In this episode the whole Epic Crew gets together and talks through their biggest hunting regrets, whether it be applying for certain units, not applying for certain units or not having the right gear. There’s always reason to think hindsight is 20/20 and that is no different when 6 veteran hunters get together. Also in this Episode, the Epic Outdoors March Madness Giveaway is announced! Search Epic Outdoors Giveaway and Use code “muley” to enter! Rules and instructions given in this podcast.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

01:23:07:18 –> 01:24:33:07
Anything to do with Western Big Game. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. All right, before we get this podcast started, Logan and I have a special announcement for the giveaway that we’re going to be doing here. This’ll be a little bit of a different giveaway. We just barely came up with the other day, and it’s actually gonna be about a month long. Not quite a month, I guess. Yeah, a few weeks long, but it’ll be kind of a different one. Kind of a fun one. I don’t know whether you guys out there are basketball fans. I try and watch stuff occasionally, basketball, sports and things, but don’t really have enough time. But usually March Madness, super Bowl, things like that. At least try and try and watch those kind of fun. But one of the things we’ve decided to do with March Madness beginning and since how we can’t go shed hunting or anything else fun like that, I guess we’ll just have to watch a bunch of basketball games. But we’re actually gonna do a giveaway, a optics giveaway with an NCAA Men’s Tournament Bracket Challenge. So here’s the thing, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna run this on the ESPN Tournament Challenge app. So what you’re gonna wanna do is go to download the ESPN Tournament Challenge app and get that on your phone.

01:24:33:12 –> 01:25:45:23
Go on and create a username and all that, and then go in there and we’re gonna have a bracket called the Epic Outdoors giveaway. Find that there. We’re also gonna have a link on our social media stuff. We’re gonna have a link in our bios to that if you want to go directly to it. But it’ll be easy to find. Once you get your username built, you just go in there and you can search a bracket name, start typing it in, and it’ll come up. But it’ll be the Epic Outdoors giveaway. It’s gonna require password to get in there. We’re not just gonna allow anybody in there. It’s only gonna be people who either listen to this podcast or guys that follow us on social media. We’re gonna do a couple social, social media announcements, so it’s not gonna go out to the entire world, just the guys that are following us. So anyway, go in there, create a bracket. I guess. First of all, it is going to be a private bracket, so the password to get in there is going to be muley, all lowercase, M-U-L-E-Y. So that’ll be, that’ll allow, you’ll have to type that in before you join the bracket. And when you do, make sure you edit the name of your bracket to have your first initial and last name at least to give us kind of an idea and put that in there.

01:25:46:18 –> 01:27:00:29
The winner, we’re gonna be, obviously the NCA tournament. There’s no winners, no, no participation points or trophies for second place. So winner take all here. Yep. So it’s gonna be the first, the guy that wins it all gets to, we’ll send him this razor vortex, razor HD spotting scope. That’s the 27 to 60 by 85. Pretty sweet spotting scope. It’s gonna be yours, free and clear. All you have to do is make a bracket pretty easy. It’s kind of fun that that bracket is going to lock Thursday by the time the first game starts. So you’ll have now what? Today? Well, this’ll probably come out like Friday. I guess you’ll have, of course, over the weekend. Sunday is when they’ll announce the brackets. So basically from Sunday through Thursday, early morning, you want to get a bracket in is when you don’t have time to do it. So whatever sources you use, whether you have to chase, I don’t know, some kind of an animal, have animal races, boil eggs in the microwave, whatever you need to do to figure out how you’re gonna run your bracket, get that in there. Name your bracket, like I said, first, initial last name. And we’re gonna require, you’re gonna need to be following us on Instagram. That’s where we’re gonna be doing any of our updates or any information on there. As well as the winner does have to be following us on Instagram.

01:27:01:00 –> 01:28:08:10
We’re gonna cross-reference that and make sure that they are there. But you’re gonna wanna follow us there anyway then, so the what, the last game I, I believe is April 3rd, which is a Monday, April 3rd. So once that’s over, the cool thing about it is if you haven’t done this before, it just tracks itself. So you’ll be able to, every game it updates with the points of who’s winning, who’s losing, we’ll be able to see who’s in the lead and who’s last. Something to keep in mind is all of us here in the office, maybe not everybody, but we’re gonna try and get everybody. Jason says he doesn’t watch basketball, but who knows, we’re gonna get him to join you make a bracket. Yeah, so I guess if you, if you can beat Adam and Devin or, or Wyatt, I mean, he’s a pretty big sports fan, so don’t get on there. Don’t take his advice. But I would get on there and create a bracket, obviously. See if you can see if you can beat us here in the office and the winner gets to take home this spotting scope. But anyway, get those brackets in. It’d be a cool, just kind of a fun thing we’re gonna do. Never done it before. So we’re gonna try it out and see how it goes.

01:28:09:00 –> 01:29:30:26
Yeah, if the technology side is sending a little bit scary to you, we’ll have a link in our Instagram bio, take you right to the bracket, and you’ll just be able to, it’ll kind of walk you through it from there. Make an account, create a back bracket, pick your teams. And Josh joined just a minute ago. It didn’t seem too difficult, so we’re No, we went ahead and, and Logan went and got it all set up. Like I said, the, the tournament bracket is called Epic Outdoors Giveaway. So go on there and yeah, let’s, let’s get it on. Yeah, we just wanted to make that little announcement before we start the podcast. So hope everybody enjoys the podcast. Yep. Enjoy it. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Adam Bronson, John Peterson. How are you John? I’m good. We got Wyatt too. Wyatt. I’m here not the big grand entrance because don’t want you to walk out of here and get mad at me. Wyatt’s here. Devon’s here. Josh is here. It’s on a Friday. Everybody’s ready to go shit hunting, right? Oh wait, yeah, shut down. Head to Arizona this weekend. All Utah guys head to Arizona. May 1st to the seventh, whatever. Don’t we have a seven day window? What do you mean? We can’t do anything in Wyoming. March 3rd in Arizona. March 3rd, that’s today. Oh, yeah. Well, I’m just getting excited about, but what are we gonna do in that seven day window where everybody else is out frolicking?

01:29:32:13 –> 01:30:40:07
Anyway, we’re gonna pass some reciprocity laws for Wyoming. Its, you want that might be home podcast, I think. I think we should, I think actually if your resident in your state, whatever non-resident limitations you have, you have to abide by those same limitations when you leave your state. So for example, Wyoming residents can’t hunt wilderness areas in any other state. Yeah. And there’s a lot of, in Utah, Nevada, there’s a lot in BLM. Yeah. How about we’re not talking back country New Mexico 16 B. Oh, yeah. Or sheep hunts. Yeah. You know what I mean? That’s right. Without a guy hire something without a guy, let’s do it. Maybe we give some of our non-resident permits to our outfitters to sell. I don’t know. There’s some, there’s some things to think about. That would be an interesting podcast. Let’s tee that up for a week or two from now. You don’t wanna do it right now. I mean, that’s as far as I need to go with it. I mean, we don’t need a whole podcast on that. Okay. Maybe not. We’re just a little bit angry for a minute. Just, I don’t know. Everybody has a right to make laws in their own state. Just Yeah. Can’t have your key can eat it too sometimes. So maybe we’ll put it right back at you. It’s kind of crazy times. We’re dealing with a few things here in Utah too.

01:30:40:07 –> 01:31:50:05
Just, you know, things that are getting passed that were surprises that we didn’t get to weigh in on. I mean, I don’t know, just a lot of crazy times, don’t you think? Why? Yeah, definitely. It’s been a while. Social media, and it doesn’t even bother to try to stay on top of it because stuff metamorphos sizes over a week or two or days. And so it goes from one proposal gets shot down four times, goes through six iterations, and you know, with the buzzer, it’s kinda like stealing something on eBay at the buzzer, you know, with a bid, you get something added two lines into something, adding a whole new something to a, a writer to a bill that didn’t even have anything to do with, you know, something, whether it be chokes or lines or whatever, some crazy, it’s crazy politics. And I think part of it, you know, I don’t part of it, it just, it it, it kind of tells us that our original system is a little bit broken. The fact that it just feels like you can’t get anything done. Like it takes 14 committees, 13 years later, you’re still praying about stuff and can’t really ever make a decision, you know? And so then people are getting frustrated. They go around and take it to the legislature and sneakily, sneaky snake takes it all through the pa the pondering period’s taken too long. Yeah, right. That’s what it feels like.

01:31:50:07 –> 01:33:03:01
You’ve mentioned prayer, but the pondering portion’s taken way too long. That’s what I’m talking about. I mean, for all intents and purposes, all the discussions and meetings and it just can’t get anything done. You got racks, you got all these opinions. Nobody, everybody, everybody wants everything their way. And if it’s not their way, it’s the wrong way. And then you, and you get passionate about it. Well, and that’s what makes it hard to go through a committee and interact, because there’s, it’s about inclusion, right? Yeah. It’s about voicing an opinion. It’s about being heard. But then, man, there’s, there’s too many opinions. I, and I’m just saying that in a generic sense. Yeah. Everybody’s got opinions on how they need to, to do it. It’s very hard and frustrating to sit through and make what’s change happen. Unfortunately, certain legislators are, you know, making that happen with a couple sentence and just, and the boards are trying to please everybody. There’s really nice, awesome people on our board, you know, at the Wildlife Commission, and you’re just, you know, they want to please everybody and they got all these opinions hitting them, and with the information age and, and being able to hit people in three seconds and texting and emails, and they’re, they’re scared to make a decision that might make people mad. And your every decision makes lots of people mad. And so then decisions don’t get made in a timely fashion.

01:33:03:04 –> 01:34:13:16
We watch our deer plumbing and 14 other issues that need to be addressed. And tech, just like the technology stuff can’t, you know, that’s in committee will be forever, it feels like. So anyway, I see why it happens, but then now you’re watching it happen and it bypasses everybody and everything, and you get one guy that’s creative that gets it through. Well, and I think of the last few years, probably since 2020, just mandates, and a lot of us feel like government overreach and all that kind of stuff. And so it’s all fresh on people’s mind. And so then when it comes something into a sport or something you do or you love very much, it becomes really, really personal. And you go from zero to 100 fast. I mean, it started with making you wear a mask or whatever, you know, that people, I’m not gonna do that. Government overreach, whatever. Now it’s somebody potentially doing something, a livelihood that you love, or you know, an industry that you’re in something and, and it’s, you know, people are passionate now and and tired of things like the overreach potentially, and nobody likes the overreach, right? But then all of a sudden we have a 200 yard crossbow with a turret on it. Yeah. And, and Wyoming allows crossbows. And so then you say, well, there needs to be more regulation, right? Yep.

01:34:13:16 –> 01:35:13:12
Like, if we’re not gonna govern ourselves and, and we’re gonna continue with these kinds of, you know, advances in technology. I’m the last guy that wants to, thinks we need more regulation, but yeah. Do we really need 200 yard CrossBoss with TURs? Is that the idea of archery hunting so we can get the old guys back in it because their shoulders are blown out? Or even the young guys that just wanna be able to shoot 200, like me, I wanna shoot 200, but I don’t know, it’s not, I don’t believe it’s right. It’s not the spirit of archery hunting. And so, you know, we’re in these crazy times, don’t you guys think? Oh yeah. In every state, lot of change. We could, we could spend 15 minutes on every state, you know? I mean, but it doesn’t do any good. Like I said, you can talk about a proposal, just wait till what gets passed. I mean, if you’re in that state, you’re gonna get involved. You know, it’s hard for us to get involved in every state issue and weigh in. We do occasionally on, on, you know, when they’re asking about non-resident, you know, issues in, you know, Wyoming and maybe Colorado survey that have gone out. We do that.

01:35:13:25 –> 01:36:29:00
But I mean, the iterations from the first survey to what ended up getting changed, you know, we could have had five podcasts that conflict each other about what, whatever’s being bantered back and forth. So, I mean, we could break it up just for a minute and tell a couple hunting stories. Well, or, or talk about the best thing I heard all week, the quotes from Jason. There we go. You want me to go grab your stickies or do you remember? I No, he, oh, I look at ’em every day. Okay. For all of you listening to this, at any day, we’re gonna be able to post a piece of paper, post it. Hey, you can’t make something up about me. I just, sometimes I come up with ideas. No. So Jason was researching Colorado Moose, and there’s some giant, the biggest shire mo you do remember this. Wow. The biggest shire moose anywhere in the west right now are coming from Colorado, multiple giants. And that’s not what he brought to our attention, was it? He was talking about the easiness of drawn longed brown-eyed ones. Yeah. The ease of drawing cow moose tags in Colorado. I don’t know why. And he kind of said what I kind of want one, I don’t want one, but Bronson, and I’ve never wanted to kill a female. Anything, ever.

01:36:29:11 –> 01:37:35:00
You, Janet, have I ever killed a female anything unless it’s a coyote and I’ll kill every one of ’em. But you get going just like you and I get going about stuff that we don’t even, we, we have no interest at all. But you get vested. But then you see one that went to a guy that didn’t even have his three, didn’t you see that? Didn’t even have his three base points’ that he got too. Right? So I started looking at drawing odds. I made Kurt add the cow moose drawing odds to our website. I made a, I made mention of it. So, hey, a paragraph in our magazine, he’s gone through phases with antelope. And now the cow moose phases just older, just begun. And the older you get, they say the older you get, you just cherish the hunt and not the trophy and the meat. And in your defense, you were talking about four or 500 pounds of awesome meat. You were talking about that. That’s the most crimson red. It is gorgeous meat. Iron had full moose tag and did not. Huh? What? Okay. What, what minute are we at? It’s the big long eyelashes against cow moose that get, it’s, it’s true. Jenna doesn’t even know probably, but I did have a, a moose test. Well, it was one of those times that you’re like, you know, I’ve been gone away from the family a lot, a lot. You sacrifice.

01:37:35:00 –> 01:38:37:14
I better stay, I better stay home this, this time. That’s exactly right. You family first you exercise self restraint. Yeah, I did. Okay. That’s the other quote. We come out here out his office a lot. Family. First I hope to salvage that one boss. Let’s move on. It was so, okay, so everybody listening to this podcast has regrets, right? In our hunting lives, we have regrets. My regrets are once in a while, if you miss a Kyle, like that’s a huge regret, right? Or you don’t go on a specific hunt or, or maybe you chose the wrong hunts to go on. Like right now we’re really contemplating like, do we go north or south? Like you’re gonna go south, right? I’m, there’s all this water down here. But anyway, ended up with a tag and, and I didn’t take advantage of it, turned it back, but I’ve killed a moose. And I was like, you know, I just can’t make it happen. At the time, it was also you’d say an average, you kind of, yeah. You were in Jason Carter mode, meaning you were after a kill, the drawing, the tags, the kill. Yeah. But then all of a sudden, like Jason Carter mode, I, I went after odds. You went after drawing odds at time. I did.

01:38:37:20 –> 01:39:37:28
But now it’s like one of the best units in the state that was, and I’m looking at all these giants was eight, 10 years ago though, when you got this. Yeah. And now I’m thinking I’m, I’m back in, I’m, I’m back in fully. And, and you did select the refund box, right? And not the, I’m not gonna talk about that either. Well, it was probably a time, the, I love this. You might had a bunch of kids and mouse to feed at home are more important than interest recreational. So interesting how Wyatt, Wyatt doesn’t say a word except for antagonistic. Point poking. Gotta love Wyatt. Thank you Wyatt. Yeah, anytime. So I’m here for, so anyway, yeah, I have a couple regrets. Another one is not gaining sheep points in Wyoming years ago, bro, remember? Oh yeah, that’s right. And it was, and we had ’em, but then we’re like, oh, they’re going up and raising their fees and we’ll never draw anyway. And then now we we’re old dudes looking back on it saying, well, that would’ve been a sheep tech. And it’s, if I would’ve done it a couple years sooner, two or three, it would’ve, it’s it would’ve been monumentally different. Yeah. You know, the writing was on the wall. That’s even before the new 90 10 rule stuff.

01:39:38:01 –> 01:40:51:07
But yeah, if I, if you had a crystal ball, I’d be, we, we probably wouldn’t have drawn because everybody would’ve started back, back then if you knew what the crystal ball was. What do he got? What? I just wondering what he’s doing with these papers. Well, I was gonna write some notes and now I’m just a mess. He’s nervous. Jan knows. Wind out like five of, he had a lot of notes. Anyway, Wyatt, talk about a regret of yours now. My regrets. Yes. I don’t regret anything. Yes, you do. Wyatt, what do you regret? Oh, we’re not talking about college days. We’re not talking about only hunting related, hunting related regrets. Probably spending the money on the Airbnb and fuel to go to 11 2 11 in Colorado. Wyatt. Whoa. That has everything to do with me again. Wyatt, who tucked you into that hunt? Remind me. I don’t remember. You put me on the spot. That’s all that came to my head. Which means it’s at the top of his head. Okay, so let me explain this. How many years ago was that? And it’s still the first thing that comes to his mind. Yep. Rolled off five unit 15 fourth doesn’t come to his mind. How was that for you? Why? It didn’t work out very well either, but No, we’re gonna talk about 11 2 11 happened 14 years ago. So why? And I, and by the way, it was mine too.

01:40:51:08 –> 01:42:10:04
Like you and I both hate it. Yeah, we, we were there sucked. Hunt was terrible. And, but it’s surrounded by amazing units and, and or there was a lot of deer though. I mean, it was, we did see a lot of deer. Wasn’t there a bitter brush? National monument? What is that? It is, it’s called bitter brush. May be Colorado. What? Come on. What’s it? Yes. Yeah, it was, I think it was, yeah, it’s bitter brush, bitter brush park or something. Park or something. Fact, check this one. And it is a bitterbrush factory. Fact, check it right now. Bitterbrush, whatever. Is it just a topograph, a topographical feature or a state? No park? No. It’s like, as far as the, I can see might a wildlife management area or something. Maybe the most amazing deer feed on planet earth for miles should have been two hundreds all over in it. Should’ve, could’ve, would’ve. Hey, you won something. Lose some. So then you know why, why? He just doesn’t take responsibilities for his own actions. It’s gotta be somebody else’s fault. And this one was mine and I ate the tag two. Oh boy. All right. Nevermind. Why we’re stalling? Waiting for these why’s got a regret. What else threw me on the, the spot, John? His regret. Regret going too fast on a Mexican road on wheeler, on four, on Aer, when the cattle guard’s messing with the cattle guard’s gone and doing end over end.

01:42:10:08 –> 01:43:26:04
You’re lucky you came back. In all seriousness, I’m so lucky. Lucky you, you could have so lucky, broken neck, whatever. I mean, I, I smashed my gun case with my face. Would’ve had extradited your body somehow. Back to the states. Yeah. Crack, crack. My gun case. Where would Epic be without you, John? Jesus. Man. Bronson we’re pretty lucky he made it. Trust me. It was probably a week before magazine deadline. What would he done? What would’ve done Gone. Gone. You know, done a paper, eight 10 pages. Anybody that’s really good at graphic design, go ahead and give Adam a call. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. We definitely need a backup. John. No more Mexico trips. No more Mexico. Yeah, no more John. All right. That’s the only regret or one of the, one of the, yeah. Nothing. I, I have a, a New Mexico archery hunt that I would do different. Yeah. You know, like some of those you learn. You talking Unit 15. Unit 15. You ran cameras crushed it. I ran cameras. It was awesome. And I should’ve just sat water Yeah. Early. Yeah. You had the early hunt, didn’t you? Yeah, I had the early hunt first of 14. And you just don’t know. They’re not gonna be bugling at all. And you know, you waste a lot of time and if, if I would’ve sat water every day, it would’ve get a couple blind buddies and just the whole buddies, all the, it would’ve been awesome. Yeah.

01:43:26:17 –> 01:44:27:18
Janna got us those for our Christmas party. She’s amazing. Thank you Jana. I love it. She’s always supportive in all of our crazy ideas. By the way, Wyatt and Fact checked Go ahead. Yeah, it is the bitter brush state wildlife area. And so you see it and there’s great big signage and I mean, as far as you can see, it wasn’t designated by Congress, but it does have a name on a map. Well, I don’t know who designated, but it was right, right? Was it not miles of it? It was unbelievable the amount of bitter brush. I do remember you telling me about that after you guys went nothing but fores. I mean, geez. Well, as many fork keys you could count though. I, I couldn’t count that. I, why, why, why didn’t we start off with the positive? Why don’t we start off with the positive? Probably one of the coolest for key factories that I’ve ever seen in my, that’s always, he’s always a downer. Hey there, we started off with this. That’s a new term that we should put in the mag. A KY Factory. Factory. That’s right. Let’s do it. Bronson and I challenge each other to use a certain word in our, sometimes throw one word out each magazine and hope it gets by Jana. Jason uses, you have to use this. And I’m like, all right, you have to use this.

01:44:28:14 –> 01:45:49:06
So if it’s ever kind of doesn’t fit, there’s, there’s ulterior motives. Sometimes maybe roll with it doesn’t have to be perfect. Pre scout. Josh, what do you re what do you regret? Oh, come on. Hunting related. Josh, that’s don’t the side worry beat. I’m worry what you’re gonna say. We can edit this. Okay. But we can’t unhear what we hear. That’s a good point. I might be scarred for life. He’s a hurry. I got plenty. He’s a thing. It’s just like, I love those Santa Claus cheeks. He is in freaking red right now. I’m getting nervous. I got, I got plenty of things to regret in my life. But one of ’em reminds me of a story when I was a game warden. This was a long time ago. So every time we say the word game warden Wyatt starts sweating. Yeah, he does. Wyatt. He might even just, why does all these go back to me? Everything circles to Wyatt. Well, Wyatt and I we’re on the side of the office that there’s no game wardens on. Yeah, the non-gay side. Alright, go ahead Josh. Somehow I get lumped into that even though I never held know. It’s not the story of Wyatt when I got to spend a few hours with you one day. Oh, no kidding. Little investigating going on. Wow. Tell us more. I wasn’t, I wasn’t a game warden at that point. I don’t think you get much outta wup.

01:45:50:05 –> 01:46:41:19
But what Josh, I, when I was a game warden, so I was with my sergeant one time, I was a pretty new officer and I got, I got schooled by some kids on a four wheeler up on Beaver Mountain. We were driving along up there and they didn’t have permits with them or anything. And, and how do you know there’s some details of the story that would make it all come together, but I can’t, I can’t give those here. We could share that after. But they, they were lying and I knew they were so I was like, well, I’m gonna follow ’em. I told ’em, I was like, well, do you have your licenses? And they said, yeah, we’re back at our camp. So anyway, we tried to follow ’em back to their camp and they were going like two miles an hour when we were on the Good Dirt Road. And I was in the three quarter ton dodge truck that I had bought ’em a little time to think. And the second, yeah, the second we got off on this little two track, we were coming up and they were going faster and faster. And I was like, okay, any second, I gotta turn my lights on and like get ’em to slow down. ’cause I could had a hard time keeping up with ’em.

01:46:41:19 –> 01:47:41:13
And all of a sudden we came up and I come around the corner and there’s a split in the road and they’re gone. And so I’m like, you’re kidding me. And all I can see is I hurry, get out and I can hear a four-wheeler just blaring in that speed and then a mud puddle, like the water moving. And they were gone. We never find ’em. Spent all afternoon hunting, every camp trying to find those kids. So how does this relate to regret? So you’re saying they got away with it. So then at, at that point I regretted. So I learned at that point, if I ever come upon somebody and I think they’re lying to, I’m gonna take something so then, so that way at least I have something. I’ll take their boat. Josh. People have rights. No, no. I’ll take out, even if you’re a game war, they all have rights. So can’t take our stuff can forward. A couple years later I observed this elderly couple fishing. Oh boy. Oh boy. They were fishing and I went down there and I watched them fish when I got down there. And they had seen me coming down the beach. And by the time I had left my truck, the time I got to them, they were no longer fishing. In fact, they were just sitting by the shores of Otter Creek Reservoir enjoying a view if you’ve ever been there.

01:47:41:13 –> 01:48:35:14
But there’s not much of a view there. They sunset to their back anyway. States rushed to their front a great sunset. Yeah. You’re not even facing it. Yeah. So we had a, we had a sensitive conversation about things I’d seen and things they, they claim they weren’t doing. So I was like, okay. And they’re like 80, right? If I remember. Oh yeah, they were. And I, I was like trying to, I’m gonna just trying to, I’m catch dinner though, right, Josh? And they’re, I mean, just trying to eat. Yeah. So I I I held onto their driver’s licenses thinking Yeah, they’re not like, ’cause the problem was I had to walk back to my truck. Like it was quite a ways back there. You were walking around the crew. It was a good, yeah, it was a good 500 yards. Which that’s a long ways for me to hike, to walk. So anyway, I walked back there and I’m sitting in my truck and I have both their driver’s licenses. I’m looking at ’em and I looked down the beach and I could barely see the top of their car where they were at from there. And I looked down and I’m sitting there typing on my computer and I looked down after I get two of the tickets written. I’m like, what the heck? I don’t see the car.

01:48:36:09 –> 01:49:27:04
So I jumped out and I ran down and there was a guy that was down the beach from me. And as soon as I got down towards him and he looked up at me, he says, they took off on you, man. I’m like, you’re kidding me. So I ran back up to my truck and there was this dirt road that goes out to the highway and I could see a car flying and dirt, dust, disgust. I mean, we’re talking 80-year-old people. Oh yeah. They all say they don’t know how to drive. And I’m like, well, and they all, you lose your driver’s license calling at that age maybe. So just go walking. And I locked my license. Did I get a new one? So I had, I had their driver’s license in my hand. I’m like, they freaking took off on me and I got their driver’s licenses, like, who does that? They went from this state. I’d got enough out of ’em to know where they were camping. So I knew that they were probably going back to their camp. And so it was, I was like, oh geez, what do I do right here? And I was just, got my truck and I started to chase him. I was hoping to get catch ’em and I wasn’t gonna catch ’em. They had pretty good headstart on me. So I called in to dispatch on the radio. Wow.

01:49:27:07 –> 01:50:24:18
And this is where the regret comes in. Five strips. Where are we going? No. Well, yeah, well that’s why I didn’t know what to do. So I called into dispatch and I was like, Hey, I need you to run these driver’s license for me. So they did. And they’re like, yeah, anyway, they give ’em to me. Well, the guy actually came back. He had had like aggravated assault on a peace officer or something in California, probably when he was, I don’t know how old. And that’s why I was like, when he was 63. Okay. Anyway, and they’re like, like, they’re like, okay, do you need any backup? You know, they’re reading all this 10 code. And I’m like, no, they’re actually, they took off on me. It was like, and they’re like, are you, I was 10 88 or whatever. It’s like the pursuit thing. The dispatch lady’s like, are you 10 88? And I’m like, yeah, kind of sitting here Yeah. Talking to you. Yeah, I am. Look at where to go. And all of a sudden, every law enforcement officer in the whole county was like, the radio just starts going off. Where are they at? I’m over here. I’m over here. They’re, they were ready for a chase. Yeah. Every highway patrolman, every deputy. And I was just like, it’s gonna be kind of fun. Oh well it’s this part of Utah. You’re looking for something to do. You need, you need.

01:50:24:22 –> 01:51:21:28
So they were, they were, they’re sagebrush and white line. Yeah. We had, yeah, we have volunteer police officers here. I wanna be one just, just to listen to the radio, maybe act, act out something. Helicopter pilot was ready to even fly. Really? And so they’re like, they’re, everybody’s coming that way. I’m coming down highway such and such. I’m coming down this highway. And I was just like, oh. And you know, they teach you this thing and you’re talking This is for fishing? Yes. This is a fishing incident. And you know what they, they teach you in like the police academy, what you do. Like this is now running fleeing from a law enforcement officer. It’s a felony. And so you do a felony stop, which is you stop the vehicle and you get ’em out at gunpoint. And so I’m like this. And they were, they were two polling at the time. Yes. And they were fishing without licenses. So anyway, pretty soon you’re wondering. Okay, so how did it end? They, well the good thing was at, at some point it was kind of funny because they were starting to read and they’re like, okay, go ahead and give the description. One of the highway patrolmen, he was really keen in on, I think he was ready to shoot somebody. So he was, he was keen in on that. You can’t say that Josh. Sorry.

01:51:22:05 –> 01:52:25:13
He was ready for action and he came and he calls on the radio, was like, I need the description. And so they give the description to the people and they’re like, and what’s the date of birth? And they’re like 19. She rounds it off and the guy goes, hold on, can you repeat that? She reads it again 20. And he goes, and the dispatcher says, yes, they’re 80. I’m like, in his reply, he’s like, okay. And you can literally hear the sirens and everything go, Hey, I’ll be outta my car at coffee shop. I’m gonna the, I’m going the red. You had no backup. Yeah. Basically, even though he had a big old long rap sheet, they, they decided, I think they got a little ways and probably remembered they forgot their driver’s license. I had ’em with him or whatever. They ended up like ducking into where the bathrooms and stuff were at the marina. Marina. And anyway, we tried to find ’em and then the park ranger called me. He found ’em over there confiscated their fish. Yeah. Fed your family. So the regret was not getting something from someone. But then you learn that even when you do it still doesn’t solve doesn’t, yeah. It still doesn’t do anything. And then you have to call out on the radio that you’re in a police procedure over, over octogenarian chasing occ face down in the dirt at gun point.

01:52:25:17 –> 01:53:41:18
And yeah, my evidence was they should have power bait all over the fingers and put it on their face. The power bait. That’s how you’ll know What’s that? Wow. Hey, I can’t compete with that story, so don’t Oh, some funny stuff. Well, geez, Archibald, do you have any regrets? Not killing that Turkey that chased you? Yeah. He deserved it. Besides picking very questionable campsites. Some of you have experienced. Yeah, just ’cause it involved me being in my underwear later. That’s it. Trying to survive. Well I, in the middle of the night shaking truck, kill it by, I was talking about the mice infested one out in Nevada. Oh, was that, yeah. It sounds like everyone you picks kind of weird stuff happens to me dude. Just why It’s crushing everybody that likes him. But the main thing that it makes you think about is regrets that you might have. It’s a good point. Like, like not hunting over the counter archery and 13 A on the strip when we could have done that. Right. Because things do change over time and we think in the moment you think that’s gonna be there forever. It’s gonna be there forever. I’ll, I’ll bet you there’s someone that just heard that right now and don’t believe that that just happened. That that used to happen. Yeah, we used to be able to do What do you mean you could do that? What do you mean?

01:53:41:18 –> 01:54:51:16
That was till 2000 what? 8, 9, 7. Somewhere right there. Seven. I know. In 27. Good. It’d be the same year. Don’t ask me Chief. Because there was other people that had over the counter Archer 10 that year. Yeah, that was oh seven. Who was seven? It was seven, eight somewhere right there. It ended not that long ago. 15 years we’re talking it ended. But wait, maybe we should go around talk about more though. That’s a good one. I mean, I agree. I was old enough to know better and I don’t wanna finish the other line, that song, but, because I don’t think I was too dumb to care, but, but I was old enough to know better that I should have been doing that. We just didn’t take it serious. Same thing late. I mean, back in the good days we had, I mean Bronson, you remember ’cause we’re old John, maybe one other guy. I dunno. There was, you know, we used to get over the counter basically General deer tags. We hunt November Muzz. Our general was a dedicated hunter tag when we were kids. Yeah. When you got a general, you bought it and you got an archery and if you didn’t kill, you got to go to the rifle. And then if you didn’t, you get to hunt the first Yeah. Five to 10 days in November like we do now. Say you in November on the, on the limited entry, general drawback.

01:54:51:16 –> 01:55:59:06
And I remember my dad smashing a book typical on that tack. Yeah. It was a, that booker. Yeah. It was a dedicated hunter tag that you bought at Monticello. Merck. I mean, for all intents and purposes you were, I mean you were allocated a deer like you were entitled to a deer. Yeah. For all. Everybody killed a deer. If you wanted a deer, you killed one. Yeah. Now you gotta draw a general draw. Dedicated. Dedicated is only two outta three year harvest. I mean, there’s so many changes. We could go in every other state. You gotta what’s happening Work your work, your guts off pay, pay out. It was only five or six years ago, you could get Idaho deer tags. I remember that year, remember when Tide drew a youth deer hunt in 54? You remember that year? And when a youth draws a deer tag, they, they can only buy the cheap, cheap version of a deer permit mentor. If, if the adult has a corresponding, I didn’t have one. That was like August he drew in the second draw, remember remember the second draw in August? Yeah. I went and bought a deer tag then just to have one to hunt across the highway so he could buy his for roughly 20 bucks. And now that system’s even frustrated because those tags are basically not available that late in the game. But, but how, how recent was that?

01:55:59:06 –> 01:57:17:29
That was when he was like, oh, I, three years ago, 12 or 13, four years, whatever. Four or five years ago. Yeah. I bought a general tag in August that was still left over. And it wasn’t a quota, it wasn’t a region or a unit, it was a statewide field. It seems like it was last year. Was it already been four to five years? I mean, well dude, he’s, he’s 18 years old now. He was whatever, 13. That’s crazy. Probably when that happened. Yeah. So five max, let’s just say that’s happened fast. Now we’re dealing with a cluster that December was with that website and hour glasses and things online. Thousand tens of thousands of people in line. And so that’s gone away, you know, bit by bit. We’re seeing Colorado archery OTC units being pulled from the statewide OTC every year. It seems like there’s a couple more unit, unit clusters being pulled from that. But there’s new opportunity opening up lions over the counter, you know, basically not even over the counter. You don’t even need a permit in Utah if, if this gets signed, huh? Yeah. Huh. But it’s really been over the counter. You’d have to a $58 tag, but it’s really, for me, that doesn’t really change a whole lot. If I wanna shoot a mountain lion, I could have yesterday just like I can next month. But anyway, trapping. Yeah, that’s a different story. There’s some crazy changes in Utah.

01:57:18:03 –> 01:58:27:07
We’re just that people are so frustrated about the deer that basically, you know, another thing that we’re dealing with is, is you know, lions and, and being able to shoot ’em at wheel as long as you have a hunting license, don’t need a tag year-round wherever. Whenever and any size or gender or anything. So kind of, kind of crazy, which is caused another bunch of controversy. But things are changing so fast. That’s what we’re talking about. Changes, regrets, you know, enjoy it while you got it kind of thing. Devin, what kind of regrets are you thinking of right now? I can think of a couple throughout my life hunting related. We’ll stick with that. When I, I remember when Wyoming, I remember I was in high school, maybe a sophomore, junior, some older guys were talking about Wyoming going to a draw. And I remember telling myself, well I need to do this. You know, and I missed it. I think I was two years behind on the points, on the points. I’m in high school. Yeah. I still spent the money on the deer in the antelope. Yeah. I did not buy the $50 elk. Yeah. Till a couple years down the road. But for all intents and purposes, food comes first. That’s true. And I had to pay for Arizona and things like that, so that’s good.

01:58:27:07 –> 01:59:33:16
But then I, I think I’d have a couple more deer on my wall if I just went like, I hunted Colorado in oh seven. That’s the only time I went on. It was like a second choice draw. And it was awesome. You know, the good old days. That was still a good era. It was, it was. And I, I only did it once probably in, and then I had 10, 10 year points after that. Yeah. I should’ve, I was guide then making money, try to pay for school, you know what I mean? But back then even Utah General was good. You had, there’s so many opportunities that Yeah. Hindsight though, if I would’ve, I wish I would’ve been there every year possible. Done one less deer hunt or whatever, but Got it. One less hunter, you know? Yeah. And went out out five days, seven day or five days, show up and hunt even. Even if I could go out for three days, that would’ve been worth it. That’s kinda what we do now. So that’s what you’re telling your younger self, like your older self telling your younger self and what you would tell Gen Z here or whoever. Yeah. Right. Is like, this is what you shouldn’t do. You shouldn’t just even get a tag in case you kill early and have time to sneak away. It’s wor it would’ve been well worth it.

01:59:33:16 –> 02:00:35:06
And the problem is, it’s just like we’re all talking about is you assume these opportunities are never going to end. Yeah. They’re gonna be the next year. It’ll be all the same. You’re gonna be young forever. You don’t even picture your body getting old. 20 years seems like might as well be 200. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, and it’s hard to think that what’s in front of you is so great, so awesome. It won’t change all that. You gotta think that it’s going to, it, it, it will just look at people, just people that grew up and only archery, hunted in Utah over baited. That’s all they ever did. What do they do when that stopped? Well, Josh, you’ve had guys reach out to you and ask you, what do I do? Yeah. For that purpose you mean? Yeah. I mean that, that’s all they ever did, wasn’t it? Wasn’t it you? I think it was you telling me. Yeah. We talked about, yeah. And basically they were like, what do I do? I’ve only hunted over bait. They’re trying to figure out how to hunt because for the first three or four years of their life, that’s what they were doing was baiting and trail cameraing and you know, doing that sort. They didn’t ever, they never tried to spot and stalk a boat or a buck with their bow. Well, didn’t that come up a couple of different times. Yeah.

02:00:35:06 –> 02:01:43:08
Where Yeah, I’ve trying to spot stock ’em, what do I do next? Yeah. Like what am I doing? Oh, yeah. And, and when it was there, I think about that’s kind of one of the regrets I have. There’s, there’s a deer that I, I never did kill that I’ll regret the rest of my life. And I, I look back and this is how stupid it was because that was a method and it could be such a good method. I was literally, instead of finding myself spotting and stocking, trying to glass, figuring out a a bucks routine, I was figuring out where to put apples to get in front of him. Yeah. Dead series. And it was like how much I wasted that time. Wow. Because there was already seven apple piles out there. Like I was walking past Apple piele and you’re trying to figure out, I’m like, does he want gala or the sweetest? Yeah. And like, it, it makes me so angry how it makes me, how expensive do I go? What is this? Bucks taste caramel apples. Did anybody ever try that? Do you caramel? No. Caramelize. It’d be amazing. Probably choke on the stick though. Then you’d be liable for dead beer. And I would’ve ate ’em all before they hit the ground there. Let’s be honest. But that just that, you know, I think a lot of other guys were in that same area trying to bait deer to them.

02:01:43:29 –> 02:02:49:20
And I think, and I was, I was trying to do this, I was doing a mix, you know, I was trying to beat them to the, to their apple pile essentially. You know, get an apple pile between theirs and where the deer was feeding from. If I would’ve just went and hunted the deer probably would’ve had a lot better chance of killing ’em. Yeah. Rather than doing something like that. That’s a good one. I don’t know. But to be fair, don’t beat yourself up too bad. Like in Bronson, you and I, we’ve hunted a bit together when we were younger and it’s just, you know, we hunt different now. Oh yeah. What if I could take today’s me and wisdom and put it in my youth body and the, and and the opportunities we had when we were a youth. I mean, geez, look out. Well and at that time too, that’s another big regret. At that time I felt like this was the new standard because the thing was, there were certain things that had kind of whether it was a five day hunt, but it was also like it El Nino stuff. We had a ton of deer. So you’re looking in the back at 15, 16, 17, we had a pile of deer that were coming up. So there’s deer everywhere. A lot of good bucks tags were relatively low. They were in the process of going up. So they weren’t high just yet.

02:02:49:21 –> 02:03:54:01
So there were, there was a significant amount of opportunity, especially on general season units that deer that should never, probably ever live on a general season unit. And I thought this was the new standard. I thought, go back, this is, this is all I ever need to do. Yes. I can cut my U2 every year for dedicated and I got more than I can ever do, can rewrite the record. I could sit there in glass across to the gon unit and I thought, I never even need to apply there because I’m right here on this side and I can hug deer right here that I would kill over there and day of the week here. So you didn’t even apply for limited entry. And I could take it that far. I was getting elk points or whatever, you know, but I was, I was looking over here and thinking, man, I can do this here every year. And, and I felt like that was gonna last and all of a sudden 2018 rolls around and deer start dying left and right and here we are now. I would give body parts to go back and hunt. Which body parts left one, left ones ears, noses, whatever certain digits. But Okay. I would, I would look back to just even see some of those deer that we were hunting right then and there. Yeah. At that time. And, and I thought it was gonna be the standard.

02:03:54:05 –> 02:04:50:05
Had I known what it is now, I would’ve hunted a lot harder. Also at the same time you have dedicated hunter and I always felt like some, the dedicated hunter is awesome, but you also feel like, oh, I’ve got the muzzle loader hunt. So I didn’t put it all into the archery hunt. Well, I got the early rifle hunt. I got the late rifle hunt, so I didn’t put it all into the muzzle order hunt, that kind of thing. I left a lot of stuff on the table, I guess is my regret there. I think too is like if I had a guy the other day tell me, well I want hunt south West Colorado because it’s closest to me and I can hit it more regular and I wanna hunt it pretty regular and I know it’s a little easier to draw and I don’t wanna drive through good country to get to good country further away. I have the same thing. I, I would leave Southern Utah on Good Years General because it was an easy tag to get. I didn’t put any value in it. Yeah. Jason and I are both in our, that boat we’ve had, we have a lifetime license and I, I’m guilty of that. A lot of years. You think it’s more appealing? It’s more appealing, more coveted tag.

02:04:50:05 –> 02:05:58:10
Just ’cause it’s in a neighboring state and it took two or three years where I get this one every year and it, and it wasn’t, we didn’t value it as much some years, a lot of years we didn’t even hunt. Yeah. Most years. Yeah. Just because we filled our schedule with Colorado or other stuff and then, you know, different periods of your life, especially when our kids were younger and all that and different, you know, educational slash you know, career, job, whatever time was maybe a little bit more limiting. And there, the general season was, was what was left over. And if there’s no days, all right. You didn’t hunt it. Yeah. Speaking of lifetime licenses, that’s one of my regrets. Not getting one of those. Did you have the conscious decision though? Like Yeah. Did you I make a decision was a kid. I could’ve done it, you know, happened when I was 19. I was, I was outta the country. I was on a mission. I remember getting a letter from my dad and he was already, he was already too late to a lifetime because it was a 10 day lag in the mail back then. There’s no email. There was no FaceTime. It was like, they’re gonna end doing these. Do you want me to do this? And I remember the date he said in there had already passed. And I’m like, uhoh, hope he did that. Yeah. Yes. Verbally.

02:05:58:10 –> 02:07:00:18
He just said that. Well, and they did. You know, him and my dad and That’s awesome. Aaron all did it and, and geez, at the time he just thought it was okay. Yeah. It was more the value of it was more the value of the, it included the hunting, license, fishing, birds, upland, all this. And you were like, Hey, is that the value of the deer? What am I gonna spend? You never, it wasn’t that it was gonna guarantee you a deer tag. It’s gu in your mind. You could, it was guaranteed already. And and in your mind, guaranteed deer tags were never going away. Yeah. You could, you couldn’t even see the future that they would go away. So now the value is you get a guaranteed deer tag. It’s not about the money. Yeah, yeah. It’s not about the money. Right. Back then it was like, is this a good value moneywise? Am I gonna live long enough to cash in, cash in the make sure this $500 was worth it. This turns into 2000 right now. It’s the deer tag. The fact that you get a deer tag, that’s the value. And you can’t even see that. You can’t even see that Wyatt, you’re quiet, you’re thinking about all the book heads you’ve let go or it was on the walls of clients that you should have been yours. What do you think of?

02:07:00:21 –> 02:08:08:20
Oh, I just had a lot of fun hunting and guiding, but that’s kind of where I learned how to hunt and guide or hunt, throw through the guiding world. So I mean, I, I can’t say I necessarily regret taking all those years and putting them towards clients’ skills. Yeah. Yeah. That’s the way I, I guided a lot in Nevada and it taught me, I wanted to guide somewhere where I could get tags after it was all over knowing, hoping that it, I wasn’t gonna just guide, guide forever, you know what I mean? Thinking that was a supplement to our income and I never was full-time. It was a supplement to, to the income. And that’s very similar to what Devin did too. Now he’s capitalizing up there on all his knowledge in Nevada. Oh yeah. Two. Two for two. Yeah. So any, I actually, a couple little canyons of killed with clients and myself, multiple, multiple bucks. Like 4, 5, 6 bucks. Wow. And we wa me and Wyatt were talking this morning about when we were kids and like I remember telling my dad like, we need to apply in this limited entry, you know, and, and just like, why would we do that? We have a place to go, you know, we can all go together. And luckily he did. I, you know, we, we did it or I did it and yeah. I’m, I’m probably two or three years behind what I should be.

02:08:09:15 –> 02:09:11:02
Wyatt gave us a good story this morning about why he was one point shy of what he should be. Yeah. We look at the data when we could have applied and how many points we have. And he’s down a year and I’m down like two or three. You mean like when you turn 12 or 14? 14 then 14. It was back then. Yeah. Bad grades. High school Dad did not apply me. You crap. Me one, one year. What He’ll pay for it today. What a good dad. Whoa. Probably the worst thing he could’ve done to a kid. That’s why von r that’s why he was such a good student in college. I mean, stuck with him all those years. All those years. Yeah. All those years. He was very focused in college, wasn’t he did those eight years. We worked so hard for the, trying to get that point back, that PhD, that point back. Yeah. About the PhD. Longevity is about eight years. Yeah. It didn’t work out for us. Dr. Bolts, are you? I didn’t know you were a PhD, Dr. Devon. Yeah. Here we are here we’re talking about regrets, but it’s deviating from the hunting world. It’s when you’re a little kid, like you don’t know. It’s like your return on investment when you’re talking about those, you have no idea what that return will be.

02:09:11:20 –> 02:10:17:08
And I mean, I remember being a little kid with my dad and we’d go up and it was in any bull unit and we’d go up there for fun during the bow hunt. We never saw a soul. We’re calling him bulls like 20 yards. Wow. You know, I don’t have a bow. My dad’s never shot a bow. But looking back, it’s like, man, instead of spending all my money on a rifle, yeah. I, I would’ve just got a bow. I, it would’ve been a whole different deal. I mean, it was awesome, you know, but, well, and there’s, we need another podcast that’s the opposite of regrets. ’cause we’ve had a good life. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Very, very true. We can talk about things we, we glad we did. Of course Matt. We should be another one. Mines one of my biggest ones. You mentioned yours earlier, was the Wyoming sheep. That’s, I, I regret that, but it’s just a timing thing. It’s not that I wasn’t aware. It was just that when you’re, when you’re in college and you start having kids brand, brand new marriage, start having kids, like you said, food and bills, you’re justifying every dime the exits the family budget. Yep. And, and didn’t have a clear concept of a 75 25 split and, and run some math. And to see, okay, in 20 years you’re gonna have a guaranteed rocky tag if you just start. Yeah.

02:10:17:13 –> 02:11:16:20
You know, wasn’t even thinking of that. Same thing Arizona, back then you’d used to have to do everything on paper. You had to send a check in. Used to be for the permit fees, you know. Yeah. Used credit card checks. I I, we both talked about doing that over the years and that’s basically fantastic. And, you know, credit card checks, they were like, when I look on ’em in the mail, they didn’t even look like they look fake. You know what I mean? Like, this is play money, you know, and it was like, and they worked like you would if you read it, write the check. Yeah. If you wrote it on it actually cash your credit card. But, but they didn’t let you put in the credit card in Arizona and some other states, Montana use credit card checks. Remember Montana has used to have to get a cashier’s check to put in for sheet Mr. Or goat or money owner. You couldn’t write a personal, I mean, so I, I’m a couple points behind in Arizona and it’s for that reason, it was the same exact era that you’re just, you’re just timing. And then within two, three years, I, I, I’m freeing up a little bit. And then you start applying and then five years later you’re like, oh, those two, three years that I think it started, they’re critical. Or a big difference. Big difference.

02:11:16:22 –> 02:12:14:04
And so guys that are wondering if I should start now. Yes, absolutely. Start now. I love you, love all these other peop there’s some other, you know, influencers out there, whatever, not necessarily social media just in general that are saying, you know, the draws aren’t really worth it and this, that and the other. What’s your option? What’s your option for let’s say 80, 90% of people out there that that can’t just go buy every single save tax, save money, save you can afford a $2,000 hunt. Well that $2,000 hunt in three to four years will be 4,000. The way things are going and the inflation, all the demand. And even if it’s available, you can’t just buy every want and what you doing if you say that and say save your money for 20 years. Okay, you’re, you’re, you know, 200 bucks a year in Arizona. Yeah. 10, 10 years, there’s two grand. Right? What’s that gonna do? Well you, so does that mean you don’t hunt for the next 10 years? ’cause you’re only saving that two grand to go on. What hunt could you, you couldn’t go on a guided cow hunt two in 10 years for two grand. You can’t probably right now. I don’t think so. So yeah. So that’s my, that’s, and I think that’s our point is that it is those same points.

02:12:14:08 –> 02:13:21:18
Utah, you can get a dedicated hunt, dedicated gen, call it a general deer, but dedicated point, general deer point, limited entry, deer point. And you can hunt dedicated or general while you’re waiting for some Yeah. Every two to five years. Even for non-residents, that’s a pretty, yeah. Pretty normal interval. And you’ve got other states that you have other stuff in a two to five year interval. So you’re doing, having to do something. Yeah. You, you have to do more with less. You, we’ve talked about that. You can’t just wait for limb entry tags to fill your schedule. You can’t. But there are some things we don’t even, well I, I did it last year, got a second choice tag in Colorado for deer and turned it back and got my money back ’cause they already gave me a point. So it didn’t matter. But at least it gave me a guaranteed opportunity to hunt deer through the draw system. Which everybody, there’s people out there saying, don’t apply. Don’t apply anymore. It doesn’t make any sense. You know, it’s just not reality and you never know. We’re talking about changes and, and sometimes I feel like we talk about changes are all bad, but you never know when a state could go from a preference to a bonus or something. Let’s, and you might be glad that’s what you draw tag with six points that now you never would’ve had the chance to before.

02:13:21:25 –> 02:14:24:05
So having six points may be the best thing decision you ever made. And yeah. You don’t know what changes are coming gives in the future. Options just gives you options. Yeah. Open doors everywhere. That’s right. Weird stuff. We’ve val drawn weird stuff, used points on ’em that I thought I’d never, I thought I’d I’ve used points I thought I’d never even use. Yeah, but you haven’t. I initially thought this is a total waste and it wasn’t your elk a couple years in Colorado. There’s an example. Wyoming antelope whatever, like whoever. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, whoever thought antelope meat was as good as it is feed my family every three days with that stuff. So Wyatt got off without talking about real regrets. ’cause he, what do you mean deflected to Deon or something? Do you have any other I brought up the one right there. Bad grades early in, early on in my, we were talking about it this morning. One point I did not know, but that’s a, a regret of not getting the grade. Okay. Anything else you, you want want me to go back to Colorado? No, I see he would deflect to me. I know you deflected to Devin. I mean, I’m cold. He he owned it. He got bad grades. So he got punished one year. He was on the timeout bench and that any tags, that point’s huge, right? It is.

02:14:24:07 –> 02:15:36:01
Any tags you didn’t do justice you wish you could take back or do again? Any do-overs? That’s a whole different conversation. It Oh yeah. You what? Well, hold on, let’s let that part of it is what John said though. The, the other day about after his hunt in New Mexico, if he knew I’m gonna sit water now and kill a bull, they’re, they’re coming in and not think, oh, the ruts gonna build in a week or 10 days and it’s gonna be awesome the last five days. And that didn’t happen. A lot of it, you don’t know until the hunt plays out. My Nevada elk hunt a year or two ago I’ve had Wyoming elk hunts. You know that way that you also gotta learn a unit by hunting it the first time. And if you could then rewind and go hunt it again, which we talked about, we’ve all’s you can’t count that as a regret. It’s just you wish you gain the experience some other way. But you have to go through the trenches. You gotta, you get to learn a unit by hunting it once. We’ve done that many times. Yeah. Try new units and wish you could take it back and you can’t get back very soon is problem. Yeah. Why Wyatt’s the thinking I I have one that maybe that’s why it’s like, what is there to say? Wyatt has no other regrets. No, I I I have regrets. Yes.

02:15:36:05 –> 02:16:47:28
There is 1 2 40 buck that I probably should have used my points in hundred instead of killing with the governor’s tag. Oh, okay. There is that one deer. But, but you have already a, a net non-typical buck in the book, so you don’t need to Yeah, but two would’ve two would’ve been awesome, John. But yeah, I, I have one that maybe somebody can learn something from ’em, especially like younger hunters. But I had a man, a buddy had a unit 63 tag in Colorado and it was a nine day season. We hunted, I remember this seven days. This is where you took the, is this where you took the video clip of the private land trespassers when we shot? Oh, this wasn’t the first time you went there? No, it was the second a picture to me and Jason were like, I passed this buck. And we’re like, what are you thinking? Remember that one 90 buck? I remember 1 94 point. Probably not that bigger. Okay. This was But you should regret that buck. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, continue. Like if that buck lived in 66 last year, John, let us remind you of all your regrets you should have. That should be the picture. What That work time. Dig that picture up. That picture should be the picture of this podcast, that book. It’s true. It’s a bad old buck. Yeah. Anyway, John, you remember that. I totally remember this.

02:16:48:01 –> 02:18:11:00
I let this buck door it his opening day and being the armchair warriors and judges that we are. It was that era Devon’s talking about though it was maybe 2005 and nine. It was. And they were, they were regular. It was incredible. It was a regular occurrence. Yeah. Anyway, the second time though, so the second time it was rough. It was a rough, rough hunt besides on private where we filmed numerous people, copious amounts of bucks from the public side. From the public side. Let’s beyond. Yes. Yeah. I mean, somebody’s gonna say that you’re in trespassing. Yeah, no, just a deer knew where the private was and they just stayed there. So anyway, over those, oh, first five days we didn’t see a four point. We saw a couple of two points. I mean it was rough. Rough. And then just by chance we, anyway, my buddy killed a mid one nineties buck and awesome dear. And after he killed it, he was ready to go. You know? ’cause it was such a brutal hunt. And I left, we left two days early third season. Best two days of the last days. I, I, I regret not sticking it out even though it was bad. Brutal. You just never know. And then one deer happened, but you just rationalized that that won’t happen again. I’m right. I’m burned out. Let’s go. We, we struck gold one time. Two’s not gonna happen.

02:18:11:04 –> 02:19:26:01
And so, and and yeah, when, when one guy’s ready to go and you’re kinda like, oh, okay, let’s pack it up. And so we left two days early. So one thing about hunting the worst hunt of your lifetime could make a drastic turn in a matter of seconds. Yeah. It’s one, one giant away from being the best hunt of your life. And sometimes the mental part of, of hunting when it’s tough is harder than the physical part. You know, sticking it out i’s almost all cases. It feels like that. Yeah. Some of those outcomes. I’ve got Nevada arch, you were there, you were in Arizona last year. Great hunt, but man, you’re, you’re a split second from hunting maybe two days and killing a giant bull versus, or how about like versus hunting 12 days, one step or Yeah. Yeah. Another one step or another One step or one second. Especially with a bow or in my case a right turn, you know, around the road. What’s the hell? What’s that story? No, I’m just saying you never know what’s around the next corner when you’re driving roads. Oh, that’s true. But what story are we talking about? Is there a specific, no specific story. What brought it up? Just saying that you guys are talking one step at a time. Me, I’m usually in the truck. Oh, slow rolling the pines. Why It’s not hiking the right turn. Slow rolling the pines.

02:19:26:04 –> 02:20:26:28
If you have the crews on 10 miles an hour versus seven, you’re gonna miss stuff is what you’re saying. Yeah. You easily could. Yeah. Or how about my regret being out in the desert when really I should have been with you slow rowing the pines or worked out for us last year. Yeah. Well don’t admit any of all those are tough hunts by why, why cruise control doesn’t go low enough for his trucks. That’s one thing it ticks me off. I was in the back of his truck the other day sitting down. I noticed there was like this brick with duct tape and a big bungee cord on him. Like, what, what’s this brick for? And he’s like, that’s a seven mile an hour brick. That’s a 10 mile an hour brick. Different weight terrain. Is that true? It’s not. He’s ready to buy some bricks. James is like, that’s a heck of a nice guy. He’s got these calibrated. Yeah. Does does bother me. Does I think cruise control should go a little bit lower? I’ve tried it a lot of times. Like there’s sometimes you just four miles an hour. Yeah. It’s got a little heavier brick, a little lighter brick depending on the mile. An hour wants just that allows you to do is just stand out on your running board and just hold the all you holds the steering wheel and you can get a little higher vision. Right.

02:20:27:01 –> 02:21:30:16
Go like those old farm. Why don’t we have high, why don’t we have high racks in the us? Seriously, I’ve been wondering like you can, oh, I’ve seen you can drive roads. Have you? Oh yeah. Where you can’t shoot off ’em though. Drive the shooting for the oak brush. But units, ponds or kibab or whatever. Wouldn’t a hi rack be kind of cool just for just for Yeah. Then you’re gonna have to climb down. You’re gonna get decapitated by limbs most of the time on those trees. But, but I mean, I’ve seen plenty of Mexico. You got blue stuff. I’ve seen plenty of couches in the beds of trucks. Oh yeah. That’s a Utah we call guys with arrows knocked off. And I’m not a fan of that. The, I’m not a, I’m not a fan of that. I saw one last year right here on top of Cedar Mountain. Yeah, yeah. Beaver Mountain is, yes. Growing up on the, we called those the Texas tree stands and I’m sorry for Texans, but that’s, we were in that, we were close to Texas and we had a lot of guys, there were some bring their tactics up. You can high rack back in the day. Back in the day there was some portable batteries and spotlights and ground blinds, you know, out in some of the western country. I dunno, I wouldn’t know about that. Oh, come on. No, I don’t.

02:21:30:16 –> 02:22:49:02
I don’t know what I don’t either. Personally I don’t. But all you some crazy tactics back in the day. Not all Texans hunt from couches. I just wanna say that just before sometimes get lit up. Sometimes they’re a hard chair. Big tall bar stool. Exactly. Bar stools are common. Welded to the bed of your truck so it can’t tip over well. Alright, well hey what else? Gen Z. Do you have any, what’s regrets? Regret in the hunting world? We gotta anything. Oh man. We know you’re younger, but just in the what, 10 years or so that you’ve been able to hunt? Probably 10 years or so that you’ve been alive. No. Yeah. No. Listen to all you guys talk. I I don’t know that I’m old enough to have realized the mistakes I made yet. Oh, that’s a good perspective. I’m sure I’ve made plenty, but just hasn’t quite hit yet. One thing you’re just chalking it everything up to bad luck. Yeah, exactly. No one thing, one thing that comes to mind is I think I relied a little bit too much on, you know, dad’s gear when I was in high school. I should have accumulated more. ’cause now I’m out on my own trying to do my own hunts and you know, dad’s gear isn’t always there anymore. Yeah. Dad wants dad’s gear. Dad wants dad’s gear. Dad sold a lot of dad’s gear so he doesn’t have as much extra.

02:22:49:08 –> 02:23:50:05
Should have bought dad’s second hand gear for that. Yeah. See. And so just accumulating a little bit as I went along instead of now all of a sudden I wanna hunt a little bit more seriously trying to buy gun bow, binocular spotting scope pack. We try and help you every day. Logan. Hey I appreciate that. We always try and help you buy new stuff. Biden gives you kids money for doing nothing. I know. Well, he doesn’t anymore. I mean, if you act like they’re going to college, you’re getting money. I think we’re, I think we’re all outta money. ’cause I haven’t seen any of that yet. Yeah. I don’t know. That’s the only regret that comes to mind. I, I haven’t, I mean I haven’t put in much for Nevada yet. I probably should start doing that sooner rather than later I think. But Well you’re gonna live right here. Yeah. Talk about I think that’s important about that off the air. Yeah. We’ll we do this every day with people. We develop short-term long term application strategies. So we is that what we do? What we do. We’ll be able to help you. That’s what we do. Gen Z we got We got you. Yeah. Remember when he came out the other day with how good of a child I guess he was. He must’ve got a lot better grades.

02:23:50:05 –> 02:24:53:24
And Wyatt, the the points he has accumulated for a certain state and species there, does he? It’s just like Arizona elk. It’s pretty legit. Oh really? Your father must love you a little. I I was say not to talk about my dad too much on a podcast, but he did make me promise that if this ever came up, I had to shout him out because what he was very good at making sure I got points when I was a younger kid and he didn’t have the same rules that Wyatt’s dad did. I, I had some bad grades sometime and I still went in the hat. So he was just grateful you were still going to school bads in our era were mean most of part participation points. Least points only. Or something. If I was one minute late from a date, I had a problem. It took me right outta the drive. You could have done points only maybe, maybe have a sit down. Well it might be why you’re such years good guy right now. Because there’s a lot of guys downtown think you’re a good guy. Well there is and you’re not. You’re not. That’s some in 20 years I’ve never heard that story till today. So you’re not that bitter about it. Well maybe it’s just so bitter that I hold it close to my heart. Yeah. Had had a moment this morning. Got a little emotional, but wow.

02:24:54:04 –> 02:26:02:14
I figured it’s one more po. Okay. Hypothetically, if you had one more point this year, why, what are you doing with that? Because this is, we can’t talk with you about real life with, with what your current points are, but hypothetically with one more point, would you hunt dear than Utah this year? No, I’ll never make it to the max point holder in the state if I use those points. So that’s his end goal. He doesn’t care about hunting. He just wants to be the last guy on the top of the mountain. Okay, well you just want to be that one guy. Hey I, I’ve tried, I’ve tried every angle to get what to divulge what he would do. So even hypothetical scenarios don’t work. But he’s not taking the bait. No, he’s not. He’s so diplomatic. He’d be, he’ll be good politician, he’ll be guy and then they’ll go to a lottery system. Baiting’s off limits. Even with Wyatt go point squared on me. Can’t even, can’t even bait him into No. The subject. He’s too good. He’s too coy. He is not gonna out. Outsmart smart. Alright, well, well Logan, is there any advice you would give to kids even younger than you? Even younger than me? Steal your dad’s gear. Steal your dad’s gear, put aside some money and buy some stuff of your own. That’s, it’s hard. That’s getting a job. A good paying job. It’s hard. It is tough.

02:26:03:04 –> 02:27:09:16
I don’t know, like pulling weeds nowadays they won’t even do it John. It’s like 15 bucks an hour. I mean really? They won’t even do it. Yeah. Yeah. And they still go, go, go offer somebody $15 an hour to do an yard. Yeah. They won’t it. Yeah. I mean at one time I was managing, you know, the HOA complex and all the, the maintenance and the yards and all that stuff and yeah. We couldn’t get kids to, to even pull weeds for 15 bucks an hour. So. Yeah. Yeah. And they’re still a part of my brain when I hear that. They’re like, I’ll do it. You know? Oh yeah. Yeah. Because oh yeah, I had to do it. We worked so many, we worked so many jobs. I had fricking hour day before I had a baseball game. Like, we gotta get this done before your game. And I’m like, oh, I don’t wanna miss my baseball game. That’s alright. Let’s date ourselves. Tima. You know, there were hard ultimatums. Oh yeah. Our dads were made. Get it done. Or you don’t, there was no 9 1 1 in our dad. I didn’t even look at ’em as me. Dispatch number to normal was get paid to do that. That would’ve been something. I remember being so stoked to get on my huffy and ride into town. I talked to my huffy and ride into town. ’cause we lived, felt like it was 10 miles out town.

02:27:09:16 –> 02:28:07:25
You might to tell people what a huffy is. That’s a bicycle had front and back pegs so I could take my friends if I needed two tricks. Yeah, I could do a couple tricks. But I, it felt like 10 miles riding into town. It was probably like six blocks from where we lived. But to ride into town, I, I got, I got very lucky and was working for a taxidermist is my first job. I thought I was so high on the hog making $4 an hour. Oh yeah. Scraping, stinky flash. I of things a I had a paper route with the, the baskets in the back and I wore it over my shoulders. Front back loaded with newspapers and newspapers in the front. ’cause I had lots of clients and I was proud of it. And I was riding, I don’t know what brand it was. Probably don’t realize that. Did it have Gazette? Moab? Moab? What was it, paper called? I don’t remember. Whoa. Paid the bills though. Paperboy. I, I had rubber band. I could the grand county up. I was good with a rubber band. I mean, I was good with the rubber band. You shoot birds with rubber bands off your bike moving whatever.

02:28:09:05 –> 02:29:21:22
I think I started around $4 too, Josh, but I was, I don’t even remember busting tires old they were, I worked at a retread plant and so used tires would come in and I’d unload ’em from, you know, a semi-truck also. Get you in shape probably if you’re a dating agent, it probably bulk you up a little bit. You’re like stuff, I mean it was like child labor. I think I was 11. Speaking of, speaking of child labor, I, I like, I developed business making suckers and sold ’em in school. And I put my sisters to work there. You hourly wage, is that ’cause they had better handwriting than you on the label? No, no. It was pineapple flavor. I didn’t wanna be over the hot stove. Go to, we need suckers for tomorrow. It was good for everybody. Remember that era of our child? Everybody’s making those homemade suckers. Yeah. Those little cookie. Like what do they put the stick in? Well, well were cookie, cookie cutter stick, pour, you know, boiling temperature. I mean all that taught you that in home ec. Yeah. I never learned anything about making suckers in my life. You could burn ’em easy. How about those friends that had their homemade pop machines? Did you guys have friends that had those that had the things that carbonate the water and then you I just You’d go to their house? Yeah. Well our parents didn’t buy pop.

02:29:21:23 –> 02:30:34:17
Pop was a luxury. I mean, we had it, but not like McDonald’s burger. A dollar was a luxury. What I mean? But I had a couple friends that had their homemade pop machine. It would carbonate the water and you put the, the flavoring in there. It was like so awesome. It was like lemon lime pop. That’s a Sprite. So you made it in their house anyway, right after you got done playing Atari. I remember Atari. I liked Atari. All right. What a good, Hey, that dates us pretty good. So, all right. Don’t regret anything that that’s, that’s how you should live your hunting life or in regular life. You can’t, you can’t buy time. You can buy your points and it’s hard to do it at times, but, but then when you look back, I wish I could buy the points for those years. I didn’t. And you just can’t buy that back. But I think for high school kids now, if they stopped playing or you know, looking at social media for two hours a day or one hour a day, they’d have a little extra money. I mean, at 15 bucks an hour, sure you could buy their own. They don’t need it. Stuff just don’t need it nowadays, I guess make sure, make sure your parents or whoever’s applying you if you’re a high school aged kid, and make sure you’re at least maximizing in your own state what you’re applying for.

02:30:34:17 –> 02:31:33:06
Because I will go back and look at my draw history and I’m like, just like Devin, like we put in for antelope one year and then deer the next year and then I’d wait six years and have a gap. You know, it was like, what? What are we thinking? You know? You just didn’t know. So make sure you’re maximizing your own state, starting your own state and maximize all your opportunities there so you can hunt. And then if you can’t, because I remember what it’s like to be a kid and you’re trying to start a family or going to college or something like that with Logan. Even if pick one state that that is close to you that you can drive to and that has a reasonable chance that at some point you’re gonna be able to use those points or something. Even if it’s one just yeah. Start, like I said, maximize your own state and then maximize the next closest state to you. That makes sense. And start there. So don’t, ’cause I do it, it is overwhelming. Listen. Cant start eight of them at one or 10 of them. Yeah. One year. Don’t do all that, but just, you usually can’t starts. But I remember getting, getting Oregon regulations at my dorm in college. Like Oregon. Yeah. Like, hey, I just had a thirst for it. I’m luckily I only had deal with that for three years.

02:31:35:00 –> 02:32:41:23
Gave me a sheep tag the third year and I said I’m out. I’ve had a handful of buddies just in the last little bit talk to me about what they just start applying for, for their once in a lifetime species kids. I went to school with that. Just do deer, elk for 20 years, you mean? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And you’ve really had a goat tag, right? In Utah? Yeah. Because you’ve started a, started a plan back then. That reminds me of another regret. Let’s have it real quick. Oh, I think I know what it’s, let’s just say every person in the Archibald clan, all my brothers, my dad, guess what we chose is our once in lifetime swamp donkeys. Swamp donkeys. All of us. Hey, I like it. He wants one. Oh yeah. I I mean you’d think we’d mix it up like, hey, why don’t you do goat and I’ll do sheep and no, we did moose. And you have what in your house? I have four brothers. I just saw a picture of it last night. In your basement on your I three brothers Instagram. This 65 6, what is it? 65 Alaska Yukon. It’s bigger. Any moose. You post something on Instagram. I actually did. I missed it. You got a new addition to the family. You wanna tell everybody about what you brought home? The family. Just a velvet buck from last year. Archery.

02:32:41:28 –> 02:33:42:11
I always put him on the wall with the others. I always would word that to my wife. Hey, I got a new addition to the family and bring it home. I killed all whatcha talking about. I just wait until I have work. She thought it was gonna be a dog or something. Just a finished head dead animal. Spent this forever. You don’t have to feed it or take care of it. There’s four bucks in that room that have came from a like maybe a quarter mile circle four. So I put ’em all together there. Four of them. Jesus’s velt. Yeah. I haven’t seen the one there’s of, I didn’t show the other ones antler, but no, it’s a velvet book. Oh, okay. Anyway, I’m just, you’ve got a giant moose. Yeah. Your perspective changes. You started on moose at some point. You kind of lived in central, the northern Utah and near moose and mountain goats. Well, and when I’m kind of, but when I’m 13 years old, when I think of a moose, that’s what I envision. And you Well, yeah. Yeah. In Utah, 65 inches. Yeah, that’s what I envisioned. And you know, lucky to break 40. Yeah. You’re not gonna see one like that, Utah. No. It’s just not gonna happen. But yeah. But you’re right. It’s those decisions when you’re young and that you’re and i’s a big deal. Lucky I grew up in some Utah.

02:33:42:11 –> 02:34:45:19
You don’t know it till it’s, and and and Jason choices. Jason and Moab. Me and Monticello. We had desert sheep by us. That’s what we had down there. Yeah. And it’s what your dad took you to see. And luckily I got started on that. Yeah. Another one of, so we both killed one another. Another one of mine might be applying for mountain goats, though. It killed a nice goat. But that’s one I could write a check for right now. Yeah. As opposed to you can buy a goat. She a goat. It’s hard to buy a, a sheep of some sort. That’s true. Make good choices. And if you don’t, if you can’t, if you’re not capable of making good choices, call us and we’ll help you make good choices. Do everything. And I think like what Josh, you were saying, like re like look at your priorities applying for points. If it really means if hunting means something to you, you know, make that a priority and go with without something else in your life as a kid or a newlywed. That’s right. I, we’ve, we’ve had to do that. I, you know, I remember my first couple sheep hunts I went on. I mean, I, I needed new trucks. I drew a, drove a Ford Ranger for 87 Ford Ranger. I remember the truck for way too long. For way too long. But I, I remember you hunted out oh 1 14, 1 15. That was like 2005.

02:34:45:24 –> 02:35:52:28
Yeah. Yeah. That wasn’t that long ago. But, but bet on, as you’re, as you’re thinking about these things, bet on yourself that you’re gonna work your guts out as you’re 20, 25, 30, 35 and progress in life. You’re gonna, you bet on yourself that you’re gonna gonna achieve in whatever occupation and field you’re gonna do. And, and that money usually gets easier to come by you. The near future income will increase and it will change. It’s hard to think that it, well when you’re in the, you know, paycheck to paycheck period because we’ve all have to live through it. But, but add one at a time. Add the ones that make sense that are close to you, that make sense. And add, add as fast as you can without jeopardizing obviously family and those things. ’cause we’ve just talked about it. We, I had, I had sheep tags. Yeah, yeah. Deer tag in Arizona. Sheep tag in Wyoming. Things that I could have had if I would’ve been able to do it. You just can always, but when you can, don’t wait and, and make the plans. At least two points only. And don’t make your kids, if they get bad grades, buy ’em a point on the side. But don’t tell ’em, tell ’em you set ’em out, but don’t at least get a point. Good advice. Yeah. I was least amount of regrets as humanly possible. Yeah.

02:35:52:28 –> 02:36:17:12
I get participation points like Logan got, ’cause kids get participation points these days. Even if they we’re kids. Go to school right now. Still get a point back in our day, it was, are you going to school? Where are you respectful? And did you get straight A’s? And where did that a come from? It was a tough, tough era, I’m not gonna lie. All right guys, are we good? Yep. Good. All right.