Jason and John on a late-night edition of the Epic Outdoors Podcast. They cover a 2022 Mule deer and elk update from around the West as well as updates on how 2023 is looking. They call Epic Outdoors member, Bill Heinselman, who tells the story of the hunt for “Big Foot,” a giant 270-class Mule deer Bill harvested in Arizona. Bill shares lessons learned as well as tips for hunting giant Mule deer. Jason and Bill also discuss hunting Tule elk and Bill’s recent #3 all-time B&C bull. They discuss areas in California that could produce big Mule deer, elk and Bighorn sheep. Bill tells about neighborhood Mountain lions and mysterious cases of missing pets. Jason and John check in with Epic Crew members Devin and Josh who are elk hunting and get the latest update from Wyatt who just finished a successful Mule deer hunt. Wyatt gives a rundown of his feel for the current Mule deer and elk hunts in Utah this fall.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

Anything to do with Western mid games.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, John Peterson. It’s late. John. It’s freaking way late. It’s eight, 15. I’m usually in bed by now. How about you? Yeah, we’re pulling a late nighter here, late nighter third monster in which you know, we haven’t talked about monster, but it’s because they don’t pay us and they just take away your health. Right. That’s right. They’re not good for you, but how can anything that makes you feel so good? Be so bad for you, John? I’m sure there’s a lot of things that fill fall into that category about everything in life. So kids don’t drink monster, but when you’re 50, I mean every day over 40 is a blessing, John that’s right. And it’s a gift. You never know when you’re gonna go. You might as well enjoy it. All right. Well, it is late. But having said that we don’t get in the office very often Bronson he’s he’s in Alaska. He’s sheep hunting. He’s cranking. I know I’ve gotten into each message, hiking. His guts out looks like it’s gonna go the full length. You know, some of them come easy and some don’t, it sounds like this one’s a grinder. Short messages usually don’t mean good things.

He had a phenomenal sheep hunt in Canada. This one will turn out well, E everything he does ends up. Good. He’s he’s a good hunter. So anyway, we’re expecting good things. We’ve got Devin and Josh, we might try them here in a bit. It’s just after dark down there in Arizona, they’re cranking out elk down there having a blast, been a great hunt. You know, the ruts, just getting cranking. Some places it’s even a little bit slow, slower than people thought like New Mexico. I’ve been kind of checking around with my outfitting buddies a little bit, but anyway, I’m, I’m in the office for a sec. John you’re here cranking out the next magazine, the October, November hunt. Yeah. We’re getting close to going to print on that magazine. So we gotta, somebody’s gotta do a little bit of work and that’d be us. And, and of course we all take our turn.

I’ve been in the field a lot and headed back. So not a lot to report. Remember short messages don’t mean good things. So I’d, that’s true. Bragging all about it. If it was good. And it’s not really that good right now. I, I, I am thinking though, for next year, you hunt elk in September and deer in November, that I’m really, I might be going back to that. John. We’ve heard that before. It’s hard when you, yeah. And you have big deer on the brain. So anyway, there’s a lot of wet conditions around Southern Utah, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, of course, you know, who cares right about Colorado, but anyway, we’re expecting great body conditions. And potentially if there’s any spring at all, an incredible 20, 23, I can’t believe we’re saying it. 20, 23. Yeah. Crazy. Huh? Some scouting reports up there in Wyoming deer wise meal, deer wise. Incredible. There’s some big deer in the high country in Wyoming. So there’re gonna, there’s gonna be a few slammed. Hunts are getting cranking here shortly. And then on the winter range, of course there’s always a few that make it through and it’ll be jaw dropping. Pretty sure about it.

So you overall you’d predict a pretty good mule deer year across the west. Yeah.

Good mule deer year, that’s it’s looking like Utah. Pretty darn good. Considering a lot of the hunts have kind of come and went or at least are finishing up the archery, especially. And there was some big deer shot. There’s some big deer killed and there’s a few big deer live. And then, you know, same thing with Nevada. There’s been a few really solid bucks taken kind of average or just sub average in, in Nevada. But with these tag cuts and lots of moisture, we’ll take it anytime we can get it, but let’s just say summer fall heavy moisture means good, good body conditions for the winter. And then if you have any kind, you know, spring, as well as these tag cuts, you know, you’re just getting some age on Deer. There’s some deer that have never had seen a, you know, in their mature years, haven’t seen a good wet, normal, awesome year.

And so that’s when you have, you know, 40, 50 inch jumps. And that’s what we like, you know what I mean? So some incredible bulls in Nevada, big bulls in, in Arizona and really big bulls in Utah, exceptional year here in Utah, John, we have a good buddy of ours. I haven’t told you this yet, but anyway, he forwarded a pictures of a 412 type bull taken here in Utah. So just barely a couple days ago. Wow. So pretty, pretty awesome. And of course we expected it. This is one I didn’t necessarily expect, but it’s also kind of off the radar. I wasn’t thinking a lot about it. So pretty, pretty fun. You know, there’s of course sheep, there’s gonna be some great sheep taken and not a lot of those hunts have yet to come so fun. It’s a fun time of year here in the office, fun out in the field too. But, but when you get in your butt kicked, it’s kind of fun to live through other people. You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s by choice.

It is fun to be here in the office and you get updates from everybody. Yeah. You know, around the, wherever they are. And just what yesterday we got video from Devin and, and Josh. I mean, it looks like there’s bulls in their laps.

Yeah. Not to reveal too much. Cause it’s hard right during the season. And we have guys right here, John in our hometown that, that pry and then go tell and then competing friends here in the industry. Those are maybe not quote unquote friends. So friends keep secrets. You gotta keep those kind of friends really close closer than we do. But anyway, so there you have it kind of gotta be respectful of people when they’re in the field and, and can’t can’t reveal too much, but guys are having good hunts. Well, I wanna, John, what do you think about maybe giving, oh bill Hensel on a call. He’s killed some incredible animals. He killed Bigfoot, freaking 200 and seventies type inch deer, amazing deer in Arizona, you know, he’s killed other amazing bulls. He killed a giant Tuley in California. I just, I just want to kind of get the scoop from him.

You know, what does that entail? I mean, teach us something, it’s something I haven’t done. And he’s kind of fun to visit with, you know what I like about guys? Like, like bill is no is never an answer. If he wants to do it, he’ll do it. He’ll figure out a way he he’s a success story in and of itself. Yeah. His business and you know, just, it just tells you a lot about somebody and that comes off in the field as well. He’s successful in business. He’s successful in the field. He knows how to get the job done. He hires the right guys and he does it based on knowledge too. He just doesn’t just blindly go do things. He does it with good knowledge. Let’s give him a hollerer. See if he’s up and at him,

How’s it going? Good.

How are you doing?

Doing good. Thinking about hunting.

How are you? I was wondering, you know, when when’s your bedtime, I was just wondering about,

Oh, oh, I’m I’m up late.

Okay. Well this is usually my I’m usually in bed by now. Well, I’m actually no, I’m hiking out to the bike usually right now. And there’s,

There’s still light out. Oh yeah. It’s it’s, it’s probably late where you guys are, right. I’m in

California. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s not light out here, but

I got 25 minutes of light still where I’m

At. You could be surfing dur.


Well, I don’t know. I just wondered.

I’ve tried to it’s it’s hard. I, I, I, I went to Hawaii and then I, and then I booked some access deer hunt to go chase some deer around with my bow.

Oh yeah. Nice. Yeah.

Isn’t isn’t bad. Yeah. I’m gonna take my employees out there. This, this December for an employee hunt.

Yeah. Well,

Key employees should be fun.

Yeah, it’ll be awesome. It’ll be awesome. Some of those employees that are listening to this podcast that aren’t going are gonna realize they’re not key employees though, you know?

Yeah. That’s, that’s

How you, that’s a problem.

How to figure out, you need to work harder.

Listen to the podcast. All right. Yep. Well, bill, before we called you, I just, you know, I kind of bragged on you a little bit that, you know, you’re quite a success story in your business and, and whatnot, and that comes off in the field as well. You’ve been very successful in business. You’re very successful in the field. You don’t take no for an answer. You you’re, you’re just very energetic and very aggressive. I don’t know how much of your personal story you wanna share as far as, you know, your good fortune there in California and whatnot, and then just, and your mentality and your attitude and how that comes off in the field. And you’ve been extremely successful on getting the right tags, having the right information, hiring the right guys. And then, and it just feels like you’ve got an upbeat perspective on life and, and you’re, and you’re hunting and whatnot. And I just kind of maybe get your take on some of that.

Yeah. Well, thank you. I, I, yeah, with life and everything, I do, I try to be the best at whatever I do, but what, what you see and know about me for hunting and being successful and hunting, you know, for every nice buck or bull I’ve killed, there’s five or 10 trips and, and a bunch of tags that I’ve eaten tag soup on and, and hundreds and hundreds of miles of hiking and, and lots of failures out there too, to, to that go along with the, the one successful hunt or the two successful hunts. And, and, you know, I, I am, I’m blessed. I have a successful business and a great family that support me in what I do. And, you know, I’m fortunate to be able to target tags where there are some really great animals and great genetics. And I think genetics is huge part in killing a big animal. You know, you, you can hunt your whole life in some of these units and never see a 400 inch bull or a two 20 buck or two 50 buck, you know, it’s just they’re,

They don’t make ’em. They just don’t

Make them. They just don’t make ’em. Yeah. Yeah. The genetic trying to air, they just don’t grow. Yeah. And so I, you know, as I, I’ve only been hunting since 2010, I started hunting.


And, and yeah, once I got into hunting, I was like, man, I, I really love this. And it’s something I’m very passionate about and I really want to do it, but I wanna be the best at it. I want to, I wanna, I want to go out, out there and chase after big bucks and big bulls and have fun doing it. I love being out there, you know, nothing better than being out in the mountains during the rut. And my wife’s getting mad at me every year because my birthday’s on September 23rd and I I’m, I haven’t been home for a single birthday in the last 10 years. Did

You remind her? It’s not your birthday? It’s mine. It’s my birthday. And I’m okay not to celebrate it.

Right. Yeah. I’m like, where else would I, she always says, what do you want to, what do you want for your birthday to hear elk bugles?

That’s it

Have habitable screaming in my face, preferably like a four 20 bowl would be good. Yeah. You know, so yeah. So I I’m, I’m blessed. I target, I target key tags. I try to, at least, and yeah, I, I try really hard to, to find people that can help me on some of these hunts and, and scout because you can’t, you know, running a, running a company and having a family and that you cannot do all the scouting necessary, needed to be successful, to kill a, kill a giant animal.

Right, right. Order

To go after them. And, and you, you know, better than anybody. I mean, you spend so much time out every year scouting and glassing and running cameras where you can run cameras now. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s a lot of work and, and takes a lot of time and energy and, and money sometimes, you know, to, to, to do it. And, and I get, not everybody can do it and that, but there’s a lot of stuff people can do themself to make themself more successful and, and applying every year using your guys’ tag service, maybe, I mean, that’s yeah. That, you know, you know, putting in for the right units and zones, most people don’t know where to even put in for, right. What is a trophy unit? And, you know, they talk to their buddy and they’re their, their dad or grandfather says, you know, you need to hunt the Ruby mountains. There’s these giant bucks over in the Ruby’s. And, and, you know, and I’ve got a, a big group of friends that every year put in for the Ruby’s and they hunt there and, you know, one of, one or two of ’em kill 140 inch deer year there. And


And then they hear me going down to Southern Nevada, or 2 31, 2 42, these, these premium units hunting. And, you know, they’re asking why and what are we doing down there? And, you know, they’re killing giant bucks. There’s right. You know, literally the biggest deer in the state are there the biggest, some of the biggest deer in the Western United States are down in those units

Yeah. On the right years, for sure. Yeah.

The right years. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been tough lately, but looks like it’s picking up and, you know, I’m excited to, to get down to some of these units and hunt and head to Arizona tomorrow to, to hunt Navajo for a week maybe, and then off to San Carlos for a week and should be fun.

Yeah. That’ll be awesome. That’ll be incredible. Well, yeah. Speaking of the Navajo and you killed Bigfoot, one of the biggest deer killed in recent history. I, I just can’t get over the tenacity. You had there’s some, some guys that’ll, you know, that, that buy tags or book a hunt or whatever, and they go on a hunt and then they go home and don’t think much about it. And you were obsessed with this deer. It took you a couple years. You know what I mean, to get this deer killed.

Yeah. This, this deer lived, we found this deer in 2019, the day before my hunt opened, got him on trail camera. And he was just a huge buck. And, you know, we thought he was like a 2, 2 30, 2 40 type buck. And so I spent the whole 2019 season hunting him. I spent weeks and weeks, you know, almost months out there hunting him and just diligent up on him, sitting before, before daylight and, and until dark every day for weeks and weeks and weeks on in, and, and just could never connect on with this buck. He’s a smart buck. And he is huge because he’s smart. But he, he lives in an area where there’s, there’s thick are some giant deer. Yeah. Thick. He, yeah, it’s really flat where he lived and really thick. There’s no vantage points to glass from. So it made it extremely tough to hunt him.

The only thing I really had was water to sit water and I, and I sat water for weeks at a time and he would come in and, but he just, you know, he’d be there an hour or two hours after dark every time and, and never hit water, why he did learn about him and other bucks is first freeze of the year. And this is a good tip because if you’re out hunting and you’re after a buck and you know, it’s gonna freeze, and it’s the first freeze of the year. You may, you, you may be able to get your buck if you’re there on that first freeze of the year. Because I, I, I wasn’t there, but my cameras were, and he, two days in a row, he hit it 9:00 AM him and him and him. And like 15 other bucks came in both, both days

Into water, right. Into water.

Yeah. Into water in November. They came in on the, it was first freeze of the year where it was really, really cold and, and the water froze. And they, they were on the water two days in a row at 9:00 AM,

Probably because it melded off by then and they could drink.

I think so, but, but it, it was really thin ice. You could see him kind of, kind of breaking their ho breaking the ice with their hoof, some of the bucks. Yeah. And, and, and the big guy came in last, but he was man, boy, he was impressive on camera. We had some great video of him coming in with the other bucks. And you know, and these bucks are all hard, hard horned then. And it’s it’s November, but they were, it’s like 15 of ’em came in at a time. There was a bunch of, bunch of bucks came in that those days. So the next year, same thing if first freeze of the year, next year, I mean, grant and I had already killed Bigfoot, but we still have cameras out. But first freeze of the year, they were, the bucks were hitting the water during the day again. So totally it’s, it’s one of those things where if you don’t notice that you, you can’t take advantage of it. So that’s a, that’s definitely something that is a, is a good tip for somebody chasing a buck towards, towards that, that time of year when it’s, it’s, you’re getting that, that freeze. And you’re trying to connect on a buck on water.

Yeah. I can’t, that may payoff. I can’t remember, but which year it was, but I was getting daily updates from you and I’m hunting a big deer. You’re hunting a big deer.


You killed the big deer. I didn’t, I, I didn’t kill a big deer. I ate another tag. Yeah. But, but it kind of keeps you going, it just, you, you were, I mean, you were running scenarios by me and I don’t have all the answers, but maybe just a perspective, you know,

Trying. Yeah. So yeah. The 2019 season, I hunted him with no success. I was lucky enough to buy that auction tag again for that area. And 2020 season was on him really hard. It was a completely different year. Water, water was scarce, everything dried up. We ended up finding him like eight miles away at another water hole. He, for some reason he didn’t like to drink outta metal tanks. And we almost connected with him one day. But yeah, well, I was, I was having a tough time and I would call you and, and run through scenarios on ways we could, you know, I could possibly track ’em out, rake the ground. And then, and then, so that all the tracks are clean and then follow his tracks or, or, you know, different methods. And none of ’em seemed to work. And it was just very tough and frustrating. And, you know, and I’m, I’m seven, eight weeks into hunting him and, and

Frustrating is frustrating.

It’s, it’s terribly frustrating. Yeah. And, and on top of that, at that point in my life, I had never seen a 200 inch buck in the field. And I, I remember literally sitting up on this wind meal that was nearby just so I could have some elevation to, to glass a little bit. And then, and also watch that water hole. Yeah. I literal, I literally set a prayer to God to help me, help me with this giant buck, help me be successful. And I open my eyes and no shit. I see a buck coming into water with a giant frame, and it’s a, like a 210 inch buck, just a giant frame, typical with three, three kickers coming out one side and just a huge buck in. And I was thinking to myself, I’m like, God answered my prayers. And he’s giving me this giant beautiful fear.

And I’m just too stubborn to take advantage of it because I have my heart set on this big foot, this amazing buck Bigfoot, I, I, you know, two years into it was like it’s Bigfoot or nothing, you know? And, and, and that’s the key too. If, if you’re really wanna kill a giant buck or a giant bull, you’ve gotta pass, pass everything else. Yeah. You have to pass the three 90 bulls. If you’re gonna kill a 400. Yeah. You, you just have to, and, and that can be tough, but so eventually he, the buck ends up getting bumped by another hunter and he comes this, a hunter comes in there with this dog and he’s the other trophy tag hunter and the, the buck disappears. So we, we lose sight of him for two weeks. I go off and hunt hunt another. I go hunt hunt in San Carlos after bull.

And by the time we pick him up, my guy texts me some pictures of him on camera during the day he, every three or four days, he was on camera at a brand new water hole. That’s real tucked in and tight. The old water hole he used to be at the year before, but on the metal tank, the water, the, the, the dirt tank had dried up and he left because he, he just never drank out of the metal tanks, but getting pushed and the pressure, he went back to his old, his old stomping ground. He’s drink, he’s hitting the water out of that metal tank. It’s really tight with Cedars all around it. And he’s hitting water three times in a row during the day. Geez. And, and so I just dropped everything I was doing and went, went over there and built a blind that, that, that day and sat it the next morning.

I let it sit for a day. I sat it the next morning, which was the third day of him, him not hitting water. And he, he didn’t come in the next morning, but that night he like 20 minutes light left. Sure shit. He, he fricking jumped out those Cedars and jumped over Bob wire fence into my view. And it just happened so fast. You know, I just, I seen him for a second and I kid you not, I grabbed my rifle and put it up. The second I saw him jump into view, put it up. And he already had me pegged in the blind. Wow. That quick. And if I, I think of, yeah, wow. It was, it was amazing. He was looking right, right through you through my scope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was just, I pulled the trigger on him and, and I, you know, I, I probably seen him alive for five seconds and, and that was it.

You know, I, I, and I didn’t know where he went. I was just shaking. Like the amount of adrenaline that hit me was crazy. I’ve never had that feeling in my life. You know, I don’t, I don’t get nervous shooting at a, at a big bull or, you know, 400 inch bull. It just then my nerves don’t get there, but I’ve never had an experience like that where I’ve spent so much time and energy after one animal for, for multiple years and to finally be successful. And, you know, and, and to text you, Hey, I got him was


It was surreal. It was amazing an awesome experience in my life. But I, don’t not something I wanna do again. Honestly, it was, it was brutal. And it’s, it’s tough on family too. And, and wife, kids, like when you’re gone and you have to explain to your wife why you’re gonna be gone for weeks and weeks at a time is, is tough.

Yeah. Yeah. So, but it’s also like, I don’t know. You’re, I’m like you, like, I don’t get nervous at the shot anymore. I used to, when I was a kid and then I finally got mad at myself, cuz I was like, I work all this time to have this one opportunity. And then when the opportunity presents itself, I fall apart. And so I had to, I force myself to get over buck fever, but then I, I start wheezing and coughing and choking. And I mean, when it’s over and the, and the, and the deer’s laying there and it’s a world class deer, you just, I mean, I, I lose it. You know what I mean?

I, yeah, yeah.

It takes me a minute. I takes me a while. You know, it’s,

It’s, it’s an amazing feeling, right? It’s a feeling like no nothing else. Yeah. And in life, I mean, you, you, you, the amount of effort and energy that you put into hunting, a big buck is, is just crazy. You know, and people, people won’t do that. People will not sit out and, and sweat their asses off or freeze. I mean, I can’t tell you how many days it was 15 degrees out. And I literally sat and froze from dark to dark.


And didn’t, and did not move an inch. Yeah. You know, I stayed there all day and then I was like, that’s, it was the worst feeling ever. And then the next day I do it again. The next day I do it again. It just doesn’t matter. It’s like, I’m gonna be there. Yeah. And I’m gonna kill this buck. And, and it’s just something you have to do. I mean, I mean, people get, you know, I wouldn’t say get lucky people kill bucks though, you know, just driving down the road and they kill giants or they oh yeah. You know, they, they go out and the conditions are nice and the bucks are all bachelor up and they’re they’re pattern and they’re in a nice, easy area to hunt. And, and yeah, I just haven’t had that hunt yet. I’m still waiting for that hunt when it’s easy and mine, I don’t know why mine are always difficult.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you’re hunting crappy country. Yeah. New reservation is not easy down there. It’s not.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it can be tough for sure. So,

But then you do anything you can to put another animal like that on the ground and it, and it’s something, you know, it’s just something unexplainable when you, I, you just want that shock and all, I just love, I live for that shock and all, and it’s, I don’t know if it’ll ever happen again. It feels like it’s been a, it’s been a minute, you know what I mean? And you just, but you keep grinding day after day after day.

It’s not easy to do. Yeah. And then, and then I, I kill a giant, you know, 276 inch buck, and then he is, all I get is, oh, you’re never gonna see a deer like that again, alive in your life. You’ll never see it. But in, in my head, I’m like, what do I need to do to yeah. To get my next one. Yeah. You know? Cause I that’s, that’s my goal is like, I want to go out and, and have that experience again, where I touch an amazing animal or yeah. You know, be able to walk up and touch, touch that rack and look at it and look at, you know, how amazingly beautiful that animal is and, and, and you know, what you went through and what your friends went through with you cuz you, you have a, you know, a team of guys too. It’s not just you, it’s other people. Yeah. Other friends, family that sacrificed to


To that are all a part of that hunt and, and, and it’s yeah. You know, and that’s something else to consider. You know, I had some great guys with me when I hunted Bigfoot and, and you know, it’s not a, it’s not a one man show and it takes, it takes a lot of effort and energy from everybody to make something happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve been grinding it out with a couple of my buddies here recently and I don’t know, I’m not sure they’re still my buddies. Yeah. It’s hard on people and I don’t, you don’t wanna disappoint ’em but I mean, it was, you know, anyway, sometimes you don’t see a buck for a week, you know? And so

Yeah, it’s tough, but yeah. It’s, you know what then, if it all they’re

Dedicated together. Yeah,

Yeah. That’s what you have to be. I mean, it’s, it’s amazing how it can, a giant buck can just step out after not seeing a buck for four days, you can just see a monster, all, you know, just

Like that. So, so Bigfoot, we, you, you know, when you were sending photos and whatnot, like every, you know, we, everybody had their opinions on what he would score and, and the beam lengths and, and the, and the crazy triple splits on the beams and just, just all kinds. It’s just so crazy. But what was it like, you know, walking up to him, I mean, was he as big as you thought, was he bigger?

So the, the crazy thing was I walk up to the deer and I, my initial reaction was, oh my gosh, he’s smaller than I thought.


Because he’s laying, he’s laying on the ground and he’s, he’s got, so one thing, so much mass that it, it kind of hit

His, hit the point length. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. I mean, he has tremendous point length everywhere, but he had a mass and, and it kind of kind of hit it. Yeah. So I I’m like, whoa, he’s kind of smaller than I, than I thought. I mean, I thought he was a two 50 buck and I think you thought, what’d you say like two forties?

Yeah. Oh, like that, or who knows? I’d hate to say I was that flat off, but maybe,


I thought, I mean, you just don’t know he has that. He has that, it’s hard to say anything that’s a 1,060, ER, you know, but he, yeah, he, he had so much going on and he has a giant frame, four point frame on top of, of the try

200, 210 inch frame with, with a 10 inch and 14 inch G2.

Right. Right.

Which is crazy.

But I guards and beams and everything just sick. So

Yeah. It’s just a beautiful, beautiful buck. And noth I, I, there’s something about giant eye guards on a buck that just get me, like I, yeah. I’m I love ’em. I can’t, I can’t tell you how many, how many hundred 95 to 205 inch bucks that I’ve passed. Cuz they don’t have eye guards.


And I don’t know what’s wrong with me, why I do that, but it’s just like, I like I guards and I want, I want eye guards on a buck and a Honda, a buck like that, but

Slick, shank. Yeah. Old slick shank he’s you know, I’ve let a fair number of them live. So what I too, you killed a giant Tuly I just kind of wanted to get your take on. There’s not a lot of people have done that hunt. You know, they don’t give hardly any draw tags there in California. It’s kind of a special deal. I’ve never done it. I just kind of wanted to visit with you about that. Obviously you were, you got to scout that a lot. It’s not an hour from your place or whatever. And yeah. Very capable of going out and knowing the bulls that are there, but it’s also a unique hunt and a totally different hunt than normal elk hunting. And so maybe just tell us how that went down and what people can expect if they’re looking to kill one.

Okay. Well it it’s grizzly island tag, which is, I think the it’s the hardest tag to draw in California. I bought the auction tag. I bought it in 20, 20, 20 also. And so this, this was my second year having it. The first year I, I had a couple target bulls and I ended up killing the, at the time, the number four Pope and young bull in the world with my bow and which was a, which was he, he grows three 19 and netted three 11. And, and so I, I, the, the area out there, I’ll kind of describe that area. The grizzly islands, 6,000 acres, it’s entirely flat lot during the winter. They flood, they flood these fields. There’s these little checks, three, three to four foot tall checks out there. They flood the fields and it’s, it’s all marsh Tooles and stuff. They use it for duck hunting and that, and people can go out there and hunt the, a lot of the property isn’t flooded. Plus there’s a lot of private property around there where the elk could go. Right. So, and that’s something that people don’t know that, oh, is it high fence? What is it? No, it’s completely free range, which is, is O obviously great. But it also screws you cuz your tag is only good for that 6,000 acre piece of land that the state owns.


Okay. And, and at, at any given time, I would say half the elk that are in that herd, which is about 180 cows and, and about 80 bulls.


Diff different size bulls. So, so when you’re looking at hunting there, there’s about 80 bulls out there and a hundred, 180 cows. So 260 animals, the biologist said that there’s about five to 10 bulls every year that get killed during the rut, from being gored. So they, so they lose five to 10, five to 10 bulls from that every year they also kill six spikes a year, six cows a year. Wow. And, and six bull tags a year.


So the, the first rifle tag starts tomorrow and it’ll go for four days, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.


And then the next, the next rifle tag will start the following Thursday and go Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And it’s three, three rifle tags. Each, each group, the hunters, there’s some main roads that the hunters can go on, but they have to park their vehicles on at these designated parking areas and then hike out in, into these areas and hunt.


The, the main, the main area, the center force in the area is called red house road. The majority of the riding activity happens right there. It’s really easy to get to. Typically there’s 20 to 30 bulls there and, and cows and, and crazy riding activity. It’s pretty, it’s pretty wild. It’s pretty intense. I, I go out there myself. I’m out there from April may on by, by June 10th, bulls bulls this year were already hard horned. There was already four or five bulls, hard horn. June 10th. Yeah. It’s crazy. And, and by, by mid-July almost, everything’s hard horned out there and they’re already starting to rut in, in July.


Crazy. Yeah. It’s kind of, it’s kind of, it is crazy. It’s really crazy. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s flat. It’s, it’s got some, some grass that’s, you know, most of the grass out there is 18 inches tall or 12 inches tall. And then it’s got this other type of grass that gets in these little patches that are maybe 30 inches tall. And then you, then you get patches of tallies that can be shoot eight to 10 feet tall. And you know, these bulls just go into there and, and actually entire Hertz of the elk, they’ll go in there and bed down during the middle of the day when it’s hot. And, and you won’t, you won’t see a, a single elk, you know, you’ll, you, you drive out there even right now in the, at 11 o’clock in the afternoon, you won’t see a single elk around. And then, you know, an and hour before dark or hour and a half before dark, they’ll just start trickling out of the grass and, and places you look in glass all day long, you don’t see anything and, and you can see all the way around it. And then, you know, these, these elk just magically appear and then a half hour of light left. And man, it is a party. These guys are just screaming and bugling and Rutten and chasing cows and fighting. And


It’s, it’s, it’s fun. It’s a really good time. Rifle is a, it is a super easy hunt. I mean, it’s a, it’s a pick your bull and, and, you know, shoot him. It’s not gonna be a long shot typically. I mean, and unless you’re just not sneaky there, there’s almost always a 15 to 30 mile an hour wind out there

Cause basically an island. Right. I mean, it’s,

It’s, it’s an island, but it’s not an island. It’s there, there’s a slew. That’s a few feet deep. Yeah. On one side, maybe, maybe four, four feet deep on one side. And, and, and it, it wraps around the Western half of it. And then there’s another slew Montezuma slew, which is a, a, a little bit deeper, maybe eight to 10 feet deep in spots on the east and north side. So they call it island because it has these slews around it, but it’s just private property past that. And so, yeah, like for, for my hunt this year opening day, I was on my bull. Then he had moved off island and my, my target bull, I scouted for months and months, I had pictures of pictures, video of every bull on the island that I could find, which is probably every single one, honestly, cuz I, I lived there did account and I yeah, yeah. I li yeah. Yeah. I lived there. Yeah. So, so my, my bull stayed off island on private property for 22 days straight.

Wow. And nobody can hunt the private, like you can’t, is there a tag valid for the private, if a guy would let you hunt him?

No, there’s not. And the biologist said he was, they were fish and game was thinking about possibly letting, letting hunters hunt that. Yeah. So, you know, for me, I’m I wanted to, my goal was to get the world record with my bow. Yeah. And to, to have an animal 20, 20 season, I killed the biggest bull out there and it was 3, 3 19. Right. And, and I did it with my bow this year. I go out there and we’re scouting, scouting scouting, and all of a sudden we see this giant Pennsylvania, this bull he’s it’s

Bull named nickname. You Pennsylvania.

Yeah. Cuz he, he, he looked like the, these crazy growing Rockies that they have in Pennsylvania,

Like Dwayne Kramer’s bull or whatever,

Like yeah. Like Kramer’s 4 56. Yeah. It’s just, just magical giant, you know, short beamed, lots of points, lots of extras and you know, kickers coming off the force and fifths and, and just, you know, they, they grow some crazy stuff and this bull, his left side looked just like that. It was just amazing. And I’m like, man, it looks like a Pennsylvania bull. He’s just awesome. Yeah. And, and we knew right away, as soon as we saw him like that, that’s the bull right there. You know, there was nothing, nothing out there close to him, nothing at all, you know? And it’s just, you know, I may gonna kill a, a three 20 bull maybe out there this year and then, and then there’s that monster. And you know, I, so I, I, my tag’s good for 30 days. I’m, I’m in 23 days into my hunt and, and actually 22 days into my hunt, I said, you know what, maybe we should just go out there and kill one of our kill one of these other bulls and, or try tried to kill one of these other bulls with my bow.

And so we kind of settled on what we thought the number two was. And we went out there to go hunt him. Yeah. And that night we couldn’t find him when I got there. And the next morning we’re, we’re leaving camp and we’re glassing, glassing, some bowls. And I, and I look over right on the edge of private. I see the number one bull, Pennsylvania. And I’m like, there he is guys. He’s he’s back on the, on the island. Let’s, you know, we gotta make a plan to go after him. So our plan was to, to get in between him and the private property. First of all, cuz cuz we looked like he was slowly, slowly feeding towards private. So we got in between him and private and then he kind of pushed towards us and, and then he seen us. And so he pushed back on island, which is what we wanted. We wanted him to bed down or get in a spot where we could stalk him and wind’s blowing 30 miles an hour. So you there’s zero worries about wind or noise.

We, we, we tried to put some stocks on this bull and got, got pretty close to him. End up, end up getting an arrow off at him, hit him in the shoulder, hit the shoulder blade, just like two inches, two inches into that, into that blade. Yeah. And you know, tough. You could see there’s no penetration, the bull, the bull, you know, running it all. He, he, he ran a little bit and then he, then he just started walking again and feeding, shook it off and yeah, he was, he shook it off and, and we were like, wow. So we ended up not, not getting him. He went back, he joined some other bulls and we watched him most of the day out feeding and that, and he was just gonna go to private no matter what. And so we tried to cut him off to keep him on island. And at some point he seen us and in between him and private and was like, Hey, I’m going to private. And, and just decided to start running to private. And at that point I’m like, Hey, if he gets off, he’s not gonna come back on.


For the rest of the hunt, there’s only six days left of the hunt. So we, we luckily had the rifle right there and pulled the rifle out. And, and that was the end of the story. And I, or not, I shouldn’t say the end of the story cuz, cuz you know, I, I, I, I was able to, to get a good shot on him and, and, and, and harvest him. And, and to our surprise, when we walked up to him, he was way, way bigger than, than what we had ever imagined.


I mean this, this, this, I, I think animals, when they have so much mass, they really, really hide their time length.

Yeah. What did he, what did he end up going?

He ended up grossing 360 9 and seven eights. Geez. And then, yeah. Huge. And, and that is a super tight, tight tape on him. We, we undercut everything. E every measurement that was a 16th over, we undercut it and we were so tight on how we measured and, and where it comes off. I mean, he, he’s probably gonna grow, but he’s, he, he, he’s gonna grow over 360. He’ll be the number three all time boot and Crockett. The new number three for hunter killed Tuley.

Wow. Yeah. That’s pretty awesome. He, so where was he? He’s a giant. Where was he last year? You know what I mean? What was he

Last year? And the year before, the year before he probably wouldn’t even have broke three hun there two years ago. He wouldn’t have broke 300.


And, and last year I’d never seen him.

No kidding. Probably on private.

Never seen him on private the whole time. Probably. Yeah. And, and so that’s something else you got, you know, you go out there and you’re hunting all these animals and you’re like, okay, there’s four or five bulls that I like that are pretty, pretty nice bulls. And then, and then, you know, the rest are just, just bulls.


And, and you might, you go out there one day and you’ll see 50, 60 bulls. And then the next day you go out there and you see 15, and then you talk to the, the guys at the duck club on the west. And they’re like, we got 40 bulls on our property right now, or 50 bulls on our

Property. Wow.

And they just stay there. They’ll stay there for weeks at a time.

Yeah. Wow.

So it’s, it’s yeah. It’s, it’s an amazing place, but it’s, it’s, it can be frustrating. I’ll tell you that it can be frustrating. You can, you know, see something nice and have no, no opportunity to ever hunt it.

Yeah. But it’s kind of nice. You get a, you know, something you can do right there in California and you can crank, I mean, you know,

For yeah.

Gimme some other good reasons to live in California, bill. Yeah.

Yeah. There’s not a

Lot, not much.

I mean, yeah. There, you know what? California has big desert sheep, right?

Yeah. They never draw tech. They have, they have big, big sheep. Yep.

Huge sheep. We’ve got some great Rockies up in, in the Northeast corner. Yeah.

Yeah. Elk just giants. Yep.

Yep. Yep. There’s some giants up there. There’s some giant Roosevelts.


Giant EE.

Yeah. Yeah.

Not, I, I don’t think our bucks are too great, but I mean, occasionally, some guys get, you know, kill a, kill a big buck here and there they

Do. Yeah. They do. There’s some, that’s a pretty cool opportunity there actually, in some of that, stuff’s tough to draw. You’d have to buy a tag or something, but I don’t know that. And electric cars, have you got an electric car?

No, I won’t. I won’t get it. I drop kids off at school and, and there’s six electric cars in front of me and six behind me when I drop my kids, kids off. And I’m in a four wheel drive truck.

No kidding.

For real. They

Hate you. You’re you’re ruining the air quality limits.

Yeah. Yeah. I it’s, it’s tough. And then make, to make it worse. I think California is so mismanaged. I mean, they, they, they don’t allow hunting of mountain lions for forever.


I know. And, and like, I’ve, I’ve seen more mountain lines in California posted on people’s ring doorbells and, or on their security cameras in my neighborhood than, than on


Cameras in Arizona or Montana or Nevada, you know, other places or Nevada. Yeah. Yeah. I mean like, literally there’s, there’s mountain lion sightings in, in, in these residential neighborhoods, in my, my area. And there’s always missing cat, missing cat, missing dog missing this. And, and I just laugh cuz I love it. People are like, oh, oh my little, my little dog got outta the backyard. I’m like, no, your dog didn’t get out. Like he, he got eaten by the mountain line that you saw in your ring doorbell. Yeah.

HES. Yeah. He’s cat he’s cat crap right now.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, and it, it, it happens right. There’s yeah. People get attacked by mountain lions in California. There’s sidings everywhere. And it’s just, you know, you cannot go in one of these units where they, these D units, which is around my house and, and find a buck. Yeah. You just, you just can’t. I mean, if people see them a one, a one year old fork at horn, they, they shoot it. You know, there’s no age quality to any animals here and it’s, it’s terrible.

It’s crazy though, that the department doesn’t know some of the sheep that are out there and whatnot, like they just, I don’t know, like seems like they could do a better job surveying and whatnot. There’s been a lot of, you know, there’s just a lot of, a lot of opportunity out there, but who you gonna call? You know, who you gonna talk to? Yeah.

So yeah. I, hopefully they draw my tag one year. Yeah. Getting at max points for everything and I’ve, I’ve never drawn a tag in California. Yeah.

Crazy. Well, I appreciate you taking the time. I’m looking forward to the day that you’ve got a surfboard strap to the top of a Tesla.

No, no,

You’re not. No,

You, you won’t wanna talk to me if that day comes

That surfer. I tried surfing. It’s not easy. It is not easy.

No, I’ll try it. But it’s gonna be sitting on the, on my, on, on the back of my king ranch. Right.

So, right, right. Right.

For sure. So,

Well, good luck on the hunt. You’ve got going. I know you’re headed out. I’m glad I caught you tonight. I just kind of, it’s just awesome. I love the Bigfoot story. You, you know, of course, you know, you end up, you know, purchasing a special tag down there, but like you grounded out, you know what I mean for a couple of years and just, I just love, I love the story. I love the freaking deer. We appreciate it. Yeah. It’s you know, letting us have it it’s booth. I mean, it was awesome. Yeah.

I I’m glad you guys had it and it was awesome to share it with you guys and, and to have you guys score it for me in there. It was, it was awesome. So it’s crazy. Yeah. You know, it was great. Getting all the advice from you for two years, free

Free advice,

Free advice. It’s awesome. Right. To you. Let me, let me phone a friend.

Yeah. Well, I didn’t do much help. Yeah, you did. But I mean, and one time it seems like you did, you guys did end up glassing him up in that thick stuff under a tree, but such a rare thing to do and tough. And, and you know, I felt your pain, but I don’t know. Yes. All the, all that was, I mean, most of my deers still live and die of old age and you know, whatever. So anyway, this one, this one didn’t make it. And I was, I was proud of you guys, you guys worked, it worked dang hard and, and were successful. And he was just, just one of a kind. So

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Don’t ever give up. Right. All right. Yeah. You guys have a good night.

All right. Kay. You too, buddy. Appreciate you.

Yep. Take care. See you. Bye bye.

Well, pretty awesome story. And like he mentioned, we didn’t, we didn’t say it on here, but we did have his deer in our booth at the hunt expo. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it was just a

Monster. Yeah.

So kind some of the things I just wanted to kind of bring up that he said that I, think’s more important than you think. And that’s the phone of friend when you’re there. Sometimes you get there after five days, you’re, you’re almost on the edge of burnout. And, and just that fact of calling somebody up and talking to ’em about what’s going on. Even if they don’t have anything that’s, you know, earth shattering, but it, it can change your perspective and, and help a lot on a hunt.

Well, and a lot of times like I’ll phone a friend and it’s just nice to unload your burdens for a minute. And to have somebody say, I believe in you, you’re gonna do a go get back up on that knob. You know, what do you, you know, and just, it’s just nice to, you know, and, and then when you’re talking about it with somebody that knows the area or knows the country or whatever, at times you, you know, you just, you kinda unload what you’re thinking, what you’ve done and what you might potentially do. And it’s just nice to have a sounding board because it’s pretty lonely out there

It is. And it’s nice though. You’re really like upbeat whenever I’m out. And I call in, you know, and you’re, you’re like, oh, you’re gonna do good. You’re gonna

Do good I’ve shower. I’ve showered twice a day down here in the, you wouldn’t like it back here at the house, but

It’s nice. It’s nice. It just, yeah, it is it unloads your burdens. And so yeah, if, if you haven’t done that and just call somebody yeah.


Somebody and, and talk to em about it.

Call, call John or I yeah. Or anybody else that answers the phone here at epic. Yeah. And happy to visit with you. A lot of people are a little bit intimidated. They like thinking that we’re gonna run out there and hunt their buck. Like that’s absolutely never gonna happen. We, you know, we’ve got a full schedule year in and year out and bucks and deer and elk and things. We’ve got own our own plans. So anyway, it’s hard. It’s hard for guys to truly, you know, unload and say, Hey, I’m, I’m at my wits end on this, but I’ve had a, a lot on Instagram guys hit me and, and it’s awesome. Or even, Hey, what do you think this thing is gonna go? Am I just absolutely crazy on thinking it’s the next world’s record and, you know, whatever. And, and, and dudes are on some special animals and it’s pretty awesome. And I’m like the biggest cheerleader ever. I absolutely want ’em to kill it. Yeah. You

Know? Yeah, absolutely. You

Want no, no problems. I love it. I love it. I love hearing about other people’s successes and, and maybe being a small piece of just even if it was just a sounding board for a minute. So

One of the other things that he said that I, I identified with and that’s, we don’t get religious very often on this podcast, but when he’s talking about sitting up, they’re praying. I mean, I’m, I’m fairly who hasn’t, I’m fairly religious, but who hasn’t done that when I’m in the Hills, it’s like the heavens open up and I’m like, God’s next to me, you know? And I find out, please, please, you know? Yeah. So that was that’s

Fun. So walk me through that a little bit more. So you, do you, you pray aggressively.

Yes. Yeah. And, and I just, there’s something about being in the Hills. Yeah. That just, it like opens up. And I mean, me personally, it’s, it’s impossible to not be a believer when you’re in the Hills, you know? And I mean, I am anyway, but it’s just like, maybe it’s your higher, you’re closer to God. I don’t know what it is.

God. So you know how people are like, I mean, PE okay. So, so people are, you know, if you’re laying under the stars and you see the universe right. And everything that’s going on, you’re like, you know, how can there not be a God? Right. Right. And you go over that whole scenario. So I’m hiking along. And I see Elon Musks satellites, 40 or 50 of ’em in a row it’s star length up there in star world, hauling butt across the entire sky, goes across the entire sky and disappears. And I’m like, I gotta Google this. I think it’s his freaking satellites. And so I Google it. Sure enough, what, how does a private individual make it to where the whole world gets to see my satellites up there? Got it. And take part in pretty

Amazing. The whole

Star galaxy complex. I’m like, holy crap. Anyway,

I did have one kind of funny story about that. So my, my oldest son was like six maybe. And I took him fishing. We go to the league, we’re fishing, fishing, fishing, not one bite, you know? And he’s looking at me like, dad, you’re a lame fisherman. You


Well, then this hillbilly family, nothing wrong with hillbillies. But I mean, it’s like the clamp, it show up next to me and they pull out their power bait

And they crush

It and they crush it here. You,

Are you doing fly? Are

You fly fishing? No, we were spinner fishing, you know, and whatnot, just,

Just the metal lure.

It’s not gonna work like power. Like dad, we can catch a fish, you know? And I mean, I said prayer and I was like, please Lord. If, if, if you could answer one prayer, just let us catch one fish. I’ll

Never ask for anything else. My whole

Life, dude. I promise the next cast. He caught a fish and I was like, hallelujah,

We’re packing up and going home son, you killed it.

He was so happy. And I was just like, oh yes.


It’s funny.

Funny. If you go home and make him meet him, you might not ever have to take him fishing again, John. All right. Well, let’s call Devin. It’s I know it’s their bedtime and they’re in a tent down there in Arizona, but they’ve been having a good time. The elk are kind of going crazy from what I understand. I don’t know. I haven’t checked on this evenings hunt. Let’s just see if he answers the phone. I don’t know. It’s what? Nine 15. So here we go. Let’s give him a holler. I might Devin turns into a pumpkin about nine o’clock. Yeah, he does. Your

Call has been forward.

Yeah. I’m not gonna take no for an answer. You try gonna call Josh. Josh will answer every time. Yeah.


You and Devin spooning down there or what?

Wow. My hot dog got a hot dog in her mouth. Oh,

Wonderful. Yeah. Did you put, got mustard on it?

Oh yeah.

Is that all Devon’s cooking his hot dogs.

Oh yeah.

Oh geez.

He’s treating me with my hands are full. They’re like my dinner. I got soup out. New desert dogs,

Desert dogs. What’s a desert dog.

Oh, I’ll cook you one, one day.

It’s one. That’s a hot dog. That’s been way too long. Outside of a cooler

Shriveled up.

I don’t know what, I

Don’t know. What are you guys doing?

We’re just podcasting. It’s way past my bedtime.

Yeah, dude. I, I needed some food. Yeah. I, I was how many miles do today? Nine. Yeah, almost nine.

Nine. Is that include you guys getting out and open the gates?

Everything combined.

Well, we called you John.

You’ve gotta tell, tell him about this desert dog. For real. It’s really good.

It is not.

It’s a jalapeno cheddar brought

Oh, no kidding.

Oh, nevermind. I’m not supposed to give the recipe. Oh,

Cares. He wouldn’t answer. He wouldn’t answer his phone. So I had to call you

Pretty uneventful day today.

Was it?


So you built a blind. What else?

Weird five bugles. Well, I don’t know. Quite a few bulls, but just couldn’t. Yeah, we just picked the wrong ones.


You know what I

Mean? Are you running gunning? So you’re, you’re chasing bugles right now.


Too much water. You don’t feel like they’re coming into water in daylight hours or is it, you know, maybe it’ll dry up in the next few days. What are you thinking?

That’s that was my gut feel. Yeah. It’s getting warmer every day and


We had elk on water last night. Right, right at dark. We kind of raced them back to the water and they just held up. But yeah. Got water. I don’t know. Put a blind up just in case. And didn’t hear a bugle anywhere near it tonight.


Had another bowl. I think he had cows. He just held up and then just turned and walked and I never did catch him. I don’t know.

Geez. How many hunters have you seen?

A handful? Like

Three or four.


I’m that crazy? What

Are you so happens the worst, most undesirable place on the whole unit,

The lowest density, most garbage place on the unit.

Pretty much

Have it to yourself. Chase a few bugles you’re gonna do well.


Pretty awesome. Pretty awesome. Well, right on, we just kind of wanted to get an update. Of course you’re in the heat of battle. People are probably hunting the unit and gonna be listening to this podcast. So we don’t wanna give away too much right

There. Not a lot to give

You’re you’re on a roll. Devon

Yesterday, yesterday was just one of those days that you make all the right decisions. You know what I mean? Yeah. And we got lucky and a bull just was, he was just, he came out 50 yards and had a big, giant dead snag. And I had a couple windows, but I just didn’t. Yeah, I didn’t take it. We had another bull between me and Josh and this bull has cows. I’m thinking he’s gonna come run this bull off. And he didn’t, he just let him go. And wow. I never saw him. I chased him, chased him, chased him till dark and ran outta light.

Huh. But

Yeah, today was, we made all the wrong decisions. It felt like

So well, tomorrow’s a new day, so yeah. Pretty, pretty awesome. You guys are down there cranking. All right. Well that’s about it. I mean, do you have any elk hunting advice for everybody else out there? That’s hunting elk right now. You’re not calling much. Are you? You’re just you’re you’re running and gun and chasing bugles. Maybe making ’em call making ’em bugle.

Yeah. We’ve been calling quite a bit. I’ve just say, I mean like always say don’t be timid. If I, if I would’ve went a little harder yesterday, I held up for a minute thinking he was gonna come back when that other bull was there. Yeah. If I would’ve hundred yards unbeknownst to me, they’re great. Big, giant clearing. And he would just Rutten cows in there. I just, I didn’t, you know? Yeah. I was too timid.


Should have went for it.

Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, good luck tomorrow. I can’t wait. I love the daily updates. So

Yeah. We’re we should have a good night. We, we pulled our sleeping bags out. We’re gonna try and see if we can find star link tonight. So

We were just talking about this. Yeah. The Elon Musk satellites. I mean, every time when you look at the stars, you’re supposed to think about the universe and how awesome it is. And you know, that God created all that. And then all of a sudden, Elon comes flying across the sky and you’re like, really?

I’ll tell you what, if they’re out there, we’re gonna see ’em tonight. It’s unreal. Yeah. It’s

I was hiking along right at daybreak. I mean, it was dark with headlamp, but, but breaking in the east and all of a sudden these 40 or 50 satellites come ripping and I mean, they are hauling. I’d like to know how fast they’re going.

You saw ’em

Jason. I saw ’em. I

Saw, I told you it’s insane.

No, it’s insane. I never seen anything like it. I Google it. How many Google? It

We’re in a row like 30,

40? No, they say there’s like 40 something, but it, I thought there might be 60 when I was looking at it. It was, and they’re perfectly spaced. They’re a perfect line. And they are freaking hauling. Yeah. And I was, and I was just like, I kind of felt lucky to see ’em. I mean, it was like, I was, you know, some, it was some special event, you know, and anyway, went across the entire sky outta sight. Hey,

Well you got a bull bugling right here

Right now.

Yeah. While we’re eating desert dogs.

How many desert dogs you each can eat?

I actually ate two tonight.


I was hungry.

Yeah. You guys have some, you guys, you guys have a good handful of wet wipes. Cause you might need ’em. Those things sound disgusting. Josh. He wants to talk a lot more, but gotta keep it G Josh gotta keep it G

I’m just listening.

All right guys. Good luck in the morning. Let me know how it goes. All

Right. We’ll send you ke picks in the morning.

All right. Sounds good. Talk to you later. Bye.


Let’s. Let’s call Wyatt. Okay, so you feel answer? Yeah. She’s COO. I know he’s been hunting deer.


Hey, what are you doing?

You there? Yeah.

Hey, this is the

Late edition. The

Podcast late edition of the podcast.

The late edition of the podcast.

Usually I’m in bed by now.

I’m just driving past the office now.

Oh, you are? Yeah. Give us a quick update. Like dude, how’s things looking.

Yeah. I think things are good. I just finished guiding Aon on hunter guy. I had to come back for the last week of the hunt and kill the great buck. So that’s,

What’s amazing when they come back for a couple of days, archery, you’re just thinking, I don’t know. Are we throwing good money after bad? Like, are we really gonna make it happen? The velvet’s stripped and everything.

And then you kind of a

Slam a great buck.

Yeah. It was kind of a battle of himself too. If it was worth, you know, coming back for three days or you don’t stay at work and he decided to come back.

Geez. It’s awesome. So, well, that’s awesome. So what’s the forecast for some of these, you know, what’s your opinion on Utah bucks and bulls quality? I

Think it’s a great year or definitely a lot better than last year. So yeah. I mean, I would say phenomenal best year ever, but it’s a, it’s a good year.

It’s a really good year. Deer wise and excellent year elk wise. Wouldn’t you say?

Yeah. I think Saturday here in Utah, you’re gonna see a lot of big bulls hit the ground.

Yeah. Pretty exciting. It’s a fun, fun time to be alive, you know?


Definitely. Unless you’re Jason and doesn’t, doesn’t believe in elk CN in September. That’s gonna change Wyatt. I’m done with that.

This is it. From here

On out. I’m done.

September’s for elk. Yeah,

Done. I’m done screwing around.

I like it.

All right. So you’re gonna hunt elk a little bit and then maybe finish up the month hunting deer.

Yeah. So I’m yeah. That’s basically kind of my schedule right there headed over to San Juan for some elk hunts and then maybe hang out with you for a minute. Chase deer.

That’d be awesome. Yep. We’ll take you. We’ll take, you

See what we can turn up there.

Yeah. And then, and then you got some white tail hunts and other stuff going.

Yeah. So we’ve got a white tail hunt coming up end of next month. 1st of November. Not exactly sure when it’s gonna fall into place and yeah. Still chasing the turnbacks in Colorado a little bit and watching Nevada as well. So you never know what could

Happen. Yeah. And I think you’re, you potentially looks like you’re going into Mexico elk.

Yes. That could definitely be a possibility. So

Yeah. Text

Find that out pretty, pretty quick.

Pretty awesome. Pretty awesome. So

I have a few good stories for you.

Yeah. It’s good. Good stuff. You’re done with all the concerts

Done with concerts. Got my last one out of the way. It was the last weekend.

So your hero to the wife?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got husband of the year and it was a great concert too. I’m actually enjoyed that one and had a good

Time. So did you no kidding. Why it’s one of the few guys. I know that like he can go to a concert and he can tell you 10 people that he saw that he knows there. Like he’s watching, he’s a people watcher of epic proportions.

I, I do enjoy some people


Paying attention.

So how many did you see a few friends there?

There was a handful there. Yeah.

Guaranteed. Did you say hi to any of them?

I did. Yeah. A couple trends there, so. Alright.

Alright. How’s Carly doing? She good?

Yeah. Everything’s good there. So

Good. Well, if she’s good, you’re good. So yeah. And then if you’re good, we’re good. So, so if Carly’s good, we’re good. So, all right. All right, guy. Well, thanks for answering we’re I’m yeah, I’m going to bed. So yeah,

I don’t blame you is almost nine 30

Tonight. Hey, you go to bed early, too.

Well, I’m on my way there.


Can’t get home fast enough.

Be careful. You’re gonna get a speeding ticket down this 40.

I might

All, all guys later guys. All right, bye. All right, John, I, I don’t have anything more. Do

Have anything more, just, just fun to get a little update from everybody. And maybe let’s throw out a, you know, shout out to a couple of our sponsors that, that support us and help us bring these podcasts to you guys right on red rock. Precision is one that we really, really appreciate. They’ve been a, a sponsor and a supporter since the beginning. And so they make an awesome custom gun and check them out. Red rock, precision.com. You can give them a call and they’ll, they’ll talk to you on the phone, go over things. You might also want to talk, check out our YouTube channel. We have one video with them. That’s that has millions of plays. Yeah. So, well,

They’re good people. You know what I like about good people. They’re good people that they’re good


But I’m telling you in this day and age, I like supporting good people. Yeah. Just gonna say that. I think we should support good people. Yep. So anyway, so another shout out to phone scope. P H O N E S K O P E. Great products. Incredible. I have it in my pack right now. Never leaves my pack and video pretty much anything that’s important and they’re awesome. Good, good people at phone scope, great products, very formal

One product. I like to mention this year, they’ve got an adapter for GoPro camera. So you can put a GoPro right on your scope, spotting scope or whatnot. No, I’m kidding. And the new GoPros are taking awesome footage. Wow. And dev Devin and

Josh have one right now.

Josh have one right now. Devin had had one. We’re gonna talk about Devin’s hunt. That he just killed that dropper buck on. Yeah. But he’s got a GoPro on and it’s pretty awesome. Like you can, you can see him breathing and does he

Lose his crowd? He

Does. But it’s funny cuz he is like, I didn’t realize, you know, that I lost my crowd. That I was just, I was breathing like that. Yeah. You know and stuff. And I’m like, I’m glad I’m not the only one, you know? Yeah. Proof,

Proof that he gets excited.

So pretty, pretty

Cool. Well that’s awesome. Yeah. Good, good products there at phone scope. Give ’em a holler. You can obviously go to their website, www.phone scope.com or you can find ’em on social medias. Be Instagram, Facebooks, whatnot. So at phone scope, P H O N E S K O P E.

Okay. And yeah, just like to give another shout out for our membership. If you don’t know what we do, then we’ve got a membership, 150 bucks a year, you get nine magazines. We cover Western big game hunting. If you’re not hunting outta state, then you know, you’re, you can’t draw enough tags in one state in your home state, you know, to, to go hunting every year, typically and on good hunts. So you need to be applying in multiple states and we help you do that. You know, you can call and talk to one of our consultants, anytime about which states you should be doing. I

Have guys hit me like, Hey, I wanna go on one good hunt next year. Look at my points and tell me what you do. All right, Wyoming out. These are your options. In my opinion, these are your best options for the quality. And it’s just nice to have somebody to bounce, bounce ideas off of. So anyway. Yep. We’re like, like John said, we’re 150 bucks a year. Well worth it. Give us a holler. 4 35, 2 60. Yeah. 7, 7, 7. Or

You three zero sound sound, sound. Or you can check @epicoutdoors.com.

If you go to epic outdoors.com, we also have a place you can download some 40% off coupons for under armor. Anything on their website. Doesn’t have to be hunting related. You get 40% off. I think they’re $2,000 cards you can get multiples.

Yeah. Amazing, amazing deal on that.

Great. For Christmas Christmas gifts. I mean, we give those out to our friends. Of course, anybody can go to the website and get ’em. So it’s well worth it. It’s awesome. Kids, soccer, cleats, whatever, whatever you need. But you know, obviously the hunting stuff’s loaded and we’ve been ordering heavy on all the hunting gear. The ISLI chill shirts are incredible. I’ve been in hunter lots of hundred and plus degree weather in weird, crazy places. And I’d be dead without it. So anyway. Great, great products.

I think they’re they’re hot weather gear has come leaps and bounds in the last couple years. Yeah. So yeah, if you’re, if you’re

They got the RA Raider light pants that are a porous. Amazing. Yep. And on top with the ISO chill shirt, it’s pretty awesome. So anyway, all check ’em out. ua.com and good

Luck out

There. Yeah. Well you too, dude. What do you got going? Got anything coming up?

Nothing for a little bit. You’re

Gonna be moving into a house. Yeah.

I’m trying to get asked done. And it’s it’s about yeah. About the most frustrating thing you ever build the house. So

A year and something later and you did your close, did you end up closing?

Ended up closing, but man, it it’s like one, one thing goes wrong after another, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

It makes you mad at the government. Even the local governments. Yeah. I mean it does like dealing with building permits in the simplest stuff in the world. It’s like, you never wanna do it again your whole life. Yeah. You know, so true. But anyway, so sorry you’re going through that. Yep. I can tell you you’re not missing anything in, in, in the places I’ve been in the places

You’ve been. Yeah. So

Yeah. All right, guy. All right. Talk to you later, everybody.

Thanks for listening at epic

Outdoors, we help you reach your hunting dreams, whether it’s helping you to develop the long-term application strategy or finding the perfect outfitter for your next hunt. As a member of epic outdoors, you’ll also receive epic outdoors magazine and have access to the best hunting consultants in the industry. Online tools and more to join epic outdoors, visit epic outdoors.com or call 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7.