josh, you, you kind of enlightened us on this that, that some of these things, some of the different topics, they’ve got a technology committee, they’re, they’re gonna talk about, you know, what, what to tackle. I mean and that’s the one thing I think these states are, we’re pretty aggressive. We gotta have social media. If hunters are ticked, they’re pretty aggressive. Yeah. And they’re on it. And then all of these commissioners, the people on board members game and fish, they have emails, they have cell phones and people are willing to throw ’em out there to the world. And so they’re now answering to the call of checking on technology, dealing with all of the different changes at, at coming up with changes of things we haven’t even heard of. But anyway, they’re gonna tackle some things on, you know, the technology scopes on muzzle orders, hunting with all three weapon types. Obviously that means dedicated hunter here in Utah. Yeah. You know, gonna address that.

00:40:03:28 –> 00:41:10:22
I mean they’re gonna, they’re gonna talk about, you know, some of the different, they were talking about Josh and, and, and Adam we talked and Wyatt, we obviously talked about the forked horn potential, right. Of coming up with fork yearling. They said yearling a yearly two point. How do what if he should a 2-year-old two point, they take it from you. I know that’s what I mean. I’m just saying. But even the idea of it, and like my point to you guys was, and you, you guys, Wyatt and I are on the non biology side of the office. Okay. You guys are the gamey side. But in your minds like is Spike Hunt, does spike elk hunt’s work? Would this forked horn work? Well Idaho’s done a little bit of it and I haven’t seen amazing things from it. Well, but they do it in the area. That unit is also a extreme limited entry unit, you know? Right. Like unit four comes to mind One That’s right. One that’s managed for quality. Yeah. And it’s a way to allow the locals whatever, to hunt your backyard unit. But you can only shoot a forking horn right now general in the gen with a general tag. Well in this case, but why we got 70? What’s, what’s a, I’d like to know the breakdown. I’d bet it’s like 75% of the bucks.

00:41:10:27 –> 00:42:05:06
Or maybe that’s too high, but 50 to 75 It’s easily 70 are yearling bucks. Yeah. Oh yeah. It’s easily 70 on a general season unit for sure. Yeah. So I mean if that’s what’s there, why do you have to pair off and have hunts that are only for that one? That’s really what’s there anyway for kids. They were talking about youth thought big cause that’s, that’s the big cause. But what happens is, is you put, now they’re forced that’s you can, it’s like these general areas. We would have good places within the general areas because you could hunt the whole region, right. For southern region. You could hunt the whole south. Yeah. Now we’re gonna pick you, you know, X amount on Pine Valley, X amount on Zion, X amount on Southwest desert. And so now we’re gonna put all this pressure on fores. These certain people can only hunt fores. So I think it’s gonna put an inordinate pressure on forks. It does. You know, that’s, yeah. You can’t pass ’em because what are you pass ’em one that forks a little deeper than the other. I mean, what are you really passing? You’re not pass them, you’re not so crush one move on. So you smash that I’m gonna pass a for and hunt big buck. And what does that look like? Well Adam, you know what we really don’t wanna do?

00:42:05:06 –> 00:43:08:19
We’re not gonna give that many tags and so it’s actually not gonna be that bad. But we’re gonna get back into being easy to draw over the counter and able to have families to have, be able to camp together and things. I mean, that’s my point. You’re gonna hear all these things, but is that proper management? Just tell me, you, you guys are the experts. No. Would you be in favor of that? No, no, I don’t think so. And and I think even on the spike only stuff we’ve seen, I know that’s contributed to some of our demise, if you can use, that’s not, not too strong a word, but of our, of our top end elk units was that we now allow spike hunting for 10 plus years. We’re eliminating a lot of yearling bulls every year off these units that now can’t recruit to older bulls. Because let’s face it, if they, if they get through that first year of life, you know, that’s their most vulnerable time from a predator spectrum. And they’re, they’re dumb. You know, they’re, they’re, you know, they’re goofy yearling elk and spikes are goofy. If they can live through that first year, they’re stupid rag horns and that from two to six or seven, they’re not even looked at by people on most of these limited entry units. Right. Two, two to five year-old bulls for the most part. Exactly.

00:43:08:26 –> 00:44:09:18
So they, they grow up and we get a lot of, a lot of bulls. But when, you know, I, the other, the other thing about that is this other states that do it, they do it on a few, like Oregon does some in their spike on the units, but I don’t think they’re the epitome of them. Management. No. And they draw and set number of them, right? Yeah. Knowing they’re not right. Yeah. It’s not 2018 or 20,000 of them. And hunt wherever you want and lack. I don understand you could all go to San Juan. You could all, every one of those could go on the pavon. Well, we talked about places like Ping, which lake? Why don’t we have a bunch more branch tags? You know what I mean? Yeah. Why, why is that I the possibility? It’s, it’s basically they don’t manage for bull cow ratios on our limited entry units. It’s just an age. But at the same time too, there is excess, there’s excess opportunity there to harvest with some bulls, because you don’t need that many bulls in a population to keep that population growing. And the reason why they’re doing it is because our structure is in the rutt. Yes. And if you give extra tags, you’re gonna wipe out the quality. So then let’s kill the spikes. I think the point isn’t the spikes or branches, I think we need to address the seasons.

00:44:09:24 –> 00:45:23:24
Now you look at, I’m, I’m a little bit nervous now we’re talking about drought stuff. Now you think about if we have low calf cow ratios, you know, your, your calf survival is down on a particular year. So you’re in the 30%, your population isn’t growing. Whether that’s cows bulls, you know, whether they’re little bulls or little calf or little cows, whatever. Your population’s not gonna be growing. Well if then you only have say 30, 30% survival only, you know, 50% of those are bulls going in. And then you’re killing way low number, killing 30% of those 30% of the 50 that went in that year. You’re gonna see some years down the road that 2-year-old bull recruitment is number is really small because they’re, aren’t they few of them born and survived? Then you hunt ’em as spikes then, then what? Actually recruiting into the big bull population. And in layman’s terms, they’re seeing that in their surveys. Yeah. Right. That are occurring right now. Yeah. They’re seeing that. Yep. And I, so I think it has the potential now to where seven years down the road on a unit that’s managed for a 7-year-old age class, you’re gonna have an age class missing. Potentially. You, you’re gonna see that. And so I think the whole reason why they do the spy hunt here in Utah is strictly for a social social event. So seven years. Yeah, seven years down the road.

00:45:23:25 –> 00:46:24:13
You’re just saying basically where the UN is, you know what I mean? Like they’re just general potential. Just be, there’s, there’s nothing out. There’s be, there’s gonna be an influx this year. I think there’s gonna be a pile of cows and, you know, that are having calves. The calves are gonna be great. They’re gonna funnel back in. So it’s not gonna be the end of the demise. But I think that over time, that effect can affect the whole herd. Well this, this whole statewide elk plant is up, is one of the topics on there. That too. That’s, that’s the whole Utah manage how we manage elk and hunt elk in Utah. Elk hunting is coming up for review elk hunting strategy, which sets for five years. I think it’s a five year plan. Yeah. It’s a five year plan. But I think sometimes it’s natural to make adjustments under the current plan and to try to minimize the amount of change that may or may not take place. And I feel like it’s time to revamp the entire thing and start with the freaking roots. Start with our seasons and then come down and then let it trickle down and properly manage instead of keep band-aiding this. Okay, the spike was a little aggressive here. It’s not as aggressive here. We need to add over here. You know what I mean? Yeah.

00:46:24:16 –> 00:47:27:05
And, and it all boils down to hunting and everything in the rutt with all weapon types. Yeah. I mean, in my mind I don’t, it does. And, and they could issue a significant amount more of tags if they went to move the archery season into the, where our rifle season or muzzle or season are now. And they could do that and, and then you wouldn’t have to feel like you have to kill excess bulls having more spike tags because you’d be able to still harvest them at that point. So I, and harvest branch bulls later on in the year when they’re less vulnerable. And you might still have some good bulls. I don’t know. I mean it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s hard because Utah started, the way they started hunting them was elker brand new. Oh, we can now here’s five tags on a unit, or here’s 10 tags. And we always, oh, let five, let ’em hunt ’em. Right in the rutt we only, it’s the first time we’ve had it. They started that way and we’ve been 25 plus years into it on all these maintaining that program. And, and then it went from five to 10 to 20 to, oh, now we have an archery. Now we have a muzzle. And so the rifle hunt always was in the center of the rust. So now archery before muzzles right after now due late in November.

00:47:27:22 –> 00:48:33:21
And okay, now regulations are here and how do we keep the quality? Well, let’s issue spike tags in a different season date. So we don’t kill big bulls, we’re just killing bulls. So we can still have big bulls with early rifle hunts. Man, we’re slicing that pie so many times trying to, trying to manage under a 25-year-old system. Yeah. When it was new when we had transplanted elk. And here’s five tags on the sand, Juan. Yeah. Or 10. So, and and s spike hunters. Now they’re more driven than anybody I’ve ever seen. Oh dude. I mean, have you seen the cow hunters in Colorado? No. I mean, they’ll take jeeps chains, winches. Oh yeah. 14 in a row. Yeah, we’re going to, we’re going cow elk and I mean, and they are, them guys know how to cheat. Don’t deep. They’ll go and be foot if you want to go through some gear. Oh, and truck equipment. They’re the guys to ask. Well, it’s not about the antler. No, it’s about cow meat and friendships and jeeps. I mean, it’s amazing. And I think that’s the thing, you know, a lot of this stuff with Utah, you hear a lot of complaints and I, I do secretly inside have to laugh. And it used to really bother me actually significantly as a biologist. You’d get a guy complaining out the left side of his mouth that deer herd’s are terrible, we need more mature bucks.

00:48:33:21 –> 00:49:26:04
And then on the right side of his mouth, he’s screaming, I wanna, because my kid can’t get a deer tag. How come I’m never gonna be able to teach my kid how to hunt unless he has a deer tag. And, but it’s gonna be a gamer his whole life. But, but he, the dad can give up his tech to the kid. They can both go home. There’s a mentoring system. He can’t do that. He can’t do that. He wants a mentoring system. Oh, he wants to kill buck himself. It used to bother me. And, and honestly inside we need to decide one thing or the other. Basically our general season units aren’t managed for quality. We all want that and I want that. But what needs to basically happen, it’s all just controlled by permit numbers. And you know what, I remember when I was a kid, there were a lot of different things. I used to get a BB gun and my dad would trae me around in the mountains, you know, and I didn’t always have a tag and things like that. And I don’t necessarily think a kid always has to hunt every year a deer to get into hunting. Ashley thinks she needs not every year. Well, no. She wants to go state to state to state and drop outta school. I don’t know where she gets that.

00:49:26:04 –> 00:50:38:13
Something tells me that since she’s the youngest and she’s the only girl, she’s gonna get her way. Well, I’m trying to figure out how to kill her. A 200 digger. Alright, well I’m just teasing. I’m not, but I think there’s, there’s a lot of things, you know, there’s, they’re, they’re talking, so we have point systems for dedicated hunter General. We have limited entry draw. This is in regards to mule deer. And that’s gonna be considered and it probably does need to be considered. But I guess my point, and I think, Adam, you made a great point. We started out one way. We started out with general deer. Yeah. Every family was fed on General deer and we you bought em, but the store, you didn’t draw in the Yeah, they made memories. Memories. Everybody’s got the pictures of deer camp. This is where my family camps, this is what we do. And they killed giants and they did. And it’s just a different era. Josh, you made a great point. Everybody wants to keep it the same. And why can’t we have it just the way it was 25, 35 years ago. And it just, it’ll never go back to that. The Gunnison guys, they made that point. Gunnison was amazing. 2003 through 2006. Most amazing thing ever. Dear heaven. And it’ll never go back to that ever. And so anyway, there’s a lot of change.

00:50:38:20 –> 00:51:38:29
That potential change, a lot of discussion coming down the pipe and all of these things are on the table. And I think they, they do need to be considered and looked at and it feels like it needs a major flushing and, and to now manage for elk populations of this. Not when we had 20, you know? Yeah. When you had brand new elk crews everywhere and it were, they were the novelty of they were, I remember, you know, I don’t know. You hunted the soss growing up. Oh yeah. So did I I was a general bull unit. Yeah. But I lived over on the ball. I was a human trail camera. Yeah. Swaying in the top of an aspen. But I, I grew up on the balls on the San Juan and I remember the first elk I saw in like, the mid eighties and it was just like the most amazing thing I’d ever seen. Yeah. First one. And, and then they brought more and they introduced about 200, 250 of ’em from hardware ranch and started hunting five. And then they, that was going on all over Penguin Southwest Desert. I heard they did transplants at night. So nobody knew how many elk were coming. Was there Not tell me We were not on San on San Juan. My dad worked for the game and fish. There was some things said about that. Oh, not on San Juan specifically.

00:51:39:00 –> 00:52:40:18
That was a, that was, I’m just saying in general. Oh yeah. Like when, when we’re trying to spread out the alcohol. Well I wasn’t here, but let’s just put it this way. I’ve heard some stories. Okay. Of course Wyatt and I on our side of the office, the non-game side. So we, we don’t hear the stories. Some we’re not privy to that. Some night times smash grass. Yeah. That there horse trailer may be, there may be a horse trailer parked a highway 20 and 89 that don’t know where it needs to go. But it’s gonna be That’s right. Back in the good days. Weren’t those, those were good days. They were, they were. I mean, and that’s what I think too. You think about, a lot of guys talk about the heyday of Utah elk and that’s just what had happened. I think that was almost a mistake in a way. You know, we, a lot of elk got moved around and elk management wasn’t really known or how to do it. And so there were a lot of elk put in places and then there were ages set. So you had all these units, the manti, the nebo, all these units, even some, all these places where they were managed, they weren’t hunted. And so you had a big influx. There wasn’t spy counts. You had a significant influx of bulls. All sizes, the ages of bulls.

00:52:40:18 –> 00:53:40:16
It was the, it was the same thing that happened in Gunnison that we’re talking about. That’s what that and almost the same time, 2003 to eight. Wasn’t that the best ever Utah elk word? W yeah. 2003 to how many 400 inches did you put your hands on Wyatt? I mean, there was double digits being killed a year. I mean I, I was too young at that point in time, but there was a lot of, but but it was, I I missed the heyday kind of. I was right at the tail end of it. Yeah. But that’s one it, but that same thing. You’re right. It ripened be, we didn’t have plans. We had high age objectives. We’re letting outgrow only killing five or 10 of ’em on a unit. Pretty soon we’re like whoa. We got big stuff. Yeah. Everywhere We’re we rewrote the record book. Yeah. Between Arizona and Utah. There’s nobody keeping up by accident. A little bit. Yeah. Just like, just slightly gunison. Oh, we’re gonna cut tags, go unit by unit. We slashed ’em. What did say 90% that from what they thought they were selling? ’cause those are best guesses and Yeah. ’cause general’s general. Yeah. And so they ah, we think we’re selling this money that hunt the gun some base. Let’s cut ’em by 90%. Whoa. In four or five years it was nirvana. Like they said. I still don’t understand Josh, you made a great point.

00:53:41:06 –> 00:54:42:00
We don’t wear scared to waste the resource and so we over harvest a little all the time. Let let a little go to waste. I’m fine. I like these old animals who caress if a little bit go waste natural. They don’t, it’s not gonna happen. My old man always said it best. Nothing goes to waste coyotes eat ’em. The ravens crows. I don’t wanna shed hunters get enjoyment out of picking up a big old deadhead every now and again. But I think that’s what I find them buying it back from game and fish. I don’t know, whatever. I think that’s what stems on a lot of this though. Because there’s a lot of kids, honestly in Utah that grew up probably just a little bit younger than Wyatt that saw the tail end of that. And that’s what they thought elk hunting was like for, for eternity in Utah. And it wasn’t, it was a, as Bob Ross called it a happy accident. I think you watched PBS painting shows. Oh, when I was a kid. How do you know about PBS painting shows? Whoa. Because, because when I was laying on my couch and Sesame Street got over and Bob Ross came on next, I was too lazy. Tocause. I walk up, I didn’t get tv. I had to walk up. Yeah. I had to walk up. I didn’t have tv. I didn’t have tv. Poor tv. Yeah.

00:54:42:07 –> 00:55:39:07
I didn’t poor, I had stompers and shovels. That’s why you still doesn’t watch TV when I start talking about a, I don’t, I don’t watch TV commercial. Did you see this commercial? Doesn’t even know Jenna won’t let me. She won’t let me. I hear it’s a waste. I was too lazy to get up and have to walk over to turn the dial. So I watched Bob Ross sometimes ’cause it was right. There’s nothing wrong with Bob Ross though. Exactly. There’s a lot wrong with that. I mean, it was a good time watching paint happy little trees and mean the guy was amazing. He was talented. Yeah. There’s no mistakes. Just happy access a white guy with an afro just is just, just, that’s something you just gotta see to all. So let’s bring up anyway, bring it. So what I’m saying is, so then we had this big spike in Utah of the glory days of Elk. Everybody wants to go back to that. But look at the amount of changes that have happened since then. It’s not possible. It’s not physically possible with what’s going on right now with management in the state. It’s not possible. We’re not saying it’s bad. I’m just saying with not possible. The way management has changed now, I think Utah manages elk in a lot of good ways where we have units that are, you know, more permits, less permits, different age classes.

00:55:39:22 –> 00:56:49:19
It just sucks that if it’s your unit that you want to be an a 7-year-old and it’s a 3-year-old that sucks. And you’ve been waiting for 25 years. I’m gonna have an opinion. I’m gonna go to my rack and my rack’s gonna go to the and and try changing it. Now when you’re the guy with 25 points that hasn’t had his turn yet Yeah. Then I’m gonna go to the legislature. Exactly. No, that’s, you’re, I’m gonna make something change that you’re exact. That’s how it happens. That’s how it happened. That’s exactly how it’s happened. That’s how happens. Kind of interesting. Aren’t you a local, locally elected state delegate may or may not be. Let’s move on. I don’t know what to move on to though. I think that change is hard and change and it’s ting out as fast. And I wanna say it, I want to say it out loud. Do we have the right answers? No. Who’s we us here in this room? Oh, no, no. And are we gonna be ticked at parts of the things that may change that have been changed? Yeah. Okay. And are we and, and is everybody, no matter what change occurs, you’re gonna see a, a major gnashing of teeth here in the state of Utah no matter what. And the problem with change is you don’t know what it’s gonna do until after the change. And normally with wildlife several years after.

00:56:49:20 –> 00:57:56:00
That’s why I think you change and then let the dust clear. Yeah. And then if it, and then if we need to take technology a little deeper, let’s do it again and let the dust clear. Yeah. But the problem is, is we, we may just go full bore, change it all and then change the landscape of hunting altogether here in the state. Yeah. That’s what I, I don’t know. Yeah. That’s, that’s where it’s hard point systems management strategies, seasons, everything’s on the table. Well yeah, people view a point system like an investment and unfortunately it is not linked to your social security number and your bank account like a 401k where it is actually your money. Like it is a point system you’ve been buying into. I I mean I doesn’t guarantee me something special at the end. No, you mean it’s possible. Or we have the economy crashes and my 401k now is worthless. Yeah. Is that what you’re saying? That happens too, right? Yeah. That does. That’s the real world stuff can change. And, and it’s unfortunate, but there’s man, there’s a lot of people that, and we’re on the topic of Colorado now, so how many calls you get with 15 to 20 point guys and they wanna, I I am time to hunt a 200 inch. You’re fine. ’em and you cash ’em my points and you’re just like, whoa. Wow. Yeah. That, that doesn’t equate to that.

00:57:56:08 –> 00:58:56:05
It doesn’t, you can’t expect that. Here’s a couple of good options. Yeah. The playing field’s different in Colorado right now, by the way. Getting a tag is just getting started. Yeah. You know, that’s a pretty big feat. Unless you’re Josh and you walk in and 15 minutes later you drive away. Yeah. With a buck in your truck. And then of course Bronson, you did that on elk in 27 for archery, rolled in 45 minutes later, threw a 55, 3 55 pull in the back of your truck and drove away. Did you even spend a night in the unit? No. I, alright. I drove from my house, went down there, killed an elk, took care of it by myself and drove home and was home in 20, but round trip 23 hours. And now do we not just hear Bronson complaining about all the bad quality everywhere and that he can’t roll in in 45 minutes and roll out? No, I don’t. I just, I know I says I take those and the average ones average out the tags you eat. I still have a 10 day average on killing an elk. Even with a 15 minute hunt. Some of them take me two weeks or I hunt two weeks and don’t kill. Yeah. There’s a Nevada tag that’s not punched. It’s your your name on it. That’s right. I threw it away ’cause I don’t wanna look at it. Did you throw it away? No you didn’t.

00:58:56:06 –> 01:00:07:10
I don’t know. It’s somewhere I keep tags. I have tags. A scrapbook of memories. I have tags from 1980s. They’re pretty cool. Oh, I do too. The ones you used to buy over the counter. Yeah. They hand wrote your stuff on there. Yeah. Those were the good days. Anyway, I don’t know. Well, Bronson, why don’t you here? Well one more change that was coming up. You know, it’s, it’s probably by the time you listen to this podcast, it, it’s probably too late to voice your opinion. But this, this is up in Alaska. The federal subsistence board is moving to shut down parts of Alaska up in units 23 and 26. Not for non-residents, but for non-local Alaska residents and non-residents as well to hunting for caribou, moose and game manage units. 23 and 26. You know, just claiming there’s a shortage of moose and caribou in these areas. They assert, I’ll read this. The councils is particularly concerned about the effect that transporters and non-local hunters keep in mind that can pee poop from Anchorage. ’cause nowhere’s close to Kota view in, in Alaska. So nowhere everywhere is a Russia. Of course they want that back. The Arctic circle. They want that back. Yeah. Should we dive right back into politics? No. Okay. Go ahead. Keep going. I think we purchased it.

01:00:07:11 –> 01:01:28:09
They’re, they’re afraid that they’re having the impact, the transporters and all that have and, and non-local hunters impacting the migration of caribou and believe that transport activity in 23 and 26 A may be delaying the caribou migration. Counsel hopes that this request would reduce the aircraft traffic creating an easier path for migrating caribou. Well, there’s a lot of evidence on there. I don’t have time to read it all about the, the current status of the western arctic caribou herd, you know, estimated 188,000 and how many, you know, are getting killed by non-local Alaska residents, which is on average about 212 caribou. So 212. Yes. 212. So just ways that, again, boards or governments or agencies or you know, people that have maybe different agendas that you’re not always reading about in a peta Yep. New news release or something like that are trying to shut down. So this could affect Yeah. Not only non-residents from going up there, you know, they already already shut down non-resident front and moose there. I I mean that’s rare on it, Aaron and I’ve drawn up there. But we’re talking about Alaska residents that are nons subsistence hunters, which, you know, you have to live within. I don’t remember what the geographical limitation is, but they have subsistence hunting that you can hunt in certain places up there, like for sheep and other things like that. Even in Ringle Saint Alaska National Park.

01:01:29:06 –> 01:02:45:27
The crazy part, this is just, this is Alaska the most unchartered, unpopulated place in the world. And we’re talking about, oh, we gotta limit stuff. Is that a call in? Just say Joe Biden’s funny Hunter. Hey Hunter, what’s up? How’s it, how’s the, how’s? Maybe they’re calling. How’s the refund? We got your check. How’s the Parmesan? Alright, well anyway, keep going. I mean, dude, hey, hey, if you’re, if you like Parmesan, you better buy it off the shelf ’cause it might not be on there. And that would be a life changing experience. What if you couldn’t find Parmesan? I would love if you were addicted to it. What’s a line? He’s addicted to it. What’s a line of Parmesan? Go for it these days. He’s addicted to it. Hey, whatever it takes. Hey, whatever it to keep going. Well, Bronson, I think part of this, there’s, I’m just probably not bringing up this point, is it’s a big deal to Alaska residents. Huge deal. It’s also a big deal for people that want to go up there as either self-guided or even guided to caribou or moose hunters. But our point is it doesn’t matter if it’s Utah, New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, Alaska very remote, Northern Alaska. You could see this happening. There’s honestly in Oregon and Washington where you’ve got some of these rams being taken any time of the year, giants, giants under the guise of subsistence, subsistence Native American harvest. Yeah.

01:02:46:00 –> 01:03:50:03
I mean it’s, and nobody talks about it because it’s taboo, you know, but it’s really frustrating to run a management program in some of these units when you’re having this take place. Yeah. In, in Elk in Oregon. There’s some significant problems and, and, and, and frustrations on the part of game managers. All right, keep going. No, that’s it. I just wanted to talk about that. That’s another example. Yeah. It’s probably all the ones that I scratched down. There’s more others. And by the time this podcast airs are in two weeks, we’ll be talking about something else that, that’ll be probably front burner, something happy stuff. I hope so. I hope I get a fortune cookie with something in it. I, I just want, it’s always positive and so I just don’t want it to be empty. Yeah. If it’s empty. That’s the that’ss. The only negative kind of ruined your day dude. It did, yeah. It took, took an effect. One thing I honestly, on a deadline day, he was looking for an omen. Yeah. That’s what needed. I, I wanna circle back to Wyatt ’cause he’s been a, you can’t get a word in edgewise with us three here too. We’re Sorry Wyatt. But Wyatt, you made a good point in, in going back to Utah Elk. You made a good point. As you, it’s hard to see the change. You actually like the rutt, you like hunting the rutt.

01:03:50:03 –> 01:04:46:00
And I’m just wondering with, with the change that is on the table, you know, we talked about maybe, maybe there’s an option to keep some of those rutt hunts and maybe rotate ’em through like Arizona does, where you would rotate units. Like we would have some early muzzle or early rifle hunts in varied limited quantities and allow people to apply for the once in a lifetime amazing elk experience here in Utah that they always dreamt of. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so maybe there’s some, maybe there’s a happy medium on all of that and not just changing everything blanket overnight. You know what I mean? Yeah, I would agree with a fix like that. I I think they could be a lot of change. I think the spike units could be rotated too to shut one down for a year. Let an age class of bulls. Yeah. So you don’t remember the same age class every year on one unit. Maybe tag cuts is the only answer to that too. Who, who knows. That’s what Paul said is he kinda kind of try it and see what happens. But I think Wyatt makes good points on that is we’ve had aggressive discussions in our office is, well maybe there is a, a happy medium.

01:04:46:06 –> 01:05:51:18
So somebody like for example, like Nevada, they, they have, you know, the 1 61, 1 64 1 seventies elk that has an early rifle rutt and it’s very tough to draw high elevation and you wanna hunt up, you don’t wanna go up there in November and no stuff, I mean, do an early hunt up on table. Yeah. Right. But they allow that for the people that want that experience. Right. But it’s tough to draw and you get to choose. Right. I get to choose. That would be my choice here in Utah. I get to choose that early ri rifle or muzzle rutt that has 10 total attacks, five total attacks versus 50 or a hundred in November or whatever. Yeah. October, November, whatever. And so, you know, there’s probably something along those lines. And I think, I think that was, you know, when you, you brought that up and I thought, yeah, there’s, there’s validity to that. Just like what you’re saying. Maybe you rotate the spike. Maybe we don’t have to eliminate it all together. Maybe, maybe there’s a way to continue to allow some of these bulls to live past past two. And I think it’s good too. And I think there’s room for it. I just know a lot of agencies don’t like a buffet of things as, as per se, you know, or to change things, you know, they like to be able to print out a book for two years.

01:05:51:27 –> 01:06:56:09
They like to not have changes like that all the time going around because then harder keep up hunter hunters get confused and they don’t which unit can I hunt this year? What unit can I not, you know. And so to me I’m just like, well if a guy wants to hunt, he can read the book and and educate himself better. But honestly, most guys want to get their deer tag off the shelf and go get grandpa’s rifle and go out and just shoot whatever they want. I I, I guess I want to finish the biology portion by saying we don’t have all the answers. We know everybody’s gonna be mad. We’re gonna be mad. But we have opinions. We actually don’t like change either. But for the better of the species, for the betterment of the species, I think we’re going to let some things go in certain cases, you know, that, that maybe would have a real impact. That, that’s probably the best way to put it. Yeah. Because things are tougher. We talked about the drought, we talked about current conditions, especially with deer. And they, they need to get it. They need a, they need to reprieve, they gotta get, but you can’t beat it. I, I think, like Josh said, you cannot beat a drought. No, you can’t beat it. You can’t beat it. You can cut tax to nothing. Go go try doing it in Nevada the last two years.

01:06:56:21 –> 01:08:07:09
Can you hunt harder and, and still get it out? No. A couple people like out of tens of thousands. Well, and one’s in our magazine, this issue we’re talking about Van Huley smashed the 2 0 5, but I mean four point, very rare, but shows that it can happen. What would that deer have been in what year? 2 0 6? No, two 16 plus two 20 or minus. Yeah. Yeah. Not minus. Pretty, pretty, pretty legit little props out there to Van Huey and the crew. But anyway, just, you know, anyway, awesome. But having said that, you’re right. It’s, you cannot beat a drought no matter what. You gotta roll with it. Droughts are bad. Look at the strip, look at it. I mean you just cannot beat it. And I know for a lot of you that live out east, that read our magazine and read annually and we start talking about the impact, it’s really hard to understand until you see it firsthand and see how animals that live on a landscape that don’t have any kind of, you know, consistent moisture. And obviously there’s no, most of ’em have zero foreign feed. Like, you know, a lot of the whitetail world, they have either food plots or crops, standing crops, whatever. These don’t, and they have a really hard time e outta living and body maintenance comes first, survival comes first. And when they’re having a hard time just surviving antlers are way on the back burner.

01:08:07:09 –> 01:09:23:25
Which I think, I think the good Lord should have made antlers come first. All right, well we wanna throw a shout out to St. James Blaine. St. James Properties. You can get ahold of him [email protected]. Super good people, as always, y’all know we’re really good fr friends with Blaine. I think he kills too many big mulder. But having said that, if you’re looking to buy or sell properties, he’s the guy he knows from a hunter’s perspective what you may be looking for. He also understands the tag allocation systems, the landowner tags that you may or may not be entitled to as a property owner. And that goes into you, you know, the, the value of the property. You may, some properties you can’t get tags on some you can. And I think Blaine understands all of that and the intricacies there and the systems and whatnot. So anyway, anybody that’s interested in selling or buying properties, give Blaine a holler. His phone number is (877) 354-7247. He’s got people that work under him as well. Very good company. We’ve worked with him for years and trust him. I had some money I’d be going through Blaine. I think it’s real funny that you, I spent it all on food storage. No, I’m not talking about but you’re calling somebody out for killing too many big meal Dear Carter. Well, I, I really think that’s ironic. I saved something to the rest of us.

01:09:23:27 –> 01:10:46:18
No, that’s the way it is in the entitled world today. It’s all about me. I’m, I don’t care. The rest of y’all don’t kill one. Let’s call leave more for me. That pot calling the kettle really, really black. That’s what I’m hearing. But anyway, pots and kettles. Here we go. That’s right. Alright, wanna give it also a shout out to Chest and Davis and the folks at Phone Scope and Pyro Putty been great supporters of ours here at Epic Outdoors. It’s getting to be that time Spring’s starting to come here. Scouting will be here within a few months and if you got a new phone or you broke your last phone scope case or whatever, or just need to upgrade it or you up upgraded your spotting scope or vinyls and you need something that will work where you’re, you just scoping, give him a call or check ’em [email protected]. Spelled P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P Also makers of pyro putty, which if you use a promo promotion code at checkout, you get a 10% discount. And that promo code is Epic. EPIC Epic [email protected]. P-Y-R-O-P-U-T-T So Bronson, I got a question for you. What was, what is so special about that pancake batter that you had to have? Oh my gosh. An alert on your phone and you bought freaking boxes and dang near a pallet of it. What is so cool about that? I just wanna know, Chris, first off, I’m assuming this gets cut.

01:10:46:18 –> 01:11:53:13
No, it’s, no it’s not getting cut. But if it doesn’t, if it doesn’t, here we go. 10 years. It lasts 10 years. Yes, that’s right. And I, and I’m done thinking about it. If you grab ba, if you get pancake mix in a bag or a box, it lasts about 18 months to two years. ’cause you got what oils in there and what gets in the boxes. Weevils, weevils. Weevils. Okay. So that’s what we’re talking about. Okay. Go ahead Judge. Also known as protein cooking. Eat ’em. Yeah. What other I just one other question. You don’t boil pancakes. Do you have any other current alerts on your phone? No. What products are you missing? That wasn’t even an alert. It wasn’t even an alert. Okay, Josh go ahead. I didn’t say let me know when I can buy pancake Don’t back. I was sitting there an alert came on your phone. It’s just interesting. Go ahead Josh. Yeah, we just wanna thank Hoyt Archery as well. Starting to maybe see one of those trickle in. Yeah, Archibald got his new one in the, in the middle the other day. Did he did. It’s almost time. Start shooting RX seven. Spring going Justin, get serious. Get Hoyt, get serious going. No, go to maybe. Really do have some awesome bows. I’m kind of waiting on one of those myself. Hopefully it comes in sometimes. Well weren’t, we’ve got a stack of them coming weren’t we?

01:11:53:19 –> 01:13:09:12
You weren’t fit 5 2 35 and chiseled. You, you could get the smaller one like Archibald got there installed. Need a big, big buck skin. Yeah. Whole line up up this year with the RX seven. Pretty awesome carbon bow. They also were, we got, yeah we got the fives last year. All of us. And then what now? Now you’re, you’re hearing from your buddies that are big time shooters that maybe we should have won. Well it looks at our boat like 1980 RX seven and I kind of feel like that now. I mean I can’t believe one year would make a difference but apparently it does. I mean you’ve got guys that aren’t even, haven’t even shot their RX five that are just trading ’em in blindly because of what the reviews are like. Exactly. Crazy. Right on. Okay, let’s keep moving forward boys. Yeah, we also wanna thank Vortex for all our optics needs. I guess probably got a Bronson bundle coming up. Yeah. Yeah. Bronson bundle coming up with Vortex there. Vortex. Phenomenal optics. Summer scouting coming up. Pretty awesome. Vortex makes a lot of great prop products. We cover ’em and we actually have ’em here in the office. We’ve got stacks of ’em, thus the bro and bundle. But back to Vortex, we’ve got all the razor and what else? Viper spotting scopes Diamond, but whatever you want. What do you got? 18 power bins. 12 power razors. Eighteens twelves, hds, fived rifle scopes.

01:13:09:14 –> 01:14:10:27
We got one of those brand new rifle scopes. We just got lhd. LHDs. Yeah. Four and a half to 22 by fifties. That came out about, I don’t wanna say within the last year, nine months to a year we got like a handful, five or six inch sold them real quick. What I thinks funny, funny is we haven’t gone it back and we back in think mills are, mills are the way to go. And, and from what I hear and I have one and I love it, but we can’t give the mills away at times. Everybody’s born and raised on the MOA huh? Well some, some people, people brains think differently. Carter Mills are like straight lined up in, in increments of one telescope, one through 10. Pretty easy, huh? All right, well anyway, it’s just all you line measures, it’s whatever your brain starts to wrap its head around. We all started at yards. We had to kinda leave that line to go a certain way. These new range finders, you just plug it in and it just tells you, it spits out a number on numbers a number, whether it’s a Miller or MA, most people don’t even know what that is. That’s what’s that unit. It’s a unit of measure. Just trying to think of it that way. Alright. Anyway, we also have Zes, we have stacks of sro. Stacks of Zes. Yeah.

01:14:10:29 –> 01:15:17:10
We’ve got all the swirl NLS in stock except for the twelves and we’re making major headway. We, we don’t got too many people left on a waiting list for those. And we have 10 by 40 twos, 10 by 30 twos, eights on the shelf. Also all the rangefinder binos, whether it be the Zeis victory rfs like a 3,200 dot coms ro 10 by 42 EL range. TAs, what about that new scope? Carter, you got one to try out too, but we got a couple of the zes. You’re talking the Haria, the Zeiss Haria. Oh yeah. So the harp awesome. I I hate to say it out loud, I’m gonna say it out loud. We were looking up on the mountain and there was a deck railing and there was slats. Okay, so there’s how many slats? I don’t know how many, but you could see ’em with perfection out of the haria. Josh, you looked through the S swirl. What’d you see? There were I think some slats there. That’s my point. The haria was UNB vocal. There was a crisp scope. You know one thing, it too, it’s got that fine focus adjustment on it too. And that might be, could be some of it, but it’s got But it was, it was, it was so clear. It was unbelievable. Finally. It was unbelievable. I just couldn’t believe, I couldn’t believe the quality and I thought it, somebody in the office ought to have one.

01:15:17:12 –> 01:16:14:29
So anyway, we do have a couple of those on the shelf. Broon, they’re, they’ve been really hard to get for months and we make a deal for the first guy that calls in with a Discover card. ’cause I haven’t seen one of those for a while. This, I love that. Number six. Okay, if you, if you have a Visa, a MasterCard of American Express talk to me. We’ll do a deal. If you use Discover, talk to card and I’m gonna cut you a deal, okay. For having a discover. You gotta support ’em. You never know. Do you have stock in Discover why we’re pushing that right now. I’m just saying with all the talk of change of currencies and things, I think we ought support discovery a little bit because they’re the least thought of species. Never. We’re not tracking crypto cash. Cash is king. If you have cash, call me. I’ll take it. We left. Whatever. Yeah, that’s true. I’ll take you, me and Uncle Ben will get along just fine. Alright, well let’s call it a date’s Friday afternoon. In the words of the late Bob Ross. There’s, there’s an artist hidden in the bottom of every one of us. Come on. I don’t remember that saying. Well, all right, we’ll leave it on that note and have a great weekend everybody. At Epic Outdoors, we help you reach your hunting dreams.

01:16:15:02 –> 01:16:35:17
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