Our Take on Points Systems. Keeping the Glass Half Full. In this episode we go through things we like and things we would change about each state and thier application process and points systems. We also talk a lot about trying our best to keep a glass half full mentality amid all the negative in the world. We talk with a friend, Clint Lindstrom, and get his take on it all as well.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

Watching the world change right before our

Eyes. What’s the perfect point system.

I like point systems. I don’t like a hundred percent preference point system like Colorado,

Anything to do with Western big games.

Welcome to the epic outdoors

Podcast. Powered by Underarmour.

Hey everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Chris Peterson coming out from Southern Utah. Chris. Nice to have you back. John was at the keyboard. It was a little odd. I’m not going to lie.

We hope it came.

One of the older we’d be, well, the older we get, we don’t like change.

Sorry. I hit publish. So I got to listen to it and make sure everything was okay.


A little late for that.

You had to add the front and back and do the Chris, you know, flip the Chris touch on it, but jeeze, it just, it’s just different. I liked it for that

Different kind of like, you know, brushing your teeth with someone else’s toothbrush.

No, it’s not. That’s gross. Come on. Where did you get that? Anyway? So while we’re on the subject, Chris, real quick, let’s just throw a little shout out, Chris. You’ve got a lot of music out there. Where can they find you?

Oh, anywhere you find music, Spotify, iTunes, apple music, pretty much all that.

The country festival and fair time, or you got this, you’re moving. You’re going to be around the west.

Some stuff up in Montana and Wyoming.

You’re keeping your beard.

Well, I think it’s going to come on. I still haven’t found my Clippers.


We moved all our house.

In the immortal words, what are you? Good friend of ours. They make more Clippers everyday.

That’s what my wife told me this morning. She’s like, oh, I think it’s time just to buy some Clippers,

You know? And just taking scissors to it every week and just trimming it kinda no.

So I’d every once in a while, when it got real bad, I’d go to my mom’s house and borrow some Clifford’s. I can’t find

Mine. I moms are good for the rest of your life. You know what I mean? They always want a mother hen you forever

Just had mother’s day, week


Yeah. To ago. Hopefully everybody treated mama.

Right? Well,

Yeah, it was hunting seasons come. And then do you want to treat mama right prior?

That’s right. Hey Bronson. I like it. I like where you’re headed with that, but moving right along. Let’s let’s so there was some, a

Long, what do you mean father’s day’s coming up.

Let’s talk about something important. No, I wasn’t thinking that, but you know, there’s been a lot of, so today, you know, Wyoming Elk draw results came out. We’ve had a lot of,

Lot of opportunities to be happy, but, but we aren’t.

Well, you you’re not why, why are you so mad? Let’s let’s have a little counseling session.


Let’s just think about some things that might help Adam, as it goes ahead and tells us this terrible story.

I have no terrible story. My life. I, I, I’m proud of being American and I’m have a very happy life, but sometimes you want more in the form of tax. That’s what I’m talking about. And,

And didn’t, you have to change some flights with just makes you Henri.

Yeah. And that was just fresh, like 20, 30 minutes ago

About this able to fly, you know, some good things.

I don’t have to ride


A horse to Alaska. I don’t have to do that

Sometimes Adam and I have to check each other a little bit and go, okay, those are those. Those are some good problems to have. It could be a lot worse. Right. So speaking of which let’s, let’s talk about w kind of that subject we were talking about a little bit. What


Of it? Well, being angry is an angry place. Right? Okay. And then we have schools angry. They want to cut us out of, you know, some non-resident tags, Wyoming’s angry. They want to cut us out. Colorado’s angry. They want to cut us out.

You know, every state we’ve talked about it a lot on the podcast that states since like one little one or two states started talking and now everybody feels like they’re open in every program within their whole system. I read today that somewhere back east there’s some elephant and a zoo and a one acre zoo. Well, being there, there’s a group suing to contend that the elephant has feelings like a person and that they should be treated as a person and refer released from prison. And it’s on the front page of her salt lake news.

Come on.

Nope. I, I read it today because

Watch less news.

That’s right. I don’t watch it, but I, I do jump on there to watch the weather. Cause I’m pray that it’s going to rain. And when you go to the home page, what do you see? You see the homepage? Well,

Whatever’s really important. Like elephants,

I need to reinitiate get it right onto the weather only and bypass it. So, but you’re back to your point, man. There’s a lot of angst and we’re not talking about, I mean, it’s probably worldwide, but man, there’s a lot of, whether it’s COVID frenzy stuff that was caused by it, that people, you know, it’s just a,

There’s a lot of from COVID people were locked in their house and told what to do and told what they could and couldn’t do. And, and, and weren’t we a little bit anxious about that. Chris, were you anxious when they were trying to keep you from going out and enjoying the Hills on your


Nobody said leave don’t gas up, whatever it was trying times, right?

Yeah. It just seems like, yeah. The last two years that’s been when this has really hit the next level and it’s time to look at the glass half full. And I don’t know everybody’s in a different situation life, but man, try to look at the glass half full because things usually can be worse. And your neighbor probably isn’t as bad as you you’re thinking of.

Well, I don’t know. Maybe not, but maybe

I talk in generalities. I’m not pertained.

And I’ve got these crazy Nick. Hey, Hey, did you really have to bring that up?

I didn’t bring it up for your benefit. I’m talking to our listeners. If that hit home, maybe we should tap out on this topic and move along.

Oh geez. I’ve got a dandy. Go ahead. I just read this.

Sure. Headline must decide if an elephant is a person.

Well, what we have is people are, people are saying that they’re cats and dogs and we’re putting litter boxes, schools, and school bathrooms. So I would say if they’re cats that elephants probably human, and this goes back to the angriness Bronson, it goes back to it.

Every faction of whatever ideology or what your thinking is, gains traction. And people have this platform. It’s the world that you’ve got social media. Now you don’t, and it’s just, people are venting epically.

So I just want to invite people out there to intentional parent. And when you see this going on, tell your kid it’s not normal. And that the, the, I don’t even want to say the word Biden. So I’m not going to say the word Biden, but that this air, this timeframe, time and history, isn’t normal. And it’s okay to stand there for what’s right. How about that?


Like it. You like it?


You’re done with it.


It’s over.

Yeah. I don’t.

You don’t want to talk about litter boxes.

Nope. They’re stinky.

Chris, do you have anything to add? I’m good. Let’s move on. But anyway, having said all of this, we’ve got fires and crazy places. New Mexico is going to burn down. We’ve got forest service closures Bronson till December 30,

Basically the Northern half of the state on forest service. You’re not their closed as of tomorrow, may 19,

But the BLM healer who knows what else is next? It’s too dry.

There’s a whole lot coming down the pipe for what that’s going to mean for hunters, with tags, some very valid issues or, you know, whatever

Side is the upside. Okay. We’re going to look at this half full. It’s going to teach them a lesson for screwing around with an honors and quotas habitat.

Well, you’re thinking that that’s a direct result.

Well, I just, I’ve got, I’m a little anxious over, over them wanting to change a bunch of things and just watching, watching the world change right before our eyes, especially, you know, when it deals to hunting down there, the positive side is, is, you know, is

Okay. You know, I’ve got an idea for the day for the rest of the day. Cause we didn’t really have a firm outline today.

Well, as,

But let’s go,

Let’s go get something

Wishlist. And we’ll go state by state. If we were king of Utah, king of New Mexico, whatever, what would we change? But

One thing I want to change one thing. Okay. But

Let’s start the first thing. And every state, since we get to look at glass, half full is a positive in this state. What do you like about California?

I like it,


I like the beaches. When I went out, we went, I felt

Pretty good.

We went on a family little vacation years ago and it was awesome. It was awesome. Okay.

I’m a Lakers fan, but we’re talking, hunting. It doesn’t matter about their sports teams and beaches

Before we started what I would like what I would like if I were king for a moment is just that the states appreciate the non-resident.

Yeah. And we could have come prepared here. We realize we’re a, non-resident in 90% of the states and we live in one

Store. You whoever’s listening.

Right. So we understand that non-resident should not dictate policy, procedure, all of that in every state, but we also have to point out and if we need to, we will and shall and Canon easily do point out the percentage of non-residents of the budget in these states that come from non-residents, it’s almost in every case, the majority it’s 60 to 70.

No, I, I think in large part it’s I’m hearing the 72 to 78% in, and I’ve got some states, we’re friends with some of these guys and they won’t tell me.

And I think the only reason we’re talking about that is some of these states, and this is actually how I feel are on the Razor’s edge, in my mind of losing an enormous amount of income by deceit, by alienating non-residents. And so if you keep it too expensive and the odds are so limited, it’s just like you play in the Potter Powerball. Now there may be some, I play it every time I go to get gas. Okay. I don’t cause what are your odds for the Powerball? Jason

Million to

Two to three, 10, a hundred million.

200 million. Okay.

So do you feel like you got a chance? No.

Okay. So I don’t play it

And that’s, that’s on the extreme, but my point being, if you’re sending out money for you and your kids in these states and that cost keeps going up and the pie keeps shrinking of what you can even draw pretty soon, it’s like, it’s, is it worth continuing? Or do you just take that money and say, Hey, I’m going to go somewhere. I can actually buy something with that money and go to,

I feel really good about our membership. Then the tax we’ve drawn, Utah alone, we drew a large portion of the one non-resident tag available in a lot of different hunts, the special hunts in the state. How awesome is that? It’s pretty awesome to be a part of having said that Bronson, they raise desert sheep tags, and we cut non resident quotas. And I’m not saying, I’m just saying, let’s



And oversight. And it’s an oversight. We bring it to their attention. They’re like, oh yeah, I guess you’re taxed during, in the seventies. And they’re only given five tax went up in units and you cut non-resident tags.

And the reason why they got away with it is because there is no real formula.

There’s no, there’s no law and rule in Utah that allocates any percentage to non-residents

They hear about.

But there’s nothing that holds them to us. Therefore there’s no structure on the high, how a formula spits out the tag, just like New Mexico, 84, 10 and six. There’s an actual formula on Darryl can handle the spits out there,

But they want him to do it unit by unit or hunt by hunt. Let’s call it on sheep. And that’s when, and that’s when we are looking at not getting any non-resident tags and then they’re going to lose some revenue.

3000 a pop and

Yeah, and we’re talking the same thing in Wyoming. When you, when you cut it down and you end up in a random situation with one or two tags or whatever for non-residents total, you’re going to lose some revenue. And, and, and again, it’s not all about revenue. I hate that. It’s about revenue,

But it isn’t, these agencies are. And if your state makes 60 to 75% of its revenue,

70 or 78

Or eight from non-residents and that cuts dramatically, you’re the ones to get into, have to front the bills residency,

And they should. And they should honestly, resident tags. There’s some states that are 30 bucks, 35 bucks, honestly. Where, what are you talking about? Like re raise your rates, you know, Colorado raises them every single year or potentially could based on a, on a consumer price

Index and the Denver post that’s right.

That’s right. That’s right. It is weird, but they don’t have to have this continuing conversation or you’re a little bit, yeah. We’ve had the same price for 10 years. Why why’d you have that? Let’s let’s fix that. I, I think you should re raise him. You know, I don’t like raised fees, but at the same time, you’re going to have to front some of the, you know, the brunt of the, of the cost on some of these things. If you’re going to change non-resident

Residents, when you initially hear that, you might say, oh great, we’re going to get more tags. And that is true. There is true to that. And we are advocates of residents getting,

But how many more Bronson,

More, how many more,

How many more tags are the residents going to get? You’re right.

We’re talking on the sheep on the moose sheep, goat and bison, Wyoming. It’s not that

Why Wyoming gives over the counter general and a finite number on non-residents. And they’re bursting at the seams on the general elk. Y Y Y how many more can you give a resonant? They get them over the

Counter. They already get them

Right. Give them to make them start killing cows. Like, you know, they killed doze back east or whatever, you know, to help with court car collisions. I don’t know. I’m just saying, you know, let’s say you really non, non residents are getting too much. Okay. You take, you take 5% from us 2%, 5%, 10% to make it and to make it equitable or whatever, to make it seem more fair. What did you really gain? You change the restaurants.

What are you going to gain? Well, you’re going to get some more tags, but your agency may go broke and you are the month’s going to be the one fitting the bill.

What I find interesting Wyoming guys. They hate you tarts. They call them you too. Right? They hate them. They hate the Utah license place at the trail heads. They’re over the counter. That’s right. They’re over the counter. And we’re very finite and region G for example, that’s a prime example. So just interesting. So I want to know, I just wanted to start it off with, let’s just appreciate the non-risk us two here in Utah. Let’s just appreciate the non-resident a little bit.

We’re all non-resident somewhere. And I realize we’re Don residents more places than we are residents. So it might come across while you’re just fighting for the non-resident way. Well, Hey, in some regards we are, but in some regards, there has to be a balance. And, and what, what I think Jason, I’ve talked about this very frankly, you may have picked up about, about it in the magazine, even the last year, till we’re getting a lot more brutally honest on our takes on some of these states. And every month when we produce a new magazine, meaning it’s not all butterflies, rainbows, Carter loves. When I say that, it’s, it’s easy to just to talk about how you apply in a state and say, I apply, apply five, get lucky, give us a call. And that can roll off your tongue, but it’s getting a lot more we’re we’re trying to we’re, we’re pointing out a lot more of the increasing in cost and it’s no longer justifiable to apply. And it’s hard to hard to even start applying all of those types of things. And that’s, I guess the point that we’re getting, I think there’s some, some serious people are gonna have to really look at their application dollars moving forward, even more so as Pizer, shrinking tag fees and application fees and hunting license. Non-refundable hunting licenses.

I’m in Nevada over grand. Yeah. I love, I love Nevada and I’ll never quit.

Four or five people committed with 10 plus points in Nevada and a famine. Yeah. You’re in at 200 plus books.

I don’t really start thinking about some things. And I think something that could help them would be go to two choices instead of five valid choices, help give us something, give us better drawing odds. You know what I mean? Which would help the residents too. All right. So are we playing this

Gabriel plan? Should we just start on the left coast and go down and Burkey? So just get rid of quickly.

What did we name a positive? I don’t know why we have to start

There. Okay, well, let’s

Leave upon.

Where do you want to start Texas? Everything’s bigger down there. What do you want to start off? They have one desert sheep tag.

Let’s start with California. Just trying to think of something positive school first.

Okay. The positive thing I like about California as they get their dry results out in like 10 days, they’re like, Hey, I want to use them as an example. And Nevada to these other states to get with the program. Some of these other states that take 2, 3, 4 months, if

You’re a hundred percent right. Get,

If California can get their dry results out in 10 to 14 years,

You just pounded the table. And people heard that. Yeah.

All right. That’s because my drinks empty. That’s the only reason you heard rattle it’s about dry.

Okay. I’ve got mine about that.

But if I was, if I was a king, I’d give, Hey, you give 200 and something, antelope tags in the state and only one can go to a non-resident. You could only do one up to one elk.

And that means give

Us a little bit,

Okay. So that’s the you’re jumping into the negative. Go ahead. Keep on. Well, what I like,

Hey, I don’t even apply there. And I will say that

What I like

The cost of a mission.

What I like is they run the random draw first. And so on sheep, you have a chance,

Hey, this

Game, what I hate is the drawing odds. But I w another thing that I like is they get big sheep, dude. They do. And California’s impressive. Some of the elk we’ve obviously you go look at our magazine

At Roosevelt’s like today,

And we got a video of it. You know, our trash in the trash. And somebody is amazing for Bush, just crushing it, you know, in a colored cow off. And so there’s some weird

The hunter and there, he, I can’t remember his name, but he talked about the locals. All thanked you for killing the cause. He was a trash


Lilac bushes.

There’s some pretty cool stuff in California. And there, there are some undiscovered. How about the whites years ago?

Hey, oh, here we go. A hundred sheep. Wow.

Never knew that there’s places. There’s other places like it. Yeah,


Is. There is. And so

Here’s an example of mainly for budgetary reasons, they weren’t flying service. They didn’t even know until you get a few hikers or ever started telling, Hey, we’re seeing a bunch of shit.

One other thing I hate you have to request a refund for like the dare tag. Now, remember you have to request it. Why, why, why do you have to request it? You so people that don’t request it and you lose track. Right? We’re all busy. You’ve got a lot of businessmen we’re talking to that are members. And you’re busy if you don’t like,

And they charge you the D the resident or the deer permit fee cost. And you only get the difference of that and the resident cost, but you got to ask them for that. You gotta

Ask them

For that. Yeah.

I think it’s

Wrong. Yeah.

I mean, all right. So we’re,

I’m getting some out of the way.

I struggle. I struggle with the outfitter be positive. Okay. Positive. Well, we’ve killed the sheep. They’re

Random. I liked, I liked the random sometimes. However I was talking. So let’s just say we like the random sheep. Okay, great. I like the random goat, whatever. Let’s just, but I was talking to a very good client of ours. And he’s like, you know, everybody’s complaining about point systems and, but Utah has a random, and the end, Utah has a point system, right. And the random and the point system, you know, helps when the random, but he says, everybody wants to do away with the point system, do away with it and have your neighbor draw five times in a row. And you don’t draw for the next 30 years, nor are you getting any closer


Ever. So there is, you do have to be careful what you wish for. Point systems go away. things, change, whatever. Are you really happy?

Maybe when we’re all done with this little Western state wrap-up we can talk about the perfect place.

Well, okay. So put that on your skin. Put that on your little yellow sticky. And so, and so why did I lose my train of thought? So while, oh, so Oregon. Yes. So anyway, they do have, they do have a, the random and you and

I both and go nuts.

Okay. So back to I got it, I got it. Okay. My theory is just that the millennial age or plus, or minus, right? Plus plus five years, minus 10 years, whatever the millennial age ish,

Where you define it, a

Millennial, I don’t know what it is actually.

How old are you? If you’re a millennial exact, like, what does that does that mean? You’re born

Like 30 to 40 Chris, the baby boomers. You’re not a baby.

It would mean if you’re born in 2000 or later, that’s the new millennium, but that’s not,

That’s 22 years old. It’s a more like a Tony. Yeah. So anyway, but I think it’s a gratifying now and you and I have 20, 25 plus points in some places it’s taken us 25 years to get to there. Okay. But they’re looking at it saying, where’s

My chance.

Immediate gratification. I have a cell phone. I can get people to reply on text immediately. I get my emails immediately. I want my tags immediately. I don’t want to wait 25 years. Like they waited, but they don’t think about that. We waited 25. They just want it. And they’re mad and they’re angry. And the point systems don’t work and it’s tougher than ever. And that’s true. We’ve been waiting 20, 25 years. I’m just saying, you know, we, we, we, we played the game for a long time. And, and so anyway, having said that there’s some points. I like Idaho. I liked some of these randoms and you and I both partaken in the random, up there in Oregon. The, the what I don’t like, I don’t like the dirt drawing odds. I don’t like the very

Three to

5% limited, three to five



Low is 5%. And then

Split in the quarters with Outfitters. If you want to hire an outfitter, go hire one. If an outfitter does an amazing job, he’s going to get, he’s going to be busy. If he doesn’t do a great job, he might not be.

But that’s the same thing with a doctor or a guy preparement on your truck or whatever. It’s just w I don’t in general, I have a problem with those two. And Hey, you’ve been a guide in the past. I’m one. I don’t like the, it’s almost like subsidy. It’s almost like subsidy. Hey, we’re going to keep your business. Here’s tax-free sheet.

And I don’t want to say that subsidy, but it just feels subsidized. And it is same thing with like the wilderness and Wyoming, but we’ll go to Wyman. So let’s stay in Oregon, just the outfitter tags. Some of those, some of those Bronson, we don’t have a single in a draw

Because you get 5% of the deer and elk or deer and elk tags. And then of that, half of them go to Outfitters. So if there’s 20 tags, you get a one tag every other year on the,

And, and at times the outfitter doesn’t sell it. It goes back in the draw. Right. But they’re always taken. So anyway, having said that they have some amazing Mueller, genetics, I cannot believe the positive, positive. I can’t believe the number of 200 inch deer that are taken in Oregon, that people don’t even hear

Them despite their managed and despite their management philosophy.

Yeah. I’m shocked. I’m, I’m blown away every year. And of course, when you, when we talk about it, it’s, it’s somewhat dismal because the regular draws are dismal. They don’t produce, but the private land up there harbors some absolute monsters on easy to draw texts, but you’re never going to get on there. I’m just saying,

And, and for the money you spend for a hunting license, it’s much more expensive now than it used to be back when we drew like $74 hunting license, plus $8 app,

But Bronson,

Double, or more of that.

So the wages was still

Random. So

We were broke

Or whatever. If you had the compelling,

What did you make yearly salary when you drew well, let’s click it back to

You and ban me.

I wasn’t, I wasn’t, it was the company that was in your family. Yeah. So, but when I drew 2004, meet me too, I’m saying 30, 35 K

In that bro. That’s what I started. That’s

Not my wife too. She brought in 18 or something like that. Teaching, you know, doing something anyway, I’m just saying there, there was tough times then. And we, and we found the money to apply.

If they had more deer, elk and antelope in, it’s nice to have random sheep and goat tags. The odds are still pretty tough, but if they had more, the biggest problem I have is the cost to tag availability. And that goes back to the three and 5% deer off an antelope is of whack with what you got to pay to even play the game. So,

Anyway, having said all that, I do kind of like I do kind of like Oregon, it’s just a long drive. Yeah. I mean, and we, we bought froze to death on your sheep up

To Taos September. And it was

Called. I remember laying on the bed of the truck. Remember had the double full Wheeler rack and we were sleeping under it. I have a freaking frozen bucket


But what you rarely want to go to Washington next year?

No. Okay. I’m just going to say the positive. What’s the positive. And then I’ll say quick, negative and then


They’ve got, they got a good quality.

You could, you know, they got Clem, Clem seasons.

I’m digging. Yeah. I always get the razor clam emails from him. I don’t even, I mean, I’ve seen a, it, I had to look them up once. So I knew what they were. I can’t think of the problem. I



They’ve got a few big animals

For elk and deer. You have to buy a general hunting, a general elk and deer tag, or you’re talking four or 500 bucks a piece. Steven play the deer note draw. I don’t like that. I think that’s,

We don’t even do the general in states that are close to us at times.


Yeah. So anyway,

Everybody up there, I know you’re laughing. Sarah, stay out. Okay. We are so moving on

And that’s $110 for every sheep, every goat, every moose application, you know what I mean? And your odds are one in 2000 or one in whatever. I mean, go look

25, 6 plus years squared. Sorry. Let’s move on to Idaho. We’ll just start moving us. I’ve got to stay next to him just because

What I like about Idaho is it? I like the random draw at times. Have, have I drawn amazing tags? I’ve drawn a couple

Mid to upper tier. Yeah. Probably not lower.

The frustrating thing is, I mean, going back to the choices, I mean one valid choice. So sometimes like I drew like a 42 tag for dairy, you know, and I killed like a 32 inch weak fork buck, big old freaking Nisai guards. Chris, you are with me on that one that was called we frozen. The trailer

Was cold.

We froze the trailers. Rock solid, wherever that

Was your water. Even

Water negative digits, for sure. In the middle of nowhere. Hey, those are good times. But anyway, never have drawn like a forty-five Bennett mountains or, you know, for deer or 54 elk. Can I apply for 54? Pretty religiously, never drawn. You know, she go have drawn moose. How about November season?

Pretty much.

Yeah. You know, and I, and I drew and you didn’t have,

You know, what’s great is I got, I quenched. That was 2007. And I got to tag along with Jason and quench. My thirst for hunting Shiraz is shy, risk

Points in Montana. And you continue to apply

To me only place I do. In other words, that did it for me. Yeah. I was. I, I touched one

That wasn’t, Hey, we were young and aggressive and this moose quarters fricking heavy dude, jeez, straight anyway.

Oh, I, I like, I like the randomness and it’s hard back a minute ago when I said, Hey, what’s the perfect point system. I like that states are different. I really do. I like that. There’s some that there’s predictability. And I liked the, some like Idaho that when you have a late application period, or if you decide to do sheep, it’s completely random. You’ve got a good, a chance as anybody for the first time applying. I like that about Idaho because I mainly use Idaho as a I’ll call it a secondary. I never base my plans around Idaho. So I go as aggressive or less aggressive based on what I would have in my schedule this year. I’m going to be playing tonight at home. I did. I skipped the sheep cause I had to be gone from

The seasons. Do you like the fact that if you do sheep or goat or moose, you can’t do anything else in the state?

I don’t mind it from an odd standpoint. I think for the moose, sheep and goat, obviously the resident odds are the best of any state, anywhere, period. It’s not even up for debate. The resident sheep motion goes true. Non-residents

Oh wait, wait, what about OTC? Montana chic.

Well, that’s not an odd. That is you write the check and you go on cheesy.

You need to be a hundred percent transparent. Well, go

Ahead. So I, I like it for that. What do I don’t like about it? It’s gotten more expensive. We’ve we’ve done the math. If you apply and you buy a hundred,

It really frustrates me is they raised our rates because they went to caps. Non-resident cats. Yeah. They’re general OTC with caps for non-resident. And so, because they, they restricted us. They raised our rates like up through the roof and didn’t touch residents. Yeah.

If you apply for deer, deer and elk, either hunting, license, applying for deer and elk, you’re going to play 225 ish dollars and don’t get any points for it. If you add sheep to that, that you P you front the tag fee, they keep your convenience fee off. It it’s like 325 bucks and you don’t get a point. So it’s the one thing I don’t like is I think their costs have greatly outpaced maybe what their

Non-resident costs or risks, but the residents are cheaper, cheaper. I mean, and I just think, and they’re always complaining about budgets. Raise the raise, raise the residents.

Like they always

Are like, they, they have, there’s a lot of room there to bring their tags up to what the,

I love that you could hunt Wolf. And I love it.

Up there. It’s a thrill to rush it’s

Wolf set up. It’s

Enriched my life. Those sites they have tell me they haven’t changed your life.

I take pride and kill it. It’s it’s a trophy.

It, I it’s.

But what’s amazing is I wouldn’t, they’re hunting a very aggressive there’s bounties.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

And, and you know, they’re actually,,

They’re getting input back on the ground.

Is there a return they’re getting returned and it does feel like there’s a, we’re making, we’re making some headway, but yeah, we like Idaho. It’s treated us well. We’ve hunted it hard. And,

But on the high side, that’s my only, that’s my biggest implant. Getting, getting up there in tech or non-tech fees, application. Non-refundable application fees for what you get and no points.

Yeah. Yeah. I, and I just, I just think the, you know, the OTC with caps, I just, I don’t know. I guess I don’t know why it rubs me, rubbed me a little bit. And then

You’re still, you mean? Cause you’re still so in residence on unlimited.

Oh yeah. It just, and for now for next to nothing. And I’m not saying that everybody should be gouged. Just keep up with the times. That’s all your wages have increased. They just have, and so anyway, but take it out on the non res and didn’t, don’t appreciate them. That’s fine. Whatever. So, all right. Let’s move right along. Which state we at

Nevada let’s try and about it.

I love Nevada. Yeah, I do. I

Love about it.

Just the memories.

You love

Chris, we got good memories. Chris killed a freaking giant don’t isn’t the memories like that’s, what’s the best thing.

When you get a tag in Nevada, they don’t manage for much average. Then in a few places you could say for deer, they average a little bit more for opportunity in average, but they have scarcer resources, be scarcer, drier, more scarce. How is that? Resources, whatever, fewer resources. I don’t know.

They keep

Going. They have to try to make more of less. How that’s another way.

What I like is to Jack, who he said it best two years ago on a podcast, he said, we like to produce a quality product. And the customer, the hunter is our customer.

I mean that mentality. I think

He actually kind of revolutionized that a little bit. It seems like a lot of the states are taken on a little bit more of their customer. Not somebody we’re just out to catch poaching or on some little tweaky, little weird law and make an example out of them. It has been state pitted against hunter a bit. Yeah.

And they have spills like Ben, the trend-setter on that and case in point their results. Their deadline was the 10th of May. That was like, I dunno, a few days ago, their results are the 20th of May at 6:00 PM. They moved it up from midnight madness to 6:00 PM on a Friday to make it happy

Venture begin, you know? And they want it. They want to be a part of you. Now, what other

State gives to


Chris, at the beep right there

At craps

Craps about that. No, I can’t think

Of one. They don’t care about


They don’t care about barbecues.

Awesome. Go apply for Nevada. Oh. And their system compared to some of the other states smooth. And if you mess up or want to change your mind free free. What I, what I can’t get over is all the other states when you apply, okay, you apply. Let’s say the deadline’s June 1st. I’m making that up and you apply May 1st, but your something changes or you made a mistake and you can’t change that. But if you’re a procrastinator, you can apply your application on June 1st. And you’re fine. Why can’t from May 1st to June 1st, you changed your freaking application. The application period is open. Every state should be there

To plug and play. It’s

Not like it’s all on paper anymore. It’s true. You’re not going to have to pull him again

Again, it’s because they hate us. It feels like the states hate us. Those states hate us. Not just non-residents they just say, Hey laughter. If you live, feels like they hate happy.

If you let anybody apply up until a certain day, you should be able to amend your application up until that day. That’s just this day and age of computers and in and out, and you check in your don’t even check out, you just switch. What’s wrong with that? How hard is it?


Well, you taught being set in stone. So early, so early. And you know, what’s nice is if you’re gonna, if you’re going to have us in there looking at changing it and we’ll see how big of a difference it makes. But if you’re gonna, you know, have it to where the draw results come out middle to end of may, whatever, you know, for any state we’re talking about. Yeah. Then bring it up. Your point is, is start, let us apply. Open up the app period, April one or April 15 or whatever don’t Hey, don’t hold on to our money or make us front the money. So, you know, in some states or whatever so early, and, and then also there’s planning that takes place. And so some states come out early and if you’ve dropped Arizona elk or whatever, it might make a difference on what I apply in other states. Right. And so that’s your point is no matter what Utah is going to be somewhat late because of the quota setting and different things. But don’t be so early because we’ve got other states we’re working with too,

Such a pet peeve for me. It’s the 21st century. Like Chris said, there’s almost, no, I don’t want to say no paper apps there. I I’m going off memory. It’s over the era of paper apps is over. They don’t have to

Put them on paper app.

I don’t okay. You can’t. I, I can’t, to my knowledge, I can’t somewhere.

Maybe somewhere around

There. Yeah. Well, I’m talking to a state funded thing. So we, if states can turn their draws around and I know it’s going to be, Hey, well we have a lot. Here’s our numbers in Colorado. Here’s our numbers in Utah. We have way more apps to process. There is some truth to that. I don’t, I’m not pretending that, Hey, California’s numbers then get out 10 days or in Nevada is get out in 10 days. So should everybody else. I’m not that naive to think that that’s the case, but it is a push of a button. It is electronic. It is, you know, number rankings. You can do a long time. You can do a lot better. Montana’s quick. So the one thing I, okay, so in Nevada, the one thing,

But th th th they are expensive. And we talked about that. But, but Adam, by choice, my kids are really, I mean, the non-resident hunting license fee for a kid, 15 bucks.

Oh yeah. But then once they hit 18, you can swallow.

Right. But you don’t have to buy it. No, you can have them in the drawer.

They didn’t want their six to eight points or however many they’ve accumulated from 12 to 18 and six points, whatever that is. And

You may or may not have done that. I may or may not have done that. I’m just saying, I want my kids in, but at times it’s maybe not worth it. Right.

Got a lot of add ons. You can add PIW the silver states. And I know I can not do those

And you cannot not do them. Those are just opportunities, but you can not do them. Did you do? Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. And that’s by choice. So we get mad. Ah, I got a grant in my money, but that was by choice. I mean, I could have, you know, streamlined my app a bit and save some money.

I w I don’t like, and this has nothing to do with the game. And fish or department of wildlife is Nevada can be very volatile from year to year in the mule deer world. I don’t like the volatility is

Bronson. that? They’re in such a drought. It’s, it’s eerie parable, drought,

But I’m just talking. I don’t like the volatility from year to year and mule deer hunting in Nevada.

I don’t like it. And you know, what’s amazing. You know, what trail cameras did for us prove, prove it. Oh yeah. It proved the drought. You got specific deer, a torn ear, whatever, you know, you got deer

200 to two 10, the next year. He was like one 60 on the same. There’s like 10 deer on one water. You knows the buck splits are blind in one eye. And he’s just one 60.

And so it proved the effect that drought can have over there. And, and it’s, and it’s drought sensitive and we’re in a drought and it’s still, it’s no fun. Right. And that’s what I’m talking about with memories. Like we know when the good years are there, we’re glad we have the points because when there’s a good year out there, it’s awesome. Be livable. So

Where do you want to go? We’re working east. You pick

Might as well do Arizona. So I don’t want to Utah. Yeah.

How about Arizona? What do you want? The Paula positives is I would, I would say similar to Nevada for the most part. If you draw tag in Arizona, it is, it is a great tag. Now there’s a very few exceptions, but when it comes to antelope off the charts, yeah. It’s like drawn a sheep tag in terms of odds, but Hey, let’s see,

87 inches and you’ve killed a three fifties bull and about 45 minutes.

Yeah. Thanks. And you’ve killed some. Yeah. And dear, I’m waiting for my time, but Hey, you call the two 70 plus, but how about,

Well, what I, what I don’t like, what I don’t like is I don’t draft in enough. No,

That is the downside. The odds are worse than like Nevada has collective compared to Arizona. When I would say quality meal, their tax they’re much lower in Arizona. The, the ceiling is way higher than some of the strip Kaibab Northern stuff is awesome. But collect that’s that’s what a thousand tax or less elk you’ve got the option to go November. I don’t normally do that in November. I’m either going to go arch. I’m usually going to archery and they’re tough to get,

They have options. That’s the thing that we call them skews. You know what I mean? It spreads everybody out to two choices. Really?

The ladder, you mean like the November, if you want to archery hunting elk in November, you mean, why’d you go there

Every time I say it, I didn’t like it. I didn’t, I didn’t enjoy it. And we got guys that apply for it because I did it.

I think that the fact that you went there and once you’re hiding something,

And I know there was big,

Trust me, he’s not applied. I hear about, I shared an office and he’s not holding back.

Sometimes you can’t make it happen. And that one was a little bit different.

There’s off


Out here. And I

Chose to hunt in an area that was a little bit tougher. I mean, I’ve hunted Coues deer there. And I thought this would be a great archery hunt. And it was, but he didn’t go there. I should have. And it’s within the same unit. I’m just saying like, you know, I chose because I wanted to hunt the biggest bulls in the end. The biggest bulls were not stackable with Bo

Let’s talk about this.

That’s awesome.

Great. If you can draw, Hey, you’ve drawn one. I’ve had another one of my good friends have drawn


Recently in the last three years. Yeah. But let’s talk about some problems. Okay. The fact that they’re drawing, they’re one of the states that you apply and if you screw up, you’re done. And then luckily they added the point guard and that’s a

Point guard point guard so much. They double it. Yeah. They double down $10 now or 25. So

To me, that’s a, it’s a crock, you know, the fact that you can’t change it, but yeah. We’ll charge you if you, if you, if you thought to pay that beforehand,

You know what I find interesting

Thing is you’ve got to log in. You got to check out for Deere and log back and take it out and go back into your next species. And they’ve, they’re prone to making 14 different ID numbers for you and accounts because you know, you, one into one index will pull you up and they’ll get you in the draw. Now you’ve got two or three accounts about,

Oh, you buy a hunting license. But one the left hand doesn’t talk to the right and you have to go, replug in,

It will pull in a number there. But what you don’t know is that that number is already expired.


Heavy. I mean, it’s just an

Archaic system.

We’re being brutally honest, but you point to one person, one that likes me, call me, call us, email us, email [email protected]. Tell them that you’re, you’re happy. Now I’m not talking about you drew tax from Arizona. I’m talking about the application process of applying to you and your family.

It goes back to paper applications in front of the fees like Colorado used to do. It keeps people out. There’s some people that didn’t apply in Arizona because Arizona


System was so terrible. It

Doesn’t keep them out. It just makes, she doesn’t


Now it was a family of five and have to check out for two species eats. And by their license all had, it’s a unique

Plan. It’s an afternoon Bronson. You and I both

Did it. I manage an application service where you do a lot more people than that. And it became

Clear. We got good bird. We do like crank it. But

They have a lot of room to upgrade their drop process. I’m just going to leave it at that.

I agree. I agree. A hundred percent. And so, yeah, it’s not, not friendly that let’s sum it up. The word not customer friendly would be


Worst. You know,

One of the top three. And they

Don’t, they don’t, they, they just act like they don’t care. But having said that they are kind of enjoying some of these new little skews, you know, they’re enjoying those, those little, those little tags on the end and a few little revenue generators. Well, that came from the one of those and why, but why do you have that? Because you, your budgets are stressed and, and it goes back to just, just, just appreciate people, appreciate the non-resident. And we don’t take that much down there and could

Easier force. We’ll keep playing. You’ll get

More money. You’ll get more money for these. If it’s easy, I got back to Nevada. I mean, these guys are proactive. They, they want to do the button. Same as last year, as easy and as fast as you can. Right? But if you get through one or two people in Arizona, you might just go, wow,

I can’t have nice

That, that son of mine doesn’t care about Arizona. Oh, he’s happy doing what we’ve got going on. And we’re going to leave it here.

There are $160 license fee, 15 per space. It’s pretty easy.

Especially in this world. Everything is, you want something right now

And you want to sit down and check out like what? I have to buy anything online. If it’s too complicated, I start checking out.

Well, I mean, people are knee jerk. Like what’s Chris saying, like, when you’re ready to buy something, you’re willing to buy at this moment. But if you talk to me tomorrow, I might change

Well. And if it takes me 10 hours to give you my money that I worked hard for, I might think twice, twice about,

Yeah. I said, I’m checking out. I mean, I’m really, I’m checking out, I’m leaving the website, not checking out and buying it. So that was the wrong choice.

I mean, your check

I’m checking. I’m not giving up. I’m giving up, throwing in the towel. I’m tapping out, I’m fitting another tab and I’m doing the same Google search for the thing that I’m looking for, starting over

Lots of positive. And so you hate to see it, the same thing we’ve got the over the counter deer tags, nothing should be managed with over the counter tags. I mean, it just, it is what

That was over. I know it’s hard to give away, but every state’s done it now

We’ve got thresholds and that’s gonna, those are going to be met. And a lot of these hunts during the August season, and you’re going to shove a bunch of hunters in the whatever’s left December and January, because people are going to go do it. They’re just going to look at the list.

It’s a

Band, let’s go learn another.

I think it’s a, band-aid for motor long-term management productivity.

And again, drought sensitive. And, and, and there’s just, all right, well, let’s move on. But we love it though. We do love Arizona

A little bit about New Mexico earlier. I think we’ve hammered them. Pretty good. They’re there. They’ve got, non-residents hard in their crossers right now, which, okay,

Well, they’ve got a commission. That’s a rogue right now and everything’s on the table who knows, who knows what’s going to happen. So, and that’s hard, you know, that there’s so much angry Bronson just as an Al, just as a people are circumventing boards and just going straight to legislatures and stuff, because there’s so much anger. And, and part of it is warranted. I’m going to defend it just a little bit. Part of it is warranted. The boards haven’t listened to, maybe the local public caught a cab, Iraq, whatever. It depends on what state you’re in the local public input. They’ve done what they wanted to do at times. And we’ve seen it personally. And then, you know, at some point to get any change at all, you’ve got a,

But yeah, but at the same token, when you get something in state law, try to get that change versus versus a rule or a policy on the wildlife board level. I it’s doesn’t make me feel good. I don’t like it. It’s literally somebody playing king, just like we’re talking about being king right now.

And it’s not going to happen because you don’t even like politics.

No, I’m heading to the Hills.

All right. So where are we in

New Mexico? We skipped it so we can do Colorado if you want.

Yeah, let’s do Colorado. What do you like?

I like the options that I probably have a few more things to say that I don’t like, but I like, I liked it. You have something, no matter your point level, when it comes to deer that you can go, do I do like that. You can force the draw with 0 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or however many point chap you can

Foresee with the current quotas.

You’ve been able to, I like that. Plus you can turn back options, occasionally landowner tags, to be able to go. I like that. I use it as, as my is a deer state every year in my, in my calendar. I like that option. I don’t have an elk much there, but I mean, I could, should just, I don’t, but from a deer standpoint, I love that you can force it. If I’ve got three points, 5, 6, 10, and I want to go that year. There’s something I can usually try to do that with. And it’s predictable. That’s probably the number one thing I like about Colorado other than when they grow big deer that can grow up. But I don’t like a hundred percent preference point draw on deer out. I don’t like it. There’s no

Rent. I’ve got the hybrid. What do you mean?

Well, that’s, that’s a smoke and mirrors.

I know we’ve talked about it for, I’m just trying to get a little bit,

But I, I think you, you should have, shouldn’t be all preference on deer and elk, I mean, or, or sheep or anything and sheep and moose and goat or sheep on, but do you need to have some random tax? And if you’re now, if you’re now going to be looking at cutting non-resident portions of tax and it’s a hundred percent preference, you haven’t seen anything in the world of point creep until you’re going to see it coming down the pipe.

That’s right. Cause if

It, if you think it’s bad now, and then you cut non-resident tags in half and give no random tax, you’re flirting with rats, jumping from a single synchronous

And their point system kind of on a little bit of a different subject, but their point system for sheep goat mousse, it’s hard to wrap your arms around it, that it’s helping you. And we have people that are getting three points and then not participate in the point system. And so if your point, if their point system was better in regards to those three

Easily quantifiable, and I know a statistician will tell me, I can quantify it down to,

But you’re not getting my money, quantify it. So you get my money. Yes.

Square your point, something to where you can mathematically know how many entries you are and calculate your odds a little bit easier than it all initiated based on your initial random number. And then it gets divided by a

There’s a lot of hate there for how much we support their state with the non-resident over-the-counter elk tags. I mean, dude,

I mean, I don’t know what the percentage is. We could have been a little more prepared and how that in every state in Mexico,

We don’t, we don’t even have any notes. This is just, we didn’t even know we were talking about today.

Now we, we, we started talking about, I

Want to hear. Yeah. And it’s kind of not some

Morphing, but

Chris, I want to hear what Chris loves about Colorado besides all the 200 dentures. Go ahead, Chris.

I could do, I could do a couple things. I like, as Adam said, you can, you can go, you can go. There’s an opportunity. Whether you have one point or 10 points or whatever, you can go to Colorado, nothing stopping you. If you want to draw a tag, you can go, it may be a terrible experience, but you can go. That’s, that’s one thing I like about it as well. I like there in the past, it’s been a very good opportunity. A lot of these units would only take three to four points are great hunts. They can be. That’s another thing I like about it. I don’t like, it feels like a lot of decisions are made. Like we’re saying politically and, and, and as Denver, and as the state goes a little bit more


Left, we, it feels like hunting is becoming


Bad word almost in Colorado.

Yeah. Just look at past Wolf’s into the state and it’s not.

And talk, they’ll talk about marijuana all day long every day. But, but with the hate, the hunter.

Yeah. And you get out in these rural communities and they’re there. They want hunting, it funds their economies, but yet they have zero say in the actual law because the law comes out of Denver,


To Portland, Oregon, or

Washington or

Reno, Nevada, Vegas. I mean, there, you know, there’s all right. I like it.

Yeah. I hope we’re not heading that way in Utah. And we’re not talking about Utah yet, but Hey, look at the monitor. We demographically a whole lot built differently than say Colorado, where the masses live in Colorado. They’re all

What I do like about you, Tom. We’re going to go there. Let’s just, yeah, let’s get over it. All right. Is there, there’s some interesting skews here? Well, I mean, we, you know, what I,

Why is that? Why do they have to make new skews

Because of the season dates

And there’s you to spread people out? Because there’s no doubt

We’ve got point creep, like crazy. There’s no tags. And the reason there’s no tags is because we have to have quality because of, and we have to have quality because of a number of reasons


That’s right. I mean, there’s all that, there’s some changes that may happen coming, coming down the pipe there

Besides family food folks and fun and family, and you’re

In state killed a deer here in this state. Since 2010,

I was golfing this morning and I was talking with a guy who’s golf enough. He drew a deer tech, great deer tech this year. He said it was his, he’s almost a turn 50. And it’s a second limit entry. Dear entry tag, he’s drawn an elk and a deer. And I was thinking, what have

I done? Second deer now, the second, total

Second. And I was counting me. I’ve done an antelope. That was back when I was like a teenager, when you can apply for everything. Cause you, you,

By down a little bit, a lot of states

I’ve killed like three bucks in my life. So, and you know about them all.

Okay. Okay. Keep going.

But yeah, I’ve drawn that an elk and a deer in my life were dang near,

But you’ve had some general Deere tax, which would be like over the counter Ida hotel.

Okay. Yeah. But when I’m just talking, because of some of the things that we’re talking about, we have to have, and it’s all getting worse. So

What would,

What do I, what do I do? Like I do like that and you, that we have have two systems, but the result of that two systems for deer is our limit entry deer. We got like a thousand limit enter deer tags in the state and good luck ever getting one. Yeah. I mean, that’s terrible.

1,001 yes. Area 10. They call it.

And maybe it’s 1500, but it’s not very many in Utah. At one time it was like a thousand to 1500. And we had like 90 something thousand general tax. It was like roughly one or 2% that I made. But I do like a general Laos. You know, we take your kids to do stuff like that.

And those aren’t over the counter just to quantify they’re on a drop too with a separate point system. But well, anyway, there’s some things, but, but having said that there are some things that might need to change, you know, as again, there’s, there’s some changes since needed. I don’t know the exact, I don’t know if you’re right

In a couple of

Things. I mean, you know, what’s funny. Non-residents can apply for everything. You know, we have to do one of the ones in lifetimes and then deer elk Reynolds.

And I don’t mind that cause I know what would happen because I see what happened to the non-resident pool. Every odd antelope now takes, I don’t know, off the charts.

Yeah. Part of it is again, the tack quotas you think were bad, the non-res and spat

Well, and the reason why they did that and just be Frank, the only reason they did that, the only reason is to keep non-residents applying for the state and buying the hunting license.

We know that because they’re at the

Meeting, they were going to, you’re going to do two. And now we’re going to raise the hunting and make you buy a hunting license to start doing that. Oh, let’s let them play for everything and let them give this good, warm and fuzzy, you know, butterfly and rainbow feeling. They’re going to get points for all these spaces. And it really doesn’t mean anything. Well,

You know,

Get your dry run faster, Utah


To Joe.

Chris kills a great buck here. And you tell you like that.

I liked that. But how many limited entry deer tags have I drawn? Zero. Will I ever draw eliminate entry elk? Probably not.

What are you applying for right now? Which one of the limited tree species are you in here?

Deer deer. And I’m 20 I’m 20 years. I’m 20 years and

I have

25, 20 points for everything that, that I can apply for. So dear sheep. And then I made

Sure about 34, 35 years old,

Somewhere around there. Okay. Well

How about Nevada? There’s


Okay. How about Nevada’s? Has some of their residents have drawn multiple desert sheep tags? Yeah.

That’s a pet peeve of mine

A little bit. All right. Okay. Well, anything else in Utah?

That’s the hard thing for me is maybe I will draw deer tag at some point in my life, but elk, I probably will never draw an elk tag in Utah. And that’s, that’s kind of disappointing because it’s a crazy day for elk. It is

That there are some things that need to change on the elk and the management plan. And it is brewing. The master plan is up. Whether something gets changed, whether the gnashing of teeth is so loud that it can’t get changed. It needs to change hunting elk every day in the rut with, with rifles. And it’s just, if it’s ever going to change, that’s where it’s going to have to change. You have to shift some seasoned days.

I just hate hunting females when we’re under cook gang capacity to, to a piece of fuse and landowners. I hate that. Like Chris you’ve seen it firsthand and that’s

And then, then you add private land buck tags in November, right? For a month


Now. I I’m not a fan of that. You got people running up and down the main streets, shooting deer off the road.

Okay. Chris is getting angry. Chris, where are we going next?

So I guess Wyoming. Hey,

Hey, Hey, what I like is that the residents can have over-the-counter on places that I, it takes me six. Well really let’s call it region. H let’s call it four or five to nine, 10 points. I liked that. I liked that they get to go every year and they get mad at me. They get, they get mad at you. They hate you.

You’re such a liar.


Ticks me off.

What do you really like about it?

What I like is that they’re like, like the general elk, for example, I think has amazing potential. You could hunt. You could legitimately hunt three 30 plus bulls, if not even three 50 plus in some areas every

Three or four years,

Three to four to five years. And that may or may not change they’re bursting at the scenes. Hopefully they let loose on some non-resident tags. The tag quota was arbitrarily set years ago. They don’t even really know what it was based off of how set all that, you know, I just wish we could. I wish they wouldn’t again, kind of a subsidy forcing us to go with an outfitter in wilderness areas. I hate that, but, but in a wilderness area, I’d probably hire a guy willingly, willingly. I would, you know, in some cases, dude, I’m not going to be going and hunting 51 or 59 or 56 on a late season or something. I mean, I’m just not set up for the cold temperatures, you know, dude, and the miles and the depth of snow that can occur, whatever. I’m just, you know, I probably would go outfit it. I mean, there’s cases that would make,

But there’s also low elevation wilderness. We’ve ran into some of that and Southern Wyoming it’s dude, there’s, it’s just a

Revenant 70 for deer. It’s a

Creek on one side, you can’t hunt one tiny cat it’s roadless, but it’s designated wilderness. And that changes.

Yeah, because some bunny hugger, this thought that that should be wilderness and it doesn’t even make sense. Some of it doesn’t even look at it,

Walk down there and fish that river, but you better not shoot a buck.

So yeah, we don’t like it. I don’t think it’s really fair. I don’t, I don’t think it’s fair to crock,

Be that bold to say,

But we do appreciate the Outfitters. We send them clients like, I mean, we were all for Bronson. You’re in the outfitting industry. I’m I was in the outfitting industry years ago. Like I’m just saying, it’s not like we’re anti,

We have, we have a total perspective on this, literally in every angle. It’s just that, that one. Isn’t right. It’s the only state in the nation. We

Own these guys to go in the wilderness. It’s the

Only state in the nation that has that fit in, in lower 48. I mean, Alaska sets things on species, you know, bears, big bears, sheep and goats. You got to hire somebody. Who’s a non-resident. But

They’re talking about continuing with that and doing outfitter tags and Wyoming home, meaning in the outfitted draw tax, like similar to New Mexico. And so in the,

I call him subsidies. I don’t, I don’t like him. I don’t like that.


I mean, it’s a public resource, but

We’ve drawn tags. Chris. We’ve drawn tags in New Mexico on the outfitter test.

Well, that’s their system. And it’s feels like when they’ve gone to the, when they’re the pike shrinking and the good moisturizers, we go that way. I want to try to draw a tack. This isn’t

Better drawing aunts. Right? Yeah. And we do the two day thing. You have to hire a guy for two days. And so you play this system and you play the game and there’s the officers down there like, well, you know, I would never throw a $20 bill on the ground. So I’ll take you for two for two days. And that makes sense. It all makes sense, but they kind of force you to play that little game. It’s a little bit of it. It’s a bit of a game.

All right. My wife, my Wyoming, I like light Colorado. I liked it. It’s it? It is somewhat predictable. You

Know, you were going to say you like the antelope.

No, in Wyoming, I’ve shot one up there. And one in Wyoming, did I say one? I say Colorado,

Colorado, but I thought we

Were still done with Colorado. They evergreen or whatever state is the Wolf state. We’re all talking about right now.

So I thought you would say that you like that the antelope, because you’re kind of an analytic guy.

Don’t try to spin this harder. Everybody knows. Everybody knows that sort of thing. So I like the predictability. I do think 75, 25 is a little steep on the split. And with the sheet loosened, meaning max point holders get 75% random, only get 25 where

I’m not,

It’s not, as

You were possibly thinking non-resident quotas. You know?

Well, where I’m going with this is now on the moose, sheep and goat that have been reduced to 10% going into 2023. You S you shrunk that pie small. And now you’re dividing a 75, 25. There’s almost no random tags left. And this is the type of razor edge thing I was alluding to earlier. There’s almost no carrot to dangle. The carrot is a shred of a carrot film

About the point fee up there. Has it been worth it? No, it’s not worth it for somebody with under 18 points. And, and, and so people were opting out, right? How much money did they leave on the table? And again, it’s not all about money, but obviously they have budgets and it is about money.

And if you’re going to go to so few attacks and you’re going to have one or two random tags, and you don’t have a quantifiable random draw with squared points, whatever, what are they talking about? Trying to make it more incentive. They know that non-residents might be leaving their state.

They know that we’re responsible. So they

Might be

Making over 70% of their budget.

It might be trying to make a squared point draw for the random drop. Well, there’s going to be big boy ramifications from this and who knows if the deer can antelopes come in next, we’ve been told and we’ve, you know, the rest of the group that’s up there. So that’s coming. We’re planning for it, whether it passes or not. We know the guide Outfitters are gonna find it hard. Cause it’s a lot bigger number of tactics throughout the antelope.

Well, but what I understand, they’re talking guide tack. So I think there’s some change coming.

So anyway, it’s yeah.

All right. Having said that we we’ve hunted Wyoming multiple times and we’ve played the system and it’s worth playing the system. It’s worth getting deer and elk points

At this point 30, 40, you know, 50 bucks,

50 bucks for a 44 year 30 grand plus relatively

Affordable to do that. Bill points, kids are cheaper. 10, 10, and 10. No brainer from 10 or 12 to 18, but

Yep. So, all right, well good. Okay.

What else we know?

I like there’s part of this. I love and part of it. I don’t love, but I do like if you’ve, if you happen to be a guy that forgot to put in, you can buy points in the summer.

Not only that you just, everybody has to, by a point in the summer,

I don’t like that. That’s the part. That’s

Why I said there’s two parts of it. I don’t like

That. Wyoming. You went, you went, I thought

Chris was going to say, he likes the bears in Wales.

What’s the opposite of evolution of evolving and you’re going, but you’re going now the other way you used to charge and you, you want to do a winter. Do you want to buy a point or do you not want to belt? But yeah, I do. Well now you just apply and you’re on the draw. And then you got to remember in the summer to go get your point. No, that’s dumb. I applied it and I was unsuccessful. We’ve talked to many people. We splattered in our magazine that you still got to go back for deer, elk and antelope and do that. They, they allow you to pick it for sheep and sheep

And moose. I know. Let me just

Still pick it for the other second. Forget about you in the summer. Anyway. It’s just a,

So, so I like the fact that you can go buy it if you need to. But I don’t like that. If you put in for the draw, you’re not going to point.

I like you.

Yeah. They’ve they’ve come up to the times. They’ve changed some things. I like that. Yeah.

But, and I liked it. I got some big deer.

Yeah. Well, I liked that. I got great antelope. You’ve been there one more time than I have.

Come on. How do you know?

You’ve been twice. I’ve been once,

Maybe more. Do

You know? I know I met him while

Me at 13 years old.

Okay. Well, I’ve been at least once more than me. Probably more you’re right, Kansas. There’s one thing I need to bring up there.

Are we blowing? Yeah, let’s

Do it. It’s the next day I’m moving east.

Let’s do it. I thought you were going to go to Montana.

I like that. It’s cheap to get a point. That’s why I had to start that way to be, you know, follow my own game rules. I hate that you can’t do a meal put in for mule deer, just meal there. What’s your points. I hate how you have to draw. Tell tag first for about 400 bucks

Discrimination at its finest. The residents can hunt with a rifle, but we get muzzle or

Yeah. And you can’t draw the mule there, you know, unless you draw the white till tag first and then draw a separate, no points allowed random, but not

Rifle, not rifle muzzle or, I mean, just come on.

I shot one with the rifle.

Yeah. We’ve covered a deck. I’m just saying

$2,100. I’m

Just saying it’s wrong.

That’s having

Said that. I liked the, I liked the fact that you could draw at least every other year. Yeah. I’m usually every year, like every other year,

The house to print them for me on there, whatever do it. Right. It’s one of those things. It doesn’t make sense. Oh, we haven’t talked about Montana. Whoa.

No, that’s what I thought you were. Right? I thought you were heading.

Sorry. Sorry, mom.

It’s okay. I just think

You take,

I just want to kind of increase your thoughts.

Hey, I got shut down. I thought I had a tip this year. Hey,

I just hate how convoluted I, what I like about Montana. Oh, I haven’t hunted there much. I mean, you and I went up there for deer and elk and haven’t hunted it much. What I hate. Okay. Well, love

You got a lot to start with. Well,

I liked the fact that I drew a deer tag and I can get Ashley and over the over-the-counter tag with, I liked that. And Justin probably take them both. I like that

Under 18

Or whatever. I liked that. And that’s the only thing I can think about that I can, like, I think what I like is that I’ve had the option to hunt big bowls, but I’ve chose not to, but I know that

They’re ready to we’re building the points for it. I

Know that there’s big bulls to be had on pretty easy,

But, but the reason that you’re not, and I’m not, and haven’t been for five years applying up there is because of the convoluted. Oh, wait, I assessed the good

Thing. Terrible

Thing is, is I’ve had a goat tag in Montana. Okay. Thank you. Moving on.

You did you killed a

2013 pine tree in the wilderness?

I love that. I don’t know many guys that have written a Patrick. Chris, have you heck no.

I think you should have seen Eric when that guy that he went up there, he lived in there a couple of years and met this guy and he was an awesome dude. He shows up with the horses, we’re going in. He swings open the horse trailer. They walked out, we tie him up and he goes over there and he goes, it looks as we got a problem and he go over there and he’s, there’s one saddle and two packs

Nowadays Bronson, you would’ve driven it down and bought a saddle.

I had

Sold it on eBay.

I am not a horse guy. I know they sell for fives or tens of thousands of dollars,

The good ones, just

To get a crap one for

Five to 800 bucks, better than a pack tree.

I would have wrote that check. So you know, those that are in the old cowboy bars that are just tacked up to the wall.

Here’s some money. Usually

I would’ve bought that though, anyway, regressing, but I absolutely despise their two-step process for dairy tags in Montana.

And what’s funny. And that’s what you


You feel like, well, I’m applying

Well, meaning bro, you don’t, you don’t


Okay. You’re building points. But my point is, you’re not trying to draw out tag every year because you’ve got to draw the general. And if you do and don’t draw the special or your forefoot in that, and it it’s a thousand bucks, minus 20%, every single time you draw the general and it’s convoluted and it’s a pain in the butt.

You could be in the, in the draw as a group together for the gen for the general and apply for different, special, limited entries. You know what I mean? I mean, every year it seems like we learned and, and it’s, and it’s not necessarily this case, but it feels like you got to relearn the entire process and all the little nuances there’s crazy.

Oh yeah. That the, that the preference point draw for the, the general tags. The 75% goes to max. The other 25% doesn’t goes to the random, but only to random people with zero points,

None and play the point system. You have a point going into the draw. And so you select wide,

Shut yourself.


He beat the system?

He did. So he drew last year and then this year he had to decide, am I going to give him the money for the point or not? And if I don’t, I have better odds this year, but then I’ll have, if I don’t, but I’ll have worse odds next year. Cause I won’t have a point the point from this year. But if I do buy it right now, I have worse odds. We’re


And you’re like,

What? So he just said to heck with it, I’m not buying the point. And you draw again the back and we know people with one or two points that didn’t draw.

There’s just a, it’s just, you know, it’s such a convoluted and they w they want it that way. And again, it feels like they hate

Not, not real friendly, not a friendly app series. And I know you residents up there, like, yeah, cry me a river. It’s just, it’s a show me another state that you would have to jump through those hoops to apply for elk and say, you’d like, it be honest with yourself. It’s terrible.

Yeah. All right. Got it. Okay.

And I didn’t burn my most points. Thanks to a fellow. You didn’t know. I didn’t burn my lose points. They tried, I tried, I had a tip from a listener thanks to the podcast and didn’t work out. So it was, it was, it was a story that


Thanked you for a tip by the bulls.

You also saved the money on the tech. How about that? Saved you some cash.

Hey, I want those 22 or whatever points.

Cause you keep buying your own forest. They got you. You gotta say it out loud.

They got me by the leash.

All right. Well,

We probably need to thank a few people to keep this out there and Hey, we might, we’re going to talk about maybe a bundle here at the end to obstacle. I say it is draw and all seriousness. There is a lot of good news coming out.

Lots of good news.

You know, I wrote that a little blurb in my June magazine about all the state draw results come out in may. We’re like halfway through them and they’re still coming. But if you find out you’re getting good news and you

Need to

That still pending. But if you find out that you’re a gut, good news, need a member experience list, or an outfitter. Give us a call. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. I’m

Going to draw in Nevada to Friday. This is to

Me to

6:00 PM. Pacific time.

What’s it called again? Adventure begins.

Yeah. They copied, you know, Maverick or

Was happy hour. They couldn’t call it happy hour. That’s what it is.

I I’m just glad when they’re there. They’re excited about it. I’m excited about it. Yeah. We’ve had the Wyoming out come out today. It’s kind of fun. I mean, we’ve had a lot of draws. Our guys, we, we drew some people, huh?

The waves keep coming today. I’ve taught some great, more

Lot more draw results coming out. And then we got some more deadlines and we’re applying like, it’s our job Bronson. All right, keep going. What were we talking about

This time?

Stealth cam, we have had some people draw tags and it’s kind of jarred some people to look at their inventory. And of course, some of these sell cam let’s call them seasons, make it to where you’ve got to get it out, get them out, get them working and then pull them back in. And so anyway, you may need a few cameras. If you do give us a holler 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7, stealth cam.com. But check out what they’ve got. We’ve got where we ordered heavy on two different models. We ordered annex. Well, actually three models cellular and then kind of a, more of an upper end camera that we’re selling for his steel. Not too much over a hundred and then mid right there, 55 bucks or something on, on kind of a lower grade camera. That’s still awesome. I

Use them. Yeah. When you need a bunch of cameras or a bunch of coverage and yep.

And then we ordered some cell cellular cams as well. So anyway,

Lockboxes, all that,

We got a few last year models that were blown out anyway. First come first serve. Give us a holler. I like it. It’s just, it’s just that time of year Bronson. We’re also doing a ton of optics. I even some more. Huh? How about that?

Oh yeah. Well it’s that time of year too. It’s amazing. We, we say it every year and then soon as the drought results started coming out, people like I do this, you know, I, you know, it’s just like you draw a bow Archer tag, you need a new bow or a setup, whatever it’s, it’s true. There’s nothing like a great tag to make you really evaluate your gear. And if you need some optics, give us a call. We carry, you know, all the major brands, you know, it’s Roskies ice like a vortex Rivek. So anyway, give us a call. Whether it’s buying a spotting scope, we are heavily inventoried heavily. We’ve done that deliberately. We got sick of waiting and bits and pieces and onesies and twosies. And

Having said that if we’re, if we run out of something, well,

We’ll order for you still will order it.

And our, to some of them are back ordered a little bit. So I’m just saying first, come first serve on some of that.

You know, don’t wait too late. If he needs something better, give us a call on that. And Hey, we’ve done one of these before, but vortex has been a great partner of ours over the years from the, from the start actually heard epic outdoors. And we did one of these bundles for a razor HD 27 to 60 by 85 spotting scope, whether it’s angled or straight along with either a summit, carbon, two or Ridge view, carbon tripod. We’ll do the kit there. If you call them, buy one of those, a kit, we’ll do a special price on there and we’ll throw a ranger 1800 rangefinder in for free. Whoa,

Wait. All right.

I’m one of those a while ago and blew a bunch out and Hey, I’m ready to do it again. Let’s do it. It’s time. It’s get, get them in people’s hands that can use them. Cause they’re not going to find deer and elk sitting in her safe.

I like it. Hey didn’t we have a little something. Something to give away.

Well, yeah. Well in the spirit of that, let’s do it.

Let’s give away tech, sign them.

Well, let’s give away a pair of diamond backs. You know, whether you got to just truck vinyl or kits

Now, and maybe a range finder next time

Let’s do it. What are we going to do to, how do we, how do we do that? Is it some social media, Chris? Usually what you do? Something like that. Yeah, let’s do that. Your little rules will.

Okay. Yeah. There will be a vortex post posted about this bundle. Okay.


You share that post to your Instagram story, sell your odds are going to be pretty

Good in 24

Hours. So your odds will be pretty good. If you share that, bundle the vortex, bundle to your story, then you will be entered. And we’re going to draw that on a Friday, the 27th, the deadline,

I like it. Appreciate phone scope in there. Support of us here at epic outdoors. Justin’s a good buddy. Of course we talk about him often, maybe even a little too often, but we like him and he’s got great products. So in fact, my phone, I love the case is on twenty four seven protects the phone. I like it. And anyway, you don’t video it, it didn’t happen. It’s very easy to video with it. Take photos and whatnot. And in this day and age quality optics out there, it’s pretty incredible. Chris we’ve even put out TV shows, using phone scope footage.

That’s right. Unbelievable. And if you need, if you get a new phone or if you get a new spotting soap or something like that, you might need to tweak your phone scope. So keep in mind. P H O N E S K O P e.com.

That’s right. Everybody stick with us. We do have a little bit of a bonus. Let’s call it a bonus footage here, coming on the end. Bronson Bronson snapped his head. He’s not sure what that means, but if you’re thinking of a hunting story or something, all right. So anyway, a little shout out to triple S Polaris 4, 3, 5, 8, 6, 5, 0 100 super good people. I’ve been cranking on the razor. You know, it’s one of those things. I do a little bit of social media, but don’t want to show too much about where we’re, where we’re at and what we’re doing. But having said that we’ve got that razor crank and it’s an awesome, they make awesome products. And look, they kind of specialized in the aftermarket side of things, make it to exactly what we need in the field. So anyway, Colton Francis, we appreciate you appreciate your company. Triple S players, Cedar city, Utah they’ll deliver anywhere literally anywhere 4, 3, 5, 8, 6, 5, 0 100.

I had something else written down that you threw out. It’s one of those things. That’s kind of one of the funniest or best or whatever things I heard all week. You asked and you out, you said let’s ask it on a podcast. No I did. Yeah, you did. You’re gonna know. You’re gonna remember. You’ve wondered. We’re talking about stags. We’re talking about

Stacks, goats.

No, but you said, I wonder if anybody has ever started a shot, a stag antelope, remember, and what it looks like, and we’ll throw it out there. If you’ve got a picture, email that to us to show the stag. Antelope. I have not. I couldn’t say I’ve ever seen one. If I did, I didn’t know him.

Send us a photo. It would be interesting.

We know what they’re now look like when they’re that way. We’d want to know what an antelope does. If it hasn’t happened, jumping fences all the time, stuff’s going on

Guaranteed. You’re going to snag your boys on something. Somebody, some critter, somewhere in the antelope world has snagged the boys on something.

Remember evolutionary. Aren’t they like, they’re not related like anything else on the earth. It seems like the north American antelope. So maybe they maybe then maybe they’re Bulletproof.

No, no,

I don’t know. Hey, name the last night.


Weird thing you’ve seen on an antelope. I’m not talking, breaking a horn horn B space.

There was a lot in Wyoming that are freaking dead.

Well, not CHD. That’s not sad. Substance-related all right.

All right. One thing I was wondering. So for the bonus footage, I was just wondering, I love to put Clint. I love to put Clint on the spot. He’s so opinionated. I just want to ask him what he thinks about the point systems for a minute. What do you think? Should we see if he’ll answer a phone call or you thinking about a particular hunting stories? You want to talk about one of the animal stories

I told all three.

All right. Well, sometimes we ought to have all three on one podcast. So people don’t have to sit through the last 250 podcasts,

Antelopes Adam’s antelope, hunting experiences,

Battle antelope, hunting adventures. We can even make another ACE. So it’d be AAA, like

Four minutes,


Podcast and alleys

Alligator. All right. Let’s just ask, I don’t know,

Worst and best maybe instead of all

His opinion.


Hey, what are you doing?

No, just formulating hunting plans.

Timing. I got you

On there. Pick up. Oh, Hey. And we’ll make it quick. We know you’re we know you’re trying to make money


14 women and children

And he, and the heat’s on. And so ACS are starting to get cranked, right?

Yeah. People, people get angry when they get hot.

We’ve been talking about angry world right now.

You’re probably at a cool 68 formulate and hunting plans.

Well, yeah, I was, it was nice and cool. People can always put on more blankets, but they just can’t take off more closed.

What, what plans are you first off, since you talking about what plans you formulate, what are you looking at?

My cousin was his tag was trying to see if I’m going to be able to help him on his aunt.

Alright. Okay. Alright. Is it a good, good cousin or maybe not so good cousin

Because this isn’t the, I want to go here. An

Active, willing participant.

Yes. This is not a, I’m not there is there.

Okay. Okay. All right. Well, clamp, we want, we today’s subject. It was point systems and positives and negatives throughout all the Western states. And if you were king, what would you change? Just wondering your opinion, maybe general or however you want to go with it of point systems in general. You like them? Don’t like them. And then

Which one? Which ones did you like? More or less and less

Because guy, a guy like you, you’re very thoughtful, deliberate, and you analyze everything.

Benefit, cost, benefit ratio, you know, all those.

And if there’s a loophole you’ve screwed a state or two. So,

Okay. For starters, there’s a whole lot of hate going on right now, out there.

Yeah. Well that’s why we say Hey, just to let you know the flavor, the flavor of the show, just to let you know, we talked about that and we, the named at the glass half full show. So when we started talking about a state wheat, the first thing we said had to be positive. That was our own

Rules. We’d like to hear something positive out of you.

I like point systems. I don’t like a hundred percent preference point system like Colorado. There are, there are some benefits to that. It’s because predictability, I like the predictability point in that, but there’s just so many people that want to hunt. And so limited of a resource out there right now, people are going to become more and more disgruntled with those systems in the future. I like Utah, Utah, half as half as random half go to points. I like that. You still have a chance. And that’s kinda where I land. I Idaho, all random, New Mexico, all random. I feel like those two states don’t show me any love. I never can seem to get. And, but I also am putting in for the better units. So the more shot type odds. And

How do you feel about the guy draw in New Mexico? Do you like it?

No, I don’t like it. I’m going to do it yourself or I don’t like it and that’s me. But at the same time, I don’t want to be a hater.

We’ve had,

There’s lots of hate going on right now. And what I don’t like is a lot of people want to, if you start a system, I think you should try and maintain the system as close as you can so that when people are invested in it, you don’t jerk the rug out from underneath them years down the road. Like if you, I, luckily I had drawn my, I cashed out on my loose points in Wyoming a few years ago. And you

Drew again,

I drew again random this year. Do you feel

Good about that? Is that fair?

I almost feel guilty to tell you the truth.

My brothers,

My brother. And I was like, you know, I don’t know. He’s my point group is drawn. Maybe it’s 21, 22 points. And he hasn’t drawn in five years. He’s been in the point group is drawn and I just picked up a random fact. It’s the last year for that, they’re going to change the 90 10. And those random tags are going to disappear. And those people that in the twenties that have been waiting for sheep and moose tags that think that they’re going to get a chance down the road because they’re getting points and you know, a 75 bucks, a hundred bucks, a


50 now. Yeah,

Yeah. All that. And then they want to change the allocation. So even less go to you, I kind of feel like you’re being called 30 to them.

Do you feel like the states appreciate non-residents?

I don’t feel like any state out there at all appreciates non-residents whatsoever. Hmm.

Despite despite the 65 day, almost 80% of some of these states budgets coming from non-resident licenses.

I think that we fund a lot of stuff. And for a long time, I think about Colorado and Wyoming and some of these, they would always, the residents would want more tax and they’d want to say, well, are you willing to pay more for the text to the resident? The non-residents are really footing the large portion of our hunting budget. And a lot of the residents that finally said, we don’t care anymore. We’re willing to pay more, but they still don’t want to raise it. Resident tech fees, proportionately, like they probably should. And then they say, well, we’ve had a good year. And so we’re flush with money. And so


Let’s just hold it on residents this year because our budget’s good. I don’t know.

Right on. Right on any other thoughts in regards to the points

Points, I don’t look at points guaranteeing you attack

Not money in your bank. And all of a sudden the bank burned down and they say, we can’t you



I like it. It improves your odds. But to be honest, some states I’m kinda, if I was starting fresh, there are certain states that I don’t know if you’re going to get your bang for your buck in the point system anymore.

I think of one of those instances in my life right now, my, my max points for most in Maya, Montana.

Okay. Yeah. See, I got max. I have max Montana. You

Do, you have all three.

Yeah. I got all three max.

I have

Max sheet

And, and I drew my goat. So I’m glad I’m done, but I mean,

Goat and kill the moose. I’m happy. That’s static. It’s done.

And I accept that, you know, I’ll, I may never get a hunt, those Hans, and that’s fine, but it’s

A little bit different for the,

That’ll be your third year,

But Darrell can handle up on them. We’ve talked about states like Oregon for Daryl canal for having sites and how stingy they are. And

I dropped Oregon like 15 all the time.

I said, when they raised the permit or a little hunting license fee doubled it or more,

And they raised the fee and I was, I mean, I still got points there cause I don’t think you lose your points. Maybe I’ll go try to get a white tail hunt there someday or


I mean, I talked to them and told them they were at the expo one day and I talked to them and I sure

They listened. They listened.

They listened to me. I didn’t make difference. He tended to care for a minute. Like Nevada, Nevada just has so few non-resident tax. I kind of liked their point system, but it’s your chances still are.

They got to help our drawing odds. Give us two choices instead of five, do something, get

Rid of the five choices for non-residents.

The five choices is kind of what’s killing it. I mean, I hate to say that. Cause I take advantage of that.

We all do. And the residents do too. That’s why they won’t touch it. They like it. But man, they would even help the residents if they changed that. Yeah. Okay. What else?

That’s my, that’s my,

That’s your rant. You don’t have any hate.

I can try. I’m not a, well, it seems like there’s a lot of hate toward guides out there right now and Outfitters in Utah. And some of it might be well-deserved I don’t, I’m not going to be the judge on that, but there seems to be a lot of hate to non-residents everywhere out there. There’s hate for landowners. I mean, there’s hate for if you had a lifetime license in Utah, there’s, you know, hate, hate for that too. Right now.

I think drought, drought and the lack of trophies, quantity, quality.

If people have tags and they’re seeing deer, they don’t complain in the fishing game.

Two to three years ago. That was the case in Utah. Went two to three decades

Ago. Amazing. The difference two years on

May, 2019 when it was an unbelievable year. Geez, like this state is on the verge of the glory days are now

For the other states too.

And now it’s like know Lynch. I’m all

I’m angry. Yeah. I want 200 incher. I’m

Hungry and angry. Both.

Well, I’ve seen Colorado. There’s going to be stuff coming down in Colorado. Non-residents are going to get the short stick.

I don’t know if it’s short, honestly.

So you’re getting a pretty good chunk. I’m not gonna lie there. We know we have been and I’m not pretending there it’s but it’s but it’s just what we’re also talking about is yeah. You couple that with the, with, with, we’ve been getting a very healthy chunk of deer and elk tax, and now you’re going to cut that and there’s a hundred percent preference. Draw your point creep thing just got magnified. It’s done. So you’ve got to, there’s gotta be something else change. If you’re going to cut, cut those in half, you gotta have 50, 50 split something it’s going to have to have.

You know what I like about Clint? He’s living the American dream. It’s a weekday in the middle of the day and he’s working on hunting plans. I like that.

I was in between jobs overlap. Don’t give me

High school history teacher used to tell me the American dream was it have a chicken in every pot and two cars and every garage, how you do it. Cause it’s got that

Way more than two cards.

Chicken. He’s more than one chicken in the pot.

He got turkeys in the bottom.

Yeah. I’m surrounded by turkeys. They call me on the phone and put you on podcasts.


Here’s a podcast, a future podcast that you with with all this current, when the dust finally settles with non-resident allocations, you guys need to get serious and do a, if you’re going to move to a state for hunting reasons, what’s going to be the best state to move to. Oh, you know,

And you can only answer that based on today’s rules and plans and the management status. It’s a hard thing.

Brownton we know a guy that’s kind of Roman. We know a guy that’s in Arizona right now and he’s going to keep on Roman. Yeah. You know, not that he’s willing to stay there for five years if he needs to. Yeah.

I mean retirement age. And if you just live where you live and big old motor home,

I think Wyoming residents got a pretty good right now. Oh yeah. With the next little shift. I think Colorado is going to have a pretty good too. Yeah. Look the next little

I like Idaho. I fish. It’s amazing Upland game. You know, ducks, geese. I mean, jeez on top of big game still has over the counter sheep. Odds are amazing. You know, I think Idaho, Wyoming, Idaho, and Wyoming, Colorado are kind of my favorites, but I, I like Arizona team.

I’ve been in Utah, like just we’ve talked, got down and talked about CR Clint. I’ve drawn like three limit entry tags, not counting my sheet, but I’ve got one antelope, one elk and one deer in my life. It’s not the place to retire for hunting in Utah to draw

Tax terrible.

Arizona’s not either, you know, Nevada is not really either. You’re in the 90% poll everywhere, but there’s still tough texts to draw. Tell me anyway.

All right guy, we’re going to let you get back to making sure.

Yeah. I get the AC flown and get the, get the hangriness out of people

About spreading love, not hate.

Put that on this December.

An inaugural podcast on, on something positive. All right guys. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Yep. Bye. Hey. All right. So onto the positive here in about a day and a half, which is probably about the time this podcast to come out, Nevada’s going to be out. How about doubt? And even try to host sheep. That’s gonna be coming out, huh?

Yeah. Good luck in Nevada. Let’s try to shoot Chris. We’ll get this out about five o’clock on a Friday, Friday

Five o’clock it’s five o’clock somewhere. All right, everybody.

Appreciate it. Good luck. Let us know if you draw

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