In this episode we call our good friend Kyle Lopez, who was able to harvest a 306” Mule deer as a teenager. The crew also discusses the outlook of hunting in the western states and what factors affect big game the most.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:00:07 –> 00:01:27:24
You are listening to the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Check us [email protected]. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Adam Bronson. We got Josh in the house. We got John and we got Logan. Logan, are we still doing all right? Just another little welfare check. We’re still doing good. Okay. I’ve talked to your dad. I don’t think you’re right. I think smile on the smile on his face. Tells me all I need. Jason. We can drop it. He’s good. Drop, drop, drop. The has beens dropping and all that. All right. All right. I like it. So anyway, here we go. We’re cranking here at Epic Outdoors. It’s our second podcast in two days. Cranking it out like it’s our job. Of course, the last two weeks we haven’t done our job. People have been disappointed. Haven’t come out with enough podcast, but we’ve been grinding and speaking of grinding, we’ve been using every single day. I use our own website as far as, and this isn’t just a, a say in it. We actually do it and go through all the odds and whatnot as we’re consulting. I’ve had multiple guys even today talking about Colorado. Of course, Colorado. You’d think we’re kind of sick of it. I kinda like talking about Colorado. Really? Okay. Yeah, I do. Well, I like talking about, okay, I’ll tell the girls when we get over there to I’ll call for Colorado, go to you because I’m actually sick of it. I but it.

00:01:27:24 –> 00:02:25:29
But it is interesting. I had a guy today, which is interesting. Say, you know, he was a non-resident now becoming a resident and then leaving soon Whoa. Raises a flag. No, I wouldn’t, wouldn’t have meant that to anybody. But anyway, went through some of his resident odds and usually, you know, with the non-resident stuff, we kind of got that half memorized. Yeah. ’cause we’ve dealt with it so much. But the resident side of things, I’ll give you that. It’s nice to, when a guy calls you with 13 points as a resident, they got tons of, they can draw 95% dogs in the city. They’re, they’re gonna kill a big one. 78. Yeah, that’s right. Well, the, the thing that’s nice about it too is, you know, you can, you have an idea or you remember in your mind know, you’re kinda like, I’ve got 16 points. We’ll get you this roughly in Colorado. You know, you just kind of, some of the, the units and point levels you remind, but a guy says, Hey, I’ve got 17 points. And instead now I just grab it, pull it up really quick, type in 17. So if I’m as if I’m just him looking at it too. And so you can be like, this is exactly what you can do. Or a minimum point search.

00:02:25:29 –> 00:03:38:17
Maybe there’s something there that I haven’t thought about because Yeah, because in Colorado we’ve seen some units come down from what they were That’s right. Three years ago or, and then that point level was kind of stuck in my mind. Actually, no, it doesn’t take eight anymore. It took five this year. Well, and this year with a further reduction in non-resident caps, guy’s a resident up. Yeah. His resident odds are actually gonna get better. And so non-residents are gonna get a little worse probably across the board in general. On average, yeah. Residents should get a little better. But the fun thing, like what you’re talking about, Josh, the fun thing about Colorado is, and we notice that you can see that in the two or three year analysis. Wow. That’s for some reason you get a few people that drop out or change their mind or whatever. Maybe the state of the nation address one tough year or whatever looks tough. Yeah. But anyway, in celebration of 300 and freaking some odd podcasts and talking about Colorado deer, I was thinking maybe we give Kyle Lopez a holler. He killed a freaking monster back in the day when we killed chief in Arizona. 2007, 306. Remember he basketball shorts in the back of a truck and he split 13 and a half, 14 years old. We got questions. Yeah. So anyway, we, it was like a 3 0 6 buck and we were thinking about the 306 podcasts.

00:03:38:17 –> 00:05:11:06
Turns out yesterday was 3 0 7 Logan, we blew right by 3 0 7. We’re just not preparing. We’re not preparing ourselves very, we’re just, we’re getting here. We suck randomly. And without thinking about the ramifications of blowing by something way too fast. Instead of talking about a 306 inch elk, let’s talk about a 306 inch mul there anyway. Which is crazy. ’cause a lot of the things we do in this office are pretty planned and methodical. Nothing’s just, you know, everything off a crap. Nothing’s a crap show. Yeah, exactly. Everything’s well planned thought out, Josh. Very methodical, very slow. You know, methodical. We just, nothing just comes up. We should talk about people’s desks and their thought processes. I know Adam’s organi like at 10 0 8 I can have my first monster, but I start off with a V eight and I start that at 7 0 3 something until I need more. Until I need more. And he has a clean desk. My desk not so clean. Josh is worse. It’s true. Alright, well let’s give Kyle a call. I just wanna hear an old, old time, big old dear story from Colorado and then we will talk. John, let’s dive in to, I know you’ve been utilizing our epic odds tools for hunts of your own and whatnot, and maybe that’ll take us to a new state. So let’s give Kyle a hollerer. Hello, Kyle. Jason Carter, Bronson. We got Pollock here and the Epic outdoors crew. How are you?

00:05:11:27 –> 00:06:12:15
Good man. How are you guys? Doing? Good. Really good. How’s you guys recover from that big snowstorm week or so ago over in Colorado? Man, we’re, we’re trying to, it’s, it’s been a wreck up there at the Family Ranch. Grandpa recorded over 63 inches. Geez. Yeah. Yeah. It took us like a week just to get to him. Really. It happens once in a while where you guys get a storm, like we’re talking Isn’t this like once a decade type? Yeah, it was one of those, yeah. You know, I mean, grandpa’s 80 years old and he’s lived on that ranch his whole life and he said he’s never ever seen a storm like that in his lifetime. Geez. It just sat over you guys and churned and kind of counterclockwise wrapped over just didn’t even the, the snow, the blue didn’t even move for like three, four days. Yeah. It seemed like. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it was insane. And, and we already had probably three feet on the ground, you know, so you had over five feet and now they’re calling for a storm coming in Sunday to drop potentially another foot. Holy cow. Wow.

00:06:13:01 –> 00:07:14:28
Well, I remember back in the day, Bronson and I were talking about this a while back, but there was a time I was going out on the eastern plains and they clo they closed down the, what was it, I 25, they closed it down and we had to move the cones to just keep going. And then you and an old Brancher, right? Yeah, rancher and I, we like, we rolled up, we rolled up to the cones and we’re like, and he looks at me and I look at him and like, you’re not stopping a, I’m a kid at the point, at that point in life with a four wheel drive. Yeah. With a four wheel drive and chains. And if, you know, with four chains and a kid, you’re gonna get in trouble. And he’s looks at me and he goes, I’ll go if you go. And if we get in trouble, we get in trouble, we’re in this together. And I’m like, right on. Let’s freaking go. And anyway, it made it out there, but it turned out like they would, they would have Black Hawk helicopters delivering and I, I think it was Yeah. Hay to cattle, you know, cattle that were stranded and stuff. I mean, it was one of those kind of storms. Yeah, yeah. I mean it, it was kinda the same for us. I mean, that was actually, grandpa was fine. You know, we weren’t as worried about him.

00:07:15:00 –> 00:08:30:22
We were worried about our cattle because we’re, you know, we were in the middle of Calvin time and thankfully they’re all fine, everything’s good. And they made it through. Well back in that storm. You know, Kyle, you’d have been about seven probably. But we wanted to talk about when you were, I don’t know what age you were when you smashed that absolute giant. Of course we’re in our 300th series of podcasts. We didn’t miss Somehow missed 3 0 6 was thinking about having you on at 3 0 6. But anyway, just kind of wanted to talk about, we kind of thinking about Colorado ’cause the application deadline’s coming up and then anything can happen even, even in tough Times. And Colorado once in a while we, we dream about these absolute giant deer and just kind of wanted to hear the story on your Big o dear if you can remember it. I’m not sure if you can remember a deer like that, but it’s far, it’s long enough ago that he, you know, 17 years ago he was only what, how old were you? 14, 15. I I, I was 14 when I killed. 14. And that’s 17. So over half your life ago. What do you remember about this? Huh? And I was just curious, I was just curious about that camel pattern. Is that Russell champion and one, what was, what was the basketball, were they basketball shorts?

00:08:30:24 –> 00:09:37:07
I mean, what were they And one, is that what that was? You know, the worst part about that everybody always gives me grief for that is, you know, we didn’t get back to my dad’s truck with that buck until like midnight. And the next day was a school day. Oh, I, I believe, yeah, it was a, it was a Friday, so we actually had a football game that night and I was thinking dad was gonna let me sleep in and everything. Oh no. He rousted me out of bed that morning. He’s like, Hey, let’s go. You’re going to school. I’m thinking I only got to sleep for like five hours. Dad. Man, I got a football game today. Yeah, well call that the, you’re in the Colorado, so that’s the buffalo black. The buffalo black camo is what we got. Colorado buffalo. So the picture we’re looking at, yeah. Is you in the back of a truck of rigor, mortis, buck breaking daylight and, and you’re in, you know, got some, anyway Jordans or something on there. Something on, you know. Yeah. That, that was basically dad saying, Hey, put some clothes on to go to school. I’m gonna take your bucket and go skin it out, but let’s snap a quick picture before you go to school. Yeah. And that’s what everybody gives you a hard time that you were just, you know, rolling in and Jordan’s and it caught out a buffalo sweatshirt.

00:09:37:07 –> 00:10:43:29
I thought that too. I thought that’s what you were hunting in. I I, I mean just from seeing stuff out there on whatever, I don’t know if we had social media, those are the pictures we’ve No, there was no, yeah. You know, it’s funny you actually mentioned that. I, I was at a show earlier this year and I had the buck with us in our booth and I actually had a kid come up talking to me and he was like, man, how are you not instant famous? Like, how have I never seen this? And I said, man, when I killed that buck, it didn’t even exist. I said, we used to use what was called a forum and that kid looked at me like, what is that? Oh four of we used to years. Wasn’t MySpace popular at some point in history back then? Yeah. Yeah. I mean I, I think like our social media back in those days, you guys remember was monster mealy, you know? Yeah. Couple forums and that was it. That’s Boite and Monster Mealy and, and everybody just texted and viral tech text viral lived on forever. Exactly. Brutal times. Yeah. Well, so tell us the quick story. I guess. I mean, I, I, you know, did you know about the deer? Didn’t know about the deer? Total luck? I mean, tell us, tell us the story on the deer.

00:10:44:18 –> 00:11:45:09
Yeah, so I mean, it started out, you know, that was the third rifle hunt. I remember we’d gone out, I actually had my uncle with me and dad and he had the tag at the same time and he’d never killed a buck. And on like day two of that season, we had kind of hunted that evening and dad was like, you know, we’re just gonna cruise back and kind of road hunt our way back home since we didn’t find what we were looking for. Well, I’ll be Dogg gone if we’re cruising back and we look down in this bottom and just see this gorgeous typical down in the bottom. And dad’s like, man, that’s a good buck. You know, one of you two needs to shoot it. And I looked at my uncle and I’m like, you know, you never got to kill a buck. Like, he was just fresh outta college. And so I said, you know, Joe, you’ve never got to kill a buck. You might as well go shoot him. And so he went down there and smashed that deer and we ended up getting it taken care of. And that, that buck was actually like a 1 97 and some change. Is that in the truck? There’s a picture on the web. Web. Is it, is he with the buck? With your buck? Yeah. Yeah. So there’s one where like that one 90 buck is all, you know, caped out and everything.

00:11:45:09 –> 00:12:53:15
And then my buck is right next to it and I think my dad’s holding it or something. Yeah, it looks big. It looks, yeah. Maybe even super heavy, maybe even bigger than one deer like that in Colorado these day and age. They they go viral. Yeah. Oh, those are the biggest in state that typical right there. That’d be biggest in state right now. Anyway. But, so he smashed the buck and he’s, that he’s done but you had four, five days to hunt or whatever. Exactly. So he’s done, we actually go out the next day and go up that exact same drainage that we ended up killing the 300 in and we we’re cruising up that drainage and dad’s like, you know, I don’t like this ridge. We need to pop over this next ridge. ’cause once we get in the basin, we can see better. We pop over that ridge and, and I’ll remember this buck till the day I died, this buck had to have been pushing like 34, 35 inches wide. And he was laid down in the bottom and he jumped up and he kind of took off down the drainage. I got three shots off at him. But, you know, running and everything. This is a different deer. This is not your deer this No, this is not. And you were, were you, so I I I guess Jason needs to know how the deer’s built. I, I have questions.

00:12:53:16 –> 00:13:55:29
You gotta tell him how the deer’s built where he can’t move on pipe. I wanna know how many I guards pipe mass. 35 y triple I guards. But what I, I guess were you slow rolling the pines? ’cause Wyatt would call that slow roll in the pines if you’re just kind of, you’re kind of cruising on on the access roads in that country. Yeah, well, so when we ran into that buck, what we had done is we drove, we parked, and then there was this big basin up against like the end of like at the bottom of a mountain basically. Okay. And it always held a lot of deer. And that’s where dad was wanting to get to is get up to our glassing point, start watching that basin. Makes sense. And we just happened to run into that, that really big wide buck, like kind of going up that direction. We got a one 90, we got a 34 inch here, we got a one 90 and we got a 3 0 6. We’re trying to keep track of the 3 0 6. Almost, almost didn’t happen if he would’ve killed this book. 3 0 6 almost didn’t. Or we’d be talking to somebody else right now. Geez. Absolutely. So, so yeah. So I missed that buck. Then of course you can imagine a 14-year-old kid. I’m down on myself like no other, well, school’s starting, so I gotta go back to school and football and all that.

00:13:55:29 –> 00:14:56:21
So go through most of the week. I remember we did our walkthrough. It was either a Wednesday or a Thursday and then, no, sorry, we did a practice and then our walkthrough was supposed to be the next day. And dad actually pulled me outta school early and surprised me. He showed up and he’s like, Hey, I’ve got basic backpack. You’re hunting, close your gun. We’re going, we’ve gotta get out there before dark. Are you looking for, at this point, looking for that specific, the wide buck again? Is that kind of what you’re going back looking for? Yep, yep. That’s what dad had thought. He is like, you know, that Buck’s had three or four days to calm down, let’s get back up in there and try to go get him. So we cruise out there, we jump out of the truck. I remember my dad like throwing me a water bottle and a box of bullets. He goes, put that in your pack. We gotta go. And I mean, we’re sprinting basically trying to get to this spot. And we get up there close to where we’d seen him. So we kind of start moving slow and everything and we’re not seeing him or anything. And then dad’s like, well, maybe he’s up in that basin. So we pop out into the basin and dad actually wanted to go south, which would’ve been to the on left.

00:14:57:07 –> 00:16:08:09
And he turns and looks and there’s like 15 dos. They’ve got us pinned, they’re staring us down, no buck or nothing with them. Dad’s like, dang it. Well he goes, I guess we’ll work the north side of the basin. And all he does is turn around and at 180 yards on the ridge across from us, we see a buck standing there. And dad, you know, get down. So I get down and we’re looking him over and we were hunting in that old burn up there. Everything’s black in the background that deer had on him. You couldn’t see any of the trash or nothing. You could just see a giant frame. And I think what threw it off was, you know, he’s got those flyers and everything that if you measure those on the farthest outside of my buck, he’s 37 inches wide. I think that’s what made my dad, dad goes, there he is, that’s him. So I set up, shot him at 180 yards, he dropped. And I remember we walk over there, we get there, this is craziest story. 34 enter turns to 37 multiple bucks. I I’ve got some questions. I mean, sheds unit, I mean, we got somewhere where are the sheds to all these bucks? Like, all right, keep going. So anyways, we get over there and I remember he’d fallen into a mountain mahogany bush.

00:16:08:16 –> 00:17:13:12
And I remember telling my dad, I’m like, dad, that bush is all tangled up in his antlers. And he’s like, yeah, it kind of looks that way. And I remember dad picking his head up out of that mahogany and I was just like, what did I just like, what is this thing? Wow. Wow. You know, like it was just the bush covering up was the buck. The buck the buck. Yeah. The buck was the bush too. Yes, exactly. So yeah, I mean that’s level, let that happen to us once in a while. Wow. Geez. So then, I mean, what a moment you and dad, I mean, his light guard split, that’s a shooter no matter what’s above it for most other bumps, you know, these days. But I mean, that’s a moment you and your dad freaking out. I I mean, just, I mean, surreal, you’re young, you’re, maybe it’s your first second. Did you know, did I mean, did you know what you had? Or was it more like, this is a dang nice one. Geez. Never seen one like it. But yeah, I mean, for, for me, I, I was blown away. I was like, I, I’d never seen anything like that in my life. I, I, I didn’t even know what to say. And I mean, I think my dad, my dad kind of had an idea.

00:17:13:19 –> 00:18:26:00
I know, you know, now when we, we reminisce about it and talk, he’s like, you know, the first thing came to my mind. Dad was like, I was thinking like 2 50, 2 60, you know, with his guiding experience. He kind understood that. And never in our wildest dreams did we figure we were gonna be that far off. Wow. It just keeps adding up. So how far off were you? We’ll, maybe give us a few statistics on him. Official. Yeah. So like I said, my dad had him guess at like 2 50, 2 60. I remember when dad got him home, the outfitter that he worked for at that time was like, man, we need to score. So they scored him up in the original, like the very first score that dad in the outfitter came up with was 3 0 7 net with a three 14 gross. Hmm. And you know, they, they were kind of, they didn’t really know what to do. Even my dad was like, look at the outfit. He’s like, what do we do with this thing? I don’t even dare say that. Wow. What’d we do wrong? Yeah, yeah, let’s do that again. Doesn’t have three beams. What did we do wrong? This is not an elk. I, I remember that, that, that outfit guy that was there, he tells my dad, he goes, just keep quiet. I’m gonna make some calls to some, you know, people I know.

00:18:26:06 –> 00:19:41:22
And he goes, but just don’t tell anybody about this. Yeah. Don’t tell anybody. Don’t answer your phone. I’ll take care of it all. Pretty much. I Where did you see the other wifi? Because now you’re done. Where’s 34? Oh wow. So anyway, did, where did he official at? Do you So, hi. His official was 3 0 6 and three eights net. And I, the, the gross was like three 11 something. Yeah, yeah. Hey, we should have waited three podcasts and got it on 3 0 3. We could’ve done that. We could’ve done the three 11. We thought we were late. But just label this, the three 11 people think they missed net. We’ll save it, we’ll save it for a month and publish it on three 11. No, just kidding, Kyle, we’re gonna go home this, there you go. Quick. But wow. That’s, that’s awesome. Awesome. How big, do you remember how big his frame is? The four point frame net it out or roughly or the frame? Yeah. So his frame was 2 0 1 and some change. Wow. Sold. So he is a hundred, 110 inches of trash. 10 inches of trash. Oh yeah. Yep. There were long flyers, fork and cheaters. Multiple fork and cheaters guards. Fork di guard mean? Oh no. So sorry. Actually, now that I’m thinking about that, I’m backwards. His frame is actually 2 0 7 ’cause he is got 99 inches. There you go. 2 0 7, like we talked about net frame, basically. Yeah.

00:19:41:22 –> 00:20:59:18
And net the frame. Net the frame at 2 0 7. So his frame’s two 10 or 14 or something like that. Probably. I mean, gross. Beautiful. The, the most perfect deer ever built. I mean you got a giant four point frame. Giant I guards big mass, even a drop time, you know, kind of coming off the beam and then basal points, which are amazing. And then you got big old fork and flyers, bladed eye guards. I mean it doesn’t have any, nothing. It doesn’t have, well one thing I’m not seeing a 10 inch in line. Yeah. They’re all stickers. I like inlines. Is there a bonafide inline on that? Yeah, that’s that’s right. I found a fault. Oh that is a once in a century type deer right there. Yeah. For not, it’s one thing to kill people. Say you killed two eighties, two nineties, whatever. And then they end up stripping the velvet and they come down a little bit. Or this thing’s hard horn, freaking bone grossing in the book over 300. Yeah, yeah. You know? Pretty awesome. Did it ruin you or did it just, I mean obviously you’re still hunting aggressively, but, you know, maybe it just lit the fire. Maybe it didn’t ruin you. I don’t, I don’t know. You, you know, I, I wouldn’t say that it ruined me. It, I mean, it, it probably, if anything it fueled my passion for mule deer and everything.

00:20:59:19 –> 00:21:58:04
And, and the other thing that I’ve always said to is I was like, it, I guess it took the pressure off. You know, I don’t have to Yeah. I don’t have to get in the woods and try to get that great big monster. I already got him now. Yeah. Never gonna beat that. Stay home. Help the rest of us. Yeah, right. Did. So tell us a little history. It, see, I’m just going vaguely. I remember hearing that somebody picked up sheds to the, to your deer. Is that, is there any validity to any of that? You know, so there, there was a guy that had picked up a set of sheds. It, it was kind of interesting because he, he was so secretive about it. I, and I can’t remember that guy. It was so long ago. But he would never tell us where he found the sheds. And, and we, we kind of compared him and everything. Actually, the guy that was the Boone and Crockett scorer on mine, he compared everything. And he was, he was like inconclusive. He said, you know, he goes, they could be from this deer. He said they’re, they’re missing a lot of what he called like signature points that he felt that deer would’ve carried, you know, throughout his whole life. Big eye guard. But you know what, stuff like that. Yeah.

00:21:58:04 –> 00:23:12:11
Like one thing he said, he goes, you know, these could be sheds from three, three years previous. He’s like, I, I just don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember cut cutting his tooth or otherwise his age at all? Do you remember that? Yeah. So the, the taxidermist actually they tooth aged him out at eight and a half. Yeah, okay. Prime as he get right there. Yeah, it is, it is six to nine. Yeah. You know, they can be their biggest at six or even whatever, five and a half. But you get six to nine, you, you just get, you’re in the window. And all the other environmental factors and physical factors, you come off a, you know, they even say the year they’re born if they were, you know, early, late, sometimes just not all deer can even grow that. But that’s, that’s a specimen right there. Well and you know, it’s, it’s kind of funny you said that. So we had talked with a local biologist about it and everything and he was saying, he’s like, you know, the timeframe that we hunted that deer in that old burn up there, he said that that was like the perfect timeframe. ’cause that burn was in the stage of the regeneration where a lot of the, the shrubs and the grasses and everything were coming back at a 14% protein synthesis. So he is like, he know just the young, this deer was getting phenomenal food.

00:23:12:12 –> 00:24:36:15
And he goes, it could have made him blow up just because Yeah. On top of genetics, on top of age, you just had the perfect deer at the perfect age with the perfect feed. Yeah. Yep. And you were the no harsh winners. I mean, nothing. Just Right. Well, it’s pretty special. He is always gonna be one of the bucks. We always, when we still leave the house hoping to find, even though you found him early on. What, any other big deer stories, I mean obviously you guys are, are big deer hunters and have been part of multiple 200 inch type deer. But any other family favorites? Oh man, you know, God, one of my favorite too was in 2019 and 2020, God, my dad was just, he was on a roll at that timeframe actually. Sorry, 18, 19 and 20. He killed a big high eighties buck in 18, or no, sorry, it was a low eighties buck. And then he came back in 19, same area, like 20 yards difference. And dad kills a high eighties buck. Wow. Roll into 2020. We got a big, I don’t know if you guys remember that big snowstorm that hit in September here in Colorado. Oh yeah. But we had that big snowstorm hit and I actually, I killed a bull on September 8th. And then on the ninth dad was like, Hey, let’s go out and go see if we can find a buck.

00:24:36:15 –> 00:25:57:24
So we go cruising out there and I kid you not, same area again. We’re talking maybe a hundred yards difference. And dad smacks a 1 92 in that same spot. Geez. I mean he just, for whatever reason, that spot was on fire and dad went on a roll. But is there, I mean, can we book a hunt with your dad? Dad? I’d tell you that. My dad’s the big buck slaying guy. He really is. Oh, that’s awesome. All right, well we appreciate you being on, we just kind of wanted to, I don’t know, reminisce about some of the good old days. It, it’s tough out there right now, obviously, you know, there’s some bright spots here and there and, and you, you try to stay on top of it and whatnot. But anyway, it’s nice to talk about a throwback giant. Yeah. That you killed. So ab absolutely. Alright, well appreciate it Kyle. Thanks a lot. Fun stories. Thanks. So thanks guys. You guys enjoy your day and have was good chatting. You. You too, too, man. Have a great weekend. Alright, see you guys. Okay, see you later. Bye. Geez, take that off. I can’t look at that anymore. Logan. Go to our website. That’s, it’s just one of those deer you’ll never, never get it outta your mind. But anyway, pretty special. Pretty fun. Pretty fun. Well, yeah. All right, let’s talk about a, an amazing state, Utah.

00:25:58:18 –> 00:27:22:28
Okay John, let’s dive into some of our features there on the Epic Outdoors website. We’ve got a member’s feature only feature. Basically you can log in if you’re a member here, $150 a year, get you a monthly magazine December through June, bimonthly the remainder part of the year. ’cause we’re in the field and the odds and and whatnot are all basically over. You got some point only application deadlines. Texas, Arizona, bison, a few little things like that. But anyway, as a member you can log in and then it unlocks drawing odds and whatnot. Information guided hunts a a bunch of different things. eag the electronic version of our magazine, which all of ’em are on there. But, but anyway, one of our favorites is just the odds for all, all units, nearly all units. I don’t know, maybe there’s a obscure analyst stuff or whatnot that we don’t include. But sorry, sorry, but not, sorry. We’re not gonna put statistics out there for dropping bombs on moms on every little state, right Bronson? Yeah, we, we can only pay a guy so much time to put odds on there. You can stop where you’re gonna do black bear and Turkey and Swan odds go, you know, sage grouse applications. Hey, I mean there’s odd crane sand, hill sand crane. I mean there’s always another species, Jason, so you gotta draw the line somewhere. Okay. That’s all. I’m, we drew some lines. Yeah, that’s right.

00:27:23:26 –> 00:28:37:19
And you’ll have agreed, right Bronson, we agree. If we like it, you’d like it. But anyway, go on there and you can check everything out. And it makes it nice. You can only the magazine’s a print publication, we do, you know, quite a, the lion’s share of the highlighted units and whatnot and units you’d be interested in are in the publication. But for every little thing and just to get on and screw around when you’re at work, of course when you’ve clocked out or on your lunch break on your 15 minute breaks. That’s right. That’s right. We don’t have any state road workers on our website during work time. But John, you were recently using this, so I Yes. And I wanted to just go through this exercise. Somebody else might be able to learn from it. But there’s, there’s some applications you’re really studying odds and you’re looking at your options and blah blah blah. And then there’s others where you’re so far away from drawing that you don’t look random odds is all that. Yeah. You’re caring about. And so this happened for desert sheep in Utah. That’s my once in a lifetime what I’m applying for. And this year I’ve got 22 points. So I finally thought I’m, go see how close I am. You know, the, the, the max is probably, you know, 25, 26 or whatnot.

00:28:38:03 –> 00:29:53:11
So I jump on and, and I’ll walk through this and you guys tell me if I’m wrong, but so last year I went in with 21. Right. That’s ’cause we’re looking at 2023 odds because that’s the only thing there is. ’cause it’s in the past. So you, you realize this exercise is going sober you a little. Yes. Well yes. It already it did. So I just, so we’re also Yeah, John doing Gloo podcast. We’re talking other units Jason, because 20 years does not entitle you to a desert sheep tag John. But now you know where some of the vendetta he has about youth drawing tacks with one or two points comes scrump. Now we know. Okay. And we’ll get into that a little bit. ’cause I need to clarify my position there. I’ve been taking a little heat, but you have been Yeah. Better you than us. We never take heat broon. No, no, never. Of course. We should talk about some heated subjects here shortly. We, we might. Okay. All right. Dive in John. So if I’m, if, if you guys tell me if I’m wrong, but if I look at this guy Drew with 28 and the guy drew with, with 26 points last year. So in the max point pool, this particular a caproic unit resident. Yes. And there’s for instance, two tags, right? Is that right? Per year? Two, two max point tags. Two random tags. Two. Right. Not last year.

00:29:53:16 –> 00:31:04:04
A total of four. Right. But two. Two is the only ones you can for sure take out right. Every year. Yeah. Off the, I feel like I want to drive Bronson, do you ever feel like you wanna grab the mouse for Logan and drive? That’s right there. But anyway, alright, keep going. So take those guys out and count up everybody who’s ahead of me. It ends up being 54 tags. 54 50 people. 54 people are left above you right now. Now me. And they’re taking two a year out. So divide 54 by 2 27 years before I guarantee is where John think John, John, this John’s not quite well but is he taken into account how many names he has in the hat versus zero point guy or 1.9? No, he’s just talking people above. But our odds do take that into account before he would say, this is my year. He’s just saying, when can I be in the maximum Es let’s just point pool. That’s what he’s doing. Let, let’s say Kate, not counting people die. Let’s say Kate didn’t have any desert sheet points. So she went in, she’d have a 0.02%, 0.02. Oh right, right. And you have a 0.51 Yes. Because of your points. Yes. But just if you’re, you’re so you’re saying there’s a chance. Yeah. Well he’s got one and 200. So there there is a chance. That’s one and 200. That’s pretty good odds. No, come on.

00:31:04:21 –> 00:32:05:25
Anyway, let’s help John here. Just sometimes in your head you think, oh yeah, of course. I’m at 22 points. The max is 26. I’m, that’s not that far. I’m getting, I’m making some progress. When you go to our website, you can see how many people, individuals, people are on each tier. Yes. And this is in every state. This is Colorado. This is, you know, people like Colorado Elk, they realize I’m only a point away. Well, or two points away from John. One of the 2 10, 2 0 1 hunts. Well that might be the same number of people. And they’re taking five outta year. Five in to 50, 10 years. Okay. Plus a couple people might pass away. And to add onto that, yes. When we talk about this daily is a guy will say, well I have six points and it says I had a 50% draw with six last year. Well no, you had five. You you had five in that state, you had five last year. So look at your five point tier. ’cause all those guys are coming up through like John’s doing, he’s plugging himself into the 21 point too. Counting everybody from 22 up. No, he has 22. Yeah. And that’s not counting the 22 people that are in my same street. Yeah. So then even in 20 and even in 27 years, then you’ve got your guys, assuming everybody plays the same and doesn’t die or doesn’t give up or whatever.

00:32:06:00 –> 00:33:14:10
So the point being, John, what are you saying? Yeah, what are you saying John? I may need to look at my Yeah. Other options. Other options. So let’s look at some other options. We’re committed to do that. We are committed to. Are you wanting to drive or you want Logan? I don’t know. John, you look at this, applications are going down. Yeah, we got an application trend on our website and death is probably my best friend here. You know, people dying. Yeah. You well you’re 50 ish and it’s easy to say because you’re alive and kicking right now. Right. I know other people dying is gonna increase my odds more than anything else. There is no promise for tomorrow, John. And this 14-year-old right here. Not your friend. That 14. So that 14-year-old had two points that drew a attack. And then there’s, and then there’s another 19-year-old that drew the other random text. This is a clean podcast, but I wanna say ba ba we don’t know their age. Okay. Okay. And let’s talk about that. I joke a little bit and play the devil’s advocate that you know, anyone under 30 should not draw your John. Those were true feelings John. So so lemme clarify. You were, you had to take a half a day off. Let’s get the official position statement. Not true of JP himself. Logan was like, man, no, no youth tags at all. Huh? I was like, Logan’s over here.

00:33:14:29 –> 00:34:16:19
I just want a little general tag judge. And what, what will you allow me to have? Can, can I have one King John? I am talking what sheep tags. Can you allow me to have sheep tags? No one under sheep only is what you’re saying? Yeah. All the deer and elk tags for you. Well let’s face it, kids wouldn’t appreciate ’em. That’s that’s where that’s my, but hey, we just talked to a 14-year-old kid that appreciated a 3 0 6. That’s a deer. And he has a lifetime of memories because of it, John. That’s right. Yeah. That’s a deer. He thinks about it. Dave bonded him and his dad early on. That 14-year-old as a sheep has no idea what he just shot. No, it’s a spike. Yeah. The only, he does not appreciate Spike. The, the only good thing about those numbers is we talk to a lot of these guys every year in all these different states and it gives you some hope. It does what it does. Ah, yeah. Yeah. It keeps the states flush with somebody’s gotta get this like that. That movie Dumb and Dumber. You saying, I got a chance and I got a chance. So let’s, let’s, can we run a minimum points query on Desert Sheep for 22? Does anything happenings anything happen? I don’t know. I think I have an idea of what might come up. And John, I don’t think you’re gonna want to do this minimum.

00:34:16:22 –> 00:35:25:07
I can wait to minimum. I don’t wanna wait 27 years. You know what I’m talking about. Oh yeah, no. Yep. So just, just type in, type in 21 to 22. Just or or eight. Well you’re in or eight let 18. 18. Because there might be, there’s one in, so when we, there’s a unit so we’re doing a minimum. That’s the what I was thinking of. You don’t want to touch that archery Dirty devil John. Well there’s some bits of people do it. You want, are you in bro? I’m not in, there’s sheep out there and there’s been people do it. I could have shot one with bow there in last, last year. No problem. Yeah, I mean but there’s been people that have had problems on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dirty devil archery. John, that’s So John, the state of Utah would say, John, you have choices. Yeah, I have. You have choices. Draw that and go ahead. You know, you want a sheep tag or not. So there you have did a minimum points query. I can wait a little, we call it at a minimum point square. But basically you would go in for, let’s say Colorado deer, whatever it is. And when a guy calls in and says, I have five points, I usually go two or three to six. Yeah. ’cause on our website when you say to six, it’s a percentage with five generally. Yeah. And then guaranteed with six.

00:35:25:16 –> 00:36:35:12
And so I go two to six or two to seven and say, okay, here’s your options. And then right off the bat you have a list and it says 2, 3, 5, 6, 7. And you can say, well if you wanna wait a couple years, this one took seven. If you wanna draw now, you could go here or you’re a percentage chance 50 50 this year. And like we started talking about earlier with the changes in Colorado this year with the majority of the non-resident unit quoted being reduced from 35% that told the 25 that you’re gonna, you’re gonna have to look on some of the lower, it’s not gonna be, you’re gonna probably see some units be tougher. So set your minimum number a little bit lower. Residents, you might actually put at a point higher than you current. Current have now or two points higher just to see what might be in play this year. As your odds might get in some cases a little bit better. And the units that are affected from this new quota system of saying, what did it take an resident, an average of six points over the last three years minus last year, yada yada. This whole formula, it’s indicated with a plus in the regs. And you can see with those units that will be affected, that will have less non-resident tags available. More residents. Yep. Anyway, anyway. Play around until your heart’s content. But, but it’s on there.

00:36:35:12 –> 00:37:46:16
It it is fun to play. I love this system. You can do this in Utah. Can user friendly can do this in what? All the states that give a percent. Yeah. A percentage of their permits to the high point holder you can play on. Play around in, let’s plug in. Let’s say he had, let’s go 21 to 24 points. Yeah. Let’s, let’s give it some hope. Oh, go back Logan. This is where I want to drive, right? 24. Yeah. I I couldn’t be a backseat driver with Logan. I’d have to just kick him out of the driver’s seat. I tried to look around Josh’s head here. It’s my fault. Well, whoa. Things change John. Dude, things change. You got a Henry Mountains option, John at 23 points that would whoa click on that. Henry Mountains. Whoa. Something happened. Something happened. I don’t know what, what number you temped in because we got, well we got 20 sevens and stuff down here popping up. What did you type in? There we go. There we go. There’s touch the Henry Mountains right there. Scroll down a hundred percent. Draw with 23. There’s 5.5 guys with 22 and three point guys that were in your tier. John. Yeah. So lot if I, if I changed my plan and you would get one. Yeah, you would get one. It would be a grind. Yeah. But you would kill a sheep. Yeah. So I killed it.

00:37:47:01 –> 00:38:50:23
11 or 12-year-old ram there last year. John, I show you pictures if you’d like. Yeah. And it was actually a guy that was kind of a great story actually. Bron, we’re not telling that story. Okay. But it was good enough. I love that story. Good story. Good. All fun. And all fun was had by all. Alright, so scroll back. Let me look at a couple of others options just now that we’re into, is there like a potential to burn right there? Gear button. Do we need to add that to these sheep points? John, Mike, you might burn. Do we put the gear on the Henry’s? Depending, like do we need to have a tab for potentially, I think he would be fine percentage for burning gear to, we’re just gonna be a lot better at what goes in your pack to start with this time. John. Little bit, little bit different. So, and, and Logan. So I forget when we tell these stories that some people, I mean not everybody has know that one the background though. They know that one. Logan. But go ahead. Logan came, you know, after he’s like, you’re really burning all your gear. And I was like, okay. Well I, I did. I had an, I had a had it was life or death. I, it was, it was either burn gear, tease, don’t make it out. Tease. We teased about that ’cause So, so let’s preface a little bit.

00:38:51:20 –> 00:39:57:18
Did we, we teased John. I can’t remember how much because we were all there and we, and it was real for all of us. It was not easy for any one of us. And now we had a, a sheep even though he had a handful of us to split it up. You still got me Kate And, and John was Lauren’s, John was family. He’s married to my sister. Right. So at the time, and I love John, he’s basically my brother. So we have a picture of his family in one hand in Bronson. No less than a flask in the other, the go remember the package Goose that they, they had the little single serve that wasn’t good enough for John. He got got the flask. We got him a flask. When we got home, I was worried like, I’m like, if you od I mean John’s one of those guys. How fast can your heart beat? Yeah. Like isn’t how many beats per minute is the threshold of death? Isn’t that serving size based on weight and volume of body. Yeah. And metabolism. Metabolic rates and how fast you can burn off this goo before you keep squeezing and there’s a sands slide and it’s what it feels like. It’s a mile and a long. It’s like a mile. It’s not probably, but it’s probably a mile. It’s, and it’s up straight up. You know, it’s waiting for you the whole way.

00:39:57:24 –> 00:41:04:17
That’s what I was gonna say. Like I, unless you’ve seen that country been into that country, I mean there’s times spent time in a helicopter trying to flying sheep in that unit and have flown for As a biologist. Yeah. As a biologist. Flying sheep. And you do a two hour fuel cycle and don’t see ah, sheep. Yeah. And the amount of miles you cover. Yeah. It’s it’s literally, it’s so vast. You don’t, you don’t know you’re in there. How big and insane that country is. 16 mile. We’re talking the escali. We’re not talking to the Henry’s now. But this is an Escali trip and this, when this infamous account happened, I will add, I did make it back to the truck first. Oh yeah. Yeah. We, because you go have more goo waiting at the truck. Well John, when you don’t have a pack and you have a flask in your back, you’re gonna beat us. We’re dealing with sheet. And by the way, we didn’t, we didn’t waste an ounce of meat. It was hot at night. We would lay it out at night. It cools in the desert. It does. And cool it off. And then we were wrapping it in a space blanket, double space, blanket, sleep bags, all that in your pack. Put it in your pack and then go all day in the heat of the day. Lay it out at night. And we ate it each night.

00:41:04:19 –> 00:42:03:18
That was probably, it was awesome. One of my favorite memories. It’s awesome. We ate meat. We were in, what do you think John? We were stripped down to nothing. Almost. Almost. And just chilling out at night. It was so nice. I know the way out was way better than the way in. Well yeah, you’re 50 pounds lighter. Yeah. Which is not normally how it goes when you kill a sheep. No. How about the burger and Escali? Good burgers. There’s not burger. They could serve a cheese pizza and it would be the best food you’ve ever eaten. Geez. I remember, it’s funny when you say that. When I was with Russell, when he killed his sheep down there, it was just me and my brother. And we were clear up in there, you know, and same guy. It was not, we weren’t as deep as you guys. We luckily ran into sheep sooner, but it was still a couple days in. I remember it took us two, two and a half days to get where we were at where we killed the sheep. And we were sitting there and he’s like, all right you guys, it’s essentially all down sand. Yeah. Sand down to the lake and the boat and everything. He said, we can either do two things, we can just take our time and enjoy it up here and stay the night or really enjoy this experi or Yes.

00:42:03:20 –> 00:43:17:10
Or if we hurry and you guys really hike, we can make it back to bullfrog to a hamburger tonight. Hamburger fries, hotel rooms a hotel. Open a shower. I was a 16-year-old kid was, I had the experience. Was it Trevor? So he’s 18 ish. Yeah. So you had Oh, Russell was smart. Yeah. Take a two big 16. 18-year-old strapping. Oh yeah. Mules. It was actually a funny thing. Trevor, he called it Trevor was suspended from school at the time. What? Because that’s a podcast. Yeah. Wow. It was, I can’t remember all the details, but it had something to do with, was he in high school threat, an internet threat. Him and his friends had made to, it was like when President Clinton was coming to the Grand Stu Monument. The monument, that was a heed issue back here. Remember we showed ups everything down, make it a monument. And they, they typed a don’t come through pen witcher, we’ll burn you down. That was like 19 day, that was 95, 96. And they were seniors in high school. I his three friends. And they got on the internet. I mean it was early days of the internet, but others, they were suspended for three days. So Russell always joke. He’s like, I’m gonna take these boys into the wilderness and straighten ’em up. I’ll gonna straighten ’em up. I just have respect. Yeah. For the clan.

00:43:19:03 –> 00:44:23:07
So that’s why we, well no wonder of the reason why wonder to see him. He’s kind of in where’s as a mustache covers a lot curly and face. He’s got a lot of, doesn’t wanna be recognized on any, I’m not a fan of the Clinton’s, but I’m not sure I’d threaten their life. No, because I, I’m pretty sure Yeah, your life might be in danger. They can take care of stuff. Yeah. So anyway, it was supposedly a straightening out trip, but he just needed some help packing. I’ll take anyway, it from you anyway. I get what that burger burger means. It can be significant. There’s nothing like it. Well John, so at the end of the day you got options. We will, we will. We’ve got well in packing better, I would pack better. You, you know John, we talked about the tripod. I had one of a giant tripod with a video head. We’re talking 10 to 15 pounds now. We have tripods that are in the two to three pound range. Yeah, I was gonna say think about technology. And so our tripods, I mean, oh, I’d be taking one of those STCs call maybe. Yeah. I don’t know. You don’t need to count cheaters, pair of twelves, you know what I mean? You’re done. Instead of the fifteens, we probably, we we’re 30 something so we probably took tens and fifteens and spotters. Yeah. Back then.

00:44:23:07 –> 00:45:30:21
30 and everyone, let’s see, what was that, 2009? Not quite eight or nine. Yeah. 32 or 9 39 wasn’t it? Yep. 2008 or nine. 5,008. All I know I wasn’t man enough for 77 pound pack. So mine burn. Mine was mine. Like 92. You were, but you were doing nine nine and you’re taking 10 of food nine days. And I have a gun. Your wife was gone. So you’re like, here’s, here’s your question tent. How many bullets you’re taking? Yeah. Oh, usually it’s a box, right? Well you’re, you’re 20 miles in or whatever it is. Time. And you get in there and hike around a bunch. How many are you taking? Well that, ’cause if you fall and have to recite your gun at some point it’s a legitimate thing. Or you’re shooting, shooting off a cliff straight down and you end up Yeah. You know, missing a bunch. Well, I mean not a bunch, but I have had hunters that blew his head off ’cause I hit him in the neck. Yeah. Yeah. ’cause it was, yeah, before rain. Finding vinyl or angle compensating. Vinyl angle compensator. So you’re doing what every 30-year-old would elevation back in the day when you don’t know anything. Aim a little alone. Touch it off. Touch it off again. Have somebody hold your feet so you don’t fall over the cliff. That’s right. Yeah. Literally people holding their feet. Yeah. Another time when good times were had by all.

00:45:30:29 –> 00:46:36:25
Well, alright, so on the subject of Utah, Utah’s open, let’s do it, let’s break it down. And I mean we don’t have any cheat sheets or anything, but yeah, let’s talk about it. We love, we, we like Utah or home state gives you, I love what I love about Utah. I’m you gonna open it up Skews for everyone. Yeah. Special interest groups. I love to calling it special interest. And I will talk and I will talk about that because it gets, it kind of raises a hackle, you know? And I will talk about that from a non-resident perspective slightly. That that is not a good thing. Okay. Okay. In a couple of different ways. There are some residents out there that think why can’t we apply for all species? Well if you look at 15, 16 years ago, what happened when non-residents were allowed to apply for everything. You look at the odds for like even antelope people, nobody, nobody applying for antelope. Even if they don’t care about ’em. Because you can. And it’s cheap. That’s That’s right. And it doesn’t preclude you from doing elk. And they’re doing every once in a lifetime and they’re doing deer, elk, and antelope. Right. So non-resident odds. Resident odds are really bad. And we have to pick one once in lifetime and one limited entry. And they’re still very, very bad for that. Be careful what you wish for.

00:46:36:25 –> 00:47:38:25
If you say, I wish we could apply for everything ’cause everybody’s just gonna do it. And that doesn’t affect as residents, as residents and doesn’t affect improve your odds. The other thing that I was talking about, about skews gives you options and all that. We really saw this last year on the non in for elk, you look at most elk units in the state of Utah, we have an early archery, an early rifle, a muzzle loader, a mid rifle, all a late rifle, a late archery, and a late archery and a multi-season. Okay. Okay. So there’s seven SKUs. I like it. And we go to your first choice and then go to the next guy. So you choose one, but, but let’s say you have 50 tags on a unit and, and I, and I’m not advocating if you had ’em all in one pot, ’cause you know there are some states like Wyoming, they, most of them don’t even have archery. They just have, here’s the elk tax and that’s it. One, basically your point is you’re gonna have a certain amount of quota and you’re gonna divide it amongst all this states. Now you spread it out all over, all those pieces of pie. And for most non-residents, there’s like one tag with the good units. There’s one tag in every hunt, one tag, no max point tags. And that’s gonna go on a random.

00:47:38:28 –> 00:48:48:10
So now it’s really hard to compute your off, you can compute your s Oh yeah, but I’m talking to 26 and seven point orders left and right. Right now that, that were in the old early rifle muzzle loader and because of the splitting and redistribution of more of those tags to say the ear mid rifles, there’s not places to use ’em. If you felt like you have 26 or seven points vested, you can’t force the draw. If you were to stick the, I love being able to force the draw. We call it forcing the draw. Meaning just like what we talked about with John, John, you could force the draw. You have an option. You may not be an option. You want, you have a option, but you have an option. No more complaining. Okay. So, and that’s what we’re talking about especially works with, when you’re talking about deer, elk and antelope or other states, Colorado, you could force the draw preference point system. I can look at it and I can force to draw. That’s another reason we get so many questions because people are talking about stuff that are legit options. They will go hunting, make plans, take time off work, take their family, their family would draw whatever. And so Utah is not one of those states. You plan that way as much with limited entry, not as much for non-residents. Almost at all. Yeah. Non-resident wise. Not once in a lifetime.

00:48:48:12 –> 00:49:56:12
There’s very few of any of those five species. That’s right. You know, there may be one mountain goat unit, maybe, maybe bison unit offer no sheep, no no moose units that they give max point tags or maybe, maybe Wasatch, sorry, on the moose, but d but like a general deer, you’d look at it and maybe there would be options for non-residents, right? Yeah. So in a nutshell, you know, and, and you factor in that non-residents bumped it up to $120. What? $15 per species for $120 for a annual hunting license. $15 per species, you’re over 200 bucks. Pretty easy if you get, you know, a handful of species on there and you feel guilty if you don’t apply for anything of interest, right? Yeah. Like, it’s not like you’re gonna hold back because of the 15 bucks. We’ve kinda always said, if you’re gonna make the commitment to Utah back, it was 60, $65 for feels like ever for their hunting license. But if you’re gonna make that commitment, add all the species you’re interested in. But, and back in the day, to be fair, we were at the commission meetings, board meetings, whatever went back when they initiated that, and it was to justify the non-refundable hunting license for non-residents. They were worried they were gonna not have to get points for everything. Yeah. When they started making you buy a license, they were worried that the non-residents would stop.

00:49:57:01 –> 00:51:06:23
And so they said, why don’t we let ’em apply for all species and that might be the big enough carrot. And back then the odds were different than they are now. Things, things change a little bit. And so here we are with this system, which isn’t necessarily broken. I, I like the SKUs because there’s options and I like that you only can, you have to choose one choice. In Nevada, you get five choices and your odds are through the roof. Refer refers to if, if they went to one to two choices, it things would be different even for residents. And now I’ve got a little thing they’re proposing once in a lifetime, desert, sheep, sheep, sheep tags in general, once in a lifetime. Tags being, being once in a lifetime. In Nevada, you, a lot of people think naturally you think that’s a once in a lifetime species. And that’s the way it’s always been. It’s not been that way over there. And so residents, there’s been, residents have drawn three desert sheep decks. Well, I contend if they’d had one or two choices, the odds may have been good enough. No, I’m not saying they’re great, their sheep odds are never great, but maybe the odds would be different. And maybe the sentiment, the, the mentality would be a little bit different. Well, and you could maybe actually hunt and through the odds and our online hunt and find some better odds. Yeah.

00:51:06:25 –> 00:52:09:18
You know, sheep are always gonna be bad. Yeah. But maybe better odds deer or better odds antelope. You know, right now when everybody can throw five choices in for deer, a lot of people throw that first one or two. The, the best units in state, the two forties just gets annihilated with applicants because from a dream, from a guy in Reno, just because he’s heard that 24 is the best or, or knows that 24 is the best. But if you gave him one choice, he might hunt at home. He might. That’s right. You know, well, Josh, you’re, you’re quiet and, and I know in your mind you’re not quiet. He’s ready to, Josh thinks things and I wish, I wish they would come out because it’d make us all blush. We wish that, but until then, we hear him occasionally, we’re like, oh, oh geez. He went there, he went there. Where’s the women and where’s the women and children? What? Put them away. Put ’em away. Josh, what is it you’re reasoning about? We have to go back to editing podcasts as as we’re, as we, as we’re spewing, what have you been thinking? Hey everybody, thanks for listening to our podcast for this episode. We’re splitting it into two parts to help get it out a little bit faster. Part two will be up shortly after part one, so make sure to go give that a listen.

00:52:11:29 –> 00:53:38:28
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00:53:39:09 –> 00:54:53:10
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