In this episode the crew sits down with CVA VP of sales, Jason Sebo, and Head of Influencer Relations and Muzzleloading Expert, Tony Smotherman. This episode is for our listeners who want to make the most of each muzzleloader hunt. You’ll get expert advice straight from the source, as well as powder and bullet recommendations.
If you’re looking for your next muzzleloader head over to epicoutdoors.com for the best deals on CVA products!
Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.
00:00:00:22 –> 00:01:20:24
You are listening to the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Check us [email protected]. Hey everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Devon Archibald. Course. We’ve got Logan at the keyboard or whatever that is, just making sure we’re doing what we’re supposed to do. Right? Logan? Trying my best. Keep you guys in line. Trying to ma micromanage Adam and I I guess that’s, how’s that working out for you? That’s what I, it doesn’t work out very well, but it, I give it my best all. Keep try it. Just keep, don’t try too hard. Okay. We might have to replace you. I’m just teasing. You’re not going anywhere, Logan. We like you and appreciate you. All right. You’re gonna worry his mom start talking about, oh, I know. Well, you know what? I haven’t seen her, of his family. I haven’t seen her grace the doors of these officers for, well, some of his family. I think when Paul gangs up on him, I think they, well reach out and say, enough, enough. Enough is enough. Paul takes it. Two steps too far. Yeah. He plays county favorites and he does dis favorites. He talks crap on everybody. How he’s still walking without a leg broke is beyond on me. I know. Exactly. I wouldn’t wanna be him. No. But anyway, he’s not here to defend himself. So we’re talking about Yeah, that’s right. He’s actually on vacation for the 14th time. I want, well, I want the life of Pollock. Alright.
00:01:21:01 –> 00:02:25:11
I’m just giving him grief. ’cause we can. But anyway, this is kind of an interesting podcast. Of course, Bronson, we’ve been hunting with Muzz orders since the day we were born. I, I think I was probably had a muzz in one hand while they were changing my diaper. You know what I mean? Who’s, who’s changing your diaper? Well, 14 people have claimed they’ve changed my diaper fr friends and family. They knew you when you were Well, it, it’s kind of an inside joke here at the office. We’ve got guys, we’ve got guys out there, significant people in the division of Wildlife or whoever, because my dad was in the Division of Wildlife saying, I remember Jason when the hell was I changed his diaper on the grain river. No, he didn’t. And now you’re a grown don. Remember that Now I’m a grown man. How many people have changed my diaper? Quit talking about my diapers. I’m 49 years old. That right. Leave me alone. But anyway, we have been shooting muzz since we were little kids. Well, and when we were young blokes, they, they allowed us to hunt with muzzle loaders on the general tag. You could, you could get a general, it was a dedicated hunter tag. When you had a general tag. You’d hunt archery if you didn’t kill, and a rifle if you didn’t kill. And you could hunt that late muzzle, which now is a limited entry.
00:02:25:19 –> 00:03:36:11
All these units, that was like the normal muzzles that was just now people were burning 14, 15 points for that. Yeah. And so, and we had nothing. What we have now, we had literally Woodstock Hawkins with percussions round balls. Remember? Maybe some buffalo bullet. Remember when I was a little older, a little, the night MK 85 kind of revolutionized the white and the knight. Yeah. I wasn’t as, as into it. My brother Aaron was, he killed his very, very first deer was with the ball. I think you were messing with his brass pens and, and maybe even a long Well, we all recurve Carol, Carol Bow. Yeah. Made Moab, Utah. Yeah. So you were more into the archery. I was into archery, but then muzzle and, and of course, you know, usually I didn’t make favorite 30 odd for the straight eight Simmons. Probably. Why? By the time arche archery and rifle, we were shooting something. So anyway, my grandpa hunted with the Muzz loader. During the rifle. He was kind of the mountain man run. Really? Geez. Had his, made his own, had leathers, like those kits. So the season that says any legal weapon, we’re all taking it to the max. He’s doing that. He’s going back 50 years. My dad, my dad would tell me when they were hunting, he, he knew when his dad shot because if he missed it, definitely a wob gobbling round. Definitely a wobbly. Yeah.
00:03:36:18 –> 00:04:34:18
That’s kind of cool. Oh, good stuff. Well, we’re, we, we’ve come a long way in the world of muzzle letters. So we’re going today. We have come, we’ve come a long ways. And so anyway, we’ve actually been working with CVAA little bit. And you know, Devin, you can talk a little bit about it. I know you’ve dealt with them for years in the past on the business side, it seems like a little bit. Yeah. I mean they, they make some solid products. I, I’ve shot several models. I’ve got different ones for different states, and I haven’t had one that has been a problem. I mean, they do what they’re supposed to and they’re, they’re not, they know like these rifles are a thousand or more. They’re, you can pick one up for three, 500 bucks. It’s unbelievable. So I ended up getting you, I ended up getting, you can have one for three different states. You get some northwest stuff and Well, that’s my favorite about Bronson has to have an Idaho model. He had to have, what do you mean Utah model? He had to have a, well, they a Colorado model and then iron sight in Nevada, but take it to the max, whatever that means. Yeah.
00:04:34:18 –> 00:05:36:03
Well you can’t, can kind of use the same one in Colorado and Nevada other than now you can use Sabbaths when you go to Nevada, when you, you have to use full bore stuff in Colorado and you can use pellets if you want Nevada, you lose power. You can’t in Colorado. But same gun, just different loads. And then you don’t like to mess with, with, when you get one set up, you don’t wanna mess with it. Oh, they can be finicky. So, no, I, I spent a lot of my early spring and early summer this year with anticipation of Utah, you know, going to, you know, and Nevada have, you know, hunting an open sight state and maybe having a red dot state for Utah, I kind of want to have a go preach. Well, and it’s a natural to get new gear, right? We have new rigs. Like I wanna, it was just a natural to, for me now, I don’t need this. Whatever. I haven’t, I, you know, custom, custom rifle that’s made for 600 plus yards. Well, red dot and open sight’s only gonna go so far. Yeah, you can’t. And I’m actually kind of tired of the 12 pounder. Wow. I, my, my, my is no joke. I’ve, I’ve got two of those and, and they’re okay if you’re on a hunt that’s like kind of close to the truck all the time, which some of ours are.
00:05:36:03 –> 00:06:45:03
But if you’re, if you’re doing a lot of hiking with it, man, they are tanks. I bought my son, I bought my son for Christmas or birthday, I can’t even remember. Always hunting gear for everything. Anyway, ended up with a muzz loader and I, Devin and I were out at the range. All I had to do was just purge the round and make sure we clean it well, you know, so I purged around offhanded at 200 yards. The dong open sight offhand, and I’m just like, was awesome. I just, we don’t need a 12 pound rifle to that. Go do what we’re doing here. Do open site in Utah, one hundred, a hundred fifty two hundred Yard Street. Yeah. And then, and Devin, he smashes his buck in Nevada. Some ridiculous figure 200. It was the perfect situation. Silhouette against a dark green bush literally sitting Yeah. Next to almost a light green like white bush. Yeah. And it was just a, you know, a brown body. It was perfect. But Yeah. But what, what I’m, what I’m loving is that we’re always looking for that odd season, usually dealing with our tree and muzzle equipment. You know, where the drawing odds are palatable. You guys got some out-of-state tax this year too. Yeah. One thing I’d mention is they do make kits for some of these that you can, it’s like a Northwestern kit.
00:06:45:03 –> 00:07:50:00
You can put a, put a different breach in on the same, on the same muzzle loader to and go to Idaho. What? Yeah. They have kits that’ll change my life. Yeah. But I already have one of those buzz loaders, so No, but it would’ve changed your life. It would’ve, but, but now, now I already have the gun. You’ve got the gun, you’re not touching for the next five years. Well, and and it’s fine. And I don’t hunt. I’ve hunted Idaho once or twice. Yeah. Once and then Yeah. Had a super tag one time. So technically I had a muzzle loader with me. I was kind of scouting. But anyway, I’ve killed a lot of my bucks with a muzz loader. Like I like it. I like it. Well, I guess you could say archery muzzle rifle. But I mean, you just generally hunt. You get hunt dirt Yeah. Sooner. That’s another, I mean, September, there are late hunts, but generally, yeah, September. Usually a lot of states. Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Nevada, elk. Before you get to hunt, you all get a hunt before the rifle hunt. Yeah. So if you don’t, if in Devon’s case, and a lot of our cases, you end up chasing them hard with the bow, you kill ’em with muzzle litter. Well, so Nevadas deer season, the, the best season is the muzzle season. Well, in the archery ends like September 9th.
00:07:50:00 –> 00:08:55:00
And the next day the muzz starts, like you from down go from scouting to killing. Anyway, it happens that way sometimes on a big deer, well, let’s get the, let’s get these guys on, on, on a call with us, kind of go over the products and whatnot. And just maybe a little bit of their history, learn what they’ve got going on. We appreciate our relationship with them. New regulations has caused new equipment, and quite frankly, just kind of changed the landscape of what we got here product wise. And it’s, it’s extremely impressive. Very affordable. Yeah. And we’re a dealer and so it doesn’t take as much. Here we go. Pretty awesome. Right? Not, not as much of an investment to get one of these guns and get it set up shooting good with some of the states. You know, like I said, there’s not very many. You can use the scope anymore. Not counting a lot of the white tail states. You can, we understand those are all kind of different. But as far as western states now we’re dealing with like Arizona. That’s pretty much it as far as using magnified scopes. It’s like it’s, it used to be, you know, three or four of ’em. Now we’re down to them. Yeah. Geez. I I don’t like these new times, New Mexico, Utah guy.
00:08:55:03 –> 00:10:31:13
Well, I like all, I like all the equipment, but, well, and we’re already, now we’re hearing about, but part of it is, is I also like big animals. And so the better you get the, and I was just saying that we’re already hearing from, you know, residents and maybe outfitters and that some of the New Mexico, they’re seeing benefits. They’re like filling, like they’re seeing some better bulls already and well, they know specific bulls that made it. Every outfitter knows specific bulls that made it, that otherwise wouldn’t have. That’s, that’s critical to me. You know what I mean? Yeah. On muzzle loader units that, you know. Yeah. That’s just gonna compound too as years going every year. 13, 15, 17 most notably. Yeah. And so anyway, for elk. All right, let’s get to it. Let’s give ’em a holler, see if they answer and see what we can learn today. Might not recognize my number. Kevin, you there? Yeah, we’re here. How’s it going man? Good. How’s it going Jason? It’s going. I got Tony here as well. We’re just in my office down in large, Phil, Georgia today. Wow. Georgia. But it’s hot down there. There hot. I can feel it being muggy from here. A hundred degrees and 98% humidity. I could feel it here in Utah. That’s terrible. You could, you could probably hear the mosquitoes buzzing in the background. Ugh. Geez. That’s a I’m never moving back. Yeah, you’re not sewing. No.
00:10:31:13 –> 00:11:47:14
Tell me the good things about Georgia. You get a nice change of seasons. There’s an interstate that takes you north out here. I like it. I like it close to Florida. Yeah, we, there’s that. Yeah, like Florida, we got, we got the Georgia Bulldogs if you’re a college. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. SCC country, they’re proud. They coming out with their mascots already. Here we go. Oh yeah, I heard it was SCC Media day yesterday. I saw that all over the news. Yep. I, I hadn’t really followed it too closely the last couple months, but I’ll be, I’ll be neck deep in Georgia football here in about 30 days. Yeah. The big news is they got what Oklahoma and Texas joining you guys this year. That’s kinda a big buzz. So anyway. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely gonna change the dynamics of the seasons going forward, that’s for sure. Yeah. But this stuff means nothing to me. Well Jason, hey, I spend a lot of time my, Hey, I still don’t, I’m still not seeing a reason to move out there. Well, anyway. Alright. Hey, hey Devin. Who’s Devin? Who’s on there with you? Is Jason here and who else? Adam, Jason and Adam. Jason, Adam and Devvin. We’re all here this morning, so appreciate you guys. Awesome man. Making some time for us and it’s awesome.
00:11:47:19 –> 00:13:22:09
You know, maybe before we start diving into products and whatnot, why don’t we have you both introduce yourselves a little bit and maybe the roles you have within CVA and your company and then, you know, talk about, you know, just the current state of affairs in the company and maybe product, you know, we’ll just keep, you’ll get into product at the end. Yep. But here and manufacturing where it is, you know, Spain, what, however you guys wanna lead that, but why don’t we introduce you guys first. Okay. I guess I can go first. Jason sibo been with the company, gosh, going on 14, 15 years now. I’m title is Vice President of Sales and brand manager for what we call the CVA division, which includes obviously CVA, but also power belt muzzle looking bullets, quake Industries, which is our claw sling, which is primarily what we’re known for on the quake side. And then Dura site is our kind of our optics mounting hardware that we use primarily on CVA scope packs and that sort of thing. So that is my role. Been the, the VP now for over the CVA division for probably three, four years now and just, just just keep doing my thing. Gotcha. That’s awesome. Yeah. All right. Well let’s see. Tony, what do you maybe introduce yourself a little bit? Yeah, you bet. So my name’s Tony Smotherman. I’ve worked for the brand since 2009.
00:13:23:08 –> 00:14:35:05
My title currently is head of Influencer Relations, which is basically a, a redneck term for politician. I handle all the media side of things. So I handle bloggers, podcasters, YouTubers, TV show hosts, magazine owners, editors, publishers. Geez, that sounds terrible. So, so, you know, you know, the, the great thing about it, this is, I kind of been all those at one time in my life. So it’s very easy to work as a company man, to work with these folks out there because I’ve stood in their shoes before. Yeah. So it’s a very, very easy conversation for us to have. So I had all aspects of media here for the CVA brand and then subject matter expert for the muzz loading side of things that we do. My background is 30 years in the mus loading industry, and that’s kind of my specialty, per se, is the mus loading side of things in the hunting world. Wow. That’s awesome. We got, we got two of the top guys in, well we’ve both been 14, 15 years. Sounds like you guys both been there roughly the same amount of time. So 30 years in pretty close. Yeah. Yeah. Things have, things have come away for 30, the past 30 years. Yeah. Yeah, bro. You know, technology, technology touches everything that you and I use in field every day.
00:14:35:06 –> 00:15:50:23
And I mean, we’re on a podcast talking to a phone and you guys are on some specialty mics on, you guys’ end out there. So technology touches everything. And it also is transferred into the farms manufacturing world too. Absolutely. So, yeah, so you guys, are you both in Georgia let educate maybe some folks about, you know, where you guys are based and why you’re based, where you’re at, and then, you know, as far as the company level why. And then, you know, maybe we’ll tie into that and then move into some of the production side of guns before we then get into actual specifics of, of, you know, we’re, we’re Western hunters obviously, so you know, what we, what we tend to use and like and want might be slightly different than maybe guy you guys sell the most of or an Eastern guy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But anyway, we’re actually not even, I know there’s different regulations depending on the state and stuff, but we’ve had, we’ve gone through a big change out here too. So lot of state, right? That’s, there’s a lot of guys looking at maybe changing up things just a little bit. They don’t want to change their long range setup, but, so they’ll buy something different for the new regs here in Utah or open New Mexico or New Mexico, so, so anyway, there’s just a lot to learn on, on, on what’s available now, you know, especially Yeah, for sure. Yep.
00:15:51:09 –> 00:17:39:04
Yeah, so here in Georgia we, we, it’s BPI outdoors is, is the, but I guess the parent company or the umbrella for the, the CDA division was also includes bogar rifles. So we’ve got our sister brand Bogar rifles that’s, that’s handled and managed by another, another team, not really a team, but another group of individuals here for the sales. Our marketing department handles all brands, but that, those are all the brands that are fall under the BPI outdoors umbrella, which is located here in Lawrenceville, Georgia. And then you roll up from that. We actually are owned by a company called Decar. And Decar is located in northern Spain in what’s called the Basque region, which is known for the, a very well known area for firearms manufacturing. Very high-end shotgun manufacturing. And our Decar facility just moved in within the last six months into a brand new state of the art facility with, oh gosh, lines for production lines, automatic lines for Sierra code 3D printing. Gosh, we’ve got now, we started back when we started making our own barrels specifically for CVA Begar wasn’t even around then. This is pre 20, 20 14 before Begar came on board. But we were making barrels for just our own consumption. And we had two barrel lines, oh gosh, probably 10, 15 years ago.
00:17:39:20 –> 00:19:11:10
And now that is, we have grown to have, now we have six barrel lines, which also includes, not only includes the rifling machines, but also we’ve got vertical honing machines to, to polish the bores prior to button rifling. We’ve got the stress relieving chambers to relieve the steel before they’re machined. So we don’t get any movement in the steel. And then we’ve got, you know, tons and tons of CNC machines, you know, third multi-axis machines for actions receivers, you know, so, you know, they have lines and lines of assembly and certain what we call like silos where we’ve got, you know, the muzzle loader silo that’s got its own for production and manufacturing and barrel machine. And then you got the bogar silo for bolt action rifles. And then the c the CVA center fire silo for manufacturing. So it’s a very, very well put together state-of-the-art manufacturing facility. And we’ve, we’ve needed it for a very long time. So just to kind of give you a, an idea on the old facility versus the new, in the old facility that we were in, it was a three story manufacturing facility. And it was getting to the point where we were growing so fast in both the CVA side and the bogar side that they were turning break rooms into areas for assembly. Geez. Wow.
00:19:11:18 –> 00:20:28:29
They were, they were having to do some of the, some of the work and some of the assembly, you know, in one part of the, the factory and then move, move the, you know, the semi completed rifle to another part of the facility. So it would literally take from a production standpoint, anywhere from gosh month, a month to two months to get like an actual production. Lot of guns, you know, completed and out the door just wasn’t quite as efficient. It’s not quite as efficient moving around and scheduling. Exactly. Exactly. There was a, there was a lot of dead time that killed our efficiency. A lot of that moving time that killed our efficiency. And now with moving to these production lines and silos, what I mentioned earlier, we can cut that down to days, like seven to eight days so we can, we can get, you know, more product out the door more efficiently we can get that helps us with, you know, new product introduction. You know, our goal is to be able to, you know, react faster to market changes, whether it be like for you guys, you know, Utah changing to, you know, require open sites or, you know, a large part of our business is straight wall stuff.
00:20:29:01 –> 00:21:37:12
So like in the Midwest, you know, a lot of the, yeah, a lot of the states are moving to where the, you can use straight wall cartridges, like three 50 legend, 400 legend in your historical, you know, muzzle loader seasons. And having that ability to, to be able to change pretty quick to market changes is definitely gonna be, you know, it’s gonna give us a boost. It’s going to, it’s gonna make us be able to react faster to that change. Well that’s, that’s good. ’cause out west, I don’t know, I can’t imagine, I don’t follow all the eastern states like regulation changes at all. But they change a lot out west and it feels like the last three to five years they’ve, well, and it’s, they’ve gone all, they’re just reacting to the lack of quality and trying to, trying to adjust things with Yeah. Trying to change hard, trying to reel in the, the technology slightly. Yeah. And so then we’ve got hams hunts, we’ve got all kinds of weird things and they’re throwing out, I, I wouldn’t be surprised we do straight walled stuff a little more, you know, I mean, maybe on some center file, who knows what’s coming. It’s not even really been a thought for most of the states out here, but Yeah. So what that brings skews for you guys. I mean, it’s, you’ve got stuff Yeah.
00:21:37:12 –> 00:22:58:23
That, you know, isn’t just the 50 caliber, you know, hawking days back, you know, Jason and I got talking earlier before we started this podcast, you know, we were, you know, we were shooting some pretty primitive stuff when we were 12, 14 year olds. But anyway, it’s come a long ways and yeah, you have a lot of options now. And very interesting. So how long has that new, I guess, facility or that new setup been cranking over there in probably about six to eight months now. Okay. What, what, what they did is they did, instead of just basically turning the water hose off and shutting everything down, which would just kill production and demand for our, for, you know, guys like you and our consumers and our retailers, they did it in stages. So over the last, I’d say 18 to 24 months, they’ve been slowly, you know, taking machines outta the old factory, moving ’em to the new factory. We’ve had a little bit of hiccup, but they’ve also added new machines to, during that time too, to where, you know, we’re still receiving product production’s not affected as much. And, and honestly, it, we really haven’t, didn’t really even notice a hiccup in production with the move. So they did it pretty almost, I seamless, I’ll say flawlessly. Seamless. Yeah. But, but they, it was, it was, it was, it was seamless, correct. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:59:00 –> 00:24:13:23
Made any product we’ve ordered, been here within two weeks. Oh yeah. It’s awesome. It’s great. Yep. It’s awesome. Good. But then on, so tell us a little bit like when you’re turning, when you’re turning a, a set of rifles into, you know, six to eight days or whatever it is, or, you know, is that what you were saying? Like now it’s turning in, in a matter of a week or something like that? What you used to do in a month or? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So by the time that they get, you know, the mach, the, the Barrels profile, they get all the other parts and components, you know, that, that lot, you know, it could be, you know, 500 guns in a lot or it could be a thousand guns in a lot depending on, you know, what our supply chain is calling for and what our what our, you know, dealers and purchase orders are calling for. You know, that, that, that time to basically get all the parts and components get, if the barrel’s gotta be glued or serial coated, depending on the model, by the time we get all those parts and components into the assembly line, by the time they start package the gun or assemble the guns, package them, put ’em on a pallet, shrink, wrap ’em, and you know, we’re in that, like I said, six to eight day range instead of, you know, pretty impressive 30 to 45 days.
00:24:13:25 –> 00:25:36:21
And, and so with that, generally, how does that affect the overall quality of product? You’re, you know, is it, I mean, are are you seeing accuracy go up? Are you seeing ti tighter tolerances, you know, with the production line being, you know, just tighter, just, it seems like everything’s tightened up a bit and maybe that affects the product, or, or, or maybe it doesn’t, maybe it’s something you guys have always, always had, but it just seems like if you’re, you’re adjusting the assembly lines and the processes and then also, you know, keeping things tighter and not having to transfer to building, to building to building and things like that. How is that affecting the end product, which is what a consumer cares about? What I care about? Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that’s, that’s a great point, Jason. I think, I think it’s improved, it honestly be because of that, because everything is under, I don’t wanna call it a microscope, but everything is, you know, in one area, it’s not having to, you know, be jockeyed back and forth from one location to another in the, in the manufacturing facility process. And I, and I think, you know, it’s, it’s definitely improved the, the quality, not only just cosmetics, but also the, the fit, the function and the accuracy. Yeah. Well, it’s pretty awesome. I can’t, I can’t, maybe we should go into some like the models, but I’ve, I don’t know.
00:25:36:24 –> 00:26:41:28
I don’t know guys, if I’ve, if I know a company that has more options and models, we’ve got the Colorado option, we’ve got, I mean, you can scroll pages and pages of, of different options, whether it be different camel patterns, whether it be the, the s coating, whether it be the length of barrels, the calibers, the, the m or not, I mean, a hundred different options. And so I don’t know where you guys want to go with this podcast and, and teaching, you know, the, the customer what you’ve got. Yeah. Maybe about how that affects all that. Maybe how do you pick one of them? Yeah. For, I think for us out here, the LRX, the MRX, let’s talk about those first. Yeah. Okay. That’s their new models. And Yeah, go ahead Jason. I’ve got the LRX, but yeah, do you, do you, you want, so, so, you know, you’re, you, you guys are talking about all the different models and different SKUs that we have and that is correct, but they all have a, a different fit for different user. You know, if you, if you look at different barrel links that we have, we have the LR models and then the MRX models, the LR models, obviously the long range version with the longer barrel assembly and the Mrs obviously shoulder barrels. So each one of those has its own place.
00:26:42:00 –> 00:27:46:24
You know, some guys think that, that they get a bit more accuracy, more muzzle velocity out of a longer barrel. Some guys don’t want to deal with a longer barrel because they’re hunting in a tree stand or, or in a box blind. And that it makes those, those m mr models, in essence, the mountain models per se, easier to handle in a whitetail hunting scenario. Or, and or if you guys are, obviously the western market for us is growing extremely fast with these new additions and changes to the mus loading rules and rigs in those states out there. Some guys want the MR models ’cause they don’t wanna hike up a hillside or mountainside in you guys this world. They don’t wanna hike up a mountainside with a 30 inch barrel. They prefer a 26 inch barrel just to lighten their load of, of overall weight and care capacity. Well, and before we leave the barrel length idea there, you know what I was shocked about and you guys, we talked about it at length, a 30 inch does not feel like a 30 inch no action. There’s no action, there’s action, there’s not, as long as you think like compare that to a rifle, which is 22 to 24, maybe a 26 rifle maybe. Yeah.
00:27:47:02 –> 00:28:50:06
But yeah, our action design obviously is, is much shorter than one that would, that you typically, so I’ve got a 30 inch, it doesn’t feel, it doesn’t, it’s like a 24 or 26 inch center fire field. Exactly. It’s not sticking out like a, not like a 30 inch chunk. No. You know, like Exactly. Just so anyway, when we, when we initially heard 30 or or 26 or whatever it is, you know, and you have in your mind, well, how that’s gonna feel and yeah, you just gotta minus the action in your mind, mind that’s a, you know, four to five inch chunk of the gun much because a lot of our not there as much, a lot of our muzz loaders from, you know, five, 10 years ago had a significant action. And so they, they’re just, they were, there was a design, a difference in design. And so the barrel length was shocking, I guess. Yeah. I’d pick it up and I’d like, holy crap, it’s not as long as I thought it’d be. No, it’s not. And so anyway, you know, and, and that 30 inch barrel model, the LR versions of the inlines that we manufacture today that actually come about because we kind of did a consumer survey of what folks wanted to see in a futuristic direction of our brand.
00:28:50:19 –> 00:29:54:18
And, and a lot of people asked for that in particular to get more accuracy and more muzzle velocity out of that. But, but all the skews we have basically is, is meant to fit all the different users and consumers that we have out there in the world. And not everybody is gonna want a 30 inch barrel, but some do. So we build specific models for those guys that want these specific attributes of different that we manufacture. Oh yeah. Like there’s a lot of options and, and it’s, there’s a lot of options. There’s a lot of options. And so, yeah. You know, some guys like camo, some do not like camo. Some like 45 caliber, some like 50 caliber. Yeah. So we try to make sure that we engineer and manufacture products that is to the masses. We bill what they want. Yeah. I thought I wanted a 50 then Bronson gets a 45 and then I realized I wanted a 45. Well, for, for me, so I, I got, so I sold my 50. No, I actually gave it to one of my kids. Yeah. And then I grabbed another 45. Yeah, that’s right. But we’re used to shooting the 40 fives because of the ballistics. Well, and yeah, that, and most of the, most of the time, if I hunt with the muzzle loader, most of the time it’s, it’s for deer. Yeah.
00:29:54:21 –> 00:30:56:06
And so I, I archery hunt, elk hunt far more than I hunt elk, if anything else. And in fact, I don’t, I don’t remember when the last time I muzz load hunted for elk. So the bigger caliber, you know, heavier bullet, all that is not as important to me. So a 45 grand bullet, little bit more velocity out of all that and shooting deer sized game. That’s what, that’s where I’m after. Well, and the, and the, and the game agencies, they do, they don’t understand like a 45 caliber when you’re looking at the, you know, the, the weight and the speed and the energy. Oh yeah. You can actually get more energy out of like a 45 than say a 50 if you’re, if you’re doing it right. And so when they, when they have a 50 caliber restriction that’s archaic. Yeah. And it, a lot of ’em have kind of hung on maybe for elk, fortunately. But for me, that’s why I made the dec decision a little bit, maybe flatter shooting for me. And I hunt deer, I hunt deer with a muzzle loader most of the time. That’s what I’m hunting, you know, I don’t, I don’t hunt elk. And, and so when you, when you mentioned the difference in say, velocity and accuracy, can you quantify that for us?
00:30:56:11 –> 00:32:07:16
What do you find in a 30 inch versus a 26 versus, you know, it’s probably far as feet per second the top questions I get. And your accuracy per, is there a difference between the, or should I just, should I go short? Go smaller Yeah. Between the LRX and so and MR So let, lemme back up just a second. On the 45 caliber, 50 caliber conversation you guys were just having. So in my 30 years of the mu loving industry, there has been heaves and hoses of the 45 caliber coming and going three different times that I can remember. And so the 45 would come up and then it would go away, and then it would come up and it’d go away. But we have, we have come up with it for the third time, but it’s basically due to technology. It’s not the 45 calibers of yesteryear. So like what you were talking about there, where you guys hunt whitetail with a 45 caliber, you know, back in the day that 45 caliber was designed originally to shoot 175 to a 225 grain projectile, which is super fast, but does not have a lot of kinetic energy due to its light body mass. And so that’s why it would come and go over two decades. Wow.
00:32:07:16 –> 00:33:31:12
It come in, come in, went twice because people realized it was super fast and super flat shooting, but then also didn’t have enough kinetic energy to effectively harvest anything over a white tail size animal. Whereas now where you shooting 300 greeners Yeah. And, and, and magnum powder charges Yeah. With these guns. Yeah. So things have changed. So, and the 45 caliber that we manufactured today, which we introduced several years ago, you know, now we’re talking something that we’ve never talked about in the uz load industry before. And that’s high BC projectiles are ballistic coefficient of a mu and projectile. ’cause originally, you know, mu, that shot basically a big piece of lead ply, let’s call it a pi, let’s call it a rock. Those pistol bullets, they shot 44. Nobody, nobody would dial for a rock. No. You know what I mean? That’s right. It was a round ball basically. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. So, so now we have technology to build longer OGI projectiles or basically longer taper, higher ballistic, higher ballistic coefficient projectiles. And now we’re building 45 calibers and 285 grain up to 325 green bullets. Which as you can imagine, a 45 caliber in net projectile weight is a very long, sleek, sexy projectile. Amazing. It’s actually amazing. They’re beautiful, let’s call it amazing. They’re beautiful. Oh, it’s, and so, so the, the 45 is here to stay.
00:33:31:14 –> 00:34:44:26
Now that we finally got it right, we have got the projectiles figured out. We have got the weight figured out. We got now kinetic energy that we didn’t have before. And now we have a very long, sleek bullet that is very good at long range. And you know, for effective purposes where people talk about, oh, I’d rather shoot a 50 caliber for big game elk in consideration, our 45 caliber projectiles at 285 grains of body weight, more energy has enough kinetic energy to effectively harvest an elk at 600 yards. And that’s not what, we never could do that before. ’cause our projectiles are so light. And so what energy, and this reason I just had no power. I guess just to stop you for just a quick sec, but what energy do you figure you need to kill an elk? I, I like to hover around 13 to 1400 foot pounds of kinetic energy. That’s what we’ve over a thousand, that’s what, that’s kind of what we’ve Yeah. Had in our minds, you know? Yeah. Over a thousand. I mean, some of the long range rifle guys definitely want over 1,013 to fourteens longer range. Similar, exactly what you’re talking about Sim same thing. And in theory too, the, for the whitetail side of things, it’s always been about 900 foot pounds of kinetic energy. Yeah. And that’s why that the 45 of yester years did very well because they could maintain that.
00:34:44:28 –> 00:36:00:09
But today, man, we have a 45 caliber with, you know, obviously we’ve address adjusted and adapted to these longer projectiles with which changes up twist rate requirements in our barrels. So because we do manufacture our own barrels, we do manufacture our own projectiles. We can make our our barrels up with the proper projectile to make these very effective at long range elk hunting scenarios, with the exception of the states that do not allow us to shoot a 45 caliber a That’s what I’m about, I think. Yeah, Colorado, there’s a, it’s a little archaic. That’s what I’m saying. They just need to catch up with the time slightly. I mean, but, but whatever. So that’s what Adam’s saying is initially our minds always went to 50 because that would allow us to do everything, be legal everywhere and, and shoot a big enough bullet with enough energy. Yeah. You know, and that’s not the case. You don’t need, that’s not a factor. You don’t to worry about the case. And these, and these 45 caliber restrictions that are in place are basically in place and have been in place for a decade because the, the rules and regulations across some of these states are so old that they just have not been updated and they do not understand kinetic energy, projectile weight, ballistic coefficients of bullets have changed today. So basically it’s just a lesson they have not learned with updated technology. Yep.
00:36:00:27 –> 00:37:11:19
Agree with you a hundred percent. And so, and your, your products are affordable enough. If you had to have a 50 caliber, it’s a good excuse to go buy one. You got, you know, four 50 to $650 roughly, and you get just get a different gun. Get a different gun, that’s your elk, elk set up. That’s awesome. If you want that. Exactly. Exactly. So that’s what, you know, just a very affordable rifles, even the, even the higher end are affordable. Yeah. And shoot. Amazing. And so anyway, yeah. So yeah. And Jason, the other thing to, to touch on real quick on the, on the 45 that just wanted to make, throw it out there. The, and the reason, see people may look at our, our, at our catalog and our product lineup with you guys and say, well, why is, why is the 45 caliber a little bit more expensive to the same looking 50 cal? Yeah. The, the reason that that it is, is because we, we include what’s called ala adapter kit, conversion kit with the 40 fives. What what we found is that if you’re running a max charge, let’s just say Black Horn, two oh nine, a hundred twenty grains by volume of Black Horn 2 0 9 in a, in a 45 versus a 50, the 2 0 9 primers are made of a very, I don’t wanna call it aluminum, but it’s a very weak material.
00:37:12:14 –> 00:38:27:18
And with, with the increased pressures in a 45 over a 50, you’re having to, you’re getting the primers would swell and get stuck in, in the breach plug. Okay. So we were having to tell folks, you know, hey, we’ll just, you know, decrease the powder charge. Well then that, that, that takes away the efficiency of what people wanna four for everything else. Yeah, exactly. So nobody wants to decrease powder charges. No one wants to decrease Exactly. Other than on muzz or without a muzzle break, I guess. I don’t know. That might come in, somebody might think about that, but, yep, exactly. Well, and so that’s why we’re like, you know what, these guys are kind of be willing to pay, you know, 50, 60, 70 bucks more, a little bit more for a, a better system. So let’s include a Vela conversion kit. And what what that is, is the Vela looks like a 2 0 9, but it’s made out of four 16 stainless steel and it’s an adapter to take large rifle primers. Yeah. So if a guy doesn’t want, if a guy wants to shoot the full max load of 120 grains by volume of Black Horn 2 0 9, they’ll just need to swap out the breach plug with the vela breach plug that’s included with every 45 caliber Acura. And then there’s, I think there’s 10 or 20 bear flames in that kit that are reusable.
00:38:27:24 –> 00:39:29:00
And there’s a, there’s an actual repre priming reloading kit included as well. And that sounds slightly complicated when you mention it, but we’ve done it. It’s not, it’s not you just, it’s them in your head kind. Your your center fire hand primer. Yeah. Prime, prime ’em real quick. And you can do, I mean, you buy some, you can buy, tell folks to buy a bunch of extra when you 30 you’re gonna, you’re gonna drop ’em. And you guys just handed me a bunch of extra. Do you, are you telling me something? Well, when you just hand me an extra 20 like, Jason, we know you’re gonna need, need these. When you prime these do ’em all. Well, when you, when you drop, when you throw a bunch of two and I in your pocket, you don’t mind if you drop a few here and there sweat pocket or you go in a rain store, whatever, and you’re just worried about ’em in general or they just fall out. These ones, you know, hap half, 25, 30, whatever, and just do ’em all up. And that way you prime ’em all at the same primer at the same time and Exactly. And, and that type of thing. So they’re, they’re very simple. Once you, like you said, it’s very easy. Your breach plugs are easy to take out, easy to put back in.
00:39:29:14 –> 00:40:39:27
And then, you know, it has a little deep priming tool for your, your know, Vera flames after they’re spent just a little thing knocks, knocks the spent one out and then whoever came up with the Vera Flame name, that’s a pretty good name. Yeah. Really? I don’t know. Is that you, one of you guys responsible for that? Just take credit, Tony, was it you? No, fortunately we can, there’s, there’s a guy to Canada called Cecil s and we, we, we were given his contact a few years back. Yeah. And we, we’ve kind of partnered with him Awesome. On, on that project and a couple other projects in the past. But, so yeah. Unfortunately we can’t take credit for it. But it’s it’s definitely a, a very catchy good name. It is. Yeah. It is. And it tells you everything in a matter of just a word or two, which is kind of ideal. What, tell me, let’s talk about the max, this 120 grains of volume, you know, everybody, we’re, we’re all weighing our powder have done for a lot of years now, but versus just, you know, the old standard, you know, brass tube Yeah. Volume thing, but Yeah. But I think it’s, is it about 85 or 89 grains ahor? Roughly 84. 85. 85, I can’t remember is equal to one 20 of volume. I believe so’s that pretty close.
00:40:40:07 –> 00:41:50:06
Do you guys know it’s it’s in the owner’s manual, if I remember right, or the paperwork. Yeah, so the, the, the, the factor is 0.7. So it’s just 70% of your volumetric. Okay. So 120 grains by volume is 84 grains by weight 84 8 5 5. Yeah. And that oh 0.7 is that in obviously black horn? 2 0 9 only? That’s, that’s just black hor. Yeah. I don’t know what the conversion is for 57 or something like your triple seven and yeah, your power deck loose. I don’t know what the factor is on that. And is that the, is that the max with the ve flame on any and all caliber and models? Yeah. Yeah. So it, yeah. So the, the max volumetrically for the, the max charge on black horn is, is less volumetrically than loose powder, loose powder or pelletized powder. The magnum or maximum charge is 150. Okay. And black horn is 120. Yeah. Yeah. So what you guys gotta realize is it’s a burn rate, it’s a diff it’s a different component. Yeah, exactly. Completely different powder propent. Well, and the propellants that are on the market today, you know, it originally started with Gox and then it went to Pyrodex and it went to seven seven. Now it’s the black orange 2 0 9 and course the white haws and the other Peloton forms of powder.
00:41:51:06 –> 00:43:06:07
That’s a great thing about muzz loading in general, is in theory, all the muzz loading propellants are equal in their burn rates and chamber pressures, with the exception of Black Horn 2 0 9, black Horn 2 0 9 is about 15% hotter than other propellants on the market. So that’s why we put our maximum limitations at 120 grains versus the one 50 that would be in a pyx or triple seven or a pelletized form of powder just ’cause the is hotter. Yeah. And one thing too to remember and consider that, you know, there’s multiple primers out on the market today. Like we talked about the ignition source of the RIFing, which uses the large rifle primer and then the rest of our muscle loaders are ignited by a 2 0 9 shotgun primer. There are multiple 2 0 9 shotgun primers on the market today. Several of them are what they call or consider a muscle loading 2 0 9, which basically is designed for pelletized powder, but because of the ignition point being higher on Black Horn 2 0 9, that we have to run a standard full heat source 2 0 9 shotgun primer to make that black horn come to life and, and light up Interesting stuff. Tony, do you see, can you use a large magnum rifle primer? So you said, said, you said large rifle, but can you use the magnum or Yeah.
00:43:06:09 –> 00:44:24:18
Or do you, okay, so, so that is a very fantastic question and I’m gonna, I’m gonna back up just a little bit. I hate to keep going backwards, but I, but this is gonna tie into your question. So the reason we went to the verif flame adapter kit, outside of the pressure issues of a 45 caliber, it also is a more instantaneous ignition source and, and also more accurate. And it’s hard to think about making a mu loader more accurate by just changing the fire or the ignition, AKA, the primer. But when we started testing some of our newer muscle loaders and, and we were having a bit of inconsistencies along the way that was running the standard 2 0 9 shotgun primer. So just for, I guess for giggles, we swapped over and went to a large rifle primer kind of before the Vera flame come to play. But what we were realizing is, say typically in a 50 caliber running a 2 0 9 shotgun primer, we would have inconsistencies in muzz velocities due to the 2 0 9 shotgun primer of the standard heat or standard version. It would actually dislodge the powder charge a little bit out of the powder column, basically pushing the powder and bullet forward before the powder ignited, which would give us inconsistent chamber pressures, therefore different velocities, different accuracies on paper was the end result.
00:44:25:01 –> 00:45:43:13
So when we started out with the large rifle primer, it has the same heat source as the 2 0 9 shotgun primer, but it’s more, it’s not as abusive. So basically think about a 2 0 9 shotgun primer. Basically when you lit it up, it puked everything. It had in one instantaneous fire where the large rifle primer has the same heat, but it’s more like a small blowtorch. So when it lights up, it throws the same heat to give ignition that we need for the quick lock times, but it is not abusive upon ignition. So we would go from 80 feet per second in velocity variance in a 2 0 9 down to 10 feet variance Wow. In multiple velocity with a large rifle primer. So they give us more, it, it give us an a consistent burn issue. It was just a consistent burn it more consistent burn, not as abusive, more consistent muscle velocity, which gives us more accuracy at long range. And if you go to the Mag Magnum rifle primer, it also turns into the same scenario. It is too hot, it’s abusive and will dishwash the powder charge and cause this accuracy? I would never have guessed all this. I would, I would, in my mind I can, I can picture more hundred 20 grains more and you want more, I want the maximum fire. You want a big blow torch. Not a little one big torch in theory that that’s what everybody wants.
00:45:43:16 –> 00:46:54:05
That’s why you think the same. But, but there is a fine line of too much of a good thing. We were talking about that the other day if you could use a magnum or not and I’m like, I guarantee there’s a difference. Well so just use, but I would’ve thought they would’ve said yes, use the magnum, you know what I mean? Well they’ve tested you absolutely can if you wanna decrease your accuracy. Yeah. So ahead. They’ve done that. Jason, go ahead. Just, but I don’t recommend that. Just use standard a prime. A 15 gold metal match Magnum. Go ahead Jason. Okay. Standard large. That’s it. Alright. Alright. So that’s good stuff. Very interesting. I mean it’s very interesting. So I mean, yeah. And so, I mean, I know we’re talking about it largely with these 40 fives because out of necessity, like we talked about because small smaller barrel diameter, the powder stacks up further in the barrel because of that. Exactly. You know what I mean? Yep. So you got a longer, you know, you need a longer torch. Yeah. Bigger torch you think, but, but you don’t, but but in a 50 caliber, is there any layman terms there any, is there any need to do ’em? Is it better, have you tested it in the 50 versus the regular shotgun? Shotgun two oh nines and or the shotgun two Oh nines just fine in a 50.
00:46:54:25 –> 00:48:01:18
Well, 2 0 9 is just fine in the 50, but the vela or the large rifle primer ignition is also more accurate in the 50. It’s just not as noticeable. Right. But it’s basically, you know, if you, if you wanna be the best that you can and be the most accurate you can, that large rifle primer is by far the better ignition source. But you know, if you’re okay with inch and a half group at a hundred, then a standard 2 0 9, 2 0 9 shotgun primer is very effective and efficient for you. But if you want to go that extra mile, that large rifle primer kit is definitely the best way to get it. No, there is noticeable though. So not out here in the west though. That’s what we’re people are gonna do. They’re gonna go to the flame, you know what I mean? Versus the white tail if you’re a short range, hundred yards an end a lot of times. Sure. I mean, inch and a half a doesn doesn’t matter. Be long. Yeah. They just keep it easy, simple. Yep. Buy ’em off the shelf and Yep. Go to town. Nobody’s talking about the, I I kind Alright, go ahead. I I No, I was gonna say I was gonna, I I kind of equate it to, you know, the guy wanting to go to the, to the vera flame ignition is gonna be the guy that’s more techie. Precision minded. Precision minded.
00:48:01:24 –> 00:49:07:15
A reloader in, in the I kind of a Yeah. In the fifties. I, I kind of think about also like your, your archery guys who like, you know, have the small archery shop in their basement, kind of like I do you feel grown arrows way every one is a grain, I mean Yep. You get everyone within a one to two grains of each other. Yeah. You square the ends, you know, you guys know the routine and I, I, the, the guy that really wants to fine tune and dial in that muzzle loader for two, I mean, heck, Tony, I think you killed a mule deer buck few years back at 300 yards with the LRX. So Oh yeah. So a guy that wants that was a VE flame. Ve flame and Yep. With yeah. The guy that wants to with 50 fine tune and, and you know, you know, narrow down the performance of that, of that system. Yeah. I mean, buying the airplane ignition system, even if the gun doesn’t come with it, I think is a, is a benefit. It’s a real, it’s, and it also has to do with too, not to cut you off, but like, if you’re in an open site state, you’ve got so many other variables. Your eyesight, your peak, your fiber optic, all that. Yeah. People for, for for 60 bucks, you can go first class. Yeah.
00:49:07:15 –> 00:50:07:24
They, they think that, but then their eyesight’s so bad they can’t hold, they can’t hit the broad some the bar 125 yards with open sight and that’s the best equipment they can have here in Utah. Every guy I’m saying it could be negated by other factors. I guess it’s, this podcast is awesome, but at the end of the day, guys are gonna call us and say, just get me what you get yourself and that’s all they’re gonna do. But like people don’t, they, they want to know that you guys know your stuff. Yeah. So listening to all this is awesome. I like hearing it. At the end of the day, I’m, I’m gonna be, I’m like, okay, just tell me what I need. I want the best. Yeah. And for a nickel more you can go first class, you’re gonna have this set up and we’re, and we’re talking extreme accuracy, extreme with the, and when, when we shoot the LRX with the normal ignition system, black corn 2 0 9, we were shooting four inch groups at 400 yards without with the a with the 50 Devon. Yeah. In the 50. Yeah. We were shooting four inch groups at 400. It’s crazy with the scope. Yeah. It’s awesome. Magnified scope two or three years ago. Yeah. So nice. Yeah. Even without it, they’re still highly active saying they’re still really good, is what I’m saying. So yeah. How much work is it worth?
00:50:07:24 –> 00:51:17:24
All the, you know, priming your own stuff and all that. Maybe it is. I think Devin just had a mic drop right there. I, I was silent. I want proof. That’s hard dev. That is really hard to do. I want proof. It wasn’t me shooting as my brother. Well, how about that? For his, could’ve been three years, but it took a lot of work. We did, you know, and we ended up being right there. 83 grains, 84 grains of, so give us your, do you remember the load? Do you remember the bullet you were using? Do you remember? Was it No, I don’t remember. Don’t remember. I don’t know. What was his brother? It was your brother’s Elk gun 250. Was this the gun, was this the infamous Archibald muzzle order? Okay. I like it. All right. So anyway, good stuff. There’s a little bit of back history. We don’t have to go that brothers involved with maybe a havey gun purchase. And no, Devin now won’t I, I own 100% of that muzzle and it’s awesome. So, well, good stuff. No, so, alright. And then on these different models, I guess, and we should go into the MRX at some and we kind of have, but it seems like there’s, there’s you some come with the rail, some don’t. Some have the, you know, drilled and tap for open site. Can you, is there just a, can we briefly go over that real quick?
00:51:17:25 –> 00:52:40:06
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So all, all the muzzle loaders are drilled and tap, whether it be for a pick rail scope rings or, or scope mount or open sites. A couple years ago we made the decision on our open site guns on the Acura specifically to go to the Williams Peep site. Just because me personally, I feel like it’s more accurate. ’cause I’m, I’m used to shooting a bow and I feel like that that type of system is more accurate than your standard, you know, fiber optics. Yeah. And so we, we moved all our open sites to Williams just because they’re, they’re a great partner of ours. They make great products. That’s what they do. That’s what they do. They’re, they’re the experts we want. Yep. The whole nickel more you go first class. Yep. Yep, yep. Exactly. So it’s gonna cost a little more in the gun, but for, for the consumer to not have a open site fail on ’em in the field, we felt like it was more important to pay a little bit more for those. And then the open or the scope. Now we went to, we started going to pick rails when Tony, about four or five years ago. You know, we still have the integrated one inch on a couple of our lower, lower end models, lower price models. But for the guy running the Acura, they’re gonna run a a 30 millimeter tube.
00:52:40:06 –> 00:54:02:12
They’re gonna run a 34 millimeter tube. They’re gonna have, they’re gonna want a range adjustment scope in the rings Yep. That they want Yep. They want enough dial and dope in that, in that scope to reach out and touch something. Yep. At, you know, three, 400 yards. So we, and that’s part of the reason why we offer, you know, so many options in the catalog. And it looks like it’s, it’s a ton, but it’s, it’s, it’s, there’s strategy behind it. Adjustments, there’s they light adjustments, barrel length, site site and color camo or block. Yeah. That’s pretty much your variations. And then your caliber add 45 and 50 and pretty much Yep. You’re dealing with 10 guns. But those four or five different four flame or not, I mean, there’s just a few little Yeah, yeah. They, they basically will check, check the boxes for everybody. And then with the MRX and the LRX, actually the Acura, you know, extreme series is, is kind of the, the entire series, you know, we, we went to the carbon fiber collapsible ram rod to, to do two things. We wanted to free float the barrel, but we also wanted to thread the in for a muzzle break. We actually just, just a little bit of a tidbit, kinda insider trading. Kidding. Yeah, insider trading, I guess is how he calls it. We got, we got a new muzzle break that’ll be dropping hopefully in the next 30, 45 days.
00:54:02:14 –> 00:55:12:21
We’ve, we’ve done a lot of testing. We had a muzzle break in the line about two years ago, and we just weren’t happy with the performance of the design. So we went back to the drawing board and we’ve been working on it for quite some time now. And it’s, we got it dialed in and it’s sleek and it’s, it’s perfect. And that’s awesome. And it works with everything. It works with power belt, sabbaths, size bullets, it works with everything. I just, I kind of ended up with a, oh, I want, I wanna call it an aftermarket, just an aftermarket screw on break. And I would’ve never have known that there, it would act different on a Sabo versus a bullet to bore versus, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So what you gotta think of on that same scenario there is that Sabo is basically a parachute that would be behind a drag car, if you’re familiar with that process. Yeah. So when that, when that projectile and SBO leaves the front of that barrel, the further that Sabo gets away from the crown of that muzzle, the wider that Sabo gets, because it’s trying to back its way off of, off of the projectile. So these longer breaks, it’s on the market today with multi-port design or some that are just have the holes in it, they’re gonna be interference in the baffle.
00:55:12:21 –> 00:56:25:11
So the brake itself with the Sabo projectile, because that Sabo is basically designed to get away from that bullet. There you go. Yep. That’s awesome. Yeah, that’s good to know. See there, there’s a reason I needed Tony on this podcast. I, that change, that changes my mentality about what I’ve purchased. Yeah. But anyway, yeah. So, so that the new one that, that we just teased a little bit is designed to shoot very effectively with every projectile on the market today. That way there’s no interference of baffle and, and or baffle strikes as it’s actually called to affect accuracy. And, and also that one of those breaks that you’re probably running may be a bit difficult to run a patch through and get that patch out. And the break that we have designed now is also designed to where that you can clean it with the brake on and not remove that brake at the end of the day for cleaning purposes. Yeah, that’s exactly. You thought of everything. Yeah, we, I you just kind deal with it. You just kind of deal with it and you come up with a little janky system to figure, you know what I mean? And well, yeah, we, we are superseding that, so, so stop doing that. Okay. I’m gonna quit. Yeah. Well we, we also, just to plug the brake again, we got a patent on that little dimension or technology built into that brake, so that’s awesome.
00:56:25:11 –> 00:57:38:12
That’s patent protected. So that’s, that’s a good thing as well. But no, so just going back to the, to the, just the accurate extreme series. So, you know, you got the carbon fiber collapse for ram rod, the gun also. So that is only a loading rod that is a field or range loading rod. And so going to that, again, what I mentioned earlier, free floated the barrel where we threaded the end so people could use a muzzle break without interfering with the under barrel rod. And so carbon fiber collapsible ram rod comes in a molly pouch. That’s, you know, you can put it on your backpack, you can put it on your belt wherever you know you wanna hang a molly pouch from. But also in the, with the gun, you get a solid aluminum ram rod or a cleaning rod. So that would actually be your range cleaning rod. So you actually get two, two rods with the gun. And actually we, we did, we did a little bit of testing just to see, you know, how fast would it be to, you know, pull the carbon fiber collapsible ramrod outta the mo pouch versus an under barrel rod. And the time is about the same. So by the time an its, and it’s kinda like, works like a temp pole, it’s got shock cord in it. Yeah.
00:57:38:12 –> 00:58:48:24
So when you pull it out of the, the pouch, it fully RX kind of like a 10 pole stake. You can load it, you can easily, you know, quickly break it down and stick it back in the pouch. So just, just one, that’s one extra feature on the Acura versus our other models. The other, you get a built in adjustable cheek piece. So a guy like you guys in Utah, you gotta run open sites. That cheek piece will go low enough to run open sites. But let’s just say you draw a, a tag in Iowa or Kansas and you can, and you can throw an optic on it, you can raise that cheek piece up, you know, to get proper eye and scope alignment. There you go. Yeah. Another thing I would add is it comes with both breach plugs, correct? Is the what? It it come with both plugs. Both breach plugs, which is awesome. You’re talking the 45 lease versus a Yes. Yep. The 40, the 45 only comes with the black horn breach plug because that’s, there’s not, that’s what you recommend. That’s, that’s you got idea. That’s what we recommend. But I don’t even think there’s any Peloton. There’s one pellet that’s on the market for 45. Yeah. But we recommend Black Horn and all the 40 fives. But for the 50 it does come with two.
00:58:48:24 –> 01:00:04:01
It comes with your standard, you know, PELLETIZED breach plug and a black horn breach plug definitely feels like these LR XMRX for the Western guy. Like, and, and like I said, affordability price point, have a couple of ’em for different uses if you want to do it that way. I, yep. I would imagine your, your sales or your interest from buyers in the West, that’s, those are really, those are do, those are skews that are dominating, you know, right now out west, so. Yep, for sure. Yep. And under this BPI umbrella, you guys, you sell everything that you need, like all so many options on, on everything to do, do with shooting period. So I don’t know if you wanna go into that a little bit or Yeah, yeah, we can. Yeah, real quick. So, you know, at BPI, we’ve got, I mentioned it earlier, we got the Quake brand, you know quake, we got the cloth sling, it’s, which is probably the number one sling on the market for in that 2020 $5 price range. The claw sling, very, very popular sling and a slim line, a contour pad and an original, you know, kind of what we call the OG pad. A bigger pad for like heavier, you know, bench guns or tactical guns or shotguns. And then we got power belt. So that’s our muzzle loading projectile.
01:00:04:24 –> 01:01:36:03
Those are the, the bullets that obviously we recommend not just for CVAs but for other muzzle loaders as well. Specifically the ELR series. That’s our newer series that we launched a few years ago in, in conjunction with, with Paramount. But those projectiles work fantastic in our entire line from the wolf all the way up to the Acura series, we launched a couple dude bullet weights in that ELR series, A two 50 grain for the 50 cows. So main mainly for your, your east, your Midwest eastern whitetail guys, and then a 330 grain in the 45 caliber. And then a 2 65 in the 40 caliber is available. So if there’s any guys out there that have a Paramount 40 cow and you want a heavier, heavier bullet for elk or for deer, you, we will, we will have that available for you as well. And then the rest of the line, the CVA line, you know, we’ve got single shot rifles, bolt action rifles that are price point and affordable. And then, like I said, mentioned earlier, bogar rifles is, is our sister brand, you know, premium high-end bolt action rifle brand. Yeah. Geez. There’s lot options for everybody. Lots of toys is what I’m hearing. It’s a bit of information overload I would imagine. Well their, their website is a wife’s nightmare. Yeah. I’ve got a few things I wanna buy. Yeah, well that’s pretty awesome. Drop some hints.
01:01:36:25 –> 01:02:51:06
I think we could hook, I think we could hook a brother up. Yeah. What? Yeah, and the, we actually have a couple more, which I need to, to get with you guys on. Probably the other reason Tony’s down here at headquarters is we’re filming some videos, but we’ve got not only the muzzle break that’ll be dropping soon. We’ve got a new, what we’re calling the ultimate range rod, which is a really, really sleek, solid one piece rod that’s got a, well Tony, I’ll let you kind of explain it a little bit. I ain’t trying to steal my phone there. I know, I’m sorry. There you go. Geez, there’s, there’s the mic. So, so you know, the for accuracy a I’m sorry for accuracy in muzzle loaders, it’s all about consistent. That means doing the same thing every time. And you know, if you’ve, if you’ve played around with mu loader much or, or the listeners here today have played around, they, they know that seeding the bullet to the proper depth obviously is very important. And in theory we would take a ramrod and score the ramrod to the load the deck gun, like so that we know we have a witness or reference mark in loading that gun. So number one, we can verify it’s loaded, the bullet is always compressed against the powder charge. And then secondly, to verify that that gun is never double loaded or loaded at all with that reference mark.
01:02:51:10 –> 01:04:16:04
But we’ve created this ultimate ram rod for multiple different reasons. Number one, when you take a traditional ram rod that’s contacted on the bottom of the gun, in most cases they, it does not spin. So when you’re loading that projectile or pushing it downward, the projectile is spinning, but the ram rod in your hand that you’re loading with is not Exactly, so basically as you’re loading that bullet, you’re scribing a line in the face of that projectile, which is gonna, there’s gonna be some accuracy issues because of that. I’ve always wondered about that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yep. So there are ultimate range rod, it has a ball bearing head assembly on it to where when it is being pushed down the barrel there, the loading jag is actually spinning with the projectile, the grooves and lands. So there’s no scarring or scoring on the face of that. And then also, again, kind of referring back to consistency is accuracy in the muzzle loader, we created a bore guide so that when we’re actually loading this, it keeps the ramrod center Boer and basically keeps even and perfect pressure on the face of the projectile. So it doesn’t load that projectile, we’ll say in redneck terms, cat wus per se. Cockeye. Yep. Cockeye, that’s, that’s western term. Oh is it? Okay. I didn’t know you guys don’t use the word coffee. That’s another reason not go Georgia. We say candy walk us in the south.
01:04:16:11 –> 01:05:32:23
Alright, janky. So, so this, this range rod stops a bunch of these idiosyncrasies that cause this accuracy issues. And then it also, we put a jam nut design that will slide up and down this range rod to allow you to utilize that on different muzzle loaders, different calibers. And you can put that jam nut system together. Once you figure out, hey, my gun likes a hundred grains of black orange 2 0 9 and a 330 grain bullet per se, then we can put those jam nuts together and it will allow us to verify proper seating desks. Not double loaded. Yeah, well not double loaded for sure. So it basically takes away that old school reference mark that we used to use. Yeah. And now this jam nut allow us to Yes. Verify that it’s not double loaded. Verify the projectile is seated against the powder and verify again, consistency, verify it’s seated to the same depth and pressure every time. Every time. Yep. Unless you have a really dirty gun and then it just grows a little, you know what I mean? Well, so we make sure that we don’t shoot a dirty gun because that’s inconsistent. That’s not perfect. That’s, that is when you’re in the heat of battle, you’re in the heat of battle stuff’s gonna happen, you know? Anyway. Yeah, we’re talking range. So the old range rod is brand new. We just finished up the video series on it today. Gotcha. Oh that’s awesome.
01:05:32:24 –> 01:06:44:27
That’s gonna be great. The board guide’s great because I have a range rod, and you look at it and it, it can’t be good for your barrel. No. Well, so here’s the main thing. So the, your projectile, when it spins its way down the barrel, the last thing it sees is the crown. The very last eighth inch of rifling is what your projectile sees. And if you’re loading it with a range rod and you do not have a bore guide, then every time you load it, you’re basically grinding down that crown of that last one eighth of an inch of grooves and lands, which is your accuracy. So with a bore guide, it keeps anywhere off the last portion of the barrel that your bullet Yeah. Geez. Lots of, I don’t, I don’t want, I’m glad that somebody knows all this stuff and they provide products for guys like me that just want the good product. Just wanna shove a piece of lead down a barrel and flo it. Right. Why are you using this ball bearing? I don’t want Tony to ever see my ranger us. Yeah, yeah. Devin was just mouthing over here that he’s wore out a few guns doing that basically. No, just like, I guarantee you, and hey, we all have, but try to do it as straight as as you can, as you can. Yeah. It’s, you got a spinning, spinning bullet like, like we’ve been talking about.
01:06:45:00 –> 01:07:58:01
Hey Tony, can I ask you two questions about Coleman questions I get is you bet you let it rip if you know in a range like feet per second difference, whatever powder between the MRX and the LRX roughly we had the same length of barrel, same caliber, same projectile, everything that you’re talking de now, well between Yeah. The 26 inch barrel between the L barrel and a a 30 inch barrel. Okay. Between the two models. So it’s funny you say that we’re actually doing some tests on that here, coming up very soon in the future. But it is, it is not as much as you think. So in the centerfi world, every time you change an inch of barrel length it is, it is a noticeable difference in muzzle velocity change because our muzzle velocity in muscle are much decreased in a muscle loading side of things versus centier the percentage that barrel length. Yeah. Yep. That barrel length is not that big of a difference. There is a muzzle velocity difference, but it’s not as wide of a gap as you would think, like a, like a high powered rifle. That’s kinda what I was thinking. Not even comparable, sir. Okay. And then one other one is, could you go into the nitride coating a little bit and the advantages of that? Yeah, you bet. Yep. Yep. So the nitrite coating is, is, so we didn’t invent that process, but it is a process.
01:07:58:07 –> 01:09:11:17
It makes, it basically makes our muscle loaders impervious to corrosion, which is, it’s kind of a deterrent for a lot of folks to get into the muzzling world because they talk about it being dirty and nasty and corrosive and things like that. But basically you take our stainless steel barrels that we have in, in layman’s terms, we run it through a high temperature salt bath. And basically that is not a coating that we put on it that basically changes the molecular structure of the stainless steel and brings the carbon that’s basically already in the stainless steel and brings to the exterior surfaces. So that carbon now becomes your outer layer of protection. And if you think about it, there’s two outer portions of the barrel. There’s your outer that you see and there’s the outer of the inside of the steel that you don’t see. So the outside of the barrel looks identical to as the inside of the barrel does. So it makes it impervious to corrosion or any kind of rust situations that comes from powder or inclement weather or anything like that. And you know, you, you may get a touch of rust on it, but it would be surface if you hypothetical was in a rainstorm for four days straight. And, but you can wipe it off with your fingertip. There will be never nothing that will penetrate that carbon that is now on the exterior surface to cause a pitting issue.
01:09:12:14 –> 01:10:32:28
You know, and there’s other products out there in the world today that’s like a SCO per se that is a corrosion protector. But at the end, at the end of the day, that exterior coating does not go on the inside. Whereas the nitride is every exterior surface that you see is black with that carbon that come from inside the stainless steel. Yeah. So it’s, you know, we, we, we have sero code finishes on our guns and that sero code is really just cosmetic. Yep. It’s just to make the guns look good and sexy. Yep. Yeah. It it definitely a, it definitely helps with surface rust, corrosion resistant on the outside. But, but as Tony mentioned, you don’t have the problem with the gun rusting out from the outside anyway, generally. Exactly. From the inside out that nitride finishes in the bore where it matters most for muscle loaders. Yeah. And so, and it’s and it’s and it’s inseparably connected to the metal, like it Oh yeah, yeah. You change, it’s not a spray on peach. Yeah. It changed the, it changes the molecular Yeah. Makeup of that. Yep. Metal. Yep. It sounds, it sounds amazing. So I, the numbers it, it increases the surface hardness to like a 60 or 70 Rockwell. And does that, does that, does that coating give you a little more speed too? Possibly or, I believe it, it, it can, it does increase it just a little bit.
01:10:33:00 –> 01:11:32:09
You know, you know how they used to molly cult bullets a little bit just to make ’em slick, you know what I mean? Yeah. Just, I wonder if there’s Yeah. Anyway, anyway, anyway, all of these things like we’re talking about how many things we’ve talked about, 10 of them, 10 things that all make a little difference. But the sum of that could be is huge. Is why we’re talking significant, why we’re excited about muzzle orders. We want three, three years. I just want Devin to tell me which gun I need and to order it up, order a pallet of them. ’cause if we like it, everybody likes it, bro. That’s, that’s right. Well it’s, it’s funny, you know, when, when I grew up muzzle loader hunting, I can’t remember it was an old sidelock, you know. Oh yeah. But back in the day it was, yeah. It was just like everybody considered him a throwaway gun. Oh yeah. You know, you’d go to BassPro or whatever and you’d, you’d buy a muzzle loader for 199 bucks or 2 99 to just to be able to give you an extra two, three weekends. That’s knows. Exactly Right. I remember wetting the patch. You put it in your mouth. In mouth and and the grain of the patch needed the grain of the patch. Yeah, exactly. Needed to go this way versus this way.
01:11:32:15 –> 01:12:31:16
You tried to do, yeah, you tried to mimic it like we need the same exact patch for the next, but they’re also jamming that round ball down and you know, you were making you scarr scar a circular, you’re scarring the rock indentation on that rock, you scarring the rock. So I mean, it was from the start. Then you find out lead’s not good for you shoving lead a meat with hot soapy water. Yeah. All. Oh yeah, that’s ex What’s that? So we used soapy water with boiling, boiling hot soapy water. Yeah. Boiling hot soapy water. That, that’s how dad and I cleaned out. But I guess what I was getting at is, is that bad? Just tell me if that’s bad. ’cause I still have that habit. Ah, well I mean it’s bad ’cause your wife’s gonna throw you out the building. Yeah. It stinks like rot name. But anyway. Oh, it was bad. But no, the, the reason I’ve bring that up is, you know, back then they, you know, they were just considered throwaway guns when it turned into a rust bucket, you just trash it and get another, you go buy another one at the next sale at Bass Pro or Cabelas, you know, now we’re making muzzle loaders that are all practically heirlooms life. Lifelong guns. Yeah. I mean they will, they will last, especially with the nitrate coating.
01:12:31:16 –> 01:13:37:24
These guns will last and they’re, as long as you take care of ’em, they will last. Well that, you know, that’s not, it’s not good for business. You wanna be able to sell guys guns. Well you don’t want depo sell. Hey, this is disposable. You don’t wanna do that either. I don’t know. I don’t know. Well, maybe it sounds good on paper until the guys bought three of ’em was like, geez, I’m buying something different. I remember Devin, were you here when I th threw away my old muzzle order from 1950? I remember you saying you’re probably gonna throw it away. Yeah, well it pitted I could look down and it was pitted out and I used to take great care of it. I thought I did anyway. And anyway, it was one of those guns that I just, I killed everything with it. And you know, it was just kind of, anyway, they, they did have a life and, and it did expire, you know. So anyway. Good to know. You guys are making incredible products. It’s crazy. I’m like, Adam, just, just tell me what I need. I want the best. And it sounds like we kind of got a good feel for why it’s the best. Yeah. And I think it’s awesome you guys very interest continue to be innovative, clear down to a ramrod guiding, you know, guidance down the board and, and all the reasoning behind it. It’s just pretty crazy.
01:13:37:26 –> 01:14:51:07
Pretty awesome. Yeah. Well thanks. Thanks guys. Thanks for, thanks for partnering with the brand man. We appreciate all you guys do for, for us and the industry and hunters. So you bet you guys have been a great partner. Maybe one more just penetrating question really. What about when are these muzzle brakes coming out? I didn’t, Jason’s about to take a drill test to the end of his barrel and ported out question. Can we honestly, as your number one dealer, as your number one dealer, can we have him next to us? Man? Honestly, I’m hoping. I was actually just talking to our technical guys today. We’re hoping we can have all the, what we call, what we call the DV testing and protocols done design validation and basically have, have it have all the box checks for everybody to agree that it’s a, that it’s a go project. Hopefully I’m, I’m hoping the by the middle to the end of August Okay. Is when they’ll be ready. I know that’s getting kind of closed. I pretty much, I’m gonna throw shot. I was gonna throw shot show out style in by then you’ll be in production by maybe for this season then Jason. That’s what he saying. Oh really? That’s, that’s, yeah. Well August you’d have the boxes checked then you’ve gotta set up an assembly line. Oh no, no, no, no, no.
01:14:51:13 –> 01:16:02:22
I’m saying get all the boxes checked and have ’em ready to start selling and ship release the hounds is what he’s saying. Yeah. Release the hounds. Exactly. We’re putting an order in today. Release the hound. And will you be able to, will you be able to retrofit the guns you’ve already been selling? Will you just throw ’em on thread red off just thread off. Red off. Yep. Any MRX or LRX that’s already threaded or or anybody that has a paramount out there that’s threaded either threequarter by 20 or threequarter by 24, these, these breaks will work just fine. That’s awesome. Yep. Geez. It’ll be good. You’re welcome. Yeah, that’s great. All these things add up man. The sum of all these 10 different things from the firing mechanism, from the, you know, the primers to the, they’ll be able to standard what your eyes can see, they will be able to do exactly whatever you can see whether it’s looking through optics, whether it’s looking through open site. That’s right. Well that’s what we want. We want, we want something that can kill something. ’cause 30 years ago when we started hunting or 35 when we started using these, it was a hope and a prayer is all it was. You’re throwing a, it’s been throwing an Uncle Charlie curve ball round projectile you could hear going through the air. A lot of stuff kill a lot of stuff.
01:16:02:25 –> 01:17:08:06
But we’re talking, we’re going on 35 plus years bro. Luck. Well I know that’s why I said 35 muzzled or that long 15-year-old kid that were just man hope and a prayer lapping a, you know, piece of, I I think of myself as pretty, I was pretty, I was deadly. Yeah. Yeah. I’ll bet. I’ll bet. If you could look through your eyes now at your 15-year-old self, you’re like wow, that kid knew nothing that he was, that kid was a real piece of work. That’s right. That’s right. Alright, well we appreciate you guys. Thanks for the partnership as well on our end. So yeah, anything else? Thank you. No thank you guys. Well yeah, you’ve been very informative for listeners for us ourselves and I know listeners obviously. So anything you guys want to end with that we haven’t maybe covered that you think is noteworthy before we, you know, turn you loose on the rest of your day. I think that probably the most noteworthy thing. If anybody has any questions, concerns about anything that we talked today, you can go to cva.com and get that information about who we are, what we make, all the accessories we make, and so on so forth for anything that you need for us loading this fall new VDX. Yep.
01:17:08:07 –> 01:18:23:24
And we have, we just released a new series on YouTube called Essentials to Muscle Loading, which is a 10 part series that we filmed on my range there at my home in Tennessee and then some here at our office here in Lawrenceville, Georgia. So it’s a very informative in depth video series for folks that already know stuff about mu loading and for folks that not that don’t know nothing like Jason here. Well you 10 part, how long are each of those parts? ’cause I, is this a, is this a, is this a binge watch this and which Jason are we talking about? He got a double there man. He got a double. I’m offended. So, so each, each part of this series, obviously, depending on the subject matter that we’re talking about there at the time is, is different lengths of time. I think probably the most, the, the lengthiest one of the crew is probably 15. Yeah. I think it’s like 12 to 15 minutes I believe is the longest one. Most of ’em kind of hover around that five minute mark to keep everybody’s, you sit down a couple, two, three hours, you pound a 10 of ’em out and you’re, you’re, you’re very easy, easy peasy man. Gotcha. Yep. It’s, I I think it’s a pretty good bit of information that can be utilized across the board for experience levels all. Well just search CBA and that’s on our YouTube channel.
01:18:24:03 –> 01:19:30:15
CVA or BPI ON or what? On YouTube. How did you find that? Yeah, CS C-V-A-C-B-A. Gotcha. Yep. Perfect. Yep. People are gonna want go there. I can guarantee it. And maybe we’ll have you guys back on, go over some rifles talk straight wall, who knows little everything so yeah, that’d be great. Yeah, that’d be awesome. Another time. But hey, appreciate your time. Anything Devin? No, I a lot your head’s spinning. Yeah, no, well what’s happening? He’s realized how many guns he’s scarred. The end of the dealing with the range. Rob, it was janky. I was thinking I’d like to kill a buck with a straight wall. That’d be freaking cool. Yeah, well we’ve all talked about that. We just creeping a few of those hunts in the kind of common east but not so in now. Yeah, yeah. They’ve gotten way more common, common in like Iowa and other places like that for white tails and you know, you don’t have to use a single shot muzzle loader. You know, that’s, there’s benefits to it but yeah, we maybe talk about those at another time. But yeah guys we really appreciate your time. Very, very informative. Yep. It’s awesome. Well you’re, you’re welcome. Thank you for having us guys and, and again appreciate the partnership. All sounds good. Thanks a lot guys have have great day a day. Alright, take care guys. You bet. See you guys. Yep. Bye bye. Geez, I’m glad.
01:19:31:06 –> 01:20:32:25
Well, I’m glad I haven’t got too far down the road. Devin, your, your gun’s been used maybe scarred that that one we’re talking about could have been. Well it’s, it’s not the, I have a range rod that I use just for that at the range shooting a lot. And you can see your scratches. You count that rod, you can, whether it’s a ram rod or range rod, I’ve thought about everything they’re about because it’s a bigger as far as Rod not spinning 1400 different. It’s like when you clean, but what I, I like to do what I’m doing in the field. Well yeah, I I mean my range rod is less scarring. Well in the field I’m gonna be scarring the crap outta stuff. Well but it’s also like if you’re down trying to work, if you’re trying to work up your load at the range and find the recipe and you want That’s right. You want that there want knowing when you go to field, there’s gonna be a wider variation then. ’cause you’re using a stick shot. One’s cherry after that. It’s a freaking hoping a bread. It’s, let me ask you something and it’s a free for all adrenaline. It’s a free for just powder pound and and sometimes you get two thirds of the powder in there. That’s right. That’s right. I’ve done that before. I’ve been a few grain shy on a follow up shot. Hundred percent percent.
01:20:33:15 –> 01:21:44:20
But but shot one should be perfect. That’s right. Yes. Should be loaded with a range rod. Exactly. Let me ask you guys something that a lot of people don’t think about. Do you buy the proper loading tip for your no projector? Yes, I do. I do sometimes because that plastic tip’s freaking that long. Yeah. And so you need that even even a shorter like 50 cal you can buy certain Yeah. Go around damaging the tip, but eventually it has to make contact on versus a 45 grain for five caliber bullet. Sorry, versus a 50. Your, your BCO jive is gonna be different. It Correct. It’s gonna wanna sit down on there. But a lot of those ram rods, they don’t have that. I it’s a one size fits all. It’s it’s grabbing it and it’s just, they go with the one, the, the one thing I take solace in is solace. Wow. Well, oh, Mark Thompson used to shoot thousands and he would get the seconds. Oh yeah. He would break, he would break off the tips of aons and just say shoot and you could shoot a thousand yards. And so then I’m like, you know, so dealing with the center fire with, so yes, I’ve jed up up some tips and I’m like, you know what, it’ll still kill. You know what I mean? And luckily most of the ti stuff we’re talking about these guns too. We’re still talking most of the time.
01:21:45:00 –> 01:22:53:16
Honestly, one to 200 yard kill shots with muzzles. Yes. It’s what we’re usually So if you tip your gun upside down and a little tip falls out the end of it, just don’t just go kill the arm. Pretend it, it’ll be hard. Didn’t happen and Right Devin, it’ll, but Devin, Devon’s losing his mind here because he is a perfectionist. It’s good though. So the the, the advice I’m giving you is not Devon approved. Come on. I don’t know about a perfectionist. Oh, come on Devin. Well, meticulous Is that, are is that a different, when I measure my grain weights perfect. Well that’s different. Mine are too. Is perfect is mine. Mine is too. That is that, that’s unwavering. But but some of these other things we’ve talked about today. But if we took a CCI and a federal and mixed ’em, would that bother you? It would drive me nuts. Listen, I’ve had the same three stacks of primers for 10 years. Okay. So don’t take offense when I say you’re particular. Yeah. Maybe even slightly a perfectionist. Fine. That’s good. Hey, if it isn’t, hey we’re still, you’re still bringing up this, this open site kill that he made two years ago. So fight that makes a difference. It does make a difference. I were dial that shook up. I don’t know man. That one got me ’cause I went back and forth in my mind like, oh, it’s over. Morning’s over. Didn’t work out.
01:22:53:22 –> 01:24:00:23
Yeah. And then all of a sudden he’s outside. He stopped one bush. I’m looking, I’m like, this is happening. And then he, you know, back and forth, back and forth and finally I’m like, this is happening. I don’t know. It worked, but it did work. And he’s on your wall. It’s on your wall. That’s all that matters. And and the legend grow of the shot. The shot heard around the world. The Devon, the legend grows. No, hey it’s cat. It true. Heck dead. An open sight shot. It’s true. I don’t care how you ski that cat. It’s on video. It’s no joke. That was the only situation that I think that would’ve worked if he was in taller sage or even had gray sage. Any kind of Yeah. Blending. I shot a deer. It wouldn’t have happened. I wouldn’t have shot muzzled or deer in 2019. It was 125 yards. It felt like it was 500. Well opens. Yeah, it does. Why, why? When I shot an elk with a one power at one 50, same thing. I was like this, I’m just going to, I’m hoping it’s 150. I’m gonna let it rip obviously. Let’s say a little prayer. Yeah. We’re gonna see how this goes. When I pulled the trigger, I wasn’t that confident. Yeah. So anyway, I’m just saying when you made that shot double basically what I’ve made, I was impressed. Not gonna lie. Yeah. Thanks.
01:24:00:25 –> 01:25:04:11
Yeah, it was, it was a perfect situation. That’s all it was. But very informative. Lots of info there. And like I said, for all of you guys listening, you go BPI outdoors or CVA, you can get there either way, but how about call Epic when you go to buy? Oh yeah. We’ve got every model pretty well that they have. And we sell smoking deals. Yeah, smoking deals, deals ready to get ’em out. We’ve even got very flame adapt kits in in stock. Yeah, we do. Took us a minute to get ’em. We got ’em. It’s awesome. Anyway, but anyway, we’ll be using ’em. Well we appreciate them guys. They’re good deeds. Yeah, good. I could tell they got a lot of, you could learn a lot from Tony. It’s sitting with him in the range for a couple hours. I could see, ah, I, it might change my whole, I don’t wanna, I don’t know if I want it. All I need to know is the best shivs possible. Gimme the gun, get the gun, the bullet. And then I want the, the primer. I want the, and the powder concoction. The least janky system possible. Guys, they grew up shooting rocks. What else would we, we did. It was, no, we’ve come light years. It was no joke. I’m telling you that Pitted barrel, you asked, it was a, it was a, it was a night MK 85 with a percussion cap. Yeah.
01:25:04:18 –> 01:26:11:24
So it was the, it was the one of the first. Right. And so our serial number such as such hawk, woodstock hawk and percussion. Well, and then prior to that, that was, that’s, that was before the latter days that were improved upon. Still remember Aaron, my brother’s first buck. It was a nice four point. It was in that general season. Muzz loader early November. Rutten dose, 45 caliber Hawking. I don’t remember how far he shot. It was a hundred. A hundred double F powder. Yeah. He shot it, killed it. We retrieved the, the round ball out of the buck and it had a perfect circle with the ramrod down there. Perfect circle just embedded on there. As he was shoving that down, we retrieved it outta the deer. You could reshoot the bullet, the ball. We took tire weights and melted the tire weights down. Like, like you think we, how precise is that? Do you think we would be good at making muzz or bullets and making ’em uniform and perfect like Devin would want? Yeah. You put ’em in those trip. Those things Trip. Yes. Trip. Those tools that Yes. Poured it in there. There hot milk. And then we find that lead kills people. I was gonna say that animals environment and my, my hands were full of lead. Yeah. And then you probably ate a sandwich right after that.
01:26:11:24 –> 01:27:15:17
Oh, I ha, while I was making those bullets, I had lead, lead, air, gun pellets in my mouth. Yeah. Sucking on your pellet. ’cause you never know when you’re gonna see a bird. That’s the right carried mine when we were hunting birds in your mouth, your pellets 17 in your mouth sucking. I never put pellets in my mouth. Hundred percent. We did a hundred, we did that girl. Hundred percent. You can’t reach in your pocket. We use copper bbs, man. Well, we did that too. I did that too. But pellets were more active, but pellets hit harder than a Bebe. We all knew that they were flared at the base. So you, you felt like it would fit to the lands and grooves. That was more of a blow gun hunter, myself. A what? A youth blow gun myself. Oh yeah. Well, we’ve heard about the, the high fence situation you had in a garage. Was that a hummingbird? I don’t know. I don’t remember what Kes said, but I don’t believe a lot of things said so. All right, so anyway, I, I’m done. Let’s go to lunch. Let’s, yeah, I agree. I’m, let’s eat. Let’s face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags you need to apply in multiple states. That’s where an Epic Outdoors membership can help.
01:27:15:21 –> 01:28:43:29
For only 150 bucks a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic approved outfitters and members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines. Applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you’re applying for the best areas. No more applying for a unit where there has been a die off and no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home. Go [email protected] or call us today at (435) 263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. QU is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new guide Pro series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women’s camo [email protected]. That’s ku iu.com. Kenna Trek makes boots for every hunt. Whether you’re hunting sheep in the high rocky altitudes or low crawling sagebrush for those desert muley, Kenna Trek has you covered, check out their world class Mountain Streamline and their brand new Bridger High [email protected]. K-E-N-E-T-R-E k.com. Applying for tags in multiple Western states can be time consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again. The Epic Outdoors license application service is exactly what you need. It’s like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes.
01:28:44:13 –> 01:30:11:21
Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your TAG applications. You’ll never miss a deadline. You’ll never apply for the wrong unit and you’ll never apply for a unit that’s having a die off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors license app 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. If you want a bow from the best manufacturer there is. Look at Hoy Archery. With the addition of the new carbon RX eight and the aluminum Alpha x Hoyt has reimagined what a bow can do. Hoyt bows where 70 pounds feels like 60. Call us to order yours today. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7 With fierce rifles. Every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry, and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next fierce rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official fierce Rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss Vortex, Leopold Cawa, SIG Sour and More. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to epic optics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7.
01:30:11:26 –> 01:31:37:23
If you are looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the west. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you’ve always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to st james sporting properties.com or give them a call at (855) 711-7577 to learn more. Red Rock Precision rifles are at the pinnacle of custom rifles. They make no compromises in terms of quality, accuracy, and reliability. They will build the perfect rifle for you in both feel and performance. Epic Outdoors is an official Red Rock dealer. Call us to talk over your options for your next Red Rock rifle or go to Red Rock precision.com to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you’re a long range shooter, dialing in that perfect shot, or an archery hunter in need of an easy to carry optic without sacrificing quality. Vortex has you covered. Head over to epic optics.com or call us to learn more about your vortex options today at 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. From top of the line hunting blind to game calls that can’t be beat. GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need for all of their products. Head over to gsm outdoors.com to learn more.
01:31:38:07 –> 01:33:07:10
Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable, long range shooting. If you don’t want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range System is for you. Simply Range. Place the hash mark for that distance on the animal and pull the trigger. They make top quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to a thousand yards. Visit Thompson long range.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience the crew at Epic Outdoors Trust stealth Cam Trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. Stealth Cam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating. Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360 degree [email protected]. Epic Outdoors is an official stealth cam dealer. Call us to order yours today at (435) 263-0777. Phone scope. Change the game with their Digi Scoping Innovations and have remained the top phone to optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro phone scope [email protected]. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P e.com. Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it’s a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your outdoor edge knife. Head over to outdoor edge.com and check out their brand new razor VX knife today. Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner.
01:33:07:15 –> 01:33:59:07
When it comes to top tier quality. Zeis has been a leader in the industry for generations. If you are in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website, epic optics.com or call us at (435) 263-0777 to find out which Zeiss Optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA muzzle loader dealer. If you are in the market for a new muzzle loader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA muzzle loaders are the go-to muzzle loader. For Epic Outdoors and Crew, we’ve definitely got our favorite setups for Western big game hunting in stock. Call us today at (435) 263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.
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