The Epic Outdoors Crew talks about gear setup, including bows, guns, and muzzleloaders. They also talk about moisture levels around the West and share a few hunting stories.

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Anything to do with Western mid game.

Welcome to the epic outdoors podcast powered by under armor.

All right. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Adam’s not here, Evan. Wyatt’s not here again. How about that? Devon’s here. John’s here. Josh is here. How y’all doing? Pretty

Good. Really good.

Good. Well, we wanted to kind of come out with another podcast. There’s a lot going on. We’ve had Arizona results just came out. Freaking brutal. Draw have talked to a few sheep hunters, some deer hunters. There’s been, you know, a few pretty lucky guys and we’ve actually drawn Devin, quite a few COOs deer guys.

Definitely. Yeah. Guys are taking advantage of that.

Pretty awesome. Yeah. Right. I mean what a great opportunity. Of course, you know, we’re so hyperfocused on mul deer and why wouldn’t you be quite frankly, why wouldn’t you be COOs deer hunters. Love to hear that. They love that, but, and black tail hunters, have you ever met a more passionate group of deer hunters over the black tail? Huh? I mean those California black

Tails, the last two days, have you yeah. Excited about it. Getting guys pumped to go and

Yeah. So anyway, what,

What would a black tail be? They’re not liking liquors, like a caribou. They’re like a north side of the tree, fungus liquor.

They are where they live. They are. And then also highway, I mean, they’re kind of a, a mul wannabe. Exactly. Wouldn’t you say? Like, they kind of, they’re built like a mul ear, but they’re about half size. Yeah.

The ones on the one side of I five. They’re pretty little bugger

Though. Yeah, they are, are pretty well. I went and got my butt kicked, so I have no use for him or the guy that took me. But anyway, so, but anyway, Hey, Hey, it’s not my cup. That’s the one thing we should just go into that. Hey, when do you, when do you hire an outfitter? And when don’t you hire an outfitter dev you work with these guys all the time. You’ve hired Outfitters, right? Yes. You’ve done it. You went to Colorado, had a great experience. There’s sometimes even guys that are capable of hiring outfit or, or capable, excuse me of doing it on their own that may consider or should consider hiring an outfitter. And we’ve talked to multiple guys in Arizona. These guys are fully capable in their home state. They just don’t have the local knowledge. And so what do you tell guys when, when guys call in and say, well, what? I’m kind of thinking of doing it on my own, but I’m

Not sure. Well, a lot of guys overlook the big factor to me and that’s access. It gives you access to certain properties or, I mean, that’s huge, huge some units. It’s,

It’s everything. I

Mean, you look at antelope Wyoming, you can, you can do a fraction of the point that

You, you bring up antelope, Wyoming, you gonna be headed up there. You’re an analysts,

Chiller email I’m going. And my unit’s 98% BLM. So

I think I got, so you could care less. And the, the other 2% are, I have access yes. Program.

But if I had two points and it was a hundred percent dead set ongoing, I might have to go, go with somebody to get or something to get access.

But you also would consider that prior to applying. So that’s all part of, you know, your preplanning and, you know, making a good choice when you apply, when you actually apply. So I end up with this tag, am I willing to go guide it? Or am I not? And, and a lot of guys just apply and assume they’ll never draw. And then now they’re faced with that question here we are July. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it’s coming down. I mean, being July there’s, we’ve been doing a lot of stuff. We’ve been doing a lot of scouting, been setting up bows, setting up Muzz or setting up rifles. I don’t know. You’re gonna be doing some kind of physical Ironman competition. What, what do you got going on? Dev is true. Dev what do you got going on? David?

My brothers convinced me to do this in like February and you know, in February the winter, you’re like, yeah, I’m get in shape. And I

Got six months and

Then I ran on the treadmill

One. The first

Time I tried run a mile, I almost die.

Did you have a heart monitor on, well then did you have 9 1, 1 dialed up it just

In the first quarter mile. I’m like, I don’t remember being this hard to run. And I realized when I adjusted the speed, I wasn’t like three and a half inclines, so I was running uphill. So yeah, that’s on this weekend. So we’ll see how I do.

What is it called?

It’s a Spartan race.



Is that tell us a little bit

About, I don’t know. I know there’s obstacles. I gotta climb over high objects. Jump through fire, crawl through mud, Barb wire.

I’ve heard the water’s cold, but occasionally you run into a warm spot, swim around the warm spots. That’s what I’ve heard. Oh gosh.

Disgusting. Thanks Josh. What could

Happen? You get it cold water. Sometimes it makes your body think it needs to do certain things. So swim around the warm.

I just have a question for you guys. When Josh comes up with this, these little things that he comes up with these little sayings and whatnot, do you ever wonder, like where’s mines been?

It’s a scary place. I was talking. I was talking with my wife last night about this. I, I, I wish it was something that I didn’t have because it, I can’t, I can’t tell you what came through my mind and what brought it up last night, but I just came into town and all it was was simply seeing someone’s vehicle in front of their house. And I thought just came to my mind and I, I,

I, what was it?

I can’t tell you it’s public, but I, it was just, was

It their own vehicle in front of their own house or was it at somebody else’s vehicle in, in front of a may

Have used to be their house.

Okay. So they were doing a visit, a called visit don’t is that what you were talking about?

We’ll finish after, but I


I just

Such a snooper guy the

Best I can look out through my door and I can see his mind running. And I’m like, Jason makes a comment and I’m like, Josh is, he’s got something brew.

Well, and then all of a sudden, Josh is a little mustache. Well kind of change positions. You know, he is grinning. He’s got some thoughts going through his head. We’ve got mixed company in the office. So he’s walk. Yeah,

I’ve got, I, I believe it or not. I do have a filter. It’s pretty big. Like the, the holes and stuff get

Through is pretty big,

But it would scare you. The things that stay in there.

Well, what’s funny, scary. I’ll be driving through town just, and I don’t wanna bug Josh. So I’ll drive through his town, which is, oh, an hour from here, whatever hour and 15 minutes. And invariably, he sees me every time. Right? It is. Hey, what were you doing? Guessing up at such and such. You know, I don’t know. I don’t there. I don’t know. Leave me alone. And then I’m driving down. Hey, is that you in front of me? God ends. I just, what are you doing? Well, I’m just coming up to look for a place to eat like Jan. And I just went for a drive

And I was just going to buy a shovel that’s

Hardware. So I dunno, it’s you

Can, Wyatt may have texted me and said, Hey, Jason’s his truck’s moving. I’m

Getting the



His tractor moving. It looks like it’s coming to

Penguin. Tell me eye. Does anybody do anything that Wyatt doesn’t know about? No. Nope, no. Nope. He missed his call.

In fact, I was teasing him this morning because when I was actually a biologist, but I ran into him on a road. He was just stopped glassing. And I had known him a little bit. I think I may have met him when I was a game war and talked to him as he was taking some hunters or something. And all I

Can say, we all know how much he loves game warden. Oh

Yeah. Yeah. And all I can say is he was investigating me as hard as I was investigating

Him. So funny. He may have had a tracker. You know what? Those new tags that people put on your luggage, he had an air tag on me. He had an air tag on your truck. Yeah. He didn’t know, knew nothing about it. Oh, well, anyway. So, so about Wyatt, you guys were talking about him missing some work. He missed work again yesterday. Kinda interesting. How does this happen? What going on? Well, I don’t know. I don’t know. You’re his friend. I’m not actually, I am his friend, but he doesn’t. He seems to answer to you a little better.

Let’s let’s just say he’s three for three on a concert weekend. And not being able to work a full week of work after.

That’s pretty crazy.

What’d we say loud on the last podcast country street jam divided by eight. So we’re not even halfway through. No,

He’s I mean, he’s got, he’s got concerts lined up. We know nothing about, but I, but in his defense, not like he loves him and he’s just doing some good deeds right now. He loves his wife with yeah. And he’s trying to be able to put some things on the calendar. So when other things come up, he’s got some mammo. Don’t you think? Oh

Yeah. He’s he’s playing at smart. The beats

Going to Disneyland. Like

He says, yeah. Yeah. He got sick yesterday. He was sick as a dog. And he says, you know, you know the good thing about being sick? Well, I, I had some family things that I was supposed to go to. Somebody was having a kid and I didn’t have to go. I said, let’s see somebody having a kid getting sick. And he, he chose getting sick.

He was, he was pretty

Sick. He was sick. And I think because he had actually listened to the last podcast and felt like he needed to come defend his honor at work a couple days,

But later, but he’s still not here.

I think that’s why he stayed yesterday. Cuz I, or two days ago. Cause I think he was gonna try all he could Tuesday

He’s like, this will be three weeks in a row. Yep.

Said he was in rough shape, said he was in rough shape. But anyway, there’s been a lot going on. We had the Arizona results come out also the secondary draw for Colorado. You know that deadline. What was it? July two days ago. July 5th. Yeah. Yeah. And the results are out today. We have kids that have tags. How about that, Josh?

Yeah, they were stacking ’em up.

How does it feel? Well,

It, it,

It, you’re now $3,000

Yesterday. It would’ve felt great broker. It would’ve felt great yesterday. Cuz I had a master plan in mind, partly to think, okay. Now if I’m down there hunting, I had to put my kids in. I’m gonna be down there anyway. Might as well just take one of ’em with me. Two of ’em with me if they draw. But, but then it’s, you know, that’s the, obviously the best plan there is. And then you, so you apply that way. Thinking that’ll be the best plan and then couple things change overnight and then

Mean like a landowner tech.

Yeah. And then next thing you know,

It was overnight. How much did you sleep last night?

It was

About now. So rare tag, a rare tag came available and I hit the guys and said, Hey, Hey y’all and Josh replied and more enthusiastic than most so that I hit him on the side with, by the way, you should be doing this.

Yeah. And so I did, and then here we are six hours later and actually one of my kids draws the master plan unit. So diesel diesel’s cheap. So we’re going twice. I guess.

Diesel’s never been cheaper. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what the good. Have you ever thought about running that biodiesel in, you know, going down to, you know McDonald’s and getting the oil. Oh yeah. And making some, I

Had a buddy that was trying to do it in his garage and it, I went and visited the site one time. And if you think this floor in McDonald’s is slippery.


Ever been to a church’s chicken? You still fly, right? Yeah.

Oh geez. It’s disgusting. It

Was, it, it didn’t feel safe to me. So,

So you’re not gonna put five diesel in your brand, new brave.

Maybe trying to throw some dye diesel in it. Oh

Don you’re saying that out loud.

No, I would never do that.


Can put probably not that truck who knows with diesel

And it helps then mix it. Yeah. Something


I’ll just start. I

Don’t know if I’m adding some vegetable oil

To it. Every now do brand new vehicles. Nice. Yeah. All right. Okay. So anyway, we’ve got kids and women and children with tags. Devin. You’ve got a lot going on too. You’ve got a lot going. So

I like it. I told myself I was gonna slow it down a bit this year and

No I don’t. It’s not possible. I have slowed it down.


Don’t know. I, I I’ve got some heavy, I’ve got some heavy crap, but it’s less numbers of heavy crap.

I think you might be going harder on less.


Yeah. But that’s good. That’s

A good point. Yeah. Focusing more on yeah.

Instead of focused. Yeah. Yeah. Well it’s time to kill something, you know? Yeah. I’m so it is, I am. I, I, I, I do have, I, I am pretty picky, I guess. So

I, so we also talked about how now is the time you have kids right. In that prime age of teenagers. It’s like make a memory. Yeah. That’ll last their, their entire life. Yeah. And so that’s, that’s worthwhile. Yeah.

That’s what like this whole tag that I put my son in that he drew, you know, it’s is it gonna be weird? Is it gonna be tough? Two trips to Colorado just for him, whatever. But he’s only gonna be able to do this for four years. Yeah. So this might be the only time we actually get a secondary tag and get to go hunt with it. He’s still got to get his point. Didn’t cost him anything. It’s basically like picking it up off a turn

Back list. It’s pretty awesome.

So we’ll go do it because it may be the one time in his life. He’ll be able to grab a tag like that. And, and so why not? You

Know, I’m still waiting to see if my, my kids drew in the secondary draw for elk. I think the deer results are loaded. Yeah. My elk, the elk, I haven’t been charged and it still shows, you know, that basically they applied, but I don’t see the results. So anyway, hopefully, hopefully they will, you know, end up drawing elk tags to go along with those deer tags at same season. Be kind of cool. You know? So just, we’re always kind of contemplating some of those things, John, you’ve gotta landowner our tag this year. Yeah. In Colorado. Huh?

Time to add a land on our tag, through the mix. Yeahm excited.

It’s pretty awesome. Yeah. It’s so fun. And I love like, like vehicles. I love it. When you all buy stuff, I love it. It’s like I bought it. You’re a good cheerleader. Yeah. You know, you are, you are, I am right. And


Everything Devi. I Devin’s tag Josh’s tag John Adam. That one came from Adam. But I mean, but I’m, I’m there to help you guys

Like sometimes when you’re excited about a purchase, if you need somebody to be excited for you or with you, I, Jason, is that guy. I, it makes it

Pretty fun. I, I can tell you all the positives. I don’t even remember any of the negatives.


Anyway. Pretty awesome. I love it. I love it. I love this time of year people call in too. I like talking to people that are drawn, drawn tags and things. But as we’re talking about this kind of stuff, Devin, Spartan, race, you know, Ironman competition. Pretty awesome opportunity. But


Hold on. Racing anyone.

Well, I mean, and if you don’t, you went, did the three peaks, right? You went and did the, what? The peak to peak to peak north. No,

I didn’t make it to the

Peak peak.

Where did the goat picture go

From? I was way up there amongst the mountain goats, but I did not make it to the peak.


Wow. The worst part about that is you’ve already talked about it on the podcast. And so now we gotta have a follow up. It’s not like

You can do it it down. I can’t

Do 30 burpees. You know, if I fail,

Did you have to pay money to, I

Might be hobbling on Monday.


You got a blistering and you didn’t even make to the first that’s right. Big blistery. Yeah. I got a first blist you’ve ever had me

And Josh at lunch yesterday. I bought some small skin at Walmart.

Josh, did you have to teach him what Mo skin is? Cause he’s never had a

Blister. Yeah. I’ve never have on my feet ever

Until we were gonna get him some, some like panty hose too, to put on.

Well, those help, right? That’s a, that’s like a liner, a sock Lineer.

I say they do. So, but

I tell you this I’m in a lot better shape right now than I was even mid fall

Last year. And this is because you signed up for this race. Yeah. Did again, did you, you paid money to sign up though? Did, did they charge you they

Hundred bucks? Yeah. Yeah.

Hundred bucks. You’ll never get back

The bad part.

You’re in shape now.

Yeah. The bad part was though. I was trying to tell him if you’re gonna go with the panty hose thing, I

Knew it. See, this is where his mind

Is that he needs to

Talk about that

He needs to stick with just like the nude color, you know? So it’s maybe, maybe that’s his leg. Maybe it’s pan Hills that you don’t

Know. You’re not want like the black

Stockings. And, and he was like, okay, that’s cool. But I, I couldn’t convince him that fishnet would probably cause extra blister. He should go with just the smooth.

So did he go with the fish net?

There’s no smooth pan Hills that could cover up my leg

Hairs. Like I say,

I see a definite line.

We went to self checkout so he could save his honor. I don’t know.

Then all of a sudden the alarm went off and you have to be a certain age. I just took off to be a certain age. Yeah.

It’s always awkward. So

Little. I see somebody deeply, the

Little old lady wearing old lady wearing the cat ears, tried to run him down. I dunno.

I had propane tanks, game bags and

Panny hose. No,


The kitty cat ears have to step over the litter box to get out the door.

All right, this is, we’re done with this stop. We’re done with this. So as we’re getting ready for the fall, I want to kind of talk about some of the things we’ve been doing to get set up Devin, whoever y’all, everybody’s been getting set up with archery, you know, I’ve set up a Muzz loader. We were shooting long range. It was awesome. Set up a couple of rifles and just kind of going through that process of, you know, even set up a, a thermal rifle, scope adapter with Leica, for predators and Idaho, I’m kind of half excited about thermally option up there for wolves, like crazy stuff. Right. So anyway, we’ve been kind of going through some of these things and, and sometimes I just got like to get set up. It goes back to the John taught telling me I just get excited about stuff. I may never even freaking use it, but I’m excited to work on it. You know what I mean? So anyway, so Devin and, and Josh, you set up, did you set up a bow this year? Yeah.

Let’s talk still in the process. That’s are you, yeah,

It’s kind of a process these days. Yeah, it is. Bowes are sensitive. Like I got one set up and I’m like, I don’t even wanna deal with a new setup. Like I, I just the setup alone it’s regardless of the money or whatever, just the time and effort and energy into and stress. Yeah. But Devon, you said yours, a setup perfectly now? Yeah. Like what did it take to get to

That? We’ve bonded. And that’s important

Devin. And is bonding with like, like this old Tundra that won’t, he doesn’t dare take out state for some reason he can’t break the bar. Why?

I don’t

Know. You can’t even take it out of town. Like you don’t even want to go to Modina. Right. You would take it to Modina


Probably, but you’d really pray during those non cell phone areas.

It’s man, it’s, it’s a hunting rig for 12 years. Like just doesn’t it’s life is, it’s had a good life it’s done,

But, but you can’t get rid of, it takes

Me to, you just

Wanna spend time with it now, but he can’t get rid of it. He still bonded to it. Yeah.

But my old bow that I used last year, I just, you know, it, I shot it good, but I just didn’t like, whatever you wanna call it, the bond with it or whatever. I just wasn’t.

I wonder if it was that in Colorado when it jumped off the cliff, I wonder if there was just a, a disassociation with that

Boat? No, even, even when I was shooting it, I just like, I shot good, but it just didn’t feel something. Maybe it was a draw length or a pee pipe or something just wasn’t

A quarter inch of draw length or especially half inch. Like you don’t is it pain enough to go down and change it and then you have to reset up everything? Yeah. Or do you just kind of deal with it? Well, and,

And the new bow I got this year’s the, the RX seven from Hoy. Yeah. I love it. The first, when I had Terry down in St. George set it up, he forgot, but he did it 70 pounds. Oh. And I was shooting it and I was getting it already and I shot it. Great. But the 70 pounds, like 12 shots, I was feeling it. And then I’m thinking half the stuff I’ve killed, I’ve been on my knees or, you know what I mean? And yeah. I mean seventies a lot for me. So yeah.

Well it’s a lot for anybody. I like a lower, I like a lower poundage, but I’ve held, do you remember that I’ve held draws for long, long periods of time. Yeah. And, and I feel like for me, that’s more important than shooting 80 pounds, 75 pounds, you know? Yeah. Like I wanna be able to really hold it. And sometimes you’re on your knees, lot of holding a draw for, even if it’s upwards of a minute and a half, two minutes. That’s a long

Time. Yeah.

That is a long time on top of emotion on top of 14 other things. I just, I like to be able to hold it, but tell, talk, talk about your setup. And so what you decided to do and how you did it.

I did, we, I bumped it back down to about 63 pounds, which is how all my other balls have been forever. And then the site, it’s a, I think it’s option archery. Okay. I have a, I have, let’s see a four fixed pin and then it, those pins will actually fold out to where you can’t see ’em and my bottom, which would be a 70 yard pin is my adjustable. Okay. So if I go to, when I’m gonna go to Kansas this year sitting in a blind or tree or whatever, you’re only gonna shoot 20, 30 yards just single pin. Right. But I have to have, I have to have multiple pins. I don’t, I would never hunt with just a single pin.

So, because you don’t wanna have to dial every time you don’t. I mean, and then when you dial, you gotta remember to dial back. Yeah.

You got a bull just crushing in on you. And you know, he is gone 10 yards closer. You don’t have to think. Yeah. You know, it’s just, yeah. I like, I liked that. I do


And then I did a, this is a first for me. I did a four arrow

Quiver. Okay.

Lighten it up little because I did a,

Because you didn’t use very many arrows on that Colorado elk.


Not in the same day.

Okay. Good point. But anyway, yeah. Yeah.

I figure, I’ve never

Remember. We used to just use six or five. We used six. I don’t fives. I’m into a five now, but we used

To. Yeah. So you’re adding bulk and just stuff and I’m like, yeah, I think I’ll just go with a four and then it’ll offset. Cuz that’ll save me some weight. Cause I did a back bar stabilizer. Okay. You can, you can put on there and I really do like that.

Yeah. Balances are better. Other

Than that, I think

It’s and you can reuse arrows. I’ve I’ve done it once or twice and they work fine. Okay. And so now how far are you, how on that adjustable? Just tell us like it’s okay. How far are you shooting? That sucks.

Target it. Go. I could shoot 130.

Are you shooting

130? I’ve shot a hundred a couple times, but I haven’t, I haven’t

Gone, but it’ll keep cranking down.

Yeah. I hit the fence line where I shoot and that’s it a hundred yards.

Yeah. Pretty awesome. Are you shooting good at a hundred?

Yeah. I’d kill something. Yeah. I mean it’s, I would never.

Yeah, but, but it makes 60 filter.

Oh yeah. And then you come up to 70 and it’s like, what you,

Yeah. That’s the good part,

You know.

All right. Josh talk, talk a little bit about what you’ve got going on.

Yeah. I have the same, the same bow, like I guess, except mine’s the ultra

Again. I love it. When you guys buy this stuff,


You weren’t getting outta the office without buying one. Right.

And in your defense, mine showed up first. So I had more time to that’s true. Set

Everything up. That’s true. But you know, I feel like the bow that I was shooting, it was a, it was a Hoyt carbon matrix. One of the first ones that they came out with. And it’s an old bow. I mean, I guess it’s almost 20 years old now. I, I

Feel like it is, I had a carbon matrix. That’s what I killed pretty boy with. And, and well, BTUs was a Matthews, but anyway. Yeah.

But like, like Devon’s saying you, you have a bow and, and that bow was actually a long story, but it was, I came down to a, an elk hunt and the bow that I was shooting, just got a new string on it and I don’t know what had happened. Something with the peep. Anyway, I went to go shoot and the bow pretty much exploded and there was something rubbing on the string and it cut the string. And this was a week before my elk count. I’m like, can’t get a new bow set up. A new bow, had a really good friend that had, had had one. This was his backup bow. And he was just like

The matrix.

Yeah. And we, you know, similar draw length and, and sight and all that kind stuff. And he heard and helped me got it set up. And it was just like, man, this thing’s awesome. You know? And since then I’ve killed deer, elk antelope with it. And it’s just kind of, it’s just a piece of you. Yeah. And I love that thing shoot so much. Yeah.

Well, and that was the first bow. I, I, I remember it’s kind of like your first experience with long range rifles. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like I was my first experience with a bow that really shot.

Yeah, exactly.

It really shot. Well, it’s kind of the new age, this new era of the last 20 years. Yeah. Of, of legit hunting. Yeah. Legit kill ability.

Right. And so I, anyway, I, I figured it was probably time to upgrade, you know, and I, and I did, and I, I love this new bow. I mean, to shoot those things, it’s unreal. The difference between those two. I mean, you don’t even like when they say dead in your hand, like literally there’s no shock. There’s nothing. It’s just like, we, wow. It’s, it’s unbelievable. But it takes time because I mean, they’ve adjusted the stabilizer on those, you know, they kind of have that, a new stabilizer that comes out off the limb almost where the rise and the limbs kind of hit, it comes out there and it’s this little shorty, but my other bow, I, I had a longer stabilizer on the front right. In front of your hand, essentially. And then I had a back bar on it. And so just trying to play with all that and I’m, and I’ve gotta get that slider set up, you know, I’ve got a five pin slider.

I’m like, Devon, I don’t, I can’t think of a time when I would’ve been able to dial when I’ve been hunting, unless I just, I’ve never, it’s always been at something that I’ve never been able to like, okay, take a second. Maybe it’s in my mind. I don’t want to, but I can think of anything that I’ve shot it’s I’ve had to just pull up and, and find the pin. And I don’t, I wouldn’t have had time to stop and dial that kind of stuff with one pin or whatever. It’s anyway, I go with the five pin and, and yeah, just trying to get that 20 to 50 set up so I can get that slider all set, but it’s not, it’s not easy. And part of me wants to just go get my old boat cuz I it’s already done, you know? Yeah. But you just have to keep going. And I mean, it shoots amazing and everything and it’s, it’s pretty, I had it shooting 50 this weekend and nice. I just wanna make sure it’s all all good before I get the type tape on it. How many

Times you think you’ve shot us since you got it and tried to set it up cause with these new tapes that we did yeah. You basically side in your 50 and then you overlay the, this tape to make sure everything lines up. So the 50 has to be perfect and I’ll bet I shot 200.

That’s what I’m at. I’m at the two to 300 range. Just, just because I wanna make sure because even then, cuz at the same time I’m trying to adjust stabilizers. I have a back bar on it and it’s out, it’s down, it’s out, it’s down. And you’re trying to so that when you pull up, the bubble’s gonna stay as level as it is when you first just come to draw, I’m still having to find myself trying to fix the bow one way or another. So I’m trying to adjust the stabilizers to help me fix that, to get it, you know, so that I know then, okay. The bow is where it needs to be. Be now I need to be on at 50 and it just they’re. Yeah. That’s one thing I found with like the new Bowes. They’re not finicky, but there’s the slightest little adjustment can, can really help you out. So it’s good to take some time and do it right. And I wanna make sure I do it

Right. It’s awesome. Well, that’s great. I’ve I’ve got mindset up from last year and I’m happy. I’m not touching it. It’s a spot hog. It’s adjustable and, and I freaking love it. And so anyway, this is the year it’s gonna happen. Yeah. Mark my words right



All it’s coming fast. We’re a couple

Weeks out. Oh yeah. No, that’s it all. I don’t know. Couple weeks, 33 days, couple weeks of deciding if you actually have to keep the tags you got, you know what I mean? I mean there, yeah. This new trail camera law of August 1st, like Josh, you were, you said it best this morning. What did you say?

I, I, I was felt like I was all about it six months ago. Why? Just because I, I know, I know how effective you can be with trail cameras. Okay. And what trail cameras can do for me that I don’t have to do myself. And here we are closing in on three weeks having to pull ’em down and I’m not as happy about it as I was. I’m glad we either so glad we could still use

Em. We’re very me neither. But I think we admitted, like even though we’re kind of in favor of, you know, we’re on the deer and outside of things of, you know, increasing our age class, doing what we can to, you know, adapt to the changing of tactics and technology and not having any laws change. It feels like now th there things are changing, right? The people are wanting change a bit. And anyway, I’m all in favor of having old animals. Well, older animals on the landscape and maybe a few get by because we are, you know, we limit that technology a little bit, but having said that it’s gonna affect me personally. It’s

Affecting me. Oh, it, it, I just think of the time, the time that I’m gonna have to put in now, instead of having a little thing on the tree, doing it for me, you know? So it’s just gonna cause extra time, but you don’t necessarily have a lot of these days when you have kids and family and work and just all kinds of stuff going on. And, and that was nice. Being able to be in seven places at once, you know today. And I can’t be, you know, after, after

You cellular camps right now. Oh yeah. I got

5,000 pictures of some morning doves on a water tank. It’s glorious.

What about old lump lump? You got

Waiting for one buck,

But yeah. He show today or yeah, he showed today.

Well, I actually had to switch it down. I was getting updates every hour. Put those morning doves that it was sending me 500 pictures of those two

Every hour. It’s a lot of

Notifications. Yeah, exactly. So I shut it down to two a day. That helps me focus too. So I don’t sit and watch my watch. Okay. Five more minutes and I gotta see what’s in there.

So anyway, yeah, there’s a lot going on. And, and with those adjustments course, Nevada has had that truck camera law in place. And now Utah, you know, we can’t run cameras basically after the end of July. So

We’ve had, we’ve had it good. And, and I didn’t realize how good we had it and how much useful they can be

And good meaning, you know, helped us kill stuff.

Right. Exactly. That’s what I mean, just being able to focus or if, if I’m hunting over here, I can still keep a camera up over there and say, okay, I need to go over there that, you know, as far as actually killing deer, I’ve got pictures of that sort of thing that kind of stuff’s minimal. But I think just overall it’s it can help you be a lot more effective.

Well, dude, there’s tags gonna be turned back because people don’t know of a specific animal.

Yeah. Oh yeah. A hundred percent.

That’s gonna save an animal because not that that tag won’t be reallocated, but if that guy’s turning it back or gals turning it back, they’re pretty serious. You know, they’re very dedicated to hunting specific trophy or something

Legit. Well, and it’s crazy. So this morning on my drive over, I was, I thought I was pretty crazy in relation to what we were talking about yesterday saying, you know, I only have couple more weeks to see what Atler, growth’s gonna be like before you making a decision, you know? Yeah. You’ve got a buck, that’s got a four point frame already and may or may not have something else on there. And, and this morning I saw a buck that looked like it wasn’t a yearling buck. It wasn’t gonna be a two point or a spike, but he looked like a three year, your three year old deer. And he was just barely starting to fork at, off his beam. And it’s just crazy to think if that buck was in your camera, you think this is terrible. I need to turn it in. But then if you have this other buck, that’s already half grown out, you say, okay, this buck might turn into something it’s

Well, and

They can help you that way.

For sure. Right. And what we’ve got is like, for example, the Utah archery starts what, August 20th, 19th or 20th. Yep. And your 30 days prior to that, you have to have it turned in. If you wanna get your points back and they’ll give you all your points, I’ll give you everything you had prior to the draw. They won’t give you this year’s point. But if it’s, you know, within 30 days, 29 days or whatever, they don’t give you your points back. So by July 20, you gotta decide if you’re keeping a tag or not any of the guys that drew archery, that’s pretty significant. Right. That’s come out and what’s built. What’s built by July 20th. Elk.


Yeah. Deer not built. And, and you know, I’ve seen deer like even in like Nevada, specifically Buster, I mean, he grew from not even a consideration to number one on the list in 10 to 15 days, it was crazy what he put on from August 1st to the 10th.

So that, that kind of reminds me not, I not changing the subject in the slides. We actually had a question. So we asked to do a question and answer podcast that we’ll probably be doing here next. I would imagine the next couple. Okay. We had a actually question a question. Yeah. We got a lot of questions, which is a pretty awesome.

I get you see by his face. He’s already grinning. Like you can’t wait to ask this

Question. Oh no. It’s it’s it’s it’s a good question.


Legit. So it, it, this guy actually sent this in Kevin billows from Nevada. He has a question and it says any thoughts. So I guess we might do a couple of these and then we’ll do a full on question and answer, I guess, but it kind of, we don’t wanna wanna answer it twice, I guess, but it say his question. Well, has any thoughts on why some bucks seem to finish out in mid-July but others blow up the last part of July. First part of August seems if they are on good feed, they would grow. But that isn’t always the case.

Yeah. I don’t know my, you know, my thoughts are, and, and you guys, you guys, we all have our theories, but some deer consistently year after year develop early, just like they shed early.


I mean, it’s yeah, that’s right. And they shed earlier, so maybe they’re starting to grow earlier. So then they finish out earlier, you know what I mean? And so, but like, I remember pipes, we hunted pipes, these are 220 something inch, but time we killed him and, you know, we watched him for four plus years, but anyway, he would finish out early. He’d finish, like at the end, toward the end of July, he was one of the rare bucks in Nevada that, and down south in the desert hot freaking desert. And he would finish. And I’m like, that’s a freaking he’s 2, 2 0 5, 2 10 already. I can’t believe it. And other bucks are like, feels like half grown. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so, but it was every year. It wasn’t like he grew early, like one year he finished out early in the other years, he was normal. He finished every year early, he earlier than every other deer that I remember. And so, and you’ll have a group of bucks, you’ll have a group of bucks. There’ll be shanks only to, to forks. Right? Yeah. To, to a major deep fork buck. I mean, why is it, is it, is it the deer? Is it, is it just like humans and puberty? You know what

I mean? I, it wouldn’t surprise me. I mean, you, you think about even as when that maybe had to do with, when that deer was born in its life, you know, you see a lot of deer, obviously I think around June 16th, at least here in Utah, that was kind of the peak of the fawn drop that they’ve noticed statewide. Yeah. That was kind of the peak, but there were obviously some fawns that were two weeks sooner. And there were some that were almost a month later in some cases. And you think about the, the rut. I know I’ve seen several times, you’ll see a buck still towards Christmas time Rutten when you’ve had bucks that are rutting the brains out in, in November, you know? And so there’s obviously there’s a month lag in there and I don’t know, this is just my theory, but it cuz some of it could be with, with even when that F was born and timing of year, if they’re a little later, maybe they’re just not putting on some of that. They’re taking longer to shed taking longer to, to grow. I don’t know.

And with that, there’s so much to play with there is. And with that, and you also have geographic areas, right? So up north you’re gonna have, em, it seems like finish a little bit earlier, even Rud a little bit earlier, like Northern Colorado seems to Ru earlier than say Gunison or swatch or whatever, or especially that Alamosa valley country. Yeah. Just they rut late and New Mexico. They rut in December. Yeah. Like it’s just, it’s the way it goes. And same thing with Arizona, you know? And so I just, you know, it also is coming to mind when I’m, when I’m scouting these areas right now where these bucks are far from finishing because in their geographic area they’re known to finish late. Yeah. I’m in country right now. That’s known to finish late, very frustrating to me at five something, a gallon and, and whatever

Cameras and get nothing with

Beams. Yeah. I’ve got shanks I’ve, I’ve got shanks 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and six that I’m really excited about.

And if you only have a, a couple weeks left to turn a tag back,

That’s significant problem. Yeah. You know, and, but again, is that gonna save animals? I mean, it’s, it’s gonna save, it’s gonna save some

With that. I’ve seen groups of bucks, so it’s not the feed, right? Like this group of six, seven bucks running together. And there was one, it was the last book I killed with my bow. He, it was, it was about this time of year, 1st of July. And I was like, man, that Buck’s heavy, but he’s just, he’s not gonna finish. Yeah. All the other bucks were normal looking good. And I, he, I killed him because of a trail camera by the way. But yeah, he finished,

I saw bigger than the other

Buck. I saw him in like 1st of August and I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Like I could tell it was saying big old bases, heavy. Yeah. I killed

Him. And I wonder if I wonder, like you’re saying big old bases. I wonder if maybe some of these older deer just putting more into the girth and the freaking shank and you know what I mean? And there’s just a little more calcium going into the building of the overall frame. And these other bucks are putting on 160 inch frame,

But he was, he was with that same group the whole summer. Yeah. So it’s like, they’re feeding together. It’s just how he

Is. Just the way

He is. Well, and if you, I mean, if he just sat there and, and was feeding, everything was kind of going into his body for the most part. And he was just kind of growing. And then if he’s a late, late grower and now you get monsoon start kicking in, now there’s still a month to grow for some of those deer. And if he’s getting good, fresh feed and he’s in good condition, cuz he is been feeding heavy, you know, in spring, I think that has a potential, it could

Blow up. That’s what, and I like that. I like what you’re saying, because there’s guys talking about the Navajo saying, you know, the Navajo reservation, which is largely in Arizona, parts of New Mexico turn of monsoonal country, you know, monsoons have been pounding it and they’re late growers and that’s gonna help them. Yeah. Same with the Kus deer down south. Like you’ve got, you’re dealing with a lot of Kus deer, these monsoons, same thing with like the limiteds let’s call it the limited opportunity areas. The 17 through 20 units in, in Arizona, as well as the COFA and all that country. You get these monsoons, they grow.

It’s almost like they’re mid may right now.

Right? Yeah. Which is right. Yeah. And so we’re fighting for a monsoon type experience in may here, April, may in Utah, Nevada. Like when that happens, that’s odd. But when it happens, we have incredible years here. Yeah. They get monsoons pretty regular down there. And so a lot of times they’ll have that great growth even though we may be technically in a drought. Does that make sense? Oh yeah.


So kind of exciting. I, I know up north, you guys have seen Devin, you’ve been driving up there pretty regular with your in-laws and, and family and whatnot. It’s pretty awesome feed. Like people

Haven’t, it’s like a whole new world compared to here. It’s green. It’s like yellow. Isn’t that wonderful is amazing. Yeah. Was in the difference a four hour drive can make

This last weekend. I was in country that I have rarely seen and that’s Aspen, Aspen. Good. I, Hey, it’s pretty. We slept out. It was like, man, this is enjoyable. I’m used to like, I stick myself in the desert usually. And it’s, and it’s now it’s just habitual. But it’s, you know, back in the day when I was a little kid, it was just to get away from people like the desert has animals. Nobody knows about way more animals in the game. And fish knew about, you know, now I think people wised up to it a little bit and trail cameras helped us learn all that. But man, it’s kind of nice to be in green country. What’s wrong with that?

Pretty, this last weekend I was up there. I’m like, this is nice,


I walked across to snow drift, you know, gorgeous flowers. Yeah. Flowers. Yeah. How nice is it to see a flower once in a while? It’s

Pretty nice. You know,


Pretty soon you got a EVAs of flowers

For rain. You wake up and I got this for you. You wake up in the morning. It’s actually cool. Yeah. Instead of the desert where you’re just,

Yeah. So nice. Well, anyway, in some of this country over here is having hail storms and I, I don’t know, we’re, we’re coming into the monsoon season. We’re hoping it gets here sooner than later in some of this other country. But then a lot of, lot of country there in Arizona, Josh, you were showing us some maps. Talk about that a little bit.

Yeah. A lot of that stuff it’s, they’re pushing, you know, it used to be extreme drought and now some of it’s going to drought lessening, and even some of it they’re talking about drought being taken away or being gone, you know? So,

So like the maps are show basically these are some major drought areas. And then it’s saying, you know, here, this area was in the drought. It’s looking like we’re gonna take it out of the, whatever a drought notification. Yep. I don’t know what

You’re. Yeah, pretty much. It’s yeah. It’s just kinda an index they have and it’ll come and go. But that’s a lot of that stuff you are talking about down there in Arizona and New Mexico. I mean New Mexico there having 300,000 acre fires a month ago and now it’s flooding and you know, it’s just crazy. It’s pretty crazy.

I talked to some Outfitters down there told me they got four to six inches at their house. Geez. Constant drizzle like,

Wow. Yeah. Well let’s, let’s take a break for a real quick second talk about red rock. I I’ve just I’ve set up my red rock. I actually put a new scope on it. And that’s the one thing we were talking about our setups. I actually went down. I like a, kind of a lighter weight scope. And with those lighter weight scopes you, a lot of times you don’t have the range of adjustment, you know? And so you end up with a 900 yard rifle, which is wonderful. And I haven’t, well, we did, we did shoot an elk, 1,030 with a, a, a different rifle that was actually scoped a little different. But anyway, this red rock I have is totally capable of that if you have the arrange of adjustment. And so I went down and ended up putting on a 20 MOA rail that I had Kurt Pilcher up there at red rock, send me and kind of recod it.

So to speak. And I freaking love it. But anyway, shooting 1200 plus yards with a lightweight little sheep rifle. I mean just, you know, and it’s a 30 Nosler, but just awesome, awesome company to work with. They, they care about their product. Just wanna shout out to Redrock, precision Redrock, And they’ve got a custom gun builder, kind of a, what you would call a little program on their website. You can go through and look at some different options, whatnot and give ’em a holler as well. Great people, incredible products. And you’re just not gonna see me getting rid of my red rock anytime soon promise you that. But anyway, it’s been fun kind of repoing that as I get older, I mean, are you guys, do you guys like the illuminated radical? Just tell me, like, am I the only guy in the world that likes the illuminated? I like it. Maybe we’re getting old.

I, I

Don’t think we are getting old. We’re dang near 50. I know that’s not

That old. Right.

But it’s,

I love nice. I love it. I’ve got one. I just put on a gun last year and it was kind of one of those functions I had never, I I’d shot a red dot scope, you know, on a muzzle loader before, but never on an actual rifle scope. And it was a feature that I never thought I wanted or needed till I did. And I wouldn’t buy one without it now.

And that’s what, it’s unbelievable. I put on a, I put on a SW you put on his ice, right? Yeah. And, and anyway, I ended up going with, with swirl, of course, Devin, Devin loves it when I buy stuff too. And he had, he had a hand in which model we chose and, and it is it’s, it’s an incredible it’s piece of equipment. It’s

An awesome scope.

And it’s got, I like that the middle,

But that’s, that’s one thing I was gonna bring up. I have an illuminated radical and it actually does the whole thing. Right. And I’m not a huge fan of that, to be honest, I I’ve never used it. I might need it. Yeah. But the fine dot that’s

What you need. So this is, and that’s what I’ve got because you

Can adjust it. I agree.

It is. And my other one, I actually have a night force on one and it it’ll light up. I mean, it’ll light up. Yeah, yeah. Christmas tree. Yeah. But I’m, I, I like that little red dot and actually I was out shooting it and of course it’s getting dark as we all, we all do. We try to work. We try to be the get father of the year award husband of the year award and then do a little shooting on the side and I’m out there just dark and I’m dude, I’m hammering them at 900 a thousand. And I would not have been able when you put black on a darker target at dark, you can’t see. Yep. Yeah. But when you two, just a little bit of a red tint,

Just that contrast is all you need. Oh dude.

I mean bed. It, it extends your time. And so I think that’s what happened to you. I mean, you hammered a buck. Yeah. Basically it was in that weird lighting.

It was, he was kind of, the sun had just sat behind him. So there was, it was extremely back lit you know, not a, not physical sun shine, but just the amount of light coming up from behind him. And he was a dark side of the Ridge, a dark deer, a dark target. And that, that scope I have, I actually got the fine, it has a fine cross air. And I probably won’t do that one again, cuz I turned 40 a couple years ago


My eyes suddenly started to get a little bad too. But, but you just, you do notice. And all I had to do was I got down on him and I can’t make this shot and then, oh yeah, I can turn the illumination on. And I, like you said, I kicked it to like a two and it just barely turned the line a different shade of contrast. And it was like, oh geez, that’s good. And it’s the same thing. It’s, it’s a tiny little cross that’s in the middle of it. You know? And like’s fine though. Yeah. It’s I mean, it’s just, and it’s your point of hold some of those scopes that the whole radical illuminates, I feel like I get a Starburst effect to it a little bit when it starts to get lower light, the, the scope just glows a lot

In the, I like it when your eyes just focused one little fine doc. Yeah. I, I just love that. Well, speaking of that, I think we have a few of these products, Josh, that we’re actually kind of what we call a demo, but not, not a real demo. Hasn’t been mounted on a rifle. Yeah. But, but ones that we’ve shown people and kind of handled a little bit.

Yeah. It’s one of those things we’ll get in a, you know, they’ll come up with a new radical or something like that or this whole illuminated thing. And we say, yeah, let, let’s just, we wanna physically look through it to be able to tell somebody or say, yeah, I want that on my scope. Cause you can out all that’s happened to it. Yeah. You look through it in a magazine and say, okay, that’s a good radical, but you need to pull it out and look at it. Right. And, and to not do that with all of our scopes, you know, we have a couple that we’ve done that with just to see. But, but yeah, we actually have one of those Zeis V4 scopes we’re talking about.

Yeah. And

It is illuminated illuminated.

And then we got some V six S and we’ve also got even a, you know, a vortex. So you know, one of their state of the art. Yeah. So if there’s something that you need, we can make you a deal like a smoking deal. And so anyway, just call in, you know, probably be best to talk to Josh or Devin. Yeah. Anyway, they, they’ve got got ’em on hand. Exactly what we’ve, what we’ve got available in that. And of course, there’s, there’s a few other items as well. If you’re looking for something in the swirl lineup, you know, BTX or 95 millimeter objective pair of fifteens come to mind of, of just we’ve been through the show season. And now we’re just getting ready to hunt and got a few items that we wouldn’t mind making a guy one heck of a deal on. So anyway, as we move forward, John, I, we just, this past weekend I took the razor. We have the epic razor. Yep. Pretty unbelievable. Freaking unbelievable. Yeah. I did a hundred. So the one thing, not a hundred miles an hour, I was like, okay. But I might have you drive faster than I do. Trust me,

Better get a

Spare belt somewhere. So when we go to lunch, Adam hates it. When I put on a seatbelt, why would you hate it? If a guy’s trying to be safe, you know? Well, a

Of the time people’s, car’s dinging. It’s annoying. So you

Want be right? And I fix the ding. In fact, we did a little family vacation up in Hawaii. We rented a van and I fixed the ding for him. I didn’t even charge him. Em, it’s a brand new van has 3000 miles. That’s just fire miles. No that’s cuz I can YouTube it. It doesn’t mean that anything you can, YouTube’s not gonna put you in jail. And so anyway, I fixed the ding. Hold on,

Let me write that down.

I fixed the ding and nothing flat. I mean, it was just like, even if you’re just trying, you’re just getting in the car. You just want to go gas up. Nothing. Say Josh you’re

Hometown. Yeah. Or you could just get on a dirt road. I hate wearing my seatbelt out the house.

I hate it. Freaking hate it. So in a Chevy you can unhook, you climb in there under your seat and unhook the freaking manually unhook it. You can still do it on the news. Have you

Ever done a Tundra?

No, I don’t remember. Yes, Chris is. Yeah, I yeah, old one. The old one, not the newer one was the new one. You have to you, they can do it for you. You have to tell ’em you’re a farmer and threaten you’ll never buy another product from again or something like that. I remember on mine. It’s computer or you go buy a receptacle and on, you know, some junkyard and just snap it, plug it in the fake receptacle. Yeah. That the, the lights on the T used to bother me, those orange lights. And so I actually just undo the bulbs. You know, mine

Will turn all the way off, but yeah, that ding like on a dirt road, you jump out to get gates or whatever. I

Hate that. Hate it. So you gotta, so in the razor, go ahead.

No, I just say I had a DWR truck want same thing and I, I always wore my seatbelt when I was driving that truck, especially

On company

Time, right? Yes, exactly. But when, as I would sometimes like pull in my driveway, oh I just click it real quick.

And that’s what it bothered you. Yeah. Yeah. And, and,

But it was like this whole process. Was that what yours was, was like, click it, click it, click it. Park was neutral. Get out one foot, stand, turn back in, turn

Lights on out this van. Oh yeah. Well you turn it on, but you don’t start it. Turn it on. Turn you turn it on. And then when the, when the seatbelt light comes on, you unclick click do that three times and the seatbelt light comes off cuz you left. It clicked. And then when you turn it off, it’ll ding and then the lights off, you

Know what I mean? Yeah. But it has to all be done in 6.2, five seconds. Oh that’s right. It’s worth it.

It pressure for

An hour. It took me three times. It was pressure. I couldn’t form. I couldn’t perform on

Worth it. Pressure it’s worth it. Yeah. So anyway, but that come, come back to the razor. Yes. You gotta have it when Josh, you and I, I gotta adjust this. You and I were in your side beside. Yeah. And remember when it was so dusty that he caused us grief. Was that what it ended up being?

Yeah. Yeah. It was. I actually bought, they sold my brother-in-law has ’em cause he has one too. He bought some little thing that bypasses that you just click the two pieces together and it bypasses. But yeah, it was starting to almost like the govern was kicking in. It was lugging and stuff because of dirt

Of dirt,

It wasn’t making the seatbelt. Wasn’t making a good connection when it was

In. So I just a little little plug for some of these sport machines, the razor, instead of the general or instead of the ranger or whatever is you can go fast. It’s like really fast. And so I plug that thing in behind me and then you can run. Right. And you don’t have to have the seatbelt on, but there were times John, I, I put the seatbelt on, I put it over my body.


And that’s rare.

Right? I must admit. I mean, there’ve been times when I ride with you in the Hills, I put my seatbelt on.

It’s offensive to me.

I know it’s offensive. I’ve

Never wrecked. I’m dang near 50.

Yeah. Four I’ve been with you and four wheels are off the ground. No full size pickup. I, I did

It, but, but this thing. So my point, I guess with this triples, Polaris razor that we’re running the epic version. You can cover some freaking ground. In one day we did 160 miles ish. I did a 125 or 30 out here in Nevada. Crushed 30 cameras was home by 4:00 PM and owed my lawn. So I a got husband of the year award, got data of the year award. Cause my kids didn’t have to do it. And I did all my trail camera work and out there in this other part of the country, I crushed the cameras. Like it was my job cuz it’s, it’s hard to fit in work life, home life, make sure everything’s happy. You know, mix in some church you just end up, you’ve gotta, time is valuable. And I mean, we CR we crush the place. And so, and I’m not saying I wasn’t wore out or whatever, but I’m just saying, there’s a reason we kind of go with some of these sport machines. Yeah. And yeah, they’re fun. But a lot of it is they Colton set it up. I mean, changed up the gear reduction, made it to where it packs the weight, a lift major tires. I mean, Jared got in and he goes, these tires are bigger than my truck. I’m like, yeah, they are. They’re legit by the way, fill this, you know,

And off we go, but it’s, it’s unbelievable. So anyway, if you’re looking to get set up, you know, don’t hesitate to visit triple S Polaris 4, 3, 5 8, 6, 5 0 100. Tell him we sent you, but super happy. John, you came over and got it. And freaking went downtown. Of course. I don’t think you were supposed to do it downtown, but go ahead.

No, I mean, if you check it out, one of the great things about living in a small town living in Cedar city is they’ve made it legal on all the roads, but state highways are off limits. So

Aren’t you supposed to have blinkers and stuff?

Ah, I’d stick my arm out the window.

How about insurance?

We got, I have, I

Have a road kit on mine and one time I got out and my elbow, the horn first light dead go

Done with that done with it. I always pull the fuse on the

Horns. Yeah. It’s it’s over now, but

Even in trucks cuz you end up leaning on ’em you know glass.

Yeah, man, there might have to be some touching goes in Colorado. Lots with that trailer this year


From north, south east

West. Oh swapping. I don’t

Know. Well, I, I think just one more thing about triples is if you’re thinking about getting a machine, a lot of them now they’re saying with COVID the best way is just to, to call ahead and, and talk ’em through or talk to ’em about availability and stuff. You might have to pre-order and that’s the best way to get ’em

I’m so sick and tired of that. We’re in, America’s not to pre-order everything. John, you’re talking about steel shot cameras. You have to pre-order because of all the chips and the computerized parts that come from other places I’m tired of it. I don’t, but that’s our day and age.

It is.

It’s our day. It’s

Crazy. Yeah. If

You wanna go to on camera, if you go to dinner, you

Freaking sold out, sold out, sold

Out. I mean, people act like it’s their last meal and they, they, you know what I mean? And everybody’s doing everything. You can’t do anything without forethought. Yeah. You know, crazy.

Well, and I think that’s one of the things that you’re talking about, optics that we, we just loaded up. Oh yeah. During COVID and so we’ve got good stock on stuff. That’s hard to find. Yeah. So yeah, if you’re looking for something on optics too, give us a

Call. Even these smart range finders, we’ve got like the SIG range finders we have in stock. Those eight Ks are unbelievable. And that’s another thing when I was talking about my rifle set up, you know, I took out the SIG eight K. It was pretty unbelievable. And I talked about it a little bit earlier, but the, I also, I liked it. I don’t know dev and John, Josh, what, what you guys like to do, but I like to test it. Like I, I have a hard time. I go back to tape and stuff on the side of my stock. Like you remember how you used to have to tape on, you know, what you dial to, if you, unless you had a cut tour up for the yardage. Yeah. You know, you would say, well, you dialed a such and sucha or you use this radical.

I used to use the BRH radicals in the BRX and you would say this radical on this hunt and an average of th 7,000 foot in elevation and 55 degrees. The, this is where your radicals would come in at and you use an app to figure that out. Right. It’s all math based off of bullet drop and, and you know, the different environmental variables and whatnot. But I use a bullet drop app and it’s just called bullet drop. And I enter the, the weight, the ballistic coefficient, the muzzle velocity, your zero, where you’re zeroed at and whatnot, and then check it. Well, I went out to the range, did that and I threw in that great big old Muzz or bullet bullet 300 Grainer you know what I mean? But it’s cooking at 2,600 feet a second, did this whole app. And then it said to dial 26 minutes of angle, it went all the way around one and then came around again, you know, and dude freaking hammered the target.

Perfect within inches. I’m just saying like, guys that are listening to this, if you don’t have a smart range finder or whatever, like we can talk you through this over the phone, like don’t be scared of turrets. Don’t be scared of kind of this new age way. It makes 500 yards. I remember it. And I, my first big deer, you know, the second 200 nature, but net book non-typical 2003 guys used to laugh at me. The, the guys were just getting into long range then and I had a regular scope and I, I was proud of it. I thought it was awesome. And it was a 300 Weatherby mag. It was, it was a Remington 700 chambered in a 300 Weatherby mag. One of the rare and, and it was, it was synthetic with, it was synthetic stock and a stainless barrel. I was freaking, I, I, I thought I had the cat say, you know what I mean?

I mean the best of the best. And it just had the regular cross air. I can’t remember. It was con I mean, I was aiming, I’m aiming high, this and that. And long story short, the deer died. Okay. But to get it to the death point was a little bit of a struggle and it was 400 and something yards. Yeah. Okay. And, and my point is we we’re so much better. We know it was, it was nothing. That’s a chip shot. And I have guys asking, you know, on this particular hunt, you know, this gun I have is good to 500. Honestly, the gun gun he has is really probably a seven or 800 yard gun. No problem. It’s just a matter of learn of knowing how to use the, the equipment he has, even the equipment he has. And so if anybody needs help on that, we can talk you through that.

We’ve got maybe, maybe you add a range finder to your arsenal, and that helps you utilize the most out of your scope that you’ve got on it. Or maybe you need to sell the scope you got for a few hundred bucks. You can upgrade to a tour with a smart range finder or even a bullet drop app. My kids don’t have smart range finders, but they have guns that are a thousand yard guns outta the box, set up the scope. We went out and we were shooting. We were shooting 1100 yards with Justin’s rifle and, and all it was and bullet drop app, you can calculate that, put it on the side of your stock. And you just a regular range finder that would all angle compensate would be all you would really have to have, although we’re spoiled. And I like it when it just spits out a perfect exact value based off of all the environmental conditions that this little machine tells knows what it is. So pretty, pretty fun. Even the mus you’re like, I’m not gonna shoot a mu or 750 yards. But when I, when it’s nailing stuff at seven 50, I’ve all the confidence in the world at three and 400. Yeah. And it’s got enough energy to do it now. It’s like, it’s like throwing a rock. What time you get to 700? It’s gonna probably bounce off of something. I don’t know. It probably won’t nice smash it.

My elk last year, I was good out to 700 at the range. And I ended up killing it at 3d 50, so right. You know? Right.

Which in that have you, which in that country, in, that’s not a long shot. Really? Yeah. I mean,


Did it just kinda have to work

Shot though? Just

Yeah. Yeah, it did. You know, but I’d practiced out, you know, out to 700 and I, I was pretty confident. Yeah.

So I gotta throw you under the bus. All right.

Throw me on the bus.

Have you cleaned that? Muzz seriously? No,

I’m not.

It was, it was raining. Jason. It was raining the whole time.


It was raining the whole time that gun’s clean.

I’m never gonna shoot. Isn’t it again in my life. Isn’t it right

There. Yes. And the reason all clean it for you. The reason why. Yes. So black powder very corrosive know. I know. So I looked in this gun and I’m like this freaking thing hasn’t been cleaned. John’s like, no. And I’m like, it changes color like that stuff. It eats barrels. Like I have eight barrels. It took 20 something, 30 years that old night rifle. I wish it would’ve never pitted. And I was careful with that. But anyway, whatever you I’m just saying out there, the guys, your gear is good enough with a little bit of adjustment. Maybe it’s a scope. Maybe it’s a scope. And a, even a, a, a inexpensive range finder, a vortex makes a great inexpensive range finder and you could be shooting long range. And when you shoot, like, it goes back to this theory of you Devin shooting a hundred yards with your bow, it makes 60 feel like nothing 70 totally doable. Right? Yeah. It’s the same theory on these rifles. And so, you know, six, 700 yards. Just nothing. No, no

Problem. Well, and I think a key thing you’re that you brought up was you went out and tested it. Yeah. So your real world, testing your app, testing your equipment. Yeah. I mean, with Bowes, everything, like we talk about drawing or holding back a draw. I’ve been trying to do that lately. Be better at that. Like my last couple shots of the day. I’ll try to make it to two minutes before I shoot. It’s


Yeah. Cause you’re gonna have to do it. Yeah. Even if it’s 30 seconds in the heat of the moment, it’ll make you that much better. Yeah. Yeah. And like the other day you went shooting and I was like, you shot yesterday. It was like hurricane winds,

Dude, we shot.

But that’s testing

That’s it was, it was 50 mile. Well, I, I called the airport cause it logs the knots. Yeah. And then we did a knot conversion. It was like 49.8 miles per hour. And I was like, and, and Justin was holy crap. I don’t know. I mean, we still hammered it. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so,

But like, yeah. I always pick a calm day, but I shouldn’t, I need to go, you should go out and test it, see what the wind does.

And you talk to a lot of guys and like, like John was saying 350 yard shopping that that’s a long shot with a Muslim. It’s a long for sure. Muslim. But at the same, like that country, that you’re ins big canyons across canyons. A lot of times we’re in those burns, if you’re same level with them or something, you’re not gonna get a shot. Yeah. So you, you may have to get up and shoot across something. So a 350 yard shot is a reality in some country with them as a loader, you know, and, and a five plus with a rifle, you

Know? Well, and even it’s so thick, sometimes you have to get up a little bit. Yep. To see, you know, down into little openings. Yeah.

So, so it’s a reality. And I think a lot of guys, oh yeah, I’m good to 200. Well, that’s not gonna get you. You, you do need to practice it farther, farther than that.

So another thing with that eight K, that I’ll just mention out like technical thing. They come with those SIG sour range finders come with a wind meter. Well, in the past they have never worked with an apple phone. Oh really? And the new ones do they’ll Bluetooth to your apple phone. It just, they wouldn’t, they wouldn’t communicate with the apple

Phone, which means they could never really be marketable to a graphic designer. Right. Exactly. Because graphic designers only use apple. That’s right. You don’t even like my PC at all.

No. And I have to fix it all the time.

Didn’t you say that apple products never get like infiltrated with what do they call? ’em like a


I mean, parasites, virus, they can virus. They, lot of virus that’s


Get fungus. They don’t get virus

And they don’t slow down. Like mine hasn’t slowed down. Like I, I keep one for six years and it doesn’t slow down. Yeah.

Over, well, I know Devin. I had a Devin and Y love there.


You guys love Samsung active. I had for four years and I almost turned it well, we don’t want to go down that road. I miss it. Let’s just say that

You got an apple product now. Yeah. I can tell when you’re typing. There’s bubbles that come up. Yeah. I can tell when with messages a

Blue or something. Yeah.


I don’t know how

That works. Messages get delivered. It says delivered. I know he’s got it.

Yeah. Because I have an

IPhone because you have an iPhone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and

So when I’m out hunting and ignoring you guys, cuz I’m in the zone and you see delivered, you’re like he has service.

He knows he’s checked. Who doesn’t check their phone. You you’re checking for your WIS. You

Can turn that off.

But you can. Yes. BS. No,

You can turn that

Off. I’m turning it off. As soon as we’re done with this podcast, sometimes I want


Tutorial. Sometimes

You have to think about, but I don’t wanna offend them. Same thing with when people call you, if you just send it to voicemail, they know you got sent to voicemail.

No, I like the iPhones. I just don’t like how the photo conversions and all the WT

Hates. Well. And that’s also because you, you got a PC. So if you had

A Mac yeah. WT hates the alarm on the, on these. Somehow the alarm bugs him. I’m gonna have to ask him, we we’ll, we’re gonna call him in a minute. See if he’s working

It with, we probably need to make sure he’s still here.


That’s a good point. You might, he might have contracted COVID the last 15 minutes he has been vaccinated, but I don’t think he trusts that, but I don’t know. So anyway. Yeah. Triples, what El, what else? There’s a couple other things.

Well, let’s throw out a, let’s just shout out to plain St. James. If you’re looking for a, a hunting property or they specialize in like hunting and fishing type properties and have some stuff, that’s just, you know, if you’re ready to buy your dream place, you know, they, they’ve got some amazing places. So give them a call. 8 5, 5 7 1 1 S J S P or see them on the web at S J J S okay. Let me start that over SJ, sporting properties dot

Coms, you know, what’s, you know, what’s cool about his stuff. You’ll see it on Instagram or advertised or anything like that. He always has like trail cameras and stuff. And I’m thinking how many realtors are gonna involve trail camera photos of things on the property to try and sell property. That’s what I like. You know, you’re getting,

And he also knows he’s such a, he he’s a very avid hunter and trophy hunter. So he knows like the landowner tab program, he knows the value to a hunting side of a property. And so, yeah, he’s a, he’s a wealth of information. He’s also very savvy. If you didn’t listen to a podcast we did with the amount all 40 50 podcasts ago, where basically he’s pretty privy to the, the economy, local economies around that ranch. So like this ranch is a good value. You’re gonna, you know, never lose on it. So to speak. In fact, there’s actually growth and you may make a ton of money plus be able to hunt it. Like he’s, he’s thinking about a lot of those things. He’s very business oriented. He’s got a business mind, but he’s also an avid hunter and can help a guy from a hunting perspective.

So anyway, someday down the road, if I have a, you know, good chunk of change, which probably will never happen, I’ll be definitely giving him a call, but he does O he does work with smaller ranches too. So no matter how much money you’re willing to spend, if you do wanna invest in a hunting property of any kind, why definitely worth a phone call. He’s a, he’s a good friend of ours and he’s fun to visit with he’s. He’s a hunter. He’s one of us and just a super good guy. So anyway, and we talked about stealth cam, Josh. We ended up with some, my wife loves it when there’s new products that come in the office, we, we about had a parting of ways.

I just hit behind my computer.

We, we call my office, we call my office the fish bowl, because I’ve got, I’m surrounded like everywhere.

I look beta fish

Looking at me, you got beta fish staring at each other over top

Of you.

We had these cameras come in and, and Jan was like, what are these?


None your business. That’s the downside to having your wife work in your office. Yeah. There some things that are delivered the office that aren’t necessarily needing to go through the front office gals.

I, and I do wanna interrupt and admit, I kind of threw you under the bus. I don’t think I told you yet. No,

You, what,

What, well, Jenna came in and she’s like, what are these who’s like, where did these come from? And I didn’t know. And I said, I said, I, maybe I think Jason was gonna look at those or test them. Or, and so I said the word, Jason,


Knows, she knows, but next.

Yeah. Yeah. Next thing I knew I was clownfish between two betas going at it.


Typing away.


She does bless her heart.


A lot of good there,

But, but there’s some products that need to be tested and there’s some new cameras. Anyway, we’ve got a whole shipment of them now, but also a, a new camera that, that GSM outdoors promotes. And we need to ch test them and Josh, who better than me, you Devin and, and John to test some of these cameras. And so anyway, some new cellular type options. Of course, I had a buddy that’s like, Hey, cellular cameras and in Utah are outlaw. And I’m like, no, they’re not. Yeah. You can use anything you want up until it’s basically

Considered a regular camera. Yeah.

Yeah. So there’s times when it makes sense. And of course, we’re all jealous, cuz your big deer are in cell range and mine are, and it’s bother

Kind of bothersome.

So anyway, Devin, you’re talking about it too, even though you don’t have a tag locally, you’re kind of half thinking. You need to be knowing

What’s going on. I, I was thinking tomorrow or the next day putting one out, but I’ve never not, I’ve never put a camera there, not had it stolen. So this time I’m gonna get their face. You know what I mean? Are like, if you see an antenna there maybe they’ll think twice. Well it’s true. Like, oh, he already knows I’m here.

I put a fight cellulars without a box because it’s got this antenna and I do immediate downloads. Not unlike Josh. I like to see the doves, you know? So I do immediate downloads and I, I don’t care, Hey, come take this camera. You know? And you might, you might make social media. You know what I mean? So I think there’s a lot of truth to that. And that’s fun. Like, I mean, dude, you’re scouting from your desk. It’s pretty, pretty, pretty fun. But anyway, if you need cameras, we’ve got a ton of them. Give us a hollerer, happy to help you, you know, get set up. Of course there’s finite windows in a lot of these states. And then some states there’s no problems at all. You can, you know, New Mexico, they, you know, they’re re they’re gonna change their Muzz or the, the Muzz restrictions and a few things like that.

But I don’t see much change coming from what I’m hearing for camera usage or you know, some of these other technologies. And so they, and they, they like it. There’s a lot of crazy wild country in New Mexico. You all know that’s the way I feel about New Mexico. I love it. They, we name all our animals here in Utah, cuz we know about ’em all, you know, it feels like Utah’s just so aggressive, but you go to New Mexico, you could have a giant bull in unit six or 23 or 21 guaranteed. There’s big bulls. And nobody talks about that. You know, because a lot of people don’t know about ’em they’re just, there’s a lot of big, giant roadless, amazing country in that state and a low population base. We similar to Nevada, you got a couple of, you know, Albuquerque or whatever you got a couple of, you know, Reno or Vegas, but then there’s a lot of country with no people. So pretty fun. But anyway, I’m just wondering, do we don’t didn’t we have a question for Wyatt.

Yeah, there was I’m pretty sure it was specifically asked for him. I’ll hope to find it. Maybe


Thinking about, do you want to call him?

Yeah. I’m thinking about giving him a hollerer and then maybe what we do is we just visit with him for just a quick second and talk about a, what he is doing and if he’s still here and then, and then B maybe, maybe a concert goer question or something like that. I’m sure you’ve got something there for him specific. Okay. We ready? Ready? Here we go.

I found the question.

He’s not gonna answer call Wendy.

She’ll put us on park one and then



Her, I guess you have to call the office.

Oh, hold on. I’ve gotta calling in on the other line. Hey, what are you doing

Now? Just working.

Be us. Yeah. There’s a rumor going around that you don’t work, especially on concert weekends.


That’s what I’ve heard too.

Is it true or not?

That’s that’s what I’ve heard too. Are you go so sometimes you gotta take Mondays off to get caught up, I guess.

Are you gonna like defend yourself? What are you gotta say for yourself? You let these guys have busy Mondays on the

Road. Well only talks about the six fire months that you didn’t miss a day of work.


Bring up the two that you did miss.

It’s so true. I remember I remember the girls. When, you know, when you came in, you came in to work. Like I wanna say it was 8:20 AM and you, you were just dropping a truck off to get an oil change or something. And the girls were worried about you. Like they came in and they’re like, is why it okay? Like, is he okay? And I’m


Yeah, he is. And he is like, well I’ve just never seen him miss a day of work, let alone, you know, two 20 minutes. It’s a big deal. So

Anyway, why it’s the hub of this place? Every spoke, runs away from him when, when

His runs away is the key. When his, when his

Routine is off, all of us like something wrong, it

Breaks us. Does we don’t know what to do. I know it somehow. You’ve gotta clench. Hold on these guys. But why, you know, Josh had, we were, we were getting ready to do a question and answer podcast, you know, the next couple of podcasts, but we’ve interjected a couple of questions for this podcast and one is directly related and meant for you. And so Josh is gonna go ahead and read that

Question. Yeah. This guy actually asked two questions and, and so we figured we could use one. Now this is Garrison Kinsel and he says, because concerts were brought up on the last episode. I want to know from you guys, if you had to get up on stage with one artist slash band and seeing a song, what artist would it be? And what song would you pick? I guess, while you’re thinking about that, Adam I’ll Adam did leave his response. He said he would go back to 1983 and get on stage with Cindy Loper and sing. Girls just want to have fun. I’m sure it’s a sticky


That’s hilarious. So with

That quiet.


I could picture Wyatts singing. Girls just don’t wanna have fun, huh?

Yeah. That’s that’s a good response.

Wyatt. What would you be singing?

I, I think I’d have to go with like Billy Joe and the piano man.


Very good. Yeah.

See where I think I’d have to go with that.

All right. All right. Well Wyatt, so things have been cranking in our office. We’ve had Arizona results come out, all kinds of different things, but how’s your schedule looking. And have you been shooting your bow rifles? What have you been doing?

Gosh, you know, I haven’t been doing much besides concerts as, as you guys probably already talked

About there.

That that’s how my weekends have been spent. And

You got COVID yesterday, right? You had COVID.

I don’t know if it was COVID I had had a sickness. I don’t think it was COVID cause I’m I’m feeling good today.

Well, you went and got tested didn’t

You? Yes, I did test. What did they say? Made me test. They, I got negative. I didn’t go get tested. I had a home test at the place.

Do you think those Biden tests are even accurate? Really?

I, I don’t know, but my wife’s a nurse and she gave it to me. So


You, did, do you take everything she gives you?

No, I try to fight her on most things, but

Oh good stuff.

We, we did do that, so.

Okay. So you’re and then, but being sick yesterday, you did get out of a little bit of family stuff. So there was a little positive, little positive there. Yeah.

Maybe we need to edit that out


I dunno that she could be keyed into my,

Yeah. You’re

Good strategy. We actually weren’t recording Wyatt, so you’re good. You’re good. Wouldn’t worry about that

Little basic

Strategy. I’m just teasing you. That came from me. Didn’t come from you. All right. All well. Good. Is there anything you’re excited about? What do you got? Usually you’ve got a little anxiety going, some draw results or something else, but what’s going on today? Anything good?

I’m I’m relieved. The application season is, is officially done. Other than points only. We’ll disappointed. I didn’t draw any great tags, but relieved that it’s done.

You’ve got a great schedule lined up. Yeah.


So all right.

Looking forward to

Next year. Well, mostly Josh just wanted to make sure you were still here and you know, it’s four 17 and just making sure you were still here and you weren’t, you, you drink

Plenty of water today. Wyatt.

Plenty. Plenty of water. Yep. I haven’t tried your mountain spring water though. You you’re green aluminum cans. You’re safe. Oh, I, I drank the last one yesterday. Good. I, I figured

Pretty good Arkansas water. They say it’s the best. So all right buddy. Okay. Sounds good. We’ll get back after it. We’ll see you in a minute. All right. All right. Well, I think that’s a, I don’t know what we’re gonna talk about a quick

Story. You know, what’s funny. I just realized that there’s an inordinate amount of us who have wives that are either have been nurses or nurses or work at hospitals.

You know, we need

The good insurance. Kevin’s the only one. I’m the only one

And inordinate amount of us that get told what

To do day to day by. I was just thinking like

A hundred percent.

I mean, if my wife wanted to poison me, I mean, it’ll be easy. I, I just take anything. She gives me. I know she’s a nurse. You think

About this, John.

Okay. I’ll just do it. I just,

They say all women are crazy and every one of us are taking anything and everything that they give us.

I don’t know. Just

Know. Just say it, just say it all right. Well, are we about done or do we need to leave a story? The bonus story on the end? Huh? Oh, I think we were talking about shot placement Devin. We were gonna talk a little bit about shot placement and I there’s something that always sticks with me and I, and I, and it was, it was my dad years and years and years and years and years ago said, you know, at times you’re not always gonna have the perfect broadside shot. And if you wait for the perfect broadside shot and you give up other great shots, maybe just as good, honestly, then, you know, you ought to rethink things because sometimes it’s about, if you can picture your arrow going in and getting into the vitals, that’s the goal. And I had that. I had the pretty boy buck as a two 20 buck.

And you know, we, I had S stocked in on him. I think it was like five or six times. And the wind had swirl or change or something always happened. Well, this particular time, this deer, I was in a burn. And this particular deer is as if you remember, you know, how burns have like carbon and you remember how carbon was a big deal for scent, you know, kind of deodorizing your clothes or whatever. Anyway, I don’t know if that had something to do with it, but I had a dough, came out, he got up to feed a dough, comes out and she comes over and she freaking sniffs my arm. Okay, crazy. Right. Chris was watching it, filming it, whatever, from a distance. And she comes up and sniffs my arm. I’m like, it’s over, it’s over. She’s gonna blow it. It’s over. I mean, I’m not wearing any cover sin or anything like that.

I never do. It’s just always winning your face kind of thing. And she doesn’t, she doesn’t spook or nothing. She just keeps walking and feeding nothing. Right. So then he comes in, he comes out and he’s feeding and, and he’s feeding toward me. And when he goes behind a dead tree or at least his eyes do I draw and he comes out and he’s feeding and he’s facing me 23 yards. Okay. And he’s feeding and he just keeps feeding and facing me. And I’m at full drawn. It goes back to your two minute thing. I’m sitting there holding it, holding it, holding it. And I’m like, okay, I’m starting to shake. And like, and I can, I can hit a quarter at 23 yards at this point in my life. Right. Yeah. And I’m like, okay, where would you take if I’m that deer? And I had hands, where would I take my pulses?

Like that carotid artery, you got the, you know, the indention in the neck. I aim for that. And I’m like, if I hit that, he is freaking dead. But if I miss it, where’s that arrow gonna go. And a lot of times you could aim a little bit high and end up in their backstrap or, you know, backbone or whatever. And so I brought it down, still stain in that crease, but brought it down into where it was gonna go into his body and gonna go right through the vitals. Like, how can I go wrong? You know, like I’m gonna touch it off. And I touched it off and it hammered that artery and went through the length of his body and came out right in front of his hi quarter in the gut section. Yeah. So it went, the, it went, hit the artery and went through the length of his body, through all the vitals and came out in that little soft skin right there, right there. And

He didn’t go far. Oh,

It was like, I don’t know. I want, I wanna say 50 or 60 yards, but he shouldn’t have gone that far. And it was like, you just, you know, blew up gallons of blood everywhere. Like it was everywhere. So bloody. And anyway, it just reminded me, you know, of, of making it happen, like having the mindset, like I’m killing this deer or I’m killing this elk and, and the aggression, you know, a lot of guys are scared. They get within a hundred yards, but they kind of lock up. If you’re in thick trees with an elk or whatever, elk make lots of noise, it’s okay to make a rut to make a rush on ’em. It’s okay. When you’re in tight, if you can to make that happen. And then when you’re in there close, how am I gonna make, how am I gonna put this arrow in his vitals? I’m gonna put this arrow in his vitals. I’m gonna make it happen. And, and if it’s just the most picture, perfect. Everything’s perfect. Never, you know, whatever that doesn’t happen very often. And so anyway, I know you were talking about it as well.

Yeah. I was. Well, you talk about that within a hundred yards. Sometimes you just have to go for it. If it fails, it fails. Yeah. You’re giving yourself a chance. Yeah. But if you stand there and let it, let the animal decide a lot of the times, most of the time, it’s not gonna happen.


But shop placement. I always try to think like, if you know, laser beam, boom, straight through where it’s gonna go, like shoot through, you know what I mean? Yep. And I killed a buck he’s he was like, he was drinking water and he was steep angle. So I had to think like, okay, I can’t, you know, just same thing, boom. Hit him high shoulder. And it came out right down there. Same thing with you. He went 50 yards


Shot another one that was, he was quartering away so far that I was just off where I set my pin was just off his high quarter and just Lu just smoked him. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it pin downs, heart. The only thing sticking out was the knock. He went like 110 yards. Wow. No blood. It was all internal. Cuz there was no exit. But yeah, if I would, if I’d have aimed that deer behind the shoulder,

Right. It

Wouldn’t have

Happened. But yeah,

Just little things you have to think of just like shoot through like where is that arrow gonna go? If it goes clear

Through straight line. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cause you were to aim at the lungs. I mean you’d have been in front of everything. Right. Or you’d a cop, maybe part of a lung. Yeah. Instead you gotta aim back to make sure. And you just got a picture where that’s

Going. I’ve had clients do that where they, they shot. And I thought what? I said, where were you aiming? He said right behind the shoulder. And it’s like, that’s not always the right answer.

Right. Yeah. You know,

It’s just not well, and I’ve seen people a lot of times and it’ll be whether they, they hit hit ’em or they’ll eventually kill ’em or whatever. But a lot of guys, when they hide, hold behind the shoulder, I don’t know. I don’t know what it is, but they’re not just, just behind the shoulder. You know, they’re a foot behind the shoulder, mid body, you see a lot of that and it’s barely, if you’re back far enough, it’s just barely hitting the back of the lungs. I feel like when a lot of guys shoot behind the shoulder, they’re shooting the, the spine or kind of in that pocket, just below the spine, I’ve seen a lot of stuff get away, getting shot up high like that. And back as well, stuff that gets shot back and it takes a day or two to die because they’re just behind the shoulder.

And I think especially for a right hand shooter one way or another, you may even pull a little, you may pull that way. If the deer stand to the left, you may pull it farther than you think you are. And I always, you know, when I’m with my kids, especially with rifles and stuff, I don’t just go straight up the leg. You know, I always just trying to tell ’em just go straight up the leg. And as soon as you start to hit the body, that’s where you need to be. Because I feel like they’re probably gonna go up a little higher and probably go back a little farther than what I’m telling them. But I don’t know. It’s always just something I always really try and, and try and tell them and something I’ve always focused on is don’t think about where my shot’s gonna be as far as just like, okay, I gotta put it behind the shoulder. Like, okay, that’s the spot. Like, think about that spot where it’s gonna go and focus on just that spot alone after you’ve made a determine, is it three? Is it quartering away quarter and two me straight on whatever. But once you decide where that arrow, that bullet, whatever needs to go, you just really need to focus on that spot and know else. Yeah. Make sure you’re on that spot.

I think another thing we, you know, need to do is, is to make sure you have ranged, you, you range find where you are aiming for as best you can. And at times we talked about this at times, you’re, you know, at times you’re end up ranging the tree or a Bush or whatever, and he’s just not quite right there or whatever. And we just misjudge it. Yeah. And it can cause you some grief. So yeah. So one story, an admission when they’re tight quartering, when they’re a tight quarter, no matter how good you are, it, it, it sometimes doesn’t go off. Perfect. Right. You know, I had a tight quartering, 50 yarder and, and I hit exactly where I was aiming. I, I hit exactly. And the, in the broad head, it was such so tight right behind the, it was right, right behind the shoulder. But from my perception, the area there buried in him and, and off he went and everything was great. And I was like, this, this bull’s done. And, and, and, and he was, it was a good shot. But what it did was is it went up the ribs, it was a tight, tight enough. It went, it kind of went up the ribs and into the armpit. Oh

Yeah. Okay. And so, but there’s some, there’s some major vein feeding the front leg and it severed that it went up in the armpit and then when they’re running, it just, it severed all that. And so we tracked this bull and it was like, you, you pricked a, a gallon jug of milk and, and put it under your arm and start

Walking’s consistent,

Consistent and heavy for a mile and a half. Like I did not know an elk had this much blood in it, you know, you know, I mean, just like, how is he still going? Yeah. Like how is he still going? And it was like, how is the heck of a great shot bleeding? Everything is amazing. We didn’t push him. We waited a half hour or whatever. 45 minutes probably should have waited an hour, but I can’t. And I’m like, what is going on? And it was like that jug emptied and they pricked another jug and another jug. And we just kept on tracking this bull. Chris was there and anyway, all on film. And we walked up on him, stone dead, you know? Wow. And it was like a mile and a half. Well, when we dissected him and we’re, we’re quartering him and everything, the arrow never penetrated the rib cage, never penetrated the rib cage. Wow. And so sometimes those tight ones, they can skip up the ribs, even though it didn’t look like it. Did, you know, it just a little bit went right up in there and buried in there, buried in there, but never actually, you know, went into, well,

It’s hard to tell how they’re what those angles are. Yeah. A lot of the times I think they were perfectly broadside and I get up to ’em and the exit holds clear back here or coming out their chest.

Yeah. Or

May I thought he was perfectly broadside

And it could have been the way it, it, you know, it maybe hit a rib and it glanced them and it changed the angle or whatever. There’s a few things. And so you want things as in your favor, as best as possible, especially on a big animal, but anyway, it, it kind of fun kind of an experience you’ll never forget and got a few of those interesting moments, but

It seems like I remember the ones that I really messed up on the most sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, I’ll I’ll what were you gonna tell

Story? I was gonna say that range in the Bush. I did doesn’t work so good. Sometimes.

When did

You do that? A lot of sleep last year.


Would’ve been my biggest bowl and I, I had ranged the Bush and it was at 60 yards and there’s one tight opening and all of a sudden the bull Bules, it’s the last five minutes it’s over basically like this is, it comes out, puts his front leg out, like kill me. And I just, everything was fine. Touched it off and right under him.


You know, and yeah. He was at like 70.

We don’t like to. Yeah.

He was deeper in there. And that, that 10, 12 yard difference.

That was the last evening. That was it, right? Yeah. The end of it. Yeah. Well, and then there’s one other story rifle. We gotta throw a rifle story in there. So I’m in Colorado unit 68 and I’m gonna, I’m hunting on my own videoing on my own, videoing myself set up the camera. So it’s just one of those time in your life. I’ve just, I’m young. I’m super aggressive. And I, I, you know what I mean? Nothing phases. You, you just you’re you’re invincible. Right? So I’m crushing the mountain side. I mean, I’m, I’m hiking down this Ridge. I find this buck, he’s like a mid nineties buck. I’m like, I’m shooting this deer and I set up the camera, I talk into it, Hey, I’m gonna smash this buck. Like, you know, I should have just got down and shot him.

I think I’ve seen this video.

Yeah. And so anyway, I get in there and I sh I shoot him and, and I mean, it’s perfect. And he just hums up and then turns around. I’m like, what turns around, hammer him again and down. He goes, well, I walk over there. So I’m shooting a, a custom rifle, but he was, but it was set up for burgers. You know how a lot of these guys really like burgers and burgers, there’s a lot of people that like, ’em, I, I don’t really like ’em, I like a solid core that a bonded bullet. I like a lead core bonded bullet personally. But, but even the solid coppers are good. The burger it’s just to me, it’s designed to blow up, right? Well, this one’s doing, this is a 180 class. I think it’s a 1 78 or something. And it’s going probably fast, 37 feet, 3,700 feet, a second.

It’s freaking smoking. Okay. It was like that 300 Tejas or whatever round. Remember the entry, my fist could fit in the entry hole and it hit nothing. It did not go in sideways. It didn’t hit a little branch. The, the entry was my fist going through there. And so anyway, I called him up and I’m like, I don’t get these burgers. Like the entry was like, and he goes, that’s what they’re supposed to do, sir. He’s like, it’s like a little Adam, a little, or a little grenade, little hand grenade going off in their chest and with crap going everywhere. And I’m like, I don’t even know if there was a real exit. I think it literally blew up in the chest cavity. Okay. Which you would say, that’s amazing. Like it obliterated every organ that deer had, but I want, what if I would’ve, what if I, what if it was quartering away or something and, and the wind made the bullet, you know, hit him in the hip or something a bonded bullet would shove up through,

Or what if you’re shooting through some Sage brush or right. ALS or something.

Right. So I just haven’t been a burger fan. Yeah. But, but it, part of it’s probably the speed and a lot of guys will say, I’ve only shot burgers and everything’s died. That they’ve touched. A lot of guys would say that. So yeah.

Back in my prior days, I had that argument many, many times.

And so now what

Bullets? My, I like, well, burgers, if they’re slow enough, they’re good. They’ll mushroom back. And they’ll, they’ll, they’ll, they’re fine, but they’re very accurate. But how do you beat it? Nower

Accu bar. I, I can’t,

I love the, I shoot a barns, a full copper in one of my rifles and it it’s fine. It performs

The horny. El LDX is a bonded bullet. It’s awesome too. You know what I mean? Doesn’t hold like an acupunc Aons hold.

Yeah. They don’t, they don’t hold they’re similar to a burger in my opinion.

Well, I, my, yeah,

But they, a lot of the calibers that shoot ’em real well, shoot. ’em slow

Enough. Yeah. Like my 30 nozzle. Yeah. It’s just, it’s toned down. It’s not a 305.

Those one 40 threes. They’re all going under 3000 and they that’s

Good. Yeah. Yeah. My 30 nozzle’s kind of a tone, a really toned down 300 ultra mag where the 300 ultras, you know, it’s spitting, ’em out there if you juice it up a little bit. So anyway, just a little something, something just in interesting stuff that you learn as, as you go along and you kind of get what you like and you learn what you like and whatnot. So, all right. Fells. We got anything else it’s freaking hot in this office. Yep.

Even turned the fan on today. Gosh.

And it feels like it feels hot, right? Yeah. Yep. Glad I’m not the only one. All right, PHAs. Okay. That’s about it, everybody. If you need any help, let us know if you need some products. Of course we sell. ’em give us a holler first, come first serve on a couple of these. What we’re calling demos, not really demos their, their

They’re brand new

Call, intent and

Purposes. The dusted one, you might find Josh’s thumbprint. That’s about

It. Josh has gotta have his thumbprint on about everything that comes through this office. My wife would argue that it’s my thumbprint, but no. So anyway, give us a hollerer. We can sure. Help you. If you drew an awesome tag, need a little bit of help. Of course. We’d love to try to help you in and wanna make the best, the most of the hunts that you’ve got ourselves as well. And well guys, should we go over and see if, why it’s still here?

Yeah, let’s go check on him

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