In this episode, after giving Logan plenty of grief about modern dating, the crew finishes off the last few questions that were asked to us over the last few weeks. We had a lot of fun answering all of your questions and talking with you on Instagram, as we move into hunting season we will be doing a lot more status updates from the field and working in the office less. We wish all of you luck for the upcoming season! This last few questions had a lot of depth and things for us to discuss, what would be our ideal scenarios with technology in hunting and how Mule Deer tend to grow depending on their size.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:01:05 –> 00:01:21:07
Anything to do with Western big Games. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Adam Bronson, Devin Archibald. Josh Polly. John Peterson. How y’all doing today? Doing good, Logan. Good over. Forget you. I was wondering if you were gonna, how the heck are you doing, boss? I’m doing real good. Tell us about the dating life in southern Utah. Really? Why not? Why not? Dude? Are there any hot broads here in Southern Utah today? But the dating life goes on pause from like August to December. But you gotta, it’s hunting season. You just can’t get married from August to September. Oh, okay. Because then, then your wedding anniversary, I don’t think, nothing’s on pause for, just put ’em through the seasons, bud. That’s right. Make sure they can go through the season two or three. That’s Devin did that. Oh yeah. Tested it. Good. Then he got married right before season, the next season. Yeah. And then you find yourself 20 years later, they don’t even care if you make it for Thanksgiving anymore. Logan, they’d rather not have you. There’s me and my wife had a verbal contract. Really? Yeah. We agreed to 90 days. 90 days of hunting she could handle hunting, fishing, and gathering. I blew through that the first year. Wait, it caused, wait, timeout. The first three months. 90 per year. 90. 90 per year. Oh, okay. Shed hunting and anything counts. Hunting.

00:01:21:14 –> 00:02:27:10
Well, I don’t know what count. Who count sleeves. Does she count or you count? Well, I mean, does she still count? I’m, I would never. She counts. Does she still count? No. Well, you know, don’t. I’ve seen, what are they gonna, my office? Do they have a clicker or do they just say, ah, she counted. She counted for a little while. Yeah, but not anymore. It was not, I say not 27 years later. I don’t think she does. You’re almost up to 27 years. Here. Here. But I don’t really want to answer it. Here’s the answer. I know. She knows my office. She, my office is right next to her. She has a drawer. I’m like, oh, is Jason coming in today? She’s like, no. Calls out this little silver thing. Ka. I’ll see it go. Puts it back in the drawer and slides the shut kind. So I’ll try and keep an eye on that to let you where you’re at. She’s awesome. She’s awesome. We’ve had some healthy discussions. Disneyland or, yeah. Somewhere. Yeah. 90 days. 90 days. Week. Sold verbal contracts. Do hold up court. That’s good to get upfront. Court law. Okay. If you wanna lose 75% of your assets after you get married, violate that verbal contract. Well, we’ll just work on getting a higher number because here in Utah you’re gonna get 75%. Pause. All right. Well, okay. You never did answer that question.

00:02:27:24 –> 00:03:39:18
I know I didn’t, but is it going, I was trying to weasel my way out here. Is it going or is it Yeah, it’s good. Idling dating. Life’s good. Yeah. Idling or going right now? It’s, it’s going, it’s going good. Whoa. Have you had a few bites? Are you trolling? That sounded more like it’s going good. Does not, that is not, are you down deep for the lake trout or where are we at? I don’t even know what that means. I dunno what it means either. No, just don’t, don’t hit the car. Well, I mean, whatever. Don’t hit car. Just stay at life. I just dunno. Are we, are we, are we up at the kids bond and just getting the, getting the easy ones? Or what are we doing? I don’t think I can, are we going for the gold or what are we doing? I don’t know what any of these metaphors mean. Blue gill. Just the easy ones that’ll buy the bear hook. We go for first Gill severe river car. Logan’s in trouble when a girl goes on a date and asks her if she’s a blue girl. Are you a blue girl? Just avoid the catfish brother. Don’t be catfished. Don’t be catfished. Have you ever been catfished? Yeah. Really? What does the urban dictionary say? Catfishing is so, well, there’s like different kinds. Like you could be catfished.

00:03:39:18 –> 00:04:42:22
You could think a girl is or looks one way and then she’s not okay. Or else That’s what I always thought. Or it could be a talk to a man fictious person. Yeah. That’s not catfish. The whole what? You could be talking to a man. The whole man EO thing. One time, one time this, I was on dating apps and I matched with this girl and she was really pretty. And we were talking and we had orchestrated to hang out and, and it was a dude. I pull up to the apartment and one of my best buddies from Minville comes outta the door and gets in my truck. He says, I’m Samantha. I’m ready to go. He had created a fake profile and was talking to me to trap you? Yeah. And just Did he know it was used? Did he know it was you? He was trolling you. He was prank. He did it just to prank me. ’cause he knew that I, I don’t know. He might have said that. He’s just pranking you. But he might be a weird he the waters. He might be a weird dude. He’s my roommate now, so I hope that he wasn’t lived together. Moved in. It was so fun. It was a perfect match. It was a great day. It was a perfect match bowl that dating a burger got what it was doing that didn’t have the intended effect. I have.

00:04:43:05 –> 00:06:05:07
They, they, they helped participate in Secret night bowling. We’ve lived together for two years. Logan, I meant that. I had forgiven him for catfishing. Got me a sturgeon. If, if, if your potential girl says, I love 200 inch deer, you’re talking to a dude. If they say, Hey, my future husband’s gonna be able to hunt 180 days a year without any problem. That’s not, that’s not not real. Okay. Don’t take the ba, that’s sturgeon. I’m speechless. Jason, next time you ask this question, you better be prepared for the truth. Okay. There’s some wild stuff. That’s what I like about the Marshalls. They can’t lie. They can’t lie. It’s going pretty good. Yeah. Really. Thanks for asking. Matched up with the dude and they live together. Cat, now they’re catfish. They’re catfishing Pair fishing for probably Catfishing chicks. Who knows who lives with the dude? The Catfish. I mean, wow. Play, play some music or something. This is a made for DB movie. Yeah. Hallmark. Geez. Hallmark should be calling. I’m gonna give you five bucks. I should pay for this entertainment. Yeah. This is a, gee. Take tips. This is, oh my gosh. Wow. Well, well moving right along. Let’s move into part three. Q and A. Moving right along. I like it. You wanna thank our sponsors for kicking off air? Thank you to our sponsors. Thanks to Under Armour. They sponsor everything we do. We appreciate ’em.

00:06:05:09 –> 00:07:24:03
We also appreciate all of our sponsors that support us here at Epic Outdoors. We have ’em on the podcast here and there with dedicated podcasts with them and talk about all the things they’re doing. We’re gonna have a few of those coming up here shortly. Namely a few gum companies, a couple of gun companies, as well as phone scope. Looking forward to having them, talking to them, seeing what all they’ve got going as we get started here in the hunting season. It is August. Don’t forget are gonna die And farmers only or whatever. Logan. What? Logan, tell me what the top dating app is. I just, I, the last one I was using was Mutual. I just deleted it. Did you, you got catfished one too many times. Yeah, I just got sick of it. Too many carp. So what’s the next one? Farmers House? Lose the farmers or No, no. People I now, nowadays What do, what do nowadays the kids use Tinder, Bumble and Mutual, I would say in Utah are the most popular. It’s kind of like forums, you know, the forums, whoever came out the first and was really followed, they just, they have a following. Cannot, cannot break nineties or something. Here’s the test. Did your roommate make you delete the app? Whoa. No, but he strongly suggested it and threatened to move out. He asked me why he needed an app on my phone anymore. It’s an open relationship.

00:07:28:22 –> 00:09:00:03
I love it. Should we get onto some questions? Let’s get onto some, yeah. Get some down the road. We talked about my wife, we talked about my wife and I’m just gonna, she’s calling. Be sure. Can we talk to her? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We haven’t talked to her in a while. You’re on your own. Hey. Hey. You’re, you’re on the Epic Outdoors podcast, so be careful what you say. Hi Jenna. I’ll call you later. No, I got a question for you. What do verbal contracts, when you first get married, when you get married and you have a verbal contract, do they hold up in the court of law 27 years later? If they do, you’re in trouble. And what would I be in trouble for? A lot of things that we verbally contracted that you didn’t hold up for. What? What do you remember that we contracted about that you wouldn’t hunt more than 90 days. Hey, have a winner. I don’t think you’ve kept any of those. Hey babe, we’re gonna talk a little bit later. Alright, let’s, alright. Appreciate you talk soon. Alright, bye. She’s driving home. You go get your assets right now. You guys help me hide a few. Can I can hold on to some of your cash. Oh, no, no, no. Good grief. That was mean. I don’t even know if that’s fair. The Truther boss, she’s not forgotten. You answered. Alright, let’s move on.

00:09:00:19 –> 00:10:14:09
What do we got going on here? Who’s the reader guy? Question reader guy Cameron Quarterly says, do big bucks move often following best feed? Or do big bucks stay in a local area with average feed? I think it depends on a lot of things. You know, depends on the predation in the area. Do they, or the pressure of hunters, like they’ll, they’ll go on average feed if it, if they feel or in a safer environment. Yeah, I agree. I think, I think where they live is where they wanna live. Unless something really, really disturbs that. Yeah. Predators too much hunting pressure or people, or the other thing is then the biological gout, you get too late into the year they’re gonna move because of feed you. You know, but that’s, that’s kind of migratory related. I’m we’re talking, let’s say from June to September, they’re gonna, they’re gonna stay in their core. That’s my, that’s my 2 cents. Whether the’s good, bad, we’ll say July. I’m not gonna say June. July. July to September. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s totally deer dependent. I’ve found a deer that have lived right next to each other within a mile of each other. And one will migrate 70 miles and the other one stays and lose that mile is entire life. Doesn’t matter what it looks like to feed the pressure, whatever. Yeah. It’s, he lives in that one mile square. Whole life knows it lives it, that’s his home.

00:10:14:19 –> 00:11:21:22
And he’s eating healthy enough and makes it to eight years old. Like you can’t, yeah. You can’t be killed. Like they just depends on the deer. So it just totally depends if they feel safe, obviously. And you got, you know, good feed. What I mean, if all you had to do is eat, drink, and be merry, you know what I mean? You’re gonna go where the feed’s good. You’re gonna, as long as you feel safe. But, but there’s avoiding prepo, predators, all those other things. Yeah. And water distribution sometimes too. Yeah. Yep. On ears. So I can make him do a crazy, who knows. I know Cameron’s out in the middle of a lot of that desert country and you know, anyway, it’s, it’s a good question. But man, you can find ’em anywhere. I, I learned that wherever you see a ki you can find mul there and it’s the most, some of that stuff’s moonscape down there. Northern Arizona stuff out, you know, across the Navajo reservation, whatever. There’s deer out there and you think there’s no feed but they live. Yeah. You know what I mean? Are you saying coyotes and mild can live in harmony? No. Okay. I didn’t know where it was about the connection. Harmony is plus or minus. Okay. So last podcast we learned mag pies.

00:11:21:22 –> 00:12:38:00
You look for mag pies in this podcast we learned you look for, if you, if there coyotes, if cotes, if Cotes exist, which they exist everywhere milder can exist. That’s, I can tend kind, I like that I’ve seen under the Vermilion cliffs. I mean, you know what I mean? There’s some places you’re just thinking there shouldn’t be deer here, there shouldn’t be deer here. And the Navajo places, there’s a lot of those. No self-respect deer would live here and they do not much near the springs because that’s where the people are gather and they eat the deer. But you know. Yeah. But anyway, they can and will. Alright, moving along. D mech 54 says how to prepare for Colorado Unit 21 second season. Never been to this unit. Yeah, well if you can go early, I think you can learn the road system well you know, and you get cranking. But those deer, they, they do migrate a little bit on that, you know, that south end of the 30 21 boundary, they’ll summer and then they’ll, they migrate north. You know, they’ll spill off both sides. But the 21 deer will migrate north. And anyway, how do you, how do you scout a migration? You know? And it’s not a major migration, but I think to prepare for it is get a comfortable truck seat because there’s a lot two trackers, roads and oil and gas roads and just lots. You’re covering so much country. Yeah.

00:12:38:02 –> 00:13:47:28
Just it’s not about who can hike the farthest. I mean there is some of that oil spring wilderness and some of that stuff is definitely hable and there’s plenty of that. But you want to cover the most country you can I find in a lot of these. Yeah. Just learning where you can get access where you can’t is huge. Yeah. Yeah. So this is one of those you would go two days early, you know? Yeah. You’d go two days early and crank. I don’t know. Anybody have any very similar to 22 or something. Anybody have any other thoughts on how you’d prepare? 68? Second would be, those are, we’ll call ’em kind of high deserts type units that time of year. They’re not, there’s no 10,000 foot plus country in 21 or 22. So, you know, you don’t have to eliminate that stuff. It’s, it’s pigeon for sage brush. Yeah. A lot of two tractors. Man. Could be hunt some resident type deer that don’t go anywhere too. Yeah. Some of that stuff. Well, yeah, so there’s river bottoms, but a lot of that’s got some private in it. But those deer live there year round and there’s some legit, it’s, it, it’s fun. It’s one of the funnest uni to hunt. It’s so fun. And this year, yeah, I guess, I don’t know it, some of that stuff may have got hit a little bit with some of that winter stuff up that way.

00:13:48:11 –> 00:15:02:21
Much a hard winter. So you may, I wouldn’t go expecting to see tons and tons of deer. Not saying they all died, but this particular, no they didn’t. Oh. They didn’t all die. But, and there is, it is known for seeing quite a few deer, but like you said, you just, we just don’t know the full effects of what that looked like. You know what I mean? Yeah. What do you got, Bronson? Nothing. Oh, next question. Sounds good. I like it. Marty M 7 2 1 says, what type of training do you guys do prior to fall? Devon does tough letters. Yeah. Devon. That’s what, yeah, I’ll do his part. Race. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff like that. Not I said Adam. I golf. Hey, that’s, and I walk. How many steps you get a day? 18,000. I do a lot. We’re cranking, we’re active and I like to golf and I walk, I walk golfing. Me and other upper forties dudes that need little extra burning and it doesn’t do much. But I admittedly I train harder the years. I have something early, like a sheep hunt or something up north. Like I can’t just show up. But I like hiking the mountain. I know that’s really old fashioned, but I mean, I like using my boots and I like, I like up and down, up and down. You know that, you know, you use different leg muscles going steep up than you do steep down.

00:15:02:21 –> 00:16:06:04
You gotta use ’em both. One, I feel like I need to, I, I’m not a go to the gym guy. I have everything in my house that I need to do it for. And I like to work out one, I wanna work out with any weights or free stuff in my house. I’m not going to the gym. You’re never gonna see me. I have a StairMaster with a selfie. I have a StairMaster at my house. I got those, the glorified whatever it’s called. Whatever new ones are called. I got one a couple years ago. Yeah. By request for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Thanksgiving. Yeah. Where’s my head at? I have a StairMaster, elliptical weights, whatever. But everything’s at my house. ’cause you’re never gonna see me at the selfie in a gym. I promise that. Yeah. But then we do, we’re out in the hills a lot. Running cameras, hiking our guts out. Josh, you were hiking. Top glassing didn’t hikes When I would work The Henry’s hard, just the glassing knobs that you’d hike to there would get me in shape. Yeah. I’d have a month hard of scouting. And I was, of course that was in my mid thirties to early forties. It’s different. It’s getting a little different. Yeah. But anyway, I think you touched on one about the downhill. That’s a really hard to be ready for. Yeah. If you got steep downhill. Yeah. Yeah.

00:16:06:27 –> 00:16:56:29
And running different parts of your, I’ve ran a lot before. One, one year I ran a lot and I thought I was gonna be a hero. Yeah. Doesn’t anything for you. And I’ve guided marathon runners and all that. It’s not the same marathon. Only way to be ready to to hike is to hike. We had a marathon runner guy do the Frank Church and I mean, it was like, it wasn’t even ready for, it used a lot more of your, it’s a different butt butt muscles and stuff like that. Hiking and all that than you do running, you know what I mean? You lose a lot more of your legs, calves, hamstrings, all that. But anyway, I like to hike with weight on. That’s probably my favorite. That’s what I do. I’ve done that too. You get on with on the StairMaster with a pack. Yeah. You know. All right. Moving on Nick. I guess we’re, turn the page. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Matthew underscore five says, how long do you scout a new area before moving on? Not seeing the size of buck you want. This totally depends on the area.

00:16:57:11 –> 00:17:55:04
Like, like if you’re in an area that you know is full of deer, but it’s thick and tough and there’s a lot of different classing knobs and well, it’s gonna take you a little longer if you’re just, if you’re in an area you can see really well and you feel like you’re seeing 80%, you know, in, in a morning and an evening and another morning or something, I’m freaking moving. You know what I mean? But a lot of guys, they, I’m a run and gun. We can go around the table. I’m a run and gun. I hit so hard. And if I’m seeing 70% or something, I’m freaking on the, on the move. There’s some guys that wanna see a hundred percent vet it all out. Sometimes you don’t. And move to the next area. Sometimes you don’t have enough days during a hunt or or scouting season to do that. Yeah. Or one. But one thing I will say is when, when you find a buck, whether you’ve seen a trail cam, a picture of him, you’ve seen him one time I lock on and don’t leave. And now you go back five times and don’t see him, still don’t move. I, it’s totally different. But I learned, I learned from that. I’m like, like I’ve been here five straight times and haven’t seen this deer and I know he’s here. And so it’s hard.

00:17:55:09 –> 00:18:51:10
It’s easier a little bit to spend a little more time in another area then that you haven’t seen him the first four times. You’re like, well, there’s gotta be something here. Yeah. Sometimes you have a gut feeling, sometimes you’re wrong. A lot of times you’re wrong. Sometimes you’re right. Pays off. So gotta go with your gut, depending on how much time you have prior to your hunt, how long the hunt is. You got a five day season. You can’t just grind a glassing knob out unless you know something’s there. Right. It’s hard. You gotta keep moving. Push the going. Yeah. So I push it. I I push it personally. Devin, what do you do? Same. I would rather risk missing something and cover more area. Another thing I’ll do is if I, if I go back to the same spot a second time and I see all the same bucks I saw the first time, yeah. I’ll hit that even faster. Yeah. When I’m moving on, like, hey, there’s no, but then I look back at Buster and I think I see him all, I see all the bucks he was running with. I could have, I, I actually could have killed a few of the bucks that the, the better bucks he was running with. But he was the one lone ranger and, and had I not known he was there, I’d have moved on. Never thought. Another thing about it.

00:18:51:21 –> 00:19:50:01
So you learn stuff, right? Yeah. We do miss the big ones. But what were you saying? It’s like what? Oh, I just, you always say don’t, like, don’t watch a deer. You’re not gonna kill for 25, 30 minutes. Yeah. Don’t, yes. I, you just gotta go. Don’t, I mean, you’re not, he’s not gonna grow in front of your eyes every minute. He’s not what, what you really want. Move. Yeah. Especially in the summer. I mean minutes. I mean, I’ve seen a lot of bucks this year. Just, I, I had two, three minutes left. One more spot and there he was. Yeah. So, sure. I don’t know. Minutes matter, especially in the early season. Minutes matter. Wow. That rolls off the tide. That was pretty good, huh? I like it. Minutes matter. It gives me anxiety. I love it when I’m out there. Like I gotta go. I gotta go. I gotta go. Especially the summer months when it’s getting hot and you’re like, I only got till 8, 8 30 and it’s done 10 hours of heat and misery throw. It is misery now. You can’t even check truck cameras in the middle the day you gonna drive around and look for buck trucks. Shoot, shoot you boat for 10 hours around camp. Yep. So, no, no. Get stove up. Kind of panic mode. But I love that. Okay. I like it. Josh, what do you think?

00:19:50:27 –> 00:20:54:25
Yeah, I, I don’t, I guess the trigger for me was just when you start feeling like you’re seeing either the same number or the same deer, same buck, then that it’s time to go. But there’s obviously, just like Adam said, I know there’s areas and you have to look at the same deer in the same box unfortunately. ’cause there is something there that you know of. But if you haven’t found that something, then yeah, just keep, keep going. Kill the buck on the Henrys that way. Once found the deer, August 1st would seem about every two weeks and I’d go look for ’em every time. And it was two weeks before the rifle hunt. I had a client coming in, hadn’t seen the deer. I still couldn’t see the deer. I mean, we’re talking eight or 10 days of glossing there. Opening deer day, the deer steps out right where we’ve been looking pounding, geez. 245. It’s worth staying for. Yeah. I knew he hadn’t moved and he was right there. And it was, that’s the problem I have is if you have one target buck, one target buck, and you, if, and you don’t find him and you and you can’t find him, what are you gonna move on to? Like you’ve scouted all summer, you have one target buck, like you’re gonna just randomly go find another one.

00:20:55:06 –> 00:22:20:27
Like, so for me, even though it sucks, you gotta just like buster 28 or some days you said like you, he’s big enough, like he’s consuming you. That’s what wanna for. Yeah. And I’m like, okay, so I’m, I can move on and what am I probably not stumble onto another 2 20 30 back. No, that 2 30, 34 or five inch pipe mass. Well pipe mass in going cheaters. Few extra guards and just a butt belly. Anyway. Alright. So anyway, there you have it. So yeah, I guess everything, everything kind of depends. But I feel like the, a lot of the successful guys out there have a attention deficit disorder. Like a, like they’re, they’re very fast and, and I agree. The calm collected, there’s something to be said for that. There’s something, the guys are really successful, the calm, collected guys. But sometimes I think sometimes the to a fault they can be too calm, too collected, too methodical. And it just feels like the guys that are hyper and crank hard tend to have a little more success on average. I’m just, this is a gut fill. I don’t mean taking surveys or nothing. I’m just my gut fill. You guys feel that way I think should put pull on Instagram. All right. So with this comes out, do you take Ritalin before glasses, social media?

00:22:22:18 –> 00:23:30:26
Do you have a DD And do you feel like it’s maybe that’s, maybe that’s one positive from the a DD disorder or while you’re glassing one spot as you’re glassing, you’re already thinking I should probably be over there. Yes. That’s my problem. I think guys are always thinking there’s too many places that you wanna be at one time. Yeah. But those kind of, those type of personalities are always thinking, they’re just thinking outside the box. They’re not content. And I don’t know, sometimes I wonder if it doesn’t help ’em a little bit. All of a sudden you got three tires at work, one truck wheel that’s flat. Ah, those guys are always a wreck. They’re fun to be around. Tell me Jo, so Josh, question, reader guy, social media guy. I guess we’ll do that poll when this comes out. How about that? We’ll do that. Interesting to see the wording of that question. See if we lead you to the answer. Whether the way we want it to be answered or, or not. Any surveyor, any quality surveyor knows how to do that. Alright, keep going. Start a question with a statement. Has everybody answered? Did everybody answer that? Yeah, John, I think John, same kind of thing. Yeah, I don’t care. I don’t know if there’s a, if there’s a right answer. It’s just a, a gut feel. Just depends. Yeah. Gut feel.

00:23:30:26 –> 00:24:44:07
Sometimes you’re one way and then, but like you said, it depends on what you’ve seen and what, what the situation is. Yeah. All right. I like it. Okay. KBS 4 0 6 says, do deer that are grown out further than others in an area stop a few weeks earlier. Yes. Yes. Dear deer there, there’s some three to four weeks different than deer. Yeah. Growing. We see it every year. They killed a two 80 in Nevada August 1st. And we have deer that are 40 inches from being done. Yeah. Others. Yes. And that deer could have still grown just a little bit. Some of the guys that were standing there said, you know, it looked pretty dumb. Yeah, it did. But he’s like, put on another five inches or something. Yeah. You know what I mean? There’s other deer that, that Oh are gonna, we 30 have to put on, you can see bucks that are running together and you think the little one is just whatever. And then all of a sudden August 10th, he’s bigger than your first deer. Do you remember pipes that deer we hunted in Nevada. We ended up killing him with a gov tag. Anyway, he went 2 27 or whatever. But he was always early every year consistent. That deer specifically was the first deer that was finished that I’ve ever, that I ever found every single year in like July one. He’d be 2 0 5 or something.

00:24:44:07 –> 00:25:44:05
Like I would be like, he was just mind blowing. It was every year I could count on him being the most developed deer of any of the other deer I ever had. I was just going back when I was going through truck cameras and putting photos and folders and all that. I was looking back in previous years in Nevada. I gotta show you this book when we get back to my computer. But it was July 3rd or something. Just towering developed buck like that. Deer doesn’t exist this year in Nevada on July 3rd. It didn’t exist. No. And I, and it’s just shocking how sometime year year. But all things being equal, I do think they’re deer that, but individual deer that are speci, they’re always early. Yeah. Or than other bucks. Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. Or always later than other bucks. And yeah. But like you said, then there’s some environmental factors that factor into it so that that might set everything back roughly the same. Yes. But that’s still, that deer is still more ahead than others. Whether he was an early fawn and a bigger fawn or whatever. Whatever makes him that way versus another deer that was, you know, yeah. Born later, whatever. And it’s a little bit later. But you go to a place like the Henry’s or places where there’s a lot of bucks that you get to see a lot of deer.

00:25:44:05 –> 00:26:50:12
You see the wide variation, you’ll see deer that are three to four weeks difference in developmental. And the ones that are ahead, they just stop earlier. Well it’s the same as deer shedding. Sometimes you’ve 200 inch bucks hold ’em till March and you’re like, what’s going on? Some that shit. End of January. Yeah. Yeah. Just never know. Okay. Very good. Okay. Catch your breath before this question, Josh. This I, yeah. Speed read. There’s a period in there. Okay. Colton Rogers says, do you guys think that long range hunting has had a large impact on the overall number of animals? And more specifically the reduction of mature buck slash bull on a la on the landscape year to year? This isn’t limited to just rifles, but also bows slash muzzle loaders that shoot way farther than they could ever five to 10 years ago. There are a lot of bucks slash bulls being killed or wounded at 400 yards plus that would probably have made it in the past. After speaking to fish and game officers at, at a meeting earlier in the year about it. He said that while flying this winter, the deer slash elk population counts. He said he saw were more, he saw more wounded deer and elk than he ever had before. And attributed it to long range hunting and all the hype around it.

00:26:50:20 –> 00:28:16:09
What are your thoughts on that and at what point do hunters advocate for putting a hunt back into hunting and instead of long range shooting, put put emphasis on learning slash teaching, how to stock effectively and kill them close. Thanks. Okay. There’s a lot here. Yeah, there’s a lot here. I think we should just start at the top and work one by one. What do you think? Yeah. Do you guys think that long range hunting has had a large impact on the overall number of animals and more specifically the reduction of mature boxing bulls on the landscape year to year? So what do you think, Josh? Start with you Start with me overall number. No, I don’t think so. As a on on a scale, there’s so much more that are taking care of deer than the thousand deer tags that are issued to a deer on a unit when it comes to mature bucks, mature bulls getting killed. I think it specific impacting those, yes. It’s giving guys the ability to, to target and kill a mature buck or bull that they don’t have to put as much work in to get killed if they can sit back on a ridge and kill him. Okay. So there is an argument out there that’s saying, well overall success is the same regardless of technology for example. So it doesn’t hold water to say that, you know, equipment effects success rates.

00:28:16:18 –> 00:29:21:17
And your point is, yeah, but let’s define success rates success on an older age class animal Yeah. Is increased. Yeah. Be different with technology versus I had a four power scope and I saw a buck, I better shoot it ’cause that’s right. So he was successful. He was successful three by four on paper. He is still successful. Or he could have held out for 26 inch four by five or whatever he, 20, 80 bucks whatever, one 90 bucks. Whatever. He could hold out knowing that his new technology would help him be successful on the last day on the 80 buck that he saw. Yeah. You know what I mean? You could maybe extrapolate that a little bit to the other weapons too. I mean those are more effective. Yeah. Muzz loader are more effective. Whether you can use scopes or whether you can’t, they are than they were 20, 30 years ago when we were kids. If you’re gonna walk out the door and you have an open site muzz loader or a turd muzz loader and you’ve got a good setup that you’re comfortable with, they’re both legal. Yeah. They’re both legal. Whatcha gonna grab or a long bow versus Versus a compound with sites and everything else. Sites and set up and wazoo out. I mean there are purists that like to just think through it. Oh, there’s purists and I’ve used them for fun, but I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah.

00:29:21:21 –> 00:30:26:10
Just for, and the reason why is ’cause you feel like you’re more effective if you see an animal, you have a better chance of killing it. If you see an animal you want, you have a better chance of killing it. So that could lead us to the next part of this question. You do feel like you have a better chance of killing it. Which maybe you contend with the old flintlocks or the old bows, older rifles that maybe you felt like you, maybe you would win more. Okay. ’cause you’re not as effective. And so that’s the other thing. There’s another argument. There’s, people are saying, well all these long range, you know, are are allowed for more animals to be wounded ’cause people are taking shots they shouldn’t and they’re not really trained to do. And, and we’re, and then there’s some people that are saying, yeah, like a long range, let’s, let’s call it a long range company would argue that the better equipment you have, the more chance you have of harvesting gooding that animal ethically instead of lobbing and praying bullets. And that you don’t even know. And how many times were we and our families involved in lobbying? Yeah. And hoping just a lot and praying. Yeah. Lots of it. Without even knowing how to watch an animal or have some spotter watch to see if you hit it and or walking over there, you know, died and haven’t cold calculated kills.

00:30:26:10 –> 00:31:30:00
Yeah. We have a lot of calculated kills nowadays. Yeah. So, so I think there is a little bit of both, a lot of gray area in both areas. And it’s hard for me to say whatever this survey, some, this guy I talked to, so the survey saw whatever he saw limping deer and elk and it said it has to be the long range thing. Pretty. I don’s don’t think you can say. Well, and it’s so, yeah. You can’t just say that’s the cause it’s u could be unique to that flight and it just so happened that’s the way it was. Whatever. Right. Yeah. Why are they limping? I don’t know. And but may maybe, you know, maybe, but it also may be just fitting an agenda. Maybe they’re hypersensitive to it. And, and, and that biologist is just, it’s on everybody’s mind because we’re talking about technology in all the states and that’s his opinion. So he’s gonna Yeah. And his opinion is, and then he’s seeing, no matter he saw three of ’em limping at five of ’em, limping in a one day, you know, eight hours of flying. And he’s like, he’s convinced. That’s my point. Gotta be, that’s my point when we, because I think basis it’s on everybody’s mind right now. It’s, it’s, we’re, we’re hyperfocused on. What what I think has happened is we’re we’ve gone through this drought, we’ve gone through winter kills both depending on the states you’re in.

00:31:30:06 –> 00:32:36:10
Our numbers are way down. Yeah. Numbers are way down. And we want change. We’re sick of it. We want change. Well, you can’t affect that, but you can affect what technologies we use and the effectiveness of rifles, gun muzz, loaders and, and archery equipment. And we, you know, we can affect tag numbers and we can affect season dates and we can, there are things that we can do and, and we can affect the use of trail cameras even though we love them. We can affect the use of thermal and all of these other things or range findings. Like, like one of our, you know, coworkers was talking about just eliminate the rangefinder. You’d, you’d, you’d fix everything. The archers would be affected evenly compared to muzz orders affected compared to raffle owners. But then you take a guy like Josh, Josh trained himself Josh, he could look at a rock at five 50 and be within plus or minus five yards. He’d be he’d be, I mean I’ve taken him along. Yeah. I’ve watched, he’s my human range fan range. Spotter. Spotter, spotter and, and or even Utah even wants to eliminate spotters. Yeah. Or, or you know, ’cause it’s gone to this length be not necessarily that people are against spotters or guides or anything. It’s just we’re kind of at a low of populations and populations mature. Everything’s Yeah.

00:32:36:10 –> 00:33:47:26
But, and that challenge hypers and the challenge is what can you, I’ll use the word easily or effectively or definitively black and white. What can you define in short order? Yeah. Like, or you can take no scopes on muzz orders. Okay. And we can, we can do that in one year. We can make that change. No thermal, no trail cameras. Now we start talking about, we’re trying to help the animals. That’s what everybody’s wanting. You start talking about scopes can be three to nine, but not, not 12 to 14 rifles. You can’t shoot over 500 yard. What, where do, how do you govern things needs to an easily defined limit, right? Black restric and white. The rifle is honestly that has everything. The rifle has the biggest advantage obviously has the most, you know that the cartridges, the bullets, the range finders, you know, with the dope with your load and the dial turrets. But it’s also, in my opinion, the hardest thing to black and white reregulate. Where do you, where do you cut it off? Let’s say, let’s just say open sight rifles, which I mean we haven’t used those for 70 years. What? I mean that three day rifle season’s not even realistic because, so we can argue about that. Right. You could argue that we need to go back to 30 thirties, but are you gonna win that fight? Is that ever realistically gonna be the regulation? No.

00:33:47:26 –> 00:34:47:03
And it, so don’t talk about it. Don’t, don’t talk about it. But but maybe season length on something like that. Yeah. Maybe is what you have to inc maybe electronics incorporated into rifle scopes. You know, that’s easily regulated. That’s been pretty talked about I think in a lot of places right now you can’t have a automatic hold over adjustment you based on the range in built into your scope. But it’s a, well we’re saying, and then also we’re talking a lot about primitive weapons. What, what are are is it primitive to have a turd muzzle loader? No. It’s making rifle hunters being willing to pick up a muzzle loader and don just hunt earlier or later seasons, whatever you Yeah. Like you said, you, we, we talked about this, we talked about the five day rifle elk hunt doesn’t really matter because now I got the muzz order hunts 12 turd 12 day, the 12 day turd muzzle loader hunt. It’s still a rifle hunt the next day, like for 12 off you go. Yeah. Did that really, is that really gonna, I wonder if it’s really gonna change the number of big bulls killed on Utah. No, it’s ’cause you cut the tags on the early rifle down and cut it five days. But you got, you got 12 days of the muzz loader and then another high powered rifle hunt for another 13 days right after that.

00:34:47:09 –> 00:35:55:29
So for 25 days for the mid rifle, you’re the mid rifle. You’re that and yeah, it’s kind of a poster rutt, but it’s still kind of tail end of the rutt. And I think part of this is because it’s so hard to change and people are so passionate that, you know, they don’t want to, it’s hard to take things away. You’ve, you’ve been able to use this and now you take, that’s hard thing about, you know, that’s hard. It, it needed, in a perfect world, it needed more drastic, more weighing, balancing out, weighing out the consequences plus and minus before some of this change. Let’s take scope. So Muzz loaders in Utah. Well, okay, sounds good. I’m gonna, I’m gonna freaking load up my muzz loader. Well, okay. The time to really have that serious talk was 2016 or whenever that happened. Yeah. You know, back when we went from one power scopes to multiple power scopes. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And you got other states like New Mexico that have gone back. They’ve won their, you know, they back good site. And Mexico, if you remember New Mexico was one of those states that basically anything that basically said muzz order around it was legal. There was not very much. Yeah. That was illegal about a muzz order in New Mexico. Yeah. And same thing with Arizona. Like same thing with Kansas. You remember all the, I mean anyway, we were Yeah.

00:35:56:01 –> 00:37:06:17
Utah was plus or minus similar like it until similar with the one power scope. And then, and then gradually we’ve just kind of wanted to use whatever, some of those things like you’ve wanted to. But then at some point when the times become tough, you got the droughts and winter kills, then everything’s under scrutiny. Yeah. We get three, four years of awesome weather and all that. The last thing we might be talking about is, all right, when there’s bucks, bucks, bucks for everyone, nobody cares what you use. ’cause we all have big bucks Buck. We all have a buck. What I, anyway. Yeah. So de Josh, I have a, i I, oh this is, I’m totally wrong. This is gonna be good. My opinion is wrong. I get just cut it right now. Get it, get it. Just cut it. What minute are we at? 36, 39. Some of it kind of bugs me that I, I kinda wish they would cut tags and instead of let’s issue more tags. Make everyone less effective and more unhappy. Okay. So this is, this is, I love this argument. I know I love this argument, but I you’re right. ’cause there’s a lot of people that think that. So let’s just take our scenario just a little bit deeper. If you don’t regulate technology or advancements and hunting tactics. Yeah. Let’s make everybody as effective as they possibly can.

00:37:07:00 –> 00:38:18:01
So let’s just make it, let’s move the needle from 30 or 40% kill to 90% kill. Right. Okay. Okay. Let’s move the needle. Let’s say it was a hundred percent whatever. Let’s just make everybody tag. Let’s you, if you’re gonna shoot a tag, you’ve paper tag you however you want, you’re entitled to an animal, you are gonna issue drastically less number of tags. Yes. And lower under a proper management. You can’t kill, you can’t have everybody be successful and leave tag numbers. Okay. Right. So now you’re not gonna have tag numbers. Now you’ve got draws that are skyrocketed because you’ve gotta cut tags to a third or more. Yeah. And I, and I’m not saying it’s like I’m totally right. We should go to the now nobody can hunt though. Go to the end. It’s just, it just bugs me a little bit to the premise of that we’re worrying that we wanna cut success rates like you’re saying. It’s like the drought is doing more. If we have five years of great rain, it’s gonna do more than, than all these other little things. That’s true. It’s true That I don’t know. And I’m not saying we shouldn’t do anything and we shouldn’t change here and there, but I don’t dunno. But like he said, sometimes imm like at some point, where is the hunt, not the hunt or how are we gonna put the hunt back in the hunt, you know? Yeah.

00:38:18:01 –> 00:39:25:15
And I don’t know. So that dude, like we should come up with, you know, a buck knife only hunt and you gotta jump on the deer’s back and slit his throat. Okay. For that dude. And that dude could be still, but if you did that you could offer everybody two, everybody deer. Everybody could have a tag. They could have two deer tags. John Rutt hunt. No, and I don’t, I don’t necessarily in the rutt think that’s right. But it’s, yeah, everybody, so I think, I think the, the opposite side balance of that is, is yeah, you, you, you have to limit success rates. So we can issue a bunch of texts. Everybody has the opportunity to go out and participate as best as possible. Yeah. But it’s like, man, where in the, when does it stop or Yeah, I dunno. But it just goes to my nature of not liking regulation. You don’t like government regulat. Look at government. Look at this though. Look at in this scope real quick. 1992 archery, those guys were hunting a primitive season with primitive weapon. Right. Compared to 2022. What we have, I had brass pins. I had to put white out. Exactly. I had to have white out on the tip. They’d stick out a little bit more. I would use my mom’s. 10 minutes later, my mom’s now nail polished male stuff and color those pins. Or I didn’t have pins. That was a primitive weapon.

00:39:25:19 –> 00:40:31:15
And I think people did the archery back then. ’cause it was primitive. I think if you look at it, that scope of where, where that started and those special season dates, remember of the muzz loo during the rutt, the muzz loader was general deer in the rut. Everybody got an over the counter tag for the most part. And when we, when we were kids in the, it was a dedicated hunter. Yes. Just the deer tag. Just the deer tag. We hunted the, with a bow. If you didn’t kill, you get a hunt with a rifle you didn’t kill, then you get a hunt the first 10 days in November with an open sight muzz. And why? Because you weren’t as effective at killing and Yes. And we, we did have more deer. I’m not gonna, we had more deer. But you also were less effective. You were, you were less effective. But it’s, it’s also hard, like if I It’s the same 18, they could do a hams hunt to have in the rutt. Yeah. ’cause they know they don’t have a negligible impact. Really. Gotta a pump shotgun with, you know, a bead on barrel or a archery Yeah. Whatever. Handgun. Open site handgun, open site archery nozzle loader. Or if you take away range finders, like, I don’t know, like I don’t, I don’t really want to go in the field without being able to effectively kill something. I, I never range anything.

00:40:31:15 –> 00:41:39:03
Even when I have a range renderer. So, so and and how many times doesn’t matter where me, that was that bush at 75 and it was 68. Golly four. I wonder you need Josh over your shoulder. That’s right. Does that make sense what I’m saying? They’re like, it makes sense, sense back in the day. And as far as this guy’s about the harvest and the take, I don’t think it was a whole lot different guys were just shooting what they saw and usually it was on the run. ’cause you’re walking through trees now. Everybody’s up glass and shooting bucks at 600 yard strategic. And I think part of it now is it’s changed the way we hunt. We also are so selective because we can be, because we’re confident we could take something home if we want later. I agree. Later. Whereas before you had to kill kind of what you jumped to three by four run. He looked pretty good. He had redfield 10 by 50. I don’t gonna say that doesn’t happen now, but there is more. There was no strategic bonos. No. I mean do tactics and technology and, and then the scarcer game gets, or the more value, the more value people put on them, the more they’re willing to spend. It feels like nobody has a job these days. Look at, look at people can spend 30 days straight.

00:41:39:23 –> 00:42:46:11
I know a kid, I met him out here and we know him. He, I said, how much time do you got to hunt for Nevada? He goes, I can do a solid month. I’ve been saving some time off. And so I can do a solid month. A month, if not a month and a half. I think I could do a month and a half away from work. He’s halfway into his yearly Jason Carter court. 45 minutes. Well I don’t even talk. What about weekends and holiday pay and whatever else, right. Sick leave. Who knows? I’m just, I was just gonna say the difference in the hunters and what they have on a limited entry unit for in Utah for example, versus like a general, if you only hunted the limited entries, you would be like these, everyone here is like serious. Serious. Yeah. So I don’t know. That would depend too, if he’s hunting constantly these premier units. Yeah. You’re going with some really serious guys. Really serious optics. Really serious gear. Yes. You know, and why is it that, why do they do that? Because they’re gonna be more effective and, and it, and when you’re more effective, it doesn’t necessarily kill change, kill race. ’cause you’re probably gonna kill a deer no matter what. Most people can’t go home without one. We know this from Colorado. Even all the Utah guys have to bring home a deer no matter what.

00:42:47:00 –> 00:43:53:07
All I mean, no matter what. ’cause they don’t have one in Utah to shoot whatever. Yeah. We killed all ours and we need to go there. I don’t know. And so, but people travel, they want to kill ’em and people admit it. Even guy guys friends of mine, they admit it like I, I just want to kill him. But they don’t. Then when you go to gutting them, you’re like, why did I do that? You know? Yeah. This thing’s positive. So the success rates might be the same, but there’s more pressure on that, on that trophy buck, you know? And then guys are arguing, well, because there’s more trophy we potential or more, you know, emphasis on the trophy. The little ones get to grow up and, and the other, you know, anyway, there’s, there’s all kinds of counterarguments and I don’t know that there’s a, an exact right answer. It’s, you know, there’s probably a balance here and there. But also I would like, if, if they do change things and then things get really good, maybe, maybe there’s, you change that. Some give and take. Like there’s some give and take and it, you could fluctuate. It’s a hard it. This is a very passionate subject and I think people don’t wanna be, they’ve, they’ve invested a lot of people paid. What do, what do those Garmin sites cost? Like 11, $1,200. 1200 bucks. Okay.

00:43:53:07 –> 00:45:00:15
So a lot of people bought ’em and they’re like, now I bought this. And they were passionate about it. They don’t wanna go sell it. But, and so it’s hard to make change once people, you know, here, we’re gonna give you a car to drive set up. Now we’re gonna take your car away and give you a bike. Yeah. You know, well I don’t want a bike. Well it’s gonna make everyone more fit. Yeah. We’re gonna reduce the carbon emissions from gas. It’s better for all of us. Yeah. The area you breathe is gonna be more healthy. I’m just saying, you know, anyway, put at some point, I think we’ve gone so fast to being able to shoot sniper ish that it, you know, even the guys, even guys, if you look at yourself in the mirror, you know, you know it’s right and you’re just saying, and it’s fine if there’s deer for everyone, it’s fine, but there’s not, and people are tired of half an, even general tags are now taking four to six years to draw. People are over it. They’re over it, they’re disgusted. They don’t know why. You know what I mean? And then you have droughts and now everybody’s hypersensitive and what can you control? All you can control are these mini variables, whatever they are. Right. Season dates, hunt methods, tactics, hours, whatever. And you’re trying to give the game a chance. But anyway, what do you think, Josh?

00:45:00:15 –> 00:46:15:10
You’ve been kind of quiet. I mean what’s the, whats the gamey in you say next question. No, I’m being serious. Did we vet this out enough? Ah, yeah, we did. Okay. Do you believe that there was more rooted animals because of no technology? I don’t know that people are more effective. What percentage of general season hunters do you think have serious long range setups? I, I don’t think it’s really, really high. I but thinks it’s a lot better than it was in like some of these, these companies are selling, some of these companies are selling more rifles than I ever thought they were. I don’t know, like in the field, I’m still a lot of, I saw open sight 30 thirties, you know, people using those on a general hunt. Like, and maybe it’s more than, I think maybe it’s more than I think, I dunno, I just don’t think it’s the only reason. Not everybody has, it’s the only factor. And, and there’s so many, you know, dead and wounded animals because of long range. I just don’t think it’s a single factor. I was telling Devin yesterday, just the amount of stuff that dies during the hunting season would blow your mind. That stuff you have to go look at and why it died. How it died. But you would find a random dough as an officer you’re talking. Yeah. Yeah. You’d have to go.

00:46:15:13 –> 00:47:19:21
I, I remember several times just going, investigating a random dough on a random hillside, 50 yards off of a road with a muzzle ods slug in her ribs. Like somebody just shot it, make sure their gun was on. Yeah. Somebody dude just got bored. Oh, this gun on. Sorry, somebody just, just wanted to kill something. Whatever. Like, just the amount of stuff that dies is just mind blowing. People are disgusting. Yeah. Just, it’s just, it, it makes you sick. Actually, that was one of the things that surprised me the most, the amount of stuff that you have to go look at that’s just hunter related deaths that never accounted for. I think that’s why closing units sometimes guys say how does closing units for five years bring the deer numbers back when we never had dough hunts prior to the being closed. There’s incidental, incidental factors. Josh, I’ve never really wondered this, I guess until you said that, but how big of a problem or an impact is, is poaching actually, I mean, I think what, who poach you? Don’t, you know what I mean? Can’t even think of somebody with a poach problem. Yeah. Like I can’t even imagine it. So you’d be shock, I think. Yeah. So like, I, is it, I mean, is there a big percentage or, I dunno, it’s hard to say, but it’s not going down really, huh?

00:47:19:28 –> 00:48:27:10
I mean, it’s, it’s still a high percentage and poaching is a big word as far as what poaching is, but there’s still a lot. I mean, just party hunting even. Yeah, yeah. Crap like that. Yep. Tags and camp and, but just you, they need to die until the tags are full. I mean, I’ve, I, same thing. Two point 0.2 points. The Mexico go having a bear tag. Somebody has a bear tag, somebody has milk tag and you can both be in the full call, the rattle, the same time call the rattle goes on. I mean, you’re only gonna see one good bear in a group of four. So only one of us get, get a tag. Two, two, you know, I’ve seen plenty of little bucks just shot and I’m, we’re all talking 50 yards from a road and just shot in the ribs died within seconds and just laying there. You’re like, why is this deer here? You know, you’d in winter range stuff, you’d drive around, same kind of thing. You’d get calls from guys. It’d just be a dead deer shot. Not even, not even antlers taking anything like that. Maybe somebody’s gonna come back, so maybe somebody got scared, whatever. But just, I wouldn’t say it’s significantly high, but it’s still still there. You get in, you get in a helicopter, take a survey, and you’re like, oh my gosh, look at all these long range kills.

00:48:28:00 –> 00:49:29:09
Tell me what it was the year before. Well, I guess I just don’t remember. What was it what, 1992? Yeah. Or 88. It’s two years ago. We had the second same technology we have today. Yeah. So why didn’t you notice it last year? I think because you’re hyperfocused on it right now. Because we’re talking about it in committees. Yep. What were you gonna say Arch? I just, I could be totally wrong, but I don’t think that Oh, poaching. Poaching. Like, I don’t think in today’s age it’s worse than it was. Back before we had a cell, everybody had a cell phone. Yeah. Phone scope. You might argue it’s, it’s less prominent because the thought of getting caught. Well, I could be totally wrong. I don’t know. I don’t know. I, my trip faith in humanity is gone drink down like crazy. It is, I think. But I also think in the back in the day, you could shoot a deer in November, you just quietly went to the end of the season and two weeks after you shot a buck and then pick him up in January, you’re like, yeah, I never told anybody. I got like all the slug this year. Okay, well now you say that and, and you say where your general tag was and someone shows a trail camera picture of that on the Ponzi gone 200 miles. That’s what I’m saying. With the amount of eyes.

00:49:29:09 –> 00:50:41:00
It’s just now I think people just, they’re doing it. They’re, we’re in network. They’re shutting up. Community of people are still, they still still trail cameras. They can’t believe they have the guts to do it. ’cause with the day and age of social media and, and hiding cameras to watch ’em, you know what I mean? Yeah. Had a couple stolen here on this general unit even and they took ’em twice. Maybe one year they took ’em twice and found my kids as hidden camera to that was gonna catch them. It was gonna catch ’em. Yeah. And they know the vehicle that’s taken it, but I’m just saying, you know, we’re gonna catch ’em. But did they find next year’s gonna be a surprise for ’em? But I’m just saying people, you would be shocked. I mean, everybody knows. They know. They would expect there’s gonna be other truck cameras on the road in and out or something, you know, like, and people still do it, man. The gut, I mean, hard to Shocking. Okay. Shocking. Yeah. Well we spent a good 15 minutes on that one, so let’s lots of, lots of discussion. Of course. But anyway. Josh Garrison Kinsel asks, on average, what would you say is bigger a determining factor in most big buck harvests you see these days? The quality of the tag or the quality of the hunter?

00:50:44:00 –> 00:51:49:21
I think that’s a hard one because per capita, if you look at the Henry’s or Ponga and all that, more people kill big bucks on those hunts than the gens per tag issued. There’s no question they should set that. The hundred. So the tag, the tag is better in those scenarios. But when you look at 75,000 general tags in Utah, they kill a lot of really good bucks on that too. Lot of times it’s, lot of ’em are killed by great hunters. Yeah. Killed by accidents. That’s so thing. We know guys like, we got a good friend that’s scouting a unit right now, and he’s met some of the other tag holders and he, and they’re, they’re in their minds, they’re seeing one 90 to two hundreds everywhere. Yeah. And they’re really like one seventies, you know what I mean? And I think, I think the quality of Hunter has a lot to do with it and not, and the quality of Hunter. That’s a little bit, it’s a, those are tough words, it’s hard to say, but I would say no, they could be the hunter with time. More prepared, better glass, more, more how to invest into it. The better prepared hunter. I mean, and there’s good dang good hunters you wouldn’t want to go up against it or, you know what I mean? That, but if you had to answer, answer that one way or the other.

00:51:49:29 –> 00:52:59:23
I, I think I would say if he’s talking about big bucks, I would probably say in general what we see a tag tag tag trumps hunters personally, if you just look at the, but the, but these general areas have big deer in not diminish the people that do it. Yeah. But I’m just talking about Yeah. Per big deer kill, that’s not even probably a comparison. Yeah. But it’s also tainted because those units are set so up for success so much more right out of the gate just by drawing the tack. So it’s not, you could be a less effective hunter and draw a great tag and still overachieve and kill a giant buck. Yeah. When on a general tag, you’re never gonna kill one that same guy. That’s true. So it’s, so that’s what I’m saying, if you have a quality hunter in a general area, he’s gonna do they, we got guys right here that are hunting like Southwest Desert for example. Yeah. Consistently smashing giants. Exactly. They’re working their guts out. I’ve always said it’s tags and time. You have to have a tag. You have to have tag or tags in your pocket and then the time you put in it, put in tags and time. But could, you could add equipment too. You could add some other thing, you know, attitude, whatever. Like, you know, there’s a hundred other things. Okay. Anything to add? Devin, what do you think? Quality hunter?

00:53:00:09 –> 00:54:16:09
Quality attack. That’s tough. I think biggest determining factor for most big bucks, you see, I would argue come off of the top premier units. Yeah. I, I like there’s an strip that’s one my point is, but, but it’s also a tain thing because you’ve got so few tags, high buck to dough ratio, low hunting pressure, and you’re set yourself up for great. So I, I guess the biggest determining factor for me would be the tag. Okay. If you had to pick one or the other, I would say that, but I think if you have not to minimize guy A and guy B that draws strip tags. Oh yeah. Guy A that’ll make a difference is your serious dude that knows what he’s doing and hasn’t never quit attitude. My money’s on him. I agree. But overall, and you take them both and put ’em on the same general unit, you’re definitely, the money’s on the one guy. Definitely. Yes. So yeah, for sure. But, but you know, areas that are managed for big stuff, good grief. That’s they, they kill him. He doesn’t want that. Yeah. They kill him even accidentally. Yeah. All right. Like it question reader guy John Boar says, what hunt that you were involved in after all is said and done, were you in odd You don’t necessarily, you don’t necessarily have pulled the trigger yourself. That’s easy for me. Not even. Not even. He does. That was Jason.

00:54:16:12 –> 00:55:26:29
He does follow up and says on a podcast in spring of 2020, Jason didn’t want to talk about his Alaska trip. Has his wounds healed or did it pull off bat? I guess it doesn’t protect that question, but I was in odd, I guess you could say, I don’t know that those are related. I think they’re two specifically different questions. Mine would be Jason’s deer is Arizona deer, 2 75 deer. We, we used to talk about it weekly at nausea and, and over and over. But that we looked and said, we said literally, is this ever gonna happen again? We did. And we keep trying to make it and, and we haven’t yet. But I mean, not that the number is what you’re trying to trump, because that’s a really, I I would contend that that a deer, any of us in this room’s gonna shoot’s. Not gonna trump that score. No, but I mean the experience, experience yourself. Experience the type of deer too, and by yourself, let’s just call it two thirty, forty plus. I mean that’s, that drives us. And it doesn’t feel like that’s unattainable. Feels like it’s, yeah. Doable. But that was one for me that it was just like this, the, I mean, wheeled a bonfire and sat there for like four hours till one in the morning and it was negative seven in the, we had to have in the bottom of the valleys here and there.

00:55:28:18 –> 00:56:40:06
It was just one of those soak it in because, and I’ve had a couple others with clients had, you know, a few moments with me. But I mean, yeah, it’s, those are special moments. Josh, you killed a big bull. Devin, you’ve killed stuff. I think we’ve all, you just wonder, all right, that was a good drink. When am I gonna get another drink? When’s the next drink like this gonna happen when I didn’t pull the trigger? Yeah. Or yeah, like guiding the client maybe something like that. Oh yeah, lots of that. Yeah. Especially the ones that like a $3,000 two on one and we smash a 200. Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Or I like the surprise ones where you’re, you know, we see a good three early season bull, we’ll kill it. We end up killing a four 20 bull. Yeah. On a $6,500 draw tag by yourself back in the day. And that was back in the day where you could hunt by yourself. Just, there was times that you’re never gonna get back. You realize that. And you know what, one thing thing you said the other day that I’ve often thought about too, is there, how many one-offs can you do? Like why we go learn a new unit, you kill a buck or a bull or whatever, and then you feel like the world learns about it. Never the same.

00:56:40:08 –> 00:57:41:23
You can’t end up getting a tag there again because there’s so much demand. You’ve changed the demand because of this information. Age and technology called the shelf life. And so you’re like, Hey, how many units can you do that in? And one off ’em kill another big animal. And then you have to go start over again and learn a new unit again. Because social media and the world learned about it and it changed, it changed the dynamic of that hunt or, or whatever, you know what I mean? Does, does that feel like the day and age we live in now versus back in the day, you could have your favorite area for 10 years and get that general text even if you tried to keep it a secret. You tell people, they tell somebody, they tell five people. We’re so connected. And the tighter you keep it out, you might as well not it blows. Exactly. You might as well not even try. I’ve almost learned it’s like you can’t just, well, it’s why we like Colorado and other places we hop around all the time because, you know, not to like, hey, trying to be cloak and dagger type thing. But like, you gotta just find something that’s not totally in the limelight sometimes. Well sometimes you try and so sometimes it doesn’t work.

00:57:41:23 –> 00:58:48:17
Sometimes you try not to blow out a unit and so you kind of keep it quiet and then people think you’re rude by, you know, quote, lying to ’em or whatever. And then people wanna prove that you’re lying. So they go tell everybody anyway. They go there for two years in a row and hate your guts for trying to lead ’em onto, to go into that unit. And you’re like, I didn’t tell you I was here on a random fence. I got a leftover tax. Don’t, don’t read too much into where I’m standing right now. Some circumstances I gotta tag because I’ve click of a mouse and I decided to come on. I clicked the mouse. Okay. I needed somewhere to go. Yeah. In fact, you know, Wyatt or Devin or somebody back in the office, click the mouse for me, help me. I, I was out today, said, Hey, you guys got text I owe, I’m owned my first born. I mean, I don’t know. So yeah, I just, anyway, I would add one too. Like, I don’t know, my Arizona ry elk hunt. Yeah. I had, if, if I could explain to people the amount of bad luck, even though I had a blast. But I mean a second here, I’m just grateful since Herem, somebody else has bad luck besides me. Oh, unbelievable. But you know what, like Josh was there, my brothers were there.

00:58:48:21 –> 00:59:48:21
I hunt alone a lot ’cause everyone I know is a hunter. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a freaking blast when I drove home. I was like, I feel better. I feel more fulfilled about this hunt than I do a lot. That I have something dead. That, and that was a chance tag. Like you took a chance on, on a unit. It was fun. Wasn’t one you deal about. I mean, I’ve walked up on world class bulls, so when it comes to elk, and I’ve been blessed that way, but I’m not hunting world records. I’m not hunting four hundreds, but really big good quality bulls. And it’s, it was just a blast. I think I went into it with the right mindset and Josh, we had fun. I had fun. It was a lot of fun. Except when the fish and game came to check my license and I turned around and Josh was gone. You don’t want him as a wingman if, if enforcement is around. Was he, was he carrying your license? Why did he No, the guy was talking to me and I already talked to him on the phone and I turned around and poof, Josh was gone. It was funny. We had a blast. But that hunt sticks out in my mind. Josh is a game. He, he knew what he was doing. Yeah. I was totally on the up and up and everything. I dunno what he was afraid of.

00:59:48:25 –> 01:00:53:09
Josh knows there was some nervousness, but not just ’cause you don’t have the right to search my vehicle. Why are you in my tent? Get outta my tent. There’s nothing involved this up in my head. No. And and it’s not just ’cause it’s relevant. Like that really was a fun. Yeah. That was a blast. Oh yeah, it was fun. It was fun just because it was kind of like, I wanna say we didn’t, not, we didn’t know what we were doing, but every day something was different. Like there was things that came up that was different. Every no day was the same and you didn’t know what tomorrow was gonna bring. So you just kept going. You could, you were hooked up good. Come up with some good and genius invention and it was kind of fun. Probably kind of fun to show, you know, people that there was big bulls when they said there wasn’t, you know what I mean? It’s kind people laughed at me. Yeah, a little bit. You and there, you’re in there. It was fun. It was, there’s a lot of hunts like that. Yeah. I like it. Alright. Yeah. I don’t really wanna talk about Alaska. The Band-Aid’s on and it’s not coming off. Oh, I don’t, I don’t care. It doesn’t hurt me. It’s duct tape. They ain’t getting it off. I’ll, I’ll basically review it for everyone. What it rained, it rained, it rained, it rained, rained.

01:00:53:09 –> 01:01:53:28
That was, that was I think the second time there was a boat that wouldn’t run. I think. Yeah, that was, that was what they’re referring to. That was about 2020, wasn’t it? Well it was that trip and the trip prior. Yeah. Yeah. Where you just, yeah, sometimes you just cut your losses. It’s not meant to happen. Yeah. And it doesn’t mean that right now I’m smarter. Now I made choices. I’m living with ’em. All right, here we go. Okay, I’m gonna struggle with this question, but I’m gonna get through it. Let’s move along. Paul Bias says, good afternoon gents. I had a question I wanted to pick your brains on. Oh, I drew the one non-resident once in a lifetime mountain goat tag in the Utah South Mountain unit. Did all the snow this year affect the mountain goats since it was so deep? Also, he does have a cool tag. Correct. I’m guessing they migrate down into the timber when the record breaking snowfall like this year. Yeah. I don’t know how they survive, but, but making happen when I go to, when I go to Alaska and I see where they’re living goats and all sheep in August when it’s the best it can look. Yes. And I, and then you know how much, how they survive. I have no idea.

01:01:54:01 –> 01:02:56:27
And if they can survive that the Al Mountains is like, well and down there they can, if they needed to, they go to the sand. Yeah, they’re like in Alaska. They can’t get away from it. They can’t, but, but they also, goats literally will eat pine and fur needles to survive. Yeah, they are. There’s no issue. They’re a garbage disposal just to, just to stay alive. And they’ll walk in the size of this room for a month. They’ll live right here. Literally. Like they do that. Those dutton goats did that. You know, we had a lot of those collared and when we, when we transplanted those there and it was pretty crazy. They’d pushed really, really low. I mean, right down to the pinon, juniper ridges. There’s some rocky stuff right up, just barely out of town kind of thing, you know, and, and they would live on a single rock all winter. I saw one once, nobody believed me. Right. About a big rock candy mountain up there. Oh yeah, yeah. Mountain goat. Yeah. Yeah. You don’t, they Circleville Canyon a couple. I don’t think you could kill ’em. I don’t think nature could kill. Yeah, it feels like that. But I know they do. They do win or kill. Not nothing like sheep. Yeah. Sheep are much more goats. They can, they can survive. So I’m not gonna tell you, don’t worry, but I’m gonna tell you Don’t worry, don’t worry.

01:02:57:12 –> 01:04:12:21
And have the hunt of a life to Paul. Yeah. Freaking awesome. How they can survive. I don’t know. Take my hat off. Geez. We’re down to a couple laps. We pushed. Let’s get this done. Push, push hard. Hey there. Great. Pat podcast. This comes from Dan Ryan here. A few questions. 200 inch buck fun questions. It says, yeah, 200 inch. That means we don’t have to give him a real answer on general, general public land or a two 40 buck on private land where the buck has never been hunted or doesn’t have a fear of humans on as public land bucks. Taking the 200 inch here. I want both, but I don’t know. I’ll take the 200. You would? Yeah, no question. Yeah. For me, general season public land. I mean, we were talking a little bit about it the other day. I just think even on private land, that they get hunted a little bit and you’re onto ’em. Like you’re, I’m not, I’m not minimizing those. They get smarter so fast. No, I’m not. But I mean, if I have to choose, I guess that’s, I don’t know if that exists. They’re, anyway, I, maybe it does. I’ve never seen a buck that’s go kill. I you feel John? Here, here, here. This is why it’s a fun question. Where can you kill a two 40 right now? In private? Yeah. That’s not afraid of two people. No. Even, even just go kill one.

01:04:12:21 –> 01:05:11:07
Even even go kill one. Just go kill one. Where can you find one? Still a tall one. I can’t even, I mean, yeah, two 40, we’re not, not the spare case. We’re talking even Alton two 40, we’re talking two 40. I don’t know, one time I went to Colorado to look at a rumor buck and I found him and I could’ve killed him with a spear. And he was, he wasn’t in a, what was he? He was, he was mid two fifties, probably 2 50, 2 42 50. Didn’t do anything for you. And, and I, nah, I mean it’s an awesome buck. But literally, I guess, well Carbondale, this is Carbondale or where was this? It was by Montrose. Yeah. Yeah. Just right in town up. Yeah. I mean it, no, it wasn’t in town, but it was on private. I walked over to the fence and like took some pictures and video at 20 yards and I walked away. It doesn’t do anything for you. I would rather smash the 200 cookie. I I agree. For compared to a buck like that. I agree. I agree. I could’ve speared him. But putting your hands on a two 40 is a deer though. I know. That’s what I mean. I know, but I, but my point is, is two 40 buck is so far out of the realm of real, real realistic. Yeah.

01:05:11:07 –> 01:06:23:01
Even on private anymore it with, at the state of milder today, two 40, I can’t even go identify the one place you would go on. Can’t think where it’s right now. You know, I’m sure there is one, but I dunno. Anyway, fun question. Whatever. Yeah. 200 I, I mean we have all the respect in the world for, for dear out on public land general. Good grief. You kill a 200 entry. You’ve done something. You heck, good guy. Good honor. Okay, the second question is, if there was a two year pause on elk and deer hunting in all Western states, you’re given one tag for each species for three years. When you, when it opens back up, which state and tag would you choose on year three after two year closure? Yeah. It says you’re given one tag for, and we’re gonna assume it’s a wet year. Four or three years. Huh? Four or three years. One tag for year three for each four year three for year three. No, just one tag on year three. What you picking? Elk or deer and whatt unit. That’s what he’s saying. I would say. And we’re gonna assume the moisture is great everywhere. Yeah. So I’m gonna say Jason Arizona deer’s gonna be Yeah, I mean you can’t, you can’t argue it. Yeah. I want to do 12 B on deer. Yeah. 12 B late 12. Late late 13 B with, or 12 with great dates. One of those.

01:06:23:06 –> 01:07:32:19
But like, there’s a deer. There’s two 40 bucks. Yeah. And it’s not on private. No. And it’s probably not really stupid. No, it’s gonna be a hug. It’s gonna mean it’s gonna, you won the Super Bowl when that thing hits the ground, that’s how you’re gonna feel. But similar is people almost expect it out there versus a 200 inch on general. So 200 inch on general might mean more to you. No, well I mean there were, this is all hypothetical. Yeah. So, but elk, I mean, geez, you shut one of these Utah elk units down for two years. The third year. Some of these units already have seven to eight, 9-year-old bulls on them. Yeah. It’d be scary. I mean, you’re gonna kill a 400 inch bull or hunt. Hunt multiple. It’s, but still I’m going deer. I had to as well. Probably Logan we’re like five to zero right now on deer now. But yeah, I mean, yeah, Arizona’s a deer I guess. Oh, Don, you’d said elk a minute ago. Well that was totally, I swayed your opinion. I shouldn’t if it should. Utah asked it that way. If it was Utah, that was one of those, I said it was five to zero if, what’s your boat? If I had to, if I had to choose Utah, I would biased sample sizes. Arizona. I would choose deer. So I, yeah. But if I had to choose only one, there’s only deer.

01:07:32:23 –> 01:08:39:10
I mean, after a two year shut, come on. No cameras, no hunting free. Yeah. You are literally walking among giants. I love learning. I just, I don’t know. This has nothing to do with nothing. I just think about the stuff that I like and I like learning all these new units. I’m hunting new units this year. Me too. Oh yeah. Love. I, I love the learning new stuff and the challenge. And when you find one, like, you know, we’ve got a buck or two found that are in places we’ve never hunted before and you’re like, it means a lot. It’s so gratifying. Even just finding, not even killing them. Haven’t even, hadn’t even started. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s, it’s so, you know the theory and the gut feeling you had for a while. Yeah. You were right. Yeah. It’s a good feeling. Yeah, it’s a good feeling. You’re just like, I’m gonna make good on something. At some point, dev and I had a dev and I had a good hunch like that a few years ago. Remember Colorado had it back to back. Yes. Rushed a couple bucks on wi on kind of a whim gut feeling. And that was, oh yeah, we were doing the same thing. We didn’t know it ’cause I, we had never talked about it. We were learning the dynamics of all the migration and those that, and all the studies. There’s well published on it.

01:08:39:27 –> 01:09:49:11
A lot of migratory stuff published. That’s right. And it was all coming together. Like we were hunting both sides. We were a short coming and shelf life. We were that That’s my point. One offs. Yeah. One offs. One and done. Move on. All right. All right. Question reader, guy. This question pertains to general season deer timeframe in October after jumping a buck out of his bed or blowing him out from a mis shot. How long have you seen it take for a buck buck to return to the general area if, if at all during the hunting season? I have struggled to relocate them in the past when this has happened. Thanks. That’s really hard. If you missed rifle shot, you’re Yeah. General in October, late October, they’re already kind of starting to flirt with maybe drifting and then if there’s a bunch of hunting pressure that could be like they’re, they’re sensitive. They’re sensitive, they’re screwed. You’re at a very fragile time right there. Which is when I want the long range rifle set up. Turrets. Well, and what he’s saying ELs don’t feel bad. ’cause that, that’s happened to probably every one of us. Yeah. Oh dear. During that timeframe, August or September, two, three days usually right back there. Chances. Yeah. You got chances or they’re, you know, sometimes the next day. But that’s a tough one, Craig.

01:09:49:23 –> 01:10:52:21
’cause Yeah, it’s, that’s a very, very finicky time of year when a little bit of, just like we talked about earlier, feed that freezes turns brown. They get, they’re looking for a reason to go. Boom. Well, guns are going off around them. Whatever they’re done, don’t mess it up. Just pray. It’s one of those bucks that likes to run circles like you talked about fish. Sure. See that happen. Oh yeah. They jump, take off, do a giant loop, loop. Jay hook don’t every hook and they come right back to where you missed him or jumped them. If, if you would’ve stood there, had somebody else track ’em and you stand there, they’d run you. That actually happened to my dad. Yeah. I was standing there. I looked down the thing’s 50 yards from me. Yeah. I’m like, dude, how long ago? How long after you shot or bumped him? Oh, he shot, he, he actually grazed him probably an hour, half hour, whatever. He went down, I mean, this is like an hour. He crept all the way around and he was standing right below me. Right where we shot him. Yes. Did you, did you kill him? No. Did he? No, because he jumped him. He, he saw me. He was watching and then he knew it was for real. Yeah. And he got shot probably a mile away. But he is watching, I assume he’s, he’s watching his back big.

01:10:53:00 –> 01:12:00:19
He seeing your dad once in a while and, and it’s like, I’m going right back to my house. He did. He did a big circle. Yeah. That was October. I hate it when they watched the backroll Happens every time. Yeah. Alright. Okay. Okay. Can’t beat him. All right. Last SoCal hunt fish says, last year I lost my first deer. I shot him in the shoulder, lost him and relocated, relocated him twice and found him and got another arrow in him. Four hours later he took off bedded 100 yards later I bumped him and he crashed a hundred yards later and head was in the dirt, backed out for 30 minutes and went in and he was gone. Two buddies helped me search and grid for seven hours. We lost blood after 500 yards. They glassed for birds the rest of the week. I went back the next week and grid seven miles. How often do you guys stay foc or how do you guys stay focused when you can’t find a deer or animal? What could you have? What could I have done different? He, when he took off and beded a hundred yards later. I mean, leave him mower night. You know what I mean? You got a second arrow in him or whatever it is. Yeah. It, I don’t know all the details. Was it an arrow?

01:12:00:19 –> 01:13:03:15
Maybe they gave him a lot of time, but, but that’s leave once you got the second arrow in him more time. Yeah. Because now it’s like, let that work. But also may have left him. You may have left him. I mean, there’s not a lot That’s not in, this doesn’t happen very often. No. He got two arrows in him. Yeah. Bumped him a hundred yards later. His head was in the dirt. He backed out for 30 minutes. Could’ve made that an hour, hour and a half. Went back in though He was gone. Who knows when he got up, was it when he was coming back in on him? Or did did another person bump him? Who knows. You know, situations like that. I always say time is your best. Is your only friend. Yes. Basic friend. It’s so hard sometimes. Yeah. What did the second arrow look like? Shoot him. Shot him the shoulder. Was it a shoulder shot? Was it a gut shot or do you even know where he had him, you know, second shot. This is a tough, that’s a hard one. That’s a tough situation. Really. This deer was, I mean, amped up probably didn’t have great shots is my guess. Yeah. On him. But they’re, they’re tough animals. Especially the end of that is how do you stay focused? I think it’s just, it depends on, you know, what you find and how much blood there is.

01:13:03:15 –> 01:14:20:10
And you know, there was that buck Jason that I was with you that I hit and we thought he was down and I looked for the next two days for him. Yeah. But yeah, you hit him, you spine him? Yeah. It but it was a, but I think it was between the spine and in the void. Yeah. In the void. I don’t know. Anyway, he, he, you slammed him. Yeah. And then we went over there. He over rock and, and there was just, there was just blood drag marks and he’s gone. Hmm. Yeah. It was kind of a bummer. That was a a hundred ninety five, two hundred. Yeah. You know. All right. Well, sounds good. Appreciate you everybody. Hopefully appreciate all the stuff everybody sent. Yeah. A lot of good questions. A lot of good stuff. I mean, we do this once or twice a year. This hopefully gives you something during the hunts, which are gonna be full bore over these last couple of weeks. You’ve been able to listen to some of these and maybe learn something, maybe do something different. Maybe not, but maybe just be entertained. But who knows? Wonder we gonna get back together next. It’s gonna get real here pretty quick. I know with some archery hunts coming up, so just underway. Yep. Real shortly here might be calling people in the field podcasting that way. Yep. Who knows? Sitting on a cell phone ridge and just middle of the day burning an hour.

01:14:20:14 –> 01:15:32:15
We’ve done that before. Let’s do it again. Those are fun. All right, everybody. Have a good evening. We’d like to thank all of our sponsors here at Epic Outdoors. For top of the line hunting, clothing, and apparel in every environment, visit under We’d like to thank Under Armour for being our title sponsor and making this podcast happen. Visit our website, epic pick for discount codes to Under Armour Hunting apparel, handcrafted quality precision rifles from start to finish. Red Rock Precision is one of our sponsors and many of our staff uses Red Rock rifles. Visit Red Rock to find out more. If you’re in the market for a hunting property, our sponsor at St. James Sporting Properties specialize in premier hunting properties throughout the west. Check out available hunting properties at st. James sporting Good looking comfortable. Camo describes KU U, the new bush pants from KU U. Keep your legs comfortable while walking through the thorns and bristles. Visit ku for sizing and prices. Ken Trek makes great boots for any situation. Most sheet punters in the high rocky altitudes. Use these boots to keep their ankles in. Check on the rough terrain. Visit ken to learn more. We at Epic Outdoors are a fierce firearms dealer and have many popular models in stock and ready to ship. Call us if you would like help deciding which options are right for you.

01:15:32:20 –> 01:16:53:09
Fierce long range Rifles are a great rifle and many of our employees here use them. Visit fierce to learn more. Triple S Polaris specializes in custom setup hunting side-by-sides. They deliver right to your door nationwide. Visit ss to learn more For affordable, long-range rifles and shooting schools, visit thompson long Hoyt is top of the line archery equipment. Hoyt is the official bow manufacturer of Epic Outdoors. Everyone on our staff shoots a Hoyt bow call. If you’d like to visit about their different models or visit Thank you to Phone Scope, the best camera optic adapter out there. Phone scope makes high quality phone cases and optics adapters. Visit phone to learn more. Stealth camm has high quality, durable trail cameras that we all love to use. Check them [email protected] or call us. To order today here at Epic Optics. We are a verified dealer for Swarovski Zeiss, Leica Vortex, stealth cam and more. Call us today to visit about the available optics we have and what would be right for you. Or visit epic for only 150 bucks a year. You get nine issues of the Epic Outdoors Magazine and unlimited access to our Hunt consultant, as well as access to our verified research website. To see all the other member benefits, visit epic If you hunt multiple states, our services are essential. The Epic Outdoors license application service is for you.

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If you ever miss deadlines or would like help developing your long, medium and license application goals, give us a call today at (435) 263-0777 to learn more.